Taking Care of Business with Jackie Karapetyan

On today's episode of the Justice Team Podcast, Bob is joined by Jackie Karapetyan to discuss being involved in the inner workings of your firm. Learn about how tracking, relationships with clients, and even Christmas cards can be the key to success and getting the best results in your firm. 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Bob:

(00:01):
Welcome to this episode of the Justice Team podcast on the Justice Team Network. And today we have the privilege of talking to the master of operations. Jackie from JT Legal is going to take us from when a client calls or clicks or messages-
Jackie:
Initial call.
Bob:
... initial call, initial contact, all that, how the sausage is made until disbursement. So Jackie, thanks for coming on.
Jackie:
Thank you for having me, Bob. This is amazing.
Bob:
Yeah, so those of you who don't know Jackie, her office is in Glendale. But they operate pretty much nationwide, right?
Jackie:
Correct. We do take on calls throughout nationwide, California, all of it.
Bob:
And prior to being the master operator of JT Legal and running that firm, she comes from the consumer space doing things like the Magic Bullet and took the things that she's learned and brought it to law firms.
Jackie:
Yes. For sure. So I worked for Capital Brands for over 10 years. We started at 25 employees. When I left, we had 500.
Bob:
Wow.
Jackie:
So I was part of the growth from every department, all the way from sales to product liability, all the good stuff. So when you bring in call center type of business into a law firm, it's a different beast.
Bob:
Yeah. And rather than taking this linear, I did an episode yesterday with... You know Henry Pico, right? You know Henry.

(00:22):
Jackie:
Yes, yes, yes, of course.
Bob:
We did episode yesterday, how he does the Pulp Fiction opening, how he starts in the middle, it goes back and forth. We're going to do a little bit of that in this episode, so we're going to fast-forward now. So JT Legal and I've been to your operation, it's super impressive. How many employees do you have now?
Jackie:
Currently, we have over 90.
Bob:
You have a call center.
Jackie:
Correct.
Bob:
Where's your call center?
Jackie:
In Glendale.
Bob:
I've been in your office. It's like-
Jackie:
Separate, yes.
Bob:
Yes. Yeah. So what are the different divisions you have? Because it's very impressive. You ever want to be inspired how to operate a law firm, just tour their office. It's pretty impressive.
Jackie:

(00:43):
So I like to keep it separate. You want to keep the initial call, the intake separate from your pre-litigation, from your litigation, from your paralegals, from your trial attorney, from disbursements and lien negotiations. I'm a firm believer when you have the teams together working as a team, as a group, they're stronger, they're better, they help each other. So I like to keep it separate. So that's when you came into the office. It is completely separate. Suite on the same floor, but completely separate. And that's all they do, which is initial call, give them the best possible service they can give.
Bob:
Yeah. So how many intakes do you think you're doing a day?
Jackie:
Well, we do more or less about 25. We choose if we want to keep them in-house or refer it out, but about 25 if not more.
Bob:
And what's that process look like? I mean as far as who's doing intake, how are you keeping track of all that stuff? I mean, a lot of our listeners, lawyers, aspiring lawyers, business owners, what are some things they could be doing even if they're a solo to help keep track of all these things that you're doing?
Jackie:
Sure, of course. To me, the initial call is the most important call because if you cannot get a client to trust you and to sign up with your firm, then you don't have the business and you don't have a firm. And for our firm, if the call comes in, that client is ours. There's no way around it. My intake is trained to be able to answer the questions, to be that helping hand for the potential clients to feel comfortable and trust that they're in the right hands. They're injured, they're looking for help. So initially whoever's picking up the call is very well-trained. In addition to that, everything is tracked what came in.
Bob:
But how are you tracking all this stuff?
Jackie:
I use different programs. Salesforce is one of my favorite programs to use, not for case management, but for initial intake and signup. I mean, I become a pro with Salesforce, I program it, I make it how I want it. I run whatever I want to see. So it's very easy for me to see from which marketing, how many calls came in, what got signed up, why didn't it, and the most important, why was it not qualified? Because unless you're hands-on and you listen to the call and you have a QA, there's a lot of-
Bob:
Yes. Talk to us about that QA because we had a discussion before. You're not on the phone all the time, but you are able to record and listen to these conversations.
Jackie:
That is correct. So every call is being recorded and monitored by QA, quality assurance. I'm a firm believer that QA is the key to have, especially in initial intake when you have a lot of calls coming in. So QA is a major help.
Bob:
So for your intake, that initial call, is it all Salesforce? Are you doing the QA? What are you doing to run that?
Jackie:
So basically, call comes in, it auto starts to create in Salesforce. At that point, the call's being recorded, monitored and tracked as far as if it's a qualified lead, not qualified lead. Is this a referred out? Is this a VIP? Is this a three star? A one star? So from the initial call, we are already know what we have and how we're going to handle it. So each department, each person has their own workload of how to track it. And most of them, they'll run it by me still.

(01:04):
Bob:
And I've heard these horror stories where you have other people picking up the phone for you within your firm. What's to stop them from getting that call and then referring it out to somebody else and try to steal money from you? It's got to be a part of it, right?
Jackie:
It is part of it. And sadly I have seen it. I am hands-on. Bob, I will randomly pick up calls and listen to them random. And I found some not very fun things that our employees have done, but you get a grip of what people like to do. And so it comes with PI.
Bob:
Yeah. So you have your intake going, everything's auto-populating into Salesforce. If somebody calls, how is it already into your Salesforce?
Jackie:
It pretty much just picks up the initial name if the caller ID has a name with the phone number, and then you auto enter it in the rest, which is email as you're speaking to the client. However, if a call comes in and the call drops, it captures the number already, now you have an entire team working on calling that client back because that one call back can be one of your best cases.
Bob:
And I know you also do this service for other law firms.
Jackie:
One at the time, one of my favorite attorneys, him and I work very close together. So he's the only one that our firm does the initial calls for him and take and routes where it needs to go.
Bob:
And I think that's a lot of lawyers that are listening. You don't have to be great at the business operations side because there's people like Jackie out there and her support, where a lot of busy trial lawyers have other folks handle their intake screening, sometimes even marketing their firm for them and placing where they need to go and say, this is a VIP one, this is probably one you should look at. Or hey, Jackie will tell us, hey, this is one where you probably should refer it out. It's not worth your time.
Jackie:
Correct. And I think the most important is initially understanding what the case is worth and if it has value. I've had cases where no firm wanted the case. I saw something in it. We've brought in 3 million on one. There's another case at the time they're upset that I even signed up that case. We've got 1.8 million on that one. So there's certain things that I see in the case. So my firm and the employees will be like, let's run it by Jackie. She'll probably find some gold in this one. So they'll run it by me and I will say, no, this is referred out. Or I'll say yes. They're like, really? I'm like, just wait and see.
Bob:
But it's funny is when I do that too, sometimes I'll take a case, everybody tells me no, I'm like, I'm telling this a good case and then I'll work harder on it because I would do, I told you so.
Jackie:
You got to prove a point. You picked up a case nobody wanted, now you got to prove a point.
Bob:

(01:25):
Do you do the intake?
Jackie:
Meaning myself?
Bob:
Yourself.
Jackie:
There are times that I've done intake myself. So for example, if a call comes in, great case, and the caller is still thinking about it.
Bob:
So you're like the closer in this situation?
Jackie:
I will be the closer. Bob, at the firm, I'm the janitor, the receptionist, I'm the closer. I will do whatever it takes to get it done. Because at the end of the day, you want it done, you got to do it yourself.
Bob:
And that's what a lot of people like. We joke at our firm that I'm not allowed to do intake because I'll take every single case because I feel so bad for humans. But I think that's what a lot of listeners have to realize is that if you have a system in place, you have to have people trained on it and using it because that's the backbone of your firm.
Jackie:
Of course.
Bob:
Because once that lead is entered into your Salesforce, and I know we're going to get into the next system where it goes. Once those clients are there, that's also another marketing opportunity for in the future. This is it, right?
Jackie:
Definitely.
Bob:
These are things, but it has to be there.

(01:46):
Jackie:
It has to be there. And that's why I like I tell my intake and they're trained to capture every caller. Unqualified, qualified, I need an email address. They called get that information. I'll send happy birthday emails, I'll send gift cards. Merry Christmas. You have this information, why not put it to use?
Bob:
So are you building these automated happy birthdays or Merry Christmases? Are they within Salesforce? You use Salesforce?
Jackie:
Bob, I love Salesforce. Salesforce is one of the best initial marketing sales intake program I've ever used. Case Peer is great for case management, I love it. But Salesforce is everything for me for initial.
Bob:
Yeah. Now let's move over from after, we do the same thing in our firm where there's like the intake part of it and then if it's quasi qualified or whatever, it goes to our next pipeline, right?
Jackie:
Correct.
Bob:
Yours going from Salesforce, what's the next step if it's a qualified case, whether you're referring it out or keeping it, where does it go next?
Jackie:
So if it's being referred out, it doesn't go into Case Peer.
Bob:
It goes to Salesforce.
Jackie:
It gets referred out straight from Salesforce. If it is something we're keeping, Case Peer is created by intake, then assigned to a case manager that knows how to properly manage that case and an attorney as well.
Bob:
And again, being in JT Legal and being the divisions that they have, I mean walk in there and you have everybody logged into, and I could see it into Case Peer. I know their logos, I know what it looks like. And by the way, huge fan of Gabby Kibiro. I know, I mean, Case Peer is fantastic and I could see everybody on their systems from doing demand letters to entering information, and it's just a beautiful system.
Jackie:

(02:07):
It is. I love it. One of the best ones to use. Very easy, friendly, love it.
Bob:
Now both Salesforce or anything built on Salesforce and Case Peer also integrate with Attorney Share, our referral platform, where you can easily track these referrals in and out. So a lot of lawyers don't miss the opportunity. If you have a case coming in, even if it's something you don't do or won't take at your firm, it still might be able to be monetized. And that's why I think it's important to save all this data.
Jackie:
Agreed. Very important.
Bob:
So we move over the Case Peer, your case management software. So explain to us how that operates at your firm.
Jackie:
Okay, so Case Peer is used for basically the entire treatment all the way to, until it's closed disbursement. So basically from initial intake information is entered in. After intake information is entered in, the attorney will call, introduce themselves, including the case manager, and you start to use Case Peer for your treatment, medical records, photos, and the last thing they added, which Bob, you don't understand how happy I was that I don't have to save documents in the drive. Because now Case Peer has its own drive and it's on their cloud, and it saves so much time when you're reviewing a case that you don't even have to go to the drive. Everything's there.
Bob:
Everything's there.
Jackie:
It's beautiful. Very, very easy to use.
Bob:
And that's one of the things when Case Peer got acquired by my case and Affinity paid, allow them to do a lot of these better, more sophisticated things. And again, huge fan of the program. But within Case Peer, you're also able to do all your medical records are living there. Everything is literally in one place.
Jackie:
Everything is in one place. And the most beautiful part is your initial page. When you open Case Peer, you have the client's information on top, critical notes, which is very important. Every time you have a case, there's always a critical note that needs to be added to the case. Be gentle with the client, whatever it is. It's something that whoever is opening Case Peer to help that client automatically knows the critical note of that case.
Bob:
And I even see a picture of the client that you include there, which I love. It makes it human.
Jackie:
Yes, it does. So I always say I need a picture and a PD picture, property damage, because two things very important. So it's beautiful. The first page pretty much tells you the meds, where you are at the case, status. Within two seconds of looking at a case, I already have an idea of what I'm dealing with. Of course you go in and you look at more things, but it's a very, very easy system to use for case management.

(02:28):
Bob:
And I noticed you have two cell phones here. I was like, you're either a drug dealer or you operate a firm.
Jackie:
I left the third one in the car, Bob. I didn't bring the third one. But yeah, definitely you need two phones.
Bob:
Why?
Jackie:
I love to give cell phone number to my VIP clients. I say VIP, the ones that really, really need someone to talk to even after hours. We have a phone system that picks up our calls after hours. But there are certain clients that initially when I talk to them and I make a promise, I like to keep my promise all the way. One thing everybody knows about me is when I say something, my word is everything, Bob. If I make a promise, I'm keeping that promise no matter what. And so if I speak to these clients initially, or if there's any issues they've had and I've taken on to solve their issues, I want to make sure I do it all the way. So if you look at my phone, you will see these clients' names and stars next to it because when I see the stars, I drop everything and I pick up that call, even if it's in the middle of the night. I've talked to clients before their surgeries, after, just making sure they feel okay and they're good.
Bob:
Sounds like customer service is a paramount thing that you do at JT Legal.
Jackie:
I think it's one of the most important things you can do. These clients are injured and they need you, they trust you. So how could you not?
Bob:
Yeah. And then within Case Peer, all the emails are done there, all the negotiations you have with adjusters, everything tracked?
Jackie:
Everything's tracked. I love an email is sent out, it's in Case Peer. Initial offer in Case Peer. So it's very important for me being in operations to look at how the case moved, how fast did it move? How long have we had the case? Did we lose money on the case? Operations wise, at the end of the day, we're all here to help these clients, what's best for the client.
Bob:
But you got to have a business to be able to help them.
Jackie:
For sure. But if you don't track and you don't have a timeframe of how long it's going to take for you to close the case, you're not only hurting the client, you're hurting your firm and everybody else.
Bob:

(02:49):
And do you have KPIs at your firm?
Jackie:
KPI? Sorry.
Bob:
Yeah, it's like you have these revenue markers, things people specifically have to do. So do you have a department that's like they have to hit these certain targets.
For sure. Yeah. So what does it do with, I mean, give us an example of one of your departments and things that they have to be able to hit or cases can't sit still for so long. What are some things that you do?
Jackie:
So I do case reviews with every case manager and attorneys. Basically every week they have to bring me eight of their best and worst cases. So when I'm reviewing those cases, and initially when they're new cases, I like to put a timeframe on them, timeframe on them as to how long is it going to take to be done with this case? Is this a trial case? Is this a Nick case? Is this a Bob case? So initially I already know what to do with that case. The case manager knows what to do because unless they have great guidance of what is best for the case and what attorney is best for the case, you can easily-
Bob:
And a lot of people don't realize that not every case is for every lawyer. There's certain lawyers that specialize in different things. So that's why I think it's important to have that mentorship you provide at your firm to workshop each of these. We do that for trials at our firm. And it sounds like you have a great cadence at yours to go over. Early files, mid-size files to say, hey, what are we going to be able to do with these to help these people out?
Jackie:
Definitely. Bob, at the end of the day, we're here to help these clients. And for me to say JT is top trial best attorneys, who am I lying to? At the end of the day, you have to understand that each case needs to go to the right attorney, who knows how to handle this case best? Because this client trusted me. So now it's my job to make sure that I am doing my absolute best to do what's best for this client. And that's what's important to me.
Bob:
You want to maximize the result for every single client that walks. Sometimes it's your firm, you'll take it all the way to trial if it's in your wheelhouse. Sometimes it's either an out of state or a complicated case that goes somewhere else.
Jackie:
Definitely. And there are things I may not know. So I will literally call Nick and say, Nick, I have an offer on this. What are your thoughts? If he says, Jackie-
Bob:
She's referencing Nick Row, Trial Lawyers for Justice, one of our good friends. Yeah.
Jackie:
Or Jacob. You know Jacob.
Bob:

(03:10):
Jacob Norman. Also Trial Lawyers for Justice, one of our good friends.
Jackie:
Yes. What do you think? I have an offer on this case. And imagine if I take that offer, but in reality, Nick could have came in or Jacob could have came in and got much more. What am I doing to that client? So that's where I think it's very important to collaborate and work with the best attorneys.
Bob:
I agree 100% of that. Okay. So walk us through cases being paid out. You've done the lien negotiations, everything's saved in Case Peer, client okays a settlement, it's dispersed. What happens now that protects either that client as an asset or it gives you more visibility of a firm? What do you do after that part? Is a case just closed, you never see it again. Case Peer is closed, or what do you do?
Jackie:
So once we close the case, what we love to do is contact clients and let them know, look, we got your check. We're working on disbursements. We try to make every client happy. I have a department that literally calls to tell them about the disbursements to make sure they're happy and that they'll turn around and say, look Jackie, this was amazing. And they'll go write a review. Now you have a happy client. Once you have that established, after you've closed your case, and we like them to come and pick up the check because we like to give them some JT hats, and you want them to feel good and hopefully refer you a client. And that's where you get your referrals. But they do stay in our system and that's part of the happy birthdays and Christmas and happy Thanksgiving. Sometimes we do a team picture of JT Legal Group reminding them of, remember us [inaudible 00:19:59].
Bob:
Do you ever track how many cases you get from your prior clients just from this?
Jackie:
Oh, definitely.
Bob:
Wow.
Jackie:
Bob, I track everything. That's one thing I do is everything is tracked. Where the call came in, how it came in, who picked it up, everything is tracked. So that's one thing I like to know because then you know the effort you put in towards the end of the case helped or not.
Bob:
And have you done the metrics to see, go into your backend and figure out what marketing is working best for you? Is it digital? Is it client satisfaction, prior clients, referrals? Have you mapped that out yet?
Jackie:
Yeah, I mean, again, because I track everything, I'm able to see which marketing works, which intake person works with which marketing, all of it. Because it makes a huge difference if you know how to put people's skills to use in the right place. And that goes back to intake as well. I have some intakes that are great with Spanish calls. Great. And there are some that are great with English or there are some great with Armenian. So those calls are routed to the right people too.
Bob:
So last topic we'll touch on before we close out. We'll do a more, I think a masterclass with you at some point. Workshops. Let's talk hiring, because I think a lot of law firms struggle with hiring the right people. And once they're hired, they don't a very good job training them. You've seemed to hired very well. What do you credit that success to hiring people in the right roles?

(03:31):
Jackie:
For me, most important is loyalty, honesty, empathy and respect. And I try to find that in people when I'm hiring them. I think a skill can be taught. If you have a good human, the rest can be done. And I'm all in training. I'd rather train three months more, but have someone with those values than to bring in someone skilled and now have to try to teach them how to have values, which is very, very hard. So that's what I look for. And I'm very picky in hiring, very picky. But if I do hire them, I give it my all to make sure they're well taken care of.
Bob:
And is this a lot of other employees referring you employees? Are you on Craigslist? That's still even around, I'm sure. But how do find-
Jackie:
It is combined. A lot of people that have worked with me will reach out and say, this person would like to work with you. Or we do have ads that they'll come in for interviews. I also have a lot of interns. I love having interns. I love teaching them and helping them grow. So combination of it all, referral and all. Oh, we still have ads. We always have ads. I'm always looking.
Bob:
Always looking for good stuff.
Jackie:
Always looking.
Bob:
So you've been with the firm eight years, about?
Jackie:
Yeah, it's been eight years.
Bob:
And how has it changed in eight years?
Jackie:
Oh my gosh, a lot. Definitely, I feel like we are changing every month. Every month there's improvements. I have to have improvements. I can't feel comfortable. I always tell people if I feel comfortable, I'm uncomfortable.
Bob:
I like that.
Jackie:

(03:52):
I cannot feel comfortable. I need challenge. I can't have easy.
Bob:
And you've hired people though in other director level roles at your firm, people that are doing technology and other things. Why is that important to you?
Jackie:
Very important. Every department must have a head of department, that is a director, a manager or supervisor. Because when you go into 90 employees, even though I love solving everyone's issues myself, but it becomes hard because I don't have enough time. What I like to do is train and have those skilled with those values, employees in those positions to be able to do what I do for the team.
Bob:
Wow. And the prior consumer company that you had prior to running a law firm went to 500 employees, I think you said?
Jackie:
From 25 to 500.
Bob:
Do you think you could have your law firm handle 500 employees?
Jackie:
I can. I don't know if I want to go that route because I like where I am right now. I like to be more involved with every employee. I like to be there to solve their problems, to talk to them, to see how their day was. More hands on. I feel like that gives me more joy than if it becomes that big and I don't know their names.
Bob:
I love it. Well, cool. Well, Jackie, how do people reach out to you for advice or mentorship? How do they get ahold of you?
Jackie:
Sure. I haven't really done much, but my Instagram is available. They can always call my office as well. I can leave some information.
Bob:
Well, people that are listening, they won't be able to see if we put that little graphic down. So what's your email or what's your handle? How do people get ahold of you?
Jackie:
Yes. Well, you can email me at Jackie, J-A-C-K-I-E, at jtlegalgroup.com. Those are my emails directly forwarded to me. I would love to help anybody that would need my help.

(04:13):
Bob:
I love it. And if you have any other specific questions, you go to justiceteamnetwork.com, reach out to us. We'll put you in touch with Jackie or other people like her. And I would love if Jackie started a mastermind for operators and law firms. I think it's a big thing missing in our industry is teaching lawyers how to operate their businesses. A lot of us are too busy practicing law or talking shit on podcasts like me. Jackie, thank you for coming on.
Jackie:
Thank you, Bob. Thank you so much for having me.
Bob:
And you're welcome. And thank you for listening to this episode of the Justice Team Podcast on the Justice Team Network. You can find us on the Apple playlist, you can find us on YouTube, or justiceteamnetwork.com. Thanks again.
Jackie:
Thank you.