September 17, 2025 • 47 mins
Elle Rowley shares her transformative journey from struggling high school student to successful entrepreneur and educational innovator creating alternative learning environments for children in her community. Through personal experience and experimentation, she's developed a thriving microschool model that prioritizes curiosity, community, and child-led learning.
• Finding educational approaches that honor different learning styles and children's natural curiosity
• Creating educational communities that thrive despite philosophical differences among families
• Building Solly Baby as an entrepreneurial "master's program" driven by problem-solving and curiosity
• Converting a barn into a one-room schoolhouse that evolved into multiple campuses
• Allowing children to initiate and lead their own learning projects like plays and community-building
• Focusing on whether education amplifies rather than diminishes a child's natural curiosity
• Starting small with available resources rather than waiting for perfect conditions
About our guest
Elle Rowley is the host of the show Down the Well, founder of the award-winning baby carrier company Solly Baby, and partner at Levin Capital, a private equity fund focusing primarily on female and family-owned businesses. She lives in Bonsall, California with her husband and four children on a backyard farm with a little barn that they have turned into a one room schoolhouse for the community.
Connect with Elle
To learn more about Elle's work, follow her on Instagram @ellerowley or check out her podcast "Down the Well" which explores motherhood as a transformative journey rather than merely a self-sacrificing one.
Got a story to share or question you want us to answer? Send us a message!
About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.
Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.
Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to podcast@prenda.com. Let's dive into the conversation together!
Important links:
• Connect with us on social
• Get our free literacy curriculum
Interested in starting a microschool?
Prenda provides all the tools and support you need to start and run an amazing microschool. Create a free Prenda World account to start designing your future microschool today. More info at ➡️ Prenda.com or if you're ready to get going ➡️ Start My Microschool
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You don't have to agree on everything when you
come together with otherfamilies, and it's better that
you don't.
You don't have to agree on thesame exact curriculum for every
subject and everything.
What has worked the best iswhen these families have been
able to come together with justlove for our kids, love for
(00:22):
keeping their spirits alive, andthat's enough.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello and welcome back for another episode of the
Prenda Podcast.
I'm Kelly Smith, your host forthe day, founder and CEO of
Prenda, and today we'll betalking to Elle Rowley.
Elle is the host of the showDown the Well, founder of the
award-winning baby carriercompany Solly Baby and partner
at Levin Capital, a privateequity fund focusing primarily
(00:47):
on female and family-ownedbusinesses.
She lives in Bonsall,California, with her husband and
four children on a backyardfarm with a little barn that
they have turned into a one-roomschoolhouse for the community.
We're going to have a greatconversation, talking about
Elle's personal journey throughschool and entrepreneurship, but
also what she's done for herown children and kids in her
(01:07):
community as they've createdschools and really opened the
door for a curiosity-ledexperience.
So I'm really excited to divein with Elle.
I hope you enjoy thisconversation.
Elle Rowley, thank you forbeing here on the Printed
Podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So excited to have this conversation.
Your story is inspiring to meand I think it's going to
inspire a lot of people, so I'mexcited to get into it.
Let's start.
You know as far back as youwant to go.
Sometimes I tell stories fromkindergarten, like my personal
kindergarten but your websitehas this funny little quote that
says you barely you quote thisis a quote from your website
barely graduated high school andI would love to just kind of
(01:43):
talk about you as a younglearner and we'll get into kind
of all the great things thatyou've done after that.
But can you kind of take usback in time and give us a feel
for what that was like?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, sure.
So I liked elementary schooldid well, kind of peaked in
elementary school academicallyfor the traditional school
system, I'd say.
And then middle school and highschool.
I just started to I don't knowif I the model.
(02:18):
It was just like a square pegin a round hole.
All of a sudden it just didn't,it didn't work.
Peg in a round hole, all of asudden it just didn't, it didn't
work and I, of course I didn'thave the awareness or
understanding to know what wasreally happening.
And so I thought you know, Ican't keep up anymore, I'm not
smart enough for this.
I knew I had smarts but I waslike it's not here, it doesn't,
(02:39):
those smarts don't work here.
Maybe I don't know.
I heard like the phrase streetsmarts.
I'm like maybe that's it and Iwould just look for any excuse
to not go to school, to stayhome to, I mean, watch TV, do
whatever.
But I also started reading.
I was always a voracious readerand I started staying home to
(03:00):
read a lot, and so my mom kindof didn't know what to do with
me because she's like well,you're reading Les Mis, but
you're failing PE, like how doesthis work together?
I don't know what to do withthis girl and I'm grateful she
just gave me I mean, somefreedom to figure it out.
But yeah, I really struggledacademically in high school.
I had to do night school.
(03:22):
I mean I don't know.
I should look up on mytranscript sometime to see how
low my GPA was, but I think itwas like a two point something.
But luckily I had oldersiblings who were in college and
I.
That gave me a little bit ofvision for like there's some
other, there are other ways oflearning, there are other models
, and maybe this one just isn'tfor me.
(03:42):
And so I knew that I had it inmy head that I was going to go
to college.
Of course I couldn't get intoany school except a community
college, and so I did.
And then I, just being able tocraft my schedule and choose
classes that I was interested in, like I killed it.
Then I was able to getscholarships in college and like
I finally found a little moreof my flow there.
(04:05):
Now, looking back, it'sinteresting.
I'm like well, I have some ADHD, I have a different learning
style.
I needed to be more hands-on.
I needed better teachers whoreally were engaged and
passionate about what they wereteaching.
I needed good books, I neededto be able to write more in a
way that was interesting to me.
And so then I marry my husbandand he has a super similar story
(04:27):
, like very, very similar story.
And so we knew that we wouldwant to do something different
with our kids, and we didn'treally know exactly what that
was going to be, but we justknew, hey, we had a different
learning style and our kids willmost likely have a different
learning style Also.
This world is so big andamazing and there's so much that
(04:48):
we can do.
Now, the internet, just like weknew that the traditional
public school system it has itsplace.
It has a lot of really goodthings about it.
I'm grateful for it, but thepotential for where education
could be and what it can be.
Now we just knew that there wassomething more.
(05:09):
And so, you know, now we have a16-year-old, a 14, 11, and
8-year-old, and we have done allthe things, we have tried all
the things, and I think, whilesome people would look at that
and say you guys are, you know,like, haven't figured it out,
you're inconsistent, you'reruining your kids, you know, by
all the changes, I feel like Imean no parent feels like
(05:31):
they've nailed it.
But I feel like we have lookedaround every year and said what
are the best resources?
What resources do we haveavailable to us, what do our
kids need right now, and doneour best to fill those gaps and
or to to meet those.
It has been amazing.
I, I don't know now we've hadwe can go into this, this, in
(05:52):
this barn right now, where we'vehad a classroom and next door
is another classroom.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
We've done a lot of different things, but it's been.
I definitely want to, wedefinitely want to tell that
story because what you've builtis incredible and I think our
listeners are going to love it.
I mean just to understand thepicture of this.
But yeah, let's like kind ofgoing back in time.
I think one thing that'smiraculous about this story
because I hear versions of thestory a lot where you know the
square peg and the round hole orvice versa and it's it's just
(06:19):
not fitting.
But I think for many people thatfeels to them like a verdict on
them and their value and theirworth and their potential and
their capability and it soundslike somehow miraculously.
That's not the message you gotfrom all of that.
It was more of like I guessthis isn't my place, but you
were able to see kind of overthe, the walls and experience
(06:41):
the.
You know the whole thing whichis life is a lot more than just
you know being here in thisclassroom and doing these things
that the teachers are asking meto do.
So I'm amazed with that.
I don't know.
It sounds like you had somegood mentorship family, siblings
, others but can you point toother reasons why?
Or were you just sort of a bornentrepreneur that maybe just
didn't allow the rules aroundyou to kind of define your own
(07:04):
self-perception, because I thinkthat's a real big problem that
happens a lot for young people.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, I mean I think I mean one I'm glad that you
picked up on the mentorship,because I should speak to that a
little bit more that I havethese two sisters who, when they
were in college, and my oldestsister who's not as like
academic traditionally, but allthree of them, it's three girls,
three boys, and then me and myfamily and those three sisters
they went off to college andlived on their own.
(07:30):
So you know, years before me andthey would send me home books,
like my oldest sister sent mehome and Anna Green Gables home
to me, and that, like changed mylife.
That book changed my life infifth grade.
It's not an overstatement tosay that it really changed me at
my core.
And then my sister Liz sent mePride and Prejudice and and I
(07:53):
just just kept going back at it.
I didn't get it, the languagewas too hard, but I just kept
coming back to it and and that Imean I really owe so much to my
sisters for their mentorshipthrough those years.
They gave me that vision.
I wouldn't have figured thatout on my own.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It's amazing because great literature both of these
obviously are classics but alsodistinguished by strong female
leads, right Like kind of thatspunky Elizabeth Bennet or Anne
that you know are not willing tojust sort of go with the flow.
You know that's almost theirdefining characteristics.
So it's interesting you pickthose two books that were
defining for you.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
That's so true.
Yeah, that's so true.
Well, and I think I mean, maybethat influenced some
entrepreneurial spirit, but Ithink that became more.
You know, necessity is themother of invention, and and
that's where most of the greatthings in my life have come
through what looks like a hardthing, that then was actually
just pushing me to grow andbecome something that, something
(08:56):
that better and, and theentrepreneurship piece.
I think that just knowing likeI just, for whatever reason, I
just do things differently and Idon't.
I had so many jobs before Iquit like literally 30 different
jobs or something.
So from 16 or 15 until I was 22or so, and and I think that
(09:23):
some point people like me justgo.
Well, I guess I'll just startmy own thing because I don't
know how to follow anybodyelse's rules.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah Well, and it could be that you were looking
for for your mountain.
You know what.
We use the analogy a lot withthe kids and even inside of
Prenda where we're saying, look,you know everybody, to find
real meaning and purpose, it'syou really do need a big
mountain, something you'reclimbing, whatever that looks
like, and I'm not here to tellpeople what it is Like.
It doesn't have to getacclaimed from the broader world
(09:51):
.
It's just definitely notmeasured in terms of, you know,
instagram followers or dollarsor any of these things.
But to have something you'rereally striving for is the, you
know, the value we call daregreatly, which is, of course,
borrowing from TheodoreRoosevelt.
But it's this idea of climbing amountain, and one of the things
we talk about is you can climbyour mountain and recognize that
it's the wrong mountain andchange mountains.
(10:12):
So for you to do that 30 times,I'd love for us to switch gears
and just tell this story ofSully Baby.
I'm sure you've told this somany times, but it's a beautiful
thing that you've done and I'msure it feels like a wild ride.
Maybe put an education spin onit, because in some ways, this
(10:34):
was your graduate program on topof all the other maybe less of
a great match with school, butthis seems to be a personalized,
tailored education just for you.
I'm sure it was the hardestthing you've ever done and, you
know, if you can kind of talkabout that experience for our
listeners, that'd be great.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, actually my sister Liz, who sent Pride and
Prejudice and she has a master'sin education.
She's really into alternativeeducation.
But she kept telling me at thebeginning of Solly Baby, this
baby carrier company I started,when I would get really
discouraged or, you know, feltlike it failing or whatever,
she'd say this is your master'sprogram.
At the time that I startedSolly Baby, I'd applied to a
(11:13):
master's degree program at theUniversity of Utah for a
master's in education and I waslike I'm either going to start a
business or I'm going to get mymaster's and I felt you know
more called to to start thisbusiness.
And so she would remind me ofthat and it was really helpful
to.
Sometimes we we want things somuch faster than they come, but
(11:34):
you, you, you need that periodof of learning in any project.
But Solly Baby really startedagain just making necessity,
being the mother of invention.
I started again just makingnecessity, being the mother of
invention.
I made this baby carrier wrapfor my second baby when I was
pregnant with him, solomon Solly, and I had just grabbed, picked
up some fabric from the fabricdistrict in LA I was living in
(11:56):
Utah at the time.
My husband was at the?
U and I made a wrap for myselfand my friend, heather, was
pregnant with her second and Ididn't know I'd done anything.
You know, know that I thought Iwas just being frugal.
But a friend, my sister-in-lawcame over and she was wearing
her baby in a wrap and she feltmine and she's like this is way,
(12:17):
way better than mine, it's somuch lighter weight.
And I was like, well, I don'tknow, I've never used another.
Another wrap I really lovedbaby wearing.
It saved me with my first babywho was really colicky.
And so then the wheels juststarted turning and I think that
I mean to have.
You know, take a look at thisthrough an educational lens.
(12:38):
I think it's that curiositywhich really, like that's what
kills me with any form ofeducation.
Does it do to your child'scuriosity, especially in these
younger years?
And if it's not, if it is notamplifying their curiosity, if
(12:59):
you don't see them becoming morecurious, it's like curiosity is
like that light growing biggerin them and when the curiosity
is, it is a dimming of thespirit.
Not that they shouldn't havechallenges and, you know, go
through those times where it'shard and they have to pull
through, but overall, theirengagement, their interest, I
(13:19):
think is just such a good litmusfor where they are like truly
academically, truly in theirintellectual growth.
But yeah, that curiosity reallyserved me well in the early
days of Solly Baby, because Ijust was just throw I just call
it throwing noodles at the wallphase of just like what's going
(13:41):
to stick.
You know, I wanted to make havesome kind of side hustle job
that I could help support ourfamily while my husband was in
school.
And it's like this wholeinternet, like so Instagram was
had just come.
It hadn't even come out, Idon't think when I first started
.
But in that first year or so Icould see the potential.
(14:03):
Blogging was a thing.
I could see the potential ofthese platforms and had a lot of
friends using them.
And so I just, you know, I waslike, maybe I'll be a blogger,
maybe I'll do surveys online.
That was a good one Got somegift cards and then made this
baby wrap and I was like Etsy, Ithink Etsy, let's just play
(14:23):
with this.
And so bought a Craigslistserger for 50 bucks and taught
myself how to use it.
I knew how to sew but startedmaking these wraps and putting
them on Etsy and could barelysell them for 20 bucks, went to
these handmade local markets inUtah and found that no one wants
to buy baby wrap at a handmademarket.
(14:46):
And then started working withbloggers and that you know now
we call influencers but theythat was.
That was our growth strategythat really worked and my a few
years in, my husband came inwhen he finished school and
instead of his, instead of hisJD MBA program that he was going
(15:07):
to do, we started workingtogether and, and, and that
really helped the business to togrow and take off.
It's kind of been our familybusiness and project for 10 or
11 years, until 2021.
We sold the majority share.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Sold it and got to meet all kinds of interesting
people along the way, and Ithink you would say the most
special of it all is you'rehelping mothers be close to
their babies.
That's something I know you'repassionate about.
I love the focus on curiosityin the story, elle.
I mean it's exactly what'smissing, I think, for so many
people.
I have this experience when mykids were still, you know, doing
(15:50):
kind of traditional school.
My son was in fifth grade and Ihave a physics background.
I studied, like nuclear,nuclear physics, and so they
invited me in.
Somehow my son mentioned thisto the teacher and we're going
to do a lesson about Newton'slaws and it's a physics thing.
And so I got to come and be theguest speaker and I made this
simulation that let them, like,play around with the laws of
(16:14):
motion.
And it was this, it was thislike for me, the whole goal was
to get as much fire burning aswe can, and this is a metaphor
that goes back to Plutarch.
That's just like get the fireto burn, you know, and that was
my goal, right.
And what happened in the roomwas the teacher kept I think she
felt like this was her job,right, she kept doing these like
clapping drills, like to kindof restore order and get kids to
(16:36):
be quiet, and there were likethree or four kids that were
really into it.
But you could tell she didn'tlike these kids Like she, just
they were the bad kids orwhatever.
And so they were engaging, likein the most positive,
productive way that you couldpossibly engage, asking
questions and offering answersand thinking out loud, and I'm
loving it.
And she's literally likescorning these kids in front of
(16:57):
me and I'm thinking, oh no, likethis is, it's the exact
opposite.
And you flip it now.
You know, going back toPlutarch, he said it's either a
fire to be kindled or it's avessel to be filled, like you're
pouring water in a cup.
And she was pouring water onthese little tiny fires and it
just hurt my heart.
You know, again, I don't blameher.
I think she was doing what shefelt like was her job to kind of
(17:19):
maintain order in a room fullof squirmy.
You know fifth graders, but ifyour goal is to ignite curiosity
, to get that spark, to get thefire burning, it was the wrong
thing to do, you know, and itjust felt.
You could feel it, it waspalpable in the room.
So I love that.
Your whole master's degree inentrepreneurship was led by
curiosity, not just about how tosell a carrier, probably, but
(17:43):
how to get followers onInstagram and how to open your
shop on Etsy and how to do.
I'm sure you had a milliondifferent things.
You had to figure out how to do.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, it's all just.
It's all just problem solving,like that's.
I think that that's most ofentrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You know you want a product that you believe in,
that you care about, but thenbeyond that, like, do you just
want to solve problems all day?
And if you do, then you'llprobably be a good entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Do you just want to solve problems all day?
Yeah, I mean, look, I likedmath.
That's basically what math was.
Just give me problems.
I also liked video games as akid, and that was a lot of what
video games are too.
It's just solve problems allthe time.
Let's talk about educationbecause now your kids are are
getting older.
But give us your story of yousaid you've tried all the things
, you've gotten all thereactions from the other parents
(18:32):
around you.
We'll talk a little bit aboutwhere you landed, but can you
walk through a little bit ofyour journey and just share?
You know, what did you try andwhat did you find in the
experience?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Well, preschool is easy and that just needs to be
fun, right, like?
I think that a lot ofpreschools get it right.
It's just like kindergarten.
It should be this, you know,children's garden, and most
preschools feel that way for themost part, you know.
But coming into kindergarten,that's, of course, where the
rubber meets the road for mostof us as parents, and we were so
(19:03):
lucky in that we found a groupof homeschooling moms in San
Diego who had started a littleprivate school.
They've been homeschooling foryears and they were like you
know what, let's just meet at achurch and we'll be the teachers
and take in other kids.
It'll be helpful for our kids.
So I mean, it was essentially,you know, a micro school, but
(19:32):
there were, I think, how many,20 kids that first year, two
classes, and it was an amazingexperience for my daughter.
It was so much of what wewanted.
It was just a few days a week.
Then we moved to Oregon for afew years and in the small town,
not as many resources.
So we did the public school andthat was.
You know, it was a good, it wasa good reminder of why I wanted
(19:57):
to do alternative ed.
But I do think I mean I willsay, like you know, you're
saying this teacher that was,you know, pouring water on these
fires because she had to.
Just classroom management wasthe main goal with this many
kids and that's kind of how theya lot of classrooms have to
survive, except for some reallyexcellent teachers, which there
(20:18):
are.
I mean, thank goodness for them.
But we did not have thatexperience.
But it was.
You know, there's some value tolearning, to learning those
skills and how to be a part of,you know, this bigger system in
classroom.
I just don't think we need todedicate, you know, 13 years to
it for our kids.
Anyway, moving from Oregon, wecame back, went to that school
(20:41):
and back to this private schooland what happened?
There are a few other switchesalong the way, a few other moves
for us, and then, but duringwhen COVID hit, this is probably
our biggest shift when COVIDhit, they were like these, these
teachers were like this is thisis going to be too hard to keep
(21:02):
it afloat.
Online is the last thing in theworld like that.
You know, for this community,how we envision this.
And so we we can't all beisolated like this, learning and
just trying to teach you thisway.
And so we were like, well, Ithink we can just take our
(21:22):
favorite teacher and bring.
We had moved to this property,our family had moved to this
property on three acres and wehave this tack room barn and we
were already redoing it for astudio for Solly baby.
But I was like you know whatthis would make an even better
classroom.
And so we two friends from theschool they, they really
(21:44):
spearheaded this project, andAaron and they, they approached
his teacher, jalene Rios, andsaid would you want to do kind
of a one room school house atElle's house?
And she was like that's alwaysbeen my dream actually.
You know, her kids are grownand she's just this dedicated
teacher.
And so we just that fall.
(22:04):
We started it up here with twoclasses that met on two
different days and mixed ages,and that was amazing.
We did that for two years andit grew so big, actually like
outgrew this space.
We added a second classroom,added another teacher my
husband's aunt who's also waslike just amazing.
(22:26):
And so they moved to anothercampus.
I think that this is like what Iwish more homeschooling.
Parents would hear all the timeLike the change of things.
It sounds like thingsing.
Parents would hear all the timeLike the change of things.
It sounds like things are justgoing wrong all the time and
nothing is stable, but it's likeit's actually just the flow of
things, Like to me.
I'm like this all makes perfectsense.
This was a perfect two yearshere.
(22:46):
It outgrew the space, theyfound a new space, and then the
families that like it grew sobig that those families closer
to the beach they have theircampus, and then the moms just
kind of came back to run thiscampus out here, and so then we
just kind of reorganized againand now for the last two years
we've been, there are eightfamilies and we and it's looked
(23:11):
different every year we just saywhat are the needs?
What are?
What do we need this year?
What kind of community, whatare your kids needing?
And while most of us are doingcore subjects at home, we come
together for community and forart and for a lot of play, and
we had a school newspaper.
(23:32):
You know, just fun things likethat.
So that's where we are now.
My older kids have gone on todifferent charter schools and
now community college and youknow, just looks different.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's amazing and I love your emphasis on yeah it
just.
I think we're conditioned tothink in terms of checklists and
syllabi and it's like goes thisand then this and then this,
and if you're off that trackthen everything's gone wrong.
But I think those of us who'veexperienced life know that
that's not how life works.
You know, even even if you takea more traditional track in a
(24:07):
workplace, you know there's lotsof lateral, horizontal, forward
, back, you know, all over theplace.
So the phrase from a book Ilike called the Startup, of you
really encouraging everybody totake a personal entrepreneurship
approach, and they say therewas an escalator.
Maybe at one point in the pastyou got on the escalator and it
just goes in a predictable way.
(24:27):
But the escalator is jammed.
Is the kind of thesis of thisbook.
Like, don't get on theescalator.
Or, if you're on it, get offand find your way.
You know, find your way through.
And this is not, you know,speaking to people that are
pulling their kids out of school, but it really does apply.
The same logic applies for yourkids as well.
Well, this is great.
Can you talk about some of the?
(24:47):
Yeah, you said you have tolearn.
You had to learn things alongthe way.
Can you talk about some of thebig learnings, as you've been
involved in Orchard School andyou know, as you're reacting to
the needs of the students thathave come up and, I'm sure,
supporting these great teachersthat you've found?
What are some of the?
I don't know if misconceptionsis the right way to phrase it,
but ways you've thought aboutthings in the past that you now
(25:09):
think about them differently.
Just share some of yourlearnings as somebody who's done
this now for a few years.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I think that I mean, oh gosh, so so many good
learnings.
I would say you don't have toagree on everything when you
come together with otherfamilies, and it's better that
you don't.
You don't have to agree on thesame exact curriculum for every
subject and everything, and,like your politics or whatever,
(25:37):
you need to have enough overlap.
But also, I think it's abeautiful thing to get more
diversity in our communities andgroups, and it's hard to do
because, of course, just like,like finds like.
But I think that we, what hasworked the best is when these
(25:57):
families have been able to cometogether with just love for our
kids, love for keeping theirspirits alive, just a commitment
and dedication to that and that, and just some basic philosophy
, and that's enough.
And then I don't know, I don'tknow if that makes sense, but
(26:17):
I've just seen, I've seen a lotof families struggle to find
community and I think it's likewell, you're looking, you're
looking too hard to findyourself, and that's probably
not even the best thing.
And they don't.
Your kids don't have to be bestfriends with the other kids,
and that's actually a good thingtoo, right Like you just learn
(26:39):
to work in in communities thatare a little more organic and
natural in that way, so I thinkthat's been one learning.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
What would you say are the main things?
Like you know, the things thatmatter versus the things that
don't matter.
I think those of us and I'msure lots of people listening
are following the big debates inAmerican education today.
It's often like which types ofbooks and which types of
indoctrination and people aretalking about all of that.
In some ways, it's like, yeah,I understand, because they're my
(27:07):
kids and I want to protect them, but I also have this sense
that, like, I'm going to teachmy kids the things that are most
important.
So, you know, what are theplaces where I can, you know,
maybe say, look, let's, let'sbuild community despite
differences, and you mentionedjust loving kids and wanting
what's best for them.
Does that go to another levelfor you guys?
(27:27):
Or is it sort of like what doesthe website say for Orchard
School?
You know, I guess is maybe oneway to put it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, If we had one, I think it would say.
I think it would say oh man, Iwish I had our like mission
statement that the kids came upwith in here.
It's in the other room, but Ithink there's an adventurous
spirit.
That's a commonality that weall have is a love for learning,
(27:53):
a love for adventure, for doinghard things.
I think we're all trying toraise resilient, resilient kids,
playful, curious kids and, likeyou know, when it comes to math
, we all have different opinionson math.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And so is it good or is it bad.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Actually, yeah, Even to that level, right?
Everyone has different levelsof concern about math, of like
you know.
Some are like, look, this is anoutdated thing, we shouldn't be
spending this much time on.
And others are like I'm marriedto a scientist.
Yeah, you know.
Some are like, look, this is anoutdated thing, we shouldn't be
spending this much time on.
And others are like I'm marriedto a scientist.
Yeah, I really.
We really care, we really valuemath in this house, and both
make sense, right?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think that you can respect that by saying instead
of teaching one math approach,we are going to have a math lab,
and that's what we do.
Is we have math lab, where thenthe parents, you know, we step
in with our kids, we're workingwith them one-on-one during that
time, or two-to-one orthree-to-one, and that's how we
(28:54):
approach that.
But I think, just don't say youknow, this family doesn't
belong in this community becausewe don't read the exact same
books or whatever it's like.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
We all choose one together, right?
That's beautiful.
Thanks for that picture,because I think it does help to
cement like a visual for howthis can work and having
something that binds youtogether.
I think you guys have such apowerful purpose and I know you
didn't read it verbatim, butjust having a mission statement.
I love that the kids made itand it's like this is who we are
, this is what we're about.
(29:27):
Can you share any stories I meanspeaking of the kids just
examples of what we call atPrenda?
We call it empowered learners.
We're really looking forsomebody.
An empowered learner, in myopinion, makes a decision to
learn, so that's connected tothat fire that we've been
talking about.
But they also kind of go thenext step, which is they refine
the skill of a learner.
I think you can hear in yourpersonal story an empowered
(29:48):
learner, because it's somebodywho's curious, who's figuring it
out, who's climbing mountains,who's you know, daily
approaching this behavior oflearning and expanding herself.
And what we're trying to do forkids with Prenda is help every
kid get to that way of being inthe world, and I would love to
hear it sounds like you're doingsomething very similar.
Can you share examples of justtimes where you've seen kids
(30:10):
kind of becoming that empoweredlearner?
I mean?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
to put you on the spot.
I love it when kids, when theycome up with the plan and
they're like, hey, we are doingthis.
Two examples One, my now11-year-old.
Last year, or I guess it wasjust last fall, we had seen the
Broadway play Wicked and she wasreally into it.
And she was like, hey, we'regoing to do a school play.
(30:33):
It's called Wicked.
And she printed off the script.
They had auditions.
All the moms are like wait,what's happening?
And she's like we're going toneed extra rehearsal time.
And the best, um, oh my gosh,what was it?
The best part with that is andwe had family over and and my
(30:54):
husband's aunt said said so,what's, what are you into right
now, frances?
How's school going?
And she said she said, great,we're doing, we're doing a
production.
And she said, oh, really, likethe adults are, is it an adult
play or like the kids are doingthe play?
And she was like it's a play.
She was so offended by likethis distinction of like adult
or children.
She was like like, yeah, I meanthe kids are doing it, but it's
(31:17):
obviously a real production.
I don't get what you're gettingat, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
She had posters, I mean just, and everyone gathered
around and they had problemswithin it.
They figured it out Like and doyou know what's funny, they
never actually performed theplay.
I realized it was like at somepoint it petered off and I was
like it's totally fine, that wasa solid two months of serious
engagement and learning thatthey did to even get to that
(31:44):
point and that's fine.
Like I don't know.
I think it's easy with kids tobe really obsessed with the
results, like so results-drivenin a way that does not actually
match at all where and how muchour kids have been learning and
where they are.
(32:04):
Anyway, I would say the secondexample of that would be last
year.
There's a book called Roxaboxin.
You're in Arizona.
Have you read the bookRoxaboxin the children's book?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I don't think so.
Maybe I need to check this out.
Is it a kid's book?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, it's a really good one.
My husband grew up reading itand these kids out in the desert
they kind of make their own.
It's just a picture book andthey make their own little world
and like a store and likelittle village out of rocks and
sticks and you know, and they'reselling goods, I mean just a
really elaborate game of house.
And so we said behind the barn,here will be their rocks, a box
in area, and you just get, youknow, we said only like natural
(32:52):
material.
So it didn't become a junkyard,still kind of became a junkyard
to the naked eye, but in theirminds it was, you know, they,
they, they had this whole town.
And so I I remember my daughterHazel was seven at the time, she
was the sheriff.
Like they created their wholelike form of government back
(33:14):
there and she was like, yeah,well, holden's been in jail for
the last bit because he keepsbreaking the rules.
And it was just so fascinatingto hear how they all took on
different roles.
There was a cupcake shop andfrom the very youngest to the
11-year-olds they all had aplace in this world that they
created.
I mean you can't actually, youknow, put on paper or put into a
(33:42):
graph or like how much theylearned from that experience.
You just can't.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And the authorship, the self-authorship and the
agency involved.
I mean, one of the thingsyou're seeing more of is people
are programmatically creatingthese things like a whole
business, fair or a business youknow a program, right, and they
teach kids important lessonsabout the way business works and
you get life skills.
But it's all very curated,structured, almost spoon fed to
(34:10):
them and you know what you'redescribing is.
It's almost like the counterversion of that which is
completely created by them andthey walk away with this sense
of like we did this and theyknow.
No one else would know.
I think from the outside, likeyou say, it looks like a
junkyard, it looks like chaos,it looks like kids just
pretending.
So there's this dismissivenessthat the snobbery of the
(34:33):
academic world would say, oh,that's not learning.
But if you actually get into itwith them and you see what's
going on, they're having tosolve problems in what you know,
what the education you knowwriters would call in a
constructivist way, like they'rebuilding it from the ground up,
and there's there's great powerin that, because what that does
is it gets back to this, thisidea of you look around at the
(34:54):
world around you after you'vegraduated.
World just exists the way it isand there's a small number of
people that look at that worldand this is now channeling like
a Steve Jobs quote that talksabout this where you can look at
the world and you can saypeople made this right, the
reason it is this way is becausesomebody like me made it this
(35:14):
way and that means that I canmake it different or I can
change or create or add to it oraffect it, and that's a
superpower just to be able tosee the world that way,
especially in a world where Ithink so many of us are
approaching things verypassively.
Anyway, so love it.
I love both of those stories.
Thank you for sharing andthanks for doing the great work
you're doing.
I want to shift gears a littlebit and talk about other parents
(35:37):
.
I'm sure words out in yourcommunity in Southern California
.
People have heard about this,they're aware of this.
Are you just getting like yourdoor beaten down with interest?
Are people like I want to do it, like what you know?
What kind of response are youseeing?
And what do you say to otherother parents who you know want
to do something like this?
Speaker 1 (35:56):
We.
I have had a lot of moms reachout who wanted to start
something similar in in otherareas and they have.
I know of at least two other ifnot three other kind of barn
schools that have started likethis one, and I think that the
the maybe the biggest hurdle I'mseeing is is finding a space.
We're really lucky to have thisspace that works, you know, and
(36:19):
it's not, but, but we arelimited.
Even you know, here, this isnot a huge room.
The next room over is, you know, and it's not, but but we are
limited.
Even you know, here, this isnot a huge room.
The next room over is, you know, they're both like 10 by 15 or
something.
There's small spaces, but we'rein California so we're like get
outside always, but but so wehave had a lot of interest from
other families but and we try tojust open our doors as much as
(36:41):
possible, but it is just hardbecause of space and we want to
be thoughtful of neighbors andthings and that's that's the
real thing.
We don't want to.
We did outgrow the space beforeand so you know, there's another
school and they were able toone of the amazing families
they're able to buy buy this oldchurch and property as an
investment and and make it sothat they have a bigger space
(37:03):
there and they're absolutelythriving.
It's so cool to see that.
It's so cool because, you know,even though we're so like,
looks like this big breakup ofthe school, you could frame it
that way of like, oh, there'sschoolhouse and there's orchard
house, but it didn't feel likethat at all.
It was like we outgrew thespace and it just very
organically came about.
We're all just like look,nobody is here trying to make
(37:26):
millions of dollars, making anymoney.
We're all spending money to dothis.
We're all just here for ourkids.
And so what's the best thingthat's going to work right now
for, you know, our kids?
And then that's just anextension of our community,
which is a really cool thing.
We still get together withthose families sometimes.
It's cool.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
It's beautiful and it's fun for the kids to be part
of a community like that too,that they feel some ownership in
as well.
They wrote the missionstatement you know, this is my
school.
Yeah, what do you?
I mean, if somebody called youfrom Oregon, from your old
neighborhood, or from Utah,where you used to live, or Texas
I think you have roots in TexasSomebody called you from one of
these places and they're like,oh, what do I do?
(38:06):
I need, like I need exactlythat.
What are you telling them?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I say just start small and people will come.
Start small and people willcome.
It doesn't matter if you, youdon't need to start with some
big space.
We started, you know, with withthis one little room that could
hold 10 kids, maybe 12.
And then we went from there.
If it's at a library and thenyou go to the park, that's fine.
Like it doesn't, it's not aboutthe space.
(38:30):
People get.
Really, I love beautiful placesand spaces and it's fun to make
this, like you know, one room,schoolhouse vision come to life
and it's just like.
I do love that.
But at the same time, that isnot.
What makes it magical is itsnature and its people, and if
you have good, good, nourishingbooks and you really don't need
(38:53):
that much.
And so I would just say, startsmall.
And I've had so many people saybut I don't know other families
, I don't know enoughlike-minded families.
And again, even one of theschools in Northern California
that started from this I thinkit was she was like I'll be the
teacher she was, she's acertified teacher and so she
said it'll just be my kids thisyear, but this is a thing, and
(39:16):
then they're able to grow fromthere.
Now they have multipleclassrooms.
Again, there are a lot of kidsout there and families who are
struggling and they need theseother options and they'll find
you.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
We need 1,000 times as many as we currently have,
and that's something we talkabout a lot too.
It's just how can we get more?
We say micro schools, moremicro schools in the world, that
each one can look different,they can kind of have a
different vibe, but for them tobe creating that option and
hopefully empowering learnersthe way we've been talking about
you know that's the dream.
(39:50):
So if you're listening to Elleright now, do it.
Don't wait on a big, expensivespace.
Get your group together and geta copy of Anne of Green Gables
and go to the park and you'retaking a huge step already.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
And it's amazing what you, that you guys are offering
though this, this kind of basicstructure that that will help
support that startup phase,because it can feel really
overwhelming and it can feellike a lot, and so to have
something that gives you some ofthat basic framework like
Prenda does, I think that thatthat is really special and I'm
so grateful for what you guys doto support families in that way
(40:25):
, to just give it that kickstart, because it's not my full-time
job.
I have only so many hours thatI can devote to this.
I also work and that's thereality for most families, and
you need don't try to do it alland don't think that you have to
teach it all, like people willbe shocked at how little I
personally teach my kids.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, you can own, you can be, you can be
responsible without doing it allyourself, and I think that's
that's the difference is gettingin the headspace, you know, I
think, whether they're in atraditional classroom or you're
creating your very own microschool, you know, you want to be
recognizing, like this is mychild and this is basically
foundational to their life andtheir success and how they're
(41:08):
going to, how they're going tosee themselves in the world.
So I want to be in it, I wantto own it, but that's totally
fine too.
We call it kind of hire out,right?
You can.
You hire people by sending yourkid to their school.
You're hiring them to help youwith this, with their education,
which you're in charge of.
So I love that advice and thankyou for the kind words about
about Prenda as well.
(41:34):
We, I get inspired every time Imeet somebody.
Oftentimes it is that momentwhere they're kind of standing
on the edge of the cliff, youknow, ready to like jump out
into the water below, and itfeels scary, you know, and
they've never done it before.
Maybe they're a former teacherbut they've never run a business
, or maybe they have someentrepreneurial experience but
they never really done education, or maybe neither Right and
they're, you know they're.
They're just kind of like Ithink this is what I, what my
(41:55):
kids need, and I believe thereare others that need it and how
can I do it?
And there is a step into thedarkness there that we try to
hold their hand and help themthrough a little bit, but really
great to have examples likeyours out there for them.
And so, yeah, if you haven'tseen Elle's work, can you give
us kind of a pointer?
Is the best place to go?
To your personal Instagram?
And then I want to ask youabout Down the Well, which is
(42:15):
just a really inspiring movementthat you're starting.
I think you're still prettyearly in that work as well, so
give our listeners where theyshould go to learn more about
you and the work that you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
That's really kind of you, I think.
If you just go, yeah, to myInstagram, which is El Rolly, I
also have a sub stack.
I write a little more there.
I think, like most moms, we'reall trying to spend less time on
social media, and so I don'tpost a ton anywhere, and so what
I do share, I try to make itreally meaningful because I
think, yeah, we could all dowell to spend less time online.
(42:48):
But Down the Well is a YouTubechannel and podcast that I
started just a few months ago.
It's been in the works sincelast fall, but we just launched
it a few months ago and it'sbeen really.
What it's about is supportingmothers through motherhood, but
finding transformation in theirmotherhood.
So often we look at motheringand parenting as really the
(43:12):
self-sacrificing thing that wedo in service to our kids, but
we miss the part that throughthat self-sacrifice and through
that service, we actually, justlike you know it's better to
receive, better to give than toreceive Like we have the
potential through that processto really know ourselves better,
(43:35):
to become higher I don't wantto say better selves, but just
like to reach our own potentialand I think the world is telling
us that, telling moms that tobecome that motherhood requires
you actually become smaller andyou give up your potential, and
that just like, absolutelybreaks my soul and I just you
(43:57):
see it in how few people want tohave kids now.
I mean, 47% of young people areopting out of being parents, and
it's even higher for women, andI think that that just
represents a huge gap innarrative and whether that's,
you know, making it so womendon't want to become moms or the
(44:17):
moms are missing the potentialof that transformation and by
leaning into it harder and Idon't mean being a martyr, but I
mean really recognizing theways that it can move you and
the ways that like being more.
It's not just about being morepresent, but it's about falling
(44:38):
down the well, this proverbialwell that Lisa Marciano's
Jungian analyst lays out thismother's hero's journey so
beautifully and that's a majorpart of it.
It mirrors Joseph Campbell'sjourney of going out.
She's like women.
The heroine's journey is goingdown and I don't think that we
have fully realized that asmothers.
(45:01):
And through this podcast andshow, I just really am hoping to
empower women to choosemotherhood, to double down in it
, to lean into that and to finda lot of joy in it through those
down the well hard moments,knowing that on the other side
of that you are going to comeout as the butterfly every time,
(45:23):
time, if you can approach it ina way that will aid in your
growth with humility,openheartedness and curiosity
and these good qualities thatare sure to bring more treasures
and more light and goodness inyour life.
So that's like it's a loftygoal, but I've had a lot of fun
just studying and digging intoit and sharing what I've learned
along, you know, along my ownjourney.
(45:45):
But that's, that's what I'mdoing.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
It's powerful and beautiful and you've you've, I
think, pitched it well because Ihave looked at some of it in
preparation for thisconversation.
But now I'm ready to go obsessover all of it and this idea of
kind of an alternate version ofthe hero's journey, which I'm
also obsessed with, and just tothink about what that can look
like.
And personally we'reexperiencing this too, where our
(46:08):
kids are growing up and it'slike who are we?
So much of who we are is tiedup in our relation to our
children.
Now it's like, are we emergingthe other side of this journey,
a different person like youwould?
Anyway, so so many questionsand I'm going to be reading and
I may be following up with youknow my own personal questions
for you, but I'll try to not bugyou too much.
(46:29):
Well, rolly, it's been apleasure.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to just chat with us.
Thank you for the work you'vedone and that you continue to do
, and just the goodness thatyou're bringing into the world.
I hope people are listening andjust hearing in you.
You know this courage to takethese actions, take these steps
and be there and, if you'rethinking about it, for kids in
your community, your own kids orother people's kids.
(46:51):
I hope you'll take a minute andgive this thought right and say
I could do this.
I could start a micro school, Icould contribute in my
community as well.
So with that, thank you so muchfor taking the time and I wish
you the very best in everythingyou're doing, going forward.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Thank you so much, kelly.
Thank you for having me.
The Kindled podcast is broughtto you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy to startand run an amazing micro school
based on all the ideas we talkabout here on the Kindled
podcast.
Don't forget to follow us onsocial media at Prenda Learn,
and if you'd like moreinformation about starting a
micro school, just go toPrendacom.
You don't have to agree on everything when you
come together with otherfamilies, and it's better that
you don't.
You don't have to agree on thesame exact curriculum for every
subject and everything.
What has worked the best iswhen these families have been
able to come together with justlove for our kids, love for
(00:22):
keeping their spirits alive, andthat's enough.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello and welcome back for another episode of the
Prenda Podcast.
I'm Kelly Smith, your host forthe day, founder and CEO of
Prenda, and today we'll betalking to Elle Rowley.
Elle is the host of the showDown the Well, founder of the
award-winning baby carriercompany Solly Baby and partner
at Levin Capital, a privateequity fund focusing primarily
(00:47):
on female and family-ownedbusinesses.
She lives in Bonsall,California, with her husband and
four children on a backyardfarm with a little barn that
they have turned into a one-roomschoolhouse for the community.
We're going to have a greatconversation, talking about
Elle's personal journey throughschool and entrepreneurship, but
also what she's done for herown children and kids in her
(01:07):
community as they've createdschools and really opened the
door for a curiosity-ledexperience.
So I'm really excited to divein with Elle.
I hope you enjoy thisconversation.
Elle Rowley, thank you forbeing here on the Printed
Podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So excited to have this conversation.
Your story is inspiring to meand I think it's going to
inspire a lot of people, so I'mexcited to get into it.
Let's start.
You know as far back as youwant to go.
Sometimes I tell stories fromkindergarten, like my personal
kindergarten but your websitehas this funny little quote that
says you barely you quote thisis a quote from your website
barely graduated high school andI would love to just kind of
(01:43):
talk about you as a younglearner and we'll get into kind
of all the great things thatyou've done after that.
But can you kind of take usback in time and give us a feel
for what that was like?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, sure.
So I liked elementary schooldid well, kind of peaked in
elementary school academicallyfor the traditional school
system, I'd say.
And then middle school and highschool.
I just started to I don't knowif I the model.
(02:18):
It was just like a square pegin a round hole.
All of a sudden it just didn't,it didn't work.
Peg in a round hole, all of asudden it just didn't, it didn't
work and I, of course I didn'thave the awareness or
understanding to know what wasreally happening.
And so I thought you know, Ican't keep up anymore, I'm not
smart enough for this.
I knew I had smarts but I waslike it's not here, it doesn't,
(02:39):
those smarts don't work here.
Maybe I don't know.
I heard like the phrase streetsmarts.
I'm like maybe that's it and Iwould just look for any excuse
to not go to school, to stayhome to, I mean, watch TV, do
whatever.
But I also started reading.
I was always a voracious readerand I started staying home to
(03:00):
read a lot, and so my mom kindof didn't know what to do with
me because she's like well,you're reading Les Mis, but
you're failing PE, like how doesthis work together?
I don't know what to do withthis girl and I'm grateful she
just gave me I mean, somefreedom to figure it out.
But yeah, I really struggledacademically in high school.
I had to do night school.
(03:22):
I mean I don't know.
I should look up on mytranscript sometime to see how
low my GPA was, but I think itwas like a two point something.
But luckily I had oldersiblings who were in college and
I.
That gave me a little bit ofvision for like there's some
other, there are other ways oflearning, there are other models
, and maybe this one just isn'tfor me.
(03:42):
And so I knew that I had it inmy head that I was going to go
to college.
Of course I couldn't get intoany school except a community
college, and so I did.
And then I, just being able tocraft my schedule and choose
classes that I was interested in, like I killed it.
Then I was able to getscholarships in college and like
I finally found a little moreof my flow there.
(04:05):
Now, looking back, it'sinteresting.
I'm like well, I have some ADHD, I have a different learning
style.
I needed to be more hands-on.
I needed better teachers whoreally were engaged and
passionate about what they wereteaching.
I needed good books, I neededto be able to write more in a
way that was interesting to me.
And so then I marry my husbandand he has a super similar story
(04:27):
, like very, very similar story.
And so we knew that we wouldwant to do something different
with our kids, and we didn'treally know exactly what that
was going to be, but we justknew, hey, we had a different
learning style and our kids willmost likely have a different
learning style Also.
This world is so big andamazing and there's so much that
(04:48):
we can do.
Now, the internet, just like weknew that the traditional
public school system it has itsplace.
It has a lot of really goodthings about it.
I'm grateful for it, but thepotential for where education
could be and what it can be.
Now we just knew that there wassomething more.
(05:09):
And so, you know, now we have a16-year-old, a 14, 11, and
8-year-old, and we have done allthe things, we have tried all
the things, and I think, whilesome people would look at that
and say you guys are, you know,like, haven't figured it out,
you're inconsistent, you'reruining your kids, you know, by
all the changes, I feel like Imean no parent feels like
(05:31):
they've nailed it.
But I feel like we have lookedaround every year and said what
are the best resources?
What resources do we haveavailable to us, what do our
kids need right now, and doneour best to fill those gaps and
or to to meet those.
It has been amazing.
I, I don't know now we've hadwe can go into this, this, in
(05:52):
this barn right now, where we'vehad a classroom and next door
is another classroom.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
We've done a lot of different things, but it's been.
I definitely want to, wedefinitely want to tell that
story because what you've builtis incredible and I think our
listeners are going to love it.
I mean just to understand thepicture of this.
But yeah, let's like kind ofgoing back in time.
I think one thing that'smiraculous about this story
because I hear versions of thestory a lot where you know the
square peg and the round hole orvice versa and it's it's just
(06:19):
not fitting.
But I think for many people thatfeels to them like a verdict on
them and their value and theirworth and their potential and
their capability and it soundslike somehow miraculously.
That's not the message you gotfrom all of that.
It was more of like I guessthis isn't my place, but you
were able to see kind of overthe, the walls and experience
(06:41):
the.
You know the whole thing whichis life is a lot more than just
you know being here in thisclassroom and doing these things
that the teachers are asking meto do.
So I'm amazed with that.
I don't know.
It sounds like you had somegood mentorship family, siblings
, others but can you point toother reasons why?
Or were you just sort of a bornentrepreneur that maybe just
didn't allow the rules aroundyou to kind of define your own
(07:04):
self-perception, because I thinkthat's a real big problem that
happens a lot for young people.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, I mean I think I mean one I'm glad that you
picked up on the mentorship,because I should speak to that a
little bit more that I havethese two sisters who, when they
were in college, and my oldestsister who's not as like
academic traditionally, but allthree of them, it's three girls,
three boys, and then me and myfamily and those three sisters
they went off to college andlived on their own.
(07:30):
So you know, years before me andthey would send me home books,
like my oldest sister sent mehome and Anna Green Gables home
to me, and that, like changed mylife.
That book changed my life infifth grade.
It's not an overstatement tosay that it really changed me at
my core.
And then my sister Liz sent mePride and Prejudice and and I
(07:53):
just just kept going back at it.
I didn't get it, the languagewas too hard, but I just kept
coming back to it and and that Imean I really owe so much to my
sisters for their mentorshipthrough those years.
They gave me that vision.
I wouldn't have figured thatout on my own.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It's amazing because great literature both of these
obviously are classics but alsodistinguished by strong female
leads, right Like kind of thatspunky Elizabeth Bennet or Anne
that you know are not willing tojust sort of go with the flow.
You know that's almost theirdefining characteristics.
So it's interesting you pickthose two books that were
defining for you.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
That's so true.
Yeah, that's so true.
Well, and I think I mean, maybethat influenced some
entrepreneurial spirit, but Ithink that became more.
You know, necessity is themother of invention, and and
that's where most of the greatthings in my life have come
through what looks like a hardthing, that then was actually
just pushing me to grow andbecome something that, something
(08:56):
that better and, and theentrepreneurship piece.
I think that just knowing likeI just, for whatever reason, I
just do things differently and Idon't.
I had so many jobs before Iquit like literally 30 different
jobs or something.
So from 16 or 15 until I was 22or so, and and I think that
(09:23):
some point people like me justgo.
Well, I guess I'll just startmy own thing because I don't
know how to follow anybodyelse's rules.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah Well, and it could be that you were looking
for for your mountain.
You know what.
We use the analogy a lot withthe kids and even inside of
Prenda where we're saying, look,you know everybody, to find
real meaning and purpose, it'syou really do need a big
mountain, something you'reclimbing, whatever that looks
like, and I'm not here to tellpeople what it is Like.
It doesn't have to getacclaimed from the broader world
(09:51):
.
It's just definitely notmeasured in terms of, you know,
instagram followers or dollarsor any of these things.
But to have something you'rereally striving for is the, you
know, the value we call daregreatly, which is, of course,
borrowing from TheodoreRoosevelt.
But it's this idea of climbing amountain, and one of the things
we talk about is you can climbyour mountain and recognize that
it's the wrong mountain andchange mountains.
(10:12):
So for you to do that 30 times,I'd love for us to switch gears
and just tell this story ofSully Baby.
I'm sure you've told this somany times, but it's a beautiful
thing that you've done and I'msure it feels like a wild ride.
Maybe put an education spin onit, because in some ways, this
(10:34):
was your graduate program on topof all the other maybe less of
a great match with school, butthis seems to be a personalized,
tailored education just for you.
I'm sure it was the hardestthing you've ever done and, you
know, if you can kind of talkabout that experience for our
listeners, that'd be great.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, actually my sister Liz, who sent Pride and
Prejudice and she has a master'sin education.
She's really into alternativeeducation.
But she kept telling me at thebeginning of Solly Baby, this
baby carrier company I started,when I would get really
discouraged or, you know, feltlike it failing or whatever,
she'd say this is your master'sprogram.
At the time that I startedSolly Baby, I'd applied to a
(11:13):
master's degree program at theUniversity of Utah for a
master's in education and I waslike I'm either going to start a
business or I'm going to get mymaster's and I felt you know
more called to to start thisbusiness.
And so she would remind me ofthat and it was really helpful
to.
Sometimes we we want things somuch faster than they come, but
(11:34):
you, you, you need that periodof of learning in any project.
But Solly Baby really startedagain just making necessity,
being the mother of invention.
I started again just makingnecessity, being the mother of
invention.
I made this baby carrier wrapfor my second baby when I was
pregnant with him, solomon Solly, and I had just grabbed, picked
up some fabric from the fabricdistrict in LA I was living in
(11:56):
Utah at the time.
My husband was at the?
U and I made a wrap for myselfand my friend, heather, was
pregnant with her second and Ididn't know I'd done anything.
You know, know that I thought Iwas just being frugal.
But a friend, my sister-in-lawcame over and she was wearing
her baby in a wrap and she feltmine and she's like this is way,
(12:17):
way better than mine, it's somuch lighter weight.
And I was like, well, I don'tknow, I've never used another.
Another wrap I really lovedbaby wearing.
It saved me with my first babywho was really colicky.
And so then the wheels juststarted turning and I think that
I mean to have.
You know, take a look at thisthrough an educational lens.
(12:38):
I think it's that curiositywhich really, like that's what
kills me with any form ofeducation.
Does it do to your child'scuriosity, especially in these
younger years?
And if it's not, if it is notamplifying their curiosity, if
(12:59):
you don't see them becoming morecurious, it's like curiosity is
like that light growing biggerin them and when the curiosity
is, it is a dimming of thespirit.
Not that they shouldn't havechallenges and, you know, go
through those times where it'shard and they have to pull
through, but overall, theirengagement, their interest, I
(13:19):
think is just such a good litmusfor where they are like truly
academically, truly in theirintellectual growth.
But yeah, that curiosity reallyserved me well in the early
days of Solly Baby, because Ijust was just throw I just call
it throwing noodles at the wallphase of just like what's going
(13:41):
to stick.
You know, I wanted to make havesome kind of side hustle job
that I could help support ourfamily while my husband was in
school.
And it's like this wholeinternet, like so Instagram was
had just come.
It hadn't even come out, Idon't think when I first started
.
But in that first year or so Icould see the potential.
(14:03):
Blogging was a thing.
I could see the potential ofthese platforms and had a lot of
friends using them.
And so I just, you know, I waslike, maybe I'll be a blogger,
maybe I'll do surveys online.
That was a good one Got somegift cards and then made this
baby wrap and I was like Etsy, Ithink Etsy, let's just play
(14:23):
with this.
And so bought a Craigslistserger for 50 bucks and taught
myself how to use it.
I knew how to sew but startedmaking these wraps and putting
them on Etsy and could barelysell them for 20 bucks, went to
these handmade local markets inUtah and found that no one wants
to buy baby wrap at a handmademarket.
(14:46):
And then started working withbloggers and that you know now
we call influencers but theythat was.
That was our growth strategythat really worked and my a few
years in, my husband came inwhen he finished school and
instead of his, instead of hisJD MBA program that he was going
(15:07):
to do, we started workingtogether and, and, and that
really helped the business to togrow and take off.
It's kind of been our familybusiness and project for 10 or
11 years, until 2021.
We sold the majority share.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Sold it and got to meet all kinds of interesting
people along the way, and Ithink you would say the most
special of it all is you'rehelping mothers be close to
their babies.
That's something I know you'repassionate about.
I love the focus on curiosityin the story, elle.
I mean it's exactly what'smissing, I think, for so many
people.
I have this experience when mykids were still, you know, doing
(15:50):
kind of traditional school.
My son was in fifth grade and Ihave a physics background.
I studied, like nuclear,nuclear physics, and so they
invited me in.
Somehow my son mentioned thisto the teacher and we're going
to do a lesson about Newton'slaws and it's a physics thing.
And so I got to come and be theguest speaker and I made this
simulation that let them, like,play around with the laws of
(16:14):
motion.
And it was this, it was thislike for me, the whole goal was
to get as much fire burning aswe can, and this is a metaphor
that goes back to Plutarch.
That's just like get the fireto burn, you know, and that was
my goal, right.
And what happened in the roomwas the teacher kept I think she
felt like this was her job,right, she kept doing these like
clapping drills, like to kindof restore order and get kids to
(16:36):
be quiet, and there were likethree or four kids that were
really into it.
But you could tell she didn'tlike these kids Like she, just
they were the bad kids orwhatever.
And so they were engaging, likein the most positive,
productive way that you couldpossibly engage, asking
questions and offering answersand thinking out loud, and I'm
loving it.
And she's literally likescorning these kids in front of
(16:57):
me and I'm thinking, oh no, likethis is, it's the exact
opposite.
And you flip it now.
You know, going back toPlutarch, he said it's either a
fire to be kindled or it's avessel to be filled, like you're
pouring water in a cup.
And she was pouring water onthese little tiny fires and it
just hurt my heart.
You know, again, I don't blameher.
I think she was doing what shefelt like was her job to kind of
(17:19):
maintain order in a room fullof squirmy.
You know fifth graders, but ifyour goal is to ignite curiosity
, to get that spark, to get thefire burning, it was the wrong
thing to do, you know, and itjust felt.
You could feel it, it waspalpable in the room.
So I love that.
Your whole master's degree inentrepreneurship was led by
curiosity, not just about how tosell a carrier, probably, but
(17:43):
how to get followers onInstagram and how to open your
shop on Etsy and how to do.
I'm sure you had a milliondifferent things.
You had to figure out how to do.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, it's all just.
It's all just problem solving,like that's.
I think that that's most ofentrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You know you want a product that you believe in,
that you care about, but thenbeyond that, like, do you just
want to solve problems all day?
And if you do, then you'llprobably be a good entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Do you just want to solve problems all day?
Yeah, I mean, look, I likedmath.
That's basically what math was.
Just give me problems.
I also liked video games as akid, and that was a lot of what
video games are too.
It's just solve problems allthe time.
Let's talk about educationbecause now your kids are are
getting older.
But give us your story of yousaid you've tried all the things
, you've gotten all thereactions from the other parents
(18:32):
around you.
We'll talk a little bit aboutwhere you landed, but can you
walk through a little bit ofyour journey and just share?
You know, what did you try andwhat did you find in the
experience?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Well, preschool is easy and that just needs to be
fun, right, like?
I think that a lot ofpreschools get it right.
It's just like kindergarten.
It should be this, you know,children's garden, and most
preschools feel that way for themost part, you know.
But coming into kindergarten,that's, of course, where the
rubber meets the road for mostof us as parents, and we were so
(19:03):
lucky in that we found a groupof homeschooling moms in San
Diego who had started a littleprivate school.
They've been homeschooling foryears and they were like you
know what, let's just meet at achurch and we'll be the teachers
and take in other kids.
It'll be helpful for our kids.
So I mean, it was essentially,you know, a micro school, but
(19:32):
there were, I think, how many,20 kids that first year, two
classes, and it was an amazingexperience for my daughter.
It was so much of what wewanted.
It was just a few days a week.
Then we moved to Oregon for afew years and in the small town,
not as many resources.
So we did the public school andthat was.
You know, it was a good, it wasa good reminder of why I wanted
(19:57):
to do alternative ed.
But I do think I mean I willsay, like you know, you're
saying this teacher that was,you know, pouring water on these
fires because she had to.
Just classroom management wasthe main goal with this many
kids and that's kind of how theya lot of classrooms have to
survive, except for some reallyexcellent teachers, which there
(20:18):
are.
I mean, thank goodness for them.
But we did not have thatexperience.
But it was.
You know, there's some value tolearning, to learning those
skills and how to be a part of,you know, this bigger system in
classroom.
I just don't think we need todedicate, you know, 13 years to
it for our kids.
Anyway, moving from Oregon, wecame back, went to that school
(20:41):
and back to this private schooland what happened?
There are a few other switchesalong the way, a few other moves
for us, and then, but duringwhen COVID hit, this is probably
our biggest shift when COVIDhit, they were like these, these
teachers were like this is thisis going to be too hard to keep
(21:02):
it afloat.
Online is the last thing in theworld like that.
You know, for this community,how we envision this.
And so we we can't all beisolated like this, learning and
just trying to teach you thisway.
And so we were like, well, Ithink we can just take our
(21:22):
favorite teacher and bring.
We had moved to this property,our family had moved to this
property on three acres and wehave this tack room barn and we
were already redoing it for astudio for Solly baby.
But I was like you know whatthis would make an even better
classroom.
And so we two friends from theschool they, they really
(21:44):
spearheaded this project, andAaron and they, they approached
his teacher, jalene Rios, andsaid would you want to do kind
of a one room school house atElle's house?
And she was like that's alwaysbeen my dream actually.
You know, her kids are grownand she's just this dedicated
teacher.
And so we just that fall.
(22:04):
We started it up here with twoclasses that met on two
different days and mixed ages,and that was amazing.
We did that for two years andit grew so big, actually like
outgrew this space.
We added a second classroom,added another teacher my
husband's aunt who's also waslike just amazing.
(22:26):
And so they moved to anothercampus.
I think that this is like what Iwish more homeschooling.
Parents would hear all the timeLike the change of things.
It sounds like thingsing.
Parents would hear all the timeLike the change of things.
It sounds like things are justgoing wrong all the time and
nothing is stable, but it's likeit's actually just the flow of
things, Like to me.
I'm like this all makes perfectsense.
This was a perfect two yearshere.
(22:46):
It outgrew the space, theyfound a new space, and then the
families that like it grew sobig that those families closer
to the beach they have theircampus, and then the moms just
kind of came back to run thiscampus out here, and so then we
just kind of reorganized againand now for the last two years
we've been, there are eightfamilies and we and it's looked
(23:11):
different every year we just saywhat are the needs?
What are?
What do we need this year?
What kind of community, whatare your kids needing?
And while most of us are doingcore subjects at home, we come
together for community and forart and for a lot of play, and
we had a school newspaper.
(23:32):
You know, just fun things likethat.
So that's where we are now.
My older kids have gone on todifferent charter schools and
now community college and youknow, just looks different.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's amazing and I love your emphasis on yeah it
just.
I think we're conditioned tothink in terms of checklists and
syllabi and it's like goes thisand then this and then this,
and if you're off that trackthen everything's gone wrong.
But I think those of us who'veexperienced life know that
that's not how life works.
You know, even even if you takea more traditional track in a
(24:07):
workplace, you know there's lotsof lateral, horizontal, forward
, back, you know, all over theplace.
So the phrase from a book Ilike called the Startup, of you
really encouraging everybody totake a personal entrepreneurship
approach, and they say therewas an escalator.
Maybe at one point in the pastyou got on the escalator and it
just goes in a predictable way.
(24:27):
But the escalator is jammed.
Is the kind of thesis of thisbook.
Like, don't get on theescalator.
Or, if you're on it, get offand find your way.
You know, find your way through.
And this is not, you know,speaking to people that are
pulling their kids out of school, but it really does apply.
The same logic applies for yourkids as well.
Well, this is great.
Can you talk about some of the?
(24:47):
Yeah, you said you have tolearn.
You had to learn things alongthe way.
Can you talk about some of thebig learnings, as you've been
involved in Orchard School andyou know, as you're reacting to
the needs of the students thathave come up and, I'm sure,
supporting these great teachersthat you've found?
What are some of the?
I don't know if misconceptionsis the right way to phrase it,
but ways you've thought aboutthings in the past that you now
(25:09):
think about them differently.
Just share some of yourlearnings as somebody who's done
this now for a few years.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I think that I mean, oh gosh, so so many good
learnings.
I would say you don't have toagree on everything when you
come together with otherfamilies, and it's better that
you don't.
You don't have to agree on thesame exact curriculum for every
subject and everything, and,like your politics or whatever,
(25:37):
you need to have enough overlap.
But also, I think it's abeautiful thing to get more
diversity in our communities andgroups, and it's hard to do
because, of course, just like,like finds like.
But I think that we, what hasworked the best is when these
(25:57):
families have been able to cometogether with just love for our
kids, love for keeping theirspirits alive, just a commitment
and dedication to that and that, and just some basic philosophy
, and that's enough.
And then I don't know, I don'tknow if that makes sense, but
(26:17):
I've just seen, I've seen a lotof families struggle to find
community and I think it's likewell, you're looking, you're
looking too hard to findyourself, and that's probably
not even the best thing.
And they don't.
Your kids don't have to be bestfriends with the other kids,
and that's actually a good thingtoo, right Like you just learn
(26:39):
to work in in communities thatare a little more organic and
natural in that way, so I thinkthat's been one learning.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
What would you say are the main things?
Like you know, the things thatmatter versus the things that
don't matter.
I think those of us and I'msure lots of people listening
are following the big debates inAmerican education today.
It's often like which types ofbooks and which types of
indoctrination and people aretalking about all of that.
In some ways, it's like, yeah,I understand, because they're my
(27:07):
kids and I want to protect them, but I also have this sense
that, like, I'm going to teachmy kids the things that are most
important.
So, you know, what are theplaces where I can, you know,
maybe say, look, let's, let'sbuild community despite
differences, and you mentionedjust loving kids and wanting
what's best for them.
Does that go to another levelfor you guys?
(27:27):
Or is it sort of like what doesthe website say for Orchard
School?
You know, I guess is maybe oneway to put it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, If we had one, I think it would say.
I think it would say oh man, Iwish I had our like mission
statement that the kids came upwith in here.
It's in the other room, but Ithink there's an adventurous
spirit.
That's a commonality that weall have is a love for learning,
(27:53):
a love for adventure, for doinghard things.
I think we're all trying toraise resilient, resilient kids,
playful, curious kids and, likeyou know, when it comes to math
, we all have different opinionson math.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And so is it good or is it bad.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Actually, yeah, Even to that level, right?
Everyone has different levelsof concern about math, of like
you know.
Some are like, look, this is anoutdated thing, we shouldn't be
spending this much time on.
And others are like I'm marriedto a scientist.
Yeah, you know.
Some are like, look, this is anoutdated thing, we shouldn't be
spending this much time on.
And others are like I'm marriedto a scientist.
Yeah, I really.
We really care, we really valuemath in this house, and both
make sense, right?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think that you can respect that by saying instead
of teaching one math approach,we are going to have a math lab,
and that's what we do.
Is we have math lab, where thenthe parents, you know, we step
in with our kids, we're workingwith them one-on-one during that
time, or two-to-one orthree-to-one, and that's how we
(28:54):
approach that.
But I think, just don't say youknow, this family doesn't
belong in this community becausewe don't read the exact same
books or whatever it's like.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
We all choose one together, right?
That's beautiful.
Thanks for that picture,because I think it does help to
cement like a visual for howthis can work and having
something that binds youtogether.
I think you guys have such apowerful purpose and I know you
didn't read it verbatim, butjust having a mission statement.
I love that the kids made itand it's like this is who we are
, this is what we're about.
(29:27):
Can you share any stories I meanspeaking of the kids just
examples of what we call atPrenda?
We call it empowered learners.
We're really looking forsomebody.
An empowered learner, in myopinion, makes a decision to
learn, so that's connected tothat fire that we've been
talking about.
But they also kind of go thenext step, which is they refine
the skill of a learner.
I think you can hear in yourpersonal story an empowered
(29:48):
learner, because it's somebodywho's curious, who's figuring it
out, who's climbing mountains,who's you know, daily
approaching this behavior oflearning and expanding herself.
And what we're trying to do forkids with Prenda is help every
kid get to that way of being inthe world, and I would love to
hear it sounds like you're doingsomething very similar.
Can you share examples of justtimes where you've seen kids
(30:10):
kind of becoming that empoweredlearner?
I mean?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
to put you on the spot.
I love it when kids, when theycome up with the plan and
they're like, hey, we are doingthis.
Two examples One, my now11-year-old.
Last year, or I guess it wasjust last fall, we had seen the
Broadway play Wicked and she wasreally into it.
And she was like, hey, we'regoing to do a school play.
(30:33):
It's called Wicked.
And she printed off the script.
They had auditions.
All the moms are like wait,what's happening?
And she's like we're going toneed extra rehearsal time.
And the best, um, oh my gosh,what was it?
The best part with that is andwe had family over and and my
(30:54):
husband's aunt said said so,what's, what are you into right
now, frances?
How's school going?
And she said she said, great,we're doing, we're doing a
production.
And she said, oh, really, likethe adults are, is it an adult
play or like the kids are doingthe play?
And she was like it's a play.
She was so offended by likethis distinction of like adult
or children.
She was like like, yeah, I meanthe kids are doing it, but it's
(31:17):
obviously a real production.
I don't get what you're gettingat, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
She had posters, I mean just, and everyone gathered
around and they had problemswithin it.
They figured it out Like and doyou know what's funny, they
never actually performed theplay.
I realized it was like at somepoint it petered off and I was
like it's totally fine, that wasa solid two months of serious
engagement and learning thatthey did to even get to that
(31:44):
point and that's fine.
Like I don't know.
I think it's easy with kids tobe really obsessed with the
results, like so results-drivenin a way that does not actually
match at all where and how muchour kids have been learning and
where they are.
(32:04):
Anyway, I would say the secondexample of that would be last
year.
There's a book called Roxaboxin.
You're in Arizona.
Have you read the bookRoxaboxin the children's book?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I don't think so.
Maybe I need to check this out.
Is it a kid's book?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, it's a really good one.
My husband grew up reading itand these kids out in the desert
they kind of make their own.
It's just a picture book andthey make their own little world
and like a store and likelittle village out of rocks and
sticks and you know, and they'reselling goods, I mean just a
really elaborate game of house.
And so we said behind the barn,here will be their rocks, a box
in area, and you just get, youknow, we said only like natural
(32:52):
material.
So it didn't become a junkyard,still kind of became a junkyard
to the naked eye, but in theirminds it was, you know, they,
they, they had this whole town.
And so I I remember my daughterHazel was seven at the time, she
was the sheriff.
Like they created their wholelike form of government back
(33:14):
there and she was like, yeah,well, holden's been in jail for
the last bit because he keepsbreaking the rules.
And it was just so fascinatingto hear how they all took on
different roles.
There was a cupcake shop andfrom the very youngest to the
11-year-olds they all had aplace in this world that they
created.
I mean you can't actually, youknow, put on paper or put into a
(33:42):
graph or like how much theylearned from that experience.
You just can't.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And the authorship, the self-authorship and the
agency involved.
I mean, one of the thingsyou're seeing more of is people
are programmatically creatingthese things like a whole
business, fair or a business youknow a program, right, and they
teach kids important lessonsabout the way business works and
you get life skills.
But it's all very curated,structured, almost spoon fed to
(34:10):
them and you know what you'redescribing is.
It's almost like the counterversion of that which is
completely created by them andthey walk away with this sense
of like we did this and theyknow.
No one else would know.
I think from the outside, likeyou say, it looks like a
junkyard, it looks like chaos,it looks like kids just
pretending.
So there's this dismissivenessthat the snobbery of the
(34:33):
academic world would say, oh,that's not learning.
But if you actually get into itwith them and you see what's
going on, they're having tosolve problems in what you know,
what the education you knowwriters would call in a
constructivist way, like they'rebuilding it from the ground up,
and there's there's great powerin that, because what that does
is it gets back to this, thisidea of you look around at the
(34:54):
world around you after you'vegraduated.
World just exists the way it isand there's a small number of
people that look at that worldand this is now channeling like
a Steve Jobs quote that talksabout this where you can look at
the world and you can saypeople made this right, the
reason it is this way is becausesomebody like me made it this
(35:14):
way and that means that I canmake it different or I can
change or create or add to it oraffect it, and that's a
superpower just to be able tosee the world that way,
especially in a world where Ithink so many of us are
approaching things verypassively.
Anyway, so love it.
I love both of those stories.
Thank you for sharing andthanks for doing the great work
you're doing.
I want to shift gears a littlebit and talk about other parents
(35:37):
.
I'm sure words out in yourcommunity in Southern California
.
People have heard about this,they're aware of this.
Are you just getting like yourdoor beaten down with interest?
Are people like I want to do it, like what you know?
What kind of response are youseeing?
And what do you say to otherother parents who you know want
to do something like this?
Speaker 1 (35:56):
We.
I have had a lot of moms reachout who wanted to start
something similar in in otherareas and they have.
I know of at least two other ifnot three other kind of barn
schools that have started likethis one, and I think that the
the maybe the biggest hurdle I'mseeing is is finding a space.
We're really lucky to have thisspace that works, you know, and
(36:19):
it's not, but, but we arelimited.
Even you know, here, this isnot a huge room.
The next room over is, you know, and it's not, but but we are
limited.
Even you know, here, this isnot a huge room.
The next room over is, you know, they're both like 10 by 15 or
something.
There's small spaces, but we'rein California so we're like get
outside always, but but so wehave had a lot of interest from
other families but and we try tojust open our doors as much as
(36:41):
possible, but it is just hardbecause of space and we want to
be thoughtful of neighbors andthings and that's that's the
real thing.
We don't want to.
We did outgrow the space beforeand so you know, there's another
school and they were able toone of the amazing families
they're able to buy buy this oldchurch and property as an
investment and and make it sothat they have a bigger space
(37:03):
there and they're absolutelythriving.
It's so cool to see that.
It's so cool because, you know,even though we're so like,
looks like this big breakup ofthe school, you could frame it
that way of like, oh, there'sschoolhouse and there's orchard
house, but it didn't feel likethat at all.
It was like we outgrew thespace and it just very
organically came about.
We're all just like look,nobody is here trying to make
(37:26):
millions of dollars, making anymoney.
We're all spending money to dothis.
We're all just here for ourkids.
And so what's the best thingthat's going to work right now
for, you know, our kids?
And then that's just anextension of our community,
which is a really cool thing.
We still get together withthose families sometimes.
It's cool.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
It's beautiful and it's fun for the kids to be part
of a community like that too,that they feel some ownership in
as well.
They wrote the missionstatement you know, this is my
school.
Yeah, what do you?
I mean, if somebody called youfrom Oregon, from your old
neighborhood, or from Utah,where you used to live, or Texas
I think you have roots in TexasSomebody called you from one of
these places and they're like,oh, what do I do?
(38:06):
I need, like I need exactlythat.
What are you telling them?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I say just start small and people will come.
Start small and people willcome.
It doesn't matter if you, youdon't need to start with some
big space.
We started, you know, with withthis one little room that could
hold 10 kids, maybe 12.
And then we went from there.
If it's at a library and thenyou go to the park, that's fine.
Like it doesn't, it's not aboutthe space.
(38:30):
People get.
Really, I love beautiful placesand spaces and it's fun to make
this, like you know, one room,schoolhouse vision come to life
and it's just like.
I do love that.
But at the same time, that isnot.
What makes it magical is itsnature and its people, and if
you have good, good, nourishingbooks and you really don't need
(38:53):
that much.
And so I would just say, startsmall.
And I've had so many people saybut I don't know other families
, I don't know enoughlike-minded families.
And again, even one of theschools in Northern California
that started from this I thinkit was she was like I'll be the
teacher she was, she's acertified teacher and so she
said it'll just be my kids thisyear, but this is a thing, and
(39:16):
then they're able to grow fromthere.
Now they have multipleclassrooms.
Again, there are a lot of kidsout there and families who are
struggling and they need theseother options and they'll find
you.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
We need 1,000 times as many as we currently have,
and that's something we talkabout a lot too.
It's just how can we get more?
We say micro schools, moremicro schools in the world, that
each one can look different,they can kind of have a
different vibe, but for them tobe creating that option and
hopefully empowering learnersthe way we've been talking about
you know that's the dream.
(39:50):
So if you're listening to Elleright now, do it.
Don't wait on a big, expensivespace.
Get your group together and geta copy of Anne of Green Gables
and go to the park and you'retaking a huge step already.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
And it's amazing what you, that you guys are offering
though this, this kind of basicstructure that that will help
support that startup phase,because it can feel really
overwhelming and it can feellike a lot, and so to have
something that gives you some ofthat basic framework like
Prenda does, I think that thatthat is really special and I'm
so grateful for what you guys doto support families in that way
(40:25):
, to just give it that kickstart, because it's not my full-time
job.
I have only so many hours thatI can devote to this.
I also work and that's thereality for most families, and
you need don't try to do it alland don't think that you have to
teach it all, like people willbe shocked at how little I
personally teach my kids.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, you can own, you can be, you can be
responsible without doing it allyourself, and I think that's
that's the difference is gettingin the headspace, you know, I
think, whether they're in atraditional classroom or you're
creating your very own microschool, you know, you want to be
recognizing, like this is mychild and this is basically
foundational to their life andtheir success and how they're
(41:08):
going to, how they're going tosee themselves in the world.
So I want to be in it, I wantto own it, but that's totally
fine too.
We call it kind of hire out,right?
You can.
You hire people by sending yourkid to their school.
You're hiring them to help youwith this, with their education,
which you're in charge of.
So I love that advice and thankyou for the kind words about
about Prenda as well.
(41:34):
We, I get inspired every time Imeet somebody.
Oftentimes it is that momentwhere they're kind of standing
on the edge of the cliff, youknow, ready to like jump out
into the water below, and itfeels scary, you know, and
they've never done it before.
Maybe they're a former teacherbut they've never run a business
, or maybe they have someentrepreneurial experience but
they never really done education, or maybe neither Right and
they're, you know they're.
They're just kind of like Ithink this is what I, what my
(41:55):
kids need, and I believe thereare others that need it and how
can I do it?
And there is a step into thedarkness there that we try to
hold their hand and help themthrough a little bit, but really
great to have examples likeyours out there for them.
And so, yeah, if you haven'tseen Elle's work, can you give
us kind of a pointer?
Is the best place to go?
To your personal Instagram?
And then I want to ask youabout Down the Well, which is
(42:15):
just a really inspiring movementthat you're starting.
I think you're still prettyearly in that work as well, so
give our listeners where theyshould go to learn more about
you and the work that you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
That's really kind of you, I think.
If you just go, yeah, to myInstagram, which is El Rolly, I
also have a sub stack.
I write a little more there.
I think, like most moms, we'reall trying to spend less time on
social media, and so I don'tpost a ton anywhere, and so what
I do share, I try to make itreally meaningful because I
think, yeah, we could all dowell to spend less time online.
(42:48):
But Down the Well is a YouTubechannel and podcast that I
started just a few months ago.
It's been in the works sincelast fall, but we just launched
it a few months ago and it'sbeen really.
What it's about is supportingmothers through motherhood, but
finding transformation in theirmotherhood.
So often we look at motheringand parenting as really the
(43:12):
self-sacrificing thing that wedo in service to our kids, but
we miss the part that throughthat self-sacrifice and through
that service, we actually, justlike you know it's better to
receive, better to give than toreceive Like we have the
potential through that processto really know ourselves better,
(43:35):
to become higher I don't wantto say better selves, but just
like to reach our own potentialand I think the world is telling
us that, telling moms that tobecome that motherhood requires
you actually become smaller andyou give up your potential, and
that just like, absolutelybreaks my soul and I just you
(43:57):
see it in how few people want tohave kids now.
I mean, 47% of young people areopting out of being parents, and
it's even higher for women, andI think that that just
represents a huge gap innarrative and whether that's,
you know, making it so womendon't want to become moms or the
(44:17):
moms are missing the potentialof that transformation and by
leaning into it harder and Idon't mean being a martyr, but I
mean really recognizing theways that it can move you and
the ways that like being more.
It's not just about being morepresent, but it's about falling
(44:38):
down the well, this proverbialwell that Lisa Marciano's
Jungian analyst lays out thismother's hero's journey so
beautifully and that's a majorpart of it.
It mirrors Joseph Campbell'sjourney of going out.
She's like women.
The heroine's journey is goingdown and I don't think that we
have fully realized that asmothers.
(45:01):
And through this podcast andshow, I just really am hoping to
empower women to choosemotherhood, to double down in it
, to lean into that and to finda lot of joy in it through those
down the well hard moments,knowing that on the other side
of that you are going to comeout as the butterfly every time,
(45:23):
time, if you can approach it ina way that will aid in your
growth with humility,openheartedness and curiosity
and these good qualities thatare sure to bring more treasures
and more light and goodness inyour life.
So that's like it's a loftygoal, but I've had a lot of fun
just studying and digging intoit and sharing what I've learned
along, you know, along my ownjourney.
(45:45):
But that's, that's what I'mdoing.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
It's powerful and beautiful and you've you've, I
think, pitched it well because Ihave looked at some of it in
preparation for thisconversation.
But now I'm ready to go obsessover all of it and this idea of
kind of an alternate version ofthe hero's journey, which I'm
also obsessed with, and just tothink about what that can look
like.
And personally we'reexperiencing this too, where our
(46:08):
kids are growing up and it'slike who are we?
So much of who we are is tiedup in our relation to our
children.
Now it's like, are we emergingthe other side of this journey,
a different person like youwould?
Anyway, so so many questionsand I'm going to be reading and
I may be following up with youknow my own personal questions
for you, but I'll try to not bugyou too much.
(46:29):
Well, rolly, it's been apleasure.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to just chat with us.
Thank you for the work you'vedone and that you continue to do
, and just the goodness thatyou're bringing into the world.
I hope people are listening andjust hearing in you.
You know this courage to takethese actions, take these steps
and be there and, if you'rethinking about it, for kids in
your community, your own kids orother people's kids.
(46:51):
I hope you'll take a minute andgive this thought right and say
I could do this.
I could start a micro school, Icould contribute in my
community as well.
So with that, thank you so muchfor taking the time and I wish
you the very best in everythingyou're doing, going forward.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Thank you so much, kelly.
Thank you for having me.
The Kindled podcast is broughtto you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy to startand run an amazing micro school
based on all the ideas we talkabout here on the Kindled
podcast.
Don't forget to follow us onsocial media at Prenda Learn,
and if you'd like moreinformation about starting a
micro school, just go toPrendacom.
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