August 24, 2024 • 34 mins
The way financial advisors charge for their services is evolving—but with so many models out there, how do you choose the right one?
In this episode of Kick It Open, host Shelby Nicholl sits down with Julia Lilly, founder of Ryerson Financial, to cut through the confusion. Julia shares her journey from the broker-dealer world to launching her fee-for-service financial planning firm, built on transparency and client empowerment.
We dive into the pros and cons of different pricing models, the rise of advice-only planning, and how Julia built her firm from the ground up—including the tech she uses to power her unique client experience.
If you’re an advisor rethinking your revenue model—or a client wondering what you’re really paying for—this episode is a must-listen.
00:00 Introduction to Financial Health Checkups
00:22 Welcome to the Kick It Open Podcast
00:29 Meet Julia Lilly: Wealth Management Expert
01:23 Julia's Journey in Wealth Management
02:37 Understanding Financial Planning Models
05:20 The Fee for Service Model
06:07 Client Impact and Transparency
07:04 Empowering Clients in Financial Planning
09:19 Challenges and Rewards of Fee-Only Planning
15:46 Solopreneurship and Mastermind Groups
23:02 Tech Tools and Cybersecurity
25:02 Future Growth and Trends in Financial Planning
31:11 Advice for Aspiring Financial Planners
33:20 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Schedule a discovery call with Shelby Nicholl: Zoom Scheduler
Produced by Shelby Nicholl.
Edited by Aaron Sherman.
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/ra/let-good-times-roll License code: EV5ON7Y3CSESDSEU
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Julia Lilly (00:00):
when I talk with clients about explaining the
value, I try to equate it tokind of a financial health
checkup.
I want to do a full diagnostic.
you're investing into yourfinancial health we're not just
looking at an investmentstrategy.
We're looking at all thedifferent pieces of their
financial life.
So that's really how I framedthe why behind working with me
(00:21):
and my model.
Shelby Nicholl (00:22):
Welcome back to the Kick It Open podcast.
I'm your host, Shelby Nichol.
I'm really excited for today'sconversation.
I've invited Julia Lilly to joinme today.
solopreneur, runner of RyersonFinancial.
And she's worked in the wealthmanagement industry for decades.
Her background includes servingin the home office of a
(00:43):
traditional broker dealer,acting as an advisor in an RIA,
and now operating her own feefor planning firm.
I couldn't think of anyonebetter to share their
perspective on how our industrycharges clients for the services
it provides, and who could talkabout the up and coming
revolution of fee for plan orfee for service that we're
(01:05):
starting to see.
there has been a conversationwithin the wealth management
industry about how this industryshould charge clients for the
value that advisors provide.
It's a growing area and one thatis maybe a little less
understood by many of us in theindustry.
I'm so glad that Julia agreed tocome on the show.
Welcome, Julia.
(01:25):
So welcome, Julia.
I'm really excited to have thisconversation with you today.
Thank you for being here.
Julia Lilly (01:31):
Thank you, Shelby, for including me.
I'm excited.
Shelby Nicholl (01:34):
So, as we get started, one of the things I
love to do at the beginning isjust to hear from you.
What is your journey in wealthmanagement?
Julia Lilly (01:43):
I laugh.
Journey is a very good wordbecause it's been a bit of a
journey.
So I've always worked infinance, but about 10 years ago,
I joined a broker dealer doinghome office work.
So I wasn't doing client facingwork, but my job there was to
better inform the client.
Financial planning experienceand just get a better handle on
(02:03):
really what is financialplanning and what the client
values in the experience.
I got my CFP.
I left the broker dealer.
And then joined an assets undermanagement firm.
So it was a firm that works withclients based on the assets that
we manage and we provide thatongoing relationship.
About three years ago, we movedto the Houston, Texas area.
(02:25):
And at that time, I decided Ilove financial planning, but I
wanted the freedom andflexibility.
So three years ago, I startedRyerson Financial as an advice
only flat fee planning firm.
Shelby Nicholl (02:38):
That is such a different experience than what
you saw inside of the brokerdealer and even inside of your
AUM based firm.
So just to level set foreveryone, let's just Talk about
those models because they'rereally around what is the advice
being provided and then what,how are they priced?
How is that advice priced andcharged for?
Can you kind of talk about thoseoptions?
Julia Lilly (03:01):
Yeah.
I mean, I laugh.
I'm a student of this space.
I'm close to it and I find itconfusing.
So I think from a clientexperience, people looking to
partner with an advisor.
It's overwhelming because thelanguage is nuanced and what
does it all mean and how does itactually work in practice?
There's times when I see modelsadvertised and I have to go and
research exactly what thatmeans.
(03:23):
So there's kind of three primarymethods at this point in, the
financial planning landscapethat I'm aware of.
It's more that commission based.
So that is pure transactional.
Whatever transaction you performwith an advisor, you're paying a
commission.
Sometimes whether you know it ornot.
(03:44):
It could be baked into thefinancial product that you're
purchasing.
It could be more transparentwhere it's, you know, just a
line item that says in order tobuy this particular asset.
You have to pay this amount ofmoney.
So that's step one.
Then there's the assets undermanagement.
So that's where you're paying towork with an advisor based on
(04:05):
the assets that an advisormanages.
So it's typically in a rangefrom like 1 percent to 3 percent
of your assets under managementthat an And have that kind of on
call support and someonewatching your portfolio.
The third model is really thiskind of growing space, which is
(04:28):
kind of flat fee slash fee forservice.
Where people are trying to say,because it's confusing that even
asset under management will saywe're a flat fee.
Because you're not paying thatcommission, but a true flat fee
means it doesn't matter how manyassets you have, you pay one
very transparent dollar amountfor the relationship.
(04:50):
That's like 10, 000 foot view ofthe like clean silos, but even
within each of those, there'snuances around how people
approach delivering the serviceto clients.
Shelby Nicholl (05:02):
Absolutely.
And there's even people who arecombining those models, right?
And they might say for yourfinancial plan, I'm going to
charge you a certain fee.
And then if you want me tomanage your assets, I charge an
AUM based fee.
So you see a little bit ofblending there.
Julia Lilly (05:18):
Exactly.
And so there, people say, I'mfee only, but really they're fee
based because they're chargingthe AUM, plus they're
potentially selling insurancecontracts where they're getting
paid a commission for thatinsurance contract.
Shelby Nicholl (05:33):
So you chose to go this fee for service, fee
only model, whatever words wewant to put on that.
Julia Lilly (05:39):
I know it's very confusing.
So where I landed is that I justwanted more transparency.
That was one of the big things Ilearned, even working with the
broker dealer.
When I said I did more of thebehind the scenes, the home
office support, there are a lotof people who are getting
financial planning services andthought I pay nothing.
For this financial planningjourney, whereas they don't
(06:00):
realize embedded within each ofthe products that they own, they
are paying a fee to the advisorthat's just not transparent.
So for me, when I started thefirm here in Houston, my big
motivation was to put the clientmore in the driver's seat so
that they understood whatthey're paying and then the
value that they're getting forit.
Shelby Nicholl (06:21):
So how has that kind of impacted your clients?
Because I love that they, thatit's so transparent that they
can see their value.
When you describe to them yourvalue and the pricing, how do
you say that?
what is kind of your modelthere?
Is there differences incomplexity of clients?
Julia Lilly (06:38):
You know, I've tried to make it as simple as
possible.
sometimes that works in myfavor.
Sometimes that doesn't, becauseyou're right, there are nuances
and some are more complex thanothers.
But when I talk with clientsabout explaining the value, I
try to equate it to kind of afinancial health checkup.
So the reason to do it and topartner with me is that I want
(06:59):
to do a full diagnostic.
You know, you're committing andinvesting into your financial
health so that we're not justlooking at an investment
strategy.
We're looking at all thedifferent pieces of their
financial life.
So that's really how I framedthe why behind working with me
and my model.
And also one other nuance of theway that I'm approaching my
(07:20):
service offering is that I'madvice only.
which means that I don't requireclients to move assets to a
specific custodian.
I'm not going to be the oneplacing a trade on a client's
behalf.
Instead, I want the client to bein the driver's seat.
I coach, I provide a lot ofstrategy.
We log in together even and lookat their dashboard at their
(07:42):
custodian of choice.
But I'm not the gatekeeper tomanaging that, that investment
strategy.
Shelby Nicholl (07:49):
So interesting.
So it's a very different kind ofpsychological model in some
ways, right?
Because I think about being inthe broker dealer and it is
often around an advisor andalmost this sort of parental.
manner with their clients, theadvisor is providing the
(08:10):
recommendations, the client issaying yes, in many cases the
advisor is the portfolio managerand working as an FA as PM and
so they're actually making allthose choices on behalf of the
client with the client's needsand wants.
Your philosophy is very muchabout, it sounds to me like
empowering the, the investor andthey make the choices.
(08:35):
They are understanding thosechoices in a, maybe a different,
deeper way.
Julia Lilly (08:41):
That's my goal is to kind of pull back a little
bit of the curtain of how all ofthese financial products work
and the why behind choosingdifferent investments.
My struggle is a lot of timesthat.
advisor as a PM, they're justgoing into models that a client
could very well do on their own.
And they're getting rebalancedwithin the ETF and more index
(09:02):
passive strategy that we've alittle bit over engineered and
we need to do that.
And some clients really want tojust be able to say, I want to
hand it all over.
I don't even want to look at it.
I don't want to think about it.
And when I work with clients.
I'm just saying, let's put theplan in place and then revisit
it again in a year, but reallynot try to over engineer what's
(09:22):
happening on the investmentstrategy side of things.
Shelby Nicholl (09:26):
So interesting.
You know, when we reconnectedand I heard about your practice,
I thought to myself, gosh, thisis really cool.
This industry has been talkingabout kind of a movement
towards, pay for advice, advicefor fees, sort of an approach,
but it also sounds really hard.
Have you found it to be harder,easier than the other models?
(09:49):
What's your take on that?
Julia Lilly (09:52):
it's an and, you know, some parts are harder and
some parts are easier from acompliance standpoint.
Selfishly, it's a lot easier forme not to have to feel like I'm
babysitting a lot of accountsand gives me more peace of mind
on going to the independentroute where I'm a registered
investment advisor, but I'm asolopreneur.
And so that's a lot of balls tojuggle in addition to the
(10:13):
operations and everything else.
So that was for me, one bigdriver, but then the other piece
being to really put the clientin the driver's seat so that
they feel more ownership One ofthe biggest struggles in any
financial planning Model is theimplementation.
We can come up with the beststrategy, but if the client just
(10:33):
finds inertia, you know,different reasons not to pursue,
whether it's the insurancethat's recommended or the
investments and transferringassets and signing the
paperwork, all that stuff justbecomes the stickiness and the
process.
And so I look at my role asserving as an accountability
partner over four months, we'regoing to meet regularly so that
we check in on, okay, last timewe said we were going to get
(10:55):
this done.
How's that going?
Where are we?
So we keep the momentum, butthat is the hardest part,
whether it's my model or any ofthe models is to help clients
get out of, quite frankly, theirown way
Shelby Nicholl (11:06):
Yeah.
So what are some of thedeliverables that you're working
on in those four months asyou're working with clients so
deeply in those first fourmonths?
Julia Lilly (11:16):
So one of the other drivers for me on wanting to go
this route is that I am Reallypassionate that financial
planning is great.
You can do all the technicalelements, but the big
differentiators is thebehaviors.
And so I start every engagementby having clients take what I
call the Myers Briggs of theirfinancial health, you know,
(11:37):
their financial mindset.
And so that first meeting, wereview the results of that
assessment.
And the reason I like it isbecause rather than just, taking
this assessment, we're able tolook at real data that says,
Hey, the questions you answeredindicate that spending gives you
a lot of joy.
Let's talk about that more andhow that feeds into your
financial habits, like your,your money mindset that can
(11:58):
drive the outcome ultimately ofyour financial plan.
So that first meeting we'rededicated entirely talking about
this money mindset and then wemeet another really 4 to 5 times
over that 4 month period tocover each of the technical
elements of building a financialplan.
(12:19):
And in every meeting.
We have deliverables where wewalk through those decks that
are customized to that client'sindividual situation.
Outside of that, I do use tech.
You know, I use a financialplanning software.
I use Right Capital.
And then also a budgeting toolthat's been really helpful for
clients is called Monarch Money.
(12:40):
And the reason I like that oneis that I kind of explain it as
a shining a flashlight on yourspend plan.
We can plan our cashflow all daylong, but unless we actually
look at what's happening, wewon't be able to move the needle
on some of those goals thatwe've laid out.
So it's kind of a multi prongedapproach from a deliverable
standpoint.
I often tell clients at thebeginning of the engagement,
(13:01):
you're not going to leave thisexperience with like a hundred
page document that just says,here's what you need to do.
Good luck, you can die at 99 andthis is what it'll look like.
It's much more iterative thanthat, but, we work together
along the way.
Shelby Nicholl (13:15):
That's great.
And then you've set up that planin those first four months.
Do you then meet with them on anongoing basis after that?
Or what does the engagement looklike after those first four
months?
Julia Lilly (13:26):
So those first four months sets the foundation.
And then once we're throughthere, they kind of graduate,
they still have access to thetools that we've shared, the
Monarch money and the rightcapital for a specific period of
time.
So rather than any kind ofsubscription tale, I really
wanted to try and align thevalue that the client receives
to what they're paying for thattime and effort that goes into
(13:48):
it.
So I touch base with clients,but then when things happen,
I've got a question about aninheritance or a bonus that
happened.
Where does it fit within myplan?
We schedule some time togetherand then they receive an invoice
for the hours that we worktogether.
Shelby Nicholl (14:03):
Okay, that's great.
I mean, I love the very, as yousaid at the very beginning, the
complete transparency of thisapproach and the empowerment
that you're giving them as well.
Julia Lilly (14:15):
I think it's a growing space.
you know, especially for theindividuals that just want to
say, I don't want to touch this.
I need someone else to place allthe trades.
I'm not the right solution forthem right now, but as we
continue to build out betterrobo platforms and things where
the investment management piececan just be kind of a set it and
forget it, this advice only,Partnership with a model like
(14:37):
that starts to really get somelegs.
So it's exciting.
It's growing.
There's a number of us that aremoving in this direction.
Shelby Nicholl (14:46):
I was doing some research and prep for this
podcast, and one of the things Iloved about your particular
website was that you kind ofnamed your ideal client.
Can you talk about who yourideal client is?
Julia Lilly (14:59):
They definitely need to be tech savvy to a
certain degree because I'm avirtual firm and we meet on the
computer.
for Houston clients, I have metin person, but primarily we meet
through tech.
So that's kind of the tablestakes.
And then from there, it'sindividuals who do feel
comfortable being in thedriver's seat of their plan, who
don't want to take what I callis more the ostrich approach,
(15:22):
you know, head in the sand, Idon't want to look at it.
Instead, they're interested inreally prioritizing their
financial picture and bringingit into focus.
So I would say those are the twobig kind of caveats.
And then as to where they are intheir life's journey, Where some
clients I'm working with earlieron in their careers, some are
(15:44):
more in that kind of the meat oftheir career.
And what does this look like andhow much longer do I need to do
the grind?
More looking for thatvalidation.
And then I've worked withclients that are on the doorstep
or just starting.
Retirement, really trying tomake sure that they're
structured correctly for thatdecumulation phase of life that
they're headed into.
Shelby Nicholl (16:04):
you also mentioned a moment ago that
you're a solopreneur.
it's a balancing act for sure asa solopreneur.
How did you know how to set upthis type of practice, right?
Cause it is a growing space.
It's a new way of doing thisbusiness in some ways.
how did you know how to set upyour practice?
What does compliance look like?
I know there's tons of likeoperational kind of questions in
(16:27):
here for me.
Julia Lilly (16:29):
So there are a ton of questions and some of it is
you try it, and figure it out asyou kind of continue to build
the ship while you're flying.
But there are a lot ofresources.
XY Planning Network was reallyinvaluable to me on just kind of
getting started.
And I had done a lot ofresearch.
So finding the right resourcesand building out my advisor
(16:52):
network on other individuals whoare going through this similar
journey.
I think we might have evenlaughed about this, Shelby, at
one of our earlierconversations, but these
mastermind groups are kind ofunique to the financial advisor
landscape.
I always laugh at the name.
I don't understand why we'recalled mastermind groups.
But those have been fantastic onmaking that solopreneur journey,
(17:13):
less isolating, less lonely, andreally a spot to throw ideas at,
ask for validation, ask forrecommendations.
That's where early on I got thecompliance suggestions.
the kind of what is your techstack look like?
How do you optimize?
All of that came from thosediscussions, as well as the
(17:33):
resources that were available tome.
When I first launched, I wasvery excited and passionate
about hourly.
And that's where I started.
But I've pivoted to where hourlyis great, but when I want to do
the approach I want to do whereit's less whack a mole is what I
described.
When you just do hourly, we'regoing to maybe solve a problem
(17:56):
over here and create anotherproblem over here.
So that to me felt toofrustrating where I wasn't
really helping the client lookat their whole picture.
I wanted to move away from, hey,this email took me 10 minutes
and I need to bill at thishourly rate.
The stickiness of that, there'senough inertia and friction to
people wanting to prioritize thefinancial planning tasks.
(18:19):
I wanted to remove that.
And so that's where I moved tothis four month planning journey
for a flat fee and then hourlyThereafter, again, trying to
make it as transparent aspossible, but remove the
friction of people beinghesitant to connect and not
wanting to prioritize movingthrough the journey.
instead these, some of theengagements would go on a year
(18:41):
versus really just making itdone so that they feel like
they're in a good spot.
Shelby Nicholl (18:46):
So I want to go back to one of the things that
you mentioned a moment ago,which was the mastermind groups.
because I think When people havekind of grown up in traditional
firms, you get that within yourregions, you get that within
your local office, etc.
And when you are a solopreneur,You have to seek out the
(19:08):
learning opportunities and thepeer group learning in a little
bit of a different way.
Talk about masterminds and howyou found those groups, are you
still part of one, et cetera.
Julia Lilly (19:22):
That's the hard part but the XY planning network
as part of a firm launch.
You get assigned to a mastermindgroup with other firms that are
in the same space.
And some are more active anddedicated members within that
group than others.
We started with probably 10 inour group.
And now there's a little cohortof three of us that meet more or
(19:42):
less every two weeks.
And it's really fantastic.
It's been, this whole journeyactually has been so cool on the
power of the internet.
To connect because I'm a virtualfirm and I'm located in Texas.
My mastermind group is Bay Areaand San Francisco.
And then the other woman is inTennessee.
We've never met in person, but Ifeel this strong connection with
(20:05):
them.
We've kind of gone through thisand we're growing up together
with the firms.
And that's been awesome.
And then NAPFA is another greatresource that's connected me
with more of a mentoring circle,creating some of that networking
opportunities as well.
It's really a matter of makingsure it's a priority that you
show up.
Even if you don't have apressing issue to solve.
(20:26):
One, you could learn from theother questions that get asked
by other people on the group.
You're able to bounce ideasnaturally off of people, but
when you're just in, I kind ofcall it the echo chamber.
I laughed with my group whereit's like, this sounded like a
great idea when I was justpitching it to myself, but how
does this sound againsteverybody else?
So it's been valuable.
(20:47):
Also partnering with even justthese other resources, like
SCORE is a program through theSmall Business Association.
I got paired with a mentor forfree.
It's a retiree who's specializedin marketing.
And all of those kind ofscaffolding together have helped
give me more of a sense ofcommunity as I embark on this
(21:08):
kind of solo journey.
It feels less isolating.
Shelby Nicholl (21:12):
That's wonderful.
I think it's, So important tofeel connection and being a
woman in this industry.
That's part of it, right?
There's so many more men thanthere are women, being a
solopreneur working from home,It is important to find those
connections.
One of the things I've beenthinking about, even for myself,
as I continue to build myconsulting practice connecting
(21:35):
with other people on specifictopics like marketing, etc.
And you mentioned, your mentorHas that been an approach that
you've done and has thatprovided value for you?
Julia Lilly (21:46):
Yeah, no, that was extremely valuable.
She was great.
Very thoughtful, super follow upnotes, really added value and
pushed me.
She served as the accountabilitypartner that I try to serve with
my clients.
We would meet and she'd be like,Hey, you said you were going to
do this.
What happened?
It was really, really valuable.
One other program I forgot tomention that I was part of is
(22:07):
that my husband was in themilitary.
And so I was eligible as amilitary spouse to join a
program called Bunker Labs.
that's a program six monthjourney where other
solopreneurs, otherentrepreneurs who are launching
things, it doesn't have to bejust financial services, but we
met on a weekly basis and thatit's all about finding the right
(22:30):
group.
That's going to hold youaccountable.
And keep you making progress.
Shelby Nicholl (22:34):
Yeah, I appreciate that so much.
I think that's where I'm at evenright now in my journey as a,
entrepreneur as well is findingthat scaffolding of people and
then also figuring out what arethe places that I like to work
and the things I like to do andwhat are the things that I need
to hire out, et cetera.
I think when you first goindependent or you become a
(22:56):
solopreneur, You're sortingthrough those things in real
time, like you said, buildingthe plane as you're flying it at
the same time.
Julia Lilly (23:03):
totally and trying to really do it all yourself
because you're bootstrapping andyou need to make it all as lean
and mean as possible, but thentrying to shift into, okay, that
growth mindset of not gettingstuck.
where do I want to be three tofive years?
And what do I need to put inplace to get there?
I recently just started using anAI note taker.
(23:24):
Realistically, I can take thenotes afterwards, but it's been
really nice.
One, to just feel like I'mstaying current with everything
that's happening in theindustry, but it's been also
great to help optimize myprocess.
Some of those notes that aregetting captured with the AI
note taker, Help alleviate someof the time and pressure that I
was putting on myself to takecopious notes.
(23:47):
I can use that as a tool toreference back to.
So it's finding those things toplug into, but it's also, you
don't know what you don't know,and you want to make sure
whatever you try works for thelonger term so that you're not
just too noisy and distractingfrom the work you're trying to
do.
Shelby Nicholl (24:05):
That's a great point.
Tell me about what you're doingin order to track maybe leads
and leads of potential clientsthat you might work with and
clients.
Do you use the CRM?
Is, are you at that point whereyou needed that yet?
Julia Lilly (24:20):
Yeah, I don't necessarily have to use the CRM
right now, but I really liketrying to create that as just
part of my workflow so that it'snatural, everything's documented
from a compliance standpoint,but I definitely use the CRM and
I've tried different pieceswithin the CRM to track not only
where they are in their journey,that they're currently clients,
(24:40):
but also building thoseworkflows to track Prospects,
who have I reached out to,tracking some of the marketing
efforts that I'm doing, the CRMis valuable for sure.
And using it before I think Ineed it.
You know, part of me in theearly days is like, Oh, it's
fine.
I can just do them in thespreadsheet, but the spreadsheet
becomes cumbersome and much moretime intensive quickly.
(25:02):
So that's the goal is to makesure that you're using those
tools to allow you to free uptime to do other things.
Shelby Nicholl (25:09):
That's right.
You know, you talked earlierabout kind of the growth in this
fee only as a method ofproviding advice and you talked
also about your practice andgrowth goals.
What are your growth goals foryour practice in these next few
years?
Julia Lilly (25:26):
where I am, I mean you're similar journey.
Time is the most preciouscommodity, you know, trying to
balance building this with theschool calendars.
I've got three young kids aswell.
So my five years is to continueto grow, but in a way that
doesn't completely burn me out.
And so finding that balance ofhow many clients on a regular
basis, I do think five to six.
(25:48):
Just myself is kind of right nowmy cap.
So maybe in two to three years,bringing on someone else to
continue to grow the business.
I'm excited about that beingkind of the growth strategy
going forward because My modeldoes require more time
intensive.
You know, it's not as much justget the assets into the accounts
(26:09):
and then I don't talk to someonemaybe for a year, maybe two
years, but I'm still gettingpaid by just having those assets
on my books.
Instead, mine is a more timeintensive journey.
And so marrying that balance ofkind of what's the right pricing
structure that I'm getting theright clients that want to work
with me as well as my staffingand kind of my expense side.
(26:31):
So, right now, I'm kind of inthe sweet spot, but in 3 to 5
years, my goal would behopefully to bring on another
planner that would take on someof that client work so that we
could grow the number of peoplewere able to serve.
Shelby Nicholl (26:43):
Oh, that's great.
I think you'll be able to reallygrow that impact in the clients,
like you said, let's talk aboutother trends and things that
you're seeing in financialplanning or in the operations of
a practice like you.
I love this AI conversation thatwe've been having.
what other things shouldadvisors be sort of looking for?
Julia Lilly (27:02):
The AI and just in general being tech first where
clients, you know, I don't seethem in person.
They're not bringing paperdocuments It's been fascinating
to me the psychology not only ofpeople's money, but then also
psychology around data andsharing It's been really
interesting some clients thatI've worked with don't want to
share any data They need toredact everything and I say,
(27:22):
okay, I want to work with you,but I have to To be able to see
some things.
And then there's other clientsthat are like, record it, put it
anywhere.
I don't care.
And they're sending, you know,emails with documents attached.
So it runs the gamut.
That's been one of the trickierparts is just making sure
everyone's educated on the rightchannels, being transparent with
the client.
(27:42):
I sometimes laugh that I'm a bitof the conspiracy theorist.
You know, I, I do have worriesabout data and data integrity,
so I might be overly concerned,but that's something that I'm
really passionate about makingsure that the client feels
confident that their data issafe.
It's in a third party vendor,you know, really trying to be as
(28:03):
open about how I'm managing allof that as possible.
So from an operationsstandpoint, that's the biggest
one for me that I worry about islike cyber security and, and
it's been interesting trying toeducate myself on all of that.
It's just an interesting worldon kind of how to manage the
operations and make sure you'redoing it correctly.
Shelby Nicholl (28:23):
what are some of the tools that you're using
there?
Are you using like a Dropbox oris Dropbox secure enough?
Or what are you choosing foryour data sharing, foldering
system?
Julia Lilly (28:33):
it's been a little all over the map, but I do lean
on those third party vendors tomake sure that they're following
their protocols.
The hard part is we can do thebest that we can and huge
industry players are stillhacked.
You know, so it's, it's atricky, to navigate and trying
to make the client feel asconfident as possible that I'm
(28:56):
doing the best I can to keep theinformation secure.
Shelby Nicholl (29:00):
Yeah, I especially love hearing that you
are not using Generally sendingthose documents through email,
etc.
I've heard of a couple of caseswhen I was still in the
corporate ranks and was workingon securities based lending
where even things like, ACHinstructions and wire
instructions Mid email string.
(29:22):
That email had been hacked andgave me the wrong wire
instructions as a bank and now Ihave wired money somewhere to a
fraudster, right?
Instead of it going to yourtitle company when you were
buying a home, as an example.
Julia Lilly (29:36):
Yeah.
It's, it is crazy.
One of my first jobs was workingactually at the Missouri,
Attorney General's office in theConsumer Protection Division.
So maybe that's what createdthis conspiracy theorist thing
in me of really beinghypervigilant on how sneaky some
of the things can be on grabbingemails or credit card data at
(29:58):
the grocery store.
it's definitely top of mind forme, especially when I'm trying
to implement and incorporatetech tools, in an efficient way.
Shelby Nicholl (30:07):
Absolutely.
Julia Lilly (30:08):
other piece of the planning process that I do, I'm
not a CPA, but I do help withtax strategy.
And so I do need clients taxreturns, which that for me is
the most sensitive data that Iget.
You know, I need statements, butit doesn't have social security
numbers on it, but the taxdocuments I do need.
And so the tool I use is calledHolista plan and I'm vigilant
(30:30):
on, and they do a great job ofdata security.
But those are the things that Iworry about as the business
owner to kind of think about myvulnerabilities.
Shelby Nicholl (30:39):
Yeah, you have a great tech stack.
RightCapital is so good.
HolistaPlan is really well knownand just a great tool.
I hear advisors all the timesinging the praises of
HolistaPlan.
for your CRM, are you usingWealthbox or what do you
Julia Lilly (30:53):
I use, I use Wealthbox.
Shelby Nicholl (30:55):
I'm a huge fan.
Huge fan of Wealthbox.
Yeah,
Julia Lilly (30:57):
and even Holista plan early on when you're like,
which ones am I going toincorporate?
You think, Oh, I can just lookat the returns myself.
It has been such a time saverand a fantastic tool to use on
the fly with clients.
It's invaluable.
Shelby Nicholl (31:11):
yeah, I hear a lot of times of advisors talking
about how they have found errorsin client tax returns by running
them through Holista plan.
And either then they can, youknow, choose to act on those or
not, but it's, it's aninteresting conversation
sometimes with their CPApartners as a result.
well we are coming up on timeand I want to ask kind of in
(31:32):
closing today, what is, what isyour advice that you would give
to other financial planners whoare considering the different
models and specifically this feefor advice fee for planning
approach.
Julia Lilly (31:47):
gosh, that's a great question.
So I would encourage people tolook around, talk with other
advisors who are doing thedifferent models to get a better
handle on the pros and cons,because there truly are pros and
cons to all of the models.
And just making sure thatwhatever route you choose.
That it's ethical, that it'sdone according to kind of the
(32:08):
way you feel passionate aboutdelivering financial services.
But I will just toot the horn ofrecommending exploring all the
options and talking to peoplebecause it is getting more
confusing and the kind oftraditional route of just going
insurance sales or that AUMmodel is evolving.
I think it's exciting to be partof.
(32:29):
It's just figuring out the rightway.
And how to partner where youdon't necessarily have to build
your own, but you can kind offold within a practice in order
to get that experience.
Shelby Nicholl (32:40):
One of the things I just love about this
interview and your story is howdeeply you are committed to
transparency and to transparencywith the clients and their fees,
transparency in how you work,etc.
Julia Lilly (32:56):
Yeah, it's exciting.
I'm keen on putting individualinvestors in the driver's seat
so that they feel moreknowledgeable about why they
hold different things in theirinvestment strategy.
But then broader than that even,it's the insurance, it's your
cash flow, it's what are yourgoals.
because it's a lot easier tomanage your budget.
(33:16):
When you're focused on, I wantto make sure I can retire at X
date or go on this huge trip andkeeping those in focus.
So, really trying to bring theholistic conversation I think it
really needs to be more on howwe can continue to help.
Impact clients earlier on theirjourney so that they can get to
the 3 million.
I was like, how can you be thatcoach and partner?
Shelby Nicholl (33:36):
I couldn't agree more.
Thank you so much, Julia, forbeing here today on the podcast.
I really appreciate it.
Julia Lilly (33:43):
Thank you for the conversation.
It was great.
It was great to see you andexcited to be part of your
Muriel network and just continueto see this space grow.
Shelby Nicholl (33:51):
Oh, I can't wait to hear about your practice
growth over the next severalyears.
I have no doubts that you'regoing to be so successful.
Thank you.
Julia Lilly (33:57):
Shelby great to see you.
when I talk with clients about explaining the
value, I try to equate it tokind of a financial health
checkup.
I want to do a full diagnostic.
you're investing into yourfinancial health we're not just
looking at an investmentstrategy.
We're looking at all thedifferent pieces of their
financial life.
So that's really how I framedthe why behind working with me
(00:21):
and my model.
Shelby Nicholl (00:22):
Welcome back to the Kick It Open podcast.
I'm your host, Shelby Nichol.
I'm really excited for today'sconversation.
I've invited Julia Lilly to joinme today.
solopreneur, runner of RyersonFinancial.
And she's worked in the wealthmanagement industry for decades.
Her background includes servingin the home office of a
(00:43):
traditional broker dealer,acting as an advisor in an RIA,
and now operating her own feefor planning firm.
I couldn't think of anyonebetter to share their
perspective on how our industrycharges clients for the services
it provides, and who could talkabout the up and coming
revolution of fee for plan orfee for service that we're
(01:05):
starting to see.
there has been a conversationwithin the wealth management
industry about how this industryshould charge clients for the
value that advisors provide.
It's a growing area and one thatis maybe a little less
understood by many of us in theindustry.
I'm so glad that Julia agreed tocome on the show.
Welcome, Julia.
(01:25):
So welcome, Julia.
I'm really excited to have thisconversation with you today.
Thank you for being here.
Julia Lilly (01:31):
Thank you, Shelby, for including me.
I'm excited.
Shelby Nicholl (01:34):
So, as we get started, one of the things I
love to do at the beginning isjust to hear from you.
What is your journey in wealthmanagement?
Julia Lilly (01:43):
I laugh.
Journey is a very good wordbecause it's been a bit of a
journey.
So I've always worked infinance, but about 10 years ago,
I joined a broker dealer doinghome office work.
So I wasn't doing client facingwork, but my job there was to
better inform the client.
Financial planning experienceand just get a better handle on
(02:03):
really what is financialplanning and what the client
values in the experience.
I got my CFP.
I left the broker dealer.
And then joined an assets undermanagement firm.
So it was a firm that works withclients based on the assets that
we manage and we provide thatongoing relationship.
About three years ago, we movedto the Houston, Texas area.
(02:25):
And at that time, I decided Ilove financial planning, but I
wanted the freedom andflexibility.
So three years ago, I startedRyerson Financial as an advice
only flat fee planning firm.
Shelby Nicholl (02:38):
That is such a different experience than what
you saw inside of the brokerdealer and even inside of your
AUM based firm.
So just to level set foreveryone, let's just Talk about
those models because they'rereally around what is the advice
being provided and then what,how are they priced?
How is that advice priced andcharged for?
Can you kind of talk about thoseoptions?
Julia Lilly (03:01):
Yeah.
I mean, I laugh.
I'm a student of this space.
I'm close to it and I find itconfusing.
So I think from a clientexperience, people looking to
partner with an advisor.
It's overwhelming because thelanguage is nuanced and what
does it all mean and how does itactually work in practice?
There's times when I see modelsadvertised and I have to go and
research exactly what thatmeans.
(03:23):
So there's kind of three primarymethods at this point in, the
financial planning landscapethat I'm aware of.
It's more that commission based.
So that is pure transactional.
Whatever transaction you performwith an advisor, you're paying a
commission.
Sometimes whether you know it ornot.
(03:44):
It could be baked into thefinancial product that you're
purchasing.
It could be more transparentwhere it's, you know, just a
line item that says in order tobuy this particular asset.
You have to pay this amount ofmoney.
So that's step one.
Then there's the assets undermanagement.
So that's where you're paying towork with an advisor based on
(04:05):
the assets that an advisormanages.
So it's typically in a rangefrom like 1 percent to 3 percent
of your assets under managementthat an And have that kind of on
call support and someonewatching your portfolio.
The third model is really thiskind of growing space, which is
(04:28):
kind of flat fee slash fee forservice.
Where people are trying to say,because it's confusing that even
asset under management will saywe're a flat fee.
Because you're not paying thatcommission, but a true flat fee
means it doesn't matter how manyassets you have, you pay one
very transparent dollar amountfor the relationship.
(04:50):
That's like 10, 000 foot view ofthe like clean silos, but even
within each of those, there'snuances around how people
approach delivering the serviceto clients.
Shelby Nicholl (05:02):
Absolutely.
And there's even people who arecombining those models, right?
And they might say for yourfinancial plan, I'm going to
charge you a certain fee.
And then if you want me tomanage your assets, I charge an
AUM based fee.
So you see a little bit ofblending there.
Julia Lilly (05:18):
Exactly.
And so there, people say, I'mfee only, but really they're fee
based because they're chargingthe AUM, plus they're
potentially selling insurancecontracts where they're getting
paid a commission for thatinsurance contract.
Shelby Nicholl (05:33):
So you chose to go this fee for service, fee
only model, whatever words wewant to put on that.
Julia Lilly (05:39):
I know it's very confusing.
So where I landed is that I justwanted more transparency.
That was one of the big things Ilearned, even working with the
broker dealer.
When I said I did more of thebehind the scenes, the home
office support, there are a lotof people who are getting
financial planning services andthought I pay nothing.
For this financial planningjourney, whereas they don't
(06:00):
realize embedded within each ofthe products that they own, they
are paying a fee to the advisorthat's just not transparent.
So for me, when I started thefirm here in Houston, my big
motivation was to put the clientmore in the driver's seat so
that they understood whatthey're paying and then the
value that they're getting forit.
Shelby Nicholl (06:21):
So how has that kind of impacted your clients?
Because I love that they, thatit's so transparent that they
can see their value.
When you describe to them yourvalue and the pricing, how do
you say that?
what is kind of your modelthere?
Is there differences incomplexity of clients?
Julia Lilly (06:38):
You know, I've tried to make it as simple as
possible.
sometimes that works in myfavor.
Sometimes that doesn't, becauseyou're right, there are nuances
and some are more complex thanothers.
But when I talk with clientsabout explaining the value, I
try to equate it to kind of afinancial health checkup.
So the reason to do it and topartner with me is that I want
(06:59):
to do a full diagnostic.
You know, you're committing andinvesting into your financial
health so that we're not justlooking at an investment
strategy.
We're looking at all thedifferent pieces of their
financial life.
So that's really how I framedthe why behind working with me
and my model.
And also one other nuance of theway that I'm approaching my
(07:20):
service offering is that I'madvice only.
which means that I don't requireclients to move assets to a
specific custodian.
I'm not going to be the oneplacing a trade on a client's
behalf.
Instead, I want the client to bein the driver's seat.
I coach, I provide a lot ofstrategy.
We log in together even and lookat their dashboard at their
(07:42):
custodian of choice.
But I'm not the gatekeeper tomanaging that, that investment
strategy.
Shelby Nicholl (07:49):
So interesting.
So it's a very different kind ofpsychological model in some
ways, right?
Because I think about being inthe broker dealer and it is
often around an advisor andalmost this sort of parental.
manner with their clients, theadvisor is providing the
(08:10):
recommendations, the client issaying yes, in many cases the
advisor is the portfolio managerand working as an FA as PM and
so they're actually making allthose choices on behalf of the
client with the client's needsand wants.
Your philosophy is very muchabout, it sounds to me like
empowering the, the investor andthey make the choices.
(08:35):
They are understanding thosechoices in a, maybe a different,
deeper way.
Julia Lilly (08:41):
That's my goal is to kind of pull back a little
bit of the curtain of how all ofthese financial products work
and the why behind choosingdifferent investments.
My struggle is a lot of timesthat.
advisor as a PM, they're justgoing into models that a client
could very well do on their own.
And they're getting rebalancedwithin the ETF and more index
(09:02):
passive strategy that we've alittle bit over engineered and
we need to do that.
And some clients really want tojust be able to say, I want to
hand it all over.
I don't even want to look at it.
I don't want to think about it.
And when I work with clients.
I'm just saying, let's put theplan in place and then revisit
it again in a year, but reallynot try to over engineer what's
(09:22):
happening on the investmentstrategy side of things.
Shelby Nicholl (09:26):
So interesting.
You know, when we reconnectedand I heard about your practice,
I thought to myself, gosh, thisis really cool.
This industry has been talkingabout kind of a movement
towards, pay for advice, advicefor fees, sort of an approach,
but it also sounds really hard.
Have you found it to be harder,easier than the other models?
(09:49):
What's your take on that?
Julia Lilly (09:52):
it's an and, you know, some parts are harder and
some parts are easier from acompliance standpoint.
Selfishly, it's a lot easier forme not to have to feel like I'm
babysitting a lot of accountsand gives me more peace of mind
on going to the independentroute where I'm a registered
investment advisor, but I'm asolopreneur.
And so that's a lot of balls tojuggle in addition to the
(10:13):
operations and everything else.
So that was for me, one bigdriver, but then the other piece
being to really put the clientin the driver's seat so that
they feel more ownership One ofthe biggest struggles in any
financial planning Model is theimplementation.
We can come up with the beststrategy, but if the client just
(10:33):
finds inertia, you know,different reasons not to pursue,
whether it's the insurancethat's recommended or the
investments and transferringassets and signing the
paperwork, all that stuff justbecomes the stickiness and the
process.
And so I look at my role asserving as an accountability
partner over four months, we'regoing to meet regularly so that
we check in on, okay, last timewe said we were going to get
(10:55):
this done.
How's that going?
Where are we?
So we keep the momentum, butthat is the hardest part,
whether it's my model or any ofthe models is to help clients
get out of, quite frankly, theirown way
Shelby Nicholl (11:06):
Yeah.
So what are some of thedeliverables that you're working
on in those four months asyou're working with clients so
deeply in those first fourmonths?
Julia Lilly (11:16):
So one of the other drivers for me on wanting to go
this route is that I am Reallypassionate that financial
planning is great.
You can do all the technicalelements, but the big
differentiators is thebehaviors.
And so I start every engagementby having clients take what I
call the Myers Briggs of theirfinancial health, you know,
(11:37):
their financial mindset.
And so that first meeting, wereview the results of that
assessment.
And the reason I like it isbecause rather than just, taking
this assessment, we're able tolook at real data that says,
Hey, the questions you answeredindicate that spending gives you
a lot of joy.
Let's talk about that more andhow that feeds into your
financial habits, like your,your money mindset that can
(11:58):
drive the outcome ultimately ofyour financial plan.
So that first meeting we'rededicated entirely talking about
this money mindset and then wemeet another really 4 to 5 times
over that 4 month period tocover each of the technical
elements of building a financialplan.
(12:19):
And in every meeting.
We have deliverables where wewalk through those decks that
are customized to that client'sindividual situation.
Outside of that, I do use tech.
You know, I use a financialplanning software.
I use Right Capital.
And then also a budgeting toolthat's been really helpful for
clients is called Monarch Money.
(12:40):
And the reason I like that oneis that I kind of explain it as
a shining a flashlight on yourspend plan.
We can plan our cashflow all daylong, but unless we actually
look at what's happening, wewon't be able to move the needle
on some of those goals thatwe've laid out.
So it's kind of a multi prongedapproach from a deliverable
standpoint.
I often tell clients at thebeginning of the engagement,
(13:01):
you're not going to leave thisexperience with like a hundred
page document that just says,here's what you need to do.
Good luck, you can die at 99 andthis is what it'll look like.
It's much more iterative thanthat, but, we work together
along the way.
Shelby Nicholl (13:15):
That's great.
And then you've set up that planin those first four months.
Do you then meet with them on anongoing basis after that?
Or what does the engagement looklike after those first four
months?
Julia Lilly (13:26):
So those first four months sets the foundation.
And then once we're throughthere, they kind of graduate,
they still have access to thetools that we've shared, the
Monarch money and the rightcapital for a specific period of
time.
So rather than any kind ofsubscription tale, I really
wanted to try and align thevalue that the client receives
to what they're paying for thattime and effort that goes into
(13:48):
it.
So I touch base with clients,but then when things happen,
I've got a question about aninheritance or a bonus that
happened.
Where does it fit within myplan?
We schedule some time togetherand then they receive an invoice
for the hours that we worktogether.
Shelby Nicholl (14:03):
Okay, that's great.
I mean, I love the very, as yousaid at the very beginning, the
complete transparency of thisapproach and the empowerment
that you're giving them as well.
Julia Lilly (14:15):
I think it's a growing space.
you know, especially for theindividuals that just want to
say, I don't want to touch this.
I need someone else to place allthe trades.
I'm not the right solution forthem right now, but as we
continue to build out betterrobo platforms and things where
the investment management piececan just be kind of a set it and
forget it, this advice only,Partnership with a model like
(14:37):
that starts to really get somelegs.
So it's exciting.
It's growing.
There's a number of us that aremoving in this direction.
Shelby Nicholl (14:46):
I was doing some research and prep for this
podcast, and one of the things Iloved about your particular
website was that you kind ofnamed your ideal client.
Can you talk about who yourideal client is?
Julia Lilly (14:59):
They definitely need to be tech savvy to a
certain degree because I'm avirtual firm and we meet on the
computer.
for Houston clients, I have metin person, but primarily we meet
through tech.
So that's kind of the tablestakes.
And then from there, it'sindividuals who do feel
comfortable being in thedriver's seat of their plan, who
don't want to take what I callis more the ostrich approach,
(15:22):
you know, head in the sand, Idon't want to look at it.
Instead, they're interested inreally prioritizing their
financial picture and bringingit into focus.
So I would say those are the twobig kind of caveats.
And then as to where they are intheir life's journey, Where some
clients I'm working with earlieron in their careers, some are
(15:44):
more in that kind of the meat oftheir career.
And what does this look like andhow much longer do I need to do
the grind?
More looking for thatvalidation.
And then I've worked withclients that are on the doorstep
or just starting.
Retirement, really trying tomake sure that they're
structured correctly for thatdecumulation phase of life that
they're headed into.
Shelby Nicholl (16:04):
you also mentioned a moment ago that
you're a solopreneur.
it's a balancing act for sure asa solopreneur.
How did you know how to set upthis type of practice, right?
Cause it is a growing space.
It's a new way of doing thisbusiness in some ways.
how did you know how to set upyour practice?
What does compliance look like?
I know there's tons of likeoperational kind of questions in
(16:27):
here for me.
Julia Lilly (16:29):
So there are a ton of questions and some of it is
you try it, and figure it out asyou kind of continue to build
the ship while you're flying.
But there are a lot ofresources.
XY Planning Network was reallyinvaluable to me on just kind of
getting started.
And I had done a lot ofresearch.
So finding the right resourcesand building out my advisor
(16:52):
network on other individuals whoare going through this similar
journey.
I think we might have evenlaughed about this, Shelby, at
one of our earlierconversations, but these
mastermind groups are kind ofunique to the financial advisor
landscape.
I always laugh at the name.
I don't understand why we'recalled mastermind groups.
But those have been fantastic onmaking that solopreneur journey,
(17:13):
less isolating, less lonely, andreally a spot to throw ideas at,
ask for validation, ask forrecommendations.
That's where early on I got thecompliance suggestions.
the kind of what is your techstack look like?
How do you optimize?
All of that came from thosediscussions, as well as the
(17:33):
resources that were available tome.
When I first launched, I wasvery excited and passionate
about hourly.
And that's where I started.
But I've pivoted to where hourlyis great, but when I want to do
the approach I want to do whereit's less whack a mole is what I
described.
When you just do hourly, we'regoing to maybe solve a problem
(17:56):
over here and create anotherproblem over here.
So that to me felt toofrustrating where I wasn't
really helping the client lookat their whole picture.
I wanted to move away from, hey,this email took me 10 minutes
and I need to bill at thishourly rate.
The stickiness of that, there'senough inertia and friction to
people wanting to prioritize thefinancial planning tasks.
(18:19):
I wanted to remove that.
And so that's where I moved tothis four month planning journey
for a flat fee and then hourlyThereafter, again, trying to
make it as transparent aspossible, but remove the
friction of people beinghesitant to connect and not
wanting to prioritize movingthrough the journey.
instead these, some of theengagements would go on a year
(18:41):
versus really just making itdone so that they feel like
they're in a good spot.
Shelby Nicholl (18:46):
So I want to go back to one of the things that
you mentioned a moment ago,which was the mastermind groups.
because I think When people havekind of grown up in traditional
firms, you get that within yourregions, you get that within
your local office, etc.
And when you are a solopreneur,You have to seek out the
(19:08):
learning opportunities and thepeer group learning in a little
bit of a different way.
Talk about masterminds and howyou found those groups, are you
still part of one, et cetera.
Julia Lilly (19:22):
That's the hard part but the XY planning network
as part of a firm launch.
You get assigned to a mastermindgroup with other firms that are
in the same space.
And some are more active anddedicated members within that
group than others.
We started with probably 10 inour group.
And now there's a little cohortof three of us that meet more or
(19:42):
less every two weeks.
And it's really fantastic.
It's been, this whole journeyactually has been so cool on the
power of the internet.
To connect because I'm a virtualfirm and I'm located in Texas.
My mastermind group is Bay Areaand San Francisco.
And then the other woman is inTennessee.
We've never met in person, but Ifeel this strong connection with
(20:05):
them.
We've kind of gone through thisand we're growing up together
with the firms.
And that's been awesome.
And then NAPFA is another greatresource that's connected me
with more of a mentoring circle,creating some of that networking
opportunities as well.
It's really a matter of makingsure it's a priority that you
show up.
Even if you don't have apressing issue to solve.
(20:26):
One, you could learn from theother questions that get asked
by other people on the group.
You're able to bounce ideasnaturally off of people, but
when you're just in, I kind ofcall it the echo chamber.
I laughed with my group whereit's like, this sounded like a
great idea when I was justpitching it to myself, but how
does this sound againsteverybody else?
So it's been valuable.
(20:47):
Also partnering with even justthese other resources, like
SCORE is a program through theSmall Business Association.
I got paired with a mentor forfree.
It's a retiree who's specializedin marketing.
And all of those kind ofscaffolding together have helped
give me more of a sense ofcommunity as I embark on this
(21:08):
kind of solo journey.
It feels less isolating.
Shelby Nicholl (21:12):
That's wonderful.
I think it's, So important tofeel connection and being a
woman in this industry.
That's part of it, right?
There's so many more men thanthere are women, being a
solopreneur working from home,It is important to find those
connections.
One of the things I've beenthinking about, even for myself,
as I continue to build myconsulting practice connecting
(21:35):
with other people on specifictopics like marketing, etc.
And you mentioned, your mentorHas that been an approach that
you've done and has thatprovided value for you?
Julia Lilly (21:46):
Yeah, no, that was extremely valuable.
She was great.
Very thoughtful, super follow upnotes, really added value and
pushed me.
She served as the accountabilitypartner that I try to serve with
my clients.
We would meet and she'd be like,Hey, you said you were going to
do this.
What happened?
It was really, really valuable.
One other program I forgot tomention that I was part of is
(22:07):
that my husband was in themilitary.
And so I was eligible as amilitary spouse to join a
program called Bunker Labs.
that's a program six monthjourney where other
solopreneurs, otherentrepreneurs who are launching
things, it doesn't have to bejust financial services, but we
met on a weekly basis and thatit's all about finding the right
(22:30):
group.
That's going to hold youaccountable.
And keep you making progress.
Shelby Nicholl (22:34):
Yeah, I appreciate that so much.
I think that's where I'm at evenright now in my journey as a,
entrepreneur as well is findingthat scaffolding of people and
then also figuring out what arethe places that I like to work
and the things I like to do andwhat are the things that I need
to hire out, et cetera.
I think when you first goindependent or you become a
(22:56):
solopreneur, You're sortingthrough those things in real
time, like you said, buildingthe plane as you're flying it at
the same time.
Julia Lilly (23:03):
totally and trying to really do it all yourself
because you're bootstrapping andyou need to make it all as lean
and mean as possible, but thentrying to shift into, okay, that
growth mindset of not gettingstuck.
where do I want to be three tofive years?
And what do I need to put inplace to get there?
I recently just started using anAI note taker.
(23:24):
Realistically, I can take thenotes afterwards, but it's been
really nice.
One, to just feel like I'mstaying current with everything
that's happening in theindustry, but it's been also
great to help optimize myprocess.
Some of those notes that aregetting captured with the AI
note taker, Help alleviate someof the time and pressure that I
was putting on myself to takecopious notes.
(23:47):
I can use that as a tool toreference back to.
So it's finding those things toplug into, but it's also, you
don't know what you don't know,and you want to make sure
whatever you try works for thelonger term so that you're not
just too noisy and distractingfrom the work you're trying to
do.
Shelby Nicholl (24:05):
That's a great point.
Tell me about what you're doingin order to track maybe leads
and leads of potential clientsthat you might work with and
clients.
Do you use the CRM?
Is, are you at that point whereyou needed that yet?
Julia Lilly (24:20):
Yeah, I don't necessarily have to use the CRM
right now, but I really liketrying to create that as just
part of my workflow so that it'snatural, everything's documented
from a compliance standpoint,but I definitely use the CRM and
I've tried different pieceswithin the CRM to track not only
where they are in their journey,that they're currently clients,
(24:40):
but also building thoseworkflows to track Prospects,
who have I reached out to,tracking some of the marketing
efforts that I'm doing, the CRMis valuable for sure.
And using it before I think Ineed it.
You know, part of me in theearly days is like, Oh, it's
fine.
I can just do them in thespreadsheet, but the spreadsheet
becomes cumbersome and much moretime intensive quickly.
(25:02):
So that's the goal is to makesure that you're using those
tools to allow you to free uptime to do other things.
Shelby Nicholl (25:09):
That's right.
You know, you talked earlierabout kind of the growth in this
fee only as a method ofproviding advice and you talked
also about your practice andgrowth goals.
What are your growth goals foryour practice in these next few
years?
Julia Lilly (25:26):
where I am, I mean you're similar journey.
Time is the most preciouscommodity, you know, trying to
balance building this with theschool calendars.
I've got three young kids aswell.
So my five years is to continueto grow, but in a way that
doesn't completely burn me out.
And so finding that balance ofhow many clients on a regular
basis, I do think five to six.
(25:48):
Just myself is kind of right nowmy cap.
So maybe in two to three years,bringing on someone else to
continue to grow the business.
I'm excited about that beingkind of the growth strategy
going forward because My modeldoes require more time
intensive.
You know, it's not as much justget the assets into the accounts
(26:09):
and then I don't talk to someonemaybe for a year, maybe two
years, but I'm still gettingpaid by just having those assets
on my books.
Instead, mine is a more timeintensive journey.
And so marrying that balance ofkind of what's the right pricing
structure that I'm getting theright clients that want to work
with me as well as my staffingand kind of my expense side.
(26:31):
So, right now, I'm kind of inthe sweet spot, but in 3 to 5
years, my goal would behopefully to bring on another
planner that would take on someof that client work so that we
could grow the number of peoplewere able to serve.
Shelby Nicholl (26:43):
Oh, that's great.
I think you'll be able to reallygrow that impact in the clients,
like you said, let's talk aboutother trends and things that
you're seeing in financialplanning or in the operations of
a practice like you.
I love this AI conversation thatwe've been having.
what other things shouldadvisors be sort of looking for?
Julia Lilly (27:02):
The AI and just in general being tech first where
clients, you know, I don't seethem in person.
They're not bringing paperdocuments It's been fascinating
to me the psychology not only ofpeople's money, but then also
psychology around data andsharing It's been really
interesting some clients thatI've worked with don't want to
share any data They need toredact everything and I say,
(27:22):
okay, I want to work with you,but I have to To be able to see
some things.
And then there's other clientsthat are like, record it, put it
anywhere.
I don't care.
And they're sending, you know,emails with documents attached.
So it runs the gamut.
That's been one of the trickierparts is just making sure
everyone's educated on the rightchannels, being transparent with
the client.
(27:42):
I sometimes laugh that I'm a bitof the conspiracy theorist.
You know, I, I do have worriesabout data and data integrity,
so I might be overly concerned,but that's something that I'm
really passionate about makingsure that the client feels
confident that their data issafe.
It's in a third party vendor,you know, really trying to be as
(28:03):
open about how I'm managing allof that as possible.
So from an operationsstandpoint, that's the biggest
one for me that I worry about islike cyber security and, and
it's been interesting trying toeducate myself on all of that.
It's just an interesting worldon kind of how to manage the
operations and make sure you'redoing it correctly.
Shelby Nicholl (28:23):
what are some of the tools that you're using
there?
Are you using like a Dropbox oris Dropbox secure enough?
Or what are you choosing foryour data sharing, foldering
system?
Julia Lilly (28:33):
it's been a little all over the map, but I do lean
on those third party vendors tomake sure that they're following
their protocols.
The hard part is we can do thebest that we can and huge
industry players are stillhacked.
You know, so it's, it's atricky, to navigate and trying
to make the client feel asconfident as possible that I'm
(28:56):
doing the best I can to keep theinformation secure.
Shelby Nicholl (29:00):
Yeah, I especially love hearing that you
are not using Generally sendingthose documents through email,
etc.
I've heard of a couple of caseswhen I was still in the
corporate ranks and was workingon securities based lending
where even things like, ACHinstructions and wire
instructions Mid email string.
(29:22):
That email had been hacked andgave me the wrong wire
instructions as a bank and now Ihave wired money somewhere to a
fraudster, right?
Instead of it going to yourtitle company when you were
buying a home, as an example.
Julia Lilly (29:36):
Yeah.
It's, it is crazy.
One of my first jobs was workingactually at the Missouri,
Attorney General's office in theConsumer Protection Division.
So maybe that's what createdthis conspiracy theorist thing
in me of really beinghypervigilant on how sneaky some
of the things can be on grabbingemails or credit card data at
(29:58):
the grocery store.
it's definitely top of mind forme, especially when I'm trying
to implement and incorporatetech tools, in an efficient way.
Shelby Nicholl (30:07):
Absolutely.
Julia Lilly (30:08):
other piece of the planning process that I do, I'm
not a CPA, but I do help withtax strategy.
And so I do need clients taxreturns, which that for me is
the most sensitive data that Iget.
You know, I need statements, butit doesn't have social security
numbers on it, but the taxdocuments I do need.
And so the tool I use is calledHolista plan and I'm vigilant
(30:30):
on, and they do a great job ofdata security.
But those are the things that Iworry about as the business
owner to kind of think about myvulnerabilities.
Shelby Nicholl (30:39):
Yeah, you have a great tech stack.
RightCapital is so good.
HolistaPlan is really well knownand just a great tool.
I hear advisors all the timesinging the praises of
HolistaPlan.
for your CRM, are you usingWealthbox or what do you
Julia Lilly (30:53):
I use, I use Wealthbox.
Shelby Nicholl (30:55):
I'm a huge fan.
Huge fan of Wealthbox.
Yeah,
Julia Lilly (30:57):
and even Holista plan early on when you're like,
which ones am I going toincorporate?
You think, Oh, I can just lookat the returns myself.
It has been such a time saverand a fantastic tool to use on
the fly with clients.
It's invaluable.
Shelby Nicholl (31:11):
yeah, I hear a lot of times of advisors talking
about how they have found errorsin client tax returns by running
them through Holista plan.
And either then they can, youknow, choose to act on those or
not, but it's, it's aninteresting conversation
sometimes with their CPApartners as a result.
well we are coming up on timeand I want to ask kind of in
(31:32):
closing today, what is, what isyour advice that you would give
to other financial planners whoare considering the different
models and specifically this feefor advice fee for planning
approach.
Julia Lilly (31:47):
gosh, that's a great question.
So I would encourage people tolook around, talk with other
advisors who are doing thedifferent models to get a better
handle on the pros and cons,because there truly are pros and
cons to all of the models.
And just making sure thatwhatever route you choose.
That it's ethical, that it'sdone according to kind of the
(32:08):
way you feel passionate aboutdelivering financial services.
But I will just toot the horn ofrecommending exploring all the
options and talking to peoplebecause it is getting more
confusing and the kind oftraditional route of just going
insurance sales or that AUMmodel is evolving.
I think it's exciting to be partof.
(32:29):
It's just figuring out the rightway.
And how to partner where youdon't necessarily have to build
your own, but you can kind offold within a practice in order
to get that experience.
Shelby Nicholl (32:40):
One of the things I just love about this
interview and your story is howdeeply you are committed to
transparency and to transparencywith the clients and their fees,
transparency in how you work,etc.
Julia Lilly (32:56):
Yeah, it's exciting.
I'm keen on putting individualinvestors in the driver's seat
so that they feel moreknowledgeable about why they
hold different things in theirinvestment strategy.
But then broader than that even,it's the insurance, it's your
cash flow, it's what are yourgoals.
because it's a lot easier tomanage your budget.
(33:16):
When you're focused on, I wantto make sure I can retire at X
date or go on this huge trip andkeeping those in focus.
So, really trying to bring theholistic conversation I think it
really needs to be more on howwe can continue to help.
Impact clients earlier on theirjourney so that they can get to
the 3 million.
I was like, how can you be thatcoach and partner?
Shelby Nicholl (33:36):
I couldn't agree more.
Thank you so much, Julia, forbeing here today on the podcast.
I really appreciate it.
Julia Lilly (33:43):
Thank you for the conversation.
It was great.
It was great to see you andexcited to be part of your
Muriel network and just continueto see this space grow.
Shelby Nicholl (33:51):
Oh, I can't wait to hear about your practice
growth over the next severalyears.
I have no doubts that you'regoing to be so successful.
Thank you.
Julia Lilly (33:57):
Shelby great to see you.
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