What Does It Really Mean to Be Authentic? With Alex Manzi

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Kick off your journey to authenticity and personal growth with insights from our guest, Alex Manzi, a dynamic creator and coach with roots in the music industry and a stint at BBC Radio 1Xtra. Alex shares his experiences coaching high-profile clients and offers strategies for maintaining a healthy relationship with social media, a crucial element in our ever-connected world. We untangle the regional differences in TikTok's algorithm and discuss how these variations influence user behavior, setting the stage for a broader conversation on mindful social media use.

Reflective tales from both hosts take us through personal transformations sparked by moments of profound unhappiness, despite seemingly successful lives. We explore the pivotal role of authenticity in finding true fulfillment, sharing how books, meditation, and launching a self-development podcast for the UK audience were instrumental in our paths. The episode doesn't shy away from vulnerability; instead, it examines overcoming fears of judgment and the power of sharing personal stories to foster genuine connections.

Finally, we tackle the challenge of balancing growth with authenticity in a world where vulnerability can be commodified. You'll hear about the importance of intentional social media usage, avoiding the trap of endless scrolling, and the broader implications of digital distractions on our attention spans. We wrap up by emphasizing the need for self-reflection and rest, using personal anecdotes and strategies to illustrate how prioritizing well-being can lead to a more balanced, fulfilling life. Tune in to gain valuable insights and practical advice on navigating the complexities of personal and professional growth.

About the guest:
Alex Manzi is a Creator and Coach who works with Creatives and Entrepreneurs to help them optimise their mindset so that they can bring their dream projects to life. Alex is also the host of 'In The Moment with Alex Manzi' which is one of the most downloaded self-development podcasts in the UK as well as the author of the book 'The Search For Clarity' which he released in 2020.

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Andy Esam
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Andy, are you being authentic or are you doing
performative vulnerability at me?

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Oh God, I suppose it's a better question than the
are you burnt out?
Question.
I think I'm being more and moreauthentic.
I think at the start, when westarted doing this project, I
thought I was like, you know, Iwas really trying to make an
effort and be like something.
I'm not really, but now I feellike I'm very much more
authentic, you know.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
You, I'm always authentic.
I'm, I'm real, I'm the realdeal.
100 all day long.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, that's lucky, because our guest, uh, alex
manzi is very authentic andthat's one of his um key themes
and he I like the way he said hewas a creator coach or coach
creator.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I think it's a nice little combo there yeah, so alex
is a coach, but he is also verymuch involved in the music
industry as a as a creator.
He's done a lot with um, was itbbc radio?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
one extra was that the, the show yeah, radio one
extra five years yeah, so heworked there for a while and so
he's got his um, his fingers inthe pies of many people in the
music industry and he works witha lot of, as you're here, high
profile and and highlysuccessful people and, yeah,
he's managed to help thesepeople with his, his coaching

(01:15):
philosophy and enjoyed his takeon social media, because he's a
bit of a social media expert and, um, it was really nice to hear
from him how he engages it withit in a healthy way and how,
when he noticed he wasn't, forexample, on tiktok, he had to
get rid of it completely becausehe thinks the entire app is
designed to make you scroll and,uh, you know, keep your

(01:35):
attention focused on sillyvideos, which I'm sure it is.
But I don't have it.
No, I don't have it ahead,don't even have to delete it.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, you know, I did hear that the tiktok algorithm
is different in china than it isin the west.
In china they reward people whoare like helping old ladies
across the streets or you knowwant to be astronauts or brain
surgeons, whereas in americathey reward people for like
getting a football to the crotch.
So they're really like justmake, yeah, rewarding stupid

(02:07):
behavior, whereas in chinathey're rewarding actually
pro-social things quite like amix of the two, if I'm being
completely honest an astronautgetting a ball in the crotch an
old person being helped acrossthe road and a ball hits them in
the crotch.
Okay, fine that could be good.
Um, yeah.
So alex is a coach.
We're going to learn a lotabout his uh, his approach to

(02:29):
authenticity, his approach tocoaching, his approach to social
media.
And he's also a podcaster.
He's had a pretty successfulpodcast, number three, in the uh
, the health charts, at onepoint.
So you'll hear what you'll.
You'll be in the presence ofsomeone who actually knows what
they're doing.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Podcast yeah, so enjoy that.
Yeah, well, but before we diveinto the guests, I just wondered
if you've been working onanything you might want to
advertise rich.
I've just got this sort of oh,it's funny, you asked that.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, so I and joseph and you one of our previous
podcast guests have created a12-week program and it's going
to be available from Januarynext year and it's going to be
called Momentum and it's goingto the foundation is really
breathwork.
But it's going to be kind oflike an intro to spirituality,

(03:18):
an intro to nutrition, an introto exercise and biohacking.
You know, bridita, joseph's awell-known biohacker, the
founder of runga, and this12-week program, yeah, is really
going to kickstart your journeyinto those types of things.
If you, you know you'rewondering about your nutrition,
you want to lose weight, youwant to find purpose, you want
to find meaning, you want toknow how to do breath work.

(03:39):
And then this is going to feedinto this membership we have,
where we'll be doing livebreathwork sessions every month.
There's going to be live men'swork and women's work and, yeah,
it's going to be also havinglive momentum live.
We're going to be going intolive events, probably in Austin

(04:00):
Texas.
In Austin Texas.
That will be about, yeah, likea pilgrimage.
The culmination of your 12-weekprogram can be this live,
in-person with other people whoyou have been growing and
developing with.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Awesome, sounds great .
I'm sure we'll link the details, but for now let's hear from
Alex, please.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yes, hey, everyone.
Are you ready to kickstart yourhealth journey and experience
true transformation?
Let me introduce you to a brandnew program I'm thrilled to be
a part of, called Momentum.
Created in collaboration withRanga, momentum is a 12-week
immersive coaching programdesigned to guide you through

(04:43):
every aspect of healthtransformation, whether it's
physical, emotional or spiritual.
Think of it as the foundationyou need to build a life of
limitless energy, resilience andpersonal power.
Now you might be wondering whatsets Momentum apart.
Well, the core of this programis Breathwork.
Rooted in the clinical trial Iconducted for my PhD, this trial

(05:06):
showed Breathwork's incredibleability to reduce anxiety with a
large effect size andstatistical significance, making
it a true game changer inmental health.
With Momentum, you get the bestof both worlds Live monthly
Breathwork ceremonies that allowyou to experience these
benefits firsthand, and a fulllibrary of recorded sessions.

(05:28):
This means you can learn atyour own pace, on your own
schedule, from anywhere aroundthe world.
Plus, to keep you supported andinspired, we're including live
support calls with our eliteteam.
Momentum is about making youthe best version of yourself in
just 90 days, and runga's expertcoaching is designed to help
you achieve exactly that.

(05:50):
To get started, visit rungacoand join us in building the
foundation for a healthier, morefulfilled you.
The world is moving faster thanever.
Don't wait to bring your innerworld up to speed.
Join today by going to rungleco.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Forward, slash momentum like to start off with
a bit of your backstory, if Imay, so.
Can you tell us how you becameto be a creator and a coach in
east london?

Speaker 3 (06:22):
um, so yeah, like.
So the short version is 11years ago I had essentially a
mental health breakdown.
I was 25.
I'd realized that I'd beenmiserable for the previous
probably seven, eight years ofmy life, even though I had a lot
of the kind of you know, thetick box things of you know.

(06:45):
I was working in advertising, Ihad a good job, I was saving up
to buy my own place, I was in arelationship, but, you know,
going on nice holidays, all ofthe kind of tick box stuff.
I just felt, you know,miserable inside.
And 11 years ago I had this sortof moment where I admitted for
the first time out loud but alsoto myself, that I just wasn't,

(07:05):
wasn't happy, and that, um, kindof set me off on the path of
like, well, what, what doeshappy mean if I've got all these
things?
Like, what does that?
Even what does being happy meanif, if I've got all the things
that is supposed to make youhappy and I don't feel happy,
what, what's, what's the answer,kind of thing.
And it just that opened thedoor really for my own sort of
journey of personal growth and Igot into a lot of different

(07:27):
things.
I, you know, I started lookingaround, I tried a bit of therapy
and it didn't really feel likeit was clicking for me.
So I started to look atalternative options and the only
thing back then you know, we'retalking like 2013, something
like that, back end of 2013, Iwas like what do I do?

(07:48):
So I was like, well, the onlything I could think of was, you
know, pick up a book and startto read about this stuff.
So I started to research somebooks and I read the sort of
classics you know, like power ofnow, ego is the enemy.
Um, chimp paradox, ego, the Egothe Enemy might have been later
, to be fair, but Chimp ParadoxBooks like that, they were kind
of like in and around that time,like fairly well-known, and I

(08:12):
just started to like see adifferent something about life.
And then, like, my next step waslike, okay, cool, well, how can
I actually apply this stuff tomy life?
So I started to make changes tomy lifestyle, to my habits.
To, you know, I stopped stuffto my life.
So I started to make changes tomy lifestyle, to my habits.
To, you know, I stopped eatingso much junk food, I stopped
drinking fizzy drinks, I stoppeddrinking so much alcohol.
Um, I started meditating, Istarted exercising regularly, I

(08:33):
started taking my health moreserious, um, I started to um,
what was it?
There was something else that Ifeel like I'm not mentioning.
I mentioned meditation juststarted to like improve.
Like you know, I started agratitude journal, um, like just
positive habits, and then,essentially, over time, the more
I read and the more I applied,the more I started to see that

(08:55):
my life was starting to unfoldand it started to change and I
started to feel more positive.
I started to feel more sort ofexcited about the future, rather
than having this constant likedread and worry and sort of
miserable gray cloud hangingover my head.
And people that I was workingwith at the time started to
notice.
So I'd since left myadvertising job, um, and I was

(09:16):
working then at BBC Radio OneExtra as the social media
producer, um, where I worked forfive years, and people around
me started to notice like, oh,like they'd say things like, oh,
you're always so positive, likehow do you stay so calm?
And I was just I'd be thinkinglike you can't be talking about
me, but they were obviouslynoticing it and I was, you know,

(09:36):
inside I was starting to feeldifferent, but I didn't still
quite believe it until otherpeople were sort of reflecting
it back to me.
So then I got really curiousabout you know, what was going
on, and I started listeningaround 2014-15 I think to some
podcasts.
So some of the podcasts I waslistening to was like School of

(09:58):
Greatness by Lewis Howe, timFerriss's podcast and maybe not
necessarily in this order, but Iwas listening to a lot of Gary
Vee Oprah's podcast back thenand I was just hearing all of
these really amazing stories ofpeople who had gone through
something negative in their lifebe it, you know, what I'd been
through like a mental healthbreakdown or it'd been like

(10:20):
abuse or it'd been like a hugeaccident in their life and
they'd overcome that andactually gone on to create
something really incredible.
And I was really inspired by alot of these stories and I
wanted to kind of createsomething of my own, and that's
essentially what inspired me tostart my podcast back in 20, I
think.
Back now, end of 2016, early2017, is when I put the first

(10:44):
episodes out and the idea waswell, I'm listening to all these
amazing podcasts out there, buta lot of the guests that I'm
listening to American andnothing against Americans right,
but you know they don't soundlike me.
They don't.
They haven't grown up like me.
They don't get the things thatI get.
They're not into the music I'minto.
They don't get you know.

(11:04):
It just felt a little bitdistant still.
So I started to look around.
Okay, like what podcast is outthere that's UK based, that is
talking about this sort of moreself-development, mental health,
well-being conversation?
And at the time I couldn't findone.
That like there was some verysuccessful UK podcast, but they
were more like guys and girlschat shows, you know, like mates

(11:27):
sort of you know shooting theshit and having a bit of banter
and sort of gossipy kind of youknow stuff.
And I was like, well, I can'tfind one, so I'm just going to
start one.
I know enough people in inmusic and who do cool things,
and so I started the podcast.
Um in 2017 is when I launched it.
That went really well, wentlike straight into the new and

(11:49):
noteworthy section in the applecharts.
It then eventually got featuredby apple, was like their
podcast of the week or something.
Um.
That then propelled it intolike the top three of the
whatever the chart was calledback then alternative health or
something like that.
Now I think it's like healthand education, um, and it's
funny, I've still got ascreenshot.
There was like the minimalistpodcast, uh, lewis house podcast

(12:13):
, and then mine, um, and I waslike okay, that's pretty cool.
Um, and then, um, I know, Isaid this was a short version,
trust me, it is.
Um.
And then, basically, when thepodcast kind of blew up, people
saw what I was up to.
They saw the conversations Iwas having, they saw what I was
kind of doing and naturally,people just started coming to me
for help, like and askingadvice for like their career or

(12:36):
like creative adventures orwell-being or you know whatever.
And that kind of was whatopened the door for me to
coaching.
Because I started kind ofcoaching people in my dms
without really knowing that'swhat I was doing.
It was just just trying to helpkind of thing.
And then, when I started tofind out more about coaching, I
researched it, thought you know,this is something that I think
I'd be really good at.

(12:56):
Something I'd really enjoy ishelping people.
I've always, you know, helpedpeople throughout my career
through my life.
And, yeah, again, long storyshort, um, I got into it,
started coaching, enjoyed it andjust went full steam ahead.
Um, after 18 months of kind oftesting the field, I went um
full steam ahead in 2020.

(13:17):
Lockdown kind of kicked me offa off the fence in a way, um,
and I just thought, you know,I'm going for it and and I kept
up with the podcast and and thestart of the business at the
same time and I made that myfull like full-time venture was.
I just decided one day, rightnow, I'm a full-time coach and
I'm going to be a full-timecoach and I'm going to go out
and I'm going to build abusiness.

(13:38):
And four years later, um, herewe are and there's a.
There's a whole another story.
I could tell you abouteverything that's happened in
the last four years as well, butthat's the short version.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Nine awesome thanks so much for sharing.
Sounds like a great journey and, yeah, there's a part of me
that wants to ask for tips ongrowing a podcast, but I don't
think our listeners would bethat interested.
But um well, you mentioned timferris randomly.
I got some, uh, a dm, you know,in your sort of junk requests,

(14:09):
and all it said was tim ferristurned me into a drug dealer.
That was it, nothing else, justthat I was like okay, sorry, oh
good, congrats maybe he'sshowing off, yeah, um, anyway.
Uh, authenticity.
I want to dive intoauthenticity because I think
you're you're into authenticity.
So what does authenticity meanto you?

(14:31):
I?

Speaker 3 (14:32):
think like for me it just means to to be yourself,
right, whatever that is like you, just not like for me.
Like you know, that kind ofgets thrown around like be
yourself, like be your bestversion, but like I think it's
when you're acting and being,and it's more like a feeling for
me, right, I just know, whenI'm being authentic, like now.
I'm not trying to put on a show, I'm not trying to pretend

(14:55):
anything, I'm just talking as meand I'm and I'm sharing openly.
Like to me, that that isauthenticity, like it's just
talking, being open, talkingfrom your own experience, um,
and and sharing in a way that's,I guess, um, just coming from
that, that feeling of just likean authentic place within
yourself.

(15:15):
You know, I'm not, I talk how Italk.
I'm not trying to sound posheror or like I'm not trying to.
You know, this is how I talk.
When I'm talking to mygirlfriend, I start talking.
I'm talking to my friends,maybe with a bit more swearing
when I'm not on mic, but, um,every now and then, especially
when I'm watching football, but,um, yes, I think that's it.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I think it's just being able to express yourself
in a way that that feels true toyou was there any resistance in
terms of, like talking openly,um, and maybe resistance to
being your authentic self, fromeither, I guess, within like you
thought this is a bit risky orfrom other people, sort of
saying you know, because youknow there was obviously a

(15:57):
change that people noticed.
Did that make you feel nervous?
Or were you nervous about rightnow I'm going to be a bit more
open about this stuff or wereyou nervous?

Speaker 3 (16:03):
about.
Right now I'm going to be a bitmore open about this stuff.
Yeah, it was.
There was a lot of nervousnessaround that and I think that's
probably like when I look backat what took me so long to admit
that I was miserable, you know,11 years ago was probably that
nervousness around like how isit going to be received if I
share that with someone, even ifI think like on some level
consciously I wasn't aware, butsubconsciously I was probably

(16:27):
aware, right, and I and I thinkthat subconscious level was kind
of like there was a fear of howis this going to be received if
I actually admit this tosomeone and you know, and have
that conversation like what isit?
You know, is it going to makeme look bad?
Is how are people, are peoplegoing to judge me and all that
kind of stuff.
So, yeah, I guess it.
It took me a while in thatrespect, but then also, once I

(16:48):
did start speaking about it, Iremember like feeling really
nervous, like telling my friendsabout my experience and and
having that conversation with,with even just people close to
me, like family.
I don't think I've really everproperly had that conversation
still with with my family, ifI'm honest, they know, because I
talk about a lot on my podcastand online, but I've never
actually sat down and had thatconversation around.

(17:10):
This was my experience.
This was what was going on.
Um, so that nervousness stillexists, but, you know, I try and
again be as open as I can withit and and I can talk about it
quite freely now because it justI don't feel like attached to
it in any way.
There's no, there is nonervousness there.
It's just like I can.
I can almost talk about it asif it was.
It was someone else I'm talkingabout, or it's not my, it's not

(17:32):
, it's not me, it was just likethis is just a thing that
happened and it's just what itis.
Um, even though it's, it'sbenefited me in a lot of ways,
right.
So I think that's for me.
The nervousness comes into likeplay when I think about when I
first was like wanting to speak,it was like, oh my god, like
what?
How's this going to be received?

(17:54):
But actually I've never reallyhad a negative reaction to it,
if I'm honest, like wheneverI've told someone like well, I
remember like I was going to anArsenal game, met some friends
um before the game and we were.
We were sat in a pub and and Ijust started telling them and
they were like we had our beers.
It was very laddish, like we'renot, we're not like that group
of friends at all, we're notlike pubs and beers kind of guys

(18:15):
.
So it actually sounds quitefunny when I tell the story.
We were sat in this pub withour beers and I was talking to
them and telling them and theywere like oh wow.
And then one of my mates waslike yeah, you know, I had a
similar experience when and youknow he told his experience and
it was just really, it wasreally interesting, you know, to
kind of just speak in that wayand it's like, almost like being

(18:36):
able to take off the mask, youknow, and just talk as me rather
than talk as the version thatI'm trying to present to people,
as me rather than talk as theversion that I'm trying to
present to people.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, you've said you've never had any negative,
uh experiences from beingvulnerable.
But I have and I've had a lotof uh positive things and you
know, if you go deep into, youknow the the dark edges of the
manosphere with, like andrewtate not that I've ever I've
only ever heard secondhand infoabout his things.

(19:09):
But but think about ChrisWilliamson.
You know someone I listen to alot and he talks about
vulnerability and he will say hegives the example of Chris
Bumset that you know, the seventime Mr Olympia, the seven-time
Mr Olympia.
He can talk about crying on hisbathroom floor to his
girlfriend a week before the MrOlympia show because he's

(19:31):
already proven his competence.
He's already proven to beincredibly masculine and
competent, whereas the averageman, or let's say the man who's
less competent than average,doesn't have that credibility in
the bank to be able to bevulnerable.
So, um, I've I've been calledweak at times by people, I've
been called unstable for forwhat I just, you know,

(19:53):
considered showing emotion.
So what's your take on that?

Speaker 3 (19:59):
so I got a lot of takes on this.
So I think, the first thing,like, I love chris williams from
don't get me wrong I think Ilistened to his podcast.
I was listening to his podcastthis morning in the gym, right,
but I think that idea ofsomeone's proved their
masculinity, therefore they'reable to be vulnerable, is a lot
of bullshit, because I thinkit's very damaging.
Because I'm not a masculine,like classic masculine dude at

(20:22):
all.
I cry when I'm watching tv,like all the time like, and
movies, like you know, I get.
I get emotional around certainconversations or even like when
I'm just expressing my love tomy girlfriend, I get emotional
and I just that's just.
It's not a classic masculinetrait, right?
So I think that's like this andthis, there's a, there's a
quite um.

(20:43):
I think that's quite a reach tosay like someone, because
someone's reached, you know,they've been able to show their
competency as a masculine man,then they can be vulnerable.
I think, actually, to me,showing your vulnerability and
being vulnerable is what makesyou strong as a man and anyone
who who has a negative reactionto that.
To me that's more of areflection of where they're at,

(21:04):
not where I'm at.
You know, and I have had, youknow, it's obviously necessarily
a negative reaction, but I'vehad, you know, conversations
with with some people who, again, they might say, oh yeah, but
that's like a bit like you know,oh, you can't do, you can't cry
, you can't do those things.
It's obviously negative, but Ijust think it's like, well, that
just shows me that you're notcomfortable crying because I am,

(21:26):
you know, and that's more of areflection of you than me, I'm
good with where I'm at, I'm goodwith who I am, I'm good with
how I show up.
I don't have anything to prove,and I think it's when you do
have something to prove is whenyou detach yourself from certain
feelings because they don't fitinto the mold of what you're
trying.
Yourself from certain feelingsbecause they don't fit into the
mold of what you're trying, likeit's the mask, right, they

(21:47):
don't fit into the mold of whatyou're trying to prove.
So for me, it's actually comesdown to to be a masculine man.
You need to also be able to bein touch with more feminine
traits, because that's that'sexists in us, right, we're not
just masculine, masculinemasculine like this doesn't
exist.
Right, we have masculine energyand feminine energy and if
we're right, we're not justmasculine, masculine.
Masculine like this doesn'texist right.
We have masculine energy andfeminine energy and if we're

(22:09):
shutting off 50 of that, we'reshutting off 50 of ourselves.
You know, and I see a lot ofmen particularly, you know, some
of the clients that I work withfall into that, you know, trap,
so to speak, of just wanting tobe masculine men.
But actually when we start toexplore the other side, it opens
up a whole new, whole new worldfor me, and it's not always

(22:29):
comfortable and that's you know,a lot of people aren't
comfortable in those feelingsand I wasn't comfortable in
those feelings.
You know, I went to an all boysschool.
I played football my whole life.
You know I've been the captainof the football team.
Um, you know I've been a lad'slad, lad's holidays, but again,
not super masculine.
I've always been probably likea.
You know you've got like analpha male.

(22:51):
So I guess I've always beenlike a beta male, right, but
still like in very masculineenvironments.
Yet when I started to get intouch with the, the softer side
of myself, I started to.
It was difficult and I startedto feel more comfortable within
myself rather than, like Ialways had this performative
mask on, of needing to appear acertain way, etc.

(23:14):
Etc.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Etc did you know you had to get there as part of your
kind of journey or did you justdiscover that somewhere along
the route because it looks likesounds to me you know, you know,
I think you said 10 years agowas your, was the episode, and
it credit to you, by the way,for like trying all these new
things and like being proactiveabout trying to fix it.
But did you have that kind of?

(23:36):
Did you have any kind ofclarity of where you were going
and that you would end up inthis sort of position, or did
you just just think I've got tojust try all this stuff?

Speaker 3 (23:46):
It was more trial and error, to be honest, like if
someone had signposted it andlaid out the path.
That would have been great.
But you know, I don't thinkthat's how it works.
It's not.
That's not life, right?
Life is.
Life's a contact sport, right?
You have to play the game andyou get the feedback based on
the contact you get right.
And if you get hit hard, thenthe next time you have to think
about how you approach that samesituation and change your

(24:08):
approach so you don't get hit ashard, right.
And I think, yeah, like, for meit's funny because I was having
a conversation with my coach,like a couple of weeks ago, and
he said that I'm like a madscientist because I'm always
like trying, like, oh, I'm gonnatry this.
I like a mad scientist becauseI'm always like trying like, oh

(24:29):
and try this, I'm gonna try this.
They're gonna that little.
Like I'm always kind of playingwith things and experimenting
with things, because I know thatthe more that I experiment and
the more that I try things, themore I find out or get clearer
on what the path is right.
So if you, if I talked aboutchanging my habits and my
routines, like, if you look back10, even even like eight years
ago, five years ago at thehabits that I had in place
versus now.
Some of them are very similar,but they've also changed over

(24:52):
time because I've been willingto test and and and actually
find the things that work bestfor me at any given time.
And right now, you know, I'vegot a I said, a similar set of
habits, but different.
So, for example, I don'tmeditate as much as I did five
years ago, right, I exercisemore.
I don't do a gratitude journalanymore.

(25:16):
I just have, like a gratitudeas a.
I try and practice gratitude asa default rather than have a
specific dedicated practice togratitude.
Right, I do moreself-reflection now than I ever
did five, six, seven years ago,particularly with my business.
Right, even in the last threemonths, I've been doing a lot

(25:39):
more self-reflection in mybusiness in terms of what's
working, what's what could havegone better, what can I focus on
more than I was three, four,five months ago, right, so
that's something that I'mplaying with.
So I think, like, the more thatI experiment with things, the
more that I can find the thingsthat work with me, and it's not
like a, you know, I thinkthere's also a trap of trying
optimize.

(26:00):
You know everything and wake upand have the perfect morning
routine and listen to everythingthat Andrew Huberman says.
Again, great stuff.
Nothing against Andrew Huberman, but I think we can
overcompensate on that stuff oflike I need to get up and have
my 20 minutes of sunlight andtake my beta, whatever tablets
and go out in the sunshine andget my feet on the grass and
blah, blah, blah.
Beta, whatever tablets and goout in the sunshine and get my

(26:20):
feet on the grass and and like,yeah, great, scientifically it
works, but is it actually, youknow?
Possible number one and numbertwo have you actually tried any
of that stuff to see if it has?
It makes a difference to yourather than just listen to what
someone says.
Like find what actually worksfor you, right, and I love my
routine and it's come throughtrial and error and
experimentation and that's notjust like physical routines and

(26:43):
and stuff like that, it's morelike, I'd say, mental routines,
if that makes any sense.
Like actually like the thingsthat I process and how I process
them and you know, etc.
Etc.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Etc yeah, I think there's many ways to do the
right morning routine and it, uh, certainly there's an andrew
huberman, you know,science-based model.
But it makes me think about,you know, the analogy of
djokovic, federer, nadal allthree of them, you could say,
the greatest tennis players everall have a completely different

(27:14):
approach to tennis.
You know, one's really robotic,one's you know really ocd and
one's really relaxed, yetthey're, all you know, almost
equally excellent.
And so, yeah, I I think thereare definitely ways to um have a
great morning routine and andand.
Yeah, self-experimentation,self-quantification is, uh, is,
is the way to do that.

(27:35):
Um, I just want to, lastly,touch on authenticity, and do
you ever feel like beingauthentic has become just
another branding move?
You know, we see a lot of likeperformative vulnerability,
certainly on social media thesedays yeah, I think now it has.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, I think with, with, I think particularly with
the rise of tikt TikTok, right,there's a lot of like and this
is funny, right, because I've,you know, I've worked as a
social media producer and I'vegrown social channels, quite
large ones, to like hundreds ofthousands and tens of thousands,
and so I get a lot of it likein terms of the approach and I

(28:17):
do think a lot of it isperformative and I think that,
which is probably a good thingand a bad thing, it's a good
thing because it's showingpeople who are watching it like,
like being authentic is is good.
But I think if it's, if theperform, the performative nature
of it, isn't coming from anauthentic place, then for that
particular person it's probablynot necessarily a good thing

(28:38):
because it's it's a performance,it's not authentic.
Um, what do you think?
Because I think that's a reallygood question yeah, I I don't
like it personally.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I'm like, if you want to be authentic and vulnerable,
you don't need to recordyourself doing that.
Um yeah, I think it's slightlymanipulative.
If you're recording yourselfcrying about something is
probably premeditated and it'sprobably, um yeah, trying to
influence people to in a maybelike self-serving way.
So, um yeah, I mean, if it's,if it's organic and it comes up

(29:10):
naturally.
I imagine a podcast.
There's probably a lot morevulnerability that's authentic
in a podcast compared to asocial media reel.
That's, you know, 90 seconds ofyou looking at the camera
interesting on social media.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Um, and it's like what I just saw recently, like
last last two weeks of um, theaussie government has banned
under 16s from using it and Ithink there's some petition
going around with under 16s.
We've talked a little bit aboutthe impact it's maybe had on on
on younger people.
Um, how do you kind of likebalance that without you know

(29:47):
how do you use it in a healthyway, because you are very
capable of using it in ingrowing channels, as you've said
?

Speaker 3 (29:54):
yeah, to be honest, man, I think it's.
I've never really been like adoom scroller, like I don't.
It doesn't like I can fall intoit.
This is why I got off tiktok.
So I was just like this isfucking dangerous.
The whole app is geared to makeyou want to keep scrolling and
scrolling and scrolling andscrolling.
And six seconds, five seconds,three seconds, 20 seconds, like
the whole thing's geared towardslike where's the next?

(30:15):
It's like it's literally likecrack.
It's like where's the next hit,where's the next hit?
Like what's the next?
Like it's it's mental crack andI think the for me, the balance
comes from.
I know what I'm using socialmedia for.
I'm very clear, you know.
It doesn't mean I don't scroll.
I do every now and then, butI'm very intentional with my
scrolling.

(30:36):
So, for example, in the morningwhen I'm having my breakfast,
I'll open up my phone, I'll goon Twitter and I'll read the
football news, see what's goingon.
You know I'll.
You know, see what the, I don'tknow what the, the injury
updates or whatever right, justwhatever's there, right, like
even the fantasy football thing.
I just have a look, see what'sgoing on.
You know, and I'm veryintentional around what I'm

(30:58):
using it for.
And then I have times during theday where I go on and I just
have a little scroll, but itwill never be more than five
minutes, like never more thanfive minutes.
And if I catch myself more thanfive minutes, I just stop
straight away Cause I'm like I'mgetting sucked into a hole here
, which is my brain is tellingme it's great cause it's getting
the fucking crack that it wants.

(31:18):
But it's great because it'sgetting the fucking crack that
it wants, but it's not actuallythat good for me.
And you know we, you knoweveryone that I speak to and
again, this isn't like a dig.
I completely understand itbecause I can also relate, like
everyone I speak to these daysis that I think I think I'm ADHD
.
I think I'm ADHD.
I'm not fucking surprisedbecause your phone is teaching
you to want to move on to thenext thing every five seconds,
like we can't keep attentionbecause we're being we're being

(31:42):
shown that having a shortattention span is a good thing.
It's a good thing, it's a goodthing.
So we're constantly beingdiverted to the next thing, be
it you know, whatsappnotifications, be it you know
instagram notifications, be itscrolling on the feed, be it
emails.
Bit like there's just so muchgoing on all the time.
Not surprised, like.
I don't think it's, you know,people necessarily having adhd.

(32:05):
I think our brains have becomeaccustomed to that as a default
because of the way we engagewith our phones and stuff.
And me too, I'm not saying I'mdifferent, right, and saying I
can relate and I think like, ifwe can like, for me, like having
clearer boundaries around howI'm using my phone and and and
being more intentional, likeI'll even put in sometimes like

(32:27):
this sounds really funny in mydiary.
I'll put in like 20 minutes,like during my working day where
my literally all I'm doing isgoing on social media it's
particularly twitter to go on myfeed, scroll through, comment
to the friends that I've madethere, leave a comment to some
of the interesting stuff that Isee, and then I'm out again
after 20 minutes and that's it,right.

(32:48):
And again, I'm very intentionalwith what I'm using it for and
I'm not I'm very aware of notgetting sucked into the dopamine
um overload.
You know of doom scrolling andpeople call it doom scrolling,
so they know, but it's just likefucking.
Can you break the habit, youknow?

(33:14):
yeah yeah, and, and I see you,you see it right, like, and
again, this isn't a dig atanyone, right, because I
completely understand, but yousee it with you know, young kids

(33:34):
, like it's easy for a parent toput an eye for an eye or an
ipad in front of them to keep akid distracted and quiet, but
what's it doing for their brainis it's teaching them.
Okay, yeah, okay, next videoall right, cool.
Next video okay, cool, I'mgonna watch this.
Okay, next video that isteaching from an early age to
like, have distracted focus,right, whereas actually, when we

(33:58):
grow up and I'm assuming we'reall around the same age, right,
we had things like lego or likeyou know, stuff where you had to
spend a bit of time on, youknow, to actually accomplish
something, and it's not like,okay, I'm going to do like two
bricks of lego.
Okay, now I'm going to play alittle bit of scrabble, and then
I'm going to go over here andI'm going to move some chess
pieces, and then I'm going to goover here and I'm going to, you
know, do this part of thispuzzle, and then I'm gonna go

(34:18):
over here and start thispainting, and then that's
essentially what's going on, butit's just, it's happening in
people's minds and it's nothappening physically out in the
world.
So, yeah, I think I think it's,um, it's a massive problem,
huge problem.
Actually.
You, mm-hmm, mm-hmm?

(35:53):
Hmm, it's a great question.
I hadn't even really consideredit, to be honest, I think I
think for me, like me, like,I've always had social media, so
you know, I'm like a Facebookkid with growing up and my space
right.
So, like, I've always hadsocial media to some aspect, and
when, when I actually startedto share more openly and almost

(36:16):
document my journey was, youknow, like again, like 10, 11
years ago, and actually when Istarted to share online was
probably eight, nine years ago,but I just started to share
stuff that was interesting to me, like I might you know, I
actually started a wholeseparate Instagram account where
I would just find quotes that Iliked, I would post them and I

(36:40):
would write a caption underneathas to why I like that quote,
and that was it.
And I used to post some ofthose on my Instagram account
and if you scrolled far enoughback, you probably see some of
them and I would just documentthings.
Like you know, I was listeningto this podcast.
This is really interesting.
This is what I got from it, andI was just sort of sharing my
journey.
So it wasn't from a place oflike look how amazing I am, I've

(37:04):
got all the answers, because Idefinitely don't.
It was more of a place of likehere's some really cool stuff
that I'm learning.
I want to share it with youbecause, a it's helpful for me
to kind of deepen the learningfor myself, but B, if it's also
helpful for you, then yeah,amazing.
So even now, like, when Icreate content, I probably do it
in a slightly more like teachyway, but it's also coming from a

(37:28):
place of like.
This is something that I'velearned recently.
This is something that I'vebeen.
It's not just information.
I've read online, then I'vetried to regurgitate it and make
it into a video, which isprobably what a lot of people do
.
It's me actually saying this issomething that I've been
experimenting with.
This is something I've learned,that I've applied that.
I've seen how it's made anactual change in my life and

(37:49):
here's how it might be helpfulfor you as well.
And I'm approaching it fromfrom that place rather than like
hey, look at me, I'm on the topof the mountain.
You should all come up to thetop with me, because it's so
great up here it's like no, likeI'm walking the path with you.
I might just be a couple ofsteps ahead, but I'm just
sharing what's going to behelpful.
If you want to, you know, movealong the journey with me.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Interesting.
Funny.
You mentioned that walking thepath.
I've just finished anotherretreat that Rich sent me on.
That was exactly what it'scalled walking the path.
Um, yeah, I was kind of likecurious about about the social
media thing then.
Um, what is like coaching?
What you mentioned that peopleare coming to you is could you

(38:35):
like profile how they'reapproaching you through social
media?
Is there like any kind ofpattern that you're seeing in
terms of the kind of clientsyou're getting, the demographic
you're attracting, or is it justa real range of people who've
just seen your content and thinkyou know this guy's?

Speaker 3 (38:48):
yeah, so, so.
So it used to be quite a rangeof people, um, now I would say
it's a little bit more, um,refined, because I think my
content is more refined in termsof, like, the things that I'm
talking about just relate todifferent people.
That when I'm starting to talkabout, like creative burnout and

(39:12):
you know being a high achieverand you know trying to balance
kind of presence and performanceand stuff like that, you know
it speaks to different people.
That's not speaking to Sallywho works in the post office.
That's talking to.
That's that speaks to someone,like you know, the three of us
probably, right, we can probablyin some ways relate to those

(39:33):
three topics, just even if I'vejust made them up off the head,
right, so, naturally, over timehave just made them up off the
head, right, so, naturally, overtime, I think my content has
become is is become less broad.
It's probably the best way toput it.
I think it was quite broad atthe start because, also, again,
eight, nine years ago therewasn't really many people
talking about this stuff online.

(39:53):
You know, I was.
I would have so many peoplemessaging me oh my god.
It's so refreshing to hear aguy talking about this stuff,
like oh my God, like this, likeit was constant, like, oh my God
, like, keep up the great workYou're, you're inspiring me
every day and I you know, I'mlearning this from you and this
is what you know all of thiskind of stuff.
Whereas now you can go onInstagram and again, it's not a

(40:15):
dig at anyone, right, but everyTom, dick and Harry is out there
sharing stuff because, just,things are just so much more
accessible these days.
People are creating more contentthese days, so naturally
there's gonna be more peoplesharing, right?
So it's not necessarily a badthing.
But I think, when it comes tocreating content, my strategic

(40:36):
hat is okay, who's the peoplethat I want to speak to with my
content, you know, and with that, are they the people that I'd
want to work with as a client?
Because I'm very particularwith what I work with as a
client, right?
So the two things almost haveto to marry.
And again, I wouldn't say I'mperfect at it, I wouldn't say
I've got it nailed on, but andI'm playing around with

(40:59):
different types of content in aminute, but that's how I see it
is there has to be a little bitof strategy behind it, from a
business perspective, but alsofrom a perspective of, like,
who's who do.
I want this content to actuallyhelp, you know, because I can
be helpful for everyone, or Ican be really helpful for a
certain group of people yeah, um, andy, I just want to say I

(41:28):
really like you holding the penand, uh, asking your questions.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Looks just like jeremy paxman.
I like this and this vibe foryou?

Speaker 2 (41:34):
oh really, yeah, I, I do like to write little notes
and little tangents.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, thanks for noticing it looks very serious
yeah makes me feel like I'msaying loads of good stuff,
because you're always writingthings down.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Alex, do you think growth can be addictive?

Speaker 3 (41:52):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I actually made a podcastepisode recently called the I
can't remember the exact title,but it was like the
self-improvement paradox whengetting better makes you feel
worse, something like thatBecause it was like I started to
notice in myself that I got tothis place where, like, I was
learning and growing so fastbecause I'd been on this journey

(42:15):
again for like last 11 years,but particularly in the last
four years, where I've got moreinto coaching.
I've hired coaches, I've workedone-to-one with coaches, I've
gone on retreats, I've been partof group programs.
I'm just learning at thisincredible rate and therefore
growing at an incredible rate.
That what I found was I wasalways looking for the next like
level up, and where I was in mylife was never enough, because

(42:38):
I was like, okay, well, what'sthe next thing?
What's the next thing like whenI have the next thing then?
So I was constantly chasingthis, this, this idea of better
and more and growth and etcetera, and actually what I
found was there's a sweet spotof wanting to grow and be better
and achieve more things andperform at a higher level

(43:03):
without making where you're atnow inadequate to that.
So it's like being grateful forwhere you're at and
appreciative of where you're atand seeing the brilliance in
where you're at, whilst alsoknowing that there is, there is,
more available.
So it's not making it likebetter to to keep growing, even
though it is a better thing toalways grow, right.

(43:24):
So this is why it's a paradoxbut can you, can you can you
keep growing without makingwhere you're at right now
inadequate to the growth thatyou can have?
You know, and for me that's thesweet spot, because otherwise
that that addiction becomesanother trap of okay.
Well, like I said, what's thislike?
It's like the dog with a treatwhere's the next treat?
Where's the next treat?

(43:45):
Where's the next treat?
Where's the next treat?
Rather than, oh, actually I'mreally enjoying this treat, oh,
look, there's another one.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Okay, cool, I'm really enjoying this one now, oh
, look, there's another one,rather than chasing the next one
all the time I would also likerich to answer that question,
because you mentioned earlier,alex, you're a bit of a mad
scientist, I think I was.
Just I was picturing rich whenyou were describing what you're
up to, like trying everythingand like going from this to that
to this.
I think he's mellowed a lotrecently, rich, what, what, what

(44:12):
.
What's your take on that?

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, I would say that from a sort of early adult
age, I would learn that, like,having some kind of goal was the
thing that would get me out ofbed, especially when I was, you
know, had real problems withwith depression.
So I uh, you know, had realproblems with with depression.
So I uh, you know, building mybody, you know, going to the gym
, that was something that, um,it really got me out of bed.
But then I would, you, kind ofreach the peak for whatever that

(44:36):
is for you of.
You know, for me it was like,okay, I can't really add on any
muscle, I can't really lose anymore body fat, and then I became
become depressed again becauselike, well, I can't keep walking
on this path, because I can'tactually, you know, without
going on steroids, get any inany better shape.
Um, and now that's kind of thesame with.
Then I switched to CrossFit andnow I've sort of reached my

(44:58):
ceiling of my CrossFit capacityand, um, yeah, I, you know, I
did a competition the other week, and now it's like, oh, I'm
quite sad that I don't have acompetition to train for.
So I think that, yeah, there isdefinitely that trap of you want
to just be running up the hill,but what happens when you get
to the top of the hill?
You need to take time to rest.

(45:19):
You need to take time to justbe still.
And yeah, there's that thing oflike yeahris williamson thing
like type a people have a type bproblem.
Type b people have a type aproblem, like the person you
know, the high achievers.
They need to learn to just becouch potatoes for like one day
a week and just watch movies andchill out.

(45:39):
And the people who are couchpotatoes need to learn, you know
, a few days a week.
They need to to strive and pushthemselves and things like that
.
So, yeah, I think for me it'sbeen the challenge of just to
rest and stop and and not pushmyself so in the self-growth
sphere, then it's kind of justtaking time to, I guess, analyze
what you've just done.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Don't like go and do ayahuasca and then next week put
yourself into a silent retreatand so on and so forth.
It's about taking stock andactually checking in and seeing
how you feel after doingwhatever phase of your
self-growth you've just doneyeah, what do you think about
that, alex?

Speaker 3 (46:19):
yeah, I agree, man.
I think that integration is isimportant, right, it's like you
can't.
Like.
Even even athletes, right, theyhave plenty of rest time.
They're not just constantlytraining, like they probably
train two hours a day, you know,like out of a 24 hour day, like
probably maximum four hours,they're not training 10 hours a
day because they they're,they're resting and maintaining

(46:44):
so that they can perform attheir highest level on the
saturday or whenever.
You know.
I'm thinking about football,obviously, but like others, you
know, take athletics, it's thesame, right, usain Bolt probably
wasn't training 10 hours a dayand maybe he'll come on here one
day and tell you different,right, but you know, he's
probably training a few hours,getting his rest in so that the

(47:06):
next day he can train as best ashe can get his rest in, so he
can train the best again, sowhen the next athletic meet
comes, he can perform as high ashe as he possibly can, which he
did on numerous occasions.
Hence why, you know, broke somany world records and still the
world record holder, right?
And I think that there is meritin, like you said, the coming,

(47:26):
how you said it, like the high,the high performer having like
couch potato days.
But the trick is like to to beable to do it guilt-free, like I
love nothing more than asaturday or a sunday where my
girlfriend goes out.
I got that flat to myself and Ican just kick back, play
playstation, watch some footballand just chill out.
You know, not not really haveto do anything, but it took me a

(47:49):
while to get there from aperspective of not feeling
guilty for being productive.
Right, I would, I would do it,but I'd have this thing in the
back of my mind going, yeah, butyou could be using this time to
like create this thing, or like, what about that podcast?
You want to plan and you knowyou could start writing this,
whatever right.
And now I'm just like, yeah, Ican do that.
You know, during the week it'snot not deep, like it's actually

(48:11):
more important for me to enjoywhat I'm doing right now I think
that's what puts a lot ofpeople off, like the
uncompromising influences.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
You know, like what's your excuse?
And like what are you doing?
What are you just like, yeah,all right, that might work for,
but actually a bit of downtimefor me is what I need.
So I'm interested in, like youknow, you've been a bit of a mad
scientist, you've tried allthese things.
Have you got three tips for usthat like absolutely
non-negotiable, definitely work,and work for everyone?

(48:40):
I don't know about everyone.
I can tell you what works forme.
Yeah, okay, we'll start withthat.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
So for me, what works is get up first thing, go to
the gym.
Like four days a week, go tothe gym and and have and again,
I'm not, I'm not 100% great atthis, I would say but have goals
for my workouts.
I'm not just going to the gymjust to like get a workout in.
Like I'm actually workingtowards, you know, like recently

(49:08):
I've been working towards likedoing three sets of 10 pull ups,
for example.
So that's just like a goal thatI've got in the back of my head
.
Can I get to there?
Can I get to?
Um, you know, once I've donethat, maybe I'll start trying to
do muscle ups or something.
So just like having like a goalin mind.
So go to the gym again withintention.
That.
And for me, first thing is likeamazing, um, because it sort of

(49:30):
sets my tone for the day.
Um, on top of that, I'm goingto throw a really random one at
the end.
So secondly, I would sayprioritize eight hours of sleep.
Seven to eight hours of sleep.
Like that works, like I know.
So I go to the gym quite early,so I go to the gym at 6am, so
I'm up at.
My alarm goes off at 5.30,which means I'm in bed most

(49:52):
nights at like nine o'clock,cause by 9.30, I want to be
asleep, like, read my book andgo to sleep.
Um, so it's like, get thoseseven, eight hours in and
there's people out there whowill go, yeah, but what about if
you've got kids and but, and Iget it.
So I'm saying this isn't foreveryone, this is what works for
me.
And the third thing is um,actually I'm going to change the

(50:13):
third thing.
I was going to say drink threeliters of water a day.
That just keeps me like on itand only have one coffee in the
morning.
Um, but the third thing I'mgoing to throw in is
self-reflection.
That's really been working forme.
To throw in is self-reflection.
That's really been working forme, a lot like weekly
self-reflection.
Just sit down.
I sit down at the end of theweek on a Friday Last thing I do
before I close my laptop,normally about three o'clock on

(50:35):
a Friday, half three somethinglike that and I say, okay, what
went well this week?
And I list out everything thatwent well, what could have gone
better?
And I list out everything thatcould have gone better, what's
my focus for next week?
And I list that it's normallylike two or three things, and
then I review my calendar and Ilook at, okay, how many coaching

(50:55):
conversations did I have, howmany?
And I just look at, like thingsthat relate to my business how
many coaching conversations didI have?
How many new people did Iconnect with?
Um, how many hours did I spendin conversation with people?
Stuff like that it just relatesto my business, and answering
those questions provides so muchclarity for me in terms of on a

(51:15):
week-to-week basis, but also anopportunity to look back and
really reflect on, okay, whatcan I change, what can I tweak,
like where, where could I'veseen something different?
Where could I have showed updifferently, or whatever it may
be.
So, um, I'd say self-reflectionis is, yeah, that that third
one, and not not in any level ofimportance either.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
There's just three things, okay yeah, and there's a
lot of different avenues forgetting self-reflection.
You have journaling, therapy,coaching, men's groups yeah,
those types of things.
Is there anything that youthink doesn't work?
You know something that's sortof held up as a truth that

(51:59):
everyone should believe butactually you're not so sure
about.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
Yeah, there's quite a few, but the one that jumps out
straight away is like and I'mtrying to think how to word it,
but like this, this sort of likeum, um, over celebrated idea of
like hyper and, yeah, likehyper productivity, like being
productive all the time, like Iget what people point in that,

(52:28):
but I think, more than trying tobe productive and what people
take that for is being busy, islike actually focus on the
things that really matter.
And you'd be so surprised, likea lot of the clients that I
work with are like highachieving men, the entrepreneurs
or their business owners, orthey work very high up in sort
of you know, corporate companieslike MD sort of level and or

(52:52):
CEO or you know, and it's likethere's a lot of similar traits
that I see which is like theanswer to most of their problems
is to work harder, right andstraight away.
I'm like, well, that's not theanswer.
Like because you're telling me,if you work harder, then
something will happen andsomething else will happen and
something else happen and thenyou can spend more time and be

(53:14):
more present with your wife andkid.
It doesn't work like that.
You have to prioritize thethings that are really important
to you and make sure thatyou're doing the most effective
things with your work time soyou don't feel like you have to
work harder, so you want toactually have more time to spend
with your kid and your familyand stop neglecting your health
and get your exercises in andtake your.
Take your lunch break and um,what's other classic ones like

(53:39):
um, you know just just like eatwell, like don't have like a
quick, easy, grabbable lunch.
I actually take time to preparea nice lunch and you know when
you're with your, your family atthe end of the day, or your
partner or whatever like bepresent, don't be thinking about
work.
Don't have your emailnotifications on and your phone
on the table and like everythingpinging off.

(54:00):
Like leave your laptop in theother room, like all of this
stuff.
Um, is actually having thatbalance of the priorities is
what actually makes youproductive, because you become
more focused with the time thatyou do have at work, because
you're focusing on the actualthings that you need to be doing

(54:21):
, especially when you're higherup in you know, or running a
business, rather than just thebusy work, the nitty-gritty
stuff that you don't really needto be doing, and it's taking up
your time and taking you awayfrom the important things in
your life, like your health andyour family nice.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, I actually saw someone who's getting absolutely
rinsed in the comments, but hewas basically saying that he
splits his day into three daysof eight hours and like,
therefore, he gets three daysfor everyone's one and just like
.
What on earth are you talkingabout?
Was that kind of hyperproductivity?
Thinking I was just like youare actually a muppet yeah, I
think.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I think that's probably like a take on on
something that gary v's kind ofsaid quite a lot is like you've
got 24 hours, you spend eighthours sleeping, you spend eight
hours at work, um, you knowtaking you know two hours an
hour to travel there and back atyou know an hour for dinner and
you've basically got like fivehours left of your day.
Like what are you doing withthose five hours, kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Probably, it's probably like a version yeah,
I'm sure he meant well, it'sjust like basically said he has
three times more more days thananyone else.
He's thinking that's not quiteright, it works for him.
It works for him.
Yeah, I was also hoping you'dsay, when you're like what
doesn't work, I was reallyhoping you'd say conscious,
connected breathing.
That's been Rich's life forlike the last 10 years.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
I should have been quick of it.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I'm really hoping I was like fingers crossed.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Meditation is trash.
No, I'm joking.
Meditation is trash.
Now I'm done.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
I love meditation, so so what's uh what?
What's next for you?
What do you?
What are you?
Uh, what's your sort ofmedium-term goal, future goals?

Speaker 3 (55:53):
um.
So the mission I'm on at theminute, to be completely honest
with you, is, um, transformingthe approach to well-being and
productivity in the music andcreative industries.
So this is this has kind ofbeen my mission for a long time,
but now I'm actually startingto have more conversations

(56:13):
around it, and particularly inthe wake of, like the, the Liam
Payne news from a couple weeksago, and, having worked in the
industry and knowing artists andknowing how the industry works,
just looking at it from anoutside perspective now, and and
also from a coach's perspectiveof like, how can that be
happening?
It's 2024.
Like, where was the support?

(56:35):
Like, if I was working with him, we wouldn't be having that
conversation.
You know, if I, if I'd beenworking with him, with the
conversation we would be having,is like, oh my god, he's making
the best music of his lifebecause he'd be in the best
headspace of his life, becausehe'd be taking care of the right
things and prioritizing theright things.
And I want to, you know, changethat narrative.

(56:57):
You know, eradicate that kindof um, the, the mental health
issues, let's say, in those sortof music and creative spaces,
because it's rife and that's alot of down to pressures and
overworking and, um, you know,not having boundaries, and
there's a whole bunch of stuffthat's disinvolved um, so that's

(57:19):
kind of like the long-termmission.
And then sort of right in frontof me is um just continuing
doing my one-to-one work.
I'm thinking about potentiallybringing interviews back for my
podcast at some point in the newyear.
So, which is space, and, yeah,filling up my retreat, which is

(57:42):
happening in June 2025.
And they're the kind of mediathings.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
can you give us a bit more details about the retreat?

Speaker 3 (57:52):
yeah.
So, um, I mean, I'll give youthe the kind of nutshell version
.
So it's, it's a, it's actuallyit's like a six-month group
program, um, because I thinkI've been on retreats where you
just turn up for the day and ittakes half a day to kind of get
to know everyone and feelcomfortable in the space and all
of this.
So what I like to do is have itset up like a group program.

(58:12):
So actually there's four monthsprior to start to get to know
the people who are in the groupwith you through group calls,
through connecting with peoplein your own time and a bunch of
other stuff time, um, fruit anda bunch of other stuff.
So that when we get together,um, for the six days that we
spend in france because I hostit in france, south of france

(58:32):
everyone's already showing upinto that room feeling like
family.
It's not six strange or sevenstrangers, including me, showing
up, it's seven friends, sevenpeople who are already connected
, ready to get together and dosome really meaningful work and
make some meaningful changes inpeople's lives.
Be that mindset, be that habits, be that um, you know, changing

(58:54):
your belief systems, whateverit is, and it's it's kind of
different every year, dependingon the group.
To be honest, um and um, yeah,and that's basically it.
That's the nutshell version and, to be honest, I could talk
another hour about it.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
And where do people find more info about you and
your retreat?

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Best place is either Instagram or Twitter X whatever
people are calling it these daysat.
I am Alex Manzi.
I've also got a daily emailthat I send out, which you can
find the link to on both ofthose platforms, um, which I
just share kind of again myinsights, my learnings, things
that are kind of going on in myworld with, with actionable

(59:39):
steps and tips to help peoplekind of become more present,
more uh productive and uh lessburnt out in their lives and
creative endeavors.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Very good, all right, well with that, yeah yeah,
absolutely best of luck withthat listener.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Go check him out and yeah, thank you very much, alex
cheers, alex pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Cheers, alex Pleasure .
What a lovely young man.
I love the finish of love theend, not because it was the end,
but because when he was talkingabout his wider goal to improve

(01:00:26):
mental health and wellbeingwell-being and wellness in the
music industry and I've watcheda couple of documentaries
obviously we touched on what umhappened with, with liam pain he
was he was very passionateabout that and I've watched the
um avicii documentary, which Ithink was quite um, yeah, quite
harrowing to watch, and also,obviously, lewis capaldi um in
terms of of his struggles inthat regard.
So that really resonated withme.

(01:00:47):
I think that's such a niche butan amazing kind of aim to have.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Yeah, I was thinking about Avicii as well, and I was
thinking about this idea that ifyou're successful and wealthy,
you don't have a right to suffer, you don't have a right to be
depressed And's like, oh,whatever, you know you've got
money, you can just, uh, youknow, pay, pay your way into
whatever you want.
And it's obviously not true.
You know very many verysuccessful people, be it

(01:01:15):
professional athletes, actors,musicians, they, a lot of them,
struggle with their mentalhealth.
And yeah, really annoys me whenpeople say like, oh, you know
they don't have problems becausethey've got money, but it
doesn't seem to be the case.
You know, we can have empathyfor those people as well.
And then I also do.
You know the Enneagram Andy.

(01:01:36):
Yes, I am familiar.
Yeah, so there's the EnneagramType 4, which is the romantic,
and I think a lot of the Type 4send up being creatives.
You know, poets, writers,actors, those types of things
and their, their whole likeessence is often quite like
tinged with pain.
You know the the one of thecaptions for the type four is

(01:01:59):
like no one will understand thedepths of my pain.
So I wonder if that, the depthsof that pain, is like a fuel
for these creative aspects, thatpain.
It's like it's on a knife edge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
They need a book that my mom always used to like, and
it basically talked about thelink between um creativity and

(01:02:31):
basically basically bipolar likemental health issues and the
fine line between that, andthere's some very famous
creatives who've obviously gotgot got issues in that regard
and um a lot of comics, weirdly.
So, yeah, almost the theopposite of what you'd expect.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Um, with severe depression, um so, yeah, that
the comic thing.
Yeah, I can't remember who saidit, it was a comic and it's
like uh, you say to, oh, I'm acomedian, and the the first
question they ask is okay, whichone of your parents was
depressed?
It's like every comedianbecomes funny to help their
parents, who, one or two mayhave mental health issues, which

(01:03:10):
is quite sad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
There we go.
Yeah, agreed Well, no.
Thank you very much, alex forhis time.
I'm sure he has reached a verycool audience in our listeners.
Thank you for listening.
Where do you find us?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Where do you find us?
We are at Andy ASAM onInstagram at the underscore
breath, underscore geek,although I may be changing it
soon.
I may finally step into DrBreath.
Geek, dr Breath.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Geek, you can't do that, why not?
Okay, fine, I'll get used to it.
I'll come back to you withfeedback.
Okay, dr.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Richard.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
L Breathgeek.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
And for your website RichardLBlakecom.
That's my American website.
Well, it's been a pleasure.
Yeah, thanks, alex.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Again.
Thank you, listener, See yousoon.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Thank you Andy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Bye-bye.