#261 Brandon Forbes - How To Build A Successful Coaching Business in 2025 (Full Masterclass) - Kickoff Sessions

Episode Transcript
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Brandon Forbes (00:00):
Nine times out of 10, when someone's stuck in
their coaching business, it'sliterally something that could
be solved between their ears,not with a funnel.

Darren Lee (00:07):
How should someone position themselves to be able
to 10x their sales, 10x theirbusiness with ads and paid
traffic?

You have to understand that ads are not
magic.
All an ad is, in its simplestform, is just a magnifying glass
.
You actually have to have goodmessaging, a good sales process,
a good offer and know somethingabout what you're doing,
instead of trying to serveeveryone and be a general
physician, be a brain doctor andcharge more.
People are going to trust more.

(00:33):
There's less competition.
You can get more trust bycommunicating your values and
you can lower the competition bypicking a niche.

Darren Lee (00:40):
Before we start this podcast, I have one little
favor to ask you.
Can you please hit thesubscribe button down below so
we can help more people everysingle week.
Thank you, I guess where I wantto start is how do you think
the online coaching world ischanging going into 2025?

Dude, I just made a YouTube video about this.
Actually, it's literally calledhow the Online Coaching Space
is Changing in 2025.
I think a couple key things.
And, dude, I've actually beenin the coaching space for like
six years.
So I used to work for a ladynamed Brooke Castillo and she
did $50 to $70 million a yearwhile I worked there.

(01:18):
And I think how it's changingis Everybody's seen the
Instagram ads.
I run them.
We started the boosted post forfollower ad thing 2 years ago
and it's very quick marketing,kind of just burning and
churning through leads.
I think people are looking forauthenticity, they want to trust

(01:42):
people.
Again, the coaching industry,bro, we both know the trust is
at an all-time low and thecompetition is at an all-time
high and the only way to standout, in my opinion, is to have a
clear niche to attract peoplewho are like you or who look up
to you or want to have your lifeessentially.
So a niche, value systems likewe share similar values and

(02:08):
authenticity, so people wouldrather hear hey, bro, running
ads is a risk, scaling yourcoaching business is a risk.
Nothing is guaranteed, there'sno big promises, but I can show
you exactly what I did to gethere.
So I think how it's changing isyou're going to see a lot less
editing and a lot more just raw,real content, that's long form,

(02:31):
where people can get to knowyou, and I think if you don't
take advantage of YouTube andpodcasts, people are just going
to take your customers.

Darren Lee (02:41):
It's so interesting, right, because the barrier to
entry has never been lower, butthen the actual ability to grow
it has actually never beenharder, because there's always
this comparison effect.
It's always like, well, I couldgo to this guy and he's doing
IG, and then this guy is doingLinkedIn and this guy's doing
TikTok.
So where is that USP?
And I guess for you, what isthat USP?

(03:03):
Right, because it's you know,let's say, it's broad Instagram.
Someone clicks on yourInstagram.
How do you think about that?
Because, especially true ads,which I'd love to get really
fucking nerdy on, you don't havethat attention, right?
You don't have a ton of time tobe able to explain to someone
that you do X, y, z, yeah, sothe unique selling proposition?

is that what you mean?

Darren Lee (03:24):
Yeah, effectively Right, because you don't have
the same attention and time tobe able to get that across
unless you're super, superfocused.

Yeah, it's like dude.
I talk to people every day andthey're like dude, I'm stuck at
10K a month or I'm doing onlyorganic, or my ads aren't
getting a good return on adspend, dude.
Usually I don't even need toknow anything other than just a
few sentences.
So what did you say in thebeginning of the ad?
And they're like are you a busyentrepreneur who's wanting to

(03:56):
lose 50 pounds of weight?
Get shredded.
If so, give me a follow.
It's like, bro, that sucks.
Like that offer.
Like there's okay, a busy dude.
It's like, bro, that sucks thatoffer.
There's Okay, a busy dude.
That's almost everyone inAmerica, or half of the
population of the world.
So it's like I'll tell you anoffer that's crushing right now.
It's this guy who's like areyou a busy Catholic dude?

(04:18):
So it's like just by adding inone other piece of your value
system or another offer.
So everybody's coaching peopleon how to get a job in sales
right now, which is fine.
I think it's a good offer.
But this guy took a uniqueapproach and he was like are you
currently in tech sales andyou're wanting to find a career
where you can basically uncapyour income, work remote if so,

(04:41):
blah, blah blah.

Darren Lee (04:42):
So it's like by targeting that niche, niche, he
actually stood out and he's,yeah, making like 80k a month
now man, I love that becauseit's just, it's always one
degree left, you know, and youcan be one degree off and go
fucking to antarctica like I wasjust on a call earlier and we
were I was helping the clientscript out their ad and again, I

(05:02):
don't get mad at people whocoach coaches, but this is what
the person wanted to do.

I was like, are you sure you want to do this?
Are you good at it?
Have you done it yourself?
They're like, yes, yes, yes.
And I was like, okay, and thisperson's a digital nomad and
their ads weren't working.
And I was like, hang on, whatif you go after digital nomads?
Say this in the ad Are you adigital nomad who has or wants
to start a coaching business soyou can actually afford to

(05:28):
travel and live the life youwant, going from country to
country?
If so, give me a follow here.
So it's like that ad is goingto do so much better than Are
you an online coach stuckbetween 10k a month?
If so, so it's like, yeah, Ithink connecting on the values
is so key.
I did that on accident.
When I first started, I startedworking with Christian coaches

(05:50):
and I did it because I wanted to, but a good byproduct earlier
on was they trusted me so muchmore.
I didn't even mean for it tohappen and now we work with
everybody, but still a largeportion of the people that join
are like Dude I saw your faithand I love it and want to be a
part.

Darren Lee (06:08):
Dude, this is super interesting because my mate who
introduced me to your content,tom, and just one of my best
mates in general, we kind ofalways talk about this lens
because everyone knows yourbusiness is a reflection of you,
but people don't realize thatyour customers are a reflection
of you.
So you had seen that.
Come in and seen these peoplethat were aligned with your
values.
And I interviewed Dr JohnDemartini last week, who

(06:28):
basically has a fucking systemfor defining your values like an
entire checklist, a scorecard,whatever, and that's like your
highest priority, which againreflects in the world who you
are and attracts the oppositeeffect.
So basically, if you're anasshole, you're going to bring
people in that are an asshole.
Now, for someone who's you knowagain, 10k, 5k a month, they're

(06:51):
trying to stay alive.
How do you, how the hell do youdefine your values to create
that positioning, to be able toattract the big boys effectively
?

I actually think the quickest way to go from 5
or 10k a month to 30 to 50,right, that's kind of where you
can like hire a couple teammembers, like spend more on ads
and like actually have like abusiness it's not just like a
consulting firm or one man showwhich, totally fine, like if
that's what you want to do, it'sgreat.
Um, I would say the faster youpick a niche, the faster you

(07:24):
start making more money, likefor sure.
Yeah, because then you get thebenefit of Facebook ads who are.
Facebook is really really goodat targeting, bro, just based on
the video alone and the copy ofthe ad.
It knows how to get in front ofthe right people.
So if you let Facebook do thework, actually creating a

(07:47):
smaller sample size that areideal clients, instead of trying
to serve everyone and be ageneral physician, be a brain
doctor and charge more, peopleare going to trust more.
There's less competition.
So it's like what I said at thebeginning low trust, high
competition.
You can get more trust bycommunicating your values and

(08:08):
you can lower the competition bypicking a niche.

Darren Lee (08:11):
Dude, it's funny because my first online business
was seven years ago.
It was like an e-com store thatwent to zero and running ads.
Back then you needed to be afucking data scientist for, like
Stanford, right, it was soconfusing, whereas we've done
organic for so many years.
So, again, I have a podcast, wehave a podcast agency to keep
it simple, we've got podcastcoaching business.

(08:31):
So there's like a hybrid modeland we've done it organic.
But now we've moved into IG inthe past six months with my mate
and we've been doing kind ofthis model at a very low scale
because we're still warming upIG, because we've had LinkedIn
and YouTube just being the moatof the business.
Now I'm still a dumbass when itcomes to ads 100% but the
ability to spin them up and runthem is crazy.

(08:53):
In comparison to what it waslike before, it's never been
easier.
How do you think?
Again, ads are changing rightnow and how should someone
position themselves to be ableto 10x their sales, 10x their
business, with ads and paidtraffic?

Yeah, number one , you have to understand that
ads are not magic.
Like bro, seven years ago Iordered these what would Jesus
do bracelets?
Actually, I didn't order them,I got them on AliExpress or
Alibaba or whatever and I wasrunning ads to what Would Jesus
Do bracelets dropshipping, and Igot my first sale and I sold

(09:30):
the bracelet for $5.
And I spent $12 on ads.
So I lost $7.
But I sold something.
I was like, oh my gosh, this isamazing.
I'm going to be rich.
Never could figure it out.
And back then the belief in myhead was ads are super hard,
which maybe they were back then.
And people still believe thatthat ads are expensive, they're

(09:52):
confusing, but really all an adis, in its simplest form, is
just a magnifying glass.
So for someone to 10x theirbusiness, you actually have to
have good messaging, a goodsales process, a good offer and
know something about what you'redoing.
If all that's true and you havea good ad process, then yeah,

(10:15):
you can 10x your business justby figuring out your return on
ad spend.
And let's say it's going tosuck but still be scalable.
So let's say it's a 3.
So if you want to 10x yourbusiness, let's say you're doing
10k a month and you want to do100, then you need to spend 30
grand on ads roughly.
If you're getting a 3x returnon ad spend and you want to 10x

(10:37):
go from 10,000 to 100k, justassume you get a 3x return on
that.
But nobody's like Dude, I wantto go from 10 to 100 in one
month.
They're usually like bro, Ijust want to get to 20.
So then it's like spend yourfirst thousand bucks on ads,
2000 on ads.

Darren Lee (10:52):
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You know what's interesting,right?
So I've come from the organiccontent world almost five years.
When you've done those reps,thinking about how to run an ad
is so much easier because you'relike, oh, it's a hook, there is
copy, there's good production.
For the most part, I know youcan use your phone or whatever.
But it's like if you have themodalities from organic, you can

(11:57):
just go into paid and just like, basically have all the
components.
I'm not going to say you'regoing to crush it, obviously,
but you have the components.
But I think there's this weirdthing in the online space that
whatever you're doing, theopposite is bad.
So if you're doing organic, adsare bad, right, and I hate that
mentality.
I hate when something is likelooked at a true dot lens,
Whereas for me it's aboutintegration, especially five

(12:21):
years into it, after gettingeating humble pie and getting
nailed for fucking four years.
There's a component of likelet's try integrate everything.
And I want to kind of get yourthoughts on how you do organic
plus paid, because that seemslike to me it's like steroids on
top of the steroids on top ofthe steroids yeah, dude.

So for me, like I mean, I get it it's like
organic, paid, but I don't evenview it that way.
For instance, and let's say, onmy instagram funnel, just you
know to say I'm running an ad toget instagram followers.
That's paid.
But at the same time, if a reelgoes semi-viral and I get

(13:03):
followers from the reel, thatthat's still the top of funnel,
so they're very similar.
And then it's like, okay, inthe middle of the funnel I'm
running a retargeting ad.
Hey, I'm looking to helpsomebody do this.
Message me the word scale tolearn more.
I could just post an Instagramstory of the same ad.
That's organic.
And then the bottom of thefunnel.

(13:23):
They get through the funnel andthen they watch my VSL before
the call.
If it was an organic, watch myVSL.
So I actually view them as thesame.
It's like the same thing.
Basically, it's just with adsthe only pro is that you can pay
to scale it and the only con isthat you have to pay to scale

(13:44):
it.
So it's like it costs money,but it's scalable and organic,
it's free, and the only con isit's not scalable, unless you're
someone like you probably,who's got it dialed in to where
you're like Dude, I could justdo two extra podcasts a week and
it happens.
But it's like most people withorganic at least don't have that

(14:07):
mindset, skill or, uh, thediscipline, so it's like they're
not gonna do the work but, dude, it's funny because it's
fucking not free, right, becausethere's literally the cost.

Darren Lee (14:19):
You know, I have an editor, designer, ops, manager,
a bunch of shit.
Then there's the cameras likeI'm staring down cameras that
would literally put you on astreet, they're so expensive.
And then there's also the timeinvestment, right, which is like
me in Instagram, like writingcopy.
So it's not free, right.
And I think the more higherlevel you're playing is like oh,

(14:40):
my fucking God, is there just afaster, higher point of
leverage way for me to get tothis?
Because the podcast is thepodcast, but because it's like
middle of the funnel, you knowyou're getting less views.
It's less consumption, it'smore about avd and you know,
lifetime, uh, consumption, allthis kind of stuff.
It's kind of like a differentmetric.
You know, when you go reallydetailed on it, it's like every

(15:02):
action has an equal or oppositereaction and most people don't
know what the output and outcomevariable is for their input.
So they're like I did a podcastand now I'm not making a
hundred K a month, it's like.
But that wasn't the goal of thepodcast, though.
Like, that's not like the maingoal, right.
And of course there's uh, Iheard about this before and who

(15:22):
said it, which is like you know,your product or offer should
have one major benefit, becauseall of the other sub benefits
they're kind of just.
They're like known, forinstance, if you lose body fat,
you're going to become moreconfident, you'll tone up,
you'll have more charisma.
So you don't need to fuckingsay that in the headline.
There's just one main goal andI think that through the lens of

(15:45):
like which vehicle you're usingto, but I just think that most
people don't think when they'redoing this shit right in 2025.

The problem is, bro, as a beginner coach, I
remember watching all theYouTube videos, following all
the different people, and it'slike dude, am I going to do the
IG funnel?
Am I going to do organic?
Am I going to do the Facebookgroup method?
Am I going to cold DM people?
Am I going to get a challengefunnel, vsl, webinar, what the
heck am I going to do?

(16:21):
One funnel away challenge.
That's what I'm going to andit's like, bro, the reality is
they all work.
One of my favorite things totell people is get a piece of
cardboard, write it down.
Write down a sentence that saysAre you struggling with X?
For instance, if we wrote downAre you struggling being a good

(16:44):
parent?
On a piece of cardboard andwalked into a coffee shop, if we
stood there long enough,someone would walk up to us and
say, bro, I'm struggling, why doyou have this sign?
And you could actually closethem in the coffee shop.
So it's like there's so manyways to market, right, so you

(17:05):
just got to pick what's simpleand works for you.

Darren Lee (17:07):
That's so good man, it's so fucking true.
Right, it's in the complexitycomes.
So I think the way I positionis that everything works when
you work and it is that simple.
It's just that you make itcomplex to hide from the truth
that sometimes it is as simpleas cardboard box offer.

but my the offer .

Darren Lee (17:28):
It can be as simple as that, but let's make this
actionable for people.
So what is your?
What would be your approachlike?
Where is step one for you andwhere would you go to?
Let's say, go from 10K to 100Knext year a month.
What's that process for you?
Because, again, you can pickmultiple vehicles.

I call it market stacking.
So it's like step one of like,if you're building blocks is
like let's say this is the firststep is like get the easiest,
fastest, simplest, cheapestfunnel going, and for me that's
usually Instagram, unlesssomeone is like I have no money.
Then it's like okay, do organic.

(18:05):
But for me it's usually theInstagram funnel because you can
record one simple video pressboost and within the first $200
to $500, book your first call Inmost cases maybe $1,000, which
is so cheap if we're talking inads and then scale that thing to
$30K to $50K a month becauseyou have a good setting, sales

(18:26):
and delivery process.
If those three are good, youcan scale almost any funnel.
And then the second one is youwant to find a funnel that's
medium, like level medium,what's something that takes a
little bit more time to set up,something like a school group
funnel, a VSL funnel running adsto your YouTube channel,
something like that.
That's a little bit harder todo, a little bit more expensive

(18:50):
to prove if it's going to workand harder to copy.
And then you're moreestablished.
You've got more cash in thebank, you've got people you're
competing against.
It's like.
The last one is like find onethat's super hard to copy, that
takes a ton of testing, thatcosts a lot of money to
implement.

(19:10):
So no one else will do it andyou'll have an advantage and
you'll have a lot of differentways to make money.
But that's the example I teachis like, dude, just start simple
, as fast as cheapest way, thenget good at it, stick to it for
six months to a year, thenimplement something new and do

(19:30):
both.
But a lot of people, dude I'veseen it time and time again
they're doing 50k a month on aVSL funnel, let's say.
And then they see the IG growthfunnel and they're like I'm
going to turn my VSL off andthen I'm going to do the
Instagram funnel.
It's like, why the heck wouldyou do that?
Keep that going and then layersomething on top of it and then

(19:50):
kind of build like that it'sfunny, right, it's almost like a
sense of self-sabotage.

Darren Lee (20:04):
I often hear as well that people get that 20k a
month right and they're like, oh, I'm bored, like I want to try
something else.
I'm bored.
It's like what the fuck youtalking about?
Like just do what's workingright.
So I think it's justinteresting for me to view that
because, again, we run you notnecessarily youtube, well, it is
youtube funnel, I guess tomoney, to credit, but we're
creating podcasts on youtube,building that trust, and then on
linkedin.
I know it's super like woke andwhatnot, but I still use it as,
like our main source of contentbecause people are there to buy
and be educated and that'sworked so well.

(20:25):
So for me, to go into ig wasactually a big uplift because
it's like I need to keep thesetwo things running and keep it
dialed in and then add in athird.
And you know that's where wekind of went from six figures a
month to trying to get to likemulti six figures a month.
They're not there yet, but butI just mean we have, like the
infrastructure.
So it's like I guess it goesback to the point of us scale it
, get it better and so on.

(20:45):
Now you said the medium levelof the game.
How do you think about workshopfunnels?
Your videos on it are superawesome.
Why do some people crush it andwhy do some people don't get
people even showing up on aworkshop funnel?

Perfect example.
I had a client.
He's a fitness coach, I won'tsay his name.
He did a workshop.
Two people registered.
So I like to just tell honeststories.
So there's that extreme and it'slike he didn't make any money
which there are some things thatcould have been better but he

(21:22):
hadn't been cultivating anaudience.
My point here is, if you don'thave an audience and you haven't
been serving them, a workshopis going to flop.
But then I have another clientwho's a former NFL athlete with
500,000 followers.
He's been serving, serving,serving, making content for
years, did a three-day challenge, which is basically the same
thing as a workshop, and did 100grand organic from that

(21:44):
challenge.
So I think the purpose theyserve is to move someone from
one stage to the next.
So if they're cold right now,it's to get them to warm, and if
somebody's in your audiencethat's warm, it's to get them on
the workshop.
So then they become hot and ifthey're hot, it's to move that
percentage of people from hotinto purchasing.

(22:07):
So I just think of it as a waythat anyone who registers and
attends basically just moves astep forward in the buying
process.
Now that's, if you suck, if youget good, you can convert half
of them from cold to hot inthose three days.
Depending on who's all on thecall.

(22:28):
You can convert more, but Ijust think it's a way to once a
quarter, once a month, dependingon how much you're spending on
ads and how much attention youhave to just take time, put it
into a workshop.
It's great content forrepurposing and then you end up
signing clients from it.

Darren Lee (22:45):
So what's the workflow?
So let's say your generalfollower ad on IG, because not
everyone.
I know that.
You know that everyone thinksthat this is normal, but it's
actually not, man.
Honestly, for a lot of guysthey don't know fully about this
, but your general follower adfollows you to the page when
you're now going for a workshop.
Do you have an ad running intothe workshop as a sign-up?

Yeah.
So, for instance, let's say, ifsomebody listening is like,
dude, I want to do a workshop,right, depending on what stage
they're at.
I would recommend doing yourfirst one organic, and actually
I do most of mine organic, soit's basically just the middle
of funnel for me, but you canalso run ads to it.
So the way I actually startedthis business was doing a paid

(23:31):
three-day challenge.
So it was like Yo, are you aChristian online coach
struggling with blah, blah, blah?
If so, come to my three-dayKingdom Coach Challenge where
I'm going to show you for thenext three days how to build
your offer, market it and sellit.
And then it was just a Zoomcall with three days, but yeah.
So obviously the first one mightnot be the best.

(23:53):
You're learning your skill, butthe whole goal is it's
basically like a VSL.
So the intro day one you wantto tell people your story so
they trust you and can relate toyou.
You attract the right fits,repel the wrong fits.
Then you want to give themhomework and something valuable.
So for me, build people'soffers and then give them
homework to create their uniquemechanism or messaging.

(24:16):
Day two give them another pieceof the puzzle marketing.
Day three, another piece salesand then basically, hey, there's
two options.
I just showed you, for instance, how to lose 50 pounds in three
days by getting your mindset,diet and food in order or
workouts in order.
You can either do all thisyourself or I have this program

(24:38):
where we come alongside you tohelp you implement and then you
just pitch a call.

Darren Lee (24:41):
One thing I noticed on that was that you were from
the workshop.
The next step in the funnel wasa call instead of a straight
buy.
That's interesting.
Why is that?
Which funnel Do you remember?
I was looking at your work asin, you were explaining the
workshop funnel and then youmentioned that from there.
It was because, even just togive a bit of context, we ran a
very high ticket.
So we're part of our business,we run podcasts, we run their

(25:04):
offers on the back end, but weran a very high ticket.
It was a 6K program but it wasa straight buy off the workshop.
And my logic with this was Iwonder if we were able to just
fill up a calendar, it wouldhave been better?
I think it probably would have.
I think it probably would have.

So I've tested both and, from what I've seen,
unless it's sub 2K, just book acall.
It's like posting on your storyand saying, hey, I've got this
program that's six grand.
Or at the end of your YouTubevideo saying like, hey, thanks
for watching the video.
I do have a program that's6,000 bucks, though If you want

(25:41):
to buy it, click the link downbelow to buy it.
It's like you're going to getway more conversions if you just
book in a call.
So if a workshop's over $2K, atthe end you pitch calls and you
get a ton like a lot of calls,and then, if it's sub $2K, you
could pitch just directly on thecall.

Darren Lee (26:00):
That's interesting, man.
What do you think about?
Have you considered differentpricing strategies?
So we run for our program werun a weekly pricing which is
from Dan Bolt and James Kemp andthat's to alleviate the call
stressor.
So, because our program is intrash, we've never had anyone
turn on the weekly pricing andmost people ascend three weeks

(26:22):
in.
That's actually.
The logic is that people arelike so I'll give you some
context it's $2.50 a week, can'tsell in time, no marriage
certificate needed, and then youcan ascend as you like with a
discount offer, so of the year.
So it's basically like not azero risk offer, but it's a
limitless risk.
Increasing sales velocity,increasing the amount you sell
versus the call funnel, like?
Have you considered differentpricing strategies?

(26:43):
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Yeah, so I actually did that, but I did it
different my base offer, highticket, mid offer, high ticket
still, and then my mastermindwas paid on a weekly basis.
So instead of entry point, itwas actually my highest point,
where you could break it intoweeklies, and I think it works

(27:41):
best that way for me.
Now, if you're not runningsetters and closers, then sure,
weekly is fine.
It's actually great, so long asyou have a good product, you're
attracting the right peoplethat plan to stay.
If you sell just a quick fix,people oftentimes, from what
I've seen, just buy your programand then churn After you get

(28:04):
under the hood of a lot of thepeople that I've seen doing
weekly pay, it's like bro, yourchurn rate is 40%, so your
average cash collected perclient is actually $2,500.
Versus, if you were justcharging and attracting people
that can pay high ticket, youcould get way more cash
collected.
But again, it's like what'syour offer?

(28:27):
Who are you trying to serve?
What's the goal of the business?
Because one thing I thinkthat's changing in 25 too is I
don't think everybody's going tobe trying to build 100k a month
business, because what I foundout I bet you found this out too
money doesn't even make youhappy, like honestly, it's like
unless you're like called to dothis, it's actually adding a

(28:48):
bunch of unneeded stress thatdoesn't even need to be there.
Most people I used to driveUber and I served at a
restaurant Most people would beperfectly happy making $20,000 a
month $15,000, if they lovedwhat they're doing, could travel
and save for retirement.
So I think a lot more peopleare going to be going after that

(29:13):
goal.
I think you'll see a lot ofpeople actually shutting down
their business and just doinglike a consulting gig.
But for those that are calledand feel like dude, I want to
build an actual business.

Darren Lee (29:26):
Yeah, I think it's great.
That's a very interestingobservation.
James Kemp often says thatpeople don't want a business.
They want cash flow that feedstheir life.

Yeah.

Darren Lee (29:33):
Such a good point, right?
I think that a lot of peopleit's important to know what
you're optimizing for, because alot of people who are
entrepreneurs shouldn't havebeen entrepreneurs in the first
place.
A lot of people who work injobs shouldn't work in jobs.
They should be entrepreneurs.
There should be that clear lineof delineation.
Whereas, like dude, like youknow your values, you have a
family, your second kid's on theway, you kind of know what

(30:00):
you're doing and you've devisedyour own path.
Even I said to you earlier Iwas like I don't know how the
fuck you have children andeverything that's so difficult
to manage with what you're doing.
But you have built thatfoundation to be like no, this
is my clear line, I know wheremy lines are, whereas a lot of
people are just doing otherpeople's jobs.
And I don't know if you'refamiliar with Matt Shields.
I haven't watched the video,but Matt has kind of not really.
He's done a lot of changes withhis own life, especially with

(30:21):
his fate, quite recently in thepast year or two, and he put up
a video yesterday about how toescape the online business rat
race.
That was the whole logic was hewas like I finally escaped it.
Now he's made nearly eightfigures at this point.
But it's a very interestingobservation right that you swap
one rat race for the next one,and now you're caught in this
perpetual loop 100%.

It's like you swap high ticket payments for
recurring revenue but then youjust go right back to like how
can I get the most recurringrevenue out of anyone ever?
And it's like you stoprecurring revenue.
Then it's like, how can I builda high-ticket program that's
super expensive, and then it'sjust like all this stuff that a
lot of times I've found isactually just like insecurities

(31:06):
inside of people and they'rejust like looking for that thing
that's going to satisfy them.
But I've found, similar to Matt, that like literally nothing
does that except for me at least, is like god right dude, that's
very interesting.

Darren Lee (31:19):
Like I think uh, you know it's, agencies are a low
hanging fruit for people to shiton, right?
They say, oh well, you know youhave all these bosses, and the
way hormosi puts it is like in,your customers are also your
boss, right?
Like if you're running aprogram, you can't just ditch
them.
That's not, you can't really dothat, right?
So you are always kind ofserving your people, the people

(31:40):
that you sell to you're servingthem.
So I think you don't need tolook for the next business model
so that you have an easier life.
There's challenges witheverything, right?
So, because we run both anagency model and a coaching
business, in my eyes they'revery similar in terms of how we
approach customers, becausecustomers are people and we want
to just be nice to people ingeneral.

(32:01):
So, for me, I still get back topeople on fucking whatsapp if
they message me.
I'll send them a voice if theyneed to.
So it's looking through thelens as to, again, what are your
values, how do you want tobuild this and what are the
modalities we need to build agood business so that it feeds
our life effectively?
Yeah, that's so true.
Let's walk through some of thedifferent components of the

(32:22):
mindset side.
So I think, looking across yourspectrum of mindset, offer,
marketing, sales and team why doyou put such a big proponent on
the mindset side?

I think the most important, ultimately, is
identity.
Who you truly believe you areis how you're going to show up,
and how you show up is howyou're going to make content,
how you're going to make offersand how you're going to coach
your students.
And it's like a lot of peopledon't think that they're

(32:51):
qualified, they think thatthey're not worthy, they
self-sabotage after they get alittle bit of success or
actually I'll say this, I think,nine times out of 10, when
someone's stuck in theircoaching business, it's
literally something that couldbe solved between their ears,
not with a funnel.

Darren Lee (33:10):
So true, man, so true.
It's because I think a lot ofpeople they haven't done the
internal work to like be at thestage you need to get that, get
to.
You know, it's almost like youneed to imagine you have that
successful business before youhave it.
But you don't want to bedelusional.
You want to obviously do theactions to get to that goal, but

(33:31):
it's like you need to firstalmost visualize it and then do
a shit ton of actions.
For sure, a lot of peopleeither do both, do none.
They either take a ton ofaction, go in circles, or they
visualize something and thenthey just procrastinate and
masturbate on the idea in theirbrain.
They're not really thinkingabout it.
How do you, how have youthought about that?
Right, because I know you do alot of internal work on this.

(33:53):
What element do you focus on?
Was that from maybe doing a lotof research into the Bible?

Dude, I would say the work, at least in my
belief system, is a lot ofpeople want to have what other
people have.
People listening to thispodcast are like, oh, brandon,
both of you guys are doing oversix figures a month.
That's awesome, I want that.
So they want to have what wehave.
So what they do is they try todo what we do, like, oh, I'm

(34:24):
going to start a podcast.
Somebody listening to thisright now could be like I'm
going to copy you and start apodcast or I'm going to launch a
follower ad.
But they don't want to becomewho we are.
So you have to be first, thendo and then you can have, which
comes down to an identity issue,where most people don't know
who they are, and I believe, forinstance, my son Jedediah.

(34:48):
He knows who he is because heknows that he's my son, and I
know who he is because I madehim right, or he's going to at
least grow up and understandthat I'm Brandon's son, right,
that's my dad, and I think inthe same way with God.
It's impossible to know yourtrue identity until you know who

(35:10):
made you right, and people arelike, well, I don't know if
God's real.
So then it's like I mean atleast that's my belief system is
the best way to know who youare is to understand who you are
.
And then from that place it'sliterally, bro, like looking
into the Bible.
Even people who aren'tbelievers.
I'm like dude, just like chatGPT all the verses in this book

(35:34):
and see what it says about you.
People are like dude, I don'tbelieve the Bible.
Then it's like why is it thebest selling book ever?
Why does the calendar changewhen Muhammad died or whatever?
And I'm like it didn't.
It changed when Jesus diedafter death?
Right, so there's two big,significant things that have at
least lived for over 2000 yearsthat are worth looking into.

(35:56):
Some of the truths that are inthe book you don't have to
believe it, but what I've foundis it's actually a blueprint to
building businesses and your ownbelief system.
So, yeah, not to go on atangent there, but I think
that's the most important thing,bro, is understanding identity.

Darren Lee (36:15):
I completely agree with you.
Like I grew up in a verychristian catholic area like
ireland is christian catholic,but especially in the early
2000s it was a lot more.
Now it's pretty much not, let'sput it that way.
But you know, back then you hadlike the 10 commandments
literally being drilled into youin school and I just my logic

(36:36):
is like, whether you believe itnot, that's just a good way to
just live in general, just likebe nice, don't cheat on your
partner, don't cheat on yourneighbor, don't do anything like
violent to people.
So at the very least, I thinkwe can all agree it's just like
a North Star narrative at theend of the day.

(36:57):
So whether you say that, youbelieve it or not, surely that's
just a good way to be.
You can't look at that andthink you know what I'm actually
going to fuck over my neighboras a result, like that's just
the wrong way to look atanything when you don't need to
be like I believe this and nowI'm in in this belief system,
and I imagine that goes the samewith a lot of other religions
and also other elements of evenspirituality.

(37:17):
The more you look into it.
So it's like I just think again, it goes back to these, these
hard beliefs that I think thatpeople don't really believe.
They were just kind ofimprinted it.
It's like here have this beliefand oh, okay, now I encapsulate
that, but the truth, man, isalmost like you look at it
yourself yeah, and I thinkoutside of religion, because
that could create a box wherewhat I said only applies to that

(37:37):
group.

I would actually make it more broad and say if
you believe that, you, there's alot of beliefs that maybe we
carried from our childhood.
Like I said earlier, I grew upin a trailer house eating ramen
noodles, right.
So with that there was a lot ofbeliefs that I couldn't make
money.
I'm always going to be this way.
My parents were broke, I'mgoing to be broke, and it's like
those are sentences.

(37:58):
All thoughts are sentences.
So it's like we say thesesentences in our mind and they
drop down and we start tobelieve them, and then it
changes our feelings, ouractions and our results.
You can never change yourcircumstance just by luck, at
least in my belief.

(38:18):
So it's like if yourcircumstance is $10K a month and
you want to get to $100K, theonly way you're going to change
that result and get to the $100Ka month is by changing
something up here.
Even if a funnel helps you getthere, you at least have to
change your belief to say I'mstuck at $10K a month, but I'm
good enough to make 100.
And then guess what?

(38:39):
You're going to feel confidentenough to launch an ad, you're
going to take the right actionto spend enough to get to the
result.
So it's like many people, it'sjust a mindset that they can't
have it, that their offer isn'tgood enough, that 100K a month
is only for the two guys on thepodcast right now and it's like,
no, you could do it too.
You just have to see what'spossible and believe it.

Darren Lee (39:01):
When did you kind of Did you always have this belief
system or did you look moreinto the Bible?
What was your evolution withthis?

Yeah, I got sick and tired of being broke and
then working for Brooke.
Out of any of the coaches weknow in the space, I don't know
one that makes more uh than herbased on how well of an oiled
machine.
Personally like, she to me wasfreaking awesome at what she did
and I saw how much money shewas making and I was like if she

(39:32):
can do it, I could do it.
And that was her whole mottowas like be an example of what's
possible.
So for us, right now, on thispodcast, we're an example to
everyone listening of what'spossible.
So that key, but it never.
That's when I knew it waspossible.
But I kept trying, trying,failure, failure, failure, this

(39:53):
business, failed agency, failed,all these other things.
But what shifted for me waswhen I applied something that
the Bible teaches, which wastithing and offering.
So, instead of how can I make$10,000 a month?
I literally remember I was likehow can I give away 10 grand a

(40:14):
month?
So I started shifting to beinggenerous and and like wanting to
bless people to and give moneyaway, and like how can it be a
blessing to other people?
And then I started to make moremoney.
It's the energy you emit right.

Darren Lee (40:24):
The energy you give out is energy you receive, and I
think the fact that most peopleare in it for themselves with a
scarcity mindset maybe just dueto programming, maybe it's not
intentional that leads to arestrictive nature, that leads
to you know, you're not wantingto hop on this podcast, you're
not wanting to share yourinsight, but like you give it
all away, like you couldliterally watch your YouTube and

(40:46):
build like a 10 million a yearbusiness, like it's quite
literally that obvious, like youcould literally do it, and you
also have, like your ads beinglike you say this word in this
position.
So that means that you're ableto attract the 200k, the 200k a
month, and also just coolfucking people, right, just cool
people that open your eyes toother things, not just the money

(41:07):
on a screen, equivalent.
Yeah, exactly, I want to say abig thank you, man.
I really appreciate this.
I would love to do a secondpodcast becomes american next
year.
We could sit down for two hours, have a coffee, chill and
really get into like the nitsand nitty gritty of the
components.
But, man, big thank you to you.

Dude.
I would love that bro Honor tobe here.
Dude.

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#261 Brandon Forbes - How To Build A Successful Coaching Business in 2025 (Full Masterclass)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#261 Brandon Forbes - How To Build A Successful Coaching Business in 2025 (Full Masterclass)