May 28, 2025 • 34 mins
We’ve officially reached 400 episodes of the Leaders in Payments Podcast - and what a journey it’s been. I’m incredibly proud of this milestone and truly grateful to our listeners, guests, and community. With over 375 guests featured, we’ve uncovered countless insights from the best minds in the business.
To celebrate episode 400, I sat down with Barry McCarthy, President and CEO of Deluxe. Barry takes us on a fascinating journey through the transformation of a century-old company once known primarily for check printing into a modern payments and data powerhouse.
What does a company do when its core business faces digital disruption? For Deluxe, the answer was bold reinvention. McCarthy reveals how the company now processes approximately $3 trillion annually across four integrated business lines: merchant services targeting mid-market businesses, B2B payments focused on accounts receivable/payable management, data-driven marketing leveraging one of the industry's largest consumer databases, and their legacy print operations.
The conversation explores how Deluxe has strategically repositioned itself at the intersection of payments, data, and artificial intelligence. McCarthy shares specific examples of how they're applying AI to solve real business problems, from matching payments to invoices to identifying high-converting marketing leads. His vision for the future of payments is particularly compelling – a world where payment processing becomes as invisible and omnipresent as electricity, simply working in the background without conscious thought.
Whether you're a payments industry veteran or just beginning your fintech career, this milestone 400th episode delivers rich insights on corporate transformation, the future of embedded payments, and the strategic application of artificial intelligence in financial services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andthis is episode 400 of our show,
so it's a milestone that I'mvery proud of and one that I
want to thank my listeners foralways listening the input that
I've had.
I really appreciate that.
So, to commemorate the 400thepisode, I wanted to have on a
special guest.
So joining me today is BarryMcCarthy, the president and CEO
(00:41):
of Deluxe.
So, Barry, thank you so muchfor being here and welcome to
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, Greg, thanks for having me.
It's quite an honor to be hereon the 400th episode.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Absolutely.
So let's go ahead and dive in,if you don't mind.
Tell our audience a little bitabout yourself, maybe where you
grew up, where you went toschool, where you currently live
, a few things like that.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Sure.
So I grew up outside of ChicagoIllinois, up outside of Chicago
Illinois, Went to theUniversity of Illinois as an
undergrad, I went toNorthwestern Kellogg for
business school and afterundergrad I started my career at
Procter and Gamble, and one ofthe things that people always
seem to find humorous is that Iwas the top shampoo salesman
(01:19):
during my time at P&G.
I climbed the ranks fromcalling on grocery stores on up
to having brand and productmanagement and marketing and
customer managementresponsibility at P&G and made
my first jump into FinTech andpayments when I joined Wells
Fargo.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And we'll jump back into a little bit more of your
career in a few minutes.
But let's talk about thecompany Deluxe.
I love the banner behind you.
Tell our audience, like mostpeople are going to know, the
name.
Deluxe has a great brand nameand some people might remember
it from the check printing daysand obviously you've
transitioned that business quitea bit.
But maybe tell us what Deluxedoes in kind of the markets that
you're in today.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Sure, greg, I think Deluxe may be one of those
companies that, if you knew itfive or ten years ago, it's a
very, very different companytoday than what it was five or
10 years ago and certainly, ifyou have a memory longer than
that, it's a very, verydifferent company.
And so today the company reallyhas transformed itself into
becoming a payments and datacompany, and the company
(02:18):
operates four businesses.
We have a merchant processingbusiness that we acquired in
June of 2021.
We have a B2B payments businesswhere we manage accounts,
receivables and account payableand digitize those transactions.
And we have a data-drivenmarketing business where we help
businesses target market tofind their next customer.
(02:39):
And, of course, our fourthbusiness is the legacy business
that most people are familiarwith, which is check printing
and printing of forms and otherthings like that.
The revenue is pretty balancednow between the legacy print
businesses and our payments anddata businesses, but it's been a
long time since the check partof our company was the biggest
source of revenue and very proudof that transformation.
(03:00):
In aggregate, the companyprocesses around $3 trillion a
year in payments volume acrossour merchant business and our
digital, ar and AP businesses.
I'm very, very excited aboutthe future for the company.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Okay, and on the merchant services side, since
this is obviously a payment show, we'll talk more about that,
but is it focused on smallbusiness or do you have
solutions across the board?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So where we really compete is in the very big and
profitable middle market.
So there's the guys at the topof the market, the giants I
worked for one of them for manyyears 14 years and then there's
the guys that are really focusedmore on micro merchants and
increasingly people are movingtowards that middle market space
.
But we really target businessesthat have significant ongoing
(03:48):
volume.
So the art fair or craft fairon Saturday is not really our
target market, although wecertainly have customers there,
and we certainly don't have aWalmart or a Target at the other
end.
But businesses that havemillions to hundreds of millions
of dollars of revenue orbillions of dollars of revenue
are our customers and wedistribute through multiple
(04:11):
channels.
Of course we serve integratedsoftware vendors and ISOs.
We have a significant bankchannel that's leveraging the
strength of the company'shistory.
We have a nice business instate and local government,
not-for-profit and certain partsof specialty retail like
automotive repair among others,and so it's a very, very
balanced portfolio of solutionsthat delivers great cash flow
(04:35):
for the company and deliverssome nice growth as well.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So maybe touch on the B2B payment side.
Now a little bit about whatthat business does.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Sure.
So most people would understandthe merchant business listening
with us today.
And the other part of ourpayments business is in.
Again, we call it B2B, but it'sreally around accounts,
receivables management and, to alesser degree, about payables.
So what the company has isabout eight different packages
of software that help a businessmanage again a mid-sized
(05:07):
business manage theirreceivables Everything from
managing a lockbox to doingremote deposit capture, to
managing exceptions and disputesand reconciliations and
archiving, and so thesedifferent modules historically
have been sold individually,like software where you buy the
(05:28):
package of software upfront fora big license fee and then you
pay annual maintenance.
And we're in the process oftransitioning to software as a
service, and so instead ofbuying each one of those
software packages independently,we've combined them together in
one great integrated note theword integrated package of
(05:48):
solutions to manage thereceivables on behalf of a
mid-sized business.
So today, if you are using ourSaaS business, you log in single
sign-on, you have access to allof the tools in our suite.
Even if you're only using oneof the tools in the suite, you
have the opportunity to accessand start using the others as
well.
All with single sign-on, with asingle user interface.
(06:11):
That's very consumer-friendly,great UI, ux and allows you to
manage and see what's happeningacross the landscape.
So part of that business also.
We run that software on behalfof many of our clients clients
where we actually host thesoftware on their behalf and
then often they will hire us tomanage the payment processing.
For example, in the lockboxoperation, when somebody writes
(06:33):
a check or writes a credit cardnumber and puts it in the mail,
somebody has to manage thatprocess beginning to end and
make sure that the moneyactually moves at night, which
we do, and that the money getsposted to the right place on the
general ledger.
We do all of that on a turnkeyoutsource basis, using the
software that people also canget as a software, as a service,
(06:54):
for their own use.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, and these payments businesses?
Are they mainly in the US ormore global?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So almost exclusively in the US.
That is our focus.
We think the market space ishuge here and we think we've got
a really meaningful share.
So between our merchantbusiness and our AR business,
like I think I said at the earlypart of the conversation, it's
about $3 trillion a year involume, which is nominally mid
single digits, 15 or so percentof the US GDP.
(07:28):
So again, this company that youthink of as this legacy check
printer has very quietly becomea material player in digital
payments.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Okay, and I don't want to lose sight of the data
part, because I know it'simportant as part of your
tagline and main messaging, atleast on your website.
So maybe touch on the data part.
Are you getting the data fromthe payments for the businesses
or where's that coming from?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
So this is another thing that most people don't
know.
That's inside of Deluxe, but wehave a material business where
we aggregate over 100 differentsources of data to build what we
believe if it's not the largest, one of the largest consumer
and small business marketingdatabases.
So we know virtually everythingabout you as a consumer or you
(08:15):
as a small business.
So if you had a change in lifemeaning that you got married,
you got divorced, you bought ahouse, sold a house, rented a
car, bought a car, leased a car,sold a car, you have a kid in
college, you have a kid indiapers, you have parents that
you are aging, parents thatyou're caring for, and so we
have all of this massive amountof data.
(08:35):
We have built very robust AItools that sit on top of that
data and allow us to identifyand build lead lists that
convert at a very, very highrate.
So for financial institutions orother organizations that have a
high lifetime value, meaningthat they're also going to spend
a lot of money to market wehelp them specifically identify
(08:57):
who to target.
Should they target Greg Myersfor a home equity line or a high
rewards credit card, or is hehas an auto lease that's about
to come due.
So should we start marketing tohim a new lease?
And we do that at scale.
Most of the major financialinstitutions in the us partner
with us to provide that solution.
A number of other verticals,everything from home security
(09:20):
and home automation to onlinehome goods retailers that are
trying to come to the physicalworld, property and casualty
insurers so anybody wherethere's a high lifetime value,
that it costs a lot to bringthat customer to your business.
We help those companies targetvery, very tightly down to an
individual on what product theyshould offer that would convert
(09:43):
at a high rate.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Okay, and what would you say?
Differentiates Deluxe from yourcompetitors out there?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
It's such a good question, and so what?
I would tell you that each ofour businesses there are some
differences.
So in the data-driven marketingbusiness that we just spoke
about, we have more data,broader data, and we have the
best AI tools in the industry sothat we have the highest
conversion rates of anyonetrying to direct market to a
(10:10):
customer.
In our B2B space, thereceivables business, we just
simply have more scale thananybody else, and so our
products have more features.
We have more products, and nowthat they're all coming together
in one integrated whole and anintegrated receivables way, we
have a robust UI UX.
(10:31):
So, unlike others that aretrying to put a UI UX over this
and try to connect to otherpeople's modules, we actually
have all the modules that aredoing a massive amount of what's
happening in the marketplace,and now we've put the great
wrapper and a UI UX over it allin one integrated way.
In our merchant processingbusiness, we have what we think
is one of the most robust andflexible platforms for a
(10:55):
business to build their businessupon, so we provide businesses
more flexibility to adjust whattheir market or product offering
is for the market.
We have great relationshipswith a number of FIs and a
number of ISVs and ISOs.
But a huge differentiator thata lot of people talk about we
(11:16):
actually can prove it is theability to provide great
customer service and support.
So there's an organizationcalled ATSI A-T-S-I that's more
or less the equivalent ofa JDPowers that you and I might be
familiar with from buying a caror other customer satisfaction
measures, and ATSI measures theeffectiveness of telesupport and
(11:38):
how a customer experiences abrand.
And we are, I think, for atleast the last decade, we have
been the top award winner forATSI in our merchant services
business.
So at a time when otherprocessors are de-emphasizing
service or trying to shunteverything to self-service, we
have plenty of self-service too,let's be clear.
(11:59):
But sometimes you actually needto talk to somebody.
Our service is best in classand we can prove it.
And when we bring people to ourFort Worth Service Center it's
unbelievably compelling.
So you combine the fact thatwe've got a great platform, a
great product and we have greatservice and we have great
relationships across theindustry.
(12:19):
We win, and we winsignificantly.
And since we've been in themerchant processing business
that we bought into in June of21, we've grown that business
successive quarters, especiallygreat in financial institutions
ISVs, isos which is really theheart and soul of that part of
our company's business.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Okay, great.
So when you step back and lookat the payments and fintech
industry as a whole, where doyou see it headed, say, in the
next three to five years?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Do you know what?
I think like everybody, maybenot everybody, but I
fundamentally believe thatwhat's going to happen is that
payments is going to become morefully integrated the popular
word is embedded but thatpayments are going to work like
the power company works, meaningthat it's always available, you
(13:08):
never think about.
You walk into a room and youflip the light switch and it's
dark and the light comes on.
You don't think about it, itjust happens.
And I think that payments aregoing to become the same and the
degree to which businesses canintegrate their offerings so you
make it easy for a business toaccept payments from any source,
anytime anywhere, or makepayments similarly anytime
(13:31):
anywhere to anyone, and do thatin a very integrated,
streamlined way.
I think that is the future ofpayments where it becomes more
deeply embedded, more deeplyintegrated.
Where it becomes more deeplyembedded, more deeply integrated
, and the point of competitionis going to be how well
(13:52):
integrated you are and how welland easily you can embed so that
you can deliver a service thatis just omnipresent, it's just
there and it just works all thetime, and if you're the business
owner, it's easy to manage afull view of your cash and your
payment flow.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Okay, and you mentioned AI earlier, so I
obviously have to haven't done apodcast in the last year
without talking about AI, andI'm sure you're using it in your
business.
But there's also a lot of buzz,especially recently, MasterCard
and Visa both making some AIannouncements.
So what's your view on how notthe operational side of your
business, but more how you seeit play holistically in the
(14:33):
industry?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I think that AI obviously is the hottest thing
of the moment, but I don't thinkthat AI is just of the moment.
I think this is atransformative time in our
society and for business,because AI is going to make a
routine out of low value workthat is happening sometimes in a
(14:58):
very manual way.
So I don't think AI by itselffor our industry, ai as an
independent thing, is what'sgoing to be impactful for our
industry.
But how people take AI toolsand apply them to payment
industry challenges is going totransform our industry, and I'll
just give you a few examples ofhow we're already applying AI.
(15:20):
So we're managing billions oftransactions every day for
consumers or businesses makingpayments, mailing a payment and
phoning a payment and et cetera.
But often you'll receive apayment but you don't have the
payment advice.
So you don't know what this$1,000 check is supposed to do.
What is it supposed to beapplied to in the general ledger
(15:41):
?
And if you have billions oftransactions, any percentage,
any tiny percentage that doesn'treconcile, is a huge burden and
cost on the system.
So we are applying AI tools andwe believe that we have
best-in-class AI tools thatallow payments to be matched.
We call it the matching process, of matching a payment actually
(16:06):
to an invoice or to where itshould be applied on the general
ledger.
And we're doing that already atmassive scale and we're doing
that in our lockbox operation.
But we're also using AI to workon fraud reduction and we're
using AI in our data business tohelp identify the next
customers.
And what's so powerful about itright is that because we're
(16:29):
using generative AI, it getsbetter and smarter every time.
Maybe the simplest way forpeople to get the scale is that
when in our data business supersimple.
I know this is a paymentpodcast, but this will be a
really simple way to think aboutthis.
In our business we are runningthe largest bank in the country.
(16:51):
We think is probably runningnominally 400 campaigns
marketing campaigns a year wherethey're trying to target people
campaigns marketing campaigns ayear where they're trying to
target people.
Our business, because we haveso many customers, is running 4
000 of them a year.
So you do that for a number ofyears.
You have exponentialimprovements in conversion of a
(17:13):
lead to a customer because youjust get so much smarter, so
much faster, and that is theadvantage of the scale that
Deluxe has.
It'd be very hard for others toreplicate, because in this case
we're doing 4,000 a year versusone bank doing 400 and smaller
banks doing many fewer than that.
The gap between the conversionrates that we can deliver
(17:34):
rapidly expands.
It'd be very, very hard for anyindividual entity to keep up
with that.
That is the power of AI.
The same is true for ourmatching software and our
matching AI tools in the B2Bspace.
It is about exponentialincrease and improvement, and
those that have scale and arealready moving are going to have
(17:54):
perhaps a long-term structuraladvantage, and clearly that's
where we're aiming for Deluxe.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Great Well, let's switch gears a little bit and
talk about you, and youmentioned a little bit about the
start of your career, gettinginto FinTech at Wells Fargo, so
maybe walk us through that pointin time to where you are today
and why you're at Deluxe.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Sure, so I spent about 12 years at P&G and we
talked about my hair care days.
I so I spent about 12 years atP&G and we talked about my hair
care days.
I got a phone call from aheadhunter about this bank on
the West Coast, wells Fargo.
It had not expanded nationally,this was a West Coast bank at
the time and they had done thisgreat job of moving customers
out of the teller line to thisnew thing called an ATM.
(18:34):
And they had done a great jobof moving people out of the
teller line.
But they kind of messed uptheir customer relationship the
ability to have a conversationwith the customer, deliver more
product, to find a consumerproduct, consumer marketing guy,
a brand guy, to come and helpthem reposition that
(19:05):
distribution channel forconsumers to make it a consumer
preferred device and experience.
That's exactly why I went toWells Fargo Left P&G.
They're looking for a consumerguy who's a consumer guy.
They wanted to transform theircustomer experience and make it
much more user-friendly and wewere the first bank to deliver
web-connected,internet-connected,
(19:27):
cloud-connected today that'swhat we would call it
cloud-connected ATMs and theexperience that you would have
at a Wells Fargo ATM today wherethere's full motion video, a
variety of features, all thebanking transactions that you
can do there.
We did even novel things likeselling postage stamps and
selling discounted ski ticketsand making specific offers to
(19:49):
you that were targeting to youon the screen.
That's the work that I did atWells Fargo and that was just
about the peak of the internetcraze.
I moved to San Francisco and Ihad entrepreneurs through my
office all the time and one ofthem said, hey, I just took a
company public, but I thinkthere's another company inside
my company that we think you'rethe guy to come and lead and to
(20:11):
break it out of our company.
And I co-founded a companycalled MagnaCash, which was a
micro payments company, doesexactly what itunes checkout
does today aggregating many onedollar transactions.
Instead of 10 one dollartransactions, do one ten dollar
transaction, because we all knowthat it's a cheaper way to
(20:33):
manage the transactions thatflow.
And we were the first ones inthe market.
We had usa today, all thegannett media properties, a
number of other properties thatwere using our payment tool, and
I sold that company to anothercompany that ended up getting
sold to Digital River, andthat's how I became a Silicon
Valley entrepreneur and starteda micropayments company.
(20:54):
Now we were a little bit earlybecause if it had been a little
later we would have made evenmore money for shareholders, but
we did pretty darn well gettingbusiness off the floor and
flying and get it sold.
So after that was done, I wasrecruited to run the VeriSign
internet payment businesses andVeriSign, which is still out
there today important company,does the little lock in the
(21:17):
bottom corner of your screenwhich is the SSL certificate
that provides security.
And so VeriSign had bought allthese different payment assets
to start getting credit cards tobe accepted online.
All of them were losing money,all of them had fraud problems.
They hired me as a payments guyto come in, integrate them, put
them together in a meaningfulway, reduce the fraud losses and
(21:38):
grow the business.
And we put that together.
The brand name is calledPayflow Pro, got those
businesses all put together.
It got it profitable.
Ultimately, that business getsbought by PayPal and it still
runs inside of PayPal as theirgateway for credit card and
debit card payments.
So if you're a business and youwant to use a, you need a
gateway.
(21:59):
The Payflow Pro Gateway, now byPayPal, is still operating
today, largely as designed thatthe team designed back in the
day.
Of course it's been modernizedbut largely designed as it was
back then Spent a short timeafter that in private equity
helping a couple of companiesget healthy one around parking,
(22:19):
another one in healthcare thehealthcare business I became the
chair.
That company got purchased byHenry Schein, a giant medical
supply company, and then I got acall from this company called
First Data, and First Data foreverybody that maybe isn't
familiar was at the time thelargest payment processor.
Subsequently, of course, mergedwith Fiserv and now is part of
(22:41):
the behemoth of Fiserv and I ranvirtually every part of that
company's business.
I started in the productorganization and merchant.
I ended up along the wayrunning the entire card issuing
business.
I ran the businesses in Asia,in Europe, in the US.
I have responsibility for thethree joint ventures in merchant
processing B of A Wells FargoPNC, and in the last role I had
(23:06):
something called network andsecurity solutions, which were
all of the supporting features,functions, everything from a
prepaid card, prepaid debitcards, prepaid open loop cards,
a star debit network.
There was a variety of things.
All that were incrediblyprofitable and an important part
of the product mix at FirstData.
(23:28):
And then I got this call aboutDeluxe and honestly, greg, I
have to tell you when theheadhunter called me and said,
hey, this company, deluxe islooking for a new CEO and we
think you're actually a reallygood candidate, honestly I kind
of laughed and I said I don'tthink you understand.
I spent the last 14 years of mylife trying to get rid of
(23:48):
checks.
I'm running the third largestdebit network in the country,
running a card issuing businesswhy are you calling me about a
check printing company?
And they said you really needto go in there and look at the
assets that are there and maybeyou're going to change your mind
if you have a big enough visionfor what can be.
(24:10):
And what I saw was thisincredible company.
At the time it was about 105years old plus or minus and it
had 4,000 financial institutioncustomers with master service
agreements.
It had 4 million small businesscustomers.
It was serving hundreds of theworld's leading brands and at
(24:33):
the time I thought it really wasa sales and marketing challenge
to really get the companymoving in the right direction
Along the way.
Before I got here, they'd made52 different acquisitions,
hadn't really integrated any ofthem.
Very disparate set of things.
There was a web hosting companybought in Australia.
There was a logo design companyin the UK.
(24:55):
There's a payroll processingcompany in Canada.
There was a search optimizationcompany in the UK.
There's a payroll processingcompany in Canada.
There was a search optimizationcompany in Southern California.
There was this wide range ofthings that maybe didn't all fit
together, and so wefundamentally changed the
strategy to get very, veryfocused on what is the company's
legacy, the company's history.
(25:16):
Where do we have the right towin?
And where we have the right towin is in payments and data.
That's the company's history.
As a check printer, we were theoriginal non-cash payments
company.
That's what our founder built.
Now we understand we have allmoved well past checks.
We're still happy to printchecks, but that was the legacy.
That was how we have built trustwith all of these millions of
(25:38):
small businesses, millions ofindividual consumers, thousands
of banks, and so our job was totake that strength and that
legacy and point it morespecifically towards payments
and data.
So we exited all of those otherbusinesses and we got down to
the footprint that we have today.
We exited dozens of them, wesold them, got down to the
(25:59):
footprint that we have today.
We actually did dozens of them.
We sold them, we got down tothe four-legged stool that we
have today, which is merchantservices, b2b payments, data
driven marketing and, of course,our legacy print businesses.
So it is a fundamentallydifferent business than people
may have known long ago,certainly different business
than they would have known fiveor 10 years ago, and what we are
today is a payments and datacompany that has a really nice
(26:22):
print business on the side thatgenerates a lot of cash that
we're investing to grow thedigital payments and data
company.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
So when you looked at all these assets to come on
board, was it sort of a nobrainer that, hey, there's
something there something there.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I don't know there was a no-brainer, but I really
fundamentally believed that withthat distribution footprint,
the trust master serviceagreements help a lot, that if
you can get the story refinedand targeted and to make sense
to everyday bankers, everydayconsumers, we had a real shot.
And I've been a person alwaysthrough my whole career is run
(27:00):
to the fire.
I really love to go and work onthings where you can make a
meaningful change.
I've never been somebody thatlikes to sit in the back and
just kind of make marginal Icall it dial twisting, marginal
twists on the side.
I want to take and make boldsteps and that's the journey
we've been on at deluxe and it'sbeen a ride.
I'm so proud of what our teamhas been able to accomplish.
(27:21):
I don't know that a lot ofpeople thought we could actually
do it, but here we are.
You know we have, we continueto increase the share of our
revenue that comes from ourpayments and data business and
very, very proud of that and Ithink our future is very, very
clear as a payments and datacompany.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well, that's a good segue, I think, into the next
question, because you talked alittle bit about kind of what
you enjoy doing.
So what are some of yourpassions?
So, maybe a work-relatedpassion and a personal passion.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Work-related.
I really fundamentally believein this idea of convergence,
integration, embedded whateverword you like to use but the
notion of making it simpler andstreamlined and deeply
integrated into just how theworld works.
(28:07):
I think that is the future andI have a lot of passion for that
, and you probably can hear inthe conversation I had about
what we're trying to do with ourespecially with our B2B
business around convergence andgetting everything together in a
single user interface, singlesign on.
I'm able to do everything inone place.
I'm a fundamental believer inthat.
I'm very, very passionate aboutthat from an industry
(28:29):
perspective, I think personally,I'll just give you one sort of
in the greater good of thecommunity, I'm very passionate
about education and financialliteracy.
I believe as people in ourindustry, we understand money
better than most anybody, and soif we can help people less
fortunate understand money aswell, they have an opportunity
(28:51):
to really improve their lot inlife.
And I think education issimilar.
So if we can help, especiallymiddle school to high school
kids really launch, give themfinancial literacy but also give
them broader education, wereally have an opportunity to
change lives and change thetrajectory of families.
So very, very passionate aboutthat.
Then, personally, the stuffthat I like to do is I really
(29:13):
like to snow ski and be out onthe water doing water sports
with our family.
Very proud of my family.
I've got a beautiful wife, 34years this year.
Puts up with me, continues toput up with me.
Amazing.
I have three adult children 22,24, and 26, all doing really
great in life and very, veryproud of them all.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Awesome, awesome.
Well, thanks for sharing that.
So if someone comes to you,barry, maybe they just graduated
from college and they'relooking at payments and FinTech
as an industry choice.
They want to build a career.
What kind of advice would yougive them to help them be more
successful?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
The first thing I would tell them is you are in
the right place.
This is a secular, growingindustry.
It is indispensable.
There are lots of other coolfun stuff you can go do, but if
you want to be standing in theintersection where commerce
happens, we are the intersection.
The intersection goes throughfintech and payments and we
represent the future of commerce, so you're in the right place.
(30:09):
First of all, congratulationson the right place.
Second thing I would tell you isfind a role where you have
measurable impact in ourindustry Meaning.
I want to be able to say,before I came on the job, the
number of new merchants we wereboarding was X.
After I left that role, it wasY.
Or fraud losses were X and theywent to Y.
(30:30):
Or our exceptions had to manageX.
We reduced it to Y, so thatyou're able to, within every
role, look back and say I canmeasure the contribution that I
made.
That'll be a hugedifferentiator.
Especially for young peopleclimbing the ladder.
It's incredibly important to beable to say what you actually
accomplished.
Not in fluffy nice, I did thisnice thing like measure it.
(30:54):
That'll be a hugedifferentiator because most
people are going to show up andsay they did these nice fluffy
things you want to be able tosay this is what I specifically
delivered.
The second thing is alwaysdeliver way more than is
expected.
I think young people often tryto aim at what's the minimum
threshold to meet theprerequisite, and that's not how
(31:15):
people get promoted.
Real life is not like college,where if I just get a passing
grade in this class, I pass 101,now I can go to 201, and then I
can go to 301, and then I get adiploma.
Careers aren't like that.
People don't just pass from 101with a passing grade to 201.
They have to be the best atthat to be selected, to be
(31:37):
considered, to be considered, tobe selected for the next role.
So always over deliver.
So if somebody says, get thisto me by Friday, deliver it on
Thursday.
If they say I need this, I need10 of these, deliver 12.
Always prove that you candeliver more than the minimum
requirement.
Again, be hugely differentiating.
(31:57):
And the third thing I wouldtell you is I call it running to
the fire and the notion is goand find roles where there's
real change that needs to happen.
Don't try to take the easy path.
The simple thing Go someplaceand choose roles where you can
drive change and really have animpact.
(32:20):
It makes your life moreinteresting, it makes your
career more interesting and itgives you a chance at a rocket
ship, because you've proven thatyou can take on a hard task
maybe a task that other peopledon't want to do and then
execute on it.
And so if you do those threethings, I think you've got a
huge opportunity to have arunaway career and have a lot of
fun along the way.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Okay, yeah, I think that's great advice.
Thanks for sharing that.
So before we wrap up, we'veobviously covered about Deluxe
and the company, about you, yourstory, a little about the
industry.
Is there anything else youwanted to talk about before we
wrap up?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Do you know what?
I would just tie it all backtogether to this notion of being
really choiceful about whereyou choose, as a industry
professional, to invest yourtime.
Don't just choose all the safe,easy stuff that's a really
crowded space.
Find places called the notionof run of the fire.
Find places that needtransformation.
(33:15):
Find opportunities where youcan have massive impact.
It's what I've done in everystep of my career.
Every step of my career, I madethose choices to choose things
where we could make a differencerather than just modify and
adjust.
I think that leads to a happylife.
I think it leads to a reallyenriched life and leads to great
career progress.
So what brought me to Deluxe?
I think that's why so many ofthe top talent in the industry
(33:38):
are coming to join us at Deluxeand all the leadership roles and
at the board level because theywant to be part of this.
They want to be part ofsomething bold and
transformational and change, andthere's lots of places you can
do all the other slower stuff.
Choose stuff and find a placeto go.
Do something bold and great.
It's worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Well, Barry, thank you so much for being on the
show today.
I know your time is veryvaluable.
So again, thank you so much,especially being here on the
400th episode.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I certainly appreciate it.
It's a great honor, great to bewith you.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks, greg.
Okay, and to all your listenersout there, I thank you for your
time as well, and until thenext story.
Thank you for joining us thisweek on the Leaders in Payments
podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello and welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andthis is episode 400 of our show,
so it's a milestone that I'mvery proud of and one that I
want to thank my listeners foralways listening the input that
I've had.
I really appreciate that.
So, to commemorate the 400thepisode, I wanted to have on a
special guest.
So joining me today is BarryMcCarthy, the president and CEO
(00:41):
of Deluxe.
So, Barry, thank you so muchfor being here and welcome to
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, Greg, thanks for having me.
It's quite an honor to be hereon the 400th episode.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Absolutely.
So let's go ahead and dive in,if you don't mind.
Tell our audience a little bitabout yourself, maybe where you
grew up, where you went toschool, where you currently live
, a few things like that.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Sure.
So I grew up outside of ChicagoIllinois, up outside of Chicago
Illinois, Went to theUniversity of Illinois as an
undergrad, I went toNorthwestern Kellogg for
business school and afterundergrad I started my career at
Procter and Gamble, and one ofthe things that people always
seem to find humorous is that Iwas the top shampoo salesman
(01:19):
during my time at P&G.
I climbed the ranks fromcalling on grocery stores on up
to having brand and productmanagement and marketing and
customer managementresponsibility at P&G and made
my first jump into FinTech andpayments when I joined Wells
Fargo.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And we'll jump back into a little bit more of your
career in a few minutes.
But let's talk about thecompany Deluxe.
I love the banner behind you.
Tell our audience, like mostpeople are going to know, the
name.
Deluxe has a great brand nameand some people might remember
it from the check printing daysand obviously you've
transitioned that business quitea bit.
But maybe tell us what Deluxedoes in kind of the markets that
you're in today.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Sure, greg, I think Deluxe may be one of those
companies that, if you knew itfive or ten years ago, it's a
very, very different companytoday than what it was five or
10 years ago and certainly, ifyou have a memory longer than
that, it's a very, verydifferent company.
And so today the company reallyhas transformed itself into
becoming a payments and datacompany, and the company
(02:18):
operates four businesses.
We have a merchant processingbusiness that we acquired in
June of 2021.
We have a B2B payments businesswhere we manage accounts,
receivables and account payableand digitize those transactions.
And we have a data-drivenmarketing business where we help
businesses target market tofind their next customer.
(02:39):
And, of course, our fourthbusiness is the legacy business
that most people are familiarwith, which is check printing
and printing of forms and otherthings like that.
The revenue is pretty balancednow between the legacy print
businesses and our payments anddata businesses, but it's been a
long time since the check partof our company was the biggest
source of revenue and very proudof that transformation.
(03:00):
In aggregate, the companyprocesses around $3 trillion a
year in payments volume acrossour merchant business and our
digital, ar and AP businesses.
I'm very, very excited aboutthe future for the company.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Okay, and on the merchant services side, since
this is obviously a payment show, we'll talk more about that,
but is it focused on smallbusiness or do you have
solutions across the board?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So where we really compete is in the very big and
profitable middle market.
So there's the guys at the topof the market, the giants I
worked for one of them for manyyears 14 years and then there's
the guys that are really focusedmore on micro merchants and
increasingly people are movingtowards that middle market space
.
But we really target businessesthat have significant ongoing
(03:48):
volume.
So the art fair or craft fairon Saturday is not really our
target market, although wecertainly have customers there,
and we certainly don't have aWalmart or a Target at the other
end.
But businesses that havemillions to hundreds of millions
of dollars of revenue orbillions of dollars of revenue
are our customers and wedistribute through multiple
(04:11):
channels.
Of course we serve integratedsoftware vendors and ISOs.
We have a significant bankchannel that's leveraging the
strength of the company'shistory.
We have a nice business instate and local government,
not-for-profit and certain partsof specialty retail like
automotive repair among others,and so it's a very, very
balanced portfolio of solutionsthat delivers great cash flow
(04:35):
for the company and deliverssome nice growth as well.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So maybe touch on the B2B payment side.
Now a little bit about whatthat business does.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Sure.
So most people would understandthe merchant business listening
with us today.
And the other part of ourpayments business is in.
Again, we call it B2B, but it'sreally around accounts,
receivables management and, to alesser degree, about payables.
So what the company has isabout eight different packages
of software that help a businessmanage again a mid-sized
(05:07):
business manage theirreceivables Everything from
managing a lockbox to doingremote deposit capture, to
managing exceptions and disputesand reconciliations and
archiving, and so thesedifferent modules historically
have been sold individually,like software where you buy the
(05:28):
package of software upfront fora big license fee and then you
pay annual maintenance.
And we're in the process oftransitioning to software as a
service, and so instead ofbuying each one of those
software packages independently,we've combined them together in
one great integrated note theword integrated package of
(05:48):
solutions to manage thereceivables on behalf of a
mid-sized business.
So today, if you are using ourSaaS business, you log in single
sign-on, you have access to allof the tools in our suite.
Even if you're only using oneof the tools in the suite, you
have the opportunity to accessand start using the others as
well.
All with single sign-on, with asingle user interface.
(06:11):
That's very consumer-friendly,great UI, ux and allows you to
manage and see what's happeningacross the landscape.
So part of that business also.
We run that software on behalfof many of our clients clients
where we actually host thesoftware on their behalf and
then often they will hire us tomanage the payment processing.
For example, in the lockboxoperation, when somebody writes
(06:33):
a check or writes a credit cardnumber and puts it in the mail,
somebody has to manage thatprocess beginning to end and
make sure that the moneyactually moves at night, which
we do, and that the money getsposted to the right place on the
general ledger.
We do all of that on a turnkeyoutsource basis, using the
software that people also canget as a software, as a service,
(06:54):
for their own use.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, and these payments businesses?
Are they mainly in the US ormore global?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So almost exclusively in the US.
That is our focus.
We think the market space ishuge here and we think we've got
a really meaningful share.
So between our merchantbusiness and our AR business,
like I think I said at the earlypart of the conversation, it's
about $3 trillion a year involume, which is nominally mid
single digits, 15 or so percentof the US GDP.
(07:28):
So again, this company that youthink of as this legacy check
printer has very quietly becomea material player in digital
payments.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Okay, and I don't want to lose sight of the data
part, because I know it'simportant as part of your
tagline and main messaging, atleast on your website.
So maybe touch on the data part.
Are you getting the data fromthe payments for the businesses
or where's that coming from?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
So this is another thing that most people don't
know.
That's inside of Deluxe, but wehave a material business where
we aggregate over 100 differentsources of data to build what we
believe if it's not the largest, one of the largest consumer
and small business marketingdatabases.
So we know virtually everythingabout you as a consumer or you
(08:15):
as a small business.
So if you had a change in lifemeaning that you got married,
you got divorced, you bought ahouse, sold a house, rented a
car, bought a car, leased a car,sold a car, you have a kid in
college, you have a kid indiapers, you have parents that
you are aging, parents thatyou're caring for, and so we
have all of this massive amountof data.
(08:35):
We have built very robust AItools that sit on top of that
data and allow us to identifyand build lead lists that
convert at a very, very highrate.
So for financial institutions orother organizations that have a
high lifetime value, meaningthat they're also going to spend
a lot of money to market wehelp them specifically identify
(08:57):
who to target.
Should they target Greg Myersfor a home equity line or a high
rewards credit card, or is hehas an auto lease that's about
to come due.
So should we start marketing tohim a new lease?
And we do that at scale.
Most of the major financialinstitutions in the us partner
with us to provide that solution.
A number of other verticals,everything from home security
(09:20):
and home automation to onlinehome goods retailers that are
trying to come to the physicalworld, property and casualty
insurers so anybody wherethere's a high lifetime value,
that it costs a lot to bringthat customer to your business.
We help those companies targetvery, very tightly down to an
individual on what product theyshould offer that would convert
(09:43):
at a high rate.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Okay, and what would you say?
Differentiates Deluxe from yourcompetitors out there?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
It's such a good question, and so what?
I would tell you that each ofour businesses there are some
differences.
So in the data-driven marketingbusiness that we just spoke
about, we have more data,broader data, and we have the
best AI tools in the industry sothat we have the highest
conversion rates of anyonetrying to direct market to a
(10:10):
customer.
In our B2B space, thereceivables business, we just
simply have more scale thananybody else, and so our
products have more features.
We have more products, and nowthat they're all coming together
in one integrated whole and anintegrated receivables way, we
have a robust UI UX.
(10:31):
So, unlike others that aretrying to put a UI UX over this
and try to connect to otherpeople's modules, we actually
have all the modules that aredoing a massive amount of what's
happening in the marketplace,and now we've put the great
wrapper and a UI UX over it allin one integrated way.
In our merchant processingbusiness, we have what we think
is one of the most robust andflexible platforms for a
(10:55):
business to build their businessupon, so we provide businesses
more flexibility to adjust whattheir market or product offering
is for the market.
We have great relationshipswith a number of FIs and a
number of ISVs and ISOs.
But a huge differentiator thata lot of people talk about we
(11:16):
actually can prove it is theability to provide great
customer service and support.
So there's an organizationcalled ATSI A-T-S-I that's more
or less the equivalent ofa JDPowers that you and I might be
familiar with from buying a caror other customer satisfaction
measures, and ATSI measures theeffectiveness of telesupport and
(11:38):
how a customer experiences abrand.
And we are, I think, for atleast the last decade, we have
been the top award winner forATSI in our merchant services
business.
So at a time when otherprocessors are de-emphasizing
service or trying to shunteverything to self-service, we
have plenty of self-service too,let's be clear.
(11:59):
But sometimes you actually needto talk to somebody.
Our service is best in classand we can prove it.
And when we bring people to ourFort Worth Service Center it's
unbelievably compelling.
So you combine the fact thatwe've got a great platform, a
great product and we have greatservice and we have great
relationships across theindustry.
(12:19):
We win, and we winsignificantly.
And since we've been in themerchant processing business
that we bought into in June of21, we've grown that business
successive quarters, especiallygreat in financial institutions
ISVs, isos which is really theheart and soul of that part of
our company's business.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Okay, great.
So when you step back and lookat the payments and fintech
industry as a whole, where doyou see it headed, say, in the
next three to five years?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Do you know what?
I think like everybody, maybenot everybody, but I
fundamentally believe thatwhat's going to happen is that
payments is going to become morefully integrated the popular
word is embedded but thatpayments are going to work like
the power company works, meaningthat it's always available, you
(13:08):
never think about.
You walk into a room and youflip the light switch and it's
dark and the light comes on.
You don't think about it, itjust happens.
And I think that payments aregoing to become the same and the
degree to which businesses canintegrate their offerings so you
make it easy for a business toaccept payments from any source,
anytime anywhere, or makepayments similarly anytime
(13:31):
anywhere to anyone, and do thatin a very integrated,
streamlined way.
I think that is the future ofpayments where it becomes more
deeply embedded, more deeplyintegrated.
Where it becomes more deeplyembedded, more deeply integrated
, and the point of competitionis going to be how well
(13:52):
integrated you are and how welland easily you can embed so that
you can deliver a service thatis just omnipresent, it's just
there and it just works all thetime, and if you're the business
owner, it's easy to manage afull view of your cash and your
payment flow.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Okay, and you mentioned AI earlier, so I
obviously have to haven't done apodcast in the last year
without talking about AI, andI'm sure you're using it in your
business.
But there's also a lot of buzz,especially recently, MasterCard
and Visa both making some AIannouncements.
So what's your view on how notthe operational side of your
business, but more how you seeit play holistically in the
(14:33):
industry?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I think that AI obviously is the hottest thing
of the moment, but I don't thinkthat AI is just of the moment.
I think this is atransformative time in our
society and for business,because AI is going to make a
routine out of low value workthat is happening sometimes in a
(14:58):
very manual way.
So I don't think AI by itselffor our industry, ai as an
independent thing, is what'sgoing to be impactful for our
industry.
But how people take AI toolsand apply them to payment
industry challenges is going totransform our industry, and I'll
just give you a few examples ofhow we're already applying AI.
(15:20):
So we're managing billions oftransactions every day for
consumers or businesses makingpayments, mailing a payment and
phoning a payment and et cetera.
But often you'll receive apayment but you don't have the
payment advice.
So you don't know what this$1,000 check is supposed to do.
What is it supposed to beapplied to in the general ledger
(15:41):
?
And if you have billions oftransactions, any percentage,
any tiny percentage that doesn'treconcile, is a huge burden and
cost on the system.
So we are applying AI tools andwe believe that we have
best-in-class AI tools thatallow payments to be matched.
We call it the matching process, of matching a payment actually
(16:06):
to an invoice or to where itshould be applied on the general
ledger.
And we're doing that already atmassive scale and we're doing
that in our lockbox operation.
But we're also using AI to workon fraud reduction and we're
using AI in our data business tohelp identify the next
customers.
And what's so powerful about itright is that because we're
(16:29):
using generative AI, it getsbetter and smarter every time.
Maybe the simplest way forpeople to get the scale is that
when in our data business supersimple.
I know this is a paymentpodcast, but this will be a
really simple way to think aboutthis.
In our business we are runningthe largest bank in the country.
(16:51):
We think is probably runningnominally 400 campaigns
marketing campaigns a year wherethey're trying to target people
campaigns marketing campaigns ayear where they're trying to
target people.
Our business, because we haveso many customers, is running 4
000 of them a year.
So you do that for a number ofyears.
You have exponentialimprovements in conversion of a
(17:13):
lead to a customer because youjust get so much smarter, so
much faster, and that is theadvantage of the scale that
Deluxe has.
It'd be very hard for others toreplicate, because in this case
we're doing 4,000 a year versusone bank doing 400 and smaller
banks doing many fewer than that.
The gap between the conversionrates that we can deliver
(17:34):
rapidly expands.
It'd be very, very hard for anyindividual entity to keep up
with that.
That is the power of AI.
The same is true for ourmatching software and our
matching AI tools in the B2Bspace.
It is about exponentialincrease and improvement, and
those that have scale and arealready moving are going to have
(17:54):
perhaps a long-term structuraladvantage, and clearly that's
where we're aiming for Deluxe.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Great Well, let's switch gears a little bit and
talk about you, and youmentioned a little bit about the
start of your career, gettinginto FinTech at Wells Fargo, so
maybe walk us through that pointin time to where you are today
and why you're at Deluxe.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Sure, so I spent about 12 years at P&G and we
talked about my hair care days.
I so I spent about 12 years atP&G and we talked about my hair
care days.
I got a phone call from aheadhunter about this bank on
the West Coast, wells Fargo.
It had not expanded nationally,this was a West Coast bank at
the time and they had done thisgreat job of moving customers
out of the teller line to thisnew thing called an ATM.
(18:34):
And they had done a great jobof moving people out of the
teller line.
But they kind of messed uptheir customer relationship the
ability to have a conversationwith the customer, deliver more
product, to find a consumerproduct, consumer marketing guy,
a brand guy, to come and helpthem reposition that
(19:05):
distribution channel forconsumers to make it a consumer
preferred device and experience.
That's exactly why I went toWells Fargo Left P&G.
They're looking for a consumerguy who's a consumer guy.
They wanted to transform theircustomer experience and make it
much more user-friendly and wewere the first bank to deliver
web-connected,internet-connected,
(19:27):
cloud-connected today that'swhat we would call it
cloud-connected ATMs and theexperience that you would have
at a Wells Fargo ATM today wherethere's full motion video, a
variety of features, all thebanking transactions that you
can do there.
We did even novel things likeselling postage stamps and
selling discounted ski ticketsand making specific offers to
(19:49):
you that were targeting to youon the screen.
That's the work that I did atWells Fargo and that was just
about the peak of the internetcraze.
I moved to San Francisco and Ihad entrepreneurs through my
office all the time and one ofthem said, hey, I just took a
company public, but I thinkthere's another company inside
my company that we think you'rethe guy to come and lead and to
(20:11):
break it out of our company.
And I co-founded a companycalled MagnaCash, which was a
micro payments company, doesexactly what itunes checkout
does today aggregating many onedollar transactions.
Instead of 10 one dollartransactions, do one ten dollar
transaction, because we all knowthat it's a cheaper way to
(20:33):
manage the transactions thatflow.
And we were the first ones inthe market.
We had usa today, all thegannett media properties, a
number of other properties thatwere using our payment tool, and
I sold that company to anothercompany that ended up getting
sold to Digital River, andthat's how I became a Silicon
Valley entrepreneur and starteda micropayments company.
(20:54):
Now we were a little bit earlybecause if it had been a little
later we would have made evenmore money for shareholders, but
we did pretty darn well gettingbusiness off the floor and
flying and get it sold.
So after that was done, I wasrecruited to run the VeriSign
internet payment businesses andVeriSign, which is still out
there today important company,does the little lock in the
(21:17):
bottom corner of your screenwhich is the SSL certificate
that provides security.
And so VeriSign had bought allthese different payment assets
to start getting credit cards tobe accepted online.
All of them were losing money,all of them had fraud problems.
They hired me as a payments guyto come in, integrate them, put
them together in a meaningfulway, reduce the fraud losses and
(21:38):
grow the business.
And we put that together.
The brand name is calledPayflow Pro, got those
businesses all put together.
It got it profitable.
Ultimately, that business getsbought by PayPal and it still
runs inside of PayPal as theirgateway for credit card and
debit card payments.
So if you're a business and youwant to use a, you need a
gateway.
(21:59):
The Payflow Pro Gateway, now byPayPal, is still operating
today, largely as designed thatthe team designed back in the
day.
Of course it's been modernizedbut largely designed as it was
back then Spent a short timeafter that in private equity
helping a couple of companiesget healthy one around parking,
(22:19):
another one in healthcare thehealthcare business I became the
chair.
That company got purchased byHenry Schein, a giant medical
supply company, and then I got acall from this company called
First Data, and First Data foreverybody that maybe isn't
familiar was at the time thelargest payment processor.
Subsequently, of course, mergedwith Fiserv and now is part of
(22:41):
the behemoth of Fiserv and I ranvirtually every part of that
company's business.
I started in the productorganization and merchant.
I ended up along the wayrunning the entire card issuing
business.
I ran the businesses in Asia,in Europe, in the US.
I have responsibility for thethree joint ventures in merchant
processing B of A Wells FargoPNC, and in the last role I had
(23:06):
something called network andsecurity solutions, which were
all of the supporting features,functions, everything from a
prepaid card, prepaid debitcards, prepaid open loop cards,
a star debit network.
There was a variety of things.
All that were incrediblyprofitable and an important part
of the product mix at FirstData.
(23:28):
And then I got this call aboutDeluxe and honestly, greg, I
have to tell you when theheadhunter called me and said,
hey, this company, deluxe islooking for a new CEO and we
think you're actually a reallygood candidate, honestly I kind
of laughed and I said I don'tthink you understand.
I spent the last 14 years of mylife trying to get rid of
(23:48):
checks.
I'm running the third largestdebit network in the country,
running a card issuing businesswhy are you calling me about a
check printing company?
And they said you really needto go in there and look at the
assets that are there and maybeyou're going to change your mind
if you have a big enough visionfor what can be.
(24:10):
And what I saw was thisincredible company.
At the time it was about 105years old plus or minus and it
had 4,000 financial institutioncustomers with master service
agreements.
It had 4 million small businesscustomers.
It was serving hundreds of theworld's leading brands and at
(24:33):
the time I thought it really wasa sales and marketing challenge
to really get the companymoving in the right direction
Along the way.
Before I got here, they'd made52 different acquisitions,
hadn't really integrated any ofthem.
Very disparate set of things.
There was a web hosting companybought in Australia.
There was a logo design companyin the UK.
(24:55):
There's a payroll processingcompany in Canada.
There was a search optimizationcompany in the UK.
There's a payroll processingcompany in Canada.
There was a search optimizationcompany in Southern California.
There was this wide range ofthings that maybe didn't all fit
together, and so wefundamentally changed the
strategy to get very, veryfocused on what is the company's
legacy, the company's history.
(25:16):
Where do we have the right towin?
And where we have the right towin is in payments and data.
That's the company's history.
As a check printer, we were theoriginal non-cash payments
company.
That's what our founder built.
Now we understand we have allmoved well past checks.
We're still happy to printchecks, but that was the legacy.
That was how we have built trustwith all of these millions of
(25:38):
small businesses, millions ofindividual consumers, thousands
of banks, and so our job was totake that strength and that
legacy and point it morespecifically towards payments
and data.
So we exited all of those otherbusinesses and we got down to
the footprint that we have today.
We exited dozens of them, wesold them, got down to the
(25:59):
footprint that we have today.
We actually did dozens of them.
We sold them, we got down tothe four-legged stool that we
have today, which is merchantservices, b2b payments, data
driven marketing and, of course,our legacy print businesses.
So it is a fundamentallydifferent business than people
may have known long ago,certainly different business
than they would have known fiveor 10 years ago, and what we are
today is a payments and datacompany that has a really nice
(26:22):
print business on the side thatgenerates a lot of cash that
we're investing to grow thedigital payments and data
company.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
So when you looked at all these assets to come on
board, was it sort of a nobrainer that, hey, there's
something there something there.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I don't know there was a no-brainer, but I really
fundamentally believed that withthat distribution footprint,
the trust master serviceagreements help a lot, that if
you can get the story refinedand targeted and to make sense
to everyday bankers, everydayconsumers, we had a real shot.
And I've been a person alwaysthrough my whole career is run
(27:00):
to the fire.
I really love to go and work onthings where you can make a
meaningful change.
I've never been somebody thatlikes to sit in the back and
just kind of make marginal Icall it dial twisting, marginal
twists on the side.
I want to take and make boldsteps and that's the journey
we've been on at deluxe and it'sbeen a ride.
I'm so proud of what our teamhas been able to accomplish.
(27:21):
I don't know that a lot ofpeople thought we could actually
do it, but here we are.
You know we have, we continueto increase the share of our
revenue that comes from ourpayments and data business and
very, very proud of that and Ithink our future is very, very
clear as a payments and datacompany.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well, that's a good segue, I think, into the next
question, because you talked alittle bit about kind of what
you enjoy doing.
So what are some of yourpassions?
So, maybe a work-relatedpassion and a personal passion.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Work-related.
I really fundamentally believein this idea of convergence,
integration, embedded whateverword you like to use but the
notion of making it simpler andstreamlined and deeply
integrated into just how theworld works.
(28:07):
I think that is the future andI have a lot of passion for that
, and you probably can hear inthe conversation I had about
what we're trying to do with ourespecially with our B2B
business around convergence andgetting everything together in a
single user interface, singlesign on.
I'm able to do everything inone place.
I'm a fundamental believer inthat.
I'm very, very passionate aboutthat from an industry
(28:29):
perspective, I think personally,I'll just give you one sort of
in the greater good of thecommunity, I'm very passionate
about education and financialliteracy.
I believe as people in ourindustry, we understand money
better than most anybody, and soif we can help people less
fortunate understand money aswell, they have an opportunity
(28:51):
to really improve their lot inlife.
And I think education issimilar.
So if we can help, especiallymiddle school to high school
kids really launch, give themfinancial literacy but also give
them broader education, wereally have an opportunity to
change lives and change thetrajectory of families.
So very, very passionate aboutthat.
Then, personally, the stuffthat I like to do is I really
(29:13):
like to snow ski and be out onthe water doing water sports
with our family.
Very proud of my family.
I've got a beautiful wife, 34years this year.
Puts up with me, continues toput up with me.
Amazing.
I have three adult children 22,24, and 26, all doing really
great in life and very, veryproud of them all.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Awesome, awesome.
Well, thanks for sharing that.
So if someone comes to you,barry, maybe they just graduated
from college and they'relooking at payments and FinTech
as an industry choice.
They want to build a career.
What kind of advice would yougive them to help them be more
successful?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
The first thing I would tell them is you are in
the right place.
This is a secular, growingindustry.
It is indispensable.
There are lots of other coolfun stuff you can go do, but if
you want to be standing in theintersection where commerce
happens, we are the intersection.
The intersection goes throughfintech and payments and we
represent the future of commerce, so you're in the right place.
(30:09):
First of all, congratulationson the right place.
Second thing I would tell you isfind a role where you have
measurable impact in ourindustry Meaning.
I want to be able to say,before I came on the job, the
number of new merchants we wereboarding was X.
After I left that role, it wasY.
Or fraud losses were X and theywent to Y.
(30:30):
Or our exceptions had to manageX.
We reduced it to Y, so thatyou're able to, within every
role, look back and say I canmeasure the contribution that I
made.
That'll be a hugedifferentiator.
Especially for young peopleclimbing the ladder.
It's incredibly important to beable to say what you actually
accomplished.
Not in fluffy nice, I did thisnice thing like measure it.
(30:54):
That'll be a hugedifferentiator because most
people are going to show up andsay they did these nice fluffy
things you want to be able tosay this is what I specifically
delivered.
The second thing is alwaysdeliver way more than is
expected.
I think young people often tryto aim at what's the minimum
threshold to meet theprerequisite, and that's not how
(31:15):
people get promoted.
Real life is not like college,where if I just get a passing
grade in this class, I pass 101,now I can go to 201, and then I
can go to 301, and then I get adiploma.
Careers aren't like that.
People don't just pass from 101with a passing grade to 201.
They have to be the best atthat to be selected, to be
(31:37):
considered, to be considered, tobe selected for the next role.
So always over deliver.
So if somebody says, get thisto me by Friday, deliver it on
Thursday.
If they say I need this, I need10 of these, deliver 12.
Always prove that you candeliver more than the minimum
requirement.
Again, be hugely differentiating.
(31:57):
And the third thing I wouldtell you is I call it running to
the fire and the notion is goand find roles where there's
real change that needs to happen.
Don't try to take the easy path.
The simple thing Go someplaceand choose roles where you can
drive change and really have animpact.
(32:20):
It makes your life moreinteresting, it makes your
career more interesting and itgives you a chance at a rocket
ship, because you've proven thatyou can take on a hard task
maybe a task that other peopledon't want to do and then
execute on it.
And so if you do those threethings, I think you've got a
huge opportunity to have arunaway career and have a lot of
fun along the way.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Okay, yeah, I think that's great advice.
Thanks for sharing that.
So before we wrap up, we'veobviously covered about Deluxe
and the company, about you, yourstory, a little about the
industry.
Is there anything else youwanted to talk about before we
wrap up?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Do you know what?
I would just tie it all backtogether to this notion of being
really choiceful about whereyou choose, as a industry
professional, to invest yourtime.
Don't just choose all the safe,easy stuff that's a really
crowded space.
Find places called the notionof run of the fire.
Find places that needtransformation.
(33:15):
Find opportunities where youcan have massive impact.
It's what I've done in everystep of my career.
Every step of my career, I madethose choices to choose things
where we could make a differencerather than just modify and
adjust.
I think that leads to a happylife.
I think it leads to a reallyenriched life and leads to great
career progress.
So what brought me to Deluxe?
I think that's why so many ofthe top talent in the industry
(33:38):
are coming to join us at Deluxeand all the leadership roles and
at the board level because theywant to be part of this.
They want to be part ofsomething bold and
transformational and change, andthere's lots of places you can
do all the other slower stuff.
Choose stuff and find a placeto go.
Do something bold and great.
It's worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Well, Barry, thank you so much for being on the
show today.
I know your time is veryvaluable.
So again, thank you so much,especially being here on the
400th episode.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I certainly appreciate it.
It's a great honor, great to bewith you.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks, greg.
Okay, and to all your listenersout there, I thank you for your
time as well, and until thenext story.
Thank you for joining us thisweek on the Leaders in Payments
podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
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