April 22, 2025 • 34 mins
The journey from marital bliss to the brink of divorce isn't a sudden leap—it's a gradual drift marked by subtle warning signs that many couples miss until it's almost too late. After celebrating 15 years together, we're pulling back the curtain on the year we nearly ended our marriage.
Small phrases can become relationship poison. For years, during arguments, I would say to Pierre, "Maybe you married the wrong person." Though I never doubted he was right for me, I questioned whether I was right for him. After a decade of hearing this, he began to believe it might be true. These seemingly innocent words created deep fractures in our foundation.
The emotional withdrawal was perhaps most telling. Physical touch, once a primary love language for Pierre, became uncomfortable. "I'm fine" became our mantra—a dangerous lie that masked deeper problems. Communication broke down to the point where every conversation felt like navigating a minefield—even simple questions about daily tasks could explode into conflict.
Our challenges were compounded by cultural differences as an interracial couple, the struggles of marrying young, and surrounding ourselves with people who normalized divorce. Pornography, criticism, and resentment further eroded our connection.
What saved us? Two critical elements: individually seeking God when we couldn't pray together, and professional therapy that helped us escape the conversation loops we couldn't break on our own. Our therapist knew our personality types and gave us practical tools to rebuild what was broken.
Today, we're passionate about helping others recognize these warning signs before reaching crisis point. If you're seeing these patterns in your relationship, there's still hope. We'd love to pray with you, connect you with resources, or simply be a listening ear as you navigate your own journey. Remember—even a marriage on the brink can be restored to something stronger than before.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up y'all?
Welcome to let's Dig thePodcast.
My name is Pierre and you guysmay not know, but my wonderful
host, my bride, my partner, mymain one, not even my first lady
, my only lady.
We're going to talk about thatbecause people be saying first
lady, I'm like you must have asecond one.
But y'all know my baby girl, mywifey.
This is Danny Lee, which backin the days I used to call you
(00:20):
little mama.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's true.
Remember, call you little mama.
That's true, remember, that was18 years ago.
Actually, I told you, if youkept calling me, that I might
have to marry you, dang.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
And we just celebrated 15 yearsof marriage.
But y'all, it hasn't alwaysbeen good and we almost got a
divorce.
And that's what we're talkingabout today.
We're going to talk about someof those indicators, some of
those signs that were telling ushey, mayday, mayday.
(00:43):
I always have Rip Free in myhead, like you know how there's,
like certain movie scenes, thatjust it is.
You're going to laugh at this.
It's Genie from Aladdin when heturns into a bumblebee and he's
like Mayday, mayday, mayday.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mayday, mayday.
I wasn't.
I wasn't allowed to watch itbecause I was saved and
sanctified.
Bruh, it's.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Aladdin, please.
But anyways, there were signsin our marriage.
There were things that werecatching up to us and showing us
that, hey, you are in serioustrouble and you're really
heading towards divorce.
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
We're going to talk about thoseindicators and those signs that
are saying that your marriagemight be in trouble, and then
we're going to give you someideas and some recommendations,
(01:21):
solutions to help you change thetrajectory of where you're
headed.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, man, it was.
You may actually be in arelationship right now and you
starting to feel or sensetension.
There might be some thingsright now in your marriage that
you're like man, I don't know ifI can live with this.
Or maybe you're even datingright now and this might
resonate with you where you'relike man, I'm dating this person
, but there's some things aboutthis guy or some things about
this girl that I just can'tstand and deep down inside you
(01:47):
know you can't live with it.
So we're going to talk aboutsome red flags, some indicators,
but we're going to share reallyour story, some things that we
gone through, what weencountered when we felt, man,
are we about to get a divorceright now?
And so if this topic todayyou're excited about it, hit.
So if this topic today you'reexcited about it, hit that like,
hit that thumbs up, hit thatlittle heart, too, as well.
(02:08):
If you're watching this onApple, on Spotify, shout out to
all of our let's Dig crewmembers.
You guys already know why weare here.
We are here to help you grow adeeper relationship with God,
others and yourself.
So if you're ready, let's dig.
All right, let's dig.
You know that year wasinteresting, so this was back in
2020.
Um, the wall started closing inon us.
(02:29):
So you know, at that pointwe've been married for 10 years
and um I there were some smallthings about about us that
literally started to rise up tothe surface.
There were like little um jabsthat we would make at each other
early on in our marriage thatwe would just brush off, but we
would carry on like you wouldsay this line.
(02:50):
Every time we would argue,you'd say something like well,
maybe you married the wrongperson.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I did say that.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I think that's a phrase that people say in
marriage sometimes when you'refighting.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I felt like you were the right person for me, you
were the best person for me.
You were the best person for me, but it didn't.
I didn't feel worthy and Ididn't have the identity that I
do now to say that, no, I am thebest person for you.
So in those moments of tensionand argument I'd be like, well,
maybe you just married the wrongperson.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I never doubted it for myself, I doubted it for you
yeah, it's interesting becauseI think you started saying that
early on in our marriage, whenwe year one and two, three, when
we get into some really uglyfights, yes, and you say that
comment maybe you married thewrong person, yeah, and here we
are 10 years later at this pointwhere we're looking at the year
that we're actually consideringa divorce.
(03:41):
Yeah, all I can hear is 10years of you saying you married
the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's crazy.
It like stuck to you.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It stuck with me because I would actually
convince myself that that wasthe truth.
Maybe she was the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
All because I put that idea in your head, because
I threw that out there, becauseI let those words come out of my
mouth to penetrate your mindand your heart, for you to
actually start considering it inthose rough seasons.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I think what also, what also caused damage with a
phrase like that is, eventhroughout the years, I would
meditate on it and anytime youdid things that I didn't like or
there were characteristicsabout you that I wish were
different, Right, and obviouslyI could have made the change in
my.
I could have made the change inmyself.
But why make the change inmyself when my wife was telling
(04:31):
me she's the wrong person?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And listen y'all, a lot of it is uh, it's a trend of
uh, of a phrase, of a type ofwife and mom and it's called a
type B mom.
That's me, y'all.
Like, I am not type A, I am notclean and organized, I am not
structured, and that wasliterally a lot of the tension,
Like I don't want to brush over,it was literally practical
(04:55):
things of yes, I have a pile ofclothes in my bedroom every week
.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And in your car.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't have a pile of clothes in my car Are we
talking now or then?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Even then I didn't and in your bathroom Listen and
on the bed and on the chairwhile I was trying to sit.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
There is a pile on the chair.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I'm trying to sit here.
Well, my clothes are sittingthere.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I'm trying to tell the people All right, go ahead.
That it was very practicalthings.
It wasn't deep like religiousbeliefs that we didn't see eye
to eye.
It wasn't like lifestylechoices.
It was literally just likeDanny Lee isms that were
conflicting with Pierre isms.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, it's living together.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, it's blending your life together.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
It's blending your life together.
It's choices, and I think, too,like also when we first started
dating and got engaged, wewould fantasize and dream about
things that we wanted to be foreach other, and I wonder if
there were things that like viceversa, that you, that you would
want from me, like, for example, you like, for example, your
(06:02):
love language, right Like one ofyour main love languages is
touch, and when we first gottogether, like I, I'm just not a
toucher.
Right Right, don't touch me,right Right.
Only person that could touch meis Jesus you know what I mean.
And the Holy Spirit.
You're like bro, why are you sochurchy?
He touched me, oh, he touchedme.
(06:24):
And now he touched me.
Who touched me?
He touched me.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Why are you still going?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But I'm like yo, why are you touching me though?
So, but I remember you justlike touching, you like cuddling
, you like doing these things,and I remember thinking like man
, this girl, man, she like apuppy right now, A little tiny
little puppy.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And I would tell myself that yeah, yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, I'd come home and we'dfantasize to come home and we'd
have long hugs and like we'dtalk about it, but we never
really like confronted, we neverreally like, really like,
really faced it.
And years down our marriage Iwould just stop because it
wasn't me by nature and you heldon to that deep down.
Vice versa, there are thingsthat I wanted from you that we
(07:07):
would entertain each other.
We just dream about things likethat.
So I think in the dating stagetoo, there's people that causes
damage to their relationship bytalking about the things that
they want from each otherwithout actual action steps and
years down the road where thosethings don't get fulfilled, it's
be like well, you always saidyou were going to be that for me
, Just empty promises.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
After years and years and you're like I just thought
you'd grow out of that.
I thought you would grow up.
I thought you would learn how tobe more you know, responsible
for your time or responsiblewith your money, Like you have
these things that when you meetthem as a dating couple, you
give a lot of grace because loveis blind and oh, it's fine.
He doesn't really have anymoney, but it's fine.
But then as you start to builda life together, you have
(07:49):
requirements from each otherthat are needed to build a life
together and if you don't followthrough in what you said,
you're going to do like you'regoing to have major problems
down the road.
So it's seeing those needs fromeach other and verbalizing
those expectations.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
That year, when we talked aboutman getting a divorce, I
remember there were things likeeven touching was a thing that
we at this point, didn't wantanymore.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Boy, if you touch me one time in the bed with your
feet, I'm going to come out ofthis bed and I'm such a toucher.
But in that season I, the Icould not be far enough from you
and it's, it's heartbreaking tothink back to that season and
it being so, um, different frommy personality and from who I am
(08:40):
when I'm in a healthy place andwhen we're in a healthy place.
That is not my nature at all.
My nature is very touchy.
I want that comfort.
I enjoy that.
That is one of my biggest lovelanguages.
And so to think back of like,don't touch me, I'm fine.
Um, another part of it was justbeing very like, um, I was fine
(09:01):
with the anger and I was finewith the distance between us.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, I'm fine.
Is an indicator that can, ifnot dealt with, can, lead to
divorce or lead to separation orlead to a disconnect.
Some people might say wellPierre, divorce is probably
extreme, ok, let's start atlevel one.
It might lead to a disconnect.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, I was very fine with the disconnect.
I was very fine with you, doyou?
I'll do me and we'll be fineLike and I again, both of these
uh topics and points of ourrelationship were very out of
character for me.
I'm not like that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
That's so interesting, becausesaying I'm fine is actually a
lie.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I mean even even things like this.
We were, we'd be sitting downtogether and one of us would say
what are you thinking about?
To say nothing?
That's a lie.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
We do that all the time, guys, so in our
relationship and are actually inour family.
When there is silence uh, youstarted it actually when we were
dating, I think but he wouldalways say what are you thinking
about?
And we even use it now with ourkids, like when they're really
quiet, we'll say what are youthinking about?
Um, and it just opens thatopportunity to actually say
(10:15):
where is your headspace, what isyour mind spending time on, and
it gives a very good open doorto collect all my thoughts, my
dreams, my vision, everythingthat I saw and felt at night.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And the things that God is putting on my heart.
So I'm actually always thinkingabout something, and it's not
heavy things, it's not like man.
That guy is heavy burdened withhis thoughts.
No, it's just.
I'm just thinking about smallthings.
I'm checking things off my list, right, you know even small
things.
That's like, hey, I need tofinish thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
That's crazy to me.
You'll be like, oh yeah, I'mgoing to think about that
tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
He'll set times.
I haven't thought about it yet.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
To think about something.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You're like no, let's think about it.
Right now I just I can't whatI'm thinking about because I'm
going to talk to you about it, Iheard it, I heard it, the
neighbors heard it.
The neighbors heard it, theenemy heard it, I'm on a roll.
But so I started that becauseit was like I know if someone
(11:27):
asks me like what I'm thinkingabout, I could tell them that
year was a lot of like nothing.
Yeah you good, I'm fine, likewe got content with just being
fine.
I think those are indicatorsthat somebody or a couple is on
the verge on on like they're onthe journey to a disconnect, to
separation and even a divorce.
(11:49):
That year we felt that you knowwhat I'm saying, for sure, I
think.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Another thing I remember back then was that
there were no conversations,topics, questions that were safe
, like I could not just ask youabout what are you doing tonight
, or what's your plans fortomorrow, or what do you have on
your schedule, or did you pickthat up from the store or did
you go do that I?
(12:14):
there was nothing that I couldsay to you that I knew.
No, that won't end in anargument.
It felt like everything couldbe an argument If I asked you if
you brush your teeth thismorning.
I felt like it could be anargument.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
You ever play that game, minesweeper.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yes, that's literally what it felt like, because no
one knows how to actually playthe game.
You just hit the buttonsrandomly and then it's a bomb.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
There's no rhyme or reason to the game, right.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I mean, I was pretty good at it.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But I was stupid.
Anyways, anyways but yes,that's what it felt like, of
like I could ask him what hewants for lunch tomorrow or
today, and it may end up in abomb.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Why I got to pick what we eat for lunch tomorrow.
It it was just like what it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
It was honestly.
It was so draining and sostressful to overthink, to like
be nervous, to bring up a topicor approach something, or we got
to figure this out, we have tomake a decision together, like.
I hated that feeling of like,oh, here we are, we're gonna
fight again.
That's crazy.
It was terrible that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Um, let me pause real quick.
I want to hear what you guysthink like.
What are you guys going throughright now for those that are in
marriages, for those that are,let's say, you're dating, you're
dating somebody and there'ssome indicators, there's some
signs, there's some things thatyou're just like man.
This doesn't feel right Because, at the end of the day, we all
have choices to make.
Right, you may have been like,you may have picked someone to
(13:34):
be your wife, to be your husband, and you feel like man.
Did I make a wrong choice?
Perhaps, but there's still waysto reconcile.
There's still ways to restore.
Both parties need to make adecision because, at the end of
the day, man, we are alwaysmaking decisions.
You have to decide whether yougo left or whether you go right.
So, if your partner, you'resaying I picked the wrong
partner, maybe, but you canactually still honor that
(14:02):
relationship by both you guys.
Come into agreement and makenew decisions together.
But I want to hear like fromyou guys, like, like, obviously,
write us back.
Comment.
If you guys are even liking thisconversation, like, hit that,
like, um, share this.
Send this to somebody right nowthat you feel like needs to
hear this.
Send this to your partner Onlyif your partner has come to
agreement where they're like hey, we want to talk about this, we
want to work this out, but atthe end of the day, both people
have to make a decision.
(14:22):
Here we are again with thedecision to stay in the ring,
like you can't fight somebodythat's out of the ring.
You can't fight someone thatsaid, no, I don't want to go to
therapy, no, I actually I don'twant to talk.
Right, that was a year where weboth was like we would hash it
out.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
We would argue, and we?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
didn't like that feeling of just being fine, I
mean even our sex life, whichwas crazy.
I'm gonna say this right nowI'm not gonna say nothing while
relax relax.
Come on, I've been purified,all right.
I've been washed from theinside, okay, right.
What I'm saying is our sex lifeactually didn't change.
We was actually still havinggood sex that year.
(15:00):
But I'm just gonna put this outthere it's because your boy was
still initiating.
Because us guys we see sexdifferently.
That's true, right.
I'm not saying I'm not sayingit was healthy, right, right it
was still present.
Because there were times whereactually I had to repent,
because I'm going to say thisright now on recording you
(15:22):
weren't always the one on mymind Dang.
Sometimes there was nothing onmy mind.
Sometimes someone else mighthave triggered my thought that
day.
Right, sometimes it was like,oh, I see her, I see you, I see
you, I want to have sex with her.
No, it was other things thatwas getting in me that year.
(15:42):
Matter of fact, another thingthat also almost led to divorce
was I was hanging out withpeople that was divorced.
I was hanging out people thatwas having divorce parties,
people that was celebratingdivorce.
So after spending so much timewith people like that and then
seeing other things, other women, all these other things that
triggered my mind, I'd come homeand say, all right, we, we, I
still wanted to have sex.
(16:02):
So ultimately, it wasn'thealthy, it was all unhealthy,
it was toxic, it was dysfunction, it wasn't pure.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
It wasn't what God intended it to be.
But I think that's a really bigpoint of like who are you
hanging around?
Like who are your people andwhat are they doing?
What does their life look like?
Because who you run with is whoyou become, and if you're
running around with a bunch ofdivorcee people, you're going to
become divorced.
If you're running around withcheaters, you're going to become
(16:33):
a cheater, because your friendsare telling you it's fine, it's
not that big of a deal, oh, Ididn't want to do it, but I
ended up doing it.
Like they're going to help youjustify everything that you do.
Like I want to be around peoplethat actually make me want to
be a better person.
I want to be around people thathelp me grow and become all
that God's called me to be, notto justify my sin or make sin or
(16:56):
make me comfortable in it.
I want to be around someone whomakes me uncomfortable in my
sin and that I can't sit hereand stay the same.
I think another thing that Ireally want to talk about is
like in a marriage and it wasn'tnecessarily for ours, but it
became a feeling that I had butit's that constant criticism,
(17:19):
Like when it comes from onepartner or another.
I don't think you intentionallyconstantly criticize me, but
because we were in an unhealthyplace, it's actually all I heard
and it made me like have lackof confidence, lack of
self-esteem.
I didn't trust myself inanything that I was doing
because all I thought was thatyou were just going to criticize
(17:41):
me and I know that wasn't yourintention, but it it plays a
part when our, when our bond ishealthy or unhealthy, and so in
those seasons when it wasunhealthy, all I heard, whether
you said it or not, but all Icould hear was criticism and I
know it's come that back way toyou as well, Like come back to
you in the sense of oh, you hearme is criticizing you.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, no, you were.
I don't think you were.
You actually weren'tcriticizing me you kept on
reminding me that maybe I hadthe wrong wife.
So, with that being said, letme critique you into the right
wife.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Dang, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
See the connection.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
It was all wrong.
It's all jacked up, yeah, andit's not, and so it wasn't.
You weren't criticizing me,right, it was me critiquing you.
That's crazy.
You were making me think maybeyou were the wrong wife.
So it was like, well, how do Imake you the right wife?
Which it was all wrong.
Yeah Right, you know it's crazyman just to really think about
it and process it like what thatyear was like the walls were
(18:40):
closing in on us.
There's a lot of things thatled us to that point.
You know.
Even porn played a role in that, because I wasn't set free from
porn that year yet.
So it's just little things.
Here and there it was.
Somebody said well, that was asmall addiction, small, big,
(19:04):
large it was.
Was I able to function?
Most men struggle with this andthey all have different issues.
Some of them are like man, Ican't stop, I all, I do,
everything I do.
I have two phones, I'm hiding,I'm secret every single day, or
others were probably more likeme can go several days without
ever looking at anything, right,sometimes weeks, and then one
week is one day, two days, threedays, and it's little things.
So watching porn hurtsmarriages, absolutely.
(19:26):
It hurts marriages because it'slike, oh, I'm looking at all
these girls here in this videoor in this thing or in this
picture.
You know there's all these typesof apps you.
You know Instagram is in yourface, right, and the algorithms,
right.
You know TikTok I had to getoff a TikTok group.
I'm like all these girlstwerking on here.
There was other apps likePinterest.
You see stuff on Pinterest.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
You see stuff on Tumblr.
I had never seen Pinterest looklike what I saw your Pinterest
look like like not intentionallyby you, but the the algorithm.
I'm on pinterest.
I didn't even know that stuffwas on pinterest.
Yeah, most women don't knowthat anything is on pinterest
like that.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
So that year it was all these little things, and so,
even when we were having sexthose nights, there was all
these other things throughoutthe day that triggered that,
that that initiated it, whichwas causing a separation, a
disconnect between you and I,because I was no longer pursuing
you that year Like our marriagewas.
(20:22):
It was challenged that year,man.
It really was, and I thinkanother thing that really hurt
us personally and we've talkedabout this other episodes was, I
think, getting married reallyyoung.
I think I wouldn't.
I wouldn't recommend anybody toget married like as as children
(20:43):
and when I say children I'm nottalking about, like you know,
12, 13.
I'm talking about like still inyour formative years, like 18,
19, 20, 21.
People do it, we did it and wemade it through, but the odds,
the stats are against, becauseit's like I'm still a boy.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We're completely different people than who we
were at that age.
Yeah, Like it's crazy that weactually made it through.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, man, like you know you're dating a guy that
you don't even know his workethic yet.
Right, you know, luckily for me, you know you're like you're
dating a guy that you don't evenknow his work ethic yet you
know, luckily for me, you did inthat in that category.
But there's other things Ididn't know about myself, like
and then like not realizingthere are so many different
things.
That wasn't developed in us,even our culture understanding.
I didn't really value where Icame from.
(21:33):
Yeah, you didn't even like likefully own where you came from.
Yeah, you didn't even like, uh,like fully own where you came
from.
Right, you was constantlytrying to take on new cultures
and just adopt wherever you were.
You became that.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I just yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And then in the middle, five years, in like five
, six, seven, and then hit year10, here we are.
We're like man.
We're very different.
I never adopted anything aboutyour background.
You never adopted anythingabout my background.
So for us personally, like Ithink, our culture differences
man being an interracial coupleis hard.
Let me say that right now forpeople that just like are
(22:07):
interested in dating outside ofyour race.
I'm not going to tell you tonot do it, I'm just going to
tell you it's work, becausethere's some things that are
just different about you thatyou don't know until you bring
in kids into the picture, untilthe holidays come back around.
There are certain things, likecertain political things,
national holidays can betriggering.
There might be months of theyear that's important to one and
(22:30):
the other.
One could care less about it.
There's just a lot of thosedifferences.
That being an interracialcouple bringing in biracial kids
into this world, bro, thatthing hit us hard.
That evening.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, I think I always say and I've talked about
it in these other episodes onething that my mom did so well
with me when I was dating youand considering to marry you and
date you seriously and she saidlike, hey, marriage is hard no
matter what, but marriage with adifferent culture background is
even harder.
And she said you can choose todo this and we'll support you
(23:02):
and we love you and we thinkhe's a great guy and you know
like it's, we'll be here for you, but know that it is an extra
layer of challenge because ofthe culture differences.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, yeah.
What are some things that thatare like some clear, like a list
of like clear just indicators,flags, like things that if
you're experiencing this in yourrelationships, that beware that
you're, you're in danger likeyour relationship.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm just going to hit a few of them.
One lack of communication Likethis, like we talked about, like
everything was a fight, wecould not have communication.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Or in that same category.
We just actually weren'ttalking.
Yeah, there was just space,that's the last.
There was just avoidance.
We're just not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Another one is constant criticism, like tearing
each other down.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Always negative.
Um the other, another one,emotional or physical withdrawal
.
So like I think a big one isemotional withdrawal, like when
you feel like your partner isjust shut down or maybe you're
the partner that is just shutdown, like that is a huge
indicator that you are introuble.
Um, loss of intimacy, secretsand lies.
(24:22):
Secrets and lies, like whenthere is no honesty.
There's no way you can build ahealthy marriage with secrets
and lies and doubt and confusion.
I can't.
There's no trust there and Ican't trust you if you're always
secretive, if you're alwayslying, if you're hiding things
from me that is lying.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
It's crazy because it's actually one of the 10
commandments right.
Giving false testimonies, alying lip.
Matter of fact, it's actuallyone of the sins that God hates.
And so when it goes into amarriage, which is a covenant, a
union between man and a woman,and that comes inside of a
(25:03):
marriage, not only is itdishonoring to that person, but
it's dishonoring to God which iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
And honesty is literally like the oxygen to a
marriage it's the only thingthat keeps it alive.
It's the only thing that keepsit alive it's the only thing
that allows it to breathe andcontinue to have longevity is
honesty.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
We're here because of honesty.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, sure.
Another one is resentment, likecarrying on that resentment and
not forgiving, not letting goof something.
Like maybe you say like, oh, Iforgave them, but you're
actually not letting go of it.
You're holding it over theirhead, you're always constantly
reminding them of the time thatyou forgave them, like you're
(25:43):
just literally sitting in thatresentment and you're carrying
it with you.
There's no way you can buildhealthy relationships if you're
constantly in the past andsitting in that resentment
that's crazy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Holding keeping records of wrong, yeah, which is
crazy man.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
That is crazy.
Another one is um contentment,like signs of contentment of um
wait, it's not the right word.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I don't think that's the right word.
Well, I mean being content,like contentment, yeah Well, I
mean, like when you said thatthe first thing I thought was
just being fine, like being finejust as it is like you know,
like I would actually transitiona word which to like settling
okay, yes almost like settlingof like, whatever it is what it
(26:31):
is yeah, like being not even.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
We're just gonna be roommates're going to be
roommates or we're just going towait for the?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
kids to just grow up, or that's just.
Oh well, you know your mom, orwell you know, you start telling
that just to your kids.
Or, yup, that's just, or he'lljust never respect me, Settling
like, even though you never getan actual technical divorce,
there's a separation, and to me,like I would hate, I don't want
you to be my roommate.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Because if I'm looking for a roommate, there's
way much better.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I'm not it.
There's way much betterapplicants out there Way much
better Way much better, way muchbetter.
All right, you said it likethree times too, you doing 10
toes down on it.
There's way much betterroommates.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I know People, a podcaster, why does he talk like
that way?
Much better, way, much better.
Man, all right, relax there,there, there, there are better
candidates out there.
Yeah, if I'm looking for aroommate, right, I don't want, I
don't want a roommate out ofyou, like you were my life
partner.
Yeah, and we have decisionsthat we can honor.
(27:30):
And the thing is, I coulddecide to say you know what I
could step out of this switch.
First of all, let me go aheadand go on record.
It's the only time because wehave biblical backgrounds, the
only time divorce is actuallypermissible, it's when there is
infidelity, when there's sinthat got inside of the marriage.
(27:51):
That's where the Bible says youshould get a divorce of the
marriage.
That's where the bible says, oh, you should get a divorce.
So I'm not saying like yo, um,if you're getting a divorce just
because you don't like theperson, no, no, like that's.
That's not why you should,because you're not gonna like
the next person for sure.
If you're getting a divorcebecause, uh, they just can't get
their life together, well,that's subjective.
(28:13):
Get them a counselor, get thema planner, right, get them a
watch planner, a paper planner,where you lick your finger and
turn the pages.
I'm just saying is I made achoice and I chose you, and it
does break my heart.
Um, for those out there thatthat are listening right now, um
, you feel like there's no hope.
Yeah, you are listening to thisbecause you saw the title and
(28:34):
you're like man, I'm with apartner that I chose and they're
not choosing me anymore, andthat's tough and we'd love to
honestly just pray with you guys.
We'd love to hear from you.
So, if that is, you honestlyseriously hit us up, because we
know that feeling of being rightthere on the line of making a
(28:54):
decision Should I choose you ornot?
Some things that we did was wedid pray, we did seek God, we
trusted God.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And, to be honest with you, most of that was on
our own and not together,because we were not in alignment
in that same point.
But you sought God and I soughtGod, and then that was a major
contributor to how we got backtogether.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So the biggest advice that I can say for those who
sought God in pursuing yoursignificant other is seek God
when your significant other isdrifting.
Oftentimes we seek God whenit's time to make a decision and
then we leave them out on theback end of it.
So if you prayed about yourmarriage, if you prayed about
(29:40):
your relationship, if you soughtGod on this, like, keep seeking
him, like put it in God's handand let him take over.
So that's what I really justwant to encourage you guys,
because that's what we did.
And then we got therapy.
We got therapy.
Get yourself some therapy.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
That's what we did, and then we got therapy.
We got therapy.
Get yourself some therapy.
The conversations that wetalked about earlier of like we
would talk for hours and hoursand hours just like fighting and
trying to figure it out, Like Iremember so vividly saying, I
think we've talked ourself intoa hole that we cannot get
ourselves out of Because it justnever felt like it got better,
(30:14):
it never felt like we weregetting anywhere and we were
just having these deepconversations that were very
hard, heartbreaking, frustrating, irritating.
We were getting so mad at eachother because we were both just
not hearing each other and Isaid I don't think we can get
ourselves out of this.
And God blessed us with themost wonderful, like faith,
(30:35):
faith, Bible-believing therapistthat truly, truly walked us
through that process.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yeah, so that's why we say we're here to help you
guys grow a deep relationshipwith God, others and yourself.
Because if you can justrecognize what God sees in you,
that's you loving yourself, yourecognizing who God is.
He's the creator, he's theauthor, he's the one that wrote
your story.
Seek the person who wrote yourstory.
(31:00):
Seek the person who created you.
Right.
A lot of times we're trying tofind validity in all these other
people, but actually the onlyperson that we should actually
find our value in is the onethat made us.
He made you with value, madeyou with purpose already and
relationship with others.
That matters because ourtherapist came in clutch.
He knew exactly our personalitytypes.
He knew what books to give usto keep us together.
So, with God plus with the helpof man, like, we're here today,
(31:23):
we're strong, we're in love, welove our family, we love our
lives.
We threw the towel in on thispodcast because we didn't
believe in ourselves anymore.
Because of the grace of God andthe help of man, we're here
today.
So if you guys need help, like,reach out, we'd love to pray
with you, we'd love to partnerwith you.
(31:43):
Like, how can we help you, howcan we support you in this
season?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
So, yeah, that's good .
I'm grateful and I'm I'mthankful for an opportunity to
sit here on this podcast and totell of all that God has done
for us, because that was part ofthe reason for us to say no,
let's do this again, Because westopped when we were going into
this dark season and then, whenGod brought us completely
through it and it had had sometime and it had had some years,
(32:08):
we're like man.
God has been so good to us andhe's healed us to be better than
we ever thought it could beagain or ever was before, and we
knew like we can't not tell ofGod's goodness and we cannot
keep this to ourselves that hereally brought us from the point
of like, well, I'll go here andyou'll go there, and you can
have the kids and I'll take thecar, and how am I going to make
(32:31):
money?
Like all the down to the nittygritties of like actual steps
taken to I guess this is notgonna work out for our marriage.
What do I do next To now beinghere and being like, look what
the Lord has done.
Like he has truly done a miraclein our marriage and it would be
a shame for us to not tell ofGod's goodness and God's grace.
(32:51):
So that's why we're here today.
Y'all is to encourage you andto say, hey, these are the
things we saw in our marriageand in our experience, and if
you're seeing them, here aresome steps and here are some
things that you can do to helpavoid the divorce.
But you can seek the Lord, youcan seek counsel with a
therapist or with your pastor orsomeone that you trust and that
(33:12):
you look to, or you can reachout to us and that we would love
to pray for you and we wouldlove to put resources in your
hand or connect you with someonethat can help you walk through
those next steps for yourmarriage and for your life.
Yeah, so that's it.
We love y'all, we're prayingfor you and we hope that this
encouraged you and we will seeyou next time.
Let's dig.
What's up y'all?
Welcome to let's Dig thePodcast.
My name is Pierre and you guysmay not know, but my wonderful
host, my bride, my partner, mymain one, not even my first lady
, my only lady.
We're going to talk about thatbecause people be saying first
lady, I'm like you must have asecond one.
But y'all know my baby girl, mywifey.
This is Danny Lee, which backin the days I used to call you
(00:20):
little mama.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's true.
Remember, call you little mama.
That's true, remember, that was18 years ago.
Actually, I told you, if youkept calling me, that I might
have to marry you, dang.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
And we just celebrated 15 yearsof marriage.
But y'all, it hasn't alwaysbeen good and we almost got a
divorce.
And that's what we're talkingabout today.
We're going to talk about someof those indicators, some of
those signs that were telling ushey, mayday, mayday.
(00:43):
I always have Rip Free in myhead, like you know how there's,
like certain movie scenes, thatjust it is.
You're going to laugh at this.
It's Genie from Aladdin when heturns into a bumblebee and he's
like Mayday, mayday, mayday.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mayday, mayday.
I wasn't.
I wasn't allowed to watch itbecause I was saved and
sanctified.
Bruh, it's.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Aladdin, please.
But anyways, there were signsin our marriage.
There were things that werecatching up to us and showing us
that, hey, you are in serioustrouble and you're really
heading towards divorce.
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
We're going to talk about thoseindicators and those signs that
are saying that your marriagemight be in trouble, and then
we're going to give you someideas and some recommendations,
(01:21):
solutions to help you change thetrajectory of where you're
headed.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, man, it was.
You may actually be in arelationship right now and you
starting to feel or sensetension.
There might be some thingsright now in your marriage that
you're like man, I don't know ifI can live with this.
Or maybe you're even datingright now and this might
resonate with you where you'relike man, I'm dating this person
, but there's some things aboutthis guy or some things about
this girl that I just can'tstand and deep down inside you
(01:47):
know you can't live with it.
So we're going to talk aboutsome red flags, some indicators,
but we're going to share reallyour story, some things that we
gone through, what weencountered when we felt, man,
are we about to get a divorceright now?
And so if this topic todayyou're excited about it, hit.
So if this topic today you'reexcited about it, hit that like,
hit that thumbs up, hit thatlittle heart, too, as well.
(02:08):
If you're watching this onApple, on Spotify, shout out to
all of our let's Dig crewmembers.
You guys already know why weare here.
We are here to help you grow adeeper relationship with God,
others and yourself.
So if you're ready, let's dig.
All right, let's dig.
You know that year wasinteresting, so this was back in
2020.
Um, the wall started closing inon us.
(02:29):
So you know, at that pointwe've been married for 10 years
and um I there were some smallthings about about us that
literally started to rise up tothe surface.
There were like little um jabsthat we would make at each other
early on in our marriage thatwe would just brush off, but we
would carry on like you wouldsay this line.
(02:50):
Every time we would argue,you'd say something like well,
maybe you married the wrongperson.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I did say that.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I think that's a phrase that people say in
marriage sometimes when you'refighting.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I felt like you were the right person for me, you
were the best person for me.
You were the best person for me, but it didn't.
I didn't feel worthy and Ididn't have the identity that I
do now to say that, no, I am thebest person for you.
So in those moments of tensionand argument I'd be like, well,
maybe you just married the wrongperson.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I never doubted it for myself, I doubted it for you
yeah, it's interesting becauseI think you started saying that
early on in our marriage, whenwe year one and two, three, when
we get into some really uglyfights, yes, and you say that
comment maybe you married thewrong person, yeah, and here we
are 10 years later at this pointwhere we're looking at the year
that we're actually consideringa divorce.
(03:41):
Yeah, all I can hear is 10years of you saying you married
the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's crazy.
It like stuck to you.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It stuck with me because I would actually
convince myself that that wasthe truth.
Maybe she was the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
All because I put that idea in your head, because
I threw that out there, becauseI let those words come out of my
mouth to penetrate your mindand your heart, for you to
actually start considering it inthose rough seasons.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I think what also, what also caused damage with a
phrase like that is, eventhroughout the years, I would
meditate on it and anytime youdid things that I didn't like or
there were characteristicsabout you that I wish were
different, Right, and obviouslyI could have made the change in
my.
I could have made the change inmyself.
But why make the change inmyself when my wife was telling
(04:31):
me she's the wrong person?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And listen y'all, a lot of it is uh, it's a trend of
uh, of a phrase, of a type ofwife and mom and it's called a
type B mom.
That's me, y'all.
Like, I am not type A, I am notclean and organized, I am not
structured, and that wasliterally a lot of the tension,
Like I don't want to brush over,it was literally practical
(04:55):
things of yes, I have a pile ofclothes in my bedroom every week
.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And in your car.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't have a pile of clothes in my car Are we
talking now or then?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Even then I didn't and in your bathroom Listen and
on the bed and on the chairwhile I was trying to sit.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
There is a pile on the chair.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I'm trying to sit here.
Well, my clothes are sittingthere.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I'm trying to tell the people All right, go ahead.
That it was very practicalthings.
It wasn't deep like religiousbeliefs that we didn't see eye
to eye.
It wasn't like lifestylechoices.
It was literally just likeDanny Lee isms that were
conflicting with Pierre isms.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, it's living together.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, it's blending your life together.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
It's blending your life together.
It's choices, and I think, too,like also when we first started
dating and got engaged, wewould fantasize and dream about
things that we wanted to be foreach other, and I wonder if
there were things that like viceversa, that you, that you would
want from me, like, for example, you like, for example, your
(06:02):
love language, right Like one ofyour main love languages is
touch, and when we first gottogether, like I, I'm just not a
toucher.
Right Right, don't touch me,right Right.
Only person that could touch meis Jesus you know what I mean.
And the Holy Spirit.
You're like bro, why are you sochurchy?
He touched me, oh, he touchedme.
(06:24):
And now he touched me.
Who touched me?
He touched me.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Why are you still going?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But I'm like yo, why are you touching me though?
So, but I remember you justlike touching, you like cuddling
, you like doing these things,and I remember thinking like man
, this girl, man, she like apuppy right now, A little tiny
little puppy.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And I would tell myself that yeah, yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, I'd come home and we'dfantasize to come home and we'd
have long hugs and like we'dtalk about it, but we never
really like confronted, we neverreally like, really like,
really faced it.
And years down our marriage Iwould just stop because it
wasn't me by nature and you heldon to that deep down.
Vice versa, there are thingsthat I wanted from you that we
(07:07):
would entertain each other.
We just dream about things likethat.
So I think in the dating stagetoo, there's people that causes
damage to their relationship bytalking about the things that
they want from each otherwithout actual action steps and
years down the road where thosethings don't get fulfilled, it's
be like well, you always saidyou were going to be that for me
, Just empty promises.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
After years and years and you're like I just thought
you'd grow out of that.
I thought you would grow up.
I thought you would learn how tobe more you know, responsible
for your time or responsiblewith your money, Like you have
these things that when you meetthem as a dating couple, you
give a lot of grace because loveis blind and oh, it's fine.
He doesn't really have anymoney, but it's fine.
But then as you start to builda life together, you have
(07:49):
requirements from each otherthat are needed to build a life
together and if you don't followthrough in what you said,
you're going to do like you'regoing to have major problems
down the road.
So it's seeing those needs fromeach other and verbalizing
those expectations.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
That year, when we talked aboutman getting a divorce, I
remember there were things likeeven touching was a thing that
we at this point, didn't wantanymore.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Boy, if you touch me one time in the bed with your
feet, I'm going to come out ofthis bed and I'm such a toucher.
But in that season I, the Icould not be far enough from you
and it's, it's heartbreaking tothink back to that season and
it being so, um, different frommy personality and from who I am
(08:40):
when I'm in a healthy place andwhen we're in a healthy place.
That is not my nature at all.
My nature is very touchy.
I want that comfort.
I enjoy that.
That is one of my biggest lovelanguages.
And so to think back of like,don't touch me, I'm fine.
Um, another part of it was justbeing very like, um, I was fine
(09:01):
with the anger and I was finewith the distance between us.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, I'm fine.
Is an indicator that can, ifnot dealt with, can, lead to
divorce or lead to separation orlead to a disconnect.
Some people might say wellPierre, divorce is probably
extreme, ok, let's start atlevel one.
It might lead to a disconnect.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, I was very fine with the disconnect.
I was very fine with you, doyou?
I'll do me and we'll be fineLike and I again, both of these
uh topics and points of ourrelationship were very out of
character for me.
I'm not like that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
That's so interesting, becausesaying I'm fine is actually a
lie.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I mean even even things like this.
We were, we'd be sitting downtogether and one of us would say
what are you thinking about?
To say nothing?
That's a lie.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
We do that all the time, guys, so in our
relationship and are actually inour family.
When there is silence uh, youstarted it actually when we were
dating, I think but he wouldalways say what are you thinking
about?
And we even use it now with ourkids, like when they're really
quiet, we'll say what are youthinking about?
Um, and it just opens thatopportunity to actually say
(10:15):
where is your headspace, what isyour mind spending time on, and
it gives a very good open doorto collect all my thoughts, my
dreams, my vision, everythingthat I saw and felt at night.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And the things that God is putting on my heart.
So I'm actually always thinkingabout something, and it's not
heavy things, it's not like man.
That guy is heavy burdened withhis thoughts.
No, it's just.
I'm just thinking about smallthings.
I'm checking things off my list, right, you know even small
things.
That's like, hey, I need tofinish thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
That's crazy to me.
You'll be like, oh yeah, I'mgoing to think about that
tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
He'll set times.
I haven't thought about it yet.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
To think about something.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You're like no, let's think about it.
Right now I just I can't whatI'm thinking about because I'm
going to talk to you about it, Iheard it, I heard it, the
neighbors heard it.
The neighbors heard it, theenemy heard it, I'm on a roll.
But so I started that becauseit was like I know if someone
(11:27):
asks me like what I'm thinkingabout, I could tell them that
year was a lot of like nothing.
Yeah you good, I'm fine, likewe got content with just being
fine.
I think those are indicatorsthat somebody or a couple is on
the verge on on like they're onthe journey to a disconnect, to
separation and even a divorce.
(11:49):
That year we felt that you knowwhat I'm saying, for sure, I
think.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Another thing I remember back then was that
there were no conversations,topics, questions that were safe
, like I could not just ask youabout what are you doing tonight
, or what's your plans fortomorrow, or what do you have on
your schedule, or did you pickthat up from the store or did
you go do that I?
(12:14):
there was nothing that I couldsay to you that I knew.
No, that won't end in anargument.
It felt like everything couldbe an argument If I asked you if
you brush your teeth thismorning.
I felt like it could be anargument.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
You ever play that game, minesweeper.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yes, that's literally what it felt like, because no
one knows how to actually playthe game.
You just hit the buttonsrandomly and then it's a bomb.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
There's no rhyme or reason to the game, right.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I mean, I was pretty good at it.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But I was stupid.
Anyways, anyways but yes,that's what it felt like, of
like I could ask him what hewants for lunch tomorrow or
today, and it may end up in abomb.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Why I got to pick what we eat for lunch tomorrow.
It it was just like what it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
It was honestly.
It was so draining and sostressful to overthink, to like
be nervous, to bring up a topicor approach something, or we got
to figure this out, we have tomake a decision together, like.
I hated that feeling of like,oh, here we are, we're gonna
fight again.
That's crazy.
It was terrible that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Um, let me pause real quick.
I want to hear what you guysthink like.
What are you guys going throughright now for those that are in
marriages, for those that are,let's say, you're dating, you're
dating somebody and there'ssome indicators, there's some
signs, there's some things thatyou're just like man.
This doesn't feel right Because, at the end of the day, we all
have choices to make.
Right, you may have been like,you may have picked someone to
(13:34):
be your wife, to be your husband, and you feel like man.
Did I make a wrong choice?
Perhaps, but there's still waysto reconcile.
There's still ways to restore.
Both parties need to make adecision because, at the end of
the day, man, we are alwaysmaking decisions.
You have to decide whether yougo left or whether you go right.
So, if your partner, you'resaying I picked the wrong
partner, maybe, but you canactually still honor that
(14:02):
relationship by both you guys.
Come into agreement and makenew decisions together.
But I want to hear like fromyou guys, like, like, obviously,
write us back.
Comment.
If you guys are even liking thisconversation, like, hit that,
like, um, share this.
Send this to somebody right nowthat you feel like needs to
hear this.
Send this to your partner Onlyif your partner has come to
agreement where they're like hey, we want to talk about this, we
want to work this out, but atthe end of the day, both people
have to make a decision.
(14:22):
Here we are again with thedecision to stay in the ring,
like you can't fight somebodythat's out of the ring.
You can't fight someone thatsaid, no, I don't want to go to
therapy, no, I actually I don'twant to talk.
Right, that was a year where weboth was like we would hash it
out.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
We would argue, and we?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
didn't like that feeling of just being fine, I
mean even our sex life, whichwas crazy.
I'm gonna say this right nowI'm not gonna say nothing while
relax relax.
Come on, I've been purified,all right.
I've been washed from theinside, okay, right.
What I'm saying is our sex lifeactually didn't change.
We was actually still havinggood sex that year.
(15:00):
But I'm just gonna put this outthere it's because your boy was
still initiating.
Because us guys we see sexdifferently.
That's true, right.
I'm not saying I'm not sayingit was healthy, right, right it
was still present.
Because there were times whereactually I had to repent,
because I'm going to say thisright now on recording you
(15:22):
weren't always the one on mymind Dang.
Sometimes there was nothing onmy mind.
Sometimes someone else mighthave triggered my thought that
day.
Right, sometimes it was like,oh, I see her, I see you, I see
you, I want to have sex with her.
No, it was other things thatwas getting in me that year.
(15:42):
Matter of fact, another thingthat also almost led to divorce
was I was hanging out withpeople that was divorced.
I was hanging out people thatwas having divorce parties,
people that was celebratingdivorce.
So after spending so much timewith people like that and then
seeing other things, other women, all these other things that
triggered my mind, I'd come homeand say, all right, we, we, I
still wanted to have sex.
(16:02):
So ultimately, it wasn'thealthy, it was all unhealthy,
it was toxic, it was dysfunction, it wasn't pure.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
It wasn't what God intended it to be.
But I think that's a really bigpoint of like who are you
hanging around?
Like who are your people andwhat are they doing?
What does their life look like?
Because who you run with is whoyou become, and if you're
running around with a bunch ofdivorcee people, you're going to
become divorced.
If you're running around withcheaters, you're going to become
(16:33):
a cheater, because your friendsare telling you it's fine, it's
not that big of a deal, oh, Ididn't want to do it, but I
ended up doing it.
Like they're going to help youjustify everything that you do.
Like I want to be around peoplethat actually make me want to
be a better person.
I want to be around people thathelp me grow and become all
that God's called me to be, notto justify my sin or make sin or
(16:56):
make me comfortable in it.
I want to be around someone whomakes me uncomfortable in my
sin and that I can't sit hereand stay the same.
I think another thing that Ireally want to talk about is
like in a marriage and it wasn'tnecessarily for ours, but it
became a feeling that I had butit's that constant criticism,
(17:19):
Like when it comes from onepartner or another.
I don't think you intentionallyconstantly criticize me, but
because we were in an unhealthyplace, it's actually all I heard
and it made me like have lackof confidence, lack of
self-esteem.
I didn't trust myself inanything that I was doing
because all I thought was thatyou were just going to criticize
(17:41):
me and I know that wasn't yourintention, but it it plays a
part when our, when our bond ishealthy or unhealthy, and so in
those seasons when it wasunhealthy, all I heard, whether
you said it or not, but all Icould hear was criticism and I
know it's come that back way toyou as well, Like come back to
you in the sense of oh, you hearme is criticizing you.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, no, you were.
I don't think you were.
You actually weren'tcriticizing me you kept on
reminding me that maybe I hadthe wrong wife.
So, with that being said, letme critique you into the right
wife.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Dang, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
See the connection.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
It was all wrong.
It's all jacked up, yeah, andit's not, and so it wasn't.
You weren't criticizing me,right, it was me critiquing you.
That's crazy.
You were making me think maybeyou were the wrong wife.
So it was like, well, how do Imake you the right wife?
Which it was all wrong.
Yeah Right, you know it's crazyman just to really think about
it and process it like what thatyear was like the walls were
(18:40):
closing in on us.
There's a lot of things thatled us to that point.
You know.
Even porn played a role in that, because I wasn't set free from
porn that year yet.
So it's just little things.
Here and there it was.
Somebody said well, that was asmall addiction, small, big,
(19:04):
large it was.
Was I able to function?
Most men struggle with this andthey all have different issues.
Some of them are like man, Ican't stop, I all, I do,
everything I do.
I have two phones, I'm hiding,I'm secret every single day, or
others were probably more likeme can go several days without
ever looking at anything, right,sometimes weeks, and then one
week is one day, two days, threedays, and it's little things.
So watching porn hurtsmarriages, absolutely.
(19:26):
It hurts marriages because it'slike, oh, I'm looking at all
these girls here in this videoor in this thing or in this
picture.
You know there's all these typesof apps you.
You know Instagram is in yourface, right, and the algorithms,
right.
You know TikTok I had to getoff a TikTok group.
I'm like all these girlstwerking on here.
There was other apps likePinterest.
You see stuff on Pinterest.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
You see stuff on Tumblr.
I had never seen Pinterest looklike what I saw your Pinterest
look like like not intentionallyby you, but the the algorithm.
I'm on pinterest.
I didn't even know that stuffwas on pinterest.
Yeah, most women don't knowthat anything is on pinterest
like that.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
So that year it was all these little things, and so,
even when we were having sexthose nights, there was all
these other things throughoutthe day that triggered that,
that that initiated it, whichwas causing a separation, a
disconnect between you and I,because I was no longer pursuing
you that year Like our marriagewas.
(20:22):
It was challenged that year,man.
It really was, and I thinkanother thing that really hurt
us personally and we've talkedabout this other episodes was, I
think, getting married reallyyoung.
I think I wouldn't.
I wouldn't recommend anybody toget married like as as children
(20:43):
and when I say children I'm nottalking about, like you know,
12, 13.
I'm talking about like still inyour formative years, like 18,
19, 20, 21.
People do it, we did it and wemade it through, but the odds,
the stats are against, becauseit's like I'm still a boy.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We're completely different people than who we
were at that age.
Yeah, Like it's crazy that weactually made it through.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, man, like you know you're dating a guy that
you don't even know his workethic yet.
Right, you know, luckily for me, you know you're like you're
dating a guy that you don't evenknow his work ethic yet you
know, luckily for me, you did inthat in that category.
But there's other things Ididn't know about myself, like
and then like not realizingthere are so many different
things.
That wasn't developed in us,even our culture understanding.
I didn't really value where Icame from.
(21:33):
Yeah, you didn't even like likefully own where you came from.
Yeah, you didn't even like, uh,like fully own where you came
from.
Right, you was constantlytrying to take on new cultures
and just adopt wherever you were.
You became that.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I just yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And then in the middle, five years, in like five
, six, seven, and then hit year10, here we are.
We're like man.
We're very different.
I never adopted anything aboutyour background.
You never adopted anythingabout my background.
So for us personally, like Ithink, our culture differences
man being an interracial coupleis hard.
Let me say that right now forpeople that just like are
(22:07):
interested in dating outside ofyour race.
I'm not going to tell you tonot do it, I'm just going to
tell you it's work, becausethere's some things that are
just different about you thatyou don't know until you bring
in kids into the picture, untilthe holidays come back around.
There are certain things, likecertain political things,
national holidays can betriggering.
There might be months of theyear that's important to one and
(22:30):
the other.
One could care less about it.
There's just a lot of thosedifferences.
That being an interracialcouple bringing in biracial kids
into this world, bro, thatthing hit us hard.
That evening.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, I think I always say and I've talked about
it in these other episodes onething that my mom did so well
with me when I was dating youand considering to marry you and
date you seriously and she saidlike, hey, marriage is hard no
matter what, but marriage with adifferent culture background is
even harder.
And she said you can choose todo this and we'll support you
(23:02):
and we love you and we thinkhe's a great guy and you know
like it's, we'll be here for you, but know that it is an extra
layer of challenge because ofthe culture differences.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, yeah.
What are some things that thatare like some clear, like a list
of like clear just indicators,flags, like things that if
you're experiencing this in yourrelationships, that beware that
you're, you're in danger likeyour relationship.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm just going to hit a few of them.
One lack of communication Likethis, like we talked about, like
everything was a fight, wecould not have communication.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Or in that same category.
We just actually weren'ttalking.
Yeah, there was just space,that's the last.
There was just avoidance.
We're just not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Another one is constant criticism, like tearing
each other down.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Always negative.
Um the other, another one,emotional or physical withdrawal
.
So like I think a big one isemotional withdrawal, like when
you feel like your partner isjust shut down or maybe you're
the partner that is just shutdown, like that is a huge
indicator that you are introuble.
Um, loss of intimacy, secretsand lies.
(24:22):
Secrets and lies, like whenthere is no honesty.
There's no way you can build ahealthy marriage with secrets
and lies and doubt and confusion.
I can't.
There's no trust there and Ican't trust you if you're always
secretive, if you're alwayslying, if you're hiding things
from me that is lying.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
It's crazy because it's actually one of the 10
commandments right.
Giving false testimonies, alying lip.
Matter of fact, it's actuallyone of the sins that God hates.
And so when it goes into amarriage, which is a covenant, a
union between man and a woman,and that comes inside of a
(25:03):
marriage, not only is itdishonoring to that person, but
it's dishonoring to God which iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
And honesty is literally like the oxygen to a
marriage it's the only thingthat keeps it alive.
It's the only thing that keepsit alive it's the only thing
that allows it to breathe andcontinue to have longevity is
honesty.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
We're here because of honesty.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, sure.
Another one is resentment, likecarrying on that resentment and
not forgiving, not letting goof something.
Like maybe you say like, oh, Iforgave them, but you're
actually not letting go of it.
You're holding it over theirhead, you're always constantly
reminding them of the time thatyou forgave them, like you're
(25:43):
just literally sitting in thatresentment and you're carrying
it with you.
There's no way you can buildhealthy relationships if you're
constantly in the past andsitting in that resentment
that's crazy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Holding keeping records of wrong, yeah, which is
crazy man.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
That is crazy.
Another one is um contentment,like signs of contentment of um
wait, it's not the right word.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I don't think that's the right word.
Well, I mean being content,like contentment, yeah Well, I
mean, like when you said thatthe first thing I thought was
just being fine, like being finejust as it is like you know,
like I would actually transitiona word which to like settling
okay, yes almost like settlingof like, whatever it is what it
(26:31):
is yeah, like being not even.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
We're just gonna be roommates're going to be
roommates or we're just going towait for the?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
kids to just grow up, or that's just.
Oh well, you know your mom, orwell you know, you start telling
that just to your kids.
Or, yup, that's just, or he'lljust never respect me, Settling
like, even though you never getan actual technical divorce,
there's a separation, and to me,like I would hate, I don't want
you to be my roommate.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Because if I'm looking for a roommate, there's
way much better.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I'm not it.
There's way much betterapplicants out there Way much
better Way much better, way muchbetter.
All right, you said it likethree times too, you doing 10
toes down on it.
There's way much betterroommates.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I know People, a podcaster, why does he talk like
that way?
Much better, way, much better.
Man, all right, relax there,there, there, there are better
candidates out there.
Yeah, if I'm looking for aroommate, right, I don't want, I
don't want a roommate out ofyou, like you were my life
partner.
Yeah, and we have decisionsthat we can honor.
(27:30):
And the thing is, I coulddecide to say you know what I
could step out of this switch.
First of all, let me go aheadand go on record.
It's the only time because wehave biblical backgrounds, the
only time divorce is actuallypermissible, it's when there is
infidelity, when there's sinthat got inside of the marriage.
(27:51):
That's where the Bible says youshould get a divorce of the
marriage.
That's where the bible says, oh, you should get a divorce.
So I'm not saying like yo, um,if you're getting a divorce just
because you don't like theperson, no, no, like that's.
That's not why you should,because you're not gonna like
the next person for sure.
If you're getting a divorcebecause, uh, they just can't get
their life together, well,that's subjective.
(28:13):
Get them a counselor, get thema planner, right, get them a
watch planner, a paper planner,where you lick your finger and
turn the pages.
I'm just saying is I made achoice and I chose you, and it
does break my heart.
Um, for those out there thatthat are listening right now, um
, you feel like there's no hope.
Yeah, you are listening to thisbecause you saw the title and
(28:34):
you're like man, I'm with apartner that I chose and they're
not choosing me anymore, andthat's tough and we'd love to
honestly just pray with you guys.
We'd love to hear from you.
So, if that is, you honestlyseriously hit us up, because we
know that feeling of being rightthere on the line of making a
(28:54):
decision Should I choose you ornot?
Some things that we did was wedid pray, we did seek God, we
trusted God.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And, to be honest with you, most of that was on
our own and not together,because we were not in alignment
in that same point.
But you sought God and I soughtGod, and then that was a major
contributor to how we got backtogether.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So the biggest advice that I can say for those who
sought God in pursuing yoursignificant other is seek God
when your significant other isdrifting.
Oftentimes we seek God whenit's time to make a decision and
then we leave them out on theback end of it.
So if you prayed about yourmarriage, if you prayed about
(29:40):
your relationship, if you soughtGod on this, like, keep seeking
him, like put it in God's handand let him take over.
So that's what I really justwant to encourage you guys,
because that's what we did.
And then we got therapy.
We got therapy.
Get yourself some therapy.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
That's what we did, and then we got therapy.
We got therapy.
Get yourself some therapy.
The conversations that wetalked about earlier of like we
would talk for hours and hoursand hours just like fighting and
trying to figure it out, Like Iremember so vividly saying, I
think we've talked ourself intoa hole that we cannot get
ourselves out of Because it justnever felt like it got better,
(30:14):
it never felt like we weregetting anywhere and we were
just having these deepconversations that were very
hard, heartbreaking, frustrating, irritating.
We were getting so mad at eachother because we were both just
not hearing each other and Isaid I don't think we can get
ourselves out of this.
And God blessed us with themost wonderful, like faith,
(30:35):
faith, Bible-believing therapistthat truly, truly walked us
through that process.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yeah, so that's why we say we're here to help you
guys grow a deep relationshipwith God, others and yourself.
Because if you can justrecognize what God sees in you,
that's you loving yourself, yourecognizing who God is.
He's the creator, he's theauthor, he's the one that wrote
your story.
Seek the person who wrote yourstory.
(31:00):
Seek the person who created you.
Right.
A lot of times we're trying tofind validity in all these other
people, but actually the onlyperson that we should actually
find our value in is the onethat made us.
He made you with value, madeyou with purpose already and
relationship with others.
That matters because ourtherapist came in clutch.
He knew exactly our personalitytypes.
He knew what books to give usto keep us together.
So, with God plus with the helpof man, like, we're here today,
(31:23):
we're strong, we're in love, welove our family, we love our
lives.
We threw the towel in on thispodcast because we didn't
believe in ourselves anymore.
Because of the grace of God andthe help of man, we're here
today.
So if you guys need help, like,reach out, we'd love to pray
with you, we'd love to partnerwith you.
(31:43):
Like, how can we help you, howcan we support you in this
season?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
So, yeah, that's good .
I'm grateful and I'm I'mthankful for an opportunity to
sit here on this podcast and totell of all that God has done
for us, because that was part ofthe reason for us to say no,
let's do this again, Because westopped when we were going into
this dark season and then, whenGod brought us completely
through it and it had had sometime and it had had some years,
(32:08):
we're like man.
God has been so good to us andhe's healed us to be better than
we ever thought it could beagain or ever was before, and we
knew like we can't not tell ofGod's goodness and we cannot
keep this to ourselves that hereally brought us from the point
of like, well, I'll go here andyou'll go there, and you can
have the kids and I'll take thecar, and how am I going to make
(32:31):
money?
Like all the down to the nittygritties of like actual steps
taken to I guess this is notgonna work out for our marriage.
What do I do next To now beinghere and being like, look what
the Lord has done.
Like he has truly done a miraclein our marriage and it would be
a shame for us to not tell ofGod's goodness and God's grace.
(32:51):
So that's why we're here today.
Y'all is to encourage you andto say, hey, these are the
things we saw in our marriageand in our experience, and if
you're seeing them, here aresome steps and here are some
things that you can do to helpavoid the divorce.
But you can seek the Lord, youcan seek counsel with a
therapist or with your pastor orsomeone that you trust and that
(33:12):
you look to, or you can reachout to us and that we would love
to pray for you and we wouldlove to put resources in your
hand or connect you with someonethat can help you walk through
those next steps for yourmarriage and for your life.
Yeah, so that's it.
We love y'all, we're prayingfor you and we hope that this
encouraged you and we will seeyou next time.
Let's dig.
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