#291 Taki Moore - How to Build a $1M Coaching Business Without Sales Calls or Funnels - Kickoff Sessions

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Even before we killed the sales calls altogether, we
used to have a sales team ofnine and now there's zero people
.
If you only sell the way thatyour prospects are used to
buying like, there's anadvantage in that for sure, but
in the end you want to build abusiness that's right for you,
not the business that's rightfor somebody else.
Often things don't go wrong onthe sales call.
They go wrong with how thesales call was set up in the

(00:22):
first place.
We've been talking about callsand chat.
There's definitely an optionthree, which is Are sales calls
dead in 2025?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, taki Moore thinks so, and he's got the
receipts.
After firing his entire salesteam, taki replaced phone calls
with Google Docs and built a 37million coaching empire using a
completely different playbook.
In this episode, we break downhow he sells high-ticket
programs with zero calls, whymarketing, not sales, is a real
growth engine, and how his magicmodel has helped hundreds of

(00:50):
coaches scale without funnels,burnout or complexity.
If you want to build a coachingbusiness that prints cash
without chasing leads or livingin your DMs, this episode is for
you.
Where I want to start is whatwas the real driver or what was
the indicator that you couldmove from sales calls to sell by
chat?

Speaker 1 (01:10):
A couple of things.
So even before we killed thesales calls altogether, we used
to have a sales team of nine andnow there's zero people.
But way before that, like 10years ago, way before that, 15
years ago, way before that 10years ago, way before that, 15
years ago, way before that, wewere using chat.
I'd seen a friend of mine likevery few of these ideas are like

(01:32):
brand new, they're likecollected.
I like this from here and Ilike that from here and if I
combine them like this, it turnsinto a thing.
Uh, so a guy I knew way backwhen I first got started was a
dude called Ari Galper who putlive chat software on his
website and his team would justsit there and like have
conversations with people.
And I kind of got to see thatthis ping pong backwards and

(01:55):
forwards could get someone whowas like on the fence to like
add to cart and buy a thing.
So I'd seen that.
And then many years ago, I sawDean Jackson talk about email
dialogue.
He was doing this thing withreal estate agents and he showed
me a conversation threadbackwards and forwards by email

(02:16):
with someone who was thinkingabout buying a house, and it was
over a few weeks.
But it was like, hey, you'restill thinking about buying a
house in a certain location,yeah, and they just went and
right through to visit the houseand pay the money.
And I was like this isincredible.
And so I did it on email waybefore I did it on Messenger,
and then Instagram, so that'swhere the thing came.

(02:39):
So, sell by Chat we've beendoing it for a long ass time.
The mistake I made was I hadthis belief that you could only
sell something by chat if it wasless than two thousand dollars.
It's like one of those bullshitrules that we make up in our
head.
That sounds, you know, soundsright, because I hadn't seen it
done.
And then one of our clients had, uh, two products, a cheap

(03:00):
thing and an expensive thing,and the cheap thing was sold by
vas on chat and the.
And if there was leads for thebig thing, they'd, like you know
, book an appointment with thesales team for the big thing.
And the sales guys got reallyupset because the chat guys kept
selling the 36 000 big thing bychat and skipping them.
It's like, holy crap, I didn'tknow that wasn't even so.

(03:20):
That just like shifted my ideaabout what was possible.
And then I just had this.
You know heaviness about how tosales team and they were
self-managing, but I just feltlike they worked really, really
hard for the results that wewere getting or not getting.

(03:41):
And I think about the way I buy,like you're the content guy,
like I discover, discoversomething, or that the for me
page find something for me, andand I that's interesting I go
down the rabbit hole and thenI'm just looking for like
there's got to be something Ican purchase here and most
people on their website or ontheir website will just have
like the, the entry level thingand and the gateway to get to
the big thing is a call.
And there's been a couple oftimes just in the last year

(04:06):
where I've seen the cheap thingbut found a way to get the
founder's phone number or emailor WhatsApp and just go hey, I
see this thing, but I want thebest thing you've got.
How do I buy that?
Or you can't?
Well, I have to, and so justrealizing that you don't have to
, it doesn't have to be salescalls, it doesn't have to be
sales calls and it doesn't haveto be the traditional funnel.

(04:27):
We can go straight.
The best people just want thebest thing, and they're mostly
interested in speed.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
It's so interesting to observe, right, because if
you're adding into friction,that's almost getting people to
turn off from you completely, ifyou truly just want the thing.
And I'm reminding you of asoftware that I was getting for
a company recently, but two,three months ago, and I'd used a
free version or like the $49version and it was great.
It was fantastic and I reallyenjoyed it and the UI was great

(04:55):
and I wanted to buy theenterprise software.
Just enterprise just meansanyone more than four people,
and I was, for the most part,ready to do it, but I had to
book a call.
And I was like, oh, and I was,for the most part, ready to do
it, but I had to book a call.
And I was like, oh, fuck sake.
And then I hopped on a call andthere was a 19 year old closer
in Canggu and this guy was liketrying to like basically tell me
that like I was like a badperson if I wasn't doing it,
like he was kind of putting mein a position that I was like a

(05:16):
bad person and the software wasactually 10k it was 10k for the
year and I just I always thinkabout it.
If I didn't go through thatprocess, I would have bought it.
Of course.
Yeah, they unsold you.
Yes, exactly.
But then sometimes I think thenin like the opposite lens being
like if I looked at it and itwas 10k and it was a shown to me
, would I you know shit, mypants lose my mind, to quote

(05:37):
Anton Creole and then just sayI'm not going to do anything.
So how do you kind of find likethat balance right, because
there's some people that arelike, oh, I only talk to someone
like you know chat, you know achat bot.
People are like I just need thelive agent.
But then there's some peoplelike you and me that are like I
just want to see the buy button.
So how do you think about thatproblem?
Just want to take one quickbreak to ask you one question

(05:57):
have you been enjoying theseepisodes have?
I'd really appreciate if yousubscribe to the channel so that
more people can see theseepisodes and be influenced to
build an online business thisyear thank you.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
So I think we make two big mistakes.
Uh, you know, as I'm going tosay, coaches, that's my world.
But most people either go theyassume it yeah, we assume
everyone's hot and we like hard,close or we assume everyone's
not and we like nurture and wego softly, softly, softly.
And the mistake is that.
You know, the mistake is thateveryone's this or everyone's
that.
The truth is that there's awhole spectrum.

(06:29):
So I think, at very minimum, weshould put a fast mode option
for the people who are readyright now and like give the
people who are ready right now achance to do what they actually
want.
And all of the steps in yourfunnel are just frictions,
friction points which the way?
And then you've got the.
You know they're the now buyers, and then you've got the later
buyers.
And the later buyers do need,you know, more education, more

(06:52):
reassurance, more whatever, or adifferent style of sales
process.
But let's not let the beliefthat everyone's not ready slow
the people who are ready andwould have bought it yesterday
if they could.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
So, if you think about it, if take a step back
for that as well.
So in the coaching space, itmeans it's very logical, right?
It's like, okay, I've seen Paki, I know you talk about XYZ.
There's an attraction piece,there's this piece.
We have a mini conversation.
Do you think this expands tonearly all industries and all
platforms?
You talked about it.
You talked about email, right,and it's funny because for our

(07:26):
sponsorships you'll find it'sinteresting we sell sponsorships
on behalf of podcasts and we'veactually done $200,000 in a
transaction.
That was actually true email.
Now, beforehand there was somepre-faming and everything right,
but email in that regard workswell.
And then when some people comeinto our ecosystem, they're like

(07:48):
is that all on email?
I'm like, yes, so I like tokind of how do you think about
that?
Because one thing that I wasworking on one of our clients
during the week was I'd love toget your opinion on this is
buying consumption and buyingpatterns of people.
Let me give you an example.
One of our clients has a luxuryreal estate SEO business agency
based in America.
Luxury real estate agents are,for the most part, they click on
a website and then they see abook, a call funnel, and they're

(08:10):
so used to dialing that theywant to dial.
So this guy books a shit ton ofcalls off his VSL and then he's
kind of suggesting like, ohokay, that's there.
Can I also do sell by chat onLinkedIn?
How would you think about thatproblem?
Right, because, like, let's say, buying consumption of the user
.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah.
So the first thing I want tosay is that we've been talking
about calls and chat and there'san option, I'm sure there's
like an option seven, butthere's definitely an option
three, which is neither, whichis like us right now.
There's like there's no calls,there's nobody.
I can't do calls because Idon't have a sales team.

(08:52):
I'm very happy about it.
I can't do chat because I don'thave a sales team very happy
about it.
And so now it's just like mediato a vsl and an offer and
that's like the dream becauseit's like fully hands-off.
Um.
So for your seo person is thatI understood the context, but is
the question can they do chaton linkedin or is the question
something else?

Speaker 2 (09:09):
the question is kind of how do you approach people's
regular buying consumptions?
Like if people are buying avery expensive like seo service
and they're used to gettingpeople on a call and they're
used to that buying consumption,that buying pattern, how would
you, how would you break that?
How do you overcome that toyour prospect who's like, oh,
I'm ready to go, but let's hopon a call and you're like, no,

(09:30):
no, I don't do that.
How do you approach that?

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, so sometimes we'll get a.
Hey, can we jump on a call?
And the short answer is no,obviously we're nice about it.
I think that this is maybecounterintuitive, but if you
only sell the way that yourprospects are used to buying,
like, there's an advantage inthat for sure.
But in the end you want tobuild a business that's right

(09:54):
for you, not the business that'sright for somebody else, and so
I think there's I'm sure you'vehad interactions with
businesses that have weird rules, but you kind of respect that
about them.
But there's this Italianrestaurant we used to go to
called Bar Italia in Sydney andthere's like no credit cards, no

(10:15):
decaf, no split orders.
It's just like you go there andthere are all the Italian guys
and that's how it runs, andyou're like well, this is just
the rules here, and I fuckinglove that.
I think like there's not enoughbusinesses to have these are
the rules here.
And so when we made the, youknow we've had a few evolutions
and now I don't need to convincepeople why they don't need a

(10:37):
call, but I think you can use itas an advantage, which is you
don't even need to.
You know you don't need aScammies house call, you can
just click and read all thedetails and if it's for you, off
you go, and if it's not, you'llknow in 12 seconds.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
It's an advantage and I think what's interesting
again this is what I've learnedfrom James is the market has
adapted towards likeunderstanding what coaching is.
You know they understand thatthere's a coaching process.
They understand there's aschool community.
They understand that there'straining material.
So people from your one of yourreels, you know people know
what a trap is right when a whena call, a free call, is
disguised as a discovery nobodythinks it's really a free

(11:12):
coaching session anymore.
Maybe in the old, maybe in 1952,but not anymore so how do you
think the market has adjustedmarket levels of awareness of
coaching so that they've seenthe sophistication of funnels
and processes and tripwires andso on?
What have you observed quiterecently?

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Well, I think number one, unless they're brand, brand
, brand new into it.
We're in a market that's verysophisticated and one of the
advantages is, a not doing whateveryone else does and b kind of
poking fun at the traditionalway.
Oh, this is this page, is mytripwire?
This is where I'm going to getyou to spend three dollars to

(11:53):
get something useful so I caninvite you to do something else
later, like that'sprofessionally honest um.
Best marketing movie of alltime is called crazy people.
I think it's peter cook ordudley moore.
It's freaking old, but the um.
There's this guy who writesadvertisements for a living
mostly billboards and newspaperand print stuff and he just gets
sick of lying to people and sohe writes it.

(12:14):
Finally he's asked ready.
He writes like a bunch of likesuper honest campaigns.
Like there's an ad for volvosand it's like buy boxy, uh, buy
volvos.
They're boxy but they're good.
And and like it's just buyVolvos they're boxy but they're
good.
And like it's just honest,right One for cigarettes.
It's like shouldn't somethingthat might give you cancer
actually deliver real flavor?
Amalfi, super Thins, pulmonarycancer, perhaps, flavor for sure

(12:36):
.
There's something that's magicabout being open and honest and
real with people that it's sorefreshingly direct of bullshit
that I think people justresonate with.
And I think when you're in asophisticated market, either
you've got to get cleverer andcleverer and cleverer and
cleverer, or you just go theexact opposite direction.
You and I were chatting beforewe started recording about Rory
Sutherland.
You do the exact opposite andyou just explain to people in

(13:00):
plain English, like I'm notgoing to insult your
intelligence, I'm not going tomake you jump through some
seven-step funnel or da-da-da-da.
You're going to tell you how itis and if it's for you, you do
it.
And people are like oh, thatfeels amazing.
And then guess what?

Speaker 2 (13:13):
They're more likely to say yes, because you're the
dude who's been honest.
I wanted to pull up the exampleof did you see the watch that
was on a bill watch and it saysknow the time without seeing,
you have 1,249 unanswered emails.
It's just like it cuts throughthe noise.
I think that's where, like youknow, the best coaches, the best
entrepreneurs, they kind ofrise through the top because
they're able to find that uniqueangle and unique mechanism as a

(13:36):
result from there.
One thing that I really loveabout your work as well you
mentioned around like salescalls or no, I say sales calls.
Sales problems are oftenmarketing problems and looking
at, like the navajo quote, um,and I saw dan henry talk about
this too as well um, why is that?

Speaker 1 (13:54):
well, almost every problem can be solved, um with
like emergency trauma surgeryright now.
Or you could go upstream alittle bit and figure out what
went wrong in the first place.
And so this is the differencebetween like trying to reframe a
problem that's happened andjust trying to pre-frame it
early.
You can like one of thoselittle eye droppers.
One drop of pre-frame is worth,you know, a massive like tub of

(14:17):
reframe.
And so often things don't gowrong on the sales call, they go
wrong with how the sales callwas set up in the first place.
And so Cialdini wrote a bookcalled Persuasion.
It's like persuasion, it's whatdo we do?
Before I got great at marketingbecause I was shit scared of
selling, like just terrified ofit.

(14:38):
I had probably a bunch of moneyhangups.
I was certainly terrified ofasking for money.
I was scared of rejection.
And I was like when I first gotstarted I was like if I can get
good at marketing, then saleswill be easy.
It may be even unnecessary.
I'm not scared of selling rightnow, I'm very happy to do it.
But I just know that if you getthe marketing piece right, the
sales is easy.
And so there's a lot of peoplelike talking about selling by

(14:59):
docs right now and it'sfantastic.
We love our offer in the doc.
It's fantastic, and the personI know who sells the most by doc
has the worst doc I think I'veever seen in my life.
But why does it work?
Well, it works because thedudes built an incredible brand,
and I don't mean a logo, I meanan incredible following, super

(15:20):
consistent, amazing content, ahuge following.
And so the offer doesn't haveto be good, because people
already know that I get to workwith this guy and it's going to
be amazing, and so the problemis almost always upstream.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
That's amazing.
So let's look at that from apositioning perspective, right?
So the marketing has to bedialed in.
Let's use our friends Owen andLeah's example.
If they're helping barbers bookmore calls and increase their
revenue and decrease their costsin their barbershop, so they're
running a barbershop, a brickand mortar store the positioning
of that how would you take thatexample so that they can
pre-sell people and then ensurethat every type of conversation

(15:56):
or eyeballs on their offer docis aligned to is hard.
Yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
So part of it is about where this fits in process
.
So if you just go ifmarketing's job, if there's a
spectrum, but from like one toten, in terms of how likely
somebody is to sign up and giveyou money, like you know, these
guys are cold, these guys arewarm, these guys are hot.
Um, if marketing, if we try tosell when someone's a one, two
or three, it's going to be hardwork and it's going to and it's

(16:25):
going to feel like you'repushing and they'll push back
and we triggered that.
So it almost doesn't matterwhat the.
I think it's less about whattheir messaging is, although
it's important.
I just think it's about thenumber of minutes of you that
they consume before they are onthat sales mechanism.

(16:46):
So I had this client calledSharan, super good guy in the
real estate space, and he gothis head of marketing to like
review all of the stats of allthe people who bought a course,
a coaching program, a product inthe last two years.
So I go okay, let's see if wecan figure out what the
commonalities are so we can domore of that.
And so dude goes away, does allthe research.
And it's not the demographics,it's not the ads, it's not the

(17:07):
funnels.
They're all like there'snothing there that stands out as
like that's the thing.
So the only thing I can seethat they've all got in common
is every single one of thepeople who bought consumed at
least 47 minutes of our stuff.
So that's interesting.
And some of them consumed it ina day, like found you and
binged, and some of them waslike weeks or months or years.
So it's like okay, well, let'ssee if that's a thing.

(17:29):
And so they split test.
You have the same lead magnet,same ad, same everything.
They split test.
So group A, group B.
Group A goes through the exactsame funnel as they always have.
You know the normal like newlead sequence thing.
And group B they just took abunch of their existing assets.
So some short form bids, somelong form bids, some email, some
podcast episodes compressedinto like this 30 day window.

(17:52):
They weren't super strategicabout it, but the whole goal was
like how do we get everyone onthe list to consume 47 minutes
of our stuff quickly?
And if we could speed it up,can we increase the buyers?
It's like simple test, reallyfun.
So they ran this thing for 30days and at the end of 30 days,
group B bought twice as often asgroup A and the conversion rate

(18:14):
on sales calls was 40% higher.
And the only metric theychanged was time on brand.
I used to think that it wasabout how long someone's on your
list.
That's not.
Time on your list is just aproxy for how much time do they
spend on your brand.
We call it brand width.
It's just the number of minutessomeone spends in your world,
and so I think, if I'm Lee orI'm anyone else, the core goal

(18:35):
is how do I get people immersedinto my world?
Binging, because if they binge,they'll buy.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's funny, can you walk me true to 47 minutes?

Speaker 1 (18:47):
versus the seven hour principle.
Where did you land on 47minutes?
I think they're both arbitrarynumbers?
I don't think everyone just madeit up.
No well, google did researchand for them it was seven hours
across, 11 touch points and fourwhatever it was channels, and
in sharon's number was 47 thethe fact that there's not a
number, that's the number.
The idea of both of those iscompletely correct.

(19:08):
For Sharan it was 47 minutes,but maybe Sharan's just better
at whoever the average thatGoogle was researching.
I don't know, but thisfundamentally shifted the way
that we've been thinking aboutmarketing and selling.

(19:29):
The old us, a year or so ago,looked like this If you think
about sales and marketing, wewere like salespeople working
really, really hard.
You're having to, like you know, squeeze every drop of juice
out of every lead and like workevery deal and do all the
follow-ups and all that stuff.

(19:49):
Why?
Well, because the marketingwasn't doing its job, and so if
that was let's just make alittle line here If that was us,
then you know, we know that thebetter the marketing is, the
less sales you have to do.
And so now we've gone likewe're all the way down here
where there's marketing iscrushing right now.
We've been closed for the lastthree weeks like door's shut.

(20:14):
Somehow 12 people bought a$30,000 program and I don't even
know where they found the link.
Because marketing's dude, it'smental Marketing's.
Because marketing's workingSales, it's mental Marketing's
because marketing's workingsales is like when marketing is
good.
Sales is easy, sometimesunnecessary.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Let's double tap on the, on the follow through into
conversion.
So marketing's dialed in.
And I've seen you.
I've seen you pounding YouTubeagain, so that's awesome to see
as well.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Just increasing volume.
Yeah, we just got volume likeeight weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's going great and and also the way that you're
putting the videos to are veryaligned.
The alignment is very strong.
How do we move them from justmarketing sitting on the
sidelines into purchasing,because we don't want to do
heavy ctas and, you know,looking for five more people
vibe every single day.
Um, how do we?
How do we?
How do you do that?
How did you do that?

Speaker 1 (21:04):
okay, so the mistake people make is they think about
the podcast or the youtube asthe podcast or the youtube.
They don't see it as like apart of a journey and the
missing thing, like what are thefundamentals?
We need a great product, ofcourse, to get people to say yes
to the great product.
We need a great offer, ofcourse, to get people to see the

(21:26):
great offer.
We usually got great content,but what people miss are the
bridges, and the bridges don'thave to be super sophisticated,
as I'm doing this morning withthis, uh, with our clients.
There's a great guy calledchristian and he's been leaning
into brand with since he heardme talk about it a year ago and
and so he's got.
You know it's not a massivechannel but you know there's
like a few thousand watches amonth or a week or whatever.

(21:49):
So it's going good for a guywho's like getting started.
He's like so yeah, I'm gettingall these listeners on my
podcast and all these views onYouTube.
Lots of really, really goodfeedback.
It's not translating intobuyers.
I'm like that's interesting.
Let, lots of really really goodfeedback.
It's not translating intobuyers.
I'm like that's interesting.
Let's bring up your YouTube.
So we bring it up on the screenand I just look at a few of his
things and they're great, butthere's no bridge, like nowhere

(22:10):
does it say hey, if you likethis, you'll love that.
I mean, it's verystraightforward.
So you just want to think aboutwhat the bridges are and in,
you just want to think aboutwhat the bridges are and in our
world, each of our youtubevideos will have uh, most of
them will have like two nextsteps, two invitations people
can take.
One is for a content upgradewhich is like hey, I've loved

(22:33):
this.
If you love this content, webuilt this tool to help you
implement it faster.
Uh, more recently, they arecustom gpts that were built to
help and so we, you know, we addto email list there and so
that's a bridge into, yeah,email.

(22:54):
There's some clever little CTAsin the GPT, but that's, that's,
that's conversation.
They do really well.
But the core CTA for us is like, if you think about, there's
people consuming content andthere's people looking at an
offer, whether it's on a callfor us, it's in a, it's in a doc
, there's this VSL that we, youknow, that I shot which is kind

(23:17):
of explains hey, if we're goingto work together, this is what
we'd work on and this is how itworks.
These are some people who havedone it, and so it's like here
are the problems you've got,here's the promise that we make,
here's the process that we gothrough and here's a bunch of
proof.
And so the bridge for us is, ifpeople have been watching video
, chances are you know a videois probably a good cta, a good
next action, and that that umsets up that.

(23:40):
Okay, now I know about theprogram and I can read the offer
if I want to it's funny becauseyou know ideally well.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Ironically, in the beginning of our program it was
with content and the biggestthing was like we didn't want
people to be just creators, likewe're not making jake balls,
right, that's.
That wasn't an idea of ourthing it was for business owners
.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
So the biggest thing is who makes content, not a
content owner who's trying to.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
He doesn't have a business exactly, and I I call
it like the um.
It's like the ligament in yourknee right, the ligament in your
knee that connects like the topof your leg and bottom of your
leg.
There has to be like a bridge,there has to be like an island
between this connective tissuethat's actually the term that I
use and what's ironic here islike I have found a lot of
people get caught in like theone the content world.

(24:20):
So the content, I'm just goingto create more content and that
will do things.
Or the offer procrastinationworld, which is like next step,
which is like I'm justrefiningining my doc and
refining my landing page andrefining my notion doc.
Like how, how have you seen,like the power of when people
just like run more offers?
Now let me give you an example.
I had a mastermind.
James was speaking to one of ourclients and the guy basically

(24:41):
just his.
The answer to all of hisproblems was like he just needs
to honestly give more offers topeople because he's getting so
much inbound.
He's not actually just beinglike, hey, we have this $1,000
product or $5,000 product, doyou want it?
And James's suggestion was likeyou could literally do it 50 to
100 times a day because he wasgetting so much inbound that was
coming.
How have you thought about that, when people kind of sit in

(25:02):
like offer procrastination land,and how do we get them to just
really execute to get results,because you've had some amazing
results right?

Speaker 1 (25:09):
yeah, some mental things, um.
So the people who this is thechallenge of being smart is the
smarter you are, the more youthink being smart is the answer
and you overthink things.
Some of my most successfulclients not all of them, I've
got a bunch of really smart,successful clients, but I just
want to be, I just want to notdiss my best clients here.

(25:31):
You guys are really smart, um,but there's a magic power in
doing the stuff and so, uh, Idon't know how an individual
does it.
I'll tell you how I think aboutit for me, and I'll tell you
first about what we do withclients.
So if we're teaching a, let'sjust say we're doing something

(25:51):
kind of lead gen offer-ish withour clients.
So the steps are quick teach,here's what it is, here's the
template, and then we get themto apply the template and then
together we tweak it.
So it's like teach, template,tweak, and then we have this
magic tool called a three minutetimer that comes up on the

(26:15):
screen and their job is to postit now or send it now or shoot
it now, and there's nothing likeclear instructions.
Are you confident about it?
You've showed it to somebodyand they've gone.
Yep, that's good.
Tweak this and then publicpressure to do it now and the
first time people, this happenslike the very first session with
us on the kickoff call.
They'll have an offer outbefore the call's done and

(26:37):
they'll have leads before thecall's done and the moment they
have it, like this dude expectsme to do it.
I'm like you're officially inblack belt the moment you hit
send on this thing.
Until then, you're justsomebody on my Zoom and so we
just build an environment.
So, like one of my roles, oneof the hats I wear on a Friday

(27:00):
on Zoom with my clients issometimes I'm teacher, often I'm
group bootcamp instructor.
So, like you go to a fitnessclass, it's not like 75 minutes
on the biomechanics of push-ups,it's like, okay, we're gonna do
push-ups, this is what apush-up looks like.
Show me one great, now do 10,and that's my job that's super

(27:22):
interesting.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
It just breaks down all of that.
I need like thinking about itin their top in their brain,
right?
I think that was.
I think that was one of thereasons why I could do anything
in my life, which is I didn'thave time to be like I'm just
going to think about this, youknow that's the magic of, that's
the magic of a clock.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Right, it's like oh shit, it's going, this is real,
I need to run, and so if we canmove faster than your excuses
can overthink it, we're in goodshape.
I think the uh, if you've got atendency and you don't, but
someone watching or listeningmight if you've got a tendency
to kind of overthink, uh,something I I learned from Dan

(28:01):
Sullivan, a strategic coach, wasreally useful and he said um,
if you work let's say you, youwork really hard on something
for a month uh, you do, you putyour best work into it.
When you look back on it later,you're probably like you know.
It's say you work really hardon something for a month, you
put your best work into it.
When you look back on it later,you're probably like you know,
it's about 80% good.
It's not perfect, it's about80%.
If you get the first draft donefast, in like five minutes or

(28:22):
an hour or whatever, dependingon the size of the job.
Looking back on it, it'sprobably 80% good.
So the only difference is likehow quick can you get the first
80% out?
And the thing that like freesyour mind about it is we just
tell clients hey, we're notgoing for perfect here.
Perfect is the enemy of done.
We're after a shitty firstdraft, and when you send a

(28:44):
shitty first draft whether it'san offer, it's a poster, it's a
whatever or a you know directone-on-one message you're going
to get two things.
You're either going-on-onemessage.
You're going to get two things.
You're either going to get agreat result or you're going to
get great feedback thatsomething was off.
Either way is perfect, eitherway you win, and so we just
reframe that.
There's no bad here.
You either win or you getsomething that makes the next
one even better, and that's thegame.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
And, ironically, a lot of those iterations are some
of your best work.
Ironically, that's the one thatgets the most results.
You know, you just a quickemail that's like oh, like we're
running this offer, you get,you get your hand raisers,
versus like procrastinating overand over again.
And, uh, I even think aboutlike if you're running a
challenge, or even like ourmastermind and so on, like, yes,
we have, we had an offer, doc,for a mastermind.

(29:24):
It's for context.
I literally put it on my story.
We're thinking like, oh, what'sthe marketing campaign, what's
the marketing campaign?
And then the logic was I'mgoing to put it on my story.
See, who wants to come to Bali?
I will send them a doc and theguys that want to come will come
.
And then afterwards I waschatting with one of my mates
and he said well, you could havea VSL and then you could do it
on a landing page sold out fourweeks.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, by then it was already done.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, and that was a funny part, right.
It's like is there a better wayto do this?
Yes, yes, probably, but doesthat really matter?
No, because what are we?
We're not optimizing for ahundred percent, we're not
optimizing for better.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
We're optimizing for yeah, leads clients money.
There's this that hard.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
And that's.
It goes back to that meme.
You know what I mean?
The bell curve and like Iliterally always show up, people
were just like on the left,it's just make good content,
sell simple stuff.
On the right, make good content, sell simple stuff.
And in the middle you have likeGHL GHL Zapier Klaviyo, one of
my best mates I was looking atlike her P&L.

(30:39):
We were very, very close.
I was looking at her P&L and Iwas looking at Klaviyo and
Klaviyo was like thousands ofdollars a month.
And I was like what are youdoing on that?
Why don't you just send theemail from like ConvertKit for
$30 a month?
And no one was like, oh, like Iwas recommended to do this and
I was like, look that,ironically, that one payment was

(31:01):
worth more than our entire OpExin our media company and in our
education business, and bear inmind, we have like 10 to 12
full-time people, right?
So crazy, crazy, crazy.
Okay, so one thing that youknow, I love like the simplicity
of your model and like howelegant it is and it really

(31:22):
feeds into like who you are as aperson and how you want to show
up for who you are and so on,and the way that you like are
optimizing for like freedom,lifestyle, but you also have
like that amazing offer and soon.
My question is how do youensure amazing results without
overcoaching but without notcoaching them enough?
Because we're optimizing forlifestyle, freedom, like, how do

(31:44):
we make sure that we getamazing results for people?

Speaker 1 (31:46):
So it starts with caring about getting amazing
results for people, and youshouldn't have to say that, but
you do um it and so then how doyou express the care where you
can?
Either you get peopleincredible results by, you know
doing this one-on-one a lot.

(32:07):
We got good at turningstrategies and ideas into
tactical things that you knewhow to do.
When we first started runningworkshops, I was like I'm going
to run a workshop.
Okay, if I'm going to run aworkshop, I need a workbook.
And if I need a workbook, Iprobably need worksheets.
Literally, that was the thought.
It's kind of dumb.
But what's a worksheet?
It's just like breaking down aprocess into its component steps

(32:30):
and I think the way we teachyour clients, the way it
translates a little bit into thepublic stuff.
But the way we teach clients islike uh, it's got to be this
amazing balance put in highlevel.
I get it and I level, I knowwhat to do with it and um and so

(32:51):
every great training is likehere's why it matters, here's
what you need to know, and like,frankly, if I get the like the
three or the five keys right,the philosophy around it, even
if they screw up the tactics alittle bit, it still works
because they're thinking aboutit.
Right, and then how to once itbe like I don't want to know
exactly what to do.
I want paint by numbers as Ican.

(33:12):
And then their job isn't tothink about the process.
Their job is to pour in theircontent and their personality
and then it works.
And so one of the ways we helpclients win is by breaking
things down into very easy tofollow steps, like it's Lego.
The other way we do it is we'vebuilt an incredible community
where nobody joins Black Beltfor the community.

(33:33):
But the moment they get inthere, they realize that the
community is probably the bestpart of this.
I mean, it's an amazing.
Yeah, I'm super proud of it,but the community is incredible.
And we built this thing wherethe clients in the community
coach as much as the coaches do,and so everyone in the

(33:58):
community is filtered by arethey ambitious and are they
generous?
And if they're just one, theydon't belong.
So we've got a 60-day love it orleave it period, like a get out
of your agreement period, andthat's mostly.
We're filtering for fit, likedo we think A you can win here?

(34:20):
That's sometimes an issue, butit's more.
Are you the kind of person thatwe'd love to have over at our
place for dinner, or if we'regoing to run a live event, are
you going to add to the room ortake away from it?
You know, at our place fordinner or if we're going to run
a live event, are you going toadd to the room or take away
from it More recently?
Do that?
So I could answer this questionfor hours, and I don't want to,
so I'll call it close?

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Not at all, man.
I love you thinking about theproblem.
It's a good way to look at it.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
So, number one you know high level to high level.
Number two supportive community.
That makes asking for help okayand getting help the way we all
win faster.
So there's lots we could sayabout that.
Number three I think AI is apretty exciting.
This is the most exciting timeto be a coach right now.
There's just a bunch of toolswe can use to help clients win
faster.
Yeah, and I was if you hadasked me a year ago.
This is the most exciting timeto be a coach right now.

(35:12):
There's just a bunch of toolswe can use to help clients win
faster.
Yeah, and I was.
If you had asked me a year ago,I was like dead against it.
I thought it was bullshit and Iwas just offended by the idea
that a robot thought it wassmarter than me.
Turns out they're actuallyreally helpful.
And then short term one of thebenefits of having your head
coach me in Black Dot havereally raging ADHD is that I'm

(35:36):
really good at short-term stuff,and so our clients don't do
yearly goals or quarterly plans,they do six weeks.
There's lots of like short-term, do this now stuff which just
builds confidence and momentum,and they have to do it.
Live Like they don't come onthe class to learn stuff.
They come on the class to dosomething and finish something,

(36:00):
and so my secret goal for everysession we run is that clients
finish like they get off theZoom, like a kid in kindergarten
being able to run home to theirmom and dad going mommy, mommy,
look what I made, look what Ipainted.
Like they've produced a thing.
Um, that's, that's.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
That's probably way more than enough already that's
incredible, the way that you'reteaching is.
It's very unique, right, theway that it's more, but it's
obviously all action oriented,but it's more integration
oriented.
And I'm actually just thinkingabout how we ran.
Our mastermind was like oh, wedid no content, it was all like
specific bespoke Q&A.
But the last day was the mostimportant was because everyone

(36:40):
had ideas and they're like yeah,I want to start a YouTube
channel, I'm going to start thisfunnel, I'm going to do this.
And I said no, no, no, we needto do integration.
But I never thought about likefull integration, for sorry, so
tell me what you mean byintegration.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Give me an example.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Okay.
So let me give you an example.
So the first, like two days theway we do this is we do like
bottlenecks.
So everyone's like biggestproblem, what they're winning in
their business, what's theirbiggest bottleneck?
And then we categorize it allin terms of leads, sales and
delivery, and then we spend 24hours solving that.
Then the community is reallystrong, we go for good dinners
and it's chill.
The next day, we're alsosolving that with some guest
speakers, okay.
But then the last day, theneveryone has ideas.

(37:19):
Okay.
So one of our clients inparticular, this guy in
particular.
He was saying he has a salesproblem.
Right, we know he has a salesproblem and we were working on
that over the weekend.
But come the last day, he saidhe was like, oh, I'm going to go
start a YouTube channel.
And I said no, you don't needto start a YouTube channel, bro,
we need to solve this salesissue.
So the integration was what arewhat's the five things you want
to do over this year?
For sure, what are you going todo tomorrow and what's the top
three priorities from here?

(37:40):
And these, these top threepriorities, could be big things,
right?
Well, how do we integrate thisinto your life so that you leave
with an action plan, and I feellike the way that you roll this
up into almost your your dailysessions or weekly sessions, is
a beautiful way to just avoidthe procrastination yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
So people need different things that do like
the way you've like thoughtabout the story arc of the event
, if you think about thatthrough a session on zoom or if
you think about that in a monthin black belt.
So you Belt.
So there's coaching calls andthere's workshops.
And the workshops are, ifthere's four weeks in a month,
learn, do, meet, mastermind orplan.

(38:19):
So learn is teach a cool newthing, do is bootcamp, personal
instructor, build the thing.
Meet is this dude's just donesomething amazing.
Let's interview them, find outwhat they've done, 50-50 dose of
inspo and how-to, and thenmastermind is you know, that
kind of I'm stuck on this thing,help me out with it.
So part of it is cadence andthe other, the big piece for us,

(38:43):
is it's very easy to go to anevent like yours, anyone's and
go oh, I should be doing that.
And the truth is that the rightstrategy at the wrong time is
the wrong strategy.
Yes, 100% and so part of our jobis to help make sure that, if
we do identify the bottleneck orthe constraint, that we're
solving for that.
And so, like this morning, weran our six-week cycle, six-week

(39:07):
game plan with our clients,which is six times a year.
Everyone gets together and wecelebrate wins, we remind
ourselves of where we're going,people get to create their
future.
And then we've got a toolcalled the Focus Finder which
identifies the constraint rightnow.
And if you start a process withimagine Sorry, man, I'm getting

(39:31):
props Imagine these are all theideas that you've just had at
the event.
Come to an event, you get like50.
The moment we go great, you'vegot all these ideas.
What's the constraint?
It's whatever that one is, it'sconversion sales.
Then all of the ideas whicharen't that well, they get put

(39:55):
in the not now pile.
They're not dumb ideas, they'rejust not now.
Okay.
So now we're left with thethree Although I've got four
cards, so we call it the fourthe four cards which are about
the issue that we justidentified.
You've got some strategies youteach, I've got some strategies
I teach.
So we've got some strategiesyou teach, I've got some

(40:17):
strategies I teach.
So we've got like the ideasthey've had, plus the ones we
already brought to the table.
And then we want to filter themby impact and ease.
You know so.
And we go literally, we've gotthis page called the big easy
and this is impact and ease.
Oops, I can't spell.
And then you just go okay, low,medium, high, low, medium, high

(40:37):
, literally.
Our clients collect these atevery session and every break.
Every time they're filling inthese little cards, what's the
idea for the strategy?
How much money do you thinkit'll make me or save me?
Where does it fit Like?
Is it an attractor, like, is itmarketing sales, or strategy?
How much money do you thinkit'll make me or save me?
Where does it fit Like?
Is it an attractor Like, is itmarketing sales or delivery?
How much time's involved?
You know, is it a day, a week,a month or a whole cycle, any

(41:00):
other notes?
So over the course of a fewdays they're going to collect a
bunch of ideas, and then we justgo cool, what's the constraint,
constraint, okay, anything thatisn't that, just put that over
here.
That's in the not now pile,great for later.
And then of the remaining cards, you just plunk them down and
like okay, well, that that onefeels like really high impact
but kind of hard work okay.
But this other one here is likethis and we're just looking for

(41:22):
what we call the the big easy.
And so then we get them to betsix weeks of their life on
whatever their big easies are.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
This is so interesting.
This is so so good.
How did you?
How did you learn this?
Like I remember listening toyour podcast with with Dan
Martell.
Like I don't know.
Like I know your background andeverything.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
That was a fucking awkward conversation.
It was great I was.
I didn't have a pen.
It's really awkward.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
It was a great podcast, man.
It was amazing.
But how did you become such avisual learner and teacher and
how did you create these kind ofmodels?
And then how do you teach thesemodels, too, without being like
oh, we have 7,000 models.
Like, how do you do that?

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah.
So I learned worksheets byworkshops and just needed to
figure out how to break stuffdown.
So obviously there's a processfor, like these are all the
things we could do.
So what are all the steps?
Put them in the right order.
Are there any that we can cutand still get the outcome Great?
Are there any that we cancollapse together, because you

(42:38):
don't want like the 78-stepprocess, but if we can get it to
nine, it'll still fit on a page?
Or if it's three or four orwhatever models?
I learned from a guy called mattchurch in um in sydney
originally.
Uh, and then the short answeris man, there's only three
shapes there's circles andthere's triangles and there's
squares.
Right, anything else is justlike a version of that.
And so if there's a topic likeI don't know, marketing or a
subtopic, the first thing islike does it feel more like a
circle or a triangle or a square?

(42:59):
It's a weird question, butyou'll have an answer, like, if
I say community, you'd go oh,that's probably more of a circle
.
Yeah, I'd say so too If we'retalking about funnels, that's
kind of a bit obvious, but youget the idea.
And then for each one there,like three sub, like three kinds
of triangles I might use, orthree squares, or three
triangles, three circles, yourversions of um.

(43:25):
Dude, it's very hard to explainin a podcast in six minutes um
don't worry about it, but it's,but it's great so now, but
there's a, there's a process forit and we unpack it with like
we've got to clients models.
You don't need all of them.
All of our clients will haveone core model that they hang
all of their marketing and theirsales and their delivery off.
We call it the magic model andthat just makes it easy because

(43:48):
now, in one picture that theycan draw in a minute, they can
explain the value of what theybring and they can use it to
sell.
It informs what content shouldI create and obviously it's the
roadmap for the program theydesign.
And then all the other modelsof you know there's specific
conversion models and specificdelivery models yeah, I think it
just.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
It's just a huge point of leverage to get better
results for people, as in theycan just see it, they can
visualize it and they can speakup.
That makes sense.
This makes sense.
That makes sense because italways, as you said, it's up
here, right?

Speaker 1 (44:15):
it's not contextualized because we got
our start um, because the, theflagship part of black belt and
my first like maybe 10 years waslike live event based.
I really placed a high value onphysical artifacts and physical
tools.
So there are cards and sheetsand I've got one under here,

(44:38):
yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
That's very old school.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I'm 48.
So it is old school.
But like when somebody we trackmonthly income in belts, like
white belt is $10,000 a month,yellow is 20.
And when somebody goes up abelt, like they get the totem
for their thing and they hangtheir keys on it and their kid
goes you know their kid andtheir kid goes, you know the kid
.
Or their friend goes, hey,what's with the?
The purple belt?
Oh, that means I'm at, you know, that means them that, um,

(45:05):
you're 60 grand a month orwhatever, and I can't wait till
I get my black one.
And so I think anything,especially as the world gets
more digital, the more likephysical and touchy it is, the
cooler it gets that's such agood observation, man, and
that's why I want to ask youabout events.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
So I've really enjoyed your content around
events lately, about how to runevents and so on and, uh, how to
flow.
And when I spoke to James acouple months ago was a couple
months ago.
Yeah, we had a podcast in myhouse a couple months ago and
you know he says something veryinteresting to me which was like
events aren't designed to makemoney.
They're there for LTV.
What do you think about that?
Uh, that that approach.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Um, well, it's as true as it is false.
Um, it depends on the audience.
Like, I've run a ton of eventsto sell stuff and they're
totally about making money.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean, I mean more like a mastermind ask where you
bring people together, like amastermind-esque where you bring
people together.
Yeah, a client event, exactly,you know.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, they're definitely like they're a
massive retention tool, they'rean ascension tool.
I would agree Like, yeah,broadly, I would agree.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
But I think you've done a great job of doing that,
though in person, right, becauseyou have to tree events every
year for a boardroom and you'rebringing other people into that
ecosystem.
It showcases like the best ofthe best right at all times,
which is amazing yeah, and likethey are first and foremost a
client community event.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Uh, any, sometimes we'll have guests come,
depending on available space, um, and then they you know, they
obviously sell really wellbecause somebody's just had like
a first hand, like it's.
It's one thing to say to hearme go oh, boardroom's amazing or
blackout's incredible.
You should, you know, youshould buy it versus holy shit,
I'm in this room, everyone hereis an absolute gangster and
they're my people.
I've.
I found my squad.
I want more.

(46:49):
Like you don't have to sellvery hard when the product's
amazing and they've just tastedit.
Um, it's like a little icecream scoop at the, at the shop.
Uh, they're also really good.
They're definitely great forascension and they're really
great for retention.
So I'm a very open book.
If you want to talk aboutevents, like it's one of my
favorite things in the world,I'm very happy, and if you've

(47:09):
got other things you want totalk about, you do that too I
would love to get your insightsinto, like how you actually
structured them.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
I saw one of your your clips around.
You know, the beginning of theday is kind of for teaching and
the second part of the day islike for relaxing, and you
touched on a really good pointabout how, like, our bodies
learn and how our minds learnthrough that process of rest and
peace.
It's kind of from well, you'veobviously read 10X, you've read
2X.
You know Dan Sullivanivan talksabout I started.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I don't think I finished it.
Oh you're right you really loveit.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, it's a fantastic book, but it's really
like a more philosophical bookbecause he talks in the end
about how, when you have thosewhite space days and he has like
115 days a year where he doesnothing- yeah, three days and
then yeah, yeah, three days, andthat's where he's basically
getting his biggest insights, asyou're in that period of time.
So I'd like to to get yourthoughts on how you run
masterminds and so on throughthat lens.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, why don't I just show you rather than tell
you all about it?
I think we've done, I mean, 15years of three events a year in
Australia, plus three events ayear in the US.
It's a lot of events.
We've done a shit ton of thesethings and at the time I was
proud of the ones I did, but Iused to leave exhausted.

(48:21):
So I think the big aha thateveryone should take away about
events is like this Imagineyou're the person at the front
of the room and you're full ofgreat ideas and content and
inspiration and you want tobreathe it into people.
So I'm going to use breathing asa metaphor.
If you're at the front of theroom and you're like okay, guys,
welcome aboard.
And then you blow out likesession one to them and it's

(48:42):
amazing, but you don't take abreak, you don't breathe back in
, and then session two comes andyou give them more in session
three by the end of like the day, you're like gassed Right.
So it's exhausting.
And on the flip side, if you'rethe person in the in, you know,
at the tables, in the seats,you know you walk in and it's
like this is amazing and yousuck it in and then guess what?
They give you more.

(49:02):
They give you more and you'refull, like this is great, but I
can't take any more.
That's what firehose eventsfeel like, and so you just gotta
, you just gotta let the thingbreathe and it needs space.
And so let me um, let me showyou.
This is the map for how we runan event.
There's a couple of things Iwant you to just to kind of

(49:25):
quickly point out.
Vertically, here we go, yeah,here we go.
So this is like time of day,early morning, morning,
afternoon, late at night, andthese are days.
So this is mapped out for athree-day event.
You could use the same formatfor one or two or five.
I think five is probably a bitridiculous.

(49:50):
We used to run nine to five andthey were really good, but they
were a lot, and I don't thinkanyone really got any
breakthroughs in session four ona holiday event.
If I'm honest, they were full.
If the event's done right,they'll get all the value they
need in session one and two, andthen everything after that is
just like an amazing bonus.

(50:10):
And so in our events right nowwe run half days.
So this highlighted blue areawe call the event call, which is
like this is the stuff thathappens in a room half days.
So this highlighted blue areawe call the event call, which is
like this is the stuff thathappens in a room and, yeah, the
mornings are for working andthe afternoons are for play.
It's kind of how I think aboutit and I don't.
It's not just like white space.
You know, choose your ownadventure.
It's deliberately designed tocreate connection, because I

(50:31):
think, um, a great event, uh,great events have four things
which happen.
Uh, or, to design a great event, you need to think about these
four things.
Focus, like are we working onthe right stuff?
Uh, vertically, it's like focusand learning.
So, focus is like is it theright topics for the audience?
And learning is like can theyto your word earlier, like can

(50:53):
they take it integrated, dosomething with it?
You know, is it high level tohigh level?
Um, so, but a lot of events arelike that.
It's like you think about, likethey're basically just zoom
with table mints.
It's like you know what I mean?
It's just like content, content, content, content.
It's great but, what abouthorizontally?
horizontally, why do you come toevents?

(51:15):
Well, I don't know about you,but socialization I like want to
meet some great people orreconnect with my buds, deepen
that relationship.
That's huge, especially if yourun a community.
And collaboration, like if youcan get the clients helping each
other out, then you build thislike it's not just you and your
client, there's this whole thirdentity of like us, which is
amazing, and so the wholething's built around that idea

(51:41):
of like focus, learning,socialization, collaboration.
So let's talk about this bitand then we can chat about the
stuff outside if you want to.
But mornings are for work.
So for us typically that's likenine to one, three sessions a
day, about an hour hour and 10minutes per sesh.
Short break in between 10minutes just to go to the
bathroom, get a drink, hang outwith people.
Maybe it's 15, but that wasreally short because we've got

(52:01):
the whole rest of the day tokind of hang out together.
We don't need to, you know, youdon't need a half an hour
morning tea break when we'reonly together like learning for
a little bit.
So each of these nine sessions,not only is it different
content, often they'refacilitated by a different human
.
But more importantly, they'reall different formats so they

(52:23):
don't just feel like, oh, guestspeaker number one swap out.
Guest speaker number two,teaching different topic, guest
speaker number three.
This is like it's the same witha different face.
We don't want that.
So the formats are differentbecause then they're engaging,
yeah.
So hello is what we callsession number one, and this is

(52:49):
just welcome and frame the event.
They review, clients will lookback, figure out all the stuff
that they've learned and they'reproud of, because that's good
for building momentum.
They'll jump into breakouts andshare their biggest wins and
how they did it.
So now they get to go.
Oh, this crowd's amazing Stateof the Union 10 minutes where I
get to talk about where eitherwe as a company or we as a
community or we as an industry,where we've been, where we're at

(53:12):
, where we're going, whichallows me to set some focus and
intention.
Back to your earlier pointabout LTV and retention.
Now they know that I'm takingthem somewhere and then a
walkthrough of the event.
So that's session one.
That's enough for that.
There's one session where Iteach a thing.
It's a workshop A little bit of.

(53:35):
If you think about the threestyles of delivery in a teach.
There's like a tell all eyesare on me and I've got slides.
Then there's a show.
It's not slides, it's a flipchart and we're talking through
a model and it's about us in theshared conversation.
And then it's ask, which islike okay, now do the thing.

(53:56):
And it goes from slides to flipchart to workbook and I'm doing
the stuff with my hands.
So that's a teach.
That's the only session wherethere's Taki teaching content
across three days, which is kindof awesome.
I don't know a lot about yourcommunity yet, but a lot of

(54:17):
people, as their community grows, they'll have.
It might be like one program,but it feels like there's
different subgroups, likebeginners to advanced, or these
guys are new and these guys havebeen with you for a long time,
and so having them in the sameroom in the same sessions the
whole time is a danger.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Interesting.
Why is that?

Speaker 1 (54:37):
If you're a pro and you're in a room where they have
to teach the baby turtles babyturtle stuff, it gets boring
really quick.
You're over it.
If you're a beginner andthey're teaching pro stuff, it's
over your head and you feellike I don't belong, I don't get
it, I'm not going to make it.
And so I like to have thesubgroups kiss, kiss, but not
live together.

(54:57):
So when there's a sessionthat's great for everybody, I
want them all together.
When it doesn't, I want themseparate, either in a separate
room or in a separate table orin a separate activity.
So here we do belt breakouts.
So this is at least threedifferent groups.
So we'll break them out by 10to 30K a month, 30 to a mil

(55:18):
boardroom and mil plus, even in,even in boardroom, frankly,
like one to three mil is a thing, three to ten is a thing, 10 to
30 is a thing, um.
So we either split by stage orwe split by topic.
You know, attract, convert,deliver could be breakouts.
So that way there's somethingfor everybody and my goal is
that it's always everyone's turn.
It's not like a relay racewhere it's like, oh, they're

(55:40):
going and I'm sitting herewaiting for my go, is that
helpful?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yes, how do you so double top on the last point, do
you mean that they're all inthe breakouts synchronously,
basically so that there's onepeople over there?
That's the sub 20k months.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Literally, it might be as simple as sub 20k.
Literally it might be as simpleas but depending on the size of
the space and the number ofpeople, it might literally be in
this corner.
You guys are going to go herewith that person.
You're going to be working on xand you guys are going to be
going over there and talkingabout that, and you guys are
going to come with me over hereamazing.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
And then for for context, like that the
facilitator is is teaching inthat regard, or would that
facilitator just be like what'sthe conversations or breakout
rooms are they?
Are they doing?

Speaker 1 (56:15):
shit.
It could be.
It could be all of the aboveand, depending on what happened
before it, uh, it could be.
It could be either now thething a day's got a energy curve
to it, like most people aremore fresh in the morning and
less fresh in the afternoon.
So if they're less fresh in theafternoon, even though it's
still like technically morningbecause we haven't had lunch yet

(56:36):
.
But it's the third session,generally we're going to do more
tell and listen at the startand more move, discuss, do in
the afternoons, generallyspeaking, and so I don't just

(56:57):
think about how to make asession good, I want to think
about how the flow of the daygoes, and so this is usually
much more talky.
This session here is amastermind People in groups of
six, talky Hallway, likesix-week game plan.
I need everyone focused at theend to integrate to your work
before.
So that's, it's facilitated ina really engaging way.

(57:20):
But it's not the discuss, butthis is a discuss.
So every day's got a little bitof all the formats that's so
interesting.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
You know this is reminds me of a better way to
run a school system.
100 the way that you thinkabout it yeah, and all it is is
just going.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Okay, what's the experience I want to create?
What's the feeling I want tohave?
Um, alfred hitchcock that Idon't know how old you are, dude
, I'm old.
So hitchcock was this moviedirector.
He made um thrillers, umpsychological thrillers, and
apparently, when he sees adirector and he had two scripts
for every movie one on bluepaper, one on green paper the
blue paper was like what happens?
Like, uh, man walks in, getsattacked by birds or whatever,

(57:58):
yeah, whatever that the, theaction and the words were, and
the green script was.
While that's happening, how doI want the audience to feel?
And so that would indicatelighting and music and stuff.
And so, if you think about this, like, how do I want my
audience to feel?
You know, here, excited, I'm inthe right place, it's amazing,
oh, that was epic, likeenergized and fun, right, um,

(58:22):
then we run sensei sessions.
These are my favorite parts ofthe event.
We handpick four clients who aredoing amazing things.
Uh, typically there'll be uh,uh, and it's like what have you
done the last four months?
Because we get together fourtimes, three times a year.
That has made the biggestdifference to you in terms of
attract, convert, deliver orscale.
You know the four kind of coreareas for our world.
And so we pick four clients,one for each, and we do this in

(58:44):
two parts.
There's an eight minute ted talk, each in front of everybody,
and so this is like the trailerfor the movie, but useful, not
just like, oh, it was great,it's like, this is what we did.
Here's one piece of it.
And then we have a quick breakand when we come back since a
session two is 50 minute deepdive people get to make the
hardest choice.
They make the whole event,which is like which one of these

(59:05):
bowlers do I want to go hangout with for 50 minutes and go
deep on.
And then it's like the tightera community you build.
Guest speaker day three and itcould either be day teach or you
interview.
Either way is fine.
Hallway experience I don't havetime to go into, but it's like

(59:27):
roundtables around differenttopics and then six-week game
plan, which is the capture cardsand the focuser and the mission
and the big easy.
So that's what happens in themorning.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
It's so interesting, right, because that's just so.
It's so on the, it's justaction-oriented, like everything
you do is action-oriented.
It's getting them to actuallyjust do shit and be able to
understand what's moving next.
But what's most important andone observation I had of my
events, my two masterminds wasone in the evening, so we had
dinners both evenings, bothmasterminds, but one we had like

(01:00:00):
activities like our gym workout, we do things together, and the
other one we didn't, okay, andthe one that we didn't.
One of the feedback from one ofthe one of the guys there was
like, oh, I wish I had that, Iwish I wish I had it again.
The connection piece, right.
So yes, they got more contentin mastermind 2, but they got
less connection because theyweren't doing shit together.

(01:00:21):
Now we still had dinners andstuff.
Interesting observation, though, right yeah, so then you've.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
If it's an in-person event and you've just gone, like
again the morning is like themorning is going to be knock
your socks off good, and thatgives you early morning, lunch
afternoon, dinner asopportunities for connection.
Um, the real goal of theafternoons for me is like, can
we create memories here?
So they're like oh, rememberwhat were you at the event in
fiji?
Yeah, that was the one where weblank.

(01:00:48):
That was the one where werented the epic floating bar in
the middle of the aisle, in themiddle of the ocean and and
drank and ate together andjumped off and we snorkeled out
to the thing and the waiter cameover on a speedboat with our
drinks.
He's creating memories.
When it comes to the activities,obviously, this is all numbers

(01:01:08):
of people dependent.
Some of these events.
We do stuff here at my houseand it's 12 people.
Why?
Because there's 12 chairsaround the dining table and
that's the reason why it's 12,right, if we do like Fiji was
like 140 or 150 or somethinglike that, and so, yeah, the

(01:01:29):
more people that you can mix upthe afternoon activities a
little bit.
And I think you want to thinkabout introverts and extroverts.
Introverts probably want alittle bit more chill and
they've just been in a room witha lot of loud people and maybe
they don't want more of that,and so we'll typically have like
a think about a spectrum fromlike chill.

(01:01:52):
So we'll rent out a section ofthe beach and that's like our
section of beach.
We just hang in cabanas andthey can swim or they could do
whatever, uh, to pamper like ifit's all.
It's all.
Dudes, you probably don't needthis.
But if it's a mix, um, you knowthere's a spa, massage, that
sort of stuff, um, active orextreme, and and you don't have

(01:02:16):
to have all the options all thetime.
But we usually will have likeeach of those four options for
people and they just likeself-select where they want to
where they want to go.
That's beautiful man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
That's such a good point.
You've really mastered this,dude.
You've mastered this.
This has been such a greatmaster class, man no, buddy, but
even just all the miniaturetouch points, like the way that
you teach, the way that youbring everything together, the
way that ever comes full circle,like you know, big thank you to
you for what you've been ableto put out over the years and

(01:02:47):
big thank you to the way thatyou're getting results for
people like this has beenamazing and uh, yeah, I want to
say a huge, huge thank you.
This was a such greatconversation, man, and I love.
What I love most is the waythat you think about it, the way
that you think about theproblem.
That's why I asked you mostlyhow do you think about this, how
do you think about this?
And uh, it's a, it's abeautiful.
It's a beautiful way to look atit as well.
So, big thank you, sir 100welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
This is great fun.
I appreciate you.

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#291 Taki Moore - How to Build a $1M Coaching Business Without Sales Calls or Funnels

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#291 Taki Moore - How to Build a $1M Coaching Business Without Sales Calls or Funnels