December 10, 2025 • 15 mins
If you run a small or mid-sized retail business and feel stuck between legacy tools and rising customer expectations, this conversation is your playbook for breaking through. We sit down with Unzer CEO Robert Bueninck to unpack how bundling software and payments helps merchants deliver seamless experiences across in-store and online without enterprise budgets or heavyweight integrations.
Robert traces his journey from early Klarna days to leading Unzer’s “payments and beyond” ecosystem, and lays out why the mid-market is the most underserved (and most promising) space in European commerce. We dive into the practical ways software plus payments drives real outcomes: faster onboarding, unified reporting, and simpler support when QR ordering, click-and-collect, or in-store returns marry e-commerce and POS. He explains Unzer’s focus on food services, beauty, and apparel, and how a clear build-partner boundary keeps products sharp while letting merchants scale when complexity grows.
We also dig into Europe’s unique payments fabric. Alternative payment methods and account-to-account rails already dominate online checkout in markets like the Netherlands and Belgium, changing merchant economics with lower cost and instant funds. BNPL fills the buyer-protection gap, while policymakers push toward a pan-European A2A framework and greater vendor independence. Robert separates hype from habit on agentic commerce and stablecoins, arguing that adoption only happens when the new flow truly makes life easier for shoppers and staff and that’s where the mid-market wins.
Looking ahead, Robert outlines Unzer’s growth bets: expand combined software and payments across core markets, bring all products to all regions, and help “make Germany digital” as a foundation for broader European reach. If you care about SMB retail, omnichannel checkout, A2A payments, BNPL, and the future of European payments infrastructure, you’ll find plenty to act on here.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing the productsand services that impact the
payment space today, as well astrends and predictions for the
future of payments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments Podcast.
I'm your host, Greg Myers, andtoday's special guest is Robert
Boonick, the CEO of Unzer.
So, Robert, thank you for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
So before we dive into yourcareer and about the company,
can you give us a quick snapshotof your personal background,
maybe where you grew up, whereyou call home today, a few
things like that?
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Sure things.
So I'm uh what you call a DutchKiwi, grew up in Amsterdam,
Netherlands, lived around manydifferent places in the world.
Lately, I lived seven years in aplace called Berlin, and since
about nine months, I live inLuxembourg.
SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
Okay.
So can you walk us through yourprofessional journey and how you
got to Unser?
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Sure.
So I basically started my ownbusiness from university
onwards, did a few differentventures.
Where at the end I joined acompany called Klarna, which I
think now is also well known inthe US.
When I joined, I think we wereroughly 300 people at the time,
so still very, very early.
They just launched outside ofthe Nordics here in Europe.
I've stayed with them for aboutnine years, ended up running the
(01:19):
Benelux Plus France region forthem.
Then I moved to Germany to headup what is called Dach, which is
Germany, Austria, Switzerland,which is a geographical region
here that is often used.
Built it out to that point beingmore than half of the business
from a PL perspective.
And time to let the birds leaveits nest and uh run a business
(01:40):
myself fully, not just uh as aregional head.
And got asked by a company by abig PE firm called KKR, which is
probably also well known, tohead up this venture called
called UNSER.
So that is what I've been doingnow for the last four and a
half, running to five years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Well, tell us what UNSER does.
Sure.
So UNSAR is uh payments andbeyond business.
So what we do is we provide afull ecosystem of wherever a
merchant wants to sell andcommercialize its enterprise.
Uh we can help them withpayments.
So that means point of sale,e-commerce.
We have our own binoculatorproduct as well that we sell
wide label, and we also sell thesoftware.
(02:16):
So we do full cashier softwaresuite for for small medium
enterprises where they can alsorun their little business with.
We really focus on small tomid-market.
So we really try to empower alsosmall businesses to compete in a
world that is more and moredigital and where we're on and
offline borders have been fadedaway, right?
(02:36):
So in the US is a great examplewhere this has already gone
quite far, especially having thesoftware and the payments coming
in one suite, especially in inEurope, especially middle
Europe, Germany, that is stilluh quite early on the journey,
and then we see a real importantrole for UNTER to play there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
Okay.
And are there certain verticalsthat you mostly are in or any
small business?
SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
In essence, any small business, but mostly
physical retail.
And with the software suite,we've really focused on three
verticals, which is uhgastronomy, restaurants, which
is uh beauty, so barbershops,hairdressers, these types of
businesses, and also what wecall apparel, which is really
the suite where where this onand offline combination um
really really is important andsets food, right?
(03:20):
Where we work with small localbusinesses but also regional
chains.
So uh exciting stuff for us.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah.
So what's the biggest challengethat your company is solving for
your customers right now?
SPEAKER_02 (03:31):
So I think with within the region here, it's
really this this digitaltransformation.
You see that that the big, bigglobal, but also trans-European
enterprises, they've invested inthis for a long time, right?
And they have createdexperiences for consumers where
on an offline you start ajourney online, you finish it
offline, and vice versa.
And that of course is achallenge for smaller retailers
(03:52):
to solve for because they don'thave the budgets, they don't
have the connectivity, andthat's really what we try and
solve for them, right?
To be able to give them all thetools to provide an experience
which consumers want and allowsthem to also compete with the
big players.
SPEAKER_01 (04:05):
Okay, and how do you go to market?
Do you have like a sales teamfeet on the street or through
partner channels?
How do you go to market?
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
All of it.
So we have we have differentproducts that we bring to
market, right?
So it's really we sell them as abundle, but also separately.
Today Unser has about 750employees, we have about 150
salespeople.
So we have, you know, we sellour point of sale still door to
door as well as through onlinemarketing.
So we have both models.
Key account is a classical KeyAccount team, right?
(04:32):
Where it goes through throughfares, calling, and a lot of
engagement through partners aswell.
Where we even have a partnershipwith local retail banks that
send us leads also for thesoftware suite.
So it's really encompasses thefull ways of wherever our
merchants can be found, uh, wetry to uh to reach them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
Okay, and what would you say differentiates you from
your competitors?
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
I think we have a broad range of competitors on
the individual products.
We have different competitors.
What we what makes us unique isthat we can provide the full
ecosystem, right?
That really we're a one-stopshop where wherever a merchant
wants to start his journey, theycan they can work with us.
And to simplify it in companiesthat would be well known is we
we really focus on themid-market where a lot of the
(05:13):
business still sits with legacyhere in the region.
So we start where where sum-upstops and we stop where agenda
starts.
So we really sit in that thatmid-market where we can deliver
a lot of value, but also youprofits are still there to be
made from a pricing point.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Okay.
Do you feel like most companiesstart with retail and move to
e-commerce, or is it kind of acombination of the two?
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
It's really a combination of the two.
I think that's really a shiftyou've seen, right?
Where a lot of physical retail,of course, started having web
shops, but now you also see itwith restaurants, certainly
post-COVID, that you have QRcode payments being part of
what's normally offered, whichis of course, in itself, a mix
between an online transactionthrough the QR code and the
phone, talking to the cashiersolution physically in the
(05:55):
restaurant, right?
So that's a classical examplewhere even in a small restaurant
online have merged.
But what you also see, ofcourse, is that a lot of online
retailers are looking intohaving some physical stores, uh,
either through pop-up stores inthe beginning, but also as a
sort of an experience center.
So you see that that these twoworlds are uh yeah, more and
(06:16):
more one.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Okay.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout the future.
So, where do you see the biggestgrowth opportunity in your
segment of payments?
SPEAKER_02 (06:23):
So, within our markets, like I said, they're
still early on the transitionphase of having the software and
the and the payments being acombined offering, right?
And I think that's we see a lotof opportunity there.
We've seen a growth rate nowyear over year of more than 100%
within this uh this businesssegment of us.
And uh we really foresee that toto continue to grow, which is
massive opportunity.
(06:43):
At the same time, yeah, you alsosee, of course, that that APMs
continue to grow.
So we also see a lot ofopportunity for our bina-pulator
offering, which is uh in termsof acceptance rates and loss
rates, really amazinglyperforming in the market.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Okay.
And what does the success looklike for your company, say, over
the next three to five years?
SPEAKER_02 (07:01):
Next three to five years.
I think first we'll we'll haveall our products in all our
markets.
We'll make Germany digital, as Ilike to joke to my German
colleagues.
It's nice as a Dutchman to jokea bit about the Germans being
behind.
And at the same time, I thinkwhen we really filled in that
mission and really have um grownquite big in our core markets,
uh, I think we can move on anduh and deliver our products to
(07:24):
the rest of Europe.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
Okay.
So in the US, seems like everyvertical has a software that
businesses use to operate withinthat vertical, and then payments
is kind of bolted onto it.
Is that similar there or is it adifferent model altogether?
So that's kind of one question.
And then the second part wouldbe like, what does the software
do that you have?
(07:45):
I mean, here it's inventorycontrol, it's automating
workflows, things like that.
Is it a similar kind of setupthere or is it different?
SPEAKER_02 (07:52):
It is very much a similar setup.
I think you have a you have alot of niche software players
that really solve for very nicheproduct lines.
I think that is quite the same.
What is quite new is thisbundling of it in a combined
offering.
So it is still quite normal thatyou you buy your payments from
one vendor, you then buy yoursoftware from another vendor,
(08:14):
and then you need to connect itto the US payment landscape, it
is a bit easier in the way thatit's very card dominant, right?
Which scales quite easily.
Within Europe, there's a lot oflocal payment methods that you
really require to have to besuccessful locally.
And they have a much wider rangeof APMs that that also take
market share.
It's a quite complex market tooperate in.
(08:34):
That also means that the barrierof entry is quite high for these
combined offerings, and this isalso why this maturity hasn't
really developed yet, right?
So this is uh this is whythere's still this this big
market opportunity lake for us,which we're taking in.
In terms of the software, wehave a suite which delivers for
for small to medium retailerswhen it gets to a certain
(08:55):
complexity, then we we know whatwe're good at, and then we
partner with the softwarevendors that take them from
there, essentially.
There's a limit to what you cando to perfection, right?
So we that's why we we keep ourtarget quite contained and uh
and focused.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Okay.
What would you say are thebiggest trends that are
reshaping the payments industry?
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
Well, of course, I now need to say um agente
commerce and uh stable coin.
Those are really the buzzwords,right?
And for everybody that's been inin payments uh know that every
year has its new buzzwords, andmany of them come out and and
really become massive, and andsome end up being disappointing.
I'm not gonna pass my judgmentwhether these two follow in the
first or the second category.
(09:34):
I think both, of course, clearlyhave a big role to play in the
future.
But often it's also the littlethings that mature and and
really bring a massive wave ofdifferentiation, right?
And uh something like thebundling is is a clear one.
But I think also you startseeing that from a regulatory
perspective, the macro movingsfrom a geopolitical perspective
(09:57):
do change things, right?
In Europe, there's a lot ofpolitical push now slowly to
have a European payment schemethat is very independent from
outside vendors.
And that will, I think, lead toquite some changes in time.
There's a bit of a lack of truston uh Chinese terminals, and
there's a bit of a lack of truston uh US payment providers also
(10:18):
following email from theInternational Court of Justice
being blocked, etc.
So it's early days, but I'm I'mpretty sure there's a lot of
noise coming from thatperspective.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Do you hear much from your small businesses about
agentic commerce?
Do you think that's a realityfor them in the next couple of
years?
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
They ask us for advice, they ask us where we see
it going.
I think our role to play isreally to help our merchants
sell whatever channel that isrelevant for them, right?
So for us as a business, it'swe're we're we're really focused
on being one of the first onesout uh to be able to provide
this to our merchants when itcomes to market.
Um and at the same time alsoprovide them with advice on how
(10:56):
they're best equipped in orderto play a role in these new
channels.
But it's still very early days,right?
Especially for small and mediumretailers.
It's more that they they want toknow what to do with it rather
than they ask for very concretesolutions.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Yeah, I don't think there's much difference in in
what we hear uh, you know, herein the US as far as that goes.
Everyone's still trying tofigure out what does it really
mean and you know, not sure whoeven has solutions yet, but
everyone seems to think it'scoming, so seems to be similar
there.
The other thing that has alwaysintrigued me about Europe is
sort of the account-to-accountpayments, because we don't
(11:32):
really have that in the US atthe retail level like we do for
billers, you know, your powerbill and your electricity and
water and those kind of thingsare often account-to-account.
But as far as ever walking intoa restaurant or walking into a
retail store or, you know,really paying online, we don't
necessarily have that in theU.S.
So curious your thoughts onthat.
(11:53):
How much of that do you see?
Do you see that increasing overthe years?
Just your thoughts there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
The level of maturity really, really differs
per market.
I think moving into a retailstore, unless it functions like
a peer-to-peer payment, that isstill not that mature.
Um, the use cases are not thatbig yet.
But from an online perspective,some of Europe's markets, take
the Netherlands or Belgium ornow also even Sweden and
Switzerland, it takes themajority of the checkout, right?
(12:19):
In the Netherlands, about 80% ofall online transactions are
essentially anaccount-to-account transaction.
Merchants love it because it'svery safe for them, it's super
cheap, and they get their fundsstraight away.
From a consumer perspective,they like it because it's easy
and convenient and they knowabout it, but they don't have
the buyer protection as easy,right?
So if they return their goodsand they need to wait some time
(12:41):
for them to get their moneyback.
So this is also one of thereasons why um buy now pay later
plays such a big role.
Because it of course gives theultimate buyer protection.
You uh you don't pay for it yetif you don't receive the goods,
right?
But I think there's now there'ssome initiatives coming out of
the European Parliament whichwants to create a pan-European
account-to-account paymentmethod or payment reels.
(13:02):
Because now there's a lot oflocal initiatives, but per
country it's different and it'snot really connected yet.
So this is where you you'llprobably see a shift.
Pricing is also very differentfor market.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Okay.
So a couple final questions.
If you could go back in time andgive yourself some advice at the
start of your career, what wouldthat be?
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
I think if you look at some of the bad decisions I
made versus the good decisions Imade, the bad ones were usually
when my gut told me something,but my rationale took over and
my rationale convinced me to dothe other thing.
Um, so it's a bitcounterintuitive in in the in a
world where everything needs tobe data-driven decisions, but
(13:39):
sometimes it's you gotta followyour gut if you trust it.
So that would be uh definitelyone thing I would tell myself.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Okay.
What's the one thing in paymentsthat you know maybe people who
are listening today, what do youthink they should really be
thinking about like right now,today when it comes to payments?
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
I think the beautiful thing of payments is
always that there's a lot ofchange, there's a lot of hype,
there's a lot of talk about thisindustry will be wiped out
tomorrow and that will becompletely different.
And but at the end, there's somevery core consistent lines that
you need to think of where it isdoes it really solve something
for the consumer?
Does it really make it easierfor the consumer?
(14:17):
Because at the end, the toughestthing to change is habit, and a
lot of payment initiativesforget that people don't change
habit overnight, right?
Unless it really, reallyincrementally makes something
better.
And that is where a lot of theinitiative fails and why we're
all not paying with GoogleGlasses as we wink.
That's a good one.
Sometimes it's really about doesit solve something or not?
(14:39):
And if it does, then it can goquickly.
But sometimes uh the solution isoverdone for what it's solving
for.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Absolutely.
So before we wrap up, any finalthoughts, anything you want to
leave the audience with relatedto the company, to you know,
your career?
Any final comments?
SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
No, just follow your bean payments and follow Unser.
There's a lot of interestingthings going on.
SPEAKER_01 (15:00):
Okay.
Well, Robert, thank you so muchfor your time today.
I know it's very valuable, so Ireally appreciate you being on
the show.
Thank you for having me, Greg.
And to all you listeners outthere, I thank you for your time
as well.
And until the next story.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Thank you for joining us this week on the
Leaders in Payments Podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpayments.com, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening, pleaseshare on your social channels as
well.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing the productsand services that impact the
payment space today, as well astrends and predictions for the
future of payments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments Podcast.
I'm your host, Greg Myers, andtoday's special guest is Robert
Boonick, the CEO of Unzer.
So, Robert, thank you for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
So before we dive into yourcareer and about the company,
can you give us a quick snapshotof your personal background,
maybe where you grew up, whereyou call home today, a few
things like that?
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Sure things.
So I'm uh what you call a DutchKiwi, grew up in Amsterdam,
Netherlands, lived around manydifferent places in the world.
Lately, I lived seven years in aplace called Berlin, and since
about nine months, I live inLuxembourg.
SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
Okay.
So can you walk us through yourprofessional journey and how you
got to Unser?
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Sure.
So I basically started my ownbusiness from university
onwards, did a few differentventures.
Where at the end I joined acompany called Klarna, which I
think now is also well known inthe US.
When I joined, I think we wereroughly 300 people at the time,
so still very, very early.
They just launched outside ofthe Nordics here in Europe.
I've stayed with them for aboutnine years, ended up running the
(01:19):
Benelux Plus France region forthem.
Then I moved to Germany to headup what is called Dach, which is
Germany, Austria, Switzerland,which is a geographical region
here that is often used.
Built it out to that point beingmore than half of the business
from a PL perspective.
And time to let the birds leaveits nest and uh run a business
(01:40):
myself fully, not just uh as aregional head.
And got asked by a company by abig PE firm called KKR, which is
probably also well known, tohead up this venture called
called UNSER.
So that is what I've been doingnow for the last four and a
half, running to five years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Well, tell us what UNSER does.
Sure.
So UNSAR is uh payments andbeyond business.
So what we do is we provide afull ecosystem of wherever a
merchant wants to sell andcommercialize its enterprise.
Uh we can help them withpayments.
So that means point of sale,e-commerce.
We have our own binoculatorproduct as well that we sell
wide label, and we also sell thesoftware.
(02:16):
So we do full cashier softwaresuite for for small medium
enterprises where they can alsorun their little business with.
We really focus on small tomid-market.
So we really try to empower alsosmall businesses to compete in a
world that is more and moredigital and where we're on and
offline borders have been fadedaway, right?
(02:36):
So in the US is a great examplewhere this has already gone
quite far, especially having thesoftware and the payments coming
in one suite, especially in inEurope, especially middle
Europe, Germany, that is stilluh quite early on the journey,
and then we see a real importantrole for UNTER to play there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
Okay.
And are there certain verticalsthat you mostly are in or any
small business?
SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
In essence, any small business, but mostly
physical retail.
And with the software suite,we've really focused on three
verticals, which is uhgastronomy, restaurants, which
is uh beauty, so barbershops,hairdressers, these types of
businesses, and also what wecall apparel, which is really
the suite where where this onand offline combination um
really really is important andsets food, right?
(03:20):
Where we work with small localbusinesses but also regional
chains.
So uh exciting stuff for us.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah.
So what's the biggest challengethat your company is solving for
your customers right now?
SPEAKER_02 (03:31):
So I think with within the region here, it's
really this this digitaltransformation.
You see that that the big, bigglobal, but also trans-European
enterprises, they've invested inthis for a long time, right?
And they have createdexperiences for consumers where
on an offline you start ajourney online, you finish it
offline, and vice versa.
And that of course is achallenge for smaller retailers
(03:52):
to solve for because they don'thave the budgets, they don't
have the connectivity, andthat's really what we try and
solve for them, right?
To be able to give them all thetools to provide an experience
which consumers want and allowsthem to also compete with the
big players.
SPEAKER_01 (04:05):
Okay, and how do you go to market?
Do you have like a sales teamfeet on the street or through
partner channels?
How do you go to market?
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
All of it.
So we have we have differentproducts that we bring to
market, right?
So it's really we sell them as abundle, but also separately.
Today Unser has about 750employees, we have about 150
salespeople.
So we have, you know, we sellour point of sale still door to
door as well as through onlinemarketing.
So we have both models.
Key account is a classical KeyAccount team, right?
(04:32):
Where it goes through throughfares, calling, and a lot of
engagement through partners aswell.
Where we even have a partnershipwith local retail banks that
send us leads also for thesoftware suite.
So it's really encompasses thefull ways of wherever our
merchants can be found, uh, wetry to uh to reach them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
Okay, and what would you say differentiates you from
your competitors?
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
I think we have a broad range of competitors on
the individual products.
We have different competitors.
What we what makes us unique isthat we can provide the full
ecosystem, right?
That really we're a one-stopshop where wherever a merchant
wants to start his journey, theycan they can work with us.
And to simplify it in companiesthat would be well known is we
we really focus on themid-market where a lot of the
(05:13):
business still sits with legacyhere in the region.
So we start where where sum-upstops and we stop where agenda
starts.
So we really sit in that thatmid-market where we can deliver
a lot of value, but also youprofits are still there to be
made from a pricing point.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Okay.
Do you feel like most companiesstart with retail and move to
e-commerce, or is it kind of acombination of the two?
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
It's really a combination of the two.
I think that's really a shiftyou've seen, right?
Where a lot of physical retail,of course, started having web
shops, but now you also see itwith restaurants, certainly
post-COVID, that you have QRcode payments being part of
what's normally offered, whichis of course, in itself, a mix
between an online transactionthrough the QR code and the
phone, talking to the cashiersolution physically in the
(05:55):
restaurant, right?
So that's a classical examplewhere even in a small restaurant
online have merged.
But what you also see, ofcourse, is that a lot of online
retailers are looking intohaving some physical stores, uh,
either through pop-up stores inthe beginning, but also as a
sort of an experience center.
So you see that that these twoworlds are uh yeah, more and
(06:16):
more one.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Okay.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout the future.
So, where do you see the biggestgrowth opportunity in your
segment of payments?
SPEAKER_02 (06:23):
So, within our markets, like I said, they're
still early on the transitionphase of having the software and
the and the payments being acombined offering, right?
And I think that's we see a lotof opportunity there.
We've seen a growth rate nowyear over year of more than 100%
within this uh this businesssegment of us.
And uh we really foresee that toto continue to grow, which is
massive opportunity.
(06:43):
At the same time, yeah, you alsosee, of course, that that APMs
continue to grow.
So we also see a lot ofopportunity for our bina-pulator
offering, which is uh in termsof acceptance rates and loss
rates, really amazinglyperforming in the market.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Okay.
And what does the success looklike for your company, say, over
the next three to five years?
SPEAKER_02 (07:01):
Next three to five years.
I think first we'll we'll haveall our products in all our
markets.
We'll make Germany digital, as Ilike to joke to my German
colleagues.
It's nice as a Dutchman to jokea bit about the Germans being
behind.
And at the same time, I thinkwhen we really filled in that
mission and really have um grownquite big in our core markets,
uh, I think we can move on anduh and deliver our products to
(07:24):
the rest of Europe.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
Okay.
So in the US, seems like everyvertical has a software that
businesses use to operate withinthat vertical, and then payments
is kind of bolted onto it.
Is that similar there or is it adifferent model altogether?
So that's kind of one question.
And then the second part wouldbe like, what does the software
do that you have?
(07:45):
I mean, here it's inventorycontrol, it's automating
workflows, things like that.
Is it a similar kind of setupthere or is it different?
SPEAKER_02 (07:52):
It is very much a similar setup.
I think you have a you have alot of niche software players
that really solve for very nicheproduct lines.
I think that is quite the same.
What is quite new is thisbundling of it in a combined
offering.
So it is still quite normal thatyou you buy your payments from
one vendor, you then buy yoursoftware from another vendor,
(08:14):
and then you need to connect itto the US payment landscape, it
is a bit easier in the way thatit's very card dominant, right?
Which scales quite easily.
Within Europe, there's a lot oflocal payment methods that you
really require to have to besuccessful locally.
And they have a much wider rangeof APMs that that also take
market share.
It's a quite complex market tooperate in.
(08:34):
That also means that the barrierof entry is quite high for these
combined offerings, and this isalso why this maturity hasn't
really developed yet, right?
So this is uh this is whythere's still this this big
market opportunity lake for us,which we're taking in.
In terms of the software, wehave a suite which delivers for
for small to medium retailerswhen it gets to a certain
(08:55):
complexity, then we we know whatwe're good at, and then we
partner with the softwarevendors that take them from
there, essentially.
There's a limit to what you cando to perfection, right?
So we that's why we we keep ourtarget quite contained and uh
and focused.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Okay.
What would you say are thebiggest trends that are
reshaping the payments industry?
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
Well, of course, I now need to say um agente
commerce and uh stable coin.
Those are really the buzzwords,right?
And for everybody that's been inin payments uh know that every
year has its new buzzwords, andmany of them come out and and
really become massive, and andsome end up being disappointing.
I'm not gonna pass my judgmentwhether these two follow in the
first or the second category.
(09:34):
I think both, of course, clearlyhave a big role to play in the
future.
But often it's also the littlethings that mature and and
really bring a massive wave ofdifferentiation, right?
And uh something like thebundling is is a clear one.
But I think also you startseeing that from a regulatory
perspective, the macro movingsfrom a geopolitical perspective
(09:57):
do change things, right?
In Europe, there's a lot ofpolitical push now slowly to
have a European payment schemethat is very independent from
outside vendors.
And that will, I think, lead toquite some changes in time.
There's a bit of a lack of truston uh Chinese terminals, and
there's a bit of a lack of truston uh US payment providers also
(10:18):
following email from theInternational Court of Justice
being blocked, etc.
So it's early days, but I'm I'mpretty sure there's a lot of
noise coming from thatperspective.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Do you hear much from your small businesses about
agentic commerce?
Do you think that's a realityfor them in the next couple of
years?
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
They ask us for advice, they ask us where we see
it going.
I think our role to play isreally to help our merchants
sell whatever channel that isrelevant for them, right?
So for us as a business, it'swe're we're we're really focused
on being one of the first onesout uh to be able to provide
this to our merchants when itcomes to market.
Um and at the same time alsoprovide them with advice on how
(10:56):
they're best equipped in orderto play a role in these new
channels.
But it's still very early days,right?
Especially for small and mediumretailers.
It's more that they they want toknow what to do with it rather
than they ask for very concretesolutions.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Yeah, I don't think there's much difference in in
what we hear uh, you know, herein the US as far as that goes.
Everyone's still trying tofigure out what does it really
mean and you know, not sure whoeven has solutions yet, but
everyone seems to think it'scoming, so seems to be similar
there.
The other thing that has alwaysintrigued me about Europe is
sort of the account-to-accountpayments, because we don't
(11:32):
really have that in the US atthe retail level like we do for
billers, you know, your powerbill and your electricity and
water and those kind of thingsare often account-to-account.
But as far as ever walking intoa restaurant or walking into a
retail store or, you know,really paying online, we don't
necessarily have that in theU.S.
So curious your thoughts onthat.
(11:53):
How much of that do you see?
Do you see that increasing overthe years?
Just your thoughts there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
The level of maturity really, really differs
per market.
I think moving into a retailstore, unless it functions like
a peer-to-peer payment, that isstill not that mature.
Um, the use cases are not thatbig yet.
But from an online perspective,some of Europe's markets, take
the Netherlands or Belgium ornow also even Sweden and
Switzerland, it takes themajority of the checkout, right?
(12:19):
In the Netherlands, about 80% ofall online transactions are
essentially anaccount-to-account transaction.
Merchants love it because it'svery safe for them, it's super
cheap, and they get their fundsstraight away.
From a consumer perspective,they like it because it's easy
and convenient and they knowabout it, but they don't have
the buyer protection as easy,right?
So if they return their goodsand they need to wait some time
(12:41):
for them to get their moneyback.
So this is also one of thereasons why um buy now pay later
plays such a big role.
Because it of course gives theultimate buyer protection.
You uh you don't pay for it yetif you don't receive the goods,
right?
But I think there's now there'ssome initiatives coming out of
the European Parliament whichwants to create a pan-European
account-to-account paymentmethod or payment reels.
(13:02):
Because now there's a lot oflocal initiatives, but per
country it's different and it'snot really connected yet.
So this is where you you'llprobably see a shift.
Pricing is also very differentfor market.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Okay.
So a couple final questions.
If you could go back in time andgive yourself some advice at the
start of your career, what wouldthat be?
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
I think if you look at some of the bad decisions I
made versus the good decisions Imade, the bad ones were usually
when my gut told me something,but my rationale took over and
my rationale convinced me to dothe other thing.
Um, so it's a bitcounterintuitive in in the in a
world where everything needs tobe data-driven decisions, but
(13:39):
sometimes it's you gotta followyour gut if you trust it.
So that would be uh definitelyone thing I would tell myself.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Okay.
What's the one thing in paymentsthat you know maybe people who
are listening today, what do youthink they should really be
thinking about like right now,today when it comes to payments?
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
I think the beautiful thing of payments is
always that there's a lot ofchange, there's a lot of hype,
there's a lot of talk about thisindustry will be wiped out
tomorrow and that will becompletely different.
And but at the end, there's somevery core consistent lines that
you need to think of where it isdoes it really solve something
for the consumer?
Does it really make it easierfor the consumer?
(14:17):
Because at the end, the toughestthing to change is habit, and a
lot of payment initiativesforget that people don't change
habit overnight, right?
Unless it really, reallyincrementally makes something
better.
And that is where a lot of theinitiative fails and why we're
all not paying with GoogleGlasses as we wink.
That's a good one.
Sometimes it's really about doesit solve something or not?
(14:39):
And if it does, then it can goquickly.
But sometimes uh the solution isoverdone for what it's solving
for.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Absolutely.
So before we wrap up, any finalthoughts, anything you want to
leave the audience with relatedto the company, to you know,
your career?
Any final comments?
SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
No, just follow your bean payments and follow Unser.
There's a lot of interestingthings going on.
SPEAKER_01 (15:00):
Okay.
Well, Robert, thank you so muchfor your time today.
I know it's very valuable, so Ireally appreciate you being on
the show.
Thank you for having me, Greg.
And to all you listeners outthere, I thank you for your time
as well.
And until the next story.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Thank you for joining us this week on the
Leaders in Payments Podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpayments.com, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening, pleaseshare on your social channels as
well.
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