Join us as Dr. Torkil Færø, a trailblazer in the world of holistic health and author of "The Pulse Cure," challenges everything you thought you knew about sun exposure, stress, and well-being. By questioning conventional wisdom, Dr. Torkil aligns with the biohacker movement and introduces us to the transformative power of pilgrimages for mental and physical health. Through his personal stories and experiences, Dr. Torkil offers a fresh perspective on diet, fasting, and the revolutionary role of wearables in modern health management.
Explore the profound insights into heart rate variability (HRV) and its critical role in understanding our stress responses. Discover how HRV serves as a window into our autonomic nervous system, revealing how lifestyle choices like diet, alcohol consumption, and even social interactions impact our well-being. With fascinating revelations about the benefits of pushing personal limits and the surprising comfort of social interactions, we delve into how tracking HRV can be a proactive tool for early disease detection and lifestyle optimization.
We also dive into the complexities of sun exposure and modern lifestyle choices, drawing on a UK biobank study to challenge the fear of melanoma from sun exposure. Dr. Torkil illuminates the benefits of sunlight beyond vitamin D, while questioning the safety of conventional sunscreens. As we navigate the evolving landscape of wellness, the conversation shifts towards the future of personalized health, where technology and AI empower us to shift from illness treatment to prevention. Join us for a thought-provoking journey into the future of health and well-being, where the power to optimize our health is at our fingertips.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, listener, you are not going to believe what
this insider has to reveal aboutthe medical system around the
world, isn't that right, andy?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, he wasn't exactly a supporter of my
sunscreen usage, to say theleast.
I think his views on the sunand sun exposure were
particularly against the grainof what you might expect for a
doctor.
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
it is, although I I I'm gonna take credit for this
one, andy, I have been bangingthe drum on the anti-sunscreen
um myth, we'll call it so we,yeah, so we should say dr torkel
.
Dr torkel farrow is our guesttoday.
He is the author of the pulsecure, a runaway hit book in
(00:49):
norway and and around the world,and he's a medical doctor and
he shares some of the thingsthat you will not hear on
regular, uh, regular tvmainstream advice.
He really does support the sortof biohacker movement that a
lot of uh, a lot of our guestshave been championing and, uh,
(01:10):
yeah, we get into all sorts ofthings that I think you are
gonna love listener.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, when was the last time your doctor prescribed
a pilgrimage, for example?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
yes, probably a thousand years ago maybe
possibly yeah, two thousandyears ago.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Maybe Possibly yeah, Two thousand years ago.
Likely none of our listenersthen?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, probably not, unless they're real biohackers
and they've been living for athousand years.
But yeah, what else do we getinto, Andy?
What else?
Yeah, I think the dietary stuffwas very interesting, the
(01:58):
fasting or fasting, mimickingdiets, calorie intake, the type
of food he has when he has it.
I thought was really reallyinteresting to hear as well.
So we talk about what is thebest device to track how you can
use metrics like your heartrate variability to predict
disease, catch disease early, aswell as optimizing your health
to get the most out of yourfitness and your social
(02:18):
situations things that you maynot associate with health.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, and I think the increase in wearing, um you
know, variable wearables is, is,is, uh, is noticeable, but
actually do you know what thatis telling you?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
absolutely all right.
Well, enjoy, listener.
This is going to be a greatepisode with a really top, top
class guest, a very wellcredentialed, a proper, proper
medical doctor with all sorts ofexperience and a really nice
holistic view.
So here we go.
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Speaker 2 (04:36):
Welcome to the show now.
You've traveled over 80countries and you've spoken
about the importance ofpilgrimage.
Can you share why you believepilgrimage is so important for
both mental and physical health?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, pilgrimage is probably my favorite way of
traveling.
Actually.
You come into a town on foot,you spend time the day out in
nature, you spend the time alone.
Often, even if you're walkingwith your family or a friend,
you will walk naturally part ofit alone in your own thoughts.
(05:09):
When you're walking in therhythm of your gait, then I find
that my thoughts will flow morenaturally and I will, you know,
just be in a kind of creativemode, getting the distance from
my normal life and kind of thinkvery differently.
(05:29):
And I've done the pilgrimage tosantiago de compostela twice and
there's also one in norway.
I walked with a friend we madedocumentaries from both of these
trips and I walked with myfamily to rome and even also in
Palestine.
I walked for two weeks with myfamily from Nazareth to
(05:50):
Bethlehem, and I'm not aChristian, so I do it maybe more
for kind of spiritual reasonsin general.
So I just find that it's and youwill meet people that are out
with the same aim.
So I find so many interestingpeople there and it's such a
(06:11):
good way when you want to changeyour life, to have this huge
gap, that I think you need towalk for maybe a month or maybe
even more, because the mostimportant thing is the time in
the middle there, when it's sucha long time you know a week or
10 days since you started thetrip and the end of it is still
(06:32):
far away and then I find thosetwo weeks there in the middle is
essential.
So many people ask me you know,can I do it?
You know 10 days and then 10days and so on and split it up,
but okay, if you don't have anyother choice, you could do that,
but I would mainly go for avery long walk, you know.
So that is some of my mythoughts about it I remember I
(06:54):
went to do.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
You know rupert sheldrake.
He's a sort of oxford biologistand he also talks about other
things like, um, well, thescience delusion is his big book
.
But he did a big book on thesort of the common commonalities
between all religions and oneof them was pilgrimage.
Pretty much every religionrecommends or prescribes
pilgrimage and yeah, there's alot of science behind that.
(07:16):
But I like how you said thereuh, if you want to change your
life, what do you think it isabout pilgrimages that helps
people change their lives?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I would say everything you know, because
your physiology is probably atthe top.
You know so, and probably thepilgrimage is from ancient times
that after you had been on sucha trip you would come home
invigorated and you would feelmore energy and you will feel
healthier and your mitochondriaare better, your brain works
(07:48):
better.
So this is probably some of thereasons why pilgrimages are so
nice, and it's also a spiritualjourney particularly the one in
Spain, I would think, becauseit's such a tradition also.
So you're kind of walking inthe footsteps of others.
You can feel this energy fromall the others that have been
walking there for like athousand years.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So I think there's this spiritual connection also
can you give us a little bit ofa clue as to what the insights
you get in the middle of thatjourney, then?
Is it just that you're so farfrom the beginning and so far
from the end?
That is, that's the feelingitself.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, so you're already into this rhythm.
You are rid of the worst painfrom walking and you have kind
of got it into the rhythm andyou can kind of it's like going
up in a hot air balloon andseeing your life from a distance
(08:45):
, kind of free from expectationsthat are used to back home and
the obligations that you oftenhave.
So, of course, on my trips wewere working, we were doing
interviews with people, askingthem why they did it.
So that was an added thing forme to get the insight into all
(09:07):
the other.
You know, we interviewedprobably two pilgrims pilgrims
every day, you know and got theinsight into why they did it.
And we actually made that.
After the films that we made,you know, we doubled the amount
of pilgrims pilgrims from norwayto santiago and also kind of
opened up the Norwegian one aswell, that we found that we
(09:27):
actually have a pilgrimage atour doorsteps that used to be
quite huge in the Middle Agesand then disappeared, you know,
with the Protestantism and allof this around the 15th century.
So it's been nice to have apart in that.
So before I wrote the pulsecure that these films that we
(09:47):
made was kind of my contributionto the public health, you know,
to keep people healthy in thatway yeah, I think walking is
such a key part of it.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Obviously people just think our walking just gets you
from a to b.
But there's the psychotherapyDReye movement, reprocessing and
depersonalization.
And that was developed here inthe hills of California where
this therapist, francine Shapiro, just noticed when people are
walking they have these lateraleye movements because they're
(10:18):
looking at the ground, lookingwhere to place their feet, and
she found that her clients weremore able to process, process
difficult emotions and then sheinvented this emdr.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
So I wonder if there's a kind of emdr
pilgrimage is probably, and onceyou scan your surroundings like
that is also healthy.
So everything we do that isreminiscent of the way we used
to live in the ancient times,that is, is good for us for some
reason, and probably the thingthat you can scan your horizon
(10:47):
and that you have the peripheralvision all over is probably
also very healthy.
Of course also you're outside inthe sun, and that is super
important.
We see more and more researchfrom the UK also and from the
Biobank study, that the sunshineis really important for us, and
particularly the infrared.
(11:08):
Half of the sunshine energy isfrom the infrared specter and
when you're walking out in theforest and the woods, the
infrared will be reflected fromthe trees towards you, you know.
So it you kind of get a fulldose on everything you can think
of.
You know you will get vitalizedon such a trip.
(11:29):
Also, you have thephytochemicals from the trees
that we inhale and that workstogether with our immune defense
, immune system, and soeverything strengthens us.
So it's no wonder that thepeople came back from a
pilgrimage looking healthier and, of course, and inspired other
people to do the same.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So yeah, there's obviously a lot of physical
benefits and also that themental stuff.
I think, like you said, thatchange is so difficult to get
someone to change when someone'sstuck in a rut, whatever it is.
You know they're obese and theywant to stop their eating, but
they can't.
Or they're smoking and theywant to stop smoking.
(12:10):
The psychology of change issuch um, you can go so deep into
it and so many people have somany different pathways to it.
Pilgrimage, I guess, is one,breath work would be another one
, therapy would be another one.
But yeah, I still don't feellike anyone's really cracked it.
Anyone's like anyone can saythis is how you make someone
(12:32):
change.
But we have to go through thesereally elaborate processes like
ayahuasca ceremonies or monthlong pilgrimages just to get our
us to change our minds, get ourus to change our minds.
But moving on to your book, thepulse cure so we talked earlier
.
We've all got aura rings onhere and I'm sure most of our
(12:52):
listeners know what hrv is.
But could you just start us offwith some of the basics of the
pulse cure, why it's importantto track our pulse and what hrv
is?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
yeah, so hrv heart rate variability is the
variation between heartbeats andit's quite beautiful, almost
touching.
For a doctor.
You know that what we can readout of our heartbeats compared
to our breath, that is what cantell us so much about the
physiology, the stress balancein our systems.
And the reason for that is thatif we are in the
(13:26):
parasympathetic mode of theautonomic nervous system, the
restful mode, the recovery mode,then when we breathe in, the
heart rate goes up a little bitbecause there's more oxygen in
the lungs and the heart kind ofpushes through a bit faster.
And then when we breathe outand there's less oxygen in the
lungs, the heart will relax alittle bit, measured in
milliseconds, and we can seethat difference with our
(13:49):
wearables.
But if you are in the stressmode, then the heart will beat
like a metronome, very steadily,like a clock, and the wearables
will detect this differencefrom the deep restful state and
until the very, very stressfulstate in the moment and also
accumulated throughout the dayand night.
(14:09):
And we'll, you know, throughartificial intelligence, through
the millions of people usingthese devices now, they will
give you an estimate of if yourstress balance is sustainable or
not, or if you will, becausearound 80% of the diseases that
we treat as doctors these dayshave a root cause in too much
(14:34):
stress.
That will lead to a chroniclow-grade inflammation.
And the stress will come frommany sources, not just mental
stress that we would think of asstress, you know, in everyday
language.
But once you start tracking it,as you probably surely have
seen, the diet will affect it,your physical fitness will
affect it, alcohol and so manythings.
(14:57):
Altitude if you go up to themountains, you know it will
affect the heart ratevariability.
So it's kind of a lot of thedetective work to do, because
the heart will respond to anydemand and it will also respond
to any de-stressing activitythat you would do, like breath
work or cold plunges ormeditation or what have you.
(15:18):
And so the heart is kind of thecontrol center, taking in
information and also givinginformation for us to be able to
have this window into ourphysiology that is so super
important.
And because we don't reallyhave this sense throughout
history we never needed thissense for our own state.
(15:40):
That wasn't the trouble state.
That wasn't the trouble.
You know.
Our threats came from theoutside, from animals, from
enemies, from, you know,poisoned, contaminated food and
such things.
But it's only in the lastdecades, or last, you know, 40,
50 years, that our inner state,our inner stress, is what's
(16:02):
threatening our health andlongevity.
So that is why this is kind ofa substitute for the senses that
we never needed to develop inhistory.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
What might we be doing to stress our bodies that
we might not even be aware of?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
The things that I was not aware of.
That was the stress of alcohol.
I thought that alcohol would bea good way to wind down and be
calm, to sleep well, and ofcourse anybody with an aura ring
can tell you that is really nottrue.
I would never have imaginedthat food could stress, that
something that I was eatingwould result in a difference in
(16:38):
my heart rate.
I would not imagine thatfasting would be so effective to
stay in the recovery mode.
And also the cold.
You know the temperature, thatthe body is so responsive to
temperature, both in heat and incold, that we can kind of hack
our systems and also becomestronger, more resilient through
(17:02):
exposing ourselves totemperature changes.
You know so we're.
If you're too comfortable, wehave this comfort crisis.
You know so if you're toocomfortable and not pushing
ourselves, we just become weakerand less resilient and well
will not tolerate as much loadson our systems yeah, the comfort
crisis is one of my favouritebooks.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, I love that one .
In your book you talked aboutsocial situations as well, and
it's sort of introversion andextroversion.
Can you tell us more about howsocial situations affect your
recovery?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Sure, yeah, I'm quite boring when it comes to social
situations and what happens tomy nervous system, because
that's pretty stable.
But what has been veryinteresting because so many
people contact me, you know thisbook has been just a huge
bestseller in norway for twoyears now.
I'm still in this kind oftornado of of attention and I
(17:59):
was on tv earlier today on livetv and and so so it's just been
this huge success.
So I get so many messages frompeople and quite a few of them
tell me that they used to thinkthey're introverts, or they are
introverts but they would thinkthat being together with people
was stressful and being alonewas not stressful.
(18:21):
But they can see on theirGarmin watches this would be
harder to see on your Oura Ring,though.
They can see on their Garminwatches that being together with
the people is actually notstressful.
And then suddenly they becomemore social because they see
that it really relaxes them.
You know, shown in the heartrate, and that is probably
because maybe they were stressedin a kind of mental way, but
(18:46):
their heart rate that will relaxonce you are together with
people will tell a differentstory.
And then they allowedthemselves to be more social and
became happier, you know, as aconsequence of that.
So so that is very interesting,I find yeah, I found that
surprisingly when I initially.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
The first time I got this insight was when andy and I
went on a trip to phoenix andwe I shared a room with our
friend ollie and even thoughwe'd been like partying, my hrv
and sleep were phenomenally high.
And then I took another tripwith ollie and his family.
We went skiing.
I was like, oh my god, my sleepand my hrv are phenomenally
high whenever I'm around ollie.
(19:29):
My hrv goes really high.
Then I realized it wasn't ollie, it was just friends.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
When I felt safe with friends, when I had friends
over to stay, my sleepefficiency would go way up and I
think it's just you know,having another body there helped
me relax yeah, absolutely, andI was, and people contact me
also that they can see that withcertain colleagues they are
stressed and with other onesthey can do exactly the same job
and they're not stressed.
(19:57):
You know, and some of them haveasked their bosses, you know,
could you adjust the time Ispend with these people and have
gotten approval for that, andothers have told me that, okay,
there was no choice here.
I cannot.
I can think different ways andtake it as a challenge to you
(20:24):
know, to try to think about itand deal with it in a different
way.
That will make my nervoussystem relax more and as well as
health optimization.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Is it possible?
You are a general practitionerdoctor I'm right in saying that
disease detection.
Can you use this kind of datato?
To look for that, and whatshould people be looking for?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
absolutely, you can see.
You know the common infectionsyou would easily see and usually
one day or two before you feelthe symptoms, you can see it on
your device, whether that wouldbe covid or urinary infection or
pneumonia or whatever.
You would also be able to seemore clearly the effect of a
surgery, for example, how longtime it will last.
(21:10):
You know the repair process.
But, even more interestingly,you would also be able to see
like cancer.
I know at least six, sevenpersons that has written to me
and said that they came to apoint where they could see their
hrv dropping and they dideverything right and they could
not explain it.
You know, and went to theirdoctors and and sure enough, the
(21:31):
it was a cancer that caused it,because a disease like cancer
that the body really has tofight very hard against will be
visible in the heart rate.
So so and you can google heartrate variability and cancer and
different cancer forms andprognosis, risk of relapse and
all these kind of things, andthere's tons of research showing
(21:55):
the connection to cancer andheart disease and all this
parkinson's dementia and allthese diseases that kills us
really.
So nine out of the 10 deadliestdiseases in the US has an
association with heart ratevariability.
So, absolutely, this issomething that is very useful
and the good thing is thatpeople will have the control
(22:18):
themselves.
They don't have to wait untilthey have to go to the doctor.
You know the patient's delaycan be very long.
You know that they will hopefor the best and think that the
symptoms are not so dangerous.
But probably once you see it onyour watch that okay, there's
something going on here, thenit's much easier to contact the
doctor and of course, they cansee it is more serious the
(22:40):
conditions but also see thatthey are depleted of iron, of
vitamin B12, vitamin D and suchthings also.
So it can also be used for that.
That's fascinating that 9 outof 10 diseases come from it.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Number 10 is road crashes.
Ah, yeah, hiv is going to helpwith that.
Yeah, so I assume you'reencouraging people to get ahead
of these things and to monitorthis stuff and actually, you
know, as you say, make it, catchsome of this stuff before they
have to come and see you yeah,yeah, it becomes quite visible
when you see the results.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
If you if your hrv, you know, drops from, say that
you have 60 in hV, I saw justtoday when I was on TV and the
other girl could show me the HRV, it dropped from 120 until 70
over time, like in three months.
It was not just a dip of one ortwo days and then I could.
(23:35):
So that's a significant change.
There's something wrong.
You know that this is somethingit could be.
She used to have an irondeficiency, it's probably that.
But anyway, it's visible andyou can go to your doctor and
say that, okay, this is aproblem.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
We have to find out what's the cause of this and
then with hrb, what have youfound are the most effective
things for improving it?
How that would be.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
That would be the combination of things.
That would be to do somethingabout your sleep, something
about your diet, something aboutalcohol, making sure that you
have some stress managementstrategy like breath work, cold
plunges, meditation or reading.
Reading is very good for manypeople, so I think it's to do a
little bit on all of thesedifferent areas.
(24:25):
Really, I'm not sure if there'sone.
If you're drinking a lot ofalcohol, that would be the one
then, but of course, mostbiohackers wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Apart from Ben Greenfield.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
He drinks every day, apparently, but he seems fine
with it, yeah yeah, well in inour world, wellness world, we
have a very many myths andmisconceptions, so would you
help us dispel a few of thecommon ones that you've come
across?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
yeah, if I can, that would be the first one, of
course, would be alcohol,because when I studied medicine
and this is then 26, 27 yearsago we were advised to have two
glasses of wine every day, andfor women one glass of wine.
That was the doctor's orders,you know, and the reason for
(25:18):
that was that the people wholived the longest drank that
amount of alcohol.
But it wasn't the alcohol.
We see when we go into theresearch now that it wasn't the
alcohol, but it was that theywere more social, they had
better relationships.
We as doctors would never havethought earlier that
(25:40):
relationships had anything to dowith heart disease or cancer or
autoimmune diseases or anythingof that.
You know, you could understandthat it had something to do with
mental disease or suicide riskand such things, but what we
find now is that being feelinglonely is as dangerous as
smoking.
Now there has been researchshowing that.
(26:01):
So probably the reason whythese people lived longer with
two glasses of wine was not thewine in itself, but that they
were more social.
So of course now they would saythat no alcohol will be benefit
for you, for your health, so initself.
So that would be one thing I'mnot sure it could be.
(26:23):
In general, the myths you knowof the sun ah, the sunshine,
that sun is bad for you.
It's just a misunderstanding.
I think that must be the theworst mistake from a collective
medical society that we advisepeople to stay out of the sun as
much as they can, and that hasbeen because of the fear of
(26:49):
melanoma.
But from the big biobank studywith 400,000 people in the UK
now they have followed over, Ithink, 11 or 12 years, they can
see that the ones with the mostsun exposure will have 25% less
chance of getting a heartdisease and 15% less chance of
(27:12):
getting cancer of all causes,and there is not an increased
risk for dying of melanomaeither.
And so I think that the doctorsand the society has just been
focusing on the fear of gettingmelanoma and have forgotten to
(27:32):
even ask for may there be somebenefits from the sun?
They haven't even thought aboutthe concept.
They have understood that thesun gives us vitamin d, and then
they have thought that, okay,stay out of the sun and take
vitamin d.
And then, of course, we havelearned that you will not get
the same benefits from takingvitamin d, because vitamin d is
(27:53):
just a biomarker that you havegot enough sunshine, sun
exposure, because you have somany other benefits from the sun
you get.
We have storages of nitricoxide in our below our skin and
the sunshine will release thatand we have in our mitochondria.
With the sunshine, with sunexposure, we will get more
(28:16):
melatonin, that is anantioxidant, and with the sun
exposure we will increase theeffectiveness of cytochrome C
oxidase, which will improve theATP production in the
mitochondria.
And it's really obvious, ofcourse an organism developed
under the sun in Africa that gotpale from moving away from
(28:40):
Africa, that got pale frommoving away from africa, that
such a creature should not be inthe sun.
It's such a logical mistakethat is it's hard to believe.
And and now we see the researchyou know there's so there's so
much research now that showsthis mistake.
So so my next book that I willstart within a month or so will
(29:00):
be about the sun exposure.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I love that.
I've been banging that drum fora while, often on deaf ears.
Yeah, it's.
Yes, I really appreciate you,with your medical background,
speaking about this and speakingabout, yeah, the sort of the
silo mentality of medicine.
How you know, skin doctors justthink about skin but they don't
think about heart disease andcancer.
(29:22):
I need to be looking at allcause mortality, not just you
know one individual thing, butsaying that there are.
So in the biohackers worldthere's, there are still
extremes in that you havesomeone like jack cruz.
I don't know if you know him,but he's like he's called like
mitochondria.
He's all about the sun formitochondria, but he's like
never wear sunscreen, be in thesun 12 hours a day, and if you
(29:44):
don't, you know, you know you'regoing to be absolutely
miserable.
And then you have brian johnson.
Do you know brian johnson?
Yeah, I met him the other week.
He's very pale.
He won't go out in the sun.
He checks on his phone the uvlevels before he goes outside.
He's like our uv is too high,can't, can't go there.
So with with jack cruz, wholooks quite old, his skin looks
(30:05):
quite damaged what are youractual like recommendations for
sun exposure?
Is there too much?
Is there too little.
Should we ever wear sunscreen?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
I think that we can go back to what the ancients did
.
They would be in the shade inthe middle of the day, so with
the most uv exposure.
They would stay in the shade inthe middle of the day, so with
the most UV exposure.
They would stay in the shadewaiting for the sun to go a
little bit down and then gohunting or foraging or whatever.
But I think that probably anhour or two would be enough.
(30:36):
Just like in many other things,that a little bit takes you
almost there.
You know that might well bethat 12 hours would be optimal.
You know what did they do?
Of course they were outside andthey had nowhere to go.
I don't know how long we've hadhouses or stayed inside the
caves, but I would believe thatanyone from the cave I recently
(30:59):
visited the cave in croatia andyou would believe that anyone
from the cave.
I recently visited a cave inCroatia and you would believe
that you wouldn't want to stayinside your cave if there's
sunshine outside.
You know why would you?
You would have to be there 12hours every day when it's dark
anyway, so you would be out inthe sun for 12 hours, so
probably that would be even thebest amount of sunshine you know
(31:21):
.
So that's probable.
So staying outside of the sun,that's obviously not a good
thing, and I don't thinksunscreen would be wise to use
either.
So it's all of this different.
The contents of the sunscreenyou know that.
(31:41):
You know a lot of women use,you know, for hormone
replacement.
You just spray your skin twiceand then your hormones are okay.
So it it shows you howpermeable your skin is and how
much anything that you put onyour skin can affect your system
.
So, of course, when we startusing sunscreen on kids you know
(32:04):
from top to toe and when theygo out, then then we're losing
something of that.
So I don't think that's verysmart.
I think it's better to havethem exposed for the sun and get
their tan in a natural way, sothat you will avoid getting a
sunburn just by exposingyourself gradually to the sun
and use the, the melanin in yourskin, as a natural sunscreen.
(32:27):
That's that's.
I cannot imagine that that thiswould not be the best option
what do you think about ediblesunscreens?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
my friend george, we just went on a hike and and he
ate his sunscreen and it had aload of ingredients like
astaxanthin, vitamin C and thenthis other Peruvian herbal
extract that I'd never heard of.
But then I also looked into itand a lot of the government are
trying to ban these ediblesunscreens, demand they be taken
(32:57):
off the shelf here inCalifornia.
But have you come across them?
Do you think they're any use?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I don't know why are they trying to?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
ban them, maybe because they don't work, or if
you get into conspiracy theories, because they want you to have
cancer so that you can go spendmoney on cancer treatments.
I don't believe that, but I'msure someone will be thinking it
I'd like to go back tosomething you said earlier.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
If it's right, tokyo you mentioned in terms of the
alcohol myth and the actualreason why people are living
longer as relationships andsocial interactions.
Are there any trends thatyou're seeing that are quite
worrying in the wake of thepandemic, where people are maybe
not socializing as much andmaybe we've become a bit too
much at home and behind a screen?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yeah, it probably aggravated an already present
problem, that people are morestaying to themselves.
They are more dependent onscreens.
We get our dopamine kicks frombeing on the screens and gaming,
and all the boys are gaming,you know, and everybody's
checking social media instead ofmeeting each other.
(34:02):
And, of course, during thepandemic, everything was even
worse.
So I'm not sure if there wasany other way, you know, than to
do that it's, you know, it'sthe age-old strategy for what to
do when the pandemic hits youmust isolate and otherwise you
die, you know so.
So, as the bodies were pilingup outside the, the hospitals,
(34:27):
you know, it's, I'm not surewhat else they were to do, so so
, but, but it seems to be a risein anxiety and depression and
loneliness, and the curves seemsto have gotten higher, you know
, after the pandemic certainly.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, well, over here in the us northern european
countries like norway and sweden, they're sort of mythologized.
Everyone just thinks that well,you know, if you're slightly
left of center, everyone justthinks we should be like norway
and sweden.
And I know that it's, you know,sort of seeing things with rose
tinted glasses.
But the thing that mysister-in-law lives in norway
(35:07):
she's just moved there recentlybut one of the things I kind of
understand about norwegianpeople is they're very
passionate about the environment.
They get outdoors a lot andnorway has a very it's seventh
in the world for happiness.
So I'm wondering what?
What is the secrets tonorwegian happiness?
Is it just being outside?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
yeah, it's probably being more outside, but it's
probably also it's a well-rundemocracy.
The systems work.
Uh, I think that has a lot todo with it, and I think so.
It's a small society, not muchtrouble, so I think it must be
(35:46):
these things.
And there's an outdoor slice,but that's probably just one
third of the population I wouldthink that will regularly go out
and be active in nature.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Okay, and going back to fitness, one of the things I
always notice is people justhear the advice they want to
hear.
So if there's someone whoexercises fanatically seven days
a week, they just hear the theadvice that exercise is good.
And then there's the person whomaybe, you know, is overweight,
(36:18):
out of shape and lies on thecouch all day.
They just hear you need to rest.
Rest is really important.
So, with that myth that moreexercise is better, how do you,
you know, how do you use thetechnology and the pulse cure to
to get people on the righttrack?
Speaker 3 (36:34):
yeah, the good thing about the garmin watches then,
in particular, that of coursethey are developed for fitness.
You know, for athletes that isthat they can give you a
recovery time.
So whenever I go out for a runor do some exercise or a hike or
whatever, it will give me therecovery time afterwards and in
(36:55):
that I can see that okay, I tryto spend as much energy that I
will give maybe 24 hours ofrecovery time that I don't put
more strain on my system than Ican recover from until the next
day.
So that is a way to be able toput not too much load on your
system.
Because I see many peoplehealth enthusiasts.
(37:17):
They are exercising way toohard, too long, too intense.
We're not made for that either.
When we put these wearables onhunter-gatherers that live today
, we see that they have two tothree hours of moderate activity
with some burst in between ofusing more force, but in general
they're not really vigorousactivity.
(37:40):
So if you do, I think there'skind of a sweet spot of maybe
probably around three or fourhours a week of moderate
exercise and that is healthy forlongevity and then to get a
better VO2 max, then you wouldhave to push even further, to
(38:07):
push even further.
But from the 50 percentile ofVO2 max and upwards it's not so
much difference in mortality orlongevity and that is a huge
step.
You have to exercise reallyhard to get from the 50, from
the middle and then up to the10% best.
That would demand a lot ofexercise and so I don't think
that would be worth it.
But the first problem is thatif you are among the 25% with
(38:30):
the lowest VO2 max, those arethe ones that have a problem.
So if you just do enough to staykind of in the middle, you have
done enough for the healthreason.
Of course you will not win themarathon or the contest, but for
your health is better.
Because I'm rarely surprised bythe longevity of athletes and
(38:51):
former athletes when you see theobituaries they seem to hardly
reach the average age.
I'm more often a lot moresurprised by how early they die
than how late they die.
I'm always conscious about thatwhen I see athletes when they
die can we talk a bit aboutpractical tips for diet?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
we've had a few dietary experts on the show.
Are there any things we need tokind of be mindful of in the
modern world?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
yeah, what we see.
We see and what we can track onour garments is that the usual
advice of intermittent fastingand eating real food, not
processed food, will also rewardyou with better heart rate
variability.
So having a restricted feedingwindow, eating window of maybe
(39:43):
eight or I would say six to tenhours I use six hours, so six to
ten hours would most peoplewould benefit from that measured
both in symptoms and in heartrate variability and doing also
fasting and fasting mimickingdiets, it will also give you a
better heart rate variability.
(40:03):
So I can see that.
You know garmin has a bodybattery system that you can see
how, if you go up to maybe 80 or90 during the night, you have
kind of charge yourphysiological battery and you
will see during the day it willgo down to maybe 20 or, if
you're very stressed, down tofive.
But when I I'm on a fastingmimicking diet it's totally flat
(40:27):
, it the body battery stays atthe same level as a and I'm in
the parasympathetic mode thewhole day.
So and that is very motivatingbecause you're a bit hungry, but
when you see the result, thekind of reward for it, it's so
much more motivating to do thosetough choices you know to eat
the right food and you wouldalso see that when you eat you
(40:50):
know chocolate, candy crisps andthese kind of things that even
if you are relaxing and watchingNetflix in the sofa, your
stress level will be high.
So you have probably seen thaton your Oura Rings as well,
right?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
yeah for sure.
Yeah well, especially when Iovereat, I think that's you know
, if I eat a big portion, thatdefinitely affects my sleep yeah
, yeah, the late night meals.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
You know that is something most people once they
start tracking, they cut down onalcohol and they cut down on
late meals or adjust their mealsto an earlier time.
Yeah, absolutely, and, and alot of people will find, if you
have a food intolerance, youwill see that your heart rate
will go up.
So for me, my, if I eat chilithen, then my heart rate will be
(41:37):
super high and I'll beexhausted the day after, so, so,
so it's individual also there'sa lot of fasting, mimicking
diets out there.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
How do you do yours?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
oh, there's a norwegian book on the fasting
mimicking diet, inspired bywalter longo.
You know his system, so I'veused that one.
So what does that look like?
oh this is.
I just follow that.
It's just.
You know, it's salads, nuts.
I'm not a good cook, I wouldn'tknow what it is.
I usually go to these retreatsand I get the food served and
(42:10):
it's good.
So so, uh, the main point isprobably to keep keep the
proteins low and then to havemaybe 700 calories a day, and
that is supposed to give thesame autophagy as fasting.
You, you know water fasting, soof course, autophagy is a new
(42:34):
concept.
We did not learn that inmedical school, but it's, of
course, a smart thing that ourbody has developed that instead
of, and also why all religionshave fasting.
You know, if all religions havea certain thing in common, it
is probably good, and that iswhat we find then that if you
are fasting, then your bodystarts recycling the worst
(42:55):
senescent zombie cells and usethat for to build new cells, and
those zombie cells are the onesthat are in on the verge of
becoming cancerous, and so on.
So it's quite important yeah,prolon is the.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That's the main one.
Yeah, I keep meaning to do that.
I just haven't built up thesteam enough for it what is that
?
yeah, it's a kind of self donefasting, mimicking diet where
you just you buy a box and it'sjust full of like nuts and and
things like that are about Ithink it's about 500 calories a
day and you do that for fivedays.
(43:31):
I think they've got some soupsand things and it's just done
for you and yeah, it's quitesimple.
It's pretty expensive for theamount of food you're getting.
You could certainly do itcheaper yourself, but yeah, it's
the fact that they've got youguiding throughout interesting
so I'm looking ahead.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
What do you see as the future of uh well, of
wellness and personalized healthyeah, I think at least, that
people will use these devices alot more that people, because
the pulse cure is actually stillnow, to my knowledge, the only
guidebook on how to use thewearables in combination with
(44:12):
lifestyle strategies.
If you know some books thatwill have this subject, then
please tell me.
Or any of the listeners youknow, contact me and tell me,
because I would love to readthat and learn.
But so, but to mine theeditor's knowledge and I try to
check it on the Amazon to see ifthere's any new books.
So I don't think that even thebiohackers or even the people in
(44:38):
general are aware of how muchthey can get out of their
watches or get out of theirheart rate variability.
And, of course, when it's moreand more artificial intelligence
involved that can combine theknowledge of what you're eating,
what you're doing.
You know we are using artificialintelligence for like
(45:00):
everything else.
Now we need to use it for ourown physiology and just the
heart rate and maybe blood sugarwill come as well, but just the
heart rate, the breath, thetemperature you can tell so much
about.
You have kind of 90 percent ofthe answers you need already
there, so, and the products arealready here.
(45:21):
So the future is here, you know.
We just need to use it, youknow, so to speak.
So so I think the thing is tomake people aware of that, that
the future is here, and to beable to use this technology to
for their benefits.
Yeah, and with the artificialintelligence, I think, when more
(45:42):
of that comes in because youknow there are artificial
intelligence that you can take apicture of your food and it
will register what you haveeaten, and once you can take
that into your heart ratevariability, suddenly it can
tell you that okay, when you eatthis, and this will be the
result.
So, for example, that's veryclever.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
And, yeah, we've mentioned the aura ring, but
you've also mentioned the garmin.
So what's your favorite uhdevice?
But you've also mentioned theGarmin, so what's?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
your favorite device?
Yeah, I've tried many differentdevices.
I've had almost six devices atthe same time at times.
So I started out using the ECGmonitor for two years, before I
was even aware of that.
You had the same system in thewearables, in the Garmin, and
then I could see.
I've used the Garmin watchesand used Polar and Apple Watch.
(46:31):
I used the Whoop band, ouraRing and I used the different
things, but Garmin is by far thebest, and it's not because of
Garmin in itself, but they havebought the Finnish company
Firstbit Analytics and they havemore than 20 years of
experience with physiologicalmeasurements.
So it's their system thatreally is the difference.
They make and present it in avery understandable way so that
(46:55):
you can get the most out of thedata that you get from the
watches.
I think so.
Now, that is, of course, if youwant to micromanage, if you want
to see exactly how much stressa podcast is or a or whatever
that could stress you, or afight with your wife, you know,
or whatever.
You will see, because with theaura ring, you just get the
(47:19):
result in the morning.
So it's like you go into thesupermarket and do a big
shopping and you only get thetotal, you don't get the items
in itself.
So so the Garmin watch is whatwill give you the different
items.
You understand that this costsso much and the cold punch you
know gave you so much, and so on.
So, yeah, and Garmin watchesare also and I'm not no
(47:40):
affiliations, no, no interest ineconomical anyway.
So, and they have also thecheapest ones.
So even with the Vivo smart 5that you probably cost you, you
know, $120,.
You get 80% of the informationout of that, so it's also very
accessible for people.
And of course, you have theprice range you know, all the
way to the top, with addedbenefits on each kind of step
(48:03):
along the way.
So, and if you have an AppleWatch, which many people have,
then if you have the app that iscalled Athletic, that's a quite
good one.
So at least the best one I'veseen so far for the Apple Watch,
it's the combination betweenAthlete and Analytic, the
Athletic app.
And other than that, I thinkwhat is so good is that there's
(48:26):
kind of the big game change isthat we take the power from the
doctors and the healthcaresystem and put it into your own
hands, and also that we take theshift into waiting until you
get sick and then having a wayto avoid getting sick.
So I think these two changesare very important, and also
(48:47):
that there is money in keepingyou healthy, because the problem
in the healthcare system isthat there's too much money in
sick people.
A system that is the solutionto a problem will maintain the
problem that it is the solutionto you know.
So it's this system and all themoney involved in sick people
that is the problem, and nowthere's money in keeping people
(49:09):
healthy, and that is quitepromising.
I think.
I'm not sure if you see it thesame way I do.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I'm very happy to hear someone on the inside you
know a doctor was saying thatbecause generally it's people
from the outside criticizingdoctors in the medical system
and there's, I know there'squite a lot of like you feel
like gatekeeping, like when II've seen doctors and you know
I've told them about, told themabout the holistic things I
would be doing for my health,they're a bit like, oh no, you
(49:35):
don't want to be doing that, youdon't want to be doing saunas
or ice baths or breath work.
Just leave it to me, keeppaying me and I'll fix all your
problems.
But certainly in the US themedical model is different to
the UK where there's, you know,a supposedly collapsing national
health care system and there'sno money for it.
So I can see in the uk therewould be a lot more appetite for
(49:56):
preventative medicine, whereashere in the us it's just all
about yeah, it's all about thebig pharmaceutical companies, it
seems yeah, and everything.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
You know everything in the pulse cure in my book is
free.
So you know sunshine, knowsunshine.
You know getting out in nature.
Fasting is even cheaper.
Of course, cold is even cheaper, at least in the UK.
But in the US, you know, youhave to turn on your air con so
it might be expensive.
And drinking water instead ofalcohol and all of these things,
(50:27):
you know it's sunshine.
Activity, moving pilgrimages,it's all free.
And that is also the problembecause there's no money
involved, there's no commercialpressure behind it.
So it's only after you get sickthat there's money involved
here.
So that's good because it'saccessible to everybody.
Even if you don't have anymoney, you can do the life
(50:47):
choices that, according to a bigAmerican study of 700 000
people, can give you 24 yearsmore lifetime.
So it's a it's not just acouple of years, it's a lot of
years.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
So it's yeah, that's a really useful study because
yeah.
Some people say, oh, I'm gonnaspend my life, you know 10, 10
years in the hyperbaric chamberand the sauna to get five years
back, it's like, well, you mayas well just have those 10 years
living your life.
But when you say actually itcan be up to 24 years, that
really makes it sound worth it.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
You've sort of preempted our final question
there, torquil, because we weregoing to ask you for some
practical steps from the PulseCure to help people with their
journey towards a better health,but yeah, you preempted that
one.
Towards a better health, betterhealth but um, yeah, you
preempted that one, so, um,we're gonna ask you, I'm just
gonna signpost everything, butwhere can we find you?
Speaker 3 (51:36):
oh, you can.
Um, yeah, my book you can finduh kind of anywhere.
It's on a, it's a normal book.
It's on amazon or barnes andnobles and search and it's also
an audible.
They can download and sendebook if you use the kindle.
And I also have a websitecalled thepulsurecom where you
can see a video lecture that Ihave on how to use the garmin
(51:58):
watches then and see the graphsand you can understand it.
And I'm on instagram, dr torkel, dr torkel on instagram, so I
try to put out content thereAlso in English.
Of course, there's a lot ofNorwegian there, but I try to
translate it and subtitle itinto English and so it's also
useful for English speakingpeople.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Excellent.
Well, thank you very much,Torkel.
This has been fascinating.
I'm sure our listeners willlove this and hopefully they'll
buy the book.
Yeah, hope so.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
Tom, thank you very much for your time cheers all
right, welcome back listener.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
We hope you enjoyed that.
Any, what are you going to takeaway from this episode?
Speaker 2 (52:44):
well, first and foremost, what a calming voice
of reason and Richard Blake, Ithink my main one is that a lot
of this is free and that a lotof this focuses on preemptive
measures before health problemsoccur.
So sunshine is free, sleep isfree, getting out in nature is
(53:09):
free, and it's not often youhear a doctor who's trying to
get ahead of some of this stuffum so passionately and calmly.
So, yeah, it's widely available.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
get out and do it yeah, and I love the fact that
he's a doctor and he's notreally advocating for the
medical system.
He's, you know, he's trying toget people to live happy,
healthy lives without gettingthem dependent on you know, five
different medications and andall those things.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
I feel like that's such a a refreshing take and I
think that that getting ahead ofit is actually absolutely
essential, as you said.
You said quite an unusuallygood point about the um nhs in
terms of we have a we have asystem that's creaking in this
country, and so anything thatcan help you get on top of your
own health early enough issurely a good thing.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Yeah, absolutely it is.
I think the US dominates thewellness industry and that the
lens they see through thingsthrough is well.
The medical system just wantsmore and more of our money,
whereas the rest of the worldit's all taxpayers paying for
the sickest people, and thatlens is well.
We need more preventative care.
(54:20):
So it is surprising to me thatthe UK doesn't push more
preventative care.
I know that it was a big stepfor them to prescribe meditation
on the NHS, which is amazing,but yeah, I think they should be
doing more evidence-basedthings.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Hopefully we'll get breath work in there someday,
that's my big goal, yeah, and ifyou are a doctor listening or
you know any doctors listening,then, um, perhaps get them to
start banging this drum as well,because the research backs it
up and it's really refreshing tosee big time all right.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Well, thank you listener.
Thank you andy.
Where do they find us?
Speaker 2 (54:55):
good question on instagram at andy esam at the
breath geek uh, richard uh lblakecom and all good and bad
postcard podcast postcardspostcards and we'll send you a
postcard all good and bad.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Postcards and podcast hosting sites yes, and another
reminder that I am now free towork not free, you have to pay
me, but I'm available to work,after four years, in the dusty
halls of academia, out, ready tobreathe you back into full
(55:32):
wherever you need to be.
Full health.
Yes, breathwork sessions forfunctional breathing and
conscious connected breathingonline are now available do you
reckon?
Speaker 2 (55:41):
richardelbloodcom do you reckon that's the point
where people start turning off?
When you say I'm available towork, you can always hear people
turning off yeah, people aren'tlistening.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Now we could just say whatever we want, insult
whoever we want.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
Thanks for listening.
If you are still listening,appreciate it.
Yeah, you're the best.
Thank you, dr.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Talkill yes, thank you, dr Talkill.
Thank you, andy, thank youlistener.
Hello, listener, you are not going to believe what
this insider has to reveal aboutthe medical system around the
world, isn't that right, andy?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, he wasn't exactly a supporter of my
sunscreen usage, to say theleast.
I think his views on the sunand sun exposure were
particularly against the grainof what you might expect for a
doctor.
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
it is, although I I I'm gonna take credit for this
one, andy, I have been bangingthe drum on the anti-sunscreen
um myth, we'll call it so we,yeah, so we should say dr torkel
.
Dr torkel farrow is our guesttoday.
He is the author of the pulsecure, a runaway hit book in
(00:49):
norway and and around the world,and he's a medical doctor and
he shares some of the thingsthat you will not hear on
regular, uh, regular tvmainstream advice.
He really does support the sortof biohacker movement that a
lot of uh, a lot of our guestshave been championing and, uh,
(01:10):
yeah, we get into all sorts ofthings that I think you are
gonna love listener.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, when was the last time your doctor prescribed
a pilgrimage, for example?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
yes, probably a thousand years ago maybe
possibly yeah, two thousandyears ago.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Maybe Possibly yeah, Two thousand years ago.
Likely none of our listenersthen?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, probably not, unless they're real biohackers
and they've been living for athousand years.
But yeah, what else do we getinto, Andy?
What else?
Yeah, I think the dietary stuffwas very interesting, the
(01:58):
fasting or fasting, mimickingdiets, calorie intake, the type
of food he has when he has it.
I thought was really reallyinteresting to hear as well.
So we talk about what is thebest device to track how you can
use metrics like your heartrate variability to predict
disease, catch disease early, aswell as optimizing your health
to get the most out of yourfitness and your social
(02:18):
situations things that you maynot associate with health.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, and I think the increase in wearing, um you
know, variable wearables is, is,is, uh, is noticeable, but
actually do you know what thatis telling you?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
absolutely all right.
Well, enjoy, listener.
This is going to be a greatepisode with a really top, top
class guest, a very wellcredentialed, a proper, proper
medical doctor with all sorts ofexperience and a really nice
holistic view.
So here we go.
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Speaker 2 (04:36):
Welcome to the show now.
You've traveled over 80countries and you've spoken
about the importance ofpilgrimage.
Can you share why you believepilgrimage is so important for
both mental and physical health?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, pilgrimage is probably my favorite way of
traveling.
Actually.
You come into a town on foot,you spend time the day out in
nature, you spend the time alone.
Often, even if you're walkingwith your family or a friend,
you will walk naturally part ofit alone in your own thoughts.
(05:09):
When you're walking in therhythm of your gait, then I find
that my thoughts will flow morenaturally and I will, you know,
just be in a kind of creativemode, getting the distance from
my normal life and kind of thinkvery differently.
(05:29):
And I've done the pilgrimage tosantiago de compostela twice and
there's also one in norway.
I walked with a friend we madedocumentaries from both of these
trips and I walked with myfamily to rome and even also in
Palestine.
I walked for two weeks with myfamily from Nazareth to
(05:50):
Bethlehem, and I'm not aChristian, so I do it maybe more
for kind of spiritual reasonsin general.
So I just find that it's and youwill meet people that are out
with the same aim.
So I find so many interestingpeople there and it's such a
(06:11):
good way when you want to changeyour life, to have this huge
gap, that I think you need towalk for maybe a month or maybe
even more, because the mostimportant thing is the time in
the middle there, when it's sucha long time you know a week or
10 days since you started thetrip and the end of it is still
(06:32):
far away and then I find thosetwo weeks there in the middle is
essential.
So many people ask me you know,can I do it?
You know 10 days and then 10days and so on and split it up,
but okay, if you don't have anyother choice, you could do that,
but I would mainly go for avery long walk, you know.
So that is some of my mythoughts about it I remember I
(06:54):
went to do.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
You know rupert sheldrake.
He's a sort of oxford biologistand he also talks about other
things like, um, well, thescience delusion is his big book
.
But he did a big book on thesort of the common commonalities
between all religions and oneof them was pilgrimage.
Pretty much every religionrecommends or prescribes
pilgrimage and yeah, there's alot of science behind that.
(07:16):
But I like how you said thereuh, if you want to change your
life, what do you think it isabout pilgrimages that helps
people change their lives?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I would say everything you know, because
your physiology is probably atthe top.
You know so, and probably thepilgrimage is from ancient times
that after you had been on sucha trip you would come home
invigorated and you would feelmore energy and you will feel
healthier and your mitochondriaare better, your brain works
(07:48):
better.
So this is probably some of thereasons why pilgrimages are so
nice, and it's also a spiritualjourney particularly the one in
Spain, I would think, becauseit's such a tradition also.
So you're kind of walking inthe footsteps of others.
You can feel this energy fromall the others that have been
walking there for like athousand years.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So I think there's this spiritual connection also
can you give us a little bit ofa clue as to what the insights
you get in the middle of thatjourney, then?
Is it just that you're so farfrom the beginning and so far
from the end?
That is, that's the feelingitself.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, so you're already into this rhythm.
You are rid of the worst painfrom walking and you have kind
of got it into the rhythm andyou can kind of it's like going
up in a hot air balloon andseeing your life from a distance
(08:45):
, kind of free from expectationsthat are used to back home and
the obligations that you oftenhave.
So, of course, on my trips wewere working, we were doing
interviews with people, askingthem why they did it.
So that was an added thing forme to get the insight into all
(09:07):
the other.
You know, we interviewedprobably two pilgrims pilgrims
every day, you know and got theinsight into why they did it.
And we actually made that.
After the films that we made,you know, we doubled the amount
of pilgrims pilgrims from norwayto santiago and also kind of
opened up the Norwegian one aswell, that we found that we
(09:27):
actually have a pilgrimage atour doorsteps that used to be
quite huge in the Middle Agesand then disappeared, you know,
with the Protestantism and allof this around the 15th century.
So it's been nice to have apart in that.
So before I wrote the pulsecure that these films that we
(09:47):
made was kind of my contributionto the public health, you know,
to keep people healthy in thatway yeah, I think walking is
such a key part of it.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Obviously people just think our walking just gets you
from a to b.
But there's the psychotherapyDReye movement, reprocessing and
depersonalization.
And that was developed here inthe hills of California where
this therapist, francine Shapiro, just noticed when people are
walking they have these lateraleye movements because they're
(10:18):
looking at the ground, lookingwhere to place their feet, and
she found that her clients weremore able to process, process
difficult emotions and then sheinvented this emdr.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
So I wonder if there's a kind of emdr
pilgrimage is probably, and onceyou scan your surroundings like
that is also healthy.
So everything we do that isreminiscent of the way we used
to live in the ancient times,that is, is good for us for some
reason, and probably the thingthat you can scan your horizon
(10:47):
and that you have the peripheralvision all over is probably
also very healthy.
Of course also you're outside inthe sun, and that is super
important.
We see more and more researchfrom the UK also and from the
Biobank study, that the sunshineis really important for us, and
particularly the infrared.
(11:08):
Half of the sunshine energy isfrom the infrared specter and
when you're walking out in theforest and the woods, the
infrared will be reflected fromthe trees towards you, you know.
So it you kind of get a fulldose on everything you can think
of.
You know you will get vitalizedon such a trip.
(11:29):
Also, you have thephytochemicals from the trees
that we inhale and that workstogether with our immune defense
, immune system, and soeverything strengthens us.
So it's no wonder that thepeople came back from a
pilgrimage looking healthier and, of course, and inspired other
people to do the same.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So yeah, there's obviously a lot of physical
benefits and also that themental stuff.
I think, like you said, thatchange is so difficult to get
someone to change when someone'sstuck in a rut, whatever it is.
You know they're obese and theywant to stop their eating, but
they can't.
Or they're smoking and theywant to stop smoking.
(12:10):
The psychology of change issuch um, you can go so deep into
it and so many people have somany different pathways to it.
Pilgrimage, I guess, is one,breath work would be another one
, therapy would be another one.
But yeah, I still don't feellike anyone's really cracked it.
Anyone's like anyone can saythis is how you make someone
(12:32):
change.
But we have to go through thesereally elaborate processes like
ayahuasca ceremonies or monthlong pilgrimages just to get our
us to change our minds, get ourus to change our minds.
But moving on to your book, thepulse cure so we talked earlier
.
We've all got aura rings onhere and I'm sure most of our
(12:52):
listeners know what hrv is.
But could you just start us offwith some of the basics of the
pulse cure, why it's importantto track our pulse and what hrv
is?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
yeah, so hrv heart rate variability is the
variation between heartbeats andit's quite beautiful, almost
touching.
For a doctor.
You know that what we can readout of our heartbeats compared
to our breath, that is what cantell us so much about the
physiology, the stress balancein our systems.
And the reason for that is thatif we are in the
(13:26):
parasympathetic mode of theautonomic nervous system, the
restful mode, the recovery mode,then when we breathe in, the
heart rate goes up a little bitbecause there's more oxygen in
the lungs and the heart kind ofpushes through a bit faster.
And then when we breathe outand there's less oxygen in the
lungs, the heart will relax alittle bit, measured in
milliseconds, and we can seethat difference with our
(13:49):
wearables.
But if you are in the stressmode, then the heart will beat
like a metronome, very steadily,like a clock, and the wearables
will detect this differencefrom the deep restful state and
until the very, very stressfulstate in the moment and also
accumulated throughout the dayand night.
(14:09):
And we'll, you know, throughartificial intelligence, through
the millions of people usingthese devices now, they will
give you an estimate of if yourstress balance is sustainable or
not, or if you will, becausearound 80% of the diseases that
we treat as doctors these dayshave a root cause in too much
(14:34):
stress.
That will lead to a chroniclow-grade inflammation.
And the stress will come frommany sources, not just mental
stress that we would think of asstress, you know, in everyday
language.
But once you start tracking it,as you probably surely have
seen, the diet will affect it,your physical fitness will
affect it, alcohol and so manythings.
(14:57):
Altitude if you go up to themountains, you know it will
affect the heart ratevariability.
So it's kind of a lot of thedetective work to do, because
the heart will respond to anydemand and it will also respond
to any de-stressing activitythat you would do, like breath
work or cold plunges ormeditation or what have you.
(15:18):
And so the heart is kind of thecontrol center, taking in
information and also givinginformation for us to be able to
have this window into ourphysiology that is so super
important.
And because we don't reallyhave this sense throughout
history we never needed thissense for our own state.
(15:40):
That wasn't the trouble state.
That wasn't the trouble.
You know.
Our threats came from theoutside, from animals, from
enemies, from, you know,poisoned, contaminated food and
such things.
But it's only in the lastdecades, or last, you know, 40,
50 years, that our inner state,our inner stress, is what's
(16:02):
threatening our health andlongevity.
So that is why this is kind ofa substitute for the senses that
we never needed to develop inhistory.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
What might we be doing to stress our bodies that
we might not even be aware of?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
The things that I was not aware of.
That was the stress of alcohol.
I thought that alcohol would bea good way to wind down and be
calm, to sleep well, and ofcourse anybody with an aura ring
can tell you that is really nottrue.
I would never have imaginedthat food could stress, that
something that I was eatingwould result in a difference in
(16:38):
my heart rate.
I would not imagine thatfasting would be so effective to
stay in the recovery mode.
And also the cold.
You know the temperature, thatthe body is so responsive to
temperature, both in heat and incold, that we can kind of hack
our systems and also becomestronger, more resilient through
(17:02):
exposing ourselves totemperature changes.
You know so we're.
If you're too comfortable, wehave this comfort crisis.
You know so if you're toocomfortable and not pushing
ourselves, we just become weakerand less resilient and well
will not tolerate as much loadson our systems yeah, the comfort
crisis is one of my favouritebooks.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, I love that one .
In your book you talked aboutsocial situations as well, and
it's sort of introversion andextroversion.
Can you tell us more about howsocial situations affect your
recovery?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Sure, yeah, I'm quite boring when it comes to social
situations and what happens tomy nervous system, because
that's pretty stable.
But what has been veryinteresting because so many
people contact me, you know thisbook has been just a huge
bestseller in norway for twoyears now.
I'm still in this kind oftornado of of attention and I
(17:59):
was on tv earlier today on livetv and and so so it's just been
this huge success.
So I get so many messages frompeople and quite a few of them
tell me that they used to thinkthey're introverts, or they are
introverts but they would thinkthat being together with people
was stressful and being alonewas not stressful.
(18:21):
But they can see on theirGarmin watches this would be
harder to see on your Oura Ring,though.
They can see on their Garminwatches that being together with
the people is actually notstressful.
And then suddenly they becomemore social because they see
that it really relaxes them.
You know, shown in the heartrate, and that is probably
because maybe they were stressedin a kind of mental way, but
(18:46):
their heart rate that will relaxonce you are together with
people will tell a differentstory.
And then they allowedthemselves to be more social and
became happier, you know, as aconsequence of that.
So so that is very interesting,I find yeah, I found that
surprisingly when I initially.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
The first time I got this insight was when andy and I
went on a trip to phoenix andwe I shared a room with our
friend ollie and even thoughwe'd been like partying, my hrv
and sleep were phenomenally high.
And then I took another tripwith ollie and his family.
We went skiing.
I was like, oh my god, my sleepand my hrv are phenomenally
high whenever I'm around ollie.
(19:29):
My hrv goes really high.
Then I realized it wasn't ollie, it was just friends.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
When I felt safe with friends, when I had friends
over to stay, my sleepefficiency would go way up and I
think it's just you know,having another body there helped
me relax yeah, absolutely, andI was, and people contact me
also that they can see that withcertain colleagues they are
stressed and with other onesthey can do exactly the same job
and they're not stressed.
(19:57):
You know, and some of them haveasked their bosses, you know,
could you adjust the time Ispend with these people and have
gotten approval for that, andothers have told me that, okay,
there was no choice here.
I cannot.
I can think different ways andtake it as a challenge to you
(20:24):
know, to try to think about itand deal with it in a different
way.
That will make my nervoussystem relax more and as well as
health optimization.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Is it possible?
You are a general practitionerdoctor I'm right in saying that
disease detection.
Can you use this kind of datato?
To look for that, and whatshould people be looking for?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
absolutely, you can see.
You know the common infectionsyou would easily see and usually
one day or two before you feelthe symptoms, you can see it on
your device, whether that wouldbe covid or urinary infection or
pneumonia or whatever.
You would also be able to seemore clearly the effect of a
surgery, for example, how longtime it will last.
(21:10):
You know the repair process.
But, even more interestingly,you would also be able to see
like cancer.
I know at least six, sevenpersons that has written to me
and said that they came to apoint where they could see their
hrv dropping and they dideverything right and they could
not explain it.
You know, and went to theirdoctors and and sure enough, the
(21:31):
it was a cancer that caused it,because a disease like cancer
that the body really has tofight very hard against will be
visible in the heart rate.
So so and you can google heartrate variability and cancer and
different cancer forms andprognosis, risk of relapse and
all these kind of things, andthere's tons of research showing
(21:55):
the connection to cancer andheart disease and all this
parkinson's dementia and allthese diseases that kills us
really.
So nine out of the 10 deadliestdiseases in the US has an
association with heart ratevariability.
So, absolutely, this issomething that is very useful
and the good thing is thatpeople will have the control
(22:18):
themselves.
They don't have to wait untilthey have to go to the doctor.
You know the patient's delaycan be very long.
You know that they will hopefor the best and think that the
symptoms are not so dangerous.
But probably once you see it onyour watch that okay, there's
something going on here, thenit's much easier to contact the
doctor and of course, they cansee it is more serious the
(22:40):
conditions but also see thatthey are depleted of iron, of
vitamin B12, vitamin D and suchthings also.
So it can also be used for that.
That's fascinating that 9 outof 10 diseases come from it.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Number 10 is road crashes.
Ah, yeah, hiv is going to helpwith that.
Yeah, so I assume you'reencouraging people to get ahead
of these things and to monitorthis stuff and actually, you
know, as you say, make it, catchsome of this stuff before they
have to come and see you yeah,yeah, it becomes quite visible
when you see the results.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
If you if your hrv, you know, drops from, say that
you have 60 in hV, I saw justtoday when I was on TV and the
other girl could show me the HRV, it dropped from 120 until 70
over time, like in three months.
It was not just a dip of one ortwo days and then I could.
(23:35):
So that's a significant change.
There's something wrong.
You know that this is somethingit could be.
She used to have an irondeficiency, it's probably that.
But anyway, it's visible andyou can go to your doctor and
say that, okay, this is aproblem.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
We have to find out what's the cause of this and
then with hrb, what have youfound are the most effective
things for improving it?
How that would be.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
That would be the combination of things.
That would be to do somethingabout your sleep, something
about your diet, something aboutalcohol, making sure that you
have some stress managementstrategy like breath work, cold
plunges, meditation or reading.
Reading is very good for manypeople, so I think it's to do a
little bit on all of thesedifferent areas.
(24:25):
Really, I'm not sure if there'sone.
If you're drinking a lot ofalcohol, that would be the one
then, but of course, mostbiohackers wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Apart from Ben Greenfield.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
He drinks every day, apparently, but he seems fine
with it, yeah yeah, well in inour world, wellness world, we
have a very many myths andmisconceptions, so would you
help us dispel a few of thecommon ones that you've come
across?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
yeah, if I can, that would be the first one, of
course, would be alcohol,because when I studied medicine
and this is then 26, 27 yearsago we were advised to have two
glasses of wine every day, andfor women one glass of wine.
That was the doctor's orders,you know, and the reason for
(25:18):
that was that the people wholived the longest drank that
amount of alcohol.
But it wasn't the alcohol.
We see when we go into theresearch now that it wasn't the
alcohol, but it was that theywere more social, they had
better relationships.
We as doctors would never havethought earlier that
(25:40):
relationships had anything to dowith heart disease or cancer or
autoimmune diseases or anythingof that.
You know, you could understandthat it had something to do with
mental disease or suicide riskand such things, but what we
find now is that being feelinglonely is as dangerous as
smoking.
Now there has been researchshowing that.
(26:01):
So probably the reason whythese people lived longer with
two glasses of wine was not thewine in itself, but that they
were more social.
So of course now they would saythat no alcohol will be benefit
for you, for your health, so initself.
So that would be one thing I'mnot sure it could be.
(26:23):
In general, the myths you knowof the sun ah, the sunshine,
that sun is bad for you.
It's just a misunderstanding.
I think that must be the theworst mistake from a collective
medical society that we advisepeople to stay out of the sun as
much as they can, and that hasbeen because of the fear of
(26:49):
melanoma.
But from the big biobank studywith 400,000 people in the UK
now they have followed over, Ithink, 11 or 12 years, they can
see that the ones with the mostsun exposure will have 25% less
chance of getting a heartdisease and 15% less chance of
(27:12):
getting cancer of all causes,and there is not an increased
risk for dying of melanomaeither.
And so I think that the doctorsand the society has just been
focusing on the fear of gettingmelanoma and have forgotten to
(27:32):
even ask for may there be somebenefits from the sun?
They haven't even thought aboutthe concept.
They have understood that thesun gives us vitamin d, and then
they have thought that, okay,stay out of the sun and take
vitamin d.
And then, of course, we havelearned that you will not get
the same benefits from takingvitamin d, because vitamin d is
(27:53):
just a biomarker that you havegot enough sunshine, sun
exposure, because you have somany other benefits from the sun
you get.
We have storages of nitricoxide in our below our skin and
the sunshine will release thatand we have in our mitochondria.
With the sunshine, with sunexposure, we will get more
(28:16):
melatonin, that is anantioxidant, and with the sun
exposure we will increase theeffectiveness of cytochrome C
oxidase, which will improve theATP production in the
mitochondria.
And it's really obvious, ofcourse an organism developed
under the sun in Africa that gotpale from moving away from
(28:40):
Africa, that got pale frommoving away from africa, that
such a creature should not be inthe sun.
It's such a logical mistakethat is it's hard to believe.
And and now we see the researchyou know there's so there's so
much research now that showsthis mistake.
So so my next book that I willstart within a month or so will
(29:00):
be about the sun exposure.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I love that.
I've been banging that drum fora while, often on deaf ears.
Yeah, it's.
Yes, I really appreciate you,with your medical background,
speaking about this and speakingabout, yeah, the sort of the
silo mentality of medicine.
How you know, skin doctors justthink about skin but they don't
think about heart disease andcancer.
(29:22):
I need to be looking at allcause mortality, not just you
know one individual thing, butsaying that there are.
So in the biohackers worldthere's, there are still
extremes in that you havesomeone like jack cruz.
I don't know if you know him,but he's like he's called like
mitochondria.
He's all about the sun formitochondria, but he's like
never wear sunscreen, be in thesun 12 hours a day, and if you
(29:44):
don't, you know, you know you'regoing to be absolutely
miserable.
And then you have brian johnson.
Do you know brian johnson?
Yeah, I met him the other week.
He's very pale.
He won't go out in the sun.
He checks on his phone the uvlevels before he goes outside.
He's like our uv is too high,can't, can't go there.
So with with jack cruz, wholooks quite old, his skin looks
(30:05):
quite damaged what are youractual like recommendations for
sun exposure?
Is there too much?
Is there too little.
Should we ever wear sunscreen?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
I think that we can go back to what the ancients did
.
They would be in the shade inthe middle of the day, so with
the most uv exposure.
They would stay in the shade inthe middle of the day, so with
the most UV exposure.
They would stay in the shadewaiting for the sun to go a
little bit down and then gohunting or foraging or whatever.
But I think that probably anhour or two would be enough.
(30:36):
Just like in many other things,that a little bit takes you
almost there.
You know that might well bethat 12 hours would be optimal.
You know what did they do?
Of course they were outside andthey had nowhere to go.
I don't know how long we've hadhouses or stayed inside the
caves, but I would believe thatanyone from the cave I recently
(30:59):
visited the cave in croatia andyou would believe that anyone
from the cave.
I recently visited a cave inCroatia and you would believe
that you wouldn't want to stayinside your cave if there's
sunshine outside.
You know why would you?
You would have to be there 12hours every day when it's dark
anyway, so you would be out inthe sun for 12 hours, so
probably that would be even thebest amount of sunshine you know
(31:21):
.
So that's probable.
So staying outside of the sun,that's obviously not a good
thing, and I don't thinksunscreen would be wise to use
either.
So it's all of this different.
The contents of the sunscreenyou know that.
(31:41):
You know a lot of women use,you know, for hormone
replacement.
You just spray your skin twiceand then your hormones are okay.
So it it shows you howpermeable your skin is and how
much anything that you put onyour skin can affect your system
.
So, of course, when we startusing sunscreen on kids you know
(32:04):
from top to toe and when theygo out, then then we're losing
something of that.
So I don't think that's verysmart.
I think it's better to havethem exposed for the sun and get
their tan in a natural way, sothat you will avoid getting a
sunburn just by exposingyourself gradually to the sun
and use the, the melanin in yourskin, as a natural sunscreen.
(32:27):
That's that's.
I cannot imagine that that thiswould not be the best option
what do you think about ediblesunscreens?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
my friend george, we just went on a hike and and he
ate his sunscreen and it had aload of ingredients like
astaxanthin, vitamin C and thenthis other Peruvian herbal
extract that I'd never heard of.
But then I also looked into itand a lot of the government are
trying to ban these ediblesunscreens, demand they be taken
(32:57):
off the shelf here inCalifornia.
But have you come across them?
Do you think they're any use?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I don't know why are they trying to?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
ban them, maybe because they don't work, or if
you get into conspiracy theories, because they want you to have
cancer so that you can go spendmoney on cancer treatments.
I don't believe that, but I'msure someone will be thinking it
I'd like to go back tosomething you said earlier.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
If it's right, tokyo you mentioned in terms of the
alcohol myth and the actualreason why people are living
longer as relationships andsocial interactions.
Are there any trends thatyou're seeing that are quite
worrying in the wake of thepandemic, where people are maybe
not socializing as much andmaybe we've become a bit too
much at home and behind a screen?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yeah, it probably aggravated an already present
problem, that people are morestaying to themselves.
They are more dependent onscreens.
We get our dopamine kicks frombeing on the screens and gaming,
and all the boys are gaming,you know, and everybody's
checking social media instead ofmeeting each other.
(34:02):
And, of course, during thepandemic, everything was even
worse.
So I'm not sure if there wasany other way, you know, than to
do that it's, you know, it'sthe age-old strategy for what to
do when the pandemic hits youmust isolate and otherwise you
die, you know so.
So, as the bodies were pilingup outside the, the hospitals,
(34:27):
you know, it's, I'm not surewhat else they were to do, so so
, but, but it seems to be a risein anxiety and depression and
loneliness, and the curves seemsto have gotten higher, you know
, after the pandemic certainly.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, well, over here in the us northern european
countries like norway and sweden, they're sort of mythologized.
Everyone just thinks that well,you know, if you're slightly
left of center, everyone justthinks we should be like norway
and sweden.
And I know that it's, you know,sort of seeing things with rose
tinted glasses.
But the thing that mysister-in-law lives in norway
(35:07):
she's just moved there recentlybut one of the things I kind of
understand about norwegianpeople is they're very
passionate about the environment.
They get outdoors a lot andnorway has a very it's seventh
in the world for happiness.
So I'm wondering what?
What is the secrets tonorwegian happiness?
Is it just being outside?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
yeah, it's probably being more outside, but it's
probably also it's a well-rundemocracy.
The systems work.
Uh, I think that has a lot todo with it, and I think so.
It's a small society, not muchtrouble, so I think it must be
(35:46):
these things.
And there's an outdoor slice,but that's probably just one
third of the population I wouldthink that will regularly go out
and be active in nature.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Okay, and going back to fitness, one of the things I
always notice is people justhear the advice they want to
hear.
So if there's someone whoexercises fanatically seven days
a week, they just hear the theadvice that exercise is good.
And then there's the person whomaybe, you know, is overweight,
(36:18):
out of shape and lies on thecouch all day.
They just hear you need to rest.
Rest is really important.
So, with that myth that moreexercise is better, how do you,
you know, how do you use thetechnology and the pulse cure to
to get people on the righttrack?
Speaker 3 (36:34):
yeah, the good thing about the garmin watches then,
in particular, that of coursethey are developed for fitness.
You know, for athletes that isthat they can give you a
recovery time.
So whenever I go out for a runor do some exercise or a hike or
whatever, it will give me therecovery time afterwards and in
(36:55):
that I can see that okay, I tryto spend as much energy that I
will give maybe 24 hours ofrecovery time that I don't put
more strain on my system than Ican recover from until the next
day.
So that is a way to be able toput not too much load on your
system.
Because I see many peoplehealth enthusiasts.
(37:17):
They are exercising way toohard, too long, too intense.
We're not made for that either.
When we put these wearables onhunter-gatherers that live today
, we see that they have two tothree hours of moderate activity
with some burst in between ofusing more force, but in general
they're not really vigorousactivity.
(37:40):
So if you do, I think there'skind of a sweet spot of maybe
probably around three or fourhours a week of moderate
exercise and that is healthy forlongevity and then to get a
better VO2 max, then you wouldhave to push even further, to
(38:07):
push even further.
But from the 50 percentile ofVO2 max and upwards it's not so
much difference in mortality orlongevity and that is a huge
step.
You have to exercise reallyhard to get from the 50, from
the middle and then up to the10% best.
That would demand a lot ofexercise and so I don't think
that would be worth it.
But the first problem is thatif you are among the 25% with
(38:30):
the lowest VO2 max, those arethe ones that have a problem.
So if you just do enough to staykind of in the middle, you have
done enough for the healthreason.
Of course you will not win themarathon or the contest, but for
your health is better.
Because I'm rarely surprised bythe longevity of athletes and
(38:51):
former athletes when you see theobituaries they seem to hardly
reach the average age.
I'm more often a lot moresurprised by how early they die
than how late they die.
I'm always conscious about thatwhen I see athletes when they
die can we talk a bit aboutpractical tips for diet?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
we've had a few dietary experts on the show.
Are there any things we need tokind of be mindful of in the
modern world?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
yeah, what we see.
We see and what we can track onour garments is that the usual
advice of intermittent fastingand eating real food, not
processed food, will also rewardyou with better heart rate
variability.
So having a restricted feedingwindow, eating window of maybe
(39:43):
eight or I would say six to tenhours I use six hours, so six to
ten hours would most peoplewould benefit from that measured
both in symptoms and in heartrate variability and doing also
fasting and fasting mimickingdiets, it will also give you a
better heart rate variability.
(40:03):
So I can see that.
You know garmin has a bodybattery system that you can see
how, if you go up to maybe 80 or90 during the night, you have
kind of charge yourphysiological battery and you
will see during the day it willgo down to maybe 20 or, if
you're very stressed, down tofive.
But when I I'm on a fastingmimicking diet it's totally flat
(40:27):
, it the body battery stays atthe same level as a and I'm in
the parasympathetic mode thewhole day.
So and that is very motivatingbecause you're a bit hungry, but
when you see the result, thekind of reward for it, it's so
much more motivating to do thosetough choices you know to eat
the right food and you wouldalso see that when you eat you
(40:50):
know chocolate, candy crisps andthese kind of things that even
if you are relaxing and watchingNetflix in the sofa, your
stress level will be high.
So you have probably seen thaton your Oura Rings as well,
right?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
yeah for sure.
Yeah well, especially when Iovereat, I think that's you know
, if I eat a big portion, thatdefinitely affects my sleep yeah
, yeah, the late night meals.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
You know that is something most people once they
start tracking, they cut down onalcohol and they cut down on
late meals or adjust their mealsto an earlier time.
Yeah, absolutely, and, and alot of people will find, if you
have a food intolerance, youwill see that your heart rate
will go up.
So for me, my, if I eat chilithen, then my heart rate will be
(41:37):
super high and I'll beexhausted the day after, so, so,
so it's individual also there'sa lot of fasting, mimicking
diets out there.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
How do you do yours?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
oh, there's a norwegian book on the fasting
mimicking diet, inspired bywalter longo.
You know his system, so I'veused that one.
So what does that look like?
oh this is.
I just follow that.
It's just.
You know, it's salads, nuts.
I'm not a good cook, I wouldn'tknow what it is.
I usually go to these retreatsand I get the food served and
(42:10):
it's good.
So so, uh, the main point isprobably to keep keep the
proteins low and then to havemaybe 700 calories a day, and
that is supposed to give thesame autophagy as fasting.
You, you know water fasting, soof course, autophagy is a new
(42:34):
concept.
We did not learn that inmedical school, but it's, of
course, a smart thing that ourbody has developed that instead
of, and also why all religionshave fasting.
You know, if all religions havea certain thing in common, it
is probably good, and that iswhat we find then that if you
are fasting, then your bodystarts recycling the worst
(42:55):
senescent zombie cells and usethat for to build new cells, and
those zombie cells are the onesthat are in on the verge of
becoming cancerous, and so on.
So it's quite important yeah,prolon is the.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That's the main one.
Yeah, I keep meaning to do that.
I just haven't built up thesteam enough for it what is that
?
yeah, it's a kind of self donefasting, mimicking diet where
you just you buy a box and it'sjust full of like nuts and and
things like that are about Ithink it's about 500 calories a
day and you do that for fivedays.
(43:31):
I think they've got some soupsand things and it's just done
for you and yeah, it's quitesimple.
It's pretty expensive for theamount of food you're getting.
You could certainly do itcheaper yourself, but yeah, it's
the fact that they've got youguiding throughout interesting
so I'm looking ahead.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
What do you see as the future of uh well, of
wellness and personalized healthyeah, I think at least, that
people will use these devices alot more that people, because
the pulse cure is actually stillnow, to my knowledge, the only
guidebook on how to use thewearables in combination with
(44:12):
lifestyle strategies.
If you know some books thatwill have this subject, then
please tell me.
Or any of the listeners youknow, contact me and tell me,
because I would love to readthat and learn.
But so, but to mine theeditor's knowledge and I try to
check it on the Amazon to see ifthere's any new books.
So I don't think that even thebiohackers or even the people in
(44:38):
general are aware of how muchthey can get out of their
watches or get out of theirheart rate variability.
And, of course, when it's moreand more artificial intelligence
involved that can combine theknowledge of what you're eating,
what you're doing.
You know we are using artificialintelligence for like
(45:00):
everything else.
Now we need to use it for ourown physiology and just the
heart rate and maybe blood sugarwill come as well, but just the
heart rate, the breath, thetemperature you can tell so much
about.
You have kind of 90 percent ofthe answers you need already
there, so, and the products arealready here.
(45:21):
So the future is here, you know.
We just need to use it, youknow, so to speak.
So so I think the thing is tomake people aware of that, that
the future is here, and to beable to use this technology to
for their benefits.
Yeah, and with the artificialintelligence, I think, when more
(45:42):
of that comes in because youknow there are artificial
intelligence that you can take apicture of your food and it
will register what you haveeaten, and once you can take
that into your heart ratevariability, suddenly it can
tell you that okay, when you eatthis, and this will be the
result.
So, for example, that's veryclever.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
And, yeah, we've mentioned the aura ring, but
you've also mentioned the garmin.
So what's your favorite uhdevice?
But you've also mentioned theGarmin, so what's?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
your favorite device?
Yeah, I've tried many differentdevices.
I've had almost six devices atthe same time at times.
So I started out using the ECGmonitor for two years, before I
was even aware of that.
You had the same system in thewearables, in the Garmin, and
then I could see.
I've used the Garmin watchesand used Polar and Apple Watch.
(46:31):
I used the Whoop band, ouraRing and I used the different
things, but Garmin is by far thebest, and it's not because of
Garmin in itself, but they havebought the Finnish company
Firstbit Analytics and they havemore than 20 years of
experience with physiologicalmeasurements.
So it's their system thatreally is the difference.
They make and present it in avery understandable way so that
(46:55):
you can get the most out of thedata that you get from the
watches.
I think so.
Now, that is, of course, if youwant to micromanage, if you want
to see exactly how much stressa podcast is or a or whatever
that could stress you, or afight with your wife, you know,
or whatever.
You will see, because with theaura ring, you just get the
(47:19):
result in the morning.
So it's like you go into thesupermarket and do a big
shopping and you only get thetotal, you don't get the items
in itself.
So so the Garmin watch is whatwill give you the different
items.
You understand that this costsso much and the cold punch you
know gave you so much, and so on.
So, yeah, and Garmin watchesare also and I'm not no
(47:40):
affiliations, no, no interest ineconomical anyway.
So, and they have also thecheapest ones.
So even with the Vivo smart 5that you probably cost you, you
know, $120,.
You get 80% of the informationout of that, so it's also very
accessible for people.
And of course, you have theprice range you know, all the
way to the top, with addedbenefits on each kind of step
(48:03):
along the way.
So, and if you have an AppleWatch, which many people have,
then if you have the app that iscalled Athletic, that's a quite
good one.
So at least the best one I'veseen so far for the Apple Watch,
it's the combination betweenAthlete and Analytic, the
Athletic app.
And other than that, I thinkwhat is so good is that there's
(48:26):
kind of the big game change isthat we take the power from the
doctors and the healthcaresystem and put it into your own
hands, and also that we take theshift into waiting until you
get sick and then having a wayto avoid getting sick.
So I think these two changesare very important, and also
(48:47):
that there is money in keepingyou healthy, because the problem
in the healthcare system isthat there's too much money in
sick people.
A system that is the solutionto a problem will maintain the
problem that it is the solutionto you know.
So it's this system and all themoney involved in sick people
that is the problem, and nowthere's money in keeping people
(49:09):
healthy, and that is quitepromising.
I think.
I'm not sure if you see it thesame way I do.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I'm very happy to hear someone on the inside you
know a doctor was saying thatbecause generally it's people
from the outside criticizingdoctors in the medical system
and there's, I know there'squite a lot of like you feel
like gatekeeping, like when II've seen doctors and you know
I've told them about, told themabout the holistic things I
would be doing for my health,they're a bit like, oh no, you
(49:35):
don't want to be doing that, youdon't want to be doing saunas
or ice baths or breath work.
Just leave it to me, keeppaying me and I'll fix all your
problems.
But certainly in the US themedical model is different to
the UK where there's, you know,a supposedly collapsing national
health care system and there'sno money for it.
So I can see in the uk therewould be a lot more appetite for
(49:56):
preventative medicine, whereashere in the us it's just all
about yeah, it's all about thebig pharmaceutical companies, it
seems yeah, and everything.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
You know everything in the pulse cure in my book is
free.
So you know sunshine, knowsunshine.
You know getting out in nature.
Fasting is even cheaper.
Of course, cold is even cheaper, at least in the UK.
But in the US, you know, youhave to turn on your air con so
it might be expensive.
And drinking water instead ofalcohol and all of these things,
(50:27):
you know it's sunshine.
Activity, moving pilgrimages,it's all free.
And that is also the problembecause there's no money
involved, there's no commercialpressure behind it.
So it's only after you get sickthat there's money involved
here.
So that's good because it'saccessible to everybody.
Even if you don't have anymoney, you can do the life
(50:47):
choices that, according to a bigAmerican study of 700 000
people, can give you 24 yearsmore lifetime.
So it's a it's not just acouple of years, it's a lot of
years.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
So it's yeah, that's a really useful study because
yeah.
Some people say, oh, I'm gonnaspend my life, you know 10, 10
years in the hyperbaric chamberand the sauna to get five years
back, it's like, well, you mayas well just have those 10 years
living your life.
But when you say actually itcan be up to 24 years, that
really makes it sound worth it.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
You've sort of preempted our final question
there, torquil, because we weregoing to ask you for some
practical steps from the PulseCure to help people with their
journey towards a better health,but yeah, you preempted that
one.
Towards a better health, betterhealth but um, yeah, you
preempted that one, so, um,we're gonna ask you, I'm just
gonna signpost everything, butwhere can we find you?
Speaker 3 (51:36):
oh, you can.
Um, yeah, my book you can finduh kind of anywhere.
It's on a, it's a normal book.
It's on amazon or barnes andnobles and search and it's also
an audible.
They can download and sendebook if you use the kindle.
And I also have a websitecalled thepulsurecom where you
can see a video lecture that Ihave on how to use the garmin
(51:58):
watches then and see the graphsand you can understand it.
And I'm on instagram, dr torkel, dr torkel on instagram, so I
try to put out content thereAlso in English.
Of course, there's a lot ofNorwegian there, but I try to
translate it and subtitle itinto English and so it's also
useful for English speakingpeople.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Excellent.
Well, thank you very much,Torkel.
This has been fascinating.
I'm sure our listeners willlove this and hopefully they'll
buy the book.
Yeah, hope so.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
Tom, thank you very much for your time cheers all
right, welcome back listener.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
We hope you enjoyed that.
Any, what are you going to takeaway from this episode?
Speaker 2 (52:44):
well, first and foremost, what a calming voice
of reason and Richard Blake, Ithink my main one is that a lot
of this is free and that a lotof this focuses on preemptive
measures before health problemsoccur.
So sunshine is free, sleep isfree, getting out in nature is
(53:09):
free, and it's not often youhear a doctor who's trying to
get ahead of some of this stuffum so passionately and calmly.
So, yeah, it's widely available.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
get out and do it yeah, and I love the fact that
he's a doctor and he's notreally advocating for the
medical system.
He's, you know, he's trying toget people to live happy,
healthy lives without gettingthem dependent on you know, five
different medications and andall those things.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
I feel like that's such a a refreshing take and I
think that that getting ahead ofit is actually absolutely
essential, as you said.
You said quite an unusuallygood point about the um nhs in
terms of we have a we have asystem that's creaking in this
country, and so anything thatcan help you get on top of your
own health early enough issurely a good thing.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Yeah, absolutely it is.
I think the US dominates thewellness industry and that the
lens they see through thingsthrough is well.
The medical system just wantsmore and more of our money,
whereas the rest of the worldit's all taxpayers paying for
the sickest people, and thatlens is well.
We need more preventative care.
(54:20):
So it is surprising to me thatthe UK doesn't push more
preventative care.
I know that it was a big stepfor them to prescribe meditation
on the NHS, which is amazing,but yeah, I think they should be
doing more evidence-basedthings.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Hopefully we'll get breath work in there someday,
that's my big goal, yeah, and ifyou are a doctor listening or
you know any doctors listening,then, um, perhaps get them to
start banging this drum as well,because the research backs it
up and it's really refreshing tosee big time all right.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Well, thank you listener.
Thank you andy.
Where do they find us?
Speaker 2 (54:55):
good question on instagram at andy esam at the
breath geek uh, richard uh lblakecom and all good and bad
postcard podcast postcardspostcards and we'll send you a
postcard all good and bad.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Postcards and podcast hosting sites yes, and another
reminder that I am now free towork not free, you have to pay
me, but I'm available to work,after four years, in the dusty
halls of academia, out, ready tobreathe you back into full
(55:32):
wherever you need to be.
Full health.
Yes, breathwork sessions forfunctional breathing and
conscious connected breathingonline are now available do you
reckon?
Speaker 2 (55:41):
richardelbloodcom do you reckon that's the point
where people start turning off?
When you say I'm available towork, you can always hear people
turning off yeah, people aren'tlistening.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Now we could just say whatever we want, insult
whoever we want.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
Thanks for listening.
If you are still listening,appreciate it.
Yeah, you're the best.
Thank you, dr.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Talkill yes, thank you, dr Talkill.
Thank you, andy, thank youlistener.
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