47. Fueling Leadership Through Empowerment with Maj Gen Dan Tulley

In this powerful episode of Lead Into It, I sit down with Maj Gen Dan Tulley, Director of Operations at U.S. Transportation Command—and someone I had the honor of serving with over a decade ago. 

We trace his leadership journey from his ROTC days at Duke University to commanding at a global scale, uncovering the real-world lessons that shaped his leadership style. Tulley opens up about a pivotal in-flight moment that cemented his trust in training, the decisions he faced as tensions with Iran rose, and how he kept his team informed, empowered, and motivated during COVID.

He also gets real about what makes leadership sustainable: humility, trust, and letting go of the need to have all the answers. One of my favorite takeaways? “Nobody wants to be that single leader that everything depends on.”

Whether you’re leading five people or five thousand, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom on:

• Building high-performing, resilient teams
• Making decisions under pressure (and creating space for them)
• Leading with humility and intention
• Balancing strategic and tactical thinking
• Spending your “leadership capital” wisely

Grab your headphones—this is one episode you don’t want to miss.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

Excited to be with you!

Episode Transcript

Sara Greco (00:00):
You're listening to episode 47 of the Lead Into It
podcast.
Welcome back to Lead Into It,where we dive into leadership
lessons from real life journeys,and today's guest brings a lot
of them.
I'm your host, sara Greco, andI'm beyond excited to reconnect
with Major General Dan Tully.

(00:20):
It's been over a decade sincewe worked together at MacDill
Air Force Base and now he's theDirector of Operations at US
Transportation Command.
No big deal, right.
In this episode we talk abouteverything from his ROTC days at
Duke to navigatingpressure-packed moments
throughout his career.
We get into what it really meansto build trust, make tough
calls and lead with humility, aswell as empower your team to do

(00:43):
great work even when you're notin the room.
Dan is the kind of leader whoowns his growth, invites
feedback and knows the value ofa good strategy and a good
question.
There's a ton of insight herefor any leader, no matter where
you are in your journey.
Let's get into it.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
I'm so excited to have you onlead into it and I'm excited to

(01:04):
talk to you more.
It's been a while since we'vehad like an in-depth
conversation.
I mean, I worked with you whenI was stationed at MacDill in
Tampa and I've seen your careerkind of just grow from there, so
it's exciting to talk to you.
After what?
10 years, yeah.

Dan Tulley (01:21):
I think it's about 10 years.
Might not want to admit it, butyeah, about 10 years.
Yeah, I think it's about 10years.
Yeah, might not want to admitit, but yeah, about 10 years.

Sara Greco (01:27):
So just again, thank you so much for coming on
the show, excited to talk to youa little bit more.

Dan Tulley (01:31):
Same here.
Sarah, it's great to see youagain and really great to see
how you've grown in your career,and I look forward to it.

Sara Greco (01:37):
Yeah, thank you so much.
So I knew I met you when youfirst came on as wing commander
at MacDill and now you areworking at Transcom
Transportation Command and it'sbeen kind of a journey for you.

Dan Tulley (01:54):
Yes, a lot of joint experience.
Good heavens MacDill was 2014to 2016.
And now in a joint job as thedirector of operations at US
Transportation Command Inbetween lots of different stops
on the air staff Wing commandedAUD for two years.
Holy cow, covid.
Everything else that's happenedsince then.
There's a lot in that 10-yearperiod.

Sara Greco (02:16):
Yeah Well, and we'll definitely get to that
10-year period, but I kind ofwant to go a little bit earlier
than that.
You've talked to me a littlebit about your leadership
experience, leadershipinspiration.
I guess I'd love to start withreally what inspired you to
become an officer in the AirForce and start that leadership
journey.

Dan Tulley (02:34):
I love that question because it's so easy
for me to answer.
So when I was a little kid Ialways heard about my father
having spent the first year ofmy life in Vietnam.
He was deployed for that entireyear and my mother God bless
her, she had my two oldersisters at the time we were each
13 months apart, and so justhearing that really got me
interested in the military and Ithink as I grew up, just

(02:57):
hearing his approach towardsservice and leadership and then
my own desire to serve kind ofcame together in a very
fortunate way.

Sara Greco (03:05):
And so you ended up going through Reserve Officer
Training Corps and that wholewicket.

Dan Tulley (03:10):
Yeah, reserve Officer Training Corps at Duke
University Go, blue Devils itwas.
It was an interesting path.
I knew since I was in highschool that I wanted to be in
the military and and I knew thatI wanted to be a pilot.
And it's because I had greatmentors.
I had my dad, and then I had ahigh school guidance counselor
who asked me hey, what would youwant to do if money and all of

(03:34):
that just didn't matter?
And so it's 1986.
Keep in mind, top Gun had justcome out.
So I kind of like to do that.
That sounds like a prettyawesome way to spend my life.
So I kind of like to do that.
That sounds like a prettyawesome way to spend my life.
And I ended up looking at theNaval Academy and really had a
tough time deciding between theNavy and Air Force, but went
with the Air Force and reallygrateful that I did.
Yeah, the Air Force is glad thatyou did too, as those two stars

(03:59):
say on your shoulder Wellthanks, it's humbling.

Sara Greco (04:02):
What would you say some of the leadership learnings
that you gathered early onthroughout the experience, like
through ROTC as a firstlieutenant pilot, like all of
that?

Dan Tulley (04:15):
What would you say you kind of saw early on in your
career.
You know, in ROTC and anycommissioning source, we take
people and we try and shape them, we work on character formation
and we really help to grow themand root them in the service.
And I will just say that the AirForce had a blank slate with me
, so a lot of work to be donethere.
But ROTC was a great foundation.

(04:36):
And then, really starting inpilot training, I would say
that's when I learned how tolearn, to learn and beyond pilot
training as an aircraftcommander in a large aircraft
with a lot of crew members and Istarted out in the KC-135, you
can't help but find yourselflearning to lead and that's what
the Air Force is trying toteach you.
So, first leading in smallsettings you know that crew, it

(05:00):
was great.
There was frequently pressure,there was a mission to be
accomplished and everybody lovesthat environment and then
progressing to become aninstructor pilot and then you're
teaching others, you're showingthem the ropes and what they
need to do.
It was, I hate to say, an idealleadership growth opportunity,
but it kind of feels like thatin retrospect.

Sara Greco (05:20):
Do you have a particular story of you being an
aircraft commander that justlike resonates with oh, this is
what it means to be a leader.

Dan Tulley (05:29):
There are so many, so I'll offer.
I've got a couple, because I'veflown a few different aircraft
but the C-130.
We were at then Fort Bragg.
We were the last aircraft in alarge formation of 20-some
C-130s.
I was flying with our Germanexchange officer.

Sara Greco (05:49):
Oh cool.

Dan Tulley (05:49):
He was in the right seat, I was the instructor
pilot in the left seat.
The weather wasn't what mostpilots would want for a large
formation.
It was pretty bad.
It was right at minimums,pouring down rain, and we were
listening on the radio becausewe couldn't see the other
aircraft and are all taken off.
You could hear the first oneget off the ground and so on and
so forth.
By the time it was our turn,there was a phenomenon where

(06:12):
wake turbulence settles on therunway and can really cause some
disruption to your aircraft.
We're rolling down the runwayand it hits us immediately,
despite all the techniques thatthe air force teaches you to to
avoid wake turbulence.
The aircraft's rocking androlling to the right and we keep
control of it and we'reclimbing away and you could just
hear.

(06:32):
It wasn't your standardformation takeoff.
There was a lot of chaos, uh itwas a training event, so that's
by design.
But we heard other aircraftbreak out of the formation.
We heard the lead aircrafthaving some issues with some
range space as the formationheaded into the range for
training to drop theseparatroopers.
We were carrying All that tosay.
It was an environment where youhad to say and do the right

(06:57):
thing.
You really didn't have thespace to make a mistake or to
say the wrong thing, given thatit's an airborne orchestra, you
know, rather than a bunch ofinstruments just making noise,
that formation is trying to makemusic and we're trying to put
those paratroopers on the dropzone.
Coming across the drop zone, Iwill not ever forget the sight
of paratroopers in front of usemerging out of the rain at a

(07:20):
safe altitude just below us, asthey should be.
But the entire thing wasunsettling, and so I tell you
that, to come back to thetraining that we received, the
confidence that we had in ourskills, you don't appreciate it
at the time.
You're gaining that experienceand you're learning those
lessons, but then, once you seeit in action, you gain a
different appreciation for itand I'm very thankful for what I

(07:43):
had learned all of the lessons,all the instructor pilots who
had put the time into developingus.
It was pretty interesting.

Sara Greco (07:51):
So it kind of created the reaction that was
desired from you as a leader.
Because you had all thattraining in place, you knew what
to expect even in the unknown.
You knew how you wanted toreact in the unknown.

Dan Tulley (08:06):
I like the way you put it it's the unknown, and
you're prepared for it, whetheryou realize it or not, and so
then, fast forward.
That translates into experienceover many years, and, when it
comes to leadership, I think youcan't shortchange experience.
You have to get as muchexperience as you can, and that,
ultimately, is what's going tomake you a better leader.

Sara Greco (08:28):
And even if it's practice scenarios, training
scenarios, those trainingscenarios are what create that
experience for you, as well asreal life scenarios.

Dan Tulley (08:38):
Right and we always talk about in the Air Force how
we like to train, like we fight.

Sara Greco (08:42):
Right.

Dan Tulley (08:42):
That night we were training like we were going to
fight short of an adversaryshooting at us.
Those conditions were as bad asit gets and we're still allowed
to train.
And here we are, a bunch ofairmen, a bunch of soldiers from
the 82nd out there getting itdone in the middle of the night.

Sara Greco (08:56):
Yeah, Successful you too.

Dan Tulley (08:58):
Thankfully yes.

Sara Greco (08:59):
Yes, you have had so many military assignments
stateside and overseas and nowhave a leadership position at
Transportation Command, so youdeal with situations around the
world, I mean.
Correct me if I'm wrong at anypoint of the day.

Dan Tulley (09:20):
Yes.

Sara Greco (09:20):
So you have to make a lot of decisions, you have to
kind of gather and grabinformation as you can.
How would you say that yourprevious experience maybe even
what we've kind of talked aboutwhen it comes to training or
your leadership experience kindof influences that approach to
leadership that you do today?

Dan Tulley (09:39):
Right.
So leadership at Transcom andthe director of operations.
So leadership at Transcom andthe Director of Operations the
J3 as we call it is one of thebest jobs I've ever had.
It's amazing.
It is nonstop, 24-7, all aroundthe globe, every combatant in
command working with all of theservices, lots of allies and
partners.

(10:02):
The experiences I've had haveprepared me in so many ways.
Frequently in the military, asenior leader will tell you, as
you're about to take a newposition or a new command,
you've got this, you're trainedfor it.
You may not think so, butyou're trained for it right and
you'll be ready, you'll be greatat it.
So I've gotten similar adviceover the years.
But at Transcom you can feeljust like that night over Fort
Bragg.
You can feel all of yourexperience to date coming to

(10:26):
bear.
But you're on a larger team.
So at Transcom and one of thethings that's grown about my
approach to leadership is how doI leverage the entire team?
How do I take the best thateveryone on the team has?
How do I set conditions where Ican leverage that team?
Nobody wants to be that singleleader that everything depends
on and then, heaven forbid,something happens to that leader

(10:47):
.
They go away?
Can the team carry on right?
The measure of success now iswhat kind of team can we build?
Can we have a high performingteam that's able to carry on
regardless of what disruptions,whether that's the leader moving
on or something along thoselines?
Can they keep the mission goingand make it happen?
Well, not suffer setbacks?

(11:07):
So all my previous experience,but getting to command over it
how you did in CENTCOM's AOR,the wing command experience in
MacDill, the group commandexperience I had at Fort Bragg
and flying the differentaircraft I did they all
contribute.
They give you a perspective.
They ground me in.
Okay, I know a little bit aboutthis.

(11:28):
I might not be the expert herein 2025 on that, but I have an
iron major who is and I can askher, I can ask him and they can
get me the answer withoutbatting an eye.
So I could probably go on there.
Does that trigger anyadditional questions or anything
specific?

Sara Greco (11:44):
Well, I think what was coming up for me was it
seems like part of yourleadership philosophy is
empowering the people around you, because you can't be the sole
leader in a way for theorganization, because if that's
the case, then it could possiblylead to failure.
But if you empower the peoplearound you with knowledge and

(12:04):
decision making, then that leadsto success.

Dan Tulley (12:07):
Right, and you know , one of my approaches is I like
to describe to my team as Iwalk in the door to some new
opportunity or some new position, some new role.
Here's what I think a highperforming team looks like, and
I'd like to ask them what do youthink a high performing team
looks like?
And invariably you'll describewhat that looks like.
People act on their owninitiative.

(12:28):
They get things done in atimely manner or sooner.
They deliver outcomes andresults.
But there's a connection there,and once you start to realize
that everybody's coming to worktrying to do a great job, by and
large nobody comes to workbecause they don't want to or
because they're miserable.
This is how they chose to spendtheir life.
So how do you tap into thatresource that's at your disposal

(12:50):
?
Sometimes the greatestchallenge is trying to find what
are the obstacles or barriersto different members of the team
being able to perform at theirbest and contribute.

Sara Greco (13:06):
So you say that you ask the question what do you
think a highing team is when youcome into a new role?
I do, and now I'm just curiouswhat has been the most
surprising answer you've everreceived?

Dan Tulley (13:12):
So typically as a general officer now I'll walk
into an organization that Imight not have experience in.
For example, I'd never signed atranscom before and walking in
the door to transcom I have anumber of direct reports.
I've got my deputies and I havea number of division chiefs
typically colonels and GS-15sand the value in asking them

(13:33):
because many had been attranscom before or they had
spent quite a bit of time therein their civilian career.
They will open my eyes tothings I never would have
thought of, I would never haveseen.
Within the J-3 portfolio atTranscom there's a lot.
I won't go into the specificsof all that's there, but they
open my eyes to that.

(13:53):
So then my challenge becomesokay, how do we fit this
together?
How do I understand wherethings are and how do we take it
to the next level if that'snecessary?
How do we keep the organizationfrom being stagnant?
Right, if it never changes,everything will change around it
and it'll just kind of fadeinto obscurity.
It'll become not a highperforming team.
So how do we keep challengingourselves?

Sara Greco (14:15):
This is very interesting because it's almost
like you're saying and pleasecorrect me if I'm wrong that you
don't have the most experiencein that particular area or the
most knowledge, so you rely uponyour teams and all the people
around you to help when you'remaking those decisions.

Dan Tulley (14:34):
Absolutely, and I think any leader has to get very
comfortable in that.
There are some cases or someexamples, and my mind goes to
accountability.
Right, a leader is accountablefor the organization.
You're putting a lot of faithand trust in your team because
you need to.
You can't be the expert oneverything.
The reason general officers arecalled general officers is

(14:56):
precisely that.
Right, you can't be an expertin everything, so you're a
generalist.
How do you then empower theteam and leverage their
expertise?

Sara Greco (15:06):
That's really interesting.
I've never heard that beforeand I appreciate that insight
because when there's aperception about leadership,
there's sometimes an outsideperspective and perception where
, when you reach a really highlevel of leadership, you have to
know all the ins and outs toreally make a good decision.
And it's interesting to hearand have that acknowledged where

(15:29):
actually it's almost the notthe entire opposite, but it
could be kind of on the otherend of the spectrum where it's
like you have general knowledgeand you have to trust the people
on your team and those that arethe experts to help make those
decisions.

Dan Tulley (15:44):
Absolutely, and you know I trace my experience with
this all the way back to myearly days flying large crew
aircraft, right In the KC-135,we'd have a navigator and he or
she would navigate the aircraft,you know, across the ocean.
We'd land on some airfield thatwe had never heard of before
and we trusted that it was thereand that the navigator was
going to get us there, and italways worked out.

(16:10):
So maybe from an early age inthe Air Force they kind of
inculcate you and make that partof your leadership development.

Sara Greco (16:14):
Yeah Well, I mean, it's the trust that had to be
built in order to survive and bemission successful.

Dan Tulley (16:21):
Yeah, trust is a great topic to dive into a
little bit.
Right yeah, with any team Iwork with, I talk about trust in
terms of character, competenceand judgment.
And there's a there's a greatbook called professionalism
Can't recall the author rightnow, but in that book they talk
about those three things andthat lets any leader very easily

(16:43):
talk to their team about whatit means to have trust.
And the author also talks abouthow it's held together with a
bit of an emotional glue.
So there's a little bit ofemotion in there, but it's
really interesting.
You cannot underestimate therole of trust in an organization
.
It's a two-way street.

Sara Greco (17:00):
Well, and that creates you mentioned
accountability from earlier.
That creates accountability too, because if you trust the
person, you're going to holdthem accountable, and vice versa
.

Dan Tulley (17:08):
Absolutely, and you can't have a simplistic view of
accountability.
You know I'm telling you to dothis.
If you don't do this, thenthere's this consequence.
That's the wrong approachalmost all the time.
It's okay, let's agree on theend, the end state or the
outcome.
Let's start with the end insight, and then how can we work
together to figure this out andget it done within the right

(17:31):
timeframe?
You know what I would call itthe speed of relevance.

Sara Greco (17:34):
That's a good one.
So, speaking of talking aboutdecision-making trust and
accountability, I'd love to heara little bit more about, maybe,
a time where you had to make adecision under pressure.
What did that look like, andmaybe could you tell us a little
bit about it and kind of youremotions and feelings in the
result.

Dan Tulley (17:53):
So what?
I'd tell you, my two years atAUD were one of the best
experiences of my professionalcareer.
Professional career I had theopportunity to command all five
of the Air Force's corefunctions in combat over a
two-year period, serving undertwo different three-star
commanders.
So I was the one-star commanderof Valued Air Base in the 379th

(18:15):
Air Expeditionary Wing.
2019, june of 2019, is when Istarted and I ended that command
tour in June or July of 2021.
This COVID these were theracial tensions in the United
States.
A lot was going on.
Iran was really adversarialthroughout the entire two year

(18:38):
time frame, to put itdiplomatically.
And so when I got there, one ofthe observations of my
three-star boss was hey, are weas ready as we can be should
something happen with Iran?
We took a look at the base.
A lot of new commanders come inevery year.
There were a couple who had hada previous year with us and we
agreed when we sat down hey,this base needs to increase our

(19:02):
readiness, we need to be readyshould Iran do something.

Sara Greco (19:05):
And so in the military, just like the rest of
the Department of.

Dan Tulley (19:08):
Defense and government.
Sometimes there's reluctance tochange.
What we thought we needed to dowas increase our ability to
protect the population.
We needed to rebuild bunkersthat hadn't been tended after
and cared for in years.
We needed to prepare the baseshould there be some sort of
attack.
We needed to understand howquickly the base could recover

(19:29):
All that to say.
We started to do those thingsand that was a series of
rapid-fire decisions to just getit done.
The whole team leaned into it.
Airmen who had deployed fromall over the United States
active duty, guard and reservewere building bunkers, they were
drilling, they were workingthrough all the things we needed
to do should Al-Yadid ever beattacked heaven forbid.
A few months downstream we gotto the Soleimani attack and that

(19:58):
was an emotional event for bothcountries.
Following that, there was anattack on Al-Assad Air Base and
I will never forget watching thetracks of those missiles from
Iran crossing into Iraq andthinking, wow, thankfully that's
not us, hopefully our comradesand teammates out there are okay
, but we had the satisfactionknowing that we were ready

(20:20):
should something like thathappen.
So it validated all of our hardwork, but it reinforced.
Sometimes, as a leader, youknow something needs to be done.
You just have to do it.
You just have to get it done.
Might not be popular.

Sara Greco (20:33):
Yeah, and that's and that's really hard because
you probably face a lot ofresistance sometimes when kind
of trying to create thatenvironment where you knew it
would be valuable to do thesethings and obviously that was
proven, but also having to facethat resistance from people who
might disagree with you.

Dan Tulley (20:54):
Right and it highlights a key thing for any
leader it's not a popularitycontest, it's about doing the
right thing.
It's about doing what yourorganization needs to have done.
I think Colin Powell talksabout this in his biography that
in his experience there aremany times when a leader will
need to do things that won't bepopular and a lot of times

(21:16):
people will not appreciate beingled in that moment, but later
on or downstream they probablywill.
The example I'd offer you isour public affairs office at IUD
received a number of calls,letters, emails from concerned
parents back home.
And they were asking thequestion what are you doing to
protect my son or daughter?
Is your installation as readyas it can be?

(21:37):
And we could sleep well,knowing that we had done
everything we could.

Sara Greco (21:41):
I'm sure that there's leaders listening to
this podcast.
They're like well, I'm in acorporate setting, so thank
goodness, I don't have people'slives on my hands.
But knowing that you havepeople's lives in your hands is
an additional pressure and itmakes decision making even more
important as you're proceedingin your career.

Dan Tulley (21:59):
All right, Let me say one other thing on the under
pressure decision making.
So it might be something that ayoung leader wouldn't think
about.
But consider the benefit ofcreating decision, what we call
decision space, Specifically, sothat it doesn't become this
constraint where we have to makean urgent decision or rush to
something that we might regretdownstream.

(22:20):
And that same concept, I think,applies at every level
downstream.
And that same concept, I think,applies at every level all the
way down to when I was aco-pilot in the KC-135.
One of the instructors wouldtalk about okay, so you have an
emergency in the aircrafttraining scenario and engine's
on fire.
What's the first thing you do?
And this instructor would teachpause.
You have 10 to 15 seconds whereyou can think about it.

(22:42):
The world will not end.
Far better to get things right,shut down the correct engine,
than to make your emergencyworse.

Sara Greco (22:49):
What do you foresee the decision-making space
looking like for other people,or what have you seen it look
like in your career that youhave found valuable, in addition
to that 10-second pause thatyou just mentioned?

Dan Tulley (23:02):
So in my work supporting other senior leaders,
where I was either working ontheir staff or directly for them
, providing options, if there'sonly one option that they're
considering or looking at, if Icould come forward and go you
know what there's two or threeother options here or other ways
to make this happen or to getto.
Yes, that is tremendouslyhelpful.

Sara Greco (23:23):
And I'm sure you're grateful to receive that,
especially in the position thatyou're in today.

Dan Tulley (23:28):
Yes there, there's always another way, almost
always another way.

Sara Greco (23:32):
Something that I've noticed, too, is, even if those
aren't the best options, theyprovide a brain power like the
decision-making thinking cyclethat helps you make a decision
in that space, Like, yes, thatmight not be the best decision,
and that's why this decision isactually a really good one.

Dan Tulley (23:55):
Yep, Just going through the process or the act
of planning.
It's typically not the endresult that is the greatest
benefit.
It's the process or the act ofplanning.
Get the right experts together,it's the process or the act of
planning.
Get the right experts togetherto have the necessary
conversations and see what elsemight come up as an option.

Sara Greco (24:11):
There's also the cognitive aspect right.

Dan Tulley (24:14):
So, if your team, if you're a leader and your team
provides you one option.
We really recommend this.
In the military there is commonpractice.
A lot of leaders will ask forat least three what we call
courses of action or options.
That helps you avoid thecognitive trap of just locking
in on one and all the cognitivebiases and the things that are

(24:35):
the way they are because we'rehumans.
Right, how do you set yourselfup to avoid that and then avoid
the challenges of human judgment?
Right, you can create orconstruct an environment where
your decisions are better.
The whole field of decisionscience gets after that.

Sara Greco (24:52):
I mean, it's a very interesting field, especially
as a leader, to kind of diveinto this, because lots of your
day is decisions.
When you're answering emailsand meetings, and I mean when
you're walking down a hall andsomebody talks to you to ask you
a question, it's a decisionprobably.

Dan Tulley (25:10):
It is yeah, and then your mind is always
thinking, okay, how can I get infront of that decision, how can
I think three steps ahead andhow can I set conditions for the
decision to be made such thatit goes the way that benefits
our organization or the missionwe're trying to accomplish?

Sara Greco (25:27):
What are some ways that you have personally seen or
you have helps to buildconfidence in decision-making
for leaders?

Dan Tulley (25:35):
That's so easy.
For me it's one simple thing ispractice.
How do I create an environmentwhere leaders can practice?
It's one thing to watch anotherleader and we talk about this
frequently with my Air Forcefriends who've been commanders.
There's being the commander andthere's being the deputy.
There's a world of differencein being the commander.
Who's responsible andaccountable?

(25:56):
The deputy learns tremendousamounts, sees lots of things,
but at the end of the daythey're not the one that has to
answer for it.
So put yourself in the positionof that commander, be that
person in the ring, so to speak.
And the more you can do that inany you know it can be small
things volunteering to sit on aboard, to host some talk, to

(26:20):
command that organization, todeploy and command that deployed
organization.
The more practice you can get,the better you'll be to command
that organization, to deploy andcommand that deployed
organization.

Sara Greco (26:29):
The more practice you can get, the better you'll
be.
It's very true.
So you were talking earlierabout leading during COVID in a
deployed environment.
There were a lot of unknowns.
We talked a little bit aboutyour decision-making and making
sure that there was a lot ofprep for situations that might
not or might occur.
You didn't know, but you knewwhat needed to be done.
How did you proceed to leadthose teams with the unknown and

(26:53):
kind of make sure that theyfelt one taken care of and two
knew the direction in which toproceed to help the mission be
successful?

Dan Tulley (27:03):
That is a great question because it's a great
challenge, also my approach hasalways been transparency and be
able to explain the why as aleader.
So what you just described, inthose situations, especially
during COVID, we couldn't alwaysexplain the why.
In the military sometimes it'ssomewhat simpler I won't say
easier because we just getdirection, but what you

(27:30):
articulated, sometimes wereceive direction that's
conflicting.
We see direction from multiplesources or we receive direction
through military channels thatmight conflict with direction
we're hearing from other sources, maybe the CDC or elsewhere.
Right, you just read the openpress.
And so, as a military leader,my approach has to be total
transparency.
Let's gather the facts, let'sunderstand why we're being asked

(27:51):
to do this and explain that,and if we can't, we'll go right
back up the chain of command andask is there a why here that we
can articulate to the men andwomen who are serving our
country?
I think those go a long waytowards helping.
Then you get into how quicklythings are changing in the
decision cycle, what we call theOODA loop.
Observe Orient, decide Act.

(28:12):
When that OODA loop gets sosmall that you can't keep
everyone aligned on where youstand, then it gets a bit
chaotic.
Then it gets a bit chaotic.
So create some space, buildsome time in and then align them
.
Here's where we're going andhere's why.
And if you have some folks whoaren't willing to come along
with you, then how do youaddress that?
And typically commanders in theAir Force at least group

(28:35):
squadron commanders, flightcommanders do a phenomenal job
communicating down and thencommunicating back up the chain.

Sara Greco (28:43):
How would you recommend to somebody who might
be receiving some of thatresistance for those that won't
come along, what recommendationsor advice would you give to
them to either help proceed orto help influence them to bring
them along in the decision?

Dan Tulley (29:01):
If you have the time.
Sometimes in an urgentsituation you might not, but if
you have the time, I would givethose people who aren't coming
along a voice.
I'd want to meet with them andI'd create the opportunity.
So if I put 500 people in alarge theater which would do a
lot at LAD, at Airbase, there'sthis human cognitive, behavioral
science tendency to not want tospeak up.

(29:23):
But if you give them a means tospeak that's anonymous and you
could use texting there's allkinds of apps that will display
their text responses on thescreen at the front of the
theater.
We would use that Then you'llstart getting some, some insight
and there'll be some some wheatand chaff that you have to
separate a little bit there.
At the end of the day, you'relooking for the feedback that

(29:45):
you can act on.
It's constructive, it will makethe organization better, it
will address the problem at handand invariably you can get that
.
And so a couple of situations inmy experience.
One was when I was the wingcommander at MacDill Air Force
Base.
I walked into the position andpeople had explained to me well,
there's a strong desire to havea charter school on this Right.

(30:09):
So the first thing I did was Iasked all of the airmen who
served at McTale Air Force Basedo you all want a charter school
?
And help me understand why.
I think that out of the 2000,3000 people we asked, one or two
hands went up 2,000, 3,000people.
We asked one or two hands wentup, the young man who answered
yes.
He stood up in the theater andsaid well, I heard the charter

(30:29):
schools are better and so I'dlike that for my child.
And that was the only personwho said he had a reason why.
That was insightful and led tothe outcome that exists there
today.
There's a K-8 school on basesponsored by Hillsborough County
, which is a great partnershipbetween the base and the local
school system.

(30:49):
And indeed I took the sametechnique there and we began to
ask the airmen Chief MasterSergeant Kenny Bruce was my
command chief master sergeantthere.
So we began to ask the airmen asthey arrived you know theater's
full 500 a ton.
What do you want?
What's the most important thingfor you?
And there were two things thatstuck with me.

(31:10):
One was fast, free Wi-Fi wasthe most important thing for
these airmen.
They were paid about 80 to $100for Wi-Fi.
That's just not right.
We're sending you to IUD,you're deployed for 90, 100 and
some days.
We should be able to provideyou Wi-Fi and with the help of
our senior leaders, we were ableto get fast, free Wi-Fi for all
of them.

(31:30):
The other one really threw me.
Our airmen said that we've madeit too confusing.
We've taught them standards,basic standards.
You know you salute a seniorofficer when you're outdoors.
You wear your hat outdoors.
They said we'd made it tooconfusing with all of the rules
and so consistent feedback fromour airmen was just do away with
all of the no salute zones andall the special car valves for

(31:52):
rules.
Just let us use the rules thatyou taught us in basic training
and we did that.
It was profound how happy itmade most of our younger airmen.
So things you don't expect butyour team will teach you.

Sara Greco (32:07):
I love these stories because they speak to a
fun choice of words.
For me, they speak to giving avoice for people to be heard,
and it's almost like it'stransparency in both directions,
because you, as a leader, aregiving transparency to the
people, but also the people arebeing transparent to you, and so

(32:29):
, by creating a channel in whichthere's receiving and giving,
it creates accountability andtransparency and communication
and a dialogue that helps givemore momentum and positivity to
a space, to a team.

Dan Tulley (32:46):
Yes, it's a better relationship if you think of it
as a relationship.
It's just a better relationship.

Sara Greco (32:51):
And I remember you used I wasn't working with you
for too long, but I rememberdistinctly having a town hall
with all the airmen and we usedan app to provide that texting
tool for the airmen, and Iremember how profound it was to
see people's voices on a screenin live time.

(33:13):
Uh, and you receiving thatfeedback and, from what I
remember, we didn't give you toomany notes.
You didn't like most all callswith a wing commander.
We would have a lot of notes, alot of talking points, and you
were very much there and receivemode and you gave what you
could.
But also there was momentswhere you're like, well, I don't

(33:34):
know this, we need to find outmore information.
I'm going to take it and Iappreciated that at as like a
young airman trying to figureout okay, what does leadership
actually look like?
What does it, how does it feeltoo?
And it was interesting to seethe dynamics in that room when
it first started to when we leftand it there was a dialogue

(33:58):
that was created that createdopenness, and I mean, when you
walk into an all call or allhands, everyone's like,
especially with the new leader,what's this going to look like?
What are the directions thatwe're going to receive, what are
his standards, what are his orher?
And it was very open and calmand I think that was just a very

(34:19):
different dynamic than what Ihad seen in the past.

Dan Tulley (34:22):
Right, yeah, and it took a while to learn that
right.
It took some experience at twoor three other locations and
positions, but the benefit foryou as a leader is really hard
to underestimate.
I can't say enough good thingsabout it.
And then it opens up all theseother feedback avenues.
So I'd be at the base gym orI'd be at the dining facility or

(34:42):
a restaurant and people wouldcome up to me and they'd say you
know, I didn't send this in,but here's something else you
should think about.
And then you're starting to getfeedback from all over the
place.
Pulling that thread, there wasanother time at Al Udeid in the
theater.
We were doing the same thing.
Chief Bruce and I and I won'tuse names or locations but a

(35:03):
young airman from a statesidebase had just deployed there and
it became clear he was havingsome real difficulties or some
real challenges, and I have avideo of this.
I wouldn't put his video outthere, but the public affairs
team was recording at the timeand so he stood up and it was
the most amazing thing I hadseen in a base theater type of

(35:24):
setting the entire mood changeas he started to explain his own
personal struggles and how hewas feeling a bit lonely and so
the loneliness resonated with alot of our younger airmen
because, as you probably know,there is a challenge with
loneliness these days and itmight be right in front of us
and we don't see it, but therewas open for all to see and so

(35:49):
everyone else you could justfeel it in the crowd they
started to.
Some of them were tearing up,some were.
You could see on their faces.
How do we help this guy?
So I asked the crowd okay, sothis young man is asking for
some help.
Who here wants to help him?
Every hand in that theater wentup.
It was unbelievable.

(36:09):
I wish I could articulate thereaction and the palpable
feeling in that theater, but itwas us as an air force and army,
marine corps, navy, coastguards.
We're all in this theaterbecause it leads to joint
installation.
But it was pretty amazing andto me it highlighted the
responsibility of a leader,things you don't see coming,

(36:31):
that you have to be ready for.
And how do we train that intoleaders for tomorrow?
Right, I'm a big believer thatall of our future leaders,
they're people I'm probablyworking with today.
How do I make all of thembetter than I could ever be, so
that they handle that situationeven better.

Sara Greco (36:48):
Right.

Dan Tulley (36:48):
So pretty, pretty interesting experience.

Sara Greco (36:51):
That sounds profound actually to see the
power of providing that forumsomebody being brave enough and
having the courage to stand upand say something and then
creating a environment thatpeople felt open enough to help.
That says true leadership.

Dan Tulley (37:10):
Yeah, and it's the character of that crowd right
these servicemen, women howthey're leaning in to help this
guy.
It makes you feel pretty darngood about the organization
you're a part of.

Sara Greco (37:20):
Kind of going back to the space that you created in
the theater.
That sounds like it was a toughtime for everyone around.
I mean stateside it was roughfor during the pandemic and then
I had heard through channelsabout how tough it was to be
deployed, especially howuncertain it was.

(37:42):
Channels about how tough it wasto be deployed, especially how
uncertain it was, how thingskept changing.
How did you figure out or learnto keep the morale I wouldn't
say high, but at least good, sothat people felt like they were
taken care of and had a littlebit of fun?

Dan Tulley (37:55):
Right.
So that was a challengethroughout all of 2020.
I remember we got away fromAl-Yadid briefly for a vacation
over the holidays 2019.
And then we came back and three, four, five weeks later, a
sequence of events started tounfold from Soleimani, some

(38:15):
Iranian attacks, covid,developing all the way through
the rest of that year, and so itchanged and shifted.
A couple of topics were comingtogether and, as a leadership
team, I couldn't have had abetter leadership team.
We were there and we were on itbecause of the folks on my team
, the group commanders andsquadron commanders really had a

(38:35):
finger on the pulse of theorganization.
I think IED was a little over10,000 folks at that time, but
we're flying the mission everyday up into Afghanistan, up into
Iraq, down into other locations.
We had also taken on theresponsibility to activate
another wing at Prince SultanAir Base in Saudi Arabia, the
378th Air Expeditionary Wing,and so I was splitting a little

(38:57):
bit of time between Al-Yadid andSaudi Arabia.
All of that to say, we kept ourfinger on the pulse of the
folks at Al-Yadid and SaudiArabia.
All of that to say, we kept ourfinger on the pulse of the
folks at Al-Yadid and keep inmind, these are forces that were
flowing in and flowing out.
So the direction from theDepartment of Defense was to
keep force flows going andmoving.
So that meant we had toquarantine people.
So we began a quarantineoperation that ultimately, I

(39:20):
forget, processed 10,000 to20,000 folks through a
quarantine period.
And then we learned, okay, isquarantine really effective?
We hadn't been testing when webegan to test.
It just kept changing andevolving, and so our approach,
working with our public affairsteam, was to just keep pushing
what we knew, and here's what weunderstand.
The guidance is here's what weknow and here's why we

(39:41):
understand.
The guidance is here's what weknow and here's why we're doing
these things.
That really kept most people inas good a place as they could be
and then listening to theirrequests.
So IED has a number ofrestaurants and some that serve
alcohol.
There was a request to can wefind a way to let people have a
beer, you know, night?

(40:03):
And so our chief mastersergeants, our senior NCOs, we
empowered them and said, okay,if you can come up with a way,
we'll sign off on it.
Outdoors, you were able tounmask at the time.
You had to keep a certaindistance, spacing, and all of
that based on the policy thatwas set by our elected officials
, and so we empowered them to dothat and they did it and it was

(40:24):
wildly popular.
Things didn't get out of hand,but I think folks were as happy
as they could be and we got alot of feedback that some folks
were happier than if they wereat home.
State or city that they mightlive in back home was much, much
more strict, much morerestrictive, given all the COVID
era regulations.

(40:44):
It was interesting.

Sara Greco (40:47):
It sounds like it.
I mean you can only do so muchwith what you know.
I mean there's the knownunknowns and unknown unknowns
and all of those.

Dan Tulley (40:55):
So one thing that stands out is sometimes I lose
sight of it, but the men andwomen that you serve with never
do.
We had a mission to do.
We actually had severalmissions to do that focused our
time and attention in findingsolutions to succeed at those
missions and to deter ouradversaries.
That probably drove a lot ofthe morale that we saw and we

(41:17):
set high standards.
All the leaders that I workedwith over there set high
standards and I've never seen anorganization with high
standards and low morale, evenduring a difficult time such as
2020.

Sara Greco (41:31):
That's very interesting.
Thanks for sharing all of thatEspecially.
I mean again, it seems likewe're always in unprecedented
times, but maybe it's just theperspective and maybe keeping
high standards is a good way toproceed and kind of the baseline
.

Dan Tulley (41:47):
Yeah, you certainly will know it if your standards
begin to erode.

Sara Greco (41:53):
And I still think it was interesting how the
airmen brought up just keepingthe basics earlier in the
conversation when you'redeployed instead of the no hat.
Earlier in the conversationwhen you're deployed instead of
the no hat, no salute zones.
It seems like a lot of times wewant that, but maybe what we
want is consistency.

Dan Tulley (42:09):
Yep.
That will forever stick with meas a key lesson taught to me by
our youngest airman.
My advice is to listen to youryoungest members of your team.

Sara Greco (42:23):
For sure, for sure.
So in the role that you're intoday, versus previous roles
that you've had, I imagine thatyour mindset and leadership
probably have to switch betweenviewing the strategic of the
strategy, of the whole situation, how every piece is going to
impact every other piece, kindof dialing it down to a tactical
where okay, other piece.

(42:43):
Kind of dialing it down to atactical where okay, here's this
and that's going to have a verytactical response to it.
How do you switch between thestrategic leadership and
thinking super high level downto tactical and really trying to
figure out how those impactsare going to happen at the
lowest level?

Dan Tulley (42:59):
That is something I wrestle with how to best
articulate it, so I'll take ashot here.
It's very clear what thePresident and Secretary of
Defense have asked us to do andso I would expect with the new
administration there'll be a newnational defense strategy, new
national military strategyforthcoming, and we'll respond
to those and align with those soas professionals we know to

(43:20):
anticipate those.
In the meantime, we listen tothe direction that we've
received and we're executing sothat strategic direction from
the President and Secretary ofDefense and the Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff and theJoint Staff.
We take that broad guidance andthen we're implementing down at
the operational and tacticallevel across all the combatant

(43:41):
commands.
But at the same time we'restill supporting operations in
CENTCOM's AOR, indo-pacom's AOR,ucom's, aor, and so there are
tactical to strategic threads ineach of those areas of
responsibility.

(44:04):
Our approach as a functionalcombatant command at TRANSCOM is
to scan.
Every morning we scan the worldfor general reid, our commander
, and we look at what we need tohighlight to his attention.
Most of the tactical issues wedon't need to highlight, but
from time to time there's atactical issue with a strategic
effect.
More often than not we'reupdating him on the strategic
outcomes and the operationaloutcomes of our support to his

(44:25):
fellow combatant commanders.
Does that make sense?

Sara Greco (44:29):
It does.
And I think the question thatcomes up most for me is how do
you figure out what tacticallevel information should go up
to?
The strategic level should goup to the strategic level Just
because I see when we havemeetings and things where some
people will overshare becausethey're like, well, I don't
really know what the highestlevel leader needs, and this

(44:51):
feels important to me, so Ithink that we should share it up
.
But how do you kind of filterthrough those efforts and make
sure that the strategic level isin fact what they receive, even
if it has a little bit oftactical in it?

Dan Tulley (45:04):
I love that you brought this up, sarah, because
I'm very passionate about thisand you might recall.
So, at the current point in mycareer, my recommendation to my
team, my direction to my team,is we really need the right
input at the right time from theright person.
It's that simple.
Now that encompasses a lot,right, and so I'm also a fan of

(45:26):
brevity and clarity, andexcellent communication skills
help tremendously in anyleadership role.
So how we do that, you have toset conditions where you can
provide that guidance to afairly large team and then have
them effectively implemented.
Right, and so our notion ofcommand and control.

(45:48):
There's joint doctrine andjoint publication, three TACO,
and there's lots of writings onthis.
But for our combatant command,a functional combatant command
with global, all the mainresponsibilities, it has to be
simple guidance.
And I'll give you the examplethat a lot of our service
members at Transcom seem toreally enjoy.
If you watch the Star Trekseries of movies, you'll see

(46:12):
what I think is called theSenate and you'll see these,
maybe hundreds of thousands ofdifferent representatives in a
circular auditorium and there'sso many voices that one slides
out, says something, goes back.
So if you have that image inyour mind, that's what I would
call command and control 1.0.
If I have 10 to 20 people on myteam, we can do that.

(46:36):
I can take 10 to 20 inputs.
If I have 50, 100, 300, now it'sstarting to look like the
Senate in Star Wars and I need abetter command and control 2.0.
So for us that's the guidanceMake the right input at the
right time.
You the right person.
This could be a representativefrom one of the three-letter
agencies.
This could be somebody fromanother combatant command, like

(46:57):
a liaison officer.
It could be somebody on our ownstaff.
But the world is moving soquickly and there's so much
going on.
We really need to get togetherand have that right input made.
That right input might bestrategic, operational or
tactical, but our team, througha lot of practice, has gotten
very adept at this.
I would say I don't want tojinx us, but I'd say we've

(47:20):
gotten exceptionally good atthis.
But then we have to take it tothe next level and prepare for
you know, heaven forbid the nextwar that our nation might,
might find ourselves in, right?
So if I increase the scope andscale of those interactions 10

(47:41):
or 20 fold, will our system,will our approach withstand that
?
Will it be sustainable?
That's something we work onevery day to make sure that we
are able to sustain that.

Sara Greco (47:46):
And it's interesting that you mentioned
kind of no matter what the levelis.
It's the right person, theright information at the right
time, like it's.
That's what's most important,it's not the level of
information.

Dan Tulley (47:57):
And if I can trust the team to do that which I do
every morning at 730, then we'recooking with gasoline, so to
speak, because they're makingthe right input and I'm not or
another leader in the buildingis not having to try and figure
that out.
And then I go up and I presentthe information that came from
the team to General Lee for hisawareness and if he has
questions we come back and wesort through it come back and we

(48:23):
sort through it.

Sara Greco (48:23):
And this can happen at any organization, at any
level, because even forcorporations, companies,
nonprofits, the higher theamount of people and the higher
the amount of levels that existin an organization, the harder
it is to do something like this.

Dan Tulley (48:37):
Absolutely, and I would say you should use
technology and all the thingsthat are out there that help you
do this better.
And we're in the probably inthe fourth month of a new
technology initiative that ismaking worlds of difference.
I won't get into the specificsof the software and the system
and how we're employing it, butthe theory is that we
democratize the data and theinformation that's available,

(48:59):
because then I get more eyes onit and maybe one set of eyes is
more willing to speak up and sayyou need to know this than
another set of eyes.
But it also helps to align theteam on a very large scale, and
that's priceless.

Sara Greco (49:13):
I know we're kind of coming up on time and there
is something that I definitelywant to talk to you about before
we end our conversation.
But in your LinkedIn bio, youmentioned being both a coach and
a water boy as kind of ananalogy.
So how do humility and servantleadership play into effective

(49:34):
leadership?
Specifically, how has it playedinto your type of leadership?

Dan Tulley (49:38):
Right, humility and credibility are critical for
any leader.
Humility is also a bit ofpersonal preference in there.
Right, some leaders, it's justtheir nature they're more humble
than others.
I would hopefully put myself inthat category, but I'd have to
ask for feedback from the folkson the team, the team.

(50:05):
The humility makes youapproachable.
The humility makes you not theexpert on everything, not the
smartest guy or gal in the room,but you have to.
At the higher levels ofleadership, the further you
progress, you have to really beaware of how you're perceived
and that can't happen withoutfeedback all the time.
And I'm forever asking forfeedback.
I love 360 feedback.
Like I say, I love 360 feedbackfor the benefit.

(50:26):
It's not always fun to goreceive, but that feedback will
make you as a leader better.
So, being a coach, you have todevelop your team.
That's my theory of victory isthat every one of the folks on
my team will probably and shouldbe better than I am at some
point, hopefully in the nearfuture.

(50:46):
And if I put that level ofeffort into their development
and coaching them and bringingthem along, then that only helps
the team grow stronger, helpsall of them, which is the intent
.
Humility is interesting.
I've wrestled over the yearswith, as I watch, other leaders
are they humble or not?
And then maybe, for example, Iworked outside of an
organization, then I got to be apart of it and my perspective

(51:08):
would change.
People form all sorts ofperceptions about leaders,
especially if they're in highlyvisible positions, because the
leaders I've met, certainly inthe Department of Defense,
pretty humble once you get toknow them, and not necessarily
what you might see in socialmedia or in the news media and

(51:29):
in other locations if that'syour only interaction with them.

Sara Greco (51:44):
It's interesting that you say that, because I
have seen over the course of mycareer that and as a joke I say
this like I just pinned onLieutenant Colonel and I'm like,
oh, now I'm funnier because I'ma higher rank and so people
have to think I'm funnier.
So as people get higher in rank, I often wonder if they realize
how much their rank affects howwhat they say is received from
others.
Because a lot of times if acolonel says hey, I wonder if

(52:05):
this would be a good idea.
When it trickles down it's likehey, colonel so-and-so wants
this done now, and I'm like butdid he actually, he or she
actually say that, or did theyjust wonder aloud and speak
aloud?
So I've often wondered, I guess, how it feels to be in a
position where you're like Iwant to make sure that what I'm
saying and how I'm saying it isperceived in the way that I

(52:30):
would like it to be.

Dan Tulley (52:31):
Yeah, that's great.
And, lieutenant Colonel Greco,you are the funniest Lieutenant
Colonel I've ever met.

Sara Greco (52:37):
I appreciate that.

Dan Tulley (52:38):
I think of this in terms of leadership.
What you just touched on Ithink of in terms of leadership
capital, and I forget where thenotion came from.
It certainly wasn't my originalthought.
But give some thought.
As a leader, who's spendingyour leadership capital and how
are they spending it?
If there's somebody below youin the organization who's saying
, well, General Tully said to dothis, you need to be aware of

(53:01):
that.
But you know, in fairness, youreally can't fault anybody if
you didn't give them guidance.
So I try, into my initialguidance with the team in that
first conversation, to say, hey,I have no problem with you
spending my leadership capitalso long as I'm aware that you're
doing it and I'm comfortablethat you would align with me.
There are examples of reallydoing that well.

(53:22):
And then there's examples of,you know, burning somebody
else's leadership capital theymight not even be aware of,
which doesn't help them or theorganization.

Sara Greco (53:30):
That's interesting because I have heard that
methodology.
I haven't heard it calledleadership capital and it's an
interesting dynamic to seek andit also builds trust and
empowerment.

Dan Tulley (53:46):
Yep, one thing I watch for when I'm sitting in a
forum with a senior leadercertainly someone who outranks
me I watch for how many peoplenod, especially as the senior
leader is new in the position,just on the table and notice all
the nods Approach.
But you're signaling somethingand it's what you observe.
When I went to my wingcommander course for the Air
Force for the first time beforegoing to MacDill, the senior

(54:07):
mentor, a major general about toretire, cautioned that you know
you are now the sun and you'reabout to be surrounded by
thousands of daisies who aregoing to look up at that sun as
you track across the sky,smiling brightly, and it's a
great analogy.
It makes me laugh every time Ithink of it, but it's very true
and it's something to be awareof.

(54:28):
And so how do you get throughthat?

Sara Greco (54:30):
and to have the real conversation, Well, and
that's also where humility comesin staying humble throughout
those moments, it's like,instead of seeing yourself as
the sun, you're looking at thedaisies and be like are they
actually getting what they needat this point and really
understanding their perspective,instead of just assuming that

(54:51):
everything is all sunshine anddaisies.

Dan Tulley (54:54):
Right, and you know .
Another great point forhumility is make your folks know
, make them aware that you twoare human.
Surely they know this right,but sometimes it doesn't hurt to
remind them.
You know, if I told you thestory of my wife and how we met,
we're introduced by a goldenretriever.
That one at some point, or anyof the things, deal with the

(55:14):
challenges we deal with with ourchildren.
There's a lot there.

Sara Greco (55:18):
And I?
Just a reminder no matter how,what your rank or if you have
the corner office and thehighest level of a building like
you are still human and, as mydad says, each person still puts
on pants one leg at a time yep,absolutely.

Dan Tulley (55:33):
And then, uh, you know, it comes home when
somebody else you know maybeyou're having a busy day as a
leader, maybe you're a littlefrustrated or whatnot.
Invariably there's somebody whowill come along and even ask
you how are you doing?
Might be a senior NCO, might besomebody on your staff, but
take that as great feedback thatsomebody recognizes you're

(55:54):
human too, and don't be too hardon yourself.

Sara Greco (55:57):
Right, just give yourself a little bit of grace
as well.
Yep, I do have one finalquestion that I'd love to ask
you, and it's really as you lookthroughout all your experience,
all that practice that you'vetalked about, and building that
humility and empowering othersand kind of learning, your
leadership philosophy, what isone piece of advice that you

(56:19):
give to those that are in theiremerging leadership role right
now?

Dan Tulley (56:23):
One piece of advice for emerging leaders be to
maintain an open mind, and anopen mind to me means that
you're constantly pursuingknowledge, you're reading,
you're learning.
You're not just relying on yourown experiences.
You're going back andcorrecting.
You're learning from mistakesyou may have made.
You're looking at your pastperformance critically.

(56:44):
Have an open mind to all ofthat feedback that you give
yourself and the feedback othersgive you.
That's really the only way Ithink you're going to grow as a
leader, but it starts with anopen mind.

Sara Greco (56:54):
I love that.
Well, sir, thank you so muchfor coming on the show today.
I really appreciated ourconversation.
I learned a lot, and I knowthat our audiences will learn a
lot too.
So thank you again for yourtime.

Dan Tulley (57:05):
Thank you, sarah.
It's been an honor and, justlike serving with you, it's
always a blast.
So thank you so much.
Really enjoyed it.

Sara Greco (57:12):
Thanks for listening to another episode of
Lead Into it.
If you enjoyed this episode, itwould mean a lot to me if you
would leave a review on ApplePodcasts or Spotify to help
future listeners.
If you want to learn more aboutthe podcast or me, go to
leadintoitco.
That's leadintoitco.
Thanks again.