September 3, 2024 • 28 mins
Can introverts truly excel in leadership and negotiation roles typically dominated by extroverts? My dear friend, Sherisse Hawkins, an extreme introvert, joins me today to uncover surprising truths about how introverts and ambiverts often outperform extroverts in these high-stakes arenas. Through our contrasting experiences—Sharice's mindful approach and my high-energy style—we reveal the power of authenticity and the unique strengths that introverts bring to leadership positions. You’ll hear personal stories and eye-opening research that challenge traditional business norms, demonstrating that introverts are more than capable of thriving in environments that seem built for extroverts.
In this episode, we talk about the following:
1. Differences between introverts and extroverts in business settings.
2. The success of ambiverts in sales and negotiations.
3. Challenging personality stereotypes and adapting communication styles.
Connect with Sherisse:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherissehawkins/
https://pagedip.com/
_____________________
🚀 Ready to Get What You Want?
Listening is great, but real change happens when you take action. Join my newsletter for exclusive negotiation strategies, scripts, and real-world case studies you won’t hear on the podcast. Sign up now at www.negotiationlove.com—it takes 10 seconds and will change how you view and negotiate forever.
📖 Continue Your Professional Growth with These Resources:
Get my Book: The Art of Everyday Negotiation without Manipulation:
www.susietomenchok.com/the-art-of-everyday-negotiation
Work With Me: Speaking, corporate training, and executive coaching:
www.susietomenchok.com/services
_____________________
Remember, negotiation is more than a skill—it’s a mindset.
💕Susie
www.linkedin.com/in/susietomenchok
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's challenge your assumptions about what it means
to be an introvert versus anextrovert.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Stay right here.
Welcome to the Leaders withLeverage podcast.
I'm your host and negotiationexpert, suzy Tomichuk.
It's time to be your ownadvocate and confidently
navigate what you want out ofyour career, not simply the next
role or additional compensation.
I want to show you thatnegotiation happens every day in
(00:27):
plain sight, so you need to beready to opt in and say yes with
confidence.
This happens by adopting anegotiator's mindset, and I'll
show you how, together withother business leaders, you'll
learn the essential skills andshifts in mindset you need to
know.
You will be empowered tonaturally advocate for yourself
(00:48):
and grow your professionalskills, and while you're
practicing along the way, you'llincrease your confidence and
gain respect, all while you'regrowing into that future leader
you're poised to be, and whenyou face a high stakes situation
, you're ready, no matter howhigh those stakes are.
So let's do it.
Let's lead with leverage.
(01:14):
Hey, welcome to Leaders withLeverage.
I am glad that you made thechoice to be here today, because
I am with one of my favoritepeople in the whole wide world.
I'm not just saying that withone of my favorite people in the
whole wide world, I'm not justsaying that, sharice Hawkins, we
(01:34):
have been business alliestogether.
We are friends.
We have shared hotel rooms.
We'll just start out TMI all ofit right here.
So welcome Sharice.
I'm so glad to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's so fun and one of the reasons I wanted to have
you is because we're verydifferent and we're really
different in a lot of ways, andone of the ones that's so
blatantly different about us isI am like on the extrovert to
the max.
In fact, when I got tested, Iwas all the way over on max, and
(02:04):
you are just the opposite.
In fact, you got tested too andyou were all the way over on
the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
It was just like a blip on the very edge, just a
blip.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Me too.
Me too, and what's sointeresting to me about this
concept is that in negotiationsthey looked at sales leaders in
the research and they looked atwho are most successful and at
first blush you might thinkextroverts, of course, are
better salespeople, they aremore gregarious and they build
(02:35):
the relationships.
But what they found wereamoeverts were the most
successful and then introvertssecond and extroverts last.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Isn't that interesting Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, and it's about telling the story and making
sure the other person feelsunderstood.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I think that's the key right there.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Feeling very understood.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I've just been experimenting with that more in
my own business and the pausingand making sure that the person
feels understood and repeatingback just a little bit about
what they said.
As simple as that is and ashard as that is sometimes, that
little ninja trick has really,really changed the dynamics of
(03:25):
the conversations I've had andI'm talking in the last, I don't
know since the beginning ofthis year, so a relatively
recent approach has paid bigdividends.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And what's the evidence of that?
How do you know it's been moresuccessful for you?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
The pace of the conversation and the pace of the
engagement.
It feels like you build thatrapport faster, you get the
trust factor faster and then youcan move to the next step.
And even if that next step isno, you get to that place faster
.
And in business, time iseverything.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
As a natural introvert, I'm surprised that
this has to be such a mindfulpractice for you, because I
would think I was talking tomyself.
To slow down, ask questions,pause, but you've had to be more
mindful of this.
Is it just the opposite of thatyou?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
know.
I think there's a little bit ofan expectation.
I don't know what the studiesshow, but I've heard that.
You know, we live in a veryextroverted society and so
there's this expectation,especially as a business leader,
to be an extrovert.
So it's like you're unlearningwhat you learn, to try and be
(04:47):
more what is expected, but itreally wasn't the right.
It's like you zigzag back andforth.
So I think for many years I wasposing as an extrovert.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So interesting because you were an executive
and led big teams and now a CEO,and so you had to kind of fake
that.
Yeah, and it wasn't the rightdecision.
Wow, what would you dodifferently?
Would you have shown updifferently back then?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I want to say yes, because I do think that the more
authentic you are, the morepeople can feel that and the
trust and businesses arounddoing relationships with people
that you know and you trust.
We've both been in business fora long time, so I really don't
know if I'm being honest, ifback then, when there was so
much pressure to be in this, thestudies hadn't been done yet,
(05:45):
the book Quiet hadn't beenwritten yet, all of that, I
don't know if I would have hadthe opportunity to really lean
into it.
I think we've got moreknowledge now and it would be so
I'm just being honest.
I'd like to say, yeah, sure, Iwould have done that, but I
don't know if I really couldhave swam upstream.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I would have done that, but I don't know if I
really could have swam upstreamso interesting.
I hadn't really thought abouthow much I'll have to really
think about that, because howmuch of me just being a natural
extrovert allowed me to justshow up and not have to fake
that.
Not as much energy for me as itwas for you back in the day.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So much energy for me as it was for you back in the
day.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So much energy, so much energy.
All right, so when we come back, let's pull some stories about
how being an extrovert for me,how being an introvert for you,
what's an example of when, in anegotiation or a difficult
conversation, you leaned intothat or faked it, and what was
the results for you?
So stay here with me, sharice,because we're going to be right
(06:49):
back.
Hey, suzy, here, thought I'dpop in.
I wanted to let you know.
I've been an executive coachfor over a decade.
I work with executives and theycall me their silent partner,
because I help them increasetheir confidence when they're
facing really difficultdecisions.
If you'd like to see if we're agood fit, head over to
suzytomichukcom and fill out anapplication.
(07:11):
I'd love to hear from you.
Okay, so we're back, and Iwanted you to tell a story,
charisse, and just to frame itfor you and for the listeners.
It's around high stakes, andhigh stakes doesn't mean it has
to be an official negotiation.
It's a situation that ismeaningful to you, one that you
really want to be thoughtfularound, having an outcome that
(07:33):
is beneficial to you and theother side.
So what comes to mind for you?
Share with us an experience ora story.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That's a good question.
Let me think a sec.
Well, I think around justleadership and being a technical
leader, the model can often belet's have a big team meeting
and talk about it as a group andbrainstorm, and you know, all
those are great things and theyprovide a lot of energy and a
lot of creativity.
Don't necessarily draw out theintroverts in the group, and I
(08:04):
found that in combination withthat activity maybe not as much
having one-on-ones I had thisapproach where I would go it's
called Wednesday check-ins and Iwould go around and talk to
everybody on my team and it wasa lot of people, so it took all
day long and just spend sometime with them one-on-one and
(08:27):
ask a few questions, find outwhat was on their mind, and it
allowed each person to take thetime that needed.
Sometimes it would be longer orshorter depending on what they
were going, what they weredealing with, but everyone loved
the ability to have thatconnection and to really be
heard, like we talked aboutbefore.
And then I'd take that back andput it together in the big
(08:51):
master plan and so our projectswould come in on time because
there was a lot of informationbeing shared, both at the higher
level of the group, but alsothose individual conversations
that would allow everyone tofeel heard and even if they were
introverts, they could have avoice, and I felt like that was
(09:13):
a really powerful approach.
And, more importantly, the teamsaid please don't ever take
away our Wednesday check-in time.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
So was that, in lieu of doing official one-on-ones,
that were set times, and so theywere more organic, though.
You would just kind of see whensomebody was available.
How was that different thanhaving it as a schedule?
Now, looking back, how do youthink that played out?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, if somebody was busy or they were in the middle
of something and I came bytheir office or their work area,
you can tell that, and so youjust go someplace else and then
come back later.
And some people are morningpeople, like it was that organic
and giving people the space tokind of talk when they needed to
talk and not feel the pressureof talking in front of a lot of
(10:05):
different individuals and I mustadmit I do think that in the
technical realm there areprobably more introverts, so
this might not have worked foran entire team of extroverts.
You know, thinking back on, itmight not have been as effective
.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, but I think there is something to you know,
even in the art of negotiationand having that relationship
equity when everybody's at thetable, so that everybody feels
like they have a place.
I think you were setting thatup so that everybody felt their
presence all together, becauseyou had that connection with
(10:41):
them and then also they probablyhad a little bit of insight
about the project or somethingthat they came to the table with
when all of them were together.
That made them feel connected.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And you can also do things like say that's a great
idea, why don't you mention itin the project meeting?
Or everyone wants to hear aboutthat.
Like you can encourage in a waythat doesn't put them on the
spot in the middle of a largesetting, which can be very
challenging for the youngerstaff, the more introverted
(11:13):
staff, so you can give them alittle courage to say stuff
later.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, you know I mean as an extrovert.
I would probably leverage asimilar approach because for me
people that are quiet and needtime to think intimidate me.
They signal a lot of confidenceto me and it's like I can't
(11:41):
read their mind because,especially when people are so
purposeful about the words theyuse and they say something and
stop, that really throws me offbecause I can't pull in
additional insight about them.
So I like that idea of coming,you know, going around
butterflying if you will, andunderstanding kind of the way
(12:05):
people think or what's on theirmind, because then being there
makes me feel like I can kind ofunderstand where they're coming
from.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I can kind of understand where they're coming
from.
I'm glad you shared that,because I would have never, it
would have never occurred to methat the space between the words
, or whatever, can come off asintimidating.
It just would have never.
That was a really that's abrilliant insight.
Learn something today.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, you know, what's funny is I've learned to
use that as my way of breakingthrough.
Awkward silence is that I'm.
I'm illustrating that I'm not.
Awkward silence is that I'millustrating that I'm not only
listening, but I'm illustratingthat I'm purposeful.
It's very difficult for me todo.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
That's really cool, very interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, so when I think about this, so that was a high
stakes situation for you.
These are a situation whereit's really really important to
be purposeful, and we oftendon't think about that with
meetings.
We think that, as leaders, weshould just have this confidence
to bring everybody together andwe're just going to rally and
we all know the scripts that wefollow.
(13:06):
But you've just illustratedthat this is all a work in
progress and every team isdifferent.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, I think the again, the, the big team
dynamics have a place.
I'm not saying that they don'thave a place, but that is kind
of um, the balance isn't therebetween the, the thorough and
thoughtfulness and the sort ofthe frenziness that can come
from one of those larger theloudest person in the room is
(13:38):
heard, type of thing, and thatdoesn't come up.
We always met our deadlines.
Like people were like how doyou guys do that?
But it was because we reallyhad both levels the enthusiasm,
the vision, the teamworktogether, but also how every
individual fit into the puzzle.
And maybe we made our deadlinesbecause we would know very
(14:02):
quickly if something was notworking and we could adjust.
So I would always say it'sbetter to get information and be
able to have time to makechanges than to find out the
last minute that there'ssomething wrong.
So that's probably moreaccurate than we always made our
deadlines is that we could keepthem well understood and
therefore deliver on those highstakes projects and they were
(14:24):
very high stakes projects, asyou know.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, we're talking about software releases that go
to an entire millions of people,Right, Basically there I just
stilled it down Impact tomillions of people, so it goes
back to that research around.
When I think about thatresearch, the amoeverts are good
at balancing the storytellingand understanding.
(14:49):
I feel like your example issuch a great illustration of
that, because your storytellingwas in the Wednesday whatever
you called it connection and theother side of it was so you
were understanding, you weretelling them a little bit of
both in that and then youbrought that to the bigger room.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
And they're both it's .
You can't just like what yousaid.
You can't just be an introvertor an extrovert.
The most powerful is when youcan move between those two
different states.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And recognize, yeah, that you are and have the power
of.
Do I need to show up fully asme, or do I need to show up as a
hybrid of me, so that the otherperson feels like they have
their space as well?
Right right, love it.
All right.
So you're going to have sometips for us.
(15:40):
I'm just going to put you onthe spot.
So when we come back, we'regoing to hear Charisse's
brilliant wisdom put together inthree tips that you can start
using today.
So no pressure, we'll be rightback.
Hey, suzy, here.
I thought I'd pop in.
You know, when I was a littlegirl, I always thought I wanted
to be on the stage.
I thought I might be holding amicrophone and singing.
(16:02):
But I'm now on the stage a lotand I love it because it's not
about me and that experience.
I love to move people, givethem an impactful message that
really makes them feel confidentso that they change their
actions.
If you know somebody in yournetwork internally that hires
(16:24):
speakers, I would love a warmintroduction.
Just send them tosuzytomachukcom speaker page.
I would be so grateful.
Okay, charisse, you are on.
So what's your first tip whenyou think about?
How are you intentional, whenyou think about yourself as an
introvert, to be successful in ahigh-stakes situation?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You know this about me I am a big, I prepare.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I like the quiet time to think about what's going to
happen, run through differentscenarios.
I love to do public speakingand I will write my entire
script out.
I won't read it, but I justlike to be very prepared and I
think that's an advantage ofI've read about introverts is
that they can run through things.
They don't need another partyto bounce things off of.
(17:13):
They can actually prepare inlike a nice quiet space.
So have to be prepared.
In fact, before this podcast, Iwas like okay, tell me how I
can prepare for this.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, and so it's almost like a rehearsal.
It's giving your mind some waysto think through.
What am I going to do, so thatnothing is a surprise.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, I think about like rock climbing, like you
pick your path and you might getoff that path.
You might have to do this holdin the moment.
But if you have an idea of thejourney, just a small plan, you
have a lot higher chance ofsuccess.
Ring that bell.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yes, ring that bell.
As you know, yeah, I've notrang that bell.
Very often I'm very awkward.
Rock climbing yeah, as you know, prepare is a big thing in
negotiation, and so having thatability to rehearse, which
you've taught me a lot as well,the power of that enables you to
(18:15):
be clear headed in the moment.
So it's so helpful because itdoes give you, it allows you to
think through those, those climb, those moves that you're going
to do.
That was such a good analogyand people feel it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I think they feel when you're prepared versus when
you're not prepared.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh, that's so important.
It's like you care about theconversation, love it.
All right, let's just keepgoing.
What's your second tip?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I'm big into mindfulness and meditation and
so using a breath, using somesilence to really be in the
space with somebody else, beforeyou start, you know the
discussion and then you cannotice like what is their, their
pace, how, how do, how quicklydo they speak?
And sort of matching a littlebit of of their I don't know
(19:07):
what that word is Mirroring.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Like mirroring yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, Just kind of get in sync and to me that's
through some silence and somenoticing, not a ton of time, but
just being really calm andpresent for a bit or two?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, and so what you're saying is once you go
into the conversation?
Yeah, and so what you're sayingis once you go into the
conversation, making sure thatyou're not jumping in, but being
really thoughtful aboutslipping into the water.
Don't jump into the pool, Juststart at the shallow end and go
in.
That's such an introverted.
That's a great analogy for anintrovert.
(19:45):
I could see that where anextrovert just jumps into the
deep end and just goes for it.
I love that one and mirroringis so important.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I think introverts and extroverts appreciate not
necessarily having a splash allthe time Like, oh my gosh,
you're going to cannonball andwe're going to just a little bit
of transition.
I think most humans appreciate,and you know, we're going to
just just a little bit of oftransition.
Yeah, I think most humansappreciate.
You can correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
No, I think it's great, I agree.
And taking breaths, I meanthat's really good for me too,
because sometimes I get runningtoo fast in the meeting and my
pace is that can feeldisrespectful to the other side.
So I love your idea of taking amoment just to consciously say
(20:35):
what is their pace like.
Let me try to match that.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
That's really powerful If they're just
trotting.
You can get them to gallop.
You can nudge them, but you'rejust pulling with all your might
to get them to go faster.
You can nudge them, but you'rejust pulling with all your might
to get them to go faster.
That can change the dynamic alot.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We are introducing a lot of analogies here, there's
horses, rock climbing swimmingpools, there's butterflies.
We got you covered.
You stick right here.
All right, what's your thirdone?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
This is like a secret hack.
I don't know if I want to tellit to you in public, but I will
because we're such good friends.
I like to take notes and I havethis wonderful digital tablet
that I like to take notes on.
I think you have the same oneactually.
Yeah, I do.
Anyway, I let people know that,for me, just jotting things
down helps me keep track, andI'm not being disrespectful, but
(21:32):
that act of looking down andwriting is also a little moment
where you can collect.
They don't know what's going onin your head, but you can
collect your thoughts, writesome things down, not forget
stuff, but it's like a littlecognitive reset break in a way
that doesn't feel as awkward as,just, you know, sitting there
in silence or or running at themouth of it.
(21:55):
So I like the note, likechanging your gaze and taking a
couple notes.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I love that, and your secret hack of that is getting.
It allows you time to reset orthink about what you're going to
say next.
And while you were saying that,I'm like, oh, that's how I slow
myself down so that I'm notjumping into the next thing, so
I'm giving their pause in casesomebody wants to say something
else.
So it's very intentional for metoo.
(22:23):
That's really.
Thanks for sharing your hack.
It's out, it's out.
It's not a secret anymore.
It's out in the universe.
Okay, so the three are toreally be thoughtful and prepare
before you go in.
The second is to read thecadence of the other party and
just take some breaths andmirror what they're doing.
And then the third one is totake notes and tell them you're
(22:46):
taking notes so that you can getyourself to catch up or think
about what's next.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Right, and I think this is old school.
But I think taking notes whenyou're typing is a completely
different experience.
You've got a barrier, You'vegot sound, but when you're
actually taking notes on adigital tablet or whatever
writing you know, it doesn'tfeel as like there's a barrier
between you and the other person.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
You're still in the conversation.
Yeah, love that.
All right, you did good.
Those are great tips.
All right, when we come back,we're going to talk about.
What do you and I need to stop,start or continue in relation
to this conversation?
That will make us bettertomorrow.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Oh, I got in.
Hey everybody, I'm James.
I'm Susie's co-host on herother podcast, Quick Take.
If you're enjoying this podcast, you're going to love our
podcast Quick Take even better,Mostly because, well, I'm there,
which is infinitely moreentertaining.
But hey, you'll love it if youjoin us.
Please subscribe now, whereveryou get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, charisse, this is where the rubber hits the
road.
No, is that right?
Yeah, the pedal hits the metal.
I always get this analogy wrong.
I don't even know why I alwayssay it, but, as an executive
coach, talking about concepts isgreat, but applying them is
where really where the power is.
So let's just go, stop, startand continue.
Think about one of those inrelation to our topic today pick
(24:23):
, stop, start or continue and Iwant the listeners to do the
same thing, but tell us whichone are you going to pick and
give us some color around it.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I had epiphany today talking with you and it was
around what the other person'sthinking.
When there's a period ofsilence and you talked about, I
assume that there's a lot ofconfidence there.
So I'm going to stop assumingthat that silence, that people
are thinking oh, they don't knowwhat to say next, but that
(24:54):
there's an assumption aroundthey're being very purposeful
and contemplative and that's apositive thing.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I'm going to stop that stereotypical, introverted
worry oh, I'm like grinning fromear to ear Cause it's like that
is such an important thing toconsider and it's so funny how
we get in our own mind aboutwhat that means to the other
person and we don't even know itmight be illustrating something
completely different.
Okay, that's a good one you get.
(25:21):
You made me really think aboutbeing more purposeful.
I do write notes with myremarkable um as I'm going along
, but I did it more because Iwant to remember.
But I love the idea of allowingmy brain to be kind of reset
and giving me time to eitherchange the pace or think about
what I'm going to do next.
So I think that was brilliant.
(25:41):
That was a really great insight.
So thank you for sharing that,of course, all right, well, I
challenge everybody.
Think about what are you goingto do differently as an
introvert, as an extrovert,whatever that is, maybe as an
amoevert, like we've talkedabout.
There's different strategiesthat actually Sharice and I both
(26:02):
use, that we take it from adifferent perspective.
Don't you think, sharice, whatwas your big takeaway?
Absolutely, yeah't you think,charisse, what was your?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
big takeaway?
Absolutely, yeah, I think.
Well, even things like justbeing able to be a little bit of
a chameleon when you need toDon't be so structured or think
that you can't be an amniabert.
It takes practice, but you canTake using your non-dominant
side to do something.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I love that so much.
We label ourselves, yeah, andthen we believe that we need to
show up of what thatstereotypical label means.
So you're saying don't do that,stop it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Unlabel yourself.
Try to let it go a little bit.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I love it All right, Cherise.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So how can people find you, follow you, get to
know you more.
Linkedin is best.
I'm the only Cherise spelledS-H-E-R-I-S-S-E Hawkins on
LinkedIn, so I'm an original, soyou can find me there.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Awesome, and we'll have that in the show notes too.
If you're looking for Charisse,make sure that you connect with
her, get to know her.
I really appreciate you takingthe time, charisse, to talk
about this topic, especially asan introvert not that I'm
stereotyping you, but especiallyas an introvert.
Yeah, I appreciate you showingup for me Well, and we're both
happy that you made the choiceto share this time with us as
(27:24):
well.
We'd love to hear from youwhether you are more like me as
an extrovert, more like Charisseas an introvert, or where you
fall in that spectrum.
Let us know what yourstrategies have been to show up
as a better leader and in highstakes situation.
And before we go, I just wantto remind you negotiation is
more than a skill, it's amindset.
Thanks, charisse, until nexttime.
(27:44):
Thanks, charisse, until nexttime.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of Leaders with Leverage
.
I am so honored that you choseto spend your time with me.
If you're ready to accelerateyour professional growth and
invest in defining the careeryou want, I have more resources
for you.
(28:05):
You can join my newsletter,where your inbox will love a
Monday minute.
It's an easy read where I sharestories of how others are
adopting a negotiator's mindsetso that you can use these tips
so that you can find successevery week.
And if you wanna read my book,the Art of Everyday Negotiation
(28:25):
Without Manipulation, I have aspecial offer just for my
listeners.
These links can be found in theshow notes and if you want to
work with me, there's moreinformation there as well.
I'd love for you to be a partof this movement to adopt a
negotiator's mindset, becausethose who do create
opportunities for themselves andthey believe the investment is
(28:46):
completely worth it.
Head to the links in the shownotes and just remember that.
I appreciate you.
Let's challenge your assumptions about what it means
to be an introvert versus anextrovert.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Stay right here.
Welcome to the Leaders withLeverage podcast.
I'm your host and negotiationexpert, suzy Tomichuk.
It's time to be your ownadvocate and confidently
navigate what you want out ofyour career, not simply the next
role or additional compensation.
I want to show you thatnegotiation happens every day in
(00:27):
plain sight, so you need to beready to opt in and say yes with
confidence.
This happens by adopting anegotiator's mindset, and I'll
show you how, together withother business leaders, you'll
learn the essential skills andshifts in mindset you need to
know.
You will be empowered tonaturally advocate for yourself
(00:48):
and grow your professionalskills, and while you're
practicing along the way, you'llincrease your confidence and
gain respect, all while you'regrowing into that future leader
you're poised to be, and whenyou face a high stakes situation
, you're ready, no matter howhigh those stakes are.
So let's do it.
Let's lead with leverage.
(01:14):
Hey, welcome to Leaders withLeverage.
I am glad that you made thechoice to be here today, because
I am with one of my favoritepeople in the whole wide world.
I'm not just saying that withone of my favorite people in the
whole wide world, I'm not justsaying that, sharice Hawkins, we
(01:34):
have been business alliestogether.
We are friends.
We have shared hotel rooms.
We'll just start out TMI all ofit right here.
So welcome Sharice.
I'm so glad to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's so fun and one of the reasons I wanted to have
you is because we're verydifferent and we're really
different in a lot of ways, andone of the ones that's so
blatantly different about us isI am like on the extrovert to
the max.
In fact, when I got tested, Iwas all the way over on max, and
(02:04):
you are just the opposite.
In fact, you got tested too andyou were all the way over on
the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
It was just like a blip on the very edge, just a
blip.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Me too.
Me too, and what's sointeresting to me about this
concept is that in negotiationsthey looked at sales leaders in
the research and they looked atwho are most successful and at
first blush you might thinkextroverts, of course, are
better salespeople, they aremore gregarious and they build
(02:35):
the relationships.
But what they found wereamoeverts were the most
successful and then introvertssecond and extroverts last.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Isn't that interesting Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, and it's about telling the story and making
sure the other person feelsunderstood.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I think that's the key right there.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Feeling very understood.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I've just been experimenting with that more in
my own business and the pausingand making sure that the person
feels understood and repeatingback just a little bit about
what they said.
As simple as that is and ashard as that is sometimes, that
little ninja trick has really,really changed the dynamics of
(03:25):
the conversations I've had andI'm talking in the last, I don't
know since the beginning ofthis year, so a relatively
recent approach has paid bigdividends.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And what's the evidence of that?
How do you know it's been moresuccessful for you?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
The pace of the conversation and the pace of the
engagement.
It feels like you build thatrapport faster, you get the
trust factor faster and then youcan move to the next step.
And even if that next step isno, you get to that place faster
.
And in business, time iseverything.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
As a natural introvert, I'm surprised that
this has to be such a mindfulpractice for you, because I
would think I was talking tomyself.
To slow down, ask questions,pause, but you've had to be more
mindful of this.
Is it just the opposite of thatyou?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
know.
I think there's a little bit ofan expectation.
I don't know what the studiesshow, but I've heard that.
You know, we live in a veryextroverted society and so
there's this expectation,especially as a business leader,
to be an extrovert.
So it's like you're unlearningwhat you learn, to try and be
(04:47):
more what is expected, but itreally wasn't the right.
It's like you zigzag back andforth.
So I think for many years I wasposing as an extrovert.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So interesting because you were an executive
and led big teams and now a CEO,and so you had to kind of fake
that.
Yeah, and it wasn't the rightdecision.
Wow, what would you dodifferently?
Would you have shown updifferently back then?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I want to say yes, because I do think that the more
authentic you are, the morepeople can feel that and the
trust and businesses arounddoing relationships with people
that you know and you trust.
We've both been in business fora long time, so I really don't
know if I'm being honest, ifback then, when there was so
much pressure to be in this, thestudies hadn't been done yet,
(05:45):
the book Quiet hadn't beenwritten yet, all of that, I
don't know if I would have hadthe opportunity to really lean
into it.
I think we've got moreknowledge now and it would be so
I'm just being honest.
I'd like to say, yeah, sure, Iwould have done that, but I
don't know if I really couldhave swam upstream.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I would have done that, but I don't know if I
really could have swam upstreamso interesting.
I hadn't really thought abouthow much I'll have to really
think about that, because howmuch of me just being a natural
extrovert allowed me to justshow up and not have to fake
that.
Not as much energy for me as itwas for you back in the day.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So much energy for me as it was for you back in the
day.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So much energy, so much energy.
All right, so when we come back, let's pull some stories about
how being an extrovert for me,how being an introvert for you,
what's an example of when, in anegotiation or a difficult
conversation, you leaned intothat or faked it, and what was
the results for you?
So stay here with me, sharice,because we're going to be right
(06:49):
back.
Hey, suzy, here, thought I'dpop in.
I wanted to let you know.
I've been an executive coachfor over a decade.
I work with executives and theycall me their silent partner,
because I help them increasetheir confidence when they're
facing really difficultdecisions.
If you'd like to see if we're agood fit, head over to
suzytomichukcom and fill out anapplication.
(07:11):
I'd love to hear from you.
Okay, so we're back, and Iwanted you to tell a story,
charisse, and just to frame itfor you and for the listeners.
It's around high stakes, andhigh stakes doesn't mean it has
to be an official negotiation.
It's a situation that ismeaningful to you, one that you
really want to be thoughtfularound, having an outcome that
(07:33):
is beneficial to you and theother side.
So what comes to mind for you?
Share with us an experience ora story.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That's a good question.
Let me think a sec.
Well, I think around justleadership and being a technical
leader, the model can often belet's have a big team meeting
and talk about it as a group andbrainstorm, and you know, all
those are great things and theyprovide a lot of energy and a
lot of creativity.
Don't necessarily draw out theintroverts in the group, and I
(08:04):
found that in combination withthat activity maybe not as much
having one-on-ones I had thisapproach where I would go it's
called Wednesday check-ins and Iwould go around and talk to
everybody on my team and it wasa lot of people, so it took all
day long and just spend sometime with them one-on-one and
(08:27):
ask a few questions, find outwhat was on their mind, and it
allowed each person to take thetime that needed.
Sometimes it would be longer orshorter depending on what they
were going, what they weredealing with, but everyone loved
the ability to have thatconnection and to really be
heard, like we talked aboutbefore.
And then I'd take that back andput it together in the big
(08:51):
master plan and so our projectswould come in on time because
there was a lot of informationbeing shared, both at the higher
level of the group, but alsothose individual conversations
that would allow everyone tofeel heard and even if they were
introverts, they could have avoice, and I felt like that was
(09:13):
a really powerful approach.
And, more importantly, the teamsaid please don't ever take
away our Wednesday check-in time.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
So was that, in lieu of doing official one-on-ones,
that were set times, and so theywere more organic, though.
You would just kind of see whensomebody was available.
How was that different thanhaving it as a schedule?
Now, looking back, how do youthink that played out?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, if somebody was busy or they were in the middle
of something and I came bytheir office or their work area,
you can tell that, and so youjust go someplace else and then
come back later.
And some people are morningpeople, like it was that organic
and giving people the space tokind of talk when they needed to
talk and not feel the pressureof talking in front of a lot of
(10:05):
different individuals and I mustadmit I do think that in the
technical realm there areprobably more introverts, so
this might not have worked foran entire team of extroverts.
You know, thinking back on, itmight not have been as effective
.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, but I think there is something to you know,
even in the art of negotiationand having that relationship
equity when everybody's at thetable, so that everybody feels
like they have a place.
I think you were setting thatup so that everybody felt their
presence all together, becauseyou had that connection with
(10:41):
them and then also they probablyhad a little bit of insight
about the project or somethingthat they came to the table with
when all of them were together.
That made them feel connected.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And you can also do things like say that's a great
idea, why don't you mention itin the project meeting?
Or everyone wants to hear aboutthat.
Like you can encourage in a waythat doesn't put them on the
spot in the middle of a largesetting, which can be very
challenging for the youngerstaff, the more introverted
(11:13):
staff, so you can give them alittle courage to say stuff
later.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, you know I mean as an extrovert.
I would probably leverage asimilar approach because for me
people that are quiet and needtime to think intimidate me.
They signal a lot of confidenceto me and it's like I can't
(11:41):
read their mind because,especially when people are so
purposeful about the words theyuse and they say something and
stop, that really throws me offbecause I can't pull in
additional insight about them.
So I like that idea of coming,you know, going around
butterflying if you will, andunderstanding kind of the way
(12:05):
people think or what's on theirmind, because then being there
makes me feel like I can kind ofunderstand where they're coming
from.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I can kind of understand where they're coming
from.
I'm glad you shared that,because I would have never, it
would have never occurred to methat the space between the words
, or whatever, can come off asintimidating.
It just would have never.
That was a really that's abrilliant insight.
Learn something today.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, you know, what's funny is I've learned to
use that as my way of breakingthrough.
Awkward silence is that I'm.
I'm illustrating that I'm not.
Awkward silence is that I'millustrating that I'm not only
listening, but I'm illustratingthat I'm purposeful.
It's very difficult for me todo.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
That's really cool, very interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, so when I think about this, so that was a high
stakes situation for you.
These are a situation whereit's really really important to
be purposeful, and we oftendon't think about that with
meetings.
We think that, as leaders, weshould just have this confidence
to bring everybody together andwe're just going to rally and
we all know the scripts that wefollow.
(13:06):
But you've just illustratedthat this is all a work in
progress and every team isdifferent.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, I think the again, the, the big team
dynamics have a place.
I'm not saying that they don'thave a place, but that is kind
of um, the balance isn't therebetween the, the thorough and
thoughtfulness and the sort ofthe frenziness that can come
from one of those larger theloudest person in the room is
(13:38):
heard, type of thing, and thatdoesn't come up.
We always met our deadlines.
Like people were like how doyou guys do that?
But it was because we reallyhad both levels the enthusiasm,
the vision, the teamworktogether, but also how every
individual fit into the puzzle.
And maybe we made our deadlinesbecause we would know very
(14:02):
quickly if something was notworking and we could adjust.
So I would always say it'sbetter to get information and be
able to have time to makechanges than to find out the
last minute that there'ssomething wrong.
So that's probably moreaccurate than we always made our
deadlines is that we could keepthem well understood and
therefore deliver on those highstakes projects and they were
(14:24):
very high stakes projects, asyou know.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, we're talking about software releases that go
to an entire millions of people,Right, Basically there I just
stilled it down Impact tomillions of people, so it goes
back to that research around.
When I think about thatresearch, the amoeverts are good
at balancing the storytellingand understanding.
(14:49):
I feel like your example issuch a great illustration of
that, because your storytellingwas in the Wednesday whatever
you called it connection and theother side of it was so you
were understanding, you weretelling them a little bit of
both in that and then youbrought that to the bigger room.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
And they're both it's .
You can't just like what yousaid.
You can't just be an introvertor an extrovert.
The most powerful is when youcan move between those two
different states.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And recognize, yeah, that you are and have the power
of.
Do I need to show up fully asme, or do I need to show up as a
hybrid of me, so that the otherperson feels like they have
their space as well?
Right right, love it.
All right.
So you're going to have sometips for us.
(15:40):
I'm just going to put you onthe spot.
So when we come back, we'regoing to hear Charisse's
brilliant wisdom put together inthree tips that you can start
using today.
So no pressure, we'll be rightback.
Hey, suzy, here.
I thought I'd pop in.
You know, when I was a littlegirl, I always thought I wanted
to be on the stage.
I thought I might be holding amicrophone and singing.
(16:02):
But I'm now on the stage a lotand I love it because it's not
about me and that experience.
I love to move people, givethem an impactful message that
really makes them feel confidentso that they change their
actions.
If you know somebody in yournetwork internally that hires
(16:24):
speakers, I would love a warmintroduction.
Just send them tosuzytomachukcom speaker page.
I would be so grateful.
Okay, charisse, you are on.
So what's your first tip whenyou think about?
How are you intentional, whenyou think about yourself as an
introvert, to be successful in ahigh-stakes situation?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You know this about me I am a big, I prepare.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I like the quiet time to think about what's going to
happen, run through differentscenarios.
I love to do public speakingand I will write my entire
script out.
I won't read it, but I justlike to be very prepared and I
think that's an advantage ofI've read about introverts is
that they can run through things.
They don't need another partyto bounce things off of.
(17:13):
They can actually prepare inlike a nice quiet space.
So have to be prepared.
In fact, before this podcast, Iwas like okay, tell me how I
can prepare for this.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, and so it's almost like a rehearsal.
It's giving your mind some waysto think through.
What am I going to do, so thatnothing is a surprise.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, I think about like rock climbing, like you
pick your path and you might getoff that path.
You might have to do this holdin the moment.
But if you have an idea of thejourney, just a small plan, you
have a lot higher chance ofsuccess.
Ring that bell.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yes, ring that bell.
As you know, yeah, I've notrang that bell.
Very often I'm very awkward.
Rock climbing yeah, as you know, prepare is a big thing in
negotiation, and so having thatability to rehearse, which
you've taught me a lot as well,the power of that enables you to
(18:15):
be clear headed in the moment.
So it's so helpful because itdoes give you, it allows you to
think through those, those climb, those moves that you're going
to do.
That was such a good analogyand people feel it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I think they feel when you're prepared versus when
you're not prepared.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh, that's so important.
It's like you care about theconversation, love it.
All right, let's just keepgoing.
What's your second tip?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I'm big into mindfulness and meditation and
so using a breath, using somesilence to really be in the
space with somebody else, beforeyou start, you know the
discussion and then you cannotice like what is their, their
pace, how, how do, how quicklydo they speak?
And sort of matching a littlebit of of their I don't know
(19:07):
what that word is Mirroring.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Like mirroring yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, Just kind of get in sync and to me that's
through some silence and somenoticing, not a ton of time, but
just being really calm andpresent for a bit or two?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, and so what you're saying is once you go
into the conversation?
Yeah, and so what you're sayingis once you go into the
conversation, making sure thatyou're not jumping in, but being
really thoughtful aboutslipping into the water.
Don't jump into the pool, Juststart at the shallow end and go
in.
That's such an introverted.
That's a great analogy for anintrovert.
(19:45):
I could see that where anextrovert just jumps into the
deep end and just goes for it.
I love that one and mirroringis so important.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I think introverts and extroverts appreciate not
necessarily having a splash allthe time Like, oh my gosh,
you're going to cannonball andwe're going to just a little bit
of transition.
I think most humans appreciate,and you know, we're going to
just just a little bit of oftransition.
Yeah, I think most humansappreciate.
You can correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
No, I think it's great, I agree.
And taking breaths, I meanthat's really good for me too,
because sometimes I get runningtoo fast in the meeting and my
pace is that can feeldisrespectful to the other side.
So I love your idea of taking amoment just to consciously say
(20:35):
what is their pace like.
Let me try to match that.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
That's really powerful If they're just
trotting.
You can get them to gallop.
You can nudge them, but you'rejust pulling with all your might
to get them to go faster.
You can nudge them, but you'rejust pulling with all your might
to get them to go faster.
That can change the dynamic alot.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We are introducing a lot of analogies here, there's
horses, rock climbing swimmingpools, there's butterflies.
We got you covered.
You stick right here.
All right, what's your thirdone?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
This is like a secret hack.
I don't know if I want to tellit to you in public, but I will
because we're such good friends.
I like to take notes and I havethis wonderful digital tablet
that I like to take notes on.
I think you have the same oneactually.
Yeah, I do.
Anyway, I let people know that,for me, just jotting things
down helps me keep track, andI'm not being disrespectful, but
(21:32):
that act of looking down andwriting is also a little moment
where you can collect.
They don't know what's going onin your head, but you can
collect your thoughts, writesome things down, not forget
stuff, but it's like a littlecognitive reset break in a way
that doesn't feel as awkward as,just, you know, sitting there
in silence or or running at themouth of it.
(21:55):
So I like the note, likechanging your gaze and taking a
couple notes.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I love that, and your secret hack of that is getting.
It allows you time to reset orthink about what you're going to
say next.
And while you were saying that,I'm like, oh, that's how I slow
myself down so that I'm notjumping into the next thing, so
I'm giving their pause in casesomebody wants to say something
else.
So it's very intentional for metoo.
(22:23):
That's really.
Thanks for sharing your hack.
It's out, it's out.
It's not a secret anymore.
It's out in the universe.
Okay, so the three are toreally be thoughtful and prepare
before you go in.
The second is to read thecadence of the other party and
just take some breaths andmirror what they're doing.
And then the third one is totake notes and tell them you're
(22:46):
taking notes so that you can getyourself to catch up or think
about what's next.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Right, and I think this is old school.
But I think taking notes whenyou're typing is a completely
different experience.
You've got a barrier, You'vegot sound, but when you're
actually taking notes on adigital tablet or whatever
writing you know, it doesn'tfeel as like there's a barrier
between you and the other person.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
You're still in the conversation.
Yeah, love that.
All right, you did good.
Those are great tips.
All right, when we come back,we're going to talk about.
What do you and I need to stop,start or continue in relation
to this conversation?
That will make us bettertomorrow.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Oh, I got in.
Hey everybody, I'm James.
I'm Susie's co-host on herother podcast, Quick Take.
If you're enjoying this podcast, you're going to love our
podcast Quick Take even better,Mostly because, well, I'm there,
which is infinitely moreentertaining.
But hey, you'll love it if youjoin us.
Please subscribe now, whereveryou get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, charisse, this is where the rubber hits the
road.
No, is that right?
Yeah, the pedal hits the metal.
I always get this analogy wrong.
I don't even know why I alwayssay it, but, as an executive
coach, talking about concepts isgreat, but applying them is
where really where the power is.
So let's just go, stop, startand continue.
Think about one of those inrelation to our topic today pick
(24:23):
, stop, start or continue and Iwant the listeners to do the
same thing, but tell us whichone are you going to pick and
give us some color around it.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I had epiphany today talking with you and it was
around what the other person'sthinking.
When there's a period ofsilence and you talked about, I
assume that there's a lot ofconfidence there.
So I'm going to stop assumingthat that silence, that people
are thinking oh, they don't knowwhat to say next, but that
(24:54):
there's an assumption aroundthey're being very purposeful
and contemplative and that's apositive thing.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I'm going to stop that stereotypical, introverted
worry oh, I'm like grinning fromear to ear Cause it's like that
is such an important thing toconsider and it's so funny how
we get in our own mind aboutwhat that means to the other
person and we don't even know itmight be illustrating something
completely different.
Okay, that's a good one you get.
(25:21):
You made me really think aboutbeing more purposeful.
I do write notes with myremarkable um as I'm going along
, but I did it more because Iwant to remember.
But I love the idea of allowingmy brain to be kind of reset
and giving me time to eitherchange the pace or think about
what I'm going to do next.
So I think that was brilliant.
(25:41):
That was a really great insight.
So thank you for sharing that,of course, all right, well, I
challenge everybody.
Think about what are you goingto do differently as an
introvert, as an extrovert,whatever that is, maybe as an
amoevert, like we've talkedabout.
There's different strategiesthat actually Sharice and I both
(26:02):
use, that we take it from adifferent perspective.
Don't you think, sharice, whatwas your big takeaway?
Absolutely, yeah't you think,charisse, what was your?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
big takeaway?
Absolutely, yeah, I think.
Well, even things like justbeing able to be a little bit of
a chameleon when you need toDon't be so structured or think
that you can't be an amniabert.
It takes practice, but you canTake using your non-dominant
side to do something.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I love that so much.
We label ourselves, yeah, andthen we believe that we need to
show up of what thatstereotypical label means.
So you're saying don't do that,stop it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Unlabel yourself.
Try to let it go a little bit.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I love it All right, Cherise.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So how can people find you, follow you, get to
know you more.
Linkedin is best.
I'm the only Cherise spelledS-H-E-R-I-S-S-E Hawkins on
LinkedIn, so I'm an original, soyou can find me there.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Awesome, and we'll have that in the show notes too.
If you're looking for Charisse,make sure that you connect with
her, get to know her.
I really appreciate you takingthe time, charisse, to talk
about this topic, especially asan introvert not that I'm
stereotyping you, but especiallyas an introvert.
Yeah, I appreciate you showingup for me Well, and we're both
happy that you made the choiceto share this time with us as
(27:24):
well.
We'd love to hear from youwhether you are more like me as
an extrovert, more like Charisseas an introvert, or where you
fall in that spectrum.
Let us know what yourstrategies have been to show up
as a better leader and in highstakes situation.
And before we go, I just wantto remind you negotiation is
more than a skill, it's amindset.
Thanks, charisse, until nexttime.
(27:44):
Thanks, charisse, until nexttime.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of Leaders with Leverage
.
I am so honored that you choseto spend your time with me.
If you're ready to accelerateyour professional growth and
invest in defining the careeryou want, I have more resources
for you.
(28:05):
You can join my newsletter,where your inbox will love a
Monday minute.
It's an easy read where I sharestories of how others are
adopting a negotiator's mindsetso that you can use these tips
so that you can find successevery week.
And if you wanna read my book,the Art of Everyday Negotiation
(28:25):
Without Manipulation, I have aspecial offer just for my
listeners.
These links can be found in theshow notes and if you want to
work with me, there's moreinformation there as well.
I'd love for you to be a partof this movement to adopt a
negotiator's mindset, becausethose who do create
opportunities for themselves andthey believe the investment is
(28:46):
completely worth it.
Head to the links in the shownotes and just remember that.
I appreciate you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.