February 7, 2023 • 27 mins
Axel started Wizest by bringing together the co-founding team around a clear vision and mission: building a solution that makes investing more approachable, collaborative and transparent. After an early career in France and Spain as an industrial engineer working mainly in the automotive industry, Axel came to the US to get his MBA from MIT. He then started his finance journey, serving as the head of strategy and transformation for two banks, leading areas like strategic and commercial planning, product development, marketing, operational efficiency, compliance, digital transformation and M&A. During this time managed an online bank, VirtualBank, and, before starting Wizest, launched another online bank one from scratch, TotalDirectBank.
if you enjoyed the show be sure to check out my info:
https://app.wingcard.io/ROB3SA64
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Bolton (00:01):
Welcome to the Josh Bolton show. interesting and
inspiring conversations. And nowyour host, Josh Bolton. Welcome.
Welcome, everybody. Today wehave asked the T bone. This is
awesome, dude, he was justgiving me a little bit of
backstory of what he does. Andman, we are in for a good ride
(00:23):
today. action packed andeverything. Axl, take it away.
Unknown (00:28):
Now, thank you for hosting me today. And so it's,
it's pleasure to speak with withyou and your audience. And yes,
happy to, to chit chat and havea conversation about what I do
who I am. And we can go fromthere.
Josh Bolton (00:42):
Yes, we will. So tell us a little about yourself
and your backstory kind ofthing.
Unknown (00:47):
Yeah. Perfect. So yes, like, I am speaking to you like
today from like, Cleveland,Ohio. But you hear my accent is
not a Midwest accent. I'm fromfrom France originally. And
like, even if we're going to endup speaking about investing and
finance and technology. I am bytraining a mechanical engineer.
So nothing to do with, with withwith finance. But that's what
(01:09):
leads to me to finance today.
Because like, when I startedworking in the, in the car
industry, knowing nothing aboutfinance, I wanted to start
investing for myself to buildwealth for my future to be able
to be to buy a house on point orto still start thinking about my
retirement. But like when I wasgoing to try to find a solution,
like I tried, I tried first withlike, tools like Robin Hood, or
(01:31):
ETrade. But like, when I wasgoing through there, it's when
it's easy to access. It'sfantastic. But then it's like,
what do I do? What do I buy?
What do I sell? I'm gonna screwup. And right. So I was like,
let's go back to my bank to asklike if they can help me. And
when I went there, they told methat yeah, we can help you. But
do you already have like 100 or200k? To qualify for to get a
(01:54):
financial advisor? No, not yet.
Okay, so come back in fiveyears. And so and so then I went
to the only solution that wasleft, which is like, the new
tools that are appearing nowlike Robo tools like acorns,
Betterment Wealthfront, which isgreat. If you want to put your
money in a place, and thenforget about it, because it's a
(02:15):
it's almost like a black box,you have to trust the algorithm,
you don't know what is happeninginside. And you have a limited
choice. And so it's verydifficult to control what is
what is happening. So can befrustrating for a lot of people.
And so that's why like, Idecided, you know why, at some
point, I need to find a way tosolve to solve that. And I think
that's the reason why like,after a few years working in the
(02:37):
car industry, I switched tobanking, I went to the EU, I
came to the US did my MBA atMIT, and switched to the finance
to banking, working in a fewbanks for a few years, being the
head of strategy for for theseinstitutions. And even like,
start from scratch a littleonline bank, just before doing
Weiser. So and I think thatbeing able to build a little bit
(03:02):
from scratch, gave me theconfidence that I was able to
build a solution to address likethe investing issue that we
mentioned before. And that'swhere I am now now. It's like
launching what my my startuplike my Fintech startup, named
wisest, which is about like,making investing approachable
and easy for everyone. And sothat's the, that's, that's my
(03:24):
journey so far.
Josh Bolton (03:28):
That's wonderful.
Especially, like you touched onthe engineering. The everyone
I've talked to you on here who'sdone something very similar, and
it's very successful. They allstarted off in engineers, and
they're like, wait a minute, I'man engineer, I could just
reverse engineer that, and makeit work. And then, listening, I
was like, I was just chucklingin my head. I'm like, yep, if
(03:48):
anyone can figure out anengineer will figure it out.
Unknown (03:54):
No, it's, it's true that the idea that it's like
that, it's like this mind oflike being curious to be able to
find solutions to problems. And,and yes, like, I found my
problem was like, trying to helppeople investing. And that's
what I'm trying to do now.
Josh Bolton (04:09):
That's wonderful.
So what are some of thestrategies that you learned in
this, like, up to the point ofyour FinTech for investing to
make it more approachable forthe Average Joe?
Unknown (04:20):
Yeah, so So what I what I saw is like, first that tech,
in the last few years, likethere was a lot of evolution in
the market, and a lot of newtools and a lot of in the use of
technology. That is fantastic.
Because like 20 years ago, RobinHood was not existing. And so it
was very limited to be able todo to access and can do trading.
And everyone can do it, which isfantastic. But like, again, like
(04:44):
we give everyone a car with thenot a lot of people knows how to
drive. And so now it's like nowthat we have access to it, how
we can make it easy for peopleto operate, not just to have
access to it. So that's, that's,that's what that's what I'm
trying to do is, let's, let'ssolve the second issue and issue
(05:04):
after being able to access it ina more convenient way. Now let's
learn how we can help to operateand to do it and to invest
really. And so that's why Ithink that that the, the robo
aspect is is great for like somesome some aspects and, and using
the machine and, and algorithmthat are like, very right right
(05:25):
about Ravel, but but I thinkthat money is still for most of
people and very emotional. Andso it's an emotional topic. And
so we like to have like, humancontact, to chat about topics to
have confirmations, andvalidations. And so and so
that's why with wisest, webrought back the human into the,
into the, into the into theprocess, and be like and use
(05:50):
that technology to make topackage everything and make it
accessible to everyone.
Josh Bolton (05:59):
So the initial part of my question was, what did you
learn in your journey to forinvesting strategies that led
you to wise us?
Unknown (06:07):
Yeah, yes, thanks.
Sorry about that. I was like,it's all good.
Josh Bolton (06:11):
It's all good.
Unknown (06:13):
So So, so what I learned is like, at first, like,
about investing and investingstrategies, that is, and one of
the reasons why that I am doingthat is like, very limited,
bring me a part of the society,I will say is accessing is
accessing investing. I'm seeingthat like, if you look at the
(06:34):
statistics today, like, Ilearned that like, only 25 to
30% of like investors are women,for example. And so we knew that
there is something here that isnot working. And same same thing
with minorities, like thereisn't there is not a lot of
people that are investing there.
So there is a lot of things thatcan be do that can be done to
help and there is a hugeopportunity. And then in terms
(06:54):
of investing, I saw that alsolike people are like, when they
are not guided, they may havelike the over they may overreact
to what is happening in themarkets and take bad decisions.
And so the idea is to providethem support. So they don't
overreact and and don't take baddecisions. Because if not, you
(07:15):
see the market dropping, oh, I'dhave to sell and you sell low,
and then the market is goingback up and then you buy high
and all bad. So so that's that'swhat that's what also we want to
avoid and try to help people tonavigate through these
uncertainties.
Josh Bolton (07:31):
Should you have different like, investment
strategies like the contrariantrend trading stuff like that?
Unknown (07:37):
Yeah. So what we have in the in the platform and the
way it works, I think it's agood time now to jump into that
is like when people come in,they don't see stocks, ETFs
mutual funds, what they see theysee people and the people that
the like, you see, like when yougo into Instagram, Facebook or
LinkedIn, everybody is used toanalyze people. And these people
(07:58):
that we have in the platform arelike financial experts. So
financial advisors, portfoliomanagers in the real life. And
they are sharing their profilepersonal profile, as well as
some portfolio and strategieswith the users. And then as you
as the users after like somesome questions to help to do
matching process, people can seea list of like, of experts and
(08:22):
say I choose like 123, and buildthe team, almost like you build
your fantasy football team, butyou build your team of experts,
that is going to work for you onyour behalf. And so when you
when you choose a team, and yousay hey, I want like to maybe
have like $10,000, let's say andI want to put like 30% of my
money on Jim, and 30% in Maryand 40% in in Jeffrey, and the
(08:46):
platform wise is gonna is goingto replicate on your behalf the
portfolio of Jim different Mary,and automatically, and then you
as a user will only manage yourteam. So your portfolio is going
to be these three names. And youwill manage that instead of
having to go and manage like themutual fund XYZ that is super
scary and abstract for a noviceinvestor. And yeah, like the
(09:08):
thing that is great also ofhaving this human layer, let's
say is that like, each time Jim,Jeff or Mary, do a change in our
portfolio, they have to explainit and say Why say hey guys that
are following us. Like I'mfollowing my portfolio. This
this week, I want to do thischange because of this and this
reason. And then like the nextweek, if they don't really
(09:29):
change they can say hey, by theway, this week the market
dropped like 5% Don't worry,it's because of this and this
like aspect in the macroeconomy. So so they can explain
and and and make people notoverreact to what is happening
out there. So so this way, theyhelp people to keep I would say
you're calm and consistent withthe plan they had in their mind
(09:51):
about investing.
Josh Bolton (09:54):
Interesting, okay, I like I can get behind that
like we know good strategy.
Let's see Like Jim is more likesills puts on s&p 500. Generally
speaking, that's going to workkind of thing. And Mary is more
like a Trend Trader. Okay,that's cool. Yeah, I would like
that then be like you get ahybrid of everything. But now
this is just me that came up.
(10:16):
And probably a lot of people arethinking about this, how what
would be the expense fee that wewould have to pay you to get to
this isn't a monthly rate, it's,
Unknown (10:23):
yeah, and so it's 1%, we decided, again, to go with
something that is not scary, andeasy for people, which is like,
Let's go like the Netflix model,let's take to access wises, it's
like a 10 or 20 bucks monthlysubscription. And then with
that, there is everything isincluded. So you don't have a
there is no hidden fees oradditional fees. And then you
(10:44):
can access to, to all theJeffries and Mary's and Jones
that are in the platform likesharing their their expertise
and their portfolios. And andthat's it. And so like, so
that's a very, very simplemodel.
Josh Bolton (10:59):
So is it just one flat fee? Or is it like 10
bucks, just like the starterpackage? 20 bucks is like the,
we will fully automateeverything you can think
Unknown (11:08):
so yes, with 10 bucks, you can, you can basically
follow one expert. And with 20bucks, you can follow as many
experts as you want. So you canbasically like split a little
bit of your morning, like, Iwant to follow up for experts
that 25% of my money in 25% ofmy money for different experts.
So you can do that. So we sothat's the basic one is 10. And
then with 20 bucks, you can doyou can do, you can do teams.
(11:32):
Okay,
Josh Bolton (11:33):
so then, my, my next question, from what I've
learned, do I need to be anaccredited investor for this? Or
is this an 18 year old without2200 bucks can do it kind of
thing?
Unknown (11:44):
Exactly. You can do it with like 50 bucks. So there is
no minimum to start using theplatform. The only thing is
like, obviously, to be able tofollows certain portfolios that
are there in the platform, maybewe suggest like, hey, we suggest
for this one a minimum of like$1 or $250 for this one. So
depending on the portfolio,because if you want to have
(12:06):
something that is working from atrading perspective, you need to
have at least five bucks of eachproduct. So the trades can
happen in the in the back end.
And so that's like, why wesuggest minimums, but like it's
only suggested minimum, so youcan you can start with with 10
bucks or 20 bucks if you want.
Josh Bolton (12:24):
And is there an automatic withdrawal? So like
you automatically if I say Iwant you to pull $50 and put it
into my pot. And Omar, will thathappen?
Unknown (12:33):
Yes. So the way it works like when you when you
when you open your account, youwill connect your bank account
in your bank account with withISIS account with because wises
is going to be a brokerageaccount, like like, like your
Robin Hood account, and you willtransfer money from your
checking or savings in the sameway whenever you wish.
Josh Bolton (12:52):
Okay, so I could say within your your app, say,
hey, every week on Friday for mypayday pull $100. And can I also
tell it to automatically investinto my three traitors to the
same time? Yes,
Unknown (13:07):
yeah. So that's a great question. And so today, as we're
just launching, we don't havelike the automated like, I would
say, recurrent like funding, butit's something that we want to
add like very soon. And it'sgreat that you mentioned like,
for example, 50 bucks in everypayroll, because like one of our
like, angle of approach waswisest is to build partnerships
(13:30):
with companies to offer wisejust as a benefit to complement
the 401 K's so people can canhave it through their company
and maybe subsidized by thecompany. So they don't even have
to pay the 10 or 20 bucks. Andthey can do that like every
month like take like 50 bucks or100 bucks of my payroll and put
everybody's invoices and by theway we just signed a few months
(13:51):
ago first partnerships. And thenthe first partner that he's
going to offer that to theemployees is like the NBA team
of Cleveland, the club, theCavs, they ask who we partner
with them and they are going tooffer wises to all their
employees.
Josh Bolton (14:05):
That's awesome. So then they're paying the $240 a
year.
Unknown (14:10):
Yeah, they're going to subsidize wages for the
employees and it's gonna be freefor the employee.
Josh Bolton (14:15):
That's awesome.
That's also good for you too.
Okay, the cool then that's Ilike that because i i use TD
Ameritrade I have my Rothaccount with them. And I'd like
it I just say alright, everypayday pull 30 bucks out and
then they don't have anautomatic buying system. That's
where I was like, Oh, do youhave that source? Like you
(14:36):
automatically get the three $30And you're like Okay, now we'll
just distribute it equallyamongst all my trades. Yeah,
when you when you do get thatlike you got me then
Unknown (14:47):
yeah, that's that's in the in the in the in the roadmap
among other like, I would saylike features because they as I
said, we are going live now. Wethink the basic functionalities
and like we're exciting tooexcited. To get like the users
on board and the clients onboard, so so they can tell us
what they want us first to tellthem to add, we That's how we're
(15:08):
going to prioritize like, so. Sosuper excited about that.
Josh Bolton (15:11):
That's awesome. So then how long have I'm assuming
you didn't code everything youhad a team under you? How long
did this project take for you tobuild up?
Unknown (15:20):
Yeah, so it was a quite a bigger undertaking. A Baba was
like a COVID in the middle. Butlike, yes, it has been like a
three year journey. Because it'snot about just like coding and
building. It's also about like,it's a financial institution,
its financial business. So weneed to make sure that what we
do is compliant with theregulations that we also get our
license with a regulator. So weare SEC regulated, we are
(15:43):
working also with third parties,to help us with the custodial
accounts and the trades, tohappen to have everything
happening in the backend in away that is secured and insured
also. So all that is like, it's,it's not as easy as like Signia,
like a lemonade stand, ordriveway. But now we are ready
(16:06):
for Showtime. And, and so wejust started like a couple of
months ago, like the friends andfamily testing, to have like the
first I would say fin rack. Andnow we're about to release the
app in the App Store. So andit's already it's already there.
So anyone can go and see ourwebsite, the App Store, and
registering or at least likegoing to our waiting list. And
(16:28):
we are there.
Josh Bolton (16:30):
Are you on the Apple Store?
Unknown (16:32):
Yes, we are in Apple's App Store and Google Play Store
as well.
Josh Bolton (16:36):
Okay, I'm gonna look you up. As we speak, why is
this? So then I have so then thenext question for me comes up is
do you have any plans to goingpublic with this eventually.
Unknown (16:51):
So for now, it's not something that I'm thinking
about, like I'm thinking about,like, it's because going public
is like, I would say like a longterm, I would say possibility,
the idea was wisest is more likenow to see like, what is going
to be the best way to growwisest, and to reach our
audience and to help ouraudience. So that's why we are
(17:11):
like doing these partnerships tooffer whiteness as a benefit
also to try to partner with likecredit unions and small banks to
offer wisest as a, as a cobranded product for in between
savings and wealth managementservices, as well as directly
through the through the app thatyou that you are like playing
with now. And so and so when wewill have access that, then we
(17:33):
will have like a better idea oflike, what is going to be the
best path for like, the growthand what, where this can lead us
like if it's like a to an IPOfantastic. If not like it's like
an acquisition by a larger andfinancial institution. Why not?
But that's not my preoccupation.
Now. Now, like, how can I helpthe people to get there, and how
(17:54):
they can be happy with what wehave developed? And and we go
from there.
Josh Bolton (18:01):
So then, as I'm looking through your app, I'm
actually downloaded so you cansee what it's like. Do you offer
fractional shares? Because like,yes, currently, currently,
Amazon still like to grant evenfor me, that's like, that's hard
to get.
Unknown (18:14):
Yes, yes, yes, yeah, we offer fractional shares. And we
can go up to like, as I wasmentioning before, like, you can
buy five bucks off Amazon. Wecan we can work through that. So
that's why I say like, yes, youcan start with like 100 or $200
in the app, like it's okay.
Josh Bolton (18:35):
Do you offer offer like an annual payment? So if
like, I paid you upfront 200 andsaid 240 Do you have an annual
discount?
Unknown (18:45):
Yeah. So so as we are launching now, we are having
like the I would say the firstmonth is for free and then we
are going to have like also likethe next two or three months at
half the price. So So for forthe lounge, we have like special
offers. But obviously like we'regoing to do what you said, like,
if you pay your yearlysubscription, right away, you're
(19:07):
going to have like a discount.
So yes.
Josh Bolton (19:09):
Okay, cool. Because I would rather pay that as, as
I'm looking at it is likeeverything that Robin Hood's
missing so and especiallyhearing you say it's insured and
backed by the government and II'll Vinci sign up for all that
too. I just like I like payingupfront I'm like I like a
discount take my 200 kind ofthing.
Unknown (19:29):
Yes, yes. And when Yeah, and what we see is like
also it could be like a way forlike, I don't know, sometimes
like parents or or grandparentsto do it to offer that to the to
the to the kids they say hereyou you are now like you become
a teenager it's time to startlike thinking about like
managing your money and it'sgonna be a way to do that to
(19:49):
give that to them as well. Sodefinitely like this like yearly
payment is something that we aregoing to have soon.
Josh Bolton (19:56):
Yeah, I could see that we're like, even and it was
apparent because a lot of likeentrepreneurs, I've talked to
you, but you just know mom pops.
In general, they don't have thetime to study the market kind of
thing. And so it could just beone of those, like, I really
liked the fact that you can dopercentages and stocks for the
amount that I really liked. Soyou could be like, Okay, I want
(20:17):
20% here. 20% there, 10% here.
And then it just, like I said,when the automation finally
kicks in, it just pulls themoney, they could do it for the
kids.
Unknown (20:27):
Yeah. And what is great also for like, anyone, not just
the kid, but for anyone is like,as you're following and
replicating, like, the portfolioof like, Mary and Jim, let's
say. They also like every weeklike posting, doing some posts
to explain what they do and toexplain basics about finance and
investing. So there is a wholeeducational also experience,
(20:48):
which is great for anyone liketo be able to have like a better
understanding of what ishappening this mysterious stock
market.
Josh Bolton (20:57):
Yeah, yeah, the stock market, especially
nowadays with meme stocks. It'sinteresting. It's really
interesting.
Unknown (21:04):
Name stock and the collapse of crypto and yeah, a
lot of things going on now.
Josh Bolton (21:10):
It was so funny for me like this one guy at my
current job. He is such ahardcore crypto enthusiast. And
I told him I do this is allgonna fall apart because he's
made he made like something like200k. And I was like, that's
great. But did you sell yourcrypto? He's like, no, like, so
you don't have money then?
Unknown (21:28):
Yes. And it's funny because I think you until
recently, like, everywhere, weretelling us like, hey, why don't
you offer crypto with visors?
And we said, like, Hey, why isthis he's here to help people to
build wealth, in a sustainableand in for the long term. We're
not here to play on the on thememe stock or like, or like
speculative investment. Andcrypto is still the wild wild
(21:49):
west.
Josh Bolton (21:52):
So there's no regulation at all.
Unknown (21:55):
So it's not regulated.
We are going to be very cautiouswith that. Because I don't think
like for people that areconservative, it's a good choice
to invest that because they'regonna have heart attacks.
Josh Bolton (22:07):
You Yeah, the whips. I mean, it'll I've
watched crypto because I liketrading. So I just I look at the
tickers for them. I was talkingto one guy a couple weeks ago
and crypto was 20,000. After thecall, it dropped to 18,000 in
under 60 minutes and like twogrand just suddenly gone like
that. I'm like, that's crazy. Iwould not be able to sleep at
(22:30):
night would that?
Unknown (22:31):
Yeah, same. And I think our audience that we have like
at least with wisest is not thetype of people that like this
level of risk is more peoplethat that don't know where to
start with investing, they knowit's the right thing to do
because it's going to give themin the long term more return
than they used to savingaccounts. But they don't know
where to start. And so they'remore like conservative profiles.
(22:53):
And they don't want to have likethis this crazy swings that are
happening with crypto or memestocks.
Josh Bolton (23:00):
Right? So I'm just curious do you on your platform
Do you allow people to buy inthe master limited partnership
stocks?
Unknown (23:08):
No. So what will always like as I mentioned before, like
it's only like being able toreplicate what the portfolio
from like certain experts so soso so far like the users the end
users cannot like pick andchoose the products themselves
they are they are copying like astrategy directly
Josh Bolton (23:28):
he the only reason I asked about that because if
you get an A master limitedpartnership stock if you buy it
you become a key one and that'sone of those it's not impossible
but they're not consistent whenthey send out the key one so you
might have to file forextensions gets a little
stressful when
Unknown (23:44):
you're in for in for that for that reason we the
problems that are offering offerlike through the experts again
only like the classical StocksETFs and mutual funds like the
okay perfect the classicalproducts that are in the stock
market
Josh Bolton (23:58):
perfect Yeah, cuz I'm gonna say that's one of
those I know it's only like Ithink 62 or 68 Asheville stocks
or master limited partnerships.
Yeah, if you buy those thougheven if you owned it for half of
like a minute you get a k onewow kind of thing. So that's
where I was like just makingsure that you guys at least
right now we're not offering
Unknown (24:17):
no we're not doing that we again, our objective is to
make investing simple so we gowith things that like are easy
and and smooth for like the forthe for our users.
Josh Bolton (24:29):
Wonderful. Is there anything else that I might have
missed about whiteness that youwant to go into?
Unknown (24:36):
I think we covered a lot I also just like the mention
again that like that people cancan go in and have a peek you
through our website likeadvisors.com so w ice st like
just as yummy. Yep. voices.comalso like going into follow us
in our social media channelslike we have like the
(24:56):
traditional ones like Insta likeFacebook like Twitter, so they
can follow what is happeningthere. And then like, again,
like, sign up for our, for thewaitlist, we as we are like
launching we have like now over4000 people in the waitlist. So
we are super happy for that. So,so again like yeah, just like if
(25:16):
people want to have moreinformation, they can go there
or send us an email. And we arehere to help and answer and to
and to see how we can make wagesbetter. So
Josh Bolton (25:27):
wonderful. Where can everyone contact you though?
Axel?
Unknown (25:33):
Yes. Like there is like a DNA the easiest way to to
reach out to reach out to us.
And to have like also like aquick answer is to send an email
at like info@voices.com. So thisis like an email box that we
share between the different cofounders. So this way like we
can be prompted to answer to anyrequest.
Josh Bolton (25:56):
Cool. So if you do send Axl at info info@wises.com
Be sure to put in the subject. Iwant to talk to Axel. Exactly.
Cool. absolute honor and apleasure to have you on.
Unknown (26:11):
No thank you. Thank you for hosting me.
Josh Bolton (26:14):
Yeah, yeah, it was great.
Welcome to the Josh Bolton show. interesting and
inspiring conversations. And nowyour host, Josh Bolton. Welcome.
Welcome, everybody. Today wehave asked the T bone. This is
awesome, dude, he was justgiving me a little bit of
backstory of what he does. Andman, we are in for a good ride
(00:23):
today. action packed andeverything. Axl, take it away.
Unknown (00:28):
Now, thank you for hosting me today. And so it's,
it's pleasure to speak with withyou and your audience. And yes,
happy to, to chit chat and havea conversation about what I do
who I am. And we can go fromthere.
Josh Bolton (00:42):
Yes, we will. So tell us a little about yourself
and your backstory kind ofthing.
Unknown (00:47):
Yeah. Perfect. So yes, like, I am speaking to you like
today from like, Cleveland,Ohio. But you hear my accent is
not a Midwest accent. I'm fromfrom France originally. And
like, even if we're going to endup speaking about investing and
finance and technology. I am bytraining a mechanical engineer.
So nothing to do with, with withwith finance. But that's what
(01:09):
leads to me to finance today.
Because like, when I startedworking in the, in the car
industry, knowing nothing aboutfinance, I wanted to start
investing for myself to buildwealth for my future to be able
to be to buy a house on point orto still start thinking about my
retirement. But like when I wasgoing to try to find a solution,
like I tried, I tried first withlike, tools like Robin Hood, or
(01:31):
ETrade. But like, when I wasgoing through there, it's when
it's easy to access. It'sfantastic. But then it's like,
what do I do? What do I buy?
What do I sell? I'm gonna screwup. And right. So I was like,
let's go back to my bank to asklike if they can help me. And
when I went there, they told methat yeah, we can help you. But
do you already have like 100 or200k? To qualify for to get a
(01:54):
financial advisor? No, not yet.
Okay, so come back in fiveyears. And so and so then I went
to the only solution that wasleft, which is like, the new
tools that are appearing nowlike Robo tools like acorns,
Betterment Wealthfront, which isgreat. If you want to put your
money in a place, and thenforget about it, because it's a
(02:15):
it's almost like a black box,you have to trust the algorithm,
you don't know what is happeninginside. And you have a limited
choice. And so it's verydifficult to control what is
what is happening. So can befrustrating for a lot of people.
And so that's why like, Idecided, you know why, at some
point, I need to find a way tosolve to solve that. And I think
that's the reason why like,after a few years working in the
(02:37):
car industry, I switched tobanking, I went to the EU, I
came to the US did my MBA atMIT, and switched to the finance
to banking, working in a fewbanks for a few years, being the
head of strategy for for theseinstitutions. And even like,
start from scratch a littleonline bank, just before doing
Weiser. So and I think thatbeing able to build a little bit
(03:02):
from scratch, gave me theconfidence that I was able to
build a solution to address likethe investing issue that we
mentioned before. And that'swhere I am now now. It's like
launching what my my startuplike my Fintech startup, named
wisest, which is about like,making investing approachable
and easy for everyone. And sothat's the, that's, that's my
(03:24):
journey so far.
Josh Bolton (03:28):
That's wonderful.
Especially, like you touched onthe engineering. The everyone
I've talked to you on here who'sdone something very similar, and
it's very successful. They allstarted off in engineers, and
they're like, wait a minute, I'man engineer, I could just
reverse engineer that, and makeit work. And then, listening, I
was like, I was just chucklingin my head. I'm like, yep, if
(03:48):
anyone can figure out anengineer will figure it out.
Unknown (03:54):
No, it's, it's true that the idea that it's like
that, it's like this mind oflike being curious to be able to
find solutions to problems. And,and yes, like, I found my
problem was like, trying to helppeople investing. And that's
what I'm trying to do now.
Josh Bolton (04:09):
That's wonderful.
So what are some of thestrategies that you learned in
this, like, up to the point ofyour FinTech for investing to
make it more approachable forthe Average Joe?
Unknown (04:20):
Yeah, so So what I what I saw is like, first that tech,
in the last few years, likethere was a lot of evolution in
the market, and a lot of newtools and a lot of in the use of
technology. That is fantastic.
Because like 20 years ago, RobinHood was not existing. And so it
was very limited to be able todo to access and can do trading.
And everyone can do it, which isfantastic. But like, again, like
(04:44):
we give everyone a car with thenot a lot of people knows how to
drive. And so now it's like nowthat we have access to it, how
we can make it easy for peopleto operate, not just to have
access to it. So that's, that's,that's what that's what I'm
trying to do is, let's, let'ssolve the second issue and issue
(05:04):
after being able to access it ina more convenient way. Now let's
learn how we can help to operateand to do it and to invest
really. And so that's why Ithink that that the, the robo
aspect is is great for like somesome some aspects and, and using
the machine and, and algorithmthat are like, very right right
(05:25):
about Ravel, but but I thinkthat money is still for most of
people and very emotional. Andso it's an emotional topic. And
so we like to have like, humancontact, to chat about topics to
have confirmations, andvalidations. And so and so
that's why with wisest, webrought back the human into the,
into the, into the into theprocess, and be like and use
(05:50):
that technology to make topackage everything and make it
accessible to everyone.
Josh Bolton (05:59):
So the initial part of my question was, what did you
learn in your journey to forinvesting strategies that led
you to wise us?
Unknown (06:07):
Yeah, yes, thanks.
Sorry about that. I was like,it's all good.
Josh Bolton (06:11):
It's all good.
Unknown (06:13):
So So, so what I learned is like, at first, like,
about investing and investingstrategies, that is, and one of
the reasons why that I am doingthat is like, very limited,
bring me a part of the society,I will say is accessing is
accessing investing. I'm seeingthat like, if you look at the
(06:34):
statistics today, like, Ilearned that like, only 25 to
30% of like investors are women,for example. And so we knew that
there is something here that isnot working. And same same thing
with minorities, like thereisn't there is not a lot of
people that are investing there.
So there is a lot of things thatcan be do that can be done to
help and there is a hugeopportunity. And then in terms
(06:54):
of investing, I saw that alsolike people are like, when they
are not guided, they may havelike the over they may overreact
to what is happening in themarkets and take bad decisions.
And so the idea is to providethem support. So they don't
overreact and and don't take baddecisions. Because if not, you
(07:15):
see the market dropping, oh, I'dhave to sell and you sell low,
and then the market is goingback up and then you buy high
and all bad. So so that's that'swhat that's what also we want to
avoid and try to help people tonavigate through these
uncertainties.
Josh Bolton (07:31):
Should you have different like, investment
strategies like the contrariantrend trading stuff like that?
Unknown (07:37):
Yeah. So what we have in the in the platform and the
way it works, I think it's agood time now to jump into that
is like when people come in,they don't see stocks, ETFs
mutual funds, what they see theysee people and the people that
the like, you see, like when yougo into Instagram, Facebook or
LinkedIn, everybody is used toanalyze people. And these people
(07:58):
that we have in the platform arelike financial experts. So
financial advisors, portfoliomanagers in the real life. And
they are sharing their profilepersonal profile, as well as
some portfolio and strategieswith the users. And then as you
as the users after like somesome questions to help to do
matching process, people can seea list of like, of experts and
(08:22):
say I choose like 123, and buildthe team, almost like you build
your fantasy football team, butyou build your team of experts,
that is going to work for you onyour behalf. And so when you
when you choose a team, and yousay hey, I want like to maybe
have like $10,000, let's say andI want to put like 30% of my
money on Jim, and 30% in Maryand 40% in in Jeffrey, and the
(08:46):
platform wise is gonna is goingto replicate on your behalf the
portfolio of Jim different Mary,and automatically, and then you
as a user will only manage yourteam. So your portfolio is going
to be these three names. And youwill manage that instead of
having to go and manage like themutual fund XYZ that is super
scary and abstract for a noviceinvestor. And yeah, like the
(09:08):
thing that is great also ofhaving this human layer, let's
say is that like, each time Jim,Jeff or Mary, do a change in our
portfolio, they have to explainit and say Why say hey guys that
are following us. Like I'mfollowing my portfolio. This
this week, I want to do thischange because of this and this
reason. And then like the nextweek, if they don't really
(09:29):
change they can say hey, by theway, this week the market
dropped like 5% Don't worry,it's because of this and this
like aspect in the macroeconomy. So so they can explain
and and and make people notoverreact to what is happening
out there. So so this way, theyhelp people to keep I would say
you're calm and consistent withthe plan they had in their mind
(09:51):
about investing.
Josh Bolton (09:54):
Interesting, okay, I like I can get behind that
like we know good strategy.
Let's see Like Jim is more likesills puts on s&p 500. Generally
speaking, that's going to workkind of thing. And Mary is more
like a Trend Trader. Okay,that's cool. Yeah, I would like
that then be like you get ahybrid of everything. But now
this is just me that came up.
(10:16):
And probably a lot of people arethinking about this, how what
would be the expense fee that wewould have to pay you to get to
this isn't a monthly rate, it's,
Unknown (10:23):
yeah, and so it's 1%, we decided, again, to go with
something that is not scary, andeasy for people, which is like,
Let's go like the Netflix model,let's take to access wises, it's
like a 10 or 20 bucks monthlysubscription. And then with
that, there is everything isincluded. So you don't have a
there is no hidden fees oradditional fees. And then you
(10:44):
can access to, to all theJeffries and Mary's and Jones
that are in the platform likesharing their their expertise
and their portfolios. And andthat's it. And so like, so
that's a very, very simplemodel.
Josh Bolton (10:59):
So is it just one flat fee? Or is it like 10
bucks, just like the starterpackage? 20 bucks is like the,
we will fully automateeverything you can think
Unknown (11:08):
so yes, with 10 bucks, you can, you can basically
follow one expert. And with 20bucks, you can follow as many
experts as you want. So you canbasically like split a little
bit of your morning, like, Iwant to follow up for experts
that 25% of my money in 25% ofmy money for different experts.
So you can do that. So we sothat's the basic one is 10. And
then with 20 bucks, you can doyou can do, you can do teams.
(11:32):
Okay,
Josh Bolton (11:33):
so then, my, my next question, from what I've
learned, do I need to be anaccredited investor for this? Or
is this an 18 year old without2200 bucks can do it kind of
thing?
Unknown (11:44):
Exactly. You can do it with like 50 bucks. So there is
no minimum to start using theplatform. The only thing is
like, obviously, to be able tofollows certain portfolios that
are there in the platform, maybewe suggest like, hey, we suggest
for this one a minimum of like$1 or $250 for this one. So
depending on the portfolio,because if you want to have
(12:06):
something that is working from atrading perspective, you need to
have at least five bucks of eachproduct. So the trades can
happen in the in the back end.
And so that's like, why wesuggest minimums, but like it's
only suggested minimum, so youcan you can start with with 10
bucks or 20 bucks if you want.
Josh Bolton (12:24):
And is there an automatic withdrawal? So like
you automatically if I say Iwant you to pull $50 and put it
into my pot. And Omar, will thathappen?
Unknown (12:33):
Yes. So the way it works like when you when you
when you open your account, youwill connect your bank account
in your bank account with withISIS account with because wises
is going to be a brokerageaccount, like like, like your
Robin Hood account, and you willtransfer money from your
checking or savings in the sameway whenever you wish.
Josh Bolton (12:52):
Okay, so I could say within your your app, say,
hey, every week on Friday for mypayday pull $100. And can I also
tell it to automatically investinto my three traitors to the
same time? Yes,
Unknown (13:07):
yeah. So that's a great question. And so today, as we're
just launching, we don't havelike the automated like, I would
say, recurrent like funding, butit's something that we want to
add like very soon. And it'sgreat that you mentioned like,
for example, 50 bucks in everypayroll, because like one of our
like, angle of approach waswisest is to build partnerships
(13:30):
with companies to offer wisejust as a benefit to complement
the 401 K's so people can canhave it through their company
and maybe subsidized by thecompany. So they don't even have
to pay the 10 or 20 bucks. Andthey can do that like every
month like take like 50 bucks or100 bucks of my payroll and put
everybody's invoices and by theway we just signed a few months
(13:51):
ago first partnerships. And thenthe first partner that he's
going to offer that to theemployees is like the NBA team
of Cleveland, the club, theCavs, they ask who we partner
with them and they are going tooffer wises to all their
employees.
Josh Bolton (14:05):
That's awesome. So then they're paying the $240 a
year.
Unknown (14:10):
Yeah, they're going to subsidize wages for the
employees and it's gonna be freefor the employee.
Josh Bolton (14:15):
That's awesome.
That's also good for you too.
Okay, the cool then that's Ilike that because i i use TD
Ameritrade I have my Rothaccount with them. And I'd like
it I just say alright, everypayday pull 30 bucks out and
then they don't have anautomatic buying system. That's
where I was like, Oh, do youhave that source? Like you
(14:36):
automatically get the three $30And you're like Okay, now we'll
just distribute it equallyamongst all my trades. Yeah,
when you when you do get thatlike you got me then
Unknown (14:47):
yeah, that's that's in the in the in the in the roadmap
among other like, I would saylike features because they as I
said, we are going live now. Wethink the basic functionalities
and like we're exciting tooexcited. To get like the users
on board and the clients onboard, so so they can tell us
what they want us first to tellthem to add, we That's how we're
(15:08):
going to prioritize like, so. Sosuper excited about that.
Josh Bolton (15:11):
That's awesome. So then how long have I'm assuming
you didn't code everything youhad a team under you? How long
did this project take for you tobuild up?
Unknown (15:20):
Yeah, so it was a quite a bigger undertaking. A Baba was
like a COVID in the middle. Butlike, yes, it has been like a
three year journey. Because it'snot about just like coding and
building. It's also about like,it's a financial institution,
its financial business. So weneed to make sure that what we
do is compliant with theregulations that we also get our
license with a regulator. So weare SEC regulated, we are
(15:43):
working also with third parties,to help us with the custodial
accounts and the trades, tohappen to have everything
happening in the backend in away that is secured and insured
also. So all that is like, it's,it's not as easy as like Signia,
like a lemonade stand, ordriveway. But now we are ready
(16:06):
for Showtime. And, and so wejust started like a couple of
months ago, like the friends andfamily testing, to have like the
first I would say fin rack. Andnow we're about to release the
app in the App Store. So andit's already it's already there.
So anyone can go and see ourwebsite, the App Store, and
registering or at least likegoing to our waiting list. And
(16:28):
we are there.
Josh Bolton (16:30):
Are you on the Apple Store?
Unknown (16:32):
Yes, we are in Apple's App Store and Google Play Store
as well.
Josh Bolton (16:36):
Okay, I'm gonna look you up. As we speak, why is
this? So then I have so then thenext question for me comes up is
do you have any plans to goingpublic with this eventually.
Unknown (16:51):
So for now, it's not something that I'm thinking
about, like I'm thinking about,like, it's because going public
is like, I would say like a longterm, I would say possibility,
the idea was wisest is more likenow to see like, what is going
to be the best way to growwisest, and to reach our
audience and to help ouraudience. So that's why we are
(17:11):
like doing these partnerships tooffer whiteness as a benefit
also to try to partner with likecredit unions and small banks to
offer wisest as a, as a cobranded product for in between
savings and wealth managementservices, as well as directly
through the through the app thatyou that you are like playing
with now. And so and so when wewill have access that, then we
(17:33):
will have like a better idea oflike, what is going to be the
best path for like, the growthand what, where this can lead us
like if it's like a to an IPOfantastic. If not like it's like
an acquisition by a larger andfinancial institution. Why not?
But that's not my preoccupation.
Now. Now, like, how can I helpthe people to get there, and how
(17:54):
they can be happy with what wehave developed? And and we go
from there.
Josh Bolton (18:01):
So then, as I'm looking through your app, I'm
actually downloaded so you cansee what it's like. Do you offer
fractional shares? Because like,yes, currently, currently,
Amazon still like to grant evenfor me, that's like, that's hard
to get.
Unknown (18:14):
Yes, yes, yes, yeah, we offer fractional shares. And we
can go up to like, as I wasmentioning before, like, you can
buy five bucks off Amazon. Wecan we can work through that. So
that's why I say like, yes, youcan start with like 100 or $200
in the app, like it's okay.
Josh Bolton (18:35):
Do you offer offer like an annual payment? So if
like, I paid you upfront 200 andsaid 240 Do you have an annual
discount?
Unknown (18:45):
Yeah. So so as we are launching now, we are having
like the I would say the firstmonth is for free and then we
are going to have like also likethe next two or three months at
half the price. So So for forthe lounge, we have like special
offers. But obviously like we'regoing to do what you said, like,
if you pay your yearlysubscription, right away, you're
(19:07):
going to have like a discount.
So yes.
Josh Bolton (19:09):
Okay, cool. Because I would rather pay that as, as
I'm looking at it is likeeverything that Robin Hood's
missing so and especiallyhearing you say it's insured and
backed by the government and II'll Vinci sign up for all that
too. I just like I like payingupfront I'm like I like a
discount take my 200 kind ofthing.
Unknown (19:29):
Yes, yes. And when Yeah, and what we see is like
also it could be like a way forlike, I don't know, sometimes
like parents or or grandparentsto do it to offer that to the to
the to the kids they say hereyou you are now like you become
a teenager it's time to startlike thinking about like
managing your money and it'sgonna be a way to do that to
(19:49):
give that to them as well. Sodefinitely like this like yearly
payment is something that we aregoing to have soon.
Josh Bolton (19:56):
Yeah, I could see that we're like, even and it was
apparent because a lot of likeentrepreneurs, I've talked to
you, but you just know mom pops.
In general, they don't have thetime to study the market kind of
thing. And so it could just beone of those, like, I really
liked the fact that you can dopercentages and stocks for the
amount that I really liked. Soyou could be like, Okay, I want
(20:17):
20% here. 20% there, 10% here.
And then it just, like I said,when the automation finally
kicks in, it just pulls themoney, they could do it for the
kids.
Unknown (20:27):
Yeah. And what is great also for like, anyone, not just
the kid, but for anyone is like,as you're following and
replicating, like, the portfolioof like, Mary and Jim, let's
say. They also like every weeklike posting, doing some posts
to explain what they do and toexplain basics about finance and
investing. So there is a wholeeducational also experience,
(20:48):
which is great for anyone liketo be able to have like a better
understanding of what ishappening this mysterious stock
market.
Josh Bolton (20:57):
Yeah, yeah, the stock market, especially
nowadays with meme stocks. It'sinteresting. It's really
interesting.
Unknown (21:04):
Name stock and the collapse of crypto and yeah, a
lot of things going on now.
Josh Bolton (21:10):
It was so funny for me like this one guy at my
current job. He is such ahardcore crypto enthusiast. And
I told him I do this is allgonna fall apart because he's
made he made like something like200k. And I was like, that's
great. But did you sell yourcrypto? He's like, no, like, so
you don't have money then?
Unknown (21:28):
Yes. And it's funny because I think you until
recently, like, everywhere, weretelling us like, hey, why don't
you offer crypto with visors?
And we said, like, Hey, why isthis he's here to help people to
build wealth, in a sustainableand in for the long term. We're
not here to play on the on thememe stock or like, or like
speculative investment. Andcrypto is still the wild wild
(21:49):
west.
Josh Bolton (21:52):
So there's no regulation at all.
Unknown (21:55):
So it's not regulated.
We are going to be very cautiouswith that. Because I don't think
like for people that areconservative, it's a good choice
to invest that because they'regonna have heart attacks.
Josh Bolton (22:07):
You Yeah, the whips. I mean, it'll I've
watched crypto because I liketrading. So I just I look at the
tickers for them. I was talkingto one guy a couple weeks ago
and crypto was 20,000. After thecall, it dropped to 18,000 in
under 60 minutes and like twogrand just suddenly gone like
that. I'm like, that's crazy. Iwould not be able to sleep at
(22:30):
night would that?
Unknown (22:31):
Yeah, same. And I think our audience that we have like
at least with wisest is not thetype of people that like this
level of risk is more peoplethat that don't know where to
start with investing, they knowit's the right thing to do
because it's going to give themin the long term more return
than they used to savingaccounts. But they don't know
where to start. And so they'remore like conservative profiles.
(22:53):
And they don't want to have likethis this crazy swings that are
happening with crypto or memestocks.
Josh Bolton (23:00):
Right? So I'm just curious do you on your platform
Do you allow people to buy inthe master limited partnership
stocks?
Unknown (23:08):
No. So what will always like as I mentioned before, like
it's only like being able toreplicate what the portfolio
from like certain experts so soso so far like the users the end
users cannot like pick andchoose the products themselves
they are they are copying like astrategy directly
Josh Bolton (23:28):
he the only reason I asked about that because if
you get an A master limitedpartnership stock if you buy it
you become a key one and that'sone of those it's not impossible
but they're not consistent whenthey send out the key one so you
might have to file forextensions gets a little
stressful when
Unknown (23:44):
you're in for in for that for that reason we the
problems that are offering offerlike through the experts again
only like the classical StocksETFs and mutual funds like the
okay perfect the classicalproducts that are in the stock
market
Josh Bolton (23:58):
perfect Yeah, cuz I'm gonna say that's one of
those I know it's only like Ithink 62 or 68 Asheville stocks
or master limited partnerships.
Yeah, if you buy those thougheven if you owned it for half of
like a minute you get a k onewow kind of thing. So that's
where I was like just makingsure that you guys at least
right now we're not offering
Unknown (24:17):
no we're not doing that we again, our objective is to
make investing simple so we gowith things that like are easy
and and smooth for like the forthe for our users.
Josh Bolton (24:29):
Wonderful. Is there anything else that I might have
missed about whiteness that youwant to go into?
Unknown (24:36):
I think we covered a lot I also just like the mention
again that like that people cancan go in and have a peek you
through our website likeadvisors.com so w ice st like
just as yummy. Yep. voices.comalso like going into follow us
in our social media channelslike we have like the
(24:56):
traditional ones like Insta likeFacebook like Twitter, so they
can follow what is happeningthere. And then like, again,
like, sign up for our, for thewaitlist, we as we are like
launching we have like now over4000 people in the waitlist. So
we are super happy for that. So,so again like yeah, just like if
(25:16):
people want to have moreinformation, they can go there
or send us an email. And we arehere to help and answer and to
and to see how we can make wagesbetter. So
Josh Bolton (25:27):
wonderful. Where can everyone contact you though?
Axel?
Unknown (25:33):
Yes. Like there is like a DNA the easiest way to to
reach out to reach out to us.
And to have like also like aquick answer is to send an email
at like info@voices.com. So thisis like an email box that we
share between the different cofounders. So this way like we
can be prompted to answer to anyrequest.
Josh Bolton (25:56):
Cool. So if you do send Axl at info info@wises.com
Be sure to put in the subject. Iwant to talk to Axel. Exactly.
Cool. absolute honor and apleasure to have you on.
Unknown (26:11):
No thank you. Thank you for hosting me.
Josh Bolton (26:14):
Yeah, yeah, it was great.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.