July 29, 2025 • 42 mins
“This episode contains explicit language and may not be suitable for all audiences.”
The journey from developer to co-CEO of a global payments provider isn't for the faint of heart. Monika Liikamaa knows this firsthand. As the co-founder of Enfuce, she's built a company that processes cards for 24 million cardholders worldwide, pioneering cloud-native solutions when the industry thought it impossible.
Monika's story begins in northern Sweden, where Finnish parents raised a future engineer who would transform multiple industries. After cutting her teeth in telco during Finland's Nokia boom and subsequent crash, she found herself building a bank from scratch as a consultant. This experience sparked a revelation – she was a builder at heart, drawn to challenges others deemed too difficult. When offered the chance to create a financial institution capable of handling three countries, three currencies, two time zones and revolving credit, she couldn't resist.
What makes Monika's leadership philosophy stand out is its refreshing directness. "Openness, honesty and trust," she explains, form the bedrock of effective leadership. She advocates for diversity not as a checkbox exercise but as a competitive advantage. With approximately 50% male and female employees representing over 20 nationalities, Enfuce harnesses diverse perspectives to create more effective payment solutions. This approach acknowledges a simple reality in payment design: women make the majority of household payment decisions, yet have historically been underrepresented in designing those very systems.
Perhaps most revealing is Monika's response to crisis. When UNICEF needed relief cards for Ukrainian refugees, her team delivered in days what normally takes months. This experience crystallized what drives her – solving meaningful problems that make a tangible difference in people's lives. It's the same spirit behind the "Fortitude Pledge" she launched, challenging payment industry players to combat human trafficking and financial crime.
For those looking to enter the payments industry, Monica offers practical wisdom: understand problems deeply, gain perspective from different sides of the table, and remember that no company has been built exactly like yours before.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andthis episode is part of our
Women Leaders in Payments month,something we do every year in
the month of July, and it's oneof my favorite times of the year
.
This year's theme is redefiningleadership, influence, impact
and innovation.
So those are some of the thingsyou're going to be hearing
about during the month of July.
So first, a special thank youto our sponsors.
(00:41):
Our title sponsor is WorldPay,our participating sponsors are
VisiPay and Payrock, and ourepisode sponsors are the
Clearinghouse and Genico andPaySafe.
So special thanks to thosecompanies.
Today, we're lucky enough tohave as our special guest Monica
Licama, and she is theco-founder and co-CEO of Enfuse.
(01:01):
So, monica, thank you so muchfor being here and welcome to
the show.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So let's start off with a little icebreaker.
So if you could have dinnerwith any woman in the world
could be past or present whowould that be and why and what
type of restaurant would you goto?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I would definitely choose Eleanor Roosevelt because
I do think that she did a lotof changes and, looking at that
era that she was living and thechallenges in the world, I think
that would be an interestingdialogue and there would be a
lot of learning opportunities.
Of course, being a Finn, Iwould take her to a Finnish
(01:38):
restaurant, a nice one, so thatwe can sit down and have a long
dinner.
So probably Olo, which is avery nice Michelin restaurant in
Helsinki, would be my place ofchoice.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Okay, awesome, and so let's talk a little bit now
about your background and career.
So maybe give us a snapshot ofyour career, maybe even where
you grew up, where you studied,and then what led you into
payments.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yes, so I'm born in Sweden to Finnish parents, so
I'm born in the north part ofSweden and did my first 20 years
on that side of the border.
So I'm up north from the borderof Finland and Sweden.
And then I met my to-be husbandand also decided to move to the
Finnish side.
(02:22):
I've been studying engineering,so been a developer during my
early career and then ended upin the telco industry.
So I became an adult during thedepression in Finland and then,
of course, as we started racingand we had those whole Nokia
years and what that did to theFinnish economy, and at that
(02:43):
point I was in the telcoindustry.
So I had a mobile networkoperator and lived the dot-com
boom and the crash.
And then I founded my firstcompany back in 2006, where I
ended up as a consultantbuilding a bank from scratch.
So in one of the biggestmerchants groups in Finland S
(03:04):
Group they had decided that theywant to build a bank within the
group because they had all therestaurants, the hotels, the
fuel stations, the food storesetc.
And making sure that they couldcontrol also funds would be a
good thing.
So when I went and built thebank I was the test manager
during the first phase of thebuild and then very much focused
(03:28):
on the card payments and makingsure that all the payments flew
correctly.
And then we did a successfullaunch back in 2007.
I had already two kids, so thenI was actually pregnant with my
third child.
And then, when the banklaunched, I then went on
maternity leave and that's whenthe bank CEO started calling and
(03:49):
saying like hey, monica, you'vebeen part of building this,
Wouldn't you want to come andmake sure it runs properly, also
in production mode?
And I said that would beinterested.
But what would the position be?
And then I was offered Iwouldn't say I was offered, I
was offered a developmentmanager role and I said no, not
interested.
And then they said, okay, butwould you come and become the
(04:10):
CIO, a management team member?
I said yeah, that would beinteresting.
So that's what I did, did thatfor some years, had my fourth
child and then in 2000, and,yeah, this is when you start
getting old-ish and probably, ifI look at my LinkedIn CV, I
would remember better the days.
But around 2015, I was 14, I wasdoing my executive MBA, because
(04:32):
I started apparently becoming abit bored as everything was
growing and very smooth, andthen I probably realized that
I'm a builder, so I like hardstuff, I like to really dive
into challenging and get shitdone, as I usually tend to say,
and at that point I was offereda position to start building
mobile payments and cardbusiness from scratch Not too
(04:54):
far from the bank though,because one of their service
providers in the core bank sidewas the one who offered me the
job.
So then I left the bank and Iheaded to the other side of the
table, the service provider side.
We built the processing issueprocessor side, and that's when
I met my to-be co-founder,denise, and I did my executive
MBA.
(05:14):
And then I wanted to do more,but the owners of that business
they were happy with focusing onthe Nordics, in particular
Sweden and Finland, and for methat was a bit too small, a bit
too easy, apparently.
And then I quit my job, did mythesis and then started thinking
of what to do when I grow upand gravitating a lot through
(05:37):
becoming an entrepreneur, likecontrolling or at least
influencing my destiny.
And as I had four kids alreadythen, and I had a lot of
mortgage to pay, and at thatpoint none of us me or my
husband weren't very wealthy, soto say, money-wise, and I took
a job, so I ran a small projectat a traditional bank and during
(05:58):
that time I was then presentedwith a proposal that if I would
want to come and build a newfinancial institution from
scratch, and I was like, no,I've done that before, but how
are you going to run theinfrastructure?
And they were like, yeah, well,we want something really good
and really scalable.
We are going to do consumerproducts and we're going to do
(06:19):
closed loop fleet product, andwe want to do it in three
countries, three currencies, twotime zones and having also
revolving credit.
And I was like, yeah, thatsounds like hard enough.
And that's how then Enfuse wasborn, and that's pretty much.
And then now, for the past nineyears, I've been building
Enfuse and we've been scaling.
I think now we're I actuallydon't know how many countries
(06:42):
we're alive in, but we havearound 24 million cardholders
globally that we are workingwith, and that's been where we
are scaling now.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, a quick, another fun kind of question.
Then we'll get back to Infuse.
If you're asked to come onstage, what would your hype song
be?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
If I would be asked to come on stage.
Well, I do like the Top Gunanthem a lot and I really love
the Top Gun movie the originalone but I also like Panic at the
Disco, like High Hopes.
Those are definitely two of mygo-to songs.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's great because you know, obviously we're doing
14 or so episodes this month andI've recorded almost all of
them and I've yet to have twopeople say the same thing.
So it's kind of fun to ask thequestion.
All right, well, let's go backto Enfuse, Maybe talk about sort
of the company a little bitmore, maybe a little bit about
what you do on a daily basis andwhat excites you about what
(07:35):
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, well, what we do as Enfuse is that we enable
different types of players toissue cards, and what that means
in practice is that we'repredominantly focused on banks
and lending, so enabling banksand lenders to issue either for
debit processing or then alsofor lending revolving credit
(07:56):
products.
But then I think, one of thekey big verticals where we have,
from a technical side, also ourlicenses we are an EMI under
the Finnish SupervisoryAuthority and also the UK FCA
and it means that we can enablebig players to issue cards.
So we take the whole burden ofthe issuing, not just the
technical processing.
So we enable players likeOctopus Electroverse, which is a
(08:20):
big UK and European energycompany, to issue credit cards
to their EV customers.
And then we have banks that weprocess for, and then we also do
a lot of import and other typesof, let's say, card-related
products.
So, for example, to the Finnishgovernment, we enable them to
issue the cards both for theFinnish Defence Forces but also
(08:42):
for the refugees and socialbenefits cards.
So it's a pretty broadportfolio but very much focused
on banks and lenders.
And then EV fleet mobility,fuel providers transitioning to
EV, then expense management andemployee benefits.
And you ask what does a typicalday look like?
(09:02):
I have no idea.
I don't think any day is thesame, and I think that's also
why I feel that, even thoughI've been doing this for the
past nine years, we're onlygetting started.
So I think when I look back atmy career because I do believe
that career is something thathappens, whether I like it or
not then how it looks like I can, of course, influence.
But looking back at my career,it's taken an average four to
(09:29):
five years.
So when I start building ordoing something to that I feel
that OK, now I kind of hit theambition feeling and then I need
to move on and we then choose,of course, as we want to be
number one in the world and verymuch focused on becoming number
one in Europe.
Now, of course, we also enableprocessing outside of Europe, so
both in Latam in Brazil andthen also in the Middle East,
(09:52):
but our focus is really to be anumber one player within Europe,
because we do think that, ifyou look at the European market,
we have different languages,different cultures, different
currencies, so it's a verycomplex market.
So succeeding here is a goodbaseline for then expanding
outside.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about
leadership and lessons learned.
So over the course, I would saythe last 10 or 15 years,
leadership has changed a goodbit.
I mean, covid drove some ofthat, but it was being changed
anyway.
So what do you consider modernleadership and how do you sort
of embody that on a daily basis?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's a good question.
I personally do think that myleadership style has probably
not fundamentally changed.
Of course it's evolved becausethe older I get, the more I
learn about stuff.
Of course it impacts in how Ilead.
But I think openness, honestyand trust, like building trust,
has always been a key fundamentin how I am.
(10:54):
But I also understand it'schallenging because the way I am
is I'm very direct, I don'tbelieve in political games, even
though I understand thatthere's a lot of politics in a
lot of things, and I thinkthat's also probably one of the
big reasons why I decided tobecome a founder and build a
company that I never worked atbecause of that.
(11:16):
But then understanding thatwhen you get a lot of different
people with a lot of differentbackgrounds, with their biases,
depending on where they comefrom, what cultural background
they have, it is going to bechallenging.
But I do think that in order tostrive and grow something big,
it's really important to behonest and I think it's to get
(11:38):
to know people, because youreally don't know anyone else's
struggles unless you walk a bitin their shoes, and the only way
to do that is communication andlooking back.
I think communication is thehardest thing, and people is the
hardest thing, and if I look, Itend to joke that I don't like
people and I'm like waiting forAI to come and, you know, make
(12:00):
everyone redundant,understanding, of course, that
that's not going to happen.
But what I mean is that Ireally like working with smart
people, like people who want todo good and who have integrity,
and I think those are the thingsI hope also to leave behind as
some sort of a legacy, and Iactually wrote my obituary some
(12:23):
time ago because I actually had,I think I read somewhere and I
don't, unfortunately, rememberexactly where, but people focus
too much on like how does my CVlook and what can I do to impact
, instead of maybe focusing onlike when I'm not here anymore,
what do I want people to sayabout me?
And when you write that downand then you look at it and
(12:45):
think about like, in order forme to be remembered this way,
what should I do every day?
And, of course, being mercifulto yourself that you know
everyone has bad days, but Ithink the intent matters and I
keep saying it also to mychildren.
But there are two words thatwill really help you throughout
(13:06):
your career.
But the magic only happens ifyou mean it, and that's I'm
sorry.
And then can you please help me?
So, asking for advice and helpand then making an apology if
you fucked up, I think thosewill carry, but they only work
if you mean it, because I dothink that us people, in the end
of the day, we have fortunately, this born quality of sniffing
(13:31):
out people that are not sincere.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Right right.
Well, when you step back andlook at your life or your career
or both, have you had thosesort of defining moments?
I call them like aha moments,but those moments in time that
really maybe changed thetrajectory of your career, your
life.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yes, definitely, I think.
In general, of course, I wouldsay, meeting my to-be husband
when I was young.
I was fortunate enough to findthe love of my life when I was
19.
And that finding a person thatis very grounded and still very
ambitious.
With him, we left the Northbecause there weren't very much
(14:10):
jobs and started building ourlife, and he's also a partner in
a building company and they'vebeen building that for a long
time.
So having that is, of course,one thing that I strongly
believe influenced the way I amtoday and where I come on my
journey.
And then, of course, if I lookat other moments, yeah, I think
during my younger years,especially working very
(14:33):
male-dominated industries, beinga tech person myself, there
were a couple of moments in timewhere I decided that, based on
how I was treated, I would nottolerate that.
I remember I was a very youngdeveloper in a really high fly
consultant company.
I was so happy and proud tohave landed that job.
(14:55):
And then I was a juniordeveloper in a project and then
the project director or whatever, came and something had gone
wrong, and I don't even rememberwhat it was, but he started
screaming at me that it was myfault.
And then there was this ladywho was secretary and she was
like you can't be like that.
You can't, on a juniordeveloper, start screaming on
(15:16):
something, and I think whathappened then I went to the
bathroom, I cried my balls outand then decided I'm never going
to tolerate being pissed onthat way.
But I also learned that itcould have been saved if he
would actually apologize, whichhe never did, and I think that
was a learning moment for me hownot to treat people, so I
(15:36):
didn't want me to be treatedthat way.
And then, of course, I thinkfrom a career perspective, when
I was part as a consultantbuilding S-Bank in S-Group, and
then we went live and it waslike we worked our asses off,
like seriously, because the onlything that couldn't change was
the timeline, because there wasa legislation change and the
(15:57):
group would have lost a lot ofmoney, so like the timeline had
to be, you know, strict, andthen we worked a lot and that
pride of succeeding together andthen being asked to join the
team to then clean up, kind ofthe things that we did, I think
those have been a very pivotalmoment also in my career, like
really seeing that if you workyour ass off.
(16:19):
Together you can really makebig things happen.
And then, of course, in Enfusehistory, when we became the
first one to put processing inpublic cloud, nobody else had
done it and we were like, ok,but that's the only way to scale
globally, because I wanted tobuild a company that was better,
faster and globally scalable.
And then we did that andsucceeded.
(16:40):
And today it's kind of de factostranded.
If you're not cloud native,everyone is like that's weird.
But having that courage to dothat, I don't think.
If I look back now, it wasn'tlike, oh, oh, my God, are we
going to do it?
It was like, okay, this makessense, let's do it.
But of course, looking back now, as you asked, those have been
those key moments.
(17:01):
And I think then the last, maybekey moment, at least for now in
my career, was when the war inUkraine started and UNICEF US
contacted Visa US, who contactedVisa Europe, who then contacted
us, and it was a Thursdaymorning.
We got an email and I think itwas like in March, so the war
(17:21):
had been going on for maybe amonth or so and and like the
refugees were pouring out and wewere asked like, could you help
us to issue a relief card so wecould put cards, money on the
card and give them out at theblue spot.
So when the refugees come,because that was a big challenge
(17:41):
, like instead of going withcash or IOUs and stuff and I
remember that Thursday morningwe sit down with Denise and we
decided like of course we can.
And then Thursday afternoon wedecided we're going to do it for
free.
And then by Friday morning wehad gathered 100,000 plastics
from our card manufacturer as adonation.
(18:01):
And then during the weekend weworked night and day to get
everything done.
And then on Monday when weinformed that we can ship the
cards by Wednesday to the Polishborder, we got an answer like
no, no, we just asked if youcould, because they weren't
ready to take on the process.
They didn't believe that anyonecould do it, because it
normally takes like six to eightto 12 months and we did it over
(18:24):
the weekend.
But what that did internally tothe company still makes me
really proud, because we showedabove and all to ourselves that
when things matter and we knowour shit, we can really get
things done.
And of course after that we'vedone a lot of relief programs as
well.
But those have been thosedefining moments throughout my
(18:46):
career.
When I look back, that has then, of course, fueled also to want
to do even more and become evenbetter.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Well, what do you think is something that women
leaders bring to the table thatour payments industry needs more
of?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I think, in general, diversity is important.
So whether you sit or standpeeing, I don't think it's
matter.
I think that there are manydifferent types matter.
So if I look again at end use,I think we are around 50-50,
male and female, we are like 20plus nationalities, et cetera.
Culture matters.
What that means is that wesolve problems better when there
(19:25):
are more views on what theproblem actually is.
And I think that doesn't justspeak for the payment industry,
but definitely in general.
And of course it by then wouldstart gathering facts and
figures Like out of thehouseholds making payments,
women are the ones that do themajority of decisions of where
(19:46):
money is deployed, meaning itwould be stupid if women were
part of designing the solutionsthat they are actually the ones
using.
So I do think it's important tohave diversity in general, and
what that needs to get there isequity.
So I do think that a lot ofguys who have done a great job
work their asses off.
(20:08):
I love to see even moreenabling others to thrive,
because I do think that by thatwe can become even stronger.
And then to us women, I do hopethat we can learn much more
from the guys to support eachother instead of competing with
each other, because in the endof the day, it's not a one
winner takes all.
(20:28):
Everything that we collectivelydo better makes things better,
okay, well, let's talk a littlebit about innovation and impact.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
So, as you know, our industry is changing very fast,
very innovative industry.
How do you, as a leader, stayinnovative?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Understanding problems.
I think, in general, focus hasbeen a big part.
So, in order to become the bestI always talk about, I want to
win the Olympics.
Big part.
So, in order to become the bestI always talk about, I want to
win the Olympics.
And it's very hard to win theOlympics unless you choose what
do you want to win the Olympicsfor?
Like it's decathlon or rowingor whatever, or a combination.
(21:05):
But you need to understandbecause if you try to do
everything, you become very thinand you become mediocre and
average.
So focus really leads to that,and what that means in practice
is that in order to innovate, weneed to understand a couple of
dimensions.
First of all, who are ourcustomers, who are the customers
we want to serve and what aretheir challenges.
So how do we help them?
(21:25):
But also somehow understandingthat, especially when it comes
to the banking and lending side,and then the fleet fuel
mobility, ev transition,employee benefit, etc.
Those businesses are veryfocused on solving a certain
problem, which means that it'sour responsibility, in order for
us to stay relevant, toactually understand that, based
(21:47):
on the whole technicalinfrastructure, our capabilities
, the compliance and securityitems, what can we help them
with so that they can becomeeven better technical
infrastructure, our capabilities, the compliance and security
items.
What can we help them with sothat they can become even better
?
And I know it's fortunate, but,as you said, it's a very fast
moving industry, also from a badperspective, meaning like with
the introduction of more AIcomes more deep fakes.
(22:08):
There's a lot of humantrafficking, money laundering,
terrorist financing a lot of badstuff.
But also understanding thatpaying with cash is even worse.
So how can we enable, throughdigital payments, much more
security, you know, dignitythrough payments, et cetera.
So making sure that theunbanked becomes banked.
(22:29):
How do we do financialinclusion?
So, in the end, understandingthe challenges and I do think
like trying to solve like thisbig, hairy, audacious goal, like
really understanding somethingreally big as a problem, because
I do think that if we onlyfocus on small problems, we tend
to lose the innovation, becausethen we do the same thing a bit
differently and that's notinnovative, but like looking at
(22:52):
something really big andunderstanding, of course, then
legislational shifts coming, andalso now I mean like look at
the news.
Unfortunately, the world isfilled with problems to solve
now more than ever.
So I don't think thatinnovation should or will stop.
So it's a constant being awareand awake in order to move
(23:14):
forward.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
What's one change or trend in the industry that
you're keeping a close eye on?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Of course, legislation is very important
and for us, one of thechallenges that I see that I'm
looking at is, of course, thiswhole geopolitical turbulence,
which means that there's a lotof need and wants and wishes to
run on-prem again sovereignclouds, etc.
(23:42):
So they're like being European,and especially from Finland and
the Nordics it's an interestingviewpoint on seeing the term
where we have China, we have US,then we want to be sovereign.
So I think there's a lot oftechnical restrictions coming up
in legislations that are basedout of fear.
So trying to tackle that andnot being part of building
(24:06):
something stupid just becausesome political weirdo thinks
it's scary, but also like makingsure we can explain how we
govern and how we protect thedata, because what we do is
still like it's payment data, soit's like personal data and
then it's your money, so theonly thing that it's equally
important is health data.
(24:27):
So I think, in that sense, it'sa big challenge looking at that
.
Then, in general, of course,I'm very interested in
understanding where this wholeenvironmental aspects are going.
What is happening actuallyglobally when it comes to now
focus on the environmentalaspects and reporting, etc.
Like trying to reallystrengthen the narrative, like
(24:50):
compliance and regulationreporting is good, but it's not
there as a purpose itself, thatthere is actually something
bigger on the other side and weshould actually, as businesses,
focus on solving the challengesand, as such, we should meet the
reporting requirements.
If I look at ourself again, weare under the payment card
(25:11):
industry data security standard.
There are standards andreporting requirements to the
right and left, and I alwayssaid like when we are one step
ahead, when we really focus onnot meeting the bar but
exceeding it, it actually meansthat we will be compliant to
anything at any given time, andthat should be business as usual
.
(25:31):
But the way we do it should befocused again on solving actual
problems.
And I do think that now I canfinally start seeing the impact,
with the bigger brands wantingto work with us because they
can't afford to jeopardize theirreputation, which means that
they have not had the courage todo anything innovative because
(25:54):
their reputation has been soneeded to be safeguarded.
So working with someone oursize has felt like yeah, yeah,
but we can't do it.
And now, finally, because wehave proven over and over again
that we actually take thesethings really seriously, and now
, as our laters, we launched theFortitude Pledge, where we
actually pledged the paymentindustry players to sign up and
(26:18):
commit to doing whatever theycan to eradicate human
trafficking, money launderingand terrorist financing in their
services.
So it's not about being perfect, but it is about raising the
bar and, as such, becomingbetter than just like trying to
get by with the standard minimumrequirements.
(26:38):
So I think mediocrity issomething that I really dislike,
whether it's in people orcompanies.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right, totally makes sense.
So how do you think femaleleaders can influence the future
direction of payments?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I would actually say more like how can leaders
influence?
But I think, with women, ofcourse, if and when we
collaborate more together and asI said earlier, that when we
realize that you know therearen't a limited set of seats at
the table and if you feel likethat, then fucking make your own
table.
So like don't go for excuses.
(27:14):
Like if you have a mission andyou want to change something for
the better, reach out, ask foradvice, ask for help and you
should get it.
Like I don't feel that I haveever been hit by a glass ceiling
.
I have been hit by ambitionceiling, but that's gender
irrelevant.
So people who are good enough,that's boring, but I do think
(27:36):
that as women, by really helpingeach other collaborate better,
we will change the wholeindustry for the better, as
there is still so few of us and,as such, the services are very
built from a male perspective,because, in the end of the day,
whatever you feel that thingsare, there is some differences
(27:58):
in male and female and, ofcourse, understanding that once
you become older, what I'veactually seen that I don't like
with us women and I don't thinkit's the individual's fault it's
just something to be mindful ofand also when us to support is
this thinking that you have tobe perfect in order to start.
(28:18):
You know, like when we startedlooking at at hiring more people
and we put out ads and werealized that we got really few
female applicants, because werealized that and I think
there's probably a lot ofstudies around this but women
have this tendency to actuallyread application and think like,
(28:39):
ah, I haven't done that, Idon't have this experience, I
don't know that.
And then, from a maleperspective, ah, interesting
company, I would love to workthere, I'll apply.
And I think if we could getmore of that and I do think it
comes from earlier stages, likeearlier in your life, where in
general, girls are expected tobe and behave nice and boys will
(28:59):
be boys.
And of course, it's often usmothers who impose that
stereotype because of our bias.
And when we start changing that, that's how equality becomes
and that's what I really hope tosee more of in the world.
So also us women taking ourdestiny in our hands.
And then, of course, I dounderstand that I come from the
(29:22):
Nordics, very privileged to beborn in a very equal society.
So I usually say that if youare European, especially from
the Nordics.
You have no excuses, especiallyfrom the Nordics you have no
excuses.
Then, of course, I understandthat, depending on where in the
world you are, it's going to bemuch harder to break some of the
biases, but I do think that'simportant to be leading for
(29:45):
change.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Well, let's talk a little bit about mentorship.
So, over your career, have youhad mentors and, if so, how have
they influenced you?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
That's a good question.
I would say, like, my initialfeeling is no, I haven't.
But then it depends on what doyou put into the word mentor.
So have I had people?
I discuss problems, understandperspective?
Yes, I am very extroverted, soI do talk a lot with people and
(30:16):
also try to listen, at leastmore than I talk, which doesn't
always end very well, but Ican't say like, okay, these are
my two mentors.
But looking back again at mycareer, of course there are
different people throughoutdifferent stages that have been
sounding boards, if that wouldmake sense as a word, and here
(30:37):
again a lot is my husband.
So again, as we both are, let'ssay, different personalities,
but share the same type ofambition and work ethics, we
talk a lot about the challenges,even though he's in the actual
construction industry, so hebuilds actual buildings.
I do consider myself a builder,so I just build something that's
(31:00):
a bit more intangible, but it'sthe same problems, it's the
same challenges, with being indifferent phases, being hit by
different challenges, and Ialways said that you know, shit
hits the fan every day.
That shit hits the fan everyday.
So the only thing I can do isprepare for the things that I
want to prepare and thentolerate and react to the ones I
(31:21):
couldn't foresee.
And I think one of the biggestshit shows that hit was COVID.
I mean, that was seriouslysomething that, even though,
looking back at my own careerbeing in the telco industry
doing a lot with people's dataand transactions, being in the
telco industry doing a lot withpeople's data and transactions
and then in the banking industrynever have I ever been looking
(31:43):
at an operative risk that wouldbe a pandemic.
And then just to see how theworld just stopped and people
actually died, that was weirdand now it feels like that's
forever.
And then how much that'schanged.
Also, especially in the paymentsindustry pushed forward the
whole cloud strategy, the wholescalability, contactless
(32:07):
payments, digital lending, etc.
Has been an interesting thing.
So I do strongly believe that Ihave a shit show magnet.
So I keep.
I always find myself in anindustry that's hit by something
massive, like I was a bank CIOwhen the financial crisis hit
back in 2008.
But and then I was in the telcowhen the dot-com boom and crash
(32:29):
hit.
But it's been interesting nowlooking back and seeing how much
that struggle needing to getthings right actually in the end
gives me a lot of energy andthen moving forward, how much it
has taught us.
So yeah, it's been aninteresting journey so far.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, and you know your answer about the mentorship
thing has been a very commonone, I think.
I think a lot of people, andmaybe the younger people that
are listening to this, thinkthat mentorship has to be this
kind of structured program andwhat the message seems to be
from most people is that itdoesn't Like you can learn
something and call it mentorship.
I mean, you know, it's yourhusband, it could be a book, it
(33:11):
could be someone from out of theindustry, it could be a
relative.
I mean, you don't have to feellike mentorship has to be this
kind of corporate structuredprogram.
Ask questions, be inquisitive,be curious, I mean, and you'll
have mentors, just out of that.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Exactly.
I think that's a really goodobservation and insight.
It's like I have alwaysbelieved in networking.
So just talking with people,when people reach out, answer,
comment, reach out because, asyou said, when you will need
help or advice, you will get it.
I don't know anyone that havenot received help.
(33:48):
Of course you can get a no, butnobody died of a no.
But what I do know is that thepeople that couldn't help me
wasn't because they didn't wantto, but they just either didn't
have the time at that point whenI needed it or they just didn't
have the advice.
But what they always did, theyalways tried to help me find,
then, someone who could, and Ithink that's the whole idea, as
(34:11):
you said, that it doesn't haveto be so structured, and I think
also from a founder perspective, I think that's a good advice.
Also when it comes to when youbuild a company, what I do see a
lot and hear a lot is thatpeople somehow think that
they're bored.
So when you start a company,then you need to have some
governance and then you startpicking a board and then the
(34:35):
earlier stages, you startpicking a board and you take
your mentors and then you'restuck with people in a board
that actually doesn't bringstuff to the table.
So I always try to give like myview on this is simple A board,
especially early days.
It's something you need to have.
It's a governance body, so tryto retain control as much as
(34:57):
possible.
But then have advisory boardswhere you can tell to the people
like hey, I've asked four ofyou or five of you to my
advisory board and it's asix-month or 12-month tenure or
whatever, because you willchange, the company will change,
so the advices and the inputsyou need will change.
(35:17):
So, having the same people andthen I also see that the world
is full with people who want togive advice.
You know the people who neverhave actually done it, but they
think they have.
They read the books and theysaw the movies and they want to
be part of something so bad thatthey feel that because of that,
they have something to give.
(35:38):
And I think that's the red flag.
So when you choose mentors oradvisors, whatever, you need to
trust your gut as well, becauseif it feels weird or the
chemistry doesn't work or likethe advice sounds really off,
then it probably is and it's notthe right, because no one
company is exactly the same.
(36:00):
And also the fun fact is thatthe company will change.
So, whether you like it or not,change is something that
happens all the time.
So don't try to buildstructures where you need to
spend time with people.
That won't bring anything.
And I had one really good pieceof advice from one very
(36:20):
successful Finnish scale-upfounder and we were talking
about board meetings and I saidhow often do you have board
meetings?
Because, especially if you'rean early-stage founder, you
think that you will need to haveboard meetings once a month and
then the company starts growing.
And that's again a consequencewhen you are confusing advisor
(36:41):
board and actual board.
And he said, like when you arebig enough, you don't want the
board to meet more than everyquarter because it takes, on
average, at least one week ofpreparation for you as the CEO,
at least one week of preparationfor you as the CEO.
So if you have, once a month, aboard meeting, you will only be
(37:02):
able to focus on execution forless than three weeks of that
month.
So try to have it at least lessthan once a quarter.
And I think that was a goodpiece of advice.
So just understanding that I'mconfusing and mixing advisory
items with must-have governanceitems, like understanding that
I'm confusing and mixingadvisory items with like must
have governance items, and Ithink those are the things that
I, at least, couldn't study whenI did my MBA.
(37:24):
I never heard about how do youactually build a company and, as
such, I think there's a lot ofgood books out there nowadays on
like by people who've actuallydone it, so I think those are
also good, good reads, but nottrying to do one-to-one, because
whatever you're building,exactly like that by exactly a
person like you, has never beendone before.
(37:44):
But there is a lot ofinspiration you can take from
others and at least try to avoidthe same mistakes that others
have already made.
Right right.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Well, if there's someone who's maybe just
graduating from college, orthey're in a different spot in
their career, different industry, and they want to move into the
payments industry, what's oneto solve?
If you have a clear problem youwant to solve, fine.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Then reach out to people in the industry that can
give a bit of like you know,input on what are the things you
should be looking at.
Because, again, rememberingwhen it's payments we talk about
money flows and people's data.
So not doing it right is not anoption, because otherwise the
consequence is going to be a bittoo bad.
But if that's just an industryso you've just graduated and
(38:40):
it's an industry you want towork at, I would say try to get
a job at an issuer or processoror somewhere, just to understand
what it looks from the inside.
Because looking back again at mycareer, having worked both
sides of the table, has at leasthelped me a lot to understand
how things work.
What are the viewpoints comingin and, as such, when I'm
(39:03):
selling our services andexplaining why it would be
beneficial to work with us, it'seasier when I've been on the
other side.
So, again, in general, justlearning to see other people's
viewpoints is a good way tostart, and then you might have
this idea and, if nothing else,you might also find like me the
(39:23):
co-founders and the technicalpeople.
I do think that the criticalfirst 20 people who joined
Enfuse to build it were peoplethat I had already worked with,
so I knew their capabilities.
And then, of course, it's beena growth journey and I'm really
interested.
That's the fun part, but Ithink that's probably, I would
say, what worked for me and whatI could at least recommend to
(39:46):
do.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Okay, okay, well, one last final kind of fun question
.
So when you look at your phone,what is the one app that's not
business related that you usethe most, and what does that say
about you?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
The one app that is not business related and what it
says about me, I would actuallysay it's Robes Rental, and it's
actually a Finnish startup whois scaling up, where they focus
on where you can rent reallynice clothes from nice brands,
where you can rent really niceclothes from nice brands.
So what I do is like I havealso a little bit of my own
(40:21):
wardrobe because, as I am inthis industry, there are some
galas I need to attend, etc.
And I like a nice dress, but itwould be stupid to just have it
hanging around in my wardrobe.
So I actually have a wardrobeon the Robes Rental app where I
can see people borrowing mydresses and then Robes takes
care of it, and I actually earna wardrobe on the ropes rental
app where I can see peopleborrowing my dresses and then
ropes takes care of it and Iactually earn a little bit of
money.
So I keep showing my husbandbecause he's sometimes a bit
(40:43):
like why do you have like thatexpensive handbags?
And I was like it's aninvestment.
Look, it's making me money.
So, yeah, that's actually yeah,but it's also a sustainability
aspect, as you said, likethere's a lot of people who buy
everything firsthand and I dothink, the circle and economy.
So it's a nice thing.
(41:04):
It makes me money and I canrent stuff that I only use a
little bit and as such, itwouldn't make sense to put that
much money on it.
So, yeah, I think that's theonly because otherwise all the
other apps are parking apps orWhatsApp or like it's more work
related.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Right, right, right.
Great Thanks for sharing that.
So, monica, it's been a greatconversation.
I kind of just want to open thefloor, see if there's anything
we haven't talked about that youwanted to touch on, and if not,
we can wrap up the show.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yeah, I think we covered the basics and the
details and the in-depth, and Ithink that your off-topic
questions are actually reallyfun, because many of the things
that you asked I've been askedbefore.
But I actually haven't beenasked this neither the dinner
part nor the app part before.
So thank you for that.
That was fun.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, good, good.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on the show today.
I know your time is veryvaluable, so again, thank you so
much for being here.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Thank, you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And to all you listeners out there.
I thank you for your time aswell, and until the next story.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andthis episode is part of our
Women Leaders in Payments month,something we do every year in
the month of July, and it's oneof my favorite times of the year
.
This year's theme is redefiningleadership, influence, impact
and innovation.
So those are some of the thingsyou're going to be hearing
about during the month of July.
So first, a special thank youto our sponsors.
(00:41):
Our title sponsor is WorldPay,our participating sponsors are
VisiPay and Payrock, and ourepisode sponsors are the
Clearinghouse and Genico andPaySafe.
So special thanks to thosecompanies.
Today, we're lucky enough tohave as our special guest Monica
Licama, and she is theco-founder and co-CEO of Enfuse.
(01:01):
So, monica, thank you so muchfor being here and welcome to
the show.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So let's start off with a little icebreaker.
So if you could have dinnerwith any woman in the world
could be past or present whowould that be and why and what
type of restaurant would you goto?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I would definitely choose Eleanor Roosevelt because
I do think that she did a lotof changes and, looking at that
era that she was living and thechallenges in the world, I think
that would be an interestingdialogue and there would be a
lot of learning opportunities.
Of course, being a Finn, Iwould take her to a Finnish
(01:38):
restaurant, a nice one, so thatwe can sit down and have a long
dinner.
So probably Olo, which is avery nice Michelin restaurant in
Helsinki, would be my place ofchoice.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Okay, awesome, and so let's talk a little bit now
about your background and career.
So maybe give us a snapshot ofyour career, maybe even where
you grew up, where you studied,and then what led you into
payments.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yes, so I'm born in Sweden to Finnish parents, so
I'm born in the north part ofSweden and did my first 20 years
on that side of the border.
So I'm up north from the borderof Finland and Sweden.
And then I met my to-be husbandand also decided to move to the
Finnish side.
(02:22):
I've been studying engineering,so been a developer during my
early career and then ended upin the telco industry.
So I became an adult during thedepression in Finland and then,
of course, as we started racingand we had those whole Nokia
years and what that did to theFinnish economy, and at that
(02:43):
point I was in the telcoindustry.
So I had a mobile networkoperator and lived the dot-com
boom and the crash.
And then I founded my firstcompany back in 2006, where I
ended up as a consultantbuilding a bank from scratch.
So in one of the biggestmerchants groups in Finland S
(03:04):
Group they had decided that theywant to build a bank within the
group because they had all therestaurants, the hotels, the
fuel stations, the food storesetc.
And making sure that they couldcontrol also funds would be a
good thing.
So when I went and built thebank I was the test manager
during the first phase of thebuild and then very much focused
(03:28):
on the card payments and makingsure that all the payments flew
correctly.
And then we did a successfullaunch back in 2007.
I had already two kids, so thenI was actually pregnant with my
third child.
And then, when the banklaunched, I then went on
maternity leave and that's whenthe bank CEO started calling and
(03:49):
saying like hey, monica, you'vebeen part of building this,
Wouldn't you want to come andmake sure it runs properly, also
in production mode?
And I said that would beinterested.
But what would the position be?
And then I was offered Iwouldn't say I was offered, I
was offered a developmentmanager role and I said no, not
interested.
And then they said, okay, butwould you come and become the
(04:10):
CIO, a management team member?
I said yeah, that would beinteresting.
So that's what I did, did thatfor some years, had my fourth
child and then in 2000, and,yeah, this is when you start
getting old-ish and probably, ifI look at my LinkedIn CV, I
would remember better the days.
But around 2015, I was 14, I wasdoing my executive MBA, because
(04:32):
I started apparently becoming abit bored as everything was
growing and very smooth, andthen I probably realized that
I'm a builder, so I like hardstuff, I like to really dive
into challenging and get shitdone, as I usually tend to say,
and at that point I was offereda position to start building
mobile payments and cardbusiness from scratch Not too
(04:54):
far from the bank though,because one of their service
providers in the core bank sidewas the one who offered me the
job.
So then I left the bank and Iheaded to the other side of the
table, the service provider side.
We built the processing issueprocessor side, and that's when
I met my to-be co-founder,denise, and I did my executive
MBA.
(05:14):
And then I wanted to do more,but the owners of that business
they were happy with focusing onthe Nordics, in particular
Sweden and Finland, and for methat was a bit too small, a bit
too easy, apparently.
And then I quit my job, did mythesis and then started thinking
of what to do when I grow upand gravitating a lot through
(05:37):
becoming an entrepreneur, likecontrolling or at least
influencing my destiny.
And as I had four kids alreadythen, and I had a lot of
mortgage to pay, and at thatpoint none of us me or my
husband weren't very wealthy, soto say, money-wise, and I took
a job, so I ran a small projectat a traditional bank and during
(05:58):
that time I was then presentedwith a proposal that if I would
want to come and build a newfinancial institution from
scratch, and I was like, no,I've done that before, but how
are you going to run theinfrastructure?
And they were like, yeah, well,we want something really good
and really scalable.
We are going to do consumerproducts and we're going to do
(06:19):
closed loop fleet product, andwe want to do it in three
countries, three currencies, twotime zones and having also
revolving credit.
And I was like, yeah, thatsounds like hard enough.
And that's how then Enfuse wasborn, and that's pretty much.
And then now, for the past nineyears, I've been building
Enfuse and we've been scaling.
I think now we're I actuallydon't know how many countries
(06:42):
we're alive in, but we havearound 24 million cardholders
globally that we are workingwith, and that's been where we
are scaling now.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, a quick, another fun kind of question.
Then we'll get back to Infuse.
If you're asked to come onstage, what would your hype song
be?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
If I would be asked to come on stage.
Well, I do like the Top Gunanthem a lot and I really love
the Top Gun movie the originalone but I also like Panic at the
Disco, like High Hopes.
Those are definitely two of mygo-to songs.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's great because you know, obviously we're doing
14 or so episodes this month andI've recorded almost all of
them and I've yet to have twopeople say the same thing.
So it's kind of fun to ask thequestion.
All right, well, let's go backto Enfuse, Maybe talk about sort
of the company a little bitmore, maybe a little bit about
what you do on a daily basis andwhat excites you about what
(07:35):
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, well, what we do as Enfuse is that we enable
different types of players toissue cards, and what that means
in practice is that we'repredominantly focused on banks
and lending, so enabling banksand lenders to issue either for
debit processing or then alsofor lending revolving credit
(07:56):
products.
But then I think, one of thekey big verticals where we have,
from a technical side, also ourlicenses we are an EMI under
the Finnish SupervisoryAuthority and also the UK FCA
and it means that we can enablebig players to issue cards.
So we take the whole burden ofthe issuing, not just the
technical processing.
So we enable players likeOctopus Electroverse, which is a
(08:20):
big UK and European energycompany, to issue credit cards
to their EV customers.
And then we have banks that weprocess for, and then we also do
a lot of import and other typesof, let's say, card-related
products.
So, for example, to the Finnishgovernment, we enable them to
issue the cards both for theFinnish Defence Forces but also
(08:42):
for the refugees and socialbenefits cards.
So it's a pretty broadportfolio but very much focused
on banks and lenders.
And then EV fleet mobility,fuel providers transitioning to
EV, then expense management andemployee benefits.
And you ask what does a typicalday look like?
(09:02):
I have no idea.
I don't think any day is thesame, and I think that's also
why I feel that, even thoughI've been doing this for the
past nine years, we're onlygetting started.
So I think when I look back atmy career because I do believe
that career is something thathappens, whether I like it or
not then how it looks like I can, of course, influence.
But looking back at my career,it's taken an average four to
(09:29):
five years.
So when I start building ordoing something to that I feel
that OK, now I kind of hit theambition feeling and then I need
to move on and we then choose,of course, as we want to be
number one in the world and verymuch focused on becoming number
one in Europe.
Now, of course, we also enableprocessing outside of Europe, so
both in Latam in Brazil andthen also in the Middle East,
(09:52):
but our focus is really to be anumber one player within Europe,
because we do think that, ifyou look at the European market,
we have different languages,different cultures, different
currencies, so it's a verycomplex market.
So succeeding here is a goodbaseline for then expanding
outside.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about
leadership and lessons learned.
So over the course, I would saythe last 10 or 15 years,
leadership has changed a goodbit.
I mean, covid drove some ofthat, but it was being changed
anyway.
So what do you consider modernleadership and how do you sort
of embody that on a daily basis?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's a good question.
I personally do think that myleadership style has probably
not fundamentally changed.
Of course it's evolved becausethe older I get, the more I
learn about stuff.
Of course it impacts in how Ilead.
But I think openness, honestyand trust, like building trust,
has always been a key fundamentin how I am.
(10:54):
But I also understand it'schallenging because the way I am
is I'm very direct, I don'tbelieve in political games, even
though I understand thatthere's a lot of politics in a
lot of things, and I thinkthat's also probably one of the
big reasons why I decided tobecome a founder and build a
company that I never worked atbecause of that.
(11:16):
But then understanding thatwhen you get a lot of different
people with a lot of differentbackgrounds, with their biases,
depending on where they comefrom, what cultural background
they have, it is going to bechallenging.
But I do think that in order tostrive and grow something big,
it's really important to behonest and I think it's to get
(11:38):
to know people, because youreally don't know anyone else's
struggles unless you walk a bitin their shoes, and the only way
to do that is communication andlooking back.
I think communication is thehardest thing, and people is the
hardest thing, and if I look, Itend to joke that I don't like
people and I'm like waiting forAI to come and, you know, make
(12:00):
everyone redundant,understanding, of course, that
that's not going to happen.
But what I mean is that Ireally like working with smart
people, like people who want todo good and who have integrity,
and I think those are the thingsI hope also to leave behind as
some sort of a legacy, and Iactually wrote my obituary some
(12:23):
time ago because I actually had,I think I read somewhere and I
don't, unfortunately, rememberexactly where, but people focus
too much on like how does my CVlook and what can I do to impact
, instead of maybe focusing onlike when I'm not here anymore,
what do I want people to sayabout me?
And when you write that downand then you look at it and
(12:45):
think about like, in order forme to be remembered this way,
what should I do every day?
And, of course, being mercifulto yourself that you know
everyone has bad days, but Ithink the intent matters and I
keep saying it also to mychildren.
But there are two words thatwill really help you throughout
(13:06):
your career.
But the magic only happens ifyou mean it, and that's I'm
sorry.
And then can you please help me?
So, asking for advice and helpand then making an apology if
you fucked up, I think thosewill carry, but they only work
if you mean it, because I dothink that us people, in the end
of the day, we have fortunately, this born quality of sniffing
(13:31):
out people that are not sincere.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Right right.
Well, when you step back andlook at your life or your career
or both, have you had thosesort of defining moments?
I call them like aha moments,but those moments in time that
really maybe changed thetrajectory of your career, your
life.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yes, definitely, I think.
In general, of course, I wouldsay, meeting my to-be husband
when I was young.
I was fortunate enough to findthe love of my life when I was
19.
And that finding a person thatis very grounded and still very
ambitious.
With him, we left the Northbecause there weren't very much
(14:10):
jobs and started building ourlife, and he's also a partner in
a building company and they'vebeen building that for a long
time.
So having that is, of course,one thing that I strongly
believe influenced the way I amtoday and where I come on my
journey.
And then, of course, if I lookat other moments, yeah, I think
during my younger years,especially working very
(14:33):
male-dominated industries, beinga tech person myself, there
were a couple of moments in timewhere I decided that, based on
how I was treated, I would nottolerate that.
I remember I was a very youngdeveloper in a really high fly
consultant company.
I was so happy and proud tohave landed that job.
(14:55):
And then I was a juniordeveloper in a project and then
the project director or whatever, came and something had gone
wrong, and I don't even rememberwhat it was, but he started
screaming at me that it was myfault.
And then there was this ladywho was secretary and she was
like you can't be like that.
You can't, on a juniordeveloper, start screaming on
(15:16):
something, and I think whathappened then I went to the
bathroom, I cried my balls outand then decided I'm never going
to tolerate being pissed onthat way.
But I also learned that itcould have been saved if he
would actually apologize, whichhe never did, and I think that
was a learning moment for me hownot to treat people, so I
(15:36):
didn't want me to be treatedthat way.
And then, of course, I thinkfrom a career perspective, when
I was part as a consultantbuilding S-Bank in S-Group, and
then we went live and it waslike we worked our asses off,
like seriously, because the onlything that couldn't change was
the timeline, because there wasa legislation change and the
(15:57):
group would have lost a lot ofmoney, so like the timeline had
to be, you know, strict, andthen we worked a lot and that
pride of succeeding together andthen being asked to join the
team to then clean up, kind ofthe things that we did, I think
those have been a very pivotalmoment also in my career, like
really seeing that if you workyour ass off.
(16:19):
Together you can really makebig things happen.
And then, of course, in Enfusehistory, when we became the
first one to put processing inpublic cloud, nobody else had
done it and we were like, ok,but that's the only way to scale
globally, because I wanted tobuild a company that was better,
faster and globally scalable.
And then we did that andsucceeded.
(16:40):
And today it's kind of de factostranded.
If you're not cloud native,everyone is like that's weird.
But having that courage to dothat, I don't think.
If I look back now, it wasn'tlike, oh, oh, my God, are we
going to do it?
It was like, okay, this makessense, let's do it.
But of course, looking back now, as you asked, those have been
those key moments.
(17:01):
And I think then the last, maybekey moment, at least for now in
my career, was when the war inUkraine started and UNICEF US
contacted Visa US, who contactedVisa Europe, who then contacted
us, and it was a Thursdaymorning.
We got an email and I think itwas like in March, so the war
(17:21):
had been going on for maybe amonth or so and and like the
refugees were pouring out and wewere asked like, could you help
us to issue a relief card so wecould put cards, money on the
card and give them out at theblue spot.
So when the refugees come,because that was a big challenge
(17:41):
, like instead of going withcash or IOUs and stuff and I
remember that Thursday morningwe sit down with Denise and we
decided like of course we can.
And then Thursday afternoon wedecided we're going to do it for
free.
And then by Friday morning wehad gathered 100,000 plastics
from our card manufacturer as adonation.
(18:01):
And then during the weekend weworked night and day to get
everything done.
And then on Monday when weinformed that we can ship the
cards by Wednesday to the Polishborder, we got an answer like
no, no, we just asked if youcould, because they weren't
ready to take on the process.
They didn't believe that anyonecould do it, because it
normally takes like six to eightto 12 months and we did it over
(18:24):
the weekend.
But what that did internally tothe company still makes me
really proud, because we showedabove and all to ourselves that
when things matter and we knowour shit, we can really get
things done.
And of course after that we'vedone a lot of relief programs as
well.
But those have been thosedefining moments throughout my
(18:46):
career.
When I look back, that has then, of course, fueled also to want
to do even more and become evenbetter.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Well, what do you think is something that women
leaders bring to the table thatour payments industry needs more
of?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I think, in general, diversity is important.
So whether you sit or standpeeing, I don't think it's
matter.
I think that there are manydifferent types matter.
So if I look again at end use,I think we are around 50-50,
male and female, we are like 20plus nationalities, et cetera.
Culture matters.
What that means is that wesolve problems better when there
(19:25):
are more views on what theproblem actually is.
And I think that doesn't justspeak for the payment industry,
but definitely in general.
And of course it by then wouldstart gathering facts and
figures Like out of thehouseholds making payments,
women are the ones that do themajority of decisions of where
(19:46):
money is deployed, meaning itwould be stupid if women were
part of designing the solutionsthat they are actually the ones
using.
So I do think it's important tohave diversity in general, and
what that needs to get there isequity.
So I do think that a lot ofguys who have done a great job
work their asses off.
(20:08):
I love to see even moreenabling others to thrive,
because I do think that by thatwe can become even stronger.
And then to us women, I do hopethat we can learn much more
from the guys to support eachother instead of competing with
each other, because in the endof the day, it's not a one
winner takes all.
(20:28):
Everything that we collectivelydo better makes things better,
okay, well, let's talk a littlebit about innovation and impact.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
So, as you know, our industry is changing very fast,
very innovative industry.
How do you, as a leader, stayinnovative?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Understanding problems.
I think, in general, focus hasbeen a big part.
So, in order to become the bestI always talk about, I want to
win the Olympics.
Big part.
So, in order to become the bestI always talk about, I want to
win the Olympics.
And it's very hard to win theOlympics unless you choose what
do you want to win the Olympicsfor?
Like it's decathlon or rowingor whatever, or a combination.
(21:05):
But you need to understandbecause if you try to do
everything, you become very thinand you become mediocre and
average.
So focus really leads to that,and what that means in practice
is that in order to innovate, weneed to understand a couple of
dimensions.
First of all, who are ourcustomers, who are the customers
we want to serve and what aretheir challenges.
So how do we help them?
(21:25):
But also somehow understandingthat, especially when it comes
to the banking and lending side,and then the fleet fuel
mobility, ev transition,employee benefit, etc.
Those businesses are veryfocused on solving a certain
problem, which means that it'sour responsibility, in order for
us to stay relevant, toactually understand that, based
(21:47):
on the whole technicalinfrastructure, our capabilities
, the compliance and securityitems, what can we help them
with so that they can becomeeven better technical
infrastructure, our capabilities, the compliance and security
items.
What can we help them with sothat they can become even better
?
And I know it's fortunate, but,as you said, it's a very fast
moving industry, also from a badperspective, meaning like with
the introduction of more AIcomes more deep fakes.
(22:08):
There's a lot of humantrafficking, money laundering,
terrorist financing a lot of badstuff.
But also understanding thatpaying with cash is even worse.
So how can we enable, throughdigital payments, much more
security, you know, dignitythrough payments, et cetera.
So making sure that theunbanked becomes banked.
(22:29):
How do we do financialinclusion?
So, in the end, understandingthe challenges and I do think
like trying to solve like thisbig, hairy, audacious goal, like
really understanding somethingreally big as a problem, because
I do think that if we onlyfocus on small problems, we tend
to lose the innovation, becausethen we do the same thing a bit
differently and that's notinnovative, but like looking at
(22:52):
something really big andunderstanding, of course, then
legislational shifts coming, andalso now I mean like look at
the news.
Unfortunately, the world isfilled with problems to solve
now more than ever.
So I don't think thatinnovation should or will stop.
So it's a constant being awareand awake in order to move
(23:14):
forward.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
What's one change or trend in the industry that
you're keeping a close eye on?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Of course, legislation is very important
and for us, one of thechallenges that I see that I'm
looking at is, of course, thiswhole geopolitical turbulence,
which means that there's a lotof need and wants and wishes to
run on-prem again sovereignclouds, etc.
(23:42):
So they're like being European,and especially from Finland and
the Nordics it's an interestingviewpoint on seeing the term
where we have China, we have US,then we want to be sovereign.
So I think there's a lot oftechnical restrictions coming up
in legislations that are basedout of fear.
So trying to tackle that andnot being part of building
(24:06):
something stupid just becausesome political weirdo thinks
it's scary, but also like makingsure we can explain how we
govern and how we protect thedata, because what we do is
still like it's payment data, soit's like personal data and
then it's your money, so theonly thing that it's equally
important is health data.
(24:27):
So I think, in that sense, it'sa big challenge looking at that
.
Then, in general, of course,I'm very interested in
understanding where this wholeenvironmental aspects are going.
What is happening actuallyglobally when it comes to now
focus on the environmentalaspects and reporting, etc.
Like trying to reallystrengthen the narrative, like
(24:50):
compliance and regulationreporting is good, but it's not
there as a purpose itself, thatthere is actually something
bigger on the other side and weshould actually, as businesses,
focus on solving the challengesand, as such, we should meet the
reporting requirements.
If I look at ourself again, weare under the payment card
(25:11):
industry data security standard.
There are standards andreporting requirements to the
right and left, and I alwayssaid like when we are one step
ahead, when we really focus onnot meeting the bar but
exceeding it, it actually meansthat we will be compliant to
anything at any given time, andthat should be business as usual
.
(25:31):
But the way we do it should befocused again on solving actual
problems.
And I do think that now I canfinally start seeing the impact,
with the bigger brands wantingto work with us because they
can't afford to jeopardize theirreputation, which means that
they have not had the courage todo anything innovative because
(25:54):
their reputation has been soneeded to be safeguarded.
So working with someone oursize has felt like yeah, yeah,
but we can't do it.
And now, finally, because wehave proven over and over again
that we actually take thesethings really seriously, and now
, as our laters, we launched theFortitude Pledge, where we
actually pledged the paymentindustry players to sign up and
(26:18):
commit to doing whatever theycan to eradicate human
trafficking, money launderingand terrorist financing in their
services.
So it's not about being perfect, but it is about raising the
bar and, as such, becomingbetter than just like trying to
get by with the standard minimumrequirements.
(26:38):
So I think mediocrity issomething that I really dislike,
whether it's in people orcompanies.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right, totally makes sense.
So how do you think femaleleaders can influence the future
direction of payments?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I would actually say more like how can leaders
influence?
But I think, with women, ofcourse, if and when we
collaborate more together and asI said earlier, that when we
realize that you know therearen't a limited set of seats at
the table and if you feel likethat, then fucking make your own
table.
So like don't go for excuses.
(27:14):
Like if you have a mission andyou want to change something for
the better, reach out, ask foradvice, ask for help and you
should get it.
Like I don't feel that I haveever been hit by a glass ceiling
.
I have been hit by ambitionceiling, but that's gender
irrelevant.
So people who are good enough,that's boring, but I do think
(27:36):
that as women, by really helpingeach other collaborate better,
we will change the wholeindustry for the better, as
there is still so few of us and,as such, the services are very
built from a male perspective,because, in the end of the day,
whatever you feel that thingsare, there is some differences
(27:58):
in male and female and, ofcourse, understanding that once
you become older, what I'veactually seen that I don't like
with us women and I don't thinkit's the individual's fault it's
just something to be mindful ofand also when us to support is
this thinking that you have tobe perfect in order to start.
(28:18):
You know, like when we startedlooking at at hiring more people
and we put out ads and werealized that we got really few
female applicants, because werealized that and I think
there's probably a lot ofstudies around this but women
have this tendency to actuallyread application and think like,
(28:39):
ah, I haven't done that, Idon't have this experience, I
don't know that.
And then, from a maleperspective, ah, interesting
company, I would love to workthere, I'll apply.
And I think if we could getmore of that and I do think it
comes from earlier stages, likeearlier in your life, where in
general, girls are expected tobe and behave nice and boys will
(28:59):
be boys.
And of course, it's often usmothers who impose that
stereotype because of our bias.
And when we start changing that, that's how equality becomes
and that's what I really hope tosee more of in the world.
So also us women taking ourdestiny in our hands.
And then, of course, I dounderstand that I come from the
(29:22):
Nordics, very privileged to beborn in a very equal society.
So I usually say that if youare European, especially from
the Nordics.
You have no excuses, especiallyfrom the Nordics you have no
excuses.
Then, of course, I understandthat, depending on where in the
world you are, it's going to bemuch harder to break some of the
biases, but I do think that'simportant to be leading for
(29:45):
change.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Well, let's talk a little bit about mentorship.
So, over your career, have youhad mentors and, if so, how have
they influenced you?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
That's a good question.
I would say, like, my initialfeeling is no, I haven't.
But then it depends on what doyou put into the word mentor.
So have I had people?
I discuss problems, understandperspective?
Yes, I am very extroverted, soI do talk a lot with people and
(30:16):
also try to listen, at leastmore than I talk, which doesn't
always end very well, but Ican't say like, okay, these are
my two mentors.
But looking back again at mycareer, of course there are
different people throughoutdifferent stages that have been
sounding boards, if that wouldmake sense as a word, and here
(30:37):
again a lot is my husband.
So again, as we both are, let'ssay, different personalities,
but share the same type ofambition and work ethics, we
talk a lot about the challenges,even though he's in the actual
construction industry, so hebuilds actual buildings.
I do consider myself a builder,so I just build something that's
(31:00):
a bit more intangible, but it'sthe same problems, it's the
same challenges, with being indifferent phases, being hit by
different challenges, and Ialways said that you know, shit
hits the fan every day.
That shit hits the fan everyday.
So the only thing I can do isprepare for the things that I
want to prepare and thentolerate and react to the ones I
(31:21):
couldn't foresee.
And I think one of the biggestshit shows that hit was COVID.
I mean, that was seriouslysomething that, even though,
looking back at my own careerbeing in the telco industry
doing a lot with people's dataand transactions, being in the
telco industry doing a lot withpeople's data and transactions
and then in the banking industrynever have I ever been looking
(31:43):
at an operative risk that wouldbe a pandemic.
And then just to see how theworld just stopped and people
actually died, that was weirdand now it feels like that's
forever.
And then how much that'schanged.
Also, especially in the paymentsindustry pushed forward the
whole cloud strategy, the wholescalability, contactless
(32:07):
payments, digital lending, etc.
Has been an interesting thing.
So I do strongly believe that Ihave a shit show magnet.
So I keep.
I always find myself in anindustry that's hit by something
massive, like I was a bank CIOwhen the financial crisis hit
back in 2008.
But and then I was in the telcowhen the dot-com boom and crash
(32:29):
hit.
But it's been interesting nowlooking back and seeing how much
that struggle needing to getthings right actually in the end
gives me a lot of energy andthen moving forward, how much it
has taught us.
So yeah, it's been aninteresting journey so far.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, and you know your answer about the mentorship
thing has been a very commonone, I think.
I think a lot of people, andmaybe the younger people that
are listening to this, thinkthat mentorship has to be this
kind of structured program andwhat the message seems to be
from most people is that itdoesn't Like you can learn
something and call it mentorship.
I mean, you know, it's yourhusband, it could be a book, it
(33:11):
could be someone from out of theindustry, it could be a
relative.
I mean, you don't have to feellike mentorship has to be this
kind of corporate structuredprogram.
Ask questions, be inquisitive,be curious, I mean, and you'll
have mentors, just out of that.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Exactly.
I think that's a really goodobservation and insight.
It's like I have alwaysbelieved in networking.
So just talking with people,when people reach out, answer,
comment, reach out because, asyou said, when you will need
help or advice, you will get it.
I don't know anyone that havenot received help.
(33:48):
Of course you can get a no, butnobody died of a no.
But what I do know is that thepeople that couldn't help me
wasn't because they didn't wantto, but they just either didn't
have the time at that point whenI needed it or they just didn't
have the advice.
But what they always did, theyalways tried to help me find,
then, someone who could, and Ithink that's the whole idea, as
(34:11):
you said, that it doesn't haveto be so structured, and I think
also from a founder perspective, I think that's a good advice.
Also when it comes to when youbuild a company, what I do see a
lot and hear a lot is thatpeople somehow think that
they're bored.
So when you start a company,then you need to have some
governance and then you startpicking a board and then the
(34:35):
earlier stages, you startpicking a board and you take
your mentors and then you'restuck with people in a board
that actually doesn't bringstuff to the table.
So I always try to give like myview on this is simple A board,
especially early days.
It's something you need to have.
It's a governance body, so tryto retain control as much as
(34:57):
possible.
But then have advisory boardswhere you can tell to the people
like hey, I've asked four ofyou or five of you to my
advisory board and it's asix-month or 12-month tenure or
whatever, because you willchange, the company will change,
so the advices and the inputsyou need will change.
(35:17):
So, having the same people andthen I also see that the world
is full with people who want togive advice.
You know the people who neverhave actually done it, but they
think they have.
They read the books and theysaw the movies and they want to
be part of something so bad thatthey feel that because of that,
they have something to give.
(35:38):
And I think that's the red flag.
So when you choose mentors oradvisors, whatever, you need to
trust your gut as well, becauseif it feels weird or the
chemistry doesn't work or likethe advice sounds really off,
then it probably is and it's notthe right, because no one
company is exactly the same.
(36:00):
And also the fun fact is thatthe company will change.
So, whether you like it or not,change is something that
happens all the time.
So don't try to buildstructures where you need to
spend time with people.
That won't bring anything.
And I had one really good pieceof advice from one very
(36:20):
successful Finnish scale-upfounder and we were talking
about board meetings and I saidhow often do you have board
meetings?
Because, especially if you'rean early-stage founder, you
think that you will need to haveboard meetings once a month and
then the company starts growing.
And that's again a consequencewhen you are confusing advisor
(36:41):
board and actual board.
And he said, like when you arebig enough, you don't want the
board to meet more than everyquarter because it takes, on
average, at least one week ofpreparation for you as the CEO,
at least one week of preparationfor you as the CEO.
So if you have, once a month, aboard meeting, you will only be
(37:02):
able to focus on execution forless than three weeks of that
month.
So try to have it at least lessthan once a quarter.
And I think that was a goodpiece of advice.
So just understanding that I'mconfusing and mixing advisory
items with must-have governanceitems, like understanding that
I'm confusing and mixingadvisory items with like must
have governance items, and Ithink those are the things that
I, at least, couldn't study whenI did my MBA.
(37:24):
I never heard about how do youactually build a company and, as
such, I think there's a lot ofgood books out there nowadays on
like by people who've actuallydone it, so I think those are
also good, good reads, but nottrying to do one-to-one, because
whatever you're building,exactly like that by exactly a
person like you, has never beendone before.
(37:44):
But there is a lot ofinspiration you can take from
others and at least try to avoidthe same mistakes that others
have already made.
Right right.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Well, if there's someone who's maybe just
graduating from college, orthey're in a different spot in
their career, different industry, and they want to move into the
payments industry, what's oneto solve?
If you have a clear problem youwant to solve, fine.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Then reach out to people in the industry that can
give a bit of like you know,input on what are the things you
should be looking at.
Because, again, rememberingwhen it's payments we talk about
money flows and people's data.
So not doing it right is not anoption, because otherwise the
consequence is going to be a bittoo bad.
But if that's just an industryso you've just graduated and
(38:40):
it's an industry you want towork at, I would say try to get
a job at an issuer or processoror somewhere, just to understand
what it looks from the inside.
Because looking back again at mycareer, having worked both
sides of the table, has at leasthelped me a lot to understand
how things work.
What are the viewpoints comingin and, as such, when I'm
(39:03):
selling our services andexplaining why it would be
beneficial to work with us, it'seasier when I've been on the
other side.
So, again, in general, justlearning to see other people's
viewpoints is a good way tostart, and then you might have
this idea and, if nothing else,you might also find like me the
(39:23):
co-founders and the technicalpeople.
I do think that the criticalfirst 20 people who joined
Enfuse to build it were peoplethat I had already worked with,
so I knew their capabilities.
And then, of course, it's beena growth journey and I'm really
interested.
That's the fun part, but Ithink that's probably, I would
say, what worked for me and whatI could at least recommend to
(39:46):
do.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Okay, okay, well, one last final kind of fun question
.
So when you look at your phone,what is the one app that's not
business related that you usethe most, and what does that say
about you?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
The one app that is not business related and what it
says about me, I would actuallysay it's Robes Rental, and it's
actually a Finnish startup whois scaling up, where they focus
on where you can rent reallynice clothes from nice brands,
where you can rent really niceclothes from nice brands.
So what I do is like I havealso a little bit of my own
(40:21):
wardrobe because, as I am inthis industry, there are some
galas I need to attend, etc.
And I like a nice dress, but itwould be stupid to just have it
hanging around in my wardrobe.
So I actually have a wardrobeon the Robes Rental app where I
can see people borrowing mydresses and then Robes takes
care of it, and I actually earna wardrobe on the ropes rental
app where I can see peopleborrowing my dresses and then
ropes takes care of it and Iactually earn a little bit of
money.
So I keep showing my husbandbecause he's sometimes a bit
(40:43):
like why do you have like thatexpensive handbags?
And I was like it's aninvestment.
Look, it's making me money.
So, yeah, that's actually yeah,but it's also a sustainability
aspect, as you said, likethere's a lot of people who buy
everything firsthand and I dothink, the circle and economy.
So it's a nice thing.
(41:04):
It makes me money and I canrent stuff that I only use a
little bit and as such, itwouldn't make sense to put that
much money on it.
So, yeah, I think that's theonly because otherwise all the
other apps are parking apps orWhatsApp or like it's more work
related.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Right, right, right.
Great Thanks for sharing that.
So, monica, it's been a greatconversation.
I kind of just want to open thefloor, see if there's anything
we haven't talked about that youwanted to touch on, and if not,
we can wrap up the show.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yeah, I think we covered the basics and the
details and the in-depth, and Ithink that your off-topic
questions are actually reallyfun, because many of the things
that you asked I've been askedbefore.
But I actually haven't beenasked this neither the dinner
part nor the app part before.
So thank you for that.
That was fun.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, good, good.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on the show today.
I know your time is veryvaluable, so again, thank you so
much for being here.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Thank, you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And to all you listeners out there.
I thank you for your time aswell, and until the next story.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.