Episode 68: Centering Humanity in Teaching. A Conversation with Matt Eicheldinger.

Matt Eicheldinger, NYT bestselling author and educator, shares his journey of persistence and the power of meaningful connections with young people. He centers on building trust and creating space for kids to develop confidence, curiosity, and resilience.

• Becoming a teacher because he enjoyed kids and had parents who modeled empathy
 • Writing his first book for struggling readers, facing 600+ rejections before succeeding
 • The impact of small moments that resonate with students years later
 • Playing "the long game" with disengaged students by building trust before pushing academics
 • The importance of boredom as a catalyst for creativity
 • Creating space for silence and reflection in our overstimulated world
 • Showing vulnerability by sharing rejection letters with students
 • Helping children develop identity beyond academic achievement

About our guest

Matt Eicheldinger is a New York Times bestselling author, storyteller, and educator who brings humor and heart to every story he tells. With a knack for finding the extraordinary in everyday moments, Matt has captivated readers with books like Sticky Notes: Memorable Lessons from Ordinary Moments and Matt Sprouts and the Curse of the Ten Broken Toes, and continues to write stories that capture the imagination and heart for readers. Beyond the page, Matt shares relatable stories with his hundreds of thousands of followers on social media, and has amassed over 100 million views where he makes people laugh, think, and appreciate the small moments in life.

Connect with Matt

https://matteicheldinger.com/
The Matt Sprouts Series
Sticky Notes
@matteicheldinge

Got a story to share or question you want us to answer? Send us a message!

About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.

Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.

Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to [e-mail]. Let's dive into the conversation together!

Important links:
• Connect with us on social
• Get our free literacy curriculum

Interested in starting a microschool?
Prenda provides all the tools and support you need to start and run an amazing microschool. Create a free Prenda World account to start designing your future microschool today. More info at ➡️ Prenda.com or if you're ready to get going ➡️ Start My Microschool

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
As a teacher and as someone who works with kids, you
are making all these decisionsso quickly all the time that I
think we lose those smallermoments that are going to
resonate years down the line,Because we're usually looking
for what is the immediateoutcome of this lesson to show
learning when in fact, likethere is these little steps

(00:20):
along the way that might matterjust way down the line.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hi and welcome to the Kindle Podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
I'm Katie Broadbent, your hostfor today's episode, and today
we're talking to MattEicheldinger.
Matt is a New York Timesbestselling author, storyteller
and an experienced educator.
He's the author of Sticky Notes, memorable Lessons from
Ordinary Moments and the MattSprout series, the first of
which is called the Curse the 10broken toes.
He shares inspiring stories onsocial media to hundreds of

(00:45):
thousands of followers and is anoverall, very cool person.
After my conversation with Matttoday, I'm feeling super
inspired to lean into curiosityand empathy as I interact with
the young people in my life, andin this episode he's going to
share a ton of practicaltake-home tips as well as his
broader philosophy about how wecan interact with young humans
in a way that builds trust andencourages them to persist

(01:06):
through failure.
So hope you enjoy today'sepisode.
Let's go talk to Matt.
Matt, welcome to the Kindlepodcast.
We're super excited to have youon today.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Thank you, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
So you're an experienced teacher, a New York
Times bestselling author andthere are literally hundreds of
thousands of people followingyou on social media.
First off, congrats on all ofthat.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I just want to, kind of I wantto understand why you do what
you do, like why do you write?
Why did you?
Why did you start writinginitially?
Why share on social media Likewhat's your big why?
What are you trying toaccomplish?

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Sure, I think maybe I'll give like maybe an overview
of all of those, but I'll startwith teaching.
Like, why did I go into teaching?
I think that's important toknow.
I grew up in a very small town.
I had the idea of I wanted tomake a lot of money, so I
decided I was going to be anarchitect.
So I like had the school chose.
I figured architects make a lotof money, I can kind of draw,
so I'll do that.
And it was right before Idecided to choose my college

(02:02):
that I realized I, what did Ienjoy naturally doing?
And what I enjoyed naturallydoing was hanging out with kids.
I was always put with thebumblebee soccer players, like
the really little ones, and Idid vacation Bible schools and
it was just great to be aroundkids.
And I also had two parents whoreally led with empathy and
understanding.
My mom owned a dance studio andhad classes for kids with

(02:22):
disabilities, and so I wasexposed to that at an early age
and I just thought, like that'swhat feels comfortable and
that's where I feel my true self, and so that's why I went into
teaching.
It just felt like a verynatural fit as far as everything
that's going on now in terms oflike writing books and telling
stories online.
There's like a couple differentreasons I do it.
The first part, though, is mybooks.
I never had a plan to be anauthor.

(02:42):
It was a dream, but there wasno plan.
Everything that I've created sofar that's gone out into the
world was created for mystudents, which is really
strange.
So, like my first book, that'sa New York Times bestseller I
wrote when I was 21 for mystruggling readers in class.
That was the only purpose.
There was no to put it on ashelf, my book of sticky notes,
of all those stories, that'sbecause I was writing things

(03:03):
down for myself, because Iwanted to remember the things
happening in my classroom.
And I've got a poetry bookcoming out later for kids.
That was written because Ididn't have poetry material.
So everything that I've donewas always for my students,
which is really cool becauseit's so natural, it's so genuine
.
Because there was no plan, yeah,and then sorry, I just keep

(03:24):
going.
Was no plan.
Yeah, and then sorry, I justkeep going.
And then, as far as liketelling stories on Instagram, I
mean, I was.
I was selfish at the beginning.
I was trying to just be visiblebecause I had books coming out,
but I really wanted to sharethings that would leave people
feeling better about eitherthemselves or the world when
they left.
And since I happen to havethousands of stories, I thought
that would be a good place tostart, and so now I continue to

(03:45):
tell them, because I like seeinghow it resonates with other
people and how they seethemselves in so many of these
stories.
So that was everything.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I love that.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's a really beautiful storyand something that just really
comes through when I listen toyour stories on social media or
to just read anything thatyou've done.
You are such a good observer ofhumanity, like you could go
into teaching or go intoanything, and it can either feel
like mechanical and like I'mjust here to get a job done, but

(04:14):
, like every time I hear youtalk about a student or a parent
or a teacher, like you can feelhow much you care for that
person and I think that's reallyunique in a world that is so
fast paced and so focused onlike metrics and assessments and
all of these things that kindof like push on the educational
scene, and so I just really lovethat.
So how did you, how did you getto be a New York Times

(04:38):
bestselling author?
Like what was that path likefor you?
It's so interesting to hearthat you were just writing for
your students and just realquick an aside, what were you
teaching?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
So I've taught the same thing my entire career.
I've taught sixth gradelanguage arts, and so that's
what I've taught.
I primarily taught it in thesame building too.
So the way this story and I'vegotten better crunching down a
very long story in a shortperiod of time is when I was 21
and got hired to be a teacher.
I noticed that all my teacherfriends had like unique
qualities about themselves, likeyou can remember the teacher

(05:09):
that danced, or the one thattold bad jokes on purpose.
So I was trying to think aboutlike what can I give students
that would incentivize them towant to be with me?
And I happen to have a reallygood memory of my past and so I
remember all of my embarrassingmoments, at least the majority
of them.
So I started by telling thesesilly stories to kids and it
just kind of exploded.

(05:30):
There was other kids from otherteams who wanted to hear Mr
Ike's silly story.
So I created this big glass jarin my room that has hundreds of
slips of paper in it and everysheet of paper is a little Mr
Eicheldinger story from hischildhood.
So if we finish like a task, Itell this embarrassing story,
that usually has some sort oflesson in it.
But they're really grounded inhumor because that's what gets

(05:50):
kids' attention.
And so kids really liked them.
So I decided I'll go home andwrite these down before I forget
like actually scribe them inlike long form.
And when I was doing it, forsome reason that I still don't
understand, I decided to weavethem into one story, just like a
narrative, and went back to myclassroom, printed it out on the
school computer, three-holepunched it and just had it in my
classroom.

(06:11):
And over the next several weeksI had kids who were struggling
readers, who wouldn't read, andI was like, well, do you like
the silly stories I tell?
And they're like, well, yeah,I'm.
Like, well, then, read thisthing.
And it quickly startedtraveling around our school Kids
, took it to other kids and Iwas like, well, maybe I made
something good, maybe I canrefine it and really aim it
towards reluctant readers.

(06:31):
And so that began the next 15years of me trying to get it
published I've sent hundreds ofletters to agents in New York
was rejected hundreds of times,more times than I can count.
I did stop keeping track atlike 450.
My best estimate is I wasrejected over 600 times from
experts in New York.
Yeah, it was, but the thing Itell people is I had other

(06:54):
experts and those were mystudents and students who
weren't mine too who reallyenjoyed the book, and so I had
the data that I needed.
I just needed someone tobelieve in me In 2021, nobody
did yet, so I decided to makethe book myself.
I did a Kickstarter campaign.
My wife and I decided how muchmoney we could risk to put into
this project, printed 3,000copies on the initial run, and

(07:18):
then only one bookstore in thewhole Midwest would take me One
in the Twin Cities.
So then I joined TikTok in themiddle of the pandemic because I
was like maybe I can sell onthere, and that was my first
introduction to social media andthat helped me sell a lot of
books.
I won these independent awardsand it was great, but no agent
and no publisher wanted me, andso I had like 20 books left in

(07:40):
my basement because every timesomeone bought one, I had to
march to the post office.
I would sometimes buyMcDonald's for everybody there
because I would be there for solong doing the postage with them
, but I was tired right, after15 years it's a long time I was
able to meet with an agent whogives advice like a consultation
fee, and so I paid that fee andI was like I just need you to

(08:02):
tell me whether or not to giveup on my dream.
Like that's really what I'mpaying you to do, which is a
heavy question.
And I said because I'm notgoing to, I don't want to raise
money again.
I'm getting literally doneeverything that I know how to do
.
I have a social media presence,which was small at the time, it
was like 10,000.
I had sales numbers, I hadawards.
I was like what else can I do?
And she's like well, I'll readthe book.

(08:23):
And she read the book, calledme the next day and she was like
I love it.
There's a catch, though I wantto represent you, but I only
sell women's nonfiction.
And I was like did you actuallyread my book?
Because it's written by a maleabout a male.
And she's like well, that's howmuch I believe in your idea.
And she said I'm going to tryand sell it.
So I signed my contract with myagent.

(08:43):
I was told that it takes a year, maybe four, to get a book deal
, and we got one within twoweeks of pitching it.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
My goodness.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, and so that book deal came on the day before
the day the day before the lastday to put in for leave from
teaching, and so I had to gohome to my wife and we'd look at
each other and be like how muchdo we believe in this dream,
and so financially we were ableto do it for a year.
That's what we could do.
Mac can take off for a year, goin all this in the stream.

(09:11):
And then that summer is when Istarted telling stories on
Instagram, and at the same timeI started telling stories on

(09:37):
Instagram, my book launched, andon the first day that it was
out in the world it became aninstant New York Times
bestseller the first day.
And so it's been a wild ridesince, because when you are a
New York Times bestseller, itgives you credibility and so
people understand that you canwrite more done.
But I have pumped out At thetime.
By September I'll have had fivebooks out in under a year and a
half, which is prettyphenomenal for a new author.
So I'm told, and I've got likefour more coming that are
already contracted.
So I don't even know how long Iget to do this for, but it's

(09:59):
been very fulfilling to knowthat the thing that I knew
worked is actually working.
That's been the best part.
It's not an I told you somoment.
It's like I'm a teacher and Iknow this works.
I just needed one person tobelieve in me and it took 15
years.
But that's kind of where I'm atnow.
I get to sit at home and writeand figure out what is To be.

(10:21):
On the other side of educationis very interesting, right.
I'm creating stuff for kids andfor adults, but mostly kids,
and that's been.
It's been really cool.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
I'd love to just like tangent a little bit into your
writing process and so teachingsixth grade ELA like what are,
what are some of your?
Like writing pedagogy, liketips and tricks, Like what does
work in that classroom?
What have you seen that issuccessful?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
So something that was frustrating for me is I was in
a district where and this isgoing to sound really backwards,
but where you were given a lotof things I've known teachers
who go to districts and theydon't even get a curriculum.
They're literally building fromscratch and we would get stuff
that like laid out your wholeyear.
And that was great as a newteacher because it gave you a

(11:10):
path right.
It gave you structure and scopeand sequence.
But if kids don't like whatyou're doing, there was like
well, what now?
What?
What do I do?
And so I was always creatingwriting prompts for my students.
I have probably thousands justsaved in folders and they've
moved over time.
But my pedagogy for writing iskids have to see the potential
of an adventure in it.

(11:30):
So if I don't give them anopportunity to write about
something that's adventurouswhether it's navigating their
own brain or creating somethingfrom scratch it's really
difficult for kids to buy intowriting for longer than five
minutes.
As far as my own writing process, I'm still figuring that out.
When I wrote my New York Timesbestselling book, I wrote the
initial book in 30 days and sofar that's about how long it

(11:53):
takes me to write a 70,000 wordbook, and I've met other authors
who are similar and others whoare different.
The other thing that is uniqueabout my writing process is I
don't have a plan when I sitdown.
So when I sit down to write abook, I have the title and
that's it.
Yeah, it's so like it's whatI've told people to is.

(12:15):
It's been very freeing because,as educators and anyone who
works with kids, you, yourcreative, creative energy gets
put into lesson plans, and whenI was a teacher, I would come
home and if I wanted to writesomething, which I rarely did,
but I had no creative energyleft.
And so now I'm in this spacewhere all of my creative energy
goes to writing, and so when Isit down with a title, that's

(12:39):
all I need, because I'mcompletely focused on one thing,
and it's been really cool tofigure out what that process is
like.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Has this been cool to see in your students the whole
time you were teaching andtrying to get your book
published?
Were they part of the process?
Were you telling them I gotrejected again, or were you just
doing?

Speaker 1 (12:56):
it kind of on the side.
Yes, they were very involved.
I showed them every rejectionletter.
I don't know if there was onethat I ever did not show.
So as soon as it came in, ifthat class was sitting in front
of me, be like, hey, look what Ijust got, and we'd read it,
talk about what my next stepwould be.
I think one class saw me crybecause there was one agent that
I thought was going to pick meup, and then I got the email
right in the middle of class andlike, what do you?

(13:20):
I'm so you show them arejection letter and they're
like write another one, Mr Ike,write another.
I'm like, well, not right now,but I will.
We're in class, but I will.
And so it was really cool tosee them part of that process.
And when I did the Kickstartercampaign too, I didn't ask, you
know, my students or families topitch in because that would be
like a weird I can't use thedata of the school system to do.

(13:41):
But they knew about it becauseI talked about how, hey, this
day coming up, I'm going to begone because it's a big day of
this campaign launching and Ilearned that so many kids were
going to check in on theKickstarter campaign that they
basically clogged the filter ofthe school Wi-Fi and broke the
Wi-Fi in the building because somany kids were going to my

(14:01):
Kickstarter page just to watchthe ticker of the amount of
money coming in.
So, yeah, they were veryinvested.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's amazing, Like what a cool example you are
showing them of like going afteryour dream perseverance and
like growth mindset around, likeI mean.
Earlier in our conversation yousaid I've had 600 experts tell
me that I was not good enough,essentially like my writing was
not good enough.
And I loved what you said abouthaving other experts, and I
think that that's like very coreto what we're trying to do here

(14:31):
on the Kindled podcast is likekeep kids at the center.
And when we let the adult worldkind of infiltrate what we're
doing for kids, it doesn'tusually get better for them,
right, like they're kind of thisvoiceless entity in a very
complicated equation.
And I just love how you likebrought them into that adult

(14:53):
world and made them feel likelike worthy of like conversation
at that, like adult level.
Right, you weren't hiding thatfrom them and just like brought
them in and that you're alsobeing super vulnerable with them
and sharing.
I mean, it's hard.
We I think our generation is, byand large, doing a better job
at this than maybe previousgenerations but like the adult

(15:15):
used to the adult in the roomused to be infallible, like you
could not be wrong, like nothingRight, and so it's like well,
how are how?
And then we can put all theseposters on the wall about having
a growth mindset where it'slike it's okay to fail, mistakes
are safe, but then we donothing to lead the way in our
example, because that takeshumility and it takes

(15:37):
vulnerability to say, yeah, Itried this, I swung super hard
and I missed, and I just lovehow you're creating that culture
in your classroom.
Are there any other ways thatyou've found like, obviously,
leading by example?
Is one like any other ways thatyou build that culture in your
classes?

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, I'm going to steal a quote from somebody else
because it's so good.
I am a writer, but JasonReynolds, who's a phenomenal
author.
I heard this quote once and hesaid stories are baked in
empathy machines and so when youshare stories with someone else
, you're constantly trying tosee yourself in that story or
someone you care about in it.
So in my classroom I put aheavy emphasis on learning about

(16:17):
each other, and we do thatformally and informally.
But I have noticed that thegreater amount of time that I
spend getting to know kids andtheir past more than what
they're doing right now, becausethings so often we're asked
like oh you got sports and youknow what are you doing this
weekend, and all that is good.
But when you, when you backtrackand start to learn about the
history of that person, youreally start to build a deeper

(16:41):
foundation, and so I try andcarve out time to learn about
kids, and in the last six orseven years of teaching, before
I went on leave to do this stufffor books, I created something
in my classroom that is similarto other strategies, but it's
just circle time, like inkindergarten, except with 11 and
12 year olds, and we literallysit in a circle for the first 10
or 15 minutes of class and wedon't do anything about school,

(17:03):
not a thing.
I'll put questions up on theboard that deal with pop culture
or you know weather, or, andthen there's always a question
that says anything that you wantto share.
So like no boundary at all andkids aren't forced to talk, but
we go around twice and I alwaysfind that when I do that, class
goes faster, like, and we get tothings quicker just by carving

(17:25):
out that 10 or 15 minutes.
And I know some districts can'tdo that because of policies and
procedures in their building,but I always found that carving
out that time just set up kidsfor better success in that class
.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
What do you think that is Like what's going on
psychologically orneurologically in the child,
when they're like feelingconnected and like you care to
listen to them.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
That then sets them up for and I think I'll kind of
think of myself as a child too,because that's often when I'm
teaching.
I'm trying to think about how Iwould feel in that situation
and I'm constantly thinkingabout myself as 11 and 12 year
old, because that's the age ofbooks I write for, too, right?
So I think when you're able toalleviate fear, that's when kids

(18:07):
can relax, and fear comes inmany forms in middle school.
How am I being perceived by myfriends?
How am I being perceived by theteacher?
Who am I?
We joke that kids want to weardifferent hats, like am I the
funny guy at this new school?
Who am I going to be in thefuture?
And when you can start toalleviate that pressure of the
building or of the assignment,then kids start to loosen up and

(18:28):
then they're more willing tomake mistakes, they're more
willing to share about who theyare, and then you get better
data as a teacher, right?
So it's not just a one, it'snot just I'm creating
opportunity for you to learnbetter, I'm also learning about
you, and it's just sets them upfor better success.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, what I'm hearing you say is that when you
are, when you focus on creatinga foundation of connection and
like safety, first they youmentioned earlier creative
energy, right where it's like ifyour system, if your brain and
your body is spending so muchtime kind of coping with the
stress of all the things youjust talked about, like how am I
perceived as that girl?
I think I'm cute, like all ofthese things you know that that

(19:08):
are at the forefront of theminds of our, of our children.
And then we're suddenly likeright, you know, like be
creative, and she's like sorry,like I have a lot going on in
here and I don't have that.
But it seems like when youallow space for that, it almost
is like you're creating a shelffor them to just kind of like
check all of that stuff in andyou're helping them hold that
and then they freeze up theirengagement, their attention,

(19:31):
their interest, their buy-in isanother way that you had put it
earlier.
Is that what you see?

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, it's not likewhen kids sit down they're
willing to share everythingright away, right, like you have
to build it, and so one waythat you can build it is sharing
a lot about yourself, and itdoesn't have to be formally so.
Every day in my classroomstarted with something that
happened to me the day beforeevery single class, and most of

(20:01):
it was funny, and it was, youknow, things that were funny
because we're laughing at myinexperience or we're laughing
at my mistake, and so a lot ofit came from parenting too, like
I would talk about when my kidswere infants, like the mistake
I made that morning or the thingthat I wish I would have done.
Then kids, immediately they'relike it's like in kindergarten.
When you ask a kid, hey, do youhave any questions?
And then kindergarteners justwant to tell you a story.
Yeah, it's the same thing withmiddle school is everyone's just

(20:23):
probing around to see how can Iconnect with you, and the best
way to do that is with a story,and so you share a story, and
then later in that class maybenot all of them, but one kid
might come up and be like oh, mylittle brother used to do that
too.
He used to drop his diaper.
My mom would have to chase him.
And you start to make thoselittle connections over time.
Then, when you have that circlemoment, then more kids are

(20:46):
willing to share.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Interesting.
Okay, so let's dive into StickyNotes.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Sticky Notes.
Tell us a little bit about thebook, and then I'd love for you
to just kind of like share someof your Sticky Notes, sure, so
Sticky Notes is a book that cameout in October, and again it
was something that just kind ofcame naturally.
I had a mentor teacher my firstyear teaching who told me you
need to like reflect on everylesson so you can see how to
improve it.
And that sounded like a lot ofwork and you know, when you're
just stepping into the classroomfor the first time, there's so
much going on, there's so muchto learn, and that became like a
low priority.

(21:19):
But also he would meet with meto hold me accountable, so I had
to have something written down,and so the first things I
started writing down were justfunny things that happened in my
classroom, because I didn'twant to forget them when my
profession was over.
I was like someday when I'mretired I would love to just
look back at things thathappened in my room, you know as
like a soft spot in my heart,like that would be cool.

(21:41):
And so they started as funnythings.
And then, as I matured as ateacher, these memories matured
over time, right.
So I would start writing thingsdown about professionally,
things that hurt me or timesthat I saw kids disagree with
their parents and it was notgoing well, inspirational
moments, just like everything inbetween.
And I wouldn't write them downin long form, like they weren't

(22:02):
paragraphs or pages, they wereliterally like one or two lines
on a sticky note or in anotebook or an electronic file,
and I did that for 15 years, andso it wasn't one thing a day,
it was, you know, sometimes fouror five, depending on what
happened that day.
And so I've amassed all ofthese stories and I never had a
chance to look back on thembecause, as anyone who works

(22:23):
with kids know, you don't havethe time to do that.
There's other priorities right,and so when I went on leave to
help promote my books, that wasthe first time I got to go back
and look at everything, and whatI started seeing were like
these.
I guess you'd call them lifelessons, because I would write
the story down for one reasonand then, when I would remember
it because I have a really goodmemory I would start to see

(22:45):
these other elements in it, andso I thought that would be neat
to share with people, becauselooking at life through the eyes
of a kid is very different thanlooking at life from the eyes
of an adult.
So what if I shared stories andjust kind of put them on a
platter and said here's thestory from the eyes of a kid.
What do you think?
So Sticky Notes is 100 storiesfrom my time in the classroom,

(23:07):
and it covers a vast array ofthings.
It covers death, it covers love, it covers all sorts of stuff.
My hope is the book showspeople the humanity in the
classroom.
What are teachers actuallydoing?

Speaker 2 (23:20):
What's actually?

Speaker 1 (23:22):
happening in those four walls of the classroom.
I also hope it helps peopleremember their own teachers, but
also just the great littlemoments in life that you tend to
miss when you're not lookingfor them.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, I love that.
I used to be a speech-languagepathologist in school, so so my
office door sandwiched inbetween the principal's office
and the teacher's lounge, and soI had a lot of like ear to the
ground moments of like what'sgoing on in both of those
situations and I just developedlike such an empathy and love
for teachers.
You know, like as a speechlanguage pathologist I would
like sneak into the back andlike take my one or two speech

(23:52):
kids, and here is this woman orman just like rocking this room
of 30 kids sometimes and it'sjust like like bless them, I
don't know how they're doing itand I, I.
So you look at the teachingprofession and like some people
are like built for it, somepeople get burned out you know
there's so many differentpressures on the teacher and

(24:15):
then you come back to like thehumanity of what's going on
there and then compare that like, put that on a scale between
like what I'm doing for thesekids every day, who I am in
their life and how I'm affectingtheir long-term development and
their life trajectory, and thenlike their math homework score,
you know like whatever thedistrict wants you to do, it's

(24:37):
like wow, like can we keep thesethings in balance?
These things are intention, butI just love, love your work,
and so what would you share someof some of your stories?

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, I'll tell the first story I thought about when
, when we were talking at thebeginning, when you're asking
like what's your why or why doyou lead with this?
This is one of the firststories I wrote down and I'm not
going to read it verbatimbecause I think that's boring,
so I'll just tell it.
It's just called Parent TeacherConferences.
In the district that I washired, I was told that it was a
high profile district.
I'm not from Minnesota, so Igot hired in a very wealthy

(25:08):
community it's one of thewealthiest in the state of
Minnesota and so with that camea lot of rumors that my new
colleagues told me these parentsexpect the best of their
teachers.
It's going to be high pressureand on open house even, I had
these parents of 11 and12-year-olds who asked me what I
would be doing to prep theirkid for the SAT.
And it's like I just took theSAT.

(25:31):
What do you mean?
Your kid, they're 11.
But some of those rumors weretrue and I don't want to paint a
bad picture of any of thesefamilies because that wasn't the
case, but there was pressure,there was a lot of pressure, and
so I felt like I needed to cometo parent-teacher conferences,
ready to defend my job,basically Like here's why I'm
good.
And so I bought a suit withshoulder pads I'd never owned

(25:52):
one, got my tie.
I hand wrote 150 letters forevery family so that when they
came in they would havesomething tangible to read of,
like what their kid was doingwell, what they can improve on.
It was definitely meant todefend me, right, like I know
your kid.
That's why I'm writing thisletter is to prove I know your
kid.
And then I compiled folders ofdata from every test score,

(26:14):
because it's only like a monthinto the school year and the
first family walks in forconferences, both parents in
business attire, looking waymore professional than me.
I'm already nervous because I'monly 21.
And their kid comes in too andthey sit down and I go like
right into my pre-pand spiel.
Here's the letter, here's thedata.
And I'm talking really fast andthe parents aren't saying a

(26:37):
thing and I'm getting morenervous and all of a sudden the
dad holds his hand up like thisto indicate me to stop and he
goes.
We're going to ask our son tostep out for a second and I go.
This is going to be the momentI've heard about I'm about to
get yelled at.
I understand that.
I know this face.
My dad has this face sometimes.
And so the kid leaves and thedoor clicks shut.

(26:57):
And as soon as that door clicksshut, the mom just loses.
It just starts bawlinguncontrollably, and I've never
had a crier in a classroom.
So I scramble, I find thetissues, I bring them up and we
get it to a place where she ismore collected and the dad goes
hey, we're really happy with ourson's academic progress.
We were seeing him grow, that'sgreat.
But our son doesn't have anyfriends and we do not know how

(27:19):
to help him.
Can you help us?
And I remember that I don't knowhow much time went in between
him saying that and me speaking,but I was just spinning because
I was so caught off guard bythese people asking me for help
on something that had nothing todo with academics, the thing
that I was prepped for.
And so you know, I quickly waslike, yeah, well, we can get
them connected with lunchbuddies.

(27:40):
And I had all these strategiesthat I thought everybody knew
about.
And within like a couple ofweeks that kid had a pod of
friends.
And that was the first moment Iwas like, well, this is what
teaching is.
I get it, this is what mycareer will be.
And then I was all in.
I was pretty much all inbecause I knew I'd be working
with kids, but I was like, oh,I'm helping them grow as people,

(28:01):
I'm helping parents grow aspeople.
I'm all into this.
This is great.
And so that was one of thefirst memories I wrote down.
But I wrote it down initiallybecause I was terrified.
I was like this is thescaredest I've ever been as an
adult.
Is this moment right here?
Wow?

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Something that is just really standing out to me
that you just said is that youwere preparing and you just used
the phrase.
I literally had a visceralreaction to it when you said it.
You said here's why I'm good youwere going into that meeting in
defense of yourself being good,and I think that that is at the
crux of so much human fear,both adult fear and kid fear.

(28:39):
Right, like a kid sits down andthey're trying to get those
grades and they're trying tobehave and they're trying to
show you like here's why I'mgood, here's why I'm valuable,
here's why you should protect me, here's why you should like
invest.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
When we're treated that way as a child, like we
grow up still always looking tothe external world for that
validation, right, and thenwe're kind of living our whole
lives running from something.
We're running from this likefear that we're not good enough,
or that some expert and yourstory is so beautiful, like I've
got a list of experts thatdon't think I'm good enough,

(29:14):
right, but like yet I persistand.
I think that just being aware,when you interact with anyone a
teacher, a parent, a studentthat like they're probably in
the frame of mind of like tryingto show you that they're good
and to be able to like show thatyou already think that about
them and that they don't need towaste a lot of their like

(29:35):
energy on proving that to you,like you are good, you are
valuable and we can move on andwe can progress just think that
we forget that sometimes.
It gets lost in the noisesometimes, but I think that
story oh, thank.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
I was just going to say too, like we get focused on
like this one thing that you'redoing, this one thing you're
trying to impress me with, orlike what you said, like trying
to show that I am good enough,but what you have to tell kids
is, like that's just one aspectof you, like there's all these
other things that I willprobably never get to see.
That's why I love field trips.
When you go on a field trip,you see a side of kids that you

(30:09):
don't see and a lot of teacherswould say, like that's the time
of misbehavior, which it issometimes, but it's also the
time of a lot more data that younever get to see.
Go to a kid's sporting eventLike before I had kids, I had
more time to like go watch mystudents play basketball or
watch them at a hockey game thatkid who maybe is really quiet
in class, like you're tenaciouson the ice rink, and they're

(30:31):
like what's tenacious?
I'm, like you are, you'retenacious.
And then they walk around with,like this new sense of self,
like I didn't know that word,like that's who I am and so you
know, allowing kids tounderstand.
Like I only see you in thiscapacity, but I know and I want
to recognize that there's somuch more to you that I might
never get to see.
It's really important.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, I love that.
All right, next story.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Just like rattle one off.
Yeah, let's just do it.
I'm loving this.
I'll tell one that I reallylike.
That I think would be good forlisteners to understand.
So I call the story the silenceand the stars.
In our district we are luckyenough to take all of our
students up to an environmentallearning camp for an entire week
.
We take 600 11 and 12 year oldsduring the same week to an
environmental camp up north inthe middle of January in
Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
And it's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
It's as terrifying as it sounds.
I've learned a lot about myselfand kids during that trip.
But you know, most of the campis run by college age students
who are like getting certaindegrees in environmental
sciences, and so it's prettyhands off for us until it's the
evening, when kids are a littlecranky and missing home.
But we have these classes thatare indoors and relaxing.

(31:44):
But one class is outside andit's called Night Hike and it's
just like it sounds.
I take pods of 30 kidsthroughout the week and we go
walk in the dark, no flashlight,no nothing, and all you can
hear is just like the swishingof their their pants and their
snow coats.
Cause you tell them before yougo, you say, hey, if we're quiet
enough we might hear somethinglike a deer.

(32:05):
And these kids have never beenout, so they're like like a deer
, I'm like maybe, and so they'rereally quiet, and so we're
walking and I'd like to take himto this place called Raven Lake
and it's a frozen lake that wecan walk out on, and so I take
them there and I go.
Here's what we're going to do.
We're going to spread out andyou're going to take five
minutes and you're not going totalk.
You can lay down, you can closeyour eyes, you can look up at

(32:26):
the stars, it's up to you.
But we're not going to talk forfive minutes.
And so they do.
And they come back this one timeand this girl, joyce, was like,
can we do that again?
Which I'd never been asked.
And so I looked around.
The kids are all nodding theirheads.
I'm like sure, go lay out onthe ice.
And so they all lay down.
Five minutes later they comeback and now they're arguing of
who gets to lead the line back.

(32:47):
Pretty big, powerful moment fora kid in the dark right.
So they're arguing and as westart to walk, joyce grabs on my
jacket and pulls me and I go,what's up?
And she goes Mr Reich, thankyou so much.
I didn't know what silence wasbefore today.
That was really cool.
And then we left and then I wentback to my bunk and I wrote
down Joyce really liked thequiet.

(33:08):
I think that was the memory Iwrote down.
In hindsight, what I use thisstory for is to teach people
like the powerful potential of amoment, like I have no idea how
that moment's going to resonatewith Joyce years from now, but
I know it's going to Like I canpicture her telling that story
to her own kids someday, orgoing back home and telling her
parents over the dinner table,like that is a moment that you

(33:28):
can feel the neuron connectionsbeing made in that kid's head.
And as a teacher and as someonewho works with kids, you are
making all these decisions soquickly all the time that I
think we lose those smallermoments that are going to
resonate years down the line,because we're usually looking
for what is the immediateoutcome of this lesson to show

(33:50):
learning, when in fact, likethere's these little steps along
the way that might matter justway down the line.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Shocking that she had neverheard like been in that kind of
quiet before.
But that's so true.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Like the world is noisy especially kid life.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
You know, you're always like I feel like kids are
just running around, alwayslike afraid of boredom, almost
where it's like I have got to beplaying in a video game, I've
got to be talking to a friend,I've got to be doing something
we could talk about that forhours.
Yes, yeah, yeah, go into that alittle bit.
What are you seeing?
Because I feel like sometimeswe're like why can't you just
sit still, and why can't youjust listen, and why can't you,
why can't you?
And it's just like I've got alot of stuff going on here and

(34:34):
the habit and practice of beingstill is something we all
struggle with, and so, yeah, gointo that a little bit.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
We do this with my own kids too.
They'll say things like we'rebored and I go okay, and then I
go about my business because Iknow that something's going to
come out of the board.
And what's the worst thingthat's going to happen?
Take a nap.
When you give kids time to becreative, they will be creative.
We still have my kids are inmiddle school and late
elementary we have like a wholecrafting closet, basically, and

(35:05):
it gets used fairly oftenbecause they'll default to
creating things when they knowthere's nothing else to do.
Oh, I can't watch TV, I can'tuse a tablet, it's too cold to
go outside, what can I do?
And then there's this period oflike, almost like a ringing in
your ears, where you arestruggling with I don't know
what to do.
I don't know what to do, andthen things start to awaken.
There's like this weird periodof time where you really do feel

(35:28):
like nothing's going to come ofit, and if you can get kids to
push past that, then they'll beokay.
I think a lot of that deals withlike creative assignments too,
kind of like you talked about,where you're like okay, you're
going to do this assignment.
It does have a lot of creativechoice.
You need to do it now.
And then kids are like but Idon't, I don't have any idea
right now.
And then you you as a teacherare panicked because if kids
don't come up with an idea, thenyou need more time and you

(35:50):
don't have more time because youhave more curriculum to cover.
So I always in my classroom Ibuild in days of plan of just
like thinking okay, let's, howare we going to do a new way of
thinking today, we're going toput on some music and you're
going to draw and just bethinking about that assignment
that's up on the board and we'rejust going to draw for a little
bit and then kids will.
They'll be like I thought ofthis idea, do you think it could

(36:11):
work?
Maybe Write it down.
We'll see in a couple days.
So I think allowing people tobe bored is pretty crucial.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
I love that.
Isn't there some quote likeboredom is the mother of
invention, or something likethat?
I think that that's very, verytrue, and I see that in my kids
too.
Sometimes as parents, we feellike, oh no, they're bored, I
need to provide, I need toentertain them a little bit, and
I have found great solace andpeace in the frank that they're

(36:40):
like when they come to me andthey say that they're bored, I
say your boredom, your boredomis not my emergency.
And it's just likecongratulations, we've reached a
new, a new frontier for you.
I'm so excited to see whatyou're about to create and what
you're about to do.
And then, yeah, you just likelet them go.
And then 10 minutes later, theyhave an epic fort upstairs and
like this you know very deepplot, like creative game, that's

(37:02):
going on.
They've invited half theneighborhood over.
Like it's just like, yeah, andthen that builds self-confidence
and self-worth, because they'relike I didn't need an adult to
come.
Like coach me through soccerpractice.
And like tell me what to do.
And there's, there are a lot ofresearch that goes, goes.
That's going on right now.
The Let Grow have you heard oflet grow?
We had their founder, lenoreSkanezion, last year.

(37:23):
And just like the ability tojust to create space for a child
to completely self-direct whenthey're in a classroom all day
long and things are prettymanaged Like the part of their
brain.
That is like I decide I choose.
I can like figure this out.
Like it, it it gets weak overtime, right, and so to just
provide kids that platform tojust like figure it out.

(37:46):
You know, boredom's not afraid.
Nothing to be afraid of.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Right, and aside from like entertaining yourself too,
isn't that creative spacefiguring out who you are as a
person, right?
So, like my, kids arecompletely different when they
are, when they are given time todo things, they they used to
just do the same thing becausethey're sisters, and so they
would color or paint or whateverit may be, and now they go in
different directions.
One kid, if there's nothing todo, will go to music, the other

(38:13):
will go to practicing stuff forcheer, and that they're just
defaulting to what they thinktheir strengths are and the
things that they love to do.
And I think that's importanttoo is you can give.
If you are a parent that'sgiving all these different
options for kids to choose from,you're not really providing
them an opportunity toself-discover who they are.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Have you heard of a book, the Self-Driven Child, by
Ned Johnson and Will?

Speaker 1 (38:37):
E Stixford, it sounds familiar.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
We've had them on before.
And Ned tells a story about hecoaches like high performing
academic kids to get better ACTand SAT scores.
But they come to him likereally anxious and like his
whole, his whole vibe, is likewhy does this matter to you, you
know?
Like how can you care aboutthis more, instead of like
really this is your parents goaland pressure on you like your

(38:59):
life's gonna work out and likeyou can you need to relax, kind
of what we were talking aboutbefore, like it's the fear and
the anxiety that's disconnectingyour brain from its ability to
perform and to learn.
But he tells a story about hewas seeing this girl and he was
just like what do you like?
And she was like 15 or 16.
She's like I don't know.
I've been jumping through otherpeople's hoops my entire life

(39:20):
and I literally don't know who Iam.
Like if we're not careful,careful, we are going to
overschedule and over likecontrol these kids so much that
they really will look back ontheir childhood and just shrug
their shoulders.
That like who they are and whatthey want to do.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yep, I felt that too.
So I grew up in a very smalltown and I'd never been on an
interstate or driven on oneuntil I came to college here in
Minneapolis, and something thatshocked me about the metro area
is how overscheduled kids are,particularly with sports, like
there's not just one soccer team, right Like where I grew up.
It's like you want to playsoccer, here it is, this is the
one you can do, and here it'slike you like playing soccer.

(39:58):
Well, there's school soccer,there's club soccer, there's
competitive travel soccer Somekids are a part of all three and
it's like if you like soccer,that's great, but also there is
literally no room then for youto do other stuff.
And that made me nervous as aneducator.
And this was like when I firststarted.
Homework was still really big.
We sent home daily homeworkbecause we were told to, because
it would prepare kids betterfor high school.

(40:20):
I since have a differentphilosophy of what homework is
used for, but kids wouldn't evenhave time to do that.
Like we're reading a book youneed to read 10 pages at home.
I don't have time.
I just don't have time.
I'm doing, my parents aredriving me here and there and so
you know you start to getworried for kids, like when will
you find a new connection withsomeone outside of soccer?
When will you do anything?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
We talked about that for a while and then their
entire identity is built uparound soccer and turns out like
there aren't a lot of like dadsand professionals that are just
like professional soccer playeris a very, very small
percentage of people.
You know there are othermeaningful aspects of life and
if you don't take time todevelop those, then people kind
of get like I did reallycompetitive gymnastics when I

(41:00):
was little and as soon as Iwasn't a gymnast anymore, I'm
like that was the thing, thatwas who I was, yeah Right, Like
that was my identity.
And then you kind of have theselike little meta crisis.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
College athletes go through that.
That's a huge thing withcollege athletes is they get
done.
And then if they'reparticularly in a sport too
that's hard to do, like thatclub sport or still be at a
level of competition, then theyreally start to.
They don't know where to putthat energy.
It's like I never had anotheroutlet.
So now, now what I'm kind ofgoing through, that now I've
been a runner for my entire lifeand now I've got my knees hurt

(41:32):
so I can't do it anymore.
So where does that, where doesthat go?

Speaker 2 (41:34):
I'll figure it out.
Well, maybe this author thingwill work out for you.
You can have a new identity.
Yeah, maybe Teacher, not justrunner.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Tell me a little bit about your philosophy on
homework.
That was interesting.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, so when I started so I started teaching in
2009, there was an emphasis inmy district that every class
should have homework and itshould be at least 10 minutes
per class.
That was like the standard andI didn't know any different.
So I was just like, yeah,homework equates to practice.
Practice is better, sotherefore they should practice
right, and that does work insome subjects better than others

(42:07):
.
So sometimes I would just createassignments that had little to
no value to what we're doing inclass, like we might be, you
know, doing a writing, apersonal narrative, but I'm
going to have you work onspelling with words that don't
really deal with what we'redoing.
Like it was just to fill theneed of what I was told.
And then you know, as you learnmore about kids, you'd start to

(42:27):
see that that's not reallypaying off in any tangible way
other than like routememorization.
And so as I got older in myprofession, philosophies changed
.
So then our building went to ano homework policy you can't
send homework home and that wasweird because it was only like
maybe six years after I hadstarted.
So it felt very much like myphilosophy of education was

(42:48):
getting flipped out, like Ididn't even have a firm
foundation of what I thought myown philosophy was.
You know, you definitely saw thepressure drop for a while.
But then, you know, at the sametime and this is kind of
related our building went tostandard-based grading, so
there's no longer A, B, C, D, F,and a lot of teachers were
excited about that because weknew that a B doesn't give you a
full representation of what thekid knows.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
We found it extremely difficult, and part of it, I
think, was due to the rollout.
We were told like a monthbefore the school year and then
we just implemented it.
So there was a lot of parentpushback because parents didn't
have an easy understanding ofhow that would translate to high
school grades or how highschool would translate to
college.
But you watched kids like nothave any more accountability
because they're like there's nogrades, so like I can't fail, so

(43:34):
it doesn't matter.
So then you went right back tookay, well, now we need homework
that you have to do in order totake the test, and if you don't
do the homework, then you can'tdo the test.
Like it just was like gettingall mixed and it was really hard
to like figure out what is bestfor kids in that moment.
It was very confusing and so Iguess my current stance on
homework is I think it is betterfor certain subjects.

(43:56):
I think kids should read everyday.
Is that homework, I don't know,but I think kids should read
every day outside of school.
It should be choice reading andreading that's like you know at
your level but also pushes youa little bit more.
I think that's crucial.
Based on my own kids.
I think math practice isimportant too.
I think some kids do need therepetition and I don't have a
good formula for who needs it.
I just know that my kids needit, and so I you know that just

(44:19):
goes back to every kid isdifferent and need it, and so I
you know that just goes back toevery kid is different.
And so having having a policyof like we all do homework or we
all don't, it's, it's just hardand that's a lot of pressure on
the teacher.
It's like if I have 30 differentkids in a room and I know you
need practice, but you don't doI make everybody do it, even for
the kid who does it.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
So and that takes time.
We have schools around aroundhere where the parents set the
homework level.
It's like my kids go to theschool and they are no homework
kids and I am low homework kidsand I am a high homework kid and
it's a family decision, so theteacher provides those options.
I think that's an interestingapproach to it.
We don't have any grades at all, but we give the kids their

(45:00):
mastery-based data.
There's no person that's like.
You have like a four out offive on this skill, like
evaluating them, you havedemonstrated mastery in this
concept, and then they're liketrying to beat their grade level
.
So there is accountability, butwe try really hard to make it
so it's the student that'sowning the goal and every, every
goal that's set.
They also have to set a purpose.
So they're digging into likewhy mastering third grade math

(45:24):
is important to me.
So when you just take gradesaway or take home school away or
homework away, you do createthis kind of void of like well
why, you know I was running fromsomething and now it's like
nothing's chasing me, so I'mjust going to stand still.
You have to give them somethingto run towards, right,
something they care about, a, apurpose, a greater understanding
, that buy-in you were talkingabout earlier.
Okay, so last few things here.
I feel like you.

(45:45):
I would love for my kids to bein a class with you because I
feel like you have a magical wayof like reaching that kid who
is struggling or disengaged.
And I'm just wondering if youhave, like some quick take-home
tips for listeners.
Like what are your if you havea kid who's just like not into
it, or like behavior is off, oranything like what are the

(46:07):
questions you ask yourself?
I love how curious you are as,like an observer of young humans
, like take me through thatthought process and like your
strategies in that situation.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Sure.
So I'll use an example of arecent interaction I had with a
kid a couple years ago.
Came mid-year, so already youknow that's a disadvantage.
Right Coming into new routines,new people, that's difficult
and she didn't want to doanything.
Also, language was a smallbarrier.
She could speak Spanish andEnglish, but Spanish was way
stronger her home language.

(46:38):
And when I have students likethat who just refuse to do work
something that I think newteachers especially do is they
just like want to sit next tothat kid and just keep talking
and just keep trying.
And we need to do this now andif I can get them to do a little
bit, that means they'll do morethe next day.
But that's, I don't think, thecase at all.
I think if you spend more timedoing things that are not

(47:00):
academic and building trustthat's the first step of a
foundation is you need trust.
And so with this new kid shewas from California.
All we did was talk aboutCalifornia for a long time, and
I mean like weeks, and that kiddidn't produce anything.
But I also wasn't asking.
So this kid would come to class, sit down, I would start the
lesson, and then you know shewould want to do her own thing

(47:22):
and I had structure.
So I'm like hey, if you don'twant to do the work, that's fine
.
But we also can't like disruptother people.
So you can sit there, youlisten to music, that's fine,
but we're not going to disrupt.
And it took a long time, butbecause I was invested in just
talking to this kid, eventuallyI was able to learn enough to be
like hey, you're from theValley in California, Do you
know?
There's a book about the Valley?
I don't read nonfiction books.
No, this is like a story ofmurder.

(47:44):
Are you interested in that?
Yeah, I am interested in that.
I'm like great.
So she's reading a book fromthe Valley about murder, while
the rest of my class is readinga nonfiction book.
Does this matter?
She's doing work now and so youplay the long game, you.
So you play the long game.
You have to play the long game.
There's no short-term fix.

(48:05):
It's you have to be thinkingabout.
Sometimes you even think aboutthe next grade, like, especially
if a kid is going through likeevaluation services, because you
know there's a need but youdon't know what it is.
It's like well, I'm not goingto try and make a kid who can
barely write a paragraph, writean.
So what can I do now that'smore beneficial to that kid, All
right.
Well, let's talk about whateverit may be.

(48:26):
So I guess, in summary, you needto play the long game and it's
okay to play the long game.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
I love that.
That is so power.
Well, because you feel thisfear, right Like you can't like
you try to play the long biggame, but then as adults, or
like you know, we help peoplerun micro schools, micro school
guides.
They, there's this pressurewhere it's like, hey, it's been
three weeks, where are theresults?
Or you know where are weacademically?
And so it's like saying like, oh, we're playing the long game

(48:52):
with that.
There's a tension, right.
But like if you can reallyspeak to that and really lean
into that idea and help parentssee that, like if you're, if,
especially kids.
We get a lot of kids who havebeen push, push, push.
They're super highly anxious,maybe they've gotten great
grades but they actually have aton of learning gaps and like
they don't care, they will donothing unless, like you're

(49:14):
using fear to push them.
And Prenda tries to be kind ofthis, like platform of like
personal learning, like personalpurpose and intrinsic
motivation and things like that.
And we just see kids come inand they were doing great in
their traditional classroom andthen they just like plateau and
they just do nothing.
The parents are like it's notworking.

(49:35):
I'm like, well, what do youmean by work?
What is what is working?
Look like to you, because to methis child's going through a
really deep, a deep phase oflike learning and like healing,
about like them being okay andlike just like them feeling
getting the their feet on theground again yeah learning that
it's okay to make mistakes andto not be perfect, and to play

(49:56):
and to be a child yeah, andthings like that.
So like that to me is working.
And then like the academicresults, like you're saying,
like the long game will come.
But it's so hard to trust thatlong game in the moment unless
you're able to tell a differentstory, like in that moment of
like what you are seeing right,which sounds like you're.
This is what you're doing withkids.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
It's beautiful yeah, and every kid is so different
and that's the hardest part toois you can't you have your
teacher tools, and then a newkid will walk in and you
suddenly realize, oh, I need newtools, like the ones that don't
.
And so that can be frustratingtoo.
Is you have multiple kids whoare struggling to even want to
be at school, like that's even ahard place to start.
Yeah, I can.

(50:35):
It can just take a lot of time,especially when it can be
overwhelming to, when you havemultiple kids in the same room
who are like that Cause, thenyou feel you start to question
your own profession.
Then too, like am I making theright choices?
What am I not doing that couldbe better for these kids to
engage?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
I don't know.
Love it.
Okay, my main take home here isjust that I mean so many things
, but something you said earlyon in the conversation.
You said what am I going to doto get these kids to like, want
to be with me?
Which is a very curiousquestion and a lot of it's a
question that a lot of adults,especially in the education
world, never ask.
Right, it's like we show up, wethink we're the tallest person
in the room, we're the adult andhere's what you will do and

(51:17):
like.
The question of like, how can Imake you or encourage you or
invite you into wanting to behere is not something that's on
our radar, but when we lean intocuriosity and observe them,
like as a human that has thisvery like.
I call it, you call it longgame.
I've used the term like longharvest before, like we're
planting seeds now and we're allstressed about no, they're both

(51:38):
good.
Just like the seeds are notcoming.
There's no sprouts.
I'm like, yeah, this seed takes60 to 90 days to sprout.
Like we're going to continue tonourish the seed, you know like
, and like we have faith andtrust that, like, that seed is
in there, there's power in thatseed, there's purpose in that
seed and that if we create theright environment of empathy and
compassion all the things thatyou've taught us today that that
seed will grow.
And I just think that, like, Ijust want to like take all of

(52:02):
like your, your frame, like yourlens on how you seem kids.
I want to like bottle it andlike clone that it's just like
so, so good.
So thank you so much for comingon the Kindle podcast.
Tell us how people can findmore about your work.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Sure, uh well, if you can spell Eicheldinger, you can
find me anywhere, becausethere's not a lot of
Eicheldingers in the world.
So I can't pop up anywhere.
So if you want to learn moreabout my books,
matteicheldingercom has them all.
They're everywhere Books aresold.
If you want to find the storiesI tell, I'm on Facebook,
instagram and TikTok under thehandle at matteeicheldinger and

(52:42):
I'd love to tell you a story.
Come on down.
Hopefully you leave feelingbetter about the world than when
you came.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
I love that.
And our final wrap-up question.
We ask this to every single oneof our guests.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Who is?

Speaker 2 (52:51):
someone in your life that has kindled your love of
learning, your curiosity, yourpassion, or, like your belief in
yourself?
Who is that person that youlook back on and just think like
, oh, that person has seen me,maybe as a child, maybe more
recently.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
I think my wife, my partner, has seen me go through
this long journey of being anauthor and she knows me more
intimately than anyone else andshe is kind of the only person I
see right now, because I'm athome and being an author is kind
of a lonely profession, and sowe were on a date night the
other night, which is as rarewhen you're raising kids you

(53:30):
don't get them that often and Isaid something that I am
learning to love more about youthe more time we spend together
is the depth that we get to knoweach other, and I know that's a
very common phrase in marriage.
You learn that like oh, youalways learn something new, and
that's true, but it's not justlearning something, it's just
learning like the depth thatcomes with it.
And so my wife knows me so wellthat when she looks at me in

(53:53):
the eye she goes do you needlike an hour to go?
Right, are you feeling inspiredright now?
No, one knows me that way, soyou know that's.
That's someone I really look toas this adventure continues.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
I love that.
Thanks for sharing, all right.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on, and we'll talk to you
again soon, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Sounds good.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
The Kindled podcast is brought to you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy to startand run an amazing micro school
based on all the ideas we talkabout here on the Kindled
podcast.
Don't forget to follow us onsocial media at PrendaLearn, and
if you'd like more informationabout starting a micro school,
just go to Prendacom.
Thanks for listening andremember to keep kindling.