EP. 181 - 'Inside An Indie Record Company' with Blackhall Records - Just Get A Real Job

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Just Get a
Real Job. I'm absolutely thrilled to
welcome onto the podcast Marty and Christine Armstrong, who are
the two of the founders of BlackHole Records, which is an
Independent Record label that isbehind bands such as Dictator,
Waverley, and Midnight Ambulance.

(00:21):
Of course, we've had Dictator and Waverley on the podcast
before, so some of you might be familiar with those acts, but it
was an absolute privilege to getto sit down and chat with Marty
and Christine about all the goings on of running an
independent label, state of the music industry in 2025, and
much, much more. I recorded this one back at the
start of the summer. So thrilled to finally be

(00:43):
putting this one out. Also, just to quickly flag that,
the Salma Music Awards are coming up and Waverly, who is
one of the acts on Black Holes label, are up for an award as
well. So there's links to that in the
show notes. There's also links to the
category that Black Hole are going to be sponsoring as well
for best Newcomer and obviously throughout the episodes there'll

(01:04):
be links to some of the things we talk about as well.
Thank you as well everyone that's been supporting the show.
If you are a new listener or you've been enjoying the podcast
and you've not followed us on Spotify or subscribed on YouTube
or wherever you're listening, please do so.
That really helps us to keep growing and find new listeners.
Also, just to quickly say as well, I'm aware we haven't been
putting out episodes on the regular day every week and it's

(01:26):
not always been weekly. It's just been quite a busy
time. We're trying to and make this
podcast as good as it can be so for the rest of the year.
The episodes will be sort. Of going out a bit more
sporadically, but do keep an eyeon the feed.
We've got some brilliant chats lined up, some brilliant ones
recorded and yeah, really enjoying the podcast and
celebrated five years the other week as well, which is just

(01:46):
mental. So thank you honestly for all
your continued support and I really, really.
Hope you enjoy this week's episode with Black Hole Records.
Thank you for listening, my Christine.
Thank you very, very much for coming on.
Just get a real job tonight. I know we've been trying to get
you guys on the podcast for ages.
You of course run Black Hole Records, which is the record

(02:06):
company behind Dictator and Waverly, who we had on the
podcast just the other week. But of course, I'd dictate on
the podcast three times so that they know they're well
acquainted to our listeners. But it's a pleasure to have you
guys on. How's it going?
Good. Thanks.
Good. Good.
I'm just going to be honest withthe listeners and I'd just say
that I'm making you sort of repeat the start because we

(02:27):
recorded for about 5 minutes andhad some tech glitches, so it
maybe felt too scripted there for you.
But I suppose a good place to start is what was it like
running a record label, especially an indie 1 like
yourselves? Well, I think.
You say last thing. I think probably on a daily
basis it changes. It changes depending on

(02:48):
depending on the needs of the artist it changes.
So I think probably the best place to sort of start, but also
make it brief is to, to see that.
So I we've got at the moment we have three artists on our label,
Dictator, Midnight Ambulance andWaverley and each of us, myself,
Martin Scott, who's not here at the moment because he's in

(03:08):
California with another artist not on our label.
We Co manage a band each basically.
So it all depends. So we've just been in Paris with
dictators when we come back and that'll be spent sort of
debriefing on that and choosing up the contacts that we've met
not just for not just for for the other bands that might want

(03:28):
to travel to, for example, Parison this occasion in the future.
And then couple weeks ago we hadWaverly releasing a record.
So everything was, everything was based around that release.
Now, although we manage the different bands, when it comes
down to releases, everything goes into the release.
So we're all involved in that. It's not just market, it's

(03:49):
involved because he manages Waverly, it's all of us.
So really on a really depending on what happens on a daily basis
or what's happening with our band is dictated by what did I
say with them On our bands, whathappens on a daily basis is
dictated by our bands and what'sgoing on with them.
And so, yeah, it's, it's not we do this on a Monday, this on a

(04:11):
Tuesday and so on and so forth. It all just, it can change all
the time. Sometimes they're busier than
other. This weekend, it's Waverly.
This weekend, it's Waverly. Waverly three shows and for
ours, yeah, so it's records in stores.
They've got things Sterling, they've got a path as well.
So it's going to be pretty, pretty full on for the boys.
So anyway, that's where we startcoming as well.

(04:32):
Just trying to help that we better back up just to try and
help them be anything from wooden and wooden out driving
them. They're driving them back just
to make it stress free as possible from really, which is
sort of our sort of kind of being our colon.
The bands like it. Yeah, I think we have a
different, we have a what we like to think is the little
unique model and where we do allthese other things like we, we

(04:55):
man the merch stand, we drive the splitter van.
I see we Mark drives the splitter and Scott if you really
had to. But yeah, we get we get involved
to that degree and while the bands are maybe setting up doing
sound cheques, depending on the event, it gives us then the
opportunity either as label stroke manager or just champion

(05:16):
of the bands where we can talk to other people that are there
about them. And it gives people a point of
contact while they're busy setting up and so on.
So it pays off to be able to do all of that.
And that's what makes our littlelabel just that little bit.
It gives it that little bit of uniqueness.
And I think that's what the artslike about working with us.
Is yeah, it's very from facing like you're very sounds like

(05:38):
you're very involved, like day-to-day with your artists as
well in a nice way, which, you know, you're not just hiding
behind like a desk or you know, that you're not like a faceless
company or something. And what's nice is of, you know,
obviously we've had dictate on this podcast many times and you
know, they always speak very highly of working with Black
Hole and like it does, you know,from me and you guys in the
past, it's like a very, you know, friendly company and

(05:59):
stuff, which is nice. And the other thing I kind of
want to ask as well as we will go and bloat the questions about
the music industry and how it all sort of works from your
perspective and different artists and stuff.
But I want to know about you kind of both individually as
well at your backgrounds and howyou kind of go into like running
a label like Black Ball and stuff.
So I was that where you first this they might, but tell us a
bit about you, like how did you get into doing this and like

(06:21):
what's your background, the music and stuff?
Yeah, it's probably just more music enthusiast always at gigs
all the time. I was just always listening to
new radio shows, all that sort of stuff through the 90s and the
noughties. Listen, when all the Arctic
Monkeys and the Kooks and all these bands were coming through
and then although I'm mature drummer like to say I can hold a

(06:42):
beat, but I've always just been into the music sort of seem just
enjoyed it and always only record shops were those sort of
people and that's where it's sort of snowball from there to
then we were today, but it was more than Putin.
So that's where he had pulled Scott into it because I knew he

(07:03):
was there. I saw this idea.
Let's just come out way this just see if we can help some
bands and get going and it just spoon my mate Scott.
We have known since we were likenursery school.
So it's the idea. Let's see if we can start with
labels. Just help some bands.
You're sort of a bit more experienced in the actual scene.
And then it was sort of ground running from there.
And then I sort of suggested this idea to you and that's sort

(07:28):
of the background for me throughto where it sort of started from
there that Christine's always been involved in the sort of
steamed music, but in a different sort of side tell you.
Knows about that, Christine? Yeah.
So I wouldn't really say, well, you're involved to a degree, but
I'll not get into the whole story a bit.
But I've gone to I've, I've beenbrought up by my dad taking me

(07:51):
to gigs since I was like 6 yearsold.
And the first gig I ever went towas the band Madness in the
Edinburgh Playhouse like years ago, where it always used to be
bands that played there and not long runners as a musical
theatre. And I spent my summers as a
teenager going to gigs in there as I was growing up.
That's how me and my best friendTrisha spent all our summers.

(08:12):
You just messaged me the other day.
Did you not see this band out? And the Playhouse was like,
definitely. You know, it's like there were
so many. There was a different one on all
every night. And so I grew up around that.
And then later on I got involvedin the family business where I
was working for my dad. And I was basically, although it
wasn't just sort of gigs that I was working at, it was a huge

(08:35):
part of what I was doing. So I was working in the event
control room at the Murrayfield and T in the Park Castle
concerts, the list goes on and on.
And I've done that for 17 years.So I've done that because I was
a family business. I've done that over and above
working full time. So that's I used to do that the
weekends or or midweek, the gigswere on.

(08:56):
So that for me though wasn't like a job because I loved, I
just loved being in a boat and it was amazing how much that
I've taken from working at thesebig events like Tea in the Park
for example, or Castle Concerts.So when for example, we were at
summer sessions last year with Dictator when they were opening

(09:17):
for Young Fathers, being in thatsituation, I was sort of many
tour managing them if you like, and all that experience that I
had from before all kinds of came into play.
So it's amazing how much that has actually helped me now, even
although this is a label and it's not nothing to do with my
control room. It's just the whole having a bit

(09:38):
of an understanding of how all the jigsaw pieces fit together
and not being frightened of a production area or a backstage
area. Just haven't had that bit of
experience. So it's kind of been something
that we've I've come up with through my life.
But it's the reason that our friend introduced us.
And we're we're married now, butwe were introduced by a friend,
by a mutual friend because of our mutual love for music.

(10:00):
And our first ever date actuallywas a prodigy gig.
Yeah. So it's, he's done the right
thing. He says that we're one of his
his best accomplishment. So it's it was kind of that it
was that combination of both of us and but not just having like
worked out like Marty, I've goneagainst, you know, it's always
just been massively under the same.
And then I suppose you probably didn't imagine like when you got

(10:22):
together that you'd be sort of running a label together as
well. That probably didn't cross your
mind at the time. No, definitely not.
No, I think that was Covid's fault, actually.
I think as well as being the first record label we'd had on
the podcast, you're also the first mind couple we'd ever had
on the podcast. So there's also a podcast first.
Yeah. It's nice.
You know, I didn't want to assume that, you know, you don't

(10:42):
want to like just, you never know.
Yeah, maybe I should have. I don't have to think of more
questions focused around that, but I always want to ask.
I I mean, as you know, from whenthe bands have been on the show
and stuff, I love asking people about where they're from and how
that's, that's influenced, you know, their whatever they've
done with their lives and you know, and oh, you're saying grew
up in Edinburgh and stuff, but are you've also from Edinburgh?

(11:03):
Is that like a part of your background?
Yeah, born and bred, Yeah. So it's kind of where I'm.
And Scott's the we grew. Up in Blarno, Yeah.
So as I say, since we were like in high school.
Yeah, play school, But then Scott's gone on to be.

(11:23):
He's not here to speak for himself, but he's gone on to be
a professional drummer and he for a long spell was the drummer
for First Aid Kit. But he also tour manages big
artists, which he's away doing just now.
So he brings a totally differentaspect because he's our industry
expert really and the label And actually, I was just talking

(11:45):
about this the other day there to a couple of the guys where we
were talking about actually, as our bands are growing, Scott's
inputs become starting to becomemore and more valuable as
they're as they're starting finding the ladder.
And it's it's great though, And also because he tour manages,
he's he's all over the world a lot of the time.

(12:06):
And it means that, for example, when you know, we recently had
dictated in New York and just sourcing things like, you know,
contacts for equipment and things like that, that's when
Scott comes into play because hehas all these contacts that are
there to sort of help. So we, we've got all these
little different elements that we sort of we sort of bring in.

(12:30):
He's the, he's our industry expert, Mark.
He's good at A&R and I'm good atkeeping all the shit together
are. You going to have all that to go
into each other. She takes bullshit as well.
Confirm. The bands will tell you that.
I think it's important. Obviously you've got to have
someone there doing that. But I want to ask a bit more

(12:51):
about Edinburgh as well. I mean, I was sort of asking
Waverly this of the week as well.
But like, I mean, you obviously grew up a little bit before
their time, bit further back as well.
But like, what was it like growing up in Edinburgh?
I know we Christine were touching on the Playhouse,
having lots of gigs and stuff. But like when you were both
growing up, was there a lot of music?
There was a very musical city. Or you know, how has it changed
over the years and stuff. Definitely changed, probably

(13:14):
further up the tree, like the Playhouse back in the day,
Winter War, you used to have a massive act every night.
The week coming through. It was just part of the touring
circuit, wasn't it? Yeah, every night say, I mean, I
don't go to many of them and youprobably were working at them
more. I worked at I could actually
done the merchant, the Playhouseas a teenager during the summer
holidays as well. It's never out the place, but

(13:35):
the Playhouse, you're right, thePlayhouse was was massive.
I love hearing the stories aboutthe Playhouse and my own, you
know, my again, my dad, but alsoyou'll you'll maybe know Myra
from regular music straight to Auntie Moore.
And she she's worked in the industry for decades and she was
talking about and when she was she was the right days local

(13:58):
legend slot and she was talking about the cues that used to be
the Playhouse, you know, talkingabout David Bowie tickets going
on sale and being right up the roads and up to the corner of
Princy St on Waterloo place and all this kind of stuff.
And it's a real shame that we don't have that anymore.
And that's I'd say that that's probably and from a grown up
point of view, isn't it? It's like it's, it's it's

(14:20):
unbelievable that we don't like that doesn't have the same
attraction as it used to do. I know that there's obviously
still like the Usher Hall and wenow have the O2, which I think's
now gone back to sell the Corn Exchange, but nobody quote me on
that because I'm not entirely sure.
But yeah, that sort of that being such a big, important and
iconic venue in Edinburgh doesn't really get used that

(14:41):
often now for gigs. No, not really at all.
To be fair. I suppose in general, like
venues across the UK are like just not the same as they were
like, and you'll know that from,you know, being a grassroot, the
roots label of grassroots fans like cannot say grassroots
probably there. But anyway, like it's sad.
Like, you know, even in Glasgow,like somewhere, you know, which
has always been a gig capital, like there's just not the same

(15:04):
infrastructure there anymore andit is a shame.
Yeah, it is. It's it's scary.
I mean, they like called studiosand places like that.
There used to be bands playing alot down there and things and
the venue and and these are all they're all gone now.
And it's just it's really, really sad.
And the whole thing around that is sad, but I think that that's
it. You do.

(15:24):
I mean, it's not that I don't think, I don't arts don't miss,
they don't mess us up with theircircuit.
But Glasgow definitely I think gets a, a bigger, a bigger share
really. I mean, it's really exciting
talking about that in terms of like next, you know, this year
for example, was amazing becauseyou've got obviously Frank
Turner's doing his lost eveningshere in Edinburgh.
The Corn Exchange was just a phenomenal choice for him

(15:47):
because generally we would expect that to happen in
Glasgow, but for it to be Edinburgh is amazing.
It's really, really good. So it's good that artists like
that are still choosing to hold their bigger gigs sort of here.
But yeah, there's a huge change in it.
Before we start, move on, because I really want to ask you
lots of, I mean, I love talking about music and stuff, but you

(16:07):
both have like a sort of favourite Edinburgh band from
growing up there. We both got we got a different
answer to this. Edinburgh Band.
Oh, from grown up. Or just, I mean, obviously
you're not, you can't, you know,can't say one of your own acts,
but like, you know why? Not, oh God, on the spot.
On the spot. I know I didn't prep you for

(16:28):
that one, but I just for. That one, no, I think probably
they're not. I don't.
Oh God, that's really because now Broken Records, they're not
an older Edinburgh bands, but they're an Edinburgh brand and
they've been going around for a long time.
They're phenomenal. They're such an amazing live act
and Jamie's vocal was just beautiful.
I think the last time we've seenthem was that last year.

(16:50):
Last year they done Box, Box hadthem headline and I think it was
last year was that last. Year when we had them last.
Thing last I did have them, but box box also had them on record
store day and but they just theyare and we've seen them up at
summer Hall a few times as well,but they are phenomenal.
And again, that's like, no, that's like over the last few
years, but the list is endless. I mean, we were promised jet

(17:12):
packs. You can you just you've got to.
So I mean there's loads and loads that are now, but sort of
the growing up and I'm stuck on.Jet packs.
Well, we kind of touched on the sort of infrastructure not being
there anymore for music and stuff.
But like I know you sort of launched Black Hole, was it 2010
that were kind of like the first?
You know, we're only five years old.

(17:33):
Well, according to business houses, it said about 2010.
So I've been, I've been lied to.10 I'd hope you have done more
releases by that. I know they are slow to get them
out but that's that. That is really slow.
No, no, we're five years old. We're five years old.
In the last five years then I apologise.

(17:54):
What how have you sort of seen the industry change in that time
and stuff since launching? Because like obviously that you
know five years ago in COVID as well, which again we should
probably touch on that, what that was like launched a company
in COVID. But like, what is it, you know,
the change has been in the last sort of five years or what have
you seen? Probably the live site,
obviously coming back from the COVID but getting the back into

(18:15):
the swing of things. But definitely the lie trying to
get tickets sold. I'm sure one that your promoters
and stuff will really having a nightmare and they'll probably
back you up and back me up on this one.
But ticket sales trying to get them out the door 2 weeks
before, a week before and you'restill quite low tickets And then
the day before, the day off the gig.
Wish they just all go what days of panic And with maybe a year

(18:39):
ago or two year ago we've only done half capacity and it's 150
rooms going to be empty by the Friday afternoon.
The promote will come through. We're sold out like Jesus what
why didn't they buy on last weekput us through the stress and
people like then use like black hearts and stuff.
They say they're suddenly it's just all last.
On finding it difficult. Thing it difficult just get the

(19:00):
tickets free, just get together tickets sold early.
So then you know what you've gotand which is why a lot of gigs
are getting pulled and stuff nowpeople are just talking about a
flap and they just they just pull the gig.
So just you're even at capacity for half these gigs, you're
you're near losing money anyway and you're lying on the merch
and T-shirts and stuff just to bump it up.
Oh, it's yeah, it's that's a big, that's probably the biggest

(19:23):
things scene. Yeah, I mean, because we started
in COVID, it's only got better. So that's the one good thing is
that we started it in COVID. So therefore, you know, that's
why we started it because that'swhat we spend all our time doing
is going to gigs. It's it's our thing.
And we were missing it so much and we thought, well, how can we
make, how can we help this when it comes back?

(19:45):
The thought of actually not going a gig again is just like,
Oh my God, there's, there's no words.
And and that's kind of, that wasour plan, wasn't it?
To help to help Scottish bands, to help Scottish artists get
back on track and. Spread the word off how amazing
that scene is because it was so flat on its face.

(20:06):
I mean, with one of the first times we went to see Dictator, I
think we were just about to signone when we were in talking.
I mean, we spent a wee gig out in at Livingston at the Howden
Hall Centre and it was still, itwas COVID restrictions.
So we were all, and if you've ever been in there, it's an
auditorium, the seats like a theatre, like a picture house

(20:26):
and everybody was sitting with the distance in between them.
And it was like it was, we were all sitting there wearing masks
on three feet apart, 2 metres apart.
Sorry. And it was, it was, it was the
more it was the weirdest thing. And of course it was just, it
was heartbreaking. It was probably one of the first
gifts we went after COVID. I think it was really difficult

(20:47):
to see and thought, Oh my God, this is what's happened.
And we really just wanted to make a difference with that.
So to answer the question of thedifference between a start and a
now, it's only it could only ever get better because it was
COVID. It's just, and it definitely
has, but it's still definitely got a hangover from it.
Why do you think the ticket sales are like more last minute

(21:09):
there? Do you think that's a slight
behavioural change for people just not on to commit to things
or is it also just because big artists, you know, you'll book a
ticket for a big artist that's £90 and it's really expensive,
so you just can't really afford to go out as much.
So it's maybe more an impulsive decision.
Yeah, totally. I think there's a lot of that.
I think there is definitely. And I do think, I mean at the

(21:30):
moment, obviously there's and for the last few years there has
been a across the living crisis.And I think a lot of people,
they don't realise as well, not everybody knows that actually
you can get out and not spend that much.
You don't have to spend a lot ofmoney to come and enjoy live
music at a lot of our grassrootsvenues in the city, whether it's
Edinburgh or Glasgow or any other city or town across

(21:52):
Scotland. You can do that fairly
reasonably now. But I think because people are
looking after their pennies maybe a little bit more, there
may be less likely to take a take a bit of a stab in the dark
and maybe going to see someone they've never known before
because it's not an option just to spend money like that.
Do you know what I mean? It's just kind of, there's a lot

(22:13):
of that maybe as well and which effects our level of artists
massively. It was definitely.
But yeah, the bigger, I think the idea of going off peace but
staying on a little bit is the idea.
I can't remember what the figurewas, but if he posted it again
and again, it was Frank Turner that I'd done it.
You know, a pound to every gig that you've applying for, every

(22:37):
ticket you've sold. And it's like for him alone,
this the amount of something like 18 and a half, 1000 lbs for
one gig. And it's like, well, actually
why? Why, you know, if everybody was
doing that, then it would make an absolute that, you know,
would make such a massive difference.
And I think that would definitely help.
But I do think that, yeah, if you are paying a wee bit more,

(22:58):
maybe they could give a wee bit back.
You know, people might feel likethey're doing and getting more
for their money then. It's a strange one because
obviously as well like streaming, there's less album
sales now as well, right? That's what's a big factor.
So you have to charge more for tickets kind of get that to an
extent. But then you know what, who I'm
trying to think what the sort ofbigger gigs I've maybe booked
recently, like Chapel Room for example.
I got a Chapel Room ticket for the summer.

(23:20):
It's not terribly expensive, butstill like I think it's like £70
or something. It still feels like quite a lot
of money. Like as you say, you could
probably see like a smaller gig in a smaller venue for maybe 20
quid, £15. You could probably see like 5
gigs, but you're spending £70 onone ticket.
You're just like, well, you know, I can't, I can only afford
to do that gig, you know, then. And then like, you know, other
people you love announced tourism before, you know, you

(23:42):
could easily have spent two £300on like 3 gigs and that you see
a kind of budget for the year like on Music Gone.
So it's really tricky. If the top artists are charging
that much, as you say, and there's not that reintroduced,
you know, reinvestment into smaller acts and venues, then
it's like, yeah, spoils it for the rest.
Yeah, exactly. Have you guys sort of got any

(24:02):
ideas of how they could combat that apart from the this sort of
pound thing or? I mean, I mean, it's not really
rocket science. I think some of them are
completely, I mean, some of themare just completely ridiculous.
I mean, we, we will go from, I mean, whether it's in Sneaky
Pete's or it's in the Emirates Stadium down in London, we'll

(24:26):
go, you know, if it's a band that we want to see, we'll go to
it and we'll probably pay the price to do that.
But it's, I do think it would mean a lot more, I think, but I
think the idea of putting this sort of little sort of tax if
you like, but I'd like to call it that so that these bigger
acts are preparing. I think it's like the best idea
we've heard in a long time. Other than that, it really is

(24:50):
it's, it's, it's hard, I mean. It's hard, you can just look at
how much the bands are plugging their gigs on their socials and
mailing lists and everything just to know.
Maybe we pick it update on the the week before and then you can
tell them they have the social. It's really hard to try and get
it going again. So they're trying really hard to
bands and as we. Really, really do.

(25:11):
We do everything, the bands are played now, the gigs are
upcoming gigs, we all hit it pretty hard as well.
So is you just keep it in the limelight and just keep it fresh
in the minds of the band. Hopefully just somebody will
describe by that I can go and ifit's only 12 quid, £30, it's not
like you say you can get to if you exit at that sort of price

(25:34):
and you're getting a nice entertainment.
And then that's without the sortof artist even making a real
amount, a huge amount of money either.
Like, I mean, yeah, I didn't. Well, no, they very rarely do.
They very rarely do, that's the thing.
It's quite often. For the Mercedes, how many
T-shirts did you do? I mean, they put on a, we put on
a showcase and for our third birthday, another 3 bands

(25:54):
playing. It was absolutely phenomenal.
We played the caves, we packed it out and it it was a showcase,
but all the the three bands never, never took any money for
it and all the proceeds went Tiny changes.
Now, the reason we were able to give the tiny changes is because
people that we've got to know that the bands work with calling

(26:17):
the noise during the during the noise Sam on the lights because
these people looked after us on the night and it was our first
showcase and their kindness and their support for those bands
and the scene. We were able to donate
something. We were all be all.
We were able to donate a really reasonable amount, tiny changes,
but we could only do that because they professionals were

(26:41):
able to do it a reasonable cost.I get it that everyone's got to
make money. It shouldn't be it shouldn't
actually be that we're relying on people doing things for a
reasonable cost. They should be allowed to charge
what they're they're they're worth.
These people are worth their weight in gold.
They're magicians. They're absolutely phenomenal in
what they do, but they they shouldn't have to cut in order

(27:03):
for whether it's us doing a showcase or a band playing in
order for people to break even. You know, it shouldn't be that
way. There should be, and I'm not
sure. Again, I'm not sure how you
combat that, but we need the ticket sales in order to do it.
They all need the ticket sales. That's it.
And it's really, it's really difficult.
It's really difficult for bands putting on shows, particularly

(27:24):
at our level. Yeah, and this was the other
side to this as well. You touched on that, like
pushing stuff on social media and stuff.
Social media is now a huge part of music and promoting artists
and stuff. And I know from interviewing
Dictar Waverly, like I asked them about this, like, how do
you draw a presence online and stuff?
Have you had to learn that as a label as well as that's
something you're, you know, going to figure out?
Yeah. I mean it's the one thing we're

(27:45):
all, we've all grown. Dictator were the first band
that we signed and we said that from the start about like
learning together, which we've done.
Yeah, nothing to have been good at the social probably as you
know, they're really good at thecontent.
And so it was one of the things that sort of attracted us to
them as well. We source, take it back.
So if we spot a wee band or we artist or anybody like that, we

(28:06):
we sort of like OK, and we keep an eye on what they sort of do
and how committed they are to just doing stuff and but not too
much stuff that's on. It's getting the balance right.
And they were they were good. They were good because we
started during COVID time and stuff.
They were they were, they were coming up with good stuff and
like, I was like, check these boys out there.
They're pretty they've got something going on here.

(28:27):
Yes. So we've had to start to learn
ourselves because we are really on Instagram and whatnot where
we believe that. I think maybe our personal
accounts, but more just for following bands and keeping up
to date with things that are going on more than knows
actually uploading and doing a bit of content herself.
But then yeah, now obviously theTwitter thing was more bigger
when we started Which? They're less popular.

(28:51):
But yeah, so and it's certainly,yeah, we do.
We sort of keep a wee eye. If you see somebody, we keep
trying to see what they're, see what they're up to and how fresh
and new ideas and stuff they areand how they sort of do their do
those things because we're not going to do it for them.
No, we can't. We can't.
And I think The thing is as wellis that it's important because,
and all three bands are very good at this.

(29:12):
And there's always there's always members of bands that
lead it, members in bands that lead it.
But I think, you know, dictator are a really good example, but
Waverly in midnight ambulance Millie tends to mode after the
socials Midnight and and Waverly.
I think that is probably a bit acombination of the Margaret, but
again, I think it's that they'remore knowledgeable and I think

(29:36):
as well when you're depending onwhat your day job is as well
helps in that sort of area. So I think that helps them
because, you know, they are, youknow, a bit more involved there.
But it is important because without that presence nowadays
there is very, very it's, it's important, as Marty says, to get
that balanced right. And we don't have the, we're not

(30:00):
Sony and we don't intend to be Sony or any other for major
labours labels are out there, but we, we won't ever have the
time to be able to do that. So it's important that our bands
are doing it because a lot of the time when they do things as
well, they'll, they'll, they'll bring us into it and they'll
make us cool and ours. And we'll jump on and make sure
that we're reposting everything that they're doing.

(30:21):
So they're getting double hits as well.
You know, I mean, yes, some of the people that follow them will
follow us and it will be a duplication, but at the same
time it definitely helps. I think just that a little bit
extra for them, just that littlebit of anything we can do to
push them a bit further, then we'll do that.
No, it's of course, it's really important.
And as you say, like Twitter, I remember when I first followed

(30:43):
Dictator as well, like that, wasthere something they used a lot
was Twitter. And then obviously that it
changes so often that band and stuff as well.
I wanted to, let's go back to when the you started the label.
It was obviously 2020. You're talking about that.
Why did you decide to start thislabel That what were the sort of
reasons behind it? Because I mean, starting a
record label from scratch not the easiest like thing to do is.

(31:05):
It's not like a process, a way to make money.
Quickly that we started, didn't we?
Yeah, I'll let you after that. What was that?
Why did we start? Yeah, why?
Why did we start? Well, again, it was like, yeah,
and we were missing live. And as we were working out how
we could do our bit to sort of help revive that and mainly the

(31:27):
Scottish scene, you know? And a lot of this with scene
bands back before they were famous and then they come
through and I got seen them supporting whoever 2-3 years
ago. Could you imagine if like it'd
be label and you signed them andlike you're saying you discover
them Just that kind of thing wasquite are always in the back of
my mind to get it going. And then that's kind of where

(31:48):
sports go in like this. We idea.
So it's like it's like he would maybe Calvin B he was breaking
through and I was like somebody like Calvin B be quite cool.
Find him like playing in the streets.
I could this busking away. Scott's like I kind of know I'm
going to speak to him. No, he's already done.
He's already on his way, but getthem back, get them back further

(32:08):
back. So we ended up it's like hitting
the wind up with like open mic nights and stuff like that.
We've not been for a while. We do what we spell.
We're just just trying to find just a wee wee jam.
That's and just to just to help push it through if you can find
out. That's we got dictator.
That, so far, sounds gig. Super sounds and what they were
actually doing is they were onlya couple 100 followers I think

(32:31):
at the time and they were like, if we forget over the 200, the
300 will follow another dictator.
Who do we follow? And then the So I followed them
and then they sent me a wee private message.
Thanks for phoning a phone and following.
And then after they were actually outside selling the
tickets for the next gig. These boys are like they're
grafters. These boys are definitely.
They've got something going on here.

(32:52):
Just there's just a little things they were doing that was
just. Plus Michael's voice was
absolutely incredible. We're like, that was a sort of
stripped back here in a lake andI saw for science was is.
Yeah, it's really pulling away. It sounds.
The first thing obviously was just say he in the just a whole
band were they're a bit banned or they're all quite having a
laugh and that sort of dictator way that we see.

(33:15):
You see today it's exactly the same.
It's not mature from the slightest, but then I'm and I'm
in a good way. They're all like getting married
and having children and stuff. But they're they're still the
dictators that we met. I've seen dictators because
that's not the name of the band is dictator, but given that they
were talking about them individually.
And I spent hours striking the Paris looting with them and
definitely not changed. No good.

(33:36):
Fun, but it's but yeah, I think that as you're saying, like
that's it was all that that kindof need to start the the the
lack of life and what could we do to help that?
And I mean, we've seen dictator though before.
That was actually before COVID. It was February and COVID came
in March. But remember, right, and we

(33:57):
watched them and then then we got in contact with them later
on that year, wasn't it? And that's when.
So we actually watched them for quite a long time before we
approached them because we didn't have the label at that
point just to that was so complete coincidence.
Yeah. Yeah, we're just straight up.
So we're in this new label. Music enthusiasts, whatever

(34:17):
Scott Musician just she was havea wee chat and the boys went
yeah so the chat and then. We've brought them.
Together these and then various trips and.
All the way an arrogant. Style craziness and like gigs
wee gigs yeah it's been it's been a good adventure it
definitely has enjoying it all we.

(34:38):
And with the other two acts and stuff as well of is that also is
that similar how that all came about or does it just all sort
of happen in its own organic wayas well?
Well, again, I think so. I think our next one was
Midnight Ambulance and Scott happened to be sitting in an
airport with Fraser. Fraser didn't know that Scott
was involved, had his own recordlabel and happened to, I think

(35:00):
there was a conversation and Wendy watched this back.
Forgive me who I've got this a bit wrong, but my recollection
is that it was what you do when you get back home.
We do want to get back home. And Fraser happened to say that
he was in this band because theyworked together away, but there
was no chat about bands. And Scott was like, you know,
all right, who's that then? And what's that?

(35:20):
And then Scott said, I've got something to share with you
because this is our thing. We must all agree, we must all
like and agree that we, we have a, we've got a feeling about a
band or an artist. We've got to agree on all that.
If all three of us don't agree, then it's not a goer.
It has to be all three of us agreeing.
So he's like, I really like all sent over and he sent over.

(35:41):
It was actually a video for smoking sweets by midnight
Ambulance. And it's phenomenal.
And we just looked at, I remember we were in this room
and put on the laptop and then touristed like that.
And he was like, Oh my God. So that's how that came about.
So we, we signed midnight ambulance and again, they're
just great people and they're lovely.

(36:02):
And then we went on Sprint to release their, their first DP
and they've just released a single not that long ago as
well. Again, freezer.
But both have the all of our, all of our artists have full
time jobs outside. Some of them are involved in the
music industry, some not. One or two of them, most of them
in other jobs. But Theresa is one that works

(36:24):
and as he's a, as part of another, as a children family
elsewhere. So they've had their single out
recently. But that's how we got them.
And then Waverly was first footing and we got them first
footing on the 1st of January. They're part of Edinburgh's
company. That's where you'd seen, you'd
heard of them, that we've made aplan to see them.

(36:46):
Yeah, we went up to see them when it was a big strip back set
with them, Donnie and you and the two singers and they were
phenomenal. Just just with those two and
then we. And I tried to sneak back and
they put a sofa in Edinburgh. So sneak in.
I'll just call myself as soon asI walked in you and was just
like waving at me, I thought. So it was shortly after that

(37:06):
that he shared their work with us, more of their work with us,
wasn't it? They just try it.
We sort of just finished it. So they admit the ambulance
release almost. Then they were just like, well,
we've got pretty much everythingready to go and whatnot.
It would just be good to believethat label back in to get things
get things just pushed and rightgot sent over and again it was
the usual with Christina Wilson in age what they let's send it

(37:29):
to Scott loved it. I was like well, three boxes
were protected. I really loved it.
I was about my fan already as well.
So this sort of sounded golf is just out my street.
Yeah, it was say came on with them as well.
It's been great. But they've released obviously
their second record as well. All our bands have released in 2

(37:50):
records with Through US. The short must do something
right. Yeah.
Leads me on excellently to what I want to ask you about next,
which is the records, obviously like what, what what do you guys
do around that? Like because I know obviously
there's been venos for these records and you know, it's
really professional proper. It's like property fees and
stuff as well, which is great. But like how do what, what's

(38:12):
your guys involvements in like the records coming out and like
the actual like getting the music recorded and all that
stuff? It really depends on we as a
label as well We offer. The best way to start describing
this, we offer basically whatever the artist wants.
So if they want us to go througha full sort of campaign with

(38:35):
them where we help back the sortof marketing plan and all that
kind of thing, and the recording, the master and the
production, we can do all that. Or we, the band will do that
themselves and then they will come back.
They'll come back to us with thefinished project and then we
will take on the finished product and we will take it to

(38:59):
the next level. So we'll then take care of all
the production and distribution.And that's generally quite a
more popular choice really, because it means then that the
bands are receiving money back quicker in that respect.
But we, again, you're talking about the sort of just thinking
about this when we're talking about the Scottish scene.

(39:20):
But the Scottish scene, obviously we've talked about
venues and we've talked about music, but actually there's all
these other people that are around that are the Scottish
scene. So obviously in more recent,
more recent times in terms of just to link it in with what
you're asking about the, the records is that when we first
started producing records, therewas no plan for us to use in

(39:42):
Scotland. And an actual fact there was
some like 1 long was the waitinglist.
It's like a six and if not between 6 and 10 months waiting
list, I think it was for final production during COVID.
It was horrific. And press on down in
Middlesbrough, we used them for our first ever pressing and they
were phenomenal. We couldn't fault them.
The people were lovely, they were really helpful.
They were great to work with. And then sea bass opened up here

(40:06):
in Scotland, just down the road in East Lothian.
And the reason we went with Middlesbrough to with press on
in Middlesbrough initially was because we knew that if
anything, it was the closest place to Scotland.
And we knew that if anything went, that anything was wrong
with a timeline, we could get there.
If there was something we neededto get there with A to approve
or to bring home or anything, wecould do it realistically.

(40:31):
And then of course, the wonderful news came that sea
bass for open in East Lothian and sea bass again, Dominique,
just David, Dominique and David have been phenomenal, just great
people, great to work with. We see them at all the same
events, the sea awards and all these things that we go to.
And we're, we're pleased to be working partnership with them.

(40:54):
So they've been producing our our artists work for them as
well. And they do, as you've just said
them come up with a really good quality product for them.
So it's kept, it depends on whatthe artists want, but ultimately
it will always result in a production and a distribution.
It will always result in that. And we do that by working to see

(41:14):
bass. Yeah, I, I've just distribution
work in like terms of an EP and stuff because again, you're
talking about that. There's a way they run straight
inside the axe and the record labels, as you say, which a lot
of people don't realise. And then there's obviously like
in terms of distribution, like Ithink you must have other people
that you have to work with and go through and stuff for all
that. Well, it really depends.

(41:35):
I mean, you, obviously, you're obvious depending on what you're
doing with the record. If you are.
If a band wants to chart, for example, that's a whole
different beast because then you're registered in the chart
company. There's certain law, there's
certain rules and regulations you've got to follow in order
for it to be to to be within those guidelines and make sure.
And they're very stringent. It's very, very, it's very, very

(41:58):
strict. So it just, it all depends on
that. But in terms of, and then again,
who you use can't then there's rules again, without going into
all the Inns and outs, but if someone does want to chart, for
example, we partner with the amazing people asked I because
there are there are retail partners anyway, along with Box

(42:19):
Box Thorn shouted to all those indie records stores who we love
very, very much and we've got great relationships with.
But for example, in the first dictator record we charted and
the the the numbers were phenomenal.
You know, I could reel them all up to you.
They've done so well. But we, the rules and the
regulations around the chart company dictate that that we

(42:42):
have to use another organisation, a third party
organisation to do our distribution for us to make sure
it's above board. So as I but our chosen people on
that occasion and Keith and all the guys over at SI are just
phenomenal. They worked so well and so hard
for us and helped us not only realise a dream but also

(43:03):
dictator by them helping with orthem being responsible for the
distribution, they were able to to chart that first record.
So it just depends on what it is.
Otherwise, we fully take, we take control of the distribution
ourselves. We dispatch all from our
address, we personally stamp kissed like cuddle, hug the

(43:27):
records before they go out. They're personally done by by
our hands, no matter how many there are.
It's mad though, how much that is to.
It just shows you that like if you abandon, you don't have a
lot of money behind you. It's just really hard to get
these things out there and it's a shame charge that a
disadvantage on you. Yeah, yeah.
And you're, you're taking a pun that you're going to sell all

(43:48):
the records first of all. And that is hopefully you'll
find one that will sell your first press and really quick and
you can do a second pressing andyou've still got the pressing
rates while they keep growing and growing and growing on
leaving that first record is kind of work, but you're sort of
open bar. But yes, it is a pun is
expensive. It's not cheap, but the more

(44:08):
numbers you do, obviously cheaper guess.
But then you've got to find the space.
You've got to store stuff to store it, right.
You could just look after your vinyls.
Can't just have them sitting in the attic in the summer,
ridiculous degrees warp. And so you just get, it's just
gonna have space for that. So spare rooms, nice and nice.
It's the right kind of conditions, but it's busy quite

(44:30):
boxes and all the packaging and just so we've got merch boxes we
just grab when we go to a gig. We've got them all ready, got
merch ready. We've got a lot of carry cases
for the vinyls to protect them when we're moving.
It's just, we think for that, you know, just we've got a lot
of lights where we do the match.It just fills the boxes.
It's just space and yeah, it's back to that final.

(44:51):
They are expensive, which is whya lot of bands maybe just do CDs
themself just to run a CDs because they can't afford to do
that. Which where we come in, I can.
If it's the right, right thing, we'll run the final.
But the CDs are sort of when they're not dead, obviously
there's still a some small model.

(45:11):
We sold one the other day and itshouldn't have made these men,
but to write it down. Yeah, we sold one the other day.
We I mean, although saying that as well, we sold, there was a
dictate one sold the other day. Then we sold some from Waverly
over the last couple of weeks while they were when the release
came out of their last one. And again, it's like not all,
not all bands want to do the same thing.

(45:32):
But I think what you've got to remember as well is what's
really important is that for thebands that we work with, we are
really lucky because they're, they've got such amazing
imaginations. These guys and and gals, we are
actually the there, there is a work of art.
And then this is the other thingabout you saying it's really

(45:54):
good quality and all that. These are people who have put
everything in to making these records and it's realising a
dream for them. So for us, it's really important
that when the product comes out and we're all holding it, that
it looks, it looks like something that the Foo Fighters
have produced. It looks like it doesn't look
any different. It looks just as special and it

(46:16):
does exactly that. There's no difference between
the quality. The packaging is beautiful.
But the one thing I was going tosay is that the artwork is spot
on for our three bands. They have their own theme sort
of running through it and there is no doubt about it that a
beautiful sleeve will also, evenif people don't know the band

(46:39):
particularly well, the sleeve will often make people buy it.
And I think that, you know, the the teams have been both, all
three teams are being really, really good at making sure that
they've got these themes runningthrough their their work and
also the coloured vinyl. They've all done coloured vinyl.
And so that also I should, we were down in them on the way

(47:03):
back from Paris with Dictator during the week, sorry, the
weekends. And we had another gig in Luton,
a little sort of a wee festival and a bee sort of.
Yeah, it was a bee festival thing, wasn't it?
A bee multi venue thing? And it was great.
There were lovely people, great people down there.
All your friends it's called andit's brand new.

(47:25):
And they were so kind to us and they were, it was lovely.
And actually I handed the guy the next event.
Luke and I pulled the vinyl and he bit.
Oh beautiful. He was like so excited and
people do they get rid, they love it.
So it's just that having that nice special thing in their
hand, they love all that. So that makes a difference.
A bit thought goes into what what you're producing.
Not just your sounds, but that whole package.

(47:48):
Yeah, and I think a lot of if there's anyone listening they
want to start a band, there's ina band.
It's like having those small details just do can make a big
difference, as you say. Like you know, it just gives you
a unique uniqueness as well, which is nice.
There's a few specific things I want to talk to you about
actually. The first one is AI, which again
to buzz word at the moment. But are you kind of scared about

(48:10):
AI? And it's like a record label
because obviously they it's coming into music.
I mean, there's obviously benefits to everything.
Like, you know, that's weird Beatles song that came out of
the year, so they used to remaster John Lennon's voice and
stuff. And I'm sure like when it comes
to mixing records, there's probably a lot of pros and
stuff. But is it something that worries
you guys? Do you think it's going to
replace music, or do you think it'll be all right?

(48:32):
I think we'll just have a place.You can just sometimes tell on
AI record. It's just polished in.
The harmonies are funny and there's an echo.
Maybe that'll go away. Maybe it'll sort, that'll get
better. But you can just tell just it's
just something about it comparedto just an actual band.
Band. But you're right.
Like we should be seeing McCartney.

(48:53):
When was that? Last year, Yeah.
And the they've done the Lenin song.
OK, he's got a place that's pretty cool.
But yeah, I think generally. Singing along with them.
Yeah, yeah. But it's not too we'd see.
But it's it's that's a hard question.
It's a hard question because youdon't know how it's going to how

(49:14):
it's going to pan out. I think it's more a worry.
It's think it's more a worry. We have our we have our place in
the industry working with our artists, but I worry more about
the artists because they don't get enough.
It's already bad enough with royalties and the very little
that they get paid for all for all that, let alone something

(49:35):
coming along and imitating theirwork and they've been ripped off
even further. That really hurt, that really
upsets me. But it's not just them, it's all
these other people that we previously spoke about, about
when you're putting on a show orwhether you are creating a fraud
where you're creating your record.
You need producers, you need engineers, you need all this.

(49:57):
And it's all of that. And that worries me.
But that that's just me as a person.
That's just the like, it's just me wanting to look after them
all. You know, it's, I just worry
about the more the impact on them.
Yeah, it's got its place. It's got its place for, you
know, we get lots and lots and lots of demos through lots.

(50:19):
And, you know, someone sent through one actually came from a
friend of ours, went into someone's house to do a job.
Turned out the girl, she had a sleeve on their wall.
Turned out she was a musician. She shared some work with us and
it was fabulous, but she'd done it at home.
Now she wouldn't have been able to do it at home.

(50:40):
She's clearly someone who has nothing behind her, has done
nothing yet. But you wouldn't be able to do
that kind of stuff at home without AI.
It's there's a little bit of a place, but when it comes to
actual, I guess for that bedroomthing and fine, there is, there
is a place for it there. And I think it's there.
There's maybe a bit of a positive in helping people start

(51:03):
to see what they might want to sound look like.
But then further down the line when people are supposed to be
making money from it and then it's meant to, they're trying to
make a living out of it. It's almost impossible already
with that. We don't need an additional an
additional layer to that. Yeah.
No, completely, completely agree.
And I think it's what what's worrying us across the creative

(51:24):
industries, you know, and where I work in telly and stuff, it's
like Jimmy, it's really tricky as it has like we don't need
another don't need it even more people there to like make less
jobs and stuff. So yeah, it's a it's a weird
one. No, you can't touched on it
there. You're talking about like a
young artist, young female artist making music.

(51:44):
But somebody else wanted to touch on was like, you know,
women in the music industry, because I've watched that.
I've completely blanked the nameof the documentary, but it was a
Scottish documentary about female bands that came out over
in a year. And I thought it was really
interesting watch. And it's sort of talking about
how like it's just underrepresented, especially in
Scotland. But I think it's a music wide
problem. And I'm I'm Christine.

(52:05):
I feel like you probably speak best at the service.
But like, what do you guys thinkabout like women in the music
industry? And like, do you think it's got
better or do you think there's still a lot of work on that to
do? I think it would be nice to know
what your opinion is as well because we talk about this quite
a lot. I think there is a lot of work
still to be done and I think thelast thing that I read it was

(52:29):
across the board of the UK festivals even this year.
Don't completely quote me on this, but it was still 63% of
them were were male were were male bands.
It is actually, and it wasn't that the other 30 odds were

(52:50):
represented by females. I think only 21% were female
solo arctists or bands. That's still too small.
And I think that in terms of, you know, we for example, in a
really small label, we have Millie on our label as part of

(53:11):
Goodnight Ambulance. And my God, is she.
She is amazing at what she does.And I know there's lots of other
artists out there like that. And we look all the time for
artists and we're often looking out for female artists.
And it's not that there are nonebecause there are lots, but it's
for us as a really small label, getting people at the right

(53:33):
level is important. So but we equally will not just
plug a hole. So whatever our bands, as I like
to see, we on flip the little wings and they fly off to bigger
and better things. We're not just going to plug it
with a with a another similar band.
That's the opposite of what we do.
We'd still be fighting and looking for that perfect female

(53:54):
artist because we don't have Millie as our she leads
midnight. However we could do, we could do
with more of that in other areasof the industry.
I personally find it. I do.
I do find it challenging on occasion and I do find it sadly

(54:17):
that despite perhaps introductions being made and I'm
one of the people in the group, I'm trying to choose my words
carefully here, that I'm still, I can quite sometimes often be
ignored in a group. People will bypass me and go
straight to the male representative of said group and

(54:38):
it's infuriating. It's absolutely infuriating and
I think there's no need for it. But I think there's lots of
people that are doing really well.
I think. Rosie Watson, sorry to Rosie,
it's Watson isn't Rosie's surname who works Kingdom.
She has just made it on to the she has just made it onto the

(55:00):
music managers. And what's the proper title for
that? God, I can't remember.
But anyway, she's just she's she's this young Scottish woman
and she's an up and coming manager working with some
amazing. She manages the big day and
she's doing really, really well for herself and it's great.
She's done lots of other things.She's not new into the industry.

(55:21):
She's a clever, intelligent, remembered experience.
But it's nice to see people, which is quite often can be, but
mainly male, male based, a lot of male faces in there.
And it's good to see women making that representation,
especially, especially from here.
But it can be challenging. It remains challenging.
There's lots of work to be done and there's lots of attitude.

(55:42):
There's still a lot of attitudesto change.
I think. I don't know.
I don't know how you see it. Like when we're in situations,
social situations. Can be advanced and stuff.
And this is Christine. This is my bad call.
And then they'll just start talking to me and I'm the quiet
one. They should probably noticed by

(56:04):
the line. They just presume it's my me.
How's the label and how's the label?
That she's been doing most of itthe last couple of months.
Maybe speak to her. Yeah, it's a wee bit kind of
like that. You just get that, that vibe,
which I can see why it's frustrating.
It's difficult. Is it, It's definitely well in
the industry. It's it's pretty, pretty rice

(56:24):
stone, yeah. Hopefully well, but you know, on
the same breath though, I have to say I've also got to say that
there are lots and lots of amazing male figures in the
Scottish industry that absolutely support females.
And I hope to say, you know, it's we've been really lucky to
be around some amazing people that have got lots of

(56:46):
experience. And I'm just trying to thank
Richard Muirhead, Tam Coyle, JT and he helps with a lot.
There's a Scott Kirkwood and these are all people who offer
us the have offered to, you know, they help me with advice,
offering to mentor me, you know,and I think that's amazing when

(57:09):
I'm approaching people and saying things, you know, before
I started getting involved with management, for example, with
dictator, I would say to people,talk to them about that
situation. And you know, the likes of
Scott, for example, Kirkwood, I remember we were in Texas with
them. We had to go all the way to
Texas and that's where we sat and spoke.
We didn't just meet for coffee here and at South by and he's
like, I'll probably bent for you.

(57:29):
I can help you with that. And it's that it's that that's
what you need. You need people.
You want people to to be supporting and showing that
they're welcoming you in that way.
And I think that's really important.
And I have that little bit. The start when you ask the
question is the negative. But actually there are, there's
lots of positives. There's lots.

(57:50):
And we're surrounded by lots of amazing people.
It'll always be the minority that the attitude needs to
change a little bit. But I think we're generally, I'm
generally, I say we because it affects the whole label.
It's not just me, you know. So, yeah.
I think as you say, it's it's vital in all aspects of the

(58:11):
creative industries that you just need people to put the
ladders down behind them and offer advice to people coming
up. And I think you need that more
than ever, especially in grassroots music where there's
no money and it's a bloody hide for working class artists in
particular to have a chance. Yeah, and you can't afford these
artists as well. It's not there there.
There's not pots of money to be able to pay people.

(58:33):
So actually you're relying. So if I'm coming in as a
manager, any of us are doesn't matter what our gender is, we're
coming in as a manager. You need you need people that
that are in the know to offer todo things like mentor you that
they're not expecting. I think some of money for you.
They're just want to be helpful.They just want to help.
Again, they're just trying to help the scene and it is, it's

(58:56):
really, it's really important. And like I say, thankfully we've
seen a lot of that If we've beenreally, really fortunate that
we've seen more people wanting to help us than not.
And really? Well, I know we've been speaking
for nearly an hour. It always goes so fast, probably
more if we include the technicalissues when it start.
I've thought to wrap things. I've got a couple more
questions, but one of them is just like what is what?

(59:16):
What is your guys sort of plans for the next few years?
Have you got like any big goals?Do you want to try and get
another artist on the label and stuff like that?
Like what's coming up? Yeah, definitely keep looking.
Definitely get another, another,yes.
But I mean, because we push too much into each artist.
We don't want to just end up with like 10/15/20.
You just, we just couldn't do what we do is there's just not a

(59:37):
chance. I mean, let's just say last
weekend that was Paris and this weekend it's Waverly, Sterling,
Paris, all that. So your weekend's gone just like
clock of the fingers, it's gone.So we're sort of stable.
We've got space. If we could just find out just
that that we lost. So artists, that's kind of where
we'd end just sort of find them maybe 1-2 song Spotify, just

(59:58):
both not a lot of labels after what your what your tick tock,
what's your thing? What's your Instagram followers?
What's that like? No, we want them way back.
Like down there. I played an open mic last night.
I tried this song sort of sort of level.
And then even if it takes a year, 2 years before they can,
they're ready to release. We're cool with that.
We've always said that taller isif you're no pressure, if you're

(01:00:20):
not happy, don't. We're not going to appreciate to
like do anything out. That's kind of we've done it in
the dictator were like that. We bit for the Rubix.
It's not ready yet. That's cool, Michael, it's fine.
No pressure. Just take your time.
It's like there's another six months.
There's there's it's not like a loose Capaldi situation.
You need to get this out and you're going to be having a
total stress. You know, it's we just got a in

(01:00:43):
that's so they've always sort ofall ours to be quite thankful
for them. They just.
Yeah, well. I think that they've learned
from, you know, recent the last couple of years, there's
obviously been a bit of press about, you know, the pressures
that are on people and there's never been our intention.
And that's, you know, it goes way back.
You know, I don't really want togo on.

(01:01:05):
It's like names and stuff, but about artists and how they can
and how they found it difficult to handle the pressures.
And we've always said that it's that's the opposite of what we
want to do because we're in it for the love of it and we and we
want them to enjoy it and we want them.
And it's just nice watching themall grow.
But I think as you're saying, I think, you know, the sort of

(01:01:26):
plans for for Black Hall, yeah, it's to find other artists.
But we do that again, like we'reseeing, you know, through, you
know, the likes of sort of so far and again for scooting and
being at the being at gigs for the the bigger gigs being at
them, not even bigger gigs, any gig for openers and seeing who's
playing and secret someone we can pick up.

(01:01:48):
And in actual fact, it's the smaller gigs that will give us
them 'cause they're right at theright level for us.
And then we have people like JimGetley and Uncle Victoria, who's
been amazing. He's a massive supporter.
Big shout out to Uncle Victoria Galloway there and just, you
know, supporting our bands and playing their music, but also
playing the music of others thatwe can then go, oh, who's that?

(01:02:10):
Oh, you know, and PVC introducing our goods for that.
They've also been amazing at supporting our bands also.
So it's we will keep we'll keep up with all.
We're always looking, always looking no matter where we are,
what we're doing. So that is the plan is that we
will grow and it's always our intention that, like I was
saying earlier on, that we unclip the wings off them, our

(01:02:32):
artists one day because they've reached the point that it's
time. And then if we from when that
happens, it means that we succeeded in everything that we
set out to do, which is, you know, the ultimate goal.
No, it's brilliant. It's really exciting as well.
And I should say you put a lot of work into your artists as it

(01:02:52):
is. You can't just I think sometimes
companies grow too fast, don't they as well and then they end
up that that's the problem is also suggest a tricky balance
and to thanks for answering that.
I get the other question I want to ask you is just like what the
biggest sort of lesson use of learnt so far from from running
a record label for the last fiveyears?
What's your biggest? Lesson, you're going to lose a
lot of sleep, you know, a lot. Yeah, that was for sure.

(01:03:15):
And biggest lesson? Yeah.
I don't know, biggest lesson, biggest lesson, I don't know if
it's the biggest lesson. I don't know if this really
answers the question well, but Ithink is that putting the artist
at the forefront of everything you're doing is, I guess it is a
lesson because we didn't know itin the Star.
It was always our intention. Everything we do is always in
favour of our artist. It will never be anything other

(01:03:37):
than that. I think that in order to make
sure again, it goes back to thembeing very, you know, people
work these these artists workinghard on producing this work and
making sure that you can do the best that you can to make to for
them to be happy and actually ecstatic with the what whatever

(01:04:00):
they're putting out. I think it's just it's important
that I think we've learned that it's to allow them to go at not
at their own pace. It is at their own pace and not
they're not taking the piss at all.
None of our bands do that. But I think that actually we
got, we've learned to to get a really good balance with them

(01:04:21):
and we have a really good relationship with them.
We're we're in tune with them and I think they're actually
important. So I think that's probably, you
know, having a good relationshipwith the bands and being part of
the wider team. Not only is it exciting for you,
it's essential. You can't just come in and go

(01:04:42):
I'm the label, you know, and like, you can't do that.
It's just what people do. But you can't it's it doesn't
work very well. It's not good.
Look, so I think that putting the artists at the forefront is
the biggest lesson, is probably the biggest thing we'd see.
But that's fine because that wasalways an intention.
Really. I don't know if it really
answers that question, but, and they'll always be Dicks, but

(01:05:02):
they'll always be absolute angels as well.
And I don't mean artists, I meanjust in general that and that
goes back to the way that peoplereceive you and approach it or
don't. And I think there's a big
problem in the music industry. There's always the stereotype of
like the evil record companies in there, which is nice way, you
know, people like yourself are actually.
I mean, I know, I know there'll be lots of lovely people working

(01:05:23):
in music that love it and care about it, but I think, yeah,
there is a bit of that still. Yeah.
Yes, there's a big bit of that, isn't it?
And you can see, you can see that a lot, though, even when
you go to things like South Bay,it's quite funny, depending on
what events you go to, you can see a shift in the attitude of
people. I'm not mentioning in any names,
which kind of makes this point pointless, but you just see the

(01:05:45):
shift and you think, I do what? I did not want to be that
person. You're just there for the
laminated pass and not for anything else.
Getting deep down and getting your hands dirty and you know,
been sweating down down the front and standing side ready to
support your artist. You know it's not not cool.
No, and unfortunately every industry attracts sometimes

(01:06:07):
those personalities. But to say very one of the sort
of other last questions for you is just mental health.
We talked about on the podcast all the time.
I would have you guys stayed thesame, being, you know, married
and running a company together, but also just being in such a
stressful industry. I mean, it's, I think, I think
it can be challenging, but we dohave, we obviously do have,

(01:06:31):
well, we don't obviously. But as I pointed out earlier, we
all have our day jobs, don't we?So we're not in each other's
pockets all the time. But I think, I think it's
probably just our love for doingit that actually makes it work.
I think if we don't, if we didn't have the equal love that

(01:06:52):
we do for it. And equally bringing Scott into
this marriage. Scott has a lovely wife, by the
way. And, but even bringing Scott and
I think we're all, we're all quite different people.
You and Scott are kind of quite similar, I think.
Yeah, I think it just works because we all see things from a
different angle. We've all got different opinions

(01:07:14):
to bring. We agree on a law.
But then also as well, it's quite good if you're feeling a
bit angsty about something by saying it out loud to Marty,
even if he doesn't have the answers spotlight or vice versa,
don't maybe find the by sharing and speaking works.
It works a treat. I think that's why it works.

(01:07:35):
I think we just the love of it and they're just making sure
that we all understand what you know, we all understand where
we're at with everything. Just again, to fly to listeners,
the links to your website and the company and all the bands
under the podcast and you know, as I said, Red Wave alone the
other week. So if you haven't listened to
that, go and check out that episode.

(01:07:55):
And we've had Dictator on free time.
So how we scroll back further for the archives.
You can find more there. But yeah, who are some of the
other artists in Scotland that you maybe want to quickly or
just in the UK? It doesn't have to necessarily
be just be Scotland. Where's my voice?
Instead they're like lacuna. We also deserve thought.
You people believe so these sortof artists at the moment are

(01:08:15):
good that our good friends. Constant follower used to really
well the cow. The.
Last album was great and then you've got like no windows.
You're really the killing it as well at their latest.
The ACP was amazing. There's just there's just so
much out there. It's just with love to like just

(01:08:36):
have all that, but it's just couldn't.
But it's there's not Scorch seeds great and it just keeps
producing some. Quality tackling and you thought
the Lexus that you know swim swim school world disco these
are bands are obviously startingto do phenomenal things.
But these are bands as well. You know we've seen swims world

(01:08:57):
disco South by Southwest in 2022and there are currently two in
the states. They're doing phenomenal things.
Swim school are going from strength to strength to strength
again. They're great, amazing people
and it's just great just to see these artists just just breaking
through and just just doing their thing.
It's just phenomenal. It just, it's really, it's

(01:09:19):
heartwarming and it's exciting for all the arts that we work
with and and will work with in the future.
Great. Well, Christine, my thank you
very, very much for your time. As I say, like I'm a massive fan
of your artists that you have onyour label and you know,
Dictator particularly, like I'vegot a massive connection to this
podcast and it's really nice forme to see them grow over the
last few years and stuff. And you know, it's lovely to see

(01:09:40):
your company, you know, at the forefront support and all, you
know, local artists and stuff. And we'd, you know, we do need
people like yourself to championpeople in the creative industry.
So thank you very much for your time on the podcast.
That's great to finally get you on.
I know we've been talking about this for nearly two years, which
is insane, but I'm glad we finally made it happen.
So thank you very much both. Yeah, thanks for having us and
we're sorry that Scott can't be with us.

(01:10:02):
But perhaps, perhaps another time, but.
Lots more about music dancer, soI'm sure, but thank you very
much guys. I really appreciate.
It cheers.

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EP. 181 - 'Inside An Indie Record Company' with Blackhall Records

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP. 181 - 'Inside An Indie Record Company' with Blackhall Records