REPLAY Patrick Duffy - The Magic of Sourdough Baking

Jim Serpico speaks with Patrick Duffy about playing Bobby Ewing on the hit series Dallas, baking sourdough, and the origin of Duffy's Dough, a company specializing in dehydrated sourdough starter which he co-founded with his wife Linda, his 100-year-old starter from Alaska, blowing out his vocal cords, Buddhism, and more.

To learn more about Duffy's Dough, visit Duffy's Dough.

Follow Jim Serpico on Instagram at @jimserpico and @sidehustlebread.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jim-serpico-bread-for-the-people-sourdough-pizza-life--5704379/support.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
The following episode of Bread for thePeople is brought to you by Side Hustle
Bread, Long Island's handcrafted, artisanalbread company. Side Hustle Bread is a
family run virtual bakery that's bringing theneighborhood feel back to Long Island, one
loaf at a time. Head onover to side Hustle Bread dot com for
more information, upcoming appearances and merchandise. My name's Jim Serpico. And this

(00:22):
should I start with? My name? What should I start with? This
is Bread for the People? Doyou like it like this? Welcome to
Bread? What do you like itlike this? Welcome Retty, Welcome to
Bread for the People. Mind isthere a script? Welcome to Bread for

(00:49):
the People. I'm Jim Serpico,my guest today, is an American actor
and a director. You may knowhim from the ABC sitcom Step by Step.
You may know him from the I'metimesoap opera Dallas, where he plays
the nicer brother and the youngest brother, Bob Ewing. What you may not
know some of you may know,but I didn't know. He's also a

(01:11):
sour dough baker. He's also theco founder of Duffy Sour Dough. Along
with his wife, Linda. I'malways happy to have a fellow baker on
the podcast. Patrick, thank youso much for joining me. Oh my
gosh, it's so nice to behere. And you put the fear in
me. Now you're a baker too, So you're gonna vet everything I say.
Oh dear, I'm gonna vet everythingyou say. On your website.

(01:34):
You have a quote. I'd liketo start with the quote. Okay,
maybe it's Linda's quote. All ofthis progress continually returns to the simple reality
of coming downstairs in the morning andbeing welcomed by that amazing odor of the
starter brimming with new life. Therest of the procedure is my meditation of
gratitude. When I mixed the newbatch of batter, need the dough and
see it rise and blossom. That'smine. Now I can rote your quote,

(02:00):
yep, I can relate to thatquote. I would like to hear
from you where that really comes fromand how you connected to all of this.
Well, it's a it's a longprocess. If you know, if
I get too deep in the woods, you can just cut me off.
But this this sour dough starter,according to the history that's in our website.

(02:23):
You know, has been in thefamily for over seventy years. Was
given to my mother in Alaska bya very old woman who claimed it came
with the gold miners in the AlaskaGold Rush. We couldn't obviously verified that,
but I at least know that it'sseventy three years old now, and
I didn't have any interest in it, to be quite honest, All the

(02:44):
time I was growing up, mymother baked. My mother would have sour
dough pancakes in the morning. Shedidn't go into the cinnamon rolls and fruit
tarts, et cetera. It wasit was subsistence baking. And then my
sister, when she graduated from highschool, took a starter off of mom.
Starter and it still did not interestme until I graduated from college and
my sister would bake for me.I was a starving student and she would

(03:07):
bake roles and things like that forme. And after I graduate, did
you guys go sorry, did youguys go to the same college, because
I think you went to the Universityof Washington. We both graduated from the
University of Washington and she and shewas in the oceanography department, so they
would go out and get fish andshrimp and all the other kind of stuff.
So I was fed well with seafoodand sourdille. But when I graduated

(03:30):
from college and went off on myown, it was the time that I
really said, well, I've gotto do something for myself. And I
had no money, and baking wasa money saving operation for me. My
sister then pulled the starter off ofhers and I kept that starter and I
would sporadically do it. But whatthe long story hopefully culminating now is I

(03:54):
wasn't prepared for the effect of theprocess when you bake. I was a
moderately successful cooker, and in otherwords, and I understood the joy of
cooking, but I was always cookingwith a glass of wine in my hand,
so I wasn't sure where the joycame from. But when you're baking,
when you start literally from what lookslike a dormant puddle of gou and

(04:16):
you you know, you follow theinstructions which my sister gave me. I've
always kept a pure starter off ofthe batch, and then I would take
that leftover and I would add theingredients whatever they happened to be, and
it was it was rudimentary. Itwas the tiny bit of salt, sugar,
flour, stir it up. Everyonce in a while, I would
put in my batch commercial yeast justbecause it's speeded up the process, and

(04:41):
I would make dinner rolls, andI would survive on those dinner rolls.
But it was the process. Onceyou start mixing it and the goo becomes
a solid, play like mixture,and you have dump it on the kneading
board and then everything changes. Kneadingbread is every once in a while,
I'll tell somebody you ever see ababy kitten when they're nursing and they just

(05:04):
keep those hands moving back, theirpaws back and forth and back and forth,
And kneading bread is like that.I don't know what it touches in
terms of your internal mechanism, butit's a satisfying moment when things tend to
peripherize and you are just in thatmode of making something living. Yeah,

(05:28):
at the end of it, it'sstill just a cannonball size of wad.
And then you put it in thebowl and you cover it with a towel
and literally within two hours, thetowel rises and it's gigantic, living air
filled, delicious smelling substance and fromthen on, I go crazy because I

(05:49):
got very inventive. I would youroll out small pieces in my hand about
the size of a lemon, andthen take the rolling pin, make them
smooth. And I put fruit inthe middle, and some cinnamon and some
nutmeg and a dollop of jam orwhatever I had, and fold up the
corners, stick them in the oven, based them with a little butter,
and I have fruit tarts. Andwhen I when I had children, I

(06:11):
would cook for them. And nowI have grandchildren, and literally I'm a
hero because I can I can sitwith my grandchildren and show them how to
make something from scratch that lives andbreathes and grows and taste great smells.
And it's an accomplishment that it's it'sephemeral because it's gone and you have to

(06:33):
do it again. It's not likemaking a sculpture or something. It is
so I can become very metaphysical aboutthe whole thing, or I can become
exactly you know, just get thejob done and go right right right.
When you have those moments in thekitchen by yourself or when Linda's there with
me, it's a it's a specialtime of bonding and we do this so

(06:57):
that families can do this, sothat you know it can you know,
people used to sit around and watchDallas thirty five years ago and they would
watch it as a family and theywould talk about it, would converse,
and they would go on and itwould become part of their family culture.
And I think that sort of thinghas has gone or diminished. And if
we can get people in the kitchenhaving fun baking, you know, the

(07:18):
kids can do what they can do, the parents can do what they can
do, and everybody just kids itdone and it's another of those moments where
a family can be a family.So that's how I started this. I'm
a television producer for thirty years,and I would bake on the weekends with
my family. We would make pasta. We took a cooking class in Florence,

(07:41):
and then we started making bread,yeast breads at first, and then
I was gifted a sour dough andoh boy, I've been baking every day
for three years. Oh well,we do farmers markets. I bake in
bulk now, okay, but youknow, so I I interviewed Kelly Carlin,

(08:01):
who's George Carlin's daughter. A coupleof weeks ago, and she's a
public speaker and a life coach,and she's a Buddhist, so I'm aware.
And she pointed out to me,this is your meditation, Jim,
because I was talking about how Ilove the repetition and even if it's you
know, I had to scale downthe varieties I was making because it was

(08:24):
getting unwieldly. So I really haveperfected for me. I'm sure it could
be better, but you know,I've been doing the same breads over and
over and I do love the processand I love how without trying hard but
just spending the time, something magicalhas happened that though, even though it's

(08:46):
higher, hydration has become easier forme to work with. And I do
wonder from your perspective, is theresome relation to Buddhism and meditation with the
process of bread making. Well,you know, I've been a Buddhist now
for over fifty years, and myform of Buddhism is morning and evening.

(09:11):
I chant verbally out loud, andfor the past twenty five years, I
would take an hour every morning,no matter what my schedule was. If
I had a call that was fiveo'clock in the morning, on a set,
you know, for makeup, Iwould back up the clock because I
got more out of the time spentchanting than I would have that same time
as an additional forty minutes to anhour of sleep. So I learned that

(09:33):
early on. So there is acorrelation to not just the repetitive nature of
kneeding the bread, but when Ichant, you know, you can chant
in a very meditative state, oryou can chant with your monkey brain just
climbing around the jungle in your ears. It can be either way, but
the chanting has the same effect,and that effect carries me through the day.

(09:58):
And I find the same sense withdoing bread. I can be in
the zone as they say, youknow when you're doing the bread, and
really get into it, and likeI say, the periphery just disappears.
Or I can do it while I'mwatching the news. But but to me,
the analogy is the same result asthere, the same bread rises,

(10:20):
the same odors come out, thesame texture in your mouth is there when
when the job is done, whetheryou've been in a deep meditative state or
whether you've been completely aware of yoursurroundings. And that to me is the
magic of the process of baking.It's the internal needs, by its repetitive

(10:43):
nature. By it, and Ialso, you know, it's a very
strange thing. I have two children, of course, who are now adults,
they're almost fifty years old. Butin the course of raising children,
you you get a tactical sense withyour hands. You know, you test
a bottle, you know, onthe on the nape of your wrist,
you know, to see the temperature. I judge how much kneading and flour

(11:05):
I do when I'm meeting the breadby feeling the moisture temperature content right on
the nape of my wrist, andit and it inevitably reminds me of my
children as babies. So I'm immediatelymy brain is taken back fifty years at
forty eight forty you know that manyyears ago, just by that moisture content

(11:28):
on my wrist. And when Iwhen I feel that at the right content,
whatever that word might be, Iknow that it's it's ready to put
in the bowl and let it rise. And if it's too wet, I
don't like it. If it's toodry, I don't like it. And
again, like you, over repetitivenature, I've been doing this now for
twenty years, you know, bakingmy breads, and I'm like programmed like

(11:50):
a computer in my hands and mynose. I can tell you literally that
quote. When I come down inthe morning, I smell that yeast,
and I can tell that. Icall it the babies in the oven,
which is probably not very PC,but I put it when when the starter
is taking its eight to ten hours, I stick it in the microwave because

(12:13):
it's a consolidated same temperature environment.Cover it with a towel, and I
can't smell it. I put itin, But when I come down in
the morning, it's permeated the entirekitchen, and I just know how that
baby's in the babies in the ovenand it's ready to go. And I
pull it out, and sure enoughit's frothy and bubbly, and you realize,
that's same yeast flew through the airin Alaska hundred years ago, and

(12:37):
here it's czing. Now. Idon't know a ton about Buddhism, but
I do know quite a bit aboutmindfulness. I don't know if you do,
but everything I hear when people talkabout certain things related to Buddhism reminds
me very much of mindfulnesss of likeyou were just talking about your mind,

(13:03):
monkey mind going in all these differentdirections, or you know, being able
to bake bread while watching the newsor not. But funny enough, I
discovered you when I was baking bread, because the only time I watch warning
shows is if I'm baking bread.Otherwise I'd be in my office, you
know, worried about I don't know, some production or pitch or nerve racking

(13:26):
whatever. So even though my mindwas distracted on I think it was the
Today Show that you guys were on, you know, I was doing something
I wouldn't normally be doing. Right, But that being said, I am
curious about the relationship to Buddhism andmindfulness. If you know anything about this,
well, I'm certainly not an experton mindfulness, and I wouldn't say

(13:48):
I'm an expert on Buddhism. Iam a practitioner of Buddhism. But I
have over the years, you know, I've had discussions with almost every religious
denomination that you can imagine, andvery productive, nice, you know,
sharing of information type of conversations,not heated religious debates. And I have
the and this hopefully doesn't sound likea set up question. But there is

(14:11):
a similarity between what I do withmy baking and specifically a free, un
manufactured sour dough yeast. That andthe fact that that yeast has been in
all the intents and purposes around foreversince the world began, I mean there

(14:33):
it is. So yeast has acommon purpose, and then it can be
used for so many different things,from making wine to what we do to
you know, yeast cultures that youknow can cure infections. And now the
study you might be aware of thisis that they think that natural yeast,

(14:54):
in terms of breads, breaks downthe gluten that makes gluten and tolerant people
able to digest sour dough breads.So it has this magical content. Well,
so do most philosophies. At theirpore. They become anthropomorphized, you
know, when people start to usethem as philosophies and religions, et cetera.

(15:16):
But at the core is basically thiscompassionate denomination that nature has, and
we're a part of nature. Yeastcell is part of nature and it has
a pure sort of purpose, whichis what we get to experience when we
bake and we see it rise andit grows and it becomes dormant again,

(15:39):
and we see this ongoing manifest nonmanifest process going with the yeast. I
think a lot of philosophies if theywould forget the human traits that have been
imbued in them and went truly tothe basics, I think they would find
such a commonality that they can keeptheir personalities. You know, people dress

(16:02):
in different styles. That's perfectly fine. But I think you know, the
recognition that all things you know havethat boastun particle if you want to get
into you know, physics, thatit is the same. It is the
foundation on which the sign behind yourhead right now is, or the wine
barrels over your right shoulder is.That there's a commonality when you take it

(16:22):
all down, and it is thatthat life is the same. All life
is the same at its basic rhythm. And so Buddhism says that I have
very good Catholic Buddhist friends, Ihave very good Jewish Buddhist friends who have
found that commonality and say, oh, I can practice this form of Buddhism

(16:44):
and it doesn't impede, you know, my mental dedication to my own philosophy
and religion. So that's you know, that's to me the commonality that that
also the yeast, especially sour doughyeast, not not Fleischmann's and no offense
Flashman's, but they were the firstones to commercially make the east. But
you know it's not a commercial aspectof what we do. You and I

(17:07):
and the people that you know bakewith their hands for themselves, you know,
don't take it out of the plasticwhatever, you know, really make
it grow and live and breathe andfeed you. That's its purpose, you
know, it's to sustain it asas our philosophies are. So I don't
know mindfulness as a as a asa practice, but the little bit that

(17:29):
I do know there is there is, as you say, a great commonality.
Sure, so what is your Tellme a little bit more about Duffy's
Sour though as a business, Whatis the mission and what are you guys
doing? Well, this is thething, you know, I'm a great
idea person. And then I haveanother glass of wine and sleep. So

(17:51):
at one point about a year ago, a year and a half ago,
I had baked some stuff and Lindawas and I were having I think it
was the morning sour dough pancakes,and I offhandedly said, you know,
maybe I should just do this asa profession and sell some of this.
And she was said that it's agreat idea. Well, I forgot about
it. It never left her mind. The next thing I know, she's

(18:15):
on the computer. She's looking upbusiness things, what it takes. She
had a friend here in Colorado,which is where I'm talking to you from,
who is an entrepreneur and teaches aclass at the college. And we
had dinner at his house and Ibrought the sour dough rolls for dinner,
and everybody oodnad and they loved thestory. So Linda and Steve the entrepreneur

(18:38):
put their heads together and Duffy's doughwas the subject matter for a semester of
college course here in Colorado. Hedivided his classes into pods of three to
four people. They took our idea. We picked the idea to them,
They took it and for a semesterthey built a business. And then they

(19:00):
pitched it to Allah Shark Tank,and we liked one because it was one
of two that took the sour doughand dehydrated it, which we thought,
that's the absolute key to you know, commercially sending it any place, because
as you know, you can putit in a jar and it'll blow the
top off that jar if it expandsat the right and the wrong circumstances.

(19:22):
So shipping was a problem, andthis person solved that for us. So
Linda then took that and we wereon the road in the UK for seven
months doing a play. Every singleday she was on the computer constructing this
business, getting it from the wowthe design of the box, to the
logos, to the trademarks, tofinding lawyers and accountants, and we got

(19:45):
back to Colorado and we started thisbusiness in September and the group So that's
what you're doing. You're special you'respecializing in dehydrated Salado Storner exactly, and
in its dehydrated the starter can justlie dormant in a jar for years on
end. It is it's absolutely it'sbasically what Fleischmann's has done in making their

(20:10):
their yeast that you can buy andit can be in your pantry for ten
years. You open it up,put in a little water, it'll blossom
just I love the blossoming of yeastanyway, commercial yeast, and then you
bake with it. So dehydrated Duffydough starter is a pure starter from Alaska
without any input other than flour,sugar and water in a dehydrated form,

(20:32):
and then you take it and makewhatever you want out of it. And
that was all Linda's basically inspiration.I'm good at carrying things and pointing,
and she's the person who carries outand points me in the right direction.
That's great, man. Now yougrew up in Montana. That's right.
Yeah, little town in Montana.Six people? How many? Six hundred?

(20:56):
Wow? Yeah? Are you whywatching Yellowstone? I've seen several of
Yellowstone. I watch until it makesme cry because I'm not on it,
and then I stopped. It's Imean, I've always fantasized about Montana,
but that that show. It's sopretty. It's so pretty. How they
shoot it in what they do,it's wonderful and it does. It does

(21:18):
depict Montana in a beautiful light.And it's what I grew up knowing about
it, going back to it foryears. But when I was starting to
work consistently, getting to Montana inthe seventies was a full day, if
not day and a half process ofyou had to fly from La to I
think Salt Lake, and then SaltLake to Missoula, and then Missoula.

(21:41):
You'd get in the car wherever yourplace was and dry for two hours.
It was you know, you can'tjust commute, basically, So I made
Oregon my Montana, and I gota ranch in Oregon in nineteen ninety that
I've had now for years. Didyou go to high school in Montana,
in the small town. No,I did not. I went to I
left there when I was twelve yearsold. That's when my dad and the

(22:03):
family moved to Seattle. My sisterwas so my sisters to this day maintains
friendships that she developed when she wasin high school there when I was you
know, I'm almost four years youngerthan my sister, and I was not
in that place in school where youdeveloped that kind of friendships. So I
didn't go back to Montana on mytimes off very much because I had no

(22:26):
people in common. Basically, myfriends are all from the Northwest. Got
it. Now, your sister wasan international champion swimmer. Correct, Yes,
she was an international skin diving champion. She was a competition swimmer in
high school, but she became shefell in love with underwater. She was

(22:48):
going to get her PhD in oceanography, and she got her masters, but
she didn't make it do her PhDbecause she took a karate class, and
in the karate class where a bunchof police officers taking class, and she
switched. She like a roundhouse fora train. She went into that class,
did a one eighty, and cameout wanting to be a policewoman.

(23:11):
And she retired from the Seattle CityPolice Department about ten twelve years ago as
a lieutenant. Her and married alieutenant. So they live now as far
away from the Northwest as you canget in Palm Desert, California. Is
she still baking? Oh? Yes, she's a crazy baker. And to
be quite honest, there were acouple of times in my college career where

(23:34):
I killed my sour dough starter.You know, I just totally it was
It was manslaughter, basically. Andthe good thing about it is I went
back to my sister. She justpulled a starter off of hers and I
was back at it again. So, you know, and with the dehydrated
you don't have to worry about it. If I killed my salar dough starter,

(23:56):
I'd be finished I always panic aboutthat. Well I do too,
that's right, you know, inour in our kit and in our you
know, our book that we sendwith the recipes and the instructions and everything.
The biggest letter head and everything iswhen you get your starter activated,
save one cup, put it inthe refridge, to put it back in
the jar before you do anything,because the minute you've actually killed the essence

(24:19):
of your of your starter, ifyou even add something other than sugar,
flour and water. If you I'veI've We've gone with got email saying oh
will it still be the original starterand keep forever because I put an egg
in it? No, I don'tthink so. I don't think so.
Somewhere and I maybe it was Wikipediaor something, they talk about you going

(24:44):
to college and blowing out your vocalcourts, capturing them. Is that?
Well, what's the story behind this? How did that? You're a you're
a eighteen to twenty year old irishmanwho thinks he's bulletproof and here in a
special acting program and everything you doseems to be great. So you know,
I was not typical. I don'twant to say every college student is

(25:08):
like that, but I I dranktoo much lived too hard and overworked my
vocal cords to the point that Ikept losing my upper register. And my
solution was going a room and screamand yell until your voice comes back.
And it worked for a while,and quite literally one day and I sounded

(25:29):
like my god, Neville Brand andyou know who else you can imagine with
that horrible voice. And I hada coughing fit during rehearsal, and they
ruptured and blood just I coughed upblood, went to the doctor and they
had hemorrhage to the extent that theblood vessels didn't coagulate and heal up,

(25:52):
so the vocal cords just kept fillingup with blood until they got too much
blood and the coughing and ruptured him. And the doctor said, well,
we can operate and fix them.Then there'll be no guarantee what your voice
will sound like with scar tissue,or you can go on vocal rest and
see if they can heal themselves.So for four months I did not say

(26:14):
a single word. I didn't hum, I didn't make them. I made
two mistakes. Both of them wereswear words that happened to come out as
an knee jerk reaction. When Idid something stupid, but literally, for
four months, I pretended I wasincapable of speaking. I would use notepads.
My sister would call me. Wehad a whistling format that you two

(26:36):
whistles, yes, one whistle,no, et cetera, and she would
check in on me. I wouldgo to the grocery store with a notepad
and if questions were asked, Iwould write, and people thought I was
a mute anybody who didn't know me. And then finally, I finally was
given permission by my vocal doctor tostart briefly talking, but the rules where
I couldn't talk in a room withmore than two people. I couldn't talk

(27:00):
when the phone, when the televisionor the radio or anything was on.
I was not allowed to talk inan automobile or a moving object, and
they were all things. Because Ihad to start literally from scratch again with
baby vocal cords, and I endedup getting back on stage. I recovered
to the extent that I started mytheatrical career, although two years late because
I had to drop out of theprogram I was in. I started again.

(27:23):
I did theater for a while,went to New York. I did
a couple of off off Broadway showcases, finally got to LA and landed Man
from Atlantis, and from nineteen seventysix on I never stopped working. Wow,
now was this when you started studyinghow to become a mime? Well,
mine was part of our schooling inthe program. And what that did

(27:47):
for me was when I was unableto act on stage, I could teach
movement classes to small groups of students, et cetera. So I was able
to eke out a living doing that. But interesting thing also is at the
same time my vocal chords blew out. I met the woman who became my
wife, who was the person whointroduced me to Buddhism, and when I
told her, you know, I, you know, I'm never going to

(28:08):
act again because this is my problem. She said, oh, that's that's
your problem. You're right. Butbecause it's your problem, you can fix
it. So here's this thing Ido. And she taught me how to
chant, and it was the worstthing I could do for my voice.
I would chant literally for five minutesand my voice would disappear. And she
would say, no, that's likeshe was a ballet dancer. She said,

(28:30):
that's like sore muscles. When youdo ballet, just relax, take
your time, do it again.And literally it was the chanting that exercised
my vocal cords the proper way,because I chanted very softly to the beginning
and I ended up, you know, on stage grateful. And it was
one of the first big things thatI saw that this practice of Buddhism could

(28:53):
do. It was a repetitive nature. It also had a mystical side,
you know. It was that andthing. If my vocal cords are the
same as everything else, then thenI can direct their process. And that's
what I did. It's amazing,Patrick, thank you so much for joining
me. Give me the proper nameof your company. It's called Duffy's Dough

(29:18):
d U F F y S dO U g H. Then if you
go to Duffy's Dough dot com,it'll take you to the website. There's
you know, all kinds of things, silly stuff that Lynda and I do
because we love it. Awesome,all right, Patrick, thank you so
much. It's nice getting to knowyou. I'm really intrigued by your journey.
And happy holidays and have a greattime. I hope you spend it

(29:38):
with the family. Men I'm gonnado that, and we're gonna try and
see if we can invent eggnog sourdough pancakes, and then you should dehydrate
them. We chip them around thecountry. Alright, Patricks, Okay,
take care of Jim. Thanks Theyepisode of Bread for the People was brought

(30:02):
to you by Side Hustle Bread,Long Island's handcrafted, artisanal bread company.
Side Hustle Bread is a family runbusiness that's bringing the neighborhood field back to
Long Island, one loaf at atime. If you like what you're hearing,
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Reviewing and rating is the most effectiveway to help us grow our audience.

(30:22):
This episode was produced by Milestone TVand Film. I'm your host,
Jim Serpico. Less it be thebread, everyone,