October 31, 2023 • 39 mins
What if the key to personal development, confidence, and inspiration was right under your nose, waiting to be discovered? Our special guest, Nick Hutchinson, author of the upcoming book "Rise of the Reader," unveils the power of reading as a formidable tool for self-improvement. A former athlete, Nick's journey from the sports field to the library is a captivating tale, revealing how podcasts during hour-long commutes morphed into a passion for reading hundreds of books.
Drawing parallels between the worlds of books and sports, Nick discloses how he applies his learnings from literature to real-world scenarios. He highlights the importance of reading and setting SMART goals to extract the most from each book. He shares intriguing leadership lessons from NFL coaches like Bill Belichick and Dan Campbell, comparing their styles to concepts of authentic leadership.
Nick and Nate play a fun game of draft-style "NFL Comps" where Nick makes comparisons between book and the NFL. You won't want to miss his takes on Mindset, Atomic Habits, Start with Why, and many more.
They close the episode with a simple challenge and a generous offer from Nick to get you started as Book Thinker, and to Rise as a Reader. Learn more about Nick and connect with him using the links below:
- Buy the book Rise of the Reader on Amazon: https://a.co/d/c9dE0ln
- Learn more about Nick: www.nickhutch.com
- Learn more about Book Thinkers: www.bookthinkers.com
- Complete the Episode Challenge by receiving a personalized book recommendation: DM Nick at www.instagram.com/bookthinkers
Connect with Nate and Leadership Chalk Talk:
- Website: https://www.leadershipchalktalk.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nate-prosser/
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Join the community #theworldneedsmoreleaders
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Alright, thanks for tuning in.
I am really excited about thisepisode Chance to talk about one
of my absolute favorite things,which is self-development, and
to do that I have a true expertjoining me today.
Nick Hutchinson is the authorof the upcoming book Rise of the
Reader.
So Nick has read over 400self-development books and is a
(00:32):
true expert at learning how totake those nuggets from the book
and apply them.
And he is going to drop someknowledge on us, Nick.
Welcome to Leadership.
Jock Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, I'm excited to be here, Nate.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, you got it To kick us off.
Would you mind just sharingwith the listeners a little bit
about yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sure.
So what might surpriseeverybody that can visualize my
background, which has like athousand books, is that I was
not much of a reader growing up.
I didn't care much for personaldevelopment.
I was more of the athletestereotype through middle school
, high school, not really muchof the academic.
I played football.
In fact, my senior year we gotto play in Gillette Stadium on
(01:15):
live TV, which was a lot of fun,and I was captain of the
wrestling team.
So those were the things that Ifocused on growing up.
But it all changed for me goinginto my senior year of college
because I took an internship ata local software company and my
boss at the time, kyle.
He recognized that I had somepotential that I wasn't
necessarily fulfilling and hesaid hey, listen, man, you
(01:37):
commute about an hour each wayto this internship five days a
week.
That's 10 hours a week in thecar.
Why don't you try listening tosome podcasts instead of music?
Right, like these business orpersonal development styles,
shows might help you get closerto where you want to be in life.
And so I started to listen tothese podcasts and very quickly
I realized that so many of thesepeople being interviewed, these
(02:00):
successful people, they gave atleast some credit for their
success to the books that theywere reading, and so everything
switched for me.
I went from a non reader to abig time reader almost overnight
, and I have not looked back.
Over the last 10 years I'veread hundreds and hundreds and
hundreds of books, and I'vereally enjoyed getting into this
world of personal development.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So you've traded teams from jock to nerd almost.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yes, I have.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
But, as I understand, you still follow sports.
So you're taking in all thisself development, you're
learning, but you're still asports fan.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about your relationship
with sports?
You said you grew up footballand wrestling and kind of who
you follow and how you followsports still.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah well, growing up in the Boston Massachusetts
area over the last 29 years hasbeen great.
Obviously, there are a lot ofvery storied.
Yeah, good timing right.
There are a lot of very storiedfranchises up in the New
England area, and so when I wasyounger I paid more attention, I
think, to the Red Sox.
I mean it was a lot of fungrowing up watching David Ortiz,
(03:07):
manny Ramirez, pedro NomarGarcia-Pera, and my dad was a
really big Red Sox fan too, so Ipaid a lot of attention to the
Red Sox.
When my dad was a little bityounger he worked for a company
that sold a lot of Converse andas a result they worked with
some athletes on the Celtics,and so my dad spent a lot of
(03:28):
time around Larry Bird, robertParrish, kevin McHale in the
locker room going to these games, and so I grew up sort of in
with a house where the basementwas like all sports member Billy
and stuff.
And then during my kind of latelet's see what year's late
middle school, early high school, mike Vrabel, patriot, former
(03:51):
Patriot linebacker, and I, headcoach of the Titans, was
neighbors with my parents, andso I had a lot of great access
to the team.
We went to church with hisfamily on a lot of Sundays and I
got to know his kids, and sothen I got into football and I
started to pay a lot ofattention to football.
So today I'm still a bigPatriots fan, but I'm more like
an NFL fan these days becausethe Patriots sort of stink.
(04:14):
So I play a lot of fantasyfootball.
I watch football on Thursday,sunday and Monday and I'm a big
fan of the league.
I think there's a lot offantastic personal development
lessons in watching a sport likefootball as well.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
All right, yeah, thanks for the background, nick.
Friends of the show know thatwe should be enemies, with my
Pittsburgh allegiance andprobably some jealousy for all
the championships Boston's hadover the last several years.
But Nick is such a smart andgreat guy that we're not going
to hold it against them and diveinto some of the self
development stuff.
And I want to double click backinto that comment about Rable
(04:50):
being your neighbor a little bitlater.
But let's jump into some of thereading.
So I'll put it out there I amnot a very effective reader.
It's maybe why I like doing andlistening to podcasts a little
bit more.
I imagine some of my listenersare in a similar boat, where you
kind of read these books, oryou try to read these books and
you don't get a lot out of them,and I think that's really part
(05:11):
of your message, right?
How do you not just read booksfor the heck of it, but how do
you apply them?
Drop some knowledge on this,nick.
What is your secret or what canyou share with us ahead of the
book?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, I'll say a couple of things, because I
believe that our ability to readand implement personal
development information is oneof the most underutilized skill
sets that we all possess today.
I mean 10 years ago.
I was insecure on one side ofthe spectrum, filled with ego
and emotionally reactive on theother.
I, you know, as a recentcollege graduate, I didn't
(05:44):
really have my wits about me.
Financially, I wasn't thehealthiest, I didn't focus on a
lot of those things, and now I'mliving my dream life, and it's
been less than 10 years.
Like I do joke around, I'm 29years old, but if you include
all of the books behind me, I'mthousands of years old, because
people live amazing lives andthen they end up condensing
(06:04):
decades of lived experience intodays of reading.
They spend their entire livesfiguring out how to solve the
same problems that we're dealingwith today, and then they give
you the solution for $20 in afew hours of your time, and then
we choose to ignore the adviceand spend all this time trying
to figure it out ourselves, andso I think that's inefficient.
(06:25):
That's what I have to say aboutit.
So over the last 10 years, I'veread books about everything that
you can imagine.
I mean, every single time aproblem pops up, there's a book
about how somebody else solvedthat problem, and if you can
read and implement iteffectively, you can solve the
problem too.
I'll kind of finish thisemotional rant by saying that if
(06:47):
you are dealing if anybodylistening or watching this is
dealing with the same problem ona daily basis, check out the
following math Over the next 30years, you're going to deal with
that problem 11,000 times,right?
30 times 365.
So why not spend a few dollars,a few hours of your time, solve
the problem so that you don'thave to deal with it 10,950 more
(07:11):
times, right, if you take 50days to fix it?
That's how I think abouteverything in my life right now,
because these books they'relike magic, they're like a
shortcut and they're availableto us in a lot of ways for free,
and we choose not to read them.
And it just kind of blows mymind.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
The math resonates with me for sure.
So I'm going to put you on thespot a little bit.
If you don't mind, hit me, I'llput myself out there.
So I would say managing a lot.
Maybe that's some level ofovercapacity stress.
So I got three young kids, Ihave a big job, I do a podcast
on the side, I try to work outevery day and there's not enough
(07:52):
hours in the day and I feellike I'm always disappointing
someone or something, either myfamily, my work or myself.
And I, how do I, if I'm stuckright and that problem has
probably been persisting for alittle while how do I get
started Right If I'm stuck?
How do I get past the inertiato find a book, start a book,
get going?
Give me a tip.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Okay, I will give you a tip.
First I'd like to ask aquestion.
If I paid you Twenty thousanddollars to read a book by the
end of the month, what do wehave?
Like two weeks left?
Do you think you could do itLike would?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
you be motivated to do that.
Yeah, I'll get that done yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So it's not a question of whether or not you
can read, but it is a questionof whether or not you value the
reading enough to prioritize itover some of the other things in
your schedule, and I thinkthat's the case for all of us.
It's a question of value andpriority.
But let's say that I, you know,had that magic wand and I could
afford to pay twenty grand.
And now you're reading.
How would you fit it in?
Instead of trying to find time,I recommend replacing low
(08:54):
impact activities, like a littlebit of social media or a little
bit of netflix or whateveryou're watching in the evening,
with reading a great book, maybeeven a little bit of football
from time to time.
And the following math ispretty surprising, but kind of
follow me here.
So if you spent fifteen minutesin the morning reading right by
replacing a little bit ofscrolling, and fifteen minutes
(09:15):
in the evening reading byreplacing a little bit of sports
, that's thirty minutes a day.
Now, if you're just startingout, thirty minutes is
equivalent to twenty pages.
Twenty pages five days a weekmonday through friday is a
hundred pages a week.
That's a book every two weeksor every three weeks.
That's twenty six books.
Twenty to twenty six books overthe course of the next twelve
(09:38):
months, simply by replacing alittle bit of social media and a
little bit of netflix withreading a good book.
So that's what myrecommendation would be schedule
it into your calendar and don'tre prioritize family or work or
the gym, but maybe a little bitof some of those other things
that you could probably find.
If you looked on your screentime.
(09:58):
You know there's probably a fewareas in there that don't
matter so much, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, it's great.
Alright.
My follow up is what is thesports equivalent of this?
You just gave a great tip.
Fifteen minutes in the morning,fifteen minutes in the
afternoon.
Make a parallel for us.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, I was reading the compound effect by Darren
Hardy a while ago and he had agreat metaphor.
He said Olympic athletes thatwin the gold, they don't win by
a mile, right, they win by apoint or a millisecond or
whatever the equivalent is forthe sport.
They just went by a little bitmuch, a little bit more, but
(10:36):
they win ten times as much insponsorship money, prize money,
tv time, accolades.
They get the gold medal and allthey did was put in one extra
rep or you know, one extra swingor one extra free throw or one
extra, whatever the sport isright.
So it's not these big giantstrides that change, but it's
fifteen minutes here and there.
(10:57):
It's that extra rep, that extrabook that makes all the
difference.
And I think that you do get tenextra rewards by just putting
in a little bit more effort.
That's sort of how I thinkabout reading these books.
One percent change as acompound over time can lead to a
wildly different place in thesebooks are a great way to
(11:17):
identify and implement these onepercent changes.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Hey, make sense to me , put in that extra rep.
What?
What suggestions or what advicedo you have of getting the
right book?
So I can imagine, if you knowpeople start to do this and that
first book goes down like Ididn't get a whole lot out of
that or that wasn't really worthit.
They're probably gonna stop.
How do you, how do you get theright book?
What's your strategy forSifting through, you know,
(11:41):
starting a book, one on your, onyour path of four hundred?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think before jumping in and buying something
because you see it on Instagramor somebody else recommends it,
I would say Do a little personalinventory.
Ask yourself is there a problemthat you're dealing with on a
daily basis that could be solvedif you read about how somebody
else solved it?
I think that's the best placeto start, because you're
emotionally connected to theoutcome.
(12:05):
And then from there, I think weneed to set an intention for
the book and we need to followthe smart goal framework.
So smart stands for specific,measurable, attainable, relevant
.
Again, you're emotionallyconnected.
In time bound, you give yourselfa deadline and so let's say
you're dealing with an issue Atwork.
It's a leadership issue and youfind a good leadership book
(12:28):
that might help solve thatproblem for you.
But has somebody else overcameDelegation?
Set a goal find an implement atleast two delegation strategies
At work by the end of the month.
Right, that specific, it'smeasurable.
Find an implement at least twothings.
You know whether or not thebook achieve its goal.
It's attainable, not change athousand things just to some
(12:50):
motion.
You're emotionally connected to.
It's relevant.
You give yourself a deadline toachieve it by the end of
November or whatever the case is, and so solve that problem and
it's gonna feel so good when youdon't have to deal with it
anymore.
You'll say how can I get moreof that stuff?
I think that's what's gonnahappen.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Alright, I think I'm in for this.
I hope the listeners are tothis.
Might it might be the earliestepisode challenge that we've
dove into, but we'll circle backto that at the end.
I wanna go back to what yousaid earlier that you grew up.
Baseball was sort of first thenMike rabel, famous patriot
defensive defensive endlinebacker that caught a number
(13:27):
of touchdowns in the Super Bowl,playing on offense with Tom
Brady and kind of the heyday.
So he was your neighbor andsaid you want to church with
them and you know that reallySpark your interest in football.
Can you tell us more about yourrelationship with Mike and how
that sort of shaped who you arenow?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I ended up writing my seniorpaper applying to colleges about
my millionaire neighbor, myfamous neighbor, because he was
just such a normal guy like.
You could find him having abeer with my dad in the backyard
right.
But then you could also findhim catching touchdowns from Tom
Brady right unlike little trickplays and stuff.
(14:05):
And so I realized that thesefamous people on TV they're not
so different than we, are thenormal people.
They do normal things, they goto church, they raise kids, they
drive by your house, they playcatch with you in the front yard
, they have a beer with your dadlike.
And I think that was reallyimportant for me, because I was
pretty insecure when I wasyounger.
I cared way too much about whatother people thought of me.
(14:27):
I didn't have a ton of selfconfidence In front of other
people, and so I didn't knowwhat I could achieve in life.
And then here's this guy onSunday that everybody wants to
be like and be around, and he'sjust a normal guy.
And so that was a reallyimportant thing for me to
realize that these professionalathletes they're just normal
people and they're relatable.
And it also showed me I wasCapable of accomplishing
(14:51):
whatever I set my mind to andthat was exciting for me.
It opened up a lot ofinspiration and possibilities.
You know it'd be fun.
I should go back and try tofind that college paper and
reread it.
I mean, I probably haven't readit since it was written.
Yeah, you know, get it just forwhere my headspace was.
However, many years ago thatwas 12 years ago, something like
that- yeah, that's a great idea, okay, so Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So brable now is the Tennessee Titans coach and is
probably one of the best coachesin the league.
He's seems to me at least, as acreative strategist.
He is strong and accountabilityand sort of his expectations of
the team.
He seems to get the most out ofa roster that I don't think
anyone would say is in the toptier of the NFL, but he seems to
(15:38):
compete year in and year outand probably has a lot to do
with work ethic and some of thestuff that you mentioned and
being a regular guy.
Let's dive into some coachinganalogies.
So, nick, if you would, I'dlike to hear your top three,
maybe top five coaches in theNFL, but not just a list.
(15:58):
I'd like you to justify whyyou're drawn to them as coaches
and leaders.
What do you notice in your topcoaches in the NFL and their
leadership?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, born and raised in the Boston Massachusetts
area, I've witnessed a number ofsuper bulls under the great
coaching of Bill Belichick, so Ihave to throw them on the list.
My favorite, my favorite thingabout the Patriots and about
what Bill has created is thePatriot way.
Right, you show up, you do yourjob and that's what it's all
(16:33):
about.
That's what you're optimizingfor.
And he's been able to take somewild personalities over the
years people like Gronkowski,you know, and bringing in, you
know, even like Juju SmithSchuster this year, and some
people like that.
And then they fall in line andthey do their work and they show
up and they're allowed to havefun.
(16:53):
But I think that's like, Ithink that's a great thing that
he's able to do.
You know he's an older guy buthe's able to relate to some of
these younger people and say,hey, listen, you have the
opportunity to show up and doamazing things here and you have
to act that part and you'll getpenalized if you don't.
I remember before Book Thinkers,my agency took off.
(17:15):
I was working a full-time salesjob and I remember flying on
time with the CEO of thatcompany and I remember saying to
him hey, listen, I'm reallyenjoying my time here, but is
there opportunity for growth?
Like there are a number ofpeople ahead of me sales
directors, regional directorsand stuff like they've been here
for a while Do I have theopportunity to take their jobs
(17:36):
or is it sort of like aseniority thing?
And he said to me he goes.
You know what, nick?
I think a lot like BillBelichick does If a rookie shows
up and kicks the butt of aveteran, that rookie's on the
field.
It's about doing your job andhe's going to put the best
people in place to win.
Now, that hasn't been greatover the last two or three years
, but I think Belichick's agreat representation of that.
(17:58):
I'll mention a couple moreObviously, you asked me to give
three to five.
You know somebody who I'vebecome a bigger fan of over the
last couple of years and it'shard not to root for is Dan
Campbell.
The guy will get on camera,he'll cry, he'll yell, he's
relatable, he's just a man's manin a way, and I just I feel
like he's so vulnerable andtransparent that it's hard not
(18:21):
to root for him.
So very different than BillBelichick, who will not ever
answer a single question thatyou ask him, because that's the
Patriot way.
On the other side of thespectrum, here's somebody who
will answer everything and, likeI said, he'll cry on camera,
he'll yell, he'll swear, he'lljoke around.
Recently I think he was beinginterviewed and he said that he
(18:44):
was distracted during a playcall because he was looking at
the fans doing the wave, youknow, in the stadium and it's
like who else is going to admitthat on camera other than him?
So I have a lot of respect forhim for that reason.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, before you jump into the next one, I want to
just comment.
I think that's an importantlesson of leadership.
Authentic leadership is soimportant, right?
Dan Campbell could never beBill Belichick and Bill
Belichick could probably neverbe successful being Dan Campbell
.
So you might need to flex yourleadership style.
At times, you might need tomove yourself on the spectrum,
(19:17):
but you also need to know whoyou are, be comfortable with who
you are and lead that way,because that's how you're going
to build trust.
So I love that you gave twokind of polar opposites, and
just want to comment on thatbefore I turn it back to you for
any other coaches you wanted tocall out.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh yeah, of course I can give maybe two more examples
of again polar opposites.
So I've come to respect.
After the quarterbackdocumentary that Netflix put out
Patrick Mahomes was one of thefeatured quarterbacks I've come
to respect Andy Reid a littlebit more over the years.
I mean, obviously he's runninga very successful program and
the chiefs are not a team thathave a ton of weapons these days
(19:54):
, but they're still performingvery well.
And I saw a clip recently Ithink it was yeah, it was about
Andy Reid and when he draftedTravis Kelsey and he got on the
phone with Travis's brother andsaid, like who am I going to get
?
Like this wild, crazy guy, or amI going to get somebody who
shows up and takes thisseriously?
And he was willing to havethose conversations with
(20:16):
potential players, familymembers, in advance of drafting
them.
And so again, when you get thetransparency and you understand
that these are just people andthey're looking for
opportunities and they'rewilling to take risks, you know,
I think that's the sign of agreat leader and they've built a
great program over the lastcouple of years.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, that's great, and so I'll let you off the hook
with any more.
Three awesome answers.
As you've talked about this,nick, and the rise of your
writing and your company and soforth, I'm sure that you are
leading people in variouscapacities.
Love to hear a little bit abouthow, what your philosophy on
leadership is and what you tryto do and emulate for your staff
(20:56):
.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's a great question.
I've read so many books on somany amazing leaders and the
company that I've built and thepeople that I'm leading.
It's a little bit different.
We think about prioritizingpersonal flexibility and impact
over profit.
And so my business bookthinkers and the people on my
(21:18):
team everybody's locationindependent.
Nobody is being tracked as faras the number of hours that
they're working.
They're being tracked on outputand results, and if somebody
can do their 40 hour a week joband 20 hours a week from the
beach in Jamaica, great, I lovethat for them.
So, again I've just found in mylife I value personal
(21:39):
flexibility over profit.
I value community over profit,and so I've looked to just
continue to build a great teamand pour into them and focus my
time on them, and that's been abig piece of the internal
culture that we've built overthe last couple of years.
And I'll throw one more nameout there, which is Mike
(21:59):
McDaniel.
I know you let me off the hook,but here's a young coach who's
just free, flowing and flexibleand playing the music and
getting in the stands and it'ssuch a different environment
than what we're used to.
But he's like this new age ofcoaching who's doing something a
little bit different.
And I feel that way as abusiness owner.
(22:20):
It's not top down militantleadership anymore.
It's about let's have fun andlet's make sure that we're
having an impact and that we'refocused on enjoying our time,
and that's what I'm focused on.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I love Nick.
We preach servant leadership onthis podcast and in my day to
day, and it sounds like you livethat out in a lot of different
ways and I love hearing how youlead by output and not butts in
seats, and that you care aboutpeople being flexible and having
being the best selves inaddition to supporting the
(22:53):
company.
So I appreciate you sharingsome insights about book
thinkers.
I have a game for you if you'reup for it.
Of course, we're going to dobook comps.
So NFL draft.
Every year there's always playercomps.
How does this prospect comp toan existing NFL player?
As they're looking at the draft, I want to throw a couple books
(23:14):
at you some of my favoritebooks, and you to give me some
type of NFL comp to the book,and then I'm going to flip that
on his head and I'm going togive you three players and I'd
love to give you you to give usa comp of the book, and I'll try
my best.
We'll see how this goes.
We'll see how this goes.
I did not prep him for this.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So this is off the cuff.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
One of my favorite books is Mindset by Carol Dweck.
I'm sure you're familiar withit and I've talked about this on
the podcast.
I did a cool episode afterYanis' comment and losing the
playoffs this year and kind ofhow he alluded to growth mindset
.
So it was very transformationalfor me to get out of a fixed
mindset and I describe myself asa recovering perfectionist.
(23:57):
So what NFL comp do you have tothe book mindset?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Hmm, a growth mindset .
I Love Carol Dweck's work.
You know we'll go back to thelion said coach.
I think that I Think that he'sa great opportunity of like
accepting that there's room forimprovement, acknowledging that,
always striving for it,encouraging people to focus on
(24:24):
areas of improvement, and I Ilove this idea that we're all
capable of doing whatever we setour minds to do right, we can
ditch this preconceived notionthat we're limited by our
physical abilities, our mentalabilities.
No, like science shows that ourbrains are malleable and that
we can change and grow and adapt, and I just feel like that
(24:48):
Organization right now Was sobad two years ago and they're so
good right now and they have somuch momentum, and it stems
from that belief that it'scapable.
I think that's sort of where itall starts.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, it's such a good point the quarterback right
in the swap with Matt Staffordand it was like they thought
they were gonna cut them andhe's like no, jared Goff is our
guy, right, and they have stuckbehind that and they have in a
lot of ways, preached a growthmindset for Jared to step into
that role and to be the leader.
But they've lived that throughtheir actions where they had an
(25:22):
opportunity to trade up and takea quarterback or they had a
chance to bring in anotherveteran and they're like nope,
this has been our guy and it'sreally pain dividends.
He looks great.
He looks like an upper echelonquarterback.
As a Steeler fan, I I wish wehad him maybe get to that later,
but I think that's a reallygood representation.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
He was a number one overall pick.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Right, he was, yeah and he went to a.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Super Bowl early.
They lost to the Patriots andthat's Super Bowl.
But yeah, he went so early andthen fell and you could say he's
not capable of went, you knowwinning anymore.
But look at what's happened.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yep, that was, I think that like 13 to 3 Super
Bowl where, yeah, so fella checkreally just had an awesome game
plan against McVay and the Ramsand after that there was sort
of the knock on them that youknow they're never gonna be able
to win with him.
He was holding them back andhis stock, just like you said,
just plummeted like a rock.
But they've really built himback up and I think Dan Campbell
and the Lions organizationdeserve a lot of credit for that
(26:17):
.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
All right, book number two.
This is also one of my favoritebooks.
Thanks for the feedback bySheila heen and Doug Stone, and
this book is about.
I've talked about a few timeson the podcast around how we
often spend so much time Talkingabout how to give feedback, but
really the receiver feedback isthe one in control, whether
they take it or not.
(26:40):
So what is an NFL comp toThanks for the feedback man, an
NFL comp for thanks.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I have not read this book.
I'll put on your list.
Yeah, I'm a.
I'm a big as I.
I'll talk through, as I thinkI'm a big believer in
constructive feedback.
In my book, razz of the reader,I talk all about the importance
of building an accountabilitygroup of people who will hold
you accountable to yourpotential.
(27:08):
The path of most resistance,and I think that you know there
probably are a number of teamsand a number of organizations
who have taken feedback Over theyears and made a lot of
adjustments.
We'll toss one out there.
We'll just say the New YorkJets.
The Jets have been terrible fora very long time and I'm sure
(27:29):
that they've received a lot ofconstructive feedback.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know New York right, especially New York.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I mean, it's such a loud city, it's a, it's, it's a,
you know.
So, yeah, I would say the Jets.
Now, if Aaron Rodgers didn'tget hurt, the Jets would
probably be undefeated right now.
They've lost a couple of closegames, but they've.
They've shown up and won somebig ones too, and so they've
taken the feedback.
(27:54):
They've Drafted, but they'vealso I mean, they've drafted
well, like some young widereceiver and running back
weapons so I'm actually somedefensive weapons too, but
they've also, you know, grabsome people like Aaron and yeah.
I would say that's a team that'staken a lot of heat over the
(28:16):
years, but they've listened tothe feedback and they've made
adjustments and they're in agreat position now in a very
tough division with Miami andBuffalo and my Patriots, and
they're potentially a scary team.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I agree, all right.
Book number three Atomic habits.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You got a great book small steps in the right
direction, repeated over a longperiod of time.
You know, show up and do theright things a great lesson from
atomic habits again, I'mtalking out loud as I think
about a comparison.
Yeah, a great lesson for atomichabits is that every action you
take today is a vote for whoyou know, for the person that
(28:54):
you're becoming, and where youare today is a result of the
actions that you've taken in thepast, and if you want to change
, then you should change.
We'll go with the 49ers as ateam.
They just seem to show up anddo the right thing.
They're not incredibly flashy Imean they do have some very
flashy players but they justseem to do the right thing.
(29:16):
I think Brock Purdy just threwhis first interception on the
year last week, and so he'ssomebody who just small steps in
the right direction, not goingfor anything crazy, just playing
good football, good traditionalfootball.
They have a strong running game, which is the foundation for a
lot of offenses.
They have an amazing defenseand they just do the right
(29:37):
things, and that's what atomichabits preach is like.
Where you're gonna end up atthe end of the season is a
result of the daily Actions, theinputs every single day and
they they seem like a teamthat's doing that really well
right now.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, it's a great comp.
Brock Purdy, mr Relevant, lastpick in the draft.
Most of those folks don't evenlast, let alone Become the
starting quarterback of ahigh-powered offense, and I
think if he didn't have thatmindset of get a little better
with each snap and get a littlebetter each day in practice, he
probably wouldn't be where he is.
So I like the comp All right.
Now I'm flipping the game onyou.
(30:11):
I'm gonna give you threeplayers and you're gonna tell us
what book comes to mind and whyokay.
All right, first one we're gonnago with Patrick Mahomes by the
the face of the league at thispoint, chief's quarterback.
What book comes to mind whenyou think of Mahomes?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Well, again, I loved watching this quarterback
documentary thing on netflixbecause you really got to see
who pat is behind the scenes.
He is somebody who shows up Dayin and day out.
He's very focused on mobility,flexibility, injury recovery,
injury prevention.
But also he's well balanced.
(30:51):
I mean he has a family now it's.
It looks like he's rolling withlike 20 people everywhere that
he goes, and he's young guy wentin super bowls.
So who's a good represent?
What's a good bookrepresentation?
For that?
I'll tell you what Hundredmillion dollar offers by alex
hormose.
So alex hormose is a youngentrepreneur.
(31:15):
He's built a very big portfolioand he seems super well
balanced.
He just does the right things.
He shows up every single day,and so I'm making more of a
comparison to the author.
But his book does the samething.
He simplifies very complexbusiness language and he teaches
it and a well balanced sort ofeasy to digest way, and that's
(31:36):
what patrick, my home, does.
He's just balanced, and sothat's what comes to mind first,
at least.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
All right, I love it.
You're a.
You're one for one on thisawesome start.
My next one I gotta go with my,my stealers, my stealers love,
so I'm gonna give you, can youpick it a?
There was high hopes for Kennycoming into the year.
I struggled a little bit out ofthe gate.
Definitely some concerns andfits very around the offensive
coordinator and the coaching.
(32:02):
Who comes to mind?
What book comes to mind whenyou hear Kenny pick it?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
yeah, well, when I hear Kenny pick it I hear high
hopes, kind of in a period offlux right now.
So there are a number of booksthat I've had really high hopes
for that just really haven'tlived up to my expectations.
So I'll go with.
Start with why by simon cynicbook that was very popular, lot
(32:30):
of high hopes.
When I open that thing up andfor me, just didn't do, it
didn't live up to theexpectations, now that doesn't
mean that it can't rebound,right, I could read the book
again and it could change mylife, you never know.
So I think there's always animportant opportunity to give a
chance.
But yeah, that's a.
That's what my mind goes to I'mhoping Kenny has a rebound.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Alright, and my last one you mentioned Mike McDaniel
previously, so I'm gonna takeyou to to a what do you got for
to us?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Listen, I was at the.
I was at the Miami new englandgame a few weeks ago where we
got our butts kicked.
Yeah, it was fun to watch, tolight it up.
Didn't light it up that much inthat game, but he lights it up
every single week.
So when I think of to right now,I think of to a and tyreek
almost as like a duo.
Yeah, because I think a lot ofto a success right now is based
(33:25):
on His wide receiving corp.
Got waddle, I mean he's got acouple of amazing half backs.
He even has the best full backin the league, alec engolt.
Shout out, alec is an author.
So when I think of to, I thinkof somebody who almost like a
home run hitter.
You know what's a good exampleof a home run hitter that just
(33:45):
knocks it out of the park.
Every time you read it Is thiskind of what's happening right
now with that.
My offense putting up points afew weeks ago I'll go with can't
hurt me by David Goggins.
I mean there's not a person onthe planet that I recommend that
book to where just doesn'tknock, knock it out of the park
for them.
And that's sort of what'shappening with to a he's just
(34:05):
willing to like throw that longball and he's got the fastest,
got the fastest five players inthe league to back him up.
So that's what I think aboutalright.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Hey, nick, that was awesome.
I have not done book comps everbefore.
No one that could do it better,so Thanks for playing along.
Now that we've talked at thesports angle, I'm guessing
people are super interested inthis.
I'm really interested and Ican't stop thinking about the
fifteen minutes and I'm probablywasting in the morning and at
night that I could be doingsomething productive with.
(34:35):
Tell us more about what you'redoing when the books coming out,
how people can learn more aboutyou and learn more from you.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
What, just over the years of building my community,
it's called book thinkers oninstagram.
We have about a hundred andfifty thousand book lovers in
that community and put up bookrecommendations every day.
I've just received the samequestions, the same problems,
hundreds and hundreds of times,like how do I choose the right
book, how do I take effectivenotes, how do I implement these
(35:04):
books to change my life?
And so, yes, I've decided towrite the book on solving that
problem here.
Now it's on both sides rise ofthe reader yeah and this book
can help you get more from theother books that you're reading.
I mean, that's the primaryvalue here.
I hope that the fifteen minuteexample that we talked about
before resonates with everybodya little bit, because it's not
(35:24):
about working a thousand hours aweek.
It's about doing the rightactivity that creates leverage
so that you can enjoy thepassage of time and that you
don't end up regretting nothaving done more.
These books are the mostbeautiful shortcut that I'm
aware of on the planet forliving an enjoyable lifestyle,
and this book, rise of thereader, can help you get more
(35:45):
out of it.
So, as far as launch day,november, first available for
preorder now and then availableeverywhere on november.
First you can find it on amazon.
You can check out our instagramand find links in the bio book
thinkers on instagram.
And yeah, I wanna make readingcool again.
I did switch from jock to nerd,but I think that there's some
(36:06):
cool parts about being a nerdthat people don't talk about.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I love it.
I a we talk about the worldneeds more leaders on on this
show and how, if we had moreleaders in the world, the world
would be a better place andeveryone can do their part to
get a little better and become abetter leader all the time.
And I think you've given us ahack, you've given us a cheat
code, a shortcut.
How can we take advantage ofsmall steps of reading and
(36:30):
incorporate and learn from, asyou mentioned some of the math
earlier, the thousands andthousands of years and days and
hours of people the condensedown to you know short passages
that we can learn from?
So we always do an episodechallenge before our listeners
Turn this off and start the nextepisode over the next couple
(36:51):
weeks, what is something thatthey can do to put into practice
?
So you gave the early exampleof the fifteen and fifteen.
Can you give us another one inaddition to that everyone can do
to take a step in the rightdirection?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yes, absolutely.
How about this, If anybodywants a custom book
recommendation from me?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
so.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
DM me on Instagram, tell me about a problem that
you're facing, tell me about askill that you want to improve
or something in between, andI'll make a custom book
recommendation.
So I think the challenge couldbe let's get started, let's go
from non-readers to readers.
Let's go out there and buy abook.
We'll set a good intention,We'll schedule our reading time,
read the book.
(37:33):
I have a whole spreadsheettracking system where I love to
follow up with people and see ifthey've read the books that
I've recommended and if theywere able to take educated
action, efficient action and ifany life change happens, so
that's available to anybody thatwants it.
I am available, I answer everymessage, and nothing brings me
more joy than hearing about howthese books change lives.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Sounds like there are zero excuses.
Mike Tomlin would like that.
All you got to do is give Nicka reach out to Nick on Instagram
, ask him for a bookrecommendation.
So do a little thought of whatproblem are you trying to solve?
I think all of us are trying tosolve some problem.
Ask Nick what's the right bookand then start reading it.
Trade out 15 minutes of screentime and trade in 15 minutes of
(38:16):
reading a book.
Look, I can't thank you enoughfor coming on the show sharing
all your wisdom, telling usabout book thinkers and rise of
the reader.
As I mentioned, I am someonewho struggled to read and
maximize reading and probably am, in my own head, making excuses
, and you've taken those excusesright out.
So I think all of us, myselfincluded, let's take that step
(38:38):
from going from non-readers toreaders.
Let's become better leaders,and Nick will link all your info
and the show notes and noexcuses.
Let's take that next step.
Thanks again for coming on,nick.
Anything you want to share toclose this out?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah, I'll just share .
This was a really cool showformat.
It was very different than anyother podcast that I've been on.
Obviously, I'm talking aboutbooks most of the time, not
sports, but this was a greatintersection between books,
sports and leadership and it waschallenging to do the book
comps, but it was a really funexercise and I sort of had to
dig deep and create metaphorsand so I had a good time.
(39:18):
I hope everybody else had agood time listening and thank
you for the challenge.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Thank, you for the opportunity.
I'm grateful for you.
Thanks a lot for all thatyou're doing and, like I said,
check out Nick's stuff.
I think you'll get a lot out ofit.
Take care everyone.
Alright, thanks for tuning in.
I am really excited about thisepisode Chance to talk about one
of my absolute favorite things,which is self-development, and
to do that I have a true expertjoining me today.
Nick Hutchinson is the authorof the upcoming book Rise of the
Reader.
So Nick has read over 400self-development books and is a
(00:32):
true expert at learning how totake those nuggets from the book
and apply them.
And he is going to drop someknowledge on us, Nick.
Welcome to Leadership.
Jock Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, I'm excited to be here, Nate.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, you got it To kick us off.
Would you mind just sharingwith the listeners a little bit
about yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sure.
So what might surpriseeverybody that can visualize my
background, which has like athousand books, is that I was
not much of a reader growing up.
I didn't care much for personaldevelopment.
I was more of the athletestereotype through middle school
, high school, not really muchof the academic.
I played football.
In fact, my senior year we gotto play in Gillette Stadium on
(01:15):
live TV, which was a lot of fun,and I was captain of the
wrestling team.
So those were the things that Ifocused on growing up.
But it all changed for me goinginto my senior year of college
because I took an internship ata local software company and my
boss at the time, kyle.
He recognized that I had somepotential that I wasn't
necessarily fulfilling and hesaid hey, listen, man, you
(01:37):
commute about an hour each wayto this internship five days a
week.
That's 10 hours a week in thecar.
Why don't you try listening tosome podcasts instead of music?
Right, like these business orpersonal development styles,
shows might help you get closerto where you want to be in life.
And so I started to listen tothese podcasts and very quickly
I realized that so many of thesepeople being interviewed, these
(02:00):
successful people, they gave atleast some credit for their
success to the books that theywere reading, and so everything
switched for me.
I went from a non reader to abig time reader almost overnight
, and I have not looked back.
Over the last 10 years I'veread hundreds and hundreds and
hundreds of books, and I'vereally enjoyed getting into this
world of personal development.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So you've traded teams from jock to nerd almost.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yes, I have.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
But, as I understand, you still follow sports.
So you're taking in all thisself development, you're
learning, but you're still asports fan.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about your relationship
with sports?
You said you grew up footballand wrestling and kind of who
you follow and how you followsports still.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah well, growing up in the Boston Massachusetts
area over the last 29 years hasbeen great.
Obviously, there are a lot ofvery storied.
Yeah, good timing right.
There are a lot of very storiedfranchises up in the New
England area, and so when I wasyounger I paid more attention, I
think, to the Red Sox.
I mean it was a lot of fungrowing up watching David Ortiz,
(03:07):
manny Ramirez, pedro NomarGarcia-Pera, and my dad was a
really big Red Sox fan too, so Ipaid a lot of attention to the
Red Sox.
When my dad was a little bityounger he worked for a company
that sold a lot of Converse andas a result they worked with
some athletes on the Celtics,and so my dad spent a lot of
(03:28):
time around Larry Bird, robertParrish, kevin McHale in the
locker room going to these games, and so I grew up sort of in
with a house where the basementwas like all sports member Billy
and stuff.
And then during my kind of latelet's see what year's late
middle school, early high school, mike Vrabel, patriot, former
(03:51):
Patriot linebacker, and I, headcoach of the Titans, was
neighbors with my parents, andso I had a lot of great access
to the team.
We went to church with hisfamily on a lot of Sundays and I
got to know his kids, and sothen I got into football and I
started to pay a lot ofattention to football.
So today I'm still a bigPatriots fan, but I'm more like
an NFL fan these days becausethe Patriots sort of stink.
(04:14):
So I play a lot of fantasyfootball.
I watch football on Thursday,sunday and Monday and I'm a big
fan of the league.
I think there's a lot offantastic personal development
lessons in watching a sport likefootball as well.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
All right, yeah, thanks for the background, nick.
Friends of the show know thatwe should be enemies, with my
Pittsburgh allegiance andprobably some jealousy for all
the championships Boston's hadover the last several years.
But Nick is such a smart andgreat guy that we're not going
to hold it against them and diveinto some of the self
development stuff.
And I want to double click backinto that comment about Rable
(04:50):
being your neighbor a little bitlater.
But let's jump into some of thereading.
So I'll put it out there I amnot a very effective reader.
It's maybe why I like doing andlistening to podcasts a little
bit more.
I imagine some of my listenersare in a similar boat, where you
kind of read these books, oryou try to read these books and
you don't get a lot out of them,and I think that's really part
(05:11):
of your message, right?
How do you not just read booksfor the heck of it, but how do
you apply them?
Drop some knowledge on this,nick.
What is your secret or what canyou share with us ahead of the
book?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, I'll say a couple of things, because I
believe that our ability to readand implement personal
development information is oneof the most underutilized skill
sets that we all possess today.
I mean 10 years ago.
I was insecure on one side ofthe spectrum, filled with ego
and emotionally reactive on theother.
I, you know, as a recentcollege graduate, I didn't
(05:44):
really have my wits about me.
Financially, I wasn't thehealthiest, I didn't focus on a
lot of those things, and now I'mliving my dream life, and it's
been less than 10 years.
Like I do joke around, I'm 29years old, but if you include
all of the books behind me, I'mthousands of years old, because
people live amazing lives andthen they end up condensing
(06:04):
decades of lived experience intodays of reading.
They spend their entire livesfiguring out how to solve the
same problems that we're dealingwith today, and then they give
you the solution for $20 in afew hours of your time, and then
we choose to ignore the adviceand spend all this time trying
to figure it out ourselves, andso I think that's inefficient.
(06:25):
That's what I have to say aboutit.
So over the last 10 years, I'veread books about everything that
you can imagine.
I mean, every single time aproblem pops up, there's a book
about how somebody else solvedthat problem, and if you can
read and implement iteffectively, you can solve the
problem too.
I'll kind of finish thisemotional rant by saying that if
(06:47):
you are dealing if anybodylistening or watching this is
dealing with the same problem ona daily basis, check out the
following math Over the next 30years, you're going to deal with
that problem 11,000 times,right?
30 times 365.
So why not spend a few dollars,a few hours of your time, solve
the problem so that you don'thave to deal with it 10,950 more
(07:11):
times, right, if you take 50days to fix it?
That's how I think abouteverything in my life right now,
because these books they'relike magic, they're like a
shortcut and they're availableto us in a lot of ways for free,
and we choose not to read them.
And it just kind of blows mymind.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
The math resonates with me for sure.
So I'm going to put you on thespot a little bit.
If you don't mind, hit me, I'llput myself out there.
So I would say managing a lot.
Maybe that's some level ofovercapacity stress.
So I got three young kids, Ihave a big job, I do a podcast
on the side, I try to work outevery day and there's not enough
(07:52):
hours in the day and I feellike I'm always disappointing
someone or something, either myfamily, my work or myself.
And I, how do I, if I'm stuckright and that problem has
probably been persisting for alittle while how do I get
started Right If I'm stuck?
How do I get past the inertiato find a book, start a book,
get going?
Give me a tip.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Okay, I will give you a tip.
First I'd like to ask aquestion.
If I paid you Twenty thousanddollars to read a book by the
end of the month, what do wehave?
Like two weeks left?
Do you think you could do itLike would?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
you be motivated to do that.
Yeah, I'll get that done yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So it's not a question of whether or not you
can read, but it is a questionof whether or not you value the
reading enough to prioritize itover some of the other things in
your schedule, and I thinkthat's the case for all of us.
It's a question of value andpriority.
But let's say that I, you know,had that magic wand and I could
afford to pay twenty grand.
And now you're reading.
How would you fit it in?
Instead of trying to find time,I recommend replacing low
(08:54):
impact activities, like a littlebit of social media or a little
bit of netflix or whateveryou're watching in the evening,
with reading a great book, maybeeven a little bit of football
from time to time.
And the following math ispretty surprising, but kind of
follow me here.
So if you spent fifteen minutesin the morning reading right by
replacing a little bit ofscrolling, and fifteen minutes
(09:15):
in the evening reading byreplacing a little bit of sports
, that's thirty minutes a day.
Now, if you're just startingout, thirty minutes is
equivalent to twenty pages.
Twenty pages five days a weekmonday through friday is a
hundred pages a week.
That's a book every two weeksor every three weeks.
That's twenty six books.
Twenty to twenty six books overthe course of the next twelve
(09:38):
months, simply by replacing alittle bit of social media and a
little bit of netflix withreading a good book.
So that's what myrecommendation would be schedule
it into your calendar and don'tre prioritize family or work or
the gym, but maybe a little bitof some of those other things
that you could probably find.
If you looked on your screentime.
(09:58):
You know there's probably a fewareas in there that don't
matter so much, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, it's great.
Alright.
My follow up is what is thesports equivalent of this?
You just gave a great tip.
Fifteen minutes in the morning,fifteen minutes in the
afternoon.
Make a parallel for us.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, I was reading the compound effect by Darren
Hardy a while ago and he had agreat metaphor.
He said Olympic athletes thatwin the gold, they don't win by
a mile, right, they win by apoint or a millisecond or
whatever the equivalent is forthe sport.
They just went by a little bitmuch, a little bit more, but
(10:36):
they win ten times as much insponsorship money, prize money,
tv time, accolades.
They get the gold medal and allthey did was put in one extra
rep or you know, one extra swingor one extra free throw or one
extra, whatever the sport isright.
So it's not these big giantstrides that change, but it's
fifteen minutes here and there.
(10:57):
It's that extra rep, that extrabook that makes all the
difference.
And I think that you do get tenextra rewards by just putting
in a little bit more effort.
That's sort of how I thinkabout reading these books.
One percent change as acompound over time can lead to a
wildly different place in thesebooks are a great way to
(11:17):
identify and implement these onepercent changes.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Hey, make sense to me , put in that extra rep.
What?
What suggestions or what advicedo you have of getting the
right book?
So I can imagine, if you knowpeople start to do this and that
first book goes down like Ididn't get a whole lot out of
that or that wasn't really worthit.
They're probably gonna stop.
How do you, how do you get theright book?
What's your strategy forSifting through, you know,
(11:41):
starting a book, one on your, onyour path of four hundred?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think before jumping in and buying something
because you see it on Instagramor somebody else recommends it,
I would say Do a little personalinventory.
Ask yourself is there a problemthat you're dealing with on a
daily basis that could be solvedif you read about how somebody
else solved it?
I think that's the best placeto start, because you're
emotionally connected to theoutcome.
(12:05):
And then from there, I think weneed to set an intention for
the book and we need to followthe smart goal framework.
So smart stands for specific,measurable, attainable, relevant
.
Again, you're emotionallyconnected.
In time bound, you give yourselfa deadline and so let's say
you're dealing with an issue Atwork.
It's a leadership issue and youfind a good leadership book
(12:28):
that might help solve thatproblem for you.
But has somebody else overcameDelegation?
Set a goal find an implement atleast two delegation strategies
At work by the end of the month.
Right, that specific, it'smeasurable.
Find an implement at least twothings.
You know whether or not thebook achieve its goal.
It's attainable, not change athousand things just to some
(12:50):
motion.
You're emotionally connected to.
It's relevant.
You give yourself a deadline toachieve it by the end of
November or whatever the case is, and so solve that problem and
it's gonna feel so good when youdon't have to deal with it
anymore.
You'll say how can I get moreof that stuff?
I think that's what's gonnahappen.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Alright, I think I'm in for this.
I hope the listeners are tothis.
Might it might be the earliestepisode challenge that we've
dove into, but we'll circle backto that at the end.
I wanna go back to what yousaid earlier that you grew up.
Baseball was sort of first thenMike rabel, famous patriot
defensive defensive endlinebacker that caught a number
(13:27):
of touchdowns in the Super Bowl,playing on offense with Tom
Brady and kind of the heyday.
So he was your neighbor andsaid you want to church with
them and you know that reallySpark your interest in football.
Can you tell us more about yourrelationship with Mike and how
that sort of shaped who you arenow?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I ended up writing my seniorpaper applying to colleges about
my millionaire neighbor, myfamous neighbor, because he was
just such a normal guy like.
You could find him having abeer with my dad in the backyard
right.
But then you could also findhim catching touchdowns from Tom
Brady right unlike little trickplays and stuff.
(14:05):
And so I realized that thesefamous people on TV they're not
so different than we, are thenormal people.
They do normal things, they goto church, they raise kids, they
drive by your house, they playcatch with you in the front yard
, they have a beer with your dadlike.
And I think that was reallyimportant for me, because I was
pretty insecure when I wasyounger.
I cared way too much about whatother people thought of me.
(14:27):
I didn't have a ton of selfconfidence In front of other
people, and so I didn't knowwhat I could achieve in life.
And then here's this guy onSunday that everybody wants to
be like and be around, and he'sjust a normal guy.
And so that was a reallyimportant thing for me to
realize that these professionalathletes they're just normal
people and they're relatable.
And it also showed me I wasCapable of accomplishing
(14:51):
whatever I set my mind to andthat was exciting for me.
It opened up a lot ofinspiration and possibilities.
You know it'd be fun.
I should go back and try tofind that college paper and
reread it.
I mean, I probably haven't readit since it was written.
Yeah, you know, get it just forwhere my headspace was.
However, many years ago thatwas 12 years ago, something like
that- yeah, that's a great idea, okay, so Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So brable now is the Tennessee Titans coach and is
probably one of the best coachesin the league.
He's seems to me at least, as acreative strategist.
He is strong and accountabilityand sort of his expectations of
the team.
He seems to get the most out ofa roster that I don't think
anyone would say is in the toptier of the NFL, but he seems to
(15:38):
compete year in and year outand probably has a lot to do
with work ethic and some of thestuff that you mentioned and
being a regular guy.
Let's dive into some coachinganalogies.
So, nick, if you would, I'dlike to hear your top three,
maybe top five coaches in theNFL, but not just a list.
(15:58):
I'd like you to justify whyyou're drawn to them as coaches
and leaders.
What do you notice in your topcoaches in the NFL and their
leadership?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, born and raised in the Boston Massachusetts
area, I've witnessed a number ofsuper bulls under the great
coaching of Bill Belichick, so Ihave to throw them on the list.
My favorite, my favorite thingabout the Patriots and about
what Bill has created is thePatriot way.
Right, you show up, you do yourjob and that's what it's all
(16:33):
about.
That's what you're optimizingfor.
And he's been able to take somewild personalities over the
years people like Gronkowski,you know, and bringing in, you
know, even like Juju SmithSchuster this year, and some
people like that.
And then they fall in line andthey do their work and they show
up and they're allowed to havefun.
(16:53):
But I think that's like, Ithink that's a great thing that
he's able to do.
You know he's an older guy buthe's able to relate to some of
these younger people and say,hey, listen, you have the
opportunity to show up and doamazing things here and you have
to act that part and you'll getpenalized if you don't.
I remember before Book Thinkers,my agency took off.
(17:15):
I was working a full-time salesjob and I remember flying on
time with the CEO of thatcompany and I remember saying to
him hey, listen, I'm reallyenjoying my time here, but is
there opportunity for growth?
Like there are a number ofpeople ahead of me sales
directors, regional directorsand stuff like they've been here
for a while Do I have theopportunity to take their jobs
(17:36):
or is it sort of like aseniority thing?
And he said to me he goes.
You know what, nick?
I think a lot like BillBelichick does If a rookie shows
up and kicks the butt of aveteran, that rookie's on the
field.
It's about doing your job andhe's going to put the best
people in place to win.
Now, that hasn't been greatover the last two or three years
, but I think Belichick's agreat representation of that.
(17:58):
I'll mention a couple moreObviously, you asked me to give
three to five.
You know somebody who I'vebecome a bigger fan of over the
last couple of years and it'shard not to root for is Dan
Campbell.
The guy will get on camera,he'll cry, he'll yell, he's
relatable, he's just a man's manin a way, and I just I feel
like he's so vulnerable andtransparent that it's hard not
(18:21):
to root for him.
So very different than BillBelichick, who will not ever
answer a single question thatyou ask him, because that's the
Patriot way.
On the other side of thespectrum, here's somebody who
will answer everything and, likeI said, he'll cry on camera,
he'll yell, he'll swear, he'lljoke around.
Recently I think he was beinginterviewed and he said that he
(18:44):
was distracted during a playcall because he was looking at
the fans doing the wave, youknow, in the stadium and it's
like who else is going to admitthat on camera other than him?
So I have a lot of respect forhim for that reason.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, before you jump into the next one, I want to
just comment.
I think that's an importantlesson of leadership.
Authentic leadership is soimportant, right?
Dan Campbell could never beBill Belichick and Bill
Belichick could probably neverbe successful being Dan Campbell
.
So you might need to flex yourleadership style.
At times, you might need tomove yourself on the spectrum,
(19:17):
but you also need to know whoyou are, be comfortable with who
you are and lead that way,because that's how you're going
to build trust.
So I love that you gave twokind of polar opposites, and
just want to comment on thatbefore I turn it back to you for
any other coaches you wanted tocall out.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh yeah, of course I can give maybe two more examples
of again polar opposites.
So I've come to respect.
After the quarterbackdocumentary that Netflix put out
Patrick Mahomes was one of thefeatured quarterbacks I've come
to respect Andy Reid a littlebit more over the years.
I mean, obviously he's runninga very successful program and
the chiefs are not a team thathave a ton of weapons these days
(19:54):
, but they're still performingvery well.
And I saw a clip recently Ithink it was yeah, it was about
Andy Reid and when he draftedTravis Kelsey and he got on the
phone with Travis's brother andsaid, like who am I going to get
?
Like this wild, crazy guy, or amI going to get somebody who
shows up and takes thisseriously?
And he was willing to havethose conversations with
(20:16):
potential players, familymembers, in advance of drafting
them.
And so again, when you get thetransparency and you understand
that these are just people andthey're looking for
opportunities and they'rewilling to take risks, you know,
I think that's the sign of agreat leader and they've built a
great program over the lastcouple of years.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, that's great, and so I'll let you off the hook
with any more.
Three awesome answers.
As you've talked about this,nick, and the rise of your
writing and your company and soforth, I'm sure that you are
leading people in variouscapacities.
Love to hear a little bit abouthow, what your philosophy on
leadership is and what you tryto do and emulate for your staff
(20:56):
.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's a great question.
I've read so many books on somany amazing leaders and the
company that I've built and thepeople that I'm leading.
It's a little bit different.
We think about prioritizingpersonal flexibility and impact
over profit.
And so my business bookthinkers and the people on my
(21:18):
team everybody's locationindependent.
Nobody is being tracked as faras the number of hours that
they're working.
They're being tracked on outputand results, and if somebody
can do their 40 hour a week joband 20 hours a week from the
beach in Jamaica, great, I lovethat for them.
So, again I've just found in mylife I value personal
(21:39):
flexibility over profit.
I value community over profit,and so I've looked to just
continue to build a great teamand pour into them and focus my
time on them, and that's been abig piece of the internal
culture that we've built overthe last couple of years.
And I'll throw one more nameout there, which is Mike
(21:59):
McDaniel.
I know you let me off the hook,but here's a young coach who's
just free, flowing and flexibleand playing the music and
getting in the stands and it'ssuch a different environment
than what we're used to.
But he's like this new age ofcoaching who's doing something a
little bit different.
And I feel that way as abusiness owner.
(22:20):
It's not top down militantleadership anymore.
It's about let's have fun andlet's make sure that we're
having an impact and that we'refocused on enjoying our time,
and that's what I'm focused on.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I love Nick.
We preach servant leadership onthis podcast and in my day to
day, and it sounds like you livethat out in a lot of different
ways and I love hearing how youlead by output and not butts in
seats, and that you care aboutpeople being flexible and having
being the best selves inaddition to supporting the
(22:53):
company.
So I appreciate you sharingsome insights about book
thinkers.
I have a game for you if you'reup for it.
Of course, we're going to dobook comps.
So NFL draft.
Every year there's always playercomps.
How does this prospect comp toan existing NFL player?
As they're looking at the draft, I want to throw a couple books
(23:14):
at you some of my favoritebooks, and you to give me some
type of NFL comp to the book,and then I'm going to flip that
on his head and I'm going togive you three players and I'd
love to give you you to give usa comp of the book, and I'll try
my best.
We'll see how this goes.
We'll see how this goes.
I did not prep him for this.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So this is off the cuff.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
One of my favorite books is Mindset by Carol Dweck.
I'm sure you're familiar withit and I've talked about this on
the podcast.
I did a cool episode afterYanis' comment and losing the
playoffs this year and kind ofhow he alluded to growth mindset
.
So it was very transformationalfor me to get out of a fixed
mindset and I describe myself asa recovering perfectionist.
(23:57):
So what NFL comp do you have tothe book mindset?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Hmm, a growth mindset .
I Love Carol Dweck's work.
You know we'll go back to thelion said coach.
I think that I Think that he'sa great opportunity of like
accepting that there's room forimprovement, acknowledging that,
always striving for it,encouraging people to focus on
(24:24):
areas of improvement, and I Ilove this idea that we're all
capable of doing whatever we setour minds to do right, we can
ditch this preconceived notionthat we're limited by our
physical abilities, our mentalabilities.
No, like science shows that ourbrains are malleable and that
we can change and grow and adapt, and I just feel like that
(24:48):
Organization right now Was sobad two years ago and they're so
good right now and they have somuch momentum, and it stems
from that belief that it'scapable.
I think that's sort of where itall starts.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, it's such a good point the quarterback right
in the swap with Matt Staffordand it was like they thought
they were gonna cut them andhe's like no, jared Goff is our
guy, right, and they have stuckbehind that and they have in a
lot of ways, preached a growthmindset for Jared to step into
that role and to be the leader.
But they've lived that throughtheir actions where they had an
(25:22):
opportunity to trade up and takea quarterback or they had a
chance to bring in anotherveteran and they're like nope,
this has been our guy and it'sreally pain dividends.
He looks great.
He looks like an upper echelonquarterback.
As a Steeler fan, I I wish wehad him maybe get to that later,
but I think that's a reallygood representation.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
He was a number one overall pick.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Right, he was, yeah and he went to a.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Super Bowl early.
They lost to the Patriots andthat's Super Bowl.
But yeah, he went so early andthen fell and you could say he's
not capable of went, you knowwinning anymore.
But look at what's happened.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yep, that was, I think that like 13 to 3 Super
Bowl where, yeah, so fella checkreally just had an awesome game
plan against McVay and the Ramsand after that there was sort
of the knock on them that youknow they're never gonna be able
to win with him.
He was holding them back andhis stock, just like you said,
just plummeted like a rock.
But they've really built himback up and I think Dan Campbell
and the Lions organizationdeserve a lot of credit for that
(26:17):
.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
All right, book number two.
This is also one of my favoritebooks.
Thanks for the feedback bySheila heen and Doug Stone, and
this book is about.
I've talked about a few timeson the podcast around how we
often spend so much time Talkingabout how to give feedback, but
really the receiver feedback isthe one in control, whether
they take it or not.
(26:40):
So what is an NFL comp toThanks for the feedback man, an
NFL comp for thanks.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I have not read this book.
I'll put on your list.
Yeah, I'm a.
I'm a big as I.
I'll talk through, as I thinkI'm a big believer in
constructive feedback.
In my book, razz of the reader,I talk all about the importance
of building an accountabilitygroup of people who will hold
you accountable to yourpotential.
(27:08):
The path of most resistance,and I think that you know there
probably are a number of teamsand a number of organizations
who have taken feedback Over theyears and made a lot of
adjustments.
We'll toss one out there.
We'll just say the New YorkJets.
The Jets have been terrible fora very long time and I'm sure
(27:29):
that they've received a lot ofconstructive feedback.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know New York right, especially New York.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I mean, it's such a loud city, it's a, it's, it's a,
you know.
So, yeah, I would say the Jets.
Now, if Aaron Rodgers didn'tget hurt, the Jets would
probably be undefeated right now.
They've lost a couple of closegames, but they've.
They've shown up and won somebig ones too, and so they've
taken the feedback.
(27:54):
They've Drafted, but they'vealso I mean, they've drafted
well, like some young widereceiver and running back
weapons so I'm actually somedefensive weapons too, but
they've also, you know, grabsome people like Aaron and yeah.
I would say that's a team that'staken a lot of heat over the
(28:16):
years, but they've listened tothe feedback and they've made
adjustments and they're in agreat position now in a very
tough division with Miami andBuffalo and my Patriots, and
they're potentially a scary team.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I agree, all right.
Book number three Atomic habits.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You got a great book small steps in the right
direction, repeated over a longperiod of time.
You know, show up and do theright things a great lesson from
atomic habits again, I'mtalking out loud as I think
about a comparison.
Yeah, a great lesson for atomichabits is that every action you
take today is a vote for whoyou know, for the person that
(28:54):
you're becoming, and where youare today is a result of the
actions that you've taken in thepast, and if you want to change
, then you should change.
We'll go with the 49ers as ateam.
They just seem to show up anddo the right thing.
They're not incredibly flashy Imean they do have some very
flashy players but they justseem to do the right thing.
(29:16):
I think Brock Purdy just threwhis first interception on the
year last week, and so he'ssomebody who just small steps in
the right direction, not goingfor anything crazy, just playing
good football, good traditionalfootball.
They have a strong running game, which is the foundation for a
lot of offenses.
They have an amazing defenseand they just do the right
(29:37):
things, and that's what atomichabits preach is like.
Where you're gonna end up atthe end of the season is a
result of the daily Actions, theinputs every single day and
they they seem like a teamthat's doing that really well
right now.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, it's a great comp.
Brock Purdy, mr Relevant, lastpick in the draft.
Most of those folks don't evenlast, let alone Become the
starting quarterback of ahigh-powered offense, and I
think if he didn't have thatmindset of get a little better
with each snap and get a littlebetter each day in practice, he
probably wouldn't be where he is.
So I like the comp All right.
Now I'm flipping the game onyou.
(30:11):
I'm gonna give you threeplayers and you're gonna tell us
what book comes to mind and whyokay.
All right, first one we're gonnago with Patrick Mahomes by the
the face of the league at thispoint, chief's quarterback.
What book comes to mind whenyou think of Mahomes?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Well, again, I loved watching this quarterback
documentary thing on netflixbecause you really got to see
who pat is behind the scenes.
He is somebody who shows up Dayin and day out.
He's very focused on mobility,flexibility, injury recovery,
injury prevention.
But also he's well balanced.
(30:51):
I mean he has a family now it's.
It looks like he's rolling withlike 20 people everywhere that
he goes, and he's young guy wentin super bowls.
So who's a good represent?
What's a good bookrepresentation?
For that?
I'll tell you what Hundredmillion dollar offers by alex
hormose.
So alex hormose is a youngentrepreneur.
(31:15):
He's built a very big portfolioand he seems super well
balanced.
He just does the right things.
He shows up every single day,and so I'm making more of a
comparison to the author.
But his book does the samething.
He simplifies very complexbusiness language and he teaches
it and a well balanced sort ofeasy to digest way, and that's
(31:36):
what patrick, my home, does.
He's just balanced, and sothat's what comes to mind first,
at least.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
All right, I love it.
You're a.
You're one for one on thisawesome start.
My next one I gotta go with my,my stealers, my stealers love,
so I'm gonna give you, can youpick it a?
There was high hopes for Kennycoming into the year.
I struggled a little bit out ofthe gate.
Definitely some concerns andfits very around the offensive
coordinator and the coaching.
(32:02):
Who comes to mind?
What book comes to mind whenyou hear Kenny pick it?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
yeah, well, when I hear Kenny pick it I hear high
hopes, kind of in a period offlux right now.
So there are a number of booksthat I've had really high hopes
for that just really haven'tlived up to my expectations.
So I'll go with.
Start with why by simon cynicbook that was very popular, lot
(32:30):
of high hopes.
When I open that thing up andfor me, just didn't do, it
didn't live up to theexpectations, now that doesn't
mean that it can't rebound,right, I could read the book
again and it could change mylife, you never know.
So I think there's always animportant opportunity to give a
chance.
But yeah, that's a.
That's what my mind goes to I'mhoping Kenny has a rebound.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Alright, and my last one you mentioned Mike McDaniel
previously, so I'm gonna takeyou to to a what do you got for
to us?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Listen, I was at the.
I was at the Miami new englandgame a few weeks ago where we
got our butts kicked.
Yeah, it was fun to watch, tolight it up.
Didn't light it up that much inthat game, but he lights it up
every single week.
So when I think of to right now,I think of to a and tyreek
almost as like a duo.
Yeah, because I think a lot ofto a success right now is based
(33:25):
on His wide receiving corp.
Got waddle, I mean he's got acouple of amazing half backs.
He even has the best full backin the league, alec engolt.
Shout out, alec is an author.
So when I think of to, I thinkof somebody who almost like a
home run hitter.
You know what's a good exampleof a home run hitter that just
(33:45):
knocks it out of the park.
Every time you read it Is thiskind of what's happening right
now with that.
My offense putting up points afew weeks ago I'll go with can't
hurt me by David Goggins.
I mean there's not a person onthe planet that I recommend that
book to where just doesn'tknock, knock it out of the park
for them.
And that's sort of what'shappening with to a he's just
(34:05):
willing to like throw that longball and he's got the fastest,
got the fastest five players inthe league to back him up.
So that's what I think aboutalright.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Hey, nick, that was awesome.
I have not done book comps everbefore.
No one that could do it better,so Thanks for playing along.
Now that we've talked at thesports angle, I'm guessing
people are super interested inthis.
I'm really interested and Ican't stop thinking about the
fifteen minutes and I'm probablywasting in the morning and at
night that I could be doingsomething productive with.
(34:35):
Tell us more about what you'redoing when the books coming out,
how people can learn more aboutyou and learn more from you.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
What, just over the years of building my community,
it's called book thinkers oninstagram.
We have about a hundred andfifty thousand book lovers in
that community and put up bookrecommendations every day.
I've just received the samequestions, the same problems,
hundreds and hundreds of times,like how do I choose the right
book, how do I take effectivenotes, how do I implement these
(35:04):
books to change my life?
And so, yes, I've decided towrite the book on solving that
problem here.
Now it's on both sides rise ofthe reader yeah and this book
can help you get more from theother books that you're reading.
I mean, that's the primaryvalue here.
I hope that the fifteen minuteexample that we talked about
before resonates with everybodya little bit, because it's not
(35:24):
about working a thousand hours aweek.
It's about doing the rightactivity that creates leverage
so that you can enjoy thepassage of time and that you
don't end up regretting nothaving done more.
These books are the mostbeautiful shortcut that I'm
aware of on the planet forliving an enjoyable lifestyle,
and this book, rise of thereader, can help you get more
(35:45):
out of it.
So, as far as launch day,november, first available for
preorder now and then availableeverywhere on november.
First you can find it on amazon.
You can check out our instagramand find links in the bio book
thinkers on instagram.
And yeah, I wanna make readingcool again.
I did switch from jock to nerd,but I think that there's some
(36:06):
cool parts about being a nerdthat people don't talk about.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I love it.
I a we talk about the worldneeds more leaders on on this
show and how, if we had moreleaders in the world, the world
would be a better place andeveryone can do their part to
get a little better and become abetter leader all the time.
And I think you've given us ahack, you've given us a cheat
code, a shortcut.
How can we take advantage ofsmall steps of reading and
(36:30):
incorporate and learn from, asyou mentioned some of the math
earlier, the thousands andthousands of years and days and
hours of people the condensedown to you know short passages
that we can learn from?
So we always do an episodechallenge before our listeners
Turn this off and start the nextepisode over the next couple
(36:51):
weeks, what is something thatthey can do to put into practice
?
So you gave the early exampleof the fifteen and fifteen.
Can you give us another one inaddition to that everyone can do
to take a step in the rightdirection?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yes, absolutely.
How about this, If anybodywants a custom book
recommendation from me?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
so.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
DM me on Instagram, tell me about a problem that
you're facing, tell me about askill that you want to improve
or something in between, andI'll make a custom book
recommendation.
So I think the challenge couldbe let's get started, let's go
from non-readers to readers.
Let's go out there and buy abook.
We'll set a good intention,We'll schedule our reading time,
read the book.
(37:33):
I have a whole spreadsheettracking system where I love to
follow up with people and see ifthey've read the books that
I've recommended and if theywere able to take educated
action, efficient action and ifany life change happens, so
that's available to anybody thatwants it.
I am available, I answer everymessage, and nothing brings me
more joy than hearing about howthese books change lives.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Sounds like there are zero excuses.
Mike Tomlin would like that.
All you got to do is give Nicka reach out to Nick on Instagram
, ask him for a bookrecommendation.
So do a little thought of whatproblem are you trying to solve?
I think all of us are trying tosolve some problem.
Ask Nick what's the right bookand then start reading it.
Trade out 15 minutes of screentime and trade in 15 minutes of
(38:16):
reading a book.
Look, I can't thank you enoughfor coming on the show sharing
all your wisdom, telling usabout book thinkers and rise of
the reader.
As I mentioned, I am someonewho struggled to read and
maximize reading and probably am, in my own head, making excuses
, and you've taken those excusesright out.
So I think all of us, myselfincluded, let's take that step
(38:38):
from going from non-readers toreaders.
Let's become better leaders,and Nick will link all your info
and the show notes and noexcuses.
Let's take that next step.
Thanks again for coming on,nick.
Anything you want to share toclose this out?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah, I'll just share .
This was a really cool showformat.
It was very different than anyother podcast that I've been on.
Obviously, I'm talking aboutbooks most of the time, not
sports, but this was a greatintersection between books,
sports and leadership and it waschallenging to do the book
comps, but it was a really funexercise and I sort of had to
dig deep and create metaphorsand so I had a good time.
(39:18):
I hope everybody else had agood time listening and thank
you for the challenge.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Thank, you for the opportunity.
I'm grateful for you.
Thanks a lot for all thatyou're doing and, like I said,
check out Nick's stuff.
I think you'll get a lot out ofit.
Take care everyone.
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