February 27, 2025 • 57 mins
Are you struggling to connect with your ideal clients and amplify your brand message? Join us as we sit down with Fabi Paolini, a seasoned brand strategist, who uncovers the nuances of effective messaging. In this engaging episode, Fabi shares her journey from Venezuela to becoming a successful branding expert in the U.S. She reveals her unique concept of the "angle of mastery," which emphasizes the importance of crafting a message that genuinely resonates with your audience, rather than amplifying a broken one.
Throughout our discussion, we explore the stark contrast between traditional marketing practices and the need for a more empowering approach that attracts so-called "power buyers"—clients ready to invest in meaningful solutions. Fabi shares actionable strategies to frame your offerings as a "need to have" rather than merely a "nice to have" for your audience. She also emphasizes the significance of building genuine connections, ensuring that each interaction offers value and fosters engagement.
Throughout this episode, you’ll gain insights on navigating the complexities of branding and messaging while learning how to address your own struggles as an entrepreneur. By the end, you’ll be equipped with powerful tools to refine your messaging strategy, making a lasting impact on potential clients. So, if you're ready to master your brand voice and resonate with your audience, tune in and join the conversation. Don’t forget to subscribe, share this episode, and leave us a review!
Connect with Fabi at:
My 20-minute training is at https://www.fabipaolini.com/positioning/
My free 15-min Message Assessment: BRAND ASSESSMENT - Fabi Paolini
Make yourself a priority and get more done: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing
Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Most people think that it's marketing, so they're
like let me get more leads orlet me get more visibility or
let me start running ads.
But that's not the problem.
The problem is that yourmessage is going to speak to the
wrong people, no matter whatstrategy you use.
You're just amplifying a brokenmessage.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The work never stops people.
That's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I was in absolute overwhelm in that moment At the
start, like my kid in the swing,and then angle of mastery, like
that phrase came in and I waslike oh my God, that is it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
What is going on?
Lnm family, if you can't tell.
I got a new background.
No, I didn't buy a new house.
I'm at an Airbnb and, adding tothe excitement of being here
today, I'm going to spend sometime.
We're going to spend some time.
Miss Fabi Paolini I connectedwith her on LinkedIn and she's
(00:58):
got a spectacular message or notjust a message a service that
she provides in helping peopleamplify their brand.
So she's a brand strategist.
She helps experts meaning realexperts, not flapping talking
heads like me.
She helps them attract powerbuyers with the angle of mastery
(01:22):
, which I think is super, superinteresting.
We're going to dig into that.
She's been doing it for nineyears.
She's helped hundreds ofclients enroll high quality
leads and clients, and if you'rein business at all, you know
that leads are important andclients are important, and the
fact that these are high qualityis phenomenal because that
(01:43):
translates into business success.
And so, and if this is yourfirst time, this is the
learnings and missteps podcast,where you get to see how real
people just like you are sharingtheir gifts and talents to
leave this world better thanthey found it.
This world better than theyfound it.
(02:09):
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and now you're going to get to
know Ms Fabi.
Ms Fabi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I'm so excited to be here and to talk to you, and you
have this amazing, amazingenergy and just this life in you
, so I'm definitely excited totalk and share some of my story
and just have an awesomeconversation, oh my God, I love
it because I've been able to seeseveral of your clips.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Like I said, linkedin is primarily the place I live.
I'm like there all the time andI just learned today that you
hit 70,000 views on your YouTubechannel.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yes, yeah, so I'm kind of getting started, sort of
started on my YouTube channelsince yes, yeah, so I'm kind of
getting started, not sort ofstarted on my YouTube channel
since the beginning of last year.
I have a podcast where I sharejust weekly content and videos
on there on messaging, marketing, all sorts of things, and so I
just got this email this morningor yesterday morning.
With, like a little, youreached 70,000 views and then
(03:03):
4,000 subscribers.
It's small, but also I feellike it's massive.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So oh my God, okay, so let's, let's stick there.
I mean, you said it's small andyou're probably like, in
comparison to other folks thathave like massive, massive views
and followings, but it ismassive.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It is yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
But it doesn't start off like that.
What was that like for youbeing a brand strategist and
being on the, on the interwebs,on all the socials, and the time
horizon between starting andactually hitting these big
milestones how did you managethat?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, the truth.
I'll tell you the truth, jesse,for me I don't care.
I know this is really weirdmaybe, but I don't care about.
I know this is really weirdmaybe, but I don't care about
how many followers I have or howmany likes I get or how many
views I get.
I genuinely don't.
I just focus on deliveringvalue, and that's it.
And if it's one person, I mean,obviously my business keeps on
(04:01):
bringing clients and we keep ongrowing, which is ultimately
what you want, but, but I justfocus on delivering value.
And for me and it's a lot ofwhat I do, and we'll talk about
about this even more later butit's like when you have a
message that matters to you andyou're sharing something that is
important, it's like why wouldme having a hundred views stop
(04:24):
me?
I just find that to be silly.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So, yeah, Applause because I think, rather for the
L&M family member out therethat's listening and maybe a
little the wind has been takenout of your sails because you
don't have a million downloadsand all the things.
I think what you said isabsolutely fundamental in terms
(04:46):
of having impact and stayinghealthy like mentally healthy is
do it to share a message, do itto serve, do it to contribute,
because if that's what you'redoing, mission accomplished.
If you're doing it for likesand followers, that's a little
different, because there's a lotof goofy things you could do to
(05:07):
get likes and followers.
Now, in terms of the value thatyou're focused on delivering
and providing and I'm abeneficiary because I pay
attention.
I pay attention to some of thepointers you put out there in
your clips and like, ooh, I needto.
I do that, I do the messaging.
That's like the sky is fallingdown.
Let me change that up a littlebit and I've made some tweaks
(05:30):
and I've noticed an increase ininteraction when I changed the
message, and so you have thisidea of this, this angle of
mastery.
What is that?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, so basically for me, this is a long story,
but I'll try to sum it up asmuch as I can.
So, basically for me, when Istarted my business, I started
creating content, like we allare supposed to do, right, and I
would bring in clients, but Istarted to feel like there was
(06:04):
something missing in my message.
Like I sounded like a lot ofdifferent people and there was a
lot of things, or there were alot of things that I was doing
in my own expertise that werecoming short.
When I was trying to explainwhat I did, I would say things
like I'm going to help you builda brand that attracts, for
example, for the first few yearsof my business, and it's like
anybody could say that.
(06:24):
Anybody could say I'm going tohelp you build a brand that
attracts, and what happens oftenis that so many people fall
into using phrases to describewhat they do that are like an
eye roll, sort of like okay,thank, you I've heard that a
million times.
I know that I see it and I'mpretty new to LinkedIn.
I literally started on LinkedInin just in October of last year
(06:50):
.
I spent years using Facebook,and that's what I did, and I'll
tell you that story later on.
But my point is that when I goin through LinkedIn, I feel like
90% of the content sounds thesame, and so, for me, this idea
of the angle of mastery is aboutbringing together in one
concept or one phrase who youare, what you stand for and what
(07:14):
you're truly selling.
Like what is it that you'reselling?
You're not selling a program.
You're not selling a podcast.
You're not selling a service.
You're not selling a session orconsultant or whatever.
You're selling an idea, and so,for me, your angle of mastery
is that idea that sums it all upbut also feels different to the
(07:35):
millions of things Like I canguarantee that nobody out there
is talking about angle ofmastery, because I created it,
it's like my concept and so,therefore, I become known for
that and I get to stand outbecause of that, and it also
encompasses all these differentpieces of who I am.
So that's what it's aboutbasically.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh, my goodness.
Okay, that's pretty.
Here's what I love about itit's pretty damn clear, right?
And I hear that like all thetime get clear, get clear, get
clear, it's like.
But it's not that easy.
It takes some work.
So, in that line of thinking,in terms of gaining the clarity,
were you clear when you were insixth grade that you were going
(08:18):
to have this trademarked ideaand provide the services that
you're providing today idea andprovide the services that you're
providing today?
Before we get into that, I wantto give the L&M family member
shout out.
This one goes to Ms TriciaReich.
Ms Tricia sent me this messageand she says I really loved
spending my Saturday with Jesseand everyone else.
(08:40):
I learned about managing myself.
If you have the opportunity toparticipate in one of Jesse's
seminars, it's worth the time.
So there you go.
Tricia said so.
We got to hang out in the dothe damn thing time management
workshop and there's going to beseveral of those coming up here
in the near future, so keep aneye out for them, of course not
(09:11):
keep an eye out for them?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Of course not.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
So how'd you get here ?
So what?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
happened from sixth grade until now?
No, of course not.
Of course not.
But it's the evolution of of mybrand, of figuring out how do I
serve my clients better.
And, honestly, that's where itcame up for me, Because one
thing that I really genuinelycare about is making sure that I
have a service and a processthat is really good.
(09:35):
That is actually something thatwill serve my clients and that
will really change theirbusinesses in a way.
And so, for me, in that processof figuring out well, how do I
give them a true differentiatingfactor, something that is
genuinely going to help them getbetter results, is when I came
up with the angle of mastery formyself and it was one of those
(09:57):
things that is like happen inthe most random way how that
phrase in particular came to me.
Now, obviously, since I createdthis I'll tell you in a second
second but since that phrasecame to me, I've developed
entire frameworks andmethodologies around it.
But so it was like an unlock,like it was literally I was
searching for the phrase and itwas like the most, like the
(10:19):
craziest circumstances.
My dad had a kidney transplant,my mom was the donor and while
both of them were recoveringfrom surgery, my I have three
kids, my kids.
I was alone with my kids.
My husband had to well fromVenezuela.
Originally, my husband had totravel for Venezuela to have his
passport renew.
(10:39):
I was in absolute overwhelm inthat moment, like start like my
kid in the swing just pushingher, and then angle of mastery,
like that phrase came in and Iwas like, oh my god, that is it.
And I literally startedrecording voice notes to myself
and this whole thing, and thenoff of that I've built an entire
(11:01):
framework process.
How do you how to help myclients create their own like
kind of angle of mastery phrasesand stuff like that?
So it was like this whole kindof crazy thing.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh my God, that's a beautiful story and I can only
imagine the pressure you wereunder and maybe the takeaway
there is, like you got to beopen, seeking and ready for
those moments, that clarity tohit, would you agree?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
A hundred percent, and I think that that's when
they come in, though that's whenthat clarity comes in.
I think that the more that we Imean you have to have a
framework and a process, likelearning to ride a bike you have
to learn.
Okay, I have to put my feethere, I have to move my feet, I
have to keep my balance, butsuddenly you're like, like if
(11:49):
you're not thinking about thewhole thing, but you have the
foundations there, and so whenyou let go is when that comes
through at the same time, likeyou have the foundation, but
then you're also allowingyourself to receive the ideas
and the and like thatinspiration.
I do have a very specificprocess for that, though, but I
do think that oftentimes, whenwe let go is when the best ideas
can come through.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, yes, and I'm with you.
I understand, like the process,the mechanics of doing things
and then the kind of magicalstuff that you got to that I got
to leave space for.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And, and so the idea, the phrase, the framework of
angle of mastery became clear.
Where you're at the park andyour family was in the hospital
or recovering from, like serioussurgery, your husband's out of
the country, like that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But what I want I want to make sure the folks
don't miss is it's not like youwere just walking in the park
and this great idea happenedupon you.
There was what years of workand grinding and working it all
out before that awakening?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Okay, yes, and so for folks that are like in that
space I feel like everybody Iknow is in that space right now,
including me like in the clunky, bumpy, wonky space of like.
I know I can deliver value, butI don't know how to say it
clearly yet and knowing thatyou're like a phenomenal brand
(13:20):
strategist and your messaging isabsolutely clear, what was it
like back then?
What were the stepping stonesthat you built upon before you
had that moment of clarity?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, okay, so this is a kind of a crazy story.
Maybe not, but I love it, so II like I was sharing before.
I'm originally from Venezuelaand and in 2015, we came to the
US.
To be completely honest, Iwanted my daughter to be an
American, so I came.
I always clarify that we camelegally, though we had.
(13:55):
I don't know why I feel like theneed to be like.
I had a work visa.
I did not come illegally, it'sfine, but just in case everybody
ever hears this, that is likelet me research anyways.
And I was coming to give birthand my plan was to leave.
That was it.
But so this was September 2015.
(14:18):
But about like a few monthsafter my daughter was born, my
husband and I were like I have,a situation in Venezuela is
getting worse and it's gettingtrickier, and then we just made
a decision to stay.
Mind you, it's been almost 10years.
I have not gone back toVenezuela since then.
I had an apartment with a babynursery, all my clothes,
everything that was kind ofthere until last year when we
(14:39):
finally rented the apartment,but it was like frozen in time
and so we made the decision tostay.
At the time, my husband he is asinger, but at the time he was
working as a singer and he wouldtravel to Venezuela to do shows
and concerts there andbasically that's kind of how we
were making our income.
But I had a background in inbranding.
I've been doing this from since2007 and I had an MBA and I had
(15:03):
all this kind of knowledge.
But my business in Venezuela wasall word of mouth and it was in
the local currency.
It wasn't in US dollars, so itwasn't something that was like
easily translated to dollars.
So, anyways, I was like I needto start building my business.
As the country, venezuelastarts to shut down more and
more, our income from myhusband's show starts to cut off
(15:24):
.
Because if you're not alignedwith basically I don't want to
get into politics but thedictatorship you don't get to
perform.
So essentially, my husbandended up, you know, not going
back, and so we were like, okay,we need to figure out a way to
build a business here.
So I started investing incoaching programs and marketing
to figure out what to do.
(15:45):
At that time I was doing mostlylike web design and yet some
messaging.
I always knew that messagingwas important and the core of
things.
But what I was being taughtback then, which is still being
taught today, which is crazy tome is a lot of that pain.
Marketing let's agitatepeople's pain, let's talk about
how bad the problem is, we'llget into is a lot of that pain.
(16:05):
Marketing let's agitatepeople's pain, let's talk about
how bad the problem is.
We'll get into this a lot,cause I can really go into this
topic and like how, what type ofpressure can you use to get
people to buy almost?
And like how do I do sales andall of these things?
And I started implementing andit started working.
But I would also attract a lotof people who were broke, who
could not work with me, whocouldn't afford it, and I was
(16:27):
not going to be the type ofsalesperson that can enroll that
type of person, because that'snot who I am.
It just never felt right.
I just couldn't.
It was like okay, I know thatthere's people that could enroll
you, but if you have to sellyour car to work with me, please
don't sell your car.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Like please don't sell your car Like please.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
You got other things Priorities.
Yes, of course, you needbranding and messaging, but you
need to eat, so please eat.
Anyways, I started growing mybusiness and, little by little,
it started moving more and moreinto messaging.
And so one day in, I think,like in 2021, I was like I feel
that this type of message doesnot resonate with me.
(17:05):
This type of pain marketingstrategy everybody's talking
about it.
It's like the bro marketing wayof doing things.
It doesn't resonate with me asa buyer.
I don't buy when you're talkingto me in this condescending
poor you way.
I'm here to save you, right.
So I don't buy into that.
To save you Right.
(17:28):
I don't buy into that.
Why would I, my audience, buyinto that?
So it was like a very bolddecision on my end, but I was
like I'm going to do thingscompletely different.
I had zero evidence of it, butI was just convinced that there
was a way of doing right.
And, mind you, now I call thatstrategy being the Ursula, which
is you're speaking to the poorunfortunate souls, that's it,
(17:49):
you got it.
There's a new little mermaidmovie, so now everybody can get
that reference, but but that'swhat I call it.
It's like when you're becomingthe Ursula, when you're talking
to the poor unfortunate soulsand your whole messaging.
And so I was like I'm not doingthat anymore.
I'm going to speak to thepeople who who are like me, I
have a problem.
And so I was like I'm not doingthat anymore.
I'm going to speak to thepeople who who are like me, I
have a problem.
And I'm like, okay, who do Ihire?
What do I do?
(18:10):
How do I fix it?
I'm not like, oh, miserable,falling apart, full of anxiety,
can't sleep, my life is fallingapart.
I'm a smart person, I don't, Idon't, I don't need that message
.
So I shifted that was kind ofthe first piece of my messaging
transformation to really speakagainst that a lot, and which
meant also that a lot of thecoaches that I and I never said
(18:33):
anything by name, but a lot ofthose coaches were like blocking
me off everywhere and like allthe things really pissed at me
and I'm like, yeah, go ahead,you're going to say something.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I've been wondering because you made a dramatic
shift from the norm, fromconventional thinking, from the
wisdom of those amazing coachesout there, and obviously I mean
you just started talking aboutit, right, there was friction.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And you also said that you didn't have any
evidence that this was going towork.
And you did.
Said that you didn't have anyevidence that this was going to
work and you did it anyway.
So, if you could like expand,what did that feel like?
How did you reconcile?
Okay, all these fools,everything out there is telling
me this is the way, but righthere within me, this is telling
me there's a better way.
(19:20):
How did you reconcile and stayresolute in doing what you saw
needed to be done?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It just had to be done, period For me.
I am really good at trusting mygut and at following intuition.
God, however you want to viewit, however you see it, for me
it was really clear and it'sfunny because, coming back to
the linkedin, like how I?
What happened with linkedin?
yeah, it was a similar thing.
I had been building my businesson facebook since 2015.
That was it.
I had it clear and dominated,and so last year I had this
(20:00):
moment where I felt like I'mdone with Facebook.
It was working for me.
I still run ad through Facebookand they work really well, but
my organic stuff I can't evenexplain to you.
It was almost like a physicalsensation of leave.
And same thing with this, likeUrsula language.
It was like stop.
(20:21):
From one day to another, I waslike buy Facebook, my gut just
told me go to LinkedIn, andthat's how stop.
From one day to another, I waslike by Facebook, my gut just
told me go to LinkedIn, andthat's how I just moved over to
LinkedIn after not doinganything on LinkedIn, basically
ever.
But that's the same thing thathappened with the messaging.
It was like I don't have anyevidence of this necessarily,
but it's.
It was common sense to me interms of messaging.
(20:42):
If my message says you'repowerless and you're full of
anxiety and you feel likenothing is going to work, how is
it a surprise when I get on asales call and somebody tells me
I don't think that this isgoing to work, because nothing
has ever worked and I'm tooafraid to invest, Like I
literally called you into myprogram.
That was exactly why am Isurprised when that's what I'm
(21:04):
getting back?
So we have to be so carefulwith our content and our message
and really discern and be likewait, does this make sense?
And so it was just common sensefor me.
It was like I don't haveevidence of this, but this is
logical.
You don't see, I don't know,like Mercedes Benz, I don't know
Bentley have commercials thatare like your car is falling
(21:26):
apart.
Come find my car for you.
You're so sad Transmissions.
I don't know anything aboutcars.
They don't do that, so why isit that I have to do that?
It doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right, right, okay.
So I'm going to go a littledeeper on this intuition and gut
thing, because I'm told, likeyou and I sister, you don't even
know, like everybody knows,like man, you're crazy, like
yeah, I know, but it's becauseI'm compelled.
There's something I call it thewhispers, but there's something
that just makes it super damnclear that this is what I need
(21:59):
to do.
No evidence, no nothing.
And so most people think, likeI said, I'm nuts.
No evidence, no nothing.
And so most people think, likeI said, I'm nuts.
But in terms of your situation,you, clearly you have embraced
your intuition and your gut.
How did you, or where does thatcome from?
Where does your confidence indoing that?
(22:19):
Or are you all maybe adifferent way to think about it
is were you always so confidentabout what you felt and thought
or sensed in the world, or didthat develop over time?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I feel like it definitely developed over time.
I have been always reallyconfident in who I am as a
person in general, like in mythoughts as a child, always like
, not the type of be, like letme follow this trend, or or I
want to be part of this group,or whatever it was like.
I'm just am who I am.
But I think that there's been alot, of, a lot of personal
(22:52):
development work.
That I've done is a lot ofcoaching and a lot of just
exploration let's call it likereally looking for connection,
and what I have learned is thatI can't un-listen to it number
one.
But the more that I listen tothose how you call them whispers
, it's like I'm just being ledand if I ignore it, things
(23:14):
become harder.
And I'll give you one example.
This happened to me last week.
This never happens to me, mindyou.
I was on a call with somebodyand she was like a potential
client and not quite in theplace where she could invest,
and my gut, jesse, was like youneed to give this person your
(23:34):
program.
Like never happens, maybe oncea year.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Once every two years, and I was like you know what?
I need to enroll you into theprogram.
I can't even explain it, Icould feel it in my throat.
It was like you need to do thisand so I have to trust that I
can't move away from it.
I can't even explain it, butit's something that I've
definitely developed and I'mvery in tune with and I follow
(24:00):
it, Always in tune with and Ifollow it always.
I always follow it, Even if itdoesn't make sense in the moment
.
I think that for me, justhaving so much connection with
God spirituality that is justmakes it stronger and I pray for
it too.
It's like, just and tell mewhat to do and I will do it.
Like, whatever you tell me todo, I will freaking do it, I
(24:22):
will follow your lead.
So I try to just build on thatlike, build on that evidence of
that of like.
Whenever I do this, look atthen what happens and how much
abundance shows up.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yes, yeah, oh, amazing, and, and so thank you,
cause now I'm not the only one.
What I think you said that isis key, that I want people to
hear like listeners out there.
All of us have been in a spacewhere we put in a ton of time
and a ton of effort and a ton ofenergy and we're fighting,
(24:53):
running uphill all the time, andit doesn't have to be that way.
Like you said, all I have to dois allow myself to be led and
it just happens.
It's frictionless.
It may not make sense in themoment, but on the long term,
it's amazing.
Like it's clear, it's easy, butwe have to create the
(25:15):
conditions for us to receive.
Part of that is like taking careof yourself and maintaining
your connections with yourpeople, your spirituality, all
of the things, and so I guessthe main point is folks out
there, if you're experiencing alot of friction, maybe you're
not listening to the whispersenough, or that guiding light,
(25:38):
or whatever you need to call it.
I call it the whispers.
It just makes more sense for me.
Okay, so you listened to you,you followed your intuition and
your gut.
You made the change.
No more Ursula, pluto, ariel.
That's all we're going to betalking about now.
What was the impact in terms ofyour clientele and operating
(25:59):
your business?
What was that shift for you?
It was really powerful.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
It was powerful in many different ways.
So the first thing is that Iwould get messages from people
telling me like, for example, Iwrote a post about how my
audience was filled with actiontakers, how my ideal clients
were action takers who are notafraid to do the work, and
immediately I got a DM fromsomebody like that is me a
(26:24):
hundred percent, you're speakingto me, that is exactly how I am
.
And she literally enrolled thatsame week.
So I had people who wereshowing up from just different
level of people, people thatwere much more ready.
I felt like I was attractingmore experts.
It wasn't so much about howmuch knowledge they had, but it
(26:45):
was about the drive within themand, like I'm ready, it was a
mindset thing.
So that started happening a lotLike the level of people that
we were attracting, the amountof people that would come in and
pay in full versus doingpayment plans and like little
things like that.
But then that also meant for meand this was the pain in the
(27:05):
butt part, though that it waslike okay, if I'm attracting a
different caliber of person whohas these different expectations
less handholding, much moreresourceful, much more action
takers I need to make sure thatmy program is really tailored
for those people, which meantthat then I had to rerecord
(27:27):
everything, oh everything.
I had all these videos, I hadall these things and I had all
these processes.
I had to redo everythingbecause now it's like, okay, if
I'm talking to an action taker,I can't give them 20 videos.
Sure, they're going to watchthem, but I need to make sure
that it's much more actionable.
And if I'm talking to peoplethat are much smarter, I can't
(27:49):
come in here and talk about like, let's do an ideal client
avatar exercise.
I'm assuming that you alreadyknow how to do that, that you've
already done that before,because this is what I do is not
beginner messaging stuff, it'smuch more.
I have a mind that says like Ifeel like I just got a master's
degree in messaging.
It was like super advanced.
So all of the stuff that feltto beginner, I just moved it
(28:13):
into like a course, like aself-study course that I have
for people I want to finduncover the foundations of
messaging right.
I really needed to make surethat all of it sounded like I've
never heard of anybody talkabout this before.
So even my concept of who myaudience is changed from.
Okay, I'm speaking to, I'm notdoing the Ursula.
(28:33):
I used to say I'm speaking tothe ready to invest clients, and
now I'm talking to power buyer.
That's who my audience is, andso everything is structured
around.
How do we speak to power buyers?
And so I had to look ateverything and look at my
funnels and my content and makesure that all of it was like
matching, from the words in myad copy to the landing page, to
(28:56):
the webinar, to the email, tothe text message, to everything
needed to be really aligned.
It's a lot of work.
It was a lot of work.
Yeah, I mean it took, and itstill happens to this day.
It continues to evolve, but itwas really worth it, cause now
it's like the, the people.
Obviously we still attractpeople who won't buy, right?
I mean, I'm not, I don't have ahundred percent conversion rate
(29:18):
?
That would be insane.
It would be nice, it would beinsane.
But the great majority ofpeople who I attract are like
I'm ready, and when they enroll,they get results, they take
action.
Their business is like oh, I'vecreated this concept, this
thing, that is my thing, andpeople pay attention and so it's
like it changes theirbusinesses too.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Oh, my goodness, oh, I love.
Thank you for like sharing thatinsight.
What I want to make sure peopledon't miss is you got clarity
and shifted and it's helped youwith your clientele.
You're helping them do amazingthings, but there was work all
the way through from when youfirst started.
There's still work.
(30:00):
The work never stops people.
That's what I'm trying to tellyou.
The work never stops becauseclearly, you've invested in
yourself.
You sought out, you got coaches, you got I'm sure you probably
signed up for different seminarsand different things.
Some was really valuable, Somewas not.
What kind of advice or pointersexcept for, of course, sign up
(30:21):
with Fabi.
What pointers would you givefolks in terms of like they're
in the market and they'relooking to maybe introductory,
what should they watch out for?
I'll give some little morecontext.
I've signed up for a couple inthe past, for a couple calls,
coaching calls or whatever andit was horrible, Like yes, it
(30:41):
was another human being, butthey read their script and that
was the end of the call.
And I'm like bro, it wasanother human being, but they
read their script and that wasthe end of the call.
And I'm like bro, you couldhave sent me an email with the
video link for that, Like thatwas just not okay, Using that as
the low mark, the low watermark.
What are some things that folksneed to kind of be thinking
(31:01):
about or watch out for whenthey're seeking to make those
early investments in themselves?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I feel like there's a few things that we can unpack.
Oftentimes we get sucked intothe picture that people paint
for us and we don't really thinkabout in terms of investing.
We'll talk about the coachingcall, but we'll also talk about
investing.
We'll talk about the coachingcall, but we'll also talk about
investing.
Okay, ooh, this person says thatI'm going to get 10 new clients
(31:28):
this month or this week.
Ooh, this is exciting, let mesign.
That's exactly what I want.
But you don't really stop tothink about does the business
model make sense for me?
Do I actually see myselffollowing that business model?
And so I have invested inthings because of that in the
past.
And then I'm like do I actuallywant to be DMing people all day
(31:49):
?
Does that system reallyresonate with me?
I don't think so, and it'sreally discerning into okay,
what am I actually buying into?
Do I really want this businessmodel for myself?
And then, in terms of, likethat sales process, I do think
that it's really important foryou to build connection.
So for me, for example, the waythat we structure our sales
(32:11):
processes before we do a salescall, I do a 15 minute call that
I like to call brand messageassessment.
I've also call it brand auditand so what I do in that call is
that I will look at people'smessaging and I will literally
rewrite it for them on the calland I'll tell you okay, here's
what I would do if I were you.
Here's how I would communicate.
And I walk them through likehere are the gaps, these are the
(32:33):
things that you're missing,what you're doing wrong.
And so at the end of that call,if that person's a good fit and
they're interested, that's whenI invite them on a sales call.
But and they're interested,that's when I invite them on a
sales call.
But it's a super preciseapproach.
Obviously, there's a lot ofstrategy behind what I'm doing,
but also, in part, for me is toavoid what you were talking
about before.
I value connection and what Irealized as well is that power
(32:55):
buyers value connection too.
So people that are like oh, Iwant to sign a C-suite person,
like a CEO of a company as aclient, or I want to sign an
executive leader, or I want tosign a whatever these are people
that are not stupid.
They're not going to fall fortransaction-based marketing
(33:18):
where it's like your number,like your cattle, right.
What I find is that the morethat you give them touch points
where they you get to buildrelationships with the person,
the more likely that they are tobuy.
So in my case, that's why I dothe 15 minute call in part.
There's again, there's lots ofother reasons why there's a lot
of strategy behind that.
I'm also doing it to showpeople, like, what the problem
(33:41):
is.
I'll explain that afterwards.
But then also from there, whenthey move into the sales call,
which isn't with me, they'veI've already built such a
powerful connection.
It's easier for them to buy.
Um, the other thing, so and sowe looking at like, when you're
going through that process ofI'm thinking and investing, does
this person actually care aboutme?
Is an important question toanswer, right?
(34:01):
Or just a number for them.
Am I going to be treated likeyeah, I don't know, like they
just want me to buy and they'repressuring me to buy and they're
giving me information.
They're not really telling memuch, they're just giving me
claims and promises Mega redflag.
The other thing for me is one ofthe important things that I
tell people through the workthat I do is that most people
(34:23):
have a messaging problem, not amarketing problem.
Most people think that it'smarketing.
So they're like let me get moreleads or let me get more
visibility, or let me startrunning ads, or let me do
LinkedIn or TikTok or YouTube orwhatever, hire appointment
setters or whatever.
But that's not the problem.
The problem is that yourmessage is going to speak to the
(34:43):
wrong people.
So if you're just focusing onmarketing, you're going to keep
on attracting the wrong people,no matter what strategy you use.
You're just amplifying a brokenmessage.
If you were in a place where youdon't have a solid message,
investing in marketing is a way.
(35:05):
It's not that it's a waste ofmoney, but you're going to leak
so much money.
It's going to be reallyexpensive for you to scale.
So I always recommend that youinvest in messaging, not first,
but like whether you'rebeginning in your business or
whether you're like have amillion dollar company, I don't
know whatever it is like.
Have a million dollar company,I don't know whatever it is it's
(35:25):
.
You really need to take a closelook at your message to make
sure that when you put gasolineinto it and invest in marketing,
it's spent on the right people,Like you're bringing the right
people in, and so yourconversion rates are higher too.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So oh yeah, oh my God .
The phrase you said is you'rejust amplifying a broken message
.
Yeah, that is powerful.
Because how many of us do that?
Some of the work I do iscoaching, continuous improvement
and deployment of change withinorganizations, and I'm just
telling you right now, I stealthat.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Go for it.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Because a lot of times when I'm talking with the
decision makers or theinfluencers within the
organization, I'm like, hey, Iknow we're going to do this, but
let's get clear, what's themessage, what's the story we're
going to tell?
We're like we want to getbetter.
I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Be careful, because if youstart that, you're going to be
sending a bad message.
The way you said it wasamplifying a broken message.
(36:19):
It's not because we suck, it'sbecause we want to dominate the
market.
Those are same, maybe,behaviors, but two totally
different messages, exactly.
So thank you for that.
Now you touched ontransactional and relational.
What you described to me, theone-on-one 15-minute
conversation, where you kind ofgive the assessment and say this
(36:42):
is broken, fix this, thinkabout that.
I bet you get people sayinglike, why do you give away so
much for free?
But you also pointed out likethe power buyers, they want
contact time, they wantactionable insight, and so in
this transactional, relationalbuckets, have you always been a
relational person?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah, but I've also developed it more.
In the beginning, a little bit,but then, as I went through the
process, more and more I waslike I need to build more touch
points with people.
And so, for me, I was taughtdon't give your content away
because people are going to runwith it.
And I came up with an analogylast year that I like and it's
you can go and watch TaylorSwift's videos for free on
(37:27):
YouTube, listen to her onSpotify for free, and yet look
at what that world tour did,which was insanity, right.
It's never going to be the sameconsuming free content than paid
content.
The 15 minute calls that I haveare extremely valuable, but
they're 15 minutes long.
Your problem is not going to besolved in 15 minutes.
(37:49):
Even if I give you which I givepeople copy for free, it's not
going to be solved.
And so the people that thinkthat it will, please take it and
use it.
I hope it helps you, right?
I hope it helps you because ifyou think that this is enough,
you know okay, then youdefinitely need it, right.
(38:10):
But the people that are smarter, they're like okay, help me do
that.
I want to learn how to do that.
How do I implement that?
What does that look like?
For me, it's like a big mindsetshift that has to change, versus
just changing your copy.
The work that I do isn't aboutjust updating your website.
It's about fundamentallychanging how you view your
(38:31):
audience and how you view yourvalue and what you're selling,
and so if you don't know how todo that, I can give you your
whole website copy if you wantwhole website copy, if you want.
You're still not going to makea difference, because when you
go to a podcast interview orwhen you are creating a video,
you have no clue what to do, andso for me it's like a great way
(38:52):
of delivering value.
And people feel like at the endof that call, like, wow, this is
.
I have a whole page of liketestimonials that people have
sent me about that call and theyfeel like, wow, this is amazing
.
But I again, like I know, youknow, it's not enough.
I mean, it's a great start butit's not going to fix the
problem for you.
So I'm all about like let'sjust give value.
(39:14):
I would rather give, becausehere's one thing that I want to
say, one thing that I realize isthat money, at the end of the
day, is an exchange of value,and so the more value that I
give, the more value that I get.
And so I would rather just givevalue for free, because I know,
coming back to that spiritualpart, I live in an abundance
(39:38):
world and I believe in that, andso why am I holding back from
sharing the best?
Now, obviously, there are waysof doing that strategically, so
that you don't end up attractingpeople that are like, great,
thank you Bye, which you don'twant to do.
And I can even tell you theexact number.
It's January 14th, so the monthis just getting started, and
this month I want to tell youthe exact number, so you know
(40:02):
I'll open it up this month, eventhough I'm giving away content
for free and that call I've had.
Where is it?
80% of the people book salescalls regardless.
So I'm giving you free content.
I'm telling you at the end ofthe call this is a sales call
that you're going to have.
They're going to walk youthrough my process.
(40:23):
They're going to walk youthrough the investment it is.
There is an investment involved.
Do you want to do a sales call?
80% of the people are like 100%, I want to do that call.
What's the next step?
How do I enroll?
I mean, give away value forfree 80% is phenomenal, that's
(40:43):
an outstanding result.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Congratulations.
And again, folks, if you didn'tcatch it, if you didn't hear,
it was a result of providing anddelivering value for free a
human with another human toserve somebody else.
And then the 80% happened.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, I love how you said that, because that's the
problem.
Problem is that we all want toautomate everything, whether
it's through bots or AI, orpeople in the Philippines that
are sending a thousand Ds perday, or whatever.
We all want to automateeverything, but power buyers are
not.
I mean, you can automate piecesof the process, of course, like
(41:34):
you can like.
For example, what happens isthat after somebody does the 15
minute call with me, they get aseries of text messages from me
and a series of emails from methat are nurturing them even
more, but they had the call withme already and so, and then
they have the call with my teamas well, and there's a lot of
pieces in there that are reallybuilt purposefully, but you
(41:54):
can't automate actual connectionand real relationships.
You can't.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I'm laughing because, you know, since chat, gppt and
all these other things havebecome more and more popular or
more used, I see people using itto fill this connection gap and
it's like no, no, no, flip it.
Yeah, use it to automate all ofthe stuff that keeps you from
connecting so that you canconnect more, right?
(42:26):
I?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
mean you can tell.
You can tell when posts arewritten by AI, comments are
written by AI.
It's like, okay, dude, you'rewasting your time, right, it's
not going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Right, right, oh, my God, it's so, so awesome.
Okay, so you transitioned theangle of mastery, had to
redesign your whole business.
You started attracting powerbuyers.
You're now serving people andhelping them attract power
buyers.
What are some?
Because everybody thinks theywant a power buyer.
(42:59):
Until they get a power buyer,what are some of the things that
people that want to have thatpower buyer as their client that
they need to have in order,otherwise it ain't going to
happen for long-term.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, there's one more piece of the equation.
I'll tell you what it is afterI answer your question.
So, basically, it's reallyrecognizing within your content
whether that is your program orhow your framework, your methods
, whatever it's looking at.
Well, does everything makesense for this audience or do I
(43:35):
have to change something?
Or is there something here thatit needs to shift within what
I'm doing to make sure that it'sserving them?
The process has to be reallyclean, meaning that message has
to be congruent everywhere,otherwise you can lose people in
the process.
But it's more about mindset.
It's also about, like, reallybelieving that you can serve
(43:55):
them.
One thing that I often tell myclients and it's a phrase that I
often use it's this idea thatyour capacity to make sales
comes down to your capacity toreceive clients.
What that means is thatoftentimes we're like I want
more clients and I want to makemore money.
I want, but you don't haveeither the systems in place or
you don't have.
Bringing in more clients wouldbe a real nightmare for you, and
(44:18):
so for me, for example, I valuemy time a lot, and so I have
three kids and I work from 11 tothree.
That's it Monday throughThursday.
On Fridays I schedule out emailsbut I don't have any meetings
or anything else.
There are days when I go alittle bit over three.
For the most part, I work from11 to three.
At three o'clock I go out, Ipick up my kids from school and
(44:41):
I spend the afternoon with themdoing homework and whatever, and
that's it Like.
That is that's something Ireally value.
If I'm in a place where I say,okay, I want to grow my business
, I want to bring in moreclients, I need to make sure
that my program or the containercan fit more people, without
meaning that now I'm workinguntil 10 PM or I worked earlier
(45:01):
because those times are likethat for a reason.
Like I go to the gym in themorning, it's something that I
value, I have like my morningroutine and something that I
value, and so that's why I startwork at 11.
And having the space builtwithin your business, the
support that you need if that'swhat matters, or whatever, to
make sure that you can receivemore is what matters most.
(45:22):
So that's kind of what I wouldsay.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, I love like this, the influx of work or
backlog revenue whateverlanguage you like to use that
you think you want.
As soon as you get it, it'sgoing to surface the problems in
your system and that's not abad thing.
But, like when you're workingwith power buyers, you need to
fix it fast.
So ready to fix it?
Speaker 1 (45:46):
but it's a good challenge too, because it's like
then you have to be like.
You know, I had a client that Iwork with at the end of last
year, for example, who was likea badass, like I was like yeah
oh my, how did I even attractthis person?
you spoke at the World EconomicForum or World Business Forum, I
think it's called in Spain andhad multiple PhDs, and she was
(46:11):
like I need your help.
And I'm like, okay, but thenwhat happens is that when I
serve clients that are like that, that are that have a lot of
knowledge, a lot ofunderstanding of a lot of
different things.
What that does for me is that itpushes me to be like okay, let
me look at my program.
(46:32):
How do I make sure that this isgoing to serve that person?
Or for her?
In her case, she was aone-on-one client, so I write
her messaging for her and allthese different things.
I need to make sure that thisblows her away, that she's like
wow, right.
So I just worked that muchharder, but in that process I
create new frameworks and ideasand stuff like that too, which
is awesome too.
So amazing.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
So there's the added benefit you attract the power
buyers and, as a result ofsupporting them and serving them
, you got to get better.
So their expectations and theirperformance drives you to get
better, and it's this likevirtuous cycle of improvement in
service.
Okay, what pieces of theequation have we missed?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Okay.
So the first part for me wasspeaking to the power buyers.
That's the first thing thatchanged, and so once I was like,
wait a minute, I can't do theUrsula anymore, I need to speak
to the power buyers, and Ichanged that.
The next piece was okay, nowthat I have a track that I'm
speaking more to these people,how do I really catch their
attention even more?
And that's when the angle ofmastery concept was developed.
(47:36):
But then the third part in thisthird part is the thing that I
came up with last year issomething that I like to call
the need to have formula, whichis turning what you do into a
need to have, because it's likeI can sell you into this concept
.
But how do I make sure that itfeels like a need to have versus
a nice to have, need to haveversus a nice to have?
(48:00):
And what I find is that mostpeople, the way that they
communicate what they do, soundslike a nice to have.
It would be nice for me toinvest in leadership in whatever
coaching, spiritual coachingrelationship.
A consultant would be nice.
Do I need to spend this money?
Wow, and so it's.
How do you turn what you dointo a need to have.
One of the things that I tellpeople is that for a certain
(48:23):
audience, a $50,000 Hermes bagis a need to have right.
Sure All communicationeverything becomes a need to
have if you know how tocommunicate it and articulate it
effectively.
So for me, that next part ofthat equation was okay, we know
we're speaking to power buyers,we have this angle of mastery
that we're selling, but how dowe make sure that what I do
(48:45):
really feels like I need that?
Not from a place of neediness,because that's Ursula's right,
but from a place of like no, no,no, I need to have that, that's
what I'm looking for.
And so that was the next partof that equation for me.
That was what I spent a lot oflast year developing that
framework around that, and Icall it the need to have formula
(49:05):
.
It's like the whole system forturning what you do into a real
need to have in terms of yourcommunication, but then also
looking at the program as welland making sure that what you're
selling is like kind of comingback to what we were seeing
before truly serving thataudience and removing the excess
so that it feels genuinely likeI need that.
So that was the last part.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I think that's just like the uppercut right, like
that's the knockout punch there.
How much do your clients, orpeople in general, struggle,
from a mindset perspective, inmessaging their services as a
need to have?
Do you find that to be like acommon sticking point with your
clients?
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Sometimes I think that what happens is that when
you go through the process, thatprocess overcomes that
objection, because when you'respeaking to the power buyer
versus the Ursula people, thenyou understand that your work is
a need to have for them, and so, therefore, it becomes really
easy to show them no, no, no.
(50:07):
It is obviously.
I think that it comes up morewhen people are newer, like two,
two, new.
You're going to feel like what?
But but still, even in thatcase, it there it's.
It's always a need to have whenyou're selling it to the right
people.
It's not a need to have for youto sell, kind of coming back to
what we were talking aboutbefore something to somebody
(50:27):
that is like I need to sell mycar to buy this Unless you're
selling them a new car Rightright, going to afford it.
(50:53):
Who have the mindset we're goingto take action?
Who are those people?
And so it doesn't.
There's not as much of an issue, mindset wise, unless you're
like two, two new is what Iwould say.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that makes sense and Icould see that the key point,
folks, if you didn't catch it isgoing through the process that
you teach to your system.
The service that you providehelps people get there.
So if you're like me in thatyou're really good at advocating
for the people you know andtelling everybody how amazing
they are and you stink athelping people know how amazing
(51:28):
you are, this system or thisprocess helps you overcome that.
Whatever we'll just call itfriction, whatever that friction
is, which is powerful becauseit's an uncomfortable thing.
A lot of us have hangovers fromthe way we were brought up, the
way we were raised and allthese funky things.
But if the process fixed that,double, double awesomeness, Okay
(51:51):
.
So I got one last question foryou.
But before I ask that question,if there's a power buyer up now
, how do they get ahold of you?
What's the best way for thepower buyers to get ahold of you
?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And for the you know, the curious, the interested
people do you have two ways thatthey can connect with you.
So two things that we can do.
The first one is the, the brandmessage assessment that I
mentioned, and so you go tobrand message sessioncom to be
able to book that.
It isn't a sales call, it's a15 minute super value-based call
.
I will take a look at yourmessaging myself.
So it's not even with somebodyelse, it's with me and cause
(52:28):
people sometimes are like wait,it's you, yeah, it's me, and I
will write the messaging for you.
So brandmessagesessioncom.
And then, if you want to godeeper into the concepts that we
talked about today power buyers, angle of mastery, the need to
have formula, what that processlooks like.
More, I have a training atreadytoinvestclientscom.
(52:50):
I need to upgrade, update thatto say powerbuyerscom, but right
now it's readytoinvestclicom,ready to investclanscom, and
that's where you're going tofind that training, where I go a
little bit deeper intoexplaining these concepts and
how they show up in yourbusiness.
And so that's another way to go.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Awesome, and you can follow you on LinkedIn and.
Youtube.
I found you on LinkedInBeautiful, great messages, love
the video, and I just discoveredthat you had a youtube channel,
so of course, I got.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
You're gonna have to look at the description and the
episode to learn how to typethat, but everywhere, basically
yes, and we'll make sure, folks,the links are going to be down
in the description and all thewonderfulness.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
You're ready for the last softball question.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Okay, let's see.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Now you clearly have an understanding of abundance
and you follow your intuitionand the whispers.
You're about service, You'reabout connection and you've been
super gracious with your timeand connecting with me on the
LinkedIn and then talking now.
So I'm like excited about whatyour answer is going to be.
(53:59):
What is the promise you areintended to be?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
That's a great question, very easy, quick
question to answer.
Well, I think that for me, whatimmediately comes up and what
has come up in the past not witha similar question, because I
haven't been asked that but it'sabout helping people create the
message that matters to them,and for me, that's what it's
been about.
(54:26):
It's about really discoveringwhat truly matters to me what,
what do I want to know, be knownfor?
But it's beyond that.
It's what matters right, and sothat's what I'm here to do and
that's what matters to me.
It's helping people create themessage that matters to them, so
that you're uplifting everybodyelse and you're uplifting
yourself in that process, whichI think, ultimately, is what we
(54:48):
all want to do.
It's like let's raise theconversation everywhere,
internally first, hello, butthen externally as well, through
the content that you'recreating, through the work that
you're putting out there,through the people that you're
serving, through everything thatyou do and who you help and how
you impact lives.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
And I think it's really.
It comes down to that messagethat matters part.
Oh my God, I knew it Likeserving others.
As one grows, we all grow.
Amazing, did you have fun?
Speaker 1 (55:19):
That was awesome.
That was super fun.
Did you have fun?
I gave it all.
Oh, my goodness, that wasawesome.
Jesse, thank you so much.
Most people think that it's marketing, so they're
like let me get more leads orlet me get more visibility or
let me start running ads.
But that's not the problem.
The problem is that yourmessage is going to speak to the
wrong people, no matter whatstrategy you use.
You're just amplifying a brokenmessage.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The work never stops people.
That's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I was in absolute overwhelm in that moment At the
start, like my kid in the swing,and then angle of mastery, like
that phrase came in and I waslike oh my God, that is it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
What is going on?
Lnm family, if you can't tell.
I got a new background.
No, I didn't buy a new house.
I'm at an Airbnb and, adding tothe excitement of being here
today, I'm going to spend sometime.
We're going to spend some time.
Miss Fabi Paolini I connectedwith her on LinkedIn and she's
(00:58):
got a spectacular message or notjust a message a service that
she provides in helping peopleamplify their brand.
So she's a brand strategist.
She helps experts meaning realexperts, not flapping talking
heads like me.
She helps them attract powerbuyers with the angle of mastery
(01:22):
, which I think is super, superinteresting.
We're going to dig into that.
She's been doing it for nineyears.
She's helped hundreds ofclients enroll high quality
leads and clients, and if you'rein business at all, you know
that leads are important andclients are important, and the
fact that these are high qualityis phenomenal because that
(01:43):
translates into business success.
And so, and if this is yourfirst time, this is the
learnings and missteps podcast,where you get to see how real
people just like you are sharingtheir gifts and talents to
leave this world better thanthey found it.
This world better than theyfound it.
(02:09):
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and now you're going to get to
know Ms Fabi.
Ms Fabi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I'm so excited to be here and to talk to you, and you
have this amazing, amazingenergy and just this life in you
, so I'm definitely excited totalk and share some of my story
and just have an awesomeconversation, oh my God, I love
it because I've been able to seeseveral of your clips.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Like I said, linkedin is primarily the place I live.
I'm like there all the time andI just learned today that you
hit 70,000 views on your YouTubechannel.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yes, yeah, so I'm kind of getting started, sort of
started on my YouTube channelsince yes, yeah, so I'm kind of
getting started, not sort ofstarted on my YouTube channel
since the beginning of last year.
I have a podcast where I sharejust weekly content and videos
on there on messaging, marketing, all sorts of things, and so I
just got this email this morningor yesterday morning.
With, like a little, youreached 70,000 views and then
(03:03):
4,000 subscribers.
It's small, but also I feellike it's massive.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So oh my God, okay, so let's, let's stick there.
I mean, you said it's small andyou're probably like, in
comparison to other folks thathave like massive, massive views
and followings, but it ismassive.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It is yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
But it doesn't start off like that.
What was that like for youbeing a brand strategist and
being on the, on the interwebs,on all the socials, and the time
horizon between starting andactually hitting these big
milestones how did you managethat?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, the truth.
I'll tell you the truth, jesse,for me I don't care.
I know this is really weirdmaybe, but I don't care about.
I know this is really weirdmaybe, but I don't care about
how many followers I have or howmany likes I get or how many
views I get.
I genuinely don't.
I just focus on deliveringvalue, and that's it.
And if it's one person, I mean,obviously my business keeps on
(04:01):
bringing clients and we keep ongrowing, which is ultimately
what you want, but, but I justfocus on delivering value.
And for me and it's a lot ofwhat I do, and we'll talk about
about this even more later butit's like when you have a
message that matters to you andyou're sharing something that is
important, it's like why wouldme having a hundred views stop
(04:24):
me?
I just find that to be silly.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So, yeah, Applause because I think, rather for the
L&M family member out therethat's listening and maybe a
little the wind has been takenout of your sails because you
don't have a million downloadsand all the things.
I think what you said isabsolutely fundamental in terms
(04:46):
of having impact and stayinghealthy like mentally healthy is
do it to share a message, do itto serve, do it to contribute,
because if that's what you'redoing, mission accomplished.
If you're doing it for likesand followers, that's a little
different, because there's a lotof goofy things you could do to
(05:07):
get likes and followers.
Now, in terms of the value thatyou're focused on delivering
and providing and I'm abeneficiary because I pay
attention.
I pay attention to some of thepointers you put out there in
your clips and like, ooh, I needto.
I do that, I do the messaging.
That's like the sky is fallingdown.
Let me change that up a littlebit and I've made some tweaks
(05:30):
and I've noticed an increase ininteraction when I changed the
message, and so you have thisidea of this, this angle of
mastery.
What is that?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, so basically for me, this is a long story,
but I'll try to sum it up asmuch as I can.
So, basically for me, when Istarted my business, I started
creating content, like we allare supposed to do, right, and I
would bring in clients, but Istarted to feel like there was
(06:04):
something missing in my message.
Like I sounded like a lot ofdifferent people and there was a
lot of things, or there were alot of things that I was doing
in my own expertise that werecoming short.
When I was trying to explainwhat I did, I would say things
like I'm going to help you builda brand that attracts, for
example, for the first few yearsof my business, and it's like
anybody could say that.
(06:24):
Anybody could say I'm going tohelp you build a brand that
attracts, and what happens oftenis that so many people fall
into using phrases to describewhat they do that are like an
eye roll, sort of like okay,thank, you I've heard that a
million times.
I know that I see it and I'mpretty new to LinkedIn.
I literally started on LinkedInin just in October of last year
(06:50):
.
I spent years using Facebook,and that's what I did, and I'll
tell you that story later on.
But my point is that when I goin through LinkedIn, I feel like
90% of the content sounds thesame, and so, for me, this idea
of the angle of mastery is aboutbringing together in one
concept or one phrase who youare, what you stand for and what
(07:14):
you're truly selling.
Like what is it that you'reselling?
You're not selling a program.
You're not selling a podcast.
You're not selling a service.
You're not selling a session orconsultant or whatever.
You're selling an idea, and so,for me, your angle of mastery
is that idea that sums it all upbut also feels different to the
(07:35):
millions of things Like I canguarantee that nobody out there
is talking about angle ofmastery, because I created it,
it's like my concept and so,therefore, I become known for
that and I get to stand outbecause of that, and it also
encompasses all these differentpieces of who I am.
So that's what it's aboutbasically.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh, my goodness.
Okay, that's pretty.
Here's what I love about itit's pretty damn clear, right?
And I hear that like all thetime get clear, get clear, get
clear, it's like.
But it's not that easy.
It takes some work.
So, in that line of thinking,in terms of gaining the clarity,
were you clear when you were insixth grade that you were going
(08:18):
to have this trademarked ideaand provide the services that
you're providing today idea andprovide the services that you're
providing today?
Before we get into that, I wantto give the L&M family member
shout out.
This one goes to Ms TriciaReich.
Ms Tricia sent me this messageand she says I really loved
spending my Saturday with Jesseand everyone else.
(08:40):
I learned about managing myself.
If you have the opportunity toparticipate in one of Jesse's
seminars, it's worth the time.
So there you go.
Tricia said so.
We got to hang out in the dothe damn thing time management
workshop and there's going to beseveral of those coming up here
in the near future, so keep aneye out for them, of course not
(09:11):
keep an eye out for them?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Of course not.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
So how'd you get here ?
So what?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
happened from sixth grade until now?
No, of course not.
Of course not.
But it's the evolution of of mybrand, of figuring out how do I
serve my clients better.
And, honestly, that's where itcame up for me, Because one
thing that I really genuinelycare about is making sure that I
have a service and a processthat is really good.
(09:35):
That is actually something thatwill serve my clients and that
will really change theirbusinesses in a way.
And so, for me, in that processof figuring out well, how do I
give them a true differentiatingfactor, something that is
genuinely going to help them getbetter results, is when I came
up with the angle of mastery formyself and it was one of those
(09:57):
things that is like happen inthe most random way how that
phrase in particular came to me.
Now, obviously, since I createdthis I'll tell you in a second
second but since that phrasecame to me, I've developed
entire frameworks andmethodologies around it.
But so it was like an unlock,like it was literally I was
searching for the phrase and itwas like the most, like the
(10:19):
craziest circumstances.
My dad had a kidney transplant,my mom was the donor and while
both of them were recoveringfrom surgery, my I have three
kids, my kids.
I was alone with my kids.
My husband had to well fromVenezuela.
Originally, my husband had totravel for Venezuela to have his
passport renew.
(10:39):
I was in absolute overwhelm inthat moment, like start like my
kid in the swing just pushingher, and then angle of mastery,
like that phrase came in and Iwas like, oh my god, that is it.
And I literally startedrecording voice notes to myself
and this whole thing, and thenoff of that I've built an entire
(11:01):
framework process.
How do you how to help myclients create their own like
kind of angle of mastery phrasesand stuff like that?
So it was like this whole kindof crazy thing.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh my God, that's a beautiful story and I can only
imagine the pressure you wereunder and maybe the takeaway
there is, like you got to beopen, seeking and ready for
those moments, that clarity tohit, would you agree?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
A hundred percent, and I think that that's when
they come in, though that's whenthat clarity comes in.
I think that the more that we Imean you have to have a
framework and a process, likelearning to ride a bike you have
to learn.
Okay, I have to put my feethere, I have to move my feet, I
have to keep my balance, butsuddenly you're like, like if
(11:49):
you're not thinking about thewhole thing, but you have the
foundations there, and so whenyou let go is when that comes
through at the same time, likeyou have the foundation, but
then you're also allowingyourself to receive the ideas
and the and like thatinspiration.
I do have a very specificprocess for that, though, but I
do think that oftentimes, whenwe let go is when the best ideas
can come through.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, yes, and I'm with you.
I understand, like the process,the mechanics of doing things
and then the kind of magicalstuff that you got to that I got
to leave space for.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And, and so the idea, the phrase, the framework of
angle of mastery became clear.
Where you're at the park andyour family was in the hospital
or recovering from, like serioussurgery, your husband's out of
the country, like that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But what I want I want to make sure the folks
don't miss is it's not like youwere just walking in the park
and this great idea happenedupon you.
There was what years of workand grinding and working it all
out before that awakening?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Okay, yes, and so for folks that are like in that
space I feel like everybody Iknow is in that space right now,
including me like in the clunky, bumpy, wonky space of like.
I know I can deliver value, butI don't know how to say it
clearly yet and knowing thatyou're like a phenomenal brand
(13:20):
strategist and your messaging isabsolutely clear, what was it
like back then?
What were the stepping stonesthat you built upon before you
had that moment of clarity?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, okay, so this is a kind of a crazy story.
Maybe not, but I love it, so II like I was sharing before.
I'm originally from Venezuelaand and in 2015, we came to the
US.
To be completely honest, Iwanted my daughter to be an
American, so I came.
I always clarify that we camelegally, though we had.
(13:55):
I don't know why I feel like theneed to be like.
I had a work visa.
I did not come illegally, it'sfine, but just in case everybody
ever hears this, that is likelet me research anyways.
And I was coming to give birthand my plan was to leave.
That was it.
But so this was September 2015.
(14:18):
But about like a few monthsafter my daughter was born, my
husband and I were like I have,a situation in Venezuela is
getting worse and it's gettingtrickier, and then we just made
a decision to stay.
Mind you, it's been almost 10years.
I have not gone back toVenezuela since then.
I had an apartment with a babynursery, all my clothes,
everything that was kind ofthere until last year when we
(14:39):
finally rented the apartment,but it was like frozen in time
and so we made the decision tostay.
At the time, my husband he is asinger, but at the time he was
working as a singer and he wouldtravel to Venezuela to do shows
and concerts there andbasically that's kind of how we
were making our income.
But I had a background in inbranding.
I've been doing this from since2007 and I had an MBA and I had
(15:03):
all this kind of knowledge.
But my business in Venezuela wasall word of mouth and it was in
the local currency.
It wasn't in US dollars, so itwasn't something that was like
easily translated to dollars.
So, anyways, I was like I needto start building my business.
As the country, venezuelastarts to shut down more and
more, our income from myhusband's show starts to cut off
(15:24):
.
Because if you're not alignedwith basically I don't want to
get into politics but thedictatorship you don't get to
perform.
So essentially, my husbandended up, you know, not going
back, and so we were like, okay,we need to figure out a way to
build a business here.
So I started investing incoaching programs and marketing
to figure out what to do.
(15:45):
At that time I was doing mostlylike web design and yet some
messaging.
I always knew that messagingwas important and the core of
things.
But what I was being taughtback then, which is still being
taught today, which is crazy tome is a lot of that pain.
Marketing let's agitatepeople's pain, let's talk about
how bad the problem is, we'llget into is a lot of that pain.
(16:05):
Marketing let's agitatepeople's pain, let's talk about
how bad the problem is.
We'll get into this a lot,cause I can really go into this
topic and like how, what type ofpressure can you use to get
people to buy almost?
And like how do I do sales andall of these things?
And I started implementing andit started working.
But I would also attract a lotof people who were broke, who
could not work with me, whocouldn't afford it, and I was
(16:27):
not going to be the type ofsalesperson that can enroll that
type of person, because that'snot who I am.
It just never felt right.
I just couldn't.
It was like okay, I know thatthere's people that could enroll
you, but if you have to sellyour car to work with me, please
don't sell your car.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Like please don't sell your car Like please.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
You got other things Priorities.
Yes, of course, you needbranding and messaging, but you
need to eat, so please eat.
Anyways, I started growing mybusiness and, little by little,
it started moving more and moreinto messaging.
And so one day in, I think,like in 2021, I was like I feel
that this type of message doesnot resonate with me.
(17:05):
This type of pain marketingstrategy everybody's talking
about it.
It's like the bro marketing wayof doing things.
It doesn't resonate with me asa buyer.
I don't buy when you're talkingto me in this condescending
poor you way.
I'm here to save you, right.
So I don't buy into that.
To save you Right.
(17:28):
I don't buy into that.
Why would I, my audience, buyinto that?
So it was like a very bolddecision on my end, but I was
like I'm going to do thingscompletely different.
I had zero evidence of it, butI was just convinced that there
was a way of doing right.
And, mind you, now I call thatstrategy being the Ursula, which
is you're speaking to the poorunfortunate souls, that's it,
(17:49):
you got it.
There's a new little mermaidmovie, so now everybody can get
that reference, but but that'swhat I call it.
It's like when you're becomingthe Ursula, when you're talking
to the poor unfortunate soulsand your whole messaging.
And so I was like I'm not doingthat anymore.
I'm going to speak to thepeople who who are like me, I
have a problem.
And so I was like I'm not doingthat anymore.
I'm going to speak to thepeople who who are like me, I
have a problem.
And I'm like, okay, who do Ihire?
What do I do?
(18:10):
How do I fix it?
I'm not like, oh, miserable,falling apart, full of anxiety,
can't sleep, my life is fallingapart.
I'm a smart person, I don't, Idon't, I don't need that message
.
So I shifted that was kind ofthe first piece of my messaging
transformation to really speakagainst that a lot, and which
meant also that a lot of thecoaches that I and I never said
(18:33):
anything by name, but a lot ofthose coaches were like blocking
me off everywhere and like allthe things really pissed at me
and I'm like, yeah, go ahead,you're going to say something.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I've been wondering because you made a dramatic
shift from the norm, fromconventional thinking, from the
wisdom of those amazing coachesout there, and obviously I mean
you just started talking aboutit, right, there was friction.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And you also said that you didn't have any
evidence that this was going towork.
And you did.
Said that you didn't have anyevidence that this was going to
work and you did it anyway.
So, if you could like expand,what did that feel like?
How did you reconcile?
Okay, all these fools,everything out there is telling
me this is the way, but righthere within me, this is telling
me there's a better way.
(19:20):
How did you reconcile and stayresolute in doing what you saw
needed to be done?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It just had to be done, period For me.
I am really good at trusting mygut and at following intuition.
God, however you want to viewit, however you see it, for me
it was really clear and it'sfunny because, coming back to
the linkedin, like how I?
What happened with linkedin?
yeah, it was a similar thing.
I had been building my businesson facebook since 2015.
That was it.
I had it clear and dominated,and so last year I had this
(20:00):
moment where I felt like I'mdone with Facebook.
It was working for me.
I still run ad through Facebookand they work really well, but
my organic stuff I can't evenexplain to you.
It was almost like a physicalsensation of leave.
And same thing with this, likeUrsula language.
It was like stop.
(20:21):
From one day to another, I waslike buy Facebook, my gut just
told me go to LinkedIn, andthat's how stop.
From one day to another, I waslike by Facebook, my gut just
told me go to LinkedIn, andthat's how I just moved over to
LinkedIn after not doinganything on LinkedIn, basically
ever.
But that's the same thing thathappened with the messaging.
It was like I don't have anyevidence of this necessarily,
but it's.
It was common sense to me interms of messaging.
(20:42):
If my message says you'repowerless and you're full of
anxiety and you feel likenothing is going to work, how is
it a surprise when I get on asales call and somebody tells me
I don't think that this isgoing to work, because nothing
has ever worked and I'm tooafraid to invest, Like I
literally called you into myprogram.
That was exactly why am Isurprised when that's what I'm
(21:04):
getting back?
So we have to be so carefulwith our content and our message
and really discern and be likewait, does this make sense?
And so it was just common sensefor me.
It was like I don't haveevidence of this, but this is
logical.
You don't see, I don't know,like Mercedes Benz, I don't know
Bentley have commercials thatare like your car is falling
(21:26):
apart.
Come find my car for you.
You're so sad Transmissions.
I don't know anything aboutcars.
They don't do that, so why isit that I have to do that?
It doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right, right, okay.
So I'm going to go a littledeeper on this intuition and gut
thing, because I'm told, likeyou and I sister, you don't even
know, like everybody knows,like man, you're crazy, like
yeah, I know, but it's becauseI'm compelled.
There's something I call it thewhispers, but there's something
that just makes it super damnclear that this is what I need
(21:59):
to do.
No evidence, no nothing.
And so most people think, likeI said, I'm nuts.
No evidence, no nothing.
And so most people think, likeI said, I'm nuts.
But in terms of your situation,you, clearly you have embraced
your intuition and your gut.
How did you, or where does thatcome from?
Where does your confidence indoing that?
(22:19):
Or are you all maybe adifferent way to think about it
is were you always so confidentabout what you felt and thought
or sensed in the world, or didthat develop over time?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I feel like it definitely developed over time.
I have been always reallyconfident in who I am as a
person in general, like in mythoughts as a child, always like
, not the type of be, like letme follow this trend, or or I
want to be part of this group,or whatever it was like.
I'm just am who I am.
But I think that there's been alot, of, a lot of personal
(22:52):
development work.
That I've done is a lot ofcoaching and a lot of just
exploration let's call it likereally looking for connection,
and what I have learned is thatI can't un-listen to it number
one.
But the more that I listen tothose how you call them whispers
, it's like I'm just being ledand if I ignore it, things
(23:14):
become harder.
And I'll give you one example.
This happened to me last week.
This never happens to me, mindyou.
I was on a call with somebodyand she was like a potential
client and not quite in theplace where she could invest,
and my gut, jesse, was like youneed to give this person your
(23:34):
program.
Like never happens, maybe oncea year.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Once every two years, and I was like you know what?
I need to enroll you into theprogram.
I can't even explain it, Icould feel it in my throat.
It was like you need to do thisand so I have to trust that I
can't move away from it.
I can't even explain it, butit's something that I've
definitely developed and I'mvery in tune with and I follow
(24:00):
it, Always in tune with and Ifollow it always.
I always follow it, Even if itdoesn't make sense in the moment
.
I think that for me, justhaving so much connection with
God spirituality that is justmakes it stronger and I pray for
it too.
It's like, just and tell mewhat to do and I will do it.
Like, whatever you tell me todo, I will freaking do it, I
(24:22):
will follow your lead.
So I try to just build on thatlike, build on that evidence of
that of like.
Whenever I do this, look atthen what happens and how much
abundance shows up.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yes, yeah, oh, amazing, and, and so thank you,
cause now I'm not the only one.
What I think you said that isis key, that I want people to
hear like listeners out there.
All of us have been in a spacewhere we put in a ton of time
and a ton of effort and a ton ofenergy and we're fighting,
(24:53):
running uphill all the time, andit doesn't have to be that way.
Like you said, all I have to dois allow myself to be led and
it just happens.
It's frictionless.
It may not make sense in themoment, but on the long term,
it's amazing.
Like it's clear, it's easy, butwe have to create the
(25:15):
conditions for us to receive.
Part of that is like taking careof yourself and maintaining
your connections with yourpeople, your spirituality, all
of the things, and so I guessthe main point is folks out
there, if you're experiencing alot of friction, maybe you're
not listening to the whispersenough, or that guiding light,
(25:38):
or whatever you need to call it.
I call it the whispers.
It just makes more sense for me.
Okay, so you listened to you,you followed your intuition and
your gut.
You made the change.
No more Ursula, pluto, ariel.
That's all we're going to betalking about now.
What was the impact in terms ofyour clientele and operating
(25:59):
your business?
What was that shift for you?
It was really powerful.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
It was powerful in many different ways.
So the first thing is that Iwould get messages from people
telling me like, for example, Iwrote a post about how my
audience was filled with actiontakers, how my ideal clients
were action takers who are notafraid to do the work, and
immediately I got a DM fromsomebody like that is me a
(26:24):
hundred percent, you're speakingto me, that is exactly how I am
.
And she literally enrolled thatsame week.
So I had people who wereshowing up from just different
level of people, people thatwere much more ready.
I felt like I was attractingmore experts.
It wasn't so much about howmuch knowledge they had, but it
(26:45):
was about the drive within themand, like I'm ready, it was a
mindset thing.
So that started happening a lotLike the level of people that
we were attracting, the amountof people that would come in and
pay in full versus doingpayment plans and like little
things like that.
But then that also meant for meand this was the pain in the
(27:05):
butt part, though that it waslike okay, if I'm attracting a
different caliber of person whohas these different expectations
less handholding, much moreresourceful, much more action
takers I need to make sure thatmy program is really tailored
for those people, which meantthat then I had to rerecord
(27:27):
everything, oh everything.
I had all these videos, I hadall these things and I had all
these processes.
I had to redo everythingbecause now it's like, okay, if
I'm talking to an action taker,I can't give them 20 videos.
Sure, they're going to watchthem, but I need to make sure
that it's much more actionable.
And if I'm talking to peoplethat are much smarter, I can't
(27:49):
come in here and talk about like, let's do an ideal client
avatar exercise.
I'm assuming that you alreadyknow how to do that, that you've
already done that before,because this is what I do is not
beginner messaging stuff, it'smuch more.
I have a mind that says like Ifeel like I just got a master's
degree in messaging.
It was like super advanced.
So all of the stuff that feltto beginner, I just moved it
(28:13):
into like a course, like aself-study course that I have
for people I want to finduncover the foundations of
messaging right.
I really needed to make surethat all of it sounded like I've
never heard of anybody talkabout this before.
So even my concept of who myaudience is changed from.
Okay, I'm speaking to, I'm notdoing the Ursula.
(28:33):
I used to say I'm speaking tothe ready to invest clients, and
now I'm talking to power buyer.
That's who my audience is, andso everything is structured
around.
How do we speak to power buyers?
And so I had to look ateverything and look at my
funnels and my content and makesure that all of it was like
matching, from the words in myad copy to the landing page, to
(28:56):
the webinar, to the email, tothe text message, to everything
needed to be really aligned.
It's a lot of work.
It was a lot of work.
Yeah, I mean it took, and itstill happens to this day.
It continues to evolve, but itwas really worth it, cause now
it's like the, the people.
Obviously we still attractpeople who won't buy, right?
I mean, I'm not, I don't have ahundred percent conversion rate
(29:18):
?
That would be insane.
It would be nice, it would beinsane.
But the great majority ofpeople who I attract are like
I'm ready, and when they enroll,they get results, they take
action.
Their business is like oh, I'vecreated this concept, this
thing, that is my thing, andpeople pay attention and so it's
like it changes theirbusinesses too.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Oh, my goodness, oh, I love.
Thank you for like sharing thatinsight.
What I want to make sure peopledon't miss is you got clarity
and shifted and it's helped youwith your clientele.
You're helping them do amazingthings, but there was work all
the way through from when youfirst started.
There's still work.
(30:00):
The work never stops people.
That's what I'm trying to tellyou.
The work never stops becauseclearly, you've invested in
yourself.
You sought out, you got coaches, you got I'm sure you probably
signed up for different seminarsand different things.
Some was really valuable, Somewas not.
What kind of advice or pointersexcept for, of course, sign up
(30:21):
with Fabi.
What pointers would you givefolks in terms of like they're
in the market and they'relooking to maybe introductory,
what should they watch out for?
I'll give some little morecontext.
I've signed up for a couple inthe past, for a couple calls,
coaching calls or whatever andit was horrible, Like yes, it
(30:41):
was another human being, butthey read their script and that
was the end of the call.
And I'm like bro, it wasanother human being, but they
read their script and that wasthe end of the call.
And I'm like bro, you couldhave sent me an email with the
video link for that, Like thatwas just not okay, Using that as
the low mark, the low watermark.
What are some things that folksneed to kind of be thinking
(31:01):
about or watch out for whenthey're seeking to make those
early investments in themselves?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I feel like there's a few things that we can unpack.
Oftentimes we get sucked intothe picture that people paint
for us and we don't really thinkabout in terms of investing.
We'll talk about the coachingcall, but we'll also talk about
investing.
We'll talk about the coachingcall, but we'll also talk about
investing.
Okay, ooh, this person says thatI'm going to get 10 new clients
(31:28):
this month or this week.
Ooh, this is exciting, let mesign.
That's exactly what I want.
But you don't really stop tothink about does the business
model make sense for me?
Do I actually see myselffollowing that business model?
And so I have invested inthings because of that in the
past.
And then I'm like do I actuallywant to be DMing people all day
(31:49):
?
Does that system reallyresonate with me?
I don't think so, and it'sreally discerning into okay,
what am I actually buying into?
Do I really want this businessmodel for myself?
And then, in terms of, likethat sales process, I do think
that it's really important foryou to build connection.
So for me, for example, the waythat we structure our sales
(32:11):
processes before we do a salescall, I do a 15 minute call that
I like to call brand messageassessment.
I've also call it brand auditand so what I do in that call is
that I will look at people'smessaging and I will literally
rewrite it for them on the calland I'll tell you okay, here's
what I would do if I were you.
Here's how I would communicate.
And I walk them through likehere are the gaps, these are the
(32:33):
things that you're missing,what you're doing wrong.
And so at the end of that call,if that person's a good fit and
they're interested, that's whenI invite them on a sales call.
But and they're interested,that's when I invite them on a
sales call.
But it's a super preciseapproach.
Obviously, there's a lot ofstrategy behind what I'm doing,
but also, in part, for me is toavoid what you were talking
about before.
I value connection and what Irealized as well is that power
(32:55):
buyers value connection too.
So people that are like oh, Iwant to sign a C-suite person,
like a CEO of a company as aclient, or I want to sign an
executive leader, or I want tosign a whatever these are people
that are not stupid.
They're not going to fall fortransaction-based marketing
(33:18):
where it's like your number,like your cattle, right.
What I find is that the morethat you give them touch points
where they you get to buildrelationships with the person,
the more likely that they are tobuy.
So in my case, that's why I dothe 15 minute call in part.
There's again, there's lots ofother reasons why there's a lot
of strategy behind that.
I'm also doing it to showpeople, like, what the problem
(33:41):
is.
I'll explain that afterwards.
But then also from there, whenthey move into the sales call,
which isn't with me, they'veI've already built such a
powerful connection.
It's easier for them to buy.
Um, the other thing, so and sowe looking at like, when you're
going through that process ofI'm thinking and investing, does
this person actually care aboutme?
Is an important question toanswer, right?
(34:01):
Or just a number for them.
Am I going to be treated likeyeah, I don't know, like they
just want me to buy and they'repressuring me to buy and they're
giving me information.
They're not really telling memuch, they're just giving me
claims and promises Mega redflag.
The other thing for me is one ofthe important things that I
tell people through the workthat I do is that most people
(34:23):
have a messaging problem, not amarketing problem.
Most people think that it'smarketing.
So they're like let me get moreleads or let me get more
visibility, or let me startrunning ads, or let me do
LinkedIn or TikTok or YouTube orwhatever, hire appointment
setters or whatever.
But that's not the problem.
The problem is that yourmessage is going to speak to the
(34:43):
wrong people.
So if you're just focusing onmarketing, you're going to keep
on attracting the wrong people,no matter what strategy you use.
You're just amplifying a brokenmessage.
If you were in a place where youdon't have a solid message,
investing in marketing is a way.
(35:05):
It's not that it's a waste ofmoney, but you're going to leak
so much money.
It's going to be reallyexpensive for you to scale.
So I always recommend that youinvest in messaging, not first,
but like whether you'rebeginning in your business or
whether you're like have amillion dollar company, I don't
know whatever it is like.
Have a million dollar company,I don't know whatever it is it's
(35:25):
.
You really need to take a closelook at your message to make
sure that when you put gasolineinto it and invest in marketing,
it's spent on the right people,Like you're bringing the right
people in, and so yourconversion rates are higher too.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So oh yeah, oh my God .
The phrase you said is you'rejust amplifying a broken message
.
Yeah, that is powerful.
Because how many of us do that?
Some of the work I do iscoaching, continuous improvement
and deployment of change withinorganizations, and I'm just
telling you right now, I stealthat.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Go for it.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Because a lot of times when I'm talking with the
decision makers or theinfluencers within the
organization, I'm like, hey, Iknow we're going to do this, but
let's get clear, what's themessage, what's the story we're
going to tell?
We're like we want to getbetter.
I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Be careful, because if youstart that, you're going to be
sending a bad message.
The way you said it wasamplifying a broken message.
(36:19):
It's not because we suck, it'sbecause we want to dominate the
market.
Those are same, maybe,behaviors, but two totally
different messages, exactly.
So thank you for that.
Now you touched ontransactional and relational.
What you described to me, theone-on-one 15-minute
conversation, where you kind ofgive the assessment and say this
(36:42):
is broken, fix this, thinkabout that.
I bet you get people sayinglike, why do you give away so
much for free?
But you also pointed out likethe power buyers, they want
contact time, they wantactionable insight, and so in
this transactional, relationalbuckets, have you always been a
relational person?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah, but I've also developed it more.
In the beginning, a little bit,but then, as I went through the
process, more and more I waslike I need to build more touch
points with people.
And so, for me, I was taughtdon't give your content away
because people are going to runwith it.
And I came up with an analogylast year that I like and it's
you can go and watch TaylorSwift's videos for free on
(37:27):
YouTube, listen to her onSpotify for free, and yet look
at what that world tour did,which was insanity, right.
It's never going to be the sameconsuming free content than paid
content.
The 15 minute calls that I haveare extremely valuable, but
they're 15 minutes long.
Your problem is not going to besolved in 15 minutes.
(37:49):
Even if I give you which I givepeople copy for free, it's not
going to be solved.
And so the people that thinkthat it will, please take it and
use it.
I hope it helps you, right?
I hope it helps you because ifyou think that this is enough,
you know okay, then youdefinitely need it, right.
(38:10):
But the people that are smarter, they're like okay, help me do
that.
I want to learn how to do that.
How do I implement that?
What does that look like?
For me, it's like a big mindsetshift that has to change, versus
just changing your copy.
The work that I do isn't aboutjust updating your website.
It's about fundamentallychanging how you view your
(38:31):
audience and how you view yourvalue and what you're selling,
and so if you don't know how todo that, I can give you your
whole website copy if you wantwhole website copy, if you want.
You're still not going to makea difference, because when you
go to a podcast interview orwhen you are creating a video,
you have no clue what to do, andso for me it's like a great way
(38:52):
of delivering value.
And people feel like at the endof that call, like, wow, this is
.
I have a whole page of liketestimonials that people have
sent me about that call and theyfeel like, wow, this is amazing
.
But I again, like I know, youknow, it's not enough.
I mean, it's a great start butit's not going to fix the
problem for you.
So I'm all about like let'sjust give value.
(39:14):
I would rather give, becausehere's one thing that I want to
say, one thing that I realize isthat money, at the end of the
day, is an exchange of value,and so the more value that I
give, the more value that I get.
And so I would rather just givevalue for free, because I know,
coming back to that spiritualpart, I live in an abundance
(39:38):
world and I believe in that, andso why am I holding back from
sharing the best?
Now, obviously, there are waysof doing that strategically, so
that you don't end up attractingpeople that are like, great,
thank you Bye, which you don'twant to do.
And I can even tell you theexact number.
It's January 14th, so the monthis just getting started, and
this month I want to tell youthe exact number, so you know
(40:02):
I'll open it up this month, eventhough I'm giving away content
for free and that call I've had.
Where is it?
80% of the people book salescalls regardless.
So I'm giving you free content.
I'm telling you at the end ofthe call this is a sales call
that you're going to have.
They're going to walk youthrough my process.
(40:23):
They're going to walk youthrough the investment it is.
There is an investment involved.
Do you want to do a sales call?
80% of the people are like 100%, I want to do that call.
What's the next step?
How do I enroll?
I mean, give away value forfree 80% is phenomenal, that's
(40:43):
an outstanding result.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Congratulations.
And again, folks, if you didn'tcatch it, if you didn't hear,
it was a result of providing anddelivering value for free a
human with another human toserve somebody else.
And then the 80% happened.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, I love how you said that, because that's the
problem.
Problem is that we all want toautomate everything, whether
it's through bots or AI, orpeople in the Philippines that
are sending a thousand Ds perday, or whatever.
We all want to automateeverything, but power buyers are
not.
I mean, you can automate piecesof the process, of course, like
(41:34):
you can like.
For example, what happens isthat after somebody does the 15
minute call with me, they get aseries of text messages from me
and a series of emails from methat are nurturing them even
more, but they had the call withme already and so, and then
they have the call with my teamas well, and there's a lot of
pieces in there that are reallybuilt purposefully, but you
(41:54):
can't automate actual connectionand real relationships.
You can't.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I'm laughing because, you know, since chat, gppt and
all these other things havebecome more and more popular or
more used, I see people using itto fill this connection gap and
it's like no, no, no, flip it.
Yeah, use it to automate all ofthe stuff that keeps you from
connecting so that you canconnect more, right?
(42:26):
I?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
mean you can tell.
You can tell when posts arewritten by AI, comments are
written by AI.
It's like, okay, dude, you'rewasting your time, right, it's
not going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Right, right, oh, my God, it's so, so awesome.
Okay, so you transitioned theangle of mastery, had to
redesign your whole business.
You started attracting powerbuyers.
You're now serving people andhelping them attract power
buyers.
What are some?
Because everybody thinks theywant a power buyer.
(42:59):
Until they get a power buyer,what are some of the things that
people that want to have thatpower buyer as their client that
they need to have in order,otherwise it ain't going to
happen for long-term.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, there's one more piece of the equation.
I'll tell you what it is afterI answer your question.
So, basically, it's reallyrecognizing within your content
whether that is your program orhow your framework, your methods
, whatever it's looking at.
Well, does everything makesense for this audience or do I
(43:35):
have to change something?
Or is there something here thatit needs to shift within what
I'm doing to make sure that it'sserving them?
The process has to be reallyclean, meaning that message has
to be congruent everywhere,otherwise you can lose people in
the process.
But it's more about mindset.
It's also about, like, reallybelieving that you can serve
(43:55):
them.
One thing that I often tell myclients and it's a phrase that I
often use it's this idea thatyour capacity to make sales
comes down to your capacity toreceive clients.
What that means is thatoftentimes we're like I want
more clients and I want to makemore money.
I want, but you don't haveeither the systems in place or
you don't have.
Bringing in more clients wouldbe a real nightmare for you, and
(44:18):
so for me, for example, I valuemy time a lot, and so I have
three kids and I work from 11 tothree.
That's it Monday throughThursday.
On Fridays I schedule out emailsbut I don't have any meetings
or anything else.
There are days when I go alittle bit over three.
For the most part, I work from11 to three.
At three o'clock I go out, Ipick up my kids from school and
(44:41):
I spend the afternoon with themdoing homework and whatever, and
that's it Like.
That is that's something Ireally value.
If I'm in a place where I say,okay, I want to grow my business
, I want to bring in moreclients, I need to make sure
that my program or the containercan fit more people, without
meaning that now I'm workinguntil 10 PM or I worked earlier
(45:01):
because those times are likethat for a reason.
Like I go to the gym in themorning, it's something that I
value, I have like my morningroutine and something that I
value, and so that's why I startwork at 11.
And having the space builtwithin your business, the
support that you need if that'swhat matters, or whatever, to
make sure that you can receivemore is what matters most.
(45:22):
So that's kind of what I wouldsay.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, I love like this, the influx of work or
backlog revenue whateverlanguage you like to use that
you think you want.
As soon as you get it, it'sgoing to surface the problems in
your system and that's not abad thing.
But, like when you're workingwith power buyers, you need to
fix it fast.
So ready to fix it?
Speaker 1 (45:46):
but it's a good challenge too, because it's like
then you have to be like.
You know, I had a client that Iwork with at the end of last
year, for example, who was likea badass, like I was like yeah
oh my, how did I even attractthis person?
you spoke at the World EconomicForum or World Business Forum, I
think it's called in Spain andhad multiple PhDs, and she was
(46:11):
like I need your help.
And I'm like, okay, but thenwhat happens is that when I
serve clients that are like that, that are that have a lot of
knowledge, a lot ofunderstanding of a lot of
different things.
What that does for me is that itpushes me to be like okay, let
me look at my program.
(46:32):
How do I make sure that this isgoing to serve that person?
Or for her?
In her case, she was aone-on-one client, so I write
her messaging for her and allthese different things.
I need to make sure that thisblows her away, that she's like
wow, right.
So I just worked that muchharder, but in that process I
create new frameworks and ideasand stuff like that too, which
is awesome too.
So amazing.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
So there's the added benefit you attract the power
buyers and, as a result ofsupporting them and serving them
, you got to get better.
So their expectations and theirperformance drives you to get
better, and it's this likevirtuous cycle of improvement in
service.
Okay, what pieces of theequation have we missed?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Okay.
So the first part for me wasspeaking to the power buyers.
That's the first thing thatchanged, and so once I was like,
wait a minute, I can't do theUrsula anymore, I need to speak
to the power buyers, and Ichanged that.
The next piece was okay, nowthat I have a track that I'm
speaking more to these people,how do I really catch their
attention even more?
And that's when the angle ofmastery concept was developed.
(47:36):
But then the third part in thisthird part is the thing that I
came up with last year issomething that I like to call
the need to have formula, whichis turning what you do into a
need to have, because it's likeI can sell you into this concept
.
But how do I make sure that itfeels like a need to have versus
a nice to have, need to haveversus a nice to have?
(48:00):
And what I find is that mostpeople, the way that they
communicate what they do, soundslike a nice to have.
It would be nice for me toinvest in leadership in whatever
coaching, spiritual coachingrelationship.
A consultant would be nice.
Do I need to spend this money?
Wow, and so it's.
How do you turn what you dointo a need to have.
One of the things that I tellpeople is that for a certain
(48:23):
audience, a $50,000 Hermes bagis a need to have right.
Sure All communicationeverything becomes a need to
have if you know how tocommunicate it and articulate it
effectively.
So for me, that next part ofthat equation was okay, we know
we're speaking to power buyers,we have this angle of mastery
that we're selling, but how dowe make sure that what I do
(48:45):
really feels like I need that?
Not from a place of neediness,because that's Ursula's right,
but from a place of like no, no,no, I need to have that, that's
what I'm looking for.
And so that was the next partof that equation for me.
That was what I spent a lot oflast year developing that
framework around that, and Icall it the need to have formula
(49:05):
.
It's like the whole system forturning what you do into a real
need to have in terms of yourcommunication, but then also
looking at the program as welland making sure that what you're
selling is like kind of comingback to what we were seeing
before truly serving thataudience and removing the excess
so that it feels genuinely likeI need that.
So that was the last part.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I think that's just like the uppercut right, like
that's the knockout punch there.
How much do your clients, orpeople in general, struggle,
from a mindset perspective, inmessaging their services as a
need to have?
Do you find that to be like acommon sticking point with your
clients?
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Sometimes I think that what happens is that when
you go through the process, thatprocess overcomes that
objection, because when you'respeaking to the power buyer
versus the Ursula people, thenyou understand that your work is
a need to have for them, and so, therefore, it becomes really
easy to show them no, no, no.
(50:07):
It is obviously.
I think that it comes up morewhen people are newer, like two,
two, new.
You're going to feel like what?
But but still, even in thatcase, it there it's.
It's always a need to have whenyou're selling it to the right
people.
It's not a need to have for youto sell, kind of coming back to
what we were talking aboutbefore something to somebody
(50:27):
that is like I need to sell mycar to buy this Unless you're
selling them a new car Rightright, going to afford it.
(50:53):
Who have the mindset we're goingto take action?
Who are those people?
And so it doesn't.
There's not as much of an issue, mindset wise, unless you're
like two, two new is what Iwould say.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that makes sense and Icould see that the key point,
folks, if you didn't catch it isgoing through the process that
you teach to your system.
The service that you providehelps people get there.
So if you're like me in thatyou're really good at advocating
for the people you know andtelling everybody how amazing
they are and you stink athelping people know how amazing
(51:28):
you are, this system or thisprocess helps you overcome that.
Whatever we'll just call itfriction, whatever that friction
is, which is powerful becauseit's an uncomfortable thing.
A lot of us have hangovers fromthe way we were brought up, the
way we were raised and allthese funky things.
But if the process fixed that,double, double awesomeness, Okay
(51:51):
.
So I got one last question foryou.
But before I ask that question,if there's a power buyer up now
, how do they get ahold of you?
What's the best way for thepower buyers to get ahold of you
?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And for the you know, the curious, the interested
people do you have two ways thatthey can connect with you.
So two things that we can do.
The first one is the, the brandmessage assessment that I
mentioned, and so you go tobrand message sessioncom to be
able to book that.
It isn't a sales call, it's a15 minute super value-based call
.
I will take a look at yourmessaging myself.
So it's not even with somebodyelse, it's with me and cause
(52:28):
people sometimes are like wait,it's you, yeah, it's me, and I
will write the messaging for you.
So brandmessagesessioncom.
And then, if you want to godeeper into the concepts that we
talked about today power buyers, angle of mastery, the need to
have formula, what that processlooks like.
More, I have a training atreadytoinvestclientscom.
(52:50):
I need to upgrade, update thatto say powerbuyerscom, but right
now it's readytoinvestclicom,ready to investclanscom, and
that's where you're going tofind that training, where I go a
little bit deeper intoexplaining these concepts and
how they show up in yourbusiness.
And so that's another way to go.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Awesome, and you can follow you on LinkedIn and.
Youtube.
I found you on LinkedInBeautiful, great messages, love
the video, and I just discoveredthat you had a youtube channel,
so of course, I got.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
You're gonna have to look at the description and the
episode to learn how to typethat, but everywhere, basically
yes, and we'll make sure, folks,the links are going to be down
in the description and all thewonderfulness.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
You're ready for the last softball question.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Okay, let's see.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Now you clearly have an understanding of abundance
and you follow your intuitionand the whispers.
You're about service, You'reabout connection and you've been
super gracious with your timeand connecting with me on the
LinkedIn and then talking now.
So I'm like excited about whatyour answer is going to be.
(53:59):
What is the promise you areintended to be?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
That's a great question, very easy, quick
question to answer.
Well, I think that for me, whatimmediately comes up and what
has come up in the past not witha similar question, because I
haven't been asked that but it'sabout helping people create the
message that matters to them,and for me, that's what it's
been about.
(54:26):
It's about really discoveringwhat truly matters to me what,
what do I want to know, be knownfor?
But it's beyond that.
It's what matters right, and sothat's what I'm here to do and
that's what matters to me.
It's helping people create themessage that matters to them, so
that you're uplifting everybodyelse and you're uplifting
yourself in that process, whichI think, ultimately, is what we
(54:48):
all want to do.
It's like let's raise theconversation everywhere,
internally first, hello, butthen externally as well, through
the content that you'recreating, through the work that
you're putting out there,through the people that you're
serving, through everything thatyou do and who you help and how
you impact lives.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
And I think it's really.
It comes down to that messagethat matters part.
Oh my God, I knew it Likeserving others.
As one grows, we all grow.
Amazing, did you have fun?
Speaker 1 (55:19):
That was awesome.
That was super fun.
Did you have fun?
I gave it all.
Oh, my goodness, that wasawesome.
Jesse, thank you so much.
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