Can women find true success without sacrificing their femininity?

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Can high-performing women find true success without sacrificing their well-being? Join us in a compelling conversation with MC Charette, a feminine embodiment coach, ceremonial guide, and movement facilitator, as she unpacks the perils of over-relying on masculine traits. MC illuminates how this imbalance leads to physical and emotional exhaustion, and shares transformative insights on embracing feminine receptivity to restore harmony. We also tackle challenging questions on the roles men and the feminist movement have played in shaping our current dynamics.

Explore the intricate balance of nurturance, creativity, and energy within relationships. MC discusses how societal pressures push women to fit into a masculine-driven world, often leading to a disconnection from their true selves. We highlight the journey towards reclaiming one's desires for love and creativity, and the hurdles faced when transitioning from a work mode to a space of intimacy and connection. This episode also bravely critiques the life coaching industry, shedding light on the lack of integrity and embodiment in some of its practices.

Discover the profound concepts of radical acceptance and embodied leadership as MC guides us through the journey of connecting with our bodies and emotions. We explore how understanding and managing masculine and feminine dynamics are crucial for personal growth and healthier relationships. From the benefits of prayer and ceremonial work to addressing the mental health crisis among men, this episode offers a holistic approach towards achieving balance. Tune in and gain valuable insights on maintaining humility and integrity in both personal and professional arenas.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Laughing Through the Pain
Navigating Wellness with me,andrew Esam, my co-host, dr
Richard L Blake, and today wewill be speaking to MC Charette,
who is a feminine embodimentcoach, ceremonial guide and
movement facilitator.
I don't know about you, rich,but I quite like speaking to

(00:21):
people who specialize in thefeminine, because I learn a hell
of a lot and it's not somethingwe can ever speak to, really.
So what do you think?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
yeah, we definitely gonna learn a lot in this
episode about masculine femininedynamics.
You know this kind of trendyword.
You know to be in one'smasculine, to be in one's
feminine.
We're gonna find out why that's, that's good, and and what
happens when you're not in yourmasculine or your feminine.
Uh and yeah, mc is a real uh,she's a real wealth of knowledge

(00:52):
around masculine and femininedynamics and she is, uh, also a
biohacker as well.
So she's got that kind ofperspective of a kind of modern
approach to spirituality andwellness and things like that,
which I think people are goingto enjoy.
I think they're also going toenjoy her accent.
We had a lot of comments on thepodcast recently.

(01:15):
She's from the american south,she lived in texas, but she's
got a real nice southern drawland I think that's good for our
English listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
She speaks with a lot of integrity and authenticity
and also she's very open andvulnerable and honest.
I think that always comesacross really, really well.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
We ask her some challenging questions about have
men let women down?
Has the feminist movement gonetoo far?
We'll hear her takes on that aswell as um what it means to be
a somatic coach and ceremonialwork the importance of
ceremonial work.
And also we ask our new classicquestions what makes her laugh

(01:59):
and what's about the?

Speaker 1 (02:00):
life coaching industry.
So, and I also like that, wespeak a little bit about prayer,
which is something that'sperhaps a forgotten art or
something that people haverejected with more traditional
religion, and actually I find itsuper helpful.
So we'll get her thoughts andyour thoughts and my thoughts on

(02:22):
that.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
All right, enjoy, lesnar.
We'll see you in about 55minutes.
Hey listener, quick favour,quick favour.
Do you like my Stephen Bartlettimpression there?
Do you know?
What would really help us is ifyou could share this podcast
with someone you love, if youthink it's good, and if you
don't think it's good, share itwith someone you don't love.

(02:45):
Either way, we get morelisteners, which is good for us
and will be good for you in thelong run, because of karma and
going to heaven, maybe.
So, yeah, maybe.
Share that you are listening toit.
Share on Instagram, take ascreenshot of our episode and
put it out there, and maybewe'll give you a shout out as

(03:05):
well.
Mc, you help hyper-masculinewomen embody their femininity.
So have women become toomasculine?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Oh, wow, Okay great.
Have women become too masculine?
I would say women have sincethe you know.
I mean they've really begun torely on masculine ways of
functioning in order to getahead.
And you know I work with reallyhigh performing women, so you
know they're in the workplace,they're in, you know, high
levels, you know whether they'rea founder entrepreneur and

(03:42):
oftentimes, in order to arriveat where they've arrived,
they've a founder entrepreneurand oftentimes, in order to
arrive at where they've arrived,the only thing they've known to
do really is to kind of harnessmasculine ways of being.
So, to answer your question, Iwould say it's so nuanced
because I would hate to say, yes, they've become too masculine.
But what I have noticed, andwhat I see across the board with
my clients, with my friends, isthat the dial on masculine

(04:06):
functioning has been reallyturned up, whereas the dial on
feminine receptivity has beenreally either turned down or not
utilized at all.
And so what I find to be reallyuseful is to support a woman in
first of all.
Let's just turn the dial onthese hyper-masculine
functionings which, in anotherway of saying this, you could
probably say like in justhyper-doing or over-functioning

(04:29):
or over-giving, and I say theword over, because these
qualities of the masculine arewonderful being a giver and a
protector, and these ways ofbeing and yet it's when it's
just a little too high that Isee a ton of ailments within the
physical body happen and notgetting what you want in sex and
relationships.
These are the things that womencome to me and say they're

(04:51):
experiencing and they don't evenknow that it's usually a result
of the speaker system being soloud on how they're functioning
in the world and that doingbehavior, how they're
functioning in the world andthat doing behavior.
And when we look to the left,let's just say the areas of

(05:12):
being are really not utilizedand so that's what we get to
work at doing.
It's like where's the beingvolume in your life?
So I would say, to answer yourquestion directly, knowing that
it's really nuanced, but I wouldsay yes, I believe that, on the
whole, women are functioningfar more like a man than is
actually giving them what theywant.
Say yes, I believe that, on thewhole, women have are
functioning far more like a manthan is actually giving them
what they want.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
So, yes, and you mentioned that, like women are
coming to you who realize this,I suppose how would you kind of
reach out or help those whomaybe don't know that that is
the case or that they are kindof going that way?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, yeah, it's funny because I don't actually
use this language they don't.
Well, sometimes they're awareenough to say, okay, I'm
functioning in my masculine, butoftentimes they just come to me
and they say I'm exhausted, I'mnot having the sex I want, I'm
not actually, I don't.
I haven't called in thatpartner that I'm really longing
for.
You know, I'm in my latethirties, early forties and I've

(06:02):
got all the success in allthese other areas of my life,
but something is deeply missingand specifically I want to
partner in a family.
I mean, this is an epidemicthat we're facing here and we
could go into deep conversationsabout the feminist movement
that started in the 60s and theintroduction of the birth
control pill and how that reallyfundamentally transformed women
in the workplace and what'shappening there.

(06:23):
But I think right now we'reexperiencing a pretty large net
negative to that movement, tothe feminist movement.
But again, going back to yourquestion, they don't necessarily
know I'm hyper-masculinefunctioning.
If they could say anything,andy, they would say something.
And they do say something, likeI feel like I need to get into
my feminine because they'veheard it somewhere.
But they don't even really knowwhat that means.

(06:44):
And that's okay, you know, Iunderstand that, but the real
thing that has them comecrawling to me in some sense is
like I'm freaking exhausted.
I'm exhausted and I don't havethe relationship I want Tends to
be the things.
That's really the high painpoint for these type women who
are very successful in otherareas.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, going back to that first question, I did kind
of make it a black or white andyou did give us a black or white
answer.
I think that there is nuance.
I think the you know, thefeminist revolution has worked
for a lot of people, but notnecessarily everyone, not
necessarily these burnt outwomen, these women who come to
you with unhappy in theirrelationships, and I sometimes

(07:24):
I've heard it say before, likein um sort of uh, black women
have said you know, white women,why do you get to speak to all,
for all?
Feminists?
And I think, further to that,like it's not just you know,
going back to just all women, Ithink feminists shouldn't speak
for all women, because therecertainly are women who don't
necessarily want to be ceos orpresidents or prime ministers or

(07:45):
soccer players or whatever theythey want to be doing.
There are a lot of women whoreally value the traditional
role and why is that not okay?
Why is it not okay to to aspireto be a great mother or a great
housekeeper or a great you knowparent or wife or things like
that?
I think that's become soundervalued.
It's almost now like the past.
It was like you were shamed ifyou wanted a career.

(08:05):
Now you're shamed.
If you want to be a greatmother, are you in agreement
with that?

Speaker 3 (08:11):
I am in full agreement with that and I think
that's exactly what we're seeinghere and it's really beautiful
to see a return to wait a minute.
I actually am nurturing and Iwant to express that nurturance
in the world, and that might bethrough having giving birth to a
child, and that might also justbe through really activating
and opening into the creativepotential that I am as a woman

(08:31):
and creating the space and timeto preserve that part of me, the
part of me that longs tonurture and create that I've
really had to put aside, orchosen to put aside because of
the cultural narrative that inorder to win in this world, you
need to basically override yourbody's signals for what you need
to work more, push more, bemore.

(08:52):
You know and again I love whatyou're saying, richard that's
gotten us to a certain place.
I really believe that we had to, and again, I can't speak for
all women, but the women who didchoose this narrative and chose
to like you know, and God bless, because it's gotten us so far
as in equality, if you want tocall it that but they really had
to disconnect from I'm thinkingin this moment I don't want to
sound but disconnect from theirwomb space in order to forget

(09:15):
again when.
So, yes, I agree with that, Iagree that with what you're
sharing about the differencethere, and I'm seeing a lot more
women.
Just, it's really beautiful tosee these otherwise high-powered
women saying I want to be inlove and I want a child.
It's like, yeah, man, andthat's beautiful and natural.

(09:35):
And if that's not what you want, then that's beautiful and
natural as well.
But you get to be in thatchoice.
And I think we're seeing a lotmore of that, a really beautiful
moment of women being like okay, you know, the boss girl era is
kind of dying.
Calm down everybody.
What do you, as an individualwoman, really want and what does

(09:56):
that mean to you?
And so, again, the ones whofind their way to me are the
ones who are yeah, there's alonging inside for more.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Has there been any kind of pushback to the work
you're doing then?
Any opposition.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Not that I've experienced.
I think the first thing thatcomes to mind, andy, on that is
just that I have my tend to runmy work by referral base, and so
I haven't yet I'm just now inthe positioning of myself into a
more front, facing messaging,and so I will have to get back
to you on that, because up untilnow I've been enjoying the
luxury of just getting to, yeah,people who love my work
recommend me, and then we justkeep going down the river, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
You seem a lot more likable than Rich.
He's constantly getting bashedfor his work, so you know.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, you know, and I was.
Another thing that I thought,andy, is that I have yet to
really take a stance that wouldbe polarizing.
Is that I have yet to reallytake a stance that would be
polarizing?
I don't know if that's reallymy style, but if it ever is
something I feel called to do, Iwill speak to it.
I think the place where I'mreally feeling called to be
polarizing if it does occur isthat when I begin to speak of
the coaching industry as a whole, you know, and the lack of

(10:58):
integrity I see and the lack ofembodiment I've experienced and,
yeah, people are really goodmarketers- but not necessarily
good practitioners, but don'tget me started on that in the
moment.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
We will.
We're rich, yeah, we will getyou started.
Brilliant, excellent.
We've got more questions tocome on that.
I do want to talk about thecoaching industry now that
you've brought that up, but Ialso just want to continue on
the masculine feminine dynamic.
So I do see people, friends,who have really bought into this
idea of you know there is nosuch thing as gender roles and,
uh, you know, we women are justthe same as men and men are just

(11:33):
the same as women.
Men need to be more feminineand more emotional and women
need to be more masculine andmore like presidential and ceos
and they often they don't havegreat sex lives because, you
know, the woman is moremasculine than the man and the
man is more feminine than thewoman and the woman is standing
in the masculine space andthere's no space for the man to

(11:55):
be a man and hence there's nosexual attraction.
This is coming from the work ofDavid Deida, but that sounded
like what you were speaking tothere.
So what do you prescribe forthat kind of problem?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
You opened up a whole thing.
I mean just the narrativehappening right now in gender
identity.
That would be speaking way outof my depth.
But going to your directquestion regarding how do I
speak to this, I work with thisin a really practical way.
What you're really referring to, and I guess what I see more in
my practice, is women who havebeen at the computer all day,
who have been functioning inthat masculine way.
What you're really referring to, and guess what I see more in
my practice, is women who havebeen at the computer all day,
who have been functioning inthat masculine way, who have

(12:28):
been doing what they do,building their empires, let's
just call it, you know, for lackof a better term.
And then they expect themselvesto be able to switch instantly
into openness and connection andintimacy with their partner,
whether it's a female or a malepartner, but let's just say it's
a partner that holds thatmasculine energy.
But they've been in thismasculine space.
Well, now you've just got likethe polar opposites, trying to

(12:48):
connect.
And so you know again, they'vebeen working all day, they try
to go to in the kitchen andmaking dinner, for instance, and
what I've found so often, eventhough there's love let's just
call it love between the two ofthem.
Women like this.
They will get like, be touchedand their whole nervous systems
will contract and they don'twant any touch.
And yeah, there's just anarrative that we're expected as
women and we put this pressureon ourselves and we just haven't

(13:11):
been taught, quite frankly,like, how to do this whole thing
.
And so I have a practice that I, for instance, like I have a
really specific 15 minute,almost 20 minute practice that I
give my clients and I canactually share with anyone who
would want it which is frommoving from computer to
connection is what I call it, orreally what it's doing.

(13:32):
It's actually coming back intoan erotic reset, resetting your
erotic energy.
It's not necessary that you'reusing your erotic energy when
you're working during the day,so in a practical sense, it's
really helping women to begin todispel the energy from being on
the computer all day to reallyjust letting go of that part, so
that they can then begin toawaken into and back home to

(13:55):
their true essence and thenbegin to connect with their
loved ones and family.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, and these are practices.
My whole practice is based onpractice and I think, without
practices like literalembodiment practices, practices
where we get into our body, wemove, sound breath.
For women especially that's whoI work with yeah, we're just,
we are doomed because the energywill stay primarily in our

(14:17):
heads.
And then we think we don'tunderstand why we don't want to
have sex.
We don't understand why wedon't feel pleasure.
We don't understand why we'renot actually experiencing what
we want in intimacy.
It's like, well, all of yourprimary energy is in your head
and that's let's get it into thebody.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, you mentioned a bit about practices and your
practice is all about practicing.
Can you talk a bit more abouthow you, how you start working
with someone, how you kind ofintroduce some of this?

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, you know the way I've found and I've been
coaching for you know I took alarge.
I took about six years off fromcoaching, but I did start in
like 2010, but the time in whichI took off because I was in no
space to be coaching anybody.
So it was time for me to get myown medicine and deepen in my
own embodiment what it was Iwanted to teach.
So, anyway, what I'vediscovered in the past couple of

(15:02):
years is that when a clientcomes to work with me, one of
the most profound ways that wecan actually ensure
transformation happening is bysetting a very clear container
as to the work we're setting outto do.
And I really work in aceremonial way.
It doesn't mean I need to beusing plant medicine, but
ceremonial speaking up to we arelike really calling your soul

(15:25):
and your body, like in yourfuture, to the forefront of this
intention, and so one of thefirst ways in which I work with
women is really getting clear onthat and coming into like a
prayerful, ceremonial opening toour work together.
Then, practically speaking, youknow, one of the places that
I've found we always start is inreally approving of exactly

(15:49):
where she is like, helping herto really arrive in absolute
approval of exactly where herbody is, exactly where her
nervous system is, exactly whereher relationships are, finances
, and we do that, you know,obviously through talking.
But I have a couple ofdifferent practices in which
working with her live.
Of course, we do some somaticwork together, but ultimately,

(16:11):
giving her some things that shecan do when we're not together,
that is really just bathing inthe okayness of exactly where
she is.
I found that, to set out on anyjourney, that this is exactly
where we need to start, becauseso much of the issues that we as
women face are because of thecriticisms we place on ourselves
, and I found that this reallydoes.
About 85% of the work isactually just accepting where we

(16:33):
are.
And then, ultimately, that'sthe work that we're doing is I'm
really supporting a woman intobeing in an embodied place of no
matter what is occurring in herlife.
She's able to be in fullacceptance and non-resistance to
what is, and so we start thereand we kind of continue there.
Does that answer that question?
And then we build from that,yeah, yeah.

(16:54):
And then we build from that.
We see, okay, how do we getinto the deeper nuances here?
Okay, so what are somepractices that we can stack on
top of radical acceptance, andthen how?
Skill depends on how developedthe woman is in personal
development and her skills.
We can go as deep into goinginto alchemy, where we're now,
we're utilizing and we're kindof accessing feelings of stress

(17:14):
and anxiety and overwhelm andshe's able to now tap into those
feelings that have otherwise,you know, pervaded and ruined
her life and now she canactually expand into them and be
a non-resistance to them andutilize them for the turn on in
her body.
That's a pretty high level but,depending on the level of woman
I work with, this is where wecan go.
And now she's just thealchemist of pure sensation and

(17:37):
then her everything begins toopen up.
That's where it gets really fun.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
So you mentioned about sort of like calling in a
future self.
I think so what does the idealmodern woman look like?
You know, someone who does wanta successful career but then
may also want a family.
What are they embodying?
What practices are they doing?
What values do they hold?

Speaker 3 (18:01):
I love this question so much.
It reminds me of when HillaryClinton was running for
president and I rememberwatching her speaking of like
let's talk about, like theultimate embodiment the
president of the United Statesand I remember, without any
shade to Hillary herselfpersonally, I just thought, well
, this wouldn't necessarily bethat we had an embodied feminine
leader.
We would have a woman leader,but it's not that she's

(18:23):
necessarily embodied in herfeminine.
My experience at least, of herfrom afar is not a woman that is
operating in the connection tothe intelligence and wisdom of
her body, heart and mind.
My experience was there was alot of mental from Hillary.
So I'm just kind of giving thatmore gross example to suggest
that what I really am excited tosupport, I work with female

(18:46):
leaders.
I'm really excited to see morefemale leaders on the quote
front lines of whatever they'redoing, whether it's leaders of
their families and their homesor leaders at a large level like
Hillary Clinton, but beingwomen who are leading from a
place of deep, deep, deepembodiment and connection with
their bodies at all times.
So they're able to have aconversation and even now I can

(19:09):
drop into deeper myself.
It's like staying connected tomy breath inside of my
communication.
That's just one example, but Ithink, yeah, I'll just kind of
speak to that and say that I'mexcited to see more female
leaders who are deeply embodied,which means that they are
deeply connected to the seat ofthemselves within themselves.

(19:33):
You know, so many women lackthat we don't know where we are,
and so we get into big roomsand we get around people and we
get lost in the sauce.
As I say, we get lost in otherpeople's opinions and our
children's needs and otherpeople's needs, and meanwhile we
are so disconnected from ourtrue essence and we've lost
ourselves.
So I'm excited to see, butwe're brilliant, women are

(19:53):
freaking brilliant, and so Ireally think that, as women can
deepen in their ability to staypresent with themselves, inside
of themselves, we're going tosee a lot of radical, cool
leadership and collaborationwith men as well.
It's not just the future is notfemale, in my opinion, the
future is union and we're allyou know.

(20:13):
But the women get to do thiswork and so do men.
There's some stuff for men, I'msure, as well, but you know,
that's my thought on that.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah Well, you mentioned men there, and do you
think that one of the reasonsthat women feel the need to be
more masculine is becausethey've been let down by men?

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah for sure.
I mean, my gut response is likeyeah, on a subconscious level,
on an embodied level, I felt itin my body when you said that.
I felt you know, dad, let medown Dang.
I felt it in my body when yousaid that.
It's like I felt, you know, dad, let me down Dang, you know.
Okay, now I'm going to get tostep into what he was meant to
protect me, he was meant toprovide, and that's not here.

(20:53):
You know, there's so manydifferent.
Everyone has a unique story asto where and how they've been
let down from the masculine, butit would make sense that we
would internalize that and feellike we need to give it to
ourselves, you know, and so Ithink that speaks to what I find
to be one of the greaterepidemics we're facing in our
culture right now, which is just, you know, if we're talking
about men, I think men really,and women, but men specifically

(21:14):
are, they're not too feminine.
I don't think that there's alack of fathering.
There's not a.
They haven't been fathered andso they don't have a role model,
and so they don't have a rolemodel and so they can't give
from that place, and they'redoing their best to figure out
how to do this in this modernlife and how to be a man and how
to be a good man.
I also think our culture hasbecome really soft and I think
men really need an initiation ofsorts.

(21:36):
That's hard.
I used to have.
This is going to sound bad.
Okay, I don't even know if Iwant to share this, but I used
to say this I'm like bad.
Okay, I don't even know if Iwant to share this.
I used to say this I'm like Ithink this was what I was
speaking to the fact that whatI've now understood to be deeper
, which is, I think, in so manycultures.
I'll just let me start withthis In many countries Israel

(21:57):
being one men at 18 years old,they all go to the military.
I'd be interested to see thestatistics of what's happening
there within marriages andfamily.
I don't know, but I thinkthere's something to be said for
a man and his unique, typicallylike his unique that part of
him that needs something hard todo, to feel and you guys can
speak way more to this, but thisis what I felt.
So I used to have this thingthat I would say I'd be like.
I feel like a man.
This sounds so bad because Ilove men and this wasn't coming

(22:17):
from that.
I feel like every man needs toget punched in the face one time
in their life.
It in the face one time intheir life.
It was more speaking to thisnuance around like they need
life to fucking hit them andthey need to come back from it.
So all that to say, as theculture has gotten softer as
going to the military, ifsomething hard like that has
become less required or notrequired, I'm not saying I think

(22:40):
we should bring that back, butwhat I'm saying is I think that
provided for, yeah, maybegreater role models of like
masculine.
So I'd love to know yourthoughts on that, richard, as I
share that.
Yeah, well, I've got a lot.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Rather than the punch in the face.
What I'm thinking about isrugby.
You know, we played rugby inhigh school and I was actually
thinking about this yesterday,like so.
I was a good rugby player.
I was the captain of my teamwhen I was actually thinking
about this yesterday, like so.
I was a good rugby player.
I was the captain of my teamwhen I was like 13 and then we,
you know, I'd be better than theboys at my school and then we
would go and play a biggerschool and some of these boys

(23:15):
age 13 would have mustaches oversix foot and I would just get
absolutely crunched and it wasjust humiliating.
It was just like, oh my God, Ithought I was good at something,
but there are people out therewho are so far superior than me.
It just really was like whereis my place in the world?
And you know, yeah, I did gethurt.

(23:36):
You know I would have bruisesand things like that and
concussions and things like that, and I think bouncing back from
that was definitely just likegetting punched in the face
effectively, but kind of legally, in a kind of just way.
That's, I think, makes iteasier by, you know, a boy who's
four times your weight.
I think that's good for peopleand it's probably the same with
american football.
I know there are a lot ofpeople who think the risks that
way there were rewards withconcussion and things, but I

(23:58):
disagree on that.
The other thing I would say isum, I went to a private you know
privilege.
Excuse me, sorry, apologize forthat, but we had military
service as a part of that.
So for three years we were inthe cadet force.
Andy, did you have that as well?

Speaker 1 (24:12):
I did yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
So you're in the cadet force.
I was in the army in my schooland it was only one day a week
but it definitely did sort of dosomething to you.
It taught you about discipline.
It taught sort of do somethingto you.
It taught you about discipline.
It taught you about standardsand I hated it, but I think it
was useful.
I think that's a good part ofum, of the sort of the british
boarding school tradition.
Andy, do you want to addanything to?

Speaker 1 (24:32):
that I was just going to say, like I think, does that
?
Do we?
Are we just talking aboutphysically then?
Are we talking aboutmetaphorically, being punched?
So, like some people have arough times, but it's not
necessarily in the physicalsense.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Oh, of course.
Yeah, I do feel that toRichard's point, that there is
value in any kind of containeror dojo for a man and a woman.
But it's been valuable for mebecause it's helped me to what
do you call it?
Strengthen my masculinequalities.
Any dojo that requiresdiscipline, you know, and
requires overcoming somethingchallenging.

(25:04):
This forges our character andour strength of character, and I
think these are qualities thata good man I mean, for lack of a
better term really embody.
And what I'm suggesting, andy,is that I just feel like our
culture has softened in thoseareas and that men are not
having as many dojos that theycan.
Really you have to seek themout.
And then, in addition to that,the fathers are more absent, and

(25:29):
I wish I knew the statistics inthis moment, but fathers are
not in the household.
So now these men are beingreared without an example.
So, going back to Richard'spoint, it's like are women more
masculine because they've beenlet down by men?
And I would say, yes, it's likethat we're trying to find that
we need that scaffolding, weneed that, that fortifying, and
it's good for us to find itwithin ourselves.
But this, going back to thebeginning, it's like the speaker
is like about to bust on that,it's too loud.

(25:49):
You know the masculine function.
We've overcorrected in that wayI think as women.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, and I think a big problem is this sort of the
lack of place for men.
You know, it seems like men arejust not wanted and and that's,
I think, was a message offeminists.
So I had a feminist in my lifewhen I was growing up and and
she would tell me we don't needyou men, we're gonna get, uh,
cloning soon and the world isgonna be a better place when we

(26:14):
get rid of all men.
I was a very young child so Idid absorb that.
I was very impressionable.
But that's some of thefeminists out there.
They absolutely hate men and Idon't think it's a very good
thing.
I mean, you look at thestatistics on male suicide and
things like that and they aredepressing.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, I was just reading something about the male
statistic on suicide, richard,and it also was discovered that
in the suicide letters that werediscovered of these men who
have been killing themselveswere two words that were common
amongst the suicide letters thatwere discovered of these men
who have been killing themselveswere two words that were common
amongst the suicide letters,and the words were useless and
worthless.
And I just get chills justthinking about it.

(26:53):
It's like when men have that,their usefulness and their to be
needed taken away, their desireto really be here can be very
stripped, so much so, to thepoint of wanting to exit.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, we had an excellent guest on the podcast
called Ryan Park who was talkingto this point.
He was saying that hightestosterone in men is a good
predictor of good mental health,basically, and he said one of
the key drivers of hightestosterone is that sense of
purpose for men.
So, whatever you do, it mattersthe reverse.
You're saying people feltuseless or worthless.

(27:26):
I mean, that is literally theopposite.
So exactly, it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
The research bears that out yeah, yeah, so this
makes my work all the moreimportant?
I think, absolutely.
I was actually into.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
He mentioned, I think , that you, uh, he started
coaching in 2010, if I'm notmistaken.
That's right.
Could you talk a bit more aboutthat journey and how you've
come to specialize in feminineembodiment?

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, so gosh, yeah, I was not always like this.
You know, I was not always in aposition to be able to support
anyone in this way.
In fact, obviously, like anystory goes, I deeply required
the support myself.
And so in 2010, well, I shouldsay in 2008, I got married, and
I was 23 at the time and I hadsaved myself to have sex until I

(28:10):
was married, which is a reallypretty unique story for anybody
these days.
But the point of that is thatI'm now in this marriage,
thinking that we're going to behaving this great sex, and that
was definitely not the case, andin fact, it was almost
completely not there for us, andmy body began to really shut
down even more, you know, andthis was a product of, like,
religious conditioning and justsocietal conditioning, of why I

(28:32):
chose to do this.
But anyway, long story short,here I am at age 25.
I haven't had a period in twoyears, I'm not having sex in my
marriage and I feel really notwell.
And at the time, I was apersonal trainer.
You know, I'm 25.
So I'm a personal trainer inLos Angeles, california, but I'm
very, very successful as apersonal trainer, and so on the
outside it would have lookedlike I was fit, healthy and

(28:54):
doing well, but I would get homeand just draw my curtains and
be like I'm hoping for the nextday to come, you know, because
I'm just crippled with anxietyand my husband doesn't want to
have sex with me and my hair isfalling out, my period's gone
and my womanhood I have noconnection to.
And that's when I was workingas a personal trainer and my
clients wanted more support in amore holistic way.
I knew that they needed moresupport in their emotional

(29:17):
eating patterns and things likethis.
So I went to school to become ahealth coach at the time and it
was through that school that Ifound my teacher.
Her name was Jenna LaFlemme andshe came on stage at one of the
conferences for the school andshe said I'm Jenna LaFlemme.
She had 60 seconds to speak andshe said my name's Jenna
LaFlemme.
If you've been trying themasculine approach to weight
loss, I teach women the feminineapproach and I was like because

(29:40):
at the time also, I was tryingto lose all this weight,
thinking that if I were moreperfect and pretty, that my
husband wouldn't want to havesex with me.
So I just I followed her onTwitter in 2010.
I was like followed her onTwitter and I left the
conference actually and I knewshe was going to be my teacher
and studied with her for fouryears and really immersed myself
in what I discovered.
She was actually definitely nota weight loss coach.

(30:00):
She taught me Tantra and thefeminine arts, and so once I got
under her tutelage, I was likemy whole world was opened up to
how to get into this body, andso it was through her teachings
that I began to deepen my breathand move my energy from my head
to my body, that I began tolook in the mirror.
She had me looking in themirror and dancing and then

(30:21):
eventually taking my clothes offand doing the same thing, like
little things to move me towardsbeing here and now in this body
.
And so, yeah, that's kind ofbeen my journey, and so I
actually became an officialambassador of her work, started
to bring that to my clients andI mean there are more
certifications and things thathave happened, obviously, since
then, but that was really theimpetus that got me into my body

(30:44):
, and I remember in year two ofworking with her, I said to her
on the email I said, if I'mgoing to continue in this work.
I feel like I either continue inthis work or I stay in that
marriage.
Basically, I was outgrowing mymarriage, you know, and I wanted
my marriage to work andultimately she said, yeah, that
probably could happen, it's yourchoice.
I was like, well damn, andthere was no looking back for me

(31:05):
, but the feeling of lovingyourself and connecting with my
body, it liberated everything inme.
I used to struggle with severeanxiety and it was actually a
result of not being in my body,and this is what I see with so
many women.
They are crippled by anxietyand they think booze or naps or
sedatives or something, orsomething's deeply messed up

(31:26):
with them, and I always say Ithink it's a lack of breath.
You just need to breathe, andso that's where we start.
So, anyway, I hope thatanswered your question.
Thank you for the space Reallypowerful.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Thanks so much for sharing that yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
So why should a woman learn to connect the vulva to
the voice through the vagusnerve?

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yes, and can you explain a?

Speaker 1 (31:49):
little bit about what that means.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah, so about six years ago I was shown this body
of work that I wanted to create,called, and it was shown to me
to be called V, and I was likethat is interesting.
And then it was like, oh, vagusnerve, vulva and voice, and I
was like I don't know if I wantto come front facing with the
word vulva, like this is youknow, this is you know anyway.
So what ended up happening forme was I was really put through

(32:13):
the curriculum within myself,you know, for the past couple of
years of like what does thismean?
What is this?
So, to answer your question,this body of work it's kind of a
somatic sequencing and wesequence sound and movement and
breath to help a woman get intoliterally access, more
accessibility of awareness andconsciousness in her pelvic

(32:34):
floor, really, which also is inher vulva, her vagina, her
cervix, in addition to openingand relaxing our jaws, our
voices.
And this is done through ourreally using and utilizing the
brilliance of the vagus nerve,which is a nerve that is a
cranial nerve, the largest onethat runs from the brain
throughout the entire body,hitting all the organs.

(32:55):
So it's like a tuning fork forthe body.
So if we can really learn howto increase our vagal tone is
what it's called.
But if we can learn how toreally work with the vagus nerve
, we can really learn how toincrease our vagal tone is what
it's called.
But if we can learn how toreally work with the vagus nerve
, we can really begin todislodge places of long held and
chronic tension in the body andin that way we can begin to

(33:15):
embody, like, actually take upresidence in ourselves.
You know, it's like we got toclear the pathways.
I liken it to like a traffic.
You know a highway that's got alot of traffic.
It's like through sound, toneand breath we begin to clear the
pathways.
I liken it to like a trafficyou know a highway that's got a
lot of traffic.
It's like through sound, toneand breath we begin to clear the
traffic.
Clear the traffic, clear thetraffic so that eventually we as
women we can easily we havesuch a what I call lines of
liberation that anytime we needto now we can actually just take

(33:39):
one single breath and we'resuddenly through those lines of
liberation and that clearedtraffic.
We're in our yoni, we're in ourvulva, we're in our hearts,
we're in our voices, and so Ilike it.
It's like taking a pickaxe.
Sometimes it depends on howmuch.
And so you ask why is itimportant, richard?
I think it's important.
I'm going to speak to women,but I think the same can be true
for men.
But we, as women, we tend toclench in our hips, we clench in

(34:01):
our pussies, we clench in ourseats and we clench in our jaws.
These are the places that wehold, I believe, the most stress
and they're also the places ofour most aliveness.
And so why is it important?
Because this is where we hold alot of tension and stress and
shame.
And so I just like let's goright to it and bring sound,

(34:22):
bring your own voice, bringtoning by whatever means
necessary.
Let's use dramatic, you knowand I say dramatic, but Richard,
you can speak to this where youuse breath to go into specific
places and bring sound to helpkind of dispel some of the
numbness there.
Often for women is numbness.
Hopefully that answers it.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, often for women is numbness, hopefully that
answers it yeah, so you ceremonyin your work.
Why is ceremony important?

Speaker 3 (34:57):
You know, the way I would define ceremony is just
intention, really intention withritual, and I think my
experience it's bringing spiritinto what we're trying to do.
I've found, going back to whatAndy and I were talking, or we
were all talking about earlieris like I found that when we do
anything in a more intentionalway with ceremony and, for me at
least, with prayer, itexponentially creates
exponential results for myselfand for the client.
It makes it easier for me as apractitioner, which is great.

(35:19):
I'm not it's not me, you know,I'm not the healer.
I really believe I have studiedand have learned how to create a
space in which healing canoccur, and I believe that
there's one healer and that'sspirit.
And so for me and my style iscreating the space and setting
the ceremonial container forsafety to be felt and for love

(35:42):
to do what it does, which isheal.
Yeah, so it just as apractitioner, it makes it a lot
easier for me.
I used to be like exhaustedwith this kind of work and now
when, the more I bring prayerand ritual and ceremony into it,
the more I've found that thisis great.
And I also can't take creditfor most of the day either, you
know which is also really good'slike.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Next, you know this is for those people who are,
like sorry, less familiar withprayer, are we talking about a
sort of daily practice here, isit?
Or is it just the start of yourwork?
Or, and can you talk a bitabout how it might look?
Did you say prayer?
The prayer, yeah, for those,yeah kind of find that word
quite difficult and maybe hasreligious sort of throwbacks to

(36:25):
childhood and things.
What are we talking about there, I suppose?

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yeah, great question.
Yeah, the way I relate withthat I'm talking about, I'm
thinking about indigenouscultures, specifically let's
call it indigenous cultures tothe Americas, which is, I feel,
very drawn to and have studiedwith.
And these are the cultures thatthe wisdom that they hold is.
They work with spirit, you know, and they work with the

(36:49):
elements and they work withnature.
They invite spirit intoeverything, into everything that
they're doing, whether it'seating, whether it's farming,
harvesting, whatever they'redoing.
They're inviting, and we'll usethe word prayer, but they're
bringing in spirit to all of it.
And I think these are thepractices that we've become so

(37:11):
disconnected from.
Again, I'll speak to theAmericas, but because of
colonization and capitalism andthe industrial revolution, we've
been completely stripped of,and this is again and I don't
mean this but that kind ofmasculine kind of coming in,
build, build, build, build,build, losing the wisdoms of
nature and spirit.
And so, yeah, my thought withthat is, even though we're

(37:32):
setting out with the work that Ido with women, we're setting
out for a specific goal, but Iwould be amiss not to invite in
spirit.
And it's not God, it's notreligious, it's not associated
with any particular religion,it's just the acknowledgement
that we have a lot more going onhere than what we can see, and
I just hold that peace and thisis wisdom that comes again from

(37:52):
indigenous communities that Ibelieve is really wanting to be
resurrected now so that we canhave a hope of actually moving
forward in a sustainable way.
So I just try to bring that tomy practice.
What do you think, richard um,about the use of spirit in, in

(38:14):
prayer, in prayer.
What do I think about prayer?
Yeah, well, breath, breath isspirit.
That's actually the yeah, yeah,yeah, bringing spirit in.
Yes, sorry, sorry to interruptno, that's right.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
What do I think about prayer?
Yeah, yeah, I pray.
I pray almost every night.
I don't know who I'm praying to, but it feels good to do it.
There's a lot of benefits toprayer.
You know, they've takenpeople's blood and shown that
when people pray they can boosttheir.
I think it's like maybeinterleukin-6.
It's some marker of immunity.
Prayer can boost immunity.

(38:42):
It definitely has effects andit can improve things like
putting.
You know, people have luckycharms and they gave people a
lucky charm and when people hadtheir lucky charm they improved
their putting in golf.
So definitely there issomething to believing in a
higher power.
It helps people in some way.

(39:03):
Whether or not there is ahigher power or not, I don't
know.
Those studies don't prove theevidence of higher power.
They just prove the beliefhelps people in some way.
So I pray because I know it'sgoing to benefit me.
I hope there's a higher powerout there, but if there's not
one, I wouldn't be surprised.
That's, that's how, where?
I would stand on that amazingyeah so somatic and integrative

(39:29):
coaching, that's something youpractice.
What is that?

Speaker 3 (39:33):
yeah, I think the somatic piece is, you know, what
Peter Levine refers to in hisbody of work called somatic
experiencing, which I think isone of the best gold standards
of this kind of work, which is abottom up approach, to quote
therapy, you know versus a topdown.
So bottom up, meaning you knowthe way I am gifted and it just

(39:54):
has always been a natural gift,but now I've like really refined
it and studied in it, which isthe ability to feel into the
body, where something's livingand bring, noticing to what
you're feeling in your body andletting that be the access point
to where we start theconversation, as opposed to
let's continue to talk about thestory of what's happening in
your life.
It's like where is it felt inthe body?
I find it to be a really I'malways about like what's the

(40:17):
most efficient path and it'sbeen really exciting to find
somatic therapy as a way ofreally supporting someone and
creating massive progress intheir life.
Somatic, again, meaning of thebody and really working with
what you're feeling in the bodyand amplifying those feelings so
that we can make some progress.
And then the integrative pieces.
I think that's my way of sayingyou know, by whatever means

(40:38):
necessary approach, you know,using from all the tools that
I've studied in.
So you know breath, soundmovement, touch, gosh, chronic
energy healing we can go intoall kinds of the different
modalities, but it's really justlike what would be the most use
for this person in this moment.
So it's really fun because youget to create like a creative,
customized approach in everymoment.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
So you wanted to talk about the problems in the
coaching industry and one of thecriticisms of sort of modern
day American, western, europeanspirituality, this sort of pick
and mix spirituality you knowwe've got a bit of Buddhism,
we've got a bit of Hinduism,we've got a bit of like earth
based spirituality is thatwithout like the container you

(41:21):
know, like of's, say, you'rejust doing Christianity things
get abused and mistreated.
So, for example, spiritualityyou talked about being in your
feminine.
You see examples of peoplebeing like oh, I didn't want to
go to work today because thatputs me in my masculine, I
didn't want to take the trashout, because it puts me in my
masculine.
And when we have capitalismmixed in with spirituality,

(41:43):
narcissism comes into play.
You know people on instagramare putting up like very sexy,
provocative, suggestive photosof themselves, but they're like
in prayer and there's no one totell them.
You don't wear sexy outfits tofish, okay, but what do you
think about those criticisms?

Speaker 3 (42:02):
oh man, what do I think about?
I'm sorry, I'm so into whatyou're sharing and just
imagining this actual photo ofthis that I lost.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I lost the storyline here, about which criticisms the
criticisms that you can't havea pick and mix spirituality.
You have to have one tradition,because within that one
tradition there are checks andbalances.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Wow wow, brilliant.
Okay, andy, what do you thinkwhile I do, you have thoughts on
this?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
well I I personally quite like the multi-faceted
approach of like drawing fromdifferent kinds of wisdom.
I don't think I can reallyspeak to the instagram.
I'm not really in the instagramscene.
I imagine lots of people arekind of perhaps misguided and
the and obviously it's veryfamous.
You have a picture and then youput across it and that could be

(42:55):
quite cringe.
But in terms of someone who'skind of not particularly
affiliated to a religion, I findit really helpful to have a
wisdom from lots of differentwalks of life.
But I can see okay, it's a bitmessed up with the new new wave
of um influences and peopleperhaps in it for the wrong
intentions.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yes, thank you.
That helped open up something Iwas like I don't know what I
think I'll miss.
Here's what I can say.
I think it's always best tospeak from personal experience.
So for me, I came from aChristian upbringing and I'll
say this I never got too boggeddown by it.
What I loved about the religionthat I was born into was the
spirit that I really felt.
I really enjoyed that, but,point being, the dogma had to go

(43:35):
.
So I got into the new age worldaround 2012.
And the point is is that what Ithink is?
What I feel is a really acautionary tale right now is
just this looking to the new agespirituality and looking to
stones and it feels like it'screating a lot more confusion
than it's actually doing anygood.

(43:56):
And it felt to me, being insideof the spiritual new age
community, this feels a lot likewhat was bad about Christianity
.
It's like dogma, like if I'mgoing to actually get what I
want, I need to make sure Imanifest and do affirmations,
and then I have to have thiscrystal, and then I have to put
it out on the full moon and now,all of a sudden, most of my
energy is swirled up in allthese things that I need to do

(44:18):
to hopefully not be feeling socrappy about how I feel.
And why do I feel crappy abouthow I feel?
Because I feel on a deep levelthat I am completely separate
from God.
I'm completely separate fromlife, and it's that feeling of
separation that was handed to usthrough stories like Adam and
Eve and sin that has us sick.
It has us sick and desperatelylooking for something to cure

(44:41):
that ailment.
And ultimately, no crystal andno time in a monastery or
anything can solve this deeptime in a monastery or anything
is it can solve this deep, deep,deep, deep illusion that we are
separate not only from life andseparate from God and separate
from love, but we're separatefrom each other.
So I think, going back to likereally so anyway, I just think

(45:02):
it's sad to see all thedifferent ways in which we're
trying to just arrive at we'reokay, we're okay, I'm okay, you
know, putting your hand on yourheart, breathing, you're like
I'm okay, I'm okay.
Putting your hand on your heart, breathing, you're like I'm
okay, I am connected, I'vealways been connected.
I've never been separate, I'venever been bad.
I've never been wrong.
I'm not wrong.
It's a lie that I have beenwrong.
And then, from that place, whatdo you feel inspired to do?

(45:25):
Maybe you do really likecrystals, okay, but maybe you
don't.
Maybe you're like actually I'mgood, I think I'm just gonna
make some really beautiful foodwith my family and just enjoy
this life that I've been givenand chill the fuck out.
So hopefully that answers yourquestion.
It's been really hard, andespecially to see women in this

(45:46):
way.
We feel so much of our culturalprogramming has told us that
we're bad and our bodies are badand our sex is bad and being
sexual is bad.
So an effort to to counter thatwe've become hyper sexualized
and we're really what we'retrying to do is reclaim the
sacredness of our eroticism.
And so you know forever thatwoman in a sexy outfit at church

(46:10):
.
I think what she's reallytrying to say is I'm holy and
this is holy and it's all holy,but it's distorted because we
live in a distorted society,because we believe that we're
separate from love.
And so what do we do to returnto our wholeness?
Well, I mean, in my perspectiveand Richard's, you know, we do,
we breathe, we breathe and wedo the work of restoring the

(46:32):
truth of who we are, which isinnocent period done.
That's what I believe and thatmight be ignorant, given what
we're seeing on the world atlarge right now and just all the
not so innocent seeming peopleand doing stuff.
But I really believe thatunderlying all that is a belief
that we're separate from eachother, and that's the distortion
and the craziness that we'reseeing right now.
So I'll just kind of pausethere.

(46:53):
Thanks for the question.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Okay, then an easier one then.
What are the problems with thelife coaching industry that you?

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Well, I mean, I think on a high level, and you'll
agree with this probably isthere's zero regulations and
zero, no one.
There's no overarchinginstitution or organization that
says this is approved, you know, whereas with you know more
traditional, what do they callthem?
Trades like being a lawyer orbeing a doctor.
These are ones that have prettyhigh standards and like

(47:23):
understanding of like what isrequired, and very similar to a
doctor.
I think coaches have theability to heal or really fuck
somebody up, you know.
So it's sad to see the industryit's hard to see and it is what
it is but it's hard to see anindustry with zero regulations,
because I believe coaches haveas much possibility of again
fucking up someone as a surgeon.
This is just psychologicalfuckery, let's just say it, you

(47:46):
know, and leaving them best, youknow, dependent on them as a
coach and, at worst, reallyreally further from themselves
than when they started.
That's what I would say.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, it's a theme that come up quite a few times,
to be honest the lack ofregulation.
I think it's also really youtouched on a bit there, but
people are looking for coachingbecause they're searching for
something and it's so it'salmost like quite vulnerable
people and yeah, I think that'skind of the.
If you like, the makes it a bitsicker is that people are kind
of capitalizing on thevulnerable.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Exactly, exactly, and then you've got it.
Well, it's exactly that.
And then that speaks to whatI'm noticing in the coaching
industry, and I can speak tothis for myself.
The really good, embodied,integrous practitioners
typically are not greatmarketers.
They're not really good at thatand the really kind of maybe

(48:40):
they're kind of embodied intheir practice but they just
like they went to one ayahuascaceremony and they had you know
one, whatever, and now they're,but they're freaking great
marketers.
Now they've got down.
They're selling 250 K programsa year and like now we'veK
programs a year and now we'vegot an issue here and now we've
got what do we have?
I don't know.
And am I suggesting that thereneeds to be regulation on it?
That might come with some netnegative benefits as well.

(49:02):
I'm not sure, but it is good tobe sober about what's happening
, and so that's the piece that Ifind.
So, yeah, I think that what I'dlove to see more of, that I
think, can help auto-correct.
This is people who really arewalking in integrity with who
they are on this earth, walkingwith the earth, walking with
themselves, who have greatteachers and are deeply studied

(49:24):
with these teachers that theylearn how to market.
Maybe that's a way ofredistributing some of this and
actually helping them.
That's one way I could see ofthis going a little better.
But I think it's excitingbecause I think we're also
customers and consumers aregetting a little bit more savvy
and smart.
So they're starting to see justlike we're starting to see in

(49:44):
our governments just thepuppeteer show happening.
I think that's happening as wellon some level on Instagram and
social media show happening.
I think that's happening aswell on some level on Instagram
and social media.
So it's interesting.
I've got my popcorn out in avery spectator, judgmental type
way right now watching what'shappening.
But I'm also deeply committedto stepping in the game at this
point and being like all right,let me market myself, not

(50:05):
because I really want to, butbecause I want to see a more
whole world and trust myself atthis point to to stay connected
to my practices and be a goodpractitioner.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
So that's my thoughts on that yeah, I think you've
said a lot of good things there.
And to add to that and pick upon some of those themes of like
innocence and the absence ofreligion, life coaches have sort
of stepped in for priests insome regard.
I mean, that is what you gettaught in my psychotherapy
training at university.

(50:38):
They're like this is theprogression of psychotherapy.
You know used to be sort oftribal leaders, there would be
the spiritual leader.
Then we had religion, we hadpriests, and now therapists are
effectively doing the role ofconfession that priests would do
.
So there is that kind of sacredspiritual aspect to the life
coach that maybe they don'tthink about that when they're

(51:00):
coaching a boss babe to 10 timesher salary.
But going back to thatinnocence and how do we change
this, so something happened lastweek where a breath worker was
advertising a breathworktraining and he was kind of
undercutting everyone else inthe industry and he was using

(51:20):
trauma porn.
So trauma porn is, um, it's not,it's not like porn where people
get beaten up, it's um, it'speople like cathartic at
leastartic during breathwork.
So people crying and convulsingduring breathwork and use that
on his Instagram and a lot of itall kicked off in the
breathwork industry.
I posted a video on it andNatalia posted a video on it.
But one of the things I wasthinking about is this guy.

(51:43):
I think he's probably quitewell intentioned.
He probably is just a littlebit innocent and naive and no
one's told him that postingtrauma porn is inappropriate and
and misleading, and I find itvery easy to just go oh, look at
this guy doing breathwork withhis shirt off, or this woman
doing breathwork, teaching it ina bikini, or this, you know,
inappropriate use of sexualityto promote breathwork makes me

(52:06):
angry.
But actually I've probably donemany, many I've definitely done
many inappropriate things in my, uh, my career not, like you
know, illegal things, but justthings that probably, like night
doing stuff with my shirt off.
That's, you know, is notappropriate and I think to
correct or up level the breathwork in the life coaching

(52:27):
industry, a bit of compassionand understanding for people is
going to go a long way.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
That was very unexpected from you, richard,
and I appreciate it, and I don'tmean that in a I'm not a
compassionate person and I'm notan arsehole.
Well, you tend to hold adifferent lens, a lens of like
no, this needs to be broughtinto integrity no matter what.
And it's really beautiful tohear you say you know, actually
there could be a dose ofcompassion, could actually
support this whole thing andmoving forward more effectively.

(52:52):
I love that, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
He's much softer than his tough, rugged exterior
portrays.
He's got a soft underbelly,this old wretch he hides it
really well.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Well, it's actually, it's nice, but it's also
intelligent Compassion, andoffering compassion to any
situation is actually the besthope we have of it moving
forward.
So, yeah, and I, I tend to dothat as well, but no, I really
appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Inside this conversation, yeah, we're
bringing in some sort of stockquestions for our guests, so
here's one we'll throw at you.
What makes you laugh about yourindustry?

Speaker 3 (53:33):
What makes me laugh about my industry?
Oh my gosh.
I don't know if this is theanswer, but honestly I still.
This may not sound good, but,like I feel embarrassed to say
I'm a coach.
You know, maybe due to thisentire conversation, I've tried
to work around it.
I'm like, no, I'm a guide.
Definitely don't feel called tocall myself a healer.
I think that's just not a landI want to go into.

(53:54):
But I'm like I'm a guide, thetitle coach, you know.
If we think about it, it's likewhat is this?
Are we on a basketball court?
What are we doing?
You know, I don't know.
It's like a life coach, justlike.

(54:14):
This is great.
Now, sorry, give me one moreminute, because I really would
like to talk about this.
It's yeah, how and whyeverything in our industry needs
to be so big.
It's like now we're saving theworld.
That makes me laugh.
We're change the world, therhetoric of change the world.
I'm like the world is changingalways.
What do you mean?
It's just the lack of likeintelligence around rhetoric.

(54:36):
I don't want to sayintelligence, the lack of
intention around rhetoric.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
It seems a little bit like it's a lack of humility as
well in some respects, like youknow.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Yeah, it's cute, it is actually funny.
It's like, oh, you know, ouregos, there's a lot of ego in it
, you know and I got back toRichard's point I can see it in
myself and I still get to checkall that part of myself, you
know.
And what I think is beautifulabout it is mostly people who
become coaches, is it'sbeautiful?
They have that warriorarchetype, that kind of

(55:06):
galvanizer, savior archetype.
They are the visionaries thathelp, want to drive us into a
better future.
But I think it'd be better tojust, you know, be like I'm
changing the world and you know,now, the thing that really
brings me peace, I'm gonna haveto scale it.
The scaling, you know,everything needs to get scaled.
It's like, wow, we're obsessedwith scaling in this industry.
You know, these are things thatyou know.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
I chew on all of that , yeah, you know, let's see
capitalism for you.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Okay, our next stop question is maybe it's similar.
Uh, what makes you wince inpain about your industry?
What makes you do that?

Speaker 1 (55:45):
that face again for rich people posting prayerful
things in their bikinis.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
In their bikinis.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
That's what makes them read so many things.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Honestly it is what you were just talking about,
Richard it's the videos of theseclips from hyper-dramatic
experiences without any context,and it's like, oh, can you
please not show that, becauseactually the work that we're
doing is really meaningful andcan be supportive.
Yet when you show a clip ofsomeone having this massive

(56:18):
cathartic experience orsomething that looks like an
exorcism, without context andall that, now people are going
to come to this work and eitherexpect something to look like
that and if it doesn't look likethat, they don't think they got
what they needed, you know,from it or they're broken
because they didn't have acathartic experience.
I looked like you know thedemon was getting released from
them, or they don't want to cometo it.
You know they don't want tocome to this what otherwise

(56:39):
could be a really, reallymeaningful community building
experience for them.
So that makes me ick and I'mlike, yeah, let's not post
things that don't have contextand people.
It might scare them off.
Definitely.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
That's my thought on that so how do people find you?
Sorry, we probably should havecovered this off earlier.
People listening, you want tofind you online, or yeah, yeah,
everything.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
You can find me everywhere with my mc charette.
My last name is s-h-u-r-e-t-tand that's on instagram.
That's mccharettecom.
That'll find you towards mesomehow.
Those are the two primary ways,and then mc at mccharettecom is
my email, you know.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
So just get down with the mc, you'll find me yeah I
did wonder whether there was adouble meaning to it.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah, he also.
It also works for a very coolbrand called Qualia.
We were going to ask her somequestions about that, but she's
going to put us in touch withsomeone from Qualia, so this is
going live in the podcast, soshe has to do it now.
We've made it awkward in thatregard.
No, I think we're hoping to getsomeone from Qualia to come and

(57:45):
talk to us about that as well.
So that's very cool.
We won't talk about that nowbecause, um, I think we've
covered some pretty interestingthings.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
So thank you, mc thank you so much for your time.
Yeah, it's inspiring to seethat you've taken um some of
your toughest times and turnedit into um very, very meaningful
work.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
So thank you so much.
Y'all thank you for the.
Y'all are wonderful, generoushosts, so I really appreciate
the space to be able to sharethis stuff.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Thank you so much welcome back listener.
We hope you enjoyed thatepisode with mc shura andy.
I enjoyed it.
I know you enjoyed it, but canyou just say whether or not you
enjoyed it?

Speaker 1 (58:24):
it was brilliant.
I honestly thought it wasabsolutely fantastic.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Yeah, what a nice person yes, she's very lovely,
very sweet and, um, yeah, Ithink hopefully people learned
something new there.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
There's some new takes, there's some hard-hitting
questions and hopefully peopleare walking away with some new
knowledge I said at the end ofthe episode she loved that she
sort of like harnessed what wassome obviously pretty
challenging times for her andmoved it into such a positive
force, um for good.
So yeah, good on her andhopefully we can all um meet in

(58:58):
austin yeah, hopefully, yeah,she'll.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
She'll be able to the health optimization summit,
like we will next april, andwe're gonna do what we said we
would do, which is read out someof our reviews, because we've
been asking for, for reviews andwe've got nine now which uh,
I'm, I'm quite happy with Ithink more actually, but we've
got nine on apple nine on appleand a lot on spotify.
So yeah, um, we got a nicereview from jd1546422, um, I

(59:28):
think, I think it's nice let mejust uh, andy, you're gonna read
it, okay yeah, I'm gonna readit, um, because I think it's
pretty accurate.
I think, yes, the title is arare plus unique insight into
wellness and this book iswritten.
Thank you, jd.
I've I've learned so muchlistening to this podcast.
Richard and andy are an epicduo.

(59:48):
Does anyone on this planet knowmore about all aspects of
health than Richard?
I doubt it, oh no.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
JD man, All women.
What have you said there?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
don't think we know JD, but I didn't pay for this
review, that is, it doesn'tsound like I did.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
It's ruined the whole episode for me.
Oh gosh, no Well, gosh, um, nowell.
I didn't know where JD wasgoing with that Cause.
I was thinking I don't know alot about wellness, but to to
narrow in on you and feed yourego like that is almost
unforgivable.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Please don't listen to any more JD.
This ego is like the cookiemonster it just can't oh we had
to read out jd's why.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
All right, next next episode, I'm going to read out
one, maybe one that I've written.
You're gonna write yourself somuch more about wellness than
richard, why no, it'll be morelike it'll be more like richard
thinks he knows loads aboutwellness, but it's a
disappointing knowledge gapthere and it'll just be ae151 or
whatever.
No thanks for the review, jd.
That's very sweet and I'm surerichard will probably frame it

(01:00:57):
and put it above his bed.
So well done, yeah yeah, indeed, well listener.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Um, we do appreciate the reviews.
If you leave a review, we mayread it out.
So please do leave thosereviews and share with your
friends where do they find us?
Rich, laughing through the pain, navigating wellness on all
good podcast hosting platformsand at andy sam on instagram and

(01:01:23):
at the breath geek on instagramfor me and the breath geekcom
and richardlblakecom and Andyhas anything else?

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
LinkedIn profile is that coming up Every time I log
into LinkedIn I get more andmore cross.
It's basically just a formatfor brown nosing and boasting.
I don't like it, but if it willforward our cause, then maybe
I'll suck it up and do one?

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Yeah, maybe.
Well, I guess that's kind ofall.
Is that not all instagram andsocial media?
is brown yeah kind of and but Iguess it's specifically career
brown those yeah, it's all a bit.
Yeah well, at least it's kindof, it's not, it hasn't got like
a kind of thin veil.
You know, sometimes people dothat sort of like instagram
thing of like boasting like thehashtag, humble brag type yeah,

(01:02:14):
like you're bragging, but you'retrying to make it normal,
whereas in linkedin it's justlike it's okay to brag on
linkedin, because that'sbasically what.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
That's what it is yeah, okay.
Well, if jd promises not toleave any more reviews, I'll
start linkedin page.
Uh, thanks for listeningeveryone.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I'm gonna I'm gonna slip in that tenor, I promise
grin all right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Thanks for listening till next time.