January 23, 2024 • 36 mins
Have you ever felt like you and your spouse were nothing more than well-acquainted roommates, passing by each other with a dead "good morning"? Our marriage teetered on that precarious edge, and we're laying it all bare—the raw, uncut journey of recognizing our disconnection and the healing that Jesus and therapy brought into our lives.
Breaking down the facades we crafted from our days in Bible college and our roles in a church, we faced the painful but task of reassessing who we were as individuals and as a couple. This episode gives voice to the struggle against depression and the daunting questions about faith and compatibility that had us considering divorce. We confront the fear that maybe we weren't the perfect match we once believed. We unravel this narrative not just for ourselves, but for anyone who has ever wondered if their partnership could—or even should—survive the trials of life.
Ending on a note of hope and solidarity, we extend an invitation to stay connected, to support one another, and to embrace the continuous journey of growth and love. Sharing how therapy opened our eyes to the true meaning of being a couple, we encourage each listener to recognize the red flags in their relationships and to have the courage to seek help. Whether it's with us through our podcast or in your own circles, remember that reaching out is a sign of strength, and that together, we can keep moving forward.
Breaking down the facades we crafted from our days in Bible college and our roles in a church, we faced the painful but task of reassessing who we were as individuals and as a couple. This episode gives voice to the struggle against depression and the daunting questions about faith and compatibility that had us considering divorce. We confront the fear that maybe we weren't the perfect match we once believed. We unravel this narrative not just for ourselves, but for anyone who has ever wondered if their partnership could—or even should—survive the trials of life.
Ending on a note of hope and solidarity, we extend an invitation to stay connected, to support one another, and to embrace the continuous journey of growth and love. Sharing how therapy opened our eyes to the true meaning of being a couple, we encourage each listener to recognize the red flags in their relationships and to have the courage to seek help. Whether it's with us through our podcast or in your own circles, remember that reaching out is a sign of strength, and that together, we can keep moving forward.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up everybody?
Okay, so today's episode,today's topic, today's
conversation, the chat that wehave today is actually very
special.
It's dear to our heart.
It's actually four years in themaking.
This is something that wedidn't want to talk about, but
just before we started thisrecording right now, we were
praying and God put on my heart,letting us know that every
(00:21):
single situation that we've gonethrough it wasn't just for us.
We were restored, we receivedreconciliation in our marriage
and our relationship, but thisis for other people to be
restored in relationships, andso you know, this month actually
oh snap, this month makes it 15years since we've met each
(00:42):
other.
We met each other exactly 15years ago, right?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
2007.
Wait, it's a math.
We didn't plan, we knew eachother longer than one year for
marriage, because I'm I said wemet each other, are you know?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
but our wedding lady, are you listening, sir?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Our wedding anniversary is 14 in March.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We didn't meet each other, so 16 years why do I not
have a calendar or calculator onthis thing?
You have a calculator on youron your phone.
Yes, gosh, this is not whatyear did we meet?
2007.
All right, come on, let's speedthis up.
You know what I mean thealgorithm 17 years 17 years
since we've met each other.
(01:24):
That's crazy, right, and we'vebeen married for going on 14
years, and this is crazy.
So here's why we're having thisconversation today because the
year 2020 was a crazy year andwe almost threw in the towel and
we hit rock bottom not almosthit rock bottom, we hit rock
(01:45):
bottom, we hit it.
Our relationship was at theworst place that's ever been.
It felt like work.
You felt like a roommate, right, yeah, and towards that season,
we realized we needed therapyand, which is tough, because we
grew up in cultures where youdidn't talk about your marriage
to other people, right, and sowe didn't talk about it.
(02:07):
We left it alone until werealized everything caught up to
us and we went through therapy.
And so today's chats can bereally cool.
We want to share with you guyssigns that we recognize things,
that we went through, the stuffthat we saw in our relationship,
that we realized that thesewere signs and indicators many
years before that we neededtherapy and, thank God, by his
(02:30):
grace and his love and his mercy, he had his hand over us and he
restored us, and so we're goingto talk a little bit.
So, if y'all ready, let's digOkay so 2020,?
right, it was the best of timesand it was the worst of times.
Is that how you start stories?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Anyways, listen, listen.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I'm just going to say this it was the worst time in
our relationship, worst time wewere done.
I was just reading through myjournal and some of the things
that I was writing around thattime and it breaks my heart to
realize like we went throughsome tough times.
Matter of fact, I'll read a logright now In my journal.
I'm writing this the month ofMarch 2020.
(03:07):
And I talk about how we were inquarantine.
Where's two weeks, which I knowwe never really quarantine, but
anyways, that's a whole anothertopic for another day.
This pandemic's going on.
Everything is shut down Our thedoor, the walls are closing in
on us, everything is closed,churches are closed,
unemployment at skyrocketed, allthis stuff.
But I wrote, but God is stillgood.
(03:27):
I wrote Jordan is home school.
Now we have no idea when schoolwill open again.
My travel dates, all that stuffis postponed.
I think I might have caught thecold, the COVID-19 few weeks
ago, several weeks ago, and Iwas like, oh well, the whole
world is resetting all thisstuff.
But I wrote this.
I said Danny Lee and I, though,have been fighting so much, I'm
(03:51):
scared because I feel like I'mgetting to the point where I'm
just done, not sure what to do.
I think we need counseling now.
I never told you that.
I wrote that.
Huh, no, how's that make youfeel hearing that?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
First of all, I'm just going to say this is
definitely going to be anepisode that I'm going to cry on
, just because it is so.
It is so personal, right, it'sus definitely saying, hey, this
was the worst part of ourmarriage.
But we know it's just like yousaid at the beginning, like it
wasn't just for us and seeinghow God can restore something.
This is for someone else outthere, and so hearing that it is
(04:33):
hard, but I know that we werethere, I'm.
That doesn't surprise me thatyou thought that we both got to
a point where it was almost likewe were living in like a
minefield where there were justbombs.
I think it's called a minefield, I don't know Minefield, yeah
Right, a minefield like wherethere's like secret bombs all
(04:56):
over and, depending on where youtouch, everything blows up.
Yeah, that's what I was alludingto, but it felt like that in
our house.
Mind you, it is COVID, it iseverybody staying home, but
between you and I it felt likethis dance of at any point a
bomb could go off, andoftentimes it did.
(05:18):
It could be a small question ofwhat we were going to do for
dinner, but it could turn into amassive argument it was.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
It got to the point where, like yeah, you would ask
me, what are we going to havefor dinner?
And I'd be like, why have tomake all the decisions?
Like, why is it up to me?
Like you decide food's on yourmind, You're the one that's
thinking about food.
That is so true.
It was everything was just we.
We were triggered by so manydifferent things.
And you know what, like Irealized as we begin to dig that
year, we realized that ourfoundation, everything that we
(05:49):
did, everything that we started,was just broken.
It didn't make sense.
The things that we thought ahealthy marriage should be and
what it should look like, itjust it wasn't right, it wasn't
real.
It was it, it it was.
You know, I like to use theword like pretentious, like we
were acting like it wassomething great, but deep down
inside we really knew like wait,this is this, this, this, this
(06:10):
is not real, it's not right.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I do think a lot of it, too, was we met in Bible
college.
We had this feeling of acalling on our life, and as long
as we'd been together, you hadworked for a church, and 2019
was the first year you were onstaff at a church.
Yeah and so it's, I remember itstarting to kind of unravel.
(06:35):
Like that was the first timethat as our marriage, we were in
this role of you serve it, youworking at a church full-time,
and I was right alongside you,and so there was that
deconstruction of that as well,and I remember Things like you
make a decision, danny Lee, butI kind of always took the
(06:55):
backseat to your decisions andit was my choice.
It wasn't you being that likedominating person of like I make
all the decisions on the man,it was me.
That like that was my naturaltendency of Trusting your
choices and being like well,what do you want to do?
What?
Like it was just how I thoughta good, godly Christian woman
served her husband and and inthat I I lost my voice and in
(07:19):
that I lost my ability to makeany decision for anything.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And I'll be honest with you, babe, that was a time
in our in my life that I was onthe back end of Depression,
right, you know for those of youthat they used to keep up with
us.
You know, in our last season,we dropped one of the episodes.
I wish we could say it'sepisode number this.
I don't know the number, so,but I remember when I came to
(07:44):
you saying like I think I'mdepressed.
Yeah, you know, there's anepisode that we have is titled
that, and I talk about thescience and all the things that
I felt in that season where Ifelt like I think I'm depressed
and it was a crazy time, y'all,and because of that I was
Deconstructing every singlething about me, yeah, every
single thing that I ever thoughtabout anything, even about my
(08:07):
faith.
I thought about God, how Ithought about my wife, I thought
about parenting, like everysingle thing.
I'm just like everything and,and that was the year that I
wanted out of all of it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And I remember you saying to me like babe, those
things that we talked about whenwe thought we wanted, I don't
want it, I don't want any ofthat.
And it Really really shook meto my core because for me,
that's what I signed up for,like that's what we've dreamt of
our Like for my whole life.
And ever since I met you, likeno, no, this is, this is the
(08:41):
plan that I signed up for.
And now you're telling me Iactually don't want any of that.
And so I remember telling youlike I Felt like you were
separating from me, like I feltlike we had built this marriage
of ten years, because at thispoint when all this was
happening, we were at ten yearsand I felt like we had built
(09:01):
this marriage of ten years, forthat were one, yeah, and that
felt like, uh, no, I don't wantyou to be one with me, I want
you to be your own self your ownself and I would fight that.
I'd be like how can I be myselfwhen we're marriage and marriage
is supposed to be about onelike it was so Frustrating
because I just couldn'tcomprehend what you were trying
(09:21):
to get.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know what it was like now that I'm going back, I
remember, because I was goingthrough a full deconstruction of
myself and I wasn't satisfiedwith where I was, with my career
and the things that I wanted tosee done in my life.
And I remember thinking, um,it's Danny Lee's fault, it's
because she's not like this,this bad boss, and she's not the
(09:45):
one running all my admins anddoing everything for me, and
that's why I'm not successful.
And that's when we startedrealizing, like man, like, were
we the right people for eachother?
Yeah, we made a question, all ofthat remember you made a
comment saying, like sometimes Ifeel like you married the wrong
person.
And, lady, I'm gonna tell youthis right now.
You told me that during thewrong time in my life, because I
(10:06):
was thinking like maybe you'reright.
Remember, I like, remember, Iused to say I was like, if you
say that long enough, I actuallymight be convinced.
And I started getting convinced, like maybe you're right, maybe
I did marry the wrong personwhich to throw it back.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I actually said that the very first year we were
married.
Yeah and then I realized howmuch gravity that that question
had to you.
More than like it had more, ithad weight to me.
But I just said it out offrustration and anger and,
honestly, a lot of insecurities.
But then for it to come backand find out, you told me that
(10:39):
was the first year we're married.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, and you told me how much it really got into
your head and how much youreally had to think about yeah,
Because what happened was, everytime there was times in our
life, in seasons where I feltvulnerable or felt Distracted,
right, I can hear Danny Leesaying like, well, maybe she's
the wrong person, maybe she'snot the right person, right, and
that year was the year that Imean, the straw broke the
(11:02):
camel's back.
That was the year, just like youknow what, maybe you're right,
you know, and I remember usthinking about that.
And for me to read this rightnow in my journal, to read, like
I straight up wrote I'm a row,I'm getting to the point where
I'm just done, sometimes, notsure what to do.
I think I need Counseling, oractually I think we need
(11:24):
counseling, and that's what wewanted to kind of just talk
about today y'all, because thatwas a, that was a turning point
in in our lives.
Like you know, I talked aboutthis in one of our last episodes
.
Like you know, getting in thering and staying in the fight,
yeah, and like I realized, likeyou know and I've been saying
this I had this new thought,this new process of thinking
(11:44):
when it comes to marriage isLike I'm not fighting with you
anymore, I'm fighting for you.
Yeah and that's how I saw it forme to say, like I think we need
counseling, is this fight thatwe're doing right here?
It's not with each other.
You know, there's been a pointin time where I started I had to
start telling I was like, babe,like I'm not against you, I'm
(12:06):
literally on your side, right,but there's times like you
always felt like I was comingfor you, right, right, and there
are times when I was in on inan unhealthy place, I would
weaponize my strings and that'swhat I wanted to even encourage
people.
Man, like, we all have beengiven gifts, we all have special
skills, right, personalitytypes that God has given to us,
and when you're in a good place,you use it as a strength.
(12:28):
You use it as a tool to edifyand build people.
But when you're weak, whenyou're broken, it becomes a
weapon for you.
It becomes a weapon like, ifyou're a war, right and you know
how to woo and you're in a goodplace, you use it and it builds
people up.
But if you're in a bad place,you use your words, and your
words could be a knife forpeople right, or it could be
(12:48):
blowing smoke or manipulative,manipulative.
So for me, I'm a type of personthat, where I'm very
authoritative, I could come intoa room and I could really come
and demand and honestly stepinto leadership role and really
help things get done Right.
So when I'm in a healthy place,I have no motives.
I have no motives.
My agenda is just for all of usto win right.
If I'm in an unhealthy place, myagenda is to to is bodies all
(13:11):
over the place bulldozing bloodeverywhere, and I make it on top
and yeah, and so that's whatwould happen in our marriage
when I was in an unhealthy place, like I'd come in like a strong
bulldozer, it's true, with someNarcissistic behaviors which
most men all men always had todeal with.
That constantly, every singleday, and this is crazy.
Like you know, I'm alwayslooking for opportunities daily
(13:34):
to humble myself, and I learnedhow to do that in our marriage.
The moment I realized we neededcounseling was the moment I
said, pierre, everything thatyou're passionate about,
everything that you stand proudand say this is who I am, I am,
let it go.
That was the year, just like Idon't know what to do, which is
(13:56):
tough, because I'm thepersonality that always knows
what to do.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You always know what to do and you always have an
answer.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Our marriage was the first thing, babe, like in my
life, where I was just like Ijust read it to you, I was like
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, and I will say, like you know, every marriage
goes through like ebbs and flows, right, it goes through seasons
where it's really good andthere are seasons where it's not
so good.
I mean, even with us movingmultiple times throughout our
marriage.
You know, every time we moved,those were always hard seasons
because we were readjusting tothe new place.
There was money was tight, kidswere changing, Like those in
(14:30):
and out seasons were alwayschallenging, but this one felt
different.
This one was wait a minute, wejust cannot connect on anything
at any time and it's been toolong now.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And like processing this time, going back a couple
of years, I realized that someof these things, like some of
these signs, these triggers,these indicators, we recognized
them years before.
Yeah, you know, like yourcomment that you said I think
you made the wrong person.
You said it many years beforethat, nine, eight years before
that, right, but I neveraddressed it.
(15:08):
Then I never said why do youkeep saying that?
We never talk, we let it pileup.
And that's what we wanted toeven encourage everybody, man,
like don't wait till somethingis broken, don't wait till
something is hurting, don't waittill pain, don't wait till you
hear, feel a pinch in your backto go get it looked at.
We heard some things, we sawsome things.
(15:29):
There were some triggers,things that indicated like
hazardous situations.
And we're kind of just let lifehappen.
Kids came right, Jobs, moneymoves, all these distractions,
all these things that happen inour life that allowed us to
prolong, to push it off right.
It's like we hear all the timepeople who've been married for
(15:50):
30, 40, 50 years and they getdivorced.
What happened after 40, 40, 50years?
They were distracted by takingcare of the kids, yep, and to
all, the kids left the house.
You realized like oh man, Ithink.
I hate you, I don't even likethis person in my house, but
you're distracted.
All these things happen, and sofor us, that was the year where
(16:10):
we realized, like man, I don'tlike the way this feels, I don't
want a roommate.
I remember telling you I'm likeI don't want a roommate.
I'm not gonna stain this ifwe're not gonna work this out
Like you.
Remember those conversations?
I do.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And I think too, even like learning, that was the
first time either one of us haddone therapy We'd never done
personal therapy like in our ownlives or, before we met, we did
a really quick, like four weektherapy for before we got
married.
Right well, and that's becauseit's very minimal.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That's because us, as speaking of that word, us, as
actually us, as millennials,right, we were the first ones to
actually introduce andnormalize therapy Therapy.
Right, because we were alwaystaught like, if you go talking
to somebody and you need help,you're broken, or you're cuckoo,
or you're crazy, or you'rebroken.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Also disclaimer and like highlight underscore,
italicize that what it's called.
Do all the things that I feelvery strongly that it is
important that if you are abeliever and you are looking for
a therapist, a counselor,whatever, I would never allow
anyone to speak into my life ifthey are also not a believer.
(17:23):
And I felt very strongly like,as we were looking for a
therapist, that it had to be abeliever.
And our therapist, like shoutout to Steve I've sent his page
to so many people because he wasliterally a God sent.
He had so many things in commonwith you.
He had.
His wife had things in commonwith me which we never even met
(17:43):
her, but just hearing abouttheir relationship, their
dynamic, steve taught us a lotof things in those sessions and
so I believe that that was a keypoint in when you are looking
for someone, when you're lookingfor a therapist like I'm not
gonna go sit down with atherapist and allow them to talk
me out of my marriage that Iknow God's called me to.
(18:04):
But if it's a person who has abelief in God and he knows, hey,
here are the factors that thisis a healthy relationship.
This is not, or you're indanger, like those are different
things, right, like to discussof getting out of a relationship
if there's abuse or whatever,but knowing that a godly
Christian counselor can sit herewith me and know like, hey,
(18:24):
this is where we can work onthis.
He recommended books for us andhe actually recommended a book
for me that didn't even haveanything to do with marriage.
It actually had to do with myrelationship with the Lord and
that I was searching out forother things and we could talk
about it in.
Like those, those were suchgood books, like life-changing
books.
So I just think, like, asyou're, if you are married, if
(18:48):
you are in a seriousrelationship and you have any
intention to go further intomarriage, or you're seeing signs
, or maybe you're not evenseeing signs and it's like
Pierre said of like, hey, gobefore you're sick, we'll go to
the gym to be healthy, not to beskinny, even though that's a
good side effect, not a goodside effect, a positive yeah,
(19:09):
yeah, anyways, but like, ifyou're looking for this, if
you're looking for a counselor,make sure they are Bible based,
make sure that they are someonethat you trust to speak into
your life and go from there.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, that's so good.
That's so good that youmentioned it.
Like for us as believers right,let us that believe in Jesus
you do not go to someone thatdoesn't share your belief To
counsel you, to give you advice,to give you thoughts.
It literally does not makesense.
The Bible says that we're notactually not even of this world,
so we don't.
The systems, the ways of theBible says, do not be Conformed
(19:42):
to the world.
Right, because the way they seethings, the way they comprehend
things, is not Equal to how wesee things.
And so for us connecting withSteve, that was massive, because
when we talked about beingspirit led, when we talked about
and we said terms like God, putit on Our heart, right, he knew
what we was talking about.
He wasn't saying like what'sGod?
(20:03):
Is God or maybe you're God?
I'm like you know, I mean someof y'all, y'all be listening to
people and don't make sense.
You're like, well, maybe hisenergy is not connected energy.
We're talking about energy,like you talking about.
You know you're trying tofigure out.
You know You're trying to waitfor the stars to line up.
You over here, trying to figureout.
You're following the moon eachnight.
You're like, well, you knowit's a full moon.
You know they say about fullmoons I actually don't know what
(20:24):
they say about full moons.
Right, stop watching Twilight.
So I like fine, fine peoplethat have the same mindset as
you to walk you through yourSituations, and that's what
Steve did for us.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
He really did, and then, even after we did therapy
with him, I ended up doing somepersonal therapy on my own.
Yeah, you knew, it was greatbecause then I could talk trash
about you.
But he knew Number one, he knewwho you were right because he
had worked with us.
And number two, he wasn't atherapist that was gonna say
yeah, danny Lee, you shouldprobably.
You know, maybe you need toseparate yourself, maybe you
(20:59):
need to, you know, put up someboundaries.
He never said those things thatcould have really really hurt
my marriage.
Because he knew number one I'mjust venting and number two, I'm
working through situations inmy own personal life that's
affecting my marriage.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
But that he knew now we're called to this marriage
and he knew I'm not gonna try toseparate that because the
moment we decided to get marriedbefore the Lord, married before
God and God's eyes, god honorsthat covenant and some of us,
some of y'all, y'all got marriedto people that you should never
got married to.
Okay, I get it, you made ahuman decision, but it's your
decision.
If you want to continuefighting for that person, right,
(21:35):
right, you might be Not a goodfit, and so I know I mean you
guys, I don't know you for me,say this before like I don't
believe in soul mates, my onlysoul mate is Jesus.
He's the one that satisfies mysoul right here on the earth.
Like I don't believe, likethere's one other person, right,
there are people that arebetter fits for me, all right,
there are people that are goodmatch, right, anyograms, right,
which we'll talk about that likelater on.
There are people that, if youlook at paper, you can look and
(21:56):
say, wow, this person,technically speaking, on paper,
is a good match for you.
But at the end of day, we're notsavages, right, we're not
animals.
We can talk and comprehend eachother.
That was the.
We realized, like man, I'm oilin your water or your oil, and I
want, we just was not mixingthat year.
Yeah, but here's the thing wemade a decision to say we're
(22:18):
gonna fight this through, we'regonna stay alongside each other
and learn listen, man, thebiggest machine that we have in
our bodies, it's our brain, andif we could psychologically
Understand listen, it was reallycool.
You know, we went to the Bible.
We saw, like, what the Biblesaid.
But there's times listen, Ibelieve theology and psychology
like they should workhand-in-hand and to sit down
(22:39):
with someone to say, hey, let'stalk about your temperaments.
Let's talk about yourpersonality type.
Let's talk about how you arewired.
Yes, we are spirit beings, weare led by the spirit and we
have the fruits of the spiritworking with us, but we also
have a soul where ourpersonality meets our characters
and, as other people, we maynot click well with.
(22:59):
That was a year, babe.
I love you, but we was notClicking and I was.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Here's another layer.
You can talk about yourchildhood and how that and makes
you react to certain situationsLike there's so many layers to
it and, at the end of the day,god is a God of choices.
He doesn't even force us toserve him.
That's mind-blowing to me.
But he's a God of choices andso if I chose you, I Believe he
is going to honor my choice towork this out.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, we're gonna have to work through it.
You, even if you made a goodchoice or a bad choice, but it's
a decision that we make say God, can you help us?
That was the year y'all wecried out and I said, lord, I
got on my knees.
Many times that year I said,lord, I don't know what to do.
I need you to do it.
And here's what.
Here's some signs andindicators.
Listen, and this is not just formarried people, right, this is
just for us in general,relationships in general.
(23:50):
Right, here's a sign that Iknew that, okay, we needed to
bring in a professional as athird party Right now, soon as I
owe you know, piaz, my boy, soI got you ever watch those shows
like where the husband and wife, like they go to therapy and
like it's like, and thetherapist, like you Could tell,
like he's siding with these,like mm-hmm.
Girl, I can't believe, why didyou?
(24:10):
You know me?
No, this was a third party.
This guy had no idea who he was.
Matter of fact, I told him someof the artists that I worked
with.
He's like, yep, that's great.
Okay you know, I mean, and sothird party, he had no interest,
he wasn't biased, he had nomotives, he, his goal was just
to help us.
Right, and some signs that werealized that, man, our
(24:30):
Relationship feels funny.
It was sounds like this likethe moment you feel like you're
about to Disagree, that you feellike the moment I disagree it's
gonna be a fight.
That's an indicator somethingis wrong.
Right, you don't feelcomfortable enough to bring up
something.
And that's what's happening us.
That Another sign was youdidn't want to hang out.
(24:51):
We didn't want to hang outsometimes with other people
because we had to fake how weliked each other.
Oh, my word y'all that's a signthat your relationship with this
other person Needs to be lookedat.
That's a sign you got to go tothe doctor, right?
If you don't like being in agroup setting because you know
you're gonna have to fake it,right?
You know you're gonna have toact like your boys with that guy
(25:13):
, which you really know you guysare bumping heads.
That's a sign.
That's an indicator Somethingis wrong with your relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Those were all indicators right where big ones,
yeah those like those are bigones.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Another big one was this one's a massive one is when
you were talking and I'm justover here Just like what's she
talking about?
Man rolling my eyes, I mean,she'll know she's talking about.
She know nothing about no war.
She'll know nothing aboutparenting.
She'll know life right.
Or.
While you're talking, in myhead I'm just discrediting it.
I have her buttocks for it.
(25:44):
I'm rolling my eyes.
I'm that.
Those are signs that somethingis wrong with this person you
are in relationship with.
This is not just for spouses.
This is for guys and girls thatare dating right.
This is for coworkers.
This is for leaders.
What?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
do you mean I'm going to stop you.
This does work forrelationships, if it's dating,
if it's engagement, if it'smarriage.
But if we're saying forcoworkers, if we're saying for
friends, I mean I'm not gonna goto therapy with my coworker.
So what would you tell thosepeople in those situations?
Like what would you give adviceto those points of like hey,
(26:22):
this is my friend of20-something years and we are
just not connecting.
Like what do you suggest?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
in those situations Like, for example, babe, we went
to therapy and when we feltlike we got to a place where we
were restored, you realized youstill had some things towards me
.
We didn't go to therapy, youjust went to therapy.
That's what I would say.
Like, if you're in arelationship with somebody right
, for example, if you have asibling, right, a coworker, a
parent, a boss, a leader, ateammate, someone in your life
(26:50):
that you just feel like there'sall these indicators, there's
these triggers, that every timethey talk or every time they
walk into the room right, everytime there's something in it
triggers you.
You don't go to them and say,hey, man, I think we need to go
to therapy.
Nah, you just need to go totherapy.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You need to pray about it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You need to find someone to honestly talk to,
that you can sit when they sayhey, man, I just have these
feelings towards these otherpeople.
At the end of the day, it hasnothing to do with them.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, it's actually you, it's still you.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
That's what I'm saying.
It's still you need to sit downwith someone and that therapist
can walk you through.
That's what the therapist hasbeen doing for you.
That's what they did for us.
Like he asked me, he's likePierre, why do you feel like
every single time you fell atsomething, you blame your wife?
It wasn't my wife.
That's the problem.
It's me, it's my perception,it's how I saw it.
(27:37):
That was the problem.
I'm reading this book right nowand it talks about the most
problems.
The problem is how you see theproblem.
Think about that.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I really need to think about that.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
The problem sometimes is not the problem.
The problem is how you see it.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
It's fair.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Chains.
The way you see it, the problemgoes away.
I thought that year you were myproblem, you weren't the one
for me to be with, so I neededto go away.
So you needed to go away.
I said I think I'm done, Ithink I need to find a better
fit.
I realized, babe, you weren'tthe problem.
The problem was how I saw you,how I saw you.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
The problem was you.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, how I saw you.
Exactly, the problem was me.
You see, to be honest, I stillhave a hard time saying it.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I know I'm like, but you need to say that the problem
was internally with you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But at the same time, the problem was how I saw it.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
But at the same, well , and what you were dealing with
internally, yeah, whatever yourfeelings were, you reflected
them to me, Like that it's myfault, like you deflected them,
but at the core, you weredealing with something inside of
you.
And then, simultaneously, I wasdealing with things with me, I
was dealing with my insecuritiesand I will say, like when
(28:54):
you're getting into thesetherapy sessions or when you're
getting into working and diggingin these relationships, like it
will expose your weaknesses, itwill expose your insecurities,
those things that will make youpop off or cry or drop a cuss
word or two.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Or three or four.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's not important, the number, the Lord is working
on my heart.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I will keep you calm, let's go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Go ahead.
You do keep me calm buthonestly those are always signs
to me.
Now that I have learned alittle bit more that those are
signs of a wound.
When I'm ready to pop off andjump at him and like lunge
across the room, I had torealize, oh, that's a wound.
Or today we were talking aboutsomething and I said some one
(29:41):
word in this conversation and itstarted to make me cry and I
realized that is a wound andsomething that hurts my heart.
So just knowing that thosethings, like when they get
exposed, it does hurt at first,but knowing that if you dig deep
enough and you get that rootout, like you can heal, you can
move past it so that when itcomes up again and it's
(30:01):
irritated, it won't be such areaction, it won't be so
explosive.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, yeah.
We can't just wait, y'all, forextreme or excruciating pain for
us to deal with something.
I had to get two root canalslast year and there were
indicators years before that forme to look at it and I made a
choice not to.
I had a cavity.
I saw a little black thingseveral years ago and I just
thought it'll go away andeventually it disappeared.
(30:29):
I didn't realize it was goingdown to the root until one day I
heard a noise, I heard a crack,I heard so many different.
I heard this weird sound,something like that.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
That is literally giving me the creeps right now.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And then what happened was I couldn't.
And then what I did was I stillignored it because the pains
went away again.
So I stopped eating on thisside, on this too, for two years
, no pain, painless.
So some of us are walkingaround.
We had indicators thatsomething needed to be looked at
.
You waited till there was pain.
(31:01):
You endured the pain.
Right, if you have pain in yourarm, you have pain in your tooth
, you have some type of pain.
What happens is you get used toit.
You matter of fact, what you dois you adjust.
So guess what I did?
I started eating on my rightside.
I still refuse to get thistooth looked at.
I got used to it and I'm likeoh, I realized I don't even eat
on that side anymore.
(31:21):
Who cares?
Eventually I had no pain, couldnot eat on the tooth.
I needed a root canal, waitedso long for the root canal, got
the root canal done, successful,it was great.
And now it's time to get acrown.
And they say now you need acrown lengthening because you
waited too long.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So I know that I hate the dentist with all my life.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Now we have to spend all this additional money to get
it done.
You guys know, my teeth isstill clean, though it's still
be looking right, still belooking right.
What I'm telling you is Iwaited too long.
Some of us are waiting too long.
There were small, subtleindicators that you can realize
in your relationships withpeople, with others.
You know I have, like ourpastor, you know I had wounds in
(32:04):
my last church that I was partof, and every time he would text
me and say, hey, let's talk.
It triggered me because Irealized all my last leaders,
every time they say let's talk.
I was in trouble and you knowwhat our pastor told us.
He said hey, just so you knowit's not me, it's you.
And I looked at him and saidyou're right, it's so true,
you're not doing anything wrong,right, it's me.
(32:24):
That every time I read thosetext messages I think I'm in
trouble and I realized it isstraight up, straight up me that
needs to be fixed.
It's your wound, it's my wound,right, it's my wound.
So I realized, man, that yearwas the year that so many signs
popped up.
We had so much pain, we hadaches, we weren't sleeping.
(32:47):
That's the most I've ever heardyou cry and we realized, like
man, we need to do somethingabout this, right?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Because we had tried a few times ourselves, like so
many times.
We were always those beingactive on our marriage, like
that's, I think, the biggesttakeaway of like we always cared
for our marriage, there wasn'tneglect in the sense of obvious
neglect.
We had hard conversations, wecared about our marriage and
(33:15):
being healthy and it just afterso many years it had caught up
to us and it was at the pointyou're right, I cried so much
that year and there were so manytimes where I just had to walk
away from you and so I think,like crying out for help is OK
and actually what will make thedifference in the health of your
(33:35):
marriage and saving yourmarriage or your relationship or
whatever that looks like.
I will say that we were talkingto a couple of few weeks ago
and they joked about how, like Ithink the wife said, hey, I
think we should go to therapy,and the husband was like, oh my
god, are you leaving me?
Like that was his initialreaction because when he heard
therapy, he thought divorce andit doesn't have to be that you
(34:00):
don't have to wait until you arebroken and until you are at
odds where you think that youcan't save it, to where you can
go to therapy, like go totherapy before you get to that
point.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah, do it, do it.
So that's our heart y'all.
We wanted to share it with youguys.
We have so many stories andsituations and things that's
happened throughout this seasonthat has strengthened us.
We love each other.
We're enjoying being with eachother.
We're enjoying our time witheach other.
We're not just roommates.
I'm enjoying going to bed withyou every single night.
(34:29):
I'm enjoying.
The other day I saw you was agroup of people even the kids
right were hyped to see you.
I saw you came, came up to you.
I get the kids every timepicked them up.
I'm like, hey, we're going togo see mommy, let's see if we
can see mommy, see mommy.
That's the way life should bewith others.
It should be enjoyed.
It should not be endured.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, and I am so grateful and I don't want to
finish this episode withoutsaying that it really is the
grace of God, it really is thepower of the Holy Spirit that
worked through our marriage,that worked through our
therapist, and that it tookevery ounce of me and it took
every ounce of you to allow theHoly Spirit to heal us and to
(35:06):
get to this point.
And I will for sure say Ididn't know it could ever feel
this good again.
There were so many times whereit was so hard that I just
didn't think we could save it atall, let alone feel this
healthy and this bonded together.
And I'm so grateful for theFather just doing that in our
marriage.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah.
So, fam, let's stay connected.
Hit us up.
Listen, we're loving thisjourney right now.
If you guys have any questions,any thoughts, anything that you
guys want to just hit us upwith, like, reach out.
You already know how to do this.
You already know all the placeswhere you can hit us up on
TikTok, instagram, the YouTube,the email, everywhere.
Listen, let's walk this lifeout together.
(35:48):
Let's continue to dig.
Let's continue to walk together.
Let's strengthen each other.
Lives will be so much better,y'all, when we love each other
and be the difference in eachother's life.
So let's continue to dig.
See y'all next time.
Let's go.
What's up everybody?
Okay, so today's episode,today's topic, today's
conversation, the chat that wehave today is actually very
special.
It's dear to our heart.
It's actually four years in themaking.
This is something that wedidn't want to talk about, but
just before we started thisrecording right now, we were
praying and God put on my heart,letting us know that every
(00:21):
single situation that we've gonethrough it wasn't just for us.
We were restored, we receivedreconciliation in our marriage
and our relationship, but thisis for other people to be
restored in relationships, andso you know, this month actually
oh snap, this month makes it 15years since we've met each
(00:42):
other.
We met each other exactly 15years ago, right?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
2007.
Wait, it's a math.
We didn't plan, we knew eachother longer than one year for
marriage, because I'm I said wemet each other, are you know?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
but our wedding lady, are you listening, sir?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Our wedding anniversary is 14 in March.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We didn't meet each other, so 16 years why do I not
have a calendar or calculator onthis thing?
You have a calculator on youron your phone.
Yes, gosh, this is not whatyear did we meet?
2007.
All right, come on, let's speedthis up.
You know what I mean thealgorithm 17 years 17 years
since we've met each other.
(01:24):
That's crazy, right, and we'vebeen married for going on 14
years, and this is crazy.
So here's why we're having thisconversation today because the
year 2020 was a crazy year andwe almost threw in the towel and
we hit rock bottom not almosthit rock bottom, we hit rock
(01:45):
bottom, we hit it.
Our relationship was at theworst place that's ever been.
It felt like work.
You felt like a roommate, right, yeah, and towards that season,
we realized we needed therapyand, which is tough, because we
grew up in cultures where youdidn't talk about your marriage
to other people, right, and sowe didn't talk about it.
(02:07):
We left it alone until werealized everything caught up to
us and we went through therapy.
And so today's chats can bereally cool.
We want to share with you guyssigns that we recognize things,
that we went through, the stuffthat we saw in our relationship,
that we realized that thesewere signs and indicators many
years before that we neededtherapy and, thank God, by his
(02:30):
grace and his love and his mercy, he had his hand over us and he
restored us, and so we're goingto talk a little bit.
So, if y'all ready, let's digOkay so 2020,?
right, it was the best of timesand it was the worst of times.
Is that how you start stories?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Anyways, listen, listen.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I'm just going to say this it was the worst time in
our relationship, worst time wewere done.
I was just reading through myjournal and some of the things
that I was writing around thattime and it breaks my heart to
realize like we went throughsome tough times.
Matter of fact, I'll read a logright now In my journal.
I'm writing this the month ofMarch 2020.
(03:07):
And I talk about how we were inquarantine.
Where's two weeks, which I knowwe never really quarantine, but
anyways, that's a whole anothertopic for another day.
This pandemic's going on.
Everything is shut down Our thedoor, the walls are closing in
on us, everything is closed,churches are closed,
unemployment at skyrocketed, allthis stuff.
But I wrote, but God is stillgood.
(03:27):
I wrote Jordan is home school.
Now we have no idea when schoolwill open again.
My travel dates, all that stuffis postponed.
I think I might have caught thecold, the COVID-19 few weeks
ago, several weeks ago, and Iwas like, oh well, the whole
world is resetting all thisstuff.
But I wrote this.
I said Danny Lee and I, though,have been fighting so much, I'm
(03:51):
scared because I feel like I'mgetting to the point where I'm
just done, not sure what to do.
I think we need counseling now.
I never told you that.
I wrote that.
Huh, no, how's that make youfeel hearing that?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
First of all, I'm just going to say this is
definitely going to be anepisode that I'm going to cry on
, just because it is so.
It is so personal, right, it'sus definitely saying, hey, this
was the worst part of ourmarriage.
But we know it's just like yousaid at the beginning, like it
wasn't just for us and seeinghow God can restore something.
This is for someone else outthere, and so hearing that it is
(04:33):
hard, but I know that we werethere, I'm.
That doesn't surprise me thatyou thought that we both got to
a point where it was almost likewe were living in like a
minefield where there were justbombs.
I think it's called a minefield, I don't know Minefield, yeah
Right, a minefield like wherethere's like secret bombs all
(04:56):
over and, depending on where youtouch, everything blows up.
Yeah, that's what I was alludingto, but it felt like that in
our house.
Mind you, it is COVID, it iseverybody staying home, but
between you and I it felt likethis dance of at any point a
bomb could go off, andoftentimes it did.
(05:18):
It could be a small question ofwhat we were going to do for
dinner, but it could turn into amassive argument it was.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
It got to the point where, like yeah, you would ask
me, what are we going to havefor dinner?
And I'd be like, why have tomake all the decisions?
Like, why is it up to me?
Like you decide food's on yourmind, You're the one that's
thinking about food.
That is so true.
It was everything was just we.
We were triggered by so manydifferent things.
And you know what, like Irealized as we begin to dig that
year, we realized that ourfoundation, everything that we
(05:49):
did, everything that we started,was just broken.
It didn't make sense.
The things that we thought ahealthy marriage should be and
what it should look like, itjust it wasn't right, it wasn't
real.
It was it, it it was.
You know, I like to use theword like pretentious, like we
were acting like it wassomething great, but deep down
inside we really knew like wait,this is this, this, this, this
(06:10):
is not real, it's not right.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I do think a lot of it, too, was we met in Bible
college.
We had this feeling of acalling on our life, and as long
as we'd been together, you hadworked for a church, and 2019
was the first year you were onstaff at a church.
Yeah and so it's, I remember itstarting to kind of unravel.
(06:35):
Like that was the first timethat as our marriage, we were in
this role of you serve it, youworking at a church full-time,
and I was right alongside you,and so there was that
deconstruction of that as well,and I remember Things like you
make a decision, danny Lee, butI kind of always took the
(06:55):
backseat to your decisions andit was my choice.
It wasn't you being that likedominating person of like I make
all the decisions on the man,it was me.
That like that was my naturaltendency of Trusting your
choices and being like well,what do you want to do?
What?
Like it was just how I thoughta good, godly Christian woman
served her husband and and inthat I I lost my voice and in
(07:19):
that I lost my ability to makeany decision for anything.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And I'll be honest with you, babe, that was a time
in our in my life that I was onthe back end of Depression,
right, you know for those of youthat they used to keep up with
us.
You know, in our last season,we dropped one of the episodes.
I wish we could say it'sepisode number this.
I don't know the number, so,but I remember when I came to
(07:44):
you saying like I think I'mdepressed.
Yeah, you know, there's anepisode that we have is titled
that, and I talk about thescience and all the things that
I felt in that season where Ifelt like I think I'm depressed
and it was a crazy time, y'all,and because of that I was
Deconstructing every singlething about me, yeah, every
single thing that I ever thoughtabout anything, even about my
(08:07):
faith.
I thought about God, how Ithought about my wife, I thought
about parenting, like everysingle thing.
I'm just like everything and,and that was the year that I
wanted out of all of it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And I remember you saying to me like babe, those
things that we talked about whenwe thought we wanted, I don't
want it, I don't want any ofthat.
And it Really really shook meto my core because for me,
that's what I signed up for,like that's what we've dreamt of
our Like for my whole life.
And ever since I met you, likeno, no, this is, this is the
(08:41):
plan that I signed up for.
And now you're telling me Iactually don't want any of that.
And so I remember telling youlike I Felt like you were
separating from me, like I feltlike we had built this marriage
of ten years, because at thispoint when all this was
happening, we were at ten yearsand I felt like we had built
(09:01):
this marriage of ten years, forthat were one, yeah, and that
felt like, uh, no, I don't wantyou to be one with me, I want
you to be your own self your ownself and I would fight that.
I'd be like how can I be myselfwhen we're marriage and marriage
is supposed to be about onelike it was so Frustrating
because I just couldn'tcomprehend what you were trying
(09:21):
to get.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know what it was like now that I'm going back, I
remember, because I was goingthrough a full deconstruction of
myself and I wasn't satisfiedwith where I was, with my career
and the things that I wanted tosee done in my life.
And I remember thinking, um,it's Danny Lee's fault, it's
because she's not like this,this bad boss, and she's not the
(09:45):
one running all my admins anddoing everything for me, and
that's why I'm not successful.
And that's when we startedrealizing, like man, like, were
we the right people for eachother?
Yeah, we made a question, all ofthat remember you made a
comment saying, like sometimes Ifeel like you married the wrong
person.
And, lady, I'm gonna tell youthis right now.
You told me that during thewrong time in my life, because I
(10:06):
was thinking like maybe you'reright.
Remember, I like, remember, Iused to say I was like, if you
say that long enough, I actuallymight be convinced.
And I started getting convinced, like maybe you're right, maybe
I did marry the wrong personwhich to throw it back.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I actually said that the very first year we were
married.
Yeah and then I realized howmuch gravity that that question
had to you.
More than like it had more, ithad weight to me.
But I just said it out offrustration and anger and,
honestly, a lot of insecurities.
But then for it to come backand find out, you told me that
(10:39):
was the first year we're married.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, and you told me how much it really got into
your head and how much youreally had to think about yeah,
Because what happened was, everytime there was times in our
life, in seasons where I feltvulnerable or felt Distracted,
right, I can hear Danny Leesaying like, well, maybe she's
the wrong person, maybe she'snot the right person, right, and
that year was the year that Imean, the straw broke the
(11:02):
camel's back.
That was the year, just like youknow what, maybe you're right,
you know, and I remember usthinking about that.
And for me to read this rightnow in my journal, to read, like
I straight up wrote I'm a row,I'm getting to the point where
I'm just done, sometimes, notsure what to do.
I think I need Counseling, oractually I think we need
(11:24):
counseling, and that's what wewanted to kind of just talk
about today y'all, because thatwas a, that was a turning point
in in our lives.
Like you know, I talked aboutthis in one of our last episodes
.
Like you know, getting in thering and staying in the fight,
yeah, and like I realized, likeyou know and I've been saying
this I had this new thought,this new process of thinking
(11:44):
when it comes to marriage isLike I'm not fighting with you
anymore, I'm fighting for you.
Yeah and that's how I saw it forme to say, like I think we need
counseling, is this fight thatwe're doing right here?
It's not with each other.
You know, there's been a pointin time where I started I had to
start telling I was like, babe,like I'm not against you, I'm
(12:06):
literally on your side, right,but there's times like you
always felt like I was comingfor you, right, right, and there
are times when I was in on inan unhealthy place, I would
weaponize my strings and that'swhat I wanted to even encourage
people.
Man, like, we all have beengiven gifts, we all have special
skills, right, personalitytypes that God has given to us,
and when you're in a good place,you use it as a strength.
(12:28):
You use it as a tool to edifyand build people.
But when you're weak, whenyou're broken, it becomes a
weapon for you.
It becomes a weapon like, ifyou're a war, right and you know
how to woo and you're in a goodplace, you use it and it builds
people up.
But if you're in a bad place,you use your words, and your
words could be a knife forpeople right, or it could be
(12:48):
blowing smoke or manipulative,manipulative.
So for me, I'm a type of personthat, where I'm very
authoritative, I could come intoa room and I could really come
and demand and honestly stepinto leadership role and really
help things get done Right.
So when I'm in a healthy place,I have no motives.
I have no motives.
My agenda is just for all of usto win right.
If I'm in an unhealthy place, myagenda is to to is bodies all
(13:11):
over the place bulldozing bloodeverywhere, and I make it on top
and yeah, and so that's whatwould happen in our marriage
when I was in an unhealthy place, like I'd come in like a strong
bulldozer, it's true, with someNarcissistic behaviors which
most men all men always had todeal with.
That constantly, every singleday, and this is crazy.
Like you know, I'm alwayslooking for opportunities daily
(13:34):
to humble myself, and I learnedhow to do that in our marriage.
The moment I realized we neededcounseling was the moment I
said, pierre, everything thatyou're passionate about,
everything that you stand proudand say this is who I am, I am,
let it go.
That was the year, just like Idon't know what to do, which is
(13:56):
tough, because I'm thepersonality that always knows
what to do.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You always know what to do and you always have an
answer.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Our marriage was the first thing, babe, like in my
life, where I was just like Ijust read it to you, I was like
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, and I will say, like you know, every marriage
goes through like ebbs and flows, right, it goes through seasons
where it's really good andthere are seasons where it's not
so good.
I mean, even with us movingmultiple times throughout our
marriage.
You know, every time we moved,those were always hard seasons
because we were readjusting tothe new place.
There was money was tight, kidswere changing, Like those in
(14:30):
and out seasons were alwayschallenging, but this one felt
different.
This one was wait a minute, wejust cannot connect on anything
at any time and it's been toolong now.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And like processing this time, going back a couple
of years, I realized that someof these things, like some of
these signs, these triggers,these indicators, we recognized
them years before.
Yeah, you know, like yourcomment that you said I think
you made the wrong person.
You said it many years beforethat, nine, eight years before
that, right, but I neveraddressed it.
(15:08):
Then I never said why do youkeep saying that?
We never talk, we let it pileup.
And that's what we wanted toeven encourage everybody, man,
like don't wait till somethingis broken, don't wait till
something is hurting, don't waittill pain, don't wait till you
hear, feel a pinch in your backto go get it looked at.
We heard some things, we sawsome things.
(15:29):
There were some triggers,things that indicated like
hazardous situations.
And we're kind of just let lifehappen.
Kids came right, Jobs, moneymoves, all these distractions,
all these things that happen inour life that allowed us to
prolong, to push it off right.
It's like we hear all the timepeople who've been married for
(15:50):
30, 40, 50 years and they getdivorced.
What happened after 40, 40, 50years?
They were distracted by takingcare of the kids, yep, and to
all, the kids left the house.
You realized like oh man, Ithink.
I hate you, I don't even likethis person in my house, but
you're distracted.
All these things happen, and sofor us, that was the year where
(16:10):
we realized, like man, I don'tlike the way this feels, I don't
want a roommate.
I remember telling you I'm likeI don't want a roommate.
I'm not gonna stain this ifwe're not gonna work this out
Like you.
Remember those conversations?
I do.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And I think too, even like learning, that was the
first time either one of us haddone therapy We'd never done
personal therapy like in our ownlives or, before we met, we did
a really quick, like four weektherapy for before we got
married.
Right well, and that's becauseit's very minimal.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That's because us, as speaking of that word, us, as
actually us, as millennials,right, we were the first ones to
actually introduce andnormalize therapy Therapy.
Right, because we were alwaystaught like, if you go talking
to somebody and you need help,you're broken, or you're cuckoo,
or you're crazy, or you'rebroken.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Also disclaimer and like highlight underscore,
italicize that what it's called.
Do all the things that I feelvery strongly that it is
important that if you are abeliever and you are looking for
a therapist, a counselor,whatever, I would never allow
anyone to speak into my life ifthey are also not a believer.
(17:23):
And I felt very strongly like,as we were looking for a
therapist, that it had to be abeliever.
And our therapist, like shoutout to Steve I've sent his page
to so many people because he wasliterally a God sent.
He had so many things in commonwith you.
He had.
His wife had things in commonwith me which we never even met
(17:43):
her, but just hearing abouttheir relationship, their
dynamic, steve taught us a lotof things in those sessions and
so I believe that that was a keypoint in when you are looking
for someone, when you're lookingfor a therapist like I'm not
gonna go sit down with atherapist and allow them to talk
me out of my marriage that Iknow God's called me to.
(18:04):
But if it's a person who has abelief in God and he knows, hey,
here are the factors that thisis a healthy relationship.
This is not, or you're indanger, like those are different
things, right, like to discussof getting out of a relationship
if there's abuse or whatever,but knowing that a godly
Christian counselor can sit herewith me and know like, hey,
(18:24):
this is where we can work onthis.
He recommended books for us andhe actually recommended a book
for me that didn't even haveanything to do with marriage.
It actually had to do with myrelationship with the Lord and
that I was searching out forother things and we could talk
about it in.
Like those, those were suchgood books, like life-changing
books.
So I just think, like, asyou're, if you are married, if
(18:48):
you are in a seriousrelationship and you have any
intention to go further intomarriage, or you're seeing signs
, or maybe you're not evenseeing signs and it's like
Pierre said of like, hey, gobefore you're sick, we'll go to
the gym to be healthy, not to beskinny, even though that's a
good side effect, not a goodside effect, a positive yeah,
(19:09):
yeah, anyways, but like, ifyou're looking for this, if
you're looking for a counselor,make sure they are Bible based,
make sure that they are someonethat you trust to speak into
your life and go from there.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, that's so good.
That's so good that youmentioned it.
Like for us as believers right,let us that believe in Jesus
you do not go to someone thatdoesn't share your belief To
counsel you, to give you advice,to give you thoughts.
It literally does not makesense.
The Bible says that we're notactually not even of this world,
so we don't.
The systems, the ways of theBible says, do not be Conformed
(19:42):
to the world.
Right, because the way they seethings, the way they comprehend
things, is not Equal to how wesee things.
And so for us connecting withSteve, that was massive, because
when we talked about beingspirit led, when we talked about
and we said terms like God, putit on Our heart, right, he knew
what we was talking about.
He wasn't saying like what'sGod?
(20:03):
Is God or maybe you're God?
I'm like you know, I mean someof y'all, y'all be listening to
people and don't make sense.
You're like, well, maybe hisenergy is not connected energy.
We're talking about energy,like you talking about.
You know you're trying tofigure out.
You know You're trying to waitfor the stars to line up.
You over here, trying to figureout.
You're following the moon eachnight.
You're like, well, you knowit's a full moon.
You know they say about fullmoons I actually don't know what
(20:24):
they say about full moons.
Right, stop watching Twilight.
So I like fine, fine peoplethat have the same mindset as
you to walk you through yourSituations, and that's what
Steve did for us.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
He really did, and then, even after we did therapy
with him, I ended up doing somepersonal therapy on my own.
Yeah, you knew, it was greatbecause then I could talk trash
about you.
But he knew Number one, he knewwho you were right because he
had worked with us.
And number two, he wasn't atherapist that was gonna say
yeah, danny Lee, you shouldprobably.
You know, maybe you need toseparate yourself, maybe you
(20:59):
need to, you know, put up someboundaries.
He never said those things thatcould have really really hurt
my marriage.
Because he knew number one I'mjust venting and number two, I'm
working through situations inmy own personal life that's
affecting my marriage.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
But that he knew now we're called to this marriage
and he knew I'm not gonna try toseparate that because the
moment we decided to get marriedbefore the Lord, married before
God and God's eyes, god honorsthat covenant and some of us,
some of y'all, y'all got marriedto people that you should never
got married to.
Okay, I get it, you made ahuman decision, but it's your
decision.
If you want to continuefighting for that person, right,
(21:35):
right, you might be Not a goodfit, and so I know I mean you
guys, I don't know you for me,say this before like I don't
believe in soul mates, my onlysoul mate is Jesus.
He's the one that satisfies mysoul right here on the earth.
Like I don't believe, likethere's one other person, right,
there are people that arebetter fits for me, all right,
there are people that are goodmatch, right, anyograms, right,
which we'll talk about that likelater on.
There are people that, if youlook at paper, you can look and
(21:56):
say, wow, this person,technically speaking, on paper,
is a good match for you.
But at the end of day, we're notsavages, right, we're not
animals.
We can talk and comprehend eachother.
That was the.
We realized, like man, I'm oilin your water or your oil, and I
want, we just was not mixingthat year.
Yeah, but here's the thing wemade a decision to say we're
(22:18):
gonna fight this through, we'regonna stay alongside each other
and learn listen, man, thebiggest machine that we have in
our bodies, it's our brain, andif we could psychologically
Understand listen, it was reallycool.
You know, we went to the Bible.
We saw, like, what the Biblesaid.
But there's times listen, Ibelieve theology and psychology
like they should workhand-in-hand and to sit down
(22:39):
with someone to say, hey, let'stalk about your temperaments.
Let's talk about yourpersonality type.
Let's talk about how you arewired.
Yes, we are spirit beings, weare led by the spirit and we
have the fruits of the spiritworking with us, but we also
have a soul where ourpersonality meets our characters
and, as other people, we maynot click well with.
(22:59):
That was a year, babe.
I love you, but we was notClicking and I was.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Here's another layer.
You can talk about yourchildhood and how that and makes
you react to certain situationsLike there's so many layers to
it and, at the end of the day,god is a God of choices.
He doesn't even force us toserve him.
That's mind-blowing to me.
But he's a God of choices andso if I chose you, I Believe he
is going to honor my choice towork this out.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, we're gonna have to work through it.
You, even if you made a goodchoice or a bad choice, but it's
a decision that we make say God, can you help us?
That was the year y'all wecried out and I said, lord, I
got on my knees.
Many times that year I said,lord, I don't know what to do.
I need you to do it.
And here's what.
Here's some signs andindicators.
Listen, and this is not just formarried people, right, this is
just for us in general,relationships in general.
(23:50):
Right, here's a sign that Iknew that, okay, we needed to
bring in a professional as athird party Right now, soon as I
owe you know, piaz, my boy, soI got you ever watch those shows
like where the husband and wife, like they go to therapy and
like it's like, and thetherapist, like you Could tell,
like he's siding with these,like mm-hmm.
Girl, I can't believe, why didyou?
(24:10):
You know me?
No, this was a third party.
This guy had no idea who he was.
Matter of fact, I told him someof the artists that I worked
with.
He's like, yep, that's great.
Okay you know, I mean, and sothird party, he had no interest,
he wasn't biased, he had nomotives, he, his goal was just
to help us.
Right, and some signs that werealized that, man, our
(24:30):
Relationship feels funny.
It was sounds like this likethe moment you feel like you're
about to Disagree, that you feellike the moment I disagree it's
gonna be a fight.
That's an indicator somethingis wrong.
Right, you don't feelcomfortable enough to bring up
something.
And that's what's happening us.
That Another sign was youdidn't want to hang out.
(24:51):
We didn't want to hang outsometimes with other people
because we had to fake how weliked each other.
Oh, my word y'all that's a signthat your relationship with this
other person Needs to be lookedat.
That's a sign you got to go tothe doctor, right?
If you don't like being in agroup setting because you know
you're gonna have to fake it,right?
You know you're gonna have toact like your boys with that guy
(25:13):
, which you really know you guysare bumping heads.
That's a sign.
That's an indicator Somethingis wrong with your relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Those were all indicators right where big ones,
yeah those like those are bigones.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Another big one was this one's a massive one is when
you were talking and I'm justover here Just like what's she
talking about?
Man rolling my eyes, I mean,she'll know she's talking about.
She know nothing about no war.
She'll know nothing aboutparenting.
She'll know life right.
Or.
While you're talking, in myhead I'm just discrediting it.
I have her buttocks for it.
(25:44):
I'm rolling my eyes.
I'm that.
Those are signs that somethingis wrong with this person you
are in relationship with.
This is not just for spouses.
This is for guys and girls thatare dating right.
This is for coworkers.
This is for leaders.
What?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
do you mean I'm going to stop you.
This does work forrelationships, if it's dating,
if it's engagement, if it'smarriage.
But if we're saying forcoworkers, if we're saying for
friends, I mean I'm not gonna goto therapy with my coworker.
So what would you tell thosepeople in those situations?
Like what would you give adviceto those points of like hey,
(26:22):
this is my friend of20-something years and we are
just not connecting.
Like what do you suggest?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
in those situations Like, for example, babe, we went
to therapy and when we feltlike we got to a place where we
were restored, you realized youstill had some things towards me
.
We didn't go to therapy, youjust went to therapy.
That's what I would say.
Like, if you're in arelationship with somebody right
, for example, if you have asibling, right, a coworker, a
parent, a boss, a leader, ateammate, someone in your life
(26:50):
that you just feel like there'sall these indicators, there's
these triggers, that every timethey talk or every time they
walk into the room right, everytime there's something in it
triggers you.
You don't go to them and say,hey, man, I think we need to go
to therapy.
Nah, you just need to go totherapy.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You need to pray about it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You need to find someone to honestly talk to,
that you can sit when they sayhey, man, I just have these
feelings towards these otherpeople.
At the end of the day, it hasnothing to do with them.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, it's actually you, it's still you.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
That's what I'm saying.
It's still you need to sit downwith someone and that therapist
can walk you through.
That's what the therapist hasbeen doing for you.
That's what they did for us.
Like he asked me, he's likePierre, why do you feel like
every single time you fell atsomething, you blame your wife?
It wasn't my wife.
That's the problem.
It's me, it's my perception,it's how I saw it.
(27:37):
That was the problem.
I'm reading this book right nowand it talks about the most
problems.
The problem is how you see theproblem.
Think about that.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I really need to think about that.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
The problem sometimes is not the problem.
The problem is how you see it.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
It's fair.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Chains.
The way you see it, the problemgoes away.
I thought that year you were myproblem, you weren't the one
for me to be with, so I neededto go away.
So you needed to go away.
I said I think I'm done, Ithink I need to find a better
fit.
I realized, babe, you weren'tthe problem.
The problem was how I saw you,how I saw you.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
The problem was you.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, how I saw you.
Exactly, the problem was me.
You see, to be honest, I stillhave a hard time saying it.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I know I'm like, but you need to say that the problem
was internally with you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But at the same time, the problem was how I saw it.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
But at the same, well , and what you were dealing with
internally, yeah, whatever yourfeelings were, you reflected
them to me, Like that it's myfault, like you deflected them,
but at the core, you weredealing with something inside of
you.
And then, simultaneously, I wasdealing with things with me, I
was dealing with my insecuritiesand I will say, like when
(28:54):
you're getting into thesetherapy sessions or when you're
getting into working and diggingin these relationships, like it
will expose your weaknesses, itwill expose your insecurities,
those things that will make youpop off or cry or drop a cuss
word or two.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Or three or four.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's not important, the number, the Lord is working
on my heart.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I will keep you calm, let's go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Go ahead.
You do keep me calm buthonestly those are always signs
to me.
Now that I have learned alittle bit more that those are
signs of a wound.
When I'm ready to pop off andjump at him and like lunge
across the room, I had torealize, oh, that's a wound.
Or today we were talking aboutsomething and I said some one
(29:41):
word in this conversation and itstarted to make me cry and I
realized that is a wound andsomething that hurts my heart.
So just knowing that thosethings, like when they get
exposed, it does hurt at first,but knowing that if you dig deep
enough and you get that rootout, like you can heal, you can
move past it so that when itcomes up again and it's
(30:01):
irritated, it won't be such areaction, it won't be so
explosive.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, yeah.
We can't just wait, y'all, forextreme or excruciating pain for
us to deal with something.
I had to get two root canalslast year and there were
indicators years before that forme to look at it and I made a
choice not to.
I had a cavity.
I saw a little black thingseveral years ago and I just
thought it'll go away andeventually it disappeared.
(30:29):
I didn't realize it was goingdown to the root until one day I
heard a noise, I heard a crack,I heard so many different.
I heard this weird sound,something like that.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
That is literally giving me the creeps right now.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And then what happened was I couldn't.
And then what I did was I stillignored it because the pains
went away again.
So I stopped eating on thisside, on this too, for two years
, no pain, painless.
So some of us are walkingaround.
We had indicators thatsomething needed to be looked at
.
You waited till there was pain.
(31:01):
You endured the pain.
Right, if you have pain in yourarm, you have pain in your tooth
, you have some type of pain.
What happens is you get used toit.
You matter of fact, what you dois you adjust.
So guess what I did?
I started eating on my rightside.
I still refuse to get thistooth looked at.
I got used to it and I'm likeoh, I realized I don't even eat
on that side anymore.
(31:21):
Who cares?
Eventually I had no pain, couldnot eat on the tooth.
I needed a root canal, waitedso long for the root canal, got
the root canal done, successful,it was great.
And now it's time to get acrown.
And they say now you need acrown lengthening because you
waited too long.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So I know that I hate the dentist with all my life.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Now we have to spend all this additional money to get
it done.
You guys know, my teeth isstill clean, though it's still
be looking right, still belooking right.
What I'm telling you is Iwaited too long.
Some of us are waiting too long.
There were small, subtleindicators that you can realize
in your relationships withpeople, with others.
You know I have, like ourpastor, you know I had wounds in
(32:04):
my last church that I was partof, and every time he would text
me and say, hey, let's talk.
It triggered me because Irealized all my last leaders,
every time they say let's talk.
I was in trouble and you knowwhat our pastor told us.
He said hey, just so you knowit's not me, it's you.
And I looked at him and saidyou're right, it's so true,
you're not doing anything wrong,right, it's me.
(32:24):
That every time I read thosetext messages I think I'm in
trouble and I realized it isstraight up, straight up me that
needs to be fixed.
It's your wound, it's my wound,right, it's my wound.
So I realized, man, that yearwas the year that so many signs
popped up.
We had so much pain, we hadaches, we weren't sleeping.
(32:47):
That's the most I've ever heardyou cry and we realized, like
man, we need to do somethingabout this, right?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Because we had tried a few times ourselves, like so
many times.
We were always those beingactive on our marriage, like
that's, I think, the biggesttakeaway of like we always cared
for our marriage, there wasn'tneglect in the sense of obvious
neglect.
We had hard conversations, wecared about our marriage and
(33:15):
being healthy and it just afterso many years it had caught up
to us and it was at the pointyou're right, I cried so much
that year and there were so manytimes where I just had to walk
away from you and so I think,like crying out for help is OK
and actually what will make thedifference in the health of your
(33:35):
marriage and saving yourmarriage or your relationship or
whatever that looks like.
I will say that we were talkingto a couple of few weeks ago
and they joked about how, like Ithink the wife said, hey, I
think we should go to therapy,and the husband was like, oh my
god, are you leaving me?
Like that was his initialreaction because when he heard
therapy, he thought divorce andit doesn't have to be that you
(34:00):
don't have to wait until you arebroken and until you are at
odds where you think that youcan't save it, to where you can
go to therapy, like go totherapy before you get to that
point.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah, do it, do it.
So that's our heart y'all.
We wanted to share it with youguys.
We have so many stories andsituations and things that's
happened throughout this seasonthat has strengthened us.
We love each other.
We're enjoying being with eachother.
We're enjoying our time witheach other.
We're not just roommates.
I'm enjoying going to bed withyou every single night.
(34:29):
I'm enjoying.
The other day I saw you was agroup of people even the kids
right were hyped to see you.
I saw you came, came up to you.
I get the kids every timepicked them up.
I'm like, hey, we're going togo see mommy, let's see if we
can see mommy, see mommy.
That's the way life should bewith others.
It should be enjoyed.
It should not be endured.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, and I am so grateful and I don't want to
finish this episode withoutsaying that it really is the
grace of God, it really is thepower of the Holy Spirit that
worked through our marriage,that worked through our
therapist, and that it tookevery ounce of me and it took
every ounce of you to allow theHoly Spirit to heal us and to
(35:06):
get to this point.
And I will for sure say Ididn't know it could ever feel
this good again.
There were so many times whereit was so hard that I just
didn't think we could save it atall, let alone feel this
healthy and this bonded together.
And I'm so grateful for theFather just doing that in our
marriage.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah.
So, fam, let's stay connected.
Hit us up.
Listen, we're loving thisjourney right now.
If you guys have any questions,any thoughts, anything that you
guys want to just hit us upwith, like, reach out.
You already know how to do this.
You already know all the placeswhere you can hit us up on
TikTok, instagram, the YouTube,the email, everywhere.
Listen, let's walk this lifeout together.
(35:48):
Let's continue to dig.
Let's continue to walk together.
Let's strengthen each other.
Lives will be so much better,y'all, when we love each other
and be the difference in eachother's life.
So let's continue to dig.
See y'all next time.
Let's go.
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