May 7, 2025 • 22 mins
What happens when you combine identity verification with payment precision? That's the question Ben Turner set out to answer when he founded Verituity, a company transforming enterprise disbursements by focusing on verification at every step of the payment process.
Drawing from his experiences at Network Solutions in the early days of e-commerce, Turner recognized that payment fraud and errors stem from an identity problem. When businesses can't confidently verify who they're paying, millions of dollars are lost to mistakes and fraudsters.
Turner challenges conventional thinking about payment speed and modernization. While most conversations focus on real-time capabilities, he argues that what enterprises truly need is payment precision and cash optimization. "Real-time is more valuable often on the debit side than it is on the credit side," Turner explains, highlighting how businesses want to optimize when funds leave their accounts rather than simply accelerating all payments. This insight transforms digital disbursements from potential risk into strategic cash management tools.
Ready to transform your approach to enterprise disbursements? Discover how Verituity's verification-first model can eliminate payment errors, reduce fraud risk, and optimize your cash management. Connect with Verituity to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Greg Myers (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Meyers, andon today's show we have a very
special guest, ben Turner, theCEO and president of Verituity.
Ben has been on the show before, actually in May of 2022, so
about three years ago.
So, ben, welcome back to theshow.
Thanks, glad to be back,awesome.
Well, let's start out by havingyou tell our audience a little
(00:38):
bit about yourself.
Maybe where you're from, whereyou grew up, where you went to
school, maybe where youcurrently live, where you're
from where you grew up, whereyou went to school, maybe where
you currently live.
A few things like that, yeah,sure.
Ben Turner (00:45):
So I grew up in Southern Ohio coal country and
farm country and ended up goingto undergrad at Miami University
, moved to DC, lived in DC for acouple years, ended up moving
to Houston, worked in Houstonfor about a year and ended up
back in DC in my first job intechnology working for AT&T a
(01:06):
year and ended up back in DC inmy first job in technology
working for AT&T.
Went from there and was part ofa startup called Network
Solutions, where we were doingwe were one of the first early
e-commerce companies.
As a matter of fact, part ofthe reason I started Verituity
was we were being paid fordomain names and websites via
checks.
We were out how to go fromchecks to credit cards, which
was a massive undertakingbecause we at one point had one
(01:29):
of the world's largest accessdatabases as our billing system.
Oh wow.
Went from there, ended upgetting acquired by a company
called VeriSign that was reallyfocused on the security and
identity side, and that's whereI started to merge this concept
of payments and identity andthen fast forward.
Before I started this company,I helped launch a supply chain
(01:50):
analytics company whichhighlighted the risk in the
world of B2B payments and thechallenges that enterprises are
facing and that led me to launchVerituity, where we're all
about solving for businessestheir disbursement challenges,
whether it's to a consumer or toanother business.
Greg Myers (02:08):
Okay, well, let's dive into Verituity.
For those that maybe didn'tlisten to the last episode,
maybe give us the kind ofhigh-level overview of the
company.
Ben Turner (02:17):
Sure, sure.
So the core principle ofeverything we do at Verituity is
making sure that we're able toknow, verify and understand
every transaction.
We do that for a couple reasons.
One it allows us to make surethat we have the precision you
need in enterprise disbursementsto know that you're using the
right funding account, you'repaying the right payee, you're
(02:39):
paying the right payment accountand you're able to do
reconciliation in near real time.
The second core principle isthat those of us in the world of
payments have managed to makepayments really complex for a
whole bunch of reasons, and alot of it's due to legacy
systems or legacy processes thatbanks have, the proliferation
(03:01):
of similar payment types, likewhat's the real difference
between RTP and FedNow, and sowe fundamentally believe that we
call it the network.
The network should handle thatcomplexity for businesses,
because businesses aren't in thebusiness of building payment
products.
They're in the businesses ofdelivering a package, of issuing
an insurance claim, of payingan energy rebate, and so that's
(03:24):
our second core principle Lettechnology handle that
complexity so that the business,the consumer, doesn't need to
worry about it.
And the third is if youunderstand the identity of the
recipient, whether it's abusiness or a consumer, you can
build a lot of trust that you'regoing to be able to make that
payment to the right person tothe right payment account.
(03:47):
And so today we supporteverything from insurance claims
to energy rebates, to actuallyESOP payments, to travel
reimbursements.
And we purposely built thecompany to be able to support
that range of use cases becausewe believe that this
verification and payment layershould be independent from
(04:09):
back-end systems, that it getsthe data from the back-end
systems but shouldn't beattached to the workflow.
So a good example is insurancehas its own software to process
claims.
They should be able to usewhatever software they want and
we should be able to pick upthat file to pay those insurance
claims and then enable thesesafe payments.
Mortgage servicing is the sameway.
(04:30):
They have a different set ofsoftware that handles processing
the servicing of a mortgage,paying out escrow payments,
paying out balances when theyclose an account.
And again, being independentfrom that allows us to support a
wide range of use cases andreally meet our enterprise
customers' requirements.
Greg Myers (04:50):
Okay, and back when we talked a couple years ago,
your main, I think, channel yousold through banks and financial
institutions.
Is that still the primary?
Ben Turner (04:59):
Yeah, so we sell through banks and we sell to
large enterprises and let thembring their own banks.
Greg Myers (05:03):
Okay.
Ben Turner (05:04):
So we do that for two reasons.
One, in the world of largeenterprise disbursements, banks
are always going to play acentral role because of the
liquidity requirements, and sowe're about enabling the
modernization of thosedisbursements without disrupting
the business relationships thatthat enterprise needs with
their bank to operate theirbusiness.
(05:26):
The benefit the business gets isthey can trust the precision of
those payments, that they'regoing to the right payee, the
right payment account.
But it also gives them thevisibility they need to optimize
their cash management From abank standpoint.
It allows the banks to go totheir customers and help them
solve one of their challenges,which is how do you get rid of
errors and frauds in payment andhow do they help grow their
(05:49):
customer relationships so theycan maintain that treasury
relationship which is reallyvaluable to a large bank?
So I think we recentlyannounced an investment in
partnership with Citizens Bankwhere we're providing the
underlying infrastructure fortheir disbursement product and
it's all about that verificationlayer, making sure that they
(06:11):
can support mitigating errorsand fraud, making sure they can
deliver the visibility theirenterprise customers need to
modernize their disbursements.
Greg Myers (06:20):
And I know we talked last time a good bit about
choice, like who chooses howsomeone gets paid.
So curious if that's changed orstill kind of the same theory.
Ben Turner (06:30):
Yeah, so it's the same theory, but the interesting
thing is, payment choice orpayment optionality is table
stakes.
Anybody in the B2B or B2Cpayment space is going to be
able to offer it.
What we do that's unique,though, is that understanding
every transaction and verifyingevery transaction provides the
information on what's the rightpayment optionality for a
(06:52):
specific payment, and then welayer on top of that is what is
that enterprise's preference tooffer from payment types,
whether it's pay-by-bank,whether it's virtual card,
whether it's a combination ofboth, whether it's Venmo,
whatever they matches to theirbusiness model?
Then we'll have that overlay.
So we're making that choice orproviding those options to the
(07:15):
payee based on risk, based onthe enterprise or payer's
preferences, and then based onthe transaction thresholds for
each of the payment types.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Okay.
Greg Myers (07:25):
And with all the talk lately in the last couple
of years faster payments andspeed does that become more
critical?
Or is the security and makingsure you get it right more
important than the speed?
Ben Turner (07:36):
Yeah, I mean, what's really more important is
getting rid of the errors andfraud, because the truth is, in
the world of enterprise paymentsit's a negotiated thing, so we
actually talk about it ason-time payments.
So whether I've agreed to paymy supplier or pay that
insurance claim in five days or15 days or right now, is really
(07:57):
what you're delivering against.
More importantly, the way welook at the world is you're also
trying to optimize the cashmanagement for our enterprise
customer.
So it's the timing of the debitand credit that really matters.
So real-time is more valuableoften on the debit side than it
is on the credit side, becauseif I'm going to pay an insurance
(08:19):
claim on day 25 or pay asupplier on day 45, I want to
initiate that payment eitherthat day or the day before, so
the money sits in my bankaccount longer.
Greg Myers (08:33):
Okay, and I think back then two, three years ago,
you were able to disperse to 140countries through your banks.
Is that still the same?
Ben Turner (08:43):
Yeah, we're north of that now.
So you know, internationally wesupport five different payment
types.
We've formed a pretty uniquepartnership with MasterCard
around Move, where we're notonly domestically but also for
cross-border, enabling Move.
One of the things that we'reable to do because we look at
the world as a data problem isfor banks we can implement
(09:04):
things like push-to-card orcross-border without touching
their core systems.
It's all about using theirexisting rails to do the debits
and credits.
Greg Myers (09:14):
Okay, okay.
Well, what would you say?
Differentiates Verituity fromyour competitors.
Ben Turner (09:19):
Yeah, it really is this comprehensive approach to
verification right.
We actually start at the pointof that file, that disbursement
file, leaving whether it's anERP or a treasury system or a
bank's core system and start theverification process there to
catch those anomalies, thoseerrors and the fraud activity
(09:41):
before you even start to try toprocess the payment.
And then we focus on makingsure we know who that payee is,
that we can establish therelationship between the payee
and the payment and the payer,that we can make sure they have
the right payment optionality or, if they have a payment account
on file, that that's a validpayment account, that that
(10:03):
payment account is associatedwith the actual payee, and then
making sure the right paymentrouting happens and verifying
that that is whatever the statusis.
Has it settled yet?
Is it in progress?
Is something else going on andtying that whole chain together
so that our customers can trustand have the precision they need
(10:23):
in payments to know they'repaying the right pay to the
right payment account on time?
And that makes us oddly uniquein the market.
Greg Myers (10:31):
Okay, and where do you see sort of the disbursement
industry headed, say, in thenext three to five years?
What are the major trendsyou're seeing?
Ben Turner (10:40):
Yeah.
So what we're seeing is a driveto not only get off check right
so there's in the US there'sstill a significant amount of
checks but also getting rid ofthe cost of operating legacy
disbursement systems, becauseeverybody's feeling cost
pressures.
There's three things that drivethat.
One is just the flat-out errorsand fraud that happen.
(11:02):
Oftentimes in a largeenterprise.
There are more errors thanfraud, but the dollar amount of
the fraud is larger.
The second thing is the badguys are getting more
sophisticated and constantlyactive.
Our entire platform is builtaround AI.
It's not just AI that each parthas its own model, it's all
(11:22):
linked together so you get agood decision for the enterprise
.
Then, overlaying that, are theenterprise's policies of what is
an acceptable risk, how shouldthat payment be routed?
What are the right paymenttypes.
What we think is going tohappen in the world of
disbursements is you have thiscost and fraud factor driving
(11:43):
the need to modernization.
But where we think it's headedis because you're solving for
that and because you createbetter visibility is you can now
optimize the cash.
A lot of large enterprises areslow to move off check because
they like the float.
Well, you can create the floatin digital if you have the
(12:04):
visibility and the intelligenceon how to manage those debits
and credits, and that's where wethink it's headed.
Greg Myers (12:09):
Okay, and I think when we talked three years ago,
there was some talk about crypto.
I don't know if there's beenany advances in dispersing
through crypto or stable coinsor anything but curious what's
going on there?
Ben Turner (12:22):
We can do it.
But we see no demand and myview is that as the regulatory
environment shifts a little biton that and with the current
administration's push that willstart to change right.
But if you think about it as anenterprise, the fluctuation in
value risk you don't want tobear.
So the way we approach it isthe same way we approach
(12:44):
cross-border is shift that riskto your payee and let them
decide when they want to lock inthe rate.
Greg Myers (12:50):
Okay, that makes sense.
Yeah, I just it's curiousthere's little demand.
I mean I certainly I don't knowanyone that wants to get paid
with crypto.
I mean maybe that's coming inthe next few years, but I
certainly don't at least hangaround with anybody that's
getting paid in any kind ofdisbursements with crypto.
Ben Turner (13:08):
No, I mean right now , crypto looks more like a
commodity than it does actuallya currency.
Now, stablecoin is closer to acurrency, but you look at the
steps the current administrationis taking, it's likely it will
start to look like a currency.
Once that happens, I thinkyou'll see some people put their
toe in the water.
Greg Myers (13:26):
Yeah, so you mentioned AI and certainly a lot
of the conversations andpayments that I have about AI
it's related to fraud.
Are you using AI in other areasof your business or mainly
within that?
Ben Turner (13:40):
Yeah, so we fully embrace AI.
We use it for everything frommaking our software development
process more efficient toproviding value to our customers
, and so on the providing valueto the customer side.
We use it to detect errors andfraud.
We also use it to monitortransactions and tell the story
of that transaction, and then weuse it as well to make that
(14:03):
decision on what's the right wayto handle the debit and credit.
Greg Myers (14:06):
Okay, okay, that makes sense, all right.
Well, let's switch gears alittle bit and talk about you.
Maybe talk a little bit.
You told us a little bit aboutyour career background, but
maybe how you decided to do thisbusiness, what was the pain
point that you were trying tosolve for?
Maybe a little bit about thefounder story.
Ben Turner (14:26):
Yeah, yeah.
So the reason I started thisbusiness was really informed
about my journey from NetworkSolutions to starting here, and
so one of the challenges that wehad at Network Solutions was
getting off check.
So when we went off check, itwas before there was any
sophistication around acceptingcredit cards online and checking
(14:47):
for fraud, and we hadunbelievable fraud rates
unbelievable to the point wherewe almost got shut down by all
the card companies.
So the way we solved it was wefigured out hey, if we can
understand the identity on theother side of the card, then we
know what to stop and what'sokay.
And so that became foundationalto the way I've been thinking
(15:08):
about payments throughout mycareer, which is it's really
about this convergence ofidentity and payments and
verification that allows you tobuild trust and payments.
So when I was at this supplychain risk company, it was the
same thing that we were seeingwith suppliers.
There's not only risk in thesupply chain, but the payment
part of the supply chain wasvery challenging because it's
(15:32):
easy to insert fraud.
So an email compromise eventand all of a sudden you're not
paying your supplier, you'repaying some fraudster's account.
Again, that can be solved byunderstanding the identity, and
so it all just kind of convergedfor us in terms of thinking
about how to solve this problemover the last really 20 years
leading up to starting thecompany.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Okay.
Greg Myers (15:54):
And I don't think I asked this last time, but I'm
curious where did the name comefrom?
Ben Turner (15:58):
So myself and my other co-founders, chris Smith
and Anthony Renzetti, are notthe world's best namers, but I
was out on a trail run and I waslike, hey, maybe that will work
.
And so that's how we did itNothing very sophisticated.
Greg Myers (16:13):
Well, good, no, so not the four hour brainstorming
on the whiteboard, or anythinglike that.
Ben Turner (16:17):
No, trust me, if the three of us had done that, the
name would have been horrible.
Greg Myers (16:23):
Great, great Well.
You mentioned trail riding andI know last time we talked about
some of your personal passionsand obviously your family and
you also mentioned beingoutdoors, so maybe let's step
back and talk about your passionfor the business.
What areas of the business areyou most passionate about?
Ben Turner (16:38):
Yeah, so I love data challenges and really putting
trust and precision and paymentsis a data challenge, and so
there's nothing more excitingMatter of fact, we're doing it
today is sitting down with ourdata science team and reviewing
a rock curve to see what do wethink about false positive rates
(16:59):
versus the positive rates.
There's nothing more excitingthan figuring out how to tell
the story with the data that'savailable to you and figuring
out how to fill in the gaps sothat you can get safety into
that payment, you can getvisibility into that payment.
To me, that's the fun part ofthis business.
It's all about telling thestory through data.
(17:21):
The second thing that probablyevery founder tells you.
I enjoy working with ourcustomers, like hearing the
problems they have and showingthem how easy it is to solve
some of them if you think aboutit as a data problem.
Greg Myers (17:35):
So who do you work with at these, like the banks
and the large enterprisecompanies?
Is it the CFO office?
Ben Turner (17:43):
Yes, it comes out as CFO, so generally the treasurer
is the person that's on point,Depending on the organization
right, there might be somethingcalled a shared services group
inside there that's alsoinvolved, but it's really driven
by the treasury function or theCFO function out of the
enterprise and on the bankingside it's the treasury teams.
Greg Myers (18:03):
Okay, and then you mentioned data.
How much of their data do youingest into your systems?
Ben Turner (18:09):
So, to give you a sense, when we go to verify a
business, the only thing we'regetting from the bank's customer
, or from what we collectdirectly, is the basic profile
information you would expect fora business.
But we look across more than210 million data points to
verify not only the business butthat admin's relationship to
(18:32):
the business, the business'srelationship to the payment.
So that's what I mean.
It's one of the fun thingsabout our business is you're
telling this big story usingdata that delivers outsized
results about lowering errors,lowering fraud and providing
visibility.
Greg Myers (18:48):
Okay, well, back to your passion.
So on the personal side, youhad mentioned family and,
obviously, being in the outdoors.
Any new hobbies or anything inthe last couple of years?
Ben Turner (18:57):
It's hard to have a hobby when you're building a
business.
Yeah, I love mountain biking, Ilove trail running, I like
history.
I think one of the biggestthings you can do as a business
person or a founder is readbiographies, autobiographies,
whether it's Ben Franklin orGrant or Steve Jobs.
(19:19):
It's a great way to learn, butit's also fascinating to see how
they went about, particularlyBenjamin Franklin, how he went
about particularly BenjaminFranklin, how he went about
being so successful in so manydifferent facets of society and
the creativity and the freenesshe had in his thinking.
Greg Myers (19:37):
Yeah, I've read not as many of the older people in
history's biography, more thecurrent kind of business leaders
, and really really enjoy thatas well.
So final question someone comesto you and says, ben, I'm
interested in payments andfintech as a career.
Maybe they just graduated fromcollege or maybe they're
changing industries and they saywhat do I need to do to be
(19:57):
successful in this industry?
What would you tell them?
Ben Turner (20:00):
So I would tell them a couple of things.
One, it's an oddly technicalspace from not a software or AI,
but just a technical spacearound the rules of how you can
handle payments.
And so you have to have apassion to want to go learn that
or you really can't besuccessful.
(20:21):
The language is unique, therules are unique.
You just have to learn that asa foundation.
The second thing is as afoundation.
The second thing is make adecision.
Do you like dealing withenterprises as your customer or
do you like dealing withconsumers?
Because those are two differentworlds.
And then you throw in banks.
If you like banks, then you canhave a third world, but you
(20:42):
really have to pick one of thosefocuses because you have to
become an expert in that broadermarket.
And then the third thing isjust look at the world
differently.
One of the reasons I'm giving aspeech soon on what's the
similarity between BenjaminFranklin, bob Dylan and Steve
Jobs in building a paymentbusiness.
(21:02):
Well, they all require firstprinciple thinking.
They change the world bythinking about things
differently, and I think ifyou're going into a fintech,
that's what you want to go inwith the mindset.
You want to find fintechs thatare thinking like that.
Greg Myers (21:16):
Yeah, I love that last piece of advice.
That's interesting.
I think there are a lot offintechs thinking differently,
so there's some opportunity outthere.
Well, ben, we've covered a lotof ground so far about you and
the company.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we wrap up
the show?
No, this was great, okay.
Well, ben, thank you so muchfor being here.
I really appreciate your time.
I know your time is veryprecious, so thanks again for
(21:37):
being on the show today.
Thank you, take care, take care.
And to all Listeners out there,I thank you for your time as
well, and until the next story.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
(22:05):
channels as well.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Greg Myers (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Meyers, andon today's show we have a very
special guest, ben Turner, theCEO and president of Verituity.
Ben has been on the show before, actually in May of 2022, so
about three years ago.
So, ben, welcome back to theshow.
Thanks, glad to be back,awesome.
Well, let's start out by havingyou tell our audience a little
(00:38):
bit about yourself.
Maybe where you're from, whereyou grew up, where you went to
school, maybe where youcurrently live, where you're
from where you grew up, whereyou went to school, maybe where
you currently live.
A few things like that, yeah,sure.
Ben Turner (00:45):
So I grew up in Southern Ohio coal country and
farm country and ended up goingto undergrad at Miami University
, moved to DC, lived in DC for acouple years, ended up moving
to Houston, worked in Houstonfor about a year and ended up
back in DC in my first job intechnology working for AT&T a
(01:06):
year and ended up back in DC inmy first job in technology
working for AT&T.
Went from there and was part ofa startup called Network
Solutions, where we were doingwe were one of the first early
e-commerce companies.
As a matter of fact, part ofthe reason I started Verituity
was we were being paid fordomain names and websites via
checks.
We were out how to go fromchecks to credit cards, which
was a massive undertakingbecause we at one point had one
(01:29):
of the world's largest accessdatabases as our billing system.
Oh wow.
Went from there, ended upgetting acquired by a company
called VeriSign that was reallyfocused on the security and
identity side, and that's whereI started to merge this concept
of payments and identity andthen fast forward.
Before I started this company,I helped launch a supply chain
(01:50):
analytics company whichhighlighted the risk in the
world of B2B payments and thechallenges that enterprises are
facing and that led me to launchVerituity, where we're all
about solving for businessestheir disbursement challenges,
whether it's to a consumer or toanother business.
Greg Myers (02:08):
Okay, well, let's dive into Verituity.
For those that maybe didn'tlisten to the last episode,
maybe give us the kind ofhigh-level overview of the
company.
Ben Turner (02:17):
Sure, sure.
So the core principle ofeverything we do at Verituity is
making sure that we're able toknow, verify and understand
every transaction.
We do that for a couple reasons.
One it allows us to make surethat we have the precision you
need in enterprise disbursementsto know that you're using the
right funding account, you'repaying the right payee, you're
(02:39):
paying the right payment accountand you're able to do
reconciliation in near real time.
The second core principle isthat those of us in the world of
payments have managed to makepayments really complex for a
whole bunch of reasons, and alot of it's due to legacy
systems or legacy processes thatbanks have, the proliferation
(03:01):
of similar payment types, likewhat's the real difference
between RTP and FedNow, and sowe fundamentally believe that we
call it the network.
The network should handle thatcomplexity for businesses,
because businesses aren't in thebusiness of building payment
products.
They're in the businesses ofdelivering a package, of issuing
an insurance claim, of payingan energy rebate, and so that's
(03:24):
our second core principle Lettechnology handle that
complexity so that the business,the consumer, doesn't need to
worry about it.
And the third is if youunderstand the identity of the
recipient, whether it's abusiness or a consumer, you can
build a lot of trust that you'regoing to be able to make that
payment to the right person tothe right payment account.
(03:47):
And so today we supporteverything from insurance claims
to energy rebates, to actuallyESOP payments, to travel
reimbursements.
And we purposely built thecompany to be able to support
that range of use cases becausewe believe that this
verification and payment layershould be independent from
(04:09):
back-end systems, that it getsthe data from the back-end
systems but shouldn't beattached to the workflow.
So a good example is insurancehas its own software to process
claims.
They should be able to usewhatever software they want and
we should be able to pick upthat file to pay those insurance
claims and then enable thesesafe payments.
Mortgage servicing is the sameway.
(04:30):
They have a different set ofsoftware that handles processing
the servicing of a mortgage,paying out escrow payments,
paying out balances when theyclose an account.
And again, being independentfrom that allows us to support a
wide range of use cases andreally meet our enterprise
customers' requirements.
Greg Myers (04:50):
Okay, and back when we talked a couple years ago,
your main, I think, channel yousold through banks and financial
institutions.
Is that still the primary?
Ben Turner (04:59):
Yeah, so we sell through banks and we sell to
large enterprises and let thembring their own banks.
Greg Myers (05:03):
Okay.
Ben Turner (05:04):
So we do that for two reasons.
One, in the world of largeenterprise disbursements, banks
are always going to play acentral role because of the
liquidity requirements, and sowe're about enabling the
modernization of thosedisbursements without disrupting
the business relationships thatthat enterprise needs with
their bank to operate theirbusiness.
(05:26):
The benefit the business gets isthey can trust the precision of
those payments, that they'regoing to the right payee, the
right payment account.
But it also gives them thevisibility they need to optimize
their cash management From abank standpoint.
It allows the banks to go totheir customers and help them
solve one of their challenges,which is how do you get rid of
errors and frauds in payment andhow do they help grow their
(05:49):
customer relationships so theycan maintain that treasury
relationship which is reallyvaluable to a large bank?
So I think we recentlyannounced an investment in
partnership with Citizens Bankwhere we're providing the
underlying infrastructure fortheir disbursement product and
it's all about that verificationlayer, making sure that they
(06:11):
can support mitigating errorsand fraud, making sure they can
deliver the visibility theirenterprise customers need to
modernize their disbursements.
Greg Myers (06:20):
And I know we talked last time a good bit about
choice, like who chooses howsomeone gets paid.
So curious if that's changed orstill kind of the same theory.
Ben Turner (06:30):
Yeah, so it's the same theory, but the interesting
thing is, payment choice orpayment optionality is table
stakes.
Anybody in the B2B or B2Cpayment space is going to be
able to offer it.
What we do that's unique,though, is that understanding
every transaction and verifyingevery transaction provides the
information on what's the rightpayment optionality for a
(06:52):
specific payment, and then welayer on top of that is what is
that enterprise's preference tooffer from payment types,
whether it's pay-by-bank,whether it's virtual card,
whether it's a combination ofboth, whether it's Venmo,
whatever they matches to theirbusiness model?
Then we'll have that overlay.
So we're making that choice orproviding those options to the
(07:15):
payee based on risk, based onthe enterprise or payer's
preferences, and then based onthe transaction thresholds for
each of the payment types.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Okay.
Greg Myers (07:25):
And with all the talk lately in the last couple
of years faster payments andspeed does that become more
critical?
Or is the security and makingsure you get it right more
important than the speed?
Ben Turner (07:36):
Yeah, I mean, what's really more important is
getting rid of the errors andfraud, because the truth is, in
the world of enterprise paymentsit's a negotiated thing, so we
actually talk about it ason-time payments.
So whether I've agreed to paymy supplier or pay that
insurance claim in five days or15 days or right now, is really
(07:57):
what you're delivering against.
More importantly, the way welook at the world is you're also
trying to optimize the cashmanagement for our enterprise
customer.
So it's the timing of the debitand credit that really matters.
So real-time is more valuableoften on the debit side than it
is on the credit side, becauseif I'm going to pay an insurance
(08:19):
claim on day 25 or pay asupplier on day 45, I want to
initiate that payment eitherthat day or the day before, so
the money sits in my bankaccount longer.
Greg Myers (08:33):
Okay, and I think back then two, three years ago,
you were able to disperse to 140countries through your banks.
Is that still the same?
Ben Turner (08:43):
Yeah, we're north of that now.
So you know, internationally wesupport five different payment
types.
We've formed a pretty uniquepartnership with MasterCard
around Move, where we're notonly domestically but also for
cross-border, enabling Move.
One of the things that we'reable to do because we look at
the world as a data problem isfor banks we can implement
(09:04):
things like push-to-card orcross-border without touching
their core systems.
It's all about using theirexisting rails to do the debits
and credits.
Greg Myers (09:14):
Okay, okay.
Well, what would you say?
Differentiates Verituity fromyour competitors.
Ben Turner (09:19):
Yeah, it really is this comprehensive approach to
verification right.
We actually start at the pointof that file, that disbursement
file, leaving whether it's anERP or a treasury system or a
bank's core system and start theverification process there to
catch those anomalies, thoseerrors and the fraud activity
(09:41):
before you even start to try toprocess the payment.
And then we focus on makingsure we know who that payee is,
that we can establish therelationship between the payee
and the payment and the payer,that we can make sure they have
the right payment optionality or, if they have a payment account
on file, that that's a validpayment account, that that
(10:03):
payment account is associatedwith the actual payee, and then
making sure the right paymentrouting happens and verifying
that that is whatever the statusis.
Has it settled yet?
Is it in progress?
Is something else going on andtying that whole chain together
so that our customers can trustand have the precision they need
(10:23):
in payments to know they'repaying the right pay to the
right payment account on time?
And that makes us oddly uniquein the market.
Greg Myers (10:31):
Okay, and where do you see sort of the disbursement
industry headed, say, in thenext three to five years?
What are the major trendsyou're seeing?
Ben Turner (10:40):
Yeah.
So what we're seeing is a driveto not only get off check right
so there's in the US there'sstill a significant amount of
checks but also getting rid ofthe cost of operating legacy
disbursement systems, becauseeverybody's feeling cost
pressures.
There's three things that drivethat.
One is just the flat-out errorsand fraud that happen.
(11:02):
Oftentimes in a largeenterprise.
There are more errors thanfraud, but the dollar amount of
the fraud is larger.
The second thing is the badguys are getting more
sophisticated and constantlyactive.
Our entire platform is builtaround AI.
It's not just AI that each parthas its own model, it's all
(11:22):
linked together so you get agood decision for the enterprise
.
Then, overlaying that, are theenterprise's policies of what is
an acceptable risk, how shouldthat payment be routed?
What are the right paymenttypes.
What we think is going tohappen in the world of
disbursements is you have thiscost and fraud factor driving
(11:43):
the need to modernization.
But where we think it's headedis because you're solving for
that and because you createbetter visibility is you can now
optimize the cash.
A lot of large enterprises areslow to move off check because
they like the float.
Well, you can create the floatin digital if you have the
(12:04):
visibility and the intelligenceon how to manage those debits
and credits, and that's where wethink it's headed.
Greg Myers (12:09):
Okay, and I think when we talked three years ago,
there was some talk about crypto.
I don't know if there's beenany advances in dispersing
through crypto or stable coinsor anything but curious what's
going on there?
Ben Turner (12:22):
We can do it.
But we see no demand and myview is that as the regulatory
environment shifts a little biton that and with the current
administration's push that willstart to change right.
But if you think about it as anenterprise, the fluctuation in
value risk you don't want tobear.
So the way we approach it isthe same way we approach
(12:44):
cross-border is shift that riskto your payee and let them
decide when they want to lock inthe rate.
Greg Myers (12:50):
Okay, that makes sense.
Yeah, I just it's curiousthere's little demand.
I mean I certainly I don't knowanyone that wants to get paid
with crypto.
I mean maybe that's coming inthe next few years, but I
certainly don't at least hangaround with anybody that's
getting paid in any kind ofdisbursements with crypto.
Ben Turner (13:08):
No, I mean right now , crypto looks more like a
commodity than it does actuallya currency.
Now, stablecoin is closer to acurrency, but you look at the
steps the current administrationis taking, it's likely it will
start to look like a currency.
Once that happens, I thinkyou'll see some people put their
toe in the water.
Greg Myers (13:26):
Yeah, so you mentioned AI and certainly a lot
of the conversations andpayments that I have about AI
it's related to fraud.
Are you using AI in other areasof your business or mainly
within that?
Ben Turner (13:40):
Yeah, so we fully embrace AI.
We use it for everything frommaking our software development
process more efficient toproviding value to our customers
, and so on the providing valueto the customer side.
We use it to detect errors andfraud.
We also use it to monitortransactions and tell the story
of that transaction, and then weuse it as well to make that
(14:03):
decision on what's the right wayto handle the debit and credit.
Greg Myers (14:06):
Okay, okay, that makes sense, all right.
Well, let's switch gears alittle bit and talk about you.
Maybe talk a little bit.
You told us a little bit aboutyour career background, but
maybe how you decided to do thisbusiness, what was the pain
point that you were trying tosolve for?
Maybe a little bit about thefounder story.
Ben Turner (14:26):
Yeah, yeah.
So the reason I started thisbusiness was really informed
about my journey from NetworkSolutions to starting here, and
so one of the challenges that wehad at Network Solutions was
getting off check.
So when we went off check, itwas before there was any
sophistication around acceptingcredit cards online and checking
(14:47):
for fraud, and we hadunbelievable fraud rates
unbelievable to the point wherewe almost got shut down by all
the card companies.
So the way we solved it was wefigured out hey, if we can
understand the identity on theother side of the card, then we
know what to stop and what'sokay.
And so that became foundationalto the way I've been thinking
(15:08):
about payments throughout mycareer, which is it's really
about this convergence ofidentity and payments and
verification that allows you tobuild trust and payments.
So when I was at this supplychain risk company, it was the
same thing that we were seeingwith suppliers.
There's not only risk in thesupply chain, but the payment
part of the supply chain wasvery challenging because it's
(15:32):
easy to insert fraud.
So an email compromise eventand all of a sudden you're not
paying your supplier, you'repaying some fraudster's account.
Again, that can be solved byunderstanding the identity, and
so it all just kind of convergedfor us in terms of thinking
about how to solve this problemover the last really 20 years
leading up to starting thecompany.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Okay.
Greg Myers (15:54):
And I don't think I asked this last time, but I'm
curious where did the name comefrom?
Ben Turner (15:58):
So myself and my other co-founders, chris Smith
and Anthony Renzetti, are notthe world's best namers, but I
was out on a trail run and I waslike, hey, maybe that will work
.
And so that's how we did itNothing very sophisticated.
Greg Myers (16:13):
Well, good, no, so not the four hour brainstorming
on the whiteboard, or anythinglike that.
Ben Turner (16:17):
No, trust me, if the three of us had done that, the
name would have been horrible.
Greg Myers (16:23):
Great, great Well.
You mentioned trail riding andI know last time we talked about
some of your personal passionsand obviously your family and
you also mentioned beingoutdoors, so maybe let's step
back and talk about your passionfor the business.
What areas of the business areyou most passionate about?
Ben Turner (16:38):
Yeah, so I love data challenges and really putting
trust and precision and paymentsis a data challenge, and so
there's nothing more excitingMatter of fact, we're doing it
today is sitting down with ourdata science team and reviewing
a rock curve to see what do wethink about false positive rates
(16:59):
versus the positive rates.
There's nothing more excitingthan figuring out how to tell
the story with the data that'savailable to you and figuring
out how to fill in the gaps sothat you can get safety into
that payment, you can getvisibility into that payment.
To me, that's the fun part ofthis business.
It's all about telling thestory through data.
(17:21):
The second thing that probablyevery founder tells you.
I enjoy working with ourcustomers, like hearing the
problems they have and showingthem how easy it is to solve
some of them if you think aboutit as a data problem.
Greg Myers (17:35):
So who do you work with at these, like the banks
and the large enterprisecompanies?
Is it the CFO office?
Ben Turner (17:43):
Yes, it comes out as CFO, so generally the treasurer
is the person that's on point,Depending on the organization
right, there might be somethingcalled a shared services group
inside there that's alsoinvolved, but it's really driven
by the treasury function or theCFO function out of the
enterprise and on the bankingside it's the treasury teams.
Greg Myers (18:03):
Okay, and then you mentioned data.
How much of their data do youingest into your systems?
Ben Turner (18:09):
So, to give you a sense, when we go to verify a
business, the only thing we'regetting from the bank's customer
, or from what we collectdirectly, is the basic profile
information you would expect fora business.
But we look across more than210 million data points to
verify not only the business butthat admin's relationship to
(18:32):
the business, the business'srelationship to the payment.
So that's what I mean.
It's one of the fun thingsabout our business is you're
telling this big story usingdata that delivers outsized
results about lowering errors,lowering fraud and providing
visibility.
Greg Myers (18:48):
Okay, well, back to your passion.
So on the personal side, youhad mentioned family and,
obviously, being in the outdoors.
Any new hobbies or anything inthe last couple of years?
Ben Turner (18:57):
It's hard to have a hobby when you're building a
business.
Yeah, I love mountain biking, Ilove trail running, I like
history.
I think one of the biggestthings you can do as a business
person or a founder is readbiographies, autobiographies,
whether it's Ben Franklin orGrant or Steve Jobs.
(19:19):
It's a great way to learn, butit's also fascinating to see how
they went about, particularlyBenjamin Franklin, how he went
about particularly BenjaminFranklin, how he went about
being so successful in so manydifferent facets of society and
the creativity and the freenesshe had in his thinking.
Greg Myers (19:37):
Yeah, I've read not as many of the older people in
history's biography, more thecurrent kind of business leaders
, and really really enjoy thatas well.
So final question someone comesto you and says, ben, I'm
interested in payments andfintech as a career.
Maybe they just graduated fromcollege or maybe they're
changing industries and they saywhat do I need to do to be
(19:57):
successful in this industry?
What would you tell them?
Ben Turner (20:00):
So I would tell them a couple of things.
One, it's an oddly technicalspace from not a software or AI,
but just a technical spacearound the rules of how you can
handle payments.
And so you have to have apassion to want to go learn that
or you really can't besuccessful.
(20:21):
The language is unique, therules are unique.
You just have to learn that asa foundation.
The second thing is as afoundation.
The second thing is make adecision.
Do you like dealing withenterprises as your customer or
do you like dealing withconsumers?
Because those are two differentworlds.
And then you throw in banks.
If you like banks, then you canhave a third world, but you
(20:42):
really have to pick one of thosefocuses because you have to
become an expert in that broadermarket.
And then the third thing isjust look at the world
differently.
One of the reasons I'm giving aspeech soon on what's the
similarity between BenjaminFranklin, bob Dylan and Steve
Jobs in building a paymentbusiness.
(21:02):
Well, they all require firstprinciple thinking.
They change the world bythinking about things
differently, and I think ifyou're going into a fintech,
that's what you want to go inwith the mindset.
You want to find fintechs thatare thinking like that.
Greg Myers (21:16):
Yeah, I love that last piece of advice.
That's interesting.
I think there are a lot offintechs thinking differently,
so there's some opportunity outthere.
Well, ben, we've covered a lotof ground so far about you and
the company.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add before we wrap up
the show?
No, this was great, okay.
Well, ben, thank you so muchfor being here.
I really appreciate your time.
I know your time is veryprecious, so thanks again for
(21:37):
being on the show today.
Thank you, take care, take care.
And to all Listeners out there,I thank you for your time as
well, and until the next story.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
(22:05):
channels as well.
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