When Your Spouse Comes Out - From Heartbreak to Hope: Melissa Rollins' Story - Latter-Day Lights - LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Episode Transcript
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Scott Brandley (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Alisha Coakley (00:02):
And I'm Alisha Coakley.
Every member of the church hasa story to share, one that can
instill faith, invite growth andinspire others.

On today's episode, we're going to hear how
a shocking secret led one womanto realize that, even in her
anger towards God the Father,she could still trust in her
brother Jesus Christ.
Welcome to Latter-day Lights.
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Latter-day

(00:37):
Lights.
We're so glad you're here withus today and we're really
excited to introduce to you ourspecial guest, Melissa Rollins.
Melissa, how are you doingtoday?

Melissa Rollins (00:44):
I'm really good .

Thank you.
Thank you so much for coming on.
So guests or well, not guests,sorry listeners Melissa was a
referral.
I had another guest on the showand after we recorded Teresa
and she said you have to get intouch with Melissa.
And so she connected us onFacebook and I'm so glad that

(01:05):
she did because Melissa's storyI had just had the best
conversation with you on thephone.
We talked about so many amazingthings and just the fact that
you're here and you're likedoing this and you have the
faith that you have witheverything that you've gone
through, like just like.
I feel so honored to be able to, to have met and to have heard
your story already a little bit,but super excited for everybody

(01:27):
else to hear it because it'sjust wow, it's just a whirlwind
of a story.
But we're not going to startwith that, we're going to start
with you a little bit.
Do you want to maybe share withour listeners just a little bit
about who Melissa is?

Sure, so I grew up in Arizona but I've lived
here in Utah since I was about19 years old.
I served a mission to Porto,portugal.
I have two boys.
They are 20 and 22.
And I got a degree inrecreation therapy from the

(02:03):
University of Utah and I amdoing some divorce coaching on
the side as well, as I wentthrough a divorce and it it it
took me a minute to kind of getmy footing and to find my
happiness in life after divorce.
As far as me, as a recreationtherapist, I highly believe in

(02:26):
finding things that are yourpassions, things you enjoy.
I really enjoy going toconcerts.
I go to a lot of concerts and Ialso really like to travel, so
kind of up that ante during mysingle time and just kind of
enjoyed, enjoyed that beentrying to enjoy this chapter of
my life.

I've never heard of recreation therapy.
What is it just like?
What it sounds like, where youjust get therapy through fun
things that you like?

Yeah, so the difference between like
something diversional or justgoing out into nature and doing
something great is that when youhave a recreation therapist, we
will process it, we'll kind ofsee, we'll do an assessment,
we'll see what your needs areand then we'll do like maybe an
activity with you.
I work with inpatients, I work.
I work at the veterans hospitalup in Salt Lake city and I've
worked with veterans for over 20years.

(03:13):
So I work mostly inpatient.
So I don't do a lot of theoutdoor recreation things.
But we'll do a game and thenwe'll we'll process and it'll be
working on, like communicationskills or coping skills, a lot
of things that people might beneeding.
But we do a game and then kindof do the analogies and relate
it to your everyday life.

That is so neat.
I'd never heard of that man.
There are so many cool jobs outthere.

I like it.
I love it Wow.

Have you ever, have you ever sat at a stoplight
and just made up jobs forpeople that pass by you in their
cars, based on what they look?

like no, mine would be like Hmm, what would
they enjoy doing?
What would help them bringsomething more passionate to
their lives, to help them enjoylife more.

That's what I would do Way better than me.
I used to make up stories abouthow people were going to go
hide a body.
Oh okay, but I mean, to be fair, I grew up in Florida, so
there's I mean there's just somany good ways to hide a body in
Florida.
You know, you got the swamp,you got the gators, you got
You've got all of the poisonousinsects, You've got hurricanes

(04:23):
that can take people away.
It's just, you know.
Yeah, I went dark there, Idon't know.
Different type of childhoodthan I think.

You're just showing us how Florida gave you
all these options and ideas.

Yeah, oh boy.

Well, melissa, we're excited to have you on the
show.
I'd love to hear your story.
So where does it begin?
Let's turn the time over to you.
My mom's a convert.
My dad's family goes kind ofway back in the church and I was
just raised that way and I wasone who was blessed with faith.
My personality I kind of alwaysjoke about this because of the
fact that I told you I work atthe VA with substance abuse and

(05:16):
we'll talk about things and I'mlike I'm a rule following people
pleaser, and they just don't.
A lot of them don't understandthat because they're not, and
but that's just like how I grewup is just, I followed the rules
and I didn't ever push backagainst the rules.
It was fine with me and I had alot of faith.
And I grew up and I I felt likethere were boxes you had to

(05:39):
check.
You know, I, I don't know, Ithink it's kind of changed, but
I think maybe in my age group, Idon't know, I think it's kind
of changed, but I think maybe inmy age group, we felt like we
had to check boxes to get towhere we were going.
So I was checking all the boxes, you know, and I graduated from
seminary, I went on a missionand I came home from my mission

(06:04):
and then, you know, the nextthing you do is you get married.
And so I was a lot more insecurewhen I was younger and it kind
of took me a little bit longer,I think, to get married.
And maybe it just wasn't justbecause of my insecurity but
just the timing and everything.
But I didn't date a lot and Istarted dating this guy and just
really liked him.

(06:24):
And I was 26 when I got marriedand I remember one time going
to the temple and just thinkingabout him and I hadn't gone to
get like an answer like should Imarry this guy?
I was kind of thinking abouthim and I was being kind of
nitpicky and sitting in thetemple, going I don't know about

(06:45):
this, you know, and I don'tknow about this, and I had the
strongest impression that saidstop it, he has a testimony.
And I remember thinking, allright, he's good enough for God,
he's good enough for me.
So we continued dating and weended up getting married.
We dated for a year and a half.
So we had dated, yeah, from thetime.
We continued dating and weended up getting married.

(07:06):
We dated for a year and a half.
So we had dated, yeah, from thetime we started dating until we
got married.
So so we get married, we havetwo kids.
Things are going going well.
He had started struggling withsome depression and and so there
were some changes, but a lot ofit just seemed to make sense.
A lot of you know the thingsthat you that you go through

(07:28):
with, with things you know, andduring this time I had gotten
diagnosed with multiplesclerosis.
So we had had some challengesin our marriage.
But he was literally like mybest friend and we just we had
what I thought was a pretty easy, good marriage and we just we
had what I thought was a prettyeasy, good marriage.
And then, 17 years into ourmarriage, he came to me one

(07:49):
night and he says I need to talkto you.
So he wanted to wait till afterthe kids went to bed.
And after the kids went to bed,you know, I was like, okay,
let's talk and we sit down.
And it literally took him twoor three hours to get out what
he wanted to say.
And you know my anxiety isbuilding and building and

(08:09):
building, as I know he's tryingto.
He needs to tell me somethingand he just won't say it.
And finally, after about threehours it was like one o'clock in
the morning he finally justsaid I'm gay.
And I remember just my heartjust shattered, I was in
disbelief and I just thought,what you know?

(08:33):
And I remember asking him whatdoes this mean?
Because you know, you know it'sgoing to be a shift and you
know there's things.
But you also, like for me, Ijust absolutely loved him and he
was my best friend and I didn'tknow what it meant.
So we kind of talked about thatand at that point he wasn't
ready to let other people know.

(08:53):
And so I spent the next year anda half trying to figure out how
to make things work.
And I tell people you know, mymarriage kind of died that day
and I tried so hard to recreatea new marriage, felt like I
couldn't get divorced.
You know we'd made covenantsand this life is short in

(09:14):
comparison to eternity and canthis work this way?
Can this work this way?
And and tried to say, hey, ifwe want to make this work, can
we put effort in this way orthat way, just to kind of make
things work.
And he really didn't put a lotof effort into it and it was a
year and a half of being verylonely.

(09:34):
Nobody knew.
I had, I think, two friendsthat I talked to about my
situation, one a little bit andone a lot.
My family didn't know, bishopdidn't know.
Nobody knew.
I felt very, very lonely andthere was a lot of sorrow, there
was a lot of tears, there was alot of my hope was gone, it was

(09:56):
lost.
And after a year and a half Ihad a friend who we'd gone out
and she said something aboutlike, well, you know, you've got
this great husband and I don'tknow about, uh, other people,
but my face, if I don't say itout loud, my face will say it.
And, um, she said that and Ididn't say anything.

(10:18):
And she's like you do stillhave a husband, right?
And then I just broke down intears and I told her what was
happening and she said you needto get a divorce.
And I said I can't.
I said I'm already hurting.
I don't need my kids to hurt, Idon't need our families to hurt
.
I don't need, I don't.
You know, I don't wanteverybody else to hurt, I'm
already hurting.
And she looked at me and shejust said something that kind of

(10:41):
changed a lot of things in mylife Actually.
And she looked at me and saidwho do you think you are the
savior?
That's his job and it just italmost released me from taking
all of that on from my kids,from our families, and um, so it
was after a year and a half oftrying to make it work, feeling

(11:02):
like I couldn't get divorced, togoing.
I think she's right, I think Ineed to do this.

So so did he?
Did he not bring up divorce?
Or was he kind of letting youdecide where you want, like I?
Just I'm trying to wrap my.
I'm such a big, it's such a bigthing and, like you said, he
was your best friend too, soit's I could see how maybe you
could both agree hey, we'restill best friends and we're

(11:28):
going to raise our kids andwe're just we're just going to
get rid of the physical intimacypart of that, which is a huge
part of marriage.
But also marriage can look verydifferent for, for you know,
different reasons.
So I don't know what was histake.

I guess so I have a couple of different
theories on that.
First, because time changesyour perspective and stuff, but
at first I kind of thought, well, he just he was willing to do
what, what I wanted to do.
Even though it wasn't what hewanted to do, he was willing to
do what.
I wanted to do.
And then another part of methinks, well, he didn't want to

(12:06):
be the bad guy and ask for thedivorce, and so I'm actually not
sure.
You know, when I brought thatup, so when we had talked about
trying to make it work, one ofthe things I had is I was like,
well, let's just kind of showeach other that we do care about
each other, that we do loveeach other.
And I'd gotten this littlenotebook that just said hey,

(12:27):
when one of us does somethingthat we just notice that we love
about the other person, becauseI mean, you just feel like
you're not sure if you're lovedanymore.
I mean a big basis of yourrelationship just completely
crumbled, crumbled and um, um,uh, and so, um, when I brought

(12:55):
up the divorce he, he's, and I,and like we, I I had these
things that we could work on,and you never did any of them.
And he just said I didn't wantto give you any hope, and and I
remember that him saying thatand thinking, gosh, he just kind
of waited out until I justcouldn't do it anymore, and so
that's why I'm like it was kindof like, well, was it one way or
was it the other way.
Um, but it was just it was.

It was hard because I was trying to try and
find a way to make it work whenhe was just kind of being being
there but not really putting alot of the effort, like he was
just kind of being there but notreally putting a lot of the
effort, like he was just kind ofwaiting on you to be ready.
Yeah, how was I mean dideverything change with him as
far as like his testimony andeverything like that?
Because I mean you got thatimpression in the temple, yeah,

(13:36):
yeah, how was that?

So, you know, at first it seemed like his
testimony was still there and hejust wasn't quite sure what
this was going to mean.
He had known his whole lifethat he was attracted to the
other gender, and he evenbrought it up with some
priesthood leaders growing up.
One happened to be oursingle-sport bishop, and back

(14:02):
then they gave different advicethan they do now, and what he
had told me was that two of themhad told him to get married and
it would fix itself, and sothat is obviously not the advice
that is given today, but youknow, 25 years ago that was the
advice that was.

Yeah, we just didn't know.

I mean, yeah, and not everybody gave that
advice, but that was the advicethat he'd gotten from from two
people, um, and so, you know, he, he had no.
So people have said, well, didhe know?
Does that something that hecame to later and he had, he had
known, he had struggled with itand and his, his worth and his

(14:41):
value and stuff, and so so whenthis all first happened, um, he
did seem like his testimony wasstill really strong and he still
had some things he was tryingto figure out.
Um and over, over time, it hasit's, it has it's not where it
used to be and you know, I Istruggled with that.

(15:04):
Um, after you know the whole,we decided to get divorced and
even before then I I became veryangry with God because I was
hurt so bad and I'd had thatstrong feeling that this needed
to happen.
You know, or that I that he hada strong testimony and I felt
like I'd gotten thisconfirmation from God to to

(15:26):
marry him and and, and I justremember asking God, how could
you do this to me?
You knew, you knew and I, andnot to just you know and to just
put me in this situation.
So this anger just kind ofbuilt up inside of me.
And then I struggled with somany church policies because

(15:48):
here's this man that I'm justabsolutely, you know, my best
friend and I love and I careabout and I don't want to see
him hurt.
And there are church policiesthat are hurting him or hurting
families.
And there are things that Ijust don't understand.
Like I don't understand howthis could be a trial in
somebody's life.
I don't understand how Godcould do that.
I don't understand.

(16:08):
And so I got to this pointwhere I kind of wanted to walk
away from the church and whichwas for me, was like wow, like
this person that just wouldn'thave never.
But it was during that time whennobody knew.
So because of that, I was stillgoing to church, I was still
doing my calling, I was stilldoing all those things because

(16:29):
nobody knew.
And during that time I rememberthinking, okay, I've got to put
everything to the side, likeevery church policy, everything
I just put.
Put everything to the side,like every church policy,
everything.
I just put it all to the sideand I felt like I'd lost trust
in God.
But at the same time, whenyou're going through trauma

(16:53):
things, it doesn't make sensesometimes the way you think.
So I was very angry at God, butI knew I could trust the Savior.
I knew I could trust the Savior.
I knew I could trust him.
I don't know if it's because ofall the things we've been
taught about the atonement andthat he will take up on our sins
.
We've been taught that he knowshow we feel, and so I just said
I just like all of my focuswith all the stuff that was

(17:15):
going.
I just zeroed in on the Saviorand said, okay, I'm just going
to focus on the Savior and seewhere he takes me.
If it's in the church, so be it.
If it's out, so be it.
I trust the Savior.
So I went in that direction.

Wow, I really love that you had that
distinction, because I think andthis is something we spoke
about on the phone too thatdistinction, because I think and
this is something we spokeabout on the phone too just that
today there are so many peoplewho just assume that God the
Father and Jesus Christ are theexact same in relation, like in

(17:54):
regards to our relationship withthem, right, like, obviously,
most Christianity does believein the Trinity too, and so I can
see how maybe they would be alittle bit more confused on like
, well, how can you have adifferent relationship when
they're the same person?
But in our faith, that's one ofthe big distinguishing
characters between us andmainstream Christianity is that

(18:14):
we do have God, the father, whohas a very distinct role and who
is his own, his own being.
Then we have Jesus Christ, whois his literal son, which means
our brother, you know.
And how often do you have thesame exact relationship with
your father that you have withyour brother?
Never, right, it just doesn'thappen.
You may have some similarities,some things that you like, that

(18:35):
you don't like about them, but I, you know, ultimately it's like
, if you can really payattention to what your
relationship is with each ofthem.
Then you don't have to put themall in the same bucket and be
like, well, if this, if this,you know, uh, happened from
heavenly father, then I have tobe mad at Jesus Christ too.

(18:56):
You know, and it's just not thenot that way.
So that was awesome that youwere able to do that, and I
think it makes the atonementmore personal.
You know, and it's just not thenot that way.
So that was awesome that youwere able to do that, and I
think it makes the atonementmore personal.
You know, it makes that moresacred to you, because you can
see how much as our brother heloved us.
You know, when sometimes parentsare a little harder, you know,
sometimes siblings can associatemore with our feelings and they

(19:19):
can relate to us in a wholedifferent level.
And so, but let me ask you, um,how, how was this, when you
guys brought it up to the kidsand did you?
I mean, was he starting to bemore comfortable with having
that conversation?
And you have two boys, so I canimagine that once they found
out there was probably, I don'tknow, I mean, maybe, maybe it

(19:42):
was a smooth transition and theyknew or didn't care, I don't
know, but how?
How did that all look?

That's another long story in and of itself, but
I'll give the shortened versionof it.
So we had decided it was twoweeks before school got out, um,
for that that we decided to getdivorced.
So we decided to wait untilschool got out to tell them we
were going to get divorced Uh,cause, who wants that on your
kid's plate?
The last two weeks of school.
So, uh, the weekend school gotout, we set them down and we and

(20:13):
he told them that we weregetting divorced.
And we were getting divorcedbecause he was gay.
And our older son said what didhe?
How did he say it?
He was like, oh yeah, I knew.
And I was like how did you know?
I didn't know, but he had.
You know, we all, we both dothings with groups of friends
and stuff.
And, and in this day and age,we, there are a lot of people

(20:35):
around that you know are gay orlesbian or whatever.
And I mean I have friends thatI know they're lesbian, you know
.
And so he.
I know that there were somefriends that have his that were
gay.
But you don't think, oh, he'swith a, he's got there's gay men
in his group.
So you know, I need to thinkabout this, you know, but my son
had.
My son had gone and done somethings with them and he saw how

(20:58):
he had interacted with gay menor how gay men had interacted
with him.
And so he he said he had told mehe's like, yeah, I thought dad
was gay and so he had kind ofseen it, um, coming, he was not
blindsided, um, he was.
It was, uh, right before hissenior year so, and then our
younger one was two years behindhim and he was blindsided and

(21:21):
that was really hard, becausewhen things affect him and they
hit him hard, his little bottomlip will quiver when he's trying
to hold it together.
And so we're sitting theretelling him and his little
bottom lip is quivering and itwas.
It was pretty hard but you know, we made it through and they,
you know, and he didn't reallychange in how he behaved towards

(21:46):
people.
I mean, he's kind of evolvedinto some to, you know, a
different person than I wasmarried to now.
But there was no big changes,immediate changes, so there
wasn't that like I don't knowwho my dad is anymore.
They were, it was was it wassubtle.
so so they, they, they handledit pretty well, um, all

(22:08):
considering, and I would try totry to follow up on that with
with them, especially my, myyounger one.
Um, my older one was alreadystruggling with some things with
the church and so it just kindof it, it wasn't as like it
didn't feel as as I think itdidn't feel as like serious to
him as like with my younger one,of like what does this mean?
Or you know, things like that,um, and I've tried to, you know

(22:33):
kind of be on top of it, likehow is your relationship?
Are you okay with this?
You, how are you?
And they both have have done alittle bit of, gone to a little
bit of therapy, and I'm a bigproponent of therapy, so I think
everybody needs therapy,everybody has some sort of
issues that they need to workthrough.
So, um, you know it helps youjust process things.
So I think they, they, they'veboth done pretty, pretty okay

(22:56):
with the situation.
It's just, you know it's hardanytime your parents get
divorced.

Yeah, yeah, I can imagine there's such a
grieving process involved andand this doesn't have to be for
just um families who experience,you know, someone coming out as
being gay or lesbian orbisexual or any of that kind of
stuff.
But any change in ourpersonality right, Like you, you
could have people who just allof a sudden, aren't really

(23:23):
interested in church at all andnot that they want to go out and
do bad things, they're just notinterested in that can be a
huge, um, a huge loss to the,the future that you had in your
mind, right, the expectationthat you had.
And so it's not necessarilythat people are mad at you for,
for I guess deciding to changeand to to do something that you

(23:48):
feel at the time is honoring atruer version of you or whatever
you want to say, but it's morelike dang, like that just really
messed with my dreams andmessed with what my perspective
was, and so I'm going to need aminute to like step back and
create a new future and seewhere that fits and how it's
going to look with ourrelationships, and especially

(24:10):
between father and son.
I'm sure that there probablywere so many layers to the
questions and the problems thatyou're.
I mean, I have two sons too, youknow, and so I think sometimes
my sons will identify with theirdad in certain things that he
does or says, or, or you know,whatever else.
Um, to the point where there'vebeen conversations in our past

(24:33):
where they're like, well, I wantto be just like dad.
For this reason, you know, andif they can't mirror that, it's
disappointing.
And for the flip side, I'llnever be like that.
This reason, you know, and ifthey can't mirror that, it's
disappointing.
And for the flip side, I'llnever be like that.
You know, they get me angry andstuff like that, Like I'm never
going to do that.
And we all do that with ourparents, Right?
So I can see how even your boyshad to like, kind of look

(24:53):
inside themselves and be likewell, does that mean that I'm
going to be gay too?
Does that mean that?
You know?
Will dad like me better if I am?
Will he like me less?
Like what?
You know what I mean Likethere's just now, all of a
sudden, a whole new layer ofcomplexity to the situation.
So, and especially withteenagers, I mean, teenagers are

(25:15):
just, they're just trying tofigure out life.
Anyway, you know what I mean Tothrow something this big, and I
guess too, cause it's, it'sjust, it's the lifestyle, but
it's also the church thing,right, Like, what does it mean
for us being sealed?
Are we still going to be ableto be, you know, in the
eternities together?
And gosh, like there's just somany, like I'm just having a

(25:36):
down.

It opens up a million questions.

Right.

Did you?

go through that ?
Well, it really does.
So I know, like with my youngerson.
He says sometimes he struggleswhen they will sing the song
families can be together forever.
And you know we've had somediscussions about ceilings and
that they are you know, becausewe've even had talks in general
conference about you know we'vehad some, some discussions about
ceilings and that they are youknow, cause we've even had talks

(26:02):
in general conference about,you know, the horizontal and the
vertical and that you're sealedto God and that this ceiling
will, whatever happens, youyou're, you're under the
covenant with God and andwhoever is, whoever's worthy to
be, you know there will be thereand but you know it's it's all

(26:23):
gonna, it's all gonna work out.
And I think that was one of thethings sometimes, that there I
finally got to the point toowhere I was like I don't have to
understand everything and Ijust have to kind of have that
faith.
And I'll tell you, as I wentthrough some of this, I I didn't
want to be happy in thisdivorced phase of my life.
I like you.

(26:44):
You hit the nail on the headwhen you said you have to like
your.
Your vision of the future justlike my.
My vision of my future justimploded.
You know, I'm like, well, Ihave in my head like how, when
our kids graduated from highschool, and what we were going
to do when we were empty nestersand once we retired and all the

(27:08):
things, and it just imploded.
And then the other things of,like, my son that's not active
in the church.
I love him and I've told himthis.
I'm like you are on your ownjourney.
Sometimes my heart aches, butmy heart aches for what I want.
My heart aches for my desiresand my wants and because at this

(27:34):
point I have rebuilt my trustwith God and I trust God to take
care of him, it's like God'sGod's got him.
That's the other thing that Ithink I really learned.
So I went through this partwhere I didn't want to be.
I did not want to be happy,because that meant that I
accepted everything thathappened and I didn't want to
accept everything.
So I fought to be happy or to,to, to avoid like that joy in my

(28:00):
life.
Um, and you know, and I had, Iwas, I was angry at God and um,
I I'm trying to remember when itwas.
It was almost two years ago.
So I've been divorced for fourand a half years and it was
almost two years ago I ended up,um going on a on a singles trip
.
Um, my, a friend that lives inthe same townhomes as me had a

(28:24):
trip with a group and herroommate couldn't come, and so
she asked if I wanted to come,and so I just kind of was like,
okay, I'm going to do it.
You know, it was a Christmasmarket river cruise in Europe
and I just thought I'm going todo it and I just did it.
I just thought I'm going to doit and I just did it, and that

(28:44):
was kind of the beginning of thechange, of me enjoying this
chapter of my life I'm reallybig on the fact that you have
different chapters of your lifeand I thought, okay, I'm in this
chapter and I found somethingthat I enjoy doing and a group
that I enjoy doing it with, andso I started doing some
traveling and and I startedhaving some more experiences
with with God.

(29:05):
And one day I it was after thistrip I was unpacking and just
thinking about some things and Ijust had this thought, um,
about a situation that I'd beenin before.
Uh, this had all happened CauseI had dated someone shortly
after I had gotten divorced andI, oh, I was head over heels for

(29:25):
him and I kind of was hoping toget married and didn't, and all
these things, and so that wasanother thing that added to my I
don't want to be happy at thispoint and couldn't find anyone
else to date after that.
So I was putting stuff away andI just had this little thought
that said you could have beenhappy with him, but you would
have missed out on everythingI've planned for you.
And I was like, okay, okay, soI'm going to listen for a minute

(29:52):
you know, I'm going to startlistening to you again, I guess
and see what's going on here.
And so I did that.
And then I think it was rightaround that same time, either
the month before right aroundthat same time, I'd gone to the
life after divorce conferenceand while I was there, I was
sitting there and I just thespirit just kept telling me you
need to do this, you need to dothis, and I was like do what?

(30:15):
So for two days the spirit justsaid you need to do this and I
started feeling like I needed toshare my experiences and my
issues that I've had with mydoubts, being angry with God,
all these things, and I rememberthinking I don't know how to do
this.
And then, the last session Iwent to, a woman talked about

(30:37):
how she helps women find theirpurpose and helps them get where
they need to be, and I was like, oh, this is what I need to do,
so I started doing that.
Then I started, you know, doing, you know more traveling, and I
there were still some struggles, there were still like just a
lot of some tears and some pain,and but over the over that year

(30:57):
, but over that year I reallygrew.
And I remember one day, Iremember feeling like I trusted
God, except in my love life.
I remember thinking that and Iwas like, well, hey, but I was
like, hey, that is something,though, that is progress.
I thought that's what I rememberthinking that's progress.

(31:19):
And I remember thinking that.
I thought that's what Iremember thinking that's
progress.
And I remember thinking thatand I do also remember an
overwhelming feeling fromHeavenly Father that said and
it's okay, it's okay that youwere angry with me, it's okay,
it was.
It was and I have been here thewhole time, right, waiting for
you to be ready, and just kindof this impression of like hey,

(31:42):
if you're going to be mad atanybody, go ahead and be mad at
me, because I can take it and Iunderstand and I know, and I
know what I these situationsthat you're in and I know what I
can do with you if you'rewilling to, to let me.
And so that's when I kind ofwas like you know it's okay to
be angry, it's okay to havethese doubts, but it's what you

(32:04):
do with it next.
That's important and I'll tellyou.
You know it's not like you knowthat happens.
And I never stepped away fromthe gospel, even though I did
really struggle with a lot ofthings, but I did leave myself
open to gaining that knowledgefrom our Heavenly Father and
from the Savior of what is truth, and I left myself open for

(32:28):
that, even though it took awhile.
And I'll tell you, there wasjust like this feeling of like,
yeah, it's okay.
Of like, yeah it's okay.
And I really liked that becauseI feel like sometimes we don't
want to say we're angry at God,because God knows all and God,
you know, he knows the bestthings for us, and so why should

(32:50):
we be angry with him?
But he's put us in thesesituations to grow and become
like him, and we can't do thatjust through easy things.
And I, you know, I always tellpeople to.
You know, sometimes you read anobituary and it's like she just
did everything with grace andkindness and I'm like, oh,

(33:11):
that's not gonna be mine, it'sgoing to be like she fought and
she kicked and she screamed andthen she accepted it.
So that's going to be fine.
But I think there is that'sokay, and he knows we're human
and he knows we we need to dothose things to to grow, because
that's where we're likesubmitting our will to his and

(33:31):
and learning how to do that.
There were so many times where Iwould also be like you know.
People say let the savior takeyour, your pain.
And I would pray and pray, andpray and say, please take my
pain.
It was so painful, it hurts sobad.
And I used to say, you know, myknowledge knows that it's all
okay, but why does it still hurtso bad?

(33:53):
And so I would say, please takemy pain.
I didn't know how to, I didn'tknow how to give it, until one
day I just did.
And I can't even explain how Idid either.
It's just, it was just work andwork and work, and trying to
just pray for it and think aboutit and figure out how to do it.
And then one day I just did,and and it's I, it's I can't

(34:18):
tell you how to do it becauseit's everybody else's process.
Um, but you just, you just gotto work for, for things.
And then I saw so many miraclesin my life and so many things
that the Lord had blessed mewith after my divorce that it
was just like I just cannotdoubt so many things right now.

(34:40):
Like I look at how I went, myjob, my job situation, I feel
like the Lord knew from thebeginning like what was going to
happen and he prepared me evenfrom in my youth, like when I
got divorced.
I had a degree and I switchedfrom never working full time to
a fulltime job.

(35:00):
That I was working at the VA,already part-time but I went
full-time to a job.
That where I could sustainmyself.
You know, a lot of women getdivorced and they're going back
to school and they're, you know,just trying to struggle to, to,
to make it and I I landed on myfeet and I I look back and see
where the Lord guided me in that.

(35:21):
You know, when I, when I decidedto, when we sold the family
house and moved, I was going tostay in the family house with my
youngest son until he graduatedfrom high school because he has
a lot of social anxieties andand depression and that wasn't
going to be good to move and Ifelt prompted to move.
And this was in April or aboutApril of 2021, when the market

(35:41):
was just crazy and I was able toget my house on the market,
move, find another place.
When the market was crazy, Ithought I was going to have to
move in with my parents for likenine months to try and get a
house.
You couldn't buy and sell atthe same time at that time.
So I had to sell my house, moveinto them five weeks from the
time my house closed to the timethat I found my new place and

(36:05):
closed and was in my new placeand that was the time when it
was like it was like six to ninemonths to get into places.
I saw that happen.
I just saw so many of thesethings where the Lord said this
is your, this is still your path.
You know you had a differentidea of what your path was, but
this is your path and I'm goingto open a few doors for you.
And just, he opened some doors.

(36:26):
Some doors didn't open quite soeasily and and that's hard, but
there were doors that openedthat I was able to see, how, how
, the things that he he saw thatI couldn't see and in fact I
used to pray.
I used to pray all the time.
I'm like Heavenly Father, Iknow you can see everything, but

(36:49):
I can only see what's in frontof me right here.
I need to know more.
I need to know more.
I used to pray that all thetime, all the time we're going
to have this discussion again,cause I just I couldn't see
anything.
I couldn't see how it was goingto work out.
I couldn't see anything, and soI'd have that discussion and

(37:09):
I'd wave my hand in front of myface Every single time.
I had that little discussionwith him.
I can't see past here.
You got to help me out.
But you know, and again it'ssometimes you just can't see and
you gotta wait till you gothrough it to be able to turn
around and look back and be ableto see, and that is the hardest
part yeah, just taking thosesteps forward with faith, and

(37:34):
that's sometimes what I feltlike I had to do.
I was like I guess I'm justtaking a step forward with faith
because I cannot see anything.

You know, there's two things that that you
said, that kind of like, Iwould love to talk about for
just a second.
The first thing is, just like,um, we have sometimes a hard
time distinguishing betweenheavenly father and Jesus Christ
.
I've noticed, uh, thatespecially nowadays, um, people
have a very hard timedistinguishing between church

(38:06):
policy and gospel doctrine.
And even like, like youspecifically said, I never
walked away from the gospel, youdidn't say I never walked away
from the church.
And I think, even just likethat, that realization that the
church is an organization onthis earth that is guided by God
but run by man and men are men,are flawed, like it just is
what it is.

(38:26):
Like we do the best we can withwhat we have, hoping that we
don't screw things up too badly.
Family, father can't fix it,but the gospel is the gospel,
you know, and right now thechurch is the place where the
gospel has that fullness there,right.
And so sometimes there's goingto be policies or procedures,

(38:48):
there's going to be people inleadership who give the wrong
advice or just give horribleadvice or do horrible things.
Not that, not that the thegospel is flawed, right, it's
just that we're trying to figureit out right, like the church
is sometimes trying to figure itout.
But I love that when you spokeon that, you're like you still

(39:09):
did the things, you still wentthrough the motions, but you
never walked away from thegospel.
You let that be the thing thatcenters you and I, I feel like
there are so many reasons for usthat we can come up with to
walk away from the church.
You know, just for whatever Imean it could be, I don't like

(39:30):
two hour Sundays.
I don't like.
You know what I mean Like Idon't like the music that's
being played in church.
I don't like that.
Uh, youth is on a Wednesdaynight instead, or whatever it is
.
Like we can come up with likelittle things.
We can come up with really bigthings like, well, because, you
know, because my family is gay,that means they can't go to the

(39:50):
temple, or because someoneidentifies as a gender different
than what they were born, maybethey can't have certain
callings in relief society orpriesthood, or something like
that.
You know what I mean.
And so there are things thatpeople can definitely look at
and say, well, this is wrong andthis shouldn't be, and so that
means everything needs to bethrown away.

(40:10):
But you didn't do that, like.
You saw the things that weren'tfeeling right for you at the
time, but you also knew thatthere was something bigger and
deeper and more important thanthose surface items, right?
And so I think that, well, letme ask you how, how do you do it

(40:33):
Like?
How do you stay focused on whatreally matters most when what's
happening so loud?

Okay, if you're going to weather the storm,
you've got to have built yourfoundation before you're
weathering the storm, and I justreally feel that that's
important.
So when we were married and wewent to the temple every month,
we had a stake president thatissued a challenge to make a

(41:00):
goal of how often you want to goto the temple and, and so we
set a goal to go to the templeat least once a month.
And so we went, and it wasn'talways together.
Sometimes we had to divide andconquer.
A lot of times it was on thevery last day of the month and I
was running in.
We were running in and doinglike initiatories, but we went

(41:21):
every month.
Like I'm not kidding you, forlike seven years we went every
month.
It may have even been more thanthat, and I think having built
a strong foundation is what gotme through that, because you
know it's like you can.

(41:41):
I've served most of my adultlife in primary presidencies and
people.
You know.
I would say you know they'rethe primary answers for a reason
because they are the ones thatget you through these things.
But you know, you think aboutthe primary song, the wise man
and the foolish man, andbuilding your house upon a rock,
and I also.

(42:02):
So I'm going to tell you thislittle story, this little
analogy that I found veryinteresting.
I went on a trip to Ireland thispast summer and in Ireland they
have these like towers, theseround.
They're not very, they're notvery big, but these round towers
, and they go up really high andthey have been there for 1000

(42:23):
years and they were used to goup and, like you know, kind of
tell people from city to citydifferent things or send
messages out or see what wasgoing on.
You know, but they were, theywere there, but they've been
there for over 1000 years.
Well, because of how Ireland is, the rock is just right there
at the surface, so they didn'tdig down to the rock.

(42:44):
And then on top of the rockthere's this round part that
goes up about 10 feet beforethere's a door.
And they said, well, we lookedat like, why is there 10 feet
above it before it goes in thedoor?
Was it for security?
Was it for this?
No, it was because it neededthat strong of a foundation so
it would stand.
So really, it really pointedout to me like they had this

(43:08):
foundation and the foundationwas right on top of the rock.
And that reminded me of ElderBednar's talk that he gave, I
think, conference before last,where he was talking about the
difference between the rock andthe foundation, cause sometimes
we get those things mixed up orwe just combine them or don't
really think about it.
Cause I remember listening tothe talk and being like wait a
minute, what?
And I just had to like, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, that makes

(43:29):
sense.
But at first I was like wait aminute, that's the same thing.
And then you realize it's not.
But it was this visual for meto see that like these have
lasted so long because theybuilt a strong enough foundation
.
So you are going to go throughtrials.
And up until that point in mylife I had gone through some
trials and some of them weredifficult.

(43:49):
You know, I got diagnosed withmultiple sclerosis.
That was really hard.
You know, I didn't know whatwas going to happen in my life.
There were some other things,but then this one, this one was
the one that just knocked me tomy core.
And if I didn't have thatstrong foundation because even
with that strong foundation Iwas it was the winds and

(44:11):
everything were knocking at thatand there was battering that as
hard as it could.
So I think the biggest thing isto have that strong foundation.
And then the second thing is,like I had said, and what I say
is like you, you want the truth,you know you.
If you want the truth, you goto the source of truth.
Okay, if you're having issueswith the church, if you're

(44:35):
having issues with whatever itis, um, and you're like, well, I
don't know, if you go, you canfind anything in the, on the
internet, basically, to confirmyour, your bias.
You can find anything.
So if you want to findsomething to confirm it now, you
know, against it, you're goingto find it.
So my thing was the Savior.
I felt like we, as a member ofthe church being baptized, we

(45:00):
have access to the gift of theHoly Ghost.
One of my favorite scriptures,if not my favorite, is Moroni
10.5.
By the power of the Holy Ghost,you may know the truth of all
things.
All things, it's not just theBook of Mormon.
We can know the truth of allthings.
So we want to pray and get thatanswer from the Holy Ghost and
because that's, that's the truth, you want the truth.

(45:22):
So that's those are my things,build on the foundation and then
ask someone to ask for thewhere the source of truth comes
from.
And that's where you're goingto go, because that's what
happened to me is I?
I just, I just thought I needto go to this, to the source of
truth, and he will, you know,and the truth will take me where

(45:43):
I need to be.
And you know, and over time,little by little, my heart
softened and I could feel likelittle things.
There was almost sometimes alittle like awakening, sometimes
, like I said that first time,that I was like, oh, I trust God
, even if it's not in my lovelife yet I trust him here, which
I didn't for a little while.
And a lot of times I would singto myself that primary song

(46:04):
Heavenly Father, are you reallythere?
Do you hear and answer everychild's prayer?
And then one day I just startedsinging the song and I I
changed the words without eventhinking about it.
I said Heavenly Father, I knowyou're really there, I know you
hear and answer every child'sprayer.
And I went Well, look at that.
I feel like I learned anotherthing.

(46:27):
You know, just these thingsthat I didn't intend to happen,
but they just happened becauseof all of that, and you know I
will tell you too, one of thethings, the thing that I
struggled with the very most,was that very beginning, when I
thought Heavenly Father, howcould you do this to me?
You knew, yet you told me hehas a testimony.

(46:52):
And it was even just in thispast year.
I was sitting there, I rememberI was sitting on my couch and I
was thinking about something.
I can't remember even what itwas.
Maybe it was a talk I was doing, maybe it was oh no, I remember
what it was.
I had read something about.
You know, did I make a wrongdecision and who I'd married,

(47:12):
and stuff.
And I was thinking about thatand the thought came to me no,
you didn't make a wrong choice,you married someone who had a
testimony in the gospel.
Things changed over years.
Someone can choose to walk away, someone can choose to let
their testimony fade.
I didn't make a wrong choiceand I kept doing the things to

(47:34):
keep my testimony, but somebodyelse had their agency, somebody
else could choose what theywanted to do and different
choices could have been made.
Different choices could havebeen made and and kept our
marriage.
And you know cause I was.
I was willing to put some, someeffort into it and I was.
You know, who knows what wouldhave happened.

(47:54):
But we have the choice andsometimes we're affected by
people and their choices.
But it really made me see I didnot make a mistake, I did what
the Lord wanted me to do, butthen you just got to keep doing
it.
It's just like your testimony.
You can have a really strongtestimony and then things can

(48:14):
happen and you can walk away andyou look I mean, you've seen
that with some people you'relike they were so strong, what
happened, and it's somethingthat happens and it just kind of
you have to.
Sometimes you have to fight.
You have to fight for yourtestimony.
We had a guest.

Okay.

No, I like that because the question that's been
in my mind for quite a whilewhile you're telling your story
is, like, you've mentioned, thatyou've been mad at God.
I'm like, weren't you mad athim, like, for making some of

(48:53):
the choices that he made becausehe could have chosen, even
though he had that tendency hecould have chosen to keep his
commitment.
But I like what you just saidwas very tasteful.
You know, you kept yourcommitment.
We all have that choice to makeand keep the promises and the
commitments that we make withGod and with our spouse.
And the real challenge in lifeis, like you said, to keep your

(49:16):
commitment and you did that, andso you answered my question in
a tasteful way, even though Iwanted to, like you know, go
down that road, and I was.
I was like mad at your, at yourex-husband talking, but just
because from a husband like youknow, like I, just I see it from

(49:38):
a different perspective but weall have those choices and he
and he could have made differentchoices, but we all have the
roads that we have to go downand we all have the choices that
we make and between us and God,and us and our spouses, and us
and our kids.

And you know, it's kind of interesting because
I wasn't angry at him.
I did have a little.
I did go through an angry spotwhich, when I was talking with
my therapist, I was like, well,this is actually good, I finally
got to an angry spot.
I wasn't angry at him, likewell, this is actually good, I
finally got to an angry spot.
I wasn't angry at him.
And this is this is why itwould just I happen to be, you
know, just again with mypersonality, who I am.

(50:21):
I'm very caring, very loving,and I just my heart ached for
him because how hard like hetried to do everything right.
He tried to read the gospel hetried to like to me.
I felt like it and at thatmoment, like it took longer for
me to realize what he made,choices that made him go away
from that.
But back then, in that time, Ithought my heart, my heart ached

(50:44):
for him and I thought, well, ifwe were to get divorced, I
could still go find someone thatI, that I love and feel that
for and I can still keep mycovenants.
If he does that, he doesn'tkeep his covenants, and that
broke my heart, you know.
And and so I was just sobecause I was still so wrapped

(51:05):
up in the love that I had forhim.
You know, like with a divorce.
So I tell some people I waslike you know, my situation is
like was different.
A lot of times when you getdivorced, you're just so ready
to be done with that personbecause, just, you just can't
get along anymore.
It was just, it was gutwrenching and I just had to,
like you're continuing tountwine your feelings for this
person, because I had just feltlike I had just cared for this

(51:27):
person for the past.
I had just felt like I had justcared for this person for the
past.
It was 19 years before we'dgotten divorced.
You know, we'd been married for19 years and so that anger
wasn't there, it was more just aheartbreak for him.
And then, you know, through it,I kind of realized things like
oh, he did make some choicesthat really affected me, even

(51:49):
though I knew that it took awhile for it, like hit me and go
well, that wasn't very cool,you know and be like have that
little bit of anger and you know, and I I wish that happiness
for him.
You know, it's his, it's hislife and I don't want him to be
unhappy.
I mean, he was part of my lifefor so long and but the choices

(52:11):
that he's making now are hischoices and my choices are mine
and and you know, what I'vedecided to do with mine is I.
You know, even in dating I waslike, well, do I just need to
find a good man, because it'sjust hard to find good active
LDS man.
And and you know, and Iremember one time after I dated
someone for just a short timethat wasn't active and I had

(52:33):
this strong feeling that Ineeded to find someone who was
active in the church.
And I remember doing the littlelike, oh, it's hard enough to
find just a decent guy.
It's got to be someone that'sactive in the church, which is
what I want because I'm veryactive.
But it's hard to find thatperson that you connect with.

(52:55):
I always say the stars have toalign.
You know they're both the same,you're just.
I mean all of the things.
It's just so hard but but but Iwas like, okay.
So I always say I throw mytantrums and then I say, okay,

(53:28):
let's go ahead Some tantrums arelonger than others.
But um, but uh.
I just remember that dayfeeling like, oh, okay, well, I
guess I'll be more my singlelife.
I found it about a year and ahalf ago and I'm like, okay,
okay, I found my happy in mysingle life.

That's awesome.
You know we had um I was gonnasay I guessed um about probably
about a year ago or so.
His name is Dusty Smith.
Fantastic, I mean, seriously.
Go listen to his episode.
It's the best, like you willjust be laughing and it's full
of miracles.
But one of the things that youwere talking about with
testimony, you know, and justthe fact that that your

(54:01):
ex-husband you know he did havea testimony, dusty.
Dusty was in the church for awhile and then he became an
apostate for 26 years and he Imean hardcore anti Latter-day
Saint.
I mean he was like he wouldcall people that he had baptized
on his mission and apologize tothem.
He was like very much likesuper apostate, um, and then he

(54:25):
ended up coming back throughthis series of amazing miracles
and stuff and and one of thethings that we had asked was you
know, how was that for you toto have such a strong testimony
and then to lose it and then to,to, you know, find it again,
type of thing?
And he had said for him, theonly way he can explain it was
he never actually lost it.
It's that heavenly father heldonto it for him while he was

(54:48):
going through all of his stuffand then, once he was finally
ready to come back and to behumble and to make the choices
to really go back to that sourceof truth right, instead of
getting all nitty gritty on allthe the facts and the logic and
all the things that are outthere right now, he said he felt
like heavenly father gave itback to him and said here, this

(55:10):
time don't throw it away.
And he said it was.
It was just such a cool thingfor me to hear, because
sometimes you think that yourtestimony is kind of like a
rollercoaster ride, like youeither have it really strong and
then all of a sudden you don'thave it anymore.
And then you have a video andhe's like no, he's like it's
there, it's always there.
Whatever, whatever truth youhad experience with, is still

(55:34):
true.
It is still true Now, whetheryou choose to remember how
strong you had that impressionor or how much that mattered to
you.
Sometimes we get focused onthings that are a little louder
or a little brighter or a little, uh, more enticing of whatever

(55:54):
feeling we're feeling, whetherit's passion or excitement or
anger or rebellion or whateverit is.
Sometimes we just let thoseother feelings mask how strong
the spirit was with us in thosemoments that built our
testimonies, but it doesn't meanthat that ever changes.
It's just we can't see it orcan't hear it, or don't remember

(56:15):
it fully and perfectly, and Ithink all of us will at one
point, especially when we arethere at the end and we meet the
savior, I feel like he's goingto give it all back to us,
Everything that we might'veforgotten.
He's going to restore ourmemory completely and we're
going to be like, oh dang, wow,I really do know where truth is.

(56:43):
I know what truth is.
I know that I'm loved.
I know that I am forgiven.
I know that there are thingsthat are so much more important
than what I paid attention towhen I was on the earth, and so,
for me, it's just, it's been.
It's given me so much hope formy own loved ones you know my
family and friends who, um,either have walked away from the

(57:04):
gospel or have walked away fromtheir duties, um, in the family
, who have walked away from theperson that I always thought
that they were and who I lovedand adored and wanted to be
around all the time.
Um, it's kind of given me thathope that, like you're right,
heavenly father knows them, heknows where they're at, he knows

(57:24):
what they're going through andhe's going to be able to help
restore all of those testimonybuilding moments to them in due
time.
It may not happen in this life,it may not be until you know
they're face to face again withthe savior, but, um, but they'll
get it all back and then atthat point they will have a

(57:44):
perfect knowledge and they'll beable to make the choice, with
all of the information given tothem, that they can be very
confident in making that choice.
And maybe that choice really isnot to be, you know, in the
celestial kingdom, so to speak,because maybe they're just
really genuinely going to besuper comfortable in a different
kingdom of heaven and adifferent space and with a

(58:06):
different relationship, uh, withthe savior and with and with
heavenly father than what wehave.
But that's okay, because we canstill have our own relationship
with them too.
It doesn't have to be well, youhave to have the same
relationship with the savior andwith the heavenly father that I
have in order for me to have arelationship with you.
You know, um, and I thinkyou're right, like when it comes

(58:28):
to all of those questions abouttemple ceilings and the
eternities and what's going tohappen to our family.
I do know that there I'm.
There was a prophet, I believe,sometime in the past that said
something like the um, therelationships in the hereafter
are going to be so much morebeautiful than we can even
fathom.
So all of those what ifs thatwe're going through right now,

(58:50):
it's not important.
It's not important, and wewouldn't even be able to fully
understand it, even if it wasexplained to us, because we're
just not there, you know.
But heavenly father will workit all out to our good.

So that's beautiful.
I love that thought that he'sjust holding on to things which
you know.
I guess that kind of makessense.
It's like when I finally myheart finally softened.

It was like yep, I'm right here, just just been
waiting for you, just holding,holding on for you.
Yeah, um, I my thoughts on someof these things that we've been
talking about.
I was first kind of mad at yourex-husband and now, as we've had
more conversations, I'm feelingmore like compassion and maybe
like even like charity towardshim, because, I mean, and for

(59:43):
people that are going throughthese kinds of things, because
the Satan is real and he is.
He has a lot of influence inthe world right now and I think
we have to have some compassionand some charity for, for what
people are going through and andsome of the challenges that

(01:00:07):
that people are facing um in theworld today, and and this is
one of them- yeah.
And I think it's easy to get madand to reject people that maybe
make some of these choices, butultimately, I think the best
thing to do the high road wouldbe to have some compassion and

(01:00:27):
some charity towards them.
I don't know what are yourthoughts on that.
I mean, you've gone through it,so you probably have a better
idea than I do.

Melissa Rollins (01:00:35):
You know, through that and through so many
other things, I think I've justbeen so grateful that I don't,
I don't, I don't have to judgepeople, the Lord knows.
I think it's really helped mereally see that the Lord really
knows what situation thateverybody has gone through and
you know who knows.

(01:00:56):
Like, like I said at one point,we I used to believe in the
checklist you got to check,check, check, check, check to
get where you're going.
And now I'm wondering maybethere's like a different
expectation for somebody thatwas born, you know, in the
covenant, as opposed to someonewho was born with parents who
were drug abusers, and that theLord says to this person I

(01:01:20):
expect you to live the gospel, Iexpect you to this.
Maybe to the other person hesays I expect you to try to be
nice to people because you got arough start.
You know, I just, I just havejust said you know, I'm pretty
sure now this is, you know, Idon't know, I don't haven't seen
it as doctrine anywhere, butI'm pretty sure that it's time
of judgment.
He's not gonna say you know,hey, alisha, will you come up

(01:01:43):
here and judge with me?
So yeah, we don't, we don'thave to take things.
We can take that off our plate,right?
You know, when we worry aboutso much, we're like, hey, you
know what, I don't have to worryabout it.
The Lord's going to judge himNot our circus not our monkeys,
right, right.
And so I think there's just somethings where I've just thought,
you know, yes, people makechoices that do affect their

(01:02:07):
happiness, that may affect theirsalvation.
If we want to go that routethat affect other people's
happiness, um and and do affectthat.
But I think also that I thinkyou said, like the grace and the
compassion, and that there'snever any point that said, oh,
you blew it all, you bleweverything, it's just blown.

(01:02:30):
I can't, even I can't.
I just don't see god saying Ijust, I don't know how to
recover from this.
I don't, I don't know what todo with you now.

Alisha Coakley (01:02:39):
I feel like he's done this to me sometimes,
alisha, come on, I know he has.

So I think he knows how to handle it.
I think he's kind of like whenhe says, oh Alisha, oh Melissa,
just would you just hang on,would you just have a little
faith, would you just hang on?
I think he does that, I thinkhe might do that, but I don't
think that something messes upand he's like well crud, now I
don't know.
Oh, how is this going to workout?
How am I going to fix this?
You know, I things like I feltlike my life was going to go in

(01:03:16):
that you know that track, thattrajectory, and it wasn't going
to have a big.
I was just like man, the temple, and now we just keep going
riding that little ride up.
And so when it did, it was justlike, oh well, wait a second.
This wasn't on my timeline ofhow I was supposed to get there,
and it's just made me see thatthe Lord has beautiful things in

(01:03:37):
store for us when horriblethings might happen.
That something that just wasthe most devastating thing in my
life opened up the door forsomething beautiful to happen.
And would I have been okay tostay in my, my area?
Sure, but because I didn't, andbecause that that happened, he

(01:04:01):
didn't say well, you lost it.
You lost your hope for thathappiness.
You lost that hope for for joy.
You're just in this mess now.
He's like no, well, otherpeople have had to go through
some messes too.
So let's maybe find you anotherperson that's kind of gone
through some stuff too and therecan be joy and happiness and

(01:04:23):
beautiful things to come out ofdevastating things.

You are amazing, like I knew it over the phone.
When I talked to you, I justgot that feeling and and can I
just say you totally have thatwhole look of like general
primary president.
I'm just gonna call it rightnow.
We're gonna see you in generalconference one day.
Um when?

when that happens, give us a shout out
like this is all, because it'snot because of all the things
that the lord did to prepare mefor this, it's because I did
this podcast and it just exactly, just I mean elevated me that's
just how we roll, melissa, yeah.
Yeah.

You really are fantastic and I can feel the
love that you have, not only foryour ex, for your children
having to go through what theywent through, for others who
might be experiencing the samething, but you can feel your
love that you have for theSavior and for your Heavenly
Father now, and it's just beensuch a joy having you on and

(01:05:35):
hearing your story and I feellike even you know I wasn't
angry like Scott, you know,cause I'm a I'm a little more
compassionate no, I'm justjoking, I'm really not, but but
I do feel like my love and mycompassion has grown for those
who you know, not just those inthe LGBTQ community, but just

(01:05:55):
everybody who is struggling withfiguring out who they are and
what they want their life tolook like and where they're at
and how they got there and, youknow, just carrying the grief
and the burden, the anger andthe confusion.
Um, I think we're all just, wereally are just trying to figure
it out and sometimes it isreally really hard to see the

(01:06:17):
light through the darkness.
Um, and so you're right, likewe don't have to be the people
that pass judgment, we don'thave to be the ones that figure
out everyone's life.
We just have to be there tolove them, we have to forgive
them and you know we have to toput as much light in our own
lives as we can so that,hopefully, we can be a beacon to

(01:06:38):
others so that they can findtheir way through the darkness.
And so thank you for being youand for coming on here today and
sharing your story.

It's a pleasure , thank you.

Scott Brandley (01:06:49):
Do you have any last thoughts you'd like to
share before we wrap things up?
Do you have any last thoughtsyou'd?

like to share before we wrap things up.
You know just that.
Turn to the Lord, turn to theSavior.
I mean, he is the one that canheal wounds, that can really
help us, and that is His job and, like I said, not our job.
It's not my job to do thesaving.
Let the Savior do the savingand that he can heal wounds.

(01:07:15):
And I will tell you, I criedmyself to sleep every night for
such a long time, In fact, evenwhen I moved into my new place,
my new townhome.
I loved it, I thought it wascute and I'd cry myself to sleep
every night and say, at least Ilike my townhome, I love my
townhome.
I found this little place thatwas my home and my refuge, but
it took.
It took time to heal and giveyourself grace and compassion

(01:07:40):
and time to heal, and but.
But try to move forward andfind those, those that joy.
Try to try to find those littlethings that bring you little
bits of happiness in your lifeand look for the things that the
you little bits of happiness inyour life and look for the
things that the Lord is doingfor you.
Look and see, because they arethere and you may not.

(01:08:02):
You're not.
It may be so hard when you'rein these really hard times to
see something every day.
I did a gratitude journal whereI try to look for something
good every day and sometimes itwas, you know, like I made it
through the day.
That was my good thing today.
But when we start looking, ourmindset starts looking for the
good and seeing that and itdoesn't make the bad go away,

(01:08:25):
but it makes you realize thatthere's some good things still
out there.

Yeah, wow, it's so true, and I have to say I
vouch heavily for doing that.
Daily gratitude and evenfinding little things I used to
do this with my kids when wewould go to school is, um, I'd
have them pick three things,three things that they were
grateful for.
They couldn't repeat the samething like within a week's time,

(01:08:50):
and they couldn't say whatsomeone else said.
They had to come up with theirown stuff, and so we got really
creative.
About a month in from startingthis, you know, like trying to
think outside the box, I mean, Iremember some of the things
were like I'm really gratefulfor traffic cones so that we
don't drive in that big, hugepothole, and I'm so grateful for
safety locks on the car doorwhen we're driving through the

(01:09:14):
bad time, you know, bad side oftown.
I'm so grateful for, um, theway that the leaves are changing
colors.
Now, you know, like we I mean mykids and I really had to start
looking for those blessings, andit's like it just made us so
much more aware of being in thepresent and not not going
through that like, oh, ourshattered future Now we have to

(01:09:36):
figure it out.
Or oh, all of this past stuffactually means this instead, and
we didn't have to createstories for either time period.
We could just be in this presentmoment and just be grateful for
what it was, and sometimes thatwas like the only thing that I
could do was sit there.
For me it was, it was themountains in Ogden, the North

(01:09:57):
Ogden mountain, you know, areathere, um, and that was a place
where I would just go and if Icould see a little bit of it, I
could just sit and be gratefulfor that moment of seeing those
mountains and so, um, I lovethat that you focused on that
and I highly recommend it foranybody who's going through any
kind of garbage.
Seriously, there are so muchpower in our brain and heavenly

(01:10:22):
father knew it and that's why hetalks about gratitude over and
over and over again in thescriptures is because it
literally changes our brain andit helps us to go out into this
next stage of life where we canprogress and grow and be better
and be stronger and be able toget through things.
So definitely good advice there.

So if somebody wants to get ahold of you,
Melissa, what what options dothey have available?

Well, I have a website, melissariding.
com, so riding's my maiden name,and I kind of went through some
some branding and tried tofigure some things out.
Some of us writing dot cominstagram is writing with
melissa a little play on wordsthere and I do a lot of stuff in
my car, right?
So those are the.

(01:11:11):
Those are probably the two bestways.
Awesome, so riding like ridinga bike.

Gotcha, we'll make sure that we put the
description or the links to yourall of your things in the
description here.
So, um, if anybody would liketo get ahold of Melissa, you
guys can go ahead and do that,or you can reach out to us.
We'll.
We can get you guys connectedtoo.
That's a good way to do it.
But, um, well, melissa, thankyou so much for coming on again,
for sharing your story, sharingyour light with us.

(01:11:38):
Um, this has just been a reallywonderful pot.
I just feel so good.
I just feel so light and airyand wonderful.
Um, we are so, so grateful foryou and and we're so grateful
for our listeners for tuninginto um guys, we're going to ask
you, like we do every singleepisode please, please, please,
do your five second missionarywork.
You have no idea who needs tohear this and when they need to

(01:11:59):
hear it, so just blast it allover your social media, hit that
share button, leave a commentfor Melissa.
Let us know you know what todayin this conversation really
helped you to?
Um, strengthen your testimony.
What questions maybe do youhave?
What experiences do you guyshave too?
We would love to hear from youguys.
So, um, be sure that you guysshare Melissa's story today and

(01:12:21):
and give us your thoughts.

Yeah, and if you have a story that you would
like to share, send us an emailat latterdaylightsatgmailcom and
we'd love to have you on theshow as well.
And, melissa, it has been anabsolute treat, um, thank you so
much for sharing your story.
It was very inspiring and wereally appreciate it thank you

(01:12:48):
all right, guys.

well, that's all we have for you for this sunday
, so stay tuned for our nextepisode next week and until then
, we hope you guys have awonderful week.
We'll talk to you later.

Take care.

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When Your Spouse Comes Out - From Heartbreak to Hope: Melissa Rollins' Story - Latter-Day Lights

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}When Your Spouse Comes Out - From Heartbreak to Hope: Melissa Rollins' Story - Latter-Day Lights