#287 Markus Hussle - The Harsh Truth About Making Millions in Your 20s - Kickoff Sessions

Episode Transcript
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Markus (00:00):
The only thing in life that you own is what's here in
your skill set.
That's the only thing thatpeople can't take away from you.
Everything else people,materialistic things, cars,
money everything else in yourentire life can be taken away
besides the skill set that youpossess.
With OFM in particular, unlikemost business models, it is very
f***ing easy to go from like200k a month to like 10 or 0 a

(00:22):
month.
We're very, very picky on whowe take on because, simply, we
can be.
I don't mean to be a prick, butI just simply have the biggest
social media in this only fansmanagement space.
If you google me, if you googleonly fans management, if you
youtube it, it's my annoying assface that pops up everywhere.
Do you read still or no?

Darren (00:38):
I do intentionally when I when I need to write like pdfs
and stuff or actual books I'dread a book, to be fair, but not
really like religiously, I'mnot like oh my god, I read 52
books this year.
Like I think that stuff is justlike not cool.
But if it's like veryintentional, like the 10x versus
2x is like it's a good reminderthat all the shit you do
fucking doesn't matter, apartfrom like one or two specific

(01:00):
things, and you should get ridof that stuff.
You know, and then a lot of mymates read things that are
non-business related, so likewould it be like spirituality or
whatnot, because like thatmakes you just like an overall
just better kind of person forthat thing.
But I don't know what aboutyourself.

Markus (01:15):
I don't have the time anymore, bro, I wish I could.
But I listen to audiobooks, Ilisten to podcasts, I listen to
courses.
When I'm working out, I feelfeel like courses, like
genuinely, I'm not even justsaying this to like, pretend,
like, oh yeah, buy my course.

Darren (01:27):
I love, I love me, for, like you know, investing in
education is awfully important.

Markus (01:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, oh man, like you know, I'm not
even saying that because of that, I don't care if people buy my
shit, but like myself, I amgenuinely a product of this
stuff.
Like I think it's so important.
Off camera, we're talking aboutone of the like recent uh
courses and we're both agreeingthat only eighteen thousand
dollars, like that, should beworth fifty thousand um, and I

(01:54):
think most people just don't getit, and I get that.

Darren (01:56):
They don't get it because I was that person like
four or five years ago but Ithink, if you look at it, so I
think there's a way to look atthis which is like, let's, let's
say you had like an OFM program.
It's like I'm going there tolearn this fucking thing and by
the end of it I have learnedthat I'm at the next point.
So I would buy things likesales programs and I would do
with the intention of being ableto hire sales reps at the end

(02:18):
of it.
So I go through this program.
Likewise, I bought ones foragencies like how to like manage
clients with agencies.
Likewise, I bought ones foragencies like how to like manage
clients with agencies, stufflike this.
It was very intentional.
But if you go into likesomething that's quite broad,
which most beginners do, andthen they go in and they get
like a touch of everything andthey try to implement it and do
fuck all that's when they leavea one-star review and say it's a
scam that's a good point.

Markus (02:36):
I never I never thought of that, but it's true.
It's like buying a how to startan e-com store, how to start a
SMMA and then how to starttrading all at the same time.
Each one of those do work.
They all have pros and cons,but if you try and do all of
them at the same time whenyou're a beginner, I guarantee
you none of them will work.

Darren (02:55):
Fuck dude.
This is going to be such a good, interesting conversation.
So I know I said to you earlierthat our last part you're doing
60K a month.
That's fucking wild man.
What do you?
What have you got up to?

Markus (03:03):
since then, we've done more than that this week and how
?

Darren (03:08):
how has that kind of growth been?
So like, two years ago you had,you had just a coaching program
at that time, yeah, and thenlike basically like what
happened bro a lot of personalstuff like um, I will do like a
big update soon on YouTube onlike how and why everything has
happened.

Markus (03:26):
But I'll be honest like we just massively neglected the
agency that got us here in thefirst place because the coaching
business was so easy and solucrative, which it still is Now
.
With OFM in particular, unlikemost business models, it is very
fucking easy to go from like200k a month to like 10 or zero

(03:46):
a month.
A matter of fact, you can do itin about two, three months.
With something like SMMA webdesign what most service-based
businesses it doesn't quite worklike that.
Maybe a ROAS ads agency youknow what they are right, so
maybe one like that you couldalso have a massive difference
within a couple months.
And I'll explain why.
Because with ofm, your clientspay you 50 or, on average, 50 of

(04:12):
whatever you make them right oras a total.
And when you're just startingout and you've got a client and
you're taking 50 of one, that'sonly making 2k and you've got
like 10 of them.
If you lose one, it doesn'treally okay.
Wow, you lost a thousanddollars to your fucking bottom
line revenue.
You're not gonna die, yeah, butthen you got 10 clients and

(04:33):
each one of them, on average, ismaking you 2k and you're taking
50 and some leave, some come,it's okay, but you're kind of
you know tiny littlefluctuations in your income.
But then eventually you do getlucky or right place at the
right time.
You get a client that's alreadymaking 50,000 a month and then
all of a sudden you scale her to70, 80, 100,000.

(04:54):
Or let's just say she juststays at 50, which is very
unlikely.
But let's just say you have aclient now at 50k and you're on
50%.
So now that's an extra 25,000 amonth to your bottom line
revenue.
All of a sudden you're going tobe like right, this one client
is making me more money, lesseffort, less problems, less
headache than all of my other 10smaller clients.

(05:15):
I'm just going to put morefocus into this one client or
actively just drop all of theother clients.
Now, for us it was the firstoption, which is we just uh,
I'll be honest, I can like.
This is just a lesson.
You know that I learned thehard way, which is I just put
all my focus into the bigclients that we had.
We had three huge clients.
One was making like 70, one was100, one was 150, around that

(05:41):
ballpark and I mean, yeah, thesethree clients were making a
dramatically more money,dramatically more money, uh,
drastically more, uh, more moneythan all of our of our clients.
So, yeah, without realizing it,we simply neglected these
clients.
They didn't get as greatresults, like it started
plateauing instead of increasing.
They left and were like nooffense, but I don't really.
All right, I wish you the best,but, like these clients are
making us way more money andthen, before you realize it,

(06:04):
your risk tolerance is likethrough the roof, because now
your entire lifeline is relianton free clients and they don't
really care about you.
You know, like these, you knowyou try and provide the best
service in the world.
But the other thing, when thisbusiness model is um, lots of
things can happen where a clientmight leave.

(06:25):
Maybe she has a change of heartand she doesn't want to do it
anymore.
Maybe she gets a partner and hedoesn't want her to do this
anymore, right?
Maybe she wants to move houseand that's a big fucking project
.
So now she has way less energyand focus to create content and
if she does that, then there'snot much we can do.
We can't create the content forher and all these different
things, which is what led us towhen we have in that

(06:46):
conversation where we're prettymuch just running the coaching
business at that point.

Darren (06:50):
Just want to take one quick break to ask you one
question have you been enjoyingthese episodes?
Because, if you have, I'dreally appreciate if you
subscribe to the channel so thatmore people can see these
episodes and be influenced tobuild an online business this
year.
Thank you, it's crazy, right,because you're dealing with all
the worst parts of someone'semotions.
You're dealing with all thenegative sides of people's

(07:13):
emotions, but I think you kindof shouldn't be too harsh on
yourself because of the factthat the bell curve is the bell
curve, for the reason is thatyou will have people who are
outliers and those outliersshould be treated with outlier
attention but at the same time,when you can service the other
people what you were doing, theymay be calm outliers, but it's

(07:34):
just like a coaching program,it's like a classroom.
There will be people who willjust naturally outperform.
They'll just be killers.
It's your job as the founder tofind the fucking killers and
then obviously nurture andsupport them and try to get more
of them.
But the reason why they'reoutliers is because they're a
fucking outlier.
So it's hard because I'll giveyou an example.
There's a personal story.
We do sponsorships and we havesome guys making 50K a month,

(07:58):
60k a month, 70k a month.
We have some guys making zero,but they're in our network and
they don't pay us anything.
It's to your point, it's revshare.
So what I'm trying to say isthat not everyone is going to be
great.
So how do you, how do you buildan agency of killers?
Right, like, how would you dothat?

Markus (08:16):
You know it's funny like you've genuinely just answered
it with the first thing that yousaid.
So that's exactly what we do.
We have two different offersfor two different types of
clients with the first thingthat you said.
So that's exactly what we do wehave two different offers for
two different types of clients.
Now, we're very, very picky onwho we take on because, simply,
we can be I don't mean to be aprick, but I just simply have
the biggest social media in thisOnlyFans management space.
If you Google me, if you GoogleOnlyFans management, if you

(08:38):
YouTube it, it's my annoying ass, fucking face that pops up
everywhere.

Darren (08:41):
I remember when you said that you created the term OFM,
to me Quite literally.

Markus (08:45):
Yeah, like, I have a YouTube video that state like,
literally it's all dated and I'mlike, oh, I think I'm going to
call it OFM.
So because of all of that, weget to be quite picky on who we
work with.
Right, we have very, very clearoutlines on who qualifies and
who doesn't.
And what's crazy is it's notabout the looks or how much
she's making right now, like, ofcourse, these things do come to

(09:06):
account in the long term andthe bigger picture, but it's not
the determining factor whetherwe're going to work with
somebody or not.
The main things that we lookfor is their availability right
now, what kind of contentthey're happy to do, how long
they've been already on theplatform and also what stage of
life are they in right now, like, for example, if they are in
their hot girl summer travel inthe world phase.
All the, all the fucking loveto you right, like, go for it,

(09:30):
I'm not going to work with you.
That's headache.

Darren (09:35):
What's some ridiculous stories you have?
Like, you have to have somefucking hilarious stories from
clients yeah, just dumb shit.

Markus (09:43):
They're just like some of them have just been like
stupid excuses and like, likeexcuse after excuse, like just
stupid stuff where, like youjust know that it's cap or it's
it's, it's, it's true.
But then you're like, okay, butwhy couldn't you just take the
photos and videos, like, okay,the one of the most stupid ones
that we've had recently is shehad a really bad tan line and

(10:05):
that was big and like shecouldn't create content because
of that.
It's like, bro, it's just a tanline, nobody cares that much,
but anyway.
So to answer your questionabout like how do we find them,
is, uh, we give them twodifferent offers depending on,
uh, the answers they give us onthe call.
Right, so if they say, yeah,like you know, I've only been
doing it for three months andI'm also traveling around Asia.

(10:26):
I'm in Bali right now and thenI'm going here and I've recently
broke up and split up with myex and all this stuff it's like,
okay, you're probably not inthe best place right now to put
your 110% focus in, so we'regoing to give you this offer,
which is, in an essence, thesame team.
Everything is just they getslightly less things given to
them and done for them.
The reason for that is becauseour done for you services cost

(10:48):
me quite a lot of money.
We have a large team that willedit the content, post it,
redistribute it, organizecollaborations and so on and so
on and so on.
Right, all of these thingsobviously cost me a lot of money
, which then means that if theclient isn't putting in the
effort, aka we don't see alongevity.
So, for me, I know that I'mgoing to spend this much this
month and I'm only going to makeit back in a month, two, three

(11:08):
onwards.
So if she doesn't put in theeffort and we part ways in the
first 30 days which, by the waywhich is another interesting
fact I actually part ways morewith my clients than other way
around.
When I first started, it was theother way around.
My clients would like leavebecause I provided a shit
service, because we were juststarting out, like nobody knew
what we're doing and I justlearned from from my mistakes,
you know.

(11:29):
But now it's, it's genuinelythe other way around.
Um, for example, today,literally just today, we dropped
another client, like we droppedthem.
We're very nice about it and uh, um, obviously we're very
professional, if anything.
Also, we, we have an entireoffboarding process where, if
they want to, we can actuallyhelp them find another agency.
So we're not just like right,like you're not making us enough

(11:50):
money, you're gone just the wayclients would do that right.

Darren (11:53):
Say again just the way.

Markus (11:54):
Clients would often just be like all right things are
clients would do that.

Darren (11:57):
You know what I mean like dude I've often just had
invoices it's like 20k, justlike unpaid, and then like I'll
get an email from like a lawyertwo weeks later being like can I
have the short form content youcreated?
I'm like pro, that's not howthis works, you know.
Because they're like it's myusage, right.
It's like bro, it's my fuckinginvoice.

Markus (12:14):
You didn't pay bro, the online internet money space is
the funny.
Like I genuinely find this shitso funny.
But, like, when you look atthese things in real life terms,
like, like some of it is sostupid, like, for example, in
the coaching space, and I love,I love it I genuinely like I
never get mad or emotional aboutthis stuff.
I used to don't get me wrong, Iused to right, but now I just

(12:34):
either giggle at it or Iactually like I'm like okay, how
can I learn from this?
But most of the time, I findthis shit funny, which is like
you paid me your hardearnedearned money and I love
that and I appreciate that.
Thank you so much, because thatmeans you trust in me and my
product.
You've then gone througheverything and then you've also
got results yourself becauseyou've shared it with me.
You've also given us atestimonial and I have an entire

(12:55):
15-minute YouTube videointerview with you saying how
much of a great investment thiswas.
And then you asked for a refund.
Like what, bro?
As you're going into arestaurant eating the food and
be like yo, I can't lie, this isone of the best passes I've
ever had.
Week later, actually, I'm gonnacome back.
Can I have my money back.

Darren (13:14):
I have even a worse one than that.
I have someone who like boughtour service, right, and it's
like we produce podcast people,okay, so we, we release them
under content.
And the guy kind of like fuckedaround and didn't pay the
invoice initially and I was likeI'll leave it go.
He kind of was a big name aswell, so I was like I kind of
just let it be.
And then a month later he'slike this is a ton of work.
I don't, I'm not ready tocommit to all this work.

(13:35):
And I was like, okay, bro, canyou just clear the invoice for
the work we did.
But then, uh, we'll just leaveit, we leave it it off, we won't
.
We have a contract, bro, like along-term contract, and I'll
just waver the contract.
And he was like well, actuallyyou didn't produce the amount of
episodes you produce, you onlyproduce this amount.
I'm like, bro, you didn't payfor any of it, right.

(13:55):
And I'm like I said to him Iwas like it's kind of like this
you go for dinner and and youorder the steak, the green beans
and red wine, you drink oneglass of red wine, half the
steak and 80 of green beans andyou look for a discount on the
remainder of what you didn't eat.
I was like you just don't dothat.
It's also it's like not real.
You can't do that stuff, youknow, and I think the reason why

(14:18):
is because there's no rulesyeah, correct, like there's no
regulations.

Markus (14:21):
There's no regulation rules set out.

Darren (14:23):
Yeah yeah, I spoke to jordan platten about this
recently and he said that iscoming, just like regulation in
the space.
He said in the uk they'relooking at scarcity and urgency
laws.

Markus (14:32):
I don't know.
I feel like jordan's beensaying that for nearly two years
now.
I hope so.
I mean, like I just feel likethen it would get rid of a lot
more of these overnight coursesellers.
But you know, another thingthat I've learned as well and
I'm glad I learned this onlylike last year is like if
somebody wants a refund, justgive it to them Like it's not
like, like think about it, bro,it's like you either.

(14:54):
In very unlikely amount of timesit actually is just a dickhead
who actually genuinely has gotvalue, genuinely actually has
made money or whatever theywanted to get out of it.
They actually got it.
But they just want their moneyback because of maybe Christmas
or whatever, and like theyactually need that money, right,
um, but in most cases whenpeople ask for a refund, it's

(15:14):
just something was missing, likemaybe it was 90% good, but
something was still missing.
Where they're like I want mymoney back and it's like, fuck,
I've tried my best, but, yeah,sure, no problem.
But can I, can I please atleast ask you give me some
feedback?
Like what was it?
Just tell me, be honest.
And I asked that.
I even asked that for my staffmembers as well, by the way,
like with um, uh, one part of myagency, the chatting right so

(15:38):
where the guys are essentiallydoing the messages et cetera Um,
there's a fairly high churnrate on that, just because the
the role, you know, for somepeople it's not quite what they
expected and they don't seelongevity and etc.
Which I say that to them upfront when I'm hiring them, like
I'm like I know you're notgoing to do this for two years,
but let's just do it for atleast one and lock the fuck in
and make a lot of money.

(15:58):
But anyway, some guys, you know, leave after a couple months.
And even for staff, staffmembers I asked them, like I'm
literally very like, tell me,please be honest, you're not
going to hurt my feelings, isthere anything that we could
have done differently or helpedyou with anything more, etc.
For you to stay?
I think that's the best way tolearn, as opposed to, like with
the refunds, for example, justfighting it and then you have a

(16:20):
one star review, bro, there'sa's a guy, right, there's a true
story.
There's a kid yeah, he must'vebeen 18.
He purchased my course and,bear in mind, by the way, this
is the completely evergreenversion.
So I never.
I didn't even know who this kidwas.
I never spoke to him, I neverjumped on a call with him,
anything.
He bought just my course, whichmeans that he's just watching

(16:40):
your course.
There's no calls of me, youdon't get to talk to me.
I didn't know this kid'sexistence, right?
He bought the course, he wentthrough the whole thing and then
he must have emailed my supportteam asking for a refund.
But obviously we can see howmuch he's watched it.
And then we do have a thingthat they got a tick, which
means that if you watched itafter a certain percentage,
we're just not eligible for arefund because you've watched

(17:02):
more than half of it, whichobviously must have been the
case, and my team must've saidno and blah, blah.
And also another thing as wellwhen you get to this stage, like
there are so many moving parts,I don't even know some of my
staff members that make me aload of money.
I don't even know most of mystudents who aren't in my
community, right, and it's crazy, but anyway, this must've been
a case where, like, I don't knowthe guy, the student, and I

(17:22):
don't know the staff that musthave spoken to him, and the guy
right, he made a YouTube video.
Bro, he put up a YouTube videoand it was like how Marcus
Hussle scammed me for $700.
Brother, I messaged him.
I was like yo, I am so sorryfor what this happened.
Please let's talk like, becauseyou did not, I haven't spoken
to you.
We jumped on a call, honestly anice kid.

(17:44):
There was just amiscommunication.
Um, I personally issued him therefund and I was like I'm sorry
, like da da, da, da, and hetook the video down, like so the
point I'm trying to make herewith this is like imagine what
would you rather, as a business,refunding $700?
Cause if I saw his email, Iobviously would have refunded
him, right?
Um, or do you just go throughthis entire fucking phase of da

(18:07):
da, da, da da, putting a YouTubevideo out and all this stuff?

Darren (18:10):
It's the energy.
It's the energy that you givetowards that.
And one of my mentors said tome, which is like never have a
conversation with someone who'snot in the room.
So, having all of these fuckingcross assumptions and having
this baseline knowledge andthinking about this, where it's
like just speak to the person,hop on a call, like that's a
very noble thing for you to do.
Most guys would not do it andhe was fucking banned, the guy,

(18:30):
right.
But that that space is alsointeresting, right, Like the
whole.
Like bashing, I remember one ofmy mates recently it seems like
a fucking spider man, not likesaying, which is like if you're
the hero, if you're the herolong enough, you like become the
villain, right, and like that'swhat happened with like shit,
like the iman videos and bro, he, he, he's just so smart that,

(18:51):
like all these videos were likeiman's a scammer.
Then he created his own videowhich was like 150 million
dollar net worth, like is he ascammer?
Like where does his money comefrom?
So you have two sides to it,right, which is like these, like
these guys are.
You know, these guys are, Iwouldn't say I'd say lost, but
they create these videos for Godknows what reason.

Markus (19:14):
And it's how you react in that regard.
I think I do know why, bro,because, like me and you, we
were those kids.
You know where we were broke.
We didn't have much money andwhat did we have?
We had loads of time.
So then, if you, if $700 is alot of money to you and you now
feel like this person has lost,uh, stolen it from you, even
though technically they haven'tyou've fucking played it
yourself and you've agreed tothe terms of services and all

(19:35):
this stuff but if you still feellike they've stolen these $700
from you, and then you just haveall the time in the world,
you'll be like, okay, well, whatcan I do?
Like you know, I've asked themthis, I've reached out to the
team and no one's getting backto me.
What else can I do?
So then this is probably whereall these things come from, and
this is again what I mean islike, if somebody is asking for
a refund, I think just get it.
I think it's just so mucheasier With with, obviously, by

(19:56):
the way.
Like with in means like if.
If somebody genuinely hasbought it and go through the
whole fucking thing and they'vesigned a contract and agreed in
terms of services, and thenthey're still asking for a
refund.
It's like right, well, likethis is just not fair.

Darren (20:10):
It's like returning your fucking used underpants, yeah,
like what the fuck bro?

Markus (20:13):
no one's.

Darren (20:14):
Nobody does that right, dude, it sounds like you fucking
learned so much shit, though,like as in, it sounds like
you've really matured justyourself in the business context
.
Right, it's just like you'vejust kind of beaten through the
wars.

Markus (20:24):
Yeah, I feel like.
I feel like the last year ormaybe even two years since we
spoke or some something likethis Right, I feel like I've
massively been able to take astep back and look at this
online space from a third personpoint of view where, like when
we first done the potty, it waslike I was very I'm still in the
trenches, don't get me wrong,I'm still locked in I was very
I'm still in the trenches, don'tget me wrong, I'm still locked

(20:45):
in, I'm still working every day.
But back then it was more oflike I'm in between everybody,
I'm in the same kind of uh laneas everybody, and I don't mean
to sound like a dickhead or likereally cocky, but I really do
feel like I'm like I wouldn'tsay above, but like I really do
feel like that you know, it's acategory of when you're doing
your own thing my own thing,right, and I really do genuinely
feel like I'm able to look atcertain things that people do

(21:06):
and I'm like this is so cringebecause I used to do that.
And now, like the things thatI've learned from it.
Like, for example, right, forexample, like for all of my
competition that is maybeperhaps watching this, you also
want to do what I do.
It's like think about it thisway, right, and I learned this
from doing it myself the wrongway.
It's like the type of contentthat you create will attract
that type of audience.

(21:26):
So if you're just constantlyonly showing flashy lambos and
supercars on your watches, guyslike me and you don't really
give a fuck about it anymore,this is like zara.
Okay, these are expensivetrainers, but this is like a
normal, like jacket, normalt-shirt this is like a shit $20
top that I painted my company onyou know what I mean, like so.

(21:47):
So who are you trying to attract?

Darren (21:48):
you know, and I've realized I was- thinking that
exact thing I said to youearlier, which is like you
become yourself as a result.
You know, like, like I've hitthe six figures a month, the
multi six years a month, and Irealized I was like I just
fucking like my dogs, bro.
You know, just like chilling mydogs and stuff, and I love the
game, but I'm not impressed witha game.
It's different, right?

Markus (22:07):
yeah I think, I think, yeah, the biggest thing is you
just learn to move smarter andnot wasting your time and energy
.
I feel like creating and don'tget me wrong, by the way,
there's a time and a place whenwe're talking about content
creation.
There's a time and a place toget views, and that is when you
show the flashy stuff, etc.
Perhaps there's a new eventyou're releasing or there's a
new thing that you're launchingand you want to build some hype

(22:29):
up around it, you want to getsome more eyeballs on, etc.
But overall, if your goal is tomake money, your content should
be adjusted to that right bro.

Darren (22:40):
uh, my mate tom said to me before so everyone knows the
emit, which is like yourbusiness is a reflection of you,
but also your customers are areflection of you.
And I found that a lot in ourcoaching program because it was
guys that were likeentrepreneurs, they were doing
really well or they were justgetting started, but they were
serious.
You know, they're kind of likethey're really serious and
hopefully it was a reflection ofme which was like oh, I'm not,

(23:01):
we're not in this for the 60fucking minutes of fame, right.
I think it's a very interestingobservation.
So you see that a lot inprograms like where guys are
just like are they there for thebanter, literally already here
to really learn?
Um, and you can extrapolatethat from everything your
content's reflection of you,your audience, your followers,

(23:22):
and the irony is that you don'tactually need the biggest
breadth of people, right?
So I think it's funny because,like the lambo photos are,
they're not conducive towardswhat you want in the end, right
it feels cool in a moment.

Markus (23:35):
But then you're like why am I not getting?

Darren (23:37):
clients.
So why the fuck does apple notbuy my product?
It's like they don't give ashit about this.
Also, I want to ask you aboutthat, though, because, like you
know, if you, if we stoppedtalking right now, we'd hear
some fucking VA turbo in thebackground, right, do you?
I feel quite desensitized to it.
Like, how do you feel, as in?

(23:57):
Like, when I see it, I'm kindof like, oh, like they're in the
corner of some nice restaurant.
It was like a Bugatti out thereearlier and I was like it's
cool.
I was like it's cool, but Ijust walked on.
Before we go any further, I haveone question for you.
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(24:19):
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(24:39):
So check that out right downbelow.

Markus (24:42):
Well, I suppose, yeah, like seeing it is like you just
forget about it.
It is what it is, it's justanother sports car.
But I then like, for example, Irecently met with one of my
friends and we met for the firsttime in like six months or so
and we literally sat and spokefor about two hours about the
new helicopter that he bought,and then we're talking about the

(25:02):
hanger, that is he's done, andhe we're talking about the
restitching of the interior andthen how he's repainted it and
all this stuff.
And the point I'm making hereis that I feel like these
materialistic things they'llnever go away.
What the fuck we're all menlike, let's be honest, like we
do this to be able to obviouslylook after our loved ones, etc.
But then eventually to buyfucking cool things that nobody
else has, or just things thatyou've always actually wanted.

(25:24):
Uh so, and then they just getmore and more rare, which means
the price goes up more and more.

Darren (25:31):
It's like if the prius was two million, for whatever
reason, people would kind ofwant that right well, the
difference there is the factthat, like this guy is super
nerdy around the stitching, likehe actually does enjoy it,
versus like I got thishelicopter, so this chick might
actually know exactly.

Markus (25:46):
He's been in aviation since he was like 23.

Darren (25:48):
Well, that's different, yeah, you know that that's like
a different case, you know.
Um, yeah, it's just unique,right.
Does that make sense?
So like, if you, if you haveenabled yourself, due to the
capital that you've acquired, tobe able to get the things I
know people have, no one wants,that's awesome, and that can be
different for everyone butyou're definitely right.

Markus (26:03):
like here in Dubai, you do get desensitized like um,
whenever I go back to London Ihave a good friend of mine who
owns a luxury supercar rentalcompany and, um, like, I always
rent my cars from him and evenlike an Audi R8, which
technically is a sports carsupercar, I wanted the fucking
two.
Um, it's just a hurricane, butlike people going insane, you

(26:25):
know, in London, like takingphotos running after it and it's
cool, it's amazing.

Darren (26:31):
And when a kid sees it, there's a knife coming after it.

Markus (26:32):
Yeah well, yeah, they're running with a knife.
It's cool.
Until they, yeah, bring out thezombie.

Darren (26:40):
It's cool until they break the windshield.

Markus (26:43):
But yeah, but you forget about it, right, because you
drive around it here and it'sjust like nobody cares, like
maybe somebody takes one photo.
That's about it bro.

Darren (26:50):
The analogy for that is, like you know, in the gym, like
once you're like fit for themost part and you can have
biceps, you're done, because theonly person who cares about
your rear delts are the otherguys in the gym.
Right, that's the only personwho gives a shit.
So do you really need to get tofour percent body fat?
No, it's also not really thatcool, you know.
So that's the irony.

(27:11):
Situation is like if you'rewell, if you're, if you, if you
have the capital and you have anice care, the chicks don't know
the difference between afucking audi r8 and a fucking
lambo.

Markus (27:21):
They just don't have you , have you ever?
Uh, have you ever experiencedthe bagels?

Darren (27:25):
I know, obviously not anymore, but before no, because,
like I, I've been with at leastfive years, but then before
that has been five, okay, fiveyeah, I was just fucking broke
as fuck beforehand, you know.
So it was interesting because,like when I was traveling a lot
when I was younger, it's likewhen you were building
businesses, I was traveling, youknow, and like the chicks you
run into, you are broke andthey're also broke because

(27:45):
you're like in a fucking hostelin croatia and it's really based
on a charisma, you know, it'salso based on alcohol too.
It's like getting smashed, youknow.
But like, if you're like Iwouldn't even say in a club,
like I would say like in, like asmoking area of a club, it's
just based on like game, talkingto chicks, like it's, it's
based on a different metric.
So that's why, for me, I Ioften say, like, you know,

(28:07):
people, people talk about like,oh, should you like make the bag
first or get the girl first?
I think, you know, waiting to berich again attracts the wrong
type of girl, because if you'reonly if you're waiting to get
wealthy, you're only attractinggirls that are interested
because they're wealthy.
And then like, is that someoneyou want to marry?
Is that someone you may want tohave kids with?
You know, like my wife, at theend of the day, like she's happy

(28:29):
with the lifestyle she has.
She never works a day in herlife.
But she also isn't in it forthe cash right.

Markus (28:35):
Yeah, it's a super interesting one because it's a
conundrum right, because whenyou're broke and then you get a
girl, or at least the wrong girl, it's way harder to scale a
business because of the wronggirl.
It's like can we do this?
Can we go here?
Why are you?
Can we watch this?
But?

Darren (28:48):
it's not happen with a, with a, when you're like making
200k a month and you're withlike a russian chick, right um
yeah, but but you, you get moreleverage.

Markus (28:57):
I feel like, at least from my personal experience, I I
, instead of having to explainmyself, I'm like no, I'm doing
this, I'll be back in an hour ortwo, whereas I feel like when
you're on a come up, it's likeshe's like you're fucking
working all the time.
Yeah, I don't have a Birkin, sowhich one is it?
Like I don't get to see you asmuch and I don't get to see the
luxury lifestyle.
You see what I mean.
So it's it's for a girl pointof view.

(29:20):
It's the negative of both,whereas when you've already got
a bit of cash to supplement thefact that you're not there as
much, you get to give her money.

Darren (29:28):
Well, how, whatever the girl wants, you know what I mean
yeah, well, I guess that'sactually connected with the
chick on an emotional levelthough, right, because you're
like, oh, like I'm, like she'slike the girl is not necessarily
interested in what you have.
Or you can give them likeinterested in who you are, right
.
So like you're someone who'slike ambitious, like you can
spot those guys right.
Like the guys are going throughyour program that are young,
they could be broke, but we justknow what are going to be

(29:50):
wealthy 100, you know I can justtell it's one call five minutes
.

Markus (29:54):
I already know who is.

Darren (29:55):
Yeah exactly, there's a guy in my program right now
who's 19 years old.
He joined the program making 4ka month.
Now he's making 22k a month.
He's fucking 19 and he had atough life.
Man mom died of cancer, I thinkhis dad, uh, wasn't present as
well.
She's on his own, he's livingin wisconsin and like that's to
go you better, you know, andhe's a girlfriend and so on.
You know, and uh, I thinkthat's what's interesting, it's

(30:17):
a characteristic trait.
And then, similarly, if you'refinding a partner, you just want
to make sure that, like thiswoman isn't necessarily just
there for the bag, right?
Um, yeah, there's like a deeperunderlying because it is, you
know, without going superfucking meta, like the
connection for a woman iscompletely different than a guy,
right?

Markus (30:37):
100 you know.

Darren (30:38):
That's why, like often, like a girl would just want you
to be like, present in aconversation, versus like here's
a new handbag, right, becausethe handbag is kind of like the
man's equivalent of like gettingthe lambo.
It's like yeah again.
It's like, yes, that's great,but like you still have to deal
with all the other shit thatgoes on in life, it's

(30:58):
interesting but I feel likedealing with women is so fucking
complicated and you have tolearn over a long period of time
.

Markus (31:04):
I guess maybe I've been very fortunate in the sense that
I grew up with my mom for mostof my life, so my mom taught me
a lot of things, subconsciously,like we never sat down and she
was like right, this is howwomen think.

Darren (31:14):
But I feel like over a long period of time I just
realized that, oh, if I do thisor say this or don't come back
by this time, it makes her feellike this and I feel like,
subconsciously, you understandthese things from observing you
and your mother, it seems likeshe's like very empathetic yeah,
super yeah and like that worksbecause you're logical, yeah
right, so like it's like thefeminine and the masculine, like
she was, like she was providingfor you and she was giving you

(31:36):
lots of like, care and nurturingwhen you were just like I'm
gonna fucking make it, I'm gonnafucking make it and fucking
make it.
And that's the way my wife are.
So like she is there to kind oflike support me.
When I'm peeling my fuckinghead off the laptop at 12
o'clock at night, I'm like myeyes are like trembling and like
this literally happens likenicotine, coffee, too many calls
, my eyes are like peeling andthen she's just there like, oh,

(31:58):
like you know, I think I canhelp wood, whereas I wouldn't
want the boss babe because, likeshe's like what's your mmr?
she just wants.
And that's what happens, bro.
I can't imagine anything worse.
But that's what happens isbecause if you find someone
who's like a boss babe, the twoof you both compete on the
metric of masculinity.
Likewise, if you're a littlebitch, you both compete on a

(32:19):
feminine scale.
So you'll find a girl who'slike you know, she's very
passive, you're also kind ofpassive and as a result, then
you're both, like you know,talking about like, which
fucking conditioner to buy?

Markus (32:31):
right, yeah, yeah, like you will yield towards that, you
know.

Darren (32:34):
So that's why I'm in like the masculine seat, at
least in a very feminine,feminine, sweet feminine seat.
And uh, I'll give you anexample.
So I was recording a podcast.
I came off a flight on SaturdaySaturday, stayed up all flight
because I can't sleep on planestrained, worked all day, met my

(32:57):
mate Dakota, we recorded a threehour podcast and we went out
for dinner together and we werejust talking about work and shit
.
I was fucked, bro, fucked upfor two days.
I messaged my wife she wasplanning our dog's birthday
party and she spent all day oncanva making the fucking poster
to send to her tree friends tocome to it.
That's what she did on saturdayand I spent like 18 hours

(33:18):
working on saturday that's howit should be, and that's why I
said I was perfect.
She sent me on the photo and Iwas like perfect.
I was like, and I was like it'son friday.
She was like you got to bethere.
I was like cool and like that'swhat I want.
I don't want someone to be like.
And then I made this funnel andthen this vsl hits this lead my
client's really frustrating metoday like, oh bro, I can't do

(33:39):
that.
No way, dude, there's a there'sanother angle to take on this,
which is the net, like income orbenefit that can come from the
two masculine tackling it out.
So I'll give an example.
In western world where, like,everyone is considered to be
about like, they inspire you tobe a boss, babe, and stuff what
often matters I get reallyfucking nerdy on this is like

(34:01):
the man and the woman both go towork and then they're both
doing like mid-level jobs,making 4k each.
Okay, they have a baby.
The woman is under an insaneamount of pressure from the boss
to go back to work.
She's like get back to work,get back to work, get back to
work.
They pay for daycare.
Daycare is like 3k, 4k.
Now she is literally.

(34:22):
They are literally working toput the kid back into daycare,
whereas the woman didn't want todo in the first place.
And now they're both fightingand jostling to get back to work
and they have a massive likeissue with the relationship.
And I, I've, I've literally seenthat I know, I know people that
do that and that's the reasonI'm saying I know people do it.
And then I said I was like well, if the woman didn't want to

(34:42):
work, why doesn't?
Why doesn't the guy just makemore money.
That's literally what I said.
I was like it would not beeasier, because there's an
exponent.
Right, money has an exponentwhich is like, if the goal of
money it's not the fucking beat,the fucking dead horse, and uh,

(35:06):
people are like oh no, don't,don't, that's, that's bad, don't
say things like that.
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
Cause, if someone didn't wantto do that, why would you ask
them to do it?

Markus (35:14):
Right Cause if you're very minor when you know you
were your your wife's pregnant,you've got as in they.

Darren (35:30):
What I'm saying is they did it the right way, like the
woman wanted to be at home, thewife wanted to be at home, so
she was at home, and then thedad worked harder and he was in
sales and he was homeless as akid but then he was making like
a million a fucking year when hewas 30, and then it worked.

Markus (35:44):
So, case by case, you know the thing is, I think for a
lot of people they'll hearthings like this and they're
like, yeah, well, it's fuckingeasy to say for you guys in
dubai driving these supercars,right, because that was me
probably five, six years ago,right, like, oh, yeah, all right
, man fucking out.
Yeah, I'll just read a book aweek and I'll become a
millionaire like you.
Yeah, sure, but guess what itdoes actually happen if you just
work hard and you just stayfocused.

Darren (36:06):
I've never taken a day off, right.
I've since I started my podcast, because I was in genesis of
everything.
I've never taken it off.
I worked in tech.
I got up at six o'clock in themorning, I did six to nine and
then night, then six to nine inthe evening and I think, people.

Markus (36:18):
I don't think that will go over people's head.
And you still work out, youstill travel, you still have a
social life, you still all ofthese things so what's the
alternative?

Darren (36:26):
this is my, this is my big thing with this stuff is
like, if, like, if you, let'ssay, you build your agency and
you're doing 10k a month or 8k amonth and you're fucking
stressed as fuck, the answerisn't to stop.
The answer is to keep goinguntil it's not stressful,
because your baseline levels ofstress will increase, your
tolerance will get better andyou'll hire the team and stuff.
That's the answer to yourquestion.
The question isn't I'm going togo back to my job.

(36:49):
Like what the fuck are youtalking about?
People prefer to take aguaranteed level of like
terrible life, like a very poorstandard of living, instead of
the opportunity of going for it.
Right, right With the risk, butthe only variable of risk bear
in mind is your input, becausehopefully, people have seen,
like the past couple of years,all the tech companies laying

(37:09):
off people.
That is the most risky thingyou can do.
And one of my clients and greatfriends his startup in his 50s
went to shit and then he wasgoing to go take a job as a
C-suite executive, probably makelike 50k a month, roughly like
this guy worked for 40 years.
Right, he's going to be like anexecutive and then instead we
built him an offer which was atraining program and then he

(37:32):
scaled that super quickly to 60,60, 70k a month and I said to
him I was like for your level ofinput back to how hard you can
work, that is the least riskything you could possibly do,
because the riskiest thing is hegets a job and he gets caught
again in a six months time youknow, but people don't have even
even when I was broke, I alwaysunderstood they're both

(37:53):
difficult.

Markus (37:54):
Being poor is difficult, being rich is difficult.
I didn't know how difficultbeing rich was, but I knew it
wasn't going to be fucking easy,because if it was easy then
everybody would have been rich.
So they're both difficult.
They've they genuinely are likeactually realize how insane
that one sentence is like beingpoor is very difficult.
I know it because I've beenthere.
Being rich is also difficult,but a different difficult.

Darren (38:15):
It's more up here but you'll never go back to it
though, right, because like shit.

Markus (38:19):
Even if I do, bro, like I'm not scared of it.
You know, like 100 I'm not 100because, like what, I just have
to eat pot noodle and live in aone-bedroom apartment.
As long as I can get enoughmoney to buy a laptop and have
like 4g and wi-fi, I'll get backthere and 100, right right, but
you have the skill right,exactly, and that's the thing
that's that's really valuable.

(38:40):
I think homozy says this all thetime the only thing that you
actually own, the only thing inlife that you own, is what's
here in your skillset right.
That's the only thing thatpeople can't take away from you.
Everything else people,materialistic things, cars,
money everything else in yourentire life can be taken away
besides the skillset that youpossess.

Darren (38:58):
And everyone skips.
I had a podcast with thisyesterday, which and everyone
skips.
I had a podcast with usyesterday, which was when you
someone buys a service, theyskip this skill acquisition and
experience and it's fine becausethey pay the 5k a month or
they've skipped it.
But you have to understand thatby paying for it, you still
need to acquire it in some way,because people think they can
skip the fucking painful part.
So can you buy a program?

(39:18):
You know how much people buy aprogram but don't start the
program.
They think that they got it.
They have the dopamine fromstarting it, which is like you
need to learn front end salesand marketing and you need to
learn back end, which is justlike how to run something, but
like that's, that's all you doneed.
You know that's.
The irony is that you don'teven need to learn funnels.
You don't need to learn vsls inthe beginning, right, you just
need to learn how do I get userstraffic and how do I give them

(39:41):
something.

Markus (39:43):
I wish there was a statistic somewhere, somehow, if
you could find it on the amountof gym equipment that people
purchase coming up to new yearsthat doesn't ever get used,
still has the label on it in thewardrobe somewhere deep, deep,
far back behind.
That's the same point, right?
People buy that said thing andafter they make that purchase it
hits them, that dopamine.

(40:03):
I feel great.
Okay, this is the new year, I'mgoing to go to the gym, I'm
going to get in the best shape.
I can already imagine the ladsholiday.
I'm going to fly to Spain, I'mgonna get all the baddies, and
then they just don't go gym ever.
They just carry on the sameshit.
It's so interesting.
But you know, I think I wasspeaking to that friend who just
bought the helicopter.
We were saying, like about howthe fuck we ended up here.

(40:23):
I mean, obviously, hard work iswhat it comes down to, but
we're saying, like, what are thesome of the things that me and
him have both done and learnedand developed that has given us
a massively unfair edge to getus here?
And we both agreed that it wassales and psychology.
However, sales, sales ispsychology.
So then we narrowed it down tojust psychology and I've been

(40:47):
massively obsessed with humanpsychology since.
Well, reading books wise aboutfour years ago.
But even when I was a littlekid like thinking back at it
I'll always remember, likeself-analyzing, because I was a
single.
I'm a single child, right, Idon't have brothers and sisters.
I was always just bored bymyself thinking in my head.
So I was always self-analyzing.
When I'm around people, when Isay something, how does that

(41:09):
person react to how I said it,what did I say, how can I make
him feel different, et cetera.
And then, about four or fiveyears ago, is when I started
reading all of the books aboutpsychology and like actually
learning, not just like readingfor the sake of it and posting a
picture on my Instagram story,like actually reading it and
understanding, and if I don'tunderstand it, let me go back

(41:29):
and reread it again.
And like, holy fuck, if that'sthe one thing that I can help or
give advice to anybody is,learn psychology.
Cause once you understandpsychology, everything it's
sales, it's marketing, it'sfunnels, it's copywriting, it's
video, it's the hook, it'sediting not physically editing,
but it's how you edit and whereyou add things, et cetera.
Cause once you understand, okay, this part is boring.

(41:52):
Why is it boring?
Because it's a bit too long.
My attention span is short.
Okay, all of a sudden,everything also goes.

Darren (41:58):
I was going to say I'm dating Right.

Markus (42:00):
That's probably the biggest one.

Darren (42:02):
So what were the big areas?
Like, what was it?
Which book?
Because I have a few I want tomention too.

Markus (42:08):
But for me, one of the biggest things in psychology
that shifted to me, that made mego oh, that's how life works,
is when you want somebody to dosomething that you want them to
do, do not ask why you need themto do that thing.
Position it as why they shoulddo it as a benefit for them.
As an example I come to you inhere.
You're already tired, you'rejet lagged, you're fucking tired

(42:29):
.
Right, I come in and I'm likeyo, listen, bro, we've got this
party.
Do you wanna come?
Like that's option one.
Right, it's like not reallyconvincing.
And it's like I don't know, Ithink about it.
Option two I come in, I've gotloads of energy.
I'm like yo, darren, we've gotthis party.
It's like, fuck bro, it's oneof the biggest parties in Dubai.
Like you have to come tonight.

(42:49):
And you're like, bro, I'll behonest, like it's jet lag, I'm
tired.
I don't really want to comeanyway, but then you're going to
be two hours late, bro, come on, let's just get dressed, let's
go.
You trust me, you're going towant to come.
And now, all of a sudden, it'sthe same question.

(43:19):
Apart from got, you canextrapolate that, or use that
scenario, or use that example innumerous different scenarios
for your staff members, yourgirl, your parents, your friends
, your business partner, etc.
You always position it as whyit's a benefit for them it's so
funny, right?

Darren (43:33):
because everyone is so interested in themselves they
don't understand that yeahunderstand it right.
It's just that everything islike a first person player game
which it is, but you need tolook at it from perspective of
like how you influence people.
So the why that's so important,that framing is fucking in
sales, because not necessarilyyour own sales, but building a
sales team, because building asales team is like one of the

(43:55):
hardest things you couldpossibly do.
Right, but the way it wasexplained to me was sale.
Getting a sales rep to sell isnot about the commission you
give them.
It's about how you motivatethem, why they should come to
their job.
Because they believe marcus.
They know that marcus is likesomeone who helps them with
their personal goals or personalobjectives.
Marcus's interests are in thesales rep, even though you might

(44:18):
not even fucking know them.
But you need to instill thatbelief in them.
And that's the belief becauseyou get in, you do something
that's really difficult everyday.
That's a big change versus ohman, you'll get $500 for every
sale you make, because the moneyisn't enough to get people
motivated.
You need to literally go deeperinside there.
Have you ever read RobertCialdini Influence Fuck bro Dude

(44:40):
.
You have to listen to thataudio.
Okay, if you, if you, if youthat's like the fucking og for
um, for psychology.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna put upthe points right.
How do you not notice, like, soyou've definitely here, that's
a hold on.
It's called influence,influence by by cialdini.
Okay, there's seven points, sothere is um one second seven

(45:06):
points.
So this is basically.
It's how, like, all sales isdone, right, so you reciprocity.
So reciprocity is I dosomething for you, you do
something for me, so thegoodwill that you make.
So let's say, you createcontent, and the more content I
put out about fucking ofm butpodcasts, I build that

(45:26):
reciprocity so that I don't needto do any more for free.
You'll come and buy my shit,okay.
The other one, then, isscarcity.
As we know, things that arescarce, people will actually go,
will just jump for it, right,so just by virtue of something
being limited and it goes intoall different triggers.
But he did like a huge analysisof it, okay.
Other aspects, then, likeauthority.

(45:47):
So authority is the personwho's in a white coat.
So that's it.
When you're going to, whenyou're going to a doctor, you
see the doctor in a white coat.
That's an element of authority.
You see someone on stage.
It's credibility.
Other aspects of liking becauseyou're a nice guy Social proof.
So social proof is interestingbecause social proof isn't just
a testimonial.
Social proof can be.

(46:08):
So jaywalking is like illegalin Dubai, right, but everyone
jaywalks.
Why?
Because when they're standingthere and the lights are like,
one person will run across thestreet and then everyone will go
with them.
So social proof is actuallymore like herd mentality.
The extreme example was therewas some cult, some like fucking
amish cult in america, and theywere exiled from wherever it

(46:30):
was in america and they went tocentral central america and
people caught on because they'redoing like loads of illegal
stuff, and the leader basicallysaid everyone has to kill
themselves and they're like,okay, fine.
So one person killed themselvesand he, he lied in a row, like
at an angle, and everyone elsekilled themselves and lied in
the exact same angle because ofsocial proof.

(46:52):
And the last aspect is unity.
So people want to be in tribes.
So that's why communities workso well, that's why politics
works so well, that's whyreligion works so well, it's why
sport sports or religion worksreally well.
So yeah, man, you have to readthat book.

Markus (47:07):
I think one of the out of all of them, although it
might seem like the most obviousone or boring, to me, scarcity
is one of the most interestingones about like how.
I think the biggest thing ishow powerful it is, because you
can have the same thing, thesame price point, everything,
and it's available right now andit's been available for the
last four days.
Right, and a hundred people arelike yeah, I like it, but, and

(47:30):
then, as soon as you announcethat it's gone out of those
hundred, there'll be about 20that'll go oh, I fucking need it
.
I'll pay double the price rightnow.
It's insane.

Darren (47:40):
Did you ever hear the story, uh, when I went into the
rolex store in bangkok, no, tellme I feel like such a dumbass
was it something like this?
so I'm in bangkok, right, andlike bangkok can be really
bougie.
There's lots of like reallylike fucking nice, like stores

(48:01):
and shit like proper.
You've like Patek, all theother ones right lined up.
So I see I went to see theRolex store and I was like let's
have a fucking look.
And I see like gold Daytona onit and I'm like this is pretty
nice and I was like, fuck, I'lltry it on.
So she has me trying it on andI'm wearing it and I ask her
about it and I'm like what's thestory, what's the setup with it
?
And she was like it's notavailable.

(48:21):
I'm like what's the story,what's the setup with it?
And she was like it's notavailable.
I was like, okay, it wasfucking kind of rude, but
whatever.
And I was like I kind ofpresumed that.
And then I said okay, that'sfine, um, but is there, can I go
on like a waiting list for someof this?
And she was like no, there isno waiting list and you have to
be local, you have to be basedin Thailand, you have to be like
Thai.
And I was like, look, dude,like I like this watch, can I

(48:42):
just go on some sort of fuckingwaiting list.
And she was like no, you can'tgo on a waiting list.
I was like, okay, if there wasa waiting list, how would the
waiting list look?
And she's like one, you have tobe Thai and two, you'd go on
this list and after four yearsyou will get a call.
And I'm like what does the callmean?

(49:04):
And she's like in four years,when it's available, on that day
you'll get a call.
And if you get the call and youdon't say yes, they will hand
it to the next personimmediately.
And then, at this point, Iobviously want to watch more
than ever.
And I was like Jesus Christ,I'm all ready, I'm 50k and let's
just go for it.
And I'm like okay, it has to bea new way to do this, it has to
be a new way.
And then she said where are youbased?
I said Indonesia.
And she goes okay, you got togo back all the way through the

(49:29):
Indonesian fucking applicationform and start the entire
process again.
And I'd been in there for twohours.
And at that point she was likeokay, this is a watch that you
want.
That's not available.
You're not going to get it infive years.
And when they do call you infive years.
If you don't pick up, it's over.
And I got in there to have alook and it was just because of
scarcity you actually bought itthere and then I couldn't okay,

(49:49):
I thought she was gonna go, ohyeah, good

Markus (49:52):
no, no, no, that was the whole thing was like you can't
have it bro, and then you werelike bro, I now I need this
watch, even though, like twohours ago, didn't even know
existed I literally walked outof it and, uh, walked out of the
place and I rang like my wife'sfather, like he's kind of been
shrewd, it's like wave.

Darren (50:09):
I rang him and I was like when I get a million in
cash in the bank, when it's casha million in the bank, I'm
gonna get one.
And he was like I said the samething too and I was your age
and he's like I never got in theend.
The majority of my guests runcontent businesses.
They've used content as themain element of their business
to drive more revenue and buildtheir influence online.
We've been doing this through apodcast for many years.

(50:29):
We have many guests, clients andeven customers use a podcast as
their main source of drivingmore revenue for their business
and building their influenceonline, and we're offering a
handful of spots to book in acall with our team to learn how
you yes, you can leverage apodcast to generate more revenue
for your business and driveyour influence online.
Many of our clients andcustomers start from nothing,

(50:51):
but each one of them are actiontakers and they want to learn
more about how to build apodcast and a brand right around
their business.
So if you want to learn moreand you're really interested in
building a podcast, check outthe link down below and book in
a free call with our customersuccess manager and he will
guide you into how you can buildand generate more revenue from
your podcast this year, bro, youknow, one of my friends said

(51:16):
this interesting funnel that hedoes.

Markus (51:18):
So they'll do like a webinar or some sort of a live
event and then at the end of thelive event event they'll sell
like a thousand dollar pricepoint of of their info product,
right?
And then what happens is, assoon as the event is done and
let's just say there's 20 peoplethat purchased it for a
thousand dollars every singleone of them get a phone call
instantly from from their team,right, somebody from their team.
They're calling them now andthey're like oh, congratulations

(51:40):
on your investment.
Um, I just wanted to do apersonal onboarding and explain
the next steps that are just.
Before I do that, tell me alittle bit about yourself.
And then a guy's like, yeah,this is who I am, this is what I
do.
And he's like all right, whatare your goals?
Like, where do you want to getto?
And he's like, yeah, like Ireally want to get to this girl.

(52:04):
I want to make this much.
And I was like, yeah, becauseof my parents or this and that.
And then the guy from the teamis like dude, like I'm going to
be honest.
Um, well, this is not even nosales.
I think I'm just going torefund it because you have such
amazing goals that this is noteven the right program for you.
We actually have this thing,which is which is slightly more,
but this will ensure thatyou'll actually achieve those
goals, the things that you justsaid there.
Like, I'll be honest, thisprogram is not going to help you

(52:26):
get there.
So, um, let me just issue arefund right now, like I
apologize for wasting your time.
The guy's like no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no.
What is this now thing thatyou're saying?
And then, all of a sudden,that's how they get a bunch more
sales, right, and this is thewhole point of reverse
psychology and scarcity.
It's like the guy's like bro,I've just barely convinced
myself to buy this and you'reliterally telling me that you

(52:46):
don't want me to go through it.

Darren (52:49):
and, bro, like it's insane I mean I'm dating uh yeah
, here's your handbag, but I'mactually gonna take it back from
you because I think you shoulddeserve that back yeah, oh, it's
insane dude.
Um, have you ever read a gapselling?
You should deserve that back.
Yeah, oh, it's insane dude.
Have you ever read, uh, gapselling?
No, so I've interviewed a guy,his name is keen and he's a
fucking head baller, but he's uh, yeah, he's just a crazy.

(53:10):
You know it's like he's a crazydude, but I got.
The whole thesis around gapselling is that you create a gap
between their current state andfuture state.
You really get really nerdy tob2b book so, like, what's the
numbers, what's how many leads?
You're getting All that kind ofshit.
And then, like you, you createa path, you create a journey and
you see the gap.
But the big caveat to it thatmost people don't understand is

(53:31):
that that's all logic.
It's all a professional logic.
But the question you'd ask isjust like what does all this
mean?
Like where, what does this meanfor your family and your
grandmother who's going intoretirement, and your children?
And you and I've used thatmethod to close one of our
biggest clients we have rightnow for years, for years,

(53:51):
because the guy wanted to be.
So the guy was running thisagency and he's doing whatever
like the only three millennia,but what he wants is actually to
be a world, internationalspeaker.
He wants to speak on stage andbe an authority, so status.
So then, basically, what I wassaying was like okay, you need
the podcast to be able to becomecredible so people see you.

(54:12):
And he was like done, so it wasnothing to do with that, it was
actually the goal of being aspeaker and that's what made him
go.
Oh, that makes no sense, andthat was it, because the whole
logic was like, when things gottough and you had to record more
, it was like, dude, like youneed to do these reps because
people need to see which islarge, which is true, but you've
fucking done it before.
They put you on stage.
And then what was ironic wasnine months later we put him on

(54:34):
a stage in like Athens, and hemade like a shit ton of money
from it, from like a one hourspeech.
And that's the thing is that,like those things do become
reality, but you need to speakthem into existence and then you
, as the seller, needs tounderstand like what's the
driving factor here?
Is it the fucking podcast and ashort-form content clip, or is
it the overarching goal?

Markus (54:54):
yeah, I just think it's super interesting what makes
people tick?
Every single person isdifferent, you know, like the
other thing, so that's one ofthem.
But the other thing is likeparadigms.
And once you start tounderstand that every single
person has certain beliefsbecause of their paradigms and
their paradigms have been builtup against or along their entire
lifetime then you start tounderstand that when they say

(55:15):
certain things and they believein certain things, you shouldn't
look at like you, like you'rewrong, it's just like all right.
I can imagine you probably feelthis way and think this way
because of your experiences inthe last couple of years.
So, for example, if you havebeen going about your entire
life, and you've been goingabout your life and you get hit

(55:36):
by I don't know a red car, andthen you're like, oh, that
fucking sucks.
And then, like a year or twolater, you get hit by another
red car, you're like, right, I'mprobably going to stay away
from red cars.
Red cars are horrible, I'mnever going to buy a red car and
all this stuff.
Obviously it's a stupid example, but the example is that, based
off of your life experiences,you then shape up your belief
and, like some people, theirbeliefs are so, so, so strong

(56:00):
that like they live by it.
And then you see, like I'm notgoing to say, but some people
online with like pink hair andall this stuff, and they're like
no, no, no, no, no, no.
And you ask them it's like so,why do you think this?
I don't want to talk to you.
Like they can't even think forthemselves, Right, it's crazy.
So that's another thing.

(56:20):
I think, another reason why,whenever people say certain
things and they comment certainthings as well, like I'm like
bless your heart, like I get it,I get why.
You'd probably think I, this isnot my lambo, this is not my
watch, this is not my girlfriend.
Like I I get why you wouldprobably think that so I don't
even bother responding.
That's what you don't seepeople like me, me and you, ever
, ever, whenever you see likeIman or somebody like responding

(56:43):
to a comment, I'll be like no,actually dig my car.

Darren (56:47):
Here is my P&L and I actually I noticed that as well,
because I put out a lot offeedback.
I was getting from guests where, like I don't know what your
story is, like people were likeI don't really know what your
story is, and that put me on awhole path of like storytelling
and origin story, which I thinkis really fucking important.
And when I started putting thatout, people were commenting on

(57:07):
my post like guys that I went toschool with, and they were like
, hmm, I remember it differently.
I'm like it was my fuckingexperience, bro.
You were like someone who livedlike 60 miles away from me,
because that's what happens,right, it's a guy that's making
20k a year who's justdisgruntled in his office and
the 24% body fat is like this isnot the way it should be Right.

(57:29):
And that happened more and morewhen people were like seeing
the like successes.
Okay, there was that.
And then there was a few otherthings too, which was, again,
guys I've been friends withwho's became like very
disgruntled or because it's amirror.
Everything is a mirror, youknow.
It's a mirror backwards.
And I had an experience recentlyas well, which I don't give a

(57:49):
shit all about, which is likeyou know, when you were in that
grind phase, that come up phase,of course everyone in your
school thought you were a loser100% everyone and probably
people think you're a loser tothis day because everyone
probably thinks the exact same.
I got a a message from someonewho when I saw the message I
didn't open it and I checkedthat he like followed me on IG
typical litmus test and hedidn't because he obviously had

(58:12):
unfollowed me when he saw mepounding at the podcast content
and stuff.
And then he was asking me for afavor to go to like a fucking
dumb like school reunion or someshit.
To go to like a fucking dumblike school reunion or some shit
.
And I was just like you openlywere probably insulting me and
and like saying I'm a fucking x,y and z and talking around the
table and saying x, y and zabout me, probably saying my

(58:34):
yellow fucking hair is gay,which probably is um, and then
you you come and ask somethingright, right, and it's just like
I think that happens toabsolutely everybody, everybody.

Markus (58:46):
It pisses me off your friends and acquaintances, if
you want to call them.
They'll initially be like comeon, what the fuck are you doing?
Come on, let's just come outdrinking whatever.
Then you really start gettingon their fucking nerves because
you're just working Sure, you'renot successful yet, but you're
just working.
Sure, you're not successful yet, but you're just working.
And then, and then they startchatting shit behind your back
because they can't get to talkto you anymore because maybe

(59:07):
perhaps you cut them off tofocus, etc.
And then and this is where nowit spreads and everyone's
chatting shit behind your backlike, oh, what the fuck is doing
his little podcast?
Like it's just silly, right.
And then, and then you do findsome success.
And then some of them are like,hmm, all right, yeah, like
maybe this guy's onto somethinghere.
And then you do find somesuccess.
And then some of them are like,hmm, all right, yeah, like
maybe this guy's onto somethinghere.
And then you become even moresuccessful.
And then they either arecongratulating you, which is too

(59:29):
late I mean, some of them arelike I appreciate it, but most
of them is too late Uh, or theyask for a job, and it's kind of
like this full circle of likeevery single successful person
that I know that has come fromnothing.
Every single person has gonethrough this.

Darren (59:43):
And the logic is it's like an association bias.
It's like, association rule isa term, which is how much?
People say that they went toschool with Leonardo DiCaprio,
you know, or lived in the samehometown as this famous person,
or whatnot, because they want tobe associated with that.

(01:00:04):
And I'm not saying we'refucking Lear and DiCaprio, but
it's the microcosm example andit's a, again, it's a mirror,
right, because like, and youdidn't cut that person out
because you were like fuck them,you just are so in your own
zone.
And, dude, like I don't knowwhy hermosi gets a lot of shit,

(01:00:25):
because, like, he's just a guythat just does his own stuff,
right, like he has a zerotolerance towards bullshit,
which is why he, like you know,doesn't do like calls and
doesn't do all this stuffbecause he just he just doesn't
have any time for that bollocksI think you should do a podcast
with hermosi this year.

Markus (01:00:39):
You haven't done one yet , right?
No, I've tried a few times thatwould be so good because you
ask some incredible questionsand you really listen to the
person.
You ask deeper questions and Ifeel like with homozy um, what
is that one fitness guy?
He's on like two free podcastswith him.
They're like three hours longeach.
He's got like a buzz cut.

Darren (01:00:56):
Chris williamson yes, yeah, yeah, those are really
good and I feel like you'd asksimilar and better questions
yeah, because, like, I think tosome degree, like I have a lot
of pain from just like mychildhood and stuff and I really
resonate with his stuff becausewe have a very similar
structure in terms of how weview very similar like outlook.
Now I don't know that Iinherent that outlook from him,
whatever, but um, we have asimilar viewpoint.

(01:01:18):
I would put it that way and Ithink that would yield a very
different conversation, right?
Because, because, like I, I do,you know, like one of my good
mates was on earlier.
He was like you know, peoplehave great intentions and I
assume the best.
This person Sometimes I don'tthink that's always true, you
know and I I do think that thereis this weird pendulum
continuously.
Um, I think I'd have a goodpodcast with Ian as well,

(01:01:40):
because I don't give a shitabout this, because I think,
like, um, you know thepodcasters kind of, who get the
most views, it's kind of wetalked about earlier, you're
talking about the same shit,right.
We're just like how do youescape the matrix, right, and
like that's the stuff that thatlike makes me want to get a fork
and pull out my eyes, you know.
I think that's why my podcastwith luke did pretty well luke

(01:02:02):
bellmer, because I think I well,I'm not him, but I think people
weren't expecting someone to belike.
So like, where in the funnel doyou do this?

Markus (01:02:10):
because that's what I'm interested in, right, it's like
the real fucking nerdy stuffyeah, well, at the end of the
day, I feel like what reallypeople care about is one, the
things that they've never heardthis person say before, and then
two just in general, likeactually seeing who that person
is, cause I think that's thewhole point of.
Well, not the whole point, butfor me personally is why I
appreciate listening to certainpeople on podcasts is because

(01:02:32):
it's them, so for most people,their short form.
I even class YouTube 20 minutevideos still technically short
form compared to a podcast,right?
Um, a lot of it is very curated, planned, scripted, edited, etc
.
Whereas a two-hour podcast Imean maybe there's a cut between
the camera angles, but like youcan't fake it for two hours, I

(01:02:54):
mean it'd be pretty fuckingdifficult if you did, and for so
many years, right, and I wasfamiliar with that in the
beginning which is likeeveryone's gonna know do you
really give a fuck about it?

Darren (01:03:03):
And everyone's going to know what the guests and stuff,
and for the most part, I thinklike everyone I interview is
like a nice guy, but like youcan kind of tell not necessarily
smokes and mirrors, but I guessI can tell if someone's really
an operator or not.
You know, if someone's like I'dbe asking someone, I'd be like,
oh, so, like how does thatthing work in the background?
You're like, uh, you know,which is fine, like they could

(01:03:25):
be the front end of the business, you know, but uh, that's not
happened.
A lot, I would say.
But I just think that sometimes, like we talked about, like
earlier, but like authenticity,I think authenticity is like a
terrible word, but, but themeaning of, though, is just
being like very, verycomfortable, right and like in
your own kind of skin.

Markus (01:03:42):
You know that specifically, that.
That point, I think, is what'shappened to me in the last like
two years, but I think it willhappen more and more as the
years progress and as my incomegoes up.
At least personally, I feellike it is correlated to income.
I think it depends on how youmake that income.
So let me just explain right.
So, like for me, one of my mainways to make income is through

(01:04:02):
social media.
So I put myself out there,create videos.
They gain views, I gain leads,I sell them something right.
And then, obviously, the otherbusiness, which is my agency.
Technically, although I dostill get models and clients
from my YouTube.
Technically I don't have to putmyself out there.
But, like I said, the otherbusiness, which is this content,
content side of things.
That is how it brings me a lotof money.

(01:04:24):
And when you don't have thatmuch money and you're comparing
yourself to the likes of emailand etc.
You are almost trying tocompete in your head with them,
in the sense of how you're goingto be perceived.
So then you say and act and docertain things that don't align
with who you actually are.
However, however, which is theinteresting thing, is, the more

(01:04:45):
money you make, the more yourealize, oh, I can just kind of
just be myself and I'll stillget the views.
If anything, I might get moreviews.
And then you're like, okay, whydon't I just be myself a little
bit more?
And then all of a sudden itflips and then you become your
own person and this is where youlike branch out and you dress
like you, talk like you, you dothings like you, and then and

(01:05:05):
then it becomes a lot easier.
But for me and you to say thatnow is easy because we are
relatively successful, like I'msure where me and you want to
get to, we're not successful,but for the grand scheme of
things, me and you, me and youare very successful.
But it's so.
It's easy for us to say thisnow, but me and you four or five
years ago we were that fuckingguy that was like, should I

(01:05:26):
upload this?
Read, read a bad comment.

Darren (01:05:29):
It's like, maybe this guy's right, yeah I don't know,
and I think that one Icompletely agree with you one
variable in that, as well asexperience.
So, the longer you do something, that's why people that are
like 60 years old are just sothey don't give a shit, right,
they walk around because, likethey've just gone through it,
right, like they, they see likethe lines beneath the world and

(01:05:50):
they're able to really deducethat.
And I think, um, I think forpeople that are like listening
this and getting started becauselike this is just a, it's a
fucking great podcast, man, it'slike and it's really fun
because it's like a flow interms of like your actual
experiences.
But I think what's important islike I was that guy that was
trembling over his phone, bro,when I started my podcast.
I had no background in thisshit or anything and I had

(01:06:13):
recorded three podcasts, putthem up.
They were in draft and I waspressing publish and I was like
hovering, like this and I waslike what's my high school
friend going to think about it?
You know what Fucking that guydidn't even get started.
So I was immediately ahead andthat's the mental model I have.
I have two mental models aroundthis, which is one if you start
, you're already 99% ahead ofmost people in the entire world,

(01:06:37):
because they don't even start.
And then also, if you seesomeone who's super successful,
like in Iman, you have torealize that he is a beginner at
99.9% of things that have everexisted in the world.
He's an absolute master at hiscraft, but he could still learn
a shit ton from you.
He probably learned some stufffrom me too, because anyone

(01:06:57):
who's a master, anyone ingeneral, is a beginner at
everything else.
And it's amazing, right, dude,like like I've had conversations
, people and they'd be like sotell me like how I should post
my videos.
I'm like what are you talkingabout?

Markus (01:07:09):
you've taught me how to do it.

Darren (01:07:10):
You've got millions of views and even and even the flip
side, like people being sohelpful.
Like I remember we talked aboutalex earlier.
Uh, my wife runs like a reallybig instagram for our charity,
so it's like a facelessinstagram.
And I remember they weresitting at the kitchen table
together and she and Alex wasteaching my wife about like how
to get more story views is Alexfamously gets like 500,000 story

(01:07:32):
views a day and he was like,yeah, like you positioned this
way and he like drew it out andmapped it out and I was like I
was like bro, you don't need todo this at all.
And he was like I like, he waslike I like teaching, you know,
and it was really niceinteraction Cause what happens
is if you're someone who'scurious, people will actually
like to help you Cause you'relike genuinely interested, and

(01:07:53):
then, like Elise will be like ohyeah, and like now I'm up to
4,000 views on my story andstuff and she proactively thinks
about it.
So you'd be surprised howpeople in the space again, like
you know, hate never comes fromabove.

Markus (01:08:05):
But it's simple, right again.
It's such an easy, simpleconcept to say and you hear this
all the time, but once youactually visualize it and you go
through it like oh right, andthen you just kind of get over
it.
Who cares?
Who actually cares?

Darren (01:08:16):
no, it's not that deep it's a halo effect, right, like
everyone thinks that, uh,everyone's looking at them, or
spotlight effect sorry,spotlight fight everything's.
People are looking at them, butthey're not.
And the halo effect is that youthink this person is amazing at
everything, but they'reactually not they're actually
not a human.

Markus (01:08:31):
They're just another human.

Darren (01:08:31):
You know they don't have a third eye, or a sixth leg or
something.
They're just, they're justfucking human.
You know they just, every oncein a while, go to the fucking
mcdonald's, and that's, that'sthe reality.

Markus (01:08:42):
Like everyone passes mcdonald's, or like I might just
get five hamburgers I mean,it's also the good thing about
podcasts and and vlogs, whereyou see this famous person and
you're like oh wait, they areactually just a normal person as
well so.

Darren (01:08:53):
So what are you thinking next?

Markus (01:08:54):
you're thinking of creating a tool so this inflow,
uh software that I'm talkingabout, which, which is fantastic
, I've actually partnered withthem they do the actual on the
OnlyFans platform.
That's where they shine, right?
That's the only thing they doOff of OnlyFans platform.
They don't help you in any way,shape or form, right.
So don't help me like bookcalls, send emails none of that,

(01:09:15):
it is just on OnlyFans.
So think of it like it's anextension to Shopify in Ecom
language, right?
So what I'm building is anall-in-one tool for off.
So, before you get a client,you need to have a CRM, you need
to have a booking page, youneed to have a website, you need
to have a funnel for onboardingand offboarding, you need to
have email automations.

(01:09:35):
Uh, and those are the five mainones, but the main one being
CRM funnels on a website, right?
So we'll be essentially whitelabeling kind of like go high
level, right.
In an essence, to get people toenvision, like what it would be
like.
We've pre built everything thatI just mentioned.
So you'd have pre built CRMsspecifically for OFM.

(01:09:57):
You'll have three differentpipelines in there.
You have a pre built website.
You'll have three different prebuilt websites and you just get
to pick the one that you likethe look of the most and you
just edit the images and thething you have like three or
four funnels, so like a bookingpage, an onboarding page and so
on and so on.
You'll also have automationsbuilt in within the software.
Meaning, for example, if youlet's just say you have a CRM

(01:10:20):
and you have a client which isbooked in for a call, you just
move that lead over to booked acall and it'll automatically
send them email reminders, textmessage reminders, pre-written.
And then let's just say you've,you've want to close the client
now you want to send them thecontract.
You just simply drag and dropover to the next part of the CRM
and it will automatically sendthem a document that is

(01:10:41):
pre-written already in there andthen, once they sign the
contract, it will automaticallytrigger to move them along into
the next CRM and then send thema welcome email with an
onboarding process andeverything.
So all of the like.
No, not a single agency isdoing this.
I don't think right now.
So most agencies, most agenciesare super unorganized, they
don't know what they're doing,et cetera, and this just solves

(01:11:03):
that in one go.

Darren (01:11:04):
Have you looked into like AI agents?

Markus (01:11:06):
You mean like creating AI creators and like scaling
them.

Darren (01:11:11):
No, like there's a thing that's kind of getting really
trendy in 2025, which is calledAI agents.
So it's basically like anagency.
It's a AI fucking.
I wouldn't say tool.

Markus (01:11:24):
It's an AI like archive of AI bots and they can do
certain things for you.

Darren (01:11:29):
It's like an AI bot yes, that's a good way to put it
that basically can do multitask,okay.
So let's say the prompt is isanalyze this lead, check where
it is in the call booking stage.
Check from the sentiment of thecall, from the transcript did
it close or not?
If it did move it along, if itdid move it along to the

(01:11:52):
contract, issue the contract,send the message in Slack.
It will do multiple differentthings.
So you don't need to set up theautomations, it will
intuitively do that.
So you work on training thatmodel.
So the goal is with these AIagents is that they can do
multiple things.
Speaker 1.
How does that?

Markus (01:12:07):
work Like.
Is it a software that you're?

Darren (01:12:09):
you don't know yet um, well, I think they're building
it into like chat, gpt, they'rebuilding into a few different
things where this is the nextstep whereby they have agency.
Basically that's the whole.
That's the whole.
Idea is like an ai bot willhave agency.
It won't be generative, wherebyyou have to input something to
get something out.
It will have like an authority,so basically it will be like an
operations manager, so thatwill.

(01:12:29):
So the ai agent might say,let's say, in the ofm space
might be like notify the clientin the morning they need to take
their fucking photos.
Notify your team, get yourteam's content checked as the
content team's content workedgood like is it good, do a qa.
And it will have multipledifferent dependencies and
that's like the next wave of aithis year.

Markus (01:12:48):
So the idea is that you can basically run an agency on
your own you know, I feel likeai is genuinely like just a few
steps away from likerevolutionizing everything, like
it truly is, like I knoweveryone says that and I feel
like the only thing which isit's easy to say, but this is
obviously difficult, hence whyit hasn't been done, and it's a

(01:13:09):
very broad thing but it's tohumanize it so, like you can ask
it certain things and it willunderstand it and it will also
even respond in certain like.
You know, you can talk to chatGPT and it will say like um,
like uh, and it'll like stutterand it'll make it sound
human-like.
But like, for example, um, likeAI, the videos that you can

(01:13:34):
create, etc.
A lot of it it doesn'tunderstand.
Like, for example, if you typelike create a short video of a
horse running on a field, itwon't quite understand where the
legs, like which leg goesbehind which one, and then it
creates this weird distraught oflike both of the legs at the
front or some way.
So there's just like it's there.
You can, you can understandit's a horse on a field, but you

(01:13:54):
can see it's ai generated.
You have to learn to work withit, though.

Darren (01:13:57):
That's that's what the problem is yeah.
so, like I think, when it poppedoff in 2022, I used it.
I was like this is fuckingstupid, like as in, it wasn't
good, like the copy was shit,the editing was shit, even the
video clips to this day is shit.
But over the past two yearsit's gotten so good at reading,
specifically copy, that ifyou're a good copywriter and you
know like different elements ofpsychology and copywriting, you

(01:14:19):
can feed that in.
So the big thing that I'm doingright now is like, for all the
copy that we write for ourclients, we're training it on
influence by robert cialdini,cash advertising, a few other
books, and then we train it on afew writing styles from Twitter
and maybe Instagram, and thenit has this brain of like the
top performing people and thetonality, the punchiness, the

(01:14:40):
readability, because I'm alsogood at copy.
So I kind of I'm educating iton the best way to do.
And then I have miniatureprojects.
So a project for me, a projectfor you of how my tonality works
, and then all we need to do isjust literally say here's my
rough outline for my post today.
I want to talk about growing apodcast and break some limiting
beliefs.
Here's some limiting beliefsKeep it punchy, keep it dialed

(01:15:02):
in and it will nail my voice.

Markus (01:15:05):
Fucking nail.
Can I ask, is it where you gointo the settings and you untick
to search online?
If you ask it a said question,it will only be able to search
for the answer based off of theinformation you've had it not
necessarily because I'm notdoing it for search in that
regard, it's just mainly forlike readability and copy.

Darren (01:15:23):
Okay.
But then if I am doing likesearch, I think like it's
getting to the point now wherebyit's like a better version of
google you know, so I saidearlier about how, like I fucked
up my ankle because I'm such aloser.
I literally checked I likelooked on chat gpd and I was
like how much aspirin should Itake?
And I was like this is how muchyou should take, whereas I
would have looked on googlebeforehand.
And the difference is that thecomprehensive answer you get is

(01:15:47):
not only just the answer butit's also a recommendation, yeah
, yeah, it's more.
Yeah, you know I think that's abig thing that we're trying to
look for.
We're using it, which is likethe next step in the idea.
So let me give an example likeyou can fuck in all your sales
transcripts right now and itwill analyze everything and then
give you genuine feedback.
But you have to work on itsaying I have an OFM offer,

(01:16:10):
here's my close rate, here's whyit's not at 80%, it's at 60%.
What's your take on this?
And I'll analyze it.
Bro, I built, like a fucking.
I built a Python script from AIwithout knowing Python.
So what it was was it wasscraping my emails to check my
inbound, to check a sentimentscore of.

(01:16:33):
Was my, was my?
Was their response to my emailpositive, negative or neutral?
And if it's neutral or positive, put it into a certain list,
build that list.
And then I had loads of priceanchoring and all these
different other like weird nerdyshit and it basically was just
a script that kept on running.
So every email that comes inlike dings, dings, dings,

(01:16:55):
bounces around the internet andjust lands and it's like, okay,
this person you should contactbecause they're saying X, y and
Z.
And this is going back fiveyears of my emails and it's just
a script, bro, and bear in mind, like I did engineering in
school and I had no idea howthis was done.
Like no idea, I built it inChatGPT.

Markus (01:17:15):
Bro, do you know?
The reason I'm laughing partlyis one that sounds sick.
But then two, how easy is torun like make money on Lighten
Out.
Like bro, like it's insane Likenone of this was a thing like
five years ago.
Six years ago, covid Okay, yeah, years ago.

Darren (01:17:32):
Six years ago, covid okay, yeah, five, six years yeah
, but like eight years ago butthe way that it is now right
even like, uh, whatever aboutthe fucking scaler bros, it's
the person on the other endbuying it.
That's the biggest thing.
Like buying sentiment haschanged, whereas before it was
like I need to meet you in acoffee shop and I you need to
fly over here, whereas now it'slike, okay, we get on this call.

(01:17:53):
I know it's a call, I know it'sa sales call.
So buying consumption haschanged.
You know, I know it's acoaching program.
I've been in a bunch of thembeforehand, you know so.
They buying habits is different, so that means it's even easier
, bro, you know so.
I think it was funny because,like everyone thinks that, like
these programs are the same andstuff which is actually not,
it's easier to stand out as aresult.

(01:18:13):
What do you?

Markus (01:18:14):
think, yeah, if you, if you just put some thought into
it.
This is why I really appreciatewhat alex is doing.
Alex g, like he's the only onethat I've seen to actually be
different in his marketing, likein his organic marketing.
I don't know about his paid Ihaven't seen any of it but yeah,
his organic is just like, it'sfun, like, and I personally I
don't give a single fuck abouttrading and I don't think I ever

(01:18:37):
will like.
I just can't be bothered,however, and that's all he does,
like his main thing, at leaston social media and I know he
does way more than that, but onhis on his social media thing,
that's his main thing that heoffers.
And even to me, who is not histarget audience okay, maybe I am
, but like I'm me I know I'm notgonna do it right even I'm
interested and so locked intohis story.
He's watching this graph caseyeah, yeah and they're like

(01:19:00):
watching the graphs when I haveno idea what the fuck.
I just see green and red like,yeah, cool, but none of this
he's talking about.
How is the drop down theshoulders and the head?
I'm like, brother, you got sickcars, you gotta.
You got christmas lights onhere's bugatti.
You see how he took him up.
He, bro, just ripped it offlike he's actually hilarious,
shout out, alex, he's actuallysick.

(01:19:21):
I'd love to meet him one dayyeah, oh man, he's so funny dude
.

Darren (01:19:24):
I saw in his fucking uh, it was his lamborghini bugatti
went on fire and he's like he'slike standing at the side of the
street and he's like fuck that,he just walks away.
He's like fuck that car.
I'll get another one, yeah he'slike I'll go figure it out from
here.
But, dude, that's, that's partof storytelling, right?
Which is like you pull peoplein so that someone like you,

(01:19:44):
who's in a complete differentfield or something like me, is
enthralled in the story.
And that's why people andthat's why people are always
like, oh, but like am I in it?
I'm too specific for my niche.
It's like no man, your niche isjust a vessel of how you do it.
But who you are is when peopleattach to you, right, they
attach you for the story I thinkpeople forget about that yeah.

(01:20:04):
So like that's why you can talkabout fucking anything, so you
can be after your niche andafter your, your specialty, but
then you can pull in everyoneelse and that's why you said to
me earlier like I would listento that podcast, and it's like
you didn't need to listen tothat, but you're interested in
the story, right, and I thinkthat's uh, if you know, I know
you said you're interested inpsychology, but you should take
the next step, which isstorytelling.
And uh, if you go really nerdyon storytelling, like that's how

(01:20:29):
people move crowds, bro, it'show it's how nations are moved
what would you say have beenthings that helped you with
storytelling?

Markus (01:20:35):
is it just a natural thing or was it over over
repetition?

Darren (01:20:39):
that's a good question.
So it's you can tell somethingthat's very, very tactical and
very like uh yeah, tactical ortechnique based.
True, your own personalexperience, a story.
So it's a combination of yourown personal experience and
story.
So it's a combination of yourown personal experiences, like
being fat, lazy and broke andalso the transformation that

(01:20:59):
comes with it.
So I can teach something verytactical about that fucking
roadcaster, mike over there, buttell it through the experience
of.
I started my podcast, I wasbroke, I was lazy, I had no idea
what I was doing, and then Ifound this and then I found that
, but then I found this, youknow, and then there's some nice
frameworks you can use, whichis called like and but.
Therefore, so it's like this Istarted a podcast and it sucked,
but I stuck with it.

(01:21:19):
Therefore, I came through theother end and 99% of shows quit.
So that's a simple example.
But like.
That's how all greatstorytelling is done and it's
all based on the outcome.
It's all based on the benefit.
Again, as you said earlier andagain, it's based on the user
right.
That's why Steve Jobs stood upwhen he said a thousand songs in
your pocket versus 26 gigabytesof RAM for the iPod right.

Markus (01:21:42):
Yeah, I think that's also so interesting when it
comes to sales.
It's what are you actuallyselling?
Because the price point is thesame and the deliverables are
the same, but the marketing andthe position of that certain
thing changes massively theconversion.
I think it's such a nerdy thing, but like it is.
So I don't know.
I've just always been fascinatedby all this stuff.
It's funny because, like Tom,when was the last time we drove

(01:22:03):
the Lamborghini?
Yeah, maybe even longer.
I mean like three weeks ago.
Like I haven't driven in such along time and I remember when I
was.
There's a reason why Imentioned this, by the way.
It's because I remember when Iwas like starting out, I was
like when I, I'm gonna makemoney, I'm gonna buy supercars,
I'm driving them around, I'mgonna make money, I'm gonna go
to fucking dinners with hotchicks and all this stuff, and

(01:22:23):
it's like fuck man, I just likethe nerdy shit, like I just like
just like sitting at home andmaking a fuck ton of money.
That's so fun to me as a butlike yeah, obviously the driving
the supercars is fun, but likeit's a pursuit man.

Darren (01:22:37):
Yeah, it's always been the pursuit.

Markus (01:22:38):
Yeah, but you don't realize it when you're in the
trenches and you're juststarting out.

Darren (01:22:53):
It's right.
So like, even like in a fitnesscontext, I've been on like a
heavy gaining phase for a truefour months.
I fucking hate it, especiallyin bali, because, like,
everything's like outside andyou're like wearing a top and
shit, but it's a necessary evil,like to put on more muscle.
You have to go through thosephases and I've started dieting
again, just like past a week ortwo, and I'm like it was worth
it, like I'm not like half aninch bigger, you know, and it's
like it was the pursuit versuslike getting super shredded and
being at the fucking five palmright.
I think that's when you makethe big shift and for me, like

(01:23:16):
bodybuilding was the best wayfor me to think about more the
journey than the actualdestination right.

Markus (01:23:19):
How did you get into that, by the way?

Darren (01:23:20):
bodybuilding uh, I played rugby at a high level
when I was like really young, um, and then I blew out my kneecap
, fucking destroyed my legplaying rugby, uh, dislocated my
kneecap, tore my acl and then Iwas in this huge like forest
gump um, like fucking leg braceand I would.
I went to the gym the next dayso I literally got fucked up

(01:23:43):
like fucking destroyed my leg.
I was in the gym the next daybecause from rugby I enjoyed
this training conditioning themost, but it was kind of like
shit.
It was like dead lifting andfucking.
It was just like, yeah, itwasn't really like proper
strength and conditioning.
But then at 17, the next morningI went into a bodybuilding gym
so it was guys that were gettingready to compete and it was
these fucking killers, bro, theywere just fucking, they were

(01:24:07):
just mental man and I was 17 andeveryone was like 25, 30 and
they were actually on like a, onlike a pro circuit and, um, I
just fucking fell in love withman and it was just like the
numbers on the on the benchnumber, the weight on the scales
, tracking the food, like it wasjust like you want goal, you
track, this metric number goesup and then you get what you.

(01:24:30):
It was literally like you getwhat you want.
You know, I had to put on like15, 20 kilos in like an off
season, and then I lose it down.

Markus (01:24:37):
I get like six percent body fat, seven percent body fat
, and it's just like everythingis numeric, just like a business
, like everything is numeric buthere's the interesting thing
about gym, unlike business, like, gym and business, in my
opinion, have a ton ofcorrelations, but this one thing
isn't, which is in gym, theprogress is quite visible, at
least for the first year and abit if you've never gone before.

(01:24:58):
So whether you're trying to puton muscle or you're trying to
lose fat, for like the firstyear, if you actually try,
you're going to be able to seethe gains you know.
In business, however, you don'tlike.
You feel like you're not, likeyou're putting in the reps.
You're putting in the reps,you're doing outreach.
Doing outreach, cold calls,booking podcasts, doing episodes
.
You know like 20 views, maybe50, 50, 70, 70, 80.

Darren (01:25:22):
It's like fuck is this all worth it?
Right, but it's almostexecution, right.
If you focus on the inputs,then the outcome is under a
variable t which cannot bemanipulated.
You can't manipulate time, butyou can.
You can influence the inputsand then the output then is just
like you know you go, youfeeling tired from the gym, or

(01:25:44):
you're doing 50 cold outreachthat day, or getting seven
responses, but the outcome isinevitable.
You know, like you're talkingabout the software you're
working on right now, that will100% work.
When you work, you have to work.
I think that's what was thebiggest thing for me from sport
was we're from bodybuilding,because in rugby which a team
sport, it was a fucking scam,bro, like everyone be like, oh,

(01:26:05):
well, done, for we all won.
And then when someone loses,like it's that guy's fault, it's
like bro, that's not how teamswork you know, that's
interestingwhereas before that I ran track
like 100 meters, and 100 metersis brutal, man, it's like it's
the most cultural thing ever,which is like it doesn't matter
what color you are, doesn'tmatter how high, how tall you
are, but I want gender.

(01:26:26):
You were, here's the time andhere's how fast you are, and you
can't argue it.
It doesn't matter what the windis, here's how you placed.
If you won, you're the best, ifyou lost, you're a loser.
And the whole logic inathletics is uh, you're always a
loser until you're the winner.
And that was just a really goodlesson that I learned.
That I try to take with a grainof salt now, um, but that put

(01:26:48):
the savage in me because it'sbroad.
There's nothing worse thanlosing, right?

Markus (01:26:52):
right, if you're second, you're just the first to lose
100 and they'd like, imagineeven worse, like.

Darren (01:26:56):
So a big thing that happened to me was I used to
always, uh, get disqualifiedbecause I was like, yeah,
because I might, because I'msmall, the best part of my race
was the beginning.
So if I didn't come out firstI'm fucked.
And a big part of doing that isthat you get dq'd sometimes for
moving too early.
So, bro, I'd fly to Scotlandand get disqualified in East.
So, like, that's what I'mtrying to say.

(01:27:16):
Like, what I'm trying to sayhere is that you know, the
difference between you becomingan absolute loser and a winner
is fucking minuscule you know,tate always says this is like uh
, there's a misconception.

Markus (01:27:29):
Which is like oh, but it's okay as long as you tried
your best.
And it's like it's okay if youfail as long as you tried your
best, which is like it'sbullshit, because if you
actually try your best, youcan't fail.
Like you actually can't.
You can't.
The only way you can fail is ifyou give up.
Right, like I know, thesethings are so common and obvious
, but like I don't know, I feellike people need to be reminded

(01:27:50):
about these things because thereis no profound like what's the
quickest way?
How did you do it overnight?
Like bruv, you can go back onmy YouTube, your YouTube, scroll
down there.
That's the answer.

Darren (01:28:03):
And it's a small thing, right.
That's why I talked about alsowith the microphones, because I
use like my old mic and then Iuse I use my laptop camera and
then I use my iPhone and I stuckmy iPhone to the wall, then I
got a webcam, then I got myfirst Sony camera and those
small incremental changes didn'tlead to more views, but they
just led to slight improvements.
And then you actually speak toyourself at a higher level then

(01:28:25):
and you accept no bullshit,which is why Hermosi does right.
Hermosi doesn't accept someonespeaking poorly at them.
You just cut them out, you know, and you set that new standard
for yourself.
So then, when a client'slooking for a refund or a
discount, you're like this isthe bear I've set for myself, um
, and the hopefully, the goal isyou just continue to move up
that ladder and you learn thesethings over time and from

(01:28:47):
failures, or you buy some ofthese course exactly, yeah, you
know like, all jokes aside, thatis literally the whole fucking
point.

Markus (01:28:55):
But I feel like the course scene is such a meme
nowadays like I think it's justfunny.

Darren (01:28:59):
So I think will brown put a spin on that though in?

Markus (01:29:03):
in what way?

Darren (01:29:04):
like will brown, kind of showed up like, oh, you know,
it's more like selling your edge, selling your knowledge.
You put a really nice spin onit and it was like you're
selling education and you'regiving people like an education
platform for them to speed upthe results.
So I think, like he reallychanges the branding and
positioning, like he really waslike yeah, he really turned a

(01:29:25):
fucking corner for a lot ofpeople, right, because I agree
with you like the course,mentality and reputation was
getting worse and worse, whereashe was like no, no, no, it's
actually more your education ormore more your knowledge, and
you were just selling being aspecialist and ofm or podcasting
or whatnot you know, I feellike in the next coming years,
starting with this year it kindof started already with back end

(01:29:46):
of last year I I don't know ifyou noticed it I feel like
everything is now going moreinto giving away the information
but selling either a softwareor a tool that will help you get
there, or the implementation.

Markus (01:29:59):
So, for example, I don't know if you've noticed, but if
you go on YouTube, you can finda YouTube course on anything
like anything.
People have taken their entirecourse that they were selling,
put it together into like aneight hour long youtube video
and uploaded it for free, butthen what they sell is either a
software to use within thisthing and a bunch of affiliates
or, um, yeah, like a community,or the or okay, you've learned

(01:30:23):
how to do it.
Do you want me to do it for you?

Darren (01:30:24):
it was.
It was a jordan brown did thatfor ecom.
Jordan Brown, something Brown,really big Ecom guy.
Serge Guterri does that alwayswith his release and building
release offers.
We're actually doing one for aclient at the moment which is
going to be a sales training.

Markus (01:30:39):
It's going to be like a five hour sales training and
then that's enough for you to dowhat you want, and then that
video will gain tens ofthousands of views over the
coming months, completelypassive.

Darren (01:30:49):
And it's just a book, a call funnel, yeah.

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#287 Markus Hussle - The Harsh Truth About Making Millions in Your 20s

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#287 Markus Hussle - The Harsh Truth About Making Millions in Your 20s