May 19, 2025 • 45 mins
The world of payments is undergoing a radical transformation, and at the heart of this revolution stands Wix Payments. In this compelling conversation with co-heads Vova Tsukur and Amit Sagiv, we uncover how this powerhouse is reshaping financial services for small businesses across 190 countries.
What makes Wix Payments truly special? It's not just another payment processor. By leveraging deep user knowledge gathered through their platform, they've crafted a frictionless onboarding experience that allows merchants to start accepting payments almost immediately. This approach has become a lifeline for small businesses often rejected by traditional providers despite being legitimate operations.
"We see the customer in a holistic way," explains Amit. "We understand their identity really well and can assess risk more accurately than standalone payment providers." This insight enables their unique multi-processor strategy, intelligently routing transactions across various payment partners to optimize approval rates and performance.
The future vision they share is equally fascinating. From AI-powered risk management that's already transforming their operations to a world of "real-time everything" where payments, settlements, and payouts happen instantaneously. Vova even predicts a future where "payments become naked, free from UX," with AI agents autonomously conducting transactions based on predefined parameters.
Both leaders emphasize that embracing AI isn't optional in today's payment landscape. "The fraudsters don't wait to adapt—they adapt fast," Amit warns. "By the time you catch up to one threat, they've already moved on to something more sophisticated."
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andon today's show we have two very
special guests the co-heads ofWix Payments, vova Sukhar and
Amit Sajeev.
So thank you both for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hi, greg, thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Absolutely so, vova.
We'll start with you.
Tell our audience a little bitabout yourself, maybe where you
grew up, where you went toschool, where you currently live
, a few things like that.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Okay, currently live a few things like that.
Okay, so we'll start withnon-professional stuff, right?
Basically, I'm based in ukraine.
I was born in a small townwhich is called pokrovsk.
Like in the age of 10, I movedto another city, so that was on
the east, so we moved to thevery west.
That's where I've ended my kindof finished my studies and
education and then, when I waslooking for great opportunities,
the obvious choice was to go tothe capital.
(01:03):
So, so I went to Kiev, and thisis where I'm based at right now
.
I used to call it the best cityin the world.
Yeah, so I have.
I have a boy three years old,living with my wife over here.
You know, really enjoying thetime, even though the times are
harsh in a way.
You know what's going on in ourcountry, but we develop our
resilience and move forward.
That's the only way to go.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That's a little bit about myself, awesome.
So, amit, same question for you.
So very nice to meet you all.
My name is Amit Sagiv, 44, outof Tel Aviv, israel, father of
three beautiful daughters.
I grew up in the South, verymuch engineering product guy at
heart, always took apartwhatever I could and brought it
back together as something new.
So everything electric aroundthe house started off as a TV
(01:50):
and ended up as a guitar andkind of that's what I've been
doing ever since.
You know, imagining new things,looking at the world from my
own perspective.
I studied at Technion, which islike Israel's MIT, and very
quickly went intoentrepreneurship.
I had a small startup dealingwith collaborative creation and
(02:15):
worked.
Shortly after I went intofintech and worked in various
different places building allkinds of solutions for stock
trading, digital banking,payment solutions, and was
really privileged to work withsome really talented people
along the way and to learn thetech and fintech revolution from
(02:38):
the inside out.
And for the past seven yearsI've been co-heading with
Vovahir payments at Wix andbringing the fintech revolution
to all of our Wix users.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Okay.
So, amit, let's stick with youIf you don't mind.
Before we jump into the Wixpayments part, maybe for those
in the audience that doesn'tknow exactly what Wix does,
maybe just give us that highlevel definition of Wix what Wix
does.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Maybe just give us that high level definition of
Wix.
So Wix is basically a platformto bring all of your dreams
online, businesses desires.
We have over 282 million, ifI'm not mistaken, registered
(03:27):
users across the world.
Millions of them are premiums.
We've been building the mostextensive operating system,
basically to build any dreamonline and physical.
So Wix has been supporting 190countries, so many different
languages, and byproduct of thatis the finance aspect and
everything that you need tosupport in payments.
But if you want to imagine, anykind of business that wants to
(03:49):
go online can basically use theoperating system that is Wix.
And Wix is built in a reallyspecial way and similar to how
an operating system hasdifferent components that are
independent but actually worktogether.
Wix is built in a similar way.
So we have an e-com set ofcapabilities and we have
(04:09):
services and we have our websiteeditors and we have marketing
tools and we have a payment andfintech suite.
So all of these variouscomponents are basically
allowing the small, the mediumkind of businesses to build
their presence online.
We provide endless flexibilityin terms of visual and
(04:33):
capabilities.
But it also translates to apps.
It translates to web apps.
It translates to responsivewebsites.
We have physical POS, so youwill find in our super diverse
portfolio of users from mom andpop shops to hotels, to a kid at
(04:55):
school doing a project.
So we cater to a lot of usecases.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Okay, so maybe, Vova, you could explain the payments
and fintech portion of that.
What solutions you providethere?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Of course, I would gladly do that.
So basically, in the Wixecosystem, we provide basically
two suits of solutions for ourcustomers.
One of them is basically youcan go and use a third-party
payment provider on your siteAmit spoke about e-commerce
(05:31):
experience or bookingsexperience, services, events,
restaurants and all those kindof verticals so you can connect
a third party like stripe or orpaypal and process through them
within the wix site.
Or we also give the nativeembedded payment experience
which is called wix payments,and I have to say this is like
this is what our users prefer.
This is what our users prefer.
This is what our users areactually choosing, and it's been
a challenging game to get tothis point, but we can
(05:51):
definitely right now say thatit's a default solution and
there are big pros in our Wixpayments offering by giving them
better experience.
Those pros are think about itlike if Wix is a place where the
user is creating onlinepresence, managing their
day-to-day editing products,managing inventory, also doing
(06:13):
the SEO promotion or marketingpromotion Google ads and
Facebook ads we kind ofpositioned in the way that we
can also maximize success forthese users, no matter whether
they're big or small from thefinancial perspective, and this
is exactly what we do, and itstarts with payments, of course,
and it kind of continues in theway we also onboard the
(06:33):
customer.
Because we know about thecustomer a lot, we can say that
we have a frictionlessexperience in the onboarding
where the user can engage andstart accepting payments as fast
as possible.
We, to compare us and actuallywe are we're probably the one in
the industry, or one of the oneof the few, who are providing
this uh kind of deferred modewhen customers can start
(06:55):
accepting payments without beingfully verified.
Of course, they will getverified when, uh when, they
will need to receive theirpayouts, but the way to start in
a frictionless way is supersimple and seamless.
So this is like, in a nutshell,and this business that we have
built here together with Amitand our amazing team all kudos
(07:16):
go to the team, of course.
Right now, in terms of likerevenues, we are bringing around
215 million.
That's the data for 2024 out of1.76B for the overall weeks.
So this is like a big portionof the revenues and what is
really close to my heart, it'sreal value for our customers.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So, amit, are there other fintech products beyond
payments that you're offering ormaybe will be offering soon?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
So yes, there are a few products tech products
beyond payments that you'reoffering or maybe will be
offering soon.
So, yes, there are a fewproducts that we've been
providing along the years,whether they're integrations to
external accounting or theability to receive invoice and
kind of charge through paymentlinks and all kinds of different
(08:07):
checkout and AI experiencesthat we're constantly enhancing
our platform with to engage withthe buyers and the merchant in
such a deeper way.
We have all kinds of enginesthat we've built inside our
system throughout the yearsbecause we see the data of the
user in a very holistic way, wecan understand in a really
(08:30):
profound and, unlike otherpayment providers, because we
see the end-to-end all the wayfrom the moment you logged into
the first time registration intothe Wix account, we know who
you are and we understand youridentity really well.
We can understand the risk thatis involved with processing
your business.
So, definitely, areas offinancial services are very
(08:54):
relevant because of thatintimate and, I would say,
direct knowledge of the user andthe risk that they bring.
We have various financialproducts coming down soon.
We can't be too explicit, butyou can connect the dots and our
users are very happy with thosesolutions we've seen Throughout
(09:15):
the years.
We've introduced POS as well.
That opened up the wholephysical experience and that's
POS on quite a wide range,whether you're a small pop-up
shop that just needs a tap topay on your phone, or as a
dongle extension all the way tofull POS systems with card
(09:36):
readers and cash drawers andeverything that comes together
with that.
So, yes, payment is the core,but it evolves and extends as
much as the user needs it.
We're very much following theuser requests and their own
growth.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Okay.
So, amit, sticking with you fora second.
So would a typical use case behey, I'm a small business, could
be a retail shop, and I want tohave an e-commerce presence and
sell online.
I go to Wix, I build my website.
Payments are automaticallyintegrated.
I mean, is that typically theuse case that Wix has?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So I'd say it splits into basically two use cases.
One is the classic DIY, asyou've mentioned, pretty similar
to the way you described it.
Users may go in various pathsbut eventually they would have a
live website with theirproducts or services, with their
(10:38):
payment system, connected withthe catalog, with everything
that needs to be done in orderto have a good interaction with
your buyers.
That's one path.
The other path is through whatis partners and agencies.
These are do it for me, not DIY, but do it for me, which is a
big portion of the presenceonline is being built by
(11:01):
professionals.
If I'm a baker, I'm really goodat making bread.
I might not be as good assetting up my photo gallery and
the right messaging and theright tone of voice, and I would
need somebody to help me withbranding, with marketing, with
establishing my presence.
So we have a very vastrelationship with partners and
(11:24):
agencies across the world whobuild websites for all kinds of
users.
So, if you want to imagine thatexperience, that is even kind
of more complicated for thepayment system, because I'm not
onboarding the website builder,I'm onboarding his customer.
So we have quite a veryextensive point of view over who
(11:48):
does what, the roles,responsibilities.
To enable that experience thatVova mentioned in the past about
that smooth onboarding,frictionless, something that
sees the user in a very he's thecenter she's the center right
and not the website or Wix, butthe user who is trying to
establish their solution weprogrammatically constantly
(12:12):
collect data and then transferit to create those stable
accounts right.
So we know the names, we knowthe emails.
We can use that informationprogrammatically behind the
scene to establish what we need.
So those are the main two setsof experiences.
There are also others.
(12:32):
Wix is also verydeveloper-oriented, so you might
have developers that arebuilding.
They would build their ownclient and would just connect to
the Wix back office and use ourfunctionality through our
headless capabilities and ourpublicly documented APIs.
So there are various entrypoints into creating your Wix
(12:55):
site and your Wix app and wesupport all of them.
So, from a payment and afinancial perspective, we have
multiple types of users.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Okay, great.
And a financial perspective wehave multiple types of users
Okay, great.
So, vova, what would you saydifferentiates Wix payments from
your competitors out there?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I have a few things to mention on this one.
So basically, I starteddeliberating on it when I was
giving a previous answer.
But because we know thecustomer really well, because
Wix is the place where the useris performing their day-to-day
and because this customer isalso paying for Wix services,
which we call premium.
So if you want to create a sitewith a domain and have an
(13:35):
ability to accept payments, youalso need to buy premium.
We kind of know more about thecustomer and that gives us an
opportunity to onboard him inthe easiest way.
So the path from the intent Iwant to accept payments to
actually getting the firstpayment is super frictionless
and this is definitely theknow-how and it's actually very
hard to build.
(13:56):
And we designed it togetherwith our partners, with our
payment partners, so that it'sgoing to be super solid and also
manage all types of risks thatsuch an experience might
introduce.
So that's number one.
Number two, in terms of thevariety of payment methods that
we give to our customers, weprovide a lot.
(14:18):
Just recently we've launchedalso PayPal.
So we have the cards, we havePayPal, we have Apple Pay and
Google Pay.
Of course, amit mentionedbefore that we have POS device,
which is also accepting.
Like, we have a POS device formanaging the catalog and then
also the actual POS paymentdevice and on top of that I
didn't mention local paymentmethods.
(14:39):
So, in terms of, like, the fullcoverage of the pay in channels
, we definitely check the box.
So this is number two.
Number three, which is notrelated to functionalities but
to, I can call it, enablement,and I want to continue the story
that Amit started before.
We're all following the user'sdesire and the user's path and
(15:01):
we have worked really, reallyhard and still working, on
making sure that the user isgoing to be enabled.
Making sure that the user isgoing to be enabled, okay, we
have seen a lot of cases whenusers turn to third party
payment providers and they, youknow, get a bump in the journey
and either the onboarding is notfrictionless or they're
completely you know, they'recompletely not accepted, but
(15:22):
it's a valid business.
Okay, it's not a fraudster,it's a fully compliant and valid
business and because we havemany customers who are really
tiny, small SMBs, for them it'sreally important to get on this
journey and feel that they areenabled.
So giving this experience fromthe product perspective and from
the service perspective issomething that I can say,
(15:45):
definitely differentiates usfrom the rest of the solutions.
And, again, it was really hardto do and we also had we
ourselves had bumps on thejourney.
Building this trust took timeand at this point we can say you
know, we have advanced.
So those three things I wouldsay right now are the key
(16:06):
differentiators, from theembedded payments perspective,
on how our solution is betterthan others.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay, Amit, anything you'd add to that?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I'd add one thing we combine and they compete.
So the way we look at ourpayment providers that are
working with us, we are workingin a multi-processor mode.
Wix Payment sits on top ofmulti-processors and we
facilitate the best experienceout of everyone's offering, all
(16:39):
consolidated into one flow soyou wouldn't feel the friction
but we would bypass a lot ofhiccups along the way.
So, while individual paymentproviders compete with each
other, because we are at theplatform level and we're
integrated into all of them, weactually combine, so we don't
need to compete, and that bringselevated performances across
(17:03):
all metrics and it gives us areally in-depth point of view to
risk, to compliance, to userexperience and once you
understand that you can leveragethe best out of all worlds, it
really opens up this path to areally good product.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And the one who is really winning in this story is
the final user right.
Also look at it, let's say,from the compliance perspective.
One payment partner may notnecessarily accept certain type
of business right, but the otherone can, and it's our job to
guide it, to guide in theprocess and the way and actually
do it behind the scenes so thatthe user is enabled at the end
(17:45):
of the day and has frictionlessexperience in an ongoing fashion
at the end of the day and hasfrictionless experience in an
ongoing fashion.
So this multiprocessor setup isby design and for the benefit
of the user.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So, amit, let's talk about the future a little bit.
Where do you see the industryheaded in, say, the next three
to five years?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
So I see us actually building the future as we speak.
There are so many shaping andforming technologies and
platforms around us, and I'm notmeaning it in the buzzword-y
sense of the way.
I think Gen AI has changeddramatically the way many things
have been perceived.
We've built our own AI strategyfive years ago.
(18:33):
We have in-house data scienceand agentic systems and we've
been running our compliance andrisk and many, many things in
this way for a very long timenow, because we knew we need to
be laser sharp and not veryheadcount heavy.
We've created models andclassification tools and risk
assessments and all these thingsthat now I see flooding
(18:55):
LinkedIn in these diagrams ofthis is how you build agentic
systems.
I just had a conversation todaywith our data science lead that
it's really beautiful that weactually have it running for a
long time now and we see thatevolving.
We see the agentic e-commercecoming into life slowly.
We do understand that the waypeople engaged with information
(19:21):
is changing.
The way you approach searchengine is changing.
So the way you find products,the way you find services, the
way you expose your brand ischanging and it's obvious that,
while it's an uncharted path,right, we see these products
that are coming up now.
You know, claude Biontropic hasthis massive abilities with the
(19:44):
new MCP layers.
We see Google's protocol of theA2A.
There's a lot of things thatare coming.
They're very raw in nature andwe understand and we've been
inside this kind of fluctuationas Wix for a few times and
adapted to new levels oftechnology.
We've had our first AI editorat 2018, I think Wix.
(20:09):
So we've had a few runs at thisand we see the progression
being more and more personalized.
Experience now is expected tobe almost in a singularity point
, because if we used to speakabout segmentations and user
funnels coming in varioussegments, we understand now that
(20:32):
as you type into your chat GPTor any one of those LLMs, you're
expecting a specific contextualanswer out of your entire
multiple threads that you mayhave.
If I'm looking for a shirtright now, I'm expecting it to
already know my size becauseI've engaged with it in the past
(20:54):
and there's a question of howthat experience would look like.
I think many companies now areforming this new approach.
How does payment look in thisnew world?
I've been a big advocate forstablecoin for many years as
infrastructure move, less from acryptocurrency replacement
(21:17):
point of view for the fiats, butmore as the ability to do
things faster in a moreefficient way, where the
compliance level might beembedded into the way the smart
contracts are written.
So there's a lot of progressionthat we can do with smarter
currencies.
They might have the samemonetary value but in essence,
(21:42):
as a protocol, they enabledifferent things.
So I think we're askingourselves how do we take our
users, our SMBs, into this newworld?
What do we give them?
What kind of access we giveinto the capabilities of Wix for
this new world?
Because I think a lot of thegates that were closed are being
(22:06):
opened now and certainassumptions that certain
companies had along the way thatthis is the only way to use my
product, that's if you log intomy CRM and you start working,
and now you see more and more ofthose bridges starting to be
built between the Zapiers, theWix, all these platforms of the
(22:29):
world, into those LLMs, and thenyou have tools sitting on top
of those LLMs, creating accessagain to those platforms.
So it's very much forming pathright now.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Volvo.
Anything you would add to that?
I mean, we talked about AI andcrypto a little bit.
Are there other things thatyou'd like to mention there
about the future?
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Actually, I have a lot to add and I will not repeat
the right things that Amit said.
On the AI front, I think thereis a tactical change, but there
is also the strategic change tothe way payments are performed,
and I will try to explain how Ienvision it.
On the tactical front, we willsee payments being embedded in
(23:13):
this new type of interfaces,into chat GPTs of the world,
into new mediums, and also theplatforms like Stripe or
commerce builders like Wix willalso continue pursuing exposing
their functionality to these newkind of mediums.
So this is going to be to me,this is a tactical step.
It's a really important one,but the strategic step I would
(23:36):
say it's act.
Two is something else.
I see, at the end of the day,payments being kind of naked,
kind of free from UX.
Okay.
So I see agents talking to eachother and performing payments
without necessarily user beingin the flow.
We kind of have a simplisticway to do it these days with
typical subscriptions right,when the user doesn't have to be
(23:58):
there, when he's charged forthe subscription.
But I mean in a reallydifferent way, when a user may
have a CFO as an agent that mayperform payments on his behalf
according to the goal.
So I think this strategicchange is coming with more
enablement of A2A and alsofurther power-ups in what LLMs
(24:22):
are doing, and this is reallyexciting times to be, I have to
say.
So this is on AI front.
On non-AI front, I actually wantto go back down to earth for a
second and mention a few thingswhich are also really important,
regardless of AI.
One of them, which I see themchanging in the next two, three
and also five years, I think,embedding payments and embedding
(24:44):
banking and all kinds offinancial functionalities into
non-financial institutions isgoing to continue, and this is
definitely the path forward.
I think these days we're alsoseeing platforms exposing their
business management capabilitiestogether with payments, so that
it's not embedded within theplatform but actually in an
outside web application.
So I think this trend willcontinue with the platforms, but
(25:06):
also with the standalone webapplications.
That's number one.
Number two that I would call outis I would call it real-time
everything.
Look at PIX in Brazil, pixpayment method this is the way
to instantly pay in Brazil,which is already there for a few
years and has been really,really successful, and I can say
the rest of the world is notreally there, and what we'll see
(25:29):
over time is that things likeFedNow or, you know,
corresponding real-time paymentsin other geographies will be
dominant.
But real-time everythingincludes not only real-time
payments but also includes anability to receive that payment
on the merchant side, on theuser accepting the payment side,
to have the settlement alsoinstant and to have the payout
(25:51):
in an instant way.
So I see the change that thiskind of experience will become a
commodity.
There are more things aboutwhich I see is coming, but I
think we've covered, you know,the Pareto of the change.
We didn't speak about regulationand regulation.
It's also going to become moreautomated, more modular, because
RackTag is advancing, by theway.
(26:13):
Going back to AI, just onesmall point we already see how
onboarding, support,underwriting and content
monitoring and risk managementis being performed by AI in a
much better way, in a much moreefficient way.
We see what our people weredoing six months ago and what
(26:35):
they're doing now.
It's a completely differentstory.
Okay, so I definitely seestreamlining that piece
happening.
It's already happening, we seeit happening.
We make it happen also throughour actions.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Do you think it's almost?
I mean, maybe we're not thereyet, but getting pretty close to
where sort of that front endusing AI and using AI for fraud.
So I'm thinking like theonboarding compliance, Is it
close to becoming table stakesnow with AI?
I mean, aren't most paymentscompanies doing that?
I would say you know they are,maybe they're not doing it well,
(27:08):
but I think a lot of them aredoing it right.
I would say they are.
Maybe they're not doing it well, but I think a lot of them are
doing it right.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I would say they start doing it, they can label
it, they do it through the AI,but sometimes that's not
necessarily the case I can saywe're really good at I will try
to answer in a more generic way.
So, look, I think we did reallywell in utilizing structured
data to make decisions and whenit comes to utilizing
(27:34):
unstructured data on top ofstructured data to make
decisions, we still develop thatskill.
For example, I will not talkabout risk of payments, but, for
instance, risk of creditdecision making.
By the way, alex Johnson had agreat article recently which is
called Can LLM ManufactureBetter Credit Decisions, and one
(27:55):
of the things he said is whichI fully agree with there is an
opportunity to improve creditdecision making from the
perspective of unstructured data, because structured data is
kind of a solved problem.
So I think in the payment space, in the credit space and in
other subsegments of financialspace, there is a way to go.
Some companies are doing itreally well already.
(28:16):
Some companies are stilllearning it, still learning how
to do it.
We still have, I think, a longpath there to make it super
solid.
I have to say it also bringsnew challenges because if you
are exposing it to more, youknow ai-based creation platforms
.
You have more and more type ofusers that you do not
necessarily know well enough onhow they perform, so there are
(28:38):
extra opportunities, but alsoextra challenges admit you had
something you wanted to addthere.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, my perspective comes from the fraudsters, I.
I think the question needs tobe in reverse.
Can it not be table stakes?
It cannot.
It's table stakes for thefraudsters now.
So if you look at fraud patterns, if you look at risk emerging,
those who create the risk don'twait.
(29:04):
They don't take time to adapt.
They adapt fast, faster thananyone, right?
If I'm out there to do harms inany way or to create fraud, I
will not wait.
I will test whatever technologycomes down my path, and that
will be in identity theft.
(29:25):
It will be in any kind ofthreat that we've seen so far in
our many years of moving fundsaround the world.
We will just see more of moresophisticated, more using AI
with less trail behind them.
So you can't really fight thatoff with the old tools.
(29:50):
So you have to adapt Literally,you have to.
So I think that for those whoare not seeing this as table
stakes, they need to adapt fast,because I think the threat is
already here.
I think the really interestingquestions is what kind of
threats are we not aware of thathave been generated through
(30:12):
these new technologies alreadyand we're behind, and we will
only understand them once wewill see 10, 20, 30 fraud rings
using state-of-the-art moneylaundering techniques that we
haven't yet experienced, and weknow that that's going to come.
That's a part of the business.
This is why you're constantlyvigilant and you're trying to
(30:34):
have the right controls and theright understanding of what's
happening inside your platform.
And that has to go hand in handwith new technology, and the
technology right now isspecifically AI and Gen AI, but
it's been around since forever.
Every time there has been atechnology change, the first to
(30:55):
adopt it were the fraudsters,and then you try to fight off
the threat that you justdiscovered and you try to
automate it and you try to bebetter than it, and by the time
you're better, they're alreadydoing something else.
So it's kind of a constant race.
So we have to be there.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Right, so let's switch gears a little bit.
Let's talk about you, maybe,walk us through your
professional journey and why youpicked to work at Wix Payments.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Kind of right after college.
I was working at Intel as astudent and I came out of
college I wanted to run my ownstartup.
It took me a while to find theright idea, find the right focus
.
At the time I worked for Tevathe pharmaceutical, and I was
working on product leadership ofmedication.
(31:45):
Working on product leadershipof medication While in the night
, as startup people do, you burnthrough the midnight oil trying
to make your idea work.
And when we raised the firstround, I was free to go devote
my entire time to that and mystartup was around collaborative
creation, kind of similar towhat we see now in Google Drive,
(32:08):
where you have multiplecontributors on a single
document with viewers andcommenters, and we were trying
to create like a platform thatwas more literature oriented.
It wasn't very successful andwhile me and my CTO were
building it with our team, therewas an opportunity to help a
friend who was establishing oneof Israel's biggest e-com online
(32:33):
.
So at that point I got reallyexposed to the e-commerce world.
We built everything on Magento.
We did the first shipping kindof efforts and how do you
procure from manufacturers inChina and in Thailand and all
across the world and it was avery successful e-commerce.
(32:56):
After that I joined my firstfintech endeavor.
I was leading a platform totrade options in a brokerage
platform, basically sellingbrokerages all across the world
on fully regulated brokeragesand really getting to understand
trader psychology, trader stateof mind, risk management, crm,
(33:21):
risk tools and basically goingdeep into the stock and options
world.
After that, israel's firstdigital bank, pepper, was
established and I had anopportunity to lead there the
stock market solutions.
So we built a lot of new thingsback then for Israel fractional
(33:44):
shares and a very interestingplatform that was basically
looking at e-com user patternsand bringing them into the stock
market world for non-investors,for the savers who are looking
to get engaged into the stockmarket world.
(34:07):
And then I was the director ofbanking products for a while,
only to get a call from Wix thatWix is looking for somebody to
join their premium team.
Had a very interesting two-hourwalk on the port with VP
product of Wix, which is a greatguy Shout out to Daddy and you
(34:30):
know he was an entrepreneur atheart and I asked him how come
you were here for 12 years,you've had all these startups
that you did, and how comeyou're inside this organization?
And he said to me.
We're constantly evolving,constantly changing and I was
very skeptical.
I thought I'm going to join fora year and maybe rest a little
(34:52):
bit after my startup adventures.
And ever since it's just beenan uphill run and everything is
challenging and you get thescale and you get the exposure
to helping people in Brazil orworking with a commerce person
in the UK or with a child in theUS who was building his school
(35:12):
class website.
So you get to touch a lot ofpeople and that really rung a
bell with me this ability to dogood, but at a really large
scale.
Not that there is anythingwrong to do good with your own
surrounding, but when you getthis reach of millions and
millions, it's quite a wowfactor.
(35:33):
And inside Wix, I was veryfortunate to be in the right
place in the right time andshortly after I joined it was
decided to form a new company atWix that handles payments and
fintech.
That's when Vova and myself gotconnected and ever since it's
been an amazing, creative,innovative effort.
(35:58):
Again, constantly uphill,constantly challenging.
You know we've had.
The beginning was rocky,because it takes a while to fix
what you're building and to makesure it's good, and by the time
it was good, covid struck andthen everything changed.
Because COVID went, everythingwent hockey stick up, tons of
(36:21):
users, everybody needed anonline presence.
Payment has became super basicand then it was like three years
of COVID uphill only to get toanother change in the market.
There was a bit of a slowdownand then again with all the AI,
so this fluctuation keepshappening.
(36:42):
And Wix, because it's sowidespread.
We're very close to all ofthese changes, so work is always
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Okay, so Vovo same question for you.
Maybe a little about yourcareer background, and then why
Wix?
Speaker 4 (36:59):
Basically I have a software engineering background.
When I went to studies to myhigh school I knew that I wanted
to do software engineering.
I was always interested inengineering, but not in
mechanical engineering, but morerelated to the software.
And it's actually since schooland I was lucky to meet a person
who really instilled this deepinterest in how software works
(37:21):
and how to build great software.
So then when I went touniversity it was very clear for
me that I want to apply for thejob right away and this is what
I did on my first grade, onpurpose.
And actually my professor wasmy first manager and we were
doing accounting software, whichwas amazing.
I never was interested inalgorithmic piece of software
(37:44):
engineering, but more inapplying software to solve real
problems, and for 25 years Ihave been building systems and
platforms of different kinds.
It was related to accounting,it was related to project
management software, bi, insightsoftware, even the TV media
(38:07):
management software, which wasalso like a lot of fun.
And at a certain point Iunderstood that I want to bring
value in a different way, notthrough impact on engineering,
but through broader businessimpact.
I joined Wix, started an e-comjourney and one year working on
e-com, as Amit said, was adecision to create a company
(38:29):
within Wix that is focused onthe fintech developments.
At that point, I startedco-heading that company together
with Amit, so I can say mypayment experience over here at
Wix is actually the first andthe only one so far.
I cannot say it's an upside.
I cannot say it's a downside,but it's been really great on
(38:49):
this journey.
I enjoyed it until this timeand I'm sure I'm going to enjoy
it for a longer time while beinghere with so many things
happening, and I love the factthat we built a really strong
team with which we can take thenext challenge and address it,
which started happening with AI,and we started it a little bit
earlier than the rest of thehype.
(39:10):
Yeah, that's about it.
Now I'm much less involved inengineering, but way more on the
business side of things oncreating the right culture in AI
, of course, and all the thingsthat are needed to actually run.
You know, the big company onscale.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Well, what are some things you're passionate about?
So, maybe one work-relatedpassion and one personal passion
.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
So, on the work one I love, on making product and
service feeling seamless.
Okay, so I'm talking right nowfrom the user perspective, from
the final customer perspective.
I really love giving value andI love to give that value in the
way that user is just, you know, receiving it as something they
breathe.
They don't necessarily thinkabout it, it's just there and it
(39:53):
works.
So this is on the work side.
I understand it's very generic,but this is kind of the, you
know, the North Star guidelinethat I'm aiming to.
On the personal side of things,there are two things which I'm
really into these days.
You know I was always focusedon bringing value, value which
was not like the financial value, but more value for which you
know you can.
You can actually touch and feel, and this is usually not about
(40:16):
money, I have to say so, and atsome point I decided I want to
understand how to make money outof money.
So I immersed myself intotrading and investing and how to
do it right, and it's it's alsovery, very important for me
right now these days.
And the second thing that I'mreally fond of, which is
completely different from thestuff that we have discussed,
I'm really into cars, you knowand aesthetics of the cars and I
(40:39):
own a few of completely likedifferent styles and I love to
ride them, usually in the nightbefore we have a curfew before
12 pm.
I'm always taking a ridethrough the city which is almost
empty, for 15, 20 minutes.
I was even Ubering for a whileand stopped that just for fun.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So that's a little bit about that Nice.
So, Amit, same question for youMaybe a business passion and a
personal passion?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
My business passion ties very much to my personality
.
That is, being creative I hatesaying thinking outside of the
box, because there is no box.
But for me, the team that I lovea lot they joke and they call
me the mixer, because where theywill come with one perspective
(41:25):
and my perspective would verylikely be a different one in my
own way where I can take myunderstanding of one world and
apply it to another.
That, combined with my greatpassion to lead people through
deep understanding, not throughrank or power, my team, as I
(41:48):
like to call it, I'm theirresource.
They're not my resource, I amtheir resource, and if they use
me well, we succeed together.
So the combination of the two,you know, bringing creativity
but effective creativity, notjust for the sake of creativity
alongside with really profoundleadership, is what I love about
(42:11):
what we do.
When it comes to personalpassions, I love cooking.
I cook all the time, especiallyfor my friends and family, but
I've been cooking since I canremember myself with a black
belt in barbecue, in barbecue,so if it's to smoke it or put it
(42:35):
on a rotisserie or grill it, oryeah, you're always welcome to
a really good steak at my house.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Sounds great, sounds great.
So, hey, we've covered a lot ofground, obviously, about the
company, the industry, you guysas professionals and a little
personal.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we wrap up
the show?
And a little personal.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we wrap up
the show?
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I just want to say that I think Vova and myself we
represent a lot of people.
We're lucky enough to be theones that actually get to be
vocal about it, but behind usthere are thousands of people at
Wix and they're really amazingpeople and they're devoting
themselves and their dedication,their knowledge, their time to
(43:12):
doing something very meaningful,and I think it's a really
wonderful culture to be a partof.
So I know it's not FinTech andI know it's not specifically
under any one of those questions, but it is, in my point of view
, one of the most importantthings.
But it is, in my point of view,one of the most important
things the people, the way wework, the culture, the deep
(43:32):
understanding between peoplethat may have been fighting a
moment ago over resources, butnow they understand they need to
move together.
It's a really beautiful culture.
I'm really happy to be part ofit.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Volvo.
Any final comments from you?
I wanted to add something whichis like connected to not
connected to what Amit said,because I fully agree with him.
I want to value add on thethings we talked before.
I think and maybe I will soundlike Captain Obvious, but I'm
very confident that right now weare in the pivotal stage.
We I mean, like you know,people in payments, humanity,
whatever in the pivotal stagewhere we need to embrace, you
(44:14):
know, agility and flexibilityand understand what is changing
around us right now because ofAI and because of the follow-up
steps, is something that we needto, we definitely need to
embrace.
If, in the past, we talked about, you know, about agility and
flexibility, it was alwaysuseful but was not actually
needed on that degree.
Right now, I think it's a musthave.
(44:35):
So, whether you are startingthe journey in payments or not
in payments, in fintech, not infintech I think it's important
to pay attention to that, andnot only pay attention to that,
but actually become a part ofthe change and make the change.
Yeah, that's what I wanted toend up with.
From my point of view, we aregoing into, through that
transition right now and we'regoing through that transition
(44:59):
personally, the ones whounderstand.
I just wish everyone tounderstand that and in addition
to having a strategic decision,also have the strategic action
in that regard.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Okay, I think that's a great way to close out the
show.
So I know both of you, tom,yours is very valuable, so I
want to thank you for being here.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
It's been a pleasure and, to all your listeners out
there, I thank you for your timeas well, and until the next
story.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andon today's show we have two very
special guests the co-heads ofWix Payments, vova Sukhar and
Amit Sajeev.
So thank you both for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hi, greg, thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Absolutely so, vova.
We'll start with you.
Tell our audience a little bitabout yourself, maybe where you
grew up, where you went toschool, where you currently live
, a few things like that.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Okay, currently live a few things like that.
Okay, so we'll start withnon-professional stuff, right?
Basically, I'm based in ukraine.
I was born in a small townwhich is called pokrovsk.
Like in the age of 10, I movedto another city, so that was on
the east, so we moved to thevery west.
That's where I've ended my kindof finished my studies and
education and then, when I waslooking for great opportunities,
the obvious choice was to go tothe capital.
(01:03):
So, so I went to Kiev, and thisis where I'm based at right now
.
I used to call it the best cityin the world.
Yeah, so I have.
I have a boy three years old,living with my wife over here.
You know, really enjoying thetime, even though the times are
harsh in a way.
You know what's going on in ourcountry, but we develop our
resilience and move forward.
That's the only way to go.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That's a little bit about myself, awesome.
So, amit, same question for you.
So very nice to meet you all.
My name is Amit Sagiv, 44, outof Tel Aviv, israel, father of
three beautiful daughters.
I grew up in the South, verymuch engineering product guy at
heart, always took apartwhatever I could and brought it
back together as something new.
So everything electric aroundthe house started off as a TV
(01:50):
and ended up as a guitar andkind of that's what I've been
doing ever since.
You know, imagining new things,looking at the world from my
own perspective.
I studied at Technion, which islike Israel's MIT, and very
quickly went intoentrepreneurship.
I had a small startup dealingwith collaborative creation and
(02:15):
worked.
Shortly after I went intofintech and worked in various
different places building allkinds of solutions for stock
trading, digital banking,payment solutions, and was
really privileged to work withsome really talented people
along the way and to learn thetech and fintech revolution from
(02:38):
the inside out.
And for the past seven yearsI've been co-heading with
Vovahir payments at Wix andbringing the fintech revolution
to all of our Wix users.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Okay.
So, amit, let's stick with youIf you don't mind.
Before we jump into the Wixpayments part, maybe for those
in the audience that doesn'tknow exactly what Wix does,
maybe just give us that highlevel definition of Wix what Wix
does.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Maybe just give us that high level definition of
Wix.
So Wix is basically a platformto bring all of your dreams
online, businesses desires.
We have over 282 million, ifI'm not mistaken, registered
(03:27):
users across the world.
Millions of them are premiums.
We've been building the mostextensive operating system,
basically to build any dreamonline and physical.
So Wix has been supporting 190countries, so many different
languages, and byproduct of thatis the finance aspect and
everything that you need tosupport in payments.
But if you want to imagine, anykind of business that wants to
(03:49):
go online can basically use theoperating system that is Wix.
And Wix is built in a reallyspecial way and similar to how
an operating system hasdifferent components that are
independent but actually worktogether.
Wix is built in a similar way.
So we have an e-com set ofcapabilities and we have
(04:09):
services and we have our websiteeditors and we have marketing
tools and we have a payment andfintech suite.
So all of these variouscomponents are basically
allowing the small, the mediumkind of businesses to build
their presence online.
We provide endless flexibilityin terms of visual and
(04:33):
capabilities.
But it also translates to apps.
It translates to web apps.
It translates to responsivewebsites.
We have physical POS, so youwill find in our super diverse
portfolio of users from mom andpop shops to hotels, to a kid at
(04:55):
school doing a project.
So we cater to a lot of usecases.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Okay, so maybe, Vova, you could explain the payments
and fintech portion of that.
What solutions you providethere?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Of course, I would gladly do that.
So basically, in the Wixecosystem, we provide basically
two suits of solutions for ourcustomers.
One of them is basically youcan go and use a third-party
payment provider on your siteAmit spoke about e-commerce
(05:31):
experience or bookingsexperience, services, events,
restaurants and all those kindof verticals so you can connect
a third party like stripe or orpaypal and process through them
within the wix site.
Or we also give the nativeembedded payment experience
which is called wix payments,and I have to say this is like
this is what our users prefer.
This is what our users prefer.
This is what our users areactually choosing, and it's been
a challenging game to get tothis point, but we can
(05:51):
definitely right now say thatit's a default solution and
there are big pros in our Wixpayments offering by giving them
better experience.
Those pros are think about itlike if Wix is a place where the
user is creating onlinepresence, managing their
day-to-day editing products,managing inventory, also doing
(06:13):
the SEO promotion or marketingpromotion Google ads and
Facebook ads we kind ofpositioned in the way that we
can also maximize success forthese users, no matter whether
they're big or small from thefinancial perspective, and this
is exactly what we do, and itstarts with payments, of course,
and it kind of continues in theway we also onboard the
(06:33):
customer.
Because we know about thecustomer a lot, we can say that
we have a frictionlessexperience in the onboarding
where the user can engage andstart accepting payments as fast
as possible.
We, to compare us and actuallywe are we're probably the one in
the industry, or one of the oneof the few, who are providing
this uh kind of deferred modewhen customers can start
(06:55):
accepting payments without beingfully verified.
Of course, they will getverified when, uh when, they
will need to receive theirpayouts, but the way to start in
a frictionless way is supersimple and seamless.
So this is like, in a nutshell,and this business that we have
built here together with Amitand our amazing team all kudos
(07:16):
go to the team, of course.
Right now, in terms of likerevenues, we are bringing around
215 million.
That's the data for 2024 out of1.76B for the overall weeks.
So this is like a big portionof the revenues and what is
really close to my heart, it'sreal value for our customers.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So, amit, are there other fintech products beyond
payments that you're offering ormaybe will be offering soon?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
So yes, there are a few products tech products
beyond payments that you'reoffering or maybe will be
offering soon.
So, yes, there are a fewproducts that we've been
providing along the years,whether they're integrations to
external accounting or theability to receive invoice and
kind of charge through paymentlinks and all kinds of different
(08:07):
checkout and AI experiencesthat we're constantly enhancing
our platform with to engage withthe buyers and the merchant in
such a deeper way.
We have all kinds of enginesthat we've built inside our
system throughout the yearsbecause we see the data of the
user in a very holistic way, wecan understand in a really
(08:30):
profound and, unlike otherpayment providers, because we
see the end-to-end all the wayfrom the moment you logged into
the first time registration intothe Wix account, we know who
you are and we understand youridentity really well.
We can understand the risk thatis involved with processing
your business.
So, definitely, areas offinancial services are very
(08:54):
relevant because of thatintimate and, I would say,
direct knowledge of the user andthe risk that they bring.
We have various financialproducts coming down soon.
We can't be too explicit, butyou can connect the dots and our
users are very happy with thosesolutions we've seen Throughout
(09:15):
the years.
We've introduced POS as well.
That opened up the wholephysical experience and that's
POS on quite a wide range,whether you're a small pop-up
shop that just needs a tap topay on your phone, or as a
dongle extension all the way tofull POS systems with card
(09:36):
readers and cash drawers andeverything that comes together
with that.
So, yes, payment is the core,but it evolves and extends as
much as the user needs it.
We're very much following theuser requests and their own
growth.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Okay.
So, amit, sticking with you fora second.
So would a typical use case behey, I'm a small business, could
be a retail shop, and I want tohave an e-commerce presence and
sell online.
I go to Wix, I build my website.
Payments are automaticallyintegrated.
I mean, is that typically theuse case that Wix has?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So I'd say it splits into basically two use cases.
One is the classic DIY, asyou've mentioned, pretty similar
to the way you described it.
Users may go in various pathsbut eventually they would have a
live website with theirproducts or services, with their
(10:38):
payment system, connected withthe catalog, with everything
that needs to be done in orderto have a good interaction with
your buyers.
That's one path.
The other path is through whatis partners and agencies.
These are do it for me, not DIY, but do it for me, which is a
big portion of the presenceonline is being built by
(11:01):
professionals.
If I'm a baker, I'm really goodat making bread.
I might not be as good assetting up my photo gallery and
the right messaging and theright tone of voice, and I would
need somebody to help me withbranding, with marketing, with
establishing my presence.
So we have a very vastrelationship with partners and
(11:24):
agencies across the world whobuild websites for all kinds of
users.
So, if you want to imagine thatexperience, that is even kind
of more complicated for thepayment system, because I'm not
onboarding the website builder,I'm onboarding his customer.
So we have quite a veryextensive point of view over who
(11:48):
does what, the roles,responsibilities.
To enable that experience thatVova mentioned in the past about
that smooth onboarding,frictionless, something that
sees the user in a very he's thecenter she's the center right
and not the website or Wix, butthe user who is trying to
establish their solution weprogrammatically constantly
(12:12):
collect data and then transferit to create those stable
accounts right.
So we know the names, we knowthe emails.
We can use that informationprogrammatically behind the
scene to establish what we need.
So those are the main two setsof experiences.
There are also others.
(12:32):
Wix is also verydeveloper-oriented, so you might
have developers that arebuilding.
They would build their ownclient and would just connect to
the Wix back office and use ourfunctionality through our
headless capabilities and ourpublicly documented APIs.
So there are various entrypoints into creating your Wix
(12:55):
site and your Wix app and wesupport all of them.
So, from a payment and afinancial perspective, we have
multiple types of users.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Okay, great.
And a financial perspective wehave multiple types of users
Okay, great.
So, vova, what would you saydifferentiates Wix payments from
your competitors out there?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I have a few things to mention on this one.
So basically, I starteddeliberating on it when I was
giving a previous answer.
But because we know thecustomer really well, because
Wix is the place where the useris performing their day-to-day
and because this customer isalso paying for Wix services,
which we call premium.
So if you want to create a sitewith a domain and have an
(13:35):
ability to accept payments, youalso need to buy premium.
We kind of know more about thecustomer and that gives us an
opportunity to onboard him inthe easiest way.
So the path from the intent Iwant to accept payments to
actually getting the firstpayment is super frictionless
and this is definitely theknow-how and it's actually very
hard to build.
(13:56):
And we designed it togetherwith our partners, with our
payment partners, so that it'sgoing to be super solid and also
manage all types of risks thatsuch an experience might
introduce.
So that's number one.
Number two, in terms of thevariety of payment methods that
we give to our customers, weprovide a lot.
(14:18):
Just recently we've launchedalso PayPal.
So we have the cards, we havePayPal, we have Apple Pay and
Google Pay.
Of course, amit mentionedbefore that we have POS device,
which is also accepting.
Like, we have a POS device formanaging the catalog and then
also the actual POS paymentdevice and on top of that I
didn't mention local paymentmethods.
(14:39):
So, in terms of, like, the fullcoverage of the pay in channels
, we definitely check the box.
So this is number two.
Number three, which is notrelated to functionalities but
to, I can call it, enablement,and I want to continue the story
that Amit started before.
We're all following the user'sdesire and the user's path and
(15:01):
we have worked really, reallyhard and still working, on
making sure that the user isgoing to be enabled.
Making sure that the user isgoing to be enabled, okay, we
have seen a lot of cases whenusers turn to third party
payment providers and they, youknow, get a bump in the journey
and either the onboarding is notfrictionless or they're
completely you know, they'recompletely not accepted, but
(15:22):
it's a valid business.
Okay, it's not a fraudster,it's a fully compliant and valid
business and because we havemany customers who are really
tiny, small SMBs, for them it'sreally important to get on this
journey and feel that they areenabled.
So giving this experience fromthe product perspective and from
the service perspective issomething that I can say,
(15:45):
definitely differentiates usfrom the rest of the solutions.
And, again, it was really hardto do and we also had we
ourselves had bumps on thejourney.
Building this trust took timeand at this point we can say you
know, we have advanced.
So those three things I wouldsay right now are the key
(16:06):
differentiators, from theembedded payments perspective,
on how our solution is betterthan others.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay, Amit, anything you'd add to that?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I'd add one thing we combine and they compete.
So the way we look at ourpayment providers that are
working with us, we are workingin a multi-processor mode.
Wix Payment sits on top ofmulti-processors and we
facilitate the best experienceout of everyone's offering, all
(16:39):
consolidated into one flow soyou wouldn't feel the friction
but we would bypass a lot ofhiccups along the way.
So, while individual paymentproviders compete with each
other, because we are at theplatform level and we're
integrated into all of them, weactually combine, so we don't
need to compete, and that bringselevated performances across
(17:03):
all metrics and it gives us areally in-depth point of view to
risk, to compliance, to userexperience and once you
understand that you can leveragethe best out of all worlds, it
really opens up this path to areally good product.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And the one who is really winning in this story is
the final user right.
Also look at it, let's say,from the compliance perspective.
One payment partner may notnecessarily accept certain type
of business right, but the otherone can, and it's our job to
guide it, to guide in theprocess and the way and actually
do it behind the scenes so thatthe user is enabled at the end
(17:45):
of the day and has frictionlessexperience in an ongoing fashion
at the end of the day and hasfrictionless experience in an
ongoing fashion.
So this multiprocessor setup isby design and for the benefit
of the user.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So, amit, let's talk about the future a little bit.
Where do you see the industryheaded in, say, the next three
to five years?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
So I see us actually building the future as we speak.
There are so many shaping andforming technologies and
platforms around us, and I'm notmeaning it in the buzzword-y
sense of the way.
I think Gen AI has changeddramatically the way many things
have been perceived.
We've built our own AI strategyfive years ago.
(18:33):
We have in-house data scienceand agentic systems and we've
been running our compliance andrisk and many, many things in
this way for a very long timenow, because we knew we need to
be laser sharp and not veryheadcount heavy.
We've created models andclassification tools and risk
assessments and all these thingsthat now I see flooding
(18:55):
LinkedIn in these diagrams ofthis is how you build agentic
systems.
I just had a conversation todaywith our data science lead that
it's really beautiful that weactually have it running for a
long time now and we see thatevolving.
We see the agentic e-commercecoming into life slowly.
We do understand that the waypeople engaged with information
(19:21):
is changing.
The way you approach searchengine is changing.
So the way you find products,the way you find services, the
way you expose your brand ischanging and it's obvious that,
while it's an uncharted path,right, we see these products
that are coming up now.
You know, claude Biontropic hasthis massive abilities with the
(19:44):
new MCP layers.
We see Google's protocol of theA2A.
There's a lot of things thatare coming.
They're very raw in nature andwe understand and we've been
inside this kind of fluctuationas Wix for a few times and
adapted to new levels oftechnology.
We've had our first AI editorat 2018, I think Wix.
(20:09):
So we've had a few runs at thisand we see the progression
being more and more personalized.
Experience now is expected tobe almost in a singularity point
, because if we used to speakabout segmentations and user
funnels coming in varioussegments, we understand now that
(20:32):
as you type into your chat GPTor any one of those LLMs, you're
expecting a specific contextualanswer out of your entire
multiple threads that you mayhave.
If I'm looking for a shirtright now, I'm expecting it to
already know my size becauseI've engaged with it in the past
(20:54):
and there's a question of howthat experience would look like.
I think many companies now areforming this new approach.
How does payment look in thisnew world?
I've been a big advocate forstablecoin for many years as
infrastructure move, less from acryptocurrency replacement
(21:17):
point of view for the fiats, butmore as the ability to do
things faster in a moreefficient way, where the
compliance level might beembedded into the way the smart
contracts are written.
So there's a lot of progressionthat we can do with smarter
currencies.
They might have the samemonetary value but in essence,
(21:42):
as a protocol, they enabledifferent things.
So I think we're askingourselves how do we take our
users, our SMBs, into this newworld?
What do we give them?
What kind of access we giveinto the capabilities of Wix for
this new world?
Because I think a lot of thegates that were closed are being
(22:06):
opened now and certainassumptions that certain
companies had along the way thatthis is the only way to use my
product, that's if you log intomy CRM and you start working,
and now you see more and more ofthose bridges starting to be
built between the Zapiers, theWix, all these platforms of the
(22:29):
world, into those LLMs, and thenyou have tools sitting on top
of those LLMs, creating accessagain to those platforms.
So it's very much forming pathright now.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Volvo.
Anything you would add to that?
I mean, we talked about AI andcrypto a little bit.
Are there other things thatyou'd like to mention there
about the future?
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Actually, I have a lot to add and I will not repeat
the right things that Amit said.
On the AI front, I think thereis a tactical change, but there
is also the strategic change tothe way payments are performed,
and I will try to explain how Ienvision it.
On the tactical front, we willsee payments being embedded in
(23:13):
this new type of interfaces,into chat GPTs of the world,
into new mediums, and also theplatforms like Stripe or
commerce builders like Wix willalso continue pursuing exposing
their functionality to these newkind of mediums.
So this is going to be to me,this is a tactical step.
It's a really important one,but the strategic step I would
(23:36):
say it's act.
Two is something else.
I see, at the end of the day,payments being kind of naked,
kind of free from UX.
Okay.
So I see agents talking to eachother and performing payments
without necessarily user beingin the flow.
We kind of have a simplisticway to do it these days with
typical subscriptions right,when the user doesn't have to be
(23:58):
there, when he's charged forthe subscription.
But I mean in a reallydifferent way, when a user may
have a CFO as an agent that mayperform payments on his behalf
according to the goal.
So I think this strategicchange is coming with more
enablement of A2A and alsofurther power-ups in what LLMs
(24:22):
are doing, and this is reallyexciting times to be, I have to
say.
So this is on AI front.
On non-AI front, I actually wantto go back down to earth for a
second and mention a few thingswhich are also really important,
regardless of AI.
One of them, which I see themchanging in the next two, three
and also five years, I think,embedding payments and embedding
(24:44):
banking and all kinds offinancial functionalities into
non-financial institutions isgoing to continue, and this is
definitely the path forward.
I think these days we're alsoseeing platforms exposing their
business management capabilitiestogether with payments, so that
it's not embedded within theplatform but actually in an
outside web application.
So I think this trend willcontinue with the platforms, but
(25:06):
also with the standalone webapplications.
That's number one.
Number two that I would call outis I would call it real-time
everything.
Look at PIX in Brazil, pixpayment method this is the way
to instantly pay in Brazil,which is already there for a few
years and has been really,really successful, and I can say
the rest of the world is notreally there, and what we'll see
(25:29):
over time is that things likeFedNow or, you know,
corresponding real-time paymentsin other geographies will be
dominant.
But real-time everythingincludes not only real-time
payments but also includes anability to receive that payment
on the merchant side, on theuser accepting the payment side,
to have the settlement alsoinstant and to have the payout
(25:51):
in an instant way.
So I see the change that thiskind of experience will become a
commodity.
There are more things aboutwhich I see is coming, but I
think we've covered, you know,the Pareto of the change.
We didn't speak about regulationand regulation.
It's also going to become moreautomated, more modular, because
RackTag is advancing, by theway.
(26:13):
Going back to AI, just onesmall point we already see how
onboarding, support,underwriting and content
monitoring and risk managementis being performed by AI in a
much better way, in a much moreefficient way.
We see what our people weredoing six months ago and what
(26:35):
they're doing now.
It's a completely differentstory.
Okay, so I definitely seestreamlining that piece
happening.
It's already happening, we seeit happening.
We make it happen also throughour actions.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Do you think it's almost?
I mean, maybe we're not thereyet, but getting pretty close to
where sort of that front endusing AI and using AI for fraud.
So I'm thinking like theonboarding compliance, Is it
close to becoming table stakesnow with AI?
I mean, aren't most paymentscompanies doing that?
I would say you know they are,maybe they're not doing it well,
(27:08):
but I think a lot of them aredoing it right.
I would say they are.
Maybe they're not doing it well, but I think a lot of them are
doing it right.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I would say they start doing it, they can label
it, they do it through the AI,but sometimes that's not
necessarily the case I can saywe're really good at I will try
to answer in a more generic way.
So, look, I think we did reallywell in utilizing structured
data to make decisions and whenit comes to utilizing
(27:34):
unstructured data on top ofstructured data to make
decisions, we still develop thatskill.
For example, I will not talkabout risk of payments, but, for
instance, risk of creditdecision making.
By the way, alex Johnson had agreat article recently which is
called Can LLM ManufactureBetter Credit Decisions, and one
(27:55):
of the things he said is whichI fully agree with there is an
opportunity to improve creditdecision making from the
perspective of unstructured data, because structured data is
kind of a solved problem.
So I think in the payment space, in the credit space and in
other subsegments of financialspace, there is a way to go.
Some companies are doing itreally well already.
(28:16):
Some companies are stilllearning it, still learning how
to do it.
We still have, I think, a longpath there to make it super
solid.
I have to say it also bringsnew challenges because if you
are exposing it to more, youknow ai-based creation platforms
.
You have more and more type ofusers that you do not
necessarily know well enough onhow they perform, so there are
(28:38):
extra opportunities, but alsoextra challenges admit you had
something you wanted to addthere.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, my perspective comes from the fraudsters, I.
I think the question needs tobe in reverse.
Can it not be table stakes?
It cannot.
It's table stakes for thefraudsters now.
So if you look at fraud patterns, if you look at risk emerging,
those who create the risk don'twait.
(29:04):
They don't take time to adapt.
They adapt fast, faster thananyone, right?
If I'm out there to do harms inany way or to create fraud, I
will not wait.
I will test whatever technologycomes down my path, and that
will be in identity theft.
(29:25):
It will be in any kind ofthreat that we've seen so far in
our many years of moving fundsaround the world.
We will just see more of moresophisticated, more using AI
with less trail behind them.
So you can't really fight thatoff with the old tools.
(29:50):
So you have to adapt Literally,you have to.
So I think that for those whoare not seeing this as table
stakes, they need to adapt fast,because I think the threat is
already here.
I think the really interestingquestions is what kind of
threats are we not aware of thathave been generated through
(30:12):
these new technologies alreadyand we're behind, and we will
only understand them once wewill see 10, 20, 30 fraud rings
using state-of-the-art moneylaundering techniques that we
haven't yet experienced, and weknow that that's going to come.
That's a part of the business.
This is why you're constantlyvigilant and you're trying to
(30:34):
have the right controls and theright understanding of what's
happening inside your platform.
And that has to go hand in handwith new technology, and the
technology right now isspecifically AI and Gen AI, but
it's been around since forever.
Every time there has been atechnology change, the first to
(30:55):
adopt it were the fraudsters,and then you try to fight off
the threat that you justdiscovered and you try to
automate it and you try to bebetter than it, and by the time
you're better, they're alreadydoing something else.
So it's kind of a constant race.
So we have to be there.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Right, so let's switch gears a little bit.
Let's talk about you, maybe,walk us through your
professional journey and why youpicked to work at Wix Payments.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Kind of right after college.
I was working at Intel as astudent and I came out of
college I wanted to run my ownstartup.
It took me a while to find theright idea, find the right focus
.
At the time I worked for Tevathe pharmaceutical, and I was
working on product leadership ofmedication.
(31:45):
Working on product leadershipof medication While in the night
, as startup people do, you burnthrough the midnight oil trying
to make your idea work.
And when we raised the firstround, I was free to go devote
my entire time to that and mystartup was around collaborative
creation, kind of similar towhat we see now in Google Drive,
(32:08):
where you have multiplecontributors on a single
document with viewers andcommenters, and we were trying
to create like a platform thatwas more literature oriented.
It wasn't very successful andwhile me and my CTO were
building it with our team, therewas an opportunity to help a
friend who was establishing oneof Israel's biggest e-com online
(32:33):
.
So at that point I got reallyexposed to the e-commerce world.
We built everything on Magento.
We did the first shipping kindof efforts and how do you
procure from manufacturers inChina and in Thailand and all
across the world and it was avery successful e-commerce.
(32:56):
After that I joined my firstfintech endeavor.
I was leading a platform totrade options in a brokerage
platform, basically sellingbrokerages all across the world
on fully regulated brokeragesand really getting to understand
trader psychology, trader stateof mind, risk management, crm,
(33:21):
risk tools and basically goingdeep into the stock and options
world.
After that, israel's firstdigital bank, pepper, was
established and I had anopportunity to lead there the
stock market solutions.
So we built a lot of new thingsback then for Israel fractional
(33:44):
shares and a very interestingplatform that was basically
looking at e-com user patternsand bringing them into the stock
market world for non-investors,for the savers who are looking
to get engaged into the stockmarket world.
(34:07):
And then I was the director ofbanking products for a while,
only to get a call from Wix thatWix is looking for somebody to
join their premium team.
Had a very interesting two-hourwalk on the port with VP
product of Wix, which is a greatguy Shout out to Daddy and you
(34:30):
know he was an entrepreneur atheart and I asked him how come
you were here for 12 years,you've had all these startups
that you did, and how comeyou're inside this organization?
And he said to me.
We're constantly evolving,constantly changing and I was
very skeptical.
I thought I'm going to join fora year and maybe rest a little
(34:52):
bit after my startup adventures.
And ever since it's just beenan uphill run and everything is
challenging and you get thescale and you get the exposure
to helping people in Brazil orworking with a commerce person
in the UK or with a child in theUS who was building his school
(35:12):
class website.
So you get to touch a lot ofpeople and that really rung a
bell with me this ability to dogood, but at a really large
scale.
Not that there is anythingwrong to do good with your own
surrounding, but when you getthis reach of millions and
millions, it's quite a wowfactor.
(35:33):
And inside Wix, I was veryfortunate to be in the right
place in the right time andshortly after I joined it was
decided to form a new company atWix that handles payments and
fintech.
That's when Vova and myself gotconnected and ever since it's
been an amazing, creative,innovative effort.
(35:58):
Again, constantly uphill,constantly challenging.
You know we've had.
The beginning was rocky,because it takes a while to fix
what you're building and to makesure it's good, and by the time
it was good, covid struck andthen everything changed.
Because COVID went, everythingwent hockey stick up, tons of
(36:21):
users, everybody needed anonline presence.
Payment has became super basicand then it was like three years
of COVID uphill only to get toanother change in the market.
There was a bit of a slowdownand then again with all the AI,
so this fluctuation keepshappening.
(36:42):
And Wix, because it's sowidespread.
We're very close to all ofthese changes, so work is always
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Okay, so Vovo same question for you.
Maybe a little about yourcareer background, and then why
Wix?
Speaker 4 (36:59):
Basically I have a software engineering background.
When I went to studies to myhigh school I knew that I wanted
to do software engineering.
I was always interested inengineering, but not in
mechanical engineering, but morerelated to the software.
And it's actually since schooland I was lucky to meet a person
who really instilled this deepinterest in how software works
(37:21):
and how to build great software.
So then when I went touniversity it was very clear for
me that I want to apply for thejob right away and this is what
I did on my first grade, onpurpose.
And actually my professor wasmy first manager and we were
doing accounting software, whichwas amazing.
I never was interested inalgorithmic piece of software
(37:44):
engineering, but more inapplying software to solve real
problems, and for 25 years Ihave been building systems and
platforms of different kinds.
It was related to accounting,it was related to project
management software, bi, insightsoftware, even the TV media
(38:07):
management software, which wasalso like a lot of fun.
And at a certain point Iunderstood that I want to bring
value in a different way, notthrough impact on engineering,
but through broader businessimpact.
I joined Wix, started an e-comjourney and one year working on
e-com, as Amit said, was adecision to create a company
(38:29):
within Wix that is focused onthe fintech developments.
At that point, I startedco-heading that company together
with Amit, so I can say mypayment experience over here at
Wix is actually the first andthe only one so far.
I cannot say it's an upside.
I cannot say it's a downside,but it's been really great on
(38:49):
this journey.
I enjoyed it until this timeand I'm sure I'm going to enjoy
it for a longer time while beinghere with so many things
happening, and I love the factthat we built a really strong
team with which we can take thenext challenge and address it,
which started happening with AI,and we started it a little bit
earlier than the rest of thehype.
(39:10):
Yeah, that's about it.
Now I'm much less involved inengineering, but way more on the
business side of things oncreating the right culture in AI
, of course, and all the thingsthat are needed to actually run.
You know, the big company onscale.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Well, what are some things you're passionate about?
So, maybe one work-relatedpassion and one personal passion
.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
So, on the work one I love, on making product and
service feeling seamless.
Okay, so I'm talking right nowfrom the user perspective, from
the final customer perspective.
I really love giving value andI love to give that value in the
way that user is just, you know, receiving it as something they
breathe.
They don't necessarily thinkabout it, it's just there and it
(39:53):
works.
So this is on the work side.
I understand it's very generic,but this is kind of the, you
know, the North Star guidelinethat I'm aiming to.
On the personal side of things,there are two things which I'm
really into these days.
You know I was always focusedon bringing value, value which
was not like the financial value, but more value for which you
know you can.
You can actually touch and feel, and this is usually not about
(40:16):
money, I have to say so, and atsome point I decided I want to
understand how to make money outof money.
So I immersed myself intotrading and investing and how to
do it right, and it's it's alsovery, very important for me
right now these days.
And the second thing that I'mreally fond of, which is
completely different from thestuff that we have discussed,
I'm really into cars, you knowand aesthetics of the cars and I
(40:39):
own a few of completely likedifferent styles and I love to
ride them, usually in the nightbefore we have a curfew before
12 pm.
I'm always taking a ridethrough the city which is almost
empty, for 15, 20 minutes.
I was even Ubering for a whileand stopped that just for fun.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So that's a little bit about that Nice.
So, Amit, same question for youMaybe a business passion and a
personal passion?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
My business passion ties very much to my personality
.
That is, being creative I hatesaying thinking outside of the
box, because there is no box.
But for me, the team that I lovea lot they joke and they call
me the mixer, because where theywill come with one perspective
(41:25):
and my perspective would verylikely be a different one in my
own way where I can take myunderstanding of one world and
apply it to another.
That, combined with my greatpassion to lead people through
deep understanding, not throughrank or power, my team, as I
(41:48):
like to call it, I'm theirresource.
They're not my resource, I amtheir resource, and if they use
me well, we succeed together.
So the combination of the two,you know, bringing creativity
but effective creativity, notjust for the sake of creativity
alongside with really profoundleadership, is what I love about
(42:11):
what we do.
When it comes to personalpassions, I love cooking.
I cook all the time, especiallyfor my friends and family, but
I've been cooking since I canremember myself with a black
belt in barbecue, in barbecue,so if it's to smoke it or put it
(42:35):
on a rotisserie or grill it, oryeah, you're always welcome to
a really good steak at my house.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Sounds great, sounds great.
So, hey, we've covered a lot ofground, obviously, about the
company, the industry, you guysas professionals and a little
personal.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we wrap up
the show?
And a little personal.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we wrap up
the show?
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I just want to say that I think Vova and myself we
represent a lot of people.
We're lucky enough to be theones that actually get to be
vocal about it, but behind usthere are thousands of people at
Wix and they're really amazingpeople and they're devoting
themselves and their dedication,their knowledge, their time to
(43:12):
doing something very meaningful,and I think it's a really
wonderful culture to be a partof.
So I know it's not FinTech andI know it's not specifically
under any one of those questions, but it is, in my point of view
, one of the most importantthings.
But it is, in my point of view,one of the most important
things the people, the way wework, the culture, the deep
(43:32):
understanding between peoplethat may have been fighting a
moment ago over resources, butnow they understand they need to
move together.
It's a really beautiful culture.
I'm really happy to be part ofit.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Volvo.
Any final comments from you?
I wanted to add something whichis like connected to not
connected to what Amit said,because I fully agree with him.
I want to value add on thethings we talked before.
I think and maybe I will soundlike Captain Obvious, but I'm
very confident that right now weare in the pivotal stage.
We I mean, like you know,people in payments, humanity,
whatever in the pivotal stagewhere we need to embrace, you
(44:14):
know, agility and flexibilityand understand what is changing
around us right now because ofAI and because of the follow-up
steps, is something that we needto, we definitely need to
embrace.
If, in the past, we talked about, you know, about agility and
flexibility, it was alwaysuseful but was not actually
needed on that degree.
Right now, I think it's a musthave.
(44:35):
So, whether you are startingthe journey in payments or not
in payments, in fintech, not infintech I think it's important
to pay attention to that, andnot only pay attention to that,
but actually become a part ofthe change and make the change.
Yeah, that's what I wanted toend up with.
From my point of view, we aregoing into, through that
transition right now and we'regoing through that transition
(44:59):
personally, the ones whounderstand.
I just wish everyone tounderstand that and in addition
to having a strategic decision,also have the strategic action
in that regard.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Okay, I think that's a great way to close out the
show.
So I know both of you, tom,yours is very valuable, so I
want to thank you for being here.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
It's been a pleasure and, to all your listeners out
there, I thank you for your timeas well, and until the next
story.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.