The Journey to Divine Testimonial Reconstruction: Marlisa Wootton's Story - Latter-Day Lights - LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Episode Transcript
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Scott Brandley (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Alisha Coakley (00:02):
And I'm Alisha Coakley.
Every member of the church hasa story to share, one that can
instill faith, invite growth andinspire others.

On today's episode we're going to hear how
one musician is using her giftto help others deconstruct and
reconstruct their testimonies ontheir walks with God.
Welcome to Latter-day Lights.
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Latter-day

(00:37):
Lights.
We're so glad you're here withus today and we're really
excited to introduce our specialguest, marlisa Wootton, to the
show.
Marlisa, welcome.

Marlisa Wootton (00:43):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I'm so glad to be here.

We're so happy to have you.
Yeah, so, marlisa, tell us, howdid you come across the podcast
?

Oh gosh, I really enjoy LDS podcasts, and
yours is one that came up amonga whole bunch of others, so I've
listened to a few episodes and,yeah, I'm happy to be here.

Awesome, perfect .
We always love when we get newlisteners, and especially when
they're brave and they reach outto become beauty guests.
Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Yeah Well, why don't you tell us just a little
bit about yourself?

Yeah, well, why don't you tell us just a little
bit about yourself?
Yeah, so my name is MarlisaWootton.
I grew up in the middle ofnowhere in Idaho.

(01:46):
It's a tiny little town calledYukon Idaho, and the only reason
I name it is because my dadwould be upset if I didn't say
Yukon Idaho, instead just leftit as the middle of nowhere.
But everywhere in Idaho is themiddle of nowhere.
Yeah, I went to Utah StateUniversity for my undergrad,
which is where I met my husband.
We've been married about six,six and a half years now.
Yeah, I went to Arizona StateUniversity.
I am six months, five and a halfmonths, out from getting a

(02:10):
clinical doctorate in audiology.
I want to work with kids withhearing loss.
Yeah, I've got a dog and twolittle birds.
I love music.
I've played the piano since Iwas I think six is when I
started taking lessons and Ienjoy writing music.
On occasion I sing out ofnecessity, because I enjoy

(02:34):
writing music, though that isdefinitely not my instrument.
So that's kind of me.
In a nutshell, very good, cool,thank you so.

are you attending ASU remotely?

So the it's a four year program.
There were three years thatwere in person and then the last
year is like a year ofresidency.
It's called an externship forclinical doctorate in audiology
and it was just way too dang hotin Phoenix and Zach and I we
couldn't do it anymore so wewere like we were out of here.
So now we're in the Denver areaso we like it here very much

(03:14):
and it's much closer to familythan Phoenix was.

So yeah, I'm in Texas and you're right, it's hot
.
I miss the change of seasonsand the snow and the cold
weather.
And you're right, it's hot.
I, I miss.
I miss the change of seasonsand the snow and the cold
weather and all the things.
So I feel yeah.

I miss seasons.
When we first moved there, Iwas like there's no weather here
and people who were localdidn't understand it, and the
other people who were also fromcold places, they were like,
yeah, it's always the same.
It's always the same way.
Yeah, it's like the season ishot or hotter that's yeah,

(03:52):
that's what you get.

It's summer and other summer it's yeah, it's
like the, the hobbits versions,you know, like first dinner,
second dinner, third dinner,whatever.

It's yeah, first, second, summer, whatever
yeah, I mean to be fair tophoenix.

Winters there are the most beautiful summers,
but summers there are horrendousoh yeah, I was just in phoenix
and it was so freaking hot.
I actually I actually spoke atasu and one of the one of the
coolest things about that Idon't I don't know if these were
there when you were there, butthe automatic driving cars- oh

(04:27):
yeah, the Waymos.

I loved those.
Yeah, I used those on occasion.
Or Zach and I used them onoccasion for flights, so like to
get to and from the airport,because our flights were like
really weird times and I didn'twant to ask someone to drive us
to the airport or drive us homeat like three in the morning.
So we used the Waymo and Iloved it and he hated it because

(04:47):
he's like I don't trust theserobots and I was like I trust
the robots more than I trustPhoenix drivers.

I'm sorry, Phoenix, but it's a little bit
of a freaky experience gettingin a car with no driver and let
it drive you around the city,right.

Yeah, it is a little bit freaky, although I am
kind of an introverted personand I don't really like small
talk, so I actually enjoyed thefact that I didn't have to try
and pretend to make small talkwith someone.

So oh, that's so funny.
Yeah, I don't know.
I saw, uh, what's that I?
What's that I robot?
Is that what it's called thewill smith movie?
Ah, yeah, that's kind of I'mwith your husband I'm with your
husband on that.

It's a little, a little unnerving it is all for
automation, but some things Idon't know about yeah, yeah, on
asu campus um, they also hadlittle robots all over campus
that would deliver food.

Oh yeah, I saw one of those.

Yeah yeah.
It was super weird.
The first time I saw them I waslike what the heck is happening
.
I was like looking around tosee if I could find who was like
remote controlling it.
And then I found out that no,it's just that's what they do.
But Phoenix is a good place todo that, because they have no
weather.

Right, good times.
Well, yeah, we're reallyexcited to hear your story,
marlisa.
I keep on saying Marlisa, youprobably hear that all the time,
right?

I do hear that a lot.

We're excited to hear your story.
So why don't we pass the timeto you and tell us where your
story begins?

Sure, I mean, I guess, if I look all the way
back, my story begins when I wasa little kid and starting in
piano lessons when I was six andI just fell in love with it.
I have been playing pianobasically my whole life and I

(06:45):
was born a member of the church.
I really, really loved thechurch growing up and everything
about it.
I'm a descendant from pioneersand music was always the way
that I connected the most withGod and the time that I really

(07:09):
felt the spirit the strongestand the most, and that is still
true today.
Starting in about 2020-ish, Istarted to have a little bit of
a change in perspective, changein worldviews.
I think a lot of people did.

(07:29):
I mean, 2020 was such a crazytime I don't know if you
remember the memes of, like melooking out the window to see,
like, what chapter revelationswere in this month, Like it was
very, very much that kind ofvibe and yeah, so I became a
little bit more interested insome like social justice things

(07:52):
and just kind of expanding myworldview.
In middle of nowhere, Idaho, andthen in Logan, Utah, which is
also quite small and very, verymuch the same.
They're both lovely places, butit's a very homogenous place to

(08:16):
be, and Phoenix it was a wholedifferent world, an entirely
different place and lots ofpeople from all over the place,
a very big city, um, very, verydifferent from the other places
that I had lived.
And, um, anyway, with withmoving there came um more of
like kind of deconstruction ofthings that, um, I was taught

(08:40):
growing up, um things that Ilearned, um beliefs that I held,
and I hit this point of justkind of deconstructing
everything Um, and I I thinkthat, honestly, was a really
great thing to happen for me.
Ultimately, Um, I know a lot ofpeople, especially in a

(09:03):
Christian space like this, areafraid of the word
deconstruction.
What it is is doing.
Exactly what God has asked usto do is to try our faith, is to
look at our beliefs and decidewhat do I really believe.

(09:23):
I did a lot of readingscripture.
I read the words of Jesus morein 2020, 2021, 2022 than I think
I ever had, Just consumed asmuch church history and
Christian doctrine from manywriters and scholars of LDS

(09:47):
faith, but also writers andscholars from Jewish backgrounds
and Catholic backgrounds andIslamic backgrounds and people
in and out of the church, and Ithink I grew a lot as a person
and came to let go of some ofthe beliefs that I held that
were not as Christlike as Ithink that I would like to be,

(10:12):
and came to hold more beliefsthat are, I think, in line with
what God wants us to do, whichis to love everyone and treat
everyone as a child of God wantsus to do, which is to love
everyone and treat everyone as achild of God.
And so I did a lot ofdeconstructing and questioning
everything I believed and then alot of reconstructing, and that

(10:33):
process, I think, is going tolook really different for a lot
of people.
Deconstruction is a moment whenyou stop and look at every
little piece of your faith,every belief that you have, and
question it and really put itunder a microscope and do I like
this, Do I believe this?
And take everything apart, andthe reconstruction process is

(10:55):
going to look very different foreveryone, but for me it was a
lot of putting back the reallybig things that mattered the
most to me.
The really big things for mewere my faith in Jesus Christ as
my savior and my belief in himand understanding in him as both

(11:22):
a deity and a real historicalhuman being who lived.
Other things that really grewfor me were my faith in heavenly
parents, and I came to knowHeavenly Mother a little bit,
which was an incredible journeyto go on, to go on and just

(11:46):
really feeling the depths oftheir love for me in a way that
I never had before.
There were some things that Iset aside as not as important,
there were a couple of thingsthat I let go of, but what was
beautiful to me in thereconstruction process of my
faith was how much strongerthose pieces that I put back

(12:08):
were, and and the foundation ofmy faith became, um, my faith in
my savior, Jesus Christ, and myfaith in a heavenly father and
heavenly mother who love me verymuch and who are rooting for me
and helping me all along theway.

(12:28):
And before I mean, I had atestimony before deconstructing,
but I feel like my testimonybefore deconstructing was really
like my foundation of mytestimony was the fact that I
was born into the faith, which Idon't think that's necessarily

(12:49):
a bad thing, no, but it just itdidn't stand up to scrutiny when
I started to take things apart.
You know, just because thetraditions of our fathers
sometimes they're good andsometimes they're not, and
sometimes they're just neutraland I that that wasn't a sturdy

(13:11):
enough foundation for me.
But when I started to rebuildmy faith with um, with the words
of Christ at the center andwith a belief in heavenly
parents who love me at at thecenter um it I, I really grew a
lot in in my testimony.

So so can I ask you real quick, uh, and and you
don't have to answer if youdon't want to I just I am always
curious to know, like um, twothings one, what kind of like
put you on that path of wantingto really, like, take your
testimony apart and look at allof the little pieces?
And two, what were some ofthose pieces that you were kind

(13:47):
of like, do I really believethis?
I don't really know.
Or is this something that I,you know, like need to
reconfigure or reconstruct?
So so yeah, kind of, what gotyou started and and where, what
did that process look like ofactually taking it apart?
And where, what did thatprocess look like of actually
taking it apart.

Yeah, I think it kind of the ball really got
started in 2020.
Just things got so incrediblydivisive then about I mean in
politics and society, and I feellike we became much more
polarized than we were before2020.
But just saying somethingbecause we were already pretty
polarized up to that point.

Plus, we were isolated, right, we were all
separated.

And we had nothing to do but be online
Right All the time.

Uh-huh, yeah, yeah, all the time, yeah, so I
feel like seeing seeing just howpeople interacted with each
other made me kind of.
It gave me pause, um, but thething that I think really um
turned that snowball into anavalanche and it all came down
was in like 2021 ish.

(15:02):
Um, right as I was startinggrad school, right after we had
moved to Phoenix, I had madefriends who were part of the
LGBTQ community.
I started to question whether Ifit in the LGBTQ community.
I started to um learn moreabout disability, disability

(15:27):
rights, um learned more aboutjust a lot of things.
I started questioning things inin the church, a lot with the,
the LGBTQ community and thequestions there about um just
how how our church views LGBTQpeople and, um, how I felt

(15:52):
personally like our heavenlyparents view LGBTQ people.
So that was the thing that kindof triggered it and um kind of
started everything and afterthat it was well, what about
heavenly mother and what aboutthe family proclamation and what
about church history stuff andwhat about pioneers and some of

(16:17):
the history of the pioneers andthings that happened as we
crossed the plains?
What about polygamy?
What about?
And itamy, what about the raceban in our church?
And it just the whatabouts was.
Yeah, yeah, it started withLGBTQ stuff and just all of the

(16:38):
whatabouts came down.

And I'm sure it's probably hard.
You know, when you say thechurch, there's like two,
there's like two thoughts thatpeople have it's the church as a
culture which is flawed,greatly, right.
And then the church is thegospel, which is not right.
But then in, in between, youhave practices, right, like

(17:01):
practices that the gospelinterlocks in the culture, takes
and does their thing, and thenthere's muddiness.
At least that's how I've seenit, right.

Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's hard because there'sthere's a whole lot of, there's
a whole lot of gray and there'sa whole lot of complexity there
.
I don't know that it'snecessarily accurate or fair
necessarily to divide it so,half and half in there is the
church and then there's thedoctrine, or there's the culture

(17:32):
and then there's the gospel,because they play on each other
and they change.
And how do you decide when aprophet is talking as a prophet
or when a prophet is justtalking as themselves, and how
do we make those decisions?
And there's a lot of complexitythere and I think, I think it's

(17:54):
fair to give just to say thatthat's an important conversation
to have about which is whichand are they the same sometimes
and are they different sometimes?
And yeah, but but yeah, thatthat did make it, that that did
play a really crucial role or Iguess, was a really really big

(18:15):
feature in all of that of likeum, the race ban, for example,
like was, was that doctrine atone point?
Was it not doctrine?
Do I believe that that washanded down from God?
I don't Do other people Maybe.
Why might people think one wayor the other?

(18:37):
And that's all part of thedeconstruction process too, is
looking at those lines betweenthe church and the gospel, or
the culture and the doctrine,and we're not the only faith

(18:58):
where people do that and talkabout the differences between
them.
We see that all the time in.
I mean, catholicism is onewhere that comes up often, and
that's just Judaism, islam, allof it.
Yeah, anyway, sorry.

No, I appreciate you answering that and being
being so transparent, cause Ithink it's an important thing
for us to bring up.
You know, like it's one thingjust to be like, oh, I
deconstruct my testimony, butthen to be like, yeah, no, these
are things that I didn't knowabout or I wasn't sure about, or
I thought I was sure about, andthen I'm like, wait, how can I
love what you said about?

(19:30):
You didn't feel like yourtestimony could stand up to
scrutiny, right.
So like it was a testimony thatyou needed to get you to where
you were.
But now that you're in a newposition in your life, can it be
solid enough to stand up toscrutiny?
And not that you have to proveit to anybody, but do you feel
safe inside yourself to defendit, even if you don't understand

(19:51):
everything?
Right?

Yeah, okay, yeah, exactly it's.
I think our testimonies aresupposed to evolve and change
and I think if you're at a pointwhere you have arrived at your
testimony and you feel likeyou're done, you probably
haven't started yet.

Or you're about to have a big shock.

Or that.
But yeah, if you feel likeyou're done and your testimony
like it's cooked, it's done.
I've arrived.
There's probably more work leftto be done.

So how did your husband um, I mean like was, did
he know what was going on?
Did you talk to him about thesequestions that you had?
And where was, where was he atin that?

Yeah, I mean I I talked to him a fair bit about
some of the questions that Iwas having.
It wasn't a regular topic ofconversation, though.
A lot of what I was thinkingand considering was happening
internally.
I did a lot of reading, a lotof books, or, I guess, listening

(20:59):
to a lot of audio books,listening to a lot of podcasts
and doing a lot of research.
Yeah, it was very much aninternal thing and I think that
that was right for me and for us.
In the moment, we do talk aboutthings on occasion.

(21:21):
It's not like we don't talkabout our faith with each other.
We do have gospel discussionsand things together, but it I,
for a few years there, did quitea lot of um, quite a lot of
internal thinking and ponderingand writing in my journal and
and everything Um, yeah, so it'snot like he was unaware, but it

(21:44):
was very much a internal thingfor me.
Yeah, we all processinformation differently and
that's how I, that's how Iprocess.

So how did you, how did you deconstruct and
still, I mean, look at it from agospel perspective versus a
secular perspective, or like,how did you navigate those, that
water?
Because, especially like whenyou get into some of the topics

(22:17):
you got into, it's easy to godown, like to go down rabbit
holes and then you might not beable to come back out of them.
You know what I mean to go downrabbit holes and then you might
not be able to come back out ofthem.

You know what I mean.
Yeah, I mean I.
I don't know that it'snecessarily fair to say that,
like if you go deconstruct or ifyou go research about a topic
that you're never coming back,um, certainly, there are some
people who who start todeconstruct and their journey of
faith takes them in a directionthat, um is, is not where maybe

(22:48):
their family members might wantthem to be, that being staying
in the church or staying on thepath or or whatever.
But, um, as I was talking,telling you guys before the show
started, um, I, I, I don'tnecessarily like to use the
language of like lost andtalking about people who may

(23:09):
leave, because our heavenlyparents know us and love us so,
so deeply.
I don't think that it would bepossible for any of us to be
lost from them.
They know where we are, theyknow where we're going, they
know what our journey is, theyknow where we're going, they
know what our journey is, and Ithink we, as members of the

(23:31):
church, probably give ourselvesa lot of unnecessary stress in
worrying about the people whohave gone astray or left or lost
, it's okay, god has them.
And, um, something that Ilearned, um in in my studies to

(23:53):
become a doctor of audiology isthat when someone tells you that
they're not ready for something, they're not ready and that's
okay.
And I need to take people, Ineed to take my patients at face
value and believe them whenthey tell me where they are.
Um, and my response to thatusually it's in the case of

(24:14):
telling people you have hearingloss and you need hearing aids,
and the comeback is no, I don't,and no, I won't get hearing.
And then, and in that case,even though I think that I am
right, um, it is not the healthyor supportive thing to do to
look at them and tell them thatthey're wrong or try and change
their mind.
It is the supportive and lovingthing to say, okay, that's just

(24:38):
fine, I'll be here when youneed me and leave it at that.
And that is the only way to besupportive of people who have
been lost or gone astray orwhatever it's.
It's just to be where you areand be okay with where they are
and and just let that be okay.
I'm sorry, that was like awhole tangent.

No, you answered it, so I guess my next question
would be at what point did youhit the bottom and start to
reconstruct Like what did thatlook like?

for years, for for I mean, yeah, like a year
and a half, two years, it wasLGBTQ stuff and um, family
proclamation, heavenly mother,the race band, the pioneers, the
churches, like all of thethings.
And I finally hit this pointwhere I kind of got to the
bottom, where I like didn't haveany other questions left and
the only questions left were isdo I believe that God is real
and do I believe in Jesus Christ?

(25:53):
And if I do, in what way?
Because I mean, we're not theonly Christian denominations,
there are lots of ways tobelieve in Christ and in God.
And so I finally hit that pointand I very briefly that was, I
think the shortest thing ofdeconstruction was thinking and
pondering on that one, and thosetwo felt right to me, and so

(26:16):
those two things were the firsttwo things to be put back as my
foundation, because they werethe things that just sat well in
my heart.
And so I put those two thingsback first and then I started to
kind of put other things backon.

(26:36):
There are lots of those thingsthat I kind of took off the
shelf and set aside.
Shelf and set aside the momentwhen your shelf breaks is a very
common thing that's discussedwithin the sphere of
deconstruction, especiallywithin Mormon spheres, and I

(26:58):
kind of took all of those thingsdown and set them aside and I
haven't ignored them and they'restill there.
And there are a number of thosethings that I have strong
opinions about, none of which Iwill be sharing here.
There are some of those thingsthat I may disagree with or have

(27:20):
different opinions on and maynot share the same opinion as
the people sitting next to me inthe pews, but I'm okay with
that.
But I did take many things likethe race ban, for example.
I don't think for me personally, I don't think that that was
something that came from God.

(27:41):
I'm not going to tell someoneelse that they can't believe
that or that they can't believewhatever it is that they believe
about, about how that happened,but what I can say regarding
that is that I believe that godloves all of their children,
that our heavenly mother andfather love everyone equally,

(28:03):
and that was something I wasable to take from what I had
deconstructed and place that onlike back back into my
reconstruction of God loves allof us, everyone, and so I guess
I just kind of started to pickup the pieces of the things that
had been pulled apart anddeconstructed apart and

(28:28):
deconstructed and many of thosethings are still there, like I
had said, but I took the thingsthat were good and that sat well
with me and started to buildthose things back up.
So, yeah, and like I said, Istill have things that I
disagree with people on, but I'mokay with that, that's okay.
I don't think we're, I don'tthink we are a stronger church
or stronger people when we areentirely homogenous and

(28:49):
incapable of sitting on the pewsnext to people who we may
disagree with, even on bigthings, even on church things,
even on doctrine.
That's okay, that's how it'sgoing to go.
We're all at church becausewe're all trying to learn and
come closer to God and grow as acommunity, because we all know
the right things, say the rightthings, do the right things in

(29:10):
the same way.
That's okay.
Yeah.

Yeah, I totally agree with you.

Yeah, so I have a very similar experience to you
, marlisa, actually.

Yeah.

When I was, when I was the Bishop, I had a
couple come to my I was a brandnew Bishop bishop couple came in
and met with me and theybrought up all these concerns
and, um, I don't know, I don'tknow if you remember when the
church came out with all thoseessays and it talks, it talked a
lot about these kind of topics,education system because they

(29:43):
were trying to, like, just clearout all the skeletons out of
the closet and they're like thisis all the stuff, right?
Yeah, and I'd never heard of itbefore and they came and met
with me and they're like we havesome serious concerns here.
So I went home that night and Iread every single essay.

Oh, like the gospel doctrine or the gospel
topics essays.

They're on the church's website.
So, yeah, they talk about, likeyou know, the different first
visions, blacks in thepriesthood, um, you know the
nature of God, things like thatand that really threw me.
It really threw me and I wentinto I had a faith crisis as the
bishop and, um, and I had to Ididn't I never used the term

(30:28):
deconstruct and reconstruct, butthat's exactly what I did.
I had to break down mytestimony into the most basic
elements, just like you did, andI had to put them back together
and, and, um, that was a bigchange.
That was a turning point in mylife, just kind of like it was
for you, and one, one of thethings that really helped me.

(30:50):
I actually I wrote a book aboutit, but I haven't published.
I haven't published it yet, butone of the things I found later
is there's a talk and youmight've heard it.
It's from Lawrence Corbridge ofthe 70.
It's called Stand Forever.

I don't know that I have, and he it's.

It's one of my favorite talks of all time, and
what he he calls um, the piecesof the like, different doctrines
of the gospel.
He calls them primary andsecondary questions, and the
primary questions are the mostimportant things.
They're like is god real?
Is jesus christ the son of god?
Was joseph smith a prophet?

(31:29):
Right and um, is the churchtrue, like the big, the big
marvels, right and then he andthen he's like everything else
is a secondary question and itpales by comparison in or in
importance.
It's not that it's notimportant, it's just that these
things are the most importantthings and that's you know, what

(31:50):
you and I have figured outgoing through our journey.

But it's just fascinating because I went
through a similar thing yeah, Idon't think I've heard that talk
before, but I have heard thatlanguage of like primary and
secondary questions and, yeah, Ithink it's.
I think it's an important.
It's an important thing thatpeople find the things that are

(32:13):
primary for them and what isprimary to their testimony and
then, you know, build thosethings back up from from there.
And, like I had said beforeabout like people being lost or
whatever it's, I think we needto be okay when people um,

(32:34):
reconstruct and don't land inthe same place that they were
before.
Some people are going todeconstruct and reconstruct and
land right back where they were,and some people are going to
deconstruct and reconstruct andend up in a completely different
place.
And I think, like I had saidbefore, we need to be okay,

(32:56):
knowing that God has them andthat everything's going to be
okay.
We don't need to stress whenpeople land in other places.

You know, since doing this show, one of the
things that I have really beenable to come to terms with is
the fact that worst casescenario, it makes a really
great story, like when thing,you know, like when you, I mean,
we've had.
Like Dusty Smith, he walkedaway, he was an apostate of the
church for 26 years and like tothe point where he was

(33:24):
apologizing to people that hehad baptized on his mission
years.
And like to the point where hewas apologizing to people that
he had baptized on his missionand say, like he I mean, he went
so far out and that he hadthese amazing miraculous
experiences that brought himback.
And when it brought him backafter 26 years of fighting
against the church, he had awhole different perspective,

(33:46):
where one he was moreknowledgeable, right, so he
could have the conversationswith people.
He knew what people felt liketoo, which I think sometimes you
just don't.
You don't know until you get inthe trenches with others what
their perspective is.
You can guess, you can imagine,but you don't actually know
until you're like down and dirtywith them, you're like going

(34:07):
through it, how big of a deal itis.
And so I think that, heavenlyfather, I just love the
scripture that talks about howhe can work all things to our
good.
And you are right, like it maynot be, even in this lifetime,
that they come back to thegospel or um, you know, like it,
it may be a whole differentpath, but if it's a path that
brings them closer to God in thegospel or um, you know, like it

(34:28):
, it may be a whole differentpath, but if it's a path that
brings them closer to God in thevery end, ultimately, that's
that's the most important thingis that they feel that
relationship with their fatherin Jesus Christ and that they
learn of him and that they, theycan be with him again one day,
if that's what they really want.

(34:49):
Cause we, we forget aboutchoice sometimes, right, we
forget, like this wholeexperience is to come to make
decisions and then to choosewhere we want to be in the
afterlife.

Our choice is overrated.

I know, right, some people are going to be
really genuinely their happiestnot in the presence of God, like
some people, just they're justthat's what they're going to be
most comfortable with, based ontheir uh, their decision, and
not that they're going to hellor anything.
I'm just saying like in general, like we talk about the three
different kingdoms, so maybethey are just going to be the

(35:20):
most comfortable in one of, youknow, one of the other kingdoms
or something like that, and Ithink that that's okay.
Like heavenly father stillloves him, he's going to, he can
go be with them, you know, andand he can talk to them, and
we're going to get everythingthat that we need, um, in the
next life and every opportunityto have that, because heavenly

(35:44):
father loves us so much.
You know, like none of us aregoing to be disappointed.
I don't think anyway.

I, yeah I I want to back up a little bit.
I have two people who I want totalk about briefly, who I think
do a really excellent job of umjust talking about their faith
and where they are and beingokay with people's journeys.
The first is Charlie Bird.

(36:10):
He is a gay man, gay member ofthe church.
He's married to a man and he isstill an actively participating
member, so far as he is able tobe.
He knows many people who haveleft the church and that for

(36:31):
them, that is the healthiestplace for them to be and that
that's where they feel they needto be.
He knows many people who havestayed in the church and that
that's where they feel like theyneed to be and that that is the
healthiest place for them.
And he gets crap so much of itfrom both the people who have
left for how could you possiblysay that it's okay for people to

(36:53):
stay and from people who stayof how could you possibly say
that it's okay for people toleave?
And he gets so much crap fromboth the LGBTQ community and the
people who are still members ofthe church for saying it's okay
to let people go where it isbest and healthiest for them to

(37:14):
be, and that's not going to bethe same place for everyone.
If Charlie Bird ever happens tohear this episode and I
misquoted him or misrepresentedhim in any way, feel free to
correct me.
The other person who I thinkdoes a really good job of this
is Richard Rohr.
He is a Franciscan, he's aCatholic and he's absolutely

(37:36):
amazing.
He's a Christian, theologianand, oh my goodness, he has
quite a lot of criticism for theCatholic Church.
He calls out the CatholicChurch on quite a lot of
criticism for the Catholicchurch.
He calls out the Catholicchurch on on quite a lot of
things, many of the same typesof things that, um, our church
gets crap about.
Um, and he's he's willing tocall out his church on things

(37:59):
that he thinks are wrong or not.
Okay, um, he also is still aCatholic and he's still a
Franciscan and he stands firmlyin his belief of Christ, even
while being able to say thesethings that the Catholic Church
did were wrong and naming them,I I reading the words of Richard

(38:26):
Rohr um did a lot for me inhelping me decide that, um, I
needed to stay and that for me,right now, that that was what
was right for me at the moment,um, and I am completely okay
with people deciding that whereis healthiest and happiest and
best for them is outside of thechurch.

(38:47):
For some people, that isprobably true and that's okay,
but for me, I had decided thatstaying was where I needed to be
personally, and reading thewords of Richard Rohr and seeing
the way that he was able to isable to talk about the Catholic

(39:08):
church and things that hedislikes or disagrees with, and
stand fully behind the words ofChrist and do everything he can
to be a good person and standstand with Christ and try and
embody the life of Christ, um,that really did a lot for me in
showing me that I can holdbeliefs that are different from

(39:30):
the people who are sitting nextto me in the pews, and I can
stay and that can be okay and Iwon't be betraying myself, any
parts of myself or others bydoing so, um, in the same way
that people who may leave can doso without betraying themselves
or others.
It's okay to let people'sjourneys be where they are.

So take us back to okay.
So you're in the process ofreally reconstructing and
figuring out like these keyelements and stuff, and I know
you've mentioned music earlier.
So where do we start seeingthese things come together?

Yeah, so I'm a musician, I'm a pianist, I love
the piano, I have been writingmusic my whole life and as I hit
this point of getting intocollege and things, I was still
playing the piano, but I was notwas still playing the piano,
but I was not writing musicnearly as much as I was before.
Uh, in my undergrad.

(40:32):
And then I got to grad school,which was about the same time
that all of this deconstructionhappened.
And as all of thatdeconstruction started happening
and the reconstruction washappening on on both ends, um,
it's like the.
It was like the windows ofheaven opened and I just it was

(40:54):
like song after song after songafter song, um, and I was able
to write um just multiple songs.
Um, some of them just pianosolos, some of them words with
musics, musics, gosh.
Some of them words with music.
Um, some of them were rewritesof other songs from the church.

(41:17):
Um, a few of them that werelike rewrites were um follow the
prophet changed from Follow theProphet to Follow the Spirit.
With words about following, Imean the spirit, but like
examples of leaders throughoutthe church, throughout history

(41:38):
Eve, nephi, deborah, emma Smith,mary the mother of God.
Just lots of people from lotsof places and how they followed
the spirit in their journey.
Cause, following the prophets,great Neato.
But I wanted something that alsotalked about following the

(41:59):
spirit, and it's a killer tune.
It's such a good tune I had tokeep it.
It's not that I inherentlydislike the other song, but
there was that one, and Put yourShoulder to the Wheel was
another one where I added likechange some things to be a
little bit more modern and talka little bit more about, like
building each other up incommunity, which I think is

(42:21):
something that we need to focuson, because we are not really
like wheels across, like theplanes anymore.
So it's history, but it's notas applicable.
And another rewrite that I didthat meant a lot to me was a
rewrite of I'll go where youwant me to go to, I'll stay
where you want me to stay,because for me that felt right

(42:45):
at the time to stay so, and itstill does.
I'm still an activeparticipating member.

So, um, that's my favorite and I would love to
hear just a little like sneakpeek of that Like could we,
could you share some lyrics?

I would be happy to share lyrics.
Yes, um, let me.
Um.
I will be reading instead ofsinging it.
Like I said, I'll stay whereyou want me to stay.
They may not say what I thoughtthey'd say or see what I know,

(43:33):
I see.
They may not hear what I wantthem to hear, but I'll stay
where you want me to stay.
I'll stay where you want me tostay.
O God, close to thy holy son,I'll turn to thee on bended knee
.
Second verse it may not be whereI want to be, this thing you

(43:56):
have asked of me, but trusting OGod, with my hand in yours,
They may not see what my Saviorsees or know how lone the path
can be, so I'll humbly reverencethee El Shaddai and know you've
a plan for me.

(44:17):
.
One sacred night, my saviorknelt and drinking the bitter
cup, he suffered for me asacrifice.
He stayed where you asked himto stay.

(44:38):
O God, so trusting thy sacredson With my hand in his, with
Christ, I'll say not my will,but thine be done.
.

I'll stay where you want me to stay.
Wow that.

third verse was so powerful.

I'm sorry.
Oh, my goodness.
No, it's just so beautiful LikeI can like, like, as you're
reading it, I'm like singing itin my head and I'm just like, oh
, I can't wait to hear it, Ican't wait to hear the whole
thing.
And you are going to try to geta video link or something for
for us with that song that we'llbe able to add to the

(45:32):
description, or maybe towardsthe end of the podcast or
something.

But I'm going to try and get a try and get a
recording done of that one, yeah, and then if people want it for
themselves, they can, I, I'llhave it.
I'll have it in the, in thebook of songs that I'm doing.

So it's so beautiful and I love the message
because I think you're right,like when we talked on the phone
a little bit about that.
Um, so often people think thatwe have to keep leaving to grow,
like it means go change and godo this and go to that.
But sometimes heavenly fatherreally just wants us to chill.
He's like I have you here forthis reason and I need you to

(46:13):
stay in this for a time, youknow, or forever, maybe, I don't
know.
But, um, I personally love itand I I feel like I was like, oh
, scott's going to love that too, because Scott's book is the
faith to stay, you know, and Ithink sometimes it's it's such a
it's a harder thing to staythan it is to leave.

(46:34):
Leaving sometimes can be easy.
Sometimes I'm not saying always, but just for me.
I know I've had those momentswhere sometimes staying is is so
hard, it's so hard and it'salso the best place for me to be
, so I stay, thank you.

It's just beautiful.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
That was one of those that cameat a time that I really needed
it In, just where I hit a pointof like do I stay, do I go?
Neither feels right, neitherfeels wrong.
What do I do?

(47:12):
And at the time I felt called tostay, and so that's kind of
where it came from.
I also I had felt very calledto go before.
I felt called to go away fromIdaho and go to Utah and go to
school.
I felt called to go on to gradschool.
I felt called to, you know, go,do all of these things that God

(47:35):
has called the pioneers to goacross the country.
Well, to a different country itwas Mexico at the time that
they got there and like, calledthe Israelites to go, wander in
the wilderness, and God willcall us to go sometimes.
But I wanted that that counterthat other side of the coin of

(47:55):
sometimes God will call us tostay and that that is a struggle
worth honoring and that that issomething worth writing about.
So, because going is hard andsometimes we can be in this
moment where we're like allright, I'll go where you want me
, I'll go, I'll do it, I'll goand like wherever you want me,

(48:18):
I'll do it.
Um, but sometimes God is like,yeah, I need you here, like I
need you to chill, I need you tofind a way to settle in and be
where you are and be present inwhere this is and find the
lesson you're supposed to learnhere.
Sometimes, um, it's I mean, weall hit points like that in our

(48:41):
lives right like, okay, I'mready to go to whatever job you
want me to, I'll go where youwant me and god's like, no,
you're gonna stay in this crappyjob for a while or I'll go to
whatever state you want.
I'll go wherever in the worldyou want me to.
Wherever it is, nope.
I need you to stay right whereyou are, and that can be really
hard, and I think that's astruggle worth worth honoring.
So when we feel called to stay,yeah love it thank you we're

(49:03):
kindred spirits.

We're Lisa, yay you wrote that you wrote that
song that that's.
That is the title of my bookfaith to stay.
That's like just crazy.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have that on my
bookshelf.
Somewhere my dad gives me abook, for he gives all of us a
book, a churchy book for forChristmas every year.
That's his thing.
I'm pretty sure I have yourbook on my bookshelf and I'm so
sorry I haven't had a moment toget to it yet.

We don't have his book yet.
I haven't.
I haven't published it yet, soit's not mine.

I'm sorry.

There must be one guy a similar name, there
must be one with a similar name,that might be, I will send you
a pre-release digital copy ifyou're interested in reading it,
because our stories are similar, I would love that yeah, I'm so
sorry.

Now I feel really silly.
I must know you can't read thebook.

I'm so sorry look, it's a great title if
someone else has somethingsimilar, you're good we can
still be friends okay thank you,I'm sorry for shoving my foot
in my mouth.

I will attempt to pull it out you're good, you
have another foot, it's fineokay I've had to be careful with
it if I've only got the onemore foot to use.

So you said that you have, um, that you kind of
have like this download of justlike musical inspiration and
things like that, how, how doyou feel like that has helped
you to reconstruct yourtestimony, like having that
access directly from heavenlyfather to really be inspired to,
to write new music and rewriteold music?

Yeah, um, I I feel like that getting to that
point getting to that pointhappened because of my
deconstruction.
I was kind of at a block,almost both in my testimony but

(51:08):
also in writing things musically.
I just had hit a block and Iwasn't able to get to a point
where that was cleared and Icould feel really spiritually
connected through music until Ihad deconstructed.
And then I so I grew up inYukon in the middle of nowhere.

(51:32):
There was a ditch by our houseand we would flood the flood the
yard, sometimes with the waterfrom the ditch and on occasion,
especially in the spring, you'dhave to like pull the weeds and
mud and sticks and crap out ofthe water off of the gate before
you can pull it up and like theflood water comes, comes.

(51:59):
I feel like my deconstructionwas a bit like that, that it was
like it was stopped and itwasn't until I started pulling
out all of the pieces that thewater was able to flow.
And then I was like the heavensopened up and I was able to at
that bottom point of okay, wheream I?
What am I doing?
What do I believe?
Is there a God?
Do I care?
If there's a God, what do I?
You know, at that very, verybottom point, that that's once

(52:21):
everything had been cleared,that's when I was able to start
rebuilding, and that's where Ifound that connection of like,
no, I do believe that I have aheavenly mother and heavenly
father who love me and, um, I,yeah, and and that that I do
believe that I am, you know, adaughter of theirs, daughter of

(52:42):
God.
So that was, and after that,everything else just came and it
was, yeah, it was a reallyamazing moment, and I hope that
I don't sound like I am boastingabout myself.
That's not my intent, um, but Ithink I think artists of all

(53:04):
kinds musicians, authors, um,painters you know, actual
artists, um will will understandthat moment too, of like
hitting that moment where youjust feel in flow and everything
just kind of comes.
Yeah, so that was a neat moment.

Yeah, it's awesome you had that opportunity
.

Thank you, it sounds like you did too With
your book.

Like you said, everybody's got their journey
and ours just happened to besimilar.
Yeah, so, yeah, so.
Is there any?
As we wrap up, marlise, isthere anything you'd like to
share?
Any final thoughts you'd liketo leave as a takeaway?

Like my final testimony takeaway, whatever you
feel so inspired to share, yeah, okay.
Final testimony takeaway is Beokay with the journey, be okay
with your journey, be okay withothers.
Journey.
Try your best to stop worryingso much about the journey.

(54:19):
The journey is the point.
It's okay to deconstruct, it'sokay to reconstruct, it's okay
to land wherever is safest andhealthiest and best for you and
wherever you feel called to go.
Go, yeah, and and just I hopethat people land in a place that

(54:41):
is healthy and safe for themand that we all can find ways to
be okay in our own journeys,okay Asking questions and okay
when others ask questions, andthat, I guess, my personal
testimony is um, I'm going to bevery intentional with my

(55:01):
language here.
I don't like to use the word no.
There's very little that I know, um, but I believe
wholeheartedly that, um, everysingle person, as they are,
built as they as they are, ismade by God, by a loving

(55:22):
Heavenly Father and HeavenlyMother who love us so much, who
built us as we are becausethat's how we needed to be, who
put us on this earth when andwhere we are, because that's
where we were supposed to be, onthis earth when and where we
are, because that's where wewere supposed to be, and that
there are lessons for us tolearn from that and lessons for
us to teach others from that,and that I don't know.

(55:44):
I just I truly believe thatwe're all loved by our heavenly
parents.
So, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen, Thank you.

I love that so much and I think I think the um,
the easiest thing to do whenyou disagree is just to love.
Yeah Right, like it just.
It comes down to that Likewe're not going to figure it all
out, we're not all going to beright, we're not all going to be
wrong, but we can all love eachother and that's the only way

(56:16):
that we're ever going to be ableto like, have any type of
continuity and and unity and allthat, all that good stuff is
just to share love and just, youknow, pray that everyone can
have exactly what they need whenthey need it from heavenly
father, and then it can all beused to their good yeah, I think
one thing you kind of taught me, and through this podcast, is I

(56:41):
need that more empathy.

You, I think you , going through your journey,
you've learned to have a lotmore empathy for people in their
journey, right, and I thinkthat's something that we could
all use more of, honestly.
So thanks for sharing that.

Thank you.
Yeah, I agree.
I think that's.
The biggest thing that I havelearned from my deconstruction
is that empathy is crucial.
It's key.
You have to honor where peopleare and yeah, yeah, love is
empathy.
You gotta have it.

Well, you, you are just like okay.
Sometimes this happens on theseshows, where we have guests
that just leave my cheekshurting because I'm just smiling
so much.
And that is you.
You are just a person who makespeople's cheeks hurt.
It's wonderful and I love it somuch.
I have really enjoyed havingyou on as a guest today and I'm

(57:47):
so looking forward to hearingyour music.
Tell everybody real quick, andwe'll share links for you too,
but tell us, where do we findthings?
Where do we find you when?
How do we get in contact ifpeople are looking for your,
your resources, your talents,your music, everything else?

Yeah, of course , um.
So at the moment, the thingthat I have, um, it's a book of
all of my songs.
It's um piano solos.
Some of them are originals,some of them are medleys.
It is also rewrites of songs,the I'll stay where you want me
to stay, and some of the others.

(58:27):
I did a rewrite in English ofthe Magnificat, which is a
classic Christian hymn.
Yeah, there's a few otherthings in there.
I threw in one or two poemsthat I just couldn't figure out
how to put to music, but thename of that book that I have
released on Amazon, it isPraises a collection of hymns

(58:51):
and poems.
So if you want to find it, youcan find it by that name.
Thank you very much for puttingthe link out.
Um, I am a big believer inlowest barrier to entry possible
, so I'm going to list it for aslow of a price as Amazon will
let me, and you can get it in ahard copy, a soft copy or

(59:11):
eKindle.
So whatever you want.
I don't really have.
I do have an Instagram, but I Ijust truly am friends with like
four people, and two of thoseare like my mom and dad, so if
you search for me on Instagram,you're not going to really find
much on there, but you can findmy book just on on Amazon, so
thank you.

Well, and I know when we spoke on the phone, my
favorite thing in the whole wideworld is networking.
I love it.
It is so fun.
I love connecting peopletogether, and so one of the
things that you are always opento correct is connecting with
other musicians.
Oh yeah, people, to be able tosing your songs, you need people
who can help write, you know,additional pieces and

(59:51):
instruments and things like thatto your music, and so anyone
who wants to collaborate withyou, what's the best way for
them to get in contact?
Should we share an email orsomething?
Do they want them to comethrough us and then we can reach
out and give you guys personalinformation?

Marlisa Wootton (01:00:09):
I've got about 10 different emails.
I'm trying to decide.
I will pick one.
I'll let you know which email.
But yeah, if people, if peoplewant to reach out through email
for a collab in music, in or artin any way, um, yeah, hit me up
on email.
So, and I will let you knowwhich email.

(01:00:29):
That will be All right, we'lladd it.

Scott Brandley (01:00:32):
We'll add it.

Sounds good.

Well, thanks, marlisa, for being on.
This has been awesome.

Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been wonderful.
You two are great Well thankyou.

Alisha Coakley (01:00:44):
We feel the same about you.
I just feel so blessed.
We have the best guests wereally do.
Scott and I are so spoiled.
We just get some amazing peoplethat we get to connect with in
life.

It is cool.
It's a fun treat to be able tobe on this side and get to meet
so many cool, different people.

Seems like a pretty cool gig.
I'm kind of jealous.
Maybe I should have gone intopodcasting instead of audiology.

No, I'm just kidding, I love audiology.

I couldn't.
As I said it, I was like Ican't, I couldn't let that go.

Especially if you're someone who likes to read
the comments.
Sometimes it's a little brutal.
Oh yeah, no, I can't.
Sometimes that happens, so ifyou don't want that, just don't.
Just don't worry aboutpodcasting.

I'm sure you guys have seen um back to the
future and that thing that MartyMcFly's dad said.
I just don't know if I couldtake that kind of rejection.
Whatever, I'll stick toaudiology.
Where people have an issue withme, they can do their darndest
to try and find, like thewebsite where you review
audiologists there you go.

Yeah.
Well, thank you again, marlisa,we really have enjoyed having
you on here and thank you to ourlisteners.
Guys, thanks for putting upwith you.
Know I'm going to say me I Italk too much.
I'm sorry, but I'm so glad thatyou guys are here and that
you're listening.
And be sure that you guys doyour five second missionary work
.
Share Marlisa's episode withothers, go check out her music,

(01:02:20):
leave a comment for her, let herknow what you guys liked most
about this episode and how yourtestimony was affected.
So we would love to hear all ofthe good things and be able to
help Marlisa with getting hermusic out to the world to spread
some more light.

Yeah, and if any of you have a story like
Marlisa, you'd like to share iton the show, go to
latterdaylightscom and we willget you on and you can share
your story and your light withothers, absolutely.

All right, guys.
Well, that's all we have foryou this Sunday.
Be sure to tune in again nextSunday for another episode of
Latter-day Lights.

And until then we hope you guys have a
wonderful week, awesome.
Take care everybody.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Journey to Divine Testimonial Reconstruction: Marlisa Wootton's Story - Latter-Day Lights