October 3, 2025 • 25 mins
Ever watched your child’s face twist with confusion? Up at night worrying about gaslighting and how to protect your child from the exact dynamics you experienced?
We’re tackling the quiet damage of gaslighting in high-conflict co-parenting and sharing the exact words you can use to steady your kid without badmouthing your ex or dragging them into the middle.
We start with validation on steroids. You’ll learn simple, easy to remember phrases that meet your child where they are, “I can see why that feels confusing,” “I’m glad you told me” and grounding strategies.
Then you'll learn how to build the muscle that manipulation tries to weaken: a child’s trust in their own perception. Through open-ended prompts and gentle reality-checks, we show how to help kids hold two stories without losing their center, and why this skill protects them in friendships, school, and future relationships.
From there, we set clean boundaries that keep kids out of adult logistics and blame. You’ll hear how to avoid using your child as a messenger, when to share brief factual context about safety or court decisions, and how to correct misinformation without turning your kitchen into a courtroom.
For moms who want more, we point to our High Conflict Communication Bootcamp for Moms concise, self-paced training with scripts, strategies, and a printable workbook so you always know what to say and how to say it. If this helped, tap follow, leave a quick review, and share it with a mom who could use a steadier week.
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Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Kids First CoParenting System: NOW a MEMBERSHIP!!! If you are co-parenting with a narcissist, dealing with a manipulative ex, or feeling overwhelmed by high-conflict dynamics, you are not alone. These resources are designed to help you protect your child’s emotional health and take back control of your co-parenting experience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Welcome to the Kids First Co-Parenting Podcast, the
podcast for smart, intentional,millennial moms raising
resilient kids after separationand divorce.
I'm Dr.
Carolyn Royster, a childpsychologist, coach, and a mom.
After thousands of therapy hourswith kids caught in the middle
of high conflict households, I'mhere to help moms like you do it
(00:29):
differently.
From peaceful co-parenting tototal chaos, I've got you.
Here we talk boundaries,regulation, and how to raise a
great kid, even if your ex isbeyond difficult.
We blend science with real life,and as always, keep focus where
it matters on raising greatkids.
This is Kids First Co-Parenting.
(00:54):
Welcome back to another episodeof the Kids First Co-Parenting
Podcast.
I'm so happy you're here.
In today's episode, we'retalking about how to protect
your kids from gaslighting.
Gaslighting is one of the mostdamaging dynamics that I see as
a co-parenting expert and coachin high-conflict co-parenting
(01:18):
because it really confuses kidsabout what's real and who they
can trust.
If you have not listened to ourprevious episode, I'll link it
in the show notes.
But you really should go backand listen to where this term
comes from, what it means, whatit isn't, because there is a
(01:39):
little bit of an overuse of thisterm.
It is important to have a goodunderstanding of what we're
actually talking about here.
Because this episode gets veryinto the nitty-gritty of okay, I
I understand what it is, Doc.
I understand how we got here.
I know how to identify it.
(02:00):
I don't really know exactly whatto do.
Okay.
I don't know how to protect mykid.
The the really tricky thing thatI see very often is that moms
get kind of stuck in whatthey've been told, and is very
good advice that they shouldn'ttalk badly about their ex.
(02:22):
And so it becomes well, how do Icorrect this with my kid without
calling my ex a liar?
Or how do I say, no, honey, he'smanipulating you, which you
wouldn't say either of thosethings.
And so what happens is that momstend to not say anything.
(02:42):
And that also causes problems.
Gaslighting is not somethingthat you can just not respond
to.
I'm sorry, but it's not.
There's a lot of reason forthat, but the main one is that
kids that are being gaslit, kidsthat are experiencing emotional
invalidation, have a very hardtime.
(03:02):
We know this.
We've seen this.
The research is very clear.
Again, if you'd like to learn alittle bit more about that, go
back and listen to the lastepisode where I really talk
through that research onemotional invalidation as well
as how it affects kids and howit puts them into a real loyalty
(03:23):
bind that they struggle.
They struggle with.
Unfortunately, it's a verycommon thing.
What makes this even harder formoms to navigate is that it's
really often very subtle and ittakes a long time to effectively
gaslight someone out ofbelieving what they know to be
(03:45):
true.
It tends to be more of a watereroding a stone rather than uh a
flood.
When a difficult ex or co-parentis just outright manipulating or
is just talking shit about you,you're that's gonna feel more
like a flood.
It's like, okay, well, that wasobviously out of line.
(04:06):
But what happens withgaslighting is that it tends to
be a little bit more subtle.
It's like, well, maybe they justforgot, or you know, he's not
very emotionally in tune.
Like perhaps he just didn't knowhow to respond when you were
upset.
It is important to kind of knowwhat it is so that you can help
your child and prepare them andyourself for these
(04:31):
conversations.
If you've ever opened a messageon your co-parenting app from
your ex and felt your stomachdrop, you are far from alone, my
friend.
High conflict co-parenting playsby a completely different set of
rules.
And if you keep trying to justbe reasonable, you're going to
keep feeling blindsided.
(04:51):
This is exactly why I createdthe High Conflict Communication
Bootcamp for Moms.
It's a short, self-paced,three-day training that will
teach you exactly what to say,how to respond to toxic or
manipulative messages, and howto keep your child out of the
middle.
You'll get scripts, strategies,and a printable workbook you can
use right away.
(05:12):
And it's only$19.
You can grab your spot byfollowing the link in the show
notes, or go directly tolearnwithlittlehouse.com slash
bootcamp and start today.
That's learnwithlittlehouse.comslash bootcamp and start today.
Protect your piece, protect yourchild, and stop letting someone
(05:32):
else control the energy.
So let's dive in.
We're going to talk about threestrategies today that you can
use to protect your kid fromgaslighting.
And really the whole point is toavoid putting them in the middle
or overwhelming them with adultconversations or adult topics.
(05:55):
Number one, the place I want youto start, the place I always
want you to start as a trainedchild psychologist is validation
and grounding.
I often refer to this insidekids first, when I teach on this
topic, when I write about it, Italk a lot about validation on
(06:15):
steroids.
You know to validate your child.
You know that it's important toacknowledge, to recognize, and
to attune to their emotionalexperience.
We know this is importantbecause this is how kids learn
what emotions are, what they'renot, how to manage them, how it
feels in their body, how to gettheir needs met, all that good
(06:37):
stuff.
It's just really, really good,guys.
And you got to keep doing it.
Validation is so important.
You know this.
I know this.
In terms of gaslighting, one ofthe best tools you can use is to
simply validate what your childis experiencing and that their
(06:57):
emotions and their perceptionsof that event are real.
When they come home confused,when they come home questioning,
when they approach you and theyask you a really off-the-wall
question, and you're like, wheredid that come from?
The first step is always tovalidate their experiences and
(07:18):
to validate their feelings.
What does that look like?
It looks like I can see why thisfeels confusing.
An example would be Dad says youlied about the divorce.
What you are saying is not true.
Dad says you lied about the copscoming that night.
I was too little, I was asleep,I don't remember.
He says you lied about it.
(07:40):
Again, this is a little bit moreovert than kind of the more
subtle gaslighting, but it'sstill a good example for us to
talk about.
How you would validate that isyou would start by saying
something like, I can see whythat feels confusing.
I I understand why you arecurious about this.
(08:04):
Or something along the lines of,it makes a lot of sense to me
that you'd have a lot offeelings about hearing different
stories.
And then reinforcing thatthey're talking to you about it.
So something like, I always wantto hear what you think.
It's always okay to talk to meabout your feelings.
(08:24):
It's always okay to ask yourquestions.
I I want to hear it.
Okay.
So you're saying, not only isthis yes, confusing.
Yes, you are hearing twodifferent stories.
I am acknowledging that.
But you're going to then say,it's good that you brought it to
(08:45):
me.
I'm happy to listen.
I want to hear it.
Why?
Because we want to know if thisis happening.
We want to know if thatexperience is happening for your
child.
And we want to position you as aperson they can talk to about
it.
Why?
Because you're a safe adult thatwants to help them and cares
about their feelings.
(09:05):
The second piece that I reallywant you to hold on to is you're
going to start a process whichcan be very gradual and takes a
long time of teaching your childto trust in their own reality
and their own intuition andtheir own emotional experience.
(09:28):
Outside of the co-parentingworld, outside of this high
conflict parallel parentingworld, this is important.
We want to raise kids that canstand in their truth, can stand
in their values, know who theyare, and know and trust
(09:48):
themselves.
I get kind of caught up on alittle feminist soapbox
sometimes, but women and girlsin particular are often taught
to not trust their intuition orto not trust what they're seeing
and observing.
No, he wasn't leering at you.
He was just, you know, curiousabout the tree behind you.
(10:12):
Or I'm sure that guy wasn'tfollowing you for any reason
other than he was walking thesame way.
That might be true, but if yourintuition is telling you like
something's not right here, Iwant to raise girls that trust
that and listen to that.
Okay.
Boys alternately, again, not toget too gendery, but boys
(10:32):
alternately are often gaslit outof the experience that it's okay
for them to have feelings.
Don't cry about that.
It's not worth your tears.
Or you shouldn't be so upsetabout this.
You shouldn't be so sad aboutthat.
When we talk to our children ingeneral, in that way, we teach
(10:52):
them to not trust what data iscoming to them, whether that be
feelings, whether that be theenvironment, whether that be
their experience.
But we don't want that for kids.
It causes a lot of problems asthey grow up.
If you're told that your angeris not valid, if you're told
your sadness is not valid, ifyou're told your fear is not
(11:13):
valid, then you learn to nottrust it.
And you learn that the cues thatyou are developing and picking
up from the environment are notto be trusted.
And eventually that translatesto I can't be trusted, my
experience can't be trusted.
And then we have real fertileground for things like anxiety,
(11:36):
depression, um, insecure,unhealthy relationships, being
easily manipulated.
It's it's not something we wantto encourage with our children.
So when someone is chipping awayat that confidence in what they
know to be true, you want tohelp your cut your kids to know
(12:00):
and stand in what theyexperienced, heard, or felt and
reinforce that that matters.
So a great example is maybethey're sad because dad missed
an event and you hear your kidssay, Well, he said he never
promised he would come to mygame.
(12:22):
He wasn't sure.
And you're like, hmm, that'sinteresting because just a
little while ago you weretelling me that he was for sure
going to be there, and he hadtold you all that.
And like in your head, you'rekind of thinking this what you
might say is something like,huh.
I I'm hearing that that's whathe said after the game.
What is it that you remember?
(12:43):
I mean, I trust your memory too.
And sometimes grown-ups rememberthings differently, sometimes we
forget.
Like, again, you're not talkingpoorly about your co-parent in
this situation.
Sometimes we remember things alittle bit differently, but but
what you remember is importanttoo, and what you experienced is
important too.
Do you see how that entirephrase in no part of it am I, as
(13:10):
the parent, saying, he lied toyou, or no, sweetheart, he did
promise you.
And it fell through.
Or, you know, dad says a lot ofthings and they don't happen.
You're not saying any of that.
You're saying, I hear thatthat's what he said when you
when you told him about it.
(13:30):
What do you remember?
What are you noticing?
I I trust you, is what you'recommunicating.
And I trust that that you, eventhough you're young, have a
memory of this as well.
This is how you do that.
Your memory is important to me.
Are you stuck in a high conflictco-parenting situation?
The Best Interest app usesproven techniques endorsed by
(13:54):
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Romani herself to reduceconflict and protect your peace.
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today.
One thing that's really hard todo, and we'll get to this in the
(14:15):
third step now, is protectingkids without pulling them into
the middle.
What's tricky here is we don'twant to put them in a position
where they have to communicatewhat's going on or what's wrong
or what so-and-so didn'tremember correctly.
In the last example we gave,what you wouldn't want to do is
(14:37):
push that really hard.
Well, listen, I mean, I have atext from your dad that says
he's for sure gonna be there.
Do you want to see?
That would be something whereyou're kind of talking poorly
about your ex there.
You're putting your kid in aloyalty conflict because they're
like, Why don't I put them inthe middle would be saying
something like, Listen, well,you better tell him next time,
don't you promise me to come ifyou're not gonna come?
(14:59):
You're making your child be themessenger or setting them up to
say, Well, mom said that youhave to come to all my events.
It's required.
Like they are literally in themiddle of your conflict.
You really want to avoid that.
Well, how do you do that?
How do you keep them out of themiddle?
You want to really hold on tothis idea that you're not out
(15:21):
here to prove your ex wrong.
You're here to help ground yourkid and keep them in the present
moment and keep them fromfeeling like they're in the
middle, the messenger, orfeeling overwhelmed.
It's important to explicitly saysomething like these
disagreements between your dadand I is not for you to worry
(15:43):
about.
It's not your burden, it's notfor you to fix.
It is not your job to schedulehim, it is not your job to
schedule me.
It is your job to pay attention.
And when he says something likehe's gonna be at your game, and
you're excited about that, youget to say, I'm excited about
it.
If you want to share that youwere sad he wasn't there, you
(16:04):
can, or you cannot.
It's up to you.
You see how that kind of opensthe door for them to process it
and choose their response in theway they want.
Another example would besomething like, Dad says it's
your fault that we had to moveout.
We don't live together.
We don't live in the house thatI loved.
(16:24):
You, how I would coach you torespond if you were one of my
kids' first moms, would be tofirst validate.
So say something along the linesof, that is a big thing for a
little kid to hear.
Gosh, that must be kind of hardfor a second grader, whatever it
is.
You'd put it in their context.
If you know your child's kind ofsensitive, you might add that
(16:47):
piece.
Wow, that's a that's big forsomebody who's really having a
hard time in our new house.
That's a big question mark foryou.
Or I can see how this would beworrisome to you or confusing.
So again, we're validating,okay, you're bringing this up to
(17:07):
me because you're having aconcern or question about it.
It's a big thing.
I want to honor that.
Then I would say something thatis neutral and sets a boundary
around what is there for thekids to worry about and what is
not.
What's important that you knowabout this situation, about
(17:28):
where we live, is that none ofit is your fault.
And my job is to take care ofyou and to make sure you're
okay.
And where we live is part ofthat, but it's not all of it.
Right?
So it's a little bit of abackdoor way out of this.
(17:49):
You're saying, you know, thiscomes up a lot with finance.
You're saying something like,you know, the money decisions in
our family are for the grown-upsto worry about.
That's not for you to worryabout.
And if it ever is something youneed to worry about, we can talk
about it.
You're taking it out of theirhands.
You're saying you don't need tofigure out whose fault it was
(18:10):
that we moved houses.
You don't need to spend yourlittle precious brain power
wondering about who made thefinal decision and why the court
decided that we needed to leaveand sell the house, or why we
needed to stay, or he had to go,or whatever the dynamics are.
Sometimes parents will choose toinsert a little fact, a little
(18:34):
factual information during thispart of the response.
They may say something like, Wemade the decision to separate
together, and where we live ordon't live was decided by the
judge.
Something like that.
Or was decided by someone, youdon't even have to say, who took
(18:57):
all of the things into accountwhere you guys go to school,
where we work, where ourfamilies are, and they made the
decision for us.
And that's what you're saying.
You're not saying, actually, itwas him that asked me for the
divorce.
Or, you know, I would havestayed there, but I can't afford
it.
You're not putting it into thisplace of inappropriate
(19:19):
information for a child to have,nor are you getting into the
weeds about how you got to theplace that you got, because
that's not helpful for anybody.
And again, it would create aloyalty bind for your child.
It would create an issue wherethey would then be like, Well,
I'm kind of unhappy with thisdivorce and separation.
(19:43):
I don't love it.
And mom's the reason that I haveto go through it.
Or dad's the reason I have to gothrough it.
It may very well be that he isthe reason.
That doesn't mean we're going totell our kids that, right?
It doesn't mean that that's everappropriate to tell them.
What it does mean is that theyare questioning why this is
(20:07):
their reality.
And your job is to make sure itstays as neutral as possible.
Sometimes moms ask me, what ifsomething very clearly is
someone's fault?
What if it really is?
Like, I didn't want this divorceat all, and I knew we'd have to
(20:28):
move to, you know, a crappyhouse, or he had an affair, and
I can't be with someone that hadan affair.
And so it is his fault.
Yeah, uh, valid, valid.
Um, not always information thatchildren need to have.
And again, for that kind ofindividualized support, there's
(20:50):
a lot of ways you can work thatout.
But this is the type of thing wetalk about inside kids first.
This is why it's helpful to havesomebody that knows your unique
situation that can talk about,like, okay, that may all be
true.
That might be the case.
You know, you were the one thatdecided to sell the house.
It was a choice, you made it.
(21:11):
How do you frame that to yourkids in a way that doesn't
burden them with adultinformation or create a dynamic
of like you're the bad guy oryou're the bad guy, the other
person's the bad guy.
Now, when it is a factual event.
So I'm thinking about when therehave been founded abuse cases,
(21:33):
when something objectivelyhappened, there was a car
accident, there was a CPSfounded report.
That is a time that you want totry to keep it to just the fact.
Let's say somebody's sayingsomething like, Dad says you
(21:54):
made up that I got hurt at hishouse, and you told the doctor,
and that's why he got introuble.
And you're thinking to yourself,like, oh hell no, that is not at
all how this went down.
It may be important again, withthe support of a coach, with the
(22:15):
support of your child'stherapist to set that record
straight.
You may at that point opt to saysomething like actually
so-and-so got upset, and thisscary thing happened, and the
doctor was worried about yoursafety because we're always
(22:38):
worried about safety.
And so he did what he needed todo to keep you and kids safe.
That doesn't have any sort ofjudgment or accusatory tone to
it.
It's just this is what happened,this is what needed to happen
next, and this is why ithappened.
It was a safety issue.
There was a reason for it.
(22:59):
It was not just me being like,I'm making stuff up.
But again, you want to be reallycareful and deliberate and
thoughtful about how youapproach that.
Inside the kids first community,we do talk about that quite a
bit because most of the momsthat I work with have these
really sticky, tricky dynamics.
(23:19):
And you want to be kind of, youhave to toe the line always
between what's factual andwhat's talking poorly about your
co-parent.
The the big mistake would be tojust let that slide because
you're not supposed to talkbadly about someone.
I'm using air quotes if you'rejust listening.
And so that's a really trickything that we, you know, talk a
(23:39):
lot about on the podcast andwithin the community.
And so those are the types ofquestions that it's it's
important to not make in avacuum.
Gaslighting can be so damagingfor kids, and it can really
create a lot of confusion andanxiety and difficulty for both
(24:01):
kids and you.
It's a really tough spot to knowwhat to do and when to do it,
and how to do it, and how to sayit.
This is why you need support.
You know, you don't have tountangle every lie or accusation
on your own.
You can have a support networkaround you.
(24:22):
A great place to start would belooking at our high conflict
three-day communication bootcamp where I really teach you
what to say and how to how to goabout documentation and things
like that when your ex is doingsome gaslighting behaviors to
you andor your child.
And how do you protect your kidsas they're going in and out of
(24:45):
an environment like that?
So I highly encourage you tocheck that out.
If you have ideas for futurepodcasts, please let us know.
Until next time, I thank you somuch for being here.
I'll see you soon.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of Kids First
(25:06):
Co-Parenting.
The best way you can support theshow is by following, rating,
and reviewing wherever youlisten to podcasts, and by
sharing it with another mom whocould use the support.
You can also connect with me onInstagram and Facebook at Learn
with Little House, where I sharedaily tips and encouragement for
moms raising kids through highconflict divorce.
(25:27):
And if you're ready to go deepand get more tools, scripts,
personalized support, andcoaching, come join us inside
the Kids First co parentingcommunity.
You'll find the details atLearnwithlittlehouse.com.
Until next time, remember yourkids don't need you to be
perfect.
They just need you to be steadyand grounded, and as always, to
put them first.
(25:48):
Thanks for being here.
Welcome to the Kids First Co-Parenting Podcast, the
podcast for smart, intentional,millennial moms raising
resilient kids after separationand divorce.
I'm Dr.
Carolyn Royster, a childpsychologist, coach, and a mom.
After thousands of therapy hourswith kids caught in the middle
of high conflict households, I'mhere to help moms like you do it
(00:29):
differently.
From peaceful co-parenting tototal chaos, I've got you.
Here we talk boundaries,regulation, and how to raise a
great kid, even if your ex isbeyond difficult.
We blend science with real life,and as always, keep focus where
it matters on raising greatkids.
This is Kids First Co-Parenting.
(00:54):
Welcome back to another episodeof the Kids First Co-Parenting
Podcast.
I'm so happy you're here.
In today's episode, we'retalking about how to protect
your kids from gaslighting.
Gaslighting is one of the mostdamaging dynamics that I see as
a co-parenting expert and coachin high-conflict co-parenting
(01:18):
because it really confuses kidsabout what's real and who they
can trust.
If you have not listened to ourprevious episode, I'll link it
in the show notes.
But you really should go backand listen to where this term
comes from, what it means, whatit isn't, because there is a
(01:39):
little bit of an overuse of thisterm.
It is important to have a goodunderstanding of what we're
actually talking about here.
Because this episode gets veryinto the nitty-gritty of okay, I
I understand what it is, Doc.
I understand how we got here.
I know how to identify it.
(02:00):
I don't really know exactly whatto do.
Okay.
I don't know how to protect mykid.
The the really tricky thing thatI see very often is that moms
get kind of stuck in whatthey've been told, and is very
good advice that they shouldn'ttalk badly about their ex.
(02:22):
And so it becomes well, how do Icorrect this with my kid without
calling my ex a liar?
Or how do I say, no, honey, he'smanipulating you, which you
wouldn't say either of thosethings.
And so what happens is that momstend to not say anything.
(02:42):
And that also causes problems.
Gaslighting is not somethingthat you can just not respond
to.
I'm sorry, but it's not.
There's a lot of reason forthat, but the main one is that
kids that are being gaslit, kidsthat are experiencing emotional
invalidation, have a very hardtime.
(03:02):
We know this.
We've seen this.
The research is very clear.
Again, if you'd like to learn alittle bit more about that, go
back and listen to the lastepisode where I really talk
through that research onemotional invalidation as well
as how it affects kids and howit puts them into a real loyalty
(03:23):
bind that they struggle.
They struggle with.
Unfortunately, it's a verycommon thing.
What makes this even harder formoms to navigate is that it's
really often very subtle and ittakes a long time to effectively
gaslight someone out ofbelieving what they know to be
(03:45):
true.
It tends to be more of a watereroding a stone rather than uh a
flood.
When a difficult ex or co-parentis just outright manipulating or
is just talking shit about you,you're that's gonna feel more
like a flood.
It's like, okay, well, that wasobviously out of line.
(04:06):
But what happens withgaslighting is that it tends to
be a little bit more subtle.
It's like, well, maybe they justforgot, or you know, he's not
very emotionally in tune.
Like perhaps he just didn't knowhow to respond when you were
upset.
It is important to kind of knowwhat it is so that you can help
your child and prepare them andyourself for these
(04:31):
conversations.
If you've ever opened a messageon your co-parenting app from
your ex and felt your stomachdrop, you are far from alone, my
friend.
High conflict co-parenting playsby a completely different set of
rules.
And if you keep trying to justbe reasonable, you're going to
keep feeling blindsided.
(04:51):
This is exactly why I createdthe High Conflict Communication
Bootcamp for Moms.
It's a short, self-paced,three-day training that will
teach you exactly what to say,how to respond to toxic or
manipulative messages, and howto keep your child out of the
middle.
You'll get scripts, strategies,and a printable workbook you can
use right away.
(05:12):
And it's only$19.
You can grab your spot byfollowing the link in the show
notes, or go directly tolearnwithlittlehouse.com slash
bootcamp and start today.
That's learnwithlittlehouse.comslash bootcamp and start today.
Protect your piece, protect yourchild, and stop letting someone
(05:32):
else control the energy.
So let's dive in.
We're going to talk about threestrategies today that you can
use to protect your kid fromgaslighting.
And really the whole point is toavoid putting them in the middle
or overwhelming them with adultconversations or adult topics.
(05:55):
Number one, the place I want youto start, the place I always
want you to start as a trainedchild psychologist is validation
and grounding.
I often refer to this insidekids first, when I teach on this
topic, when I write about it, Italk a lot about validation on
(06:15):
steroids.
You know to validate your child.
You know that it's important toacknowledge, to recognize, and
to attune to their emotionalexperience.
We know this is importantbecause this is how kids learn
what emotions are, what they'renot, how to manage them, how it
feels in their body, how to gettheir needs met, all that good
(06:37):
stuff.
It's just really, really good,guys.
And you got to keep doing it.
Validation is so important.
You know this.
I know this.
In terms of gaslighting, one ofthe best tools you can use is to
simply validate what your childis experiencing and that their
(06:57):
emotions and their perceptionsof that event are real.
When they come home confused,when they come home questioning,
when they approach you and theyask you a really off-the-wall
question, and you're like, wheredid that come from?
The first step is always tovalidate their experiences and
(07:18):
to validate their feelings.
What does that look like?
It looks like I can see why thisfeels confusing.
An example would be Dad says youlied about the divorce.
What you are saying is not true.
Dad says you lied about the copscoming that night.
I was too little, I was asleep,I don't remember.
He says you lied about it.
(07:40):
Again, this is a little bit moreovert than kind of the more
subtle gaslighting, but it'sstill a good example for us to
talk about.
How you would validate that isyou would start by saying
something like, I can see whythat feels confusing.
I I understand why you arecurious about this.
(08:04):
Or something along the lines of,it makes a lot of sense to me
that you'd have a lot offeelings about hearing different
stories.
And then reinforcing thatthey're talking to you about it.
So something like, I always wantto hear what you think.
It's always okay to talk to meabout your feelings.
(08:24):
It's always okay to ask yourquestions.
I I want to hear it.
Okay.
So you're saying, not only isthis yes, confusing.
Yes, you are hearing twodifferent stories.
I am acknowledging that.
But you're going to then say,it's good that you brought it to
(08:45):
me.
I'm happy to listen.
I want to hear it.
Why?
Because we want to know if thisis happening.
We want to know if thatexperience is happening for your
child.
And we want to position you as aperson they can talk to about
it.
Why?
Because you're a safe adult thatwants to help them and cares
about their feelings.
(09:05):
The second piece that I reallywant you to hold on to is you're
going to start a process whichcan be very gradual and takes a
long time of teaching your childto trust in their own reality
and their own intuition andtheir own emotional experience.
(09:28):
Outside of the co-parentingworld, outside of this high
conflict parallel parentingworld, this is important.
We want to raise kids that canstand in their truth, can stand
in their values, know who theyare, and know and trust
(09:48):
themselves.
I get kind of caught up on alittle feminist soapbox
sometimes, but women and girlsin particular are often taught
to not trust their intuition orto not trust what they're seeing
and observing.
No, he wasn't leering at you.
He was just, you know, curiousabout the tree behind you.
(10:12):
Or I'm sure that guy wasn'tfollowing you for any reason
other than he was walking thesame way.
That might be true, but if yourintuition is telling you like
something's not right here, Iwant to raise girls that trust
that and listen to that.
Okay.
Boys alternately, again, not toget too gendery, but boys
(10:32):
alternately are often gaslit outof the experience that it's okay
for them to have feelings.
Don't cry about that.
It's not worth your tears.
Or you shouldn't be so upsetabout this.
You shouldn't be so sad aboutthat.
When we talk to our children ingeneral, in that way, we teach
(10:52):
them to not trust what data iscoming to them, whether that be
feelings, whether that be theenvironment, whether that be
their experience.
But we don't want that for kids.
It causes a lot of problems asthey grow up.
If you're told that your angeris not valid, if you're told
your sadness is not valid, ifyou're told your fear is not
(11:13):
valid, then you learn to nottrust it.
And you learn that the cues thatyou are developing and picking
up from the environment are notto be trusted.
And eventually that translatesto I can't be trusted, my
experience can't be trusted.
And then we have real fertileground for things like anxiety,
(11:36):
depression, um, insecure,unhealthy relationships, being
easily manipulated.
It's it's not something we wantto encourage with our children.
So when someone is chipping awayat that confidence in what they
know to be true, you want tohelp your cut your kids to know
(12:00):
and stand in what theyexperienced, heard, or felt and
reinforce that that matters.
So a great example is maybethey're sad because dad missed
an event and you hear your kidssay, Well, he said he never
promised he would come to mygame.
(12:22):
He wasn't sure.
And you're like, hmm, that'sinteresting because just a
little while ago you weretelling me that he was for sure
going to be there, and he hadtold you all that.
And like in your head, you'rekind of thinking this what you
might say is something like,huh.
I I'm hearing that that's whathe said after the game.
What is it that you remember?
(12:43):
I mean, I trust your memory too.
And sometimes grown-ups rememberthings differently, sometimes we
forget.
Like, again, you're not talkingpoorly about your co-parent in
this situation.
Sometimes we remember things alittle bit differently, but but
what you remember is importanttoo, and what you experienced is
important too.
Do you see how that entirephrase in no part of it am I, as
(13:10):
the parent, saying, he lied toyou, or no, sweetheart, he did
promise you.
And it fell through.
Or, you know, dad says a lot ofthings and they don't happen.
You're not saying any of that.
You're saying, I hear thatthat's what he said when you
when you told him about it.
(13:30):
What do you remember?
What are you noticing?
I I trust you, is what you'recommunicating.
And I trust that that you, eventhough you're young, have a
memory of this as well.
This is how you do that.
Your memory is important to me.
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One thing that's really hard todo, and we'll get to this in the
(14:15):
third step now, is protectingkids without pulling them into
the middle.
What's tricky here is we don'twant to put them in a position
where they have to communicatewhat's going on or what's wrong
or what so-and-so didn'tremember correctly.
In the last example we gave,what you wouldn't want to do is
(14:37):
push that really hard.
Well, listen, I mean, I have atext from your dad that says
he's for sure gonna be there.
Do you want to see?
That would be something whereyou're kind of talking poorly
about your ex there.
You're putting your kid in aloyalty conflict because they're
like, Why don't I put them inthe middle would be saying
something like, Listen, well,you better tell him next time,
don't you promise me to come ifyou're not gonna come?
(14:59):
You're making your child be themessenger or setting them up to
say, Well, mom said that youhave to come to all my events.
It's required.
Like they are literally in themiddle of your conflict.
You really want to avoid that.
Well, how do you do that?
How do you keep them out of themiddle?
You want to really hold on tothis idea that you're not out
(15:21):
here to prove your ex wrong.
You're here to help ground yourkid and keep them in the present
moment and keep them fromfeeling like they're in the
middle, the messenger, orfeeling overwhelmed.
It's important to explicitly saysomething like these
disagreements between your dadand I is not for you to worry
(15:43):
about.
It's not your burden, it's notfor you to fix.
It is not your job to schedulehim, it is not your job to
schedule me.
It is your job to pay attention.
And when he says something likehe's gonna be at your game, and
you're excited about that, youget to say, I'm excited about
it.
If you want to share that youwere sad he wasn't there, you
(16:04):
can, or you cannot.
It's up to you.
You see how that kind of opensthe door for them to process it
and choose their response in theway they want.
Another example would besomething like, Dad says it's
your fault that we had to moveout.
We don't live together.
We don't live in the house thatI loved.
(16:24):
You, how I would coach you torespond if you were one of my
kids' first moms, would be tofirst validate.
So say something along the linesof, that is a big thing for a
little kid to hear.
Gosh, that must be kind of hardfor a second grader, whatever it
is.
You'd put it in their context.
If you know your child's kind ofsensitive, you might add that
(16:47):
piece.
Wow, that's a that's big forsomebody who's really having a
hard time in our new house.
That's a big question mark foryou.
Or I can see how this would beworrisome to you or confusing.
So again, we're validating,okay, you're bringing this up to
(17:07):
me because you're having aconcern or question about it.
It's a big thing.
I want to honor that.
Then I would say something thatis neutral and sets a boundary
around what is there for thekids to worry about and what is
not.
What's important that you knowabout this situation, about
(17:28):
where we live, is that none ofit is your fault.
And my job is to take care ofyou and to make sure you're
okay.
And where we live is part ofthat, but it's not all of it.
Right?
So it's a little bit of abackdoor way out of this.
(17:49):
You're saying, you know, thiscomes up a lot with finance.
You're saying something like,you know, the money decisions in
our family are for the grown-upsto worry about.
That's not for you to worryabout.
And if it ever is something youneed to worry about, we can talk
about it.
You're taking it out of theirhands.
You're saying you don't need tofigure out whose fault it was
(18:10):
that we moved houses.
You don't need to spend yourlittle precious brain power
wondering about who made thefinal decision and why the court
decided that we needed to leaveand sell the house, or why we
needed to stay, or he had to go,or whatever the dynamics are.
Sometimes parents will choose toinsert a little fact, a little
(18:34):
factual information during thispart of the response.
They may say something like, Wemade the decision to separate
together, and where we live ordon't live was decided by the
judge.
Something like that.
Or was decided by someone, youdon't even have to say, who took
(18:57):
all of the things into accountwhere you guys go to school,
where we work, where ourfamilies are, and they made the
decision for us.
And that's what you're saying.
You're not saying, actually, itwas him that asked me for the
divorce.
Or, you know, I would havestayed there, but I can't afford
it.
You're not putting it into thisplace of inappropriate
(19:19):
information for a child to have,nor are you getting into the
weeds about how you got to theplace that you got, because
that's not helpful for anybody.
And again, it would create aloyalty bind for your child.
It would create an issue wherethey would then be like, Well,
I'm kind of unhappy with thisdivorce and separation.
(19:43):
I don't love it.
And mom's the reason that I haveto go through it.
Or dad's the reason I have to gothrough it.
It may very well be that he isthe reason.
That doesn't mean we're going totell our kids that, right?
It doesn't mean that that's everappropriate to tell them.
What it does mean is that theyare questioning why this is
(20:07):
their reality.
And your job is to make sure itstays as neutral as possible.
Sometimes moms ask me, what ifsomething very clearly is
someone's fault?
What if it really is?
Like, I didn't want this divorceat all, and I knew we'd have to
(20:28):
move to, you know, a crappyhouse, or he had an affair, and
I can't be with someone that hadan affair.
And so it is his fault.
Yeah, uh, valid, valid.
Um, not always information thatchildren need to have.
And again, for that kind ofindividualized support, there's
(20:50):
a lot of ways you can work thatout.
But this is the type of thing wetalk about inside kids first.
This is why it's helpful to havesomebody that knows your unique
situation that can talk about,like, okay, that may all be
true.
That might be the case.
You know, you were the one thatdecided to sell the house.
It was a choice, you made it.
(21:11):
How do you frame that to yourkids in a way that doesn't
burden them with adultinformation or create a dynamic
of like you're the bad guy oryou're the bad guy, the other
person's the bad guy.
Now, when it is a factual event.
So I'm thinking about when therehave been founded abuse cases,
(21:33):
when something objectivelyhappened, there was a car
accident, there was a CPSfounded report.
That is a time that you want totry to keep it to just the fact.
Let's say somebody's sayingsomething like, Dad says you
(21:54):
made up that I got hurt at hishouse, and you told the doctor,
and that's why he got introuble.
And you're thinking to yourself,like, oh hell no, that is not at
all how this went down.
It may be important again, withthe support of a coach, with the
(22:15):
support of your child'stherapist to set that record
straight.
You may at that point opt to saysomething like actually
so-and-so got upset, and thisscary thing happened, and the
doctor was worried about yoursafety because we're always
(22:38):
worried about safety.
And so he did what he needed todo to keep you and kids safe.
That doesn't have any sort ofjudgment or accusatory tone to
it.
It's just this is what happened,this is what needed to happen
next, and this is why ithappened.
It was a safety issue.
There was a reason for it.
(22:59):
It was not just me being like,I'm making stuff up.
But again, you want to be reallycareful and deliberate and
thoughtful about how youapproach that.
Inside the kids first community,we do talk about that quite a
bit because most of the momsthat I work with have these
really sticky, tricky dynamics.
(23:19):
And you want to be kind of, youhave to toe the line always
between what's factual andwhat's talking poorly about your
co-parent.
The the big mistake would be tojust let that slide because
you're not supposed to talkbadly about someone.
I'm using air quotes if you'rejust listening.
And so that's a really trickything that we, you know, talk a
(23:39):
lot about on the podcast andwithin the community.
And so those are the types ofquestions that it's it's
important to not make in avacuum.
Gaslighting can be so damagingfor kids, and it can really
create a lot of confusion andanxiety and difficulty for both
(24:01):
kids and you.
It's a really tough spot to knowwhat to do and when to do it,
and how to do it, and how to sayit.
This is why you need support.
You know, you don't have tountangle every lie or accusation
on your own.
You can have a support networkaround you.
(24:22):
A great place to start would belooking at our high conflict
three-day communication bootcamp where I really teach you
what to say and how to how to goabout documentation and things
like that when your ex is doingsome gaslighting behaviors to
you andor your child.
And how do you protect your kidsas they're going in and out of
(24:45):
an environment like that?
So I highly encourage you tocheck that out.
If you have ideas for futurepodcasts, please let us know.
Until next time, I thank you somuch for being here.
I'll see you soon.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of Kids First
(25:06):
Co-Parenting.
The best way you can support theshow is by following, rating,
and reviewing wherever youlisten to podcasts, and by
sharing it with another mom whocould use the support.
You can also connect with me onInstagram and Facebook at Learn
with Little House, where I sharedaily tips and encouragement for
moms raising kids through highconflict divorce.
(25:27):
And if you're ready to go deepand get more tools, scripts,
personalized support, andcoaching, come join us inside
the Kids First co parentingcommunity.
You'll find the details atLearnwithlittlehouse.com.
Until next time, remember yourkids don't need you to be
perfect.
They just need you to be steadyand grounded, and as always, to
put them first.
(25:48):
Thanks for being here.
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