#300 Ryan Clogg - He Scaled His Coaching Business from $0 to $70M (Here’s How) - Kickoff Sessions

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Did you ever think you'd make over 70 million from
this business when you started?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We did 72 or 3 or whatever it was technically
through one VSL opt-in funnel.
I know guys who do 15 million amonth in info and they have
completely dedicated funnels fordifferent traffic sources.
We do a bad partnership wherewe spend 1.15 million or
something, make 100k backliteral 1 million dollars
straight cash burn.
You stack all those up, notcool.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
How did you personally?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
like handle.
Our jumps were essentially 100ka month, a million a month and
3 million a month, and thismonth right now is the highest
and we're at four or plus rightnow.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
So let's kick off first thing.
Man, I really appreciate this.
So where I want to start islooking back at where you've
gone now.
Did you ever think you'd makeover 70 million from this
business when you started?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
this specific one.
I mean, like in beginnings, nowand again, so I'm a co-owner,
not a co-founder.
I was like number four or fiveon the team.
Those guys, uh, you know, theystarted it before me the uh
digital marketing co-founderright, there's like the expert
marketer.
I would say that, like in theseinfo coaching businesses, it's
like expert marketer and then atscale, it's like plus an
operator and doesn't necessarilyneed to be three people, but

(01:08):
it's three skill sets, right.
So, um, they had the expert andthe marketer.
Um, and I mean they already hadsomething going on.
They were doing like a lowticket monthly app.
They were trying to build it,like some of these other um
click funnels companies, and Icame in with like building sales
pages, like literally buildingsales pages and like random
click funnels and tech buildsand just random shit for like

(01:28):
two grand every like six weeks,like anything that spit out,
like find a little bit of it,and one of the co-founders would
like, you know, send me somecash, and it was like it's just
fun and I was doing a bunch ofother random stuff at the time
for years, even while this wasstarting to grow.
Um, but yeah, when we changedwe, when we changed it over a
call funnel.
We're like oh, we know, thiscan at least be like a million a
month business.
Um, I model everything basedoff who exists out in the market

(01:50):
already and people were doingone to three a month and we also
weren't that tapped in, if I'mbeing honest, like we were not
that tapped into the space andlike I just knew a couple of
people I bought all the thecourses, I watched all the
youtube videos, so I knew whatpeople were doing like with call
funnels.
Um, but I just was like at thatpoint we were doing info, we
were making 30 40 margin, doing10 million bucks a year.

(02:12):
Once it got like churning andwe're like cool, this is dope.
And there's three of us thatwere partners and we're like all
right, cool.
Like so no, I mean I.
And even when it started to getup into that range and I
started to talk about it outloud, I would look at the
all-time chart and be like, wow,yeah, that really does add up
to 70.
I don't know you know what Imean, because it was an extended
amount of time too.
These guys are like oh, yeah,two years, we've done X amount,

(02:42):
we've done more, but it's beenover years of granted.
It was very light in thebeginning, like as you see on
that chart that's like.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
But yeah, it's funny because, like a lot of the info
businesses, they kind of broscale, hack and cowboy their way
to to it, you know.
So, like how I think this isreally important to frame.
Like, how much of it were youcompletely like, not dialed in
the beginning?
So when you got to a million amonth, right, bare in mind, a
million a month is fucking, it'sa lot of money, right.

(03:08):
How much slippage did you havein the business?
Like, how much margin for errordid you have in the business to
scale up?

Speaker 2 (03:15):
yeah, I mean we were doing.
We were doing phone call theentire time.
We almost never sold direct tocart uh, ever.
So, like a lot of these guyswill do that, but I'm a huge fan
of over the phone.
I think you can have moreslippage.
I think there's more room forerror.
I think that if you get someoneon the phone, you can change
your offer real time.
You can navigate any objectionthey have.
Versus if you send them to asales page.

(03:36):
It's like it's one offer, it'sall the copy that's on page,
it's only the objections thatyou put in place.
It's only like putting it on asales page makes it like
definitive, this is what they'regoing to buy through.
These are the only things youcan have on page and I'm not
good at that.
You know the other co-founderis really good at marketing
sales copy like all of thatworld Um.
So he was much better at that,um.

(03:58):
But yeah, there was tons ofslippage, like even to this day.
I'm like oh yeah, like we knowall these things.
We didn't know then, but Ican't imagine how many more
things we don't know today.
I can't imagine how muchslippage, like the one of the
biggest things.
I just went to another event,whatever two weeks ago, and one
of the biggest things I was like, oh wow, we are just not
squeezing enough ad spend.

(04:24):
And it's like, oh, people alsoemail the list like different
offers and they do this and theyuse a DM setting and then
they'll use differentacquisition models that are
based on this and this, andtheir sales comps are this and
I'm like, oh wow, like there's2%, there's 5%, there's 10% and
these sizes that's like mid tohigh, hundreds of thousands of
dollars when you stack it up amonth Before we move on any
further.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
I have one short question to ask you have you
been enjoying these episodes sofar?
Because, if you have, I wouldtruly appreciate it if you
subscribe to the channel to helpmore business owners grow their
online business today.
Do you think it's about moreinstead of refining, though?
Because if you think about it,like what you have right now, or
we even had at a million amonth or 5 million a month, if

(05:01):
you just refine that and squeezethat versus like opening up,
like another acquisition channel, like how do you think that's?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
what I mean, not even opening more, like right now,
we did 72 or three or whateverit was technically all through
one funnel, technically throughone vsl opt-in funnel and so
like when you're saying, likeback in the day of us doing, uh,
you know, 30, 40 percent more,doing a million a month,
basically, um, or doing amillion a month, um, that was an
info product, so there was nofulfillment costs and it was a

(05:30):
lot of volume, so it was likeanywhere from a thousand to 1500
, like across.
That time we changed the priceand increased it, um, but we
were doing a ton of volumeselling an info product over the
phone.
And he said those economics arecrazy nowadays because, like, if
you told about, you know likethat's a direct to cart product
all day, um, or like a webinarproduct or a long form VSL like

(05:51):
it that is, or an Ascensionproduct even, and we just like
didn't have the wherewithal tounderstand that at the time.
Um, so once we started to rollin the direction, everything
exploded and that's why we thatup.
It's because it couldn't takethe volume anymore after we got
to a certain point.
So we had to roll out moreacquisition models, we had to
have more fronts for theacquisition.
But now it's almost like I feellike I talk about it kind of

(06:14):
publicly a lot, but I'm like,yeah, I want like one core lead
funnel and one core buyer funnel.
It's like the next step.
It's like what For lead funnel?
When I say that, I mean likeVSL opt-in, a direct application
with VSL, something like that.
That's just like lead focused.
And then one that's like a lowticket Ascension offer.
That's a buyer funnel.
So you have buyers that come in.
I'm like we crack two of thoseand we can get to very sizable

(06:39):
numbers, like five to eight amonth.
And then, yes, of course, let'slayer more on, let's have
diversification.
Let on, let's havediversification, let's move that
direction.
But, like right now we havefive or six on the front because
we're like almost testing themall and it's like let's just
optimize, like you're saying,let's just focus on one and get
one to work, is like that.
That's where my frame's at atleast.
So I, yes, I agree, um, andwhat I was saying about the
squeezing it, exactly whatyou're saying.

(06:59):
So not adding more fronts, butlike a very simple example is
like we have this lead funnel,that's the core one, so we send
a ton of traffic to that.
Let's say we get let's just usesimple math let's say we get a
thousand a day leads, just forsimple math.
Those, then, what percentage ofthem come in and get content
every day.
They get contextual uhautomations.
They also get emailed twice aday and they also get reached

(07:21):
out to and like all thesedifferent like spots.
Okay, so, like that all exists.
But one of the things I wantedto this event is like okay,
we're just pushing them to uhbasically consume video content,
maybe some audio content, likethat's it, but, and yes, it's in
different messaging pockets andyes, but what if we sent them?
What if we also had a webinarthat was to the list.
What if we also sent the leadpeople to the buyer funnel

(07:42):
through email?
What if we also sent this andthis and like things like that?
We weren't doing this.
Last week we emailed the listthe low ticket like, as just
like a, like a direct email, andit got, like you know, 30
purchases, which like, and ithas its ascension rate and it
has this thing.
And it's like what if that wasin cadence?
And again, that's only a 1% ora 3% or whatever thing, but like
you stack those up on whatyou're already paying for.

(08:05):
That was us emailing our list,like that we already have.
So it's like those things thencompound because then now more
eyes on that, then the ascensionrate from that.
Then that plugs back Like theyall can play together, but you
can still focus on like one ortwo core things in the front,
right.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
So Dude, I love how, like you've been doing this for
so long, your brain is justalways computing it's like this.
This has become like, so, likeit's a curse of granted
knowledge.
I feel, I I feel like you'vebeen doing this for so long at
such a high level that youalmost like don't realize.
Don't realize it, you know,because for a lot of guys, or
the majority of businesses, willsit way under that million a

(08:43):
month mark.
Right, so let's bring peoplethrough that journey, right?
So you went from you basicallywere at like 20k a month when
you joined, right effectively,and then you brought people up
through the call funnel and thenyou swapped then from that low
ticket like 700 product women'scoaching, bear in mind, this is
the most important part to highticket.

(09:03):
What was it?
What was the kind of buildingblocks from there, from zero to
1 million, 1 million, 2 million.
What did you have to let go of?
Right, because I think that'sthe biggest thing and something
that I personally find as wellwe have to let go of a lot of
beliefs that got us to.
You know, we've hit like 300 K,350 K in a month.
We have to let go of a lot ofthings that you know we used to
do basically yeah, so our jumpswere essentially 100k a month, a

(09:26):
million a month and threemillion a month.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Three was our previous all-time and then you
include the renewal stuff andwhatever that we did and it was
like 3.7.
And then this month right now,is the highest and we're at four
or plus right now.
So, yeah, um, which is great,which I'm, yeah, I'm excited
about, but again, it was a lotof renewal again.
So, new, all I all I'm focusedon is new, which has been a
deterrent in the past because wedon't focus on the LTV side of

(09:50):
things, which is the highestprofit, which is the biggest
margin, which is like all thisstuff Right.
So now we're focused on both.
So like I'm not trying todiscount it, but I also am
really focused on the newbecause of all the things we're
doing marketing and acquisitionand changes and it's kind of
like been the the big focusforever and like I still not
fully cracked but the changesthat were made through there.
So, like you said, we wereselling a low ticket thing, so

(10:11):
like just the economics of whatthe offer were at that time.
So when we initially started,we just like don't know any of
this stuff and it's like soobvious now.
Like, if I look back, I'm like,oh, what could we have done
five years ago?
It's like just crushes me.
But like, initially it was alow ticket so it was selling, uh
, recurring monthly app.
Then we changed over and, uh,you know, co-founder called me
and was like how do we take thisthing to 10 million?

(10:33):
And I was like let's do a callfunnel.
Like we were just shooting theshit.
And I'm like let's do a callfunnel.
We're from this world of wherewe both bought the courses.
I bought another course thatwas on how to do crms and
another one that was likeYouTube ads and I'm buying these
like direct.
By the way, uh, we bought oneof them.
That's not true.
We bought one of them from thecompany, but the other one's
like I'm buying, like he alreadyhad one personally.
Like we're personally buyingthese things because the
business has no cash, um, andit's doing a hundred K a month,

(10:55):
but it's like we're spendingonly to acquire, so it's not
doing a hundred K a month, likeit has no margin, right?
So I'm not even like fully partof the company yet.
And then we move it over to acall funnel and we're selling an
info product that was 500 bucks, then it moves up to a thousand
, then it moves up to 1500.
That's how, just paid throughand optimizing a sales team,

(11:15):
we're taking sales calls in theinitial.
We're ramping all the reps,we're doing the hiring.
I'm doing office hours, an houra day every day, like trying to
teach them the tech because oursales reps were all customers
of the product.
So it's, you know, xyz, demo,um, like all that.
And then going from one tothree was changing the offer to
be one-to-one coaching.
So we just changed the offer tobe like a coaching offer

(11:37):
instead of an info offer.
Um, and just that alone was thebig uptick and we were cruising
and actually had pretty lockedin good margin.
And then everything explodedinto last year, into Q3 of 24,
because acquisition broke.
We hammered that funnel so hard.
We had no backup funnels, wehad no full-on marketing
department.
We were trying to do it throughan agency.

(11:58):
Cpa is rising, agency costs torun.
All of marketing is rising.
Everything was rising at thesame time.
So it started to squeeze and itcost to run.
All of marketing is rising,like everything was rising at
the same time.
So it started to squeeze.
Um, and it was like fine again.
Like between that, a couple ofbad partnerships and whatever
it's like.
We lost millions in CPA,slippage marketing department,
slippage sales team.
What we thought was goodperformance and like wasn't
great performance.

(12:18):
Like it was.
It was getting new clients, butit wasn't like crazy KPIs,
they't like super tactical um.
And then, yeah, cpa marketingspend there and then some bad
partnerships.
We tried to do some things withltv that we just took a bite
out of the app, you know, justripped us like over seven
figures um that we made a dealwith.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
So like yeah, can you ?
Uh, can you walk me through howyou're running the front end?
So like all the ads through thefront end.
So is 100% paid?
Right?
100% of this is paid, you mightas well say yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I pulled a high-ros report the other day and it's
like I was trying to show the,because we're trying to lean
into YouTube organic a littlebit now.
We have so much content.
We have so much content butit's not optimized for like
virality or first click oranything.
So much content but it's notoptimized for like virality or
first click or anything Like youknow, creating outliers, it's
all middle and bottom of funnel.
It's like info, it'seducational, it's like very in

(13:15):
that world, it's customerinterviews, it's like stuff like
that that exists middle andbottom of funnel.
So once someone comes in withan ad, then they look us up or
they see us or they get into oneof our lead flows.
We send them emails twice a daythat are videos from there.
Like the consumption ring isthere, but it doesn't exist in a
way to like new, new leadgeneration, right, um, so yeah,
it's 99.9 paid so how, how thefuck do you ramp that page?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
so, like, how, what are you looking for in?
Like the unique economics?
Because what I love about youand this is what I, the first
thing we met in in london rightwas like you're, you're, you're
a data guy.
Like you're a numbers guy,you're a data guy first, and
then you are, let's do somethingbased on the numbers.
And that was so apparent to me,because that's why what I
really want to allude to youknew how much were the purchases

(14:01):
.
You know what you were spending.
You knew how much you're makingon the back end.
So, with all of this in mind,how, how do you, how do you have
the confidence to ram so muchads on the front end?

Speaker 2 (14:12):
based on the numbers.
So like starting light.
Um, I talked about this theother day but someone xyz, I
know was like, oh yeah, we wantto launch this new one.
I'm like here's the structureof the page, here's the, the
structure of this, and like Ican kind of start to get into
like ideation and like copy modeof like oh, here's the big
thing and here's like the USP,but like, again, that's not my,

(14:32):
that's not my lane.
Like as much.
Like I know structurally how itneeds to look, I know what
pages need to exist, conversionrates, what show rates, what
cash per call rates, what like Ican tell you all that.
But like now, what are thewords on the page?
Like that's not as much.
My world.
Like a little bit, but not asmuch.

(14:53):
So when we did it?
At what timeframe?
I'm trying to think.
So for the I bought two coursesthe one that I had bought and
one that was in the product.
I have a picture on X that it'sa picture of a desk, like a
dining room table almost, and Ihave two lamps with the shades
off of them behind me over herefor my lighting, and it's like a

(15:17):
picture of this giant water jugor whatever.
And it's like bought twocourses and in a weekend we
launched this VSL funnel that wethen ran for.
In three days we launched it.
So I bought the course.
It had the script on how to doit, it had what the page
structure and flow is.
It had how to do all the CRMstuff.
I had set up all the zaps,built all the tech, like did all
that.
And then the other co-founders,like one is the brand face and

(15:39):
like shot the actual VSL, shotthe you page video, did those
things, shot the ads for it.
The other co-founders, likevery good at marketing, so like
was changing the messaging andlike I got the script template,
he adjusted it and we launchedit.
And you launch it at these lowbudgets.
So you launch them at a hundredbucks, 300 bucks, whatever, a
day and then you start to seewhat data comes through.
So like, back to your questionof like, well, how do you get

(16:01):
the confidence to do it?
It's like you have to run it,you have to make your best
judgment on if it makes senseand then you very quickly can
see some of the stats around itand like if you're truly on zero
and cold and new, um, a lot ofyou got like I don't I'm not a
hundred percent of the audiencehere, but like the London guys,
for example, like all that crew,it's very organic.
So when you want, when youlaunch one of these things, you

(16:22):
almost have like puffed up statsbecause the algorithms find
people who have already seen youor consumed your content which
is not cold.
That is not so like.
It's almost like.
I mean, it is better, it'salmost like retargeting for you
guys when you start them up, butit's direct response, versus a
lot of the time it's all contentthat you guys have out there

(16:42):
with some CTAs mixed in, butlike what?
The direct ad about a specificthing going to a page that has
specific button on it, that's todo one thing like that's how
you test it.
So for us, when we did that, itwas, you know, testing at XYZ.
Calls were coming in at like atthat time in life 50 bucks, 80
bucks, something like that andwe're selling them a 500 thing
over the $500 thing over thephone.
And the math worked well evenat those numbers, because it was

(17:06):
so low budget, because thecosts were so low, because they
probably had some level ofwarmth, because we had some
level of organic or had alreadyspent hundreds of thousands of
dollars on a low ticket thingthat just basically broke, even
when you added up everything.
And so now we were going to therange of like, oh cool, this
does 30 to 40 points, and thenwe just started stacking the
price.
But if you don't know yournumbers on things and it's
pretty easy to know for me it'spretty easy to know is if you

(17:29):
just track it off the jump.
It's like how many let's use aVSL opt-in funnel?
It's like how many ops do Ihave?
How many applications do I have?
How many bookings do I have?
How many live bookings do Ihave?
How many in the many do I haveclosed?
And it's like what's your costper across all those?
As your ad spend starts totrickle up and like if you're
selling something that's 20grand, the economics need to be

(17:49):
a lot different than if they'refive grand.
Right, because like your costper call, the swings and what
you can do there, you get a tonof feedback from over the phone.
When you get people live on thephone, you can change the offer.
You can sell them somethingwith 10 coaching calls.
You can sell them somethingwith no coaching calls, you can
sell them.
You can sell them.
I'm going to fly out there andyou can come and stay with me in
Bali for 50 grand or whateverand you offset all your ads.

(18:09):
Like seriously, like that's thebeauty of a call, you can real
time adjust and at scale of roomfor error in a funnel like that
, but yeah, you can real quick.
See, I had someone message methe other day and was like oh, I
got 500 clicks from paid to aDTA funnel.

(18:32):
So headline VSL application andthey had 2 apps and I was like
Okay, fundamentally broken.
You hear these guys talk like3% to 5% is what your conversion
rate on that page should be andit's like there's your true
north.
I know guys who have 30% ofclicks apply from page, which is
insanity and you have a sub 1%or whatever the math is on that.

(18:55):
That is not.
Something is broken how they'recoming to the page.
It may be.
What are your variables?
What does the ad say that getsthem to this page?
Once they get to this page,what does the headline say?
What is the vsl?
What's the consumption of thevsl?
What's your page tracking sayhow many clicks to the
application, how many startedthe application, and then we
know how many filled out theapplication.
Something is broken here, likeso.

(19:20):
Once you have the data, though,you can very easily scale into
it Very easily.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
How are you tracking data?
Is it all, hyros?
Or are you hacking shittogether with spreadsheets?

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Simplest answer just spreadsheets, let's say.
But you're essentially loggingeverything.
You just need to log everything.
That's my view of data as it'sshifted over time and how it
actually works.
You have all your data storedsomewhere that's in a uniform,
consistent way, and then youhave viewers of that data which
is like where you can do thisacross this and this range and

(19:53):
this one versus this one, andall that stuff.
But you like store it all inone place.
So whether that's a sheet thatstores it all in tabs, whether
that's inside hubspot, whetherthat's what.
That's exactly what hyros is.
It's like it just stores allthe backend data and then you
just get to view it in a prettyway and like, oh, last click for
scientific or this versus this,but it's all just like looking
at like that's literally howdata works.
It's like one structured dataset, a database, and then

(20:15):
viewers of that data.
So for for years we only useSheets.
Then we applied Hyros, but likeHyros is for the ad attribution
, not the actual funneleconomics.
So that has now made its wayinto HubSpot.
We're making a whole source oftruth and custom data lake and
doing all that now and thenreporting tools on top of this.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Dude, this is so crazy and I think, again, it's
just such common knowledge toyou as you've built out for so
long.
But I think the organic guyshave a great advantage.
I think when I moved into adsin the past year, things have
just been easier.
And I was laughing when yousaid about when you're selling
high ticket because we just needa couple of the 20ks to close a
month for it all to check out.

(20:56):
Yeah, we literally joke aboutit being like if we just get a
few, like two or three of them,everything will check out.
Yeah, literally, you know, andobviously the ad spend is like
you know, it's basically nothingcompared to what you're doing.
Now I guess we spend a lot ofmarketing on the production of
everything and the episodes andthe videos and YouTube and short

(21:18):
form and the team and designteam and everything.
But that's the way I'm lookingat it, right, because, like we
are our lowest product 6k.
So if we're, if we're completedumbasses and that's why I said
about slippage slippage at theend of the day we can still have
a very profitable month off ofpaid on its own, whereas organic
is still going to be 85 ofthings.
So is your advice there for theorganic guys to just scale the

(21:40):
shit out of it and just learn itbasically organic yeah like as
in you know a lot of.
So all my audience 25, 35 firsttime, second, second time,
business owners, agency infoguys a lot of guys are heavy on
youtube, which I promote, yeah,and their own brand.
They build up that equity.
How I describe it as this?
Actually you'll find it fun.

(22:00):
It's quite interesting.
We have the hot audience, whichis easy to sell sell to right,
it's food, shooting fish in abarrel and then you have the
warm audience and they've coldaudience and your only goal in
organic content is to movepeople from cold into warm and
warm into hot, always becausethe hot like should close all
the time, yeah, like one and twoshould buy, yeah.
So my goal is just to pump theshit out of that.
So the way I think about it,and the way I'm thinking about

(22:21):
it recently, is I just need toget more people into the cold
sphere and then leave them cookin the ecosystem and then
they'll kind of gently move intowarm and then gently move from
warm into hot and then book intheir calls and so on.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, I mean that's we do the same method, it's just
we don't have the organic onthe front, so it costs us more
money to do that same process.
But it we decrease the time.
So, pay for a time, so likewhere you have someone who
organically follows you and doesxyz, then how long it takes

(22:54):
them to then consume morecontent, then push themselves
into warm.
How good is your contentoptimized to push them to warm,
to hot and then to convert,which is get on a phone with you
or on the phone with you orwhatever.
And yeah, you have 98% showrates and 60% close rates, but
like that's not volume.
Yeah, exactly, but like, likeyou said, like, oh, a couple, 20

(23:16):
Ks, yeah, but my belief isaround, for, like I love organic
, I think it makes a ton ofsense is around, like I love
organic, I think it makes a tonof sense.
We just don't have it Like Iwould love to have it, I would
love to have it.
Um, a big thing with organic iswhen or virality happens you
need something that is 24 sevenavailable to purchase, join

(23:37):
happen and like with us with thecall funnel.
Like there's volumerestrictions.
So like if someone comes in andlike if we had an affiliate, or
like a video that just poppedoff and just went crazy viral
and all of a sudden we got athousand applications in a day,
there is nowhere for them tobook because you only have so
much volume.
Like that's why paid is soevergreen and so consistent and

(23:59):
so right If organic you havelike these big waves, like it's
potentially great, but you needsomewhere to like push them into
.
So that's why these guys selldirect to cart offers, like low
ticket, free communities, thatthen like because then you you
capture as much of that aspossible all the time, but then
they're not like it's not oneconversion focused.
It's like you put them in afree group, or they opt in for

(24:21):
this free thing or they pay foryour low ticket or direct to
cart thing that exists and youmake another two grand, five
grand, 10 grand a day, just offthe low ticket or the direct to
cart offer.
And then from there you takethose people and nurture and
consume as buyers or as leadsinside your ecosystem, not on an
external platform, like you useit, whatever, which clearly
also works, but like you own theaudience, more so than them

(24:44):
just being like a subscriber.
You now have their email, younow have their phone number, you
now have their Facebook profilebecause they're in a group,
whatever it is.
Then from there you ascend theminto the high ticket thing,
which is like a lot of yourmargin, a lot of your spot or,
you know, in this case it mightbe.
No, you know there's noadvertising costs, just content.
Uh, you know production costs.
So, yes, I love again, I loveorganic.

(25:07):
I just we have not cracked it.
And same thing with when I lookat like affiliates.
I'm like cool, if I could likebuild in like a fixed CPA model
that was call it a thousanddollars for easy math, like how
do I do that in a way thatmaintains the quality and the
consumption and all these things?
Cause, if I, if I'm like, heyguys, send all these affiliates,
we'll give you a thousand bucksper purchase.

(25:27):
Now, send us traffic.
They will book out our calendarin three hours, like I know
Legion guys that spend like 300grand a day Like they could fill
that in two seconds.
Is the quality there?
Is that our ideal customer?
Is it this?
Is it that like unlikely?
And because we don't have asystem that is built like we
have the low ticket thing, buteven our low ticket then goes to
two different booking widgets,because they book in with a

(25:48):
setter, they book in with aclient.
There's still a volumerestriction that you need to
staff for on the back when youstart to do stuff that's over
the phone.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Are you an agency owner, coach or consultant
looking to scale your onlinebusiness At Vox we help business
owners scale their onlinebusiness with content.
We help them specifically builda high ticket offer, create
content that turns into clients,and also help them with the
sales process to make sure everysingle call that's booked in
your calendar turns into aclient.
If you want to see more aboutexactly how we do this, hit the
first link down below and watcha full free training on how

(26:19):
smart entrepreneurs are buildinga business in 2025.
It's a theory of constraintsissue.
Right, it's like there's alwaysgoing.
It's going to be in in thatorder, I think.
Uh, it's ironic because I'vejust hired a new ads manager now
to to sort out this shit.
Right to to pump a shit on adson the front end to in addition
to the organic.
But what I wanted to ask youwas, when you move from that

(26:39):
part of the cycle to the nextpart, which is a sales side, how
, how did you build and scalelike that sales team?

Speaker 2 (26:46):
because like our sales team, off the rip was
clients of the product.
So we would make a hiring postinside the community of like the
, the paid community, and we'dbe like, hey, income opportunity
, who wants to make money,basically just selling the thing
that you love?
And they, you know, in our,it's, ours, ours is 46 year old

(27:07):
uh, women demo and they werejazzed to do it and it's a
little bit less hours becausetheir moms or grandmas or this
or this or whatever, um, butthey were interested in doing it
and it was all 1099.
So it's like who cares?
Like they can work the hoursthey want to work and all that.
We plug them into the calendars.
Uh, you know, at that time wewereing them ourselves and we
were hosting office hours andteaching them this.

(27:27):
And I was creating Kajabitraining on how to navigate
Because there's a tech.
It's like what's the tech,what's the sales skill, and then
what's the product knowledgecompany, whatever, right, it's
like, roughly speaking, and ColeGordon is the G of this.
So he would tell me there'sprobably 12 different things,
but like, those are my three,like quick buckets.
So they had the productknowledge, the understanding,
the results, even of the exactproduct.

(27:48):
They just need to learn how tolike, use the tech and actually
sell.
So it's like in our brain itwas like that's the easier one,
cause they have such highconviction, they have such high
product knowledge, they have allthese other things.
It's like let's just have demoto demo.
They bought the productthemselves.
They literally got results asthemselves, so why wouldn't they
just be able to sell it?
And that's how we did it.
And we've had hundreds of salesreps at this point, hundreds,

(28:12):
hundreds.
Our last sales rep ID is, Idon't even know, 400 something
maybe, and it's been granted 5plus years.
So we've had issues.
Team has had issues, like we'vebeen through a lot of it.
Um, but that was how weinitially hired for it.
And then now, once we made theshift from info to coaching,
that's when things took a turnto like we need more

(28:34):
professional sales reps.
Uh, we need more.
And also like, cause theconviction shift.
They bought the info product.
They didn't buy the coachingbecause the coach, it wasn't for
sale yet.
So when you start to sell thiscoaching now, all of a sudden
you have this crew of likefantastic people and fantastic
women.
Right, but like they had boughtthis product.
They had sold this product.
Now they're going to sell thisproduct, which is now more of a

(28:54):
sales function, less of aconviction thing, because they
have not also bought this thing,right, right, so the shift for
that?
But there's so many people like, depending on what your offer
is, the market is overflowingwith remote setters, remote
closers, um, the biggest issueis generally like too high level

(29:15):
of aggression, um to to youknow, what offer are you on
right now?
What offer are you on right now?
Cause they jump right now,because they jump, they're
always chasing a new hot, sexything.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Um, but there's some really, really quality people in
the market for sure and I thinkit was interesting I think it
was you that gave me advice onthis when we were hiring two new
closers.
Recently we had the opportunityto hire someone with high
ticket closing background and hewent through all the programs
and another guy who hadcorporate sales background, so
b22B in the trenches, likemulti-shredding type sales, and

(29:47):
we hired both.
Actually we hired both of themand the guy that had a corporate
sales background has stayed onand the other guy we've let go.
He had like a 44% close rate inhis first month.
The other guy had like sixright when they were fully
ramped up, and the reason beingI think there's a few things.
I think the guy from corporatesales, they understand the shit

(30:07):
like phase Cause, like whenyou're in corporate, right, you
have to bite your tongue.
So he was able to sit throughthose lessons and it humbled
them.
People loved him on calls, likegenerally the general
acceptance was that they likedthem.
Funnily enough, the guy'sactually in the room next door
to me and he just got off a calland the woman like was tanking
him at the end of it.
So I don't know, this is thisis like an energy thing.

(30:28):
Right, there is like a bigenergy thing and and also a
connotation right, because, likewhen you were starting and
selling that, basically like lowticket offer, the market
sophistication was verydifferent than what it is now.
Yes, very much.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
So you know it's a different world, exactly what
the market norm is at that point.
I mean, the biggest thing that Iheard like in there is, first
off, just like hiring two people.
I always say that I'm like youneed to hire two for it, because
if you just had think about, ifyou only hired the one, that
was a six percenter and theywere running it and they were

(31:00):
doing it, and all you had tocompare against is, when you
sell, which you are always goingto close higher, so but if your
baseline is then, oh wow, likethis isn't a good offer then, or
like the marketing must bebroken or whatever, because,
like I hire a sales rep and theyonly can close at six percent,
and it's like, but you hired twoand you saw what the real
baseline was, which is like, oh,this one can close 40 and this

(31:21):
one can close six, so it it'slike I need more people like
this.
Or here's the like I hear thatall the time People at a closer
and like, yeah, but they canonly close at 10% and I close at
like 60% and it's like okay,that's a person issue, not a
marketing messaging issue.
Generally speaking, generally.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, man, and I think it goes deeper too with
like all of your team.
I yeah, man, and I think itgoes deeper too with like all of
your team.
I think that's a beautiful partof what you've done is like
you've built such a huge team.
But I think, like sticking onthe sales side again, like how,
how do you, man?
It's crazy.
Like so you had all those repsthat come in and out and some of
them were like moms and shit.
Yeah, how do you get them tolike track their close rate and,
you know, really dial into itlike work with the sales manager

(32:02):
?
Yeah, how did you?
How did you do it?

Speaker 2 (32:05):
we were at that point in time, we were the managers,
um, so we managed them.
Um, me and co-founder would getin the calls, we would host the
huddles, we would do all thatstuff, and we tried to do like
1099 managers.
Like that didn't work.
And then we actually ended up,uh, bringing the top closer in

(32:25):
as a manager or like upgradingthem to a manager, which is like
the number one thing you're notsupposed to do, and he did that
and just did everything on fire, like it was just it was a mess
.
It was a mess.
It was a mess.
Um, so yeah, so not ideal there.
And then we had to have like aculture shift.
And then we had to.
We like lost half the teambecause of it and we had to
rebuild the team.
And this is all when we weremaking that shift from uh,

(32:47):
selling info to selling, uh, thecoaching.
I think coaching, um, so yeah,I mean, the evolution of that
team basically went from there.
So I just want to pull it up.
So, yeah, we're in the 300s,not 400s, we're in the 300s of
reps now, um, like id number,but we have ones that are.
We have one, two, three, four.
We have three of them that arewithin the first, you know, 75

(33:07):
reps.
So like we have like, oh, geezlike we have multi, three, four
year reps that are from that eraof they were customers and then
became sales reps and then alot of the newer ones obviously
are not, but then they a lot ofthe time we'll buy it for
themselves or so sales thingsInteresting man.
Um, I talk about it.

(33:28):
I had a Josh Troy on mine orwhatever and that studio we were
talking about and uh, if I Ikind of was like pretty
objective about this, but I donot think if you're trying to
build a cashflow info coachingbusiness that you've like should

(33:48):
have a sales team internal, Ithink that people should use
these agencies that crush withit, because it's it becomes,
once you're in, once you'reabove 100k a month, once you're
at 250 a month, once you're inthose ranges, like just forget
about it and like that's a superovergeneralization.

(34:09):
But you can hire these agenciesthat all they do is all they do
is their entire focus.
And if you're not like a focussales but like a Cole Gordon,
terrible advice for Cole Gordonright, like he can do this
better himself.
He can do it at a better cost.
He can do it better efficiency.
He can do it with like betteraccount, like everything.
He can do it better.
We are not the him.
So, like, nobody made thisoffer to me back in the day and

(34:32):
I always push people.
I'm like, go to go to Josh and,like you know, do that Like.
But he's one example andthere's multiple of them where
they have dedicated setters,dedicated closers, sales
managers all this stuff for likea specific fee.
So it's for 20% of cashcollected on the front, roughly.
Let's say, um, it is 20%.
I just don't know if it's cashcollected or if it's con.
I think it's contract, uh, Ithink it's same month contract

(34:53):
cash.
So not full contract value, um,which is sometimes different.
But we can just say, first, 30day cash, 20% I think.
But it is like you hear some ofthese guys I was talking to some
of the guys at the event.
I'm like what's your in-housesales team costs?
Like oh, 24%.
I'm like, yeah, exactly what'syour in-house risk cost?
Someone's like, oh, 23% or 28%.
Uh, some of these other guys inthe room are like 15.

(35:14):
I'm like, okay, yeah, but howbig is it?
Because, yeah, you have yourcloser at 10, 10, 99.
Let's say you have a setterthat's three to five, keep going
, keep scaling into this.
And then now, what do you needfor sales ops?
What do you need for a settermanager?
What do you need for playercoaches?
What do you need for a closermanager?
What do you need for all this?
Those comp plans start stackingand unless you're doing enough

(35:34):
volume, it does start to getclose to 20, 22, 25%.
If you don't manage and thecomp plans stack, so like you
can build it in house forcheaper.
You can build it in house for15 points or 17 points or
whatever, but like generallyspeaking, and then you're also
managing the entire team, orthen you hire a manager in place
, then the comp goes up again.
And it's like it becomes thisthing that once you're doing

(35:55):
volume especially if you'reselling a lot of high ticket, um
, depending on how much volumeyou're doing, like you need a
relatively large team, whetherthat's three reps, whether
that's eight reps then you needaround let's say the same Some
people do two to one setter tocloser, um, some people go one
to one, so like if you had fivereps, you'd have 10 setters,
right, because there's so muchlead flow that they can just
push and qualify and do all that.

(36:15):
So you have 15, 20 people.
How big is the rest of yourcompany, five people right, like
it becomes the biggest.
It becomes the biggest part ofyour entire company, which means
head count equals headache atsome level.
So like, like if you're notable to, you have an emotional
week or two weeks which notgonna say it's not gonna happen
with an agency, but like that'syour only cash generation source

(36:35):
, they decide to do this andthis.
Like it's crazy fuck man.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, that that's that's really shifts my
perspective on it.
I actually have a differentperspective on it initially.
Which was my idea was I wasfearful to use an agency because
they didn't really give a shitabout the brand.
They gave a shit about sales,right, so they could say things
or do things that wouldinfluence the sale but may

(37:01):
jeopardize the brand or let megive an example.
You can do that in house too.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
But let me give an example.
So I have a client right nowdoing 7 million a year and we
moved them from an agency toin-house sales teams.
We helped to build a sales teamSetters, closers.
Our thing for a long time hasalways been, you know, setting

(37:23):
off organic content and then theclosings.
We've moved into that with themNow, that with them.
Now, the reason why they wantedto do that is because the sales
agency they were strategicallymoving around their best closer
to the best offers and clientsthey had.
So let's say, if that companywas doing like, let's say, 400k
or 500k a month, they would moveit around and a new guy would

(37:44):
come in.
So this guy would come in superfucking green and they just had
no control.
I think it was around 20 to 25percent in total that they were
giving up for it.
So of course there's pros andcons to absolutely everything,
but that's what made me thinkinitially was like, oh, like it
has to always be in-house.
But you've you've kind ofshifted my perspective on that
as well, which is like ifsomeone can take care of it for
you and they're not going tofuck up the brand, yeah, go

(38:05):
ahead right yeah, because theidea I mean like listen, I'm
here saying this and I meanquick number on this the team's
back is 26, closers 24, so 50plus management.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
What Right, what the fuck?
And like again, and I'm veryclear on the fact that there's
some like and that's a bunch ofnew that haven't even started,
that some need to churn, Likethere's you know, that's not the
net net number of like wherewe're going to land, to be at
these numbers, like just sayingum, but close to.
And so I say that with that, Isay that with W2 entire team,

(38:42):
everyone's employed, everyonehas, you know, base draws,
everyone has 401k and benefit,like I took it to the end.
So like to see the other sideand the other perspective of it.
That's like, listen, if I wasrunning an info coaching,
cashflow, focused business,profit, focus, like just that
type of business, um, I couldsee it being in house and being
lean and keeping, you know, justhaving a 10% and just trying to
like really refine it and justhave like some attraction based

(39:03):
sales.
What can you do?
It's basically what can you dofrom a marketing standpoint
that's organic or paid, thatmake their cash here, that makes
it so it's lean and light andfun and like all that.
But you start to get into likethese volume things when it's
like a lot of iteration.
You really need like true sales, you need some of that stuff.
Like you need your crm baked,you need like all your deals
updated you have 300 deals a daythat you need updated.

(39:24):
Like you need admin and ops andlike like that is real.
So, all to say, if you couldjust focus on marketing and you
could just focus on product andlike Ascension and LTV and all
that and not worry about thispiece at some level, I think
that's a really good trade-offfor very likely what is the same

(39:44):
cost.
Yeah, man Less headache withless, whatever, like and again,
you can play both sides.
I literally live in the land ofthe other side, so like I can
see both.
If I was to do it again, Iwould still do this because of
what we're trying to build.
If I was, when I bet whatever,some info, coaching, cashflow,

(40:05):
biz I very likely will.
Just once you get to a certainrange like yes, you want your
guys in-house.
Like you need to be doing 100k,250k, whatever a lot of time
for these agencies to even takeyou because you need to show the
product market fit.
You need to show that you havelike consistent lead flow.
You need to show that you haveyour economics back out for your
5k, 10k ticket.
Like you need to show thatworks before you're like
deploying this team because theywon't even work with you like

(40:26):
the good guys, like the big guyswon't even work with you until
you're doing those numbers sohow many calls are you booking a
day?

Speaker 1 (40:31):
a lot hundreds but.
But where does it all come from?
So, on the back of the $39fucking ebook, and then the bump
, and then the bump that's verylow volume for us like how do
you so?
Okay, so you've probably 26closers and they're all full
calendars for the most part oh,yeah, we were booked out.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, we overbooked through the weekend on accident,
which is like pretty rare forus because we try not to do that
ever because it's just burningads spent a lot of the time, but
we like aggressively overbookedand you?
you take off saturdays andsundays no no money for it, okay
yeah, but when the volumechanges, that's another thing.
So like another benefit you getof w2 versus 1099, which we
haven't even felt because wehaven't standardized it.

(41:14):
Like there's so manystandardizations around the
sales team that we're changingand rolling out now but like
when you're w2 versus 1099, youcan like mandate schedules and
stricter stuff like that.
When they're 1099, us worldlike you can't do that, like you
can't tell them they havespecific hours, you can't tell
them they have specific things,because that like leans into
employment versus you knowcontract.
So when we wanted to startdoing that, we, you know legally

(41:36):
and because of everything, wewere like okay, cool, it's time
to move them to W2.
They're no longer likegunslingers, it's like here are
the tools and like work when youwant.
It's like we want a moreconsistent cadence.
But another thing around paid islet's say you have 100 open
spots throughout the week.
It's very common to then have50 open spots on Saturday Sunday
or 30 open spots on SaturdaySunday, because sales reps same

(41:59):
way, they want to have theirweekend, they want to do their
thing.
It's a normal person, right.
They want to work a cadence.
So unless you have it like mapto where it's actually 80 or 90
as your throughput and you movethose shifts over into the
weekend.
If you're spending 10k a dayacross this, when it hits friday
, you've been booking 100 callsa day because you're trying to

(42:21):
get the efficiency.
And then you're trying to book100 call a day and now all of a
sudden you book out the entireweekend on friday and you're
burning cash on saturday intosunday, when now they can book
into Monday, tuesday, thetimeframe they're booked out as
longer, so they're less likelyto show.
Like it's this whole economicsthing of like where do you need
to be?
And that is nice, the beauty ofpaid, because you can kind of
throttle it but like it's verydifficult to have your ad

(42:43):
budgets here and then here andthen here and then here on a
weekly basis, like verydifficult.
So you want to optimize forwhat's the number through?
Or what other ways can you getbookings on the calendar or not?
So that's what you're saying,like what are their funnels,
what are their emails to thecurrent list, what are their
setter paths, what are theirbuyer funnels?
What other things can you do tolike maintain that percentage
booking?
So we have like a Google scriptthat reads how many calendar

(43:05):
availabilities are 30 days outday day.
So, like I can tell you on whattoday today is july 21st I can
tell you how many openings, openspots, I have.
On august 19th wait, hold on.
So you booked that far out no, Ionly booked 48 hours out, but I
want to know availability so wecan throttle spend interesting,

(43:26):
okay.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
And then, because obviously there's hundreds of
calls being booked, is all ofyour triaging done with AI or
it's done manually?
Manually, yeah, how do weManually?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
So we have setters yeah, so setters confirm.
So there's this whole flow oflike Jeremy Haynes talks about
back-end sales systems.
So we have what's on the thankyou page, we have what emails go
out.
We have what content.
We have what ads do they gethit with inside the booking
window.
They can only book 48 hours out.
Um, but we have a setter teamthat double dial voicemail text.
Whatever tries to reach, thatreaches them like instant, like

(44:01):
within sub four minutes.
As soon as possible, they fireinto slack channel, they claim
them, they dial them and theyconfirm the call.
And that alone is like bink onyour show.
Rates huge, yeah, huge.
Because they talk to them, theydial them and they confirm the
call.
And that alone is like bink onyour show.
Rates huge, yeah, huge.
Because they talk to them, theyqualify them, but they also
will remove them from thecalendar.
If one they don't confirm ortwo they're not a good fit,
they'll remove them becausethat's what we've had to do now

(44:22):
with paid.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
As a result, we're getting a lot of bookings, but
now they're not hitting confirmso we were just assuming that if
they don't hit, confirm, andthat's the first message we hit
them with if they don't hitconfirm, we're just assuming
they're not going to show up,yeah I think ravi talks about
that which is like if they, ifthey hit, confirm, there's like
a 90 chance they'll show up orsome shit.
And then if they, then if theywatch the, the following vsl you

(44:44):
send them, then there's like itincreases the close rate
basically by 50 or something Ihave exact stats for you.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
You want to know some exact stats.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
And this is the thing right, because the difference
between I can just, you know,talk from my own experience the
difference between, like usdoing 100k and us doing 300k is
these small details, so I can'timagine the impact on the same
volume on the same volume.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
If you're doing 100 right here, yeah you start.
That's what I was sayingearlier is like you get some
three percent lift here, a fivepercent lift here at 12 lift
here and whatever these spots.
And the earlier you get thoselifts, the more right, because
if you get a five percent changeon your opt-in page, that is,
whatever the volume, uh, morevaluable than five percent on
your close rate.

(45:26):
Yeah, right, because thethroughput goes like like this
right, like the earlier, it's aleverage thing, right, it's like
the earlier you can make thatlittle tweak, the more it makes
its way to the back end, versusif you just didn't make it until
the tail end, then it's likethink versus this.
So if you can make thoseadjustments because you're
playing with all this stuff, solike here's exact numbers for

(45:47):
this month.
I have double screen thinggoing on here.
So over here it's how manyconfirmed bookings?
So how many setters dialed andactually confirmed them, not
claimed them?
They claim 100%.
How many did they confirm?
Of the ones they confirmed?
They had an 83% show rate monthto date, from cold, what?

(46:07):
From marketing bookings only.
So the marketing booking bucketis 82% show rate, but they only
claimed 60% of the bookings.
I'm sorry, they only confirmed60% of the bookings they claimed
, right, so they, so 40% of themdidn't even answer, didn't even
respond back after they madethe booking.
So now I have to work backwardsand go okay, what is broken in

(46:29):
marketing to make it so?
40% of so, if I'm getting 100bookings, 40 of them are
canceling.
They're not responding.
They're whatever.
Because why?
What did they try to apply forand book for that as soon as
they booked?
Now they don't want to.
Did they Google something?
Is there something on the thankyou page that is completely
different than what they thoughtthat they were applying, right?
Like where is the mental shift?
Where's the frame break on whythey applied and booked, versus

(46:52):
once they've booked, that nowthey don't want to respond and
you're going to have yourwhatever 5%, 10% that are just
like shopper or like whatever.
They are right where they'rejust not going to, but like
that's a bigger percent.
So we're like what's wrong withthat no-transcript?

(47:12):
And it was like think it waslike oh, there's another 10%,
like oh, there's another 10% andlike some of these simple
things.
And like we had rolled out allthose things on thank you page
based on XYZ belief and it wascorrect for that belief or that
theory and what we're trying todo.
We're like, oh, it would makesense if we change this to this
and like just making that shiftwas like this jump.

(47:32):
And that was a week and a halfago, so it's like, yeah, so
crazy.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
It's always a small changes.
It's always a small changes,man.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah, it's like the fundamental thing.
And then once you crack thefundamental thing, the
fundamental offer, thefundamental whatever, it's like
now how do you get throughputthrough it?
How do you optimize around,cause, like even what you said
earlier, um, the, they're notshowing, they're not whatever,
right In that realm.
It's like the, the,everything's a funnel,
everything's a funnel.
It's like you have thesedifferent points and it's like
okay, wait a minute.

(48:03):
So it's the throughput throughthat funnel.
If you had the most qualifiedperson ever coming through, sure
, generally speaking, your costsare going to go up because you
have this application that's 30questions, or like kicks out
everyone if they're under thesemetrics or whatever.
But like would that throughputjust be higher?
Could you have a smaller salesteam, could you have two reps,

(48:23):
because you have 100 bookings aday right now, but like could
you just have 60 bookings a day,but almost all of them show and
they're the exact ICP andquality.
Like that's the game you haveto start to play.
But are those of those 40%, ifyou had a better sales team or
if you had a whatever, could youclose out of that range more
because they're better salesreps or are they just not the
ICP.
So like what's the core thing?

(48:44):
And then what are theoptimizations to get 2%, 5%, 10%
?
But if you haven't cracked thecore thing, which is where most
of these guys are when they'rebeginner offers not good enough,
the uh, how they're displayingor showing the offer isn't good
enough, how they arecommunicating it in the VSL,
their King tech is broken onsomething like.
There's so many of these things.
That's why I'm always likestart low budget, start low

(49:04):
budgets, cause like shit willbreak your data comes in.
Now obviously you don't knowyour numbers.
Like you can't scale into notknowing your numbers.
Like fix your numbers, like allthat stuff.
So like start small and testand test and test.
Not like overnight, cool, I'mgonna spend three grand a day in
budgets or work with one ofthese guys that have done it and
they generally take percent, sothey take whatever.
But like once they crack it,you're like oh, and I'm kind of

(49:25):
back and forth on that, becauseonce you do that, it's like what
do you leave them and then youjust took all their stuff.
Like people play that gamedifferently.
But I don't know, I don'treally play that game.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
But dude, I think an observation or lesson I'm
learning right now is like Ijust need more fucking volume.
Yes, like you know, as like wehave the team, we have a great
with great product, get greatresults of great testimonials.
We just need to ship morevolume, and that's what we're
doing with our new uh ads agency.
Uh, but we've had a few, as yousay, like tech issues.

(49:54):
Uh, this is dumb shit, right,it's always dumb shit just
always just it's just such dumbshit, but like, yeah, at the end
of the day, I just need to stopbeing a bit of a princess and
just ramp this shit out of thespend because, like all of this
stuff is actually in place,there's this setter calling
thing.
I need to do, we do we discuss?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
we're based, obviously, international, it's
whatsapp triaging um, it's like80 effective yeah, I mean like
again, like our market's all us,so we don't touch whatsapp.
But like when I was doing thisstuff and joining uh iman's
thing consulting quantum, nowlike that was, uh he was
reaching out to me in whatsappand like I literally like I had
it on my, my phone and I waslike saw it and I was like what
is this?
Cause I literally had nocommunication on WhatsApp.

(50:31):
And like then I I was one ofthe people who I wanted the
offer enough I understood enoughthat when I then saw that, I
was like okay, cool, I'll justchange where I communicate.
But like, if you're doingvolume and you're doing this,
like you want to play to wherethey are, so like me number or

(50:52):
whatever, like probably wouldhave been better for them to
reach out to me on sms, probablylike iMessage, right, but
iMessage again, much differentthan green bubble sms, that land
of like what all theautomations and tools use
interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
I have no idea about that, right yeah, when iMessage,
you get.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
You get blue text.
So like if I get like uh, if Iget sms they come in green right
.
So like if I go to texas back,it get like a.
If I get SMS, they come ingreen Right.
So like if I go to Texas back,it's like a green bubble.
That like shows, like that.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Right, and then like versus iMessage shows like when
someone's typing and like cansend this and that and like you
can go back and forth.
So like iMessage is like morereal of a person.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
So, people, it's more like a parcel, yeah, and like
you can go back and forth.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
So like iMessage is like more real of a person, so
people, yeah.
So like that's this whole othersoftware game and you want
another lift and like this otherthing is like people have
softwares now that send bluemessages and or people get their
entire sales team iPhones likeand now I'm talking us market a
lot, but like that's a wholeanother game, but that's another
just five or ten or thirtypercent lift.
We rolled it out and we got twoand a half times the show rate
I'm sorry, not two and a halftimes show rate, two and a half

(51:53):
times the response rate, whichthen had the throughput further.
Because now, if you're gettingresponses this early in the
funnel, how many now more ofthem come through and book Right
.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
So it's like oh, bro, when you're running these calls
, the sales calls like likerespectfully, like the women
you're selling to are like 46year old, like kind of desperate
housewives, right.
So like how do they know what asales call is like, fully
transparent?
Do they know?
Do they know like they'regetting in for like a 45 minute

(52:24):
session?
Yes, they don't.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
So like the framing of ours is not like oh, they
don't necessarily sometimes.
So like the framing of ours isnot like oh, like you'll see the
guys who do, and I like it alot honestly but like you'll do
it where it's like um, how do Iframe this?
But bait and switch or someshit.
Yeah, we don't bait and switch,but there's like guys who do
the.
Here's exactly what my offer is.
Uh, like um, dan, daniel, um, I, daniel, um I'm blanking, I

(52:52):
don't know how to say the lastname, but like he'll do it where
it's like here's the VSL isbasically just like a sales
script or like a walkthrough oflike what the product is.
Here's the exact offering,here's how much it costs, here's
this and this.
Now, like book, a call below,here all the offer, benefit.
Like here's all this stuff andit's such a good offer that he
can just use it as the marketing.
So it'd be like literally aloom of like here's the doc,
here's what's included, here'swhat you're buying, click here

(53:13):
to apply, and then they knowthat they're applying to
literally pay for this thing andyou're like sales reps, cashier
, right, like at mass volume orlike B2C.
That generally doesn't workunless it's so good of an offer
that it makes sense.
If you're just trying to sellsomeone direct, so you have to
shift the framing.
It's like there's aconsultation.
This is like me seeing ifyou're a good fit for our

(53:34):
program.
Even like, yes, we talked aboutthe program, but it's more
about like, is this a good fitfor you?
Or, you know, would it work foryou?
Um, let's do a consultation,let's do some discovery, let's
like, figure out some things.
Uh, a lot session thing camefrom was like let me see if we
can help you.
Let me see, let me hear aboutwhat your problems are.
Let me give you this value Ifyou show up to the call, like,

(53:56):
oh hey, if you show up to thecall, you're going to get this
and this and this and thisTakeaway is direct from the call
, whether you buy anything ornot, right?
So ours is more in that worldthan the other camp of like,
here's exactly what you'reapplying for buying and doing
right now, which is going tohave, generally speaking, a much
higher call close rate, muchhigher.
They have all the education,they have all the information,

(54:18):
they know how much it costs.
Like, what objection are theygoing to come?
You didn't see that it was 25grand.
You literally applied on a page.
You clicked on the end of theapplication.
Hi, I know that literallypeople do this on the end of
their application.
I know that I'm applying forthis and this I will show for my
call, and I understand thatthis is a heavy financial
investment.
Check the box.
You're going to tell me thatperson who shows up for the call
isn't much more educated, muchmore ready to make a purchasing

(54:40):
decision than the other.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
That's kind of what we do.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
I would say I love that they all work, they all
work.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
It's obviously a lot less volume, right, uh.
But what I mean is like if weget 10 qualified calls a day,
like that's like very, very good, right, like very, very good
for us.
Um, but the form, bro, like theform is getting into stanford
and the reason being is becauseour client success managers it
was because we, like you know,fucked up our own thing in the
beginning like this is like lastyear our client success

(55:11):
managers were taking the calls,so the more we'd sign, the less
time we'd have, and the moretime we'd have, less time we'd
have with the less calls wecould take.
So it had to be very screwedlike a very tight one, and now
that we have like properclosures in place, it can be a
little bit more open.
I'm just thinking now, if youlook at ravi's right, like ravi
has like fucking four questions.
It's like will you show up howmuch money you're making?
How can I help you?
that's literally it yeah he'slike are you ready to go?

(55:32):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
ravi's stuff and then , yeah, I mean his all then is
lead scoring, it's confirming,it's, there's the post stuff
that happens.
And again, now almost I justdid a video with him and just
put it on my channel last weekand he was talking about how
they're doing size and it'salmost exclusive.
I think it's exclusivelyorganic.
I'm sure he does.
I mean, for a long time I knowhe did a lot of paid um, but

(55:56):
like all the stuff he pushesright now, no, he does do paid.
He does do paid a little bitright now, um, but he'll send
those.
He.
One of his ads is a screenshotof high-ros dashboard.
I'm like only people who knowhigh-ros know what that is and
literally the entire thing onlike last click or first click
or whatever it is, is likeYouTube video, youtube organic,
youtube organic, youtube organic.
And he's showing that so manyof his high tickets like 8K, 16k

(56:18):
, 18k are all coming from hisYouTube organic so he sends them
to.
Last I looked but he sends themto a DTA funnel.
So headline VSL application onpage testimonial wall.
They apply to a DTA funnel.
So headline VSL application onpage testimonial wall.
They apply through they book onthe phone call.
They have come from organic,like I love a DTA funnel for
organic, I think it makes a tonof sense.
It allows them to have moreconsumption if they want.

(56:39):
It allows you to pitch theoffer specific on what they're
applying for inside the videoright, versus trying to send
them through some other thing orsome full opt-in funnel that
you need for cold because theyneed all the consumption they
can't apply.
They have to go through alllike jump through these hoops
there versus organic.
The assumption is they have XYZconsumption already.
They're already 80% of the waythrough.
Now they're clicking in forwhatever the offer is, and then

(57:03):
you're briefing them on what theoffer is and apply below, like
that's the methodology around it.
And then, yes, of course youcan be like oh, by the way, if
you just want two sales reps andwant to do 10 calls a day, like
, but they're crazy, qualified,amazing.
Now turning on ads all of asudden tomorrow to cold, true
cold, not people have seen yourface, which is not going to be

(57:24):
in the beginning.
Generally, usually with thealgorithms, but like, or with
targeting or whatever you wantto call it.
But trying to run paid directto that exact page, generally
speaking, is not going to work.
They don't have the consumption, they don't have the frame,
they don't have any of thatstuff.
And now all of a sudden, you'regoing to ramp them to this page
, the apply buttons right there.

(57:44):
They can instantly apply.
They don't even have to watchthe video above you have no idea
if they've watched anythingprior and now you're just going
to want them to apply.
Like the framing of it'sdifferent, the consumption
levels of a different, thefriction is too low, like
there's too many of these thingsfor someone who's cold, who has
no idea which who you aregenerally levels of awareness
right like levels of awarenessof your audience.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
What, what do they know of you?
Because I know that, like theway ravi structures it, I had a
podcast when I'm on.
This was like he has like everyone of his links for every one
of his youtube videos alltracked and so on, and then it
is going to that straightlanding page and then straight
to book from there.
At what point would you saylike you can over track data or

(58:26):
would you always over emphasizeit?

Speaker 2 (58:28):
just curious from an observation perspective like
you're doing too much yeah, likeI'll give it a given example.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
So our new ad agency guy, he was kind of saying like
we could calm down a small biton tracking fucking every source
from everything, just becauselike we'll have a meltdown in
the beginning ourselvespersonally.
But then if you look at likeravi, like every single video I
would, would not agree with that?
In what way?
Sorry?

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I mean just like, foundationally speaking, like I
don't know why you wouldn't Like, of course, at some level, like
there's too many data pointsand too many like because you're
tracking data so that you canmake better decisions, plain and
simple.
So yeah, if you have 5,000touch points and all this stuff
and like it's not telling you astory or you can't make a
decision based on it, like, yeah, but if it's automated, tracked

(59:15):
, sit in there, like why wouldyou not store the data?
Because you can't go back andstore that data.
So my opinion on it is store asmuch as possible, Just
understand.
What are you making decisionsbased on?
What are the core metricsyou're actually focused on?
Because you could literallytrack.
Let's say you have 100 YouTubevideos.
You could have 100 trackinglinks.
But you want 100 tracking linksbecause if you don't, and then

(59:36):
all of a sudden you get allthese bookings, you're like
where are they coming from?
And you don't know because youdidn't set it up for what, why
would you not if you alreadyhave the awareness of like, oh,
I need to track these things, oroh, this should be set up?
Same way that when I say like,if you're running paid a lot of
the time.
I know guys who, specifically, Iknow guys who do 15 million a
month in info, or it's like 12to 15 million a month in info

(59:56):
coaching, and they havecompletely dedicated funnels for
different traffic sources.
So like, not so okay.
Imagine this you have one DTAfunnel Okay, you're running
organic at and you're trackinghigh roast or whatever, all your
different links.
You know which YouTube videothey came from, okay, but
they're all going to one lander.
Now you're going to implementpaid First off.

(01:00:17):
I would say, have a differentone for paid right, cause you
want to be able to know that itcame from paid.
You can do UTMs, you can passit through the form, you can do
all this stuff, sure, but, likeagain, very likely you're going
to want different context,different consumption, different
something with paid versusorganic.
Now, to take it a step further,when you have this paid one, I
know guys who run Facebook,YouTube, whatever, and those

(01:00:39):
will have different funnels,entirely the whole thing.
So they'll have a differentlanding page, they'll have a
different application page,they'll have a different booking
page, they'll have a differenteverything for Google versus
meta, versus whatever, becauseat scale, that tracking
conflicts so much, which iscrazy well explain how it
conflicts because it'll passback to different.

(01:01:00):
It'll pass back to both oh,because you're using the same
page as coming again so thepixel data gets skewed where it
thinks it's google versus metaversus whatever, and like again.
These are like.
These are like scale problems,not launch, not beginner
problems, but like that's a realthing, to where, if they're
coming in, or they hit thisfunnel and then this funnel and
then this funnel, which one isit tracking?

(01:01:23):
yeah right and like oh, hyrosjust solves it by just sending
whatever, and it's like yes andno, but like it wouldn't even
conflict if they were on theirown, dedicated because they only
did hit this or they only didhit this, and those are unique
to themselves and I guess ifpeople listening who aren't
fucking making 70 milliondollars like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
The simple track for this is like you can just use
different booking links, likefor iClose.
We just have one we have?
We have youtube linkedininstagram.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Get on with it for now you know, yeah, but now
imagine if you want to go a stepfurther or earlier, and you
wanted it for the applicationand you wanted it for the lead
and you wanted it for thewhatever, but 100%.
Right now we have four or fivecore booking links that are
tracked, like you're saying,that are tracked differently.
We have a DQ versus a normalone.

(01:02:09):
So we still will acceptbookings that are disqualified
because we want the volume andbecause they still do close.
Um, that are disqualifiedbecause our financial qualifier
is not like tried and true, likeif it's like somebody who's
like oh, I only accept clientswho are making over 100k a month
, right, like that's not ourworld.
So we'll have people that wouldland, that aren't making 100k

(01:02:29):
bucket, that'll still close forus and that's like just an
example.
Um, but we don't fire the pixelon that, so it goes through a
different booking link, it goesthrough different pages.
They don't have any scripts onpage, they don't fire a facebook
or any events like any of thatstuff and we route them fuck
question for you on that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
So a lot of our clients you know, like their
their fitness peoplerelationships, a lot of
relationship clients, um, andjust like they're they're
fitness people relationships, alot of relationship clients.
And just for context, I don'tknow how much you know about our
business, like, but we'rehelping them grow their business
with content, organic.
And then we've had to heavilytrain them on sales because we
were growing the shit out oftheir accounts and helping them,
whether it's done for you, donewith you.

(01:03:06):
But the biggest thing waspeople couldn't close the door,
let alone a six k pay for it, sowe had to teach them sales.
It was a huge component of it.
So there's content sales and Iasked that because a big issue a
lot of people have in the kindof personal development health
space is that financialqualification question is how do
we say this elegantly to notscare away people?

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
because you can tell it's huge and b2c how do you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
how do you do that delicately?
I'll just give you anobservation.
The way that we do it for oursis like obviously we have a
current revenue, future revenue,but then we also say like, look
, we're looking for how much didthey've available to invest?
What's our capital requirements?
Because we're trying to fitthem with the best product yeah,
so ours.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Yeah, so how I would do that, or how we're doing this
, at least, and then how itapply it to.
That is, how much have youinvested in your relate?
How much have you invested totry and fix your relationship in
the past?
How much have you invested thusfar in trying to solve this
relationship?
problem zero one thousand, oneto five thousand, five to 20, 20

(01:04:12):
plus.
Like what's the number?
Like what have you paid intherapy?
What have you paid to othercoaches?
What have you whatever?
Because the first thing you'regoing to get is the people who
are in the X, you know whatever.
Those people are, generallyspeaking, like qualified right,
like they have the directfinancial means.
That's what I was saying,though the zero to one Ks might
be someone who, like they're inthe biggest pain point ever

(01:04:34):
because they've never even closeto solve this and they can
still afford it.
But the people who have alreadyspent tens of thousands or
whatever, like a way, way higherpercentage of those people are
already going to have the means.
So, like it's like a, it's a.
It's like a back-ended way tofigure out the question, instead
of being like how much money doyou make?
How much is in your checkingaccount?
What is this and this?
That's one world of how to doit.

(01:04:54):
The other world of how to do itis just soft credit pulls.
So you get name, email, phonenumber, whether it's on your opt
, your application, yourwhatever.
Then you use a tool Lead Fi isa good one.
There's two or three of themand it pulls their soft, pulls
their credit API.
Three seconds hits your CRM andthen you can either route them
based on it or you can just havethe information for when your
sales reps talk.
And now in your CRM you havehow much access to borrowing

(01:05:17):
they can get through a BNPL.
You have what was their income.
You have what is their.
All that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
That's not like known elsewhere in other countries,
as far as I know.
So as long as you, have.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
So I guess I guess maybe I don't know if that's
worldwide, I mean definitelybased on like, based on these
other things I don't think it isworldwide dude.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I'm fully transparent , or, unless I've been living,
it's a definite thing aroundhere I don't, we don't use it
because our ticket's not highenough.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
So I haven't used it because it doesn't make sense.
But like anybody I know thatsells something that's over 10K
generally uses it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
So it's like a credit score.
You can check your credit scoreeffectively.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Yeah, you're basically pulling it from the
credit bureaus and it's like howmuch?
What was their income last year?
Basically, what is their likerating, what is their this, this
, this, and then you can routethem based on that.
You can completely DQ peoplebased on it.
But, like that also runs intoan issue sometimes if it's like
your spouse, like you know, haspeople single file or this or
this.
It's like you know, the wifesays that she may, or on paper,

(01:06:18):
makes like 30 grand, but, likeyou know, the family income is
500.
Like you know, there's stillissues in the data, but it's
cleaner than a subjective.
How much have you invested inthe past?
But that one works for us a lot.
So, like the math for that,we'll then route people based on
that two top reps as well.
So, like people who answer thehigher numbers, go to the top
reps because they're the highestlikelihood to close.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Would you?
I have so many questions, dude,but would you, even on that
specifically, is there any scopefor asking them like what they
actually do right in, likelooking at?

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
not for our offer so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
So how do you know when to cancel them?
Like, how are they unqualified?

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
they based on the financial qualifier directly.
That's like the only direct onewe have right now.
Uh, that'll actually like justautomatically dq them um, but
then dq one, still land on thecalendar, so we still take all
the calls.
The only time you're going totake someone off the calendar is
if they don't confirm, if theydon't answer would you not have
a question that says like youknow, investing carries x amount

(01:07:22):
of x amount of weight.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Whatever I have the resources, I can get the
resources.
I do not have the resources.
Do you have a question likethat?

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
we used to in the og days, and then we ended up
yanking it and like, again, weplay more of a volume game.
Um, we play more interesting,but again not to say that's the
right way to do it.
Like even when we're talkingabout in your model, like I was
like, oh, have a 7 to 12 minutevideo or whatever, that explains
what the offer is exactly,talks about how much it costs,
triple, confirms them in theapplication that they understand

(01:07:51):
the cost, and you get 10 callsa day, but you close eight of
them.
That's just a different model.
Like they both work.
They both work, but like think,you gotta think.
Like the entire funnel scope.
So it's like if you're payingfor ads, this is where costs are
right.
You're paying for eyeballs, soyour cost is here, and then it's
just a division problem all theway back.

(01:08:11):
So it's like now how many ofthose people opt in?
Okay, if it's 20% divided by0.2, now what the cost per click
was or whatever.
Now it's like now you have youropt-in cost or your lead cost,
and then what percentage ofthose people then apply?
And it's 30% divided by 0.3.
And it's like now it's this iswhat your cost is per app and
you start to go down this thingall the way to what is your cost
per sale.
It's the only thing thatdirectly, directly, directly

(01:08:32):
really matters.
Like, of course, there's 19other metrics you can look at,
but like what's your cost persale?
So if you have a 20 K thing ora five K thing or a one K thing,
like the economics of what thiscan be changes right and what
you can.
So if you have the whole framingand the messaging congruent
with you're applying for thisspecific program, here's exactly

(01:08:53):
what this offer is, exactlywhat this is.
That's like Hormozy's wholemodel is like if you have a
better offer, you get moreclicks for the same eyeballs.
You get more opt-ins for thesame clicks.
You get more booked calls forthe same opt-in.
You know what I mean.
Like everything goes up becausethe offer is better and more in
alignment.
So it's like if I'm like, oh,this whole thing's free, this is
free, this is free, you get allthis amazing free stuff and all

(01:09:22):
of a sudden, now it's paid,it's like like incongruent,
incongruent, but like you haveto thread that line on.
How do you do volume but alsounderstand that like's like
here's all this free shit youget.
But then if you want you know,personalization, accountability
done for you, like all thesepieces done for you, like that's
where you start to go unpaid oryou just consume all the free
stuff fuck man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
This is, yeah, this is so interesting.
It's just a complete differentschool of thought.
You know it really, from what?

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
I'm, and neither are right or they're both right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Well, if you think about it right, like how much
money you've made, the marginsyou have, yeah, I've talked
about this in public.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
But like the margins are not good right now.
Someone made a video and waslike, oh, on stage I said 10%
and it's like not necessarilytrue, but like when we were,
because we got so big with teamsize and because we're all paid,
it's a big, it eats the PNL alot, a lot, a lot, a lot.
So like when we were doing infoonly, we didn't have
fulfillment costs and the marginwas really.

(01:10:19):
Or like the CPA was really goodand we had no fulfillment cost.
So it's like piece of the PNLpretty tight and good, piece of
the PNL damn near non-existent.
Right Like there was no directfulfillment cost and then the
margin was good in this land andwe also had everyone 1099
because they were justgunslinging sales reps that
worked whenever they want anddid whatever they want.
So like they were classified asthat again margin saver.
So like in that land.
Yes, it was like 30, 40 points.
Once we started to scale intointo the coaching, it was still

(01:10:42):
around like that 30 ish.
And then when things started tobreak, it was like all of us or
I guess, margin more so uh, itwas going like this and going
like cool.
Now it's 25.
Now it's 20.
Now it's like 15.
We've made this huge partnershiperror.
We did all these things and,like we got railed last year
Cause we just didn't know, wedidn't know we aggressively
ramped into everything and hadthis big vanity metric number of
oh cool, we did 30 last yearbut we technically made more

(01:11:03):
dollars in profit but margintook a big dive as, like a
percentage took a big dive.
Now, when we were trying to eatout of that and like get back to
normal, we like guttedeverything, only doing a million
and a half a month.
We have a massive team.
We have only ad spend that we,we only have that we can
generate clients right now,cause we don't have an organic
engine.
So you add those two upoverhead plus all the spend,

(01:11:24):
it's like we're breaking evenbasically at a million and a
half Now that we're likewhatever up to 3 million it
making money and then now thatwe're in renewal season, plus
this, plus this, like so we haveltv back end money and then we
also have, you know, cpa comingdown and we're getting more
volume, so it overtakes theoverhead.
Now it's starting to make, likeyou know, we're at four right
now, like it's making solidmoney.
Like again, like five, seven,eight, ten are like the targets.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
I want to be at 30 plus in order to scale so again,
I always have 100 questionswhen you talk because you, you
say so much, things are sovaluable.
Do you think that, like themodel you have right now checks
out to get you to like 10million a month?
Yes, so what is the constraintof you getting to there?
What's actually the reason whyyou can't?

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
right now sales is the number one thing.
So the conversion like theleaky bucket that exists there,
um to where, if you get 100bookings a day, how many of
those should close it's notbacking out.
So that's like a team structure.
We just got a new chief ofsales.
That started last monday, soseven days ago.
That is a whale in the space.
Um, so like full belief overthere.
How long does that take toimplement?

(01:12:30):
30 days, 90, 90 days, whatever?
Like that needs to be fleshedout and, in the interim, making
money throughout it.
Obviously, once that is ready,then it's availability and then
it's marketing making sure itcan fill their calendars
consistently with qualifiedpeople.
Right now marketing does nothave its own income generation
bucket, like it doesn't selldirect to cart, it's literally
just generating bookings, so itcan't make its own money.

(01:12:58):
So, like, once sales is ready,marketing can fill it and then,
once that, I bucket those asacquisition.
Once those live over here inacquisition, my entire goal is
to go live in product retention,renewal.
What else can we sell them?
And I have big plans over thereon how that is going to work.
And that is like the crazymargin that's you're selling to
your customer base now, that'syou're continuing to sell them
more things.
You're selling them otherthings like I have big plans
over there but I just didn'twant to lose focus of, because
if this like didn't work, thewhole company doesn't work and

(01:13:21):
do so I have an acquisition.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Then focus on ltv for us is how I've been looking at
it sorry, and you touch on thislightly though, but what was the
reason for a breaking?
Like I know you had, like thepartnership issues and stuff
like this, but like no, no,partnership was fine at that
point it was more so around.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Partnership was fine.
If I can give praise right now,public whatever to like the
co-founders who built this, likeagain, and like all the praise,
like they are product marketfit.
They were all the initial likeoh my god, I remember we went.
I met them in person for thefirst time after working for
months in bali, flew out there,met them in bali, had a way yeah
, they had a um.
They were out there for probablyfour or five months and then,

(01:13:57):
would you know, bop to singapore, um.
But they invited me out and Ihad been doing like page builds
and random stuff for threemonths, six months, somewhere in
that range, and just worked,worked digitally never met in
person before and uh, invited meout.
I flew out and I stayed withthem for like a month out there
and then COVID hit and then Iflew back and zipped out like
right when it hit, so it waswhatever.
That was like 2020.

(01:14:18):
And it was all low ticket game.
We did that.
But I literally remembersitting in there and like the uh
co-founder brand face all thatshoot.
I mean they literally recordedlike nine iterations of a VSL
and hundreds of ads from likemorning to night, like they are
grinders.
They are like they are whatmade this created.

(01:14:38):
It came up with the name, theideation, the product market fit
, all that stuff.
So like rock on there.
What happened later, wheneverything started to do its
thing and then took off and wasdoing you know three million a
month and up into the rightbeing 15 things honestly, if I
could be honest with you butlike everything was leaking,
everything was breaking at theseams.

(01:14:59):
Marketing, cpa was increasing.
We had a very lean marketingteam and an agency.
So the agency is like trying todo X Y Z things, trying to do X
Y Z things and all on the paidside.
So they're doing all the paid,all the creative, like all the
media buying and all thecreative, and they're 13% of
something I had spent.
We're spending a million bucksa month.
We're paying them 130 grand amonth to run this shit and CPA
is going like this.
So like it's costing more toacquire a customer and we're

(01:15:22):
paying these guys this hugedollar value.
So it's like not good and all.
In the end, it was because wewere ramming it into this one
acquisition funnel, which wasthis one opt-in funnel that
couldn't take more.
It could, like it needed to becooled down and run at lower
budgets and have otheracquisition methods, and we
didn't have them because wedidn't have the wherewithal, we
didn't have the understanding,we didn't have the whatever.
So we're ramming it into here.

(01:15:42):
We also kind of have our footoff the pedal, cause we're like
this is great, who cares?
Like we weren't taking it asseriously.
Then you bop over into theproduct side and product has
always been really good.
Product has always been brandquality, brand quality, all that
stuff.
But it was like fulfillment ofthe contract.
So it was like you signed upfor a year and us to get you
this result, and like we'regoing to gung ho and do it and

(01:16:03):
client wins, channel fires off.
But it wasn't framed in a waythat this is like year forever
or like having anything else tosell them or anything like that.
So we didn't have to sell them.
It was just more of the same,and even the more of the same
wasn't optimized.
Coaches don't want to sell, sowe didn't have a backend sales
team.
We didn't have other offers.
We didn't have any of thatstuff.
So it's like you stack those ontop of each other.
Where LTV is coming down, thecost is going up.

(01:16:32):
We shift everyone to W2 to bethis big business.
Now costs go up again.
It's like we've we do a badpartnership where we spend 1.15
million or something.
Make a hundred K back, literal$1 million.
Burn straight cash burn.
Like you stack all those up.
Not cool, couldn't fillcalendars.
Now fire the marketing thing,try and hire a new one.
Like it was a shit show comingout of like Q3 or coming, yeah,
roughly out of Q3.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Of like q3 or coming, yeah, roughly out of q3.
So like a right, like twomonths from now of last year and
dude, how do you, how did youpersonally like handle this?

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
I, my world of this and like connection to this?
We this was an info coachingcash flow business for a long
time.
The focus was that it was weall have other interests.
There's so much horsepower thatalmost like too many chefs in
the kitchen sometimes of likethe different partners and the
different players and key peoplein the company.
It's like we have to do thesebig numbers for this to even be
exciting for us, because there'sso we're like, so like I'm

(01:17:27):
interested in this over here,other founders interested in
this over here.
Oh, it's making a bunch ofmoney, people like, but their
feet kick back.
Like the leadership level, likewhere we were sitting with
things.
Who's on the team?
How are they incentivized, likeall of that?
So when it started to do that,we already had all the cash in
the checking, we already had allthis stuff, but like it was

(01:17:48):
just slowly pay for itself,dwindle slowly.
So we had like this reframe setup who's going to drive this?
How is it going to be?
Like XYZ way, my involvementactually increased, as you can
tell.
My involvement then increasedin XYZ way and other people kind
of like stepped a little totheir world and their role, like
, okay, I'll own this, oh, I'llown this, I'll own this.

(01:18:10):
And we're like let's take thisinto a massive business so that
none of us have this like, oh, Iwish I was going to do this
other thing.
Or I wish like I could make somuch more money over here or
somewhere else or doing this.
We're like let's do it all hereor here, and I talk about this
like I'm going to continue to dothis info coaching stuff.
Do this Because itsupplementally in supplement

(01:18:31):
helps the main business.
When I go to these events, whenI talk to other people in info
coaching, when I hear you talkabout stuff like that, I'm like,
oh, what's an interesting offerwe could have.
I'm not going to go play overin software or real estate or
something, but I'm going to havethe info coaching core thing

(01:18:52):
and then I'm going to have themain info coaching business.
That's going to be massive andboth of those tied together is
like fulfilling an interest,fulfilling a network, fulfilling
and financial in all those ways.
So now it's like let's sprint.
So like in that time it waskind of like gray, I was trying
to kind of figure it out.
I was moving, I was like doingall this other stuff, I was like
it'll be okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
And then we're like let's do this and now fast
forward fuck and like evenyourself personally, when things
are going really badly like howdid you?

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
I made videos.
I want to one day I'll do this.
You look at the stripe chartand it's like 1.45, 1.5, 1.55,
like whatever, and I startedmaking those daily videos.
Then I have videos on thechannel where I'm like oh yeah,
we lost 30 grand today, or Ithink it was 30 grand over two
days.
We lost 15 G's.
We basically spent like I don'teven remember the exact math,

(01:19:39):
but let's say we spent 60 grand.
We made back like 35 G's, liketrue cash, which we have never
been that bad and low, ever,ever, ever, like it's one thing
if you're getting like one X rowas.
It's another thing if you'reliterally losing money at like
the size we're at and the stuff.
Like it was not good, um, but Iwas making videos every day
throughout that Cause.
I was like I understand whatneeds to happen.
Even today, it's like I knowwhat needs to happen and now

(01:20:01):
it's just like execution.
And, of course, there's stuffthat I don't understand or stuff
that'll break, or like I'm very, very aware that, like I don't
know everything and like we, Ijust know from what we've been
through and like the pieces oflike what the next, what needs
to happen right now, and then wecan worry about the next
problem, but, like, right now,this thing can be solved for.
So, yeah, I literally havevideos that are hey, we lost 30

(01:20:22):
grand today or in two days.
And then you know, we did it,we had six.
Yeah, I don't know if I sharedin that chat, but we had like a
600k day, like yeah, how do youstill maintain your fitness
yourself?

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
through this?
Because, like, obviously youcan work forever, right?
Yeah, man, because like youcould.
Obviously there's so much shitgoing on that you could spend
all your day on this days in thesales problem, all day in the
fucking content problem, in a hrproblem, but then you've
obviously maintained like a goodstandard of living.
Like you're fit, you're healthy, like young, looking Like
that's.
It's a very unique positionthat you're in, right, like how

(01:20:57):
have you fucking balancedeverything?

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Um, again, there's a lot of horsepower in the team so
I can sit here at this day, uh,at this desk and work 16 hours
a day and like, oh, I'm in thisand I'm in this and I'm in this,
and like I did that like when Iwas doing the youtube videos
and the and main co, and likethe side like try and do all
that.
Like I was like, oh, I'm atthis desk 16 hours a day, like
that's my inefficiency, myinability to delegate work on

(01:21:21):
the main thing, focus.
All that stuff, like I'm notsaying that I was actually
properly doing that, um is thefirst thing.
So you're almost like steppingon people's toes and like
micromanaging and getting in theway when you're doing that at
like where we're at with teamsize and stuff, with the
personal health and whateverthing.
I seriously I'm at this deskprobably 90 over 90% of my day,

(01:21:43):
no matter, like for sure.
Um, it's just like whatinterests me and like I am
honestly actively trying tofigure out other things that I
can like do a little differently.
Because, because, seriously,like it's like it's probably not
the most efficient.
I'm like very clear that it'sprobably not.
It's not the right way to do it, um, because I'm not working on
like these crazy needle like Iknow the needle moving things in
current state, like what Ithink they are and like they

(01:22:04):
need to be executed on, but atsome level, like I can only kind
of give the opinion on it andnot directly do it, or like
build out these.
Even when I do that, dropthings in channels, it's like
annoying, like I need to havethem go into a project flow.
What's the priority?
They need to work on this first, then this first.
Like they already have allthese funnels I'm talking about.
Hey, squeeze this random thingover here that I know will be a
one percent lift, but like chill, like I'm, like it almost

(01:22:26):
annoys team.
And then literal physical.
Uh, I stopped partying a yearand a half, two years ago.
Like I'm done on that a hundredpercent.
Like that was a big part of mylife.
That was when I would stopworking, I would just go party,
um, and I stopped doing that.
So, like, health becomesinstantly 15 times easier when
you do that.
And then I forever have alwaysgone to the gym, every single
day, always.

(01:22:46):
So just lift heavy shit, justgo to like, like dude, I was
just playing a fitness onlyforever, like it's plenty to
lift heavy stuff and do that.
I.
Once I got back here, um, therewas a bigger, nicer, like
lifting style gym.
I joined that for the firsttime that I actually joined like
a real gym like that.
But yeah, seven days a week Ido that.
Now I'm trying to do cardiobecause back when I lived
somewhere warm which I don'tright now and I will soon again

(01:23:09):
um, I would go on walks a lotand like consume a lot of like
audio, either podcast or audibleand stuff.
I would walk five to ten likeall like big miles a day and get
all these ideas and get cardioin.
And now I don't do that at all.
I never leave.
So I'm like I need to startlike running or doing something.
So just, I literally boughtrunning shoes yesterday or two
days ago where do you live?
uh, I'm in midwest, in mich in,uh, in michigan right now, where

(01:23:31):
I'm from, um, but I justbecause when I did the puerto
rico thing for the last threeyears, so when I was done with
that I was like what's theeasiest next, whatever family,
friends, girlfriend, things likelet's go back there.
But then I lived through winterand lived through winter like it
was like a terrible thing, butlike when I lived here during a
winter and like it's just not myspeed speed, like I just I like
my son, I like my stuff, Idon't, I don't need to be here,

(01:23:53):
like I can fly into here and dothe family stuff and the friend
stuff and do all that.
So I'll go somewhere warm inthe States next.
So a Florida and Arizona, texas, something.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
So you think you're not going to stay in Puerto Rico
, cause I kind?

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
of.
I already pulled that plug.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
That's funny.
You say that because that likepuerto rico to two guys in
europe is like dubai right, likea lot of my friends went to
dubai and then they're all likeout of it.
Yeah, and it was interestingbecause I had that decision to
make about two years ago and Iwas like, because I'm married,
right, and I was like my wifewas like I'm not fucking going
there, she's not going to stayin a fucking high rose building,
and then that made me thinkabout.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
I was like well, I, I also don't want to do that
forever and all of my friendshave moved like I would say, 90
of them have left yeahinteresting yeah, when we went
to london, um, our media buyingguy, um is a legend and he knows
a bunch of people out in thatin that world and he introduced

(01:24:49):
us to uh, tyler newman.
And tyler newman is a legendand he's a real estate and he
does like all this stuff inLondon like super cool, nice guy
.
We hung out with him a coupleof times while we were there for
like two days and uh, he wastalking about that.
He's like all of my friendshave since, like that were here,
that were London, that werewhatever, have gone to move to

(01:25:09):
Dubai, it's like kind ofdwindled because those people
have now all moved.
So for him and for like peoplelike that, like you almost
double whammy, get the benefits.
Like of course you lose out onthe things that you have in your
home state, country, location,whatever, but like if all your
friends are out there and it'slike this money making capital

(01:25:29):
in terms of and what you keepand and like true, the taxation,
like all of that stuff.
Like maybe it does make sensefor the PR thing.
It's kind of like a it's it'sdifferent, it's it's different.
So it's like I didn't do a greatjob of like networking.
I'm like very intro.
I want to sit at my desk and domy thing no-transcript, have

(01:25:59):
like a frame.
I didn't have like a missionand people are down there for
money, right, like yes, it hasbeautiful weather, yes, it has
beautiful stuff, but likemajority of time like they're
down there for the money, um,which also brings out me
included, like an interestingtype of person.
So I didn't network well enough.
When I was down there, I had acouple core friends that was
like cool and we'd basicallyjust party together and like

(01:26:21):
that was it and we'd work orwe'd like go.
You know, everyone works 12hours a day and then connects
every other weekend or somethingand it's a casino or this or
it's this and like just a badera for me, honestly, and like
just for money.
That's where you take it down tolike that was my comparison
with the london thing and theseguys moving to dubai.
Like they have their friendsthere and they're making money
and they're doing this stuff.
Like that's a little bitdifferent than like just doing

(01:26:42):
it for money.
And if you're just doing it formoney, there's a ton of guys
who have been there and thenhave moved and have talked about
this.
There's a ton of guys who havedone xyz, where it's like at
some level to save 30 points orwhatever.
25, 30 points.
Yes, you could like look at itas like a sacrifice which is not
even sacrifice.
Beautiful place, it's beautifulthis.
But like the time that, becauseyou got to be there over half

(01:27:04):
the year, like all that stuffstraight off to just like living
here and just making more moneyand just being close by
proximity and networking andbeing able to go to all the
events and do all the stuff youwant to do, like it's just kind
of like you're.
A lot of people will say thisexact.
It's like you're like you makemoney so you can have freedom
and instead you're reducing yourfreedom to have more money.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
And it's like the math equation is broken such a
good point, dude so, and alsothe person that you become as a
result of doing that.
I'll finish up on this note.
I remember seeing a video fromcharlie morgan which was like if
you save an extra milliondollars for being in dubai and
you spend that million dollarson like cars and watches you may
as well just spend that moneyon like the tax and then work

(01:27:41):
harder and become a betterperson.
Yes, like what you're spendingthe money on is fucking bullshit
right, I met them.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
I met some great people when I was like a couple,
like there are super cool, coolbusiness people, there's
families down there, there'slike a lot of that.
So, like I definitely don'twant to be like, oh, it's like
that.
It's different than what I'veseen of Dubai, where it's like a
little bit more like everyone'sgot the crazy cars and the
watches and whatever.
Like it's sure, it's kind oflike, kind of, but it really is
like not that same in that way.

(01:28:09):
Um, so there are great peopledown there, but it is you're
making a decision to do that.
My whole thing was like, oh,I'll do it for three years, I'll
crush it, I'll, whatever.
And instead, for three years,business was breaking.
We weren't fully focused on it.
I wasn't fully focused.
I was being an idiot, I waspartying, I wasn't in a good
place in my personal life, likemy existence.

(01:28:30):
It was like come back, be abetter person, stop being an
idiot.
You know, get over that.
Focus on the business, takethis business to a new level.
Do these other things?
Focus on this one thing.
Like all of those things allhappened at the same time.
So just for that, like I'meternal grateful for like the
decision to do that.
But if you want to do athree-year sprint and keep 90%
your cash, 95 of your cash, likethere's a model where that

(01:28:53):
makes sense, yeah, and it didmake sense for me at the time
because I would have been I was25 to 20 or 24 to 27 or whatever
, like I was if I would havehammered it like it would have
been great investment for threeyears, young enough, all that.
Now it's like if I did it, I'm28 right now.
I'd be like 28 or 29 to 30something and like I just don't
know that I'm willing to makethat type of move when you're 28

(01:29:15):
, that's crazy, I'm old in thegame you're not.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
You're not that old man.
I'm 29, I'm old in the game 28.
Well, dude, I want to say a big, big thank you to you.
I feel like we could do fuckinganother three hours.
Let's run another one.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Let's run another one I think I like how you were
talking about that and I thinkwe only got a third of the way
in because you were marketing,then it was sales and like
fundamentals the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
But really it is like we could talk all day about of
course, of course, man, sales,marketing, then product
fulfillment, then ascension,then that, of course, yeah and I
think, I think, to be honest,like I'll be going back to
America soon anyway, right, so,whether it's going to be East
coast, new York, miami, just fordoing a shit ton of recordings
towards the end of the year,maybe actually um, that will be

(01:30:00):
awesome, dude, but I want to saya big thank you.
You're an absolute fuckinglegend.
I'm very grateful that I've met.

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#300 Ryan Clogg - He Scaled His Coaching Business from $0 to $70M (Here’s How)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#300 Ryan Clogg - He Scaled His Coaching Business from $0 to $70M (Here’s How)