November 10, 2025 • 33 mins
In this exclusive conversation, Michael Gayed, founder of The Lead-Lag Report, sits down with Will Rhind, CEO of GraniteShares, to discuss the booming demand for options-based income ETFs like YieldBoost — funds generating 50% to 150% annual yields through innovative option strategies.
They unpack:
- Why rates are headed lower (and what it means for investors)
- How YieldBoost ETFs work and generate high income
- The truth about NAV erosion and downside protection
- What a diversified income portfolio could look like in 2025
- How investors are rethinking “safe yield” in a new market era
Lead-Lag Live brings you inside conversations with the financial thinkers who shape markets. Subscribe for interviews that go deeper than the noise.
#YieldInvesting #OptionsIncome #ETFs #HighYield #Investing #Finance #LeadLagReport #GraniteShares
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Uh if you are an advisor and you have to be in an
office with other advisors or uhyou're not an advisor, but have
some people around you, uh, letthem know that this is
happening.
I think it's gonna be a goodconversation between me and the
founder of Granite Chair, Mr.
Will Ryan, talking about uh atopic which is always near and
dear to most people's hearts,which is getting more income,
especially in a world whereyields are uh questionable in
(00:32):
terms of where they're going andin a world where taxes, uh,
depending upon which stateyou're in, may be going up.
Uh, that's a little hint givenour backgrounds here as far as
where Will and I are based outof.
Uh, for those that are here forthe CE credits, I will email you
afterwards to get yourinformation.
I'll submit that to the CFPboard.
Just stay to the end of thediscussion here.
If any of you want to askquestions during this roughly
half an hour conversation, putit in the chat, but in the QA,
(00:52):
we'll bring it up and we'll makethis as interactive as possible.
Uh so with that said, my name isMichael Gaia, publisher of the
Lead Lag Aport and founder ofLead Lag Media.
Uh joining here is Mr.
Will Rind of Grant Shares.
I feel like Will, uh some peoplemay not be familiar with the
Grant Shares, but they should begiven that you're at 13 billion,
I think, now in AUM.
Uh so give a little context asfar as the firm and uh and what
you guys do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Yeah, sure.
So um morning everybody.
Will Rind, uh founder and CEO ofGranite Shares.
We're an ETF issuer um basedhere in New York City.
We issue also some differenttypes of ETFs, but as Michael
said, we're about 13 billion inassets under management.
And we have an array ofstrategies here in the United
(01:32):
States, in Europe, and uh inAsia as well.
Probably the two things thatwe're most well known for are
leverage single stocks.
So on a day like today, wheneveryone's voting on uh Elon
Musk's uh$1 trillion paypackage, and there'd be a lot of
activity, I'm sure, in our 2xlong and short uh Tesla ETFs, so
(01:54):
TSLR and TSDD.
Uh leverage single stocks arehugely popular product category.
And then we have our yield boostETFs, which are, as the name
might imply, uh very highyielding ETFs, typically around
50 to 150% per annum.
Uh, these are ETFs that useoptions to generate these very
(02:16):
high yields and um somethingthat has just become a hugely
popular asset class uh intoday's world.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
We're definitely going to touch on yield boost,
but let's just talk big picturefor a second here.
Um everyone was convinced thatwe're gonna have a series of
multiple rate cuts.
And here comes Powell basicallyputting some cold water on that
thought.
It's not a foregone conclusion,I think was the quote.
Um I know as a as an ETF issuer,you're not necessarily out there
making calls on monetary policy,but I'm curious to hear your
(02:45):
thoughts on where you thinkrates might be going because
that will impact the uh uhdiscussion around yielding
ideas.
Well, rates are going down.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
Um I think the question really is how fast um
and to what particular level.
And irrespective of the kind ofend, let's call it the end of
the Powell era and you know,where we get to before um Powell
steps down, a new chair isappointed.
(03:18):
But rates are on the way down.
I think it's clearly a huge uhpoint for the new chairperson to
get rates down.
Clearly, the administrationwants rates way lower than where
they are just now.
Um so whether whether we getanother cut uh before end of
year, I think most likely yes.
Um, but the the government shutdown, I guess, as long as that
(03:39):
goes goes on, creates someuncertainty.
And perhaps uh some of the someof the committee members um can
have pause there.
But you know, rate rates arecoming down, and that's really
the the crux of thisconversation as to why you know
people are looking for forhigher yielding assets.
SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
Maybe like five, six years ago, I used to always say
when we were in zero interestrate policy, uh they want yield
when there is none.
Now they don't want yield whenthere is some.
I'd now add a third layer tothat.
But the yield they want isreally high yield.
Right.
Um talk us through a little bit,sort of from your vantage point,
(04:18):
the way demand has shifted interms of looking for higher
yielding instruments outside ofbonds.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
I mean, I think that there's you know, there's
clearly not one answer toexplain all of this.
It's a um, you know, it's a bitit's a broad church in terms of
people's needs and wants.
But ultimately, I think what'sgoing on when it comes to the
high yield, at least the spacethat we traffic in, um, is the
(04:48):
rates that people are getting umin the bond market are just not
high enough when you take intoaccount inflation.
Now, I'm not necessarily talkingabout um the official CPI
number, although when you takethat into account, it clearly
does detract significantly fromthe sort of rates uh in markets,
but the unofficial sort ofinflation numbers.
(05:11):
And you know, there's a growingmovement of people, I think,
that are looking to create anindependent source of income
outside of their job.
And, you know, perhaps this isabout on one level uh just
financial freedom, being able tosleep at night.
Perhaps another level, it'sprudence uh in terms of creating
(05:33):
a secondary source that you knowprovides a backstop if you were
to lose your job, particularlypeople are nervous about AI and
just the economy more broadlywhen it comes to job security at
this time.
And so the idea of creating anindependent source of passive
income, I think, is veryappealing to a large uh section
(05:56):
of the investor class today, andthat's growing at a very
significant rate.
I mean, I think the the flowsinto options-based income ETFs
are really quite staggering.
Um, and again, I think that thatsort of narrative explains uh at
least in part, you know, what'sgoing on.
(06:16):
I think you throw in thevolatility of the bond market
and how bond portfolios letpeople down, um, particularly,
you know, in the Fed easingcycle, sorry, the Fed rate hike
cycle.
Um, and you know, perhaps thefact that bonds were were not
the safe haven that um peoplewere sold that they were.
(06:38):
Um you add that into mix, and Ithink it's people saying, well,
if bonds aren't as safe as theywere, then you know, the risk
part I'm sort of more okay with.
I'm just looking for for higheryields and I want consistency of
income.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
I wonder how much of that is um just a shift in
trust.
Like investors don't trust bondissuers because uh the the Fed
will step in and inflate it awayand certainly doesn't trust U.S.
Treasuries, right?
As we've seen given the wayduration, versus trusting
private enterprise.
I mean, is there is there maybea a shifting the way people just
think about where they shouldtrust their capital?
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
I think when it comes to treasuries, at least to
money markets, it's not it's nota trust issue in my in my book.
I think investors have noproblem parking money in
treasuries or money marketfunds.
And it's not about trust, it'sabout um pure risk reward.
And clearly with rates comingdown, you know, there's a
(07:35):
there's a huge amount of moneythat's sitting in treasuries and
money market funds at themoment, trillions and trillions
of dollars.
And you know, that that was allfair and good when you know
rates were 5%.
But if we're going to a levelsignificantly lower than 5%, and
a low at a rate again that afterinflation rates actually go
(07:56):
negative again, uh, or or atleast are negligible, then
there's an argument that wheredoes that capital go?
And a lot of that capital'scapital is going to come off the
sidelines, go out of thesefunds, whether it's treasuries
or money markets, and intorisk-bearing assets.
So some of those will clearly gointo higher yielding elements of
(08:17):
the bond market, but a lot willgo into equities or go into
alternative sources of income,like uh options-based income
ETFs.
And so that's, I think, more thecase that as rates come down,
you'll see a lot of that moneyin motion, and that money is
going to find its way into moreproductive areas of the
(08:38):
ecosystem, be it just straightequities or dividend equities or
something like the options-basedincome ETFs.
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
So you hit on that point that this, I think you use
the word staggering in terms ofthe demand for some of these
options income strategies.
Let's um let's go basic for theaudience and explain how you
generate income from options,but then after that go deeper
because there's a lot ofdifferent ways of doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
So at its simplest point, when you sell anything,
that you get something inreturn.
And what you get for that iscalled a premium, and that can
be distributed out toshareholders in the form of
income.
So you have specific optionstrategies where you sell an
(09:21):
option on an underlying assetthat generates an amount of
cash, you distribute that cashto shareholders, and that's your
distribution or your income oryour yield, whichever way you
you like to look at it.
So it is simplest level, that'swhat's going on.
And you sell options onunderlying assets that could be
(09:41):
stocks, that could be ETFs.
Um, but this is a very, verysort of liquid and growing
market that enables you togenerate yield from an
underlying asset, be it a stockor an ETF.
So I think it's fair to say thatthe majority of these strategies
are, like you said, a coveredcall strategy.
And that means in its sort ofsimplistic term, that you own
(10:05):
the underlying asset, be it astock or be it an ETF, and you
sell a call option on thatunderlying asset.
And so by doing that, youreceive a premium for that.
Um, that caps your upside tothat underlying ETF or stock in
the form of the premium youreceive, but you are still
(10:27):
exposed 100% to the downside ofthe movement and price of that
underlying asset.
So that that that's a verypopular strategy for people that
are again looking for yield.
So, what Yield Boost does is adifferent version of that,
slightly more efficient versionof that in our view, where
instead of selling a calloption, we sell a put option.
(10:49):
So that's a bit more efficientin our book.
And then simultaneously, we buya put option.
So we complete the incomegeneration part of the spread,
um, which is selling that putoption to generate income, but
we simultaneously buy a putoption, which provides some
downside protection.
So that's called a put spreadstrategy where you're selling
(11:11):
one option, you're buyinganother, and then you're
capturing the exposure withinthat spread.
SPEAKER_00 (11:18):
So I think this is actually incredibly important.
Um, because in most investors'minds, they tend to separate
yield from the underlying valueof the asset.
Right.
So I remember in 2008, a lot ofmanagers got in trouble because
they said, well, it's money goodbecause I'm still getting my
yield, and then the underlyingasset blew up.
(11:39):
In the case of yield boosts, youare having some insurance
protection with that put thatyou're buying, which is what
these cover call strategies donot have.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
So in in simple, in simple terms, um, it's a design
improvement.
It allows for that element,which of course is is designed
to provide some protectionagainst the obvious weakness of
covered calls, which is theincome is nice typically, but
you're giving 100% exposure tothe downside.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Aaron Powell So is it fair to say that over a long
enough market cycle, that typeof approach would have better
risk-adjusted total return thana cover call only strategy?
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
Um it's always difficult to say in generality,
but yes.
I mean, typically what we findis when we observe periods of
actual realized volatility, insome cases the realized
volatility of the yield booststrategy is lower than the
actual underlying, let's sayit's a it's Tesla, for example,
um, then although yield boostsgenerate such high yields, we
(12:42):
sell options on underlyingleveraged ETFs.
That's the the way that we'reable to generate the kind of
yields that you see.
And while leveraged ETFs arevolatile, when you put it within
the confines of the put spreadstrategy, the actual realized
volatility numbers can be evenlower sometimes than the stock
itself.
Um so again, depends on theperiod of time you measure.
(13:04):
Um, but that spread, becauseit's a defined outcome, um, can
limit risk sometimes less thanthe actual underlying itself,
ultimate underlying.
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
So as some of the uh individual yield boost funds for
a second here, um, because thedistribution rates are pretty
eye-popping.
I mean, here's AMYY, which is onAMD, 100% plus distribution
rate.
I know you do the announcementsuh weekly, usually on
Wednesdays.
Uh how are you getting thoserates that high?
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Well, I mean, the secret is that um if you take a
stock like AMD, um, there willbe very liquid options market on
AMD.
So if you just sell an option onAMD, you receive a premium.
And that premium, the value ofthat is derived from its what we
call implied volatility, whichis a number.
So let's, for argument's sake,say the implied volatility is 60
(13:55):
in the market.
Well, if you sell exactly thesame option on a two times
leveraged AMD ETF, then allthings being equal, the premium
that you receive will be twotimes that of the unlevered
underlying.
So instead of 60, it would be120.
And so automatically you'recapturing two times the premium
(14:17):
as if you sold an option on thestock.
So when you capture two timesthe premium, that's two times
the amount of income that youcan distribute out to
shareholders.
And because you're capturing somuch premium, then we use some
of that premium to buy uhdownside protection.
And that's effectively thestrategy.
So it comes from selling optionson the underlying, but if you
(14:40):
sell options on a leveragedunderlying, then you can
generate two times the premiumif it's a two times ETF, or
three times the premium if it'sa three times ETF.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Uh is it fair to say, again, speaking about
generalities, that when you'relooking at the options market in
the levered space, these it'sthere's a lot more inefficiency.
So you the the premiums are arem more mispriced, which is the
benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
I'm not sure whether it's uh inefficiency, because
you know, at the end of the day,it's an instrument that can be
arbitraged.
So if there's a mispricing,people will arbitrage that
difference.
I think it might be fair to saythat in some cases there's less
liquidity or the options marketis less developed than the
(15:24):
equivalent for, let's say, anunderlying stock.
And in that case, the benefit ofdoing something like a yield
boost strategy is by usingbespoke option options contracts
that are negotiated directlywith brokers to generate
premium, as opposed to justbeing limited to trading listed
options.
Um, so there's more flexibilitythat we have as an active
(15:48):
manager um within that space,but ultimately, to the extent
that there's a mispricing, um,it's not in a sort of
traditional sense.
It's more an opportunity, anarbitrage opportunity for
people.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
You hear this term often nav erosion.
Um I know one of your competitorfund families uh is getting a
lot of heat for some of thethings that's happening on that
end.
Uh tide is maybe turning on someof these types of products that
are not as thoughtfullydesigned, I think, as the yield
boost strategy is.
Um let's talk about what naverosion is and maybe what why
(16:22):
investors are underestimatingthe potential of it in a more
normal market, which isn't justgoing up the way it's been going
up.
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
I mean, it's just a it's just a catchphrase, if you
will, for what we talked aboutwith covered call.
So it's something that um isvery much synonymous with
covered call ETFs.
And again, just simply goes tothe to the fact that you're
capturing um the premium, butyou're capturing all the all the
downside.
So when you sell effectively theupside away, you get a premium
(16:52):
for that, but in return, theexposure is 100% to the
downside.
So therefore, if the underlyinggoes down, then the value of
that ETF goes down, aka the navgoes down.
That's what people are talkingabout specifically when they
talk about nav erosion.
So it's really just somethingthat um is present with any
(17:14):
strategy where you don't have adownside protection with
options, but particularly withcovered calls.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
Um okay, so so as far as the fund suite, you've
been you know uh at a towardpace of launches, right, on
single stocks.
Um let's talk about the fundlineup currently.
And then I want to touch on thebroad-based averages, you know,
the cues, the the uh SP typeyield boost uh plays there.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Yeah, I mean, we we've really expanded um quite
significantly the offering foryield boosts.
So I think we're up to 14 or 16funds now.
Um and it was only a few weeksago it felt like we were just
adding the tenth fund.
So the the range is expandingquite significantly.
We've just added new funds um tothe lineup, including Mara, a
(17:58):
yield boost Mara, uh yield boostIONQ, um, yield boost SMCI,
yield boost um MSTR, and others.
So the the range is reallyexpanding quite significantly.
And I would say that what'sinteresting is you know, all of
these have different sort ofyield profiles.
And so the more volatile theunderlying, typically, the the
(18:20):
more um yield that is able to begenerated.
So you might have something likea Coinbase, um, yield boost
Coinbase, which is generatingaround 150% um per annum.
And then you have a new anewcomer like uh Yield Boost
Mara or Yield Boost IonQ, whichis also up around that 150%
(18:41):
level.
And then you have something morediversified, like you said, like
the uh yield boost spy, yieldboost um triple Q, and those are
around the 50% level.
So a lot a lot less yield, butum you know more diversified
than the than the singleunderlyings.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Uh the largest one of the fund family is the uh
Tesla one T S Y Y.
You can see that on the bottomof the screen.
And then the others obviouslyare getting some good traction.
Um maybe just for those that arecurious about the uh the newer
ones like the meta uh and uhMSTR, the smaller ones in AUM,
talk about liquidity.
Um if there's concerns thatinvestors should have when they
look at smaller funds on AUM.
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
I mean, I think um there's always an element of
people looking at the number ofshares that are traded on the
screen and you know havingconcerns about a fund that has
light volume as a as opposed toa fund that has clearly
significant volume.
I think the thing to alwaysremember is with ETFs, that is
(19:43):
um ETFs are open-ended.
So that means we can manufactureshares on demand.
So, in other words, if you seeum, let's say a very, very small
amount of shares trading on theexchange, you might see an
average daily volume of, say, athousand shares.
Somebody wants to put an orderin for 10,000 shares, then it's
not like a stock where thatorder can't be completed or
(20:06):
would have to be worked in overseveral days.
It goes to the market maker whowould come to us, we create more
shares, or they wouldtechnically create more shares,
um, and then use those to sellto the customer that's looking
to buy 10,000.
So the supply and demand ofthese ETFs expands and contracts
um accordingly.
(20:26):
So when you see an ETF thesmall, you know, don't ever make
the mistake of thinking thatthat doesn't equal liquidity
because with ETFs, um, they'reable to expand and contract.
I think that's kind of goes backto the very dawn of ETFs, and
you know, we're still talkingabout it to this day, that um
the trading volume does notequal the liquidity when it
(20:47):
comes to ETFs.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
The thing about your product suite is that there's a
product for pretty much anyoneand everyone, right?
Um so there will be some thatare listening to this that uh
may not be super into yieldboosts.
A lot of people will be intoyield boost, but again, I'm
still looking for high income.
Uh you have more than just yieldboosts.
So I want to touch on HIPS hereuh because I think this is
really interesting, fun, goodhistory.
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Uh, we should yeah, so HIPS is um a another high
income ETF, but it's not a bondETF.
And when we say high income, wejust mean something that um
would, by all traditionalmetrics, be uh high yielding.
So HIPS is around 10% per annum.
And HIPS invests in pass-throughsecurities.
So pass-through securities are asection of the market where you
(21:28):
have REITs, you have closed-endfunds, you have BDCs and MLPs.
All of these, all of thesedifferent securities, um they
all have in common the fact thatthey don't pay corporation
taxes.
So they distribute by lawsubstantially all of their
income to shareholders.
So they're they're a good assetfor those people looking for
(21:51):
income and consistency ofincome.
So HIPS is a is an interestingproduct because it it's designed
to produce income.
Um but what I think is differentuh about HIPS is not only that
it has exposure to those fourunderlying asset classes within
the pass-through security world,but it pays a fixed cash
distribution of 10.75 cents pershare per month.
(22:14):
So that means that when you buyit, you're effectively locking
into uh the yield at that time,which can be attractive to a lot
of people who were looking tobudget a certain yield number or
add a certain yield number totheir portfolios.
So HIPS is an interesting assetclass.
And I think um it's it's almostespecially interesting today
(22:34):
because the performance of HIPSthis year hasn't been that
great.
And the reason for that is allthe concerns in the market
around private credit.
Now, HIPS, of course, doesn'thold private credit, but it
holds BDCs, which can haveexposure to private credit.
And I think it's just a reminderthat with first brands and the
(22:57):
bankruptcies that we're startingto see in the private credit
world, this was an area of themarket where funds like HIPS
would have traditionallycompeted with or did do compete
with, and you know, people weregetting similar yields to HIPS
but in a private credit from aprivate credit structure.
And one of the advantages thatwas that was always claimed was
(23:19):
that you didn't have amark-to-market nav.
And therefore it was easy tosay, okay, well, I'm getting
10%, and I don't have volatilityin my nav.
Well, of course, that's nottrue.
It just meant that you didn'thave a daily mark-to-market nav,
as with any public security.
And I think now what we'reseeing is is just a lot of
(23:39):
interest in the public versionof things like HIPS, where
people are really starting toworry about private credit and
worry about the exposures thatare hidden in some of those
funds, knowing that they'relocked up.
So I think again, the cycle iscoming back to the value of
liquid, transparent securitiesthat people can get in and out,
(24:00):
you know, whenever they choose,not whenever the the manager
chooses.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
I was gonna say, you know what's interesting about
that, and I'm um I've talkedabout private credit myself on
the leave agreement side.
The um I was reminded the otherday that in 2008, during the
GFC, we obviously saw a bunch ofbanks go under, but there's like
maybe only one BDC that wentunder.
Right.
Um now, obviously Apples andOrange is much bigger market
now, but um the concerns arounduh mass uh the sort of selling
(24:30):
the the throwing the baby outwith bathwater type thing, it it
probably is not gonna be thattype of dynamic at all here,
right?
I mean, you're not gonna havethe kind of widespread defaults
uh because there's a lot moretransparency when it comes to
BDCs in general than a lot ofpeople realize.
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Aaron Powell Well, I mean, I think it's too early to
say because um you know BDCshave investments or have
exposure to all sorts ofcompanies.
And the the fear is with theprivate credit market more
broadly that you hadbankruptcies that occurred um
(25:02):
seemingly out of nowhere, thatum has affected very big banks,
very sophisticated lenders whopurportedly should have known
better.
But you know, without going intothe specifics of those
particular transactions, thegeneral fear, if you want to
make the GFC kind of analogy, isthat like with mortgage-banked
(25:25):
securities, private creditstarted as you know, a genuine
uh high-quality asset classwhere managers would find deals
of good quality, with goodterms, um, good quality lenders,
and you know, offer those withinspecific funds.
(25:46):
What happened is that it almostbecame a victim of his own
success, whereby you have tonsof capital flowing in, and as
capital fell uh kept coming in,then managers had to deploy that
capital to more and more deals.
And I think the concern has beenthat the quality of those deals
therefore deteriorated over timebecause just aren't that many
(26:09):
high-quality deals in themarket.
So long story short, um, clearlyit's way too early to sort of
claim anything more than just anera of or or a notion of uh
suspicion and or of um concernwith this, but this is what
you're seeing manifesting at themoment in some of the BDC
(26:31):
market, is that while the thesecompanies are not private credit
uh direct themselves per se, um,but clearly have exposure that
to that sector.
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah, and look, I mean, to the extent that
investors are overreacting toit, uh, it's a buying
opportunity.
I think it's that's that's overthe keys to this.
Um final thoughts here, Will,for those that are looking to
put together a portfolio ofincome ideas, not uh investment
recommendations here, but uhwhat do you typically see?
Mixture of some yield boosts,mixture of some bonds, some
hips, some preferreds, like youknow, how should one think about
(27:05):
creating a real diversified,robust portfolio from a yield
perspective?
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Yeah, but I I I think um if you want to think
about it from the pure yieldperspective, then you know
there's never been a better timeto be an investor in the yield
space.
Um, you have a huge amount ofproducts and you have very, very
precision tools that you can usewithin your portfolio.
So if you're looking purely foryield, you can dial that up or
(27:32):
down seemingly as much as youwant.
Um if you use products, say onthe yield boost side, you can
dial up that yield verysignificantly.
If you're looking forpreservation of capital, then
clearly there are instrumentsthat enable you to do that on
the money market side, treasuryside, um, that will do that, but
(27:55):
offer you minimal amount ofyield in return.
So I think the basic um use casefor a HIPS, for yield boost, for
anything that generates, let'scall them high yields, is more
about risk-adjusted returns in aportfolio.
So put simply, you can useinstruments like this to
increase the amount of risk, um,in increase the amount of yield,
(28:19):
I should say, in a portfolio,and marginally increase the
level of risk, or in some casesmaintain a same level of risk
because the risks areuncorrelated or have a low
correlation.
So in the case of something likebonds, you're not just doubling
down on duration risk by usinghigher and higher yielding
(28:39):
bonds.
Um, you're taking a differenttype of risk or introducing a
different type of risk into theportfolio, be it options, be it
something like past threesecurities.
And so by combining thosetogether, you can have a yield
portfolio that, you know,whether it's a target yield or
just a level of yield thatyou're comfortable with, which
(29:00):
is diversified across eithermore risky yielding products and
lower risky yield products.
But there's never been a bettertime to put these kind of
structures together and to haveum the flexibility um and the
optionality, no pun intended,uh, in terms of putting that
together.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
Again, folks, for those that are here for CE
Credit, I will email youafterwards.
Uh, if you want to learn moreabout Granite Shares' offerings
and Yield Boost in particular,granite shares.com.
Will, any uh any partingthoughts here?
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
Yeah, I think um today is Yield Boost Day, we
call it, uh, affectionately hereat Granite Shares, which means
that um we publish thedistributions on this day on
every Thursday of every week.
So Yield Boost funds are allweekly payers, which means that
um there's a weeklydistribution.
So today is the date that wepublish that distribution.
The best way for anybody to getthat um is to follow Granite
(29:52):
Shares on X or a Yield Boostaccount on X, the Yield Boost
ETFs, and you'll be uh deliveredthat sort.
First thing in the morning interms of the distributions for
each fund for that week, andobviously then be able to make a
decision as to whether you youreinvest um for the next week or
deploy elsewhere.
So you'll boost ETFs on X, GrantShares on X, and of course the
(30:16):
GrantShares.com website, um,just for all information related
to the funds.
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
Appreciate those that joined this uh podcast
slash webinar.
And hopefully we'll see you allin the next uh next webinar.
Thanks, Will.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Cheers, everybody, I'm not sure.
Uh if you are an advisor and you have to be in an
office with other advisors or uhyou're not an advisor, but have
some people around you, uh, letthem know that this is
happening.
I think it's gonna be a goodconversation between me and the
founder of Granite Chair, Mr.
Will Ryan, talking about uh atopic which is always near and
dear to most people's hearts,which is getting more income,
especially in a world whereyields are uh questionable in
(00:32):
terms of where they're going andin a world where taxes, uh,
depending upon which stateyou're in, may be going up.
Uh, that's a little hint givenour backgrounds here as far as
where Will and I are based outof.
Uh, for those that are here forthe CE credits, I will email you
afterwards to get yourinformation.
I'll submit that to the CFPboard.
Just stay to the end of thediscussion here.
If any of you want to askquestions during this roughly
half an hour conversation, putit in the chat, but in the QA,
(00:52):
we'll bring it up and we'll makethis as interactive as possible.
Uh so with that said, my name isMichael Gaia, publisher of the
Lead Lag Aport and founder ofLead Lag Media.
Uh joining here is Mr.
Will Rind of Grant Shares.
I feel like Will, uh some peoplemay not be familiar with the
Grant Shares, but they should begiven that you're at 13 billion,
I think, now in AUM.
Uh so give a little context asfar as the firm and uh and what
you guys do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Yeah, sure.
So um morning everybody.
Will Rind, uh founder and CEO ofGranite Shares.
We're an ETF issuer um basedhere in New York City.
We issue also some differenttypes of ETFs, but as Michael
said, we're about 13 billion inassets under management.
And we have an array ofstrategies here in the United
(01:32):
States, in Europe, and uh inAsia as well.
Probably the two things thatwe're most well known for are
leverage single stocks.
So on a day like today, wheneveryone's voting on uh Elon
Musk's uh$1 trillion paypackage, and there'd be a lot of
activity, I'm sure, in our 2xlong and short uh Tesla ETFs, so
(01:54):
TSLR and TSDD.
Uh leverage single stocks arehugely popular product category.
And then we have our yield boostETFs, which are, as the name
might imply, uh very highyielding ETFs, typically around
50 to 150% per annum.
Uh, these are ETFs that useoptions to generate these very
(02:16):
high yields and um somethingthat has just become a hugely
popular asset class uh intoday's world.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
We're definitely going to touch on yield boost,
but let's just talk big picturefor a second here.
Um everyone was convinced thatwe're gonna have a series of
multiple rate cuts.
And here comes Powell basicallyputting some cold water on that
thought.
It's not a foregone conclusion,I think was the quote.
Um I know as a as an ETF issuer,you're not necessarily out there
making calls on monetary policy,but I'm curious to hear your
(02:45):
thoughts on where you thinkrates might be going because
that will impact the uh uhdiscussion around yielding
ideas.
Well, rates are going down.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
Um I think the question really is how fast um
and to what particular level.
And irrespective of the kind ofend, let's call it the end of
the Powell era and you know,where we get to before um Powell
steps down, a new chair isappointed.
(03:18):
But rates are on the way down.
I think it's clearly a huge uhpoint for the new chairperson to
get rates down.
Clearly, the administrationwants rates way lower than where
they are just now.
Um so whether whether we getanother cut uh before end of
year, I think most likely yes.
Um, but the the government shutdown, I guess, as long as that
(03:39):
goes goes on, creates someuncertainty.
And perhaps uh some of the someof the committee members um can
have pause there.
But you know, rate rates arecoming down, and that's really
the the crux of thisconversation as to why you know
people are looking for forhigher yielding assets.
SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
Maybe like five, six years ago, I used to always say
when we were in zero interestrate policy, uh they want yield
when there is none.
Now they don't want yield whenthere is some.
I'd now add a third layer tothat.
But the yield they want isreally high yield.
Right.
Um talk us through a little bit,sort of from your vantage point,
(04:18):
the way demand has shifted interms of looking for higher
yielding instruments outside ofbonds.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
I mean, I think that there's you know, there's
clearly not one answer toexplain all of this.
It's a um, you know, it's a bitit's a broad church in terms of
people's needs and wants.
But ultimately, I think what'sgoing on when it comes to the
high yield, at least the spacethat we traffic in, um, is the
(04:48):
rates that people are getting umin the bond market are just not
high enough when you take intoaccount inflation.
Now, I'm not necessarily talkingabout um the official CPI
number, although when you takethat into account, it clearly
does detract significantly fromthe sort of rates uh in markets,
but the unofficial sort ofinflation numbers.
(05:11):
And you know, there's a growingmovement of people, I think,
that are looking to create anindependent source of income
outside of their job.
And, you know, perhaps this isabout on one level uh just
financial freedom, being able tosleep at night.
Perhaps another level, it'sprudence uh in terms of creating
(05:33):
a secondary source that you knowprovides a backstop if you were
to lose your job, particularlypeople are nervous about AI and
just the economy more broadlywhen it comes to job security at
this time.
And so the idea of creating anindependent source of passive
income, I think, is veryappealing to a large uh section
(05:56):
of the investor class today, andthat's growing at a very
significant rate.
I mean, I think the the flowsinto options-based income ETFs
are really quite staggering.
Um, and again, I think that thatsort of narrative explains uh at
least in part, you know, what'sgoing on.
(06:16):
I think you throw in thevolatility of the bond market
and how bond portfolios letpeople down, um, particularly,
you know, in the Fed easingcycle, sorry, the Fed rate hike
cycle.
Um, and you know, perhaps thefact that bonds were were not
the safe haven that um peoplewere sold that they were.
(06:38):
Um you add that into mix, and Ithink it's people saying, well,
if bonds aren't as safe as theywere, then you know, the risk
part I'm sort of more okay with.
I'm just looking for for higheryields and I want consistency of
income.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
I wonder how much of that is um just a shift in
trust.
Like investors don't trust bondissuers because uh the the Fed
will step in and inflate it awayand certainly doesn't trust U.S.
Treasuries, right?
As we've seen given the wayduration, versus trusting
private enterprise.
I mean, is there is there maybea a shifting the way people just
think about where they shouldtrust their capital?
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
I think when it comes to treasuries, at least to
money markets, it's not it's nota trust issue in my in my book.
I think investors have noproblem parking money in
treasuries or money marketfunds.
And it's not about trust, it'sabout um pure risk reward.
And clearly with rates comingdown, you know, there's a
(07:35):
there's a huge amount of moneythat's sitting in treasuries and
money market funds at themoment, trillions and trillions
of dollars.
And you know, that that was allfair and good when you know
rates were 5%.
But if we're going to a levelsignificantly lower than 5%, and
a low at a rate again that afterinflation rates actually go
(07:56):
negative again, uh, or or atleast are negligible, then
there's an argument that wheredoes that capital go?
And a lot of that capital'scapital is going to come off the
sidelines, go out of thesefunds, whether it's treasuries
or money markets, and intorisk-bearing assets.
So some of those will clearly gointo higher yielding elements of
(08:17):
the bond market, but a lot willgo into equities or go into
alternative sources of income,like uh options-based income
ETFs.
And so that's, I think, more thecase that as rates come down,
you'll see a lot of that moneyin motion, and that money is
going to find its way into moreproductive areas of the
(08:38):
ecosystem, be it just straightequities or dividend equities or
something like the options-basedincome ETFs.
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
So you hit on that point that this, I think you use
the word staggering in terms ofthe demand for some of these
options income strategies.
Let's um let's go basic for theaudience and explain how you
generate income from options,but then after that go deeper
because there's a lot ofdifferent ways of doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
So at its simplest point, when you sell anything,
that you get something inreturn.
And what you get for that iscalled a premium, and that can
be distributed out toshareholders in the form of
income.
So you have specific optionstrategies where you sell an
(09:21):
option on an underlying assetthat generates an amount of
cash, you distribute that cashto shareholders, and that's your
distribution or your income oryour yield, whichever way you
you like to look at it.
So it is simplest level, that'swhat's going on.
And you sell options onunderlying assets that could be
(09:41):
stocks, that could be ETFs.
Um, but this is a very, verysort of liquid and growing
market that enables you togenerate yield from an
underlying asset, be it a stockor an ETF.
So I think it's fair to say thatthe majority of these strategies
are, like you said, a coveredcall strategy.
And that means in its sort ofsimplistic term, that you own
(10:05):
the underlying asset, be it astock or be it an ETF, and you
sell a call option on thatunderlying asset.
And so by doing that, youreceive a premium for that.
Um, that caps your upside tothat underlying ETF or stock in
the form of the premium youreceive, but you are still
(10:27):
exposed 100% to the downside ofthe movement and price of that
underlying asset.
So that that that's a verypopular strategy for people that
are again looking for yield.
So, what Yield Boost does is adifferent version of that,
slightly more efficient versionof that in our view, where
instead of selling a calloption, we sell a put option.
(10:49):
So that's a bit more efficientin our book.
And then simultaneously, we buya put option.
So we complete the incomegeneration part of the spread,
um, which is selling that putoption to generate income, but
we simultaneously buy a putoption, which provides some
downside protection.
So that's called a put spreadstrategy where you're selling
(11:11):
one option, you're buyinganother, and then you're
capturing the exposure withinthat spread.
SPEAKER_00 (11:18):
So I think this is actually incredibly important.
Um, because in most investors'minds, they tend to separate
yield from the underlying valueof the asset.
Right.
So I remember in 2008, a lot ofmanagers got in trouble because
they said, well, it's money goodbecause I'm still getting my
yield, and then the underlyingasset blew up.
(11:39):
In the case of yield boosts, youare having some insurance
protection with that put thatyou're buying, which is what
these cover call strategies donot have.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
So in in simple, in simple terms, um, it's a design
improvement.
It allows for that element,which of course is is designed
to provide some protectionagainst the obvious weakness of
covered calls, which is theincome is nice typically, but
you're giving 100% exposure tothe downside.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Aaron Powell So is it fair to say that over a long
enough market cycle, that typeof approach would have better
risk-adjusted total return thana cover call only strategy?
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
Um it's always difficult to say in generality,
but yes.
I mean, typically what we findis when we observe periods of
actual realized volatility, insome cases the realized
volatility of the yield booststrategy is lower than the
actual underlying, let's sayit's a it's Tesla, for example,
um, then although yield boostsgenerate such high yields, we
(12:42):
sell options on underlyingleveraged ETFs.
That's the the way that we'reable to generate the kind of
yields that you see.
And while leveraged ETFs arevolatile, when you put it within
the confines of the put spreadstrategy, the actual realized
volatility numbers can be evenlower sometimes than the stock
itself.
Um so again, depends on theperiod of time you measure.
(13:04):
Um, but that spread, becauseit's a defined outcome, um, can
limit risk sometimes less thanthe actual underlying itself,
ultimate underlying.
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
So as some of the uh individual yield boost funds for
a second here, um, because thedistribution rates are pretty
eye-popping.
I mean, here's AMYY, which is onAMD, 100% plus distribution
rate.
I know you do the announcementsuh weekly, usually on
Wednesdays.
Uh how are you getting thoserates that high?
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Well, I mean, the secret is that um if you take a
stock like AMD, um, there willbe very liquid options market on
AMD.
So if you just sell an option onAMD, you receive a premium.
And that premium, the value ofthat is derived from its what we
call implied volatility, whichis a number.
So let's, for argument's sake,say the implied volatility is 60
(13:55):
in the market.
Well, if you sell exactly thesame option on a two times
leveraged AMD ETF, then allthings being equal, the premium
that you receive will be twotimes that of the unlevered
underlying.
So instead of 60, it would be120.
And so automatically you'recapturing two times the premium
(14:17):
as if you sold an option on thestock.
So when you capture two timesthe premium, that's two times
the amount of income that youcan distribute out to
shareholders.
And because you're capturing somuch premium, then we use some
of that premium to buy uhdownside protection.
And that's effectively thestrategy.
So it comes from selling optionson the underlying, but if you
(14:40):
sell options on a leveragedunderlying, then you can
generate two times the premiumif it's a two times ETF, or
three times the premium if it'sa three times ETF.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Uh is it fair to say, again, speaking about
generalities, that when you'relooking at the options market in
the levered space, these it'sthere's a lot more inefficiency.
So you the the premiums are arem more mispriced, which is the
benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
I'm not sure whether it's uh inefficiency, because
you know, at the end of the day,it's an instrument that can be
arbitraged.
So if there's a mispricing,people will arbitrage that
difference.
I think it might be fair to saythat in some cases there's less
liquidity or the options marketis less developed than the
(15:24):
equivalent for, let's say, anunderlying stock.
And in that case, the benefit ofdoing something like a yield
boost strategy is by usingbespoke option options contracts
that are negotiated directlywith brokers to generate
premium, as opposed to justbeing limited to trading listed
options.
Um, so there's more flexibilitythat we have as an active
(15:48):
manager um within that space,but ultimately, to the extent
that there's a mispricing, um,it's not in a sort of
traditional sense.
It's more an opportunity, anarbitrage opportunity for
people.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
You hear this term often nav erosion.
Um I know one of your competitorfund families uh is getting a
lot of heat for some of thethings that's happening on that
end.
Uh tide is maybe turning on someof these types of products that
are not as thoughtfullydesigned, I think, as the yield
boost strategy is.
Um let's talk about what naverosion is and maybe what why
(16:22):
investors are underestimatingthe potential of it in a more
normal market, which isn't justgoing up the way it's been going
up.
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
I mean, it's just a it's just a catchphrase, if you
will, for what we talked aboutwith covered call.
So it's something that um isvery much synonymous with
covered call ETFs.
And again, just simply goes tothe to the fact that you're
capturing um the premium, butyou're capturing all the all the
downside.
So when you sell effectively theupside away, you get a premium
(16:52):
for that, but in return, theexposure is 100% to the
downside.
So therefore, if the underlyinggoes down, then the value of
that ETF goes down, aka the navgoes down.
That's what people are talkingabout specifically when they
talk about nav erosion.
So it's really just somethingthat um is present with any
(17:14):
strategy where you don't have adownside protection with
options, but particularly withcovered calls.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
Um okay, so so as far as the fund suite, you've
been you know uh at a towardpace of launches, right, on
single stocks.
Um let's talk about the fundlineup currently.
And then I want to touch on thebroad-based averages, you know,
the cues, the the uh SP typeyield boost uh plays there.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Yeah, I mean, we we've really expanded um quite
significantly the offering foryield boosts.
So I think we're up to 14 or 16funds now.
Um and it was only a few weeksago it felt like we were just
adding the tenth fund.
So the the range is expandingquite significantly.
We've just added new funds um tothe lineup, including Mara, a
(17:58):
yield boost Mara, uh yield boostIONQ, um, yield boost SMCI,
yield boost um MSTR, and others.
So the the range is reallyexpanding quite significantly.
And I would say that what'sinteresting is you know, all of
these have different sort ofyield profiles.
And so the more volatile theunderlying, typically, the the
(18:20):
more um yield that is able to begenerated.
So you might have something likea Coinbase, um, yield boost
Coinbase, which is generatingaround 150% um per annum.
And then you have a new anewcomer like uh Yield Boost
Mara or Yield Boost IonQ, whichis also up around that 150%
(18:41):
level.
And then you have something morediversified, like you said, like
the uh yield boost spy, yieldboost um triple Q, and those are
around the 50% level.
So a lot a lot less yield, butum you know more diversified
than the than the singleunderlyings.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Uh the largest one of the fund family is the uh
Tesla one T S Y Y.
You can see that on the bottomof the screen.
And then the others obviouslyare getting some good traction.
Um maybe just for those that arecurious about the uh the newer
ones like the meta uh and uhMSTR, the smaller ones in AUM,
talk about liquidity.
Um if there's concerns thatinvestors should have when they
look at smaller funds on AUM.
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
I mean, I think um there's always an element of
people looking at the number ofshares that are traded on the
screen and you know havingconcerns about a fund that has
light volume as a as opposed toa fund that has clearly
significant volume.
I think the thing to alwaysremember is with ETFs, that is
(19:43):
um ETFs are open-ended.
So that means we can manufactureshares on demand.
So, in other words, if you seeum, let's say a very, very small
amount of shares trading on theexchange, you might see an
average daily volume of, say, athousand shares.
Somebody wants to put an orderin for 10,000 shares, then it's
not like a stock where thatorder can't be completed or
(20:06):
would have to be worked in overseveral days.
It goes to the market maker whowould come to us, we create more
shares, or they wouldtechnically create more shares,
um, and then use those to sellto the customer that's looking
to buy 10,000.
So the supply and demand ofthese ETFs expands and contracts
um accordingly.
(20:26):
So when you see an ETF thesmall, you know, don't ever make
the mistake of thinking thatthat doesn't equal liquidity
because with ETFs, um, they'reable to expand and contract.
I think that's kind of goes backto the very dawn of ETFs, and
you know, we're still talkingabout it to this day, that um
the trading volume does notequal the liquidity when it
(20:47):
comes to ETFs.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
The thing about your product suite is that there's a
product for pretty much anyoneand everyone, right?
Um so there will be some thatare listening to this that uh
may not be super into yieldboosts.
A lot of people will be intoyield boost, but again, I'm
still looking for high income.
Uh you have more than just yieldboosts.
So I want to touch on HIPS hereuh because I think this is
really interesting, fun, goodhistory.
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Uh, we should yeah, so HIPS is um a another high
income ETF, but it's not a bondETF.
And when we say high income, wejust mean something that um
would, by all traditionalmetrics, be uh high yielding.
So HIPS is around 10% per annum.
And HIPS invests in pass-throughsecurities.
So pass-through securities are asection of the market where you
(21:28):
have REITs, you have closed-endfunds, you have BDCs and MLPs.
All of these, all of thesedifferent securities, um they
all have in common the fact thatthey don't pay corporation
taxes.
So they distribute by lawsubstantially all of their
income to shareholders.
So they're they're a good assetfor those people looking for
(21:51):
income and consistency ofincome.
So HIPS is a is an interestingproduct because it it's designed
to produce income.
Um but what I think is differentuh about HIPS is not only that
it has exposure to those fourunderlying asset classes within
the pass-through security world,but it pays a fixed cash
distribution of 10.75 cents pershare per month.
(22:14):
So that means that when you buyit, you're effectively locking
into uh the yield at that time,which can be attractive to a lot
of people who were looking tobudget a certain yield number or
add a certain yield number totheir portfolios.
So HIPS is an interesting assetclass.
And I think um it's it's almostespecially interesting today
(22:34):
because the performance of HIPSthis year hasn't been that
great.
And the reason for that is allthe concerns in the market
around private credit.
Now, HIPS, of course, doesn'thold private credit, but it
holds BDCs, which can haveexposure to private credit.
And I think it's just a reminderthat with first brands and the
(22:57):
bankruptcies that we're startingto see in the private credit
world, this was an area of themarket where funds like HIPS
would have traditionallycompeted with or did do compete
with, and you know, people weregetting similar yields to HIPS
but in a private credit from aprivate credit structure.
And one of the advantages thatwas that was always claimed was
(23:19):
that you didn't have amark-to-market nav.
And therefore it was easy tosay, okay, well, I'm getting
10%, and I don't have volatilityin my nav.
Well, of course, that's nottrue.
It just meant that you didn'thave a daily mark-to-market nav,
as with any public security.
And I think now what we'reseeing is is just a lot of
(23:39):
interest in the public versionof things like HIPS, where
people are really starting toworry about private credit and
worry about the exposures thatare hidden in some of those
funds, knowing that they'relocked up.
So I think again, the cycle iscoming back to the value of
liquid, transparent securitiesthat people can get in and out,
(24:00):
you know, whenever they choose,not whenever the the manager
chooses.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
I was gonna say, you know what's interesting about
that, and I'm um I've talkedabout private credit myself on
the leave agreement side.
The um I was reminded the otherday that in 2008, during the
GFC, we obviously saw a bunch ofbanks go under, but there's like
maybe only one BDC that wentunder.
Right.
Um now, obviously Apples andOrange is much bigger market
now, but um the concerns arounduh mass uh the sort of selling
(24:30):
the the throwing the baby outwith bathwater type thing, it it
probably is not gonna be thattype of dynamic at all here,
right?
I mean, you're not gonna havethe kind of widespread defaults
uh because there's a lot moretransparency when it comes to
BDCs in general than a lot ofpeople realize.
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Aaron Powell Well, I mean, I think it's too early to
say because um you know BDCshave investments or have
exposure to all sorts ofcompanies.
And the the fear is with theprivate credit market more
broadly that you hadbankruptcies that occurred um
(25:02):
seemingly out of nowhere, thatum has affected very big banks,
very sophisticated lenders whopurportedly should have known
better.
But you know, without going intothe specifics of those
particular transactions, thegeneral fear, if you want to
make the GFC kind of analogy, isthat like with mortgage-banked
(25:25):
securities, private creditstarted as you know, a genuine
uh high-quality asset classwhere managers would find deals
of good quality, with goodterms, um, good quality lenders,
and you know, offer those withinspecific funds.
(25:46):
What happened is that it almostbecame a victim of his own
success, whereby you have tonsof capital flowing in, and as
capital fell uh kept coming in,then managers had to deploy that
capital to more and more deals.
And I think the concern has beenthat the quality of those deals
therefore deteriorated over timebecause just aren't that many
(26:09):
high-quality deals in themarket.
So long story short, um, clearlyit's way too early to sort of
claim anything more than just anera of or or a notion of uh
suspicion and or of um concernwith this, but this is what
you're seeing manifesting at themoment in some of the BDC
(26:31):
market, is that while the thesecompanies are not private credit
uh direct themselves per se, um,but clearly have exposure that
to that sector.
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah, and look, I mean, to the extent that
investors are overreacting toit, uh, it's a buying
opportunity.
I think it's that's that's overthe keys to this.
Um final thoughts here, Will,for those that are looking to
put together a portfolio ofincome ideas, not uh investment
recommendations here, but uhwhat do you typically see?
Mixture of some yield boosts,mixture of some bonds, some
hips, some preferreds, like youknow, how should one think about
(27:05):
creating a real diversified,robust portfolio from a yield
perspective?
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Yeah, but I I I think um if you want to think
about it from the pure yieldperspective, then you know
there's never been a better timeto be an investor in the yield
space.
Um, you have a huge amount ofproducts and you have very, very
precision tools that you can usewithin your portfolio.
So if you're looking purely foryield, you can dial that up or
(27:32):
down seemingly as much as youwant.
Um if you use products, say onthe yield boost side, you can
dial up that yield verysignificantly.
If you're looking forpreservation of capital, then
clearly there are instrumentsthat enable you to do that on
the money market side, treasuryside, um, that will do that, but
(27:55):
offer you minimal amount ofyield in return.
So I think the basic um use casefor a HIPS, for yield boost, for
anything that generates, let'scall them high yields, is more
about risk-adjusted returns in aportfolio.
So put simply, you can useinstruments like this to
increase the amount of risk, um,in increase the amount of yield,
(28:19):
I should say, in a portfolio,and marginally increase the
level of risk, or in some casesmaintain a same level of risk
because the risks areuncorrelated or have a low
correlation.
So in the case of something likebonds, you're not just doubling
down on duration risk by usinghigher and higher yielding
(28:39):
bonds.
Um, you're taking a differenttype of risk or introducing a
different type of risk into theportfolio, be it options, be it
something like past threesecurities.
And so by combining thosetogether, you can have a yield
portfolio that, you know,whether it's a target yield or
just a level of yield thatyou're comfortable with, which
(29:00):
is diversified across eithermore risky yielding products and
lower risky yield products.
But there's never been a bettertime to put these kind of
structures together and to haveum the flexibility um and the
optionality, no pun intended,uh, in terms of putting that
together.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
Again, folks, for those that are here for CE
Credit, I will email youafterwards.
Uh, if you want to learn moreabout Granite Shares' offerings
and Yield Boost in particular,granite shares.com.
Will, any uh any partingthoughts here?
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
Yeah, I think um today is Yield Boost Day, we
call it, uh, affectionately hereat Granite Shares, which means
that um we publish thedistributions on this day on
every Thursday of every week.
So Yield Boost funds are allweekly payers, which means that
um there's a weeklydistribution.
So today is the date that wepublish that distribution.
The best way for anybody to getthat um is to follow Granite
(29:52):
Shares on X or a Yield Boostaccount on X, the Yield Boost
ETFs, and you'll be uh deliveredthat sort.
First thing in the morning interms of the distributions for
each fund for that week, andobviously then be able to make a
decision as to whether you youreinvest um for the next week or
deploy elsewhere.
So you'll boost ETFs on X, GrantShares on X, and of course the
(30:16):
GrantShares.com website, um,just for all information related
to the funds.
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
Appreciate those that joined this uh podcast
slash webinar.
And hopefully we'll see you allin the next uh next webinar.
Thanks, Will.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Cheers, everybody, I'm not sure.
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