July 14, 2025 • 21 mins
Why Did Your Referral Sources Dry Up?
Referrals are the lifeblood of many law practices, but what happens when this vital stream of business mysteriously dries up? The answer might be more systematic than you think.
Most attorneys operate under a dangerous misconception: that referral relationships are built on loyalty. The harsh reality? Referrals come from relevance, not loyalty.
The solution requires a mindset shift: stop treating referrals as random favors and start managing them as a strategic marketing channel.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Why aren't your referral sources sending you
cases anymore?
Welcome to Legal Marketing 101.
I'm Toby Rosen.
Five years ago you might havehad the best referral network on
the planet, but maybe todayyou're not really getting the
referrals you used to.
Where did they all go?
It can't all just be because ofCOVID, can it?
(00:26):
This episode we're talking aboutattorneys that rely on
referrals and we're talkingabout what the downsides on that
are, because I love referralsand obviously networking and
getting into referrals issomething that I'm really a big
fan of.
It's not something I can helpwith that often, but it's
something I think is terrific.
The firms I work with that havereally strong referral networks
(00:47):
are the firms where we get toactually have a lot of fun.
We get to try differentmarketing strategies, we get to
do different things, test things, turn things on and off, and
it's all because we have thatstrong referral network base.
So today we're talking aboutwhy these referrals might have
been drying up over the lastcouple of years, what really
causes it whether it's in thisparticular instance or just your
(01:09):
referral source drying up ingeneral and we're talking about
a couple of strategies toactually fix that problem.
So let's start by busting amyth that quietly costs law
firms a lot of serious revenue,and that's the idea that
referral sources are loyal.
Because most of the timethey're not, at least not in the
way we like to think, becausereferrals, they don't come from
(01:32):
loyalty, they come fromrelevance, and that's why we're
talking about this.
And when you're no longerrelevant to someone's client
base, you're going to stopgetting their referrals.
It is just that simple.
It is harsh, but yeah, it'strue.
And here's the part that noone's talking about.
Most of the time you don't evenknow that this is happening.
Referral attrition is silent.
(01:54):
You don't get an alert when aCPA decides to send their next
client to a different estateplanning attorney.
Nobody emails you to say hey,just a heads up, I'm moving on.
You just, you don't get thecase, that's all.
And you don't know that youdidn't get the case because
we're not going to get into thatlogic.
And then the next one, and thenthe next one, and by the time
(02:15):
you notice the pattern, it'salready a trend and it's over.
So why do these referral sourcesmove on?
Sometimes it's just aperception issue.
They think you're busy.
They think maybe you haven'tfollowed up.
They heard you're in trial allmonth.
I mean, there's a millionthings that silence can come off
as not taking new clients, evenif that's not true at all, and
(02:36):
other times you're just not topof mind anymore.
Someone else has been morevisible.
They're posting on LinkedIn,they're popping up at bar events
, maybe even dropping a note tosay thanks for a past case, and
all the time that visibility,visibility wins.
And then there's the alignment.
This one is really big.
Let's say, you used to do a lotof high net worth divorce work,
(02:58):
but lately you've shifted moretowards custody support cases,
that kind of thing.
If your referral partners don'tnecessarily understand that
shift, they might assume you'reno longer the best fit for the
kind of clients that they sent.
Or, even worse, they couldassume that you're still doing
what you were doing three yearsago or something that you never
did before, whatever it is, andthat might no longer serve their
(03:18):
needs.
But the good news is that thisisn't about begging for business
or just networking harder.
It's about understanding thereal dynamics behind referrals
and adjusting your approachaccordingly.
Because once you let go of thiswhole myth of loyalty that you
bought this guy lunch once andhe's always going to send you
his cases.
Then you can start buildingsystems around relevance, and
(03:39):
that's where things are going tostart to click, even if the guy
you bought lunch for hates you.
That's where things are goingto start to click, even if the
guy you bought lunch for hatesyou.
Let's be honest If referralshave slowed down, it's probably
not just because your contactsgot busy or moved away or
changed their phone numbers.
In a lot of cases, the breakdownstarts on your end.
You are the one who dropped theball and before you get
defensive, know that thishappens to everyone.
(04:03):
You get caught up in trial prep.
You get caught in a big hiringpush, marketing campaigns and,
all of a sudden, that estateplanning attorney who used to
send you the cases every quarter, the the mental health
professional who sent youdivorce cases radio silence.
It's because you stoppednurturing the relationship, and
that's normal.
That's normal in businessrelationships, that's normal in
(04:23):
human relationships.
That's normal in humanrelationships.
When was the last time you senta genuine thank you after a
referral?
Not an automated email, a realfollow-up, something that says
hey, I appreciate you trustingme with this client?
Almost none of us are doingthis as often as we should be
doing it.
(04:43):
What about an update a fewweeks later just to let them
know how things are going.
If you're not closing theseloops, you're leaving your
referrers in the dark and thaterodes trust, whether you're
paying attention to it or not,or whether that person is
thinking about it or not.
Doing it is what helps buildthe trust Without telling them.
They don't know if you tookcare of the client, if the
matter is still pending or ifthe person just ghosted you
(05:04):
completely and nothing everhappened.
And when they feel unsure,they're going to stop referring.
Simple as that.
And I've seen it on the flipside Attorneys have referred
other attorneys to me who neverfollowed up, who never reached
out, and they never checked inwhether or not that person
checked in with me.
It's basically never happened.
Another common issue is that wenever built a system.
(05:26):
This is really hard to do forreferrals Well, not really, but
it's really hard to wrap yourbrain around sometimes.
But you can build a real system.
You might assume that justbecause someone referred you one
solid case, they're going to doit forever.
But that is not a relationship.
That's just wishful thinking orsomebody you met once.
Strong referral networks requireactual structure.
(05:47):
They require regular check-ins,a process notes.
Otherwise, you're just hopingthat lightning strikes twice,
and I'm sure you all have aweird uncle that had lightning
strike.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
But let's quickly talk about aless obvious culprit that can
seriously affect your referralsources.
(06:08):
This is your intake process or,really worse, your website.
We need to talk about the wholefunnel and, yeah, your site or
your GMB.
It might have been fine fiveyears ago, but does it still
really reflect the level ofservice that your referrers
expect?
Put yourself in their shoes, andI mean this literally.
Sometimes, if they send aclient your way and that person
(06:29):
hits a broken contact form, theywait five days for a call back
or they get passed around bysome confused receptionist.
That is embarrassing.
It's not just embarrassing foryou, it's embarrassing for the
person who made that referralbecause their advice was not
good.
A poor client experiencereflects directly on the person
who made the introduction.
On top of the whole reflectionon you thing, you're now
(06:51):
embarrassing other peopleoutside your law firm.
If your systems make them lookbad, they are not, I'm not going
to say they're going to quietlystop putting their reputation
on the line.
They may do it loudly Sometimesthey may do it very loudly.
So, yes, referrals are aboutrelationships, but really
they're about infrastructure.
We can take the best lawyer intown, but if our followup is
(07:14):
non-existent, if he's just, youknow, over there in court every
day doing lawyer things, if ourintake's a mess, if our site
feels like it's stuck in 2012,people will move on.
Referral sources will move on,even the ones who say they used
to swear by you.
Now let's talk a little bitabout what happens outside your
firm, because even if you didn'tchange a thing, the market
(07:36):
around you definitely did.
Your competitors are notwaiting.
They're not waiting around forthese referrals to fall into
their laps.
They're not just sitting there.
They are actively courting thevery same people who used to
send you cases, and they'redoing it in ways that feel
personal and value-driven andthey might be better than your
(07:56):
system.
They're constantly showing upon LinkedIn.
They're posting smart insights,they're celebrating wins,
they're commenting on posts.
They're sending out targetedmailers or newsletters, stuff
that's actually useful data,information, sales ideas.
Some are even co-hostingwebinars or creating content
with their referral sources,building something together
(08:16):
rather than just buildingsomething that brings each other
more business.
They're building something thatbrings each other more business
together and that kind ofcollaboration builds trust fast
and it makes you look invisibleby comparison, because not only
is this guy getting thereferrals, now he's got this
public project with this companyand, oh, it's just so good from
(08:38):
a branding perspective.
That's something we really haveto watch out for.
Because here's another big shiftspecialization.
The days of I know a goodgeneral litigator they're kind
of behind us.
We now say I need someone whodoes exactly this, sometimes
exactly exactly this, because weask ChatGPT about it.
Sometimes we're right,sometimes we're wrong, but
that's not the point.
(08:58):
Referrers are looking forhyper-specific partners to solve
problems.
So when someone says, oh, Ineed a lawyer for this
immigration problem, they'regoing to go well, what kind of
immigration problem?
Is it for a 90-day fiance visa?
Is it for a work visa?
And they're going to find anattorney who specializes in that
type of visa, someone whofocuses on high conflict custody
(09:19):
, but not just general familylaw.
Because we kind of know nowwhat the issue is going to be If
your messaging is still thisbroad and generic yeah, it could
be like this on the front pageof your website, but once you
get deeper, it's got to becomeclear or even if your brand just
hasn't evolved with your realexpertise.
It makes you really easy tooverlook, even by people who
(09:40):
actually like you, and thatdisconnect matters.
You might be the best option,but if your website, your
LinkedIn, your conversationsdon't make it blatantly diamond
crystal clear to the person,people are not going to assume
it, as much as professionalsthink that that will happen and
that people will see the qualityof the work.
That is not the way it works inreal life.
(10:02):
They're going to go with thefirm that looks like the right
fit on paper because as far aswhat's in front of them them
being not an expert in the lawthat's what looks the best.
And here's the kicker.
Referrers are going to do thistoo, and they often won't tell
you when you don't look the best.
It's because they're not tryingto hurt your feelings.
(10:22):
They're just trying to go withwho works the best.
They're trying to make surethat their client also has a
good experience.
And, yeah, they're probablygoing to do it quietly and then
they'll just be gone.
So I know that sounds reallyhopeless.
So what's the takeaway?
The takeaway is that stayingstill is falling behind.
You have to do something If youhaven't refreshed your
(10:42):
positioning, tightened yourniche, worked on your system or
started to show up in yourreferral partner's world a lot,
don't be surprised if your nameisn't the one they remember when
it counts.
So let's say now you'verecognized the problem your
referrals have slowed.
It's not just bad luck.
There's something we could do.
But here's the good news.
Like I said, staying still isfalling behind, and that means
(11:06):
we can fix this.
And the even better news isthat we can make our referral
system stronger than it ever was.
But here's what I need you to do.
I need you to make one bigshift.
You have to stop thinking ofreferrals as favors and you have
to start thinking of them likea marketing channel, because
that's exactly what thesereferrals are.
(11:27):
If someone sent you 10 leads ayear and whether it was a Google
ads campaign or a Facebookcampaign, wherever it came from,
you would track this, you'doptimize it and you'd make sure
it kept performing.
And referrals I want to saythat they deserve the same
treatment.
But that's not true.
They deserve better treatment,because this is a much more
fundamental part of the business.
So let's get into how weactually do this.
(11:50):
Step one is building arelationship nurturing system.
We've talked about nurturingsystems a lot before, with email
systems like HubSpot, and thisdoes not have to be complicated,
but here's the thing it doeshave to be intentional.
So we need to set a cadencereach out to our best partners
every month, every quarter,quarterly is good.
It gives them a little morespace, unless they're sending a
(12:12):
lot of clients.
And this can be as simple as anemail about a five-minute call
or a five-minute call and anemail whatever variation, or a
text or or a DM on Instagram.
It totally depends what yourrelationship is.
We can systemize it.
We can say it's this on thisdate, we put it in our to-do
list and we schedule it every 90days, so we can just send a
(12:34):
quick email.
It says hey, just wanted tocheck in, let you know how a few
things went, see what kind ofclients you're you're seeing
lately.
You don't have to ask foranything, you don't have to try
to offer anything, you just havea conversation.
And why does this matter?
Because it shifts the dynamicfrom the random favor that
happens just when you think ofit to an actual professional
(12:56):
partnership.
And yeah, messaging someonethrough Instagram does not
scream professional partnershipin the conventional sense, but
it is more professional thanjust randomly thinking of
someone, and people take theseprofessional partnerships a lot
more seriously than oh yeah, Ithink I know a guy.
Next, we need to add real-timethank yous.
So when someone sends a lead,even if the case doesn't pan out
(13:18):
, we should still acknowledgethe effort.
We don't want to do this threemonths later, right away quick
call, handwritten note Once we,you know, do the introductions
and whatever, go into a separateemail thread and say thanks for
trusting me with this, thanksfor the referral, blah, blah,
blah.
And it's really good if we, youknow, do that and make this
about them of thanks for fortrusting me, or thanks for the
(13:39):
referral, or thanks for thinkingof me, that kind of thing.
And then, finally, we need toclose the loop.
So once a case resolves orprogresses beyond, you know
whatever the relevant line is,we follow up again, let them
know what happened.
Just wanted to let you know.
We helped get the custodyarrangement finalized last week.
Your client was amazing to workwith.
(14:00):
I really appreciate thereferral.
Once again, this reinforcestrust, makes them more likely to
send another referral and it'sjust nice.
You can put the warm fuzzies inyour tummy, like who doesn't
want that.
So let's go on to step twobecause once we have that
nurturing system, we need tostart segmenting our referral
sources.
Not all of our refers are equaland that's totally fine.
(14:22):
We don't need to treat aone-off contact the same way we
treat our top three sources,like some big company that's
sending me all their excess.
So let's start simple.
Let's divide our list into ourA-list, our B-list and our
C-list.
And here's how we triageA-listers are reliable, they're
high fit, they're consistent,they're sending a lot of
(14:44):
referrals.
Maybe they're not sending a lotof referrals, but they always
come to us with the good clients.
B-listers are occasional orthey show potential to develop
the relationship further, andC-listers are one-offs, low fit
cases.
Maybe it's a nice person, butthe odds of it just working out
with the client are low andmaybe they even check in
(15:04):
beforehand and say, hey, wouldyou take this?
Something like that.
C-listers are, again, not bad,but just less likely to generate
referrals and we want to focusour energy on the A-listers.
We do deeper check-ins,possible collaboration, phone
calls, that kind of stuff ForB-list folks.
We stay visible, we stayhelpful, but it doesn't have to
(15:25):
be as close of a relationshipand C-list.
We can automate a lot of this.
We don't ignore them.
We will absolutely talk to themwhen they want to, but we don't
need to be manually checking inwith these people every week or
every month.
We can just have them on thelist to make sure we do check in
with them and then we move onto step three.
Once we're segmented, we needto start doing a little bit of
(15:46):
light automation.
Once we have that you know list, this doesn't mean we're
blasting everyone with spammynewsletters.
It means we're using tools likeLawmatics, mailchimp,
activecampaign your typicalemail automation stuff to stay
top of mind in ways that feelnatural.
So we can set up a quarterlyemail update that shares a
helpful tip, a brief clientsuccess story, obviously with no
(16:06):
names, maybe a legal change inour niche, something that the
referral source might want toknow about.
The goal isn't to sell here, itis just to remind.
We're still here, we're stillgreat at what we do, we're still
trying to add value for you andyou can still trust us to send
us a referral, even a birthdayemail.
This is actually something thatprobably isn't being done a lot
(16:28):
.
It's really interesting and ifyour CRM can support this, it's
really cool.
But a birthday email like hey,it's been a while.
I saw it was your birthday, youwant to grab a coffee, let me
buy you a birthday cookie, orwhatever people in your
particular area like Let me buyyou a birthday cookie, or
whatever people in yourparticular area like.
This type of reminder can go areally, really long way and it
can be totally automated behindthe scenes.
(16:49):
Get their birthday when youmeet them, put it into your
system, have a reminder come up.
Now step four and this is sortof our last, but I mean referral
sources are never done.
So step four is to replacestrategically, because sometimes
it's it's not about winningsomeone back.
That might not be possible.
Sometimes we outgrow ourreferral sources, we change, or
(17:12):
or they outgrow us and theychange, and that's where
referral replacements come in.
Think about the professionalsthat are adjacent to our best
cases.
If we're in family law, thinkabout the therapists, the
divorce coaches, real estateagents, boat salespeople in
certain areas If you're doingprobate, how about financial
advisors, elder geriatric caremanagers, nursing home people.
(17:34):
These are the people who aretalking to your potential
clients before those clientseven realize that they need you.
So we want to reach out withvalue.
We're not trying to pitch them.
We already know what they canoffer and they probably know
what we want.
So we can offer to write aco-checklist, host a joint
webinar, create a PDF they cangive to their clients with
helpful info and, honestly,you'll be surprised how fast a
(17:58):
little collaboration can lead toa steady stream of new clients
and publishing some kind ofinformation with your contact
info at the bottom.
Because, again, the bottom linereferrals aren't magic.
They are manageable, they'resystemizable and with a little
bit of structure, a littlesegmentation, a little bit of
automation all that kind of goodstuff we've got a recipe here
(18:19):
to turn our old referral slumpinto a steady, predictable and a
scalable pipeline that we cantrack, just like all of our
other marketing efforts.
And now, before we wrap up, wrapup I just wanted to take a
second to mention our premiumpodcast subscription and a small
change that is coming to thatsoon.
We launched paid subscriptionsto the podcast about a year ago
(18:40):
and with that subscription youget access to the first episode
of every month where I dive intojust a little bit deeper on
some issues that we do later inthe month.
Usually we go a little bit lesstime on those and you also get
access to all of our oldepisodes.
So a lot of those episodes arebehind the premium paywall and
as we get into Q3, nothing isactually changing for the paid
(19:00):
subscriptions.
But I just wanted to give youguys a little bit of an update
that in Q3, we will be puttingmore episodes behind the premium
paywall if not most of the oldepisodes from before 2025.
So if you haven't signed up yet, make sure you do that now so
you get full access to everyepisode on every subject that
you need to know about fromLegal Marketing 101.
So back to the referrals.
(19:20):
Look, referrals are fragile.
They are earned and re-earnedconstantly.
This is a daily battle and ifyou are treating your referrals
like people you take to lunchevery now and then, you're just
not doing enough anymore.
You need to have a system.
You need to have a modernversion of a Rolodex, or
literally just a Rolodex.
That would be better than whata lot of attorneys are doing
(19:42):
right now, because they'd haveat least written down somewhere.
So let me give you a little bitof a challenge.
Today you need to reach out tothree lapsed referral sources
with a personal check-in Someonewho hasn't sent you something
in like six months.
They used to send you goodclients, but they haven't done
it in the last six months.
Reach out to them today, make apersonal check-in.
(20:03):
You don't have to tell themthat you want referral sources
from them.
Just reach out and give themsome new information.
Tell them hey, just wanted tolet you know that this happened
and we can help with it.
We're working really hard onthese types of cases and if you
have anybody that needs help,please let us know.
You don't have to be pushy.
You don't have to spend timeselling.
You can just talk and if theyask why you're calling, you can
(20:28):
make something up.
Or you can just say thatthey're a great referral source
and you really liked workingwith them and you just wanted to
check in with them with noparticular ulterior motive.
There are so many options forrebuilding these systems and for
integrating them into yourmarketing like a real marketing
channel, and I really hopeyou'll be able to achieve that.
If you have questions, asalways, I'm here to help, and
that's it for Legal Marketing101.
(20:49):
Check out RosenAdvertisingcomfor more Thanks.
Why aren't your referral sources sending you
cases anymore?
Welcome to Legal Marketing 101.
I'm Toby Rosen.
Five years ago you might havehad the best referral network on
the planet, but maybe todayyou're not really getting the
referrals you used to.
Where did they all go?
It can't all just be because ofCOVID, can it?
(00:26):
This episode we're talking aboutattorneys that rely on
referrals and we're talkingabout what the downsides on that
are, because I love referralsand obviously networking and
getting into referrals issomething that I'm really a big
fan of.
It's not something I can helpwith that often, but it's
something I think is terrific.
The firms I work with that havereally strong referral networks
(00:47):
are the firms where we get toactually have a lot of fun.
We get to try differentmarketing strategies, we get to
do different things, test things, turn things on and off, and
it's all because we have thatstrong referral network base.
So today we're talking aboutwhy these referrals might have
been drying up over the lastcouple of years, what really
causes it whether it's in thisparticular instance or just your
(01:09):
referral source drying up ingeneral and we're talking about
a couple of strategies toactually fix that problem.
So let's start by busting amyth that quietly costs law
firms a lot of serious revenue,and that's the idea that
referral sources are loyal.
Because most of the timethey're not, at least not in the
way we like to think, becausereferrals, they don't come from
(01:32):
loyalty, they come fromrelevance, and that's why we're
talking about this.
And when you're no longerrelevant to someone's client
base, you're going to stopgetting their referrals.
It is just that simple.
It is harsh, but yeah, it'strue.
And here's the part that noone's talking about.
Most of the time you don't evenknow that this is happening.
Referral attrition is silent.
(01:54):
You don't get an alert when aCPA decides to send their next
client to a different estateplanning attorney.
Nobody emails you to say hey,just a heads up, I'm moving on.
You just, you don't get thecase, that's all.
And you don't know that youdidn't get the case because
we're not going to get into thatlogic.
And then the next one, and thenthe next one, and by the time
(02:15):
you notice the pattern, it'salready a trend and it's over.
So why do these referral sourcesmove on?
Sometimes it's just aperception issue.
They think you're busy.
They think maybe you haven'tfollowed up.
They heard you're in trial allmonth.
I mean, there's a millionthings that silence can come off
as not taking new clients, evenif that's not true at all, and
(02:36):
other times you're just not topof mind anymore.
Someone else has been morevisible.
They're posting on LinkedIn,they're popping up at bar events
, maybe even dropping a note tosay thanks for a past case, and
all the time that visibility,visibility wins.
And then there's the alignment.
This one is really big.
Let's say, you used to do a lotof high net worth divorce work,
(02:58):
but lately you've shifted moretowards custody support cases,
that kind of thing.
If your referral partners don'tnecessarily understand that
shift, they might assume you'reno longer the best fit for the
kind of clients that they sent.
Or, even worse, they couldassume that you're still doing
what you were doing three yearsago or something that you never
did before, whatever it is, andthat might no longer serve their
(03:18):
needs.
But the good news is that thisisn't about begging for business
or just networking harder.
It's about understanding thereal dynamics behind referrals
and adjusting your approachaccordingly.
Because once you let go of thiswhole myth of loyalty that you
bought this guy lunch once andhe's always going to send you
his cases.
Then you can start buildingsystems around relevance, and
(03:39):
that's where things are going tostart to click, even if the guy
you bought lunch for hates you.
That's where things are goingto start to click, even if the
guy you bought lunch for hatesyou.
Let's be honest If referralshave slowed down, it's probably
not just because your contactsgot busy or moved away or
changed their phone numbers.
In a lot of cases, the breakdownstarts on your end.
You are the one who dropped theball and before you get
defensive, know that thishappens to everyone.
(04:03):
You get caught up in trial prep.
You get caught in a big hiringpush, marketing campaigns and,
all of a sudden, that estateplanning attorney who used to
send you the cases every quarter, the the mental health
professional who sent youdivorce cases radio silence.
It's because you stoppednurturing the relationship, and
that's normal.
That's normal in businessrelationships, that's normal in
(04:23):
human relationships.
That's normal in humanrelationships.
When was the last time you senta genuine thank you after a
referral?
Not an automated email, a realfollow-up, something that says
hey, I appreciate you trustingme with this client?
Almost none of us are doingthis as often as we should be
doing it.
(04:43):
What about an update a fewweeks later just to let them
know how things are going.
If you're not closing theseloops, you're leaving your
referrers in the dark and thaterodes trust, whether you're
paying attention to it or not,or whether that person is
thinking about it or not.
Doing it is what helps buildthe trust Without telling them.
They don't know if you tookcare of the client, if the
matter is still pending or ifthe person just ghosted you
(05:04):
completely and nothing everhappened.
And when they feel unsure,they're going to stop referring.
Simple as that.
And I've seen it on the flipside Attorneys have referred
other attorneys to me who neverfollowed up, who never reached
out, and they never checked inwhether or not that person
checked in with me.
It's basically never happened.
Another common issue is that wenever built a system.
(05:26):
This is really hard to do forreferrals Well, not really, but
it's really hard to wrap yourbrain around sometimes.
But you can build a real system.
You might assume that justbecause someone referred you one
solid case, they're going to doit forever.
But that is not a relationship.
That's just wishful thinking orsomebody you met once.
Strong referral networks requireactual structure.
(05:47):
They require regular check-ins,a process notes.
Otherwise, you're just hopingthat lightning strikes twice,
and I'm sure you all have aweird uncle that had lightning
strike.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
But let's quickly talk about aless obvious culprit that can
seriously affect your referralsources.
(06:08):
This is your intake process or,really worse, your website.
We need to talk about the wholefunnel and, yeah, your site or
your GMB.
It might have been fine fiveyears ago, but does it still
really reflect the level ofservice that your referrers
expect?
Put yourself in their shoes, andI mean this literally.
Sometimes, if they send aclient your way and that person
(06:29):
hits a broken contact form, theywait five days for a call back
or they get passed around bysome confused receptionist.
That is embarrassing.
It's not just embarrassing foryou, it's embarrassing for the
person who made that referralbecause their advice was not
good.
A poor client experiencereflects directly on the person
who made the introduction.
On top of the whole reflectionon you thing, you're now
(06:51):
embarrassing other peopleoutside your law firm.
If your systems make them lookbad, they are not, I'm not going
to say they're going to quietlystop putting their reputation
on the line.
They may do it loudly Sometimesthey may do it very loudly.
So, yes, referrals are aboutrelationships, but really
they're about infrastructure.
We can take the best lawyer intown, but if our followup is
(07:14):
non-existent, if he's just, youknow, over there in court every
day doing lawyer things, if ourintake's a mess, if our site
feels like it's stuck in 2012,people will move on.
Referral sources will move on,even the ones who say they used
to swear by you.
Now let's talk a little bitabout what happens outside your
firm, because even if you didn'tchange a thing, the market
(07:36):
around you definitely did.
Your competitors are notwaiting.
They're not waiting around forthese referrals to fall into
their laps.
They're not just sitting there.
They are actively courting thevery same people who used to
send you cases, and they'redoing it in ways that feel
personal and value-driven andthey might be better than your
(07:56):
system.
They're constantly showing upon LinkedIn.
They're posting smart insights,they're celebrating wins,
they're commenting on posts.
They're sending out targetedmailers or newsletters, stuff
that's actually useful data,information, sales ideas.
Some are even co-hostingwebinars or creating content
with their referral sources,building something together
(08:16):
rather than just buildingsomething that brings each other
more business.
They're building something thatbrings each other more business
together and that kind ofcollaboration builds trust fast
and it makes you look invisibleby comparison, because not only
is this guy getting thereferrals, now he's got this
public project with this companyand, oh, it's just so good from
(08:38):
a branding perspective.
That's something we really haveto watch out for.
Because here's another big shiftspecialization.
The days of I know a goodgeneral litigator they're kind
of behind us.
We now say I need someone whodoes exactly this, sometimes
exactly exactly this, because weask ChatGPT about it.
Sometimes we're right,sometimes we're wrong, but
that's not the point.
(08:58):
Referrers are looking forhyper-specific partners to solve
problems.
So when someone says, oh, Ineed a lawyer for this
immigration problem, they'regoing to go well, what kind of
immigration problem?
Is it for a 90-day fiance visa?
Is it for a work visa?
And they're going to find anattorney who specializes in that
type of visa, someone whofocuses on high conflict custody
(09:19):
, but not just general familylaw.
Because we kind of know nowwhat the issue is going to be If
your messaging is still thisbroad and generic yeah, it could
be like this on the front pageof your website, but once you
get deeper, it's got to becomeclear or even if your brand just
hasn't evolved with your realexpertise.
It makes you really easy tooverlook, even by people who
(09:40):
actually like you, and thatdisconnect matters.
You might be the best option,but if your website, your
LinkedIn, your conversationsdon't make it blatantly diamond
crystal clear to the person,people are not going to assume
it, as much as professionalsthink that that will happen and
that people will see the qualityof the work.
That is not the way it works inreal life.
(10:02):
They're going to go with thefirm that looks like the right
fit on paper because as far aswhat's in front of them them
being not an expert in the lawthat's what looks the best.
And here's the kicker.
Referrers are going to do thistoo, and they often won't tell
you when you don't look the best.
It's because they're not tryingto hurt your feelings.
(10:22):
They're just trying to go withwho works the best.
They're trying to make surethat their client also has a
good experience.
And, yeah, they're probablygoing to do it quietly and then
they'll just be gone.
So I know that sounds reallyhopeless.
So what's the takeaway?
The takeaway is that stayingstill is falling behind.
You have to do something If youhaven't refreshed your
(10:42):
positioning, tightened yourniche, worked on your system or
started to show up in yourreferral partner's world a lot,
don't be surprised if your nameisn't the one they remember when
it counts.
So let's say now you'verecognized the problem your
referrals have slowed.
It's not just bad luck.
There's something we could do.
But here's the good news.
Like I said, staying still isfalling behind, and that means
(11:06):
we can fix this.
And the even better news isthat we can make our referral
system stronger than it ever was.
But here's what I need you to do.
I need you to make one bigshift.
You have to stop thinking ofreferrals as favors and you have
to start thinking of them likea marketing channel, because
that's exactly what thesereferrals are.
(11:27):
If someone sent you 10 leads ayear and whether it was a Google
ads campaign or a Facebookcampaign, wherever it came from,
you would track this, you'doptimize it and you'd make sure
it kept performing.
And referrals I want to saythat they deserve the same
treatment.
But that's not true.
They deserve better treatment,because this is a much more
fundamental part of the business.
So let's get into how weactually do this.
(11:50):
Step one is building arelationship nurturing system.
We've talked about nurturingsystems a lot before, with email
systems like HubSpot, and thisdoes not have to be complicated,
but here's the thing it doeshave to be intentional.
So we need to set a cadencereach out to our best partners
every month, every quarter,quarterly is good.
It gives them a little morespace, unless they're sending a
(12:12):
lot of clients.
And this can be as simple as anemail about a five-minute call
or a five-minute call and anemail whatever variation, or a
text or or a DM on Instagram.
It totally depends what yourrelationship is.
We can systemize it.
We can say it's this on thisdate, we put it in our to-do
list and we schedule it every 90days, so we can just send a
(12:34):
quick email.
It says hey, just wanted tocheck in, let you know how a few
things went, see what kind ofclients you're you're seeing
lately.
You don't have to ask foranything, you don't have to try
to offer anything, you just havea conversation.
And why does this matter?
Because it shifts the dynamicfrom the random favor that
happens just when you think ofit to an actual professional
(12:56):
partnership.
And yeah, messaging someonethrough Instagram does not
scream professional partnershipin the conventional sense, but
it is more professional thanjust randomly thinking of
someone, and people take theseprofessional partnerships a lot
more seriously than oh yeah, Ithink I know a guy.
Next, we need to add real-timethank yous.
So when someone sends a lead,even if the case doesn't pan out
(13:18):
, we should still acknowledgethe effort.
We don't want to do this threemonths later, right away quick
call, handwritten note Once we,you know, do the introductions
and whatever, go into a separateemail thread and say thanks for
trusting me with this, thanksfor the referral, blah, blah,
blah.
And it's really good if we, youknow, do that and make this
about them of thanks for fortrusting me, or thanks for the
(13:39):
referral, or thanks for thinkingof me, that kind of thing.
And then, finally, we need toclose the loop.
So once a case resolves orprogresses beyond, you know
whatever the relevant line is,we follow up again, let them
know what happened.
Just wanted to let you know.
We helped get the custodyarrangement finalized last week.
Your client was amazing to workwith.
(14:00):
I really appreciate thereferral.
Once again, this reinforcestrust, makes them more likely to
send another referral and it'sjust nice.
You can put the warm fuzzies inyour tummy, like who doesn't
want that.
So let's go on to step twobecause once we have that
nurturing system, we need tostart segmenting our referral
sources.
Not all of our refers are equaland that's totally fine.
(14:22):
We don't need to treat aone-off contact the same way we
treat our top three sources,like some big company that's
sending me all their excess.
So let's start simple.
Let's divide our list into ourA-list, our B-list and our
C-list.
And here's how we triageA-listers are reliable, they're
high fit, they're consistent,they're sending a lot of
(14:44):
referrals.
Maybe they're not sending a lotof referrals, but they always
come to us with the good clients.
B-listers are occasional orthey show potential to develop
the relationship further, andC-listers are one-offs, low fit
cases.
Maybe it's a nice person, butthe odds of it just working out
with the client are low andmaybe they even check in
(15:04):
beforehand and say, hey, wouldyou take this?
Something like that.
C-listers are, again, not bad,but just less likely to generate
referrals and we want to focusour energy on the A-listers.
We do deeper check-ins,possible collaboration, phone
calls, that kind of stuff ForB-list folks.
We stay visible, we stayhelpful, but it doesn't have to
(15:25):
be as close of a relationshipand C-list.
We can automate a lot of this.
We don't ignore them.
We will absolutely talk to themwhen they want to, but we don't
need to be manually checking inwith these people every week or
every month.
We can just have them on thelist to make sure we do check in
with them and then we move onto step three.
Once we're segmented, we needto start doing a little bit of
(15:46):
light automation.
Once we have that you know list, this doesn't mean we're
blasting everyone with spammynewsletters.
It means we're using tools likeLawmatics, mailchimp,
activecampaign your typicalemail automation stuff to stay
top of mind in ways that feelnatural.
So we can set up a quarterlyemail update that shares a
helpful tip, a brief clientsuccess story, obviously with no
(16:06):
names, maybe a legal change inour niche, something that the
referral source might want toknow about.
The goal isn't to sell here, itis just to remind.
We're still here, we're stillgreat at what we do, we're still
trying to add value for you andyou can still trust us to send
us a referral, even a birthdayemail.
This is actually something thatprobably isn't being done a lot
(16:28):
.
It's really interesting and ifyour CRM can support this, it's
really cool.
But a birthday email like hey,it's been a while.
I saw it was your birthday, youwant to grab a coffee, let me
buy you a birthday cookie, orwhatever people in your
particular area like Let me buyyou a birthday cookie, or
whatever people in yourparticular area like.
This type of reminder can go areally, really long way and it
can be totally automated behindthe scenes.
(16:49):
Get their birthday when youmeet them, put it into your
system, have a reminder come up.
Now step four and this is sortof our last, but I mean referral
sources are never done.
So step four is to replacestrategically, because sometimes
it's it's not about winningsomeone back.
That might not be possible.
Sometimes we outgrow ourreferral sources, we change, or
(17:12):
or they outgrow us and theychange, and that's where
referral replacements come in.
Think about the professionalsthat are adjacent to our best
cases.
If we're in family law, thinkabout the therapists, the
divorce coaches, real estateagents, boat salespeople in
certain areas If you're doingprobate, how about financial
advisors, elder geriatric caremanagers, nursing home people.
(17:34):
These are the people who aretalking to your potential
clients before those clientseven realize that they need you.
So we want to reach out withvalue.
We're not trying to pitch them.
We already know what they canoffer and they probably know
what we want.
So we can offer to write aco-checklist, host a joint
webinar, create a PDF they cangive to their clients with
helpful info and, honestly,you'll be surprised how fast a
(17:58):
little collaboration can lead toa steady stream of new clients
and publishing some kind ofinformation with your contact
info at the bottom.
Because, again, the bottom linereferrals aren't magic.
They are manageable, they'resystemizable and with a little
bit of structure, a littlesegmentation, a little bit of
automation all that kind of goodstuff we've got a recipe here
(18:19):
to turn our old referral slumpinto a steady, predictable and a
scalable pipeline that we cantrack, just like all of our
other marketing efforts.
And now, before we wrap up, wrapup I just wanted to take a
second to mention our premiumpodcast subscription and a small
change that is coming to thatsoon.
We launched paid subscriptionsto the podcast about a year ago
(18:40):
and with that subscription youget access to the first episode
of every month where I dive intojust a little bit deeper on
some issues that we do later inthe month.
Usually we go a little bit lesstime on those and you also get
access to all of our oldepisodes.
So a lot of those episodes arebehind the premium paywall and
as we get into Q3, nothing isactually changing for the paid
(19:00):
subscriptions.
But I just wanted to give youguys a little bit of an update
that in Q3, we will be puttingmore episodes behind the premium
paywall if not most of the oldepisodes from before 2025.
So if you haven't signed up yet, make sure you do that now so
you get full access to everyepisode on every subject that
you need to know about fromLegal Marketing 101.
So back to the referrals.
(19:20):
Look, referrals are fragile.
They are earned and re-earnedconstantly.
This is a daily battle and ifyou are treating your referrals
like people you take to lunchevery now and then, you're just
not doing enough anymore.
You need to have a system.
You need to have a modernversion of a Rolodex, or
literally just a Rolodex.
That would be better than whata lot of attorneys are doing
(19:42):
right now, because they'd haveat least written down somewhere.
So let me give you a little bitof a challenge.
Today you need to reach out tothree lapsed referral sources
with a personal check-in Someonewho hasn't sent you something
in like six months.
They used to send you goodclients, but they haven't done
it in the last six months.
Reach out to them today, make apersonal check-in.
(20:03):
You don't have to tell themthat you want referral sources
from them.
Just reach out and give themsome new information.
Tell them hey, just wanted tolet you know that this happened
and we can help with it.
We're working really hard onthese types of cases and if you
have anybody that needs help,please let us know.
You don't have to be pushy.
You don't have to spend timeselling.
You can just talk and if theyask why you're calling, you can
(20:28):
make something up.
Or you can just say thatthey're a great referral source
and you really liked workingwith them and you just wanted to
check in with them with noparticular ulterior motive.
There are so many options forrebuilding these systems and for
integrating them into yourmarketing like a real marketing
channel, and I really hopeyou'll be able to achieve that.
If you have questions, asalways, I'm here to help, and
that's it for Legal Marketing101.
(20:49):
Check out RosenAdvertisingcomfor more Thanks.
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