#298 Tom Noske - How to Turn Your Passion Into a Profitable Business - Kickoff Sessions

Episode Transcript
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Darren Lee (00:00):
Is it truly possible to turn your passion into a
profitable business?

Tom Noske (00:06):
Yes, I think so.
The word entrepreneur hasbecome conflated with like
systems and people talking aboutlike how to run a business and
all these different ways ofdoing things.
But at the end of the day,business or being an
entrepreneur is just thebusiness that you have, then
informs the content you make,which then informs the traffic
you build, and so that's areally roundabout way of

(00:26):
basically saying if you have aproduct you want to sell, that
then informs the type of contentyou make in order to drive
people to that business.

Darren Lee (00:34):
My biggest mistake I made for most of the first five
to six years is trying to Mostcreators are chasing the wrong
game, posting every day, chasingfollowers, trying to become
famous, then wondering whetherstill broke or burnt out.
In this episode, I sat downwith Tom Nosky, the creator of
Time to Build, who went fromburnout to building a multi six

(00:55):
figure a month business with nosales calls, no DMs and no
burnout.
We break down how to build areal business around your
personality, your passion andyour brand without becoming a
slave to the algorithm.
If you're serious aboutmonetizing with leverage, this
podcast is for you.
Let's kick off.
Is it truly possible to turnyour passion into a profitable

(01:18):
business?

Tom Noske (01:20):
Yes, I think so.
I think it depends how youdefine business right.
I think a lot of people comeinto.
I think entrepreneur has becomesuch a big word on social media
and so it's gotten to the pointwhere people come into this
with this expectation of whatthat word means.
But when you think about, couldI build an audience on social
media who are interested enoughin what I do that they'd be

(01:42):
willing to buy something that Isell?
I think anyone can do that,even if it's not your primary
thing, even if you're selling,say, a service, you're a
freelance videographer,freelance web designer and you
happen to sell digital productsor something associated with
that skill set.
I think anyone can do that, andso I think it depends how you
define it.
But absolutely, yeah, you could.

Darren Lee (02:03):
Let's double tap on the expectations of the
entrepreneur.
What do you think people thinkthat that is versus the reality
of it, because I have my ownopinion on that too.

Tom Noske (02:11):
Yeah, yeah I I think, like I think the word
entrepreneur has becomeconflated with like systems and
people talking about like how torun a business and all these
different ways of doing things.
But at the end of the day,business or being an
entrepreneur is just convincingsomeone to send money from their
wallet to your wallet inexchange for something.

(02:32):
And so sometimes that's time,sometimes that's a service,
sometimes that's a digitalproduct, a physical product,
whatever it is.
But at the end of the day, thatis the core of what being an
entrepreneur is is convincingsomeone to send money from their
wallet to your wallet inexchange for some point of value
.
And I think it's becomeconflated a little bit where

(02:55):
people over complicate it andthen that stops people from, I
guess, getting started or evencalling themselves a business
person.
A lot of people, especiallycontent creators, will call
themselves a content creatorbefore they call themselves an
entrepreneur without realizing,like, if you don't have a job
and you pay your rent each month, you're an entrepreneur.
That's, by definition, whatthat means.

Darren Lee (03:16):
And it's ironic, right, because I completely
agree with you A lot of thethings that we're being told are
like an overcomplication, right?
It's as simple as leads, salesprocess and a delivery process.
That delivery process of adigital product could be nothing
you could be selling a $9 ebook.

(03:36):
It could be more complex, but Ilike to really break it down
into the very core essence andthen it comes into your world,
which is what is the attentionthat we need to drive towards
generating those leads, orgenerating those eyeballs, or
generating that traffic.
And I think, if you look atyour journey, that's like being
almost watching what, thosebiggest mistakes that you made,
thinking about what you neededto get attention for your

(03:57):
business versus what you did.

Tom Noske (03:58):
I think it's like the biggest mistake I made was the
chicken or the egg argumentwhich has to come first the
business or the attention?
And I think a lot of my earlydays was spent thinking if I
just built enough attention andI know this is such a cliche
it's like you got to try to makemoney.
To make money, making money inanything, requires effort and

(04:22):
trying to actually make money.
But I think I had this idea inmy mind that with enough traffic
, enough attention, that moneywould follow, when in reality it
is almost the decision you makeor the business that you have
then informs the content youmake, which then informs the
traffic you build.
And so that's a reallyroundabout way of basically
saying if you have a product youwant to sell, that then informs
the type of content you make inorder to drive people to that

(04:44):
business, and so the best thingyou can have in order to
maximize this is something thatyou want to sell in mind before
you make the content.
Not that every piece of contentneeds to sell, but you want to
have a pretty good idea of whatyou're trying to sell, because
then that makes it a lot easierto speak to the specific kind of
people that you want to sellthat item to, and I think so.
That's my, or I would imaginethat's my biggest mistake I made

(05:07):
for most of the first five tosix years is trying to just make
content and hope that thatwould turn into enough traffic,
enough affiliate deals, enoughsponsorship revenue, that the
number would add up at the endof the month.

Darren Lee (05:23):
Just want to take one quick break to ask you one
question have you been enjoyingthese episodes?
Because, if you have, I'dreally appreciate if you
subscribe to the channel so thatmore people can see these
episodes and be influenced tobuild an online business this
year.
Thank you, I'd love to hit thisfrom a few different angles,
just staying on that pointspecifically.
Yeah, I completely agree withyou.

(05:43):
Like I looked at my journey aslike a podcaster.
Now, in the beginning I itwasn't there to make money, so
it was just my curiosity andjust trying to interview like
founders, entrepreneurs, liketech people and so on, and then
it developed.
But the second that I did havewhat I was offering or what I
was servicing.
The content was dictated bywhat I was actually delivering

(06:04):
to people.
So whether it's tactical,whether it's framework, whether
it's trend-based or whether it'seven my values and so on, so I
could have that one-to-one likerelationship which I think can
be easier for people to draw out.
If you talk to your program oryour product, you can almost
draw out a scaffoldingeffectively for your content at
that point.
So I think, that's one way toproportion it, to make it simple

(06:26):
.
But then if I look at yourobservation or if I look at your
approach of you know you arethe niche and you don't need the
niche out and too much is.
This a bit of a challengesometimes, because some of the
content might be, you know,cycling, triathlons, lighting
you know that it's dispersed atthat point.
So how do you think about that?

Tom Noske (06:46):
So my philosophy around personal branding is one
it builds on a few foundations,so one.
I think that, at its core,content is supposed to attract,
not sell.
So your job with content is toattract, the job of your sales
funnel is to sell, and so allyou need to do when you're
making content is attract thetype of people that you want
into your world and then convertthem if they happen to be the

(07:09):
suitable person for your product.
Not saying you should leave itup to chance, but I think
there's like this fallacy whereand I think a lot of creators
shoot themselves in the footbuilding the amount of impact
you could is almost stoppedbecause they're worried about
total conversion of followersinto customers, where that's
literally impossible.
A good conversion rate from myemail list, from emails

(07:33):
collected to customers sold, islike 15%, and that's from an
email list.
And so in terms of an audience,like total audience size into
total customer size, the factthat people even think that they
can have total customer tototal follower to customer
conversion is a waste of timeand, I think, stopping them from
having the maximum impact thatthey could have.

(07:53):
And so for me, I've always sortof started at the core of your
content.
The purpose of your content isnot to convert, it's to attract.
The purpose of your salesfunnel is then to convert, and
so, with that in mind, theapproach is then okay, well, who
is the type of person that I'mbest positioned to help?
And in, that person may be apotential customer.

(08:16):
That person may be a few stepsbehind your potential customer
or maybe even a few steps aheadof your potential customer, but
if you have a specific person inmind, then you become kind of
the perfect content creator forthat specific type of person.
And the irony of targeting onespecific person instead of a

(08:37):
niche is it actually increasesthe breadth of your content,
right?
And so if I was just targetingDarren Lee with my content, I
was like all I want to do ismake sure I fucking nail the
content for Darren Lee.
I want Darren Lee to imaginethat I'm reading his mind.
I would make like healthcontent, I would make fitness
content, I'd make hair routinecontent, I'd make living in Bali

(08:57):
content, I'd make businesscontent, I would attack every
area of your life and you'd goholy fuck, this is my perfect
person.
Without realizing I'vedominated a market with you, the
specific type of person, butwith a massive, wide range of
content.
There's this quote from the 22Immutable Laws of Marketing.
It's that the apparent targetof your marketing is not the

(09:21):
people that will eventually buyyour product.
I've butchered the quote, butit's essentially that the people
that will buy your product arenot the actual people that
you're targeting in yourmarketing.
And so, the same way that agood example of this is like
Apple, for example, like Apple'starget market when they sit in
their boardrooms, is creativeprofessionals.
Like right, creativeprofessionals are probably the
target of their marketing, buteveryone buys Apple products,

(09:45):
and so Apple have done such agood job targeting that tiny
demographic of creativeprofessionals that everyone
wants to be a creativeprofessional, and so your job
with your content, if you wantto really have maximum impact,
is to target one very specifichuman being in every aspect of
their lives, and so, for me, allI'm trying to do at the end of

(10:08):
the day, is help my former selfbecome who I am today, and so
that means that anything thatfalls within the bracket of that
person's interests iscompletely fair game in my
content, and, ironically, one ofthe stories that I always kind
of call upon to prove this pointis I've had about 1,000
customers go through Time toBuild in the last two years.

(10:30):
Probably 940, I would sayaccurately 940 customers have at
least and I'm not exaggeratinglike a dozen to two dozen of the
80 students who have eitherdone an Ironman plan on doing
Ironman or are actively trainingand weeks out from an Ironman.

(10:52):
No way 0.04% of the populationhave ever done an Ironman and
20% of my customer base havedone Ironmans.
And so the kicker is thatpeople who have done Ironmans
and are interested in contentcreation and business I'm the
only person that exists.
No one else exists that thosepeople are going to go to.

(11:13):
And so for you, ironically, youmaking hair routine videos
might actually be the singlebest thing for converting
followers into diehard fans.
And this is like the impactversus business argument or
impact versus entrepreneurshipargument, because I do think and
we're kind of speaking aboutthis before we hit record I

(11:36):
think for maximum impact, youcan't go for maximum business
with your content.

Darren Lee (11:41):
A hundred percent and dude.
There's so many points I wantto unlock.
One of the biggest things comesup for me is I saw a clip from
you months ago was saying thatif you wanted to maximize the
money you'd make, you would makecontent just very similar to
Ravi Ravi Avula just like verysystematic, just very like flow,
charity stuff, and, yeah, we'dget a ton of leads, but you
would run out and get bored withit.

(12:01):
Instead, you want to be morelike a Rogan, a Ferris, where
you're just constantly going atthis continuously and the way
that I see this play out, orjust to try to conceptualize it,
is hitting the health, wealthand relationship bracket right.
So if you ever see some of mycontent, yes, it can be very,
very like specific, lucid charts, which is like actually showing

(12:22):
someone some systems we use.
But then I'll have some likedog content from my dogs,
because one of my highest valuesare my dogs, like I, literally
like love my dogs.
I have four of them and I gotthem all from the street in bali
, but then I'm also married,okay and I share a lot of.
I share a lot of my valuesthrough being married okay, and
then on top of that is my healthOkay.

(12:44):
So I was a bodybuilder when Iwas younger and I still like
train every single day, evendespite how busy I am busy.
The reason why I'm sharing thisis because your customers are a
reflection of you.
And a lot of the people thatcome into my world just world in
general are married, are intofitness, they were in like the
bodybuilding space and they havebusinesses, businesses or they

(13:05):
were in finance and tech and allthis kind of stuff beforehand.
So it's ironic because when wespeak to people they always say
I feel like I was you at like acertain point in time.
And it's a very, veryinteresting observation because
if your free content does hitall those different parameters,
that should be enough to solvetheir painful problem, that this

(13:25):
specific problem that they havein time right now for free, and
that will start that kind ofalmost like marketing flywheel
that yes, they may not buy fromyou, but but do you need
everyone to buy from you?
I am, I had my mastermind lastweek and james kemp spoke at it.
So james kemp, uh, used to workwith tacky more.
I actually have a podcast tackytomorrow.
Um, and james said that over 60.

(13:46):
So out of his revenue, which isa 200k a month, 60 of that
revenue come from 10 of clients.
It's just going to be alwaysgoing to be like the 80 20 rule.
So knowing that and knowing howthis pans out statistically,
yeah this seems like a fuckinggreat idea to have more hair
content, right, it's just, it'sliterally all going to check out
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Noske (14:08):
Literally, I think there's a, there is this, there
is this push.
But even if you, I think thebest kind of explanation for
doing this is if you don't, ifyou don't include your origin
story and your own unique thingsand everything that makes you
into your content, your audience, we're human beings, we're

(14:29):
emotional spenders, and sopeople are going to do that
anyway.
People are going to makeassumptions about you anyway.
They're going to draw up apicture of what you are like in
your own life anyway, and so youcan either control the
narrative and show people theiceberg that is beneath the
surface, or you can leave it upto chance and hope they do it.
But either way, they're goingto do it and their buying

(14:50):
decision is going to be basedemotionally, because we're
emotional people, we'reemotional spenders.
I have endless examples ofsituations where I've spent way
too much money because I gotemotional about something, and
so there's, I think, thisundeniable reality where you can
either do this, and it'llprobably work a bit better for

(15:11):
you, or you can avoid it, andpeople are going to do it for
you anyway.
They're going to draw their ownconclusions, and you're right.
It's the Russell Brunsonexample as well of.
He had a miscarriage and thenspoke about it on stage and at
the end for his call to action,the back of the stage or the
back of the room was filled withwives who had just had
miscarriages.
And so it happens over and overand over again where that one

(15:35):
point of connection is the thingthat gets them over the line
for people, and it's down tothis point.
I think this is like a goodsegue, like I've realized
recently that I think trust isbuilt on taste, like I think
there's a big thing in content,especially where the trust that

(15:55):
you have for a mentor, for thecreators you follow, for the
people you buy from, is taste.
It's the taste that that personhas.
It's the vibe they create.
It's the environment they thatperson has.
It's the vibe they create.
It's the environment theycreate in their content.
This is why creators who arewell-dressed tend to do so much
better, because they haveamazing taste.
Or the creators that haveamazing setups or amazing

(16:18):
lighting or have an interestingcharacter.
Maybe it's the way they look orthe way they dye their hair, or
they've got long, beautifullocks, something about that is
the thing that people attachthemselves to, because it's
taste.
It's the, the taste they create, it's the welcoming environment
, it's the vibe, it's theaesthetic, and I know it's kind
of a null point because it's youcan't teach cool, like you

(16:40):
can't teach people to be cool.
But I think the the biggestunfair advantage in terms of
making content that converts isincluding the things that make
you you.
And I know that's such afucking fluffy esoteric, you
know woo-woo point, but it'strue, man, like, over and over
again I'm reminded that you haveto be you, that you have to be

(17:06):
you.
The best content you can makeis the stuff only you can make,
which is your story, your originstory, the, your struggles,
your setbacks, your childhood,all the things that made you you
.
Is the stuff that people uh,it's memorable for people and
makes them connect with you 100man.

Darren Lee (17:19):
I um, I'm thinking of dakota roberts, and I know
dakota spoke in your, in yourcourt.
He's a he's a very close friendof mine.
We spent a lot of time togetherand if you look at his.
If you look at his content, hedeliberately says like, yep,
this isn't for you.
If you're X, y, z, he'll sayjust outlandish shit.
His landing pages, testimonialsby himself and he spoke in our

(17:41):
program and I've met him andI've had many podcasts with him
and I said that he has like astand-up comic character, like
he should actually do stand-up.
He's actually hilarious To thepoint that that would probably
push some people away but itpulls in people into like his
cult right.
So that's the taste.
People that are, yes, they wantto build a business but they're
a little bit more chill aboutit.

(18:02):
And he he balances that very,very, very well and even the
aesthetic around it.
What I wanted to ask you aboutspecifically is um relatability
versus authority.
So I know you've mentionedthings like this and uh, it's
funny, man, because indirectlyI've also spoken about this how
I feel that the guys that arereally putting themselves on the

(18:23):
pedestal, the guys that reallywant to be seen, as you know,
god-like status, yeah, I don't,I don't, I'm not relatable to it
, I don't feel connected to it,and I find that that actually
deters people.
However, keeping down to earthor just having that sense of
normality effectively pulls morepeople into the interior
ecosystem.

(18:43):
Now let me give you an exampleof that person that said that
they felt the pain that I was in.
That individual, that womanliterally said I feel like I'm
in that position of pain thatyou were once in, and I
responded saying yes, I know howit feels.
It feels terrible, let's fix it.

Tom Noske (18:58):
Yeah, yeah, there's yeah.
I love this point.
There's uh, there's like point.
There's power in juxtaposition,and so having both ends of the
spectrum makes either end moreimpactful.
And so if you just get onsocial media and complain all
the time, no one's going to care, whereas if you just get on

(19:20):
social media and you talk aboutsystems and how good you are and
how you never slip up and youhave these perfect days, no
one's going to care.
But if you get on camera andyou're like I've got this system
for running my business, itreally helps me and, by the way,
I have ADHD, and so you've gotthis contrast between these two
things, you're like, oh well,clearly I should listen to this
person because they're effectivewith ADHD.

(19:40):
And I think the point you madewhere the lady felt like they
were in your position, I'vedrawn the equivalent to.
It's like a ladder right.
And so if you're all the way uphere and you've achieved
amazing heights, you've beenmaking hundreds of thousands of
dollars a month, you've got thisbig podcast, it's incredible.
You're all the way up here,your customers are down here,
and if they don't see a fewsteps in between that you've

(20:03):
gone through personally, theycan't bridge the gap.
It's too far.
And so if you're up here making, let's, $100,000, $150,000 a
month and your customers aredown here, but then you tell the
story of starting your business, you were like you know what?
I started my business, I quitmy job and I did this.
I went out on my own.
It was really scary.
They can go fuck, darren washere.
Well, I could definitely get tothere, and if he was there then

(20:24):
I can definitely have a crackat getting there.
I don't know how I'm going todo it.
And so it almost throws them alife raft or a ladder in order
to get to where you are, whereasif you're just this person
who's holier than thou, you'rein your high horse for
everything you do, everyone'sgoing to look at what you're
doing and go.
I don't feel like that at all,and so it's probably not
realistic.
I think it's also the point of Idon't know if you ever get this

(20:46):
emotion.
It's probably the Australian inme, but I always look at people
, and if I don't feel like I cansee the chink in their armor, I
don't believe anything they say.
If I look at someone and I'mlike, this person never shows
any faults, any flaws.
They act like every day isperfect.
Meanwhile, yeah, I'll get up atfive o'clock some days, but

(21:09):
then other days I'll wake up at8.30 because I slept through my
alarm and I start my day at nineo'clock and I don't train and I
feel like shit and I eat aburger for lunch and I drink on
the weekends and all these sortof things.
It's like not being able to seethe chink in the armor makes me
not believe the things that yousay.
And so if you just show me somereality, some small slip up, or

(21:32):
even if it's nothing crazy,even if it's like hey guys, I
talk about systems and I talkabout routine, but some days I
don't do that and it's okay,that would immediately make me
believe your routine more,whereas when I see these guys
post on their stories, they'relike here's my daily routine.
I get up at 3.30 and then I'vegot meditation and then I do
this from 4.30 till 5.00.

(21:53):
I'm like bullshit.
You did this today and you'venever done it again.
Or you never did it in the firstplace, and so I think having it
all comes back to this idea thejuxtaposition is what makes
either end impactful, and sohaving contrast between your
best and your worst is whatmakes your best desirable and

(22:15):
what makes your worst relatable.
And so I've always told thisstory the best one that I've got
, and I'll rip this out for thepodcast.
But I always use this examplein my lessons, where I was
bullied in high school for beingstupid so I'm dyslexic and I
have ADD.
So I'm dyslexic and I have ADD,so I don't have the

(22:36):
hyperactivity one.
And so I was in high school.
We were at similar age, and soI was in high school fuck 15
years ago now, or 10 years ago.
I finished high school.
So I was in high school fuck 15years ago now, or 10 years ago.
I finished high school, so I wasentering high school 15 years
ago, and so I was always kind ofuh, treated differently.
Like my closest brother is ADHD.
He's mega hyperactive, and sohe was always put in like the

(22:58):
special classes.
He was given extra support.
He was given like instead ofhaving to read books, they
always gave him audio books.
They always let him use alaptop in the test because he
couldn't do paper.
Blah, blah, blah.
Meanwhile I was, like, sat atthe back of the classroom, quiet
, and so no one cared.
And so I was bullied in highschool for being dumb, to the
point where it was like I wouldslip up on my words, I would

(23:19):
misuse a word because of mydyslexia, and so I would use
something that's completelywrong in a sentence, and so
people would bully me for it.
And I remember it got to thepoint where I was bullied so bad
that I would go to school eachday and go.
If I just shut the fuck up,there's nothing for them to me,
nothing for them to bully me for.
And so I use this comparisonwhere I'm like I was bullied

(23:42):
into silence in high school andnow I make a living speaking on
the internet, and so you onlycare because of the contrast.
If I'm just telling that story,you know well, it doesn't matter
, but you're listening to mespeak to camera and make a
living speaking on the internet,and you hear that story and
you're like, fuck, I could dothat.

(24:03):
Like if tom can do that, I cando that.
And so it's this, it's thiscontrast that you have to have.
If you're just thisholier-than-thou character, no
one cares, man, it's notrelatable dude.

Darren Lee (24:15):
This is.
This has firing me in athousand different ways, like
I'm thinking about so muchdifferent concepts of why things
have worked, and maybe me justnot doubling down on them, or
maybe not realizing things right.
So let me give you, let me havesome context.
So I gave up alcohol a thousanddays ago, over a thousand days
ago.
Oh, wow congratulations.
Thank you, my man.
I gave up, though, because Iwas working a nine to five and I

(24:38):
had no time to work in mybusiness because I used to spend
all the time yeah, like irishand australians, right.
What do we do?
Just party okay so I used totell that story and, from the
perspective, I just gave upbecause I was working my
business and then eventually gotaway from it and, yes, like it
was all true, whatever it wasfine was fine.
But then actually, funnilyenough, the more time I'd spend
away from alcohol, the more timeI realized that I actually had

(25:00):
an issue with alcohol.

Tom Noske (25:01):
So when I was young, twenties.

Darren Lee (25:02):
Like you, based in Melbourne.

Tom Noske (25:04):
Yeah.

Darren Lee (25:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So Melbourne, like the houseand techno scene there's huge at
the club scenes.
They're huge.
So was in Ireland.
So was in the UK and I actuallyhad realized that I actually
had an issue right the whole.
So was in the UK and I actuallyhad realized that I actually
had an issue right, the wholeidea of like going down every
weekend and getting absolutelysmashed and obliterated and
going to these like sessions,like that's not good, right.
but as longer I spent away fromit, the more I had realized that
, the more I drew my awarenessto it.

(25:25):
And I was just telling this, Iwas telling this in my stories.
I was getting to 500 days, athousand days, and I was like,
look, dude, where people likeI'm actually realizing that I've
had issues with alcohol.
And the second, I kind ofchange our frame.
So many people are comingforward and saying I was exact
same.
I'm in Ireland.
I didn't realize this.
Now I'm beginning to see it.
What can I do about it?

Tom Noske (25:46):
And just completely.

Darren Lee (25:47):
Just in my DMs I'm like, yeah, like I would put
together a plan.
I do 30 days, 60 days, 90 days,and the question I always say
to myself is like, instead ofwhen it's, why would I drink
again?
This is my own case.
Everyone's case is different,but I find it very interesting
because, as you said, that hasnothing to do with my business,
but it pulls people in in anactual, real, authentic way,
because I would literally was sonaive to think that I didn't

(26:10):
have an issue with alcohol.
That's actually how naive I wasand if I look at it objectively
, I can see that.
So another quick reminder.
And then when you see thecontrast, the juxtaposition, it
has a huge impact overall huge.

Tom Noske (26:24):
yeah, it's, it's probably one of the most power.
I mean it's storytelling rightbefore and after contrast, like
it's storytelling.
It's the reason why, uh, malfoyin harry potter is like from a
wealthy, a wealthy family, andHarry Potter is an orphan.
There's contrast between thetwo characters and so it's
always the same.
It's the classic trope and sonot to say you should use that

(26:47):
intentionally, but I think somany people are so scared to do
this, and so there's like thisreframe in your mind where I
think the content you're mostscared to make is the content
that's most important to make.
I was told by a mentor recentlyLewis Mocker, fantastic
Australian creator and infoproduct.

(27:09):
He's hardly even a creatoranymore.
His business is doing so wellthat he doesn't even make
content anymore.
But he's fantastic and he talksabout how, if you're doing
content well, it should feellike you're naked in the street
and it's like this idea of like,if you're doing it well, it
should feel extremely vulnerableand very exposing, and so, like

(27:30):
telling stories like that, I'vetold that story.
I've never told that story.
Story on content.
I've told that story behind apaywall in time to build as a,
as a use case for this situation, but it's like it should feel
uncomfortable, and so thecontent that's the scariest to
make is the content you need tomake most of the time when did

(27:51):
you make the shift really frombeing just a creator to an
entrepreneur?

Darren Lee (27:56):
because now your cohorts are so streamlined, your
launch strategy is sostreamlined we'll get into
launch strategy too but therewas almost like this shift right
for you.
Yeah, that turned you more in,more into an entrepreneur not
saying you weren't, but the factthat you built out systems and
processes like what was thatunderlying shift?

Tom Noske (28:17):
I think, the initial shift.
I was just sick of being broke,to be honest.
I think I'd just gotten to thepoint where I was like fuck this
shit, I'm done.
I've done being broke.
And so I think there was thisbig shift for me in like,
because I I've been anentrepreneur.
I've been an entrepreneur since2016.
So I quit my job at the end ofsorry end of 2016, beginning of

(28:40):
2017.
No, it would have been end of2017.
My bad End of 2017, I quit myjob, and so I've been an
entrepreneur a long time.
And from 2017, all the waythrough till like 2022 or 2021,
I just it was freelance jobs,$60,000 Australian dollars a
year, whatever.
Anyone would say yes to nothingto really write home about, but

(29:01):
I was just really proud of thefact that I didn't have to have
a job.
To be honest, that was kind ofmy perspective back then and
where my ceiling was in my mind,I did have big goals, but not
really like the goals that Ihave now are insane compared to
what I was thinking in my mindback then, and so I kind of just
floated by.

(29:22):
And then, in 2022, I think Ijust had this moment where I was
like fuck like, if I want to dosomething, I'm gonna have to
fucking do something.
And so I started reading.
I found like money Twitter orlike make money online Twitter
and that sort of got me in like2021, I think, because I was in
the NFT space and the NFT spacewas kind of like pretty toxic.

(29:47):
And so I started following,like JK Molina and Dan Coe and
Dakota as well, and startedwatching their content.
I was like, oh fuck, these allthese guys are all doing kind of
similar things to what I wasalready doing as a digital
artist and photographer andfilmmaker, but they're making
way more money out of it.
What am I doing wrong?
And so I started following downthat route and I realized that

(30:09):
there was kind of this.
There was this non-existentmarket of truly creative
creators making stuff for thosekind of people, but from the
perspective of I'm actuallydoing this to make money, it
just didn't exist.
Everyone was kind of scared toadmit that they were doing this
to make money.
I have this story from earlydays on Instagram where I asked

(30:33):
a big creator who still exists.
I asked this big creator stillexists.
I asked this big creator.
I was like, how are you makingmoney?
Because I really want to dothis full time.
And they got angry at me.
They were like that's such adisgusting question to ask.
You shouldn't ask that kind ofthing.
What are you doing?
All I'd asked was, like how areyou doing this full time?
How is this your full time job?
And they got angry at like thatwas the kind of energy in the

(30:54):
creative space.
And then suddenly I'm on likemake money, twitter and
everyone's like this is how muchI made this month.
This is exactly how I did it.
This is what you should do.
Take these lessons.
I was like this is amazing, thefact that people are so open
and talking about money.
And so I sort of threw myself inthe deep end of like selling
digital products on Gumroad,trying to do that whole thing.

(31:17):
I completely shifted my contentaway from basically trying to
make content to grow an audienceto okay, I'm trying to make
content to now sell digitalproducts.
And so I experimented withusing my skills to make ads and
trying to drive traffic to thesepages and almost immediately,
it was my biggest month.
Selling a $29 product was a$50,000 month in january of 2023

(31:41):
, and so I hit massive volumeselling a $29 product.
I had my first $100,000 monthin june of 2023, selling.
My most expensive product was$299.

Darren Lee (31:53):
Crazy man that's so wild because?
And what size was your audienceat that point?

Tom Noske (31:59):
Like 250,000, like a hundred, and probably between
180 and maybe 250,000.

Darren Lee (32:06):
Okay, I would love to get your thoughts on this.
How do you see about the?
I call it like, almost like ait's like a seesaw, if you
imagine like a spectrum of thepricing of what you sell in
relation to the audience thatyou have.
So, just for, context we have asmall audience.
I had a small audience onLinkedIn.
That's where I initially gotstarted.
People say LinkedIn is forlosers but it's good for getting

(32:28):
leads.
So we had an agency servicespecifically on LinkedIn and it
worked really well.
But because leads are few andfar between, right the boy, the
way around that was to sell highticket.
Okay, so it was like 5k, 6k, 7k, six months, 12 months and so
on.
And we still have that agency.
Right, we still have the agencybusiness, the media business.

(32:50):
It's a lot bigger now but inessence that's it.
And then on Instagram, still arelatively small audience but
super engaged.
So I would say that like a veryactive audience, but again,
it's still very, very highticket.
Right, we have programs thatare from ak to 20k to 60k.
Um, 60k is more for the agency.
The reason I'm saying that isbecause that influences the

(33:11):
decisions I make with how wedrive traffic to that product
and also the money that we'vemade and the decisions that we
make Right.
So, like, just for context,like right now we're probably
doing we're coming up to nearly4 million a year, but there's a
big infrastructure.
There's a big infrastructureright.
So, there's an education,there's a media business,
there's a lot of infrastructure.
I want to get kind of get yourdownload on that.

(33:33):
I that's a lot, but yeah so thequestion really is about.
If you look at the, if you lookat the spectrum of pricing to
audience size, how do we balancethat?

Tom Noske (33:44):
so it's.
It's really tricky.
Let me first add the nuancehigh ticket is better for making
money across the board.
Hands down, hands down alwayswill be.
I don't believe anyone who'slike nah, low ticket all the way
.
Where I kind of disagree with alot of high ticket people is I
think that the skills you buildand the long-term kind of

(34:06):
positioning of low ticket is somuch better for almost 90% of
people on social media.
I think the issue with highticket is like we said before it
rips you out of what your bestposition to do early days, which
is make more content.
The best thing you couldpossibly do for your brand and
your business long-term is putthe dollars aside, the dollars

(34:28):
and cents aside, sacrifice alittle bit of it, make more
content and then try to selllower ticket.
So you've got higher volume,less work, more profit and so,
in my opinion, I think there'sno kind of special, there's no
kind of system for if you've gotthis many followers, you should

(34:49):
sell this priced product.
I think the math needs to math.
Like, if you've got 10,000followers and you're trying to
sell a $10 product, it's notgoing to math up, and so you've
got to think about what you wantto do in that regard.
But I think there's enormousvalue in selling low ticket, at
least initially for most people,because one it forces you to

(35:10):
learn how to write bettercontent.
It forces you to learn how towrite better headlines, better
copy, make better VSLs.
It forces you to learn how todrive traffic, which, at the end
of the day, if you don't knowhow to drive traffic, it doesn't
matter how high ticket yourproduct is.
You're not going to sellanything and, yeah, you're not
going to learn sales.
You're probably not going tolearn how to do sales calls or

(35:30):
book calls or run a bit of afiltered funnel, if you will
where?
Maybe it's an applicationfunnel or something like that.
But I think the skills thatyou'll learn and then the time
and the freedom and flexibilitythat provides you back to then
focus more on content, I thinkit's just such a incredible
thing.
Now, the nuance here is, Ithink, from my own experience

(35:55):
and from everyone, I think lowticket is basically twenty
dollars to three hundred dollars, and then I think three hundred
dollars to a thousand dollarsis is info products, no man's
land.
You don't want to be in threehundred to a thousand dollars,
and so I think you either play.
You either play really smallhigh or you get the fuck away
from that middling $300,000 to$1,000 and you go high ticket.

(36:19):
Because that kind of period$300,000 to $1,000 from my
experience you tend to attract alot of Hail Mary clients.
They're the kind of peoplewhere they're spending $300, but
they're acting like they'vespent $30,000.
And so you end up in thissituation where it's just the

(36:42):
nature of that much money, wherethe kind of client who's
willing to invest a couplethousand dollars into a program
probably already believes inthemselves and has the
confidence, maybe has the resumeor the repertoire knowing that
they're going to make that moneyback, whereas someone who's
investing 400 into a programit's a Hail Mary.
It's like I have no idea ifthis is going to work.
I have no idea what this personis doing, but I'm going to

(37:04):
throw this money at this andhope it changes my life and
that's not the type of clientsyou want.
And so low ticket is amazing,because a $99 course like as
long as it's good it's literallyno effort.
There's nothing you have to doexcept for maybe handle a few
customer service emails everymonth and so that for a business

(37:24):
especially someone like you, Ithink if you had something
available, even if it only addedan extra $10,000 or $20,000 a
month to your bottom line, thatwould be $10,000 to $20,000 a
month of just pure profit comingfrom that product, and so that

(37:44):
might take your margins from.
Let's say, you're making ahundred flat.
I'm just going to assume I knowyou're making a lot more than
that, but for easy math it'slike if you make a hundred flat
and you're you're at 60 margins,you add 20 grand and you've
upped that to like 75 percentmargins, which could make a
considerable difference to yourlife and even think about this
right.

Darren Lee (38:03):
Another aspect is the big thing that we talk about
is the ecosystem, right.
It's not about yeah, it's notabout like, one purchase.
It's not about just quicklygetting someone's cash and
running away with it to bali.
Yeah, we want to keep people inthe, whether they're free users
on the email list or in YouTube.
We don't need to take your dataright.
You can just be in theecosystem or you can start the

(38:23):
journey, like if someone hasbuying intent for $19, it's
buying intent or a book, right?
Uh, funnily enough, I actuallywas in the process of planning
out a book and then I was like,look, we're just not at the time
yet.
I want to get to the pointwhereby I've done a lot of cool
shit and then we'll introduce abook, which is a low ticket,
beginning the journey with auser and I think, that's where

(38:45):
you know.
I know you've mentioned a lotabout, like client acquisition
costs going down with content,using content to drive down
costs, and I completely agreecompletely agree and I see that
over and over again.
It's just for me.
What I think we can add more tothis is keep more people in
your world, bring more people inyour world, get more amazing
results for them.
And it's funny because thebuying intent of someone for $99

(39:07):
knows you're not going tochange your entire life for $99.
As in, that's not theexpectation.
I guess, to your point about theno man's land, I completely
agree.
I think that you run into a tonof issues because if you're
selling something, even up to1500 dude there is going to be
dms.
There's going to be a lot ofdms in terms of is it going to
work for me, xyz?

(39:28):
you can't really run callsbecause you're just going to
spend all your fucking time oncalls for a shit, for a low
ticket product you can't put ina sales team because no one's
going to work for it and themargin is going to be shit, so
it's basically not beneficial.
It doesn't check out Again, themath doesn't matter, right?

Tom Noske (39:44):
No, no, no, I agree with you.
I think.
Yeah, I think, if you can avoid, if you can either play and
this is the same across.
You know, this is almost likethe rule of thermodynamics you
don't want to operate in themiddle, you want to be
ultra-premium or ultra-cheap,you don't want to be this
middling, competing on price,commodity kind of business, and

(40:04):
so I think it's the same acrossthe board.
But, yeah, I agree with you.
I think high ticket isdefinitely the play.
High Ticket is definitely theplay, but I think, in terms of,
I think we overestimate theamount of.
I think there's a hugeproportion of the people on
social media where the prospectof them selling High Ticket is

(40:25):
like, like, what, Like, what amI supposed to sell for $2,000?
Like it's almost, like it's toobig a gap, whereas if they can,
you know, put together a reallyuseful A to B, maybe it's one
system they learned on usingthis one thing.
And you know, stephen Mellor isan amazing example of this on
social media.

(40:45):
He put together a program wherehe sells a low-ticket course
and then high-ticket consultingwhere it's teaching many chat
and it's just many chat.
He just teaches you dmautomation on instagram and
nothing else and so puttingtogether like a really
incredible a to b program, Ithink, is it's such an easy step
for people and so, like I, Ithink I, I gain a lot of

(41:09):
satisfaction.
Like, obviously it would beamazing one day to help people
grow from like 100 to 200 000 amonth.
But for me, right now, I, Ilove, I love when someone
messaged me being like dude, Ijust made my first thousand
dollars on social media.
This is amazing.
Or I just made my first 10.
It's like you know, it'samazing.

Darren Lee (41:27):
I put my hand up to you because that's way harder,
because you have to get over alltheir limiting like you have to
help them solve their limitingbeliefs.
Yeah, it's those.
Very, very early infant clientsare so much harder to get
results for like genuinely beingfully transparent, like the
people that we have in our veryhigh ticket programs.
I'm like all right, like let'slook at the sales calls, let's
review the sales calls.

(41:47):
Don't say that that's dumb, saythis, this, and then they go
back and just instantly yeah,they'll just get.
Yeah, because it's so, it's sotopical.
But that's why.
Let me just take a step back.
The reason why I'm saying likewhat you're doing is 10 times
harder to get someone to make athousand dollars is because of
the fact that there's there's somuch things they need to get
right they need to start makingcontent, start building an offer

(42:08):
, get the confidence, have a.
For me, when we look at abusiness, I always talk about it
.
It's lead, sales or delivery.
For the most part, I'm likeit's a sales problem, it's a
leads problem and I'm like, oh,let's look at this.
Oh, you're running an ad, okay,let's see Does that work?
I'd shit, turn it off, fix it,turn this on.
It's just easier, you know.

(42:33):
And even even for the sake oflike, even like in our business,
um, everything is tracked,right, everything is tracked and
it's like all right, we have aproblem with lead flow.
What can we do objectively tofix this problem?

Tom Noske (42:43):
So that's why I think the position that you're in is
amazing.

Darren Lee (42:45):
You know it's an awesome position.
Now what I'd love to ask you onthat specifically is like so
for your launches, I'd love togo through like your launch
strategy.
I just had Lara Acosta on thepodcast.
She'd be great for you toconnect to it.
She's an awesome person, dude.
She's really, really awesomeperson.
She literally lives next to meand she just did her launch and
I was with her for a launchentire week as well.
And launches are tough, man.

(43:07):
Launches are very, very tough.
Um, how do you do theselaunches without, like, sales
calls, without dm uh scripts,without without all that stuff?
Like, how do you do it?
How do you price it?
How do you position it?
It's a very unique positionthat you you've crafted in this
area yeah to.

Tom Noske (43:26):
To be honest, like I'm not one of these people
that's like, oh, you don't, I'mnever going to be like uh,
bastioning like not having salescalls or not not having DM
closing, on all these sort ofthings.
I think I would make more moneyif I had a team of setters and
closers.
It's kind of undeniable.
I'm just I'm very protective ofmy peace and my lifestyle.

(43:46):
I'm like I don't want successat the expense of those things,
and I think that you can.
Sometimes there's an importantthing to come back to.
It's like the urgency you feelmost of the time is just
impatience, and so over a longenough time period, I'm pretty
fucking confident that I'm goingto get to tens of millions of

(44:07):
dollars a year and hundreds ofmillions of dollars in net worth
.
It's just probably going totake 25, 35 years, and so I
think I have the confidence toknow I'm going to do that and
I'm on the right path and I'mdoing the right things.
And so I'm happy to operate alittle bit slower in terms of
like effort, in terms of growth,in terms of top line revenue,

(44:29):
and so I often have theseconversations.
I have them with my own.
He's kind of my coachconsultant all the time, where
he'll come to me with ideas andI'm like, but will it make my
life better or worse?
And sometimes it's going tomake my life worse, and so it's
not actually a choice of.

(44:49):
This is a better system.
Let me add the nuance first,but it is possible.
For those of you who are like,fuck, I really don't want to do
sales calls and I don't want togive 25% of my business to a
setter and a closer, what do Ido?
It's like well, it is possible.
It's just a little bit moredifficult, and so everything

(45:15):
we've already spoken about iscrucially important.
You have to win people over.
You have to win people overbefore they end up on your email
list and before they end up atthe checkout page.
That has to be done.
They have to be pre-sold andthat's going to happen in your
content.
You have to win them over witheverything that we've spoken
about.
But in terms of the launchstrategy, it's essentially a
numbers game.
We go into it about at 30 daysout.
We operate on like a 43-daycalendar for the launches.
We have 30 days where webasically try to build the

(45:37):
biggest waitlist we possibly canand we sort of split that
waitlist into multiple differentwaitlists depending on how
we've generated them.
So we have ads running into acold audience for a lead funnel
and so my lead funnel is like a33-day email sequence.
Those people convert prettynicely into a waitlist but they

(46:00):
tend to be pretty cold waitlistleads and so we'll have that
list.
Then we have, like my audiencewaitlist and then we have my
email list who have thenre-opted, re-opted into the wait
list, uh, and so that isbasically a numbers game.
I know, within a margin of youknow, the wait list for this one
was, I think, like 980 on thecore list and we ended up with

(46:24):
80, and so I know, prettyreasonably, we're going to
operate between you know, an 8and 15 percent in terms of sales
from that core list into uhcustomers, and so that's how we
run things, and then yeah, it'sa number, it's a math, honestly
Itry to tell my clients whenever
I work with them.
I'm like try to envision.
I think something I dodifferently to a lot of people

(46:46):
is I try to basically get tolaunch day and know exactly how
many sales we're going to makewithin like five or six sales.
Like I knew, going into this,we're going to hit 80.
Like, I knew exactly how manywe were going to hit.
And it's because those 30 daysleading in my mind is on, okay,
for every 10 people I get in,that's usually one sale.

(47:08):
And so if I just focus onadding 10 every day, I've got
another sale.
Or adding 20 every day, I'vegot two more sales.
And then if I just focus onadding 10 every day, I've got
another sale.
Or adding 20 every day, I'vegot two more sales.
And then it's just becomes anumbers game.
If I don't have the wait list, Ineed to put out more ads, put
out more emails, put out morecontent.
And then, in terms of theactual 10 day launch period, I
think I do two things.

(47:28):
Think I I send way more emailsthan most people.
So I send, uh, between threeand four emails a day to my
entire list for the 10 days, andso all those emails are
pre-written before the launch,uh, and then we post between
three and five dedicated piecesof content, uh, for the launch
period, and usually that contentis is based on previous like

(47:50):
successful, successful contentfrom previous launches, uh, and
so it's actually lesscomplicated than you might think
.
I think the thing that we'vegotten it down to is, I guess,
the is just making sure peopleare pre-sold before they end up
there pre-sold before they endup there, and so it's going to

(48:14):
require you know, I wrote a33-day email sequence of daily
emails and that's how someonegets welcomed into my email list
.
So if you join my email list,you get sent daily emails for a
month, and then for content,it's always winning them over.
For my YouTube channel, it'salways trying to win people over
in terms of being relatable andbuilding authority and showing
that I can do this and so, andthen you need you need proof.

(48:36):
I think, like winning peopleover, there has to be proof, and
so a lot of what grew thebusiness initially was amazing
testimonials.
People were like this is legit,and then what's won people over
now is just like an undeniablestack of like.
We have a, we have a, aspreadsheet that tracks every
single student win that comes inour way through, like the wins

(48:58):
tracker in the community, andthis is not like assumed
earnings or like total revenue,it's just if they send, hey tom,
I made a thousand dollars thismonth, that number gets added to
the tally and it's at like 2.4million, and so it's just gotten
to the point where it'sundeniable.
And so I think there's a that alot of what makes those
launches successful is notactually what happens in the 10

(49:20):
days.

Darren Lee (49:21):
It's everything that happens before it's a trust
that you've built over all theyears.
It's the first video that youtook 10 years ago.
That's yeah, that's the firstseed that was planted.
Yeah, yeah and if you thinkabout the way that you track
your numbers for the emails andopt-ins.
I always think about a truelens of fitness.
So when you were doing yourtriathlon, you tracked
everything down to the degree,especially even, maybe even your

(49:44):
food, because you were trainingso much you were losing maybe
weight and so on.
You needed to do that to get toa good level of just
performance in general.
Yeah, and I think people don'ttrack their shit because they're
scared of what it might reveal.
Okay, so the typical example I Isee in the sales world is
people don't track their clothesright because they're afraid
that it's going to reflect thatthey're badly at it.

(50:05):
And the same equivalent issomeone who's overweight, who
won't get on the scales likedude.
I shit you not.
I've weighed myself on thescales every day since I was
like 17.
Every single day I've trained,I've tracked my workouts, my
food.
Now I know that seems a littlebit kind of crazy, but it's just
intuitive, right.
I wake up I just go to thebathroom, I hop on the scales
yeah, not fat today, great,let's go.
And I think having thatapproach allows me to predict

(50:29):
I'm not going to be fat tomorrow.
Just for the most, yeah, at ahigh level.
And I think bringing that intoour business and I learned this
from dickie, would you believeallowed us to just get way more
conscientious with it.
So, yes, you don't run salescalls, but you know your numbers
, man.
You're not just, yeah, put yourfinger up in the fucking air
and you're saying, yeah, yeah,that's fine, dude, all good, all
good.
Now my question for you on thisis so we pre-sold them.

(50:50):
We have the indoctrinationemails that are coming out
slamming them and so on.
What happens if someone wantsto buy but they just have a few
more questions like did it gointo your dms?
What?
How do you manage that?
Is there anything?

Tom Noske (51:03):
there you would advise on so we have I, I have
my wonderful, uh, daniel marodoy, who's my 2IC of Time to Build.
He's basically my CTO of theprogram and so he basically
handles everything in regards toinbound questions that we get

(51:24):
about the program and he's aweapon in regards to that, and
so a lot of those questions getanswered by him.
And then, yeah, I'll be kind oflike jumping into DMs here and
there in the days leading intothe launch.
But it's not like I've got noCRM tracking conversations, I've
got no follow-up set, I've gotno person doing that for me.
It's just like, hey, dude, I'mthinking of joining, is this

(51:46):
suitable for me?
And I'll just send them througha couple of examples of
students that have won fromtheir particular industry or
whatever.
And so, yeah, we kind of have alittle bit of a loose process
for that.
But to be honest, I think I'vealways kind of I tried sales
calls, one launch, I think likea year ago now, and all I could
think the whole time I booked mycalendar for like six days

(52:06):
straight from 8am to 1pm andthen from like 3 pm to 8 pm,
because of the Australian timezone, like all of the US and UK
clients are all like 6 am to 9am my time, and then from 4 pm
to 10 pm my time, and so it wasjust fucked.
And I got to like day three.
I had like three people in arow just not show up and I'm

(52:38):
like, why am I not just makingmore content or writing more
emails right now?
What am I doing?
Why am I here?
Why wouldn't I just be doingthat?
And I know there's the idea ofand I have thought about this.
To be honest, I have thoughtabout bringing on a team and
having them do it for me, but Idon't know.
I think there's immense valuein and I might just be this
might just be my limiting belief, this might just be me trying
to explain my processes away,but I don't know.
I like the prospect of like.

(52:59):
By the time someone swipestheir credit card, they're
fucking fired up.
They're like I'm in, I'm allthe way in, and I also have this
experience.
I remember when I was a bityounger and a lot more naive I
think I was like 22 at the timeor something and I had tried to

(53:19):
sell an online course.
It was like a Photoshop forcontent creators online course,
and this was back in.
I think it was 2020 actuallyand so I failed to sell this
course.
I like sold barely any, and sosomeone found me on LinkedIn and
reached out and they were likeoh, dude, I can help you do this
.
It's going to be like $2,000 amonth for six months and

(53:39):
immensely, but it was.
The whole reason I bought isbecause it was a sales call
where it was either swipe mycredit card on the call or I'm
not getting off this call, andbecause I was like 23 and

(54:02):
impressionable and a bitdesperate, I did it and I really
regret it.
And so it's like this situationwhere and the program was dog,
shit, the fucking.
It was basically the person whowas on the call with me was the
lead, but then I never spoke tothem again.
It was like this horror, shittyfucking program got scammed out
of what is that?
Two thousand by six, twelvethousand us dollars at the time,

(54:25):
which is a lot of money for anaustralian kid who's like 23,
and so I um and there's a longtime, this is 2020 and like
$12,000 program.
Back then it was a lot, and soI just got and it was a lock-in
contract like by the third month, I was trying to get out of the
payments.
But I felt too bad to like tryand just not pay and all this

(54:46):
sort of shit, and so it was notgood.
But essentially, from thatmoment, I feel a bit gross about
sales calls.
And so even when I'm on thesales call, like I was on a call
with a friend of mine who Ihadn't spoken to for ages, and
they were like can we get on acall?
I'm interested in joiningcohort 10.
And I was like all right, Iwant to catch up with you.
And the end of the call they'relike trying to coax me into

(55:08):
selling them.
They're like so what do youthink?
Do you reckon it'll be a goodprogram?
I'm like I think it could help,but it's up to you, man.
What do you want to do?
And they're like oh well, Ithink it's a good timing.
I'm like it's up to you, man.
If you want to join, we'restarting next week.

(55:30):
If you don't, no hard you at avulnerable time.
I'm just not going to pressureyou.
If you want to join, it's onyou.
I want you to be excited whenyou swipe your credit card, and
so I think there's a lot ofvalue in.
You know, I have all my clientsjoin and our onboarding process
is basically just a big fuckingrev up.
We have all these activitiesthat get people excited, and so
it's just this energy we have inweek one where everyone's

(55:53):
excited, everyone's fuckingpumped, no one has any buyer's
remorse.
It's always like I'm so glad Idid this.
This is awesome.
I'm so excited for the next sixweeks and I think that just I
don't want to, I don't want tosour that because some closer
who's thinking about his 25commission is, you know,
pressuring some 21 year old tojoin time to build when they

(56:14):
really shouldn't be joining likeI've given refunds to people in
the past where I had a kid join.
This was like two years ago now,but he was like 18 and he
joined the first call and he wasasking this question.
I was like how did you get?
How did how did you get here?
How did you end up here?
But clearly he's like got a bitof money, bit of pocket change,
decided to buy the program, andso I ended up giving him a

(56:36):
refund and letting him keep it,because I was like I actually
think this is too like.
You just need to make content.
All my advice to you in thisprogram is just going to be make
more content, and so I don'twant you, you know.

Darren Lee (56:52):
I don, you know, I don't want you, uh, wasting your
money.
Completely agree, man, like ithas to be aligned to you, right,
it has to be aligned to whatyou want to do and the way that
you've created your ecosystem isa unique scenario.
So you need to capitalize onthat and that's why I asked
around the the spectrum, theprice to follow our spectrum.
It's like where you're at theyears you put in, the time
you've put in, you get to playchess the way that you want to
play it.

(57:12):
It's a very lucky position to bein, which is like, yeah, fuck.
Yeah, like, chill, hop on thebike, take a weekend off, chill
out with your dog for a bit,because you've done the hard
yards right.
It's a.
It's a very good position to bein and you did the work to get
that position Now.
I want to ask you about whereyou kind of learned a lot of
this stuff from, like who's beenyour biggest mentor?

(57:33):
Are you like?
in any program, because you havea very well-rounded view on
this, which is cool because youknow you came from a creative
background initially right.

Tom Noske (57:47):
I think I'm just a big fucking nerd, to be honest.
I think I'm just like very Ijust get hyper fixated on things
and so I obsess and I, to behonest, I've done way less
programs.
I always see these people onsocial.
They're like I've spent$200,000 on mentorship.
I'm like should I have donethat?

(58:08):
Maybe I should have done that.
But like I've had some goodcoaches I've worked with, I'm
happy to name them.
I've worked with Zach Kravitz.
Zach was someone who I reallyadmired and back to the example
of people who I think taste issuch a huge thing for trust and
Zach, not only did I reallyrespect how he was doing his

(58:30):
business, so how he was makingmoney, but I really respected
the way he was operating hisbusiness, and so he was someone
who was creating this welcomingenvironment, creating this
amazing vibe.
He had this amazing ability tocreate an aesthetic and a taste
and an experience when youoperate with his brand, and so I
honestly joined.
I was like I just kind of wantto see how this operates behind

(58:51):
the scenes, and so that was avery valuable experience, uh.
And then I've like bought.
You know I bought uh, probablythe one that was the most
pivotal for me was jackbutcher's uh, build once, sell
twice, like again only a cheapcourse, like 299.
But for me, that kind ofunlocked a lot of the early days

(59:11):
back in 2022, like the factthat I even could sell a digital
product, um, uh.
And then, yeah, it's honestlyjust been networking and I've
had people who have, uh, havebeen kind enough to help me
along the way like I've.
I've become quite close withmatt gray.
Matt's been kind enough to tohelp me along the way and have a

(59:32):
few conversations here andthere Nothing crazy.
He's not like mentoring me forfree, but we just chat every now
and again and he's happy tohelp and and so a lot of it has
just been following my curiosity, to be honest with you.
Like I have a problem coming upin the business and so I solve
it, and so what could havehappened a lot faster, I think
is just a byproduct of me kindof, which is why I think it's so

(59:55):
unique, right, like I kind of.
I think there's this problem inour space sometimes, where
everything's become this mirrorof one another, like it's the
selling via the Google Doc, it'sthe inner circle.

Darren Lee (01:00:13):
It's the inner circle.

Tom Noske (01:00:15):
It's the inner circle , it's the masterminds, it's the
same thing, and I think you'renever going to be able to.
You're never going to hit your.
You're just never going tobecome the person you're capable
of becoming.
If you're a mirror of someoneelse and the people that I've
seen blow up and be the mostprolific, it's always when they

(01:00:41):
make this strange.
I don't know what causes it,but this shift into doing
something the way they'resupposed to do it, uh, someone
who I think is blowing up rightnow for really great reasons is
a guy called Tom Youngs.
Tom Youngs is someone that I'veseen recently, who's just.
He's brought out Scale20.
Isn't like you look at thebehind the scenes from the

(01:01:13):
FounderOS masterminds and it'slike the effort his team is
going to to put together anexperience.
I think there's this air of Iguess I think laziness has been
cool over the last couple ofyears and I think that's dying
quickly.
And so back to what we spokeabout before we got on this call
.
It's like I respect effort alot.

(01:01:34):
I think effort is somethingthat I've always kind of really
respected in other people, andso when I see something that's
done to a high level, it cutsthrough, it's like.
It's like a knife throughbutter.
It just it breaks through thenoise, and so, you know, it's
why I'll always put a lot ofeffort into branding or spend a
stupid amount of money on awebsite when I could be selling

(01:01:57):
via google doc.
It's like it's something I'mhappy to do because it cuts it.
It cuts through, you know, andso I don't know.
I I haven't had as many mentorsas you might think, but at the
same time, I've had a lot.
I I love conversations likethis, I love speaking to people.
I think I I had this weirdexperience or revelation a few

(01:02:18):
years ago where I used to thinkI was a bad networker because I
would hear the word network andI'd be like what does that even
mean?
I don't like going to fuckingbusiness events, I don't like
getting on calls with people forthe purpose of networking.
But then I realized I have thisweird habit or not even a weird
habit, but I just have thiscomplete inability to not say
what I'm thinking about someone.

(01:02:38):
And so whenever I'm like what Isaid about Tom Young's or Zach
Kravitz, whenever I thinksomething, I usually let them
know, and that's created theseamazing relationships where I've
gotten to connect with people.
Um, just on a friendship levelthat I think have made has made
such a tremendous difference tomy own business.
Um, just because I've builtsome friendships that are very

(01:03:02):
valuable, dude, I completelyagree, dude, I completely agree.

And I think that was even the feedback people have
with my podcast, where they'relike, oh, do you still need to
be doing this?
And they're like, why are youdoing it?
And I'm like, because I get tomeet people and I get to hang
out with people and I think theworst thing you can do is say
that everyone is your friend.
I do not say that people on mypodcast for my friends, but I've
developed relationships withsome of them and they've become
my friends.
Like I said to you on email, Iwas like, dude, I'll fly to

(01:03:24):
australia, I'll figure, I'llfigure something out.
And I was like I'll figuresomething out because I was.
I was actually going to run mynext mastermind in australia
with matt lakovich and wedecided we're going to do it in
bali instead.
But I was like, oh, like fuckit, like I'll go fly down, I'm
going to fucking london on sundSunday to meet someone.
So I think what's interestingis like you don't need to buy a
program to learn it, you canlearn almost like true osmosis,

(01:03:46):
or by someone's content, Likedude.
When I was fucking super broke,like I was following Justin
Welsh, Matt Gray, Lara a bunchof these people and I would just
watch, I would read their postsand I would just like literally
implement straight away.

Tom Noske (01:03:58):
Or.

I'd interview these people and I would implement
straight away, away, and I thinkthat's kind of how I've
developed relationships withpeople too, which is like, hey,
we had this podcast, I went backto creating more content.
Was around xyz, tom, thank youso much for all the help you
know and it's.
It's like this with or withoutyou energy, you're not actually
trying to get something fromsomeone.
That's the big thing too rightis like I'm just sharing, I'm

(01:04:21):
just being a person, a normalperson, and I think people pick
up on that man.
People really, really do pickup on that right if you, when
you don't need something, youwant something, does that make
sense.

Tom Noske (01:04:30):
It's a big part of 10x easier than 2x, but it's.

It's a beautiful thing, man, because, as, as time
goes on, that builds your brand, your brand has become so much
stronger the people that havebeen associated with your brand
too, or you've associated withother people too.
Um, you don't need to jumpstraight in the deep end,
although sometimes it is good tojust have compression of time
uh, if I wanted to learn xyz.
Of course I would chat tosomeone like, for instance, will

(01:04:55):
brown ran like a one daymastermind in bali and I was
like fuck it, I need to figureout.
Um, it was actually amastermind, uh funnel, we were
running a funnel.
It's not even a funnel it'sjust a mastermind like campaign.
Uh, I had run.
My first mastermind of the yearworked really well but we had
run.
We were running a second onebut it was much higher

(01:05:16):
production like we've had.
Like we had a huge villain.
Everything went to thismastermind.
I asked him two questions atthe start of the morning.
It was a one-day mastermind.
I had both things solved inaround 20 minutes and that was
it I was like, all right, thanks, man cheers.
And then I was in his house onsaturday I was like, oh, that
helped, helped a lot works,thank you, that's it yeah that's
the best, I think, if you cango in trying to solve a specific

(01:05:37):
person, that specific purpose.

Tom Noske (01:05:39):
And then I think there's also like um, there's a
I love comparing online businessor just business.
Online is a redundant term, butI love comparing business to
like age of empires.
You know, you start like an mmoand you open the map and you're
just like a little characterand everything else is black and
invisible and you've got tomove to then figure out what to

(01:06:00):
do next, like do I have to minesome materials, or do I have to
go fight enemies, or do I haveto build a building or whatever
it's like?
Well, the only thing I can donow is just move my character
into the darkness, worryingabout going into someone's
program or whatever it's.

(01:06:21):
Just take a lot of action.
Back to this thing of a lot ofthe urgency you feel, the rush
you feel to be where you want tobe is just impatience.
You'll get there if you takeenough action.
It just might take a little bitlonger than you think it's
going to take.
I also think there's huge valuein.
I think a lot of my energycomes from living in Australia.

(01:06:42):
Like I'm a self material person.
I love cars, I love watches, Ilove nice things, I like the
finer things in life.
But I think the fact that Ilive in australia still means
that I'm not as materialistic asI probably would be if I lived
in a dubai a.

Austin.

Tom Noske (01:07:01):
Texas or one of these places, or Miami, um, because I
just don't, I'm not surroundedby it constantly.

Same in Bali man Very similar in Bali as well, I
don't have shoes, but I don't, Idon't, I don't wear shoes Like
I don't actually have shoes anduh, like it's a reminder, right,
yeah, you can have fancy villashere and so on, like we've a
lot, we've a beautiful home here, but for the most part I'm not.
I don't feel that pull in thatdrive, and that's important for
your prospects too.
I've had people say that to metoo, that they don't buy

(01:07:29):
specific programs from peoplebecause they're based in dubai.

Tom Noske (01:07:32):
Genuinely, yeah yeah, yeah, it has become a bit of a
trope right, it's like the dubaibro course seller, like it's it
.
It is like this undeniablething where you can't your your
environment will impact yourbehavior, and sometimes in a
positive or negative, but at thevery same vein, like I was in

(01:07:52):
new york a few weeks ago andthat place, just I was like fuck
, everything I'm doing, I needto become a billionaire.
Like what have I got to do toown one of these apartments on
fifth avenue?
Like I need to live here.
And so it's yin and yang, right.
Like I think, if I, I think ifI moved to somewhere like new
york, maybe my results would bea hundred times, ten times what

(01:08:14):
they are.
Who knows?
But I, I think it's a, yeah,it's a.
It's a tricky one, thatbalancing act well.

I think for people like you and I who don't just
want to do the business stuff,it's always like an important
reminder.
So one reason why I love tolive in bali and we deliberately
set ourselves up here me and mywife long term was because it
balanced the health andrelationships really well, like
the ultimate flex in bali isbeing in good shape, like 100.
You, dude, you don't have towear shoes or top, or a top in

(01:08:44):
the gym like that's doesn't givehim.
No one cares how much money youmake, right, it's just are you
fit?
Yeah, you're healthy, and areyou approachable?
Just really nice person.
So that's one thing.
But then, at the same time, I,whenever I go to dubai and I
might be in dubai in a coupleweeks again I'm usually there on
my own and, dude, do I work?
Like I will probably besomewhat jet lagged, I'll wake
up super early and then I'lljust end up working all day, all

(01:09:06):
night, because there's nothingelse to do.
It's like, fuck all, that's not, it's nothing really to do.
You know, I'm not going to bein a club, yeah.
And then when I'm in new york,you know those led lights, man,
they don't go off, like theyliterally don't go off, which
affect your sleep 24 7.
So yeah I'm working and then soon.
So 100 agree.
It's we kind of I call it likethe conqueror characteristic.

(01:09:26):
Like you, it is something thatyou can run away.
You can run away from you if youlean into too much, but you
need to have something to pullyou back, I think a small bit,
so that you stay true to what itis why you're doing it.
Another james kemp effect iswhat?
Why are you doing this to beginwith?
Right, everyone's talking aboutscaling and growing.
I was like, why are you doingthis to begin with?

(01:09:47):
Maybe it's because you didn'twant to work a nine to five.
Maybe, for me, I didn't want towork in finance anymore.
Okay, cool, have you achievedthat?
Great, fantastic.
Yeah, we can make someimprovements from here, but Okay
, so last thing I'll say on thisis like I don't know.
I think from James Kemp, whichis what?
What is success?
And also what's success foryour clients?
Because, yes, you have tostripe screenshots and you've

(01:10:07):
made a hundred K and 200 K in amonth, but is that success for
your clients?
Success for your clients couldliterally just be signing up,
being in a community of peoplethat are killers or people that
are on the same journey.
That could be a success forsome people, man, and it opens
up their world.
Success could be their firstpost on on instagram.
So don't look down on microwins that start the cascading

(01:10:27):
compound effect for monumentalwins within their life as well
yeah, no, I love this idea thatthere's multiple different
freedoms.

Tom Noske (01:10:35):
It's like the financial freedom is just one of
the freedoms in life.
It's like having time freedom,having emotional freedom, having
financial freedom.
All of them serve differentpurposes and there's plenty of
people who have financialfreedom but no time freedom.
The only reason they have thefinancial freedom is because
they've built this business thatdominates their life.

(01:10:55):
And so there is this constant,honestly, there's a constant
battle in my own mind because itis like why did you get started
doing this?
What's the point of all of this?
I think I try to remind myselfas much as possible that the
marginal utility of money is tolive a better life.
And so if you're just makingmoney and then just pumping it
into more team, trying to makesystems better or trying to run

(01:11:18):
your business more, or justhaving more time to run your
business, I don't know if that'snecessarily what you got into
it for Now, granted, there aretimes to sprint.
I'm in my own period right nowwhere I'm actually pulling back
on a lot of the other things inmy life, a lot of my training
and stuff, to focus on thebusiness, because I think it's a
make hay while the sun shinessort of period of time, and so

(01:11:39):
there is moments in time forsprints.
But I think you have to remindyourself, like what's the
fucking point, man?
Like what are you trying to dothis for?
And so if you're just thisendless, if you're just on this
endless race for more revenue ormore profit or bigger business
for the sake of it, it's like Idon't know man, like sometimes

(01:12:01):
the best best, my best days arewhere it's just get up in the
morning, go for a walk, havebreakfast at some cafe, go back
glass of wine in the evening,and if I could do that every day
, I'd probably, I'd probably beor do that more days than I do
now.
I'd probably be marginally ornet happier.

And so, yeah, it's hard, it's tricky yeah, man,
it's so interesting me my wifealways say the best moments
we've ever had in a relationshipare just sitting at the side of
the fucking street on like acircle k at a circle k drinking
a 30 cent can of diet coke.
They're like some of the bestmoments of my life, you know,
and we could buy whatever wewant, we could chill whatever we

(01:12:41):
want, but it's never changedyour relationship.
You know, I'm wearing a fuckingseven dollar t-shirt with my
logo printed on it and retiredit away like I don't it's that
we're not doing it for thatpurpose.
Now I would say that the reasonwhy we're doing it is, of
course, the impact.
But then there's two likethere's a pursuit where there's
something that you enjoy, thatyou're good at, and it's kind of
.
There's an element for me whichis like the unmet potential or

(01:13:02):
the unrealized potential or theon, or just the opportunity
right it's like okay, you ofcourse want to get the most out
of something.
It's kind of like dude.
If you were to run high rocks,do high rocks, you could
probably probably do one inthree months time and do maybe
like 70 minutes.
But you probably work for thenext year and do sub 60 but do
you want to do that?
is there much benefit for youdoing it for 10 minutes better.

(01:13:25):
I don't know you're talking.

Tom Noske (01:13:26):
You're talking to someone who fucking almost broke
themselves off to race a 935iron man.
So probably I think I'm thatobsessive.
I think I'm that obsessive thatI would do that kind of thing
like I don't know.
I think I agree with you.
It's hard.
This is honestly a yin and yangin my life where I sometimes ask
myself it's like that Pharrellquote of like he gave up

(01:13:47):
drinking because he had a voicein his head say, do you want
100% or 50%?
And he's like well, I want 100%.
And so then what the fuck areyou doing?
Like, if you want 100%, youcan't act like you're going to
get 50 in terms of his drinkingand the habits and partying and
stuff.
And so I don't know, I agreewith you, Like sometimes it's
like the period of time I'm inright now is a period of time

(01:14:08):
where I've kind of gone.
You know what I want a hundred,If I've got a maximum potential
between now and December 31st2025, I want a hundred percent.
And so that means that I'msacrificing a bit of what we're
talking about in order toachieve that.
But I don't know.
It is like this constant yinand yang for me of like, yeah,

(01:14:30):
what's the point and, honestly,this question is probably the
reason why I haven't gotten intobuilding a big sales team or I
haven't scaled ads as much, or Ihaven't scaled the program to
be this super high ticketprogram.
I think it's trying to.
Again, at the core of it, it'slike maintain lifestyle, make
sure, at the end of the day, Istill have a good life.

And dude, there's literally absolutely nothing
wrong with that.
It's just the only question toask yourself is what are you
optimizing for right?
It's a good mental model.
In a season of life that you'rein, what are you optimizing for
?
It's a good mental model.
In a season of life that you'rein, what are you optimizing for
?
You're building a program now.
Fantastic, in three years timeor five years time, I don't know
, you might have a kid or youmight get married or whatever
that may be, but it's like, whatare you optimizing for in this
window of time and I usuallyactually say that to people that

(01:15:13):
come into our ecosystem becauseit's like right, you know, to
make money online a program forthe most part, to keep it
fucking simple, yeah, we areoptimizing for that.
So, like that's what we focuson.
If you're in that season oflife, yeah, we can help you.
If you're not totally fine,like absolutely not sell the
google doc, walk around, ballet,chill, um, yeah, and I think

(01:15:33):
you can serve your clients thebest then as well, when you
realize, like what, what arethey optimizing for?
Are they in?
a circle of life, what they wantto get out of their nine to
five, and so on, so forth.
It's just a nice way to look atthings because it's like, okay,
cool, we are in this wave andthen things come in waves and so
on, even full context.
Man, like I haven't traveledsince january, so now it's
coming up to june, so I've beenin bali since january, since our

(01:15:55):
last tour.
Yeah, and I was so fried fromthe last podcast tour so I came
back, been building, building,building, done a ton of great
work.
But now I'm going to betraveling for the next two
months.
I will be, you know, recording,but I'll be traveling.
So, in theory, a lot of theactual uh workload I'm doing in
the business or on the businessactually won't be getting done
because I'll be in some studioin like barcelona.

(01:16:17):
And it's okay, because that'sthe next wave that we're going
through, which is front-endmarketing for the most part, if
you want to put it into a bucketif you want to put it into a
bucket.
put it into that bucket.
But it's beautiful man.
Dude, I want to say a big thankyou.
You're a legend.
This is so, so awesome man.
I feel we could keep going forhours.
Would love to do it in person,man, if you want to come on a

(01:16:39):
vacation, finish your nextseason of life and come up to
Bali for a bit.

Tom Noske (01:16:43):
I would love to.
I would love to.
Yeah, the only reason honestly,as much as I talk about freedom
and time, we have everythingmapped out.
Even McKeeley and I's holidayshave them mapped out for the
full next 12 months in advance,just because I think I've tried
to do the float kind of thingand it just didn't work for me

(01:17:03):
and so I I need a calendarthat's locked in.
And so, thank you, mate.
This has been, this has beenawesome pleasure meeting huge.
Thank you, man.

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#298 Tom Noske - How to Turn Your Passion Into a Profitable Business

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#298 Tom Noske - How to Turn Your Passion Into a Profitable Business