February 14, 2025 • 30 mins
This episode centers on understanding and managing big emotions in young children while highlighting the dynamics between parents and their kids. We discuss the importance of emotional regulation for both parents and children, the distinctions between tantrums and meltdowns, and effective strategies for fostering emotional resilience.
Youtube episode now available: https://youtu.be/vEauFIJe9mE?si=3Rkn9QX5-o8FZdwl
• Understanding big emotions in young children
• Distinctions between tantrums and meltdowns
• The impact of parental emotional regulation on children
• Recognizing sensory needs and unique wiring
• Importance of intentional connection in parenting
• Benefits of early intervention and active parental involvement
• The value of authoritative vs. gentle parenting styles
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cindy (00:00):
Hey, it's time to interrupt your daily flow and
just listen to another episodeof the podcast.
Today we're back with JillUrbane, aka the Mentor Mom.
She's a parent educator andsocial worker who has been
working with families in theirhomes for nearly 30 years.
She is passionate aboutsupporting families by providing
(00:21):
them with the foundationalknowledge, understanding and
skills needed to help parentsfoster healthy growth,
development and learning intheir child while finding their
parenting mojo.
Now, this episode is definitelyone that's going to hit close
to home for me, as you know,with my baby boy, who's a
(00:41):
toddler now.
But I'm so excited to welcomeJill to the podcast and hear
what she has to say to us momsaround how to regulate big
emotions.
Now, jill, I'm going to hand itover to you and have you
explain what you mean by bigemotions.
Jill (01:02):
Well, I think that when we think big emotions in young
children, what I most often hearfrom parents is we're talking
about meltdowns, we're talkingabout tantrums, which are really
, in my mind, two separatethings.
And then the subsequentbehaviors that we see in this
age group, which would be thephysical aggression, like
(01:23):
hitting and biting and kicking.
And then in the preschoolers wecan certainly still see all
that kind of physical stuff, butthen we get a lot more of the
screaming and the yelling andthe kind of obstinate kind of
behaviors from the preschoolerswhere they're just kind of
asserting themselves and sayingno in different ways.
So that's kind of what I thinkof when I hear big, big, big
(01:44):
emotions.
But I also, when I'm talkingbig emotions, include our
emotions as parents in that,because we oftentimes are having
big emotions when our littleones are having big emotions,
and that just makes things worse, because we need for our kiddos
(02:04):
, they need our calm in orderfor them to find their calm.
So helping parents navigate theups and downs of those big
emotions is not just about thechild's but it's also about the
parents.
Cindy (02:17):
Thank you for pointing that out because I think, as
some of our listeners know butto new listeners, I have a
three-year-old and he iscurrently going through that
time where we're learningboundaries and we're kind of
playing into you know hisinterests and things like that.
But it is getting difficultwhen there is, you know, a wall
(02:42):
where he's feeling reallyoverwhelmed or frustrated.
And you know, the last time Iwas yelled and screamed at was,
you know, when I was a child,and so it's very odd to kind of
know how to respond.
Um, it almost feels likeRatatouille sometime.
(03:03):
I don't know if you saw themovie, oh yeah, but it just
feels like it immediately throwsme back into that moment of
like when I was in trouble andit's just it feels a little
traumatic to deal with.
Do you have any like take onthat, or have you heard that
notion before?
Jill (03:22):
Absolutely, and I love that you even brought this up
because this is why it's soimportant for us as the next
generation.
Right, I mean our moms and dadsand their moms and dads.
They all did the best theycould with what they had and
what they knew at the time.
Were any of them perfect?
No, was I a perfect mom?
No, did I try to do better thanprevious generations?
(03:45):
Yes, and so that's really apart of why I do what I do is
I'm hoping to help everygeneration get better and better
.
But when we grow up with yelling, or if we grow up with not
wanting to be seen or heard byour parents, you know the whole.
Children should be seen but notheard thing.
Even though that doesn't soundlike it would be traumatic, it
(04:07):
is for a young child, becausewhat we all want as human beings
, if we want our kids to grow upand have strong social
emotional skills, my goal is tohelp parents raise kids that
will never need therapy ormedication.
That's my goal, right, and thathelped the way that we get
there is we feel seen, we feelsafe, we feel heard and we feel
(04:30):
loved, and if we're being yelledat, we might not be feeling
some of those things.
If we're getting ignored andtold to stop crying, we're not
going to be feeling all of thosethings.
So that's why it's so criticalin those really early years for
us as parents to try to figureout our past and how it shows up
(04:50):
as parents, and then it's aconstant process of having to
work on that.
I always tell parents thathaving children is the most
expensive and most difficult andmost rewarding self-improvement
class you will ever take.
Cindy (05:06):
Such a good way of describing it.
Emphasis on the expense, yeah.
And then you know, right beforewe kind of move on to some
strategies here, I think itfeels like a trend to me.
I don't know the data behind it, but with children who are
(05:28):
neurodivergent, or maybe we justhave more awareness in this
generation of when these bigemotions are shifting over into
an abnormal, like what shouldparents really see as a red flag
(05:49):
, as opposed to the you know,the meltdowns and the tantrums
that you're talking about.
Jill (05:56):
Well, you know, and that's a really that's a great
question, but also a verydifficult one in the sense that
there are just so many differentfactors that can be involved.
You know, there's not one clearcut kind of way that kids react
.
They all react in differentways, based on different things.
I will say that behavior isalways communication.
(06:16):
It is always some sort ofcommunication and I think what I
have learned in my many yearsof working with young children,
young children with specialneeds and their parents, is to
use a framework.
When we're looking at thatRight, Like, sometimes we look
through the lens differentlenses when we see our kids
(06:36):
behavior and we end up takingthings personally, you know,
assuming like there's somethingreally wrong.
But if we look through the lensof a framework and the
framework I like to use isnumber one we need to understand
development, like understandwhat milestones and development
and how that impacts our kids,how their brains work, because
that drives a lot of these bigbehaviors.
(06:58):
Some of the social emotionalstages that young kids go
through at this age drive a lotof these behaviors.
They're not.
They're testing us, yes, butthey're not testing us because
they want to push our buttons.
They're testing us becausethey're trying to develop neural
pathways in their brains andthey have to test us in order to
close these loops.
So when you understand thedevelopment, when you see a
(07:18):
behavior, then you can be like,okay, well, maybe the response
is because of this.
But then the second part ofthat framework is not just to
understand general developmentbut then to really understand
our child's unique wiring.
Right, and our child's uniquewiring is made up of their
temperament, right?
Like some kids are very rigidand need very strict routines
(07:41):
and get thrown off by that,other kids are really easygoing
about things but get reallyoverwhelmed by other things.
So we have to understand theirtemperament.
We also have to understand, like, their sensory preferences,
especially with this age group.
You know, they may be a sensoryseeker, they may be a sensory
avoider.
I know a lot of times whenwe're talking about sensory
(08:02):
things, parents really thinkabout the movement piece.
But we also have to understandthat with all of our different
sensory systems, we all havedifferent things that we can
tolerate at different levels.
We are all very individual.
In that way, there are going tobe some kids where it can be a
noisy room and it doesn't botherthem at all and there are going
to be other kids where they'rein a noisy room and it's going
(08:22):
to be so overwhelming to themthat it's like having somebody
beating a drum next to theirhead.
Well, their behavior is goingto show and going to communicate
like this is too much for me.
For some kids it might bevisual.
For some kids it could be smellright, or it could be a
combination of all of it.
So we have to understand theirunique wiring when it comes to
(08:42):
their sensory preferences aswell as their communication
preferences.
We all have differentcommunication preferences.
Some of us like to just kind ofwatch and we'll speak when we
feel like speaking, and otherkids are like blah, they're out
there right away.
But when we put all of thistogether to truly understand our
child's experience of the worldon top of the development piece
(09:04):
, then it's a lot easier to lookat what's going on in that
moment through the right lenses,which then makes it easier for
us to figure out the right wayto support them.
I should add that in thatunderstanding our unique our
child's unique wiring, we alsohave to understand ours right.
So we have to understand ourparenting style and our
communication style, and arethey working for our kids or not
(09:27):
?
Because if we want our kids tochange, we're going to have to
be the change agent.
We have to change what we'redoing or our kids won't change
yeah, it's uh well.
Cindy (09:39):
So it's funny, because the other day I had a little bit
of that realization where I was, um, I was giving my son, um,
it was a, it was a toy, andlet's, we'll use a car exam
because I don't want to get intowhat the toy was.
But, um, let's say, I gave himthe car and I was like room,
(10:00):
room, play.
And you know he would look atme like okay, room, room, and
I'm like why aren't you?
You know he would look at melike okay, room, room, and I'm
like why aren't you, you know,moving the car back and forth.
And then I realized how wouldhe know to like?
Cars are such, I mean even dayto day, for us, as in this
example, car is a car, you know,car moves forward and moves
back and can park and has, youknow, back and can park and has,
(10:28):
you know, make sounds.
But if you've never seen a carbefore, um, or you know whatever
situation, you've never been toa concert, you you don't know
what to expect.
And sometimes you have to takethat extra step to kind of guide
of like, you know model, likehere's, here's how I behave in
this situation, which also thenyou know for those frustrating
(10:49):
times, especially like betweendad and mom.
When we get to a frustratingsituation, I also remember like
baby's watching, baby's watching, baby's watching.
It can be really, really,really really overwhelming.
Jill (11:05):
it can be really overwhelming and there's a
couple of things that youtouched on there, like one thing
, especially when it comes tothe sensory piece for kids, that
we need to understand is that,like as adults, our sensory
systems are fully, you know,we've, we've, we've developed
our sensory system.
I can walk into a home visitand notice that there's a smell
from the kitchen because they'recooking dinner and the fan is
(11:27):
on and the TV is on in thebackground and that there's lots
of stuff on the floor, but mysensory system can notice it and
then go oh, you don't need tofocus on that.
You can focus on theconversation you're having with
this parent.
Our children have not developedthat skill yet.
Everything is coming in at 100%.
So they're slowly, withrepetition and time and practice
(11:48):
and our support, learning howto be able to tune those
different things out.
So when they go into these newplaces, like the first time into
a play group that's got a tonof different kids in there and
there's smells and sounds andall of that stuff, they may have
a meltdown.
But it depends on their sensorypreferences.
(12:09):
And I like what you talked aboutwith the example using the car,
because I don't think parentsreally realize that, that, like,
sometimes kids need to be.
They don't not all kids pick upon what to do with a toy.
Sometimes they need to be shown, we have to model it, and then
they're like oh, you mean, oh, Ido that, or I can make the cow
and the horse talk to each other.
So that just kind of brings medown to our whole role as a
parent is to always be teaching,always be coaching, always be
(12:35):
figuring out when they get stuck.
How can I help them get unstuckin a way that's going to help
them learn?
Cindy (12:38):
So I'll make it a little bit challenging here.
So I'm one of our listeners andI'm a mom and I work 40 hours a
week and maybe some extra hourson other weeks, and so the
limited time that I have with mychild, how can I maximize
supporting my child during thattime?
Jill (13:06):
supporting my child during that time.
So, hey, and I was a workingmom, two kids, so I totally get
how hard that is, and if I couldgo back and change anything, I
would have changed some of mypriorities, right, like, the
best way to help support ourkids is always going to be
through connection, intentional,purposeful connection.
Right Like I remember cominghome from work and the kids are
like mom, mom, mom and I'm likehey, how's it going, how was
(13:27):
your day?
But I wanted to get to thedishes and I wanted to get
dinner started and I wanted tothrow a load in the in the
washer.
Right Inadvertently.
By doing that, though, right, Iwas kind of sending a message
like you're not as important asthis stuff over here.
If I could turn back the handsof time, I would have spent more
of that very limited time thatwe do have from walking in the
door at the end of the daybefore we put them to bed, which
(13:49):
I mean, really, that canhonestly be like three hours in
some cases, sometimes two.
Right, taking that time andreally being intentional,
because all of that other stuffcan wait, it can all be done
after the kids are in bed.
You know, I know we want to beable to sit down at that time
too, but we can do it morequickly after they're in bed,
honestly, and probably moreeasily.
(14:09):
But knowing and sometimes Ithink it's about our mindset,
like shifting our mindset to me,coming home, this is the most
important thing is to give mykids such a big hug and to sit
down and to listen to them andhear what they have to say, or
to take 15 minutes or 20 minutesand get down on the floor and
just play with them to let themfeel seen, let them feel heard
(14:31):
and let them feel important.
When we do that and are moreintentional about that
connection and recognizing whatthat's going to do for them long
term, I mean it just makes sucha big change.
When we front load withconnection we get less of those
behaviors that challenge,because those behaviors are
their communication of.
I need connection with you.
Cindy (14:52):
For me personally, like the weekends.
I know those were like mycleaning days and I ended up
feeling guilty at the end of theday, cause I'm like, well, well
, I was off today, but here hewas watching tv for a little bit
more than I wanted because Ineeded to get, like you know,
the dishes done and exactly whatyou said.
So I'll definitely be takingthat tip for myself.
(15:12):
Um, you know, I I have to admitlike there are times, like you
said, like I do lay down in bedand I'm like scrolling, where I
could have used that timeseparate elsewhere.
Jill (15:26):
Just just know again that mindset shift.
Just know that that time, eventhough we're exhausted and tired
and we just want to sit down,we just want to sit down and
relax because we worked all day.
Know that that is going to doso much for your child's mental
health.
As they grow and they, they'llneed less of you, right?
If you front load 20 to 30minutes with your child down on
(15:48):
the floor and then you saymommy's got to go down and do
some wash, do you want to comewith me?
Right, you want to help me?
If they want to come help you,great, you're getting more,
you're filling their bucketssome more.
Most kids are going to be likeno, that's okay, I'm going to
stay up here and play, okay,well, I'll be back in 10, 15.
Cindy (16:03):
Right, that's great.
It's a great example, and weheard a little bit about how you
support families and children,but more so, who?
Who is the who is looking foryour services?
What should people start to doto even get support in that way?
Jill (16:23):
So as an early childhood interventionist, I've been
working doing that for over 25years for a local early
intervention program run, aschool-based program.
So the early intervention thatI do is with children that have
some sort of developmental delayor they've been identified in
some cases as having qualifyingfor, like special education
(16:44):
under the age of three, and sothese services are focused on,
you know, doing the evaluationof the child and then going in
the home and helping work onwhatever goal areas the parent
may have.
I would say that probably 85%of the kids, maybe 90% of the
children that I've worked withover the years, it's been a
speech or communication delay.
Sometimes it's a motor delay,you know, sometimes it's just
(17:05):
kind of a global delay.
So as an interventionist, myjob is to go in and support the
parent and it's all done througha coaching model.
So I go in, we sit down, theyshare, they share you know
what's going on and then we lookat, come up with some ideas of
some different strategies.
Then I show the parent how toimplement those strategies and
coach them on how to do it withtheir child.
(17:26):
So that's really what earlyintervention is is, and what I
do as well in in my business iscoaching because as a, as a
therapist, I can get kids to doall sorts of things for me that
the parent can't, because Idon't have history right.
I'm'm starting with a cleanslate with a child, so they try
things with me that they mighttry with their parent, and then
(17:48):
the communication between thetwo of us.
They're like, okay, well, Iguess it doesn't work for her,
so I'll try figuring things outwith her in a new way.
As a parent it's far harder,right?
You know your child like.
I always use the example of achild who's not using a lot of
words, how they throw their cupat their parent and that's their
way of saying go fill that up.
And the parent's like, oh, youwant more milk.
And then they go and get itright.
When the parent stops doingthat, the little one's like I
(18:12):
don't think so.
No, that's how I do it andthat's when we start to
sometimes is to teach parentsand coach them through how to
work through those things andbuild new kinds of interactional
patterns that will help movethe child along in their
development.
So I always like to say theintervention happens between our
(18:34):
visits.
I'm just there to teach andcoach.
If the child makes any progressor achieves their goals, it's
solely because of the parent andthe work that they've done.
Which I think is the wonderfulthing about coaching is when
parents are like, oh, I can'tbelieve it, and I'm like no, you
did that.
I just told, I just gave you acouple of tools, you did the
work of implementing them, andthat builds what I call our
parenting self-esteem, likemaybe I can do this.
(18:57):
Okay, I've got this.
And it's so amazing to seeparents bloom in that way, like
I'll come in and I'll be likehow worried about your child's
development Are you?
On a scale of one to 10, 10being, I'm so worried, and one
being I'm not worried at all,and they're all like 10.
And then, after a couple ofperiods of intervention where
they're feeling more relaxed,I'll say where are you at?
And they'll be like, I don'tknow, I might be at like a three
(19:19):
and I'm like well, my work hereis almost done.
Then, right, you're feelinggood about what you're doing.
And I find that, as parents,that's really the key is, when
our kids are little, we don'thave very many tools in our
parenting toolbox because we'venever been a parent before or
the kid that we had before.
This one needed different toolsand we only needed two for them
because they were the easy kid.
(19:39):
Now we got the hard kid.
When we put more tools in ourtoolbox and practice them, our
confidence goes up that we canhandle what the kids are dishing
out in a way that feels good tous and also helps us to see
growth and learning in our kidsyeah, I love it and it's been so
helpful.
Cindy (19:56):
We had us, we put our child through a school program
he's currently in it as well and, um, we had a speech therapist
come and it was very similar.
You know, it was always hardbecause it was like okay, here's
how you do that.
It was almost like from us andit was unexpected because I
(20:16):
thought she was.
I don't know why, but I thoughtshe was going to come and they
were going to like sound wordsout and then he was going to
magically speak and she was likeno, you, here's your duties,
yeah, you're doing it, and thenyou know, so it's it.
But it's it wasn't.
You know, I took my undergradis in psychology and it still
(20:40):
wasn't intuitive.
So now it's.
You know, if you're a parentand you didn't get that hands-on
training, you wouldn't know.
So I think it's really great tohave the option to look into
services like that and I have.
Jill (20:55):
I have to ask you so at the end of that, because you
said he's three, right, yeah, soprobably transitioned into more
of a classroom type of thing.
So at the end of that work withthe person in the home or in
the early intervention location,at the end of it, how are you
feeling?
Cindy (21:12):
confidence, wise Less afraid of him being on his own.
Um, one of the biggest thingsthat me and his dad did was have
dad be at home.
Um, so we didn't put him in youknow daycare or anything just
because we were overbearing.
But as he started to developthe language, um, delay and some
(21:36):
of these other other you knowthings that he has that he's
very particular about, it mademe really nervous.
It made me really, you know, Istill feel nervous about him
being in another space.
But after having those sessionsand you know her saying like you
need to let him explore, youneed to let him know that
there's options, because if hedoesn't know that he has to like
(21:59):
, if mommy gives everything,because mommy knows best, he
doesn't learn how to makedecisions right and so it makes
it difficult when there's a.
The example she said was whenthere's a bad decision and a
good decision in the playground.
He's not going to have thatalready like instinctual, not
that like practice, withthinking about oh, there's an
(22:22):
option.
He's just going to go with whatfeels like.
What's the first feeling.
Often that is an aggressivefeeling or like it's my toy or
things like that.
So I did feel more confidentwith him going into the school
program and it was.
I almost cried that day.
We were in the they do thatevaluation at school and they
(22:45):
were like he is so sweet and hehad.
You know, he was saying hisABCs and all these things that
you know.
It was empowering for me as amom.
There's still a lot of work todo, you know.
That was like we got to stepone and now we're at step two
out of a thousand, but we'removing.
(23:07):
So you know, that's really howI felt.
Jill (23:11):
Oh, that's great to hear.
Yeah, it's that when you startto feel like, okay, I've got
some tools right, Like I've gotsome things that I know I can do
when these things happen it, itreally does make a big shift in
how we're feeling about ourparenting.
Cindy (23:25):
Yeah, and then I think, especially with the um, the
social media aspect of thiscause, it's that's an entire
different conversation.
But you know, I get on TikTokand it's like here's how you,
gentle parent, this is not howyou, gentle parent, this is
what's affected.
So it's like so confusing ofyou know what is the socially
(23:47):
accepted way to guide your kids,let alone discipline or, like
you know, have boundaries.
Maybe discipline is the wrongword.
Now I don't know.
Like you know, have boundaries.
Maybe discipline is the wrongword.
Jill (23:58):
Now I don't know anymore, but you know it's just, it's a
lot, there's so much out thereand I'm going to tell you that,
as a social worker that I am, Ihate the term gentle parenting
only because I and I know peopleare like, hey, wait a minute,
no, no, no, no, wait, hear meout.
And I know people are like, hey, wait a minute, no, no, no, no,
wait, hear me out.
(24:20):
I hate the term gentleparenting just because I think
it's so confusing for people andthat a lot of times it gets
mixed up with being permissiveand really I know that what
they're meaning by gentleparenting is to be what we know
from the research, from decadesof research, be what we know
from the research, from decadesof research.
(24:40):
It comes down to a parentingstyle and that is the
authoritative parenting style or, as I like, love and Logic.
They call it the consultant.
Right, when you're consultantparenting, you have boundaries
with your children, but theboundaries that you have, they
can be firm, but they're loving.
They're also flexible andcommunication is a priority for
(25:03):
those parents.
But they also know when tocommunicate, especially with
young kids, because we'recommunicating too much when
they're up here with theiremotions and we shouldn't but
also being very, very flexibleand focusing on that
relationship and using a lot ofnatural consequences, as opposed
to the permissive parent or thehelicopter parent, right the
drill sergeant or the drillsergeant parent.
(25:24):
Those two parenting styles weknow from the research have not
got great outcomes for kids downthe road, because they both
inherently are sending a messageto kids that you can't think on
your own.
Consultant parent is going toallow their child to make some
mistakes while the price tag issmall, knowing that they're
going to learn more that way,and then be there to help them
(25:48):
figure out how to maybe do thatnext time in a way where they
don't have that outcome.
Cindy (25:54):
Yeah, the explanation makes it so, so much better than
than you know.
I think it's, all in all, inthe PR of things too.
Um, I, it's um.
Sometimes it's odd when olderfamily members or you know other
people in in my community whogrew up maybe in a different
(26:18):
country, completely different,like the way my grandmother grew
up you know it was veryauthoritarian yes, you, you know
it was that like, oh, you'recrying, I'll give you a reason
to cry about it, it just didn'tmake sense.
And then they see you askingyour child like what you know,
how can I help you?
It's very, very contrasted.
(26:42):
So I do really appreciate howyou describe that.
For us Now, I think the lastthing I want to ask you and you
might have you may have saidthis already and if you want to
just re restate it, that's fine,but we want to do a walk away
(27:03):
point or a final gem.
If somebody's listening to thispodcast, what is something that
you know they should reallyjust take away, like if it's
just one one liner type of thingof you know, what do we, what
do you want parents to knowabout, um, their children or the
, or anything?
Jill (27:24):
and from this conversation , I think probably, um, the
biggest thing for me is that,well, it's two things.
One is that, uh, development isone of your greatest tools to
have in your parenting toolkitto understand development.
And the second one would be toparticular to this younger age
group, to understand that theiremotional regulation is going to
(27:45):
be dependent on yours, and it'sa process that you are involved
in.
You have to teach them how toemotionally regulate.
They don't just figure it outon their own.
It can take up to the age offive to seven, depending on the
child, for them to truly get tothe point where they can learn
how to emotionally regulate.
Cindy (28:03):
I love that.
And moms out there, it's notyou, it's them.
No, this has been great.
Thank you so, um, for theconversation and all of the
great information.
Um, and then separately, I'llask you what is the difference
(28:25):
between the tantrum and ameltdown?
Jill (28:28):
because now that just came back to me, I'm wondering so um
in in my book, having workedwith so many little ones and
seeing tantrums and meltdowns sooften.
To me a tantrum is usually aresult of a limit, like you
can't touch the TV, or can Ihave a cookie and know we're
going to eat dinner, right?
(28:48):
So those are the big emotionsthat they have as a result of
usually a limit or some sort ofconsequence where they didn't
get something they wanted, whichis totally normal for this age
group to have.
And meltdowns are normal too.
But I see meltdowns as more oflike just an overload, and that
overload could come or start asa tantrum, right, but then it
(29:12):
turns into a meltdown.
This is where the emotions getsuper big.
The reactions are like holy cow.
Why are we screaming this muchover the fact that I gave you
the blue cup instead of thegreen cup?
Well, it could be.
I'm hungry, I'm not feelinggood, the TV is on and I didn't
get enough movement today, sothey're just on sensory overload
(29:32):
.
When they go into that meltdown, the response to both, you know
we need to still focus onhelping them to calm first.
I always like the strategy calm, connect, correct.
But that's how I see them.
Differently, the meltdown maystart as a tantrum and turn into
a meltdown, but sometimes it'sjust a tantrum where I didn't
get what I want.
I get a little bit upset andthen I just kind of move on and
(29:53):
find something else to do.
Cindy (29:55):
Thank you so much for explaining that and for being
part of this conversation today.
I'm going to include theinformation for your website or
any other resources, down in thedescription box.
I think it's the notes forthose listening on their
preferred podcast host.
If not, on YouTube, you'll seethe description box.
(30:16):
Thank you so much.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Hey, it's time to interrupt your daily flow and
just listen to another episodeof the podcast.
Today we're back with JillUrbane, aka the Mentor Mom.
She's a parent educator andsocial worker who has been
working with families in theirhomes for nearly 30 years.
She is passionate aboutsupporting families by providing
(00:21):
them with the foundationalknowledge, understanding and
skills needed to help parentsfoster healthy growth,
development and learning intheir child while finding their
parenting mojo.
Now, this episode is definitelyone that's going to hit close
to home for me, as you know,with my baby boy, who's a
(00:41):
toddler now.
But I'm so excited to welcomeJill to the podcast and hear
what she has to say to us momsaround how to regulate big
emotions.
Now, jill, I'm going to hand itover to you and have you
explain what you mean by bigemotions.
Jill (01:02):
Well, I think that when we think big emotions in young
children, what I most often hearfrom parents is we're talking
about meltdowns, we're talkingabout tantrums, which are really
, in my mind, two separatethings.
And then the subsequentbehaviors that we see in this
age group, which would be thephysical aggression, like
(01:23):
hitting and biting and kicking.
And then in the preschoolers wecan certainly still see all
that kind of physical stuff, butthen we get a lot more of the
screaming and the yelling andthe kind of obstinate kind of
behaviors from the preschoolerswhere they're just kind of
asserting themselves and sayingno in different ways.
So that's kind of what I thinkof when I hear big, big, big
(01:44):
emotions.
But I also, when I'm talkingbig emotions, include our
emotions as parents in that,because we oftentimes are having
big emotions when our littleones are having big emotions,
and that just makes things worse, because we need for our kiddos
(02:04):
, they need our calm in orderfor them to find their calm.
So helping parents navigate theups and downs of those big
emotions is not just about thechild's but it's also about the
parents.
Cindy (02:17):
Thank you for pointing that out because I think, as
some of our listeners know butto new listeners, I have a
three-year-old and he iscurrently going through that
time where we're learningboundaries and we're kind of
playing into you know hisinterests and things like that.
But it is getting difficultwhen there is, you know, a wall
(02:42):
where he's feeling reallyoverwhelmed or frustrated.
And you know, the last time Iwas yelled and screamed at was,
you know, when I was a child,and so it's very odd to kind of
know how to respond.
Um, it almost feels likeRatatouille sometime.
(03:03):
I don't know if you saw themovie, oh yeah, but it just
feels like it immediately throwsme back into that moment of
like when I was in trouble andit's just it feels a little
traumatic to deal with.
Do you have any like take onthat, or have you heard that
notion before?
Jill (03:22):
Absolutely, and I love that you even brought this up
because this is why it's soimportant for us as the next
generation.
Right, I mean our moms and dadsand their moms and dads.
They all did the best theycould with what they had and
what they knew at the time.
Were any of them perfect?
No, was I a perfect mom?
No, did I try to do better thanprevious generations?
(03:45):
Yes, and so that's really apart of why I do what I do is
I'm hoping to help everygeneration get better and better
.
But when we grow up with yelling, or if we grow up with not
wanting to be seen or heard byour parents, you know the whole.
Children should be seen but notheard thing.
Even though that doesn't soundlike it would be traumatic, it
(04:07):
is for a young child, becausewhat we all want as human beings
, if we want our kids to grow upand have strong social
emotional skills, my goal is tohelp parents raise kids that
will never need therapy ormedication.
That's my goal, right, and thathelped the way that we get
there is we feel seen, we feelsafe, we feel heard and we feel
(04:30):
loved, and if we're being yelledat, we might not be feeling
some of those things.
If we're getting ignored andtold to stop crying, we're not
going to be feeling all of thosethings.
So that's why it's so criticalin those really early years for
us as parents to try to figureout our past and how it shows up
(04:50):
as parents, and then it's aconstant process of having to
work on that.
I always tell parents thathaving children is the most
expensive and most difficult andmost rewarding self-improvement
class you will ever take.
Cindy (05:06):
Such a good way of describing it.
Emphasis on the expense, yeah.
And then you know, right beforewe kind of move on to some
strategies here, I think itfeels like a trend to me.
I don't know the data behind it, but with children who are
(05:28):
neurodivergent, or maybe we justhave more awareness in this
generation of when these bigemotions are shifting over into
an abnormal, like what shouldparents really see as a red flag
(05:49):
, as opposed to the you know,the meltdowns and the tantrums
that you're talking about.
Jill (05:56):
Well, you know, and that's a really that's a great
question, but also a verydifficult one in the sense that
there are just so many differentfactors that can be involved.
You know, there's not one clearcut kind of way that kids react
.
They all react in differentways, based on different things.
I will say that behavior isalways communication.
(06:16):
It is always some sort ofcommunication and I think what I
have learned in my many yearsof working with young children,
young children with specialneeds and their parents, is to
use a framework.
When we're looking at thatRight, Like, sometimes we look
through the lens differentlenses when we see our kids
(06:36):
behavior and we end up takingthings personally, you know,
assuming like there's somethingreally wrong.
But if we look through the lensof a framework and the
framework I like to use isnumber one we need to understand
development, like understandwhat milestones and development
and how that impacts our kids,how their brains work, because
that drives a lot of these bigbehaviors.
(06:58):
Some of the social emotionalstages that young kids go
through at this age drive a lotof these behaviors.
They're not.
They're testing us, yes, butthey're not testing us because
they want to push our buttons.
They're testing us becausethey're trying to develop neural
pathways in their brains andthey have to test us in order to
close these loops.
So when you understand thedevelopment, when you see a
(07:18):
behavior, then you can be like,okay, well, maybe the response
is because of this.
But then the second part ofthat framework is not just to
understand general developmentbut then to really understand
our child's unique wiring.
Right, and our child's uniquewiring is made up of their
temperament, right?
Like some kids are very rigidand need very strict routines
(07:41):
and get thrown off by that,other kids are really easygoing
about things but get reallyoverwhelmed by other things.
So we have to understand theirtemperament.
We also have to understand, like, their sensory preferences,
especially with this age group.
You know, they may be a sensoryseeker, they may be a sensory
avoider.
I know a lot of times whenwe're talking about sensory
(08:02):
things, parents really thinkabout the movement piece.
But we also have to understandthat with all of our different
sensory systems, we all havedifferent things that we can
tolerate at different levels.
We are all very individual.
In that way, there are going tobe some kids where it can be a
noisy room and it doesn't botherthem at all and there are going
to be other kids where they'rein a noisy room and it's going
(08:22):
to be so overwhelming to themthat it's like having somebody
beating a drum next to theirhead.
Well, their behavior is goingto show and going to communicate
like this is too much for me.
For some kids it might bevisual.
For some kids it could be smellright, or it could be a
combination of all of it.
So we have to understand theirunique wiring when it comes to
(08:42):
their sensory preferences aswell as their communication
preferences.
We all have differentcommunication preferences.
Some of us like to just kind ofwatch and we'll speak when we
feel like speaking, and otherkids are like blah, they're out
there right away.
But when we put all of thistogether to truly understand our
child's experience of the worldon top of the development piece
(09:04):
, then it's a lot easier to lookat what's going on in that
moment through the right lenses,which then makes it easier for
us to figure out the right wayto support them.
I should add that in thatunderstanding our unique our
child's unique wiring, we alsohave to understand ours right.
So we have to understand ourparenting style and our
communication style, and arethey working for our kids or not
(09:27):
?
Because if we want our kids tochange, we're going to have to
be the change agent.
We have to change what we'redoing or our kids won't change
yeah, it's uh well.
Cindy (09:39):
So it's funny, because the other day I had a little bit
of that realization where I was, um, I was giving my son, um,
it was a, it was a toy, andlet's, we'll use a car exam
because I don't want to get intowhat the toy was.
But, um, let's say, I gave himthe car and I was like room,
(10:00):
room, play.
And you know he would look atme like okay, room, room, and
I'm like why aren't you?
You know he would look at melike okay, room, room, and I'm
like why aren't you, you know,moving the car back and forth.
And then I realized how wouldhe know to like?
Cars are such, I mean even dayto day, for us, as in this
example, car is a car, you know,car moves forward and moves
back and can park and has, youknow, back and can park and has,
(10:28):
you know, make sounds.
But if you've never seen a carbefore, um, or you know whatever
situation, you've never been toa concert, you you don't know
what to expect.
And sometimes you have to takethat extra step to kind of guide
of like, you know model, likehere's, here's how I behave in
this situation, which also thenyou know for those frustrating
(10:49):
times, especially like betweendad and mom.
When we get to a frustratingsituation, I also remember like
baby's watching, baby's watching, baby's watching.
It can be really, really,really really overwhelming.
Jill (11:05):
it can be really overwhelming and there's a
couple of things that youtouched on there, like one thing
, especially when it comes tothe sensory piece for kids, that
we need to understand is that,like as adults, our sensory
systems are fully, you know,we've, we've, we've developed
our sensory system.
I can walk into a home visitand notice that there's a smell
from the kitchen because they'recooking dinner and the fan is
(11:27):
on and the TV is on in thebackground and that there's lots
of stuff on the floor, but mysensory system can notice it and
then go oh, you don't need tofocus on that.
You can focus on theconversation you're having with
this parent.
Our children have not developedthat skill yet.
Everything is coming in at 100%.
So they're slowly, withrepetition and time and practice
(11:48):
and our support, learning howto be able to tune those
different things out.
So when they go into these newplaces, like the first time into
a play group that's got a tonof different kids in there and
there's smells and sounds andall of that stuff, they may have
a meltdown.
But it depends on their sensorypreferences.
(12:09):
And I like what you talked aboutwith the example using the car,
because I don't think parentsreally realize that, that, like,
sometimes kids need to be.
They don't not all kids pick upon what to do with a toy.
Sometimes they need to be shown, we have to model it, and then
they're like oh, you mean, oh, Ido that, or I can make the cow
and the horse talk to each other.
So that just kind of brings medown to our whole role as a
parent is to always be teaching,always be coaching, always be
(12:35):
figuring out when they get stuck.
How can I help them get unstuckin a way that's going to help
them learn?
Cindy (12:38):
So I'll make it a little bit challenging here.
So I'm one of our listeners andI'm a mom and I work 40 hours a
week and maybe some extra hourson other weeks, and so the
limited time that I have with mychild, how can I maximize
supporting my child during thattime?
Jill (13:06):
supporting my child during that time.
So, hey, and I was a workingmom, two kids, so I totally get
how hard that is, and if I couldgo back and change anything, I
would have changed some of mypriorities, right, like, the
best way to help support ourkids is always going to be
through connection, intentional,purposeful connection.
Right Like I remember cominghome from work and the kids are
like mom, mom, mom and I'm likehey, how's it going, how was
(13:27):
your day?
But I wanted to get to thedishes and I wanted to get
dinner started and I wanted tothrow a load in the in the
washer.
Right Inadvertently.
By doing that, though, right, Iwas kind of sending a message
like you're not as important asthis stuff over here.
If I could turn back the handsof time, I would have spent more
of that very limited time thatwe do have from walking in the
door at the end of the daybefore we put them to bed, which
(13:49):
I mean, really, that canhonestly be like three hours in
some cases, sometimes two.
Right, taking that time andreally being intentional,
because all of that other stuffcan wait, it can all be done
after the kids are in bed.
You know, I know we want to beable to sit down at that time
too, but we can do it morequickly after they're in bed,
honestly, and probably moreeasily.
(14:09):
But knowing and sometimes Ithink it's about our mindset,
like shifting our mindset to me,coming home, this is the most
important thing is to give mykids such a big hug and to sit
down and to listen to them andhear what they have to say, or
to take 15 minutes or 20 minutesand get down on the floor and
just play with them to let themfeel seen, let them feel heard
(14:31):
and let them feel important.
When we do that and are moreintentional about that
connection and recognizing whatthat's going to do for them long
term, I mean it just makes sucha big change.
When we front load withconnection we get less of those
behaviors that challenge,because those behaviors are
their communication of.
I need connection with you.
Cindy (14:52):
For me personally, like the weekends.
I know those were like mycleaning days and I ended up
feeling guilty at the end of theday, cause I'm like, well, well
, I was off today, but here hewas watching tv for a little bit
more than I wanted because Ineeded to get, like you know,
the dishes done and exactly whatyou said.
So I'll definitely be takingthat tip for myself.
(15:12):
Um, you know, I I have to admitlike there are times, like you
said, like I do lay down in bedand I'm like scrolling, where I
could have used that timeseparate elsewhere.
Jill (15:26):
Just just know again that mindset shift.
Just know that that time, eventhough we're exhausted and tired
and we just want to sit down,we just want to sit down and
relax because we worked all day.
Know that that is going to doso much for your child's mental
health.
As they grow and they, they'llneed less of you, right?
If you front load 20 to 30minutes with your child down on
(15:48):
the floor and then you saymommy's got to go down and do
some wash, do you want to comewith me?
Right, you want to help me?
If they want to come help you,great, you're getting more,
you're filling their bucketssome more.
Most kids are going to be likeno, that's okay, I'm going to
stay up here and play, okay,well, I'll be back in 10, 15.
Cindy (16:03):
Right, that's great.
It's a great example, and weheard a little bit about how you
support families and children,but more so, who?
Who is the who is looking foryour services?
What should people start to doto even get support in that way?
Jill (16:23):
So as an early childhood interventionist, I've been
working doing that for over 25years for a local early
intervention program run, aschool-based program.
So the early intervention thatI do is with children that have
some sort of developmental delayor they've been identified in
some cases as having qualifyingfor, like special education
(16:44):
under the age of three, and sothese services are focused on,
you know, doing the evaluationof the child and then going in
the home and helping work onwhatever goal areas the parent
may have.
I would say that probably 85%of the kids, maybe 90% of the
children that I've worked withover the years, it's been a
speech or communication delay.
Sometimes it's a motor delay,you know, sometimes it's just
(17:05):
kind of a global delay.
So as an interventionist, myjob is to go in and support the
parent and it's all done througha coaching model.
So I go in, we sit down, theyshare, they share you know
what's going on and then we lookat, come up with some ideas of
some different strategies.
Then I show the parent how toimplement those strategies and
coach them on how to do it withtheir child.
(17:26):
So that's really what earlyintervention is is, and what I
do as well in in my business iscoaching because as a, as a
therapist, I can get kids to doall sorts of things for me that
the parent can't, because Idon't have history right.
I'm'm starting with a cleanslate with a child, so they try
things with me that they mighttry with their parent, and then
(17:48):
the communication between thetwo of us.
They're like, okay, well, Iguess it doesn't work for her,
so I'll try figuring things outwith her in a new way.
As a parent it's far harder,right?
You know your child like.
I always use the example of achild who's not using a lot of
words, how they throw their cupat their parent and that's their
way of saying go fill that up.
And the parent's like, oh, youwant more milk.
And then they go and get itright.
When the parent stops doingthat, the little one's like I
(18:12):
don't think so.
No, that's how I do it andthat's when we start to
sometimes is to teach parentsand coach them through how to
work through those things andbuild new kinds of interactional
patterns that will help movethe child along in their
development.
So I always like to say theintervention happens between our
(18:34):
visits.
I'm just there to teach andcoach.
If the child makes any progressor achieves their goals, it's
solely because of the parent andthe work that they've done.
Which I think is the wonderfulthing about coaching is when
parents are like, oh, I can'tbelieve it, and I'm like no, you
did that.
I just told, I just gave you acouple of tools, you did the
work of implementing them, andthat builds what I call our
parenting self-esteem, likemaybe I can do this.
(18:57):
Okay, I've got this.
And it's so amazing to seeparents bloom in that way, like
I'll come in and I'll be likehow worried about your child's
development Are you?
On a scale of one to 10, 10being, I'm so worried, and one
being I'm not worried at all,and they're all like 10.
And then, after a couple ofperiods of intervention where
they're feeling more relaxed,I'll say where are you at?
And they'll be like, I don'tknow, I might be at like a three
(19:19):
and I'm like well, my work hereis almost done.
Then, right, you're feelinggood about what you're doing.
And I find that, as parents,that's really the key is, when
our kids are little, we don'thave very many tools in our
parenting toolbox because we'venever been a parent before or
the kid that we had before.
This one needed different toolsand we only needed two for them
because they were the easy kid.
(19:39):
Now we got the hard kid.
When we put more tools in ourtoolbox and practice them, our
confidence goes up that we canhandle what the kids are dishing
out in a way that feels good tous and also helps us to see
growth and learning in our kidsyeah, I love it and it's been so
helpful.
Cindy (19:56):
We had us, we put our child through a school program
he's currently in it as well and, um, we had a speech therapist
come and it was very similar.
You know, it was always hardbecause it was like okay, here's
how you do that.
It was almost like from us andit was unexpected because I
(20:16):
thought she was.
I don't know why, but I thoughtshe was going to come and they
were going to like sound wordsout and then he was going to
magically speak and she was likeno, you, here's your duties,
yeah, you're doing it, and thenyou know, so it's it.
But it's it wasn't.
You know, I took my undergradis in psychology and it still
(20:40):
wasn't intuitive.
So now it's.
You know, if you're a parentand you didn't get that hands-on
training, you wouldn't know.
So I think it's really great tohave the option to look into
services like that and I have.
Jill (20:55):
I have to ask you so at the end of that, because you
said he's three, right, yeah, soprobably transitioned into more
of a classroom type of thing.
So at the end of that work withthe person in the home or in
the early intervention location,at the end of it, how are you
feeling?
Cindy (21:12):
confidence, wise Less afraid of him being on his own.
Um, one of the biggest thingsthat me and his dad did was have
dad be at home.
Um, so we didn't put him in youknow daycare or anything just
because we were overbearing.
But as he started to developthe language, um, delay and some
(21:36):
of these other other you knowthings that he has that he's
very particular about, it mademe really nervous.
It made me really, you know, Istill feel nervous about him
being in another space.
But after having those sessionsand you know her saying like you
need to let him explore, youneed to let him know that
there's options, because if hedoesn't know that he has to like
(21:59):
, if mommy gives everything,because mommy knows best, he
doesn't learn how to makedecisions right and so it makes
it difficult when there's a.
The example she said was whenthere's a bad decision and a
good decision in the playground.
He's not going to have thatalready like instinctual, not
that like practice, withthinking about oh, there's an
(22:22):
option.
He's just going to go with whatfeels like.
What's the first feeling.
Often that is an aggressivefeeling or like it's my toy or
things like that.
So I did feel more confidentwith him going into the school
program and it was.
I almost cried that day.
We were in the they do thatevaluation at school and they
(22:45):
were like he is so sweet and hehad.
You know, he was saying hisABCs and all these things that
you know.
It was empowering for me as amom.
There's still a lot of work todo, you know.
That was like we got to stepone and now we're at step two
out of a thousand, but we'removing.
(23:07):
So you know, that's really howI felt.
Jill (23:11):
Oh, that's great to hear.
Yeah, it's that when you startto feel like, okay, I've got
some tools right, Like I've gotsome things that I know I can do
when these things happen it, itreally does make a big shift in
how we're feeling about ourparenting.
Cindy (23:25):
Yeah, and then I think, especially with the um, the
social media aspect of thiscause, it's that's an entire
different conversation.
But you know, I get on TikTokand it's like here's how you,
gentle parent, this is not howyou, gentle parent, this is
what's affected.
So it's like so confusing ofyou know what is the socially
(23:47):
accepted way to guide your kids,let alone discipline or, like
you know, have boundaries.
Maybe discipline is the wrongword.
Now I don't know.
Like you know, have boundaries.
Maybe discipline is the wrongword.
Jill (23:58):
Now I don't know anymore, but you know it's just, it's a
lot, there's so much out thereand I'm going to tell you that,
as a social worker that I am, Ihate the term gentle parenting
only because I and I know peopleare like, hey, wait a minute,
no, no, no, no, wait, hear meout.
And I know people are like, hey, wait a minute, no, no, no, no,
wait, hear me out.
(24:20):
I hate the term gentleparenting just because I think
it's so confusing for people andthat a lot of times it gets
mixed up with being permissiveand really I know that what
they're meaning by gentleparenting is to be what we know
from the research, from decadesof research, be what we know
from the research, from decadesof research.
(24:40):
It comes down to a parentingstyle and that is the
authoritative parenting style or, as I like, love and Logic.
They call it the consultant.
Right, when you're consultantparenting, you have boundaries
with your children, but theboundaries that you have, they
can be firm, but they're loving.
They're also flexible andcommunication is a priority for
(25:03):
those parents.
But they also know when tocommunicate, especially with
young kids, because we'recommunicating too much when
they're up here with theiremotions and we shouldn't but
also being very, very flexibleand focusing on that
relationship and using a lot ofnatural consequences, as opposed
to the permissive parent or thehelicopter parent, right the
drill sergeant or the drillsergeant parent.
(25:24):
Those two parenting styles weknow from the research have not
got great outcomes for kids downthe road, because they both
inherently are sending a messageto kids that you can't think on
your own.
Consultant parent is going toallow their child to make some
mistakes while the price tag issmall, knowing that they're
going to learn more that way,and then be there to help them
(25:48):
figure out how to maybe do thatnext time in a way where they
don't have that outcome.
Cindy (25:54):
Yeah, the explanation makes it so, so much better than
than you know.
I think it's, all in all, inthe PR of things too.
Um, I, it's um.
Sometimes it's odd when olderfamily members or you know other
people in in my community whogrew up maybe in a different
(26:18):
country, completely different,like the way my grandmother grew
up you know it was veryauthoritarian yes, you, you know
it was that like, oh, you'recrying, I'll give you a reason
to cry about it, it just didn'tmake sense.
And then they see you askingyour child like what you know,
how can I help you?
It's very, very contrasted.
(26:42):
So I do really appreciate howyou describe that.
For us Now, I think the lastthing I want to ask you and you
might have you may have saidthis already and if you want to
just re restate it, that's fine,but we want to do a walk away
(27:03):
point or a final gem.
If somebody's listening to thispodcast, what is something that
you know they should reallyjust take away, like if it's
just one one liner type of thingof you know, what do we, what
do you want parents to knowabout, um, their children or the
, or anything?
Jill (27:24):
and from this conversation , I think probably, um, the
biggest thing for me is that,well, it's two things.
One is that, uh, development isone of your greatest tools to
have in your parenting toolkitto understand development.
And the second one would be toparticular to this younger age
group, to understand that theiremotional regulation is going to
(27:45):
be dependent on yours, and it'sa process that you are involved
in.
You have to teach them how toemotionally regulate.
They don't just figure it outon their own.
It can take up to the age offive to seven, depending on the
child, for them to truly get tothe point where they can learn
how to emotionally regulate.
Cindy (28:03):
I love that.
And moms out there, it's notyou, it's them.
No, this has been great.
Thank you so, um, for theconversation and all of the
great information.
Um, and then separately, I'llask you what is the difference
(28:25):
between the tantrum and ameltdown?
Jill (28:28):
because now that just came back to me, I'm wondering so um
in in my book, having workedwith so many little ones and
seeing tantrums and meltdowns sooften.
To me a tantrum is usually aresult of a limit, like you
can't touch the TV, or can Ihave a cookie and know we're
going to eat dinner, right?
(28:48):
So those are the big emotionsthat they have as a result of
usually a limit or some sort ofconsequence where they didn't
get something they wanted, whichis totally normal for this age
group to have.
And meltdowns are normal too.
But I see meltdowns as more oflike just an overload, and that
overload could come or start asa tantrum, right, but then it
(29:12):
turns into a meltdown.
This is where the emotions getsuper big.
The reactions are like holy cow.
Why are we screaming this muchover the fact that I gave you
the blue cup instead of thegreen cup?
Well, it could be.
I'm hungry, I'm not feelinggood, the TV is on and I didn't
get enough movement today, sothey're just on sensory overload
(29:32):
.
When they go into that meltdown, the response to both, you know
we need to still focus onhelping them to calm first.
I always like the strategy calm, connect, correct.
But that's how I see them.
Differently, the meltdown maystart as a tantrum and turn into
a meltdown, but sometimes it'sjust a tantrum where I didn't
get what I want.
I get a little bit upset andthen I just kind of move on and
(29:53):
find something else to do.
Cindy (29:55):
Thank you so much for explaining that and for being
part of this conversation today.
I'm going to include theinformation for your website or
any other resources, down in thedescription box.
I think it's the notes forthose listening on their
preferred podcast host.
If not, on YouTube, you'll seethe description box.
(30:16):
Thank you so much.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
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