June 26, 2025 • 59 mins
The moment we truly heal isn't when everything becomes perfect—it's when we finally grant ourselves permission to be human. In this soul-stirring conversation with trauma specialist Tammy Valicenti, we journey beyond traditional healing modalities into the realm of genuine transformation.
Tammy introduces us to her unique "transformation solution" approach, a powerful blend of EMDR and Internal Family Systems therapy. While many practitioners offer one or the other, Tammy's experience revealed that combining these methodologies creates something far more potent than either alone. She guides us through how bilateral stimulation can bypass our overthinking minds, allowing our bodies to process what our conscious awareness might resist.
What began as a discussion about therapeutic techniques quickly evolves into profound reflections on divine timing, authentic connection, and the courage required to face our deepest patterns. We share surprisingly parallel journeys of shedding alcohol from our lives, discovering how this seemingly social habit was actually dulling our intuition and keeping our lives comfortably small. As Tammy beautifully expresses, "Without alcohol, I didn't know where the edge was"—capturing how sobriety expanded both our worlds in unexpected ways.
Perhaps the most moving segment explores how shame operates differently than guilt. While guilt says "I did something wrong," shame whispers "I am wrong at my core." Through Tammy's compassionate approach, we learn how to have conversations with these wounded parts of ourselves, liberating them from the past stories they've been carrying. This work isn't about perfection—it's about transformation through connection, curiosity, and the willingness to give ourselves space.
Whether you're navigating trauma, questioning your relationship with alcohol, or simply feeling called to live more authentically, this episode offers both practical wisdom and spiritual nourishment. As Tammy reminds us in her parting words: "There's nothing that is beyond transformable if you give it space."
Ready to explore your own divine alignment? Share your thoughts about this episode or connect with us about your healing journey.
Thank you for joining me today. Please know that this podcast and the information shared is not to replace or supplement any mental health or personal wellness modalities provided by practitioners. It’s simply me, sharing my personal experiences and I appreciate you respecting and honoring my story and my guests. If something touched your heart please feel free to like, share and subscribe. Have a beautiful day full of gratitude, compassion and unconditional love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up everyone, welcome to this episode of
Crystal Clear.
We have a special guest not alocal guest today, which I'm
really excited Tammy Valicenti.
So welcome, tammy, thank you,it's a joy to be here.
Yes, I'm excited to talk aboutdivine alignment and divine
timing.
She reached out to my KB atCrystal Clear email.
(00:21):
We had a conversation and she'slike well, where are you?
You know where I'm?
Like Sarasota.
She's like well, I'm going tobe in Tampa in a couple of weeks
and I'm like well, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So here we are, divine timing.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Divine timing, and so tell us a little bit about what
you do.
What is it that?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I hate to even ask what do you do?
It's like, what is your?
What brought you here today?
Well, I mean, ultimately it'smy calling and doing what I
absolutely love to do.
I specialize in what I calltransformation solution, which
is a psychotherapy thatspecializes in specifically
combining EMDR protocols withIFS or internal family systems
protocols with IFS or internalfamily systems protocols, and
it's more transformative andeffective than any one of those.
(01:10):
So when we combine them, theygo really deep, really fast, and
it's really a short-termprocess, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I love that and I'm familiar with what EMDR is and
internal family systems becauseI've done all kinds of deep
trauma healing for myself.
But if you could take a momentto kind of explain to the
audience what that is and kindof why it would be utilized in
life.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Sure.
So EMDR stands for eye movement, desensitization and
reprocessing, and it wasdeveloped by Dr Francine Shapiro
about 35 years ago and sherealized that when she moved her
eyes back and forth and thoughtabout something disturbing,
that became less disturbing.
So she got really curious aboutit and developed this EMDR
protocol, which is reallyeffective for trauma and other
(02:00):
things panic, anxiety, thingslike that.
It involves talking about whathappened to you Sometimes you
don't even have to, which isgreat and then adding bilateral
stimulation, meaning any backand forth stimulation on your
body could be eye movements,could be tapping back and forth,
and that's super effective,like I said before, for trauma.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, and when I did that, actually I had little
clickers yes, like I did the eye, but I also had like little
clickers, so I was going backand forth and talking and
clicking.
It was great.
My ADD really loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It can be really calming.
Yeah, For me.
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I was like made a game out of it.
And then I'm like, ok, I'msupposed to be focusing on,
focusing on the stuff.
But I found that it really didmake you feel kind of like, if
anything, it helped me turn offmy mind.
Yes, it helps you kind ofdisconnect from the voice in the
head Right and lets you releasewhat you needs to be released,
(02:58):
like you said, without all thekind of the shit coming all up,
right, right, and what's reallygreat about it, it's a real,
it's a real somatic momentmodality, like you said, it gets
.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It gets you out of your head and once you're down
in your body, now you can reallyprocess in a way that talk
therapy is not going to do,right.
But you also do that.
Yes, I also do that.
So we add in some IFS to thatand I found over the years that
in my practice at EMDR waseffective to a certain point.
And there were, there werethese things I kept bumping up
against in treatment in my ownand with my clients and so I
(03:29):
added some parts work in.
You know, back in the day itwas called kind of like inner
child work, um, and DickSchwartz made the parts work
really quite famous and more um,more spiritual and deeper than
than just simply parts work.
So I kind of weave some of thatin.
Okay, so when I hear somethinglike a part of me is feeling
(03:50):
we'll go right for that and thenwe'll interface and interact
with that part.
Where do you feel it in yourbody?
What do you notice?
What does it need to tell you?
What does it want to show you?
What does it need from you?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And need to let go.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right?
Yes, does it want to show youwhat does it need from you and
need to let go of right?
Yes, absolutely yeah, I lovethat.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, because I feel like I mean, I know I kind of
grew up in the you just workthrough it, you push it down,
you go.
You know whether it wasconditioned from my environment
or from myself with likeathletics and stuff.
It was like, oh, I'm feelingthis, I just gotta push through,
just got to push through, Ijust got to run through it,
shake it off, and then I got toa point of like stillness and I
(04:29):
was like, okay, it's all comingup, what's happening?
Just so happened to bepostpartum, so it was like
double layer, um, which is whenI dove super deep into healing
my own trauma and understandingmy patterns and and all of that.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe internal family systems,
like what, the IFS?
(04:50):
How does that really show up inpractice?
What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So it's really.
It's really the belief that weare all different parts, that we
don't just have this one kindof ego or one state, but that we
do have this, this self, thatwe're born with capital S self,
which is, whatever language youwant to use, divine, aligned
spirit, soul, god, and that thatpart of us is perfect,
(05:15):
connected and aligned.
Like I said before.
And everything else emotions,sensations in the body, any
patterns, those can be partsthat are working really hard for
us, to protect us, to help us,and oftentimes they are getting
in the way of us feeling easeand peace.
(05:37):
So, for example, if one part isworking really hard and it's
always doing something for us tofeel better maybe it's a, my
go-to is anger that part is alittle too loud.
So, like an orchestra, you wantto get that part to play nicely
with everything else, and theway to do that is to get in
touch with it, with the self,and get closer to it.
(05:59):
It's kind of counterintuitive.
You'd think that by gettingcloser to something that's
wreaking havoc on our lives orcreating barriers or something
else, that it would make itstronger or louder.
It's the opposite as we makecontact, then we can heal it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Right, I mean I kind of think of that.
As you know, you think of ascreaming child Like what do we
do?
We approach them withcompassion and care and
understanding and it settlestheir system, it settles their
mindset and it's like, oh, okay,well, I am safe, now I can let
(06:37):
whatever is upsetting me go, orI can, you know.
So that's what came up for mewhen you were saying that, like
just thinking that, because Imean healing is scary.
Let's just think of it.
Depending on what you've gonethrough, I've done a lot of
different trauma and resiliencytrainings and things like that,
and programming for ResilientRetreat, where we do survivor's
(06:59):
programs, so people that havesurvived trauma and abuse, but
we also have, like, helpingprofessions.
So it's very, you know,different dynamic.
You have to kind of know youraudience.
Sometimes we have rentals,people just like you and I, busy
business owners that want tocome in and have a woosah day
and do some programming.
But it's interesting because Ifeel like it always goes deep in
(07:22):
some way or another, and it's.
You know, it may not start outthat way.
You know, we're doing ajournaling program and maybe one
person speaks up and talksabout why they're there, Right,
but then by the end of the onehour most people have said
something.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Whether it's just like I'm grateful for being here
and I always like to tell themyou know, this is not for me,
this is for you.
If something's too deep, writeit down, take it with you,
circle back.
There are resources out there,but it's just giving ourselves
permission to face it, yes, butface it with courage and
(07:57):
compassion.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Absolutely, and what you're talking about is
connection, and once we canconnect with others, connect
with ourselves.
That's really where the healinghappens.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Exactly, and I know we talked about this kind of our
get to know each other call,but I loved it.
Your approach is kind ofsimilar to mine, like with the
empowerment coaching.
It's like you know we couldhave one session and I tell it
kind of tell you to giveyourself permission to do what
you need to do and that's it.
Or we may talk weekly for twoyears.
It just depends on the level ofaccountability, the level of
(08:31):
you know depth people.
You know where they want to go,what they want to do in their
life and what their goals are.
But I always looked at that,even with my background in
fitness is you know it's my jobas a coach or a you know
practitioner, or you know aresource for people to give them
(08:52):
the tools and the resourcesthey need to succeed.
Like I have four children, Idon't have room for all the
things all the time.
I have to A take care of myselffirst, because I realized that
is a necessity.
But really setting people upfor success and that doesn't
necessarily like some people,I've even been like, wow, I'm
(09:13):
really hearing you and Iunderstand where your heart is,
what your goals are and I thinkthis person is going to be a
great fit for you.
I don't even think I'm thecoach, you know, and owning that
like it's coming from a placewhere, wow, I know the perfect
fit for you, I feel like it'salmost a gift of like
connections.
I think that is one of myliterally one of my life
purposes.
I had a lunch with someone thisweek and it was like, wow, you
(09:35):
have to meet X, y and Z and evensame when I was talking to you.
I'm like, oh my gosh, so manythings, so many people I have to
connect you with.
But that, I think, is key, andyou express that as well.
So tell us a little bit aboutlike what it would look like.
What is it you do?
You do retreats and things aswell, and I do different
collaborations.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I do individual psychotherapy, I also do
intensives, which can be, youknow, two hours three hours or
three days, and I also offerretreats with my retreat partner
, Ilana Siegel, and we do aretreat called Women who Want
More and it is going in to riseup and it's going deep to expand
and pushing to the edges of ourfears.
(10:17):
And I really see in the work inthese retreats and in my
sessions that I am simply theguide.
I just am guiding you into yourbody.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You have everything you need inside of you and
through the process, withouttelling you that, through the
process, that realizationunfolds and it's really being
the conduit, just like a massagetherapist or I had someone a
craniosacral therapist it'sgiving that, holding the space,
yes, yes, holding them the space, giving them a safe place to be
(10:50):
like.
You can do this, right, right,because all you know there's, we
all have life that we've lived,there's always been, there's
been conditions, there's beenteachers or environmental
factors that have you maybe shutour voices down or not allowed
us to or given us the fullpermission to be our authentic
selves Absolutely.
(11:10):
And there is so much power inthat, not an egoic power, but
like a personal authentic powerand being like I have a voice
and it matters Absolutely.
And it doesn't matter what'shappened to me, everything's
happened to everyone.
Like everyone has their shit,like everyone has unprocessed
life, everyone has all thethings.
(11:31):
It's a matter.
It's like I actually did apodcast.
What are you going to do aboutit, right, right, it's like now
the ball is in your court.
What are you going to do aboutit, right?
You about it?
Right?
Deny it, ignore it Right, faceit, run for it, charge, you know
, take charge of it and just seewhere it leads.
And I feel like I'm in a placeright now where dove deep into
(11:52):
my own healing, really kind ofreevaluated life, got into a
different place, started thepodcast sharing it, which turned
into this beautiful empowermentbusiness and retreats and all
this other stuff.
And now I'm like my goal forthe past two years actually has
been I'm just going to see whereit goes, surrendering to the
flow, see what comes up, all ofthese beautiful connections and
(12:14):
all these things have beenhappening.
So it's like, okay, this isflowing in a really cool
direction.
That's amazing and I'm going tolet it flow as long as it's
supposed to, but then knowingwhen to pull back, you know
there's been things that come upthat it's like that doesn't
feel like it's an alignment.
I don't have the space for thatright now, right.
So I think that that'ssomething.
I don't know if you experiencedthis as well when you first got
(12:35):
into your practice and you'relike, oh, like it's a shiny new
thing, like this looks fun.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I want to go here, I want to do this, I want to do
this.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
And then you're like, oh okay, too much, overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Overwhelmed yes to all the things.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Doesn't feel like some don't feel in alignment.
It's exhausting me.
So how do you and I'm sure yourun into this with the ladies
that you work with in retreatsand whatnot how would you kind
of guide someone through that?
Because I think that's a reallyit's a big step when you're
starting something new, startinga business, starting a new
journey with a sober life orhealed you know, like healing
(13:13):
journey or new career, how toteach, navigate that balance
right.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I think it's talking to helping that person talk to
the part that's driving that busright, the person that's always
saying yes.
Maybe it's helping that persontalk to the part that's driving
that bus Right, the personthat's always saying yes.
Maybe it's a people pleaser,maybe it's the part that is
doing things all day, like Ithink you had mentioned earlier,
so that if I stop, what am Igoing to feel?
That feels overwhelming, right,right.
So, gently, getting reallycurious, as you said, with some
(13:43):
compassion, and what does thatpart need for me?
What is that part story?
And so slowing down andunderstanding that, I think, is
definitely part of that process,and then that allows that part
to step back a little bit andthe authentic self to show up
more about what do I want toreally say yes to?
Now that voice is a littlelouder, right.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I'm creating that open space Right.
That's one thing I've reallybeen really trying to set my
boundaries on for myself is,when something falls off, not
filling the space If I have acancellation if I have something
that shifts over the weekend,if I have like okay, well,
sometimes it's like, oh wow, nowI can fit this thing that I've
(14:24):
really been wanting to do inthere, but not filling it with
busy work.
I feel like there's adifference there.
Like something clears my day.
Ooh, I'm going to go take awalk because I know that that's
going to fill me up for the restof the day, instead of I'm
going to plug in six meetings intwo hours.
Just little tidbits.
I really emphasize tointentionality.
(14:51):
Yes, having that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Intentionality is a word a lot, so I've been
actually trying to cut back onusing it because I feel like I
use it in every podcast ever,but it's true.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
No, it's perfect because it wasn't me saying it,
but really being intentional andsetting you know at first.
I think it's great to be openbecause that's how you figure
out what direction it is youwant to take.
Right, I agree, but how did youget into all this?
Like that makes me curious.
Like how did this path startfor you?
What did it?
What did you know?
(15:20):
Your previous life or path looklike.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh, it was so circuitous, I have to say, but
in a way it wasn't because at avery young age middle school or
younger I was called to do this.
I wanted to be a childpsychologist initially and I
really think, looking back atthat young, at that young me, I
was looking to save myself.
Honestly, being raised in analcoholic family of origin and
(15:45):
being really lost, emotionallyneglected in so many ways I was
looking for an out, I waslooking for connection.
I didn't know it at the time.
Anyway, I did end up going toget my degree to be a therapist,
but the path that I took wasmore again, I kept getting
pulled more of a calling, not aprofession, not what I think I
should do, but really what madesense viscerally.
(16:08):
And so I was called to work withdomestic violence, rape and
sexual assault.
And then, in working withtrauma, I realized I can't do
that without understandingaddiction Right.
So I did some of that and allalong the way I'm doing, doing
my own work Right, and I betthat was so healing too,
incredible, yeah, incredible.
And for me EMDR was, was, waslimiting as well.
(16:31):
And so I was looking forsomething else and talk therapy
wasn't doing it.
I knew I had to kind of shiftthings on a visceral level.
So after my EMDR therapist fora while, maybe two found an IFS
therapist, learned that that wasabsolutely transformative for
me at that point.
So doing my own work along theway really informed how I work
(16:54):
with people.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I mean, and I think for most of us that have these
passions to help and do things,it's from our own life
experience.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Very similar Like.
I grew up around substance abuseof all different kinds, lost my
father at a very young age, sokind of lived through secondary
grief and just, you know, and asan empath and as a you know, a
feeler, a responder I don't knowif you've done life languages,
but I'm like a very highresponder influence, remover
(17:24):
personality.
So it was like, oh, I'm feelingeveryone's junk, what am I
going to do with it?
But it really it's interestingthat you say you knew from a
young age I was like I want togo to school for psychology and
I want to help gymnasts anddancers not go down the same
eating disorder path.
And then I started takingpsychology classes and I'm like
this is not for me right now.
(17:44):
And so I did exercise scienceinstead, which at the time now
looking back I realized was mycoping mechanism, like exercise
and moving my body.
That was how I coped, that washow I got through a life of you
know now knowing it was CPTSD.
I didn't know then because Ifelt great, because I was
(18:05):
balancing it with all the goodhormones from exercise and
moving my body.
And you know, and found a wayyeah, found a way to.
Um, brain scans with Dr andfound a way.
Yeah, found a way to brainscans with Dr Amen 2021.
And then get them, get themagain in 2023 after diving deep
into these different modalitiesand I don't have PTSD anymore
Incredible.
That was, like my whole purposefor this podcast is just
(18:26):
bringing people about that havehave all these different
resources and tools and lifeexperiences, and letting people
know they're not alone.
No, no, we've all gone throughsomething of the sort.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Resources and tools and life experiences and letting
people know they're not alone.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
No, no, We've all gone through something of the
sort.
Right, it's true.
It's true, Whether it's andthrough that, like you said,
going through understanding whataddiction was, understanding
the psychology behind thesedifferent types of life
situations we get into, thesedifferent types of life
(18:59):
situations we get into itallowed me to heal and forgive
and let go of so many, so muchshit.
That wasn't mine.
I was carrying, Like I wascarrying all the things
generational stuff from allsides and, you know, now
realizing that, but also made merealize I have to reevaluate my
own life and make a pivot formy own family.
So it was, you know, my husbandand I, prior to the world
(19:25):
shutting down and me beingpregnant in 2020 and having a
baby in the middle of thepandemic wow, I know we were.
I feel like our life was likeglamorized, Like I would travel
with them to New York and Vegasand Atlanta and all these you
know fun places where we wouldlike sip and chop.
And you know this life where wehad our older kids like half
the time, so we would travelwhen we didn't have them and
(19:46):
back and then, once our son wasborn and we had to, you know,
live full-time parenthood life.
Um, it wasn't glamorous anymore.
We tried to get back to the oldass.
At first it was a shit show.
I'm not going to lie.
Like it was.
(20:07):
I was postpartum.
I was trying to get my bodychemistry and physique back to
normal and you know, my husbandhad these different
opportunities and it was justI'm like we can't.
We can't do this.
Like we really hit like a rockbottom part in our life and
that's kind of what.
Like we did the brain scans andstuff.
It was the best thing we couldhave ever done for ourselves.
(20:27):
Because it was like A drinks aregone.
We can't do this anymore.
It's not worth it.
Yeah, I'm like, I'm not, it'snot fun and it's not glamorous.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And what was it doing to our nervous system?
So me seeing my brain scan him,seeing his Incredible
Understanding what it was doingto our bodies internally, yeah,
which I had never really been,you know, a drinker, partied
much but, like I said, was itwas glamorized, it was fun and
it's everywhere, it's everywhereand it's like why I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, I I stopped a year, over a year and a half
ago really on kind of on a whim.
I was kind of well, I was sickof how I was feeling.
Right, and to look at me, Ididn't think it was really
having an impact on my lifeanywhere.
But I, when I stopped my, mylife exploded in all the best
ways and it was profoundlyuncomfortable.
Alcohol has an ability to keepyou small and you know, I felt
(21:24):
like the walls kind of stay here.
You know where the edge is withalcohol.
Without alcohol, I didn't knowwhere the edge was.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I don't know what to do with that, right, Right, I
love that for you and I didn'tknow that about you.
So that's really cool I lovethat.
Yeah, yeah, and you know I wantto touch on that a bit since we
it just came up, so it's perfect.
You know, I and I don't know ifyou've realized this in your
journey with it as well Not onlyhas it kind of transformed
(21:51):
different social settings andwhatnot, but it makes you
realize like one of my husband'sbiggest things with it is like
my father-in-law has Alzheimer'sand you know, like I said, we
just had a new baby.
I was like, well, I have manyyears left and so I want to take
this seriously now because,knowing what we know about blood
(22:12):
flow and inflammation andeverything else, it's like, okay
, well, that's not going to,it's definitely not going to
slow the process down if I'mpredisposed to anything like
this.
So he made the decision.
I mean, he has like no drinksat all in three years, so super
proud of him, very incredible.
I've dabbled here and thereLike I went to, actually, new
York in March, had a couple ofdrinks with girlfriends one day
(22:33):
and a couple of drinks the nextday, literally just like two.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, what did you think?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I felt so brain dead and disgusting.
I go home.
I'm like I literally cannotthink, I cannot.
I feel so slow, I feel sluggish, my body feels inflamed and
it's almost like you know.
You have to add it back in torealize you don't want it
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly, you know, andit's like I'm one of those
(22:58):
people and I think, because ofjust my history with the rigid
boundaries and eating disorderand stuff like that, I try not
to ever set any hard limits andlike never, never myself.
Um, because I grew up very muchlike I'm never going to be like
them, I'm never going to andit's like okay that backfires,
it's not healthy either, becauseyou're focusing on the never
Right and then you kind of bringthat closer to you.
(23:20):
So I never, never.
So it was interesting becausemy husband kind of sat back and
he was like, and I noticed I wasa little reactive in the way
that I was handling life andgetting back into that and I'm
like this is I don't, I don'tunderstand how I did it before.
I mean, maybe because I sweatedout so much, because I was a
(23:40):
maniac and worked out like threetimes a day or something, but
my adrenals were shot, I bet.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean just for life in general.
But it's just thinking.
It's really hard in the system.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
It is.
It's hard in the system, butit's so socially acceptable.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It is Strangely, although it's interesting, there
are.
I don't know if you read in theNew York Times recently, or
maybe another newspaper, thatmany of the nightclubs in
Brooklyn are shutting down.
Oh, and a big part of that isbecause younger people aren't
drinking.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
You know I love this and I have tried all of those
fun like saints, like all thefun mocktails that are out there
.
Because I've noticed sociallylike, hey, I don't need to drink
to have a good time.
I'm bubbly and like talkativeand all the things.
Anyway, I know it's verydifferent for some people.
It helps them open up, it helpsthem relax and it's like, well,
(24:35):
I've gotten to a place in life.
No, I need to do something togo and relax and I don't think
it's in alignment.
Brilliant.
I love that.
Some things you have to do,like graduations and big parties
, but I've found that even atfirst, I remember taking the
approach of now, you know I'mnot drinking, are you pregnant?
No, I'm just actually notdrinking.
I just don't feel like it.
(24:55):
It makes people uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Sometimes it does, and then they start talking
about how what they're drinkingis or defending it in some way
and somehow like it like you'renot drinking says something
about their drinking.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yes, and it was like hey, you do you.
And I generally don't care LikeI don't care, I'm not judging
you, I'm just making a choicenot to do that, right.
Right, and it's been a reallyinteresting road, has it?
What have you learned?
You know I've learned that,having a very influential
(25:28):
personality, I think it's had atrickle effect on my entire
friend group.
I feel like they've seen like,wow, okay, like I don't really
need to drink for that either,and does it really serve me and
do I feel good afterwards?
And I feel like me and all myfriends are in this, like you
know, late thirties, earlyforties, perimenopausal phase of
(25:48):
life anyway.
So it's like we just need to dothe best we can to stay sane
and help our bodies and regulateanyway.
So it's like we just need to dothe best we can to stay sane
and help our bodies and regulateanyway.
So I think it's like a lot ofthings at once.
I don't think it's just that,but I do feel like it's really
given people permission to makedifferent decisions.
Yes, yes, you know it's notlike everyone has to stop cold
Turkey, but also not judgingthemselves either.
(26:10):
And this is my whole philosophyhey, if you're going to go have
a cocktail, go have a cocktail,absolutely.
But if you're going to go andyou're going to have a cocktail
and you're going to shameyourself and you're going to
guilt yourself, don't do thatRight.
It's not worth it.
It's like it could be the samefor chocolate cake.
It doesn't have to be alcohol,it could be any of our life
choices.
So, yeah, I think, honestly,the biggest thing I've learned
(26:30):
is clarity, though, like anunderstanding how much more calm
and settled and life isoverstimulating enough.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And my world, the world my world, all of it, you
know and it's really allowed.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
My husband and I I mean, let's see, he was our
oldest was 15.
The other 13 and 12.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Let's see, our oldest was 15, the other 13 and 12.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Those are really vulnerable, intense ages, but I
think for them to watch us makeextreme life shifts, that's
incredible In that time frameand for them to see like wow,
like Crystal and dad or mom andMatt, like they are so much more
chill and present, not evenjust like in conversation, but
just in life.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, it's a huge lesson for them.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
We're not going out and just to go out.
And you know, we enjoy beinghome more and, honestly, it's
not really fun when you have alittle one and before.
I think the reason it worked isbecause we would do it without
our kids.
I mean, not that we never haddrinks around our kids, but you
know we would.
It was almost like living adouble life, right, right, but
(27:41):
we don't have that anymore.
So it's like OK, what is thissingular life?
What does this look like for us?
Right, and it's, you know, it'sreally allowed us to go inward.
I wouldn't have been able to dothe deep healing work and facing
all the things if I would havekept alcohol and even caffeine.
I mean, there were two years Ididn't paint my nails, I didn't
(28:02):
have coffee, I didn't havealcohol.
I mean, I went through afterthe brain scan, I went through a
literal detox.
I went vegan for a while.
I took out all meat.
I remember I had to add it back.
I took out all hard, highintensity exercise and just
allowing my body to shed all the.
I essentially tried to rewireeverything and drop all the
(28:25):
previous conditioning.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And then you can re-add as you choose.
What?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
feels good what doesn't feel good.
I started learning about mycycle and how to balance eating
and exercise and like why didn'twe learn this in seventh grade
when we should have learned this, because I could have really
utilized this my whole lifeAbsolutely and like as a woman,
it's you know, see those memesthat pop up.
It's like, oh yeah, my periodcame today.
I'm not really like crazy thatwas it.
(28:51):
Right, I know, but understandinglike how to treat your body,
how to nurture yourself throughthese different phases.
So I mean I feel like I'velearned so much from it, but
particularly to releaseattachments and to stop
identifying.
So I realized I was soidentified with being a fitness
(29:13):
professional and being super fitand attached to the idea that I
needed to be this all the time,to whether it was for
worthiness or more of likeproving it to myself, I think,
because that was something thatgot me through life.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So you shed a lot of ego.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
A lot of ego, and I mean all the all the great books
eckhart tolle, I think is anewer than the power of now, and
michael singer, all thesurrender books, all the um.
My roommate, my mind, drshifali, who's amazing.
Have you read her book?
I have not, I've not.
So, yeah, really letting go ofego and getting back to my true,
(29:54):
authentic self.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Right, and knowing when the ego is coming in, right
, right, and it will keep comingin, and we just have to remind
ourselves generously andcourageously and compassionately
to return home to self.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Well, we're all living the human experience.
Exactly so there's there's alittle bit of that that's going
to trickle in here and thereLike.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I'm really proud of my kid.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's like wow, I'm really honored that I've gotten
to witness this beautiful soulthat I got to bring into the
earth.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
You know, it's like they're not mine.
I don't know, I was just theportal.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I like you know, it's like really, my husband and I
laugh all the time.
We like really pedal it backsometimes and laugh at each
other when we say things likethat.
But what is it, you know?
What has it taught you?
What is this all like?
Your sober journey and whatyou're doing in life?
What is, what is this allreally and where do you feel
like it's going for you?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's.
It's switched quite a bit inthe last couple of years.
Actually it's, I think.
First, dropping alcohol hasallowed me to get in touch with
myself and my more, more than mycapacity.
Just really, like I said to youbefore, I didn't know where.
I knew where the edges were andwithout it everything seems
boundless, which wasuncomfortable.
And now and now it's not.
(31:07):
I am saying yes to the thingsthat are in alignment and I'm
doing things I never would havedone before, and that's that's
where I feel most alive.
So alcohol has allowed me moreexpansion, more, more, more, but
not in a consumption kind ofway, just owning where I want to
be and how I want to be in anauthentic way.
(31:28):
And then, beyond that, there'sthis I've always been intuitive.
Intuitive.
I knew that from a very youngage and putting alcohol down
didn't right of way shift that.
But I'm now hearing thingsyou're going to say before you
say them.
Um, that, that part of me thatpulled me to be a therapist,
that pulls me to be here withyou.
(31:50):
You know the email I sent on awhim and then you called me.
I said I'm going to be herewith you.
You know the email I sent on awhim and then you called me and
said oh, I'm going to be here.
That just happens.
We needed to change a time forsomething.
It just happened.
Things just open up there's.
No, I'm learning not to pushpull also, and when I'm more
open and aligned with self, Ican hear everything, and that
(32:14):
sometimes is a little terrifying.
There's moments where I canmeditate and drop into self, get
to my third eye, where I feelpart of everything, and then
this feels like there's thisportal and do I keep going?
And if I keep going, will Istill exist?
I don't know what to do withthat.
So I in a way, kind of stoppedmyself, in the way I think I was
(32:38):
stopping myself with alcohol,unwittingly knowing.
So I'm playing with a lot ofthat spiritual stuff lately.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You definitely heard what was in my mind, because
that was exactly what I wasgoing to ask you.
How do you feel like yourspiritual connection?
has been since, because for meand my husband I can speak for
him I know he wouldn't mind Imean, for us it's been like,
download after download afterLike you just know, yes, you
know the path is clear, no doubt, and understanding, and
(33:10):
understanding.
And I think it really takessome deep unraveling and getting
through things to know thatthat inner knowing is different
than the voice in the head.
Yes, and knowing that I alwaysknow the voice in the head when
it's the voice in the head orthe roommate, as Michael Singer
would call it that it'ssomething fear-based?
(33:32):
Yes, like if something's comingup that has like fear or
hesitation, or.
But you just know, like the gutfeeling, the intuition, like
it's your inner knowing you canhear things and sometimes you
know it's hard to describebecause it's a feeling you have
when you know it's safe.
Yes, yeah, it's a feeling youhave.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Absolutely it's a screaming green have.
Absolutely it's a, it's a, it'sa, it's a screaming green light
without, without seeing it.
But the the you mentioned youmentioned the fear, the voice
inside.
For me it's, it can be, it canbe.
Fear, all the things, thestories I tell myself that hold
me back but could also be likesomething I want, like the push,
the push, the push.
(34:11):
And I keep learning that lesson.
How did I get here again?
But then that, and for methat's kind of egos in the way,
but I love that place I can getto where I feel I mean divinely
connected to everyone andeverything, and I can't.
It's fleeting, but I like tokeep coming back to it.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I love it and, like you mentioned, like today just
totally worked out and even ourapproach to today.
I'm like, okay, great, you'regoing to be in Tampa, I'll block
this amount of time.
We'll start with coffee, we'llsee where the day goes.
I'll book the studio, just incase we ended up flipping it.
And here we are and I think ifwe had filmed it Exactly and so,
(34:59):
and that's just that level ofauthenticity and inner knowing,
just trusting the processAbsolutely and just trusting
okay, it's, it's in alignment,it's supposed to be here.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yes, and I think that sometimes, where we can go awry
, that that that trusting theprocess involves vulnerability,
and that I mean for me, but thattrusting the process involves
vulnerability, and that I meanfor me, is profoundly difficult.
So then the fears or the tryingto control comes in and all of
that, and if I can take a breathand say, all right, this has
all happened anyway, I reallyhave no control, right, and just
(35:28):
allow, well then I can feel alot better and it all happens
exactly the way it needs to be,even the things I think, oh, you
know, get angry about or thiswent wrong.
It's all an opportunity, it'sall a gift.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Right.
There are always lessons andopportunities and up for growth
and evolution in any situationand I think it's a really great,
appropriate time to bring thisup.
You know, as a practitioner, assomeone who helps others, like
you still experience life, youstill have get angry, you still
(36:06):
have your moments of emotion,and it's interesting to me that
you know there's no, obviouslyno, places like it's not, like
healing is not a destination,like there's no, like I'm healed
Like my dog therapist or lifecoach, whatever you want to call
her, and I joke about this allthe time.
Every time I'm likeeverything's smooth sailing but
I'm opening, keeping space openfor pivoting keeping it open for
pivoting Because if I ever werelike you know what?
(36:28):
Oh everything, nothing couldtrigger me.
Now it's like, oh yeah, sister,but it's allowing yourself to
still be a part of the humanexperience, yes, and exposing
that vulnerability.
That that's life, right, andthat's the whole.
I think the beauty of talkingabout this and even having a
podcast, it's letting peopleknow like it's OK.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
It's going to happen if you've got to give yourself
grace.
Yes, the other day, looking formy daughter's passport, she
can't find it anywhere I wasenraged for about an hour,
Enraged.
She asked me a question.
I answered it, but I was supersnarky.
I was like I'm not being honesthere, I'm just being nasty.
So you know the leading withlove kind of I went off track
(37:11):
for a moment.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Bring myself back but I'm sure you held yourself
accountable.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
You owned your shit and you guys worked through it.
I owned the shit and that'sjust it.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know, in life, in relationships, and that I feel
like has been the biggest partof the journey.
Like to get back to earlier,like what have I learned through
?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
all of this is accountability.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, like that is the key.
Yes, until I started holdingmyself accountable for the way I
felt, for the way I wasreacting to life, the way I was
responding to life, the way Iwas behaving, the way I was
perceiving all the things.
Yeah, and stop projecting itand making it someone else's
(37:54):
stuff.
Right, that's.
That was the game changer 100%.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I always say to people you know you can't change
anyone else, but there's asecret.
I damn sure tried.
Well, you can.
You can by leaving them alone,right, by changing you.
Yes, you change that system,the family, the relationship.
The guy at the takeout, youknow, is having a bad day, by
(38:22):
changing you and approaching ina different way changes
everything around you andchanges others.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, and I don't think I would have been able to
do that if I would have stayedon the, you know, social
drinking path.
I think that was something thatreally just helped me.
Let go of it, Because I thinkfor me it was one of those
things that, you know, stuffcomes up, Like you know, if we
want to get to the science of itall if you consume any sort of
(38:47):
like substance in your body,it's going to dull your level of
consciousness, your, yourintuition, your, and then, like
old stuff, might surface and butI really feel like allowing
myself that space and time to beclear mm-hmm.
And gave me the differentperspective and the and I let go
(39:09):
of anything I could do better,because I knew I was doing my
best.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I let go of anything I could do better.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Anything I could do better, like the thought of I
could do this better.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Because I knew I was doing my best.
Yes, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, Don't let perfection or the pursuit of it
get in the way of.
Good enough, and I was a seekerof perfection all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
And for what?
Because no one's perfect.
No, but it was like, if I cancontrol this, if I can control
the way I look, if I can controlhow much I do is or how cool
the gift is we give someone youknow it's going to be no like,
because, guess what like no oneelse really cares no.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
And what if it was all okay just as it was?
Speaker 1 (39:55):
yeah, and I think one of the four agreements book.
Have you read that book?
I have not.
Oh, it's so great.
He talks, um, he talks about Iforget the name of the guy, I
guy to send it to you but doingyour best and knowing that your
best is different on a dailybasis.
So I knew, like if I showed upmy best self, if I nurtured my
(40:30):
body in the right way whetherthat was rest or eating carbs
before workout or after workout,or if it was sitting down and
really being attentive, helpingmy kid with homework and, you
know, just filling my cup inways that I knew I was doing my
best, not half assing, not, youknow, being halfway in a
conversation and looking at myphone and trying to answer
questions, or, you know,checking emails at stoplights
and like being intentional.
Getting back to beingintentional, that's when I think
it really also started tochange, because it gives you
that different level ofownership yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I mean, I was thinking well, what if my best
is like too hard to get to inone day or that feels like too
much?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
but it varies depending on my capacity,
depending if I slept enough or Iexercised or I nourished or if
you're traveling or if you'reoverstimulated, you have a big
event and, like in my a fewdifferent aspects of life, I
feel like part of my life iscommunity events.
So a big community eventspeaking in front of hundreds of
people and, um, you know, Iknow that after those big event
(41:22):
days I need to have my calendaras clear as possible.
I need to ask for help pickingup the kids after school.
I know that my best self needsto rest because I need to
energetically cleanse the, andyou know, and is it always
possible?
No, you know, sometimes I haveto go through car line and do
all the things and and don'tcan't utilize all of my
(41:44):
resources.
So it's a matter of okay.
So what are the next steps?
Pivoting, like I know, a longshower is going to help if I
can't do the other things, andjust finding really what works
for you in those everyday kindof micro healing moments.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Taking care of yourself like you would someone
you love.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Exactly.
So what does that look like foryou?
What are your kind of dailyroutines and rituals and micro
healing things Like?
Is it getting outside?
And for me I love to getoutside and put my feet in the
grass or move my body in somesort of way.
I don't schedule it as crazy asI used to, but, you know, just
really adapting to and listeningto what I need that day, mm hmm
(42:23):
, I like to get enough sleep.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I am kind of a little crazy around sleep.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I love that so.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I think that's where it starts A lot of the
foundation.
But I certainly I love to beout in the water, out in nature,
walking a dirt road, hiking.
I want to move my body on theregular.
So usually the morning we'llstart, we'll start with that and
water, water, water, whetherright on the boat, at the beach
(42:51):
in the shower in the bathtublike any type of water.
Yeah, and doing what I do, it'snot, it's not work, it's.
You know people ask me all thetime how do you listen to those
stories, how do you listen topeople all day?
It's not listening to thosestories, it's it's.
I may hear some horrific things.
That's not what I take with me,because we're transforming
(43:13):
something and everything changesenergetically.
What really I leave my workwith is energized most of the
time.
You know there are thosemoments where there are stories
that might stay stuck a littlebit of the time.
You know there are thosemoments where there are stories
that might stay stuck a littlebit, um, but so my, my, my, my
work, my, my passion, my, myfirst love, trauma and addiction
(43:34):
, the work that I do in theworld.
That feeds me.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Um, yeah, and that's so important and, again, that
shows that you were on the paththat is appropriate for you in
this moment.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yes.
Yes that is appropriate for youin this moment, yes, lifetime
yes, and, like you've said, alsoknowing when it's too much, in
the days where I can pull backor do less um, and that's really
important too and how do youreally get to the point where
you're feeling or you're knowingit's too much.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
What does that kind of look like, feel like, for?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
you, um, when I notice that I don't want to do
the work that day, right, andthen I know, oh, maybe next week
or tomorrow I need to makeextra space where I'm not
serving others.
So it's a very clear, becauseit doesn't happen very often,
but it comes out and clear.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
And then how do you find that you cleanse yourself,
shift the energy, come back toyou after a long work day or
taking on and actually hadanother friend, lisa Klein, who
is a therapist and we talkedabout this as well, and just the
importance of kind of honoringyou and like you said, you can't
(44:45):
always like clear your day,because people are depending on
you that day.
You know, you don't you don'tyou want to follow through?
Because again, that's showingup as your best self and
following through with your word.
But how do you kind of, if it'sa day that's too much, and how
do you?
How do you cleanse through A?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
lot of times, most of the time it's in my office is
generally at home these days.
A lot of times, most of thetime it's in my office is
generally at home these days.
Last session ends and I taketime for myself.
I know, you know, a familymember needs something, a
daughter needs something else.
Phone calls need to beresponded to, texts needed to be
dealt with.
I'll leave it all alone andI'll take a few minutes, and
(45:29):
that is a really good transitionmoment for me between what I
was doing for others,acknowledging myself, taking a
breath, and then I can go backout.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, I love that and I really want to emphasize the
importance of giving yourselfthat space to transition.
It is really important, whetherthat be stepping outside and
getting a breath of fresh airand just standing in the
sunlight for a minute, like Idid a podcast.
You would love my friend JenSmith, by the way, she's one of
(45:57):
the we did a podcast and whatare you going to do about it?
Like it's just verystraightforward, you love her,
you just need to come down andspend more time.
Yes, yes, we have to play this,but I was doing two podcasts
back to back, which I hardlyever do.
But I was like, oh, I'm alreadydoing one, let's do one, Cause
she and I really wanted to get asecond one in, and she walked
in and she's like all right, youneed to go outside and get your
sunshine for a second and thenwe'll come back in.
(46:19):
I was like you know me too well,um, and and that's just it,
like knowing that, even if it'sa quiet car ride or or the tunes
cranked up and singing at thetop of your lungs with the
windows down and the hairblowing and whatever that means
for you or you know, liketapping my chest and just
(46:41):
getting some physical movementout If I'm sitting in front of
my computer all day, taking abrain break, taking a movement
break, but giving myselfpermission to not have that
instant response because we'revery driven like that these days
it's like everything has to belike immediate, it's like, but
it really doesn't.
If someone emails you at 9am,you don't have to get back to
(47:04):
them at 9.06.
You can get back to them at2.30.
You can get back to them thenext day.
I was going to say that.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Is that radical?
Speaker 1 (47:10):
No, like you don't have to, because guess what it
teaches?
It gives them the opportunityto A find some space and time
for themselves, and compassionand understanding, and give them
permission to do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Right, and what I love about that, too, is you're
teaching others how to react orto be with you, which is right.
I'm not going to be at yourbeck and call every you know.
As soon as the text comes,comes through, right, I'm going
to be known as the person whoresponds in two hours or
tomorrow, and nothing's wrong.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
And I think now my people are probably like she's
probably outside with her feetin the grass or hanging in a
tree somewhere.
That's okay, and I probably am,and that's okay too.
That's so great.
But it's really and I do wantto touch on that a bit and I'm
sure you've experienced it andyour practice and people you
work with Like, how do you coachpeople through navigating
(48:06):
boundaries and setting thesehealthy boundaries for their own
mental health and healing andprocessing?
I mean, you know, just thinkingabout my high schoolers, you
know they're walking around,they have their AirPods in,
they're on Snapchat, they'retrying to listen to their
teachers.
They have four minutes to getto the next class.
It's like do you really learnanything like that?
Speaker 2 (48:27):
No, no way.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
We're just memorizing , we're taking tests, and it's
like, well, what's it all forthat?
We're going to spend how muchmoney sending them to college to
do the same thing?
And it's like, but like it's sooverstimulating, right now more
so than ever, and we're notbuilt for this?
Speaker 2 (48:50):
No, not at all.
Like we're not built for this,no, nope.
So how do you coach people onthat?
I mean, I think what I found ismaybe what you found, which is,
if I tell people that doesn'treally bring about any change, I
can, I might be able to see itvery clearly, you know, with an
ex abusive husband or with ademanding, you know boss or
something, um, or a friend whois just boundaryless Right, but
(49:11):
ultimately I don't feel likethey're going to listen to the
advice or what I think theboundaries would be.
It really begins with self,right, coming back to what feels
good to you, what are yourrhythms, and once you can listen
to that and get in touch withthat, then the boundaries with
others become clear.
Same thing, you know, withself-love.
(49:31):
I can't tell someone how tolove someone else.
It really starts with self.
But I can guide them into selfand find that for themselves,
and then that radiates outward.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I love that.
Thanks, yeah, I really lovethat because it's really I mean,
just think of like parenting,for example.
I lost all respect for adultsaround me when I was adolescence
age because I'm like who areyou to tell me how to live when
you're treating your body andyour mind and you're not
(50:05):
connected to yourself?
I get like who the hell are youto tell me how to live and act
and what to do?
And so I just again started therigid boundary.
But I knew, and I think it waspart of that intuitive push,
that everything had to changeall at once for me and my
husband during this phase ofsitting in our shit.
(50:25):
But he knew too, during thisphase of sitting in our shit.
But he knew too, he knew hewanted to change and needed to
make some shifts.
And I know I wanted to, andtogether we knew we needed to,
you know, create a healthieratmosphere.
And just so happened to be whenmy children were the age I was
when I started to lose therespect, and that you know.
(50:47):
It's interesting and I'm sureyou've seen this pattern.
A lot is like we internally getthese and I have like chili
bombs, right now all over and myeyes are watering.
But we internally get calledwhen we hit those life shift
ages and patterns.
Absolutely Like we internally,you call it like spirit
alignment.
(51:08):
You know guides telling you howto go.
You're guided, you're protected, you can do this shift and it's
a matter of taking thestillness, the time to set back
and trusting the process of thatRight, because it's real.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
It is, it is, and if you don't follow it, you will
feel the anxiety come up, therage, the discomfort, the
disease, the regret, the shame,the guilt all the things so true
.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
All the things that and that's actually something I
want to touch on.
Yeah, shame, okay, bring it on,let's talk about it.
And how.
You know, what I've realized islike I was holding so much
shame for people that it wasn'tmy stuff to carry.
So I held shame of, like howyou know, my mom portrayed
(51:55):
herself when I was younger, ormy family when I was younger,
and it's like they loved meunconditionally.
They did the best they couldwith the tools that they had at
the time.
Now I know that, but I remembergrowing.
I actually went home and I wasreading this thing I wrote in
like fourth grade and I'mreading it and I'm like this
(52:16):
isn't all true.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
So I would put tidbits of real life and then
tidbits of what I wanted life tolook like, and it was like oh,
bless her heart Like she was shehad so much shame, like she
didn't want to tell her lifestory, right?
You know she didn't want to talkabout how her dad died and her
(52:40):
mom came in and out and you knowshe was raised by her
grandparents and so it wasinteresting that I gave a little
bit, but then I portrayed it tobe what I thought.
I think people wanted to hear,right, and what I thought, and
people don't care.
It was me holding the shamearound that.
So that was something thatreally took me back to.
(53:00):
It was one of those almostunexpected things.
I was like, wow, I don'tremember writing this, but I'm
like, oh, bless her heart, yeah.
Now you can heal her oh yeah,absolutely Like I wrote her a
letter.
I've written myself at alldifferent ages letters.
Usually I feel like for me it'shappened in sevens.
Big life events at seven at 14,at 21, at 28.
You know yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Isn't that?
Doesn't it take seven years forour body to completely?
Speaker 1 (53:24):
regenerate, yeah.
So it's like I've literallybeen a different person.
But, interestingly enough, I'vemade huge life shifts.
Like at seven, I made thedecision to live with my
grandparents full time.
I didn't want to live with mymom at all.
At 14, I completely cut my momout of my life until I was 21.
I revisited and circled backand then I was like, okay, this
still isn't going to work in thehealthy dynamic that it's
(53:46):
supposed to work in 28, got adivorce from my first husband,
35, had my son started thiswhole deep journey.
So it's like I have literallymade huge shifts.
So I'm like, oh God, what does42 look like?
Like I got two years, hopefully, good stuff, right, all good
stuff, I'm excited.
So Shay, good stuff, All goodstuff, I'm excited.
(54:08):
So she, yeah, getting.
Like how would you give me yourperspective on it?
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Well, I was thinking about the difference between
shame and guilt, and I kind ofwanted all of us to be on the
same page.
You know, guilt is I didsomething wrong, right.
Shame is I am wrong.
Yeah, right, I'm not worthy,I'm not good enough, I'm not
lovable at those deep I wouldsay irrational negative beliefs
(54:33):
that we we take on in childhoodas a way to survive, because to
believe that mom can't take careof me is to really think I mean
that's too terrifying, becauseif mom can't take care of me,
therefore I mean that's can Ilive, I'm going to die, right.
So you take that on yourself.
I'm not lovable, I'm not goodenough for her to show up for me
, or whatever that story is, ofcourse.
(54:55):
Then you see it, we bring thatinto adulthood, we hold on to it
and you can see that wreakhavoc on our lives all over the
place and trickle into all ofour relationships and the people
or partners that we choose andthe friends that we choose the
environments we get ourselvesinto Right.
So I mean, like with everythingelse, I think you've heard me
say you know I would say so,what?
(55:16):
So what does shame have toshare with you?
What does she want you to know?
How old is shame?
What does she look like?
Where do you feel her in yourbody?
And then, ultimately, onceyou've really connected with her
and you've empathized with herand you sat with her for a while
, then what do you need from me?
Where do you want to be in thisworld?
Do you want to stay in theshame, back in the house you
(55:38):
grew up in?
I can't tell you how many partsof myself I pulled out of that
house on three Upland Road inNeedham.
Tons of them, and imaginethere's still more coming.
But each time I pull one out ofthat house and give her
liberation and freedom, I becomefreer.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
It's going to make me cry Same.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
You know in writing You've been there.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Oh, I've been there I've done all the things and you
know writing.
I've found that writing areletters.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Whether it's a hey.
This is why your life actuallyis going to turn out to be Right
and you're going to utilize allof the things that you're
holding right now to help somany people.
Yes, yes, and that, for me, isthe internal driving system, and
I think if there's anythingthat I really want people to
(56:33):
hear from this today is you canmake all of the ugly anything
that's ever you've experiencedin your life you can pay it
forward and you can help so manypeople.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Absolutely no doubt.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
It takes the courage to face it.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Yes, and feel it, and feel it, and feel it.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
So if there is anything that you really want to
emphasize or you want people tohear you on, what would that be
today?
Speaker 2 (57:02):
Oh, so many things.
But if there's one thing Icould say, um, slow down, be
curious.
And um, there's.
There's nothing that is beyondtransformable If you give it
space.
If you give it space,everything is transformable If
(57:23):
you give it space.
That is so true throughconnection to self and others.
Thank you, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Absolutely.
Thank you for this lovelyconnection.
Oh, you're welcome and honestly, that actually brought it up
for me and I feel like I could.
I should say this to wrap itall up but I think my mom is a
perfect example of that.
You know she had to go toprison to find her space but she
came out of that and she's paidit forward.
(57:49):
Wow, she has transition houseswhere she has curriculum to help
women who have been throughprostitution and trafficking and
prison and she goes and speaksto people on death row and gives
them kind of a little bit oflife and forgiveness for
themselves, regardless of whatthe outcome is.
So incredible and forgivenessfor themselves, regardless of
(58:10):
what the outcome is.
So you know it's healed myrelationship with her, forgiving
her the space to be herself anddo her thing, knowing walking
through forgiveness, knowingthat whatever she did when I was
a kid had nothing to do with meand knowing that it was up to
me, with how I responded to allof that.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (58:29):
So I think that you probably had a similar
experience with your ownupbringing and things and just
knowing, like you know what youhad to own your part.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
Absolutely yeah, yeah , and do it with grace.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yes, oh my gosh, I feel like we could talk for like
four hours.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
I would love to.
I know we're going to do thisagain.
Okay, we're going to have apart two, and I feel like we
could talk for like four hours.
I would love to.
I know we're going to do thisagain.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Okay, we're going to have a part two, and I feel like
we need to clap on somethingfun.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Yes, please Go deeper .
Speaker 1 (58:52):
Let's go deeper, go deeper, we're going to go deep
and yes, I feel like there isall kinds of fun stuff coming
for us.
So thank you, Tammy, forjoining me today and for
What's up everyone, welcome to this episode of
Crystal Clear.
We have a special guest not alocal guest today, which I'm
really excited Tammy Valicenti.
So welcome, tammy, thank you,it's a joy to be here.
Yes, I'm excited to talk aboutdivine alignment and divine
timing.
She reached out to my KB atCrystal Clear email.
(00:21):
We had a conversation and she'slike well, where are you?
You know where I'm?
Like Sarasota.
She's like well, I'm going tobe in Tampa in a couple of weeks
and I'm like well, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So here we are, divine timing.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Divine timing, and so tell us a little bit about what
you do.
What is it that?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I hate to even ask what do you do?
It's like, what is your?
What brought you here today?
Well, I mean, ultimately it'smy calling and doing what I
absolutely love to do.
I specialize in what I calltransformation solution, which
is a psychotherapy thatspecializes in specifically
combining EMDR protocols withIFS or internal family systems
protocols with IFS or internalfamily systems protocols, and
it's more transformative andeffective than any one of those.
(01:10):
So when we combine them, theygo really deep, really fast, and
it's really a short-termprocess, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I love that and I'm familiar with what EMDR is and
internal family systems becauseI've done all kinds of deep
trauma healing for myself.
But if you could take a momentto kind of explain to the
audience what that is and kindof why it would be utilized in
life.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Sure.
So EMDR stands for eye movement, desensitization and
reprocessing, and it wasdeveloped by Dr Francine Shapiro
about 35 years ago and sherealized that when she moved her
eyes back and forth and thoughtabout something disturbing,
that became less disturbing.
So she got really curious aboutit and developed this EMDR
protocol, which is reallyeffective for trauma and other
(02:00):
things panic, anxiety, thingslike that.
It involves talking about whathappened to you Sometimes you
don't even have to, which isgreat and then adding bilateral
stimulation, meaning any backand forth stimulation on your
body could be eye movements,could be tapping back and forth,
and that's super effective,like I said before, for trauma.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, and when I did that, actually I had little
clickers yes, like I did the eye, but I also had like little
clickers, so I was going backand forth and talking and
clicking.
It was great.
My ADD really loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It can be really calming.
Yeah, For me.
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I was like made a game out of it.
And then I'm like, ok, I'msupposed to be focusing on,
focusing on the stuff.
But I found that it really didmake you feel kind of like, if
anything, it helped me turn offmy mind.
Yes, it helps you kind ofdisconnect from the voice in the
head Right and lets you releasewhat you needs to be released,
(02:58):
like you said, without all thekind of the shit coming all up,
right, right, and what's reallygreat about it, it's a real,
it's a real somatic momentmodality, like you said, it gets
.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It gets you out of your head and once you're down
in your body, now you can reallyprocess in a way that talk
therapy is not going to do,right.
But you also do that.
Yes, I also do that.
So we add in some IFS to thatand I found over the years that
in my practice at EMDR waseffective to a certain point.
And there were, there werethese things I kept bumping up
against in treatment in my ownand with my clients and so I
(03:29):
added some parts work in.
You know, back in the day itwas called kind of like inner
child work, um, and DickSchwartz made the parts work
really quite famous and more um,more spiritual and deeper than
than just simply parts work.
So I kind of weave some of thatin.
Okay, so when I hear somethinglike a part of me is feeling
(03:50):
we'll go right for that and thenwe'll interface and interact
with that part.
Where do you feel it in yourbody?
What do you notice?
What does it need to tell you?
What does it want to show you?
What does it need from you?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And need to let go.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right?
Yes, does it want to show youwhat does it need from you and
need to let go of right?
Yes, absolutely yeah, I lovethat.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, because I feel like I mean, I know I kind of
grew up in the you just workthrough it, you push it down,
you go.
You know whether it wasconditioned from my environment
or from myself with likeathletics and stuff.
It was like, oh, I'm feelingthis, I just gotta push through,
just got to push through, Ijust got to run through it,
shake it off, and then I got toa point of like stillness and I
(04:29):
was like, okay, it's all comingup, what's happening?
Just so happened to bepostpartum, so it was like
double layer, um, which is whenI dove super deep into healing
my own trauma and understandingmy patterns and and all of that.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe internal family systems,
like what, the IFS?
(04:50):
How does that really show up inpractice?
What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So it's really.
It's really the belief that weare all different parts, that we
don't just have this one kindof ego or one state, but that we
do have this, this self, thatwe're born with capital S self,
which is, whatever language youwant to use, divine, aligned
spirit, soul, god, and that thatpart of us is perfect,
(05:15):
connected and aligned.
Like I said before.
And everything else emotions,sensations in the body, any
patterns, those can be partsthat are working really hard for
us, to protect us, to help us,and oftentimes they are getting
in the way of us feeling easeand peace.
(05:37):
So, for example, if one part isworking really hard and it's
always doing something for us tofeel better maybe it's a, my
go-to is anger that part is alittle too loud.
So, like an orchestra, you wantto get that part to play nicely
with everything else, and theway to do that is to get in
touch with it, with the self,and get closer to it.
(05:59):
It's kind of counterintuitive.
You'd think that by gettingcloser to something that's
wreaking havoc on our lives orcreating barriers or something
else, that it would make itstronger or louder.
It's the opposite as we makecontact, then we can heal it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Right, I mean I kind of think of that.
As you know, you think of ascreaming child Like what do we
do?
We approach them withcompassion and care and
understanding and it settlestheir system, it settles their
mindset and it's like, oh, okay,well, I am safe, now I can let
(06:37):
whatever is upsetting me go, orI can, you know.
So that's what came up for mewhen you were saying that, like
just thinking that, because Imean healing is scary.
Let's just think of it.
Depending on what you've gonethrough, I've done a lot of
different trauma and resiliencytrainings and things like that,
and programming for ResilientRetreat, where we do survivor's
(06:59):
programs, so people that havesurvived trauma and abuse, but
we also have, like, helpingprofessions.
So it's very, you know,different dynamic.
You have to kind of know youraudience.
Sometimes we have rentals,people just like you and I, busy
business owners that want tocome in and have a woosah day
and do some programming.
But it's interesting because Ifeel like it always goes deep in
(07:22):
some way or another, and it's.
You know, it may not start outthat way.
You know, we're doing ajournaling program and maybe one
person speaks up and talksabout why they're there, Right,
but then by the end of the onehour most people have said
something.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Whether it's just like I'm grateful for being here
and I always like to tell themyou know, this is not for me,
this is for you.
If something's too deep, writeit down, take it with you,
circle back.
There are resources out there,but it's just giving ourselves
permission to face it, yes, butface it with courage and
(07:57):
compassion.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Absolutely, and what you're talking about is
connection, and once we canconnect with others, connect
with ourselves.
That's really where the healinghappens.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Exactly, and I know we talked about this kind of our
get to know each other call,but I loved it.
Your approach is kind ofsimilar to mine, like with the
empowerment coaching.
It's like you know we couldhave one session and I tell it
kind of tell you to giveyourself permission to do what
you need to do and that's it.
Or we may talk weekly for twoyears.
It just depends on the level ofaccountability, the level of
(08:31):
you know depth people.
You know where they want to go,what they want to do in their
life and what their goals are.
But I always looked at that,even with my background in
fitness is you know it's my jobas a coach or a you know
practitioner, or you know aresource for people to give them
(08:52):
the tools and the resourcesthey need to succeed.
Like I have four children, Idon't have room for all the
things all the time.
I have to A take care of myselffirst, because I realized that
is a necessity.
But really setting people upfor success and that doesn't
necessarily like some people,I've even been like, wow, I'm
(09:13):
really hearing you and Iunderstand where your heart is,
what your goals are and I thinkthis person is going to be a
great fit for you.
I don't even think I'm thecoach, you know, and owning that
like it's coming from a placewhere, wow, I know the perfect
fit for you, I feel like it'salmost a gift of like
connections.
I think that is one of myliterally one of my life
purposes.
I had a lunch with someone thisweek and it was like, wow, you
(09:35):
have to meet X, y and Z and evensame when I was talking to you.
I'm like, oh my gosh, so manythings, so many people I have to
connect you with.
But that, I think, is key, andyou express that as well.
So tell us a little bit aboutlike what it would look like.
What is it you do?
You do retreats and things aswell, and I do different
collaborations.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I do individual psychotherapy, I also do
intensives, which can be, youknow, two hours three hours or
three days, and I also offerretreats with my retreat partner
, Ilana Siegel, and we do aretreat called Women who Want
More and it is going in to riseup and it's going deep to expand
and pushing to the edges of ourfears.
(10:17):
And I really see in the work inthese retreats and in my
sessions that I am simply theguide.
I just am guiding you into yourbody.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You have everything you need inside of you and
through the process, withouttelling you that, through the
process, that realizationunfolds and it's really being
the conduit, just like a massagetherapist or I had someone a
craniosacral therapist it'sgiving that, holding the space,
yes, yes, holding them the space, giving them a safe place to be
(10:50):
like.
You can do this, right, right,because all you know there's, we
all have life that we've lived,there's always been, there's
been conditions, there's beenteachers or environmental
factors that have you maybe shutour voices down or not allowed
us to or given us the fullpermission to be our authentic
selves Absolutely.
(11:10):
And there is so much power inthat, not an egoic power, but
like a personal authentic powerand being like I have a voice
and it matters Absolutely.
And it doesn't matter what'shappened to me, everything's
happened to everyone.
Like everyone has their shit,like everyone has unprocessed
life, everyone has all thethings.
(11:31):
It's a matter.
It's like I actually did apodcast.
What are you going to do aboutit, right, right, it's like now
the ball is in your court.
What are you going to do aboutit, right?
You about it?
Right?
Deny it, ignore it Right, faceit, run for it, charge, you know
, take charge of it and just seewhere it leads.
And I feel like I'm in a placeright now where dove deep into
(11:52):
my own healing, really kind ofreevaluated life, got into a
different place, started thepodcast sharing it, which turned
into this beautiful empowermentbusiness and retreats and all
this other stuff.
And now I'm like my goal forthe past two years actually has
been I'm just going to see whereit goes, surrendering to the
flow, see what comes up, all ofthese beautiful connections and
(12:14):
all these things have beenhappening.
So it's like, okay, this isflowing in a really cool
direction.
That's amazing and I'm going tolet it flow as long as it's
supposed to, but then knowingwhen to pull back, you know
there's been things that come upthat it's like that doesn't
feel like it's an alignment.
I don't have the space for thatright now, right.
So I think that that'ssomething.
I don't know if you experiencedthis as well when you first got
(12:35):
into your practice and you'relike, oh, like it's a shiny new
thing, like this looks fun.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I want to go here, I want to do this, I want to do
this.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
And then you're like, oh okay, too much, overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Overwhelmed yes to all the things.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Doesn't feel like some don't feel in alignment.
It's exhausting me.
So how do you and I'm sure yourun into this with the ladies
that you work with in retreatsand whatnot how would you kind
of guide someone through that?
Because I think that's a reallyit's a big step when you're
starting something new, startinga business, starting a new
journey with a sober life orhealed you know, like healing
(13:13):
journey or new career, how toteach, navigate that balance
right.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I think it's talking to helping that person talk to
the part that's driving that busright, the person that's always
saying yes.
Maybe it's helping that persontalk to the part that's driving
that bus Right, the personthat's always saying yes.
Maybe it's a people pleaser,maybe it's the part that is
doing things all day, like Ithink you had mentioned earlier,
so that if I stop, what am Igoing to feel?
That feels overwhelming, right,right.
So, gently, getting reallycurious, as you said, with some
(13:43):
compassion, and what does thatpart need for me?
What is that part story?
And so slowing down andunderstanding that, I think, is
definitely part of that process,and then that allows that part
to step back a little bit andthe authentic self to show up
more about what do I want toreally say yes to?
Now that voice is a littlelouder, right.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I'm creating that open space Right.
That's one thing I've reallybeen really trying to set my
boundaries on for myself is,when something falls off, not
filling the space If I have acancellation if I have something
that shifts over the weekend,if I have like okay, well,
sometimes it's like, oh wow, nowI can fit this thing that I've
(14:24):
really been wanting to do inthere, but not filling it with
busy work.
I feel like there's adifference there.
Like something clears my day.
Ooh, I'm going to go take awalk because I know that that's
going to fill me up for the restof the day, instead of I'm
going to plug in six meetings intwo hours.
Just little tidbits.
I really emphasize tointentionality.
(14:51):
Yes, having that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Intentionality is a word a lot, so I've been
actually trying to cut back onusing it because I feel like I
use it in every podcast ever,but it's true.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
No, it's perfect because it wasn't me saying it,
but really being intentional andsetting you know at first.
I think it's great to be openbecause that's how you figure
out what direction it is youwant to take.
Right, I agree, but how did youget into all this?
Like that makes me curious.
Like how did this path startfor you?
What did it?
What did you know?
(15:20):
Your previous life or path looklike.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh, it was so circuitous, I have to say, but
in a way it wasn't because at avery young age middle school or
younger I was called to do this.
I wanted to be a childpsychologist initially and I
really think, looking back atthat young, at that young me, I
was looking to save myself.
Honestly, being raised in analcoholic family of origin and
(15:45):
being really lost, emotionallyneglected in so many ways I was
looking for an out, I waslooking for connection.
I didn't know it at the time.
Anyway, I did end up going toget my degree to be a therapist,
but the path that I took wasmore again, I kept getting
pulled more of a calling, not aprofession, not what I think I
should do, but really what madesense viscerally.
(16:08):
And so I was called to work withdomestic violence, rape and
sexual assault.
And then, in working withtrauma, I realized I can't do
that without understandingaddiction Right.
So I did some of that and allalong the way I'm doing, doing
my own work Right, and I betthat was so healing too,
incredible, yeah, incredible.
And for me EMDR was, was, waslimiting as well.
(16:31):
And so I was looking forsomething else and talk therapy
wasn't doing it.
I knew I had to kind of shiftthings on a visceral level.
So after my EMDR therapist fora while, maybe two found an IFS
therapist, learned that that wasabsolutely transformative for
me at that point.
So doing my own work along theway really informed how I work
(16:54):
with people.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I mean, and I think for most of us that have these
passions to help and do things,it's from our own life
experience.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Very similar Like.
I grew up around substance abuseof all different kinds, lost my
father at a very young age, sokind of lived through secondary
grief and just, you know, and asan empath and as a you know, a
feeler, a responder I don't knowif you've done life languages,
but I'm like a very highresponder influence, remover
(17:24):
personality.
So it was like, oh, I'm feelingeveryone's junk, what am I
going to do with it?
But it really it's interestingthat you say you knew from a
young age I was like I want togo to school for psychology and
I want to help gymnasts anddancers not go down the same
eating disorder path.
And then I started takingpsychology classes and I'm like
this is not for me right now.
(17:44):
And so I did exercise scienceinstead, which at the time now
looking back I realized was mycoping mechanism, like exercise
and moving my body.
That was how I coped, that washow I got through a life of you
know now knowing it was CPTSD.
I didn't know then because Ifelt great, because I was
(18:05):
balancing it with all the goodhormones from exercise and
moving my body.
And you know, and found a wayyeah, found a way to.
Um, brain scans with Dr andfound a way.
Yeah, found a way to brainscans with Dr Amen 2021.
And then get them, get themagain in 2023 after diving deep
into these different modalitiesand I don't have PTSD anymore
Incredible.
That was, like my whole purposefor this podcast is just
(18:26):
bringing people about that havehave all these different
resources and tools and lifeexperiences, and letting people
know they're not alone.
No, no, we've all gone throughsomething of the sort.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Resources and tools and life experiences and letting
people know they're not alone.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
No, no, We've all gone through something of the
sort.
Right, it's true.
It's true, Whether it's andthrough that, like you said,
going through understanding whataddiction was, understanding
the psychology behind thesedifferent types of life
situations we get into, thesedifferent types of life
(18:59):
situations we get into itallowed me to heal and forgive
and let go of so many, so muchshit.
That wasn't mine.
I was carrying, Like I wascarrying all the things
generational stuff from allsides and, you know, now
realizing that, but also made merealize I have to reevaluate my
own life and make a pivot formy own family.
So it was, you know, my husbandand I, prior to the world
(19:25):
shutting down and me beingpregnant in 2020 and having a
baby in the middle of thepandemic wow, I know we were.
I feel like our life was likeglamorized, Like I would travel
with them to New York and Vegasand Atlanta and all these you
know fun places where we wouldlike sip and chop.
And you know this life where wehad our older kids like half
the time, so we would travelwhen we didn't have them and
(19:46):
back and then, once our son wasborn and we had to, you know,
live full-time parenthood life.
Um, it wasn't glamorous anymore.
We tried to get back to the oldass.
At first it was a shit show.
I'm not going to lie.
Like it was.
(20:07):
I was postpartum.
I was trying to get my bodychemistry and physique back to
normal and you know, my husbandhad these different
opportunities and it was justI'm like we can't.
We can't do this.
Like we really hit like a rockbottom part in our life and
that's kind of what.
Like we did the brain scans andstuff.
It was the best thing we couldhave ever done for ourselves.
(20:27):
Because it was like A drinks aregone.
We can't do this anymore.
It's not worth it.
Yeah, I'm like, I'm not, it'snot fun and it's not glamorous.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And what was it doing to our nervous system?
So me seeing my brain scan him,seeing his Incredible
Understanding what it was doingto our bodies internally, yeah,
which I had never really been,you know, a drinker, partied
much but, like I said, was itwas glamorized, it was fun and
it's everywhere, it's everywhereand it's like why I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, I I stopped a year, over a year and a half
ago really on kind of on a whim.
I was kind of well, I was sickof how I was feeling.
Right, and to look at me, Ididn't think it was really
having an impact on my lifeanywhere.
But I, when I stopped my, mylife exploded in all the best
ways and it was profoundlyuncomfortable.
Alcohol has an ability to keepyou small and you know, I felt
(21:24):
like the walls kind of stay here.
You know where the edge is withalcohol.
Without alcohol, I didn't knowwhere the edge was.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I don't know what to do with that, right, Right, I
love that for you and I didn'tknow that about you.
So that's really cool I lovethat.
Yeah, yeah, and you know I wantto touch on that a bit since we
it just came up, so it's perfect.
You know, I and I don't know ifyou've realized this in your
journey with it as well Not onlyhas it kind of transformed
(21:51):
different social settings andwhatnot, but it makes you
realize like one of my husband'sbiggest things with it is like
my father-in-law has Alzheimer'sand you know, like I said, we
just had a new baby.
I was like, well, I have manyyears left and so I want to take
this seriously now because,knowing what we know about blood
(22:12):
flow and inflammation andeverything else, it's like, okay
, well, that's not going to,it's definitely not going to
slow the process down if I'mpredisposed to anything like
this.
So he made the decision.
I mean, he has like no drinksat all in three years, so super
proud of him, very incredible.
I've dabbled here and thereLike I went to, actually, new
York in March, had a couple ofdrinks with girlfriends one day
(22:33):
and a couple of drinks the nextday, literally just like two.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, what did you think?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I felt so brain dead and disgusting.
I go home.
I'm like I literally cannotthink, I cannot.
I feel so slow, I feel sluggish, my body feels inflamed and
it's almost like you know.
You have to add it back in torealize you don't want it
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly, you know, andit's like I'm one of those
(22:58):
people and I think, because ofjust my history with the rigid
boundaries and eating disorderand stuff like that, I try not
to ever set any hard limits andlike never, never myself.
Um, because I grew up very muchlike I'm never going to be like
them, I'm never going to andit's like okay that backfires,
it's not healthy either, becauseyou're focusing on the never
Right and then you kind of bringthat closer to you.
(23:20):
So I never, never.
So it was interesting becausemy husband kind of sat back and
he was like, and I noticed I wasa little reactive in the way
that I was handling life andgetting back into that and I'm
like this is I don't, I don'tunderstand how I did it before.
I mean, maybe because I sweatedout so much, because I was a
(23:40):
maniac and worked out like threetimes a day or something, but
my adrenals were shot, I bet.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean just for life in general.
But it's just thinking.
It's really hard in the system.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
It is.
It's hard in the system, butit's so socially acceptable.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It is Strangely, although it's interesting, there
are.
I don't know if you read in theNew York Times recently, or
maybe another newspaper, thatmany of the nightclubs in
Brooklyn are shutting down.
Oh, and a big part of that isbecause younger people aren't
drinking.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
You know I love this and I have tried all of those
fun like saints, like all thefun mocktails that are out there
.
Because I've noticed sociallylike, hey, I don't need to drink
to have a good time.
I'm bubbly and like talkativeand all the things.
Anyway, I know it's verydifferent for some people.
It helps them open up, it helpsthem relax and it's like, well,
(24:35):
I've gotten to a place in life.
No, I need to do something togo and relax and I don't think
it's in alignment.
Brilliant.
I love that.
Some things you have to do,like graduations and big parties
, but I've found that even atfirst, I remember taking the
approach of now, you know I'mnot drinking, are you pregnant?
No, I'm just actually notdrinking.
I just don't feel like it.
(24:55):
It makes people uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Sometimes it does, and then they start talking
about how what they're drinkingis or defending it in some way
and somehow like it like you'renot drinking says something
about their drinking.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yes, and it was like hey, you do you.
And I generally don't care LikeI don't care, I'm not judging
you, I'm just making a choicenot to do that, right.
Right, and it's been a reallyinteresting road, has it?
What have you learned?
You know I've learned that,having a very influential
(25:28):
personality, I think it's had atrickle effect on my entire
friend group.
I feel like they've seen like,wow, okay, like I don't really
need to drink for that either,and does it really serve me and
do I feel good afterwards?
And I feel like me and all myfriends are in this, like you
know, late thirties, earlyforties, perimenopausal phase of
(25:48):
life anyway.
So it's like we just need to dothe best we can to stay sane
and help our bodies and regulateanyway.
So it's like we just need to dothe best we can to stay sane
and help our bodies and regulateanyway.
So I think it's like a lot ofthings at once.
I don't think it's just that,but I do feel like it's really
given people permission to makedifferent decisions.
Yes, yes, you know it's notlike everyone has to stop cold
Turkey, but also not judgingthemselves either.
(26:10):
And this is my whole philosophyhey, if you're going to go have
a cocktail, go have a cocktail,absolutely.
But if you're going to go andyou're going to have a cocktail
and you're going to shameyourself and you're going to
guilt yourself, don't do thatRight.
It's not worth it.
It's like it could be the samefor chocolate cake.
It doesn't have to be alcohol,it could be any of our life
choices.
So, yeah, I think, honestly,the biggest thing I've learned
(26:30):
is clarity, though, like anunderstanding how much more calm
and settled and life isoverstimulating enough.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And my world, the world my world, all of it, you
know and it's really allowed.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
My husband and I I mean, let's see, he was our
oldest was 15.
The other 13 and 12.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Let's see, our oldest was 15, the other 13 and 12.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Those are really vulnerable, intense ages, but I
think for them to watch us makeextreme life shifts, that's
incredible In that time frameand for them to see like wow,
like Crystal and dad or mom andMatt, like they are so much more
chill and present, not evenjust like in conversation, but
just in life.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, it's a huge lesson for them.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
We're not going out and just to go out.
And you know, we enjoy beinghome more and, honestly, it's
not really fun when you have alittle one and before.
I think the reason it worked isbecause we would do it without
our kids.
I mean, not that we never haddrinks around our kids, but you
know we would.
It was almost like living adouble life, right, right, but
(27:41):
we don't have that anymore.
So it's like OK, what is thissingular life?
What does this look like for us?
Right, and it's, you know, it'sreally allowed us to go inward.
I wouldn't have been able to dothe deep healing work and facing
all the things if I would havekept alcohol and even caffeine.
I mean, there were two years Ididn't paint my nails, I didn't
(28:02):
have coffee, I didn't havealcohol.
I mean, I went through afterthe brain scan, I went through a
literal detox.
I went vegan for a while.
I took out all meat.
I remember I had to add it back.
I took out all hard, highintensity exercise and just
allowing my body to shed all the.
I essentially tried to rewireeverything and drop all the
(28:25):
previous conditioning.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And then you can re-add as you choose.
What?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
feels good what doesn't feel good.
I started learning about mycycle and how to balance eating
and exercise and like why didn'twe learn this in seventh grade
when we should have learned this, because I could have really
utilized this my whole lifeAbsolutely and like as a woman,
it's you know, see those memesthat pop up.
It's like, oh yeah, my periodcame today.
I'm not really like crazy thatwas it.
(28:51):
Right, I know, but understandinglike how to treat your body,
how to nurture yourself throughthese different phases.
So I mean I feel like I'velearned so much from it, but
particularly to releaseattachments and to stop
identifying.
So I realized I was soidentified with being a fitness
(29:13):
professional and being super fitand attached to the idea that I
needed to be this all the time,to whether it was for
worthiness or more of likeproving it to myself, I think,
because that was something thatgot me through life.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So you shed a lot of ego.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
A lot of ego, and I mean all the all the great books
eckhart tolle, I think is anewer than the power of now, and
michael singer, all thesurrender books, all the um.
My roommate, my mind, drshifali, who's amazing.
Have you read her book?
I have not, I've not.
So, yeah, really letting go ofego and getting back to my true,
(29:54):
authentic self.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Right, and knowing when the ego is coming in, right
, right, and it will keep comingin, and we just have to remind
ourselves generously andcourageously and compassionately
to return home to self.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Well, we're all living the human experience.
Exactly so there's there's alittle bit of that that's going
to trickle in here and thereLike.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I'm really proud of my kid.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's like wow, I'm really honored that I've gotten
to witness this beautiful soulthat I got to bring into the
earth.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
You know, it's like they're not mine.
I don't know, I was just theportal.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I like you know, it's like really, my husband and I
laugh all the time.
We like really pedal it backsometimes and laugh at each
other when we say things likethat.
But what is it, you know?
What has it taught you?
What is this all like?
Your sober journey and whatyou're doing in life?
What is, what is this allreally and where do you feel
like it's going for you?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's.
It's switched quite a bit inthe last couple of years.
Actually it's, I think.
First, dropping alcohol hasallowed me to get in touch with
myself and my more, more than mycapacity.
Just really, like I said to youbefore, I didn't know where.
I knew where the edges were andwithout it everything seems
boundless, which wasuncomfortable.
And now and now it's not.
(31:07):
I am saying yes to the thingsthat are in alignment and I'm
doing things I never would havedone before, and that's that's
where I feel most alive.
So alcohol has allowed me moreexpansion, more, more, more, but
not in a consumption kind ofway, just owning where I want to
be and how I want to be in anauthentic way.
(31:28):
And then, beyond that, there'sthis I've always been intuitive.
Intuitive.
I knew that from a very youngage and putting alcohol down
didn't right of way shift that.
But I'm now hearing thingsyou're going to say before you
say them.
Um, that, that part of me thatpulled me to be a therapist,
that pulls me to be here withyou.
(31:50):
You know the email I sent on awhim and then you called me.
I said I'm going to be herewith you.
You know the email I sent on awhim and then you called me and
said oh, I'm going to be here.
That just happens.
We needed to change a time forsomething.
It just happened.
Things just open up there's.
No, I'm learning not to pushpull also, and when I'm more
open and aligned with self, Ican hear everything, and that
(32:14):
sometimes is a little terrifying.
There's moments where I canmeditate and drop into self, get
to my third eye, where I feelpart of everything, and then
this feels like there's thisportal and do I keep going?
And if I keep going, will Istill exist?
I don't know what to do withthat.
So I in a way, kind of stoppedmyself, in the way I think I was
(32:38):
stopping myself with alcohol,unwittingly knowing.
So I'm playing with a lot ofthat spiritual stuff lately.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You definitely heard what was in my mind, because
that was exactly what I wasgoing to ask you.
How do you feel like yourspiritual connection?
has been since, because for meand my husband I can speak for
him I know he wouldn't mind Imean, for us it's been like,
download after download afterLike you just know, yes, you
know the path is clear, no doubt, and understanding, and
(33:10):
understanding.
And I think it really takessome deep unraveling and getting
through things to know thatthat inner knowing is different
than the voice in the head.
Yes, and knowing that I alwaysknow the voice in the head when
it's the voice in the head orthe roommate, as Michael Singer
would call it that it'ssomething fear-based?
(33:32):
Yes, like if something's comingup that has like fear or
hesitation, or.
But you just know, like the gutfeeling, the intuition, like
it's your inner knowing you canhear things and sometimes you
know it's hard to describebecause it's a feeling you have
when you know it's safe.
Yes, yeah, it's a feeling youhave.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Absolutely it's a screaming green have.
Absolutely it's a, it's a, it'sa, it's a screaming green light
without, without seeing it.
But the the you mentioned youmentioned the fear, the voice
inside.
For me it's, it can be, it canbe.
Fear, all the things, thestories I tell myself that hold
me back but could also be likesomething I want, like the push,
the push, the push.
(34:11):
And I keep learning that lesson.
How did I get here again?
But then that, and for methat's kind of egos in the way,
but I love that place I can getto where I feel I mean divinely
connected to everyone andeverything, and I can't.
It's fleeting, but I like tokeep coming back to it.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I love it and, like you mentioned, like today just
totally worked out and even ourapproach to today.
I'm like, okay, great, you'regoing to be in Tampa, I'll block
this amount of time.
We'll start with coffee, we'llsee where the day goes.
I'll book the studio, just incase we ended up flipping it.
And here we are and I think ifwe had filmed it Exactly and so,
(34:59):
and that's just that level ofauthenticity and inner knowing,
just trusting the processAbsolutely and just trusting
okay, it's, it's in alignment,it's supposed to be here.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yes, and I think that sometimes, where we can go awry
, that that that trusting theprocess involves vulnerability,
and that I mean for me, but thattrusting the process involves
vulnerability, and that I meanfor me, is profoundly difficult.
So then the fears or the tryingto control comes in and all of
that, and if I can take a breathand say, all right, this has
all happened anyway, I reallyhave no control, right, and just
(35:28):
allow, well then I can feel alot better and it all happens
exactly the way it needs to be,even the things I think, oh, you
know, get angry about or thiswent wrong.
It's all an opportunity, it'sall a gift.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Right.
There are always lessons andopportunities and up for growth
and evolution in any situationand I think it's a really great,
appropriate time to bring thisup.
You know, as a practitioner, assomeone who helps others, like
you still experience life, youstill have get angry, you still
(36:06):
have your moments of emotion,and it's interesting to me that
you know there's no, obviouslyno, places like it's not, like
healing is not a destination,like there's no, like I'm healed
Like my dog therapist or lifecoach, whatever you want to call
her, and I joke about this allthe time.
Every time I'm likeeverything's smooth sailing but
I'm opening, keeping space openfor pivoting keeping it open for
pivoting Because if I ever werelike you know what?
(36:28):
Oh everything, nothing couldtrigger me.
Now it's like, oh yeah, sister,but it's allowing yourself to
still be a part of the humanexperience, yes, and exposing
that vulnerability.
That that's life, right, andthat's the whole.
I think the beauty of talkingabout this and even having a
podcast, it's letting peopleknow like it's OK.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
It's going to happen if you've got to give yourself
grace.
Yes, the other day, looking formy daughter's passport, she
can't find it anywhere I wasenraged for about an hour,
Enraged.
She asked me a question.
I answered it, but I was supersnarky.
I was like I'm not being honesthere, I'm just being nasty.
So you know the leading withlove kind of I went off track
(37:11):
for a moment.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Bring myself back but I'm sure you held yourself
accountable.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
You owned your shit and you guys worked through it.
I owned the shit and that'sjust it.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know, in life, in relationships, and that I feel
like has been the biggest partof the journey.
Like to get back to earlier,like what have I learned through
?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
all of this is accountability.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, like that is the key.
Yes, until I started holdingmyself accountable for the way I
felt, for the way I wasreacting to life, the way I was
responding to life, the way Iwas behaving, the way I was
perceiving all the things.
Yeah, and stop projecting itand making it someone else's
(37:54):
stuff.
Right, that's.
That was the game changer 100%.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I always say to people you know you can't change
anyone else, but there's asecret.
I damn sure tried.
Well, you can.
You can by leaving them alone,right, by changing you.
Yes, you change that system,the family, the relationship.
The guy at the takeout, youknow, is having a bad day, by
(38:22):
changing you and approaching ina different way changes
everything around you andchanges others.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, and I don't think I would have been able to
do that if I would have stayedon the, you know, social
drinking path.
I think that was something thatreally just helped me.
Let go of it, Because I thinkfor me it was one of those
things that, you know, stuffcomes up, Like you know, if we
want to get to the science of itall if you consume any sort of
(38:47):
like substance in your body,it's going to dull your level of
consciousness, your, yourintuition, your, and then, like
old stuff, might surface and butI really feel like allowing
myself that space and time to beclear mm-hmm.
And gave me the differentperspective and the and I let go
(39:09):
of anything I could do better,because I knew I was doing my
best.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I let go of anything I could do better.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Anything I could do better, like the thought of I
could do this better.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Because I knew I was doing my best.
Yes, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, Don't let perfection or the pursuit of it
get in the way of.
Good enough, and I was a seekerof perfection all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
And for what?
Because no one's perfect.
No, but it was like, if I cancontrol this, if I can control
the way I look, if I can controlhow much I do is or how cool
the gift is we give someone youknow it's going to be no like,
because, guess what like no oneelse really cares no.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
And what if it was all okay just as it was?
Speaker 1 (39:55):
yeah, and I think one of the four agreements book.
Have you read that book?
I have not.
Oh, it's so great.
He talks, um, he talks about Iforget the name of the guy, I
guy to send it to you but doingyour best and knowing that your
best is different on a dailybasis.
So I knew, like if I showed upmy best self, if I nurtured my
(40:30):
body in the right way whetherthat was rest or eating carbs
before workout or after workout,or if it was sitting down and
really being attentive, helpingmy kid with homework and, you
know, just filling my cup inways that I knew I was doing my
best, not half assing, not, youknow, being halfway in a
conversation and looking at myphone and trying to answer
questions, or, you know,checking emails at stoplights
and like being intentional.
Getting back to beingintentional, that's when I think
it really also started tochange, because it gives you
that different level ofownership yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I mean, I was thinking well, what if my best
is like too hard to get to inone day or that feels like too
much?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
but it varies depending on my capacity,
depending if I slept enough or Iexercised or I nourished or if
you're traveling or if you'reoverstimulated, you have a big
event and, like in my a fewdifferent aspects of life, I
feel like part of my life iscommunity events.
So a big community eventspeaking in front of hundreds of
people and, um, you know, Iknow that after those big event
(41:22):
days I need to have my calendaras clear as possible.
I need to ask for help pickingup the kids after school.
I know that my best self needsto rest because I need to
energetically cleanse the, andyou know, and is it always
possible?
No, you know, sometimes I haveto go through car line and do
all the things and and don'tcan't utilize all of my
(41:44):
resources.
So it's a matter of okay.
So what are the next steps?
Pivoting, like I know, a longshower is going to help if I
can't do the other things, andjust finding really what works
for you in those everyday kindof micro healing moments.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Taking care of yourself like you would someone
you love.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Exactly.
So what does that look like foryou?
What are your kind of dailyroutines and rituals and micro
healing things Like?
Is it getting outside?
And for me I love to getoutside and put my feet in the
grass or move my body in somesort of way.
I don't schedule it as crazy asI used to, but, you know, just
really adapting to and listeningto what I need that day, mm hmm
(42:23):
, I like to get enough sleep.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I am kind of a little crazy around sleep.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I love that so.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I think that's where it starts A lot of the
foundation.
But I certainly I love to beout in the water, out in nature,
walking a dirt road, hiking.
I want to move my body on theregular.
So usually the morning we'llstart, we'll start with that and
water, water, water, whetherright on the boat, at the beach
(42:51):
in the shower in the bathtublike any type of water.
Yeah, and doing what I do, it'snot, it's not work, it's.
You know people ask me all thetime how do you listen to those
stories, how do you listen topeople all day?
It's not listening to thosestories, it's it's.
I may hear some horrific things.
That's not what I take with me,because we're transforming
(43:13):
something and everything changesenergetically.
What really I leave my workwith is energized most of the
time.
You know there are thosemoments where there are stories
that might stay stuck a littlebit of the time.
You know there are thosemoments where there are stories
that might stay stuck a littlebit, um, but so my, my, my, my
work, my, my passion, my, myfirst love, trauma and addiction
(43:34):
, the work that I do in theworld.
That feeds me.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Um, yeah, and that's so important and, again, that
shows that you were on the paththat is appropriate for you in
this moment.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yes.
Yes that is appropriate for youin this moment, yes, lifetime
yes, and, like you've said, alsoknowing when it's too much, in
the days where I can pull backor do less um, and that's really
important too and how do youreally get to the point where
you're feeling or you're knowingit's too much.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
What does that kind of look like, feel like, for?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
you, um, when I notice that I don't want to do
the work that day, right, andthen I know, oh, maybe next week
or tomorrow I need to makeextra space where I'm not
serving others.
So it's a very clear, becauseit doesn't happen very often,
but it comes out and clear.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
And then how do you find that you cleanse yourself,
shift the energy, come back toyou after a long work day or
taking on and actually hadanother friend, lisa Klein, who
is a therapist and we talkedabout this as well, and just the
importance of kind of honoringyou and like you said, you can't
(44:45):
always like clear your day,because people are depending on
you that day.
You know, you don't you don'tyou want to follow through?
Because again, that's showingup as your best self and
following through with your word.
But how do you kind of, if it'sa day that's too much, and how
do you?
How do you cleanse through A?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
lot of times, most of the time it's in my office is
generally at home these days.
A lot of times, most of thetime it's in my office is
generally at home these days.
Last session ends and I taketime for myself.
I know, you know, a familymember needs something, a
daughter needs something else.
Phone calls need to beresponded to, texts needed to be
dealt with.
I'll leave it all alone andI'll take a few minutes, and
(45:29):
that is a really good transitionmoment for me between what I
was doing for others,acknowledging myself, taking a
breath, and then I can go backout.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, I love that and I really want to emphasize the
importance of giving yourselfthat space to transition.
It is really important, whetherthat be stepping outside and
getting a breath of fresh airand just standing in the
sunlight for a minute, like Idid a podcast.
You would love my friend JenSmith, by the way, she's one of
(45:57):
the we did a podcast and whatare you going to do about it?
Like it's just verystraightforward, you love her,
you just need to come down andspend more time.
Yes, yes, we have to play this,but I was doing two podcasts
back to back, which I hardlyever do.
But I was like, oh, I'm alreadydoing one, let's do one, Cause
she and I really wanted to get asecond one in, and she walked
in and she's like all right, youneed to go outside and get your
sunshine for a second and thenwe'll come back in.
(46:19):
I was like you know me too well,um, and and that's just it,
like knowing that, even if it'sa quiet car ride or or the tunes
cranked up and singing at thetop of your lungs with the
windows down and the hairblowing and whatever that means
for you or you know, liketapping my chest and just
(46:41):
getting some physical movementout If I'm sitting in front of
my computer all day, taking abrain break, taking a movement
break, but giving myselfpermission to not have that
instant response because we'revery driven like that these days
it's like everything has to belike immediate, it's like, but
it really doesn't.
If someone emails you at 9am,you don't have to get back to
(47:04):
them at 9.06.
You can get back to them at2.30.
You can get back to them thenext day.
I was going to say that.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Is that radical?
Speaker 1 (47:10):
No, like you don't have to, because guess what it
teaches?
It gives them the opportunityto A find some space and time
for themselves, and compassionand understanding, and give them
permission to do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Right, and what I love about that, too, is you're
teaching others how to react orto be with you, which is right.
I'm not going to be at yourbeck and call every you know.
As soon as the text comes,comes through, right, I'm going
to be known as the person whoresponds in two hours or
tomorrow, and nothing's wrong.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
And I think now my people are probably like she's
probably outside with her feetin the grass or hanging in a
tree somewhere.
That's okay, and I probably am,and that's okay too.
That's so great.
But it's really and I do wantto touch on that a bit and I'm
sure you've experienced it andyour practice and people you
work with Like, how do you coachpeople through navigating
(48:06):
boundaries and setting thesehealthy boundaries for their own
mental health and healing andprocessing?
I mean, you know, just thinkingabout my high schoolers, you
know they're walking around,they have their AirPods in,
they're on Snapchat, they'retrying to listen to their
teachers.
They have four minutes to getto the next class.
It's like do you really learnanything like that?
Speaker 2 (48:27):
No, no way.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
We're just memorizing , we're taking tests, and it's
like, well, what's it all forthat?
We're going to spend how muchmoney sending them to college to
do the same thing?
And it's like, but like it's sooverstimulating, right now more
so than ever, and we're notbuilt for this?
Speaker 2 (48:50):
No, not at all.
Like we're not built for this,no, nope.
So how do you coach people onthat?
I mean, I think what I found ismaybe what you found, which is,
if I tell people that doesn'treally bring about any change, I
can, I might be able to see itvery clearly, you know, with an
ex abusive husband or with ademanding, you know boss or
something, um, or a friend whois just boundaryless Right, but
(49:11):
ultimately I don't feel likethey're going to listen to the
advice or what I think theboundaries would be.
It really begins with self,right, coming back to what feels
good to you, what are yourrhythms, and once you can listen
to that and get in touch withthat, then the boundaries with
others become clear.
Same thing, you know, withself-love.
(49:31):
I can't tell someone how tolove someone else.
It really starts with self.
But I can guide them into selfand find that for themselves,
and then that radiates outward.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I love that.
Thanks, yeah, I really lovethat because it's really I mean,
just think of like parenting,for example.
I lost all respect for adultsaround me when I was adolescence
age because I'm like who areyou to tell me how to live when
you're treating your body andyour mind and you're not
(50:05):
connected to yourself?
I get like who the hell are youto tell me how to live and act
and what to do?
And so I just again started therigid boundary.
But I knew, and I think it waspart of that intuitive push,
that everything had to changeall at once for me and my
husband during this phase ofsitting in our shit.
(50:25):
But he knew too, during thisphase of sitting in our shit.
But he knew too, he knew hewanted to change and needed to
make some shifts.
And I know I wanted to, andtogether we knew we needed to,
you know, create a healthieratmosphere.
And just so happened to be whenmy children were the age I was
when I started to lose therespect, and that you know.
(50:47):
It's interesting and I'm sureyou've seen this pattern.
A lot is like we internally getthese and I have like chili
bombs, right now all over and myeyes are watering.
But we internally get calledwhen we hit those life shift
ages and patterns.
Absolutely Like we internally,you call it like spirit
alignment.
(51:08):
You know guides telling you howto go.
You're guided, you're protected, you can do this shift and it's
a matter of taking thestillness, the time to set back
and trusting the process of thatRight, because it's real.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
It is, it is, and if you don't follow it, you will
feel the anxiety come up, therage, the discomfort, the
disease, the regret, the shame,the guilt all the things so true
.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
All the things that and that's actually something I
want to touch on.
Yeah, shame, okay, bring it on,let's talk about it.
And how.
You know, what I've realized islike I was holding so much
shame for people that it wasn'tmy stuff to carry.
So I held shame of, like howyou know, my mom portrayed
(51:55):
herself when I was younger, ormy family when I was younger,
and it's like they loved meunconditionally.
They did the best they couldwith the tools that they had at
the time.
Now I know that, but I remembergrowing.
I actually went home and I wasreading this thing I wrote in
like fourth grade and I'mreading it and I'm like this
(52:16):
isn't all true.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
So I would put tidbits of real life and then
tidbits of what I wanted life tolook like, and it was like oh,
bless her heart Like she was shehad so much shame, like she
didn't want to tell her lifestory, right?
You know she didn't want to talkabout how her dad died and her
(52:40):
mom came in and out and you knowshe was raised by her
grandparents and so it wasinteresting that I gave a little
bit, but then I portrayed it tobe what I thought.
I think people wanted to hear,right, and what I thought, and
people don't care.
It was me holding the shamearound that.
So that was something thatreally took me back to.
(53:00):
It was one of those almostunexpected things.
I was like, wow, I don'tremember writing this, but I'm
like, oh, bless her heart, yeah.
Now you can heal her oh yeah,absolutely Like I wrote her a
letter.
I've written myself at alldifferent ages letters.
Usually I feel like for me it'shappened in sevens.
Big life events at seven at 14,at 21, at 28.
You know yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Isn't that?
Doesn't it take seven years forour body to completely?
Speaker 1 (53:24):
regenerate, yeah.
So it's like I've literallybeen a different person.
But, interestingly enough, I'vemade huge life shifts.
Like at seven, I made thedecision to live with my
grandparents full time.
I didn't want to live with mymom at all.
At 14, I completely cut my momout of my life until I was 21.
I revisited and circled backand then I was like, okay, this
still isn't going to work in thehealthy dynamic that it's
(53:46):
supposed to work in 28, got adivorce from my first husband,
35, had my son started thiswhole deep journey.
So it's like I have literallymade huge shifts.
So I'm like, oh God, what does42 look like?
Like I got two years, hopefully, good stuff, right, all good
stuff, I'm excited.
So Shay, good stuff, All goodstuff, I'm excited.
(54:08):
So she, yeah, getting.
Like how would you give me yourperspective on it?
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Well, I was thinking about the difference between
shame and guilt, and I kind ofwanted all of us to be on the
same page.
You know, guilt is I didsomething wrong, right.
Shame is I am wrong.
Yeah, right, I'm not worthy,I'm not good enough, I'm not
lovable at those deep I wouldsay irrational negative beliefs
(54:33):
that we we take on in childhoodas a way to survive, because to
believe that mom can't take careof me is to really think I mean
that's too terrifying, becauseif mom can't take care of me,
therefore I mean that's can Ilive, I'm going to die, right.
So you take that on yourself.
I'm not lovable, I'm not goodenough for her to show up for me
, or whatever that story is, ofcourse.
(54:55):
Then you see it, we bring thatinto adulthood, we hold on to it
and you can see that wreakhavoc on our lives all over the
place and trickle into all ofour relationships and the people
or partners that we choose andthe friends that we choose the
environments we get ourselvesinto Right.
So I mean, like with everythingelse, I think you've heard me
say you know I would say so,what?
(55:16):
So what does shame have toshare with you?
What does she want you to know?
How old is shame?
What does she look like?
Where do you feel her in yourbody?
And then, ultimately, onceyou've really connected with her
and you've empathized with herand you sat with her for a while
, then what do you need from me?
Where do you want to be in thisworld?
Do you want to stay in theshame, back in the house you
(55:38):
grew up in?
I can't tell you how many partsof myself I pulled out of that
house on three Upland Road inNeedham.
Tons of them, and imaginethere's still more coming.
But each time I pull one out ofthat house and give her
liberation and freedom, I becomefreer.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
It's going to make me cry Same.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
You know in writing You've been there.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Oh, I've been there I've done all the things and you
know writing.
I've found that writing areletters.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Whether it's a hey.
This is why your life actuallyis going to turn out to be Right
and you're going to utilize allof the things that you're
holding right now to help somany people.
Yes, yes, and that, for me, isthe internal driving system, and
I think if there's anythingthat I really want people to
(56:33):
hear from this today is you canmake all of the ugly anything
that's ever you've experiencedin your life you can pay it
forward and you can help so manypeople.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Absolutely no doubt.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
It takes the courage to face it.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Yes, and feel it, and feel it, and feel it.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
So if there is anything that you really want to
emphasize or you want people tohear you on, what would that be
today?
Speaker 2 (57:02):
Oh, so many things.
But if there's one thing Icould say, um, slow down, be
curious.
And um, there's.
There's nothing that is beyondtransformable If you give it
space.
If you give it space,everything is transformable If
(57:23):
you give it space.
That is so true throughconnection to self and others.
Thank you, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Absolutely.
Thank you for this lovelyconnection.
Oh, you're welcome and honestly, that actually brought it up
for me and I feel like I could.
I should say this to wrap itall up but I think my mom is a
perfect example of that.
You know she had to go toprison to find her space but she
came out of that and she's paidit forward.
(57:49):
Wow, she has transition houseswhere she has curriculum to help
women who have been throughprostitution and trafficking and
prison and she goes and speaksto people on death row and gives
them kind of a little bit oflife and forgiveness for
themselves, regardless of whatthe outcome is.
So incredible and forgivenessfor themselves, regardless of
(58:10):
what the outcome is.
So you know it's healed myrelationship with her, forgiving
her the space to be herself anddo her thing, knowing walking
through forgiveness, knowingthat whatever she did when I was
a kid had nothing to do with meand knowing that it was up to
me, with how I responded to allof that.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (58:29):
So I think that you probably had a similar
experience with your ownupbringing and things and just
knowing, like you know what youhad to own your part.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
Absolutely yeah, yeah , and do it with grace.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yes, oh my gosh, I feel like we could talk for like
four hours.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
I would love to.
I know we're going to do thisagain.
Okay, we're going to have apart two, and I feel like we
could talk for like four hours.
I would love to.
I know we're going to do thisagain.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Okay, we're going to have a part two, and I feel like
we need to clap on somethingfun.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Yes, please Go deeper .
Speaker 1 (58:52):
Let's go deeper, go deeper, we're going to go deep
and yes, I feel like there isall kinds of fun stuff coming
for us.
So thank you, Tammy, forjoining me today and for
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