#286 Paul Daley - The Real Reason Most Coaching Businesses FAIL - Kickoff Sessions

Episode Transcript
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Paul Daley (00:00):
The day you stop doing what you're teaching
people is just a really roughday.
I'll put it that way You'regoing from agency and you're
having info for agencies, butyou don't run an agency anymore.
It just becomes a lot harderfor you to be the agency guy at
that point.

Darren Lee (00:10):
Why do so many coaching programs fail?

Paul Daley (00:14):
Realistically, if you look at a coaching company,
most of the time there's no realproduct emphasis or product
that they're selling.
They're selling intelligence orinformation, but the
information is not deliveredeffectively and so,
realistically, the product isn'tthere.

Darren Lee (00:26):
Most founders build businesses, but very few build
businesses that they're trulyaligned with.
In today's podcast, we'rejoined with Paul Daly, ceo,
entrepreneur and creator, whospent his career not just
building businesses but buildinga mission he actually believes
in.
We break down why so manyfounders stay stuck, the silent
traps that kill real progression, and how aligning your business

(00:48):
to a bigger purpose is the realunlock for scaling beyond
success into significance.
If you're serious aboutbuilding a business that
outlives you and not justrunning onto a hamster wheel,
this is the episode you need tohear how and why, specifically
why do so many coaching programsfail?

Paul Daley (01:09):
Before anything, I was watching some of our last
podcast in the car to the officetoday, and I watched the first
five minutes and I saw in thefirst five like my reaction is
the same reaction I want to haveright now.
You asked me this question andI was like wow, out of the gate,
that's a hard question, youknow, and I feel like I want to
have right now.
You asked me this question andI was like wow, out of the gate,
that's a hard question, and Ifeel like I want to say the
exact same thing now.
You didn't warm up or introinto it.

(01:31):
We're having a goodconversation and then
immediately into a deep question.
I think the answer is relativelysimple, though, and it's
because Okay, so realistically,with a coaching offer, there's
no barrier of entry on productin order to start, and so you
can start something with noproduct, start selling it, do a
little bit of like you know,coaching.

(01:51):
Then maybe you start to makesome videos or whatever being
put in a G drive, real productemphasis or product that they're
selling.
They're selling intelligence orinformation, but the
information is not deliveredeffectively, and so,
realistically, the product isn'tthere and the main asset that

(02:13):
the company has is their salessystems, and so most info or
companies, coaching companies,et cetera I would say they fail
because they don't have aproduct, and because they don't
have a product, they don'treally tend to have a moat, and
so one of the things I've reallybeen thinking about and looking
at lately are moats in business.
Are you familiar with the topicof, like a moat?
Cool, yeah, the edge, but alsonot just the edge, but the thing

(02:35):
that you have well, yeah, Iguess, edge, the thing that you
have that makes you impossibleto copy right.
So let's like, look at infocompanies, example, given, that
have very strong modes.
You have Iman and his info andthe emotes that he has is that
he has an insane audience.
You know size, insane audience,buy-in.
He has insane product qualitybecause everything is custom

(02:58):
software.
You know dozens of hours pouredinto probably one video for
editing and such.
So product quality is there.
You know how the product ishosted, is there.
The information of the productis unique because it comes from
Iman, who has experience doingwhat he's talking about.
The audience is a moat in itsown.
So those are all moats.
Then you can go to Dave Ramsey,for example, given, and his

(03:19):
moat is the decades of socialproof and case studies that he
has in showing that what his youknow model for financial
savings looks like.
And so when you look at infoproducts that have moats example
given, like Masterclass, theirentire enterprise value is
probably based on and you cancall Masterclass an info product
, right, or an e-learningcompany, and so Masterclass,
their moat is based on thespeakers inside of Masterclass

(03:43):
and the intellectual property,the IP that they have with those
speakers being in there, thatno one else can have right.
So no one else will ever haveGordon Ramsey and Gary Kasparov
and all these guys in therespeaking on whatever their
certain subjects are.
So that's a moat and so,realistically, most coaching
companies just don't have a moat.
They'd have nothing that makesthem special.
They have no edge.
They have nothing that makesthem special.

(04:05):
They have no edge.
They have nothing that you knowkeeps people from copying them.
They have really no product.
And when you don't have product,you're not going to have people
giving you referrals and youknow and coming in and such.
You're going to have peoplechurning quickly.
All to say, the only thing thatthey do is they sell and you
can only sell for so long beforeno product catches up.
You know no product catches up,you know, and so I would say
that's probably you know, one ofthe biggest things you know.

(04:26):
And then you can get into like,if you have an audience, a lot
of people who have audiencesstill will launch an e-learning
or an info and it'll still fail.
And it's normally because youknow.
If you have audience and that'swhy you can sell, then the
audience that you have willeventually hear about the bad
product that you have.
And then the you know, bad PRspreads like cancer.
It's very, very fast.
Good PR takes forever to spread.
It takes 20 years to build agood reputation.

(04:46):
It takes five seconds todestroy this Warren Buffett
right.
And so if you have a badproduct, people will know about
it much more quickly than if youhave a good product.
And so there and you know,realistically, if you, if you
have audience, that's one of thedownfalls that comes.
If you don't have an audienceand you're just selling and
selling, selling, whether it'soutbound ads, et cetera
Eventually ad arbitrage doesn'twork, gets too expensive.
Diminishing return ads get tooexpensive.

(05:07):
If you don't have a goodproduct, where people are
staying in, increasing LTV etcetera, you won't be able to run
it that way, and so it's just.
At the end of the day, it allcomes down to most coaching
companies just don't have anactual product.
That's what I would say.

Darren Lee (05:18):
Just want to take one quick break to ask you one
question have you been enjoyingthese episodes?
Because, if you have, I'dreally appreciate if you
subscribe to the channel so thatmore people can see these
episodes and be influenced tobuild an online business this
year.
Thank you.
It's very strange to me thatpeople would push a product that
they don't know themselvesinside out and have an edge

(05:40):
right Like your edge has been ineducation, working with Iman.
Edge was being, which has beenan education work with Iman.
My edge, hopefully, has been inpodcasting, learning like all
the nitty-gritty, boring stufffor five years when all my high
school friends like try to mockme.
Right, like that was that gaveme the edge to be like oh, the
thumbnail should be thisproportionate edge.
Right, it just it seems socrazy to me that someone would

(06:02):
even want to start a program andstart an offer like that and
that's why it all sounds thesame.
You know, like everything likesounds the same and this is like
the it just it's just crazy tome the reason why people would
even consider to be able to dothat.
Right, because I would thinkthat the product would need to
be sound before anything.
You know, the lean startupapproach is that you set up
before you build it, but intheory, it.

(06:23):
It should almost be theopposite way in terms of like,
do you have the acquisition andthe knowledge to be able to
build something that is worthselling Right?
It's a complete differentreframe.

Paul Daley (06:32):
Yeah, I think the lean startup idea is almost more
toward things that take time tobuild, right?
Well, okay, I'm saying that ininfo doesn't take time to build.
But to what you said firstabout everything looking the
same, you can think of all thecompanies instantly that have
information to sell, that juststand out among the crowd and
it's because they know whatthey're talking about or they

(06:54):
have some unique moat, right.
And so if you think about ColeGordon example, given Cole I
think is a fantastic example ofan info that's impossible to
replicate, because the amount ofnumber one, the IP in there, is
crazy valuable.
Number two is the amount oftraining in there and the
in-depth training of it.
I mean, it would take you quiteliterally just recording

(07:16):
probably a hundred somethinghours of recording time to
actually duplicate what Cole did.
If you just wanted to say, hey,I'm going to take Cole's exact
program and copy all the coursecourse content, it would
probably take well over ahundred hours of you literally
just in front of loom, which isa moat in its own, because a lot
of people aren't willing tosacrifice that amount of time,
you know.
So even just time sacrificeshim up.
And then you have all of theCSMs, one of his leading CSMs or

(07:38):
CSM directors, temple.
Temple's a very close friend ofmine and Temple is one of the
most skilled people in sales andsales team development that I
know.
You can't replicate theexperience that Temple has when
he works one-on-one with one ofhis clients, and so all these
moats make him very unique andso his offering stands out from
everyone else right, and so itdoes take a lot of time to build
.
But I think that where the leanstartup gets it right is you're

(08:00):
supposed to validate that theproblem you're trying to solve
is a problem that people have.
If it's, you know, a problemthat people are going to buy
into, and then, once you findout it is, then you build a
product.
I think what most info productsdo is they know that the
problem is something that peoplewill buy into because it's
already validated, becausethey're trying to sell the same
thing that a thousand otherpeople are trying to sell and
they skip the whole.

(08:21):
Let me build a product and theyjust go into the.
Let me validate what's alreadyvalidated, but let me, let me
continuously just kind of sellinstead of actually taking the
time to build on the backend.
You know, and that's because Ithink a lot of people who start
infos, they're doing it from aplace of necessity.
So I always talk about, youknow, I always bring this back
to Maslow's hierarchy of needsand at the end of the day, you
can't really build something ifyou're worried about paying rent

(08:42):
that month, you know.
And so if I really had to takeanother guess as to why a lot of
infos fail, it's that plenty ofpeople and we can even start to
, you know, specify down as towhich industry we're talking
about.
But let's use an example of likeagency owner goes to info which
is really common and teachespeople how to do agency right

(09:02):
and so, realistically, mostpeople.
This is why I respect Iman, andthere's a whole theory right
now that Iman didn't make moneywith agency, which is lunacy,
trust me.
Out of all people I would know,iman crushed it with his agency
.
I can vouch for it.
I want to say that a lot ofpeople will start an agency,
have one decent month where theylike, just you know, front end
cash, all of their, all of their.

(09:23):
You know they'll sell six monthpayment plans or whatever be it
, uh, and collect it all in, or,you know, and so they'll have
one $80,000 a month andeverything goes to poo.
I'm sorry, I'm trying not tocurse and it falls apart.
So they start an info product,but they don't actually have
money.
But their info product is basedon them having money and how
they created this amazing agency.
And so because of that, they,you know, realistically want to

(09:45):
live up to our brand and rightnow everyone's either doing the
Lambo route or doing the oldmoney route.
But everyone's doing this stuffthat costs a lot of money,
right?
And so they're buying theirRolexes, they're buying whatever
kind of fancy clothing theyhave to buy, they're they're
going and getting these Airbnbsto record their VSLs and and
everything like that.
So everyone's spending a ton ofmoney.
But you're laughing becauseit's true, you know it's true

(10:05):
and so, realistically, they'rebroke.
So they need to sell people,otherwise they won't be able to
make money.
They're probably spending theirlast bits of money on ads or
short form agencies that aren'tproducing any kind of results
for them.
So they need to sell people andif they're in this cycle of
needing to sell people, theynever actually have time to
build a product.
Does it make sense Versus like,yeah, a difference.

(10:27):
Just to note this and I'm nottrying to put myself on a
pedestal here.
Maybe unconsciously I am, but adifference is like last week I
spent the entire week working onone like 25 page document and
making a 50 minute video for it.
That's going to be in our likelow ticket, even our, our high
ticket stuff, but our low ticketstuff on just um mindset

(10:48):
principles that I, I sawpresidents have, billionaires
having, etc.
Uh, but I could spend, you know, a full week working on one
thing that won't see you know 95of people who ever cross our,
our brand.
Uh, because I, I, because I'mnot focused on the sales front,
because I never did what I justkind of went through of, like,
you know, trying to play thegame, because I'm not focused on
the sales front, because Inever did what I just kind of
went through of, like you know,trying to play the game of

(11:08):
trying, you know, getting myselfin that catch-22, if you will,
it's proverbial, you know, atthe end of the day, Dude, some
of Iman's feedback to me wasalways use your agency and
always have the agency to showthat you can do it at a very
high level.

Darren Lee (11:26):
Because if I can do it at a very high level, at a
complex level, because we'velike 30, 40 clients, the
complexity is so high that Ihave to always be ahead.
I have to always be like, okay,what's happening on YouTube,
what's happening on LinkedIn,what's happening coming off of
LinkedIn, what's happening onemail?
Because if I'm doing it daily,even if it's my team, I'm just
showing a high level ofcompetency.

(11:48):
That's relevant.
So therefore, it's like hey,paul, this is how maybe you
should run your YouTube rightnow, because we are doing this
for 30 plus people.
And he was like.
His feedback was like even ifyou don't grow it any further,
if you keep it at the way, it isjust it the way it is, so it
doesn't like implode.
And basically, you know, keepon growing, it's going to
implode.
If you just do that, that willput you so far ahead of

(12:09):
everybody else because you'rejust doing what you said and
this seems so obvious, right?
It's like the personal trainerwho still goes to the gym
instead of, you know, gettingfat and trying to coach people,
but you have to do it foryourself before you consider
doing it for anybody else.
So I I always put it.

Paul Daley (12:23):
Yeah, I think that there's a lot that I could say
on there.
Number one is that Iman, ofcourse, knows best when it comes
to how to time that and I thinka lot of people hearing that
might be like might say that whyhe shut his agency down and, at
the end of the day, what Iwould say, it's probably the
same as what he would say, whichis, eventually, if the info
ever grows so much so that theagency and you know, let's say,
opportunity is even opportunitycost just gets so dramatic that

(12:46):
sometimes it's worth justshutting it down.
You know, um, but I will saythat the second that you ever
stop like for you because yourinfo is based on agency, correct
business owners who are who aredoing what you're doing with
podcasts not necessarily.

Darren Lee (13:03):
No, no, uh, the info is basically for guys that want
to run content businesses.
So they're running YouTube intocoaching offers and everything.

Paul Daley (13:10):
But it's from podcasts.
Is it B2B or is it B2C?

Darren Lee (13:12):
B2C.
So podcasters who have theirown podcast, who have their own
business on the back end, how dowe use content on the front end
to drive traffic into theirback end?

Paul Daley (13:19):
It's something that you already do right For
essentially.

Darren Lee (13:21):
And so.

Paul Daley (13:22):
Exactly yeah, and so I would say that the day you
ever stop, the day you stopdoing what you're teaching
people, is just a really roughday.
I'll put it that way.
It doesn't matter so if you'regoing from agency and you're
having info for agencies but youdon't run an agency anymore, it
just becomes a lot harder foryou to be the agency guy at that
point.
Right, and so it it's.
You know, the day example givenif Dave Ramsey ever started

(13:43):
getting in debt and strugglingfinancially, it probably would
be very hard for him to sell afinancial coaching kind of offer
.
And so you just, whateveryou're doing or whatever you're
teaching people, I think Itotally agree with you, mana.
I think that you have to beactively doing whatever you're
coaching people, and I thinkthat's one of the reasons or you
have to have so much socialproof that you did it and you

(14:03):
still have leaders inside of itthat are doing it to where you
can get out.
So I think that's why he canstill sell, example given, an
agency program if he wants to,because he did it well and he
still has people in there thatare actively doing it that teach
on his behalf.

Darren Lee (14:15):
Does it make sense?
It's a big difference.

Paul Daley (14:18):
Downfield for me and for most.

Darren Lee (14:21):
And it's always about the focus right.
So have you read.
10x is easier than 2x.

Paul Daley (14:27):
No, but I would understand the principle of it's
easier to plan out and try todo something that's 10 times
bigger.
It's easier to try to 10x yourcompany than to 2x your company.

Darren Lee (14:51):
Yes, but it's mainly it's almost like a wool over
someone's eyes.
But if I want something like,you want to build your offer.
You want to grow that veryelegantly.
You want to work with Christianfounders.
That's something that you'regoing to plan.
You're going to really plan outand you're going to sit back in
your little armchair, plan itout, take your time, come back
to it and, as a result, you willbuild something way more
substantial.
So the whole logic is that itworks on their creativity and

(15:14):
enthusiasm versus anxiety andfear.
Same with the infinite gameversus the finite game.
If it's finite, like a footballgame, it will end.
People in the crowd haveanxiety because it will end,
whereas if it's infinite, you'relike, look, we didn't get this
VSL out today, but it doesn'tmatter, because I want to work
with christian founders forever,so I'm just gonna keep on doing
it, right, you?
You know that as a result.

(15:36):
So it's a fantastic book, dude.
It's basically like aself-development book, more so
than anything else and then itshows you where you should be
positioning yourself on thechessboard, and it's just a nice
way to play it, because whenyou've been in it obviously
you've been in this a lot longerthan I have, you know, of
course, but at the same time,you can still always think
through that lens providingyou're not a pedestal.

Paul Daley (15:55):
By the way, bro, you've been in the game for a
while now.
You're very experienced.
You're doing amazing things.
Don't you keep short sellingyourself, you know well, I think
it's I was mainly creatingcontent before I was you know.

Darren Lee (16:07):
I don't know how much you know my background, but
like I built companies when Iwas younger but they all just
went to zero.
But I guess in the contentspace and the content business
space it's been like five yearsand then two or three years of
like this thing working time mantrue, but again, in a grand
scheme of things, as we planthings out right, the it's
always just more experience astime goes on.

Paul Daley (16:27):
Yeah yeah, but it's also important to look back and
see the growth that you've hadand understands.
You know you're not a beginneranymore, by any means true I
want to ask you about trust.

Darren Lee (16:37):
Uh, you talk a lot about your content, about like
building that trust, likebarometer, and building that up
hugely, um, and it's somethingthat, again, the high ticket
closer bro who walks around balidoesn't have.
They don't have the trust oftheir audience.
How have you seen that build up?
Because your brand and yourcoaching offers, they're so
elegant, like it's, thepositioning is so right always.

(16:57):
How do you think about thatproblem and how do you build
trust with users to be able toscale a coaching program?

Paul Daley (17:07):
I think there's a few things that stand out.
Number one is I don't mean todegrade where you are at all,
but one of the things that Ithink makes someone more or less
trustworthy is when they'redoing what the masses are doing,
or if they're doing what themasses are not doing Right.
So I am in middle of nowhere,uh, maryland USA, uh and what?

(17:29):
It's actually the richest zipcode in the country, but it's in
the middle of cornfields.
No one knows where I am, andyou know there's a private jet
airport like five minutes away,cause people are like there's
the billionaire per capita of athousand people here is crazy.
So there's like a private jet,there's no Uber where we are,
but there's a private jetairport.
I'll put it that way.
It's like the mostjuxtaposition kind of area.
I want to say that I'm not atall where internet money would

(17:51):
be right In the slightest, and Ithink that is number one,
something that makes medifferent, that makes people
also trust me a little more,because I'm not in Miami, I'm
not in Dubai, I'm not in Baliand, to be honest with you,
there are certain areas thatuntrustworthy people are
correlated to, and so, likeexample given, I have dealt with
x person who is in dubai whothis guy was untrustworthy.

(18:14):
I've heard a lot of a few otherpeople who are in dubai who are
untrustworthy.
Dubai must be untrustworthy,this person's in dubai, so they
must be untrustworthy as well,or same with bali.
This person's bali, that personwho is in that person, who also
are kind of sketchier in bali.
So I'm assuming maybe Darren isblank right.
And so association throughgeography, essentially, and so

(18:34):
no one can say that where I amthey have that association with,
because they don't know, numberone, where I am in the States,
and if they did, they would haveanything but positive
association.
So there's like minute stufflike that.
But then the other side to ittoo is I think more than most
I've tried to share my failuresand like where I'm not
succeeding and where I'm notdoing well on YouTube.

(18:55):
One of my favorite videos thatI've personally made so far is
I'm failing as a man.
I actually just even had a partof it shown in the vlog that we
just let out last Friday, and Ithink that I talk well on how
I'm not happy with where I'm atand why I'm not happy and how I
feel like I'm failing my family.
I'm failing in business becauseI'm not working as well as I
could be.
I'm not delegating the thingsthat could be.
I'm being I'm lazy with theactual actions I'm taking.

(19:16):
This was like a nine month agovideo and I still think about it
, right, but I feel like mostpeople aren't going to talk
about their failures on social.
They're going to talk abouttheir wins and how good they are
and their stripe screens or howsmart they are, et cetera.
And so, especially in the B2Bworld, man, if you like, you're
in, so the content you probablywatch is B2B based, if I take a
guess, and so I'm at likeeveryone's doing there.

(19:39):
There's really two types ofcontent I think that people are
producing.
It's either the um, her Moseyslash, nick Cosman slash, uh,
cole, cole Gordon does this in adifferent approach, but you
could say, cole, like takingthings and showing people how
smart you are, and so somethingthat can, like you know, at the
end of the day, it's almost likepushing information down, but

(20:00):
you're stepping on an authoritycomplex to do it.
And I mean no offense to anyoneI said, but it's a style of
marketing that works really wellfor B2B, right, like the.
You know I am super smart.
Let me use big words so thatyou see how smart I am.
Let me use equations or such topress this down.
And I know a lot of people wouldsay that it's funny that I put
Hermosi in there, becauseHermosi simplifies a lot of

(20:21):
things.
But I think Hermosi doesdefinitely put it in, you know,
step himself onto authority, butyou also have your basic style
of content, which is, likeyou're, more Iman centered
content, which is, like you're,more Iman centered content,
which is humbling yourself, nothaving to be the smartest person
in the room, and clear andshowing points that seem, when
you talk about them, veryrudimentary and very easy to
understand, and then the masses,of course, can understand.

(20:41):
And that's actually what toptier copywriting is.

Darren Lee (20:43):
It's, it's you know, simplified Exactly, and I think
that's the other side tobuilding trust is oftentimes not
having to be the smartestperson in the room.

Paul Daley (20:47):
You and I think that's the other side to
building trust is oftentimes nothaving to be the smartest
person in the room.
You and I were talking aboutthis before we started recording
.
One of the things that a lot ofpeople don't know about me is
how tactic, tact, tactful or how, how well I am or how well
versed I am with tactics andbusiness.
I don't talk about tactics andbusiness often on my YouTube.
I normally talk aboutprinciples and strategy and I

(21:08):
need to do a better job of doing.
But it's also because I'm not.
I don't need to be the smartestperson on YouTube, like I
originally thought I would havehad to be.
Iman actually taught me thatpoint.
He taught me that point reallywell as we argued about it for
years, and I'm blessed and I'mhappy that he taught me at that
point.

Darren Lee (21:22):
But I think most people in a bit more detail.

Paul Daley (21:24):
I will in one second , but I think most people they
need to be.
I think this is the explanationof it.
They need to be the smartestperson when they create content.
They need to have peoplelooking at them and saying like,
wow, that guy.
Look at Darren, he is so smart,he knows his stuff.
He used this big word.
He talked about the system thatI don't have.
His stuff is all together.
I think what we're what I'mgoing for.
Um, it's different than howIman words it, but I don't need

(21:45):
people to think wow, think wow,paul is super smart.
My brain is actually the exactopposite.
I want people to see wow, paulis super flawed.
The fact that God is using himis insane on its own.
Glory.
Be in the name of God.
And like look how wise God isin how how much he's doing
through Paul, who is a veryflawed figure, you know, um, and
so I want to show the flaws andbe transparent about the flaws

(22:07):
so that I can glorify, or Godreceives the glory that he
deserves because he's workingthrough me, and I don't deserve
to be worked through.
And I think because of that,because I'm showing both ends,
that's one of the reasons thatit's trustworthy because it's
God's wisdom, hopefully pouringthrough me.
I think that's why it'seloquent Another way to word
this and I'm not here yet, butI've heard that, if you know

(22:29):
you're doing content, well, whenyou feel like you're naked,
walking down the sidewalk justexposing everything, like you're
showing everything, where mostpeople the skeletons they have
in their closets are, you know,like their closets are just
waiting to like burst openbecause they're trying to show
only the specific things thatare making them look good, but
all the stuff that makes themreal human beings they're hiding

(22:50):
and I feel like that'ssomething that humans can sense
and that's why people don'toften trust a lot of the people
out there.
Or it's also because people arespeaking about something that
they don't understand.
That's probably 90% of it islike let me tell you about
something I've never personallydone, but I read it in a book or
I saw someone else talk aboutit.
So I'm going to try to remakethe same video, but I can't
speak about it the same waybecause I don't have the same
experience, which is alsountrustworthy in its own so one

(23:14):
thing I would add as well is oneobservation of you is and I
learned this from my ownpersonal speaking coach which is
you have a very high competency.

Darren Lee (23:21):
So we're quite similar in terms of like we over
index on high competency.
But usually the trade-off of acompetency if you imagine a
graph is warmed on the otheraxis, warmed is low.
So you might look at like aCole Gordon and he's high on the
competency index, but he couldbe quite cold to consume his
content, apart from them beingcold, whereas for you I feel

(23:43):
like you have a high competencyand high warmed factor which is
very, very, very difficult tobuild, because sometimes if
you're like, if you're anoverachiever or a super
ambitious person, you don't wantto come across as like weak,
okay.
So therefore you don't likesmile this is literally what my
coach teaches me is like smiledude, because then people will
warm to you.
And it's a small thing, right?

(24:04):
You don't need to learn that.
You just are that and as aresult, it's not that you become
more trustworthy, it's just thefact that you become more you,
so more authentic.
So a lot of times for mypresentations, when I'm in
person I'm a little bit tight,but then I relax as time goes on
and same with a few events.
I run a lot of events andmasterminds and stuff like this.

(24:25):
It's just a very interestingobservation because it's how we
want to perceive ourselves andthat could be an element of
insecurity, you know.
But the faster that yourecognize that about yourself,
the more that you becomeyourself and therefore you
attract the people that you wantto attract.
Right, because one of my bestmates and works at our company
too, work very closely Tom saidto me that you know, everyone

(24:47):
knows, your business is areflection of you, but also your
customers are a reflection ofyou as well.
Before we go any further, I haveone question for you.
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(25:08):
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Paul Daley (25:28):
I love the customer side, bro.
That makes me want to brag morethan anything I've bragged
about, because the guys that areinside of my program, they're
awesome.
Yeah, they're better than me,so that's a very good line.
I think the one thing I want tosay is just praise God for what
you said about, in this case,me being well-rounded, because
it's not to my own accord, man,my model for that.

(25:48):
I also think a lot of this isalso who you model after, right,
and so if you think about mostpeople in the space wanting to
model after either Iman, andrewTate or Alex Ramosi In our
industry, it's really going tobe one of three of those guys
that everyone's trying to modelafter.
And then you might have yourpeople trying to model after
Cole, gordon or others, etc.
But it's normally going to comeback to those three Gordon or

(26:11):
others, et cetera but it'snormally going to come back to
those three.
I think something that is one ofthe main reasons, if not the
only reason, I might be morewell-rounded is because my model
is Christ, and if you thinkabout Christ, there would be no
one warmer that and kinder thatyou could talk to than God
himself in flesh right.
He would have been the warmesthuman being you've ever met.

(26:32):
He would have also been thewisest human you've ever met.
He never tripped People wouldtry to trip him up on words.
He was wise.
He was incredibly wise,incredibly warm, incredibly
compassionate.
He showed the tension.
So I think, at the end of theday, what this actually comes
back to.
This is probably a completederail from everything that you
thought we were going to getinto, but this is something
that's been on my lately.
You asked me before this istheir question.
That would just spark you upand apparently this is it right,

(26:54):
something I've been reallythinking about a lot lately and
it's actually been a discussionat our men's breakfast in
churches like the tension you'resupposed to carry as a man and
I think most men don't carrytension, they are like a broken
wire to.
So, realistically, you'resupposed to be a compassionate,
warm, loving man who is alsosteadfast and stern in

(27:16):
righteousness, right, and sothey're supposed.
And realistically, just justlike god is just yet merciful,
which is attention, right,there's a tension in that.
We're supposed to haveattention.
It's almost like taking anelastic band putting in between
two, two you know poles andyou're supposed to live in that
tension, but most people justrip the band and it just goes to
one side.
So you have your, your um, youknow unrefined, immature

(27:40):
masculinity which is let me havemultiple spouses, let me let my
masculinity go, and just likeit's the exact opposite of the
feminist movement.
It's like, let me just let mymasculinity rage right and that,
not to say that certain peoplein the space, but people will
start to think of people thatthat you know that might come to
mind with that, but it's verywhat you would call like just

(28:01):
raw, immature masculinity.
On the other side you have the.
You know the, the emasculinemovement, which is like men are
supposed to be on far to.
You know other the, the, theemasculine movement, which is
like men are supposed to be onfar to.
You know other side of likewearing dresses, blah, blah,
blah.
You know nothing that lovingside times a thousand the wrong
way, um, but something that'sthat's been in my brain is that
I'm supposed to live like Christ, like Christ did.

(28:23):
Uh, obviously I'm going to beflawed in doing that, but I'm
supposed to be Christ Like I'msupposed to be Christian.
The apostle Paul talks aboutthis quite often and how to live
like that, and I think Paul dida very good job of living this
tension as well, and so I'mtrying to live in that tension
and I'm trying to think aboutthat and that's my model.
And so if that's my model andthat's what I'm going for and

(28:44):
that's where I want to be onedegree better, like that every
single day, versus a lot ofpeople's models are flawed
humans.
That's another reason that Ithink my brand, if you will, has
become more trustworthy.
It's because my North Star isthe truth, the life and the way
where most is someone who justhas social media following.

(29:05):
Does it make sense?

Darren Lee (29:07):
It makes sense, go a little bit deeper as to how
someone can go off rails.
How do you see that?
So they're building this empire, they're building this business
, they're probably helpingpeople, but they're not mission
aligned.
The way that you describe it asis there, is there, like a way

(29:28):
that you see that going off?
Do they follow more ego?
Do they follow more greed?
Like, how do you see that?
Like, what's the balancebetween, like a high profit
revenue, driving or generatingbusiness and greed?

Paul Daley (29:43):
uh, yeah, at the end of the day, it's your heart,
right, and so, uh, this is anunsexy answer, bro.
You know what?
Know what?

Darren Lee (29:50):
I think that's a good answer, dude, that's a
really good answer Can youexplain that more it's like I
didn't, I never thought about it.

Paul Daley (29:56):
It's just hard posture At the end of the day,
if you, you know, money is atool, but if it's okay.
So do you know what the firstcommandment is?
I'm not trying to step youright now.
A lot of people will think thatno other gods before god means

(30:18):
like the god of sun, the god ofthis, blah, blah, blah, which is
also true, of course.
But what it really means isthat you shall have no other
gods in your life, meaning idolsbefore me.
And so, at the end of the day,I'm going to use myself as a
flawed example of this, becauseit's probably it's just the
easiest for me to use.
I want and you and you saw inkind of how we talked before
this, I hope that I want mypriority, my priority, is not

(30:39):
the money that the businesscreates, it's growing the
kingdom of God through thecontent that we create, through
the business that we do.
It's using business as a way,because that's the vehicle that
I think God has has, you know,selected me for.
It's using business to grow thekingdom of God.
So it doesn't matter if thebusiness does five, 10, 20, $30
million, because realistically,that's a tool for whatever God
wants me to do with it versus.

(31:01):
And so and I'm, you know Idon't have financial goals
because of that it's whateverGod wants to do.
I, one of my daily prayers, isGod, you be the CEO of the
business, align my heart withyours, make sure you know, make
me a heart, uh, that is posturedto grow the way you want me to
grow.
Discipline me so that I canhave the tribulation in life.

(31:22):
Uh, and take on thattribulation with a smile, so
that I can be a man that's, youknow, worthy of holding whatever
burdens you want to put on me.
Uh, and let me take.
Let me take your yoke right,but it's always around God,
you're the CEO of my business.
And then it always almost endswith you're the CEO, be a good
CEO and flood our business afteryou've made the business worth
flooding.

(31:42):
And so, realistically, if thebusiness does really well, then
it's not to my own accord.
And I'm not chasing the 500 ora mil or two million month mark,
like that most people are.
I'm just chasing growing thekingdom of god and I'm saying
god, you're the ceo you get itto.
Like.
The way I said it to john theother day on our internal
podcast is or maybe this is inthe car.
If I make god the ceo of mybusiness and I I don't want to

(32:04):
make him the ceo of my businessand I try actively every day to
make him the ceo of my business.
You know, imagine you're theceo of your business, do you
C-O-O-S?
Yeah, imagine for a second.
The COO started making goalsfor the business that were not
your goals.
What?

Darren Lee (32:18):
would you?

Paul Daley (32:18):
feel?
How would you feel about thatTension?
Yeah, I don't want to set goalsfor the business if God is the
CEO, because I'm then the COO ofthe business, right?
Why am I setting goals for thebusiness if I'm not the one
running the business?
And so I feel like a lot ofpeople will set goals for the
business, but what they don'tunderstand, or what they don't
really realize deep down, is thegoals that they're setting are
god said before god.

(32:39):
Like they're, they're makingthese goals of like 10k per
month, 50k per month, 100, 500,250, whatever even number that
you arbitrarily want to find.
It's always the next biggesteven number.
It's, but it's your, it's youridol and everything's focused on
that.
And, like you're, you'reabsolutely obsessed with that.
And because of that, that's thehard posture difference right
Of, realistically, it's thebyproduct versus the primary

(33:03):
product.
Byproduct for me, hopefully, iscash comes in, because I'm
actively trying to work with Godand growing his kingdom.
As a soldier in his army, aprimary product would be I need
to make 500K a month or amillion a month or whatever it
be, because that's all like.
That's how I'm going to find myidentity, this is what I'm
working for, this is my life'spurpose, and there's there's
very different um heart posturein both of those you know.

(33:24):
And so to go back, how you canfail or how you can fall is, at
the end of the day again.
So Proverbs 1, 7, paraphrasing,is that the foundation of
knowledge is fear of the Lord.
At the end of the day, if youdon't have the right perspective
on life or the right angle oflooking at life, if you don't
have the right glasses on as tohow you're supposed to look at
life, which is through the lensof knowing that there is a God
and you have to have reverencetoward God, this world looks

(33:46):
completely different.
The things you're gonna wannado in this life are completely
different.
You're not gonna be for theright reasons, and so, of course
, you're going to have thesegods before the true God that
you're working toward, andthey're going to consume you.
And you know realistically, ifyou think about the fact that
this is a fallen world throughsin, then what you're going to
recognize about that is that the, the nature of this world is so

(34:10):
sexy, it's so beautifully notbeautiful, it's just sexy, dirty
, disgustingly sexy to to wantto get these amazing goals in
business and to do these amazingthings, and and and, then with
you know 500 K, then you can buythis and have this, or have
that girl or whatever be it.
It's all very like wrongthinking.
Right At the end of the day,it's not going to lead you to

(34:32):
peace, like God will.
It's going to lead you to moreand more and more of needing,
more and more and more, andthat's, you know, to get back to
the going off rails.
That's, that's my not at all.

Darren Lee (34:44):
Not at all, dude, it's just.
It's just maturity, thoughright at the end of the day,
like there's different stages ofmaturity here, which is like if
you're getting into the spaceand in the beginning again it's
more stress-based.
I need to make my rent andwhere you've got the, and you
don't need to wait for this forsure.
But it's almost as someonebecomes more mature and more
articulate.
What they want, they realizethat the stripe account is not

(35:06):
what's going to give them thegoal right.
You may want to grow yourbusiness and you may want to
help more people, but if youkeep that front and center,
that's how you burn out and thengive up because all those sub
effects just happen as a resultof not being really dialed in as
to why you're doing it right,like what's the overarching
theme as to why you're not doingit?

(35:27):
And therefore you've used theexcuse of I want to swap niches,
I want to swap the coaching, Iwant to, I want to take a break,
I want my burned out.
But if you did have anoverarching goal as to why
you're doing it, you can gothrough rough times and know
that rough roads end smooth.
It's much more higher focused.

Paul Daley (35:44):
Rough roads end smooth.
I'm going to steal that.

Darren Lee (35:47):
Dude, the actual full phrase is rough roads end
smooth, smooth roads end rough.
And it's a beautiful phrasebecause I've unfortunately seen
it happen, just like you knowsuper close to me, which is
people who have taken the thesmooth road in life, they end up
having like a rough end of lifeand, conversely, like I've had

(36:07):
a pretty rough 20s.
You know, like I've did a bunchof things, a bunch of things
failed.
I used to work for like bigtech companies, consulting firms
.
I got out of all of it and I, Iwould say I've had a very like
heavy 20s in terms of likeinvestment of my time into work
which has paid me dividends asthe hopefully the rest of my
life, not necessarily cash inthe bank, but more like life

(36:30):
equity and knowledge acquiredand skill acquired and skill
acquisition.
So I just see it, you know.
I just see it, you know.
I just see it in front of mecontinuously.

Paul Daley (36:39):
I love it bro.

Darren Lee (36:41):
Tell me a little about how someone can realign
those priorities.
So let's say, someone may nothave their fade or to do a fade
and they're like super stressedor trying to scale this business
and it's everything's fallingapart.
How did you realign thosepriorities?

Paul Daley (36:58):
I'm gonna hit two things here, right?
Uh, maybe three things.
So number one is that the onlyway to align your priorities is
understanding that there is it'snot a subjective thing, it's an
objective thing, and so,realistically, you're asking
from a subject, subjectiveperspective, of like, how do I
align my priorities for my life?
But if you understand that yourlife is not yours, that someone
died for you and his name wasChrist, that your life is his

(37:20):
and that's objective truth,because he was the truth of
white life in the way he spokethis into existence, this being
the world that we're in, you andI, breath of life, et cetera,
if you realize that he'sobjective which I'm going to get
into in a second then it's nothow do I realign my priorities.
For me, it's how do I give Godmy priorities?
There's a song that I love thatI'm going to CTA people to
listen to.
It's called Control.

(37:43):
I listened to the acousticversion.
I can't remember by who it's by, but it's like, essentially,
you're going to paraphrase aline of it which is that God
wants me.
Because of that, I'm okay,giving him my life, I'm giving
him everything you know, givingall of my priorities to him so
that he can recategorize it onhis end, because, at the end of
the day, I want God toprioritize my life, not me.
That's way better at it, whichis going to get me in the second

(38:03):
thing in a second.
I want to go over how you dothat, though, because a lot of
people listen to this Number one.
If you're, you know I'm talkingabout God, so a lot of people
will.
Well, your, your click-throughrate might be solid, but your
watch time might plummet as soonas we start talking about that.
You'll see the graph, um, but,realistically, if you have any
inkling on understandinganything about that objectivity

(38:24):
and why I can speak to that withconfidence, there's, it's.
I'm actually going to make ayoutube video on this, and I
would love people feel free tosteal or copy this idea for
youtube, because I think if thisyoutube video did well, I don't
care if it comes from me, aslong as it does well.
But, in short, the process ofmarketing is the same process of
evangelizing, or same processas finding God, which is that
the first thing in marketing isshowing people that they have a

(38:46):
problem, creating problemawareness right In this area, we
have to show people that theyhave a problem, which is that if
you die, you're not, you're notgoing to a very good place.
If you die without knowing whoJesus Christ is and surrendering
your life to him, right, thereis a problem.
That's why Christians and youknow the apostle Paul talks
about in his letters uh, there'sreal speed that we're supposed
to move with as Christians toget this problem to be you know,

(39:09):
or to show, or to get awarenessof this problem out into the
world, so that people can canstart going down this, this path
of understanding that there isa better way of living and there
is someone that you're supposedto spend your life too.
So, number one problemawareness.
There is someone who died foryou.
Are you aware of the fact thatyou're going to go to hell
unless you convert your life tohim?
The first, the first likequestion that people have to ask

(39:30):
themselves in this is is therereally a God?
Do I believe that there is aGod in existence?
Right, meaning, realistically,the first thing you have to look
at is like, logically, if I'mgoing to play out both ends, do
I believe in nihilism or do Ibelieve in some kind of
Abrahamic religion?
Because I either have tobelieve that God created the
world, or I have to believe thatyou know, the world came from
chance, happens chance, and Ithink, realistically anyone who

(39:59):
prescribes to the world camefrom habsen's chance, big bang,
and then you know macroevolution, etc.
I would say that that takes waymore belief than believing in
god at the end of the day.
Right, so you have first.
I mean, bro, we can get into it.
Number one like we have less youknow evidence for evolution now
than we did when darwinactually made his theory for
evolution.
Uh, his theory for evolution isless taken by scientists than
it is by the mass public.
His theory for evolution isliterally when he created it.
It is by the mass public.
His theory for evolution isliterally when he created it.
He said there's not enoughevidence to support it now, but

(40:20):
as science improves over thenext hundred years, the
artifacts that we need in orderto prove this claim will come.
And now we've actually haveless artifacts than when he
originally made the claim ofevolution or theory of evolution
, because a lot of the artifactshave been disproven to not
actually be linked together sorealistically.
And then you know you can get,there's so much you can get into
, but at the end of the day, thescience of how the world is

(40:41):
created is what, like 50, 60years old, you know.
And so it takes a lot of beliefto believe in the theory that
constantly is changing, versusthe theory that is true, which
has, you know, been overthousands of years now how the
world has operated with theunderstanding that God created
it.
And so I would say it takes alot more belief to believe that
the world was chance right andthat, example given, our beings

(41:05):
are just matter mushed togetherand then different chemicals
going off.
I don't believe, example givenDarren, that you are just the
chemical solution of differentthings popping in your brain
that makes you you.
I believe that you are an imagebearer of God, that you are a
spirit and that you have flesh,but you are going to live for

(41:26):
eternity, and how you live foreternity is based on the
decisions you make of whether ornot you want to serve your life
Overall, it's not like a lot ofpeople, too, we can get into
this.
A lot of people think hell ispunishment.
It's not there to.
Overall, it's not like a lot ofpeople, too, we can get into
this hell.
A lot of people think hell ispunishment.
It's not.
Uh, there's a line that I love,which is that the doors of hell
are locked from the inside.
People want to go to hellbecause they want separation
from god, first commandment.
Again to come back to this, youshall have no other gods before
me.
A lot of people want to makethemselves their own god, the

(41:47):
god of their own life.
Meaning, realistically I don'twant to surrender my life to god
, I want, I want to be the ownGod of my life, and so they
separate themselves from God.
They'd rather go.
You know, if heaven is eternityworshiping God, then they don't
want to go there and so they'llgo to hell, gladly, you know
not gladly, it's probably thewrong word to use but the door,
the the, you know, the doorsfrom hell are locked from the

(42:08):
inside is a great line ofshowing that you are the reason
that you're there and you'drather be there than being in a
heaven where you're worshipingthe one and true God.
So, going back, the awarenessright of a problem, secondary is
methodology and so,realistically, methodology of
solution In this case.
You know, you can.
You know if we were talkingabout biz ops.
You can start an e-com store,you can go into drop shipping,
you can do FBA, you can doagency, you can be a closer, et

(42:30):
cetera.
All the methods of making$10,000 a month once you realize
that the problem is you're notmaking enough money.
Same thing with evangelism orunderstanding that there is a
God.
First question is there a God?
I have a problem, right, youknow.
I don't know if this guy isreal, et cetera.
I'm going to go to hell if thisis real.
There's like a logical questionI have to ask myself that most
people don't Secondary is okay,I do at it.

(42:50):
Now that I've played out thegenuine nihilistic thought and
the you know the, the godlythought, I think this one is
more plausible.
Second thing that you have tothen ask yourself is which
method of revelation of God do Ibelieve in?
Do I believe in?
And there's really three rightJudaism, islam and Christianity.
And if you look at Islam, Ithink anyone who subscribes to

(43:11):
Islam would only do so becausethey were trained in, you know,
through childhood, to believe init.
I don't think any mature adultwould look at Islam and say that
it is, for any reason, alogical decision to make to
subscribe to that belief.
I think that Islam is a cancerto the world and I would say
that to any Muslim brother.
I love you much and I want youto find who Christ is.
I think Christ has a warm spotfor Muslims.

Darren Lee (43:33):
Judaism.
What's the logic with that?
Just out of curiosity.

Paul Daley (43:36):
I'm going to paraphrase this as simply as I
can into two points, right?
So let me nix out Judaism,which, at the end, of the day is
Judaism.
If you look at Judaism, it takesa lot of ignorance to look at
Judaism and then say that Jesuswas not the Messiah.
And so most people, if theylook at Judaism, will look at
Judaism, then see the Bible andsay this is the obvious

(43:56):
continuation of Judaism.
So why would I become a Jew ifI can become a Christian, like
Jesus wanted me to beessentially right.
So then you can get intoChristianity and Islam and a lot
of people don't recognize howIslam was founded right, and so
there's a lot I can get into.
This is one of my favoriteconversations to have.
But in short, to paraphrasethis, islam started 500 years

(44:19):
after Christ.
No-transcript and I don't haveit written down, but I memorized
the entire actual revelation ofGod.
And then, instead of spreadingwith love like Christianity, did

(44:43):
they spread it with a sword andif you didn't subscribe to the
belief of Islam you would bekilled.
And so Christians were killed,jewish people were killed, etc.
That's why Islam spread soquickly.
That's also why it dies soquickly, because it is not a
foreign belief.
You can also get into Ishmaeland everything like that in the
Old Testament with Abraham andhow he's not blessed.
There's a lot to this.
But if you actually look atIslam with a mature lens, you

(45:04):
cannot say that it's a logical.
You know, I could even get intothe fact that, like God is just
, god is merciful.
All three Abrahamic religionsbelieve that Only one of them
can that actually be true, twoof them, if you count Judaism.
But Judaism realistically goesinto Christianity, and that's
because, at the end of the day,you can't have a just God and a
merciful God unless Christ dieson the cross.

(45:26):
Because, realistically, let'ssay that I wronged you, darren,
right, if I wronged you, I alsoprobably sinned.
If I wronged someone, that issinned, well, not the only.
If I wrong someone, that is sin, which means I sinned against
god and I broke his law, but Ialso wronged you.
So, god, if god is merciful,then he's going to let me off
the hook, but then no, just hasbeen given for you being wronged
, you know.

(45:46):
And so if god is just, thenhe's not going to be merciful to
me because he's going to sendme away, which is not merciful.
And so the only way that youcan find both, that tension that
we kind of talked about earlier, is with Christ on the cross,
because just was given, but itwas given to Christ, who
volunteered to take the wrath onhimself instead of me, and then
, because of that, the mercy ofGod can be bestowed on me,

(46:08):
because Jesus says Father Paul'swith me, right, and so anyway,
that's the methodology.
You have to look at those threerelations and then after that
is solution, meaningchristianity, church, word of
god, bible, prayer, etc.
And so how you realign yourpriorities is going through the,
the sales process.
If you will that you takeclients through awareness

(46:29):
methodology and solution.
Um, there's a secondary pointin there that I'm forgetting, so
excuse me for not beingemotionally or verbally
confident.
I did.

Darren Lee (46:38):
Dude, I love listening to you because you're
so passionate about it, likeyou've done so much research
into this.
That's why I'm like asking,like, why do you believe that?
Why do you think this?
Because you haven't just, youknow, learned it on Twitter 20
minutes ago.
You've obviously read the Bible, like you know.
It's very clear to me.
That's why I'm curious.
I'm like, oh, it's like, why isit like this, you know?
Because I think, as you said,it's problem awareness.

(46:59):
Most people, whether they're aprospect, a lead or someone
reading the Bible or not,problem aware.
They don't realize the issuethat they have in front of them.
So I think that's a great wayfor you to showcase that to
people is like okay, here's whatI've seen, because I remember.

Paul Daley (47:14):
It's a YouTube video , bro, and if you want to make
the YouTube video, anyonelistening to this, it would make
for a great YouTube video.
I just haven't got around to ityet.

Darren Lee (47:22):
It's a big thing, though, right, it's a big thing
because what you need to realizeis that the business will not
solve your real problems, likethe money.
As Pomboise said, money onlysolves money problems.
And then there's all the otherproblems that's going to show up
in your life.
How have you seen what you'vedone in the past couple years
permeate into other aspects ofyour life, so into your families

(47:42):
, your relationships, yourfitness, because you've, after
leaving educate, you know, a lotchanged for you as well during
that period of time define yourquestion a little more.

Paul Daley (47:52):
What do you?
So you said how.
How has x changed at otherareas in my life?
What is the x?

Darren Lee (47:57):
yes.
So when you realigned your fate, when you've left educate, how
did that impact the rest of yourother aspects of your life?
Because I remember when youwere in educate, you were
working, you know, 20 hours aday, hustling, grinding 24 7.
The majority of my guests runcontent businesses.
They've used content as themain element of their business

(48:17):
to drive more revenue and buildtheir influence online.
We've been doing this through apodcast for many years.
We have many guests, clients andeven customers use a podcast as
their main source of drivingmore revenue for their business
and building their influenceonline, and we're offering a
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(48:39):
for your business and driveyour influence online.
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but each one of them are actiontakers and they want to learn
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So if you want to learn moreand you're really interested in
building a podcast, check outthe link down below and book in
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(49:00):
guide you into how you can buildand generate more revenue from
your podcast this year.

Paul Daley (49:05):
Yeah, so I always like to clarify this.
I didn't leave.
Educate E-Mod did ask me toleave, which was the best thing
to.
Second best thing to everhappen to me.
Third best thing one of themany best thing to ever happen
to me.
Third best thing one of themany best things to ever happen
to me.
Now that I say that, I justlike I can think of a tier of
best things to happen that aredefinitely more important.

Darren Lee (49:24):
Um, why was that, or was there clarity on that?

Paul Daley (49:25):
yeah, I think there's a few reasons.
Number one is I, I think,toward okay, so I I've never
said this publicly, but I thinkthis is an important reason
which is that when I first metimam, I was.
I think this is actuallyimportant reason, which is that
when I first met Iman, I was Ithink this is actually very,
very important to note.
Uh, talking about prioritiesand setting priorities straight
Right, I first met Iman and Iwas Christian.
I was what's called a bornagain Christian, right, um, but
something had just happened withme, um, and a friend inside of

(49:49):
the church, so I had stoppedgoing to church for a little bit
.
This is really common.
A lot of people will at somepoint encounter in their face
some kind of uh tribulationinside of church.
They stopped going to church.
Uh, I started, you know, Istopped reading the Bible as
often, uh, just a season of life, and during that is when I also
started working with Iman.
And so I started, I think, withright intentions and right

(50:10):
priorities and and just overall,kind of uh, a slightly I lesser
version of hopefully, who yousee now, which is someone who's
got their priorities straightand, hopefully, is warm and has
others best interests at heart.
But when I started working withIman the circle of wealth,
essentially that I was justshown and like the world that I

(50:31):
kind of came into, unlike Imanthat had grown into that, I kind
of just got thrown into that.
And it was.
It's not that they were doinganything wrong by any means, but
it's that when you getsubjected to that amount of new,
new temptation, that quickly,you know, in in first
Corinthians it says that Godwill never, god will, will you

(50:52):
know, submit you to temptation,but he'll never submit you to
temptation.
You never, uh, god will, willyou know, submit you to
temptation, but he'll neversubmit you to temptation.
You can't handle it, I think,realistically, you know.
But temptation is supposed to,you know, give you the ability
to, in free will, say I don'tchoose that, I choose God, uh,
and then through that, glorifyGod and build a better faith in
God and build, build a betterrelationship, right, it's kind
of like example given if you are, we were the only guy in the

(51:14):
world and you had a girlfriend,but you were the only guy in the
world, it's not really thatspecial, but the fact that you
are, you're married, correct,yeah, correct, yeah, the fact
that you're married, but yourwife had other options and still
likely could talk to other guysif she wanted to, but she
chooses you.
That's the same relationshipGod wants to have, right?
He's married to the church andhe wants people to to to choose

(51:37):
him in their own free will.
So, all to say realistically, Iwas going through all you know a
bad time with church.
I wasn't in the word, I wasn'trooted the same way that I
should have been.
And then I'm subjected to allthis stuff over the course of
about two years and I would say,realistically, that the world
won.
So if you think about my heart,and then you have God pulling
in one way and then you have theworld pulling the other.
The world is trying to destroymy soul.
God is trying to save andredeem it.
I think, realistically, Ididn't.

(51:59):
I wasn't rooted in God like Ishould have been, and so, just
through the subject uh,subjection of that life, I think
, realistically, my prioritiesstarted to get misaligned.
I don't think I was a goodleader toward my end of the
tenure there.
I don't think I was um,diligent like I should have been
, disciplined, like I shouldhave been.
I don't think I was.
I was a man worth number one, uh, leading number two, uh, a man

(52:19):
that was able to evangelize and,I think, realistically,
throughout the time, iman and Ihad a great Iman and I still
talk.
We talked for an hour like twoweeks ago.
He actually side note, justsend me, I can shoot you the
email, send me.
Uh, I I was, we were talkingabout something and I was like
he said do you need anything?
I was like I can you know, usea new pair of glasses for the
sun?
Do you know anyone who has agood eyewear brand?
And his response to that wasgot you.

(52:40):
And he just yeah, I thinkthere's.
We were supposed to get at thepost office today 23 pairs of
gadgets or something just sentto me.
So it's not like Iman and I arein that by any means, like
through the subjection to thelife that he lives without being
rooted the right way and Ithink Iman is well-rooted, but
without being rooted the rightway at the time and going into

(53:01):
that so quickly, I think I lostto the world and I think I chose
the wrong side of how to live.
Through that and I think Ibecame someone that wasn't worth
running a company as the CEO.
I think he knew that, alongwith also wanting to change how
he was modeling the companiesand everything like that, and so
I think, through a kind of amix of events, he asked me to
leave.
So I don't I like to clarifythat, because it wasn't that I
left on my own accord.

(53:21):
I think God did want me toleave on my own accord for many
months because he wanted to drawme back to him and realign my
priorities, but I ignored thatcalling.
So another video that I'mactually thinking about making
on YouTube is that, at the endof the day, when God calls for
something, when God wantssomething in your life, he will
give you time for you to to playout his want, but if you don't

(53:42):
do it and he knows it's the bestfor you, he will impose his
wants, which are the best foryou, on on you.
So he, I know, wanted me toleave for months.
I could feel that toward mylast, like three, four or five
months, but I didn't do it, Iignored it.
And he imposed the, the want onuh, and got me out.
And it's the.
And I remember, bro, the secondthat I, I submitted the

(54:04):
resignation letter, I wentacross the street to this place
that I have, uh, have lunch outevery day, and I just felt so
much peace because I don't knowhow to word it god just put
peace in my heart and it was.
It was amazing, uh, which is, Iknow, a tangent to the question
that you wanted to get into,which is how dude?

Darren Lee (54:20):
not, not at all.
I think.
I think that's really beautiful,though I would say I would say
that's really beautiful becauseof the fact that just you know
your relationship.
There is this fact that Ibelieve that if you truly trust
someone, that you should likealmost work with them, right.
If you truly believe as a guy,like indeed, like we're not just
going to have like a random,like fucking coffee date, right,

(54:41):
we're just going to like, we'regoing to like work on things,
strategize, work on this, workon this, just like even help
each other, right, I think it'sreally good for someone to
recognize that in you being like, look, you're best suited
somewhere else, best alignedsomewhere else, best aligned

(55:02):
someone else like that's a realman-to-man conversation, versus
like hiding it and like beingmisaligned slightly and then
almost developing a grudge,right, it could work both ways
because, because you feeltension in your heart and you
feel tension how you want to bealigned, and I think that is
that's a really like honest wayto do things genuinely.
Um and so, with the guys that Iwork with, we're extremely
honest with each other andthat's why we get along really
well, right, we get along reallywell as well as working

(55:22):
together.
Uh, I think it's reallyimportant because, you know, I'm
20, I'm 29 on Saturday, manJesus.
Well, but one thing I'verealized thank you so much.
What I've realized is that a lotof the times, especially when
you're younger, you hide thetruth, like a lot of things.
A lot of the hard conversationsare hidden, and I know well

(55:43):
I've interviewed Sal Bloom quitea few times and I've learned a
lot from his writing.
And the biggest thing is uh,debt carries a load and it
increases.
So if you have hardconversations and you don't, you
don't have the conversations.
It carries a debt on therelationship.
It's compound interest.

Paul Daley (56:02):
Sometimes it has to get bad, yeah.

Darren Lee (56:04):
Sometimes debts get paid right, bro.

Paul Daley (56:06):
I love that and I give a lot of credit to you, mom
, for and I think I do the sametoo of not.
You know, it's essentially theway of looking at it.
This is my favorite way ofexplaining this is that if you
look at Jesus, jesus was notnice, jesus was kind, right, and
so a lot of people are nice,which is what makes them not,

(56:27):
you know, want to have theconfrontation of having
uncomfortable conversations,because they don't want to upset
people.
So nice is avoidingconfrontation, you know, getting
walked on.
Nice guys finish last, etcetera.
Being kind is being willing tohave those confrontational
conversations with a warm andkind heart and compassion toward
the situation.
And I think, realistically,when you model toward that I
think Iman models that well, Ihope, and I try to model that

(56:49):
well, but I think realistically,that's again in the tension of
being a man.
It's being steadfast andrighteousness, but also being
compassionate and warm, right,and so realistically, you know,
if you try to be nice, you'refar, way too far to the left.
You don't have the conversation.
A lot of people are willing tohave the conversation but
they're just kind of dicks whenthey do it and there's no
compassion and that's being toofar to the right.
The you know ability that youprobably have with your team is

(57:18):
to do it in the middle, whereit's warm and compassionate but
still steadfast, and making surethat if something is wrong, uh,
you're you're pointing that out.

Darren Lee (57:21):
Does that make sense ?
That's a fantastic point,because and this is a really
good conversation it's reallymodeled in terms, in terms of,
like, how to actually just be abetter person Like how do you
live at the highest levelwhereby you're helping the most
people and you're also living inalignment, what you want to do?
right, that's.
That's really the theme of thisconversation, because what I do
find is that to have thoseconversations with someone, they

(57:43):
also need to be going throughthat development, that sense of
micro person development orwhatnot.
Because if you're trying tohave this conversation with
someone which I've had in thepast, some guys you know in
their 50s and 60, someone whichI've had in the past, some guys
you know in their fifties andsixties, some guys just can't
take the conversation,unfortunately, because they
haven't been able to sit withthe fact that, yeah, not
everything is perfect all thetime.
Right, you're going to need tobe able to face problems and

(58:06):
just communicate effectively.
I did this with my wife.
Right, we have, when there'ssomething, we have to work
through something together as ateam, but I think the other
person needs to recognize thatto be able to receive it.
There's that aspect too, right?

Paul Daley (58:21):
Yeah, I think a lot of the time when people don't
recognize it, it's normally outof pride.
You know, and so you know inProverbs I would.
Have you ever read the book ofProverbs?
I haven't.
I think it would be alife-changing experience for you
if you read the book ofproverbs.
And what and side note whetheryou're a christian or not, um,
or you believe in god or not,the book of proverbs is the

(58:43):
essentially wisdom.
It's the big, it's the the bookof wisdom, if you will, in the
world, right, and it is.
It is not going to addressevery single situation you could
think of specifically, but it'sgoing to address every single
way to approach any kind ofsituation that you could think
of, and a lot of.
In Proverbs it really talksabout fools and wise men, and I
think what you're talking abouthere is like when you're trying

(59:04):
to be wise and have thoseconversations wise, being
knowledgeable and acting outknowledge in a wise manner, kind
of thing.
Wise is almost like being awise man is being someone who is
humble and understands theknowledge he has is blessing
from God.
You know, one of the things itsays in Proverbs is, or it might
be, corinthians or James, Ican't remember what book it is,
but I think it's James Knowledge, if you know, without

(59:27):
understanding fear of the Lord,it will puff you up and you get
an ego, et cetera.
And so a lot of people, whenthey aren't willing to have, you
know, confrontationalconversations, it's normally
either that they're scared ofconfrontation or they are so
prideful that they're notwilling to take feedback.
You know, in both cases thosenormally are very destructive
personality traits.

Darren Lee (59:48):
What's your advice for someone to become a better
leader?

Paul Daley (59:52):
I think realistically.
Just, you know everything thatwe talked about in this so far.
You know, yesterday, my videooffer is over here, but we were
at dinner and he I'm going toOllie, is it cool if I say what
you told me yesterday at dinner.
Thank you, bro, appreciate you.
So yesterday he told me thathe's worked for a lot of people

(01:00:14):
in video, um, but out ofeveryone he's worked with, that
he, I'm the one he'd be willingto do anything for.
Uh, and I think it's becauseand I think even we even talked
about a little bit, um, it'sbecause of the tension I told
you I try to live in, you know,I, you can ask ollie, I will be
stern with him and let him knowwhen he's messed up and and I

(01:00:34):
will, I will correct and correctand correct.
He said that in one year andnot one year and one trip of
working with me I think it wasabout a month and a half he
learned more than he did inthree years of university, cause
I, I, I am um, if you everspend time with me, I'm crazy on
making sure that everythingaround is just as optimal as it
can be Right.
So that's the steadfast sideand at least business.

(01:00:54):
But then on the on the otherside, I love all the death and I
do it all because I want him toget better and I do it all
because I you know, I think thathe has all the potential in the
world and so when I have anykind of conversation with him,
it's it's in knowing that I amnot doing it for my own accord,
but for his own accord, and he'snot going to work with me for
life I would like for that.
But he's talented, he'll havetons of opportunities come up

(01:01:17):
and I want him to grow in hispotential as much as possible.
And I think when, and even atEducate, when I think about
Educate, there are guys atEducate James Galligan, who you
probably heard the name of, willtalk about this with me and
like Max the COO now and stuff,I would hope can say this but my
my first year in change.
I think that's how I operatedand I led.

(01:01:38):
I led with with wanting to pourinto people so that they could
be the best versions ofthemselves, and I think, toward
my end of tenure there, it wasfrom self interest.
Uh, and one of the things Ieven talked about.
There's a video I have onYouTube about this.
I read this in a book.
Couldn't tell you for the lifeof me what book it was.
It was Jocko Williams,nevermind, maybe a masterclass
with Jocko, but it's calledLeadership Capital.
And so if you think about therelationship you have with your

(01:01:59):
team and this is like not theheart posture to have toward it,
but it's a good framework ofkind of understanding what your
heart posture is supposed to actlike, right but if you think
about your relationship withyour team as like a bank account
, every time you pour into yourteam, every time whether it's
like you pour into them, you youshow them that or tell them you
did, they did a great job, I'mtalking.

(01:02:22):
I'm talking small things, likeproud of you, to big things,
like just pouring all of youreffort into them, really showing
them how much you love them.
It's all depositing into a bankaccount, but every single time
you're stern and steadfast andcorrective, or asking them to go
above and beyond, or askingthem to work on something, even
if you know it's out of workhours, or whatever you want to
call it.
That's deposit or withdrawingfrom the bank account, and so
you can either withdraw ordeposit into the bank account.

(01:02:43):
I feel like most leaders are,because they're not that warm,
compassionate, pouring in.
They're just depositing from abank account that they have like
little cash in and eventually,you know, you'll have a negative
balance and people leave.
Or people will say, you know, Idon't want to work with Paul, or
blah blah, blah, um.
And so I think, realistically,it all comes back to having that
proper tension as a man or as awoman.

(01:03:03):
Woman, you know, or led to toum, like two different but also
you know, righteous callings in,in, in acting like, like
they're like Christ.
I don't want to speak to thatbecause, to be honest with you,
I'm not versed at all in howwomen are supposed to act when
it comes to leadership like that.
But, all to say, if you havethat tension, I'm going to speak

(01:03:26):
to the guys here as a man ofsteadfast, making sure that you
don't stand for anything butwhat's right, but also being
compassionate and warm and kindin the delivery of that.
I think everyone will will wantto work with you and will want
to be led by you it's abeautiful part to finish up on,
man.

Darren Lee (01:03:45):
I really appreciate you, as always.

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#286 Paul Daley - The Real Reason Most Coaching Businesses FAIL

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#286 Paul Daley - The Real Reason Most Coaching Businesses FAIL