April 23, 2024 • 57 mins
When my mother sat me down to talk about the hurdles of marrying someone from a different race and culture, I didn't realize how those words would resonate through my life. Now, as part of an interracial couple, I've lived the layers of complexity she warned me about, and it's a journey I'm eager to share with you. Together with my partner, we navigate the blending of traditions—from Thanksgiving feasts to teaching our kids about their multifaceted heritage. We're peeling back the layers on how love, identity, and culture intertwine in our family's tapestry, and how embracing our differences has enriched our lives beyond measure.
The road hasn't always been easy, and the year 2020 threw its own set of wrenches into the mix. We found ourselves confronting the harsh realities of race in America, reflecting deeply on our past, and redefining what heritage means for our children's future. From personal stories of cultural awakening to the sobering discussions about race our family has had to face, our narrative is not just ours—it mirrors a national conversation. Our dialogue is an open book on the real-life emotional tolls and triumphs, underscored by a pursuit of understanding and respect amidst a world in desperate need of both.
This episode isn't merely a recount of our experiences; it's a call to all who listen to foster deeper connections and embrace the beauty in diversity. In a time when society is grappling with division, we share how the teachings of Christ's love for all nations have guided our path. We invite you to join this essential discourse, to listen with open hearts, and to engage with us as we continue to learn and grow in a world that is endlessly evolving. Each moment of our story is a stepping stone toward a more united future, and we're excited to have you walk this path with us.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey y'all, we're so glad that you joined us today.
We're going to dig.
If you haven't subscribed, hitthat subscribe button, join our
community.
We want you around here tobuild stronger relationships and
also it doesn't cost youanything.
Just give us a little like.
Just helps more people seethese videos.
So before we get started, wedid want to make a disclaimer
(00:23):
and give y'all a heads up thatthe thumbnail is not clickbait,
it is for real.
We are going to talk aboutwe're going to talk about it.
We're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I couldn't say that, no, you can.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We can talk about it.
We're going to talk about it iswhat he's saying.
We're going to talk about race,and so some of these
conversations may be heavy.
Some of these conversations maybe heavy, some of them may be a
little bit triggering, and sowe did just want to kind of let
y'all know that this may be areally hard episode to watch.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's going to be a good episode.
It's going to be good.
It's going to be a good episodeto watch.
Some of y'all you just go aheadand need to go ahead and loosen
up your tushy, relax, right,we're not, we're not therapists,
I'm right, we're not.
We're not therapists.
I'm gonna say that right now.
(01:12):
We're not therapists.
We're not your shrink, we'renot.
Um, we don't have all theanswers, we don't have the
audience.
Again, we are letting you intoour personal conversations, our
own chats on things that we'veencountered in our walk and in
our life, things that we'vechallenges that we have faced
and how we've overcome them, andso, um, our racial difference,
our culture differences a lot ofthat has caught up to us in the
last few years.
We weren't aware of it at thebeginning.
So we want to give you guysjust a disclaimer, letting you
(01:33):
know that, listen, if you got abad attitude, if you're just
here just to judge, go somewhereelse.
I'm going to say that right now.
Right, see you later, haters.
Somebody said the other dayright, if you got bad comments,
take a walk, like you, literallywas the one telling me that.
You was telling me that.
Someone told me the other daylike if you want to jump in the
comments and just talk trash.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Take a break take a breather, take a walk.
They said take a walk outside,the weather's nice.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh now, oh now, you remember I do Now everything
just came back to you.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Right now I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You're treating me like I'm crazy.
It was literally you that toldme the story.
Listen, listen.
It's all love here y'all.
So we love you guys.
Thank you for joining in.
And so again, we said it, justwarning, just there might be
some triggering topics, thingslike that.
This is to give value.
(02:25):
We talked about it every singletime, and so let's, let's dig,
let's dig.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Okay, 2008 to summer, and you were on your way.
You were flying from Florida toIndiana to come pick me up
because you were going to driveme down to Florida.
I was moving to Florida to liveclose to you, to start dating
you like seriously, and I thinkmy dad was even on the way to
(02:49):
pick you up from the airport.
I could be wrong in rememberingthis, but I think my dad was
picking you up from the airportand I was at home and my mom,
she pulled me into like themaster bathroom I remember so
vividly like standing in thatbathroom and she started to just
have this conversation with meand it has stuck with me for all
(03:12):
these years.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I actually 16 years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I actually took the time last month when I saw her
to actually thank her for thisvery conversation because it
impacted me so largely.
But it was a basically aconversation about marriage and
what she told me was you know,marriage is hard, no matter what
she said.
I know that now her and my dadwere not in a good place in that
(03:39):
season and so she was tellingme that marriage is hard no
matter what and no matter whoyou marry, she was like.
But if you choose to marrysomeone outside your culture,
it's a little bit morechallenging.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And that it comes with another level of difficulty
.
And she was like but we havealways raised you kids to know
that Jesus died for everyone andthat everyone is equal.
Jesus died for everyone andthat everyone is equal, and so
she said so if you believe thatPierre is the one for you and
that you want to marry him, shesaid we will a hundred percent
(04:13):
support you.
And she was like but I justwant you to know what you're
getting into.
And she went on to you know,share some factors of you.
Know that there will be placesin America that you cannot just
go, move and live comfortablyand safely.
She shared with me some thingsabout like some women in the
culture they may have a problemwith me being married to a black
(04:37):
man that there are certainthings that would come with our
kids and trying to blend thosecultures of mixed kids that
would come with our kids andtrying to blend those cultures
of mixed kids.
But she was just very bluntabout those obstacles and those
are just some of them.
Right, there's deeper ones.
There's, you know, more surfaceones, like there's a range of
(04:58):
difficulty things that come withmarrying outside your culture.
But her point was you need toknow that this could be harder,
but you need to know that if youchoose it, we support you.
And that was huge for me,because it's one thing to know
you're walking into somethingand you think it's just going to
be all roses.
It's another thing to know like, no, this could make it harder,
(05:21):
but I choose the choice.
I have the choice, yeah, and Ichoose to make this decision.
And so I was always so gratefulthat anytime we did come up
with things against our culturesor race or whatever
difficulties we've experienced,I knew what I was getting into.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, yeah.
And I mean what?
And your grandma too?
What she was like, 80 at thetime, 80 something at the time,
and I remember that being aconversation too Actually.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I think she was in her seventies, but she was
Midwest, you know, born andraised in Illinois.
My grandma and my mom said shewas like your nanny may give us
a hard time.
She was like, but she'll befine once you marry him.
And then my nanny ended uploving you so much Like she
treated you just like one of thegrandkids.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You just got really country too, right now.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I know I can't.
It's my nanny.
I'll miss her so much.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, so what's interesting is?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I do try to cover up my accent a lot guys, and so
when it comes out I just can'thelp it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Have I ever told you guys the time where Danny Lee,
sometimes she gets confused whatculture she wants to be part of
, Because here's what also wewant to mention this too Like
when it comes to race, when itcomes to culture, when it comes
to nationalities, like there's abig difference In all of those
and I think a lot of times wejust they all get entangled and
(06:38):
we all think they're all thesame thing.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Kind of like interchange those words yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We just think like race culture and we were young
and naive at the time andthought it was all the same.
But it's all of it, it's notthe same.
Some of them you can't chooseand some of them you actually
can choose.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right Like I've chosen to adapt some of the
Haitian culture.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Bingo.
You've taken on some of theHaitian culture Right, and what
brought us together was churchculture.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
True, I think that that is a very common ground for
me and you.
That allows us to connect in methat, even though you were
raised in South Florida and Iwas raised in the middle of
Indiana, our church cultureswere so similar that some of the
old songs we know, some of theold artists we know, like we
connect on that because you'relike, oh, this one's such a good
(07:25):
one.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I sat at the piano a couple of weeks ago and I
started playing all these oldschool hymns and Danny Lee's
singing them across the house.
And we're just sitting herethinking like, yo, this is crazy
that this young black Haitiankid from South Florida, right,
and this young white girl fromKokomo, indiana, all know the
same songs.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's super crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And it had nothing to do with our race.
Because, matter of fact, we'regoing to read to you guys the
differences because, before weeven tap into this, I think some
people are already thinkingwhat, already thinking in their
head what they think it is.
But let's, let's really breakdown the differences between us
before we talk about where allof our challenges, like, hit us
hard in the face.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, okay, so race.
Race refers to a person'sphysical characteristics, such
as skin color, hair texture andfacial features.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Black don't crack.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, it's true, Sorry, go ahead.
Often categorized into groupsbased on these traits, so which
is.
Race.
Is that right there is?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
big yes, that right.
There is big yes, that's bigright.
You said it's oftentimes.
People are categorized based offof the skin color, hair texture
facial features, which is toughfor us, because when we got
married at a very young age,right, people used to ask me all
the time it's like yo.
Is she going to know how to doyour kid's hair?
I'm like man.
Is she going to know how to doyour kid's hair?
(08:44):
I'm like man, we're not worriedabout that.
We really weren't Right.
Is she going to how she?
What's going to happen when shecomes down to the Haitian
culture?
Like, I even have a siblingthat had a hard time with me
marrying or, at the time, datinga white girl?
Yep, because we knew that.
What people would have thoughtthat time in the Haitian culture
, right, in the Haitian culture?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because in the Haitian culture you really do
marry another Haitian.
Yeah, it's very common.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It is crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
But as we talk about that, you know, I think about
that statement you just said.
Okay, when it comes to race,right, it's based off of just
what you look like, right, justwhat you look like.
And oftentimes we categorizepeople based off of what they
look like.
That was a challenge for me asa kid growing up, because, as a
(09:30):
kid growing up, people just lookat me and think I'm
African-American or they thinkI'm black American.
But that was tough because, yes, I was born first generation
born here in the States, inAmerica, but my parents are full
blood.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Haitian, which the community and culture of Haiti
is very close knit.
So your experience of theHaitian community and culture
was really strong, even thoughyou've only lived in America
your whole life.
Your culture, which I'll readthe definition of that in a
second.
Like your culture, was Haitian.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, so we got categorized.
There's times we gotcategorized as just black and
once people got a chance torealize, once they heard us talk
, once they saw how we act, theycan tell like, okay, these
people are different.
Because they'd realized ournationality and our culture was
different from our race and whatwe just looked like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Wouldn't you say that that actually affects you more
now living in California than itdid when you were a kid in
South Florida, where there's alot of Haitians?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
but now living out in California.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I think that happens to you even more often.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, everyone just thinks I'm just black American,
or they think I'm just AfricanAmerican, which is tough,
because I'm like, I'm not.
Actually, I came out of myparents.
My nationality is Haitian,which, technically speaking,
somebody say well, if you'reborn in America, your
nationality is America.
Okay, relax, all right, relax,you don't need to be a scientist
about it.
Yeah, so, technically speaking,I'm born here in America, so
(11:00):
I'm American, right, becausenationality just has to do with
the land of which you were bornin, Right, born in.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I was about to say born in.
Okay, so I'm going to read theculture definition.
So culture, on the other hand,encompasses a broader range of
characteristics, includingbeliefs, customs, language,
traditions and social behaviorsshared by a group of people.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A group of people, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
While race is based on biological factors, culture
is learned and can vary greatly,even within racial groups.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So here we are at that time, 18, 19, 20, and
different race.
We just loved each other.
Church culture brought ustogether, right, you just talked
about culture has to do withbeliefs, right?
Right, so our certain churchcultures, the church culture I
came out of and the churchculture you came out of, we met
at another church.
That brought all that together,yeah, so people say, man, how'd
(11:54):
you guys meet?
Well, it was church.
But it wasn't just church, itwas a specific style of church,
a specific culture, group,denomination of church.
that brought you and I together.
Yeah Right, so then that wasthe.
That was kind of like theanchor Right that brought us
together.
But here we are, as we did adeep dive in our relationship.
We're like yo, culturallyspeaking.
(12:16):
We're very, still different.
Like you and I look at rice andbeans very different.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I just don't really look at rice and beans very
different.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I just don't really look at rice and beans.
Okay, we look at food verydifferent, like when my family
eats, we got to have two, two orthree different meat.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's crazy.
I we eat one meat, one starch,one vegetable and a carb to me.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I'm like what's the carb?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
A bread a roll.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
No, but what about the rice?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
There's no rice unless it's chicken and rice
night but there's no rice.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, you got chicken , but what about the beef?
Chicken and beef.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It's a casserole, a catterole.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
What is a casserole?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
It's all of those things dumped in one dish and
baked in the oven.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That sounds like a garbage, can it's?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
delicious.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Everything thrown in.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's delicious.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
When I first started hanging out with Dan and Lee.
I remember the first time Iwent to have Thanksgiving with
your family.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You had Thanksgiving with us?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, this was after we got married no, Never
Thanksgiving with my familyReally.
Oh, it was one of themChristmas.
Okay, it was one of them.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
All right, I couldn't tell the difference.
We never missed Thanksgivingwith your mom.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Okay, I couldn't tell the difference.
We never miss Thanksgiving withyour mom.
Okay, I couldn't tell thedifference.
All right, it was one of themeals and I remember I sat at
the table.
I could smell the food.
It smells good.
You know, your mom was cookingI think you were helping her out
, things like that and I'm likeyo, I can't wait to eat.
I'm starving right now.
Son, I cannot wait to eat.
So we all sit at the table.
You know we're just getting theplates, all that stuff, and we
(13:45):
prayed.
I think on the table was justalready the rolls.
I told you it's bread rolls,right Bread rolls which I
couldn't wait to tap into thembread rolls and things were good
.
So, all right, the salt's there, the pepper's there.
They're together, of course.
You know, in my house the saltwas over here, the pepper was
over there.
You know what I mean Growing up.
We just don't know where it was.
It's like what kind of salt youwant, you know?
(14:06):
what I mean, what kind of saltyou want you know and so and Dan
Lee's like I'll make you aplate.
So I'm like, okay, cool, I wanther to make me a plate.
She comes out with the plate.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I think the other thing could have been like corn
or something like that Yep Corn.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Mashed potatoes corn ham.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Guys, I'm sitting here.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
There might have been some mac and cheese.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It could have been mac and cheese instead of corn.
So I'm sitting here, I'mlooking at this plate.
None of the food is touchingeach other, because that's the
problem already.
If the food's not touching eachother, there's not enough food
on there.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Oh my God, my food touches each other, but once I
learned Haitian culture, youjust dump it all in one pile.
If the food is not touchingeach other, then someone needs
to go back in there and cooksome more food.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
My mom's going to kill you for this.
So I'm sitting here, I'mlooking at this plate and I'm
just like I'm back.
I'm looking like I'm lookingFirst of all those that are you
watching or listening on Appleor Spotify.
You can't see my gesture rightnow, so go watch on YouTube.
I'm laying on this plate andI'm just over here looking back
at the kitchen.
I'm looking back at the kitchen.
I'm like, okay, maybe they'recoming out with the other food
(15:25):
the pork, the fish, the rice,the beef.
We all sit down and we're aboutto pray for the food.
Your lead us in a prayer.
And I'm looking at this food.
I'm like, okay, all right, theham, I know the mac, I know.
All right, all this looks goodand it was great.
I mean, I had good I mean I hadthree.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I had to have like three plates, yeah, but in my
head.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I'm thinking like where's the?
I'm thinking like where's thebeef?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's literally like guess who's coming to dinner
Like it was verbatim.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And you know, in my culture, in Haitian culture, if
there's no rice, it's not a meal.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
It's not a meal, it's all appetizers.
So I had three plates ofappetizers that day, but that
was.
That was light, right.
We're just kind of chillingright now.
We're kind of just talkingabout little things.
Listen, we still haven't eventalked about raising kids.
We still haven't talked aboutwhen a white girl comes down
into a Haitian culture down inSouth Florida come you, came to
(16:20):
our church.
I mean people was like straight, like mean doggy, not everybody
, but people were straight,sizing you too, for sure Cause
they're trying to figure out.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Not everybody, but people were straight sizing you
too, For sure, because they'retrying to figure out.
Yo, who is this?
Who do you think she is?
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Somebody just jumped on our YouTube chat the other
day talking trash.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
They did Right.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Someone said I'm too weak to get a black woman.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
They did and I was like hi, haters.
But I remember, even when wegot engaged like our home church
, the women there there was lotsof Caribbean women there and so
they were Jamaican, haitian,panamanian and like they
intentionally pulled you asideafter we got engaged and asked
(17:01):
why are you marrying a whitewoman or a white girl?
At that time I was a white girl.
That's wild, it's crazy.
But you would tell them like Ididn't seek her out because she
was white, I fell in love withher and she just happened to be
white.
Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I think the biggest challenge honestly for me has
been um overcoming the year of2020.
That one was the big one for us, it really was that was where
all of our differences likereally caught up, yeah, and like
slapped us hard in the facethat's true, because at an early
age, when people said, okay,are you, is she gonna learn
(17:38):
creole?
I'm just like man, it don'tmatter I didn't, really didn't
care didn't care anything.
is she gonna learn how to cookasian food?
But here we are where we hitafter 10 years of marriage.
At the time was the first timeI asked Danny Lee of like yo,
how come you never really tookon my Haitian culture, Learning
the language, trying to cook therice, the pork, the fish, the
(18:03):
beef, the chicken Right?
Why is why I'm always in allthese casseroles?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I only knew how to cook dude.
I know, I know I'm always inall these casseroles.
I only knew how to cook dude.
I know, I know I'm still, I'mnot good, I'm still not good at
Asian food, the only reasonwe're joking right now, y'all,
is because we've overcome and wewant to share with you guys the
things that we've done andreally talk about the truth
about it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Like people look at us, people see our family.
They look at us.
They see pictures like man, youguys are just a picture perfect
family.
You guys are like.
You guys belong in the magazine.
It's not easy being aninterracial couple.
It's not easy raising biracialchildren, especially when they
start talking and askingquestions.
The year 2020, jordan used toask me the hardest questions
(18:44):
that year.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, it's even still hard in this season with him.
He has so many questions likesaying you know he'll say things
like I'm black, I'm black, um,you know, like, and it's true.
But just crafting that balanceand grounding him in their roots
that's that's how us, like me,learning Creole started was
(19:07):
because in 2020, you asked methose questions like why did you
never want to learn Creole?
And in my defense at that, likethe last 10 years, you had
always said it doesn't reallymatter to you.
I didn't think it mattered toyou.
And then, in 2020, it came andwe had just had Brooklyn and it
just flashed before my eyes ofan 18 year old girl standing
(19:29):
there saying like why did younever teach me who I am?
I remember there was a reallybig impact on me when I moved
from Indiana to Florida.
Y'all Floridians, everybodyasks you what's your background?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, where are you from?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I didn't have that answer.
I'm American, I'm all American,is what I would say, and people
would laugh at me becausethey're like no one's from
America Like I.
I didn't have those answers andI'd ask my parents like where
are we from?
And even my parents didn't havea ton of knowledge of our
background or history, becausein the middle of America it's
actually not that emphasizedeither.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
It's not it's not a melting pot there, so no one
really cares to ask us questions.
Later on I found that, you know, I did have some family in
England, I do have some Germanlike, so, like some of those
things I found out.
But so I had a littleexperience of that of like I
don't know to tell these peopleI'm as American as we go back,
as we know, Um and so, when Ihad that vision of an 18 year
(20:30):
old Brooklyn standing therelooking at me and saying, mom,
why don't you teach me thesethings?
Like it really changed it?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Do they even know the names of our kids?
I don't think we ever told him.
Oh, ok, well, brooklyn is for Iguess we should.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Brooklyn Eve is, for I guess we should do like meet
the heiresses type of thing.
Yeah, meet the heiresses.
We have to do that one.
Yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I guess we should do like meet the Aristotle's type
of thing.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, meet the Aristotle's we're going to have
to do that one, yeah, no, butit's real.
And Jordan is 10.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Jordan's 10.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So Jordan's definitely in this phase of like
he wants to be cool and swaggyand, you know, wear a chain
necklace and he wants to be afootball player.
Yeah, it's honestly His culture, like it's really.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I didn Realize how challenging it would be to marry
outside of my race and outsideof, like my family's nationality
, until we started raising ourkids.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, it's true, you know, when you told me this
story that's so true being justus two.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
It was fine, we loved each other because, like, we
understood, yeah, we knew it,even for your mom to have that
conversation with you at theearly stage of just like, hey,
like, we're all equal, we're allgood, like, but just know that
we live in a world, especiallyin a country, that has a hard
time accepting it and in thiscountry that we live in, when
people don't understand it, thenthey turn from it, they judge
(21:41):
it.
They judge it and, like for me,like when I have, I have
friends that I have, like one ofmy buddies, like he's Korean
and so like when someone sayslike hey, man, you know, hey,
you're Chinese, right, I'm like,no, he's not Chinese, he's
Korean.
Like to me, I'm like, did Iever know that he was Korean?
No, I, just one day I asked him.
I said, hey, man, like, where'syour family from?
Like, where are you?
(22:02):
Like, excuse my ignorance, and Ithink in this uncomfortable
with information they knownothing about, so they just say
ignorant statements, like I'mgoing to say it like all lives
matter, because really it's astatement to say that I don't
know anything about brown, Idon't know anything about yellow
, I don't know anything aboutwhite, I don't know anything
about brown, I don't knowanything about red or all the
(22:25):
other colors.
So then we're just going to sayno colors matter, and to me, I
think I'm, I don't.
I don't want to get all allspiritual, but I'm going to say
this Like I think it's an insultto God when we don't want to
acknowledge his creation.
I love the fact that we'redifferent.
Let's talk about it.
I want to gain a betterunderstanding of your race and
(22:45):
your background, and then yourculture, and then because
culture can be changed, there'scertain things about your
culture.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I adopted oh my gosh, it was so crazy.
I honestly, as an American, Idon't think of culture very
strong in our world.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, but when you said Because we live in your
country.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Because you live in your country.
But when you said, like DannyLee, coke is your culture and
not cocaine, guys like Coca-Cola, like my hometown is huge, I
was like, oh my God, you'reright, that is my culture, it's
fine.
Like soda fountain drinks are aculture, like it's a thing.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Sports is our culture and for us, we drink our soda
as Jupina.
You ever heard of that oneright there I have heard of that
one.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You know why?
Because I've adopted a Haitianculture.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
You remember when I used to buy the maltas.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
And put them in our fridge.
Them things were like 600calories, boy, so much sugar.
And they don't taste good, ohno, you better watch your mouth.
You better wash, wash, washyour mouth.
But what I'm saying is likebeing us is not as easy as
people think.
It's not as easy as it looks asit looks.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And we've worked hard .
So, yes, in 2020, in thatexperience, I did start learning
Creole.
Thank you, shout out toDuolingo If you want to.
You know, support us, that'd begreat.
So Duolingo teaches me Creoleand teaches my son Creole.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And I did accept to start eating more casseroles.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That'd be great, yeah , so Duolingo teaches me Creole
and teaches my son Creole, and Idid accept to start eating more
casseroles.
That's true, and I love that.
I never really so.
That was one thing.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I really struggled with Haitian food.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I just my palate just never adjusted to it.
I never.
I couldn't.
I tried.
I tried everything your mamamade for me and I always talk
about.
Your mom made me oxtail for thefirst time and she spoiled me
so hard because she actuallytook the oxtail meat off the
bone, which is like no one doesthat in the in the Island
community, like they don'tusually take it off the bone,
you leave it on the oxtail bone.
(24:44):
Your mom made it for me like abeef stew and it was the most
amazing meat I've ever hadspeaking of my mom.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
For those of you don't know, my mom did pass
about a year and a half ago.
In 2020, in 2020, um, 2022,september 1st, she passed um,
but her and I'll have a wholenother.
There's a whole nother episodewe'll do, just talking about the
passing of my mom and what thatwas like, what my relationship
was like, where, as you guysknow, this channel is all about
relationships and I actually hada solid relationship with my
(25:11):
mom.
I haven't shed a tear sinceshe's passed and people say, oh
man, you're probably bearing,you're probably not talking
about it.
No, we talk about it.
I actually have a picture ofher right now in our living room
.
I'm looking at a picture of mymom right now.
I keep one in my desk.
We talk about her all the time.
She's still part of our lifeand we know that one day we're
going to see her again.
But we're going to talk aboutanother day.
(25:32):
But can we talk about theHaitian food that they had at
her funeral?
Though that thing was, it wasbomb.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Okay, so there is a few you're right, there are a
few things, and that food wasfire.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It was so good, it was literally fire but it was
delicious.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Okay, so there are a few, but it was delicious.
Okay, so there are a few.
I can be picky, but there are afew haitian food that I'll get
done with, and I do love a goodgrill when we go home, let's go.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But it was honestly hard work for us to really
accept the fact that we werevery different yeah and that
just recently happened, a coupleyears ago of just like um 2020,
when the whole george flooredthing happened.
Yeah, the other kid, elijah,who passed um our mod, our berry
(26:17):
was the big one that oneliterally felt like it shook our
actual family in house.
Like that one shook us to ourcore and for those of you that
are listening to this and saying, like why are they making such
a big deal about this?
That tells me, first of all,how small minded some people may
be or how small their circlemay be.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Like the trauma that's happening at the border,
things that are happening inMexico, things that are
happening in Haiti.
Like that hits home to us.
Right, we have people and knowpeople that are affected by that
Right, and so I'm not sayingI'm saying I vote left or right.
That's not what this is about.
We're not talking politics.
What I'm saying is to gainunderstanding about someone else
(26:57):
that's different from you.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And their experiences .
I think that is where it reallyreally changes is not to just
know someone but to know theirexperience.
And there's so much that Icould go into politically that I
don't want to.
But knowing my friends and mycoworkers experiences, knowing
your experience, knowing yourfamily's experience, it's all
(27:20):
different because like when mydad came from Haiti to America
like he was not.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Haitians were not respected at that time.
They were treated like thelowest level of black people.
At the time, like when I wasgrowing up in elementary, I
cried when people found out thatI was Haitian.
I cried because I knew we'd getpicked on.
And guess who?
We got picked on by by thosethat had the same color as us
because they knew we weren'ttheir race.
(27:47):
And then the whole world put usin their same category as us
because they knew we weren'ttheir race.
And then the whole world put usin their same category but for
us, we gravitated towards ournationality and our culture,
saying no, we're not like them.
So my whole childhood, growingup, like I know, like my older
brother, like he got jumped andbeat up for being Haitian and
(28:12):
beat up for being Haitian.
I remember the turn for whenbeing Haitian like wasn't cool
to like being cool, when peoplegot a chance to understand us
and all it had to do with wasignorance.
People just didn't know, theydidn't understand.
So they either made fun of it,they turned it, or they just
prejudged, made up in their mindwho they thought those type of
people were my whole Jordan'sage.
I cried.
That was one of the reasons whyfor those who don't know, like
my childhood, like I, went bythe name Peter all the time, one
(28:36):
of the reasons why I loved thename Peter because once they
heard Peter, they was like, okay, okay, cool, they just knew he
was American.
But in Florida, when you heardthe word, the name Pierre, you
already knew you were Haitian.
You was Haitian.
That's crazy.
And my childhood growing up likeyou, got picked on.
You were made fun of.
I remember when in high schoollike I remember the turn I was
(28:59):
middle school, high school Onetime in high school one guy came
to me.
He's like, hey, man, what's up?
Man, I was like, hey.
I was like, hey, he's like youHaitian.
And I was like, yeah.
And he's like, okay, sa passe,man, I love Haitians.
Man, y'all cool.
I literally did not know how torespond to it.
That was the first time someonesaid apparently, again, we live
(29:21):
in a world where someone, oncethey gain understanding and they
realize these people aren't aharm, they're not a threat,
right?
So imagine that's my upbringing.
Growing up, we were taught.
We were taught to stay out ofthe way of white people.
It's crazy because this wasn'tmy parents, my this, this is not
our country.
We weren't like.
Haitian people have differenthistory from African-Americans,
(29:42):
from African-Americans who came.
We have this different history.
The Haitian people came herebecause they wanted to come here
, but they knew this wasn'ttheir land.
So imagine that being your wholeupbringing, growing up as a
child, towards white people,towards brown people, towards
yellow people, towards redpeople, and people are sitting
like man yo.
They're saying all these colors, listen, there's nothing wrong
(30:03):
with us being different.
I have friends that are all thedifferent colors and say man yo
, these guys are racist.
I'm not, first of all, racist.
To me, there's only one race.
We talked about this before wesaw a hit record.
There's only one race and it'sthe human race.
It's a human race.
God loves every single one ofus.
He died for all of us and weall bleed red.
These bodies are just vehiclesand I love the fact that we were
(30:29):
just going up.
You know we got married.
We did our thing.
In my culture, they thoughtonce I married a white person.
This is going to be hard forsome people to hear that it was
like tailwind for me.
That's crazy conversationsaying that, hey, it's going to
be hard marrying a black man.
In some cities, some states,some areas.
(30:51):
You'll have a hard time becausepeople will just automatically
see the man that you're marriedto.
And I was taught like, hey,that's what's up, man, you got
the move up.
You just stepped up it'stailwind.
That's what they thought it'scrazy.
That things would be a littlebit easier for me.
Here's the crazy thing.
I'll be honest with you, babe.
I thought that the first coupleof years of our marriage I just
(31:14):
thought things would be alittle bit different for me.
I would look a little disarmingif I had a white wife next to
my side.
Obviously, that's not why Imarried you.
I married you because I lovedyou.
We made it through some hardtimes and we fell in love with
each other.
Right, we were best friends.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
But in my mind, somewhere deep down, I thought I
mean, but it you saw that playout in 2020 it caught up the
ugly part of it it got ugly ofwalking in gosh.
This is so hard, um likewalking in pasadena and being
(31:49):
treated so differently.
If I was with you or if Iwasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
The Ahmaud Arbery story hurt me so bad I cried.
I remember when I heard thatthis guy got hunted down for
running through a neighborhood.
Now people are going to listento this saying well, they said
that there was suspicion that hewas walking through houses.
It doesn't matter, the guy wasunarmed and he got hunted down.
(32:13):
There's a whole plot against itand the guy's already convicted
.
But this is not about thatstory.
Right, it's about how itimpacted us, so those of you
that are listening don't bejumping in chats and talking
about that situation.
We're talking about how itimpacted us.
About that situation.
We're talking about how itimpacted us.
When I sat there in the news,read the story and cried because
(32:38):
I literally thought I runthrough neighbors.
I don't live in every singleday when I go for walks.
I was going for six mile walksthat day or that season during
2020.
I was riding my bike.
I lived in Pasadena, so we weregoing all.
I was riding my bike, I livedin Pasadena, so we were going
all.
I was going through all kindsof neighborhood and when I heard
the story of this guy that justgot hunted down just because he
doesn't live here what you'redoing here I'm like I cried.
That hurt and it was toughcoming home to even talk about
(33:00):
it.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
There was so much stuff I just couldn't talk about
because it's easy to bedismissed right, I think I did
learn a lot in that season and,like hearing your experience and
hearing like how it feels to beyou, I think I learned a lot of
like how much I was raised tojust give the benefit of the
(33:27):
doubt to the police officers.
Like the benefit of the doubtto the police officers, like the
benefit of the doubt, and likeI had to really realize that
like you can't actually alwaysdo that and it's it's not true
and you know, in every storythat we mentioned, in every
story that happened in 2020,there's factors on both sides of
like different like we can'tlike.
It's not about the factors ofthe story, it's the fact of it's
(33:51):
what we said earlier of beingable to listen to someone and
understand what it feels like tobe like in their experience.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, and that was hard to talk about, because that
was the first year I actuallyverbalized, actually, what I
feel like when I'm walkingthrough our neighborhood and
it's just me, by myself, in thisblack hoodie, with a hoodie
over my head and having to weara mask.
Wearing a mask in 2020, Iliterally hated it because
people could not see my face,they could not see that I was
(34:22):
disarming and walking throughand some people are watching
this stuff.
Man, we love you.
Man, you're great.
Yeah, because you know me.
Now People don't see me andnaturally think that, oh, he's a
dad, right, he's a husband,he's a pastor, he's a mentor,
he's a leader that he believesin as a family.
The type of attention that wegot as a family, honestly, like
it was like and I said this toyou back in 2020.
(34:46):
And you probably haven't heardme say it since, because I've
been able to release that butyou were my shield, like I was
able to hide behind you and thekids sometimes, yeah, walking
(35:09):
through the airport is justdifferent with you and the kids
by my side.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
And that year was the year that it all caught up.
That was the year that I firstasked you like how come you
never learned Creole, right?
Or Jordan's asking like what amI?
And you were always saying,like you're just my baby, he's
my baby, he's my baby, right.
Like you're just my baby, he'smy baby, he's my baby, right.
Like you remember that season?
Yeah, which is the truth.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, but he's acting like right, but like what am I?
Yeah, yeah, and just reallylearning to embrace, like and
being intentional.
I think that is what I learnedof like we can't just raise our
kids to let them know thatthey're loved and they are my
babies, but like, okay, this iswho you are, this is your
(35:57):
background, this is your culture, this is your race, this is
your nationality, you know, buteven with Jordan, like I have to
work really hard to be like, no, jordan, like you are black,
but you better not forget.
You got all your mom'spersonality, like reminding him
that he is both you and me.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, yeah, man, it's it.
Man.
It's hard because I think somepeople that might be listening
to this you guys are listeningto this thinking like why are
they talking about this so much?
This is the conversation thatwe have in our house sometimes
because, as we raise theselittle kids, when you see our
four-year-old baby girl,brooklyn, naturally everyone's
going to think she's theprettiest girl in the room.
(36:39):
Everyone wants to know what isshe?
The older she gets, right,she's gonna walk into the room
with how she looks, and so forus it was very important for us
to have conversation like babygirl, it doesn't matter how you
look, right, you are smart, youare god's daughter.
Yeah, we love you, mommy lovesyou, daddy loves you, daddy
loves you.
But just know that we live in aworld that sees you first.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, and she'll be told she's the prettiest girl in
the room her whole life.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah.
And so what we don't want is 18year old Brooklyn, 30 year old
Brooklyn, walking around thisworld like she has certain
rights or privileges or whatever, understanding that she walks
into a room and it's like no,you just have to know, when you
walk into a room, people see youfirst before they hear you.
Once you start talking, they'llrealize, like, okay, like, even
(37:31):
for me that's what happenedwhen I walk into a room.
People realize that, okay, thisguy's not, he's not just
African-American.
Once I start talking, they'relike okay, what's his, what's
wrong with his accent, why doeshe sound like that?
Why does he say it like that?
And then they're like okay, hisname is Pierre, all right,
something's off with this guy.
All right, okay, but that's.
Those are the conversationsthat we've had in our household
(37:51):
of understanding, and you knowwe've we've come to an agreement
that it's a choice on what wedecide to pass down to our
children and teach them.
Because I wasn't, because thisland ain't my land, this from
California, I'm sorry, just hadto, even though I was born in
America.
So, technically speaking, mynationality is American, but I
(38:14):
came out of a Haitian culture,so I learned the language, I
learned everything about thefood.
I learned all the songs.
I went to.
About the food.
I learned all the songs.
You know, I went to Haitianchurches my whole childhood
coming up, right?
So when we look at policeofficers, we don't think they're
on our side, we don't give themthe benefit of doubt, right?
We just think, hey, man, thisain't even our country.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And we were literally taught if something happens,
run straight to an officer.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
When you first told me that, I was like when
something's go wrong, run to anofficer.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yep Find a cop.
If you get lost, if you getseparated, you run to a police
officer.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And so we've made a decision to say you know what?
We're going to educate our kidson all of the above, to give
them a full understanding oflike.
First of all, the officers arehere to protect us.
They're here to serve us.
There are some crooked ones,there are some messed up ones,
jacked up ones, but I'm going toteach them the truth about
their role and what they do, andalso get them to understand now
(39:11):
, just know the world that welive in.
Because of someone's race weread it earlier people can get
categorized into certain groupsand because of the way that
mommy looks or daddy looks,right.
So I always taught you that,like I always taught you how we
saw officers.
So, coming up as a Haitian, wejust stayed out of the way,
(39:32):
right.
And so for you in this land,when you hear the national
anthem, you get all teary eyed,you start crying to me.
I'm like what are you cryingfor?
We're like oh, take your hatoff, dude.
I'm like wait, what you thinkmy Haitian parents do?
Speaker 1 (39:46):
anything about a national anthem?
That was your culture.
Yeah, my grandpa, that was thenation.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
There you go.
That was, that was, that's yournationality, it was the pride
of that and that's totally fine.
So I've adopted that.
So I'm like all right, cool,we'll take off the hat, we put
it over the what side?
The right side?
I'll try to, you know, I'll tryto fabricate some tears.
You know what I mean.
Or, I knew that that was yourculture.
But what I love is that youknew that that wasn't my culture
(40:11):
.
Right, we didn't.
We didn't have American flagsin our house.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Right, right, you guys did.
Yeah, we had the Haitian flagin our house.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
It's true, yeah, like you know what I mean.
Like, on July 4th we celebratedjust because it was off.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And you go to the beach and we went to the beach.
I know, but January 1st you gotto have some soup.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Because January 1st was a big day for us, because
that was our independenceindependence day.
So here we are in Americacelebrating Haitian cultures.
So we made a decision to saylike we're going to teach our
kids just the truth.
So jordan, even for him.
Every time he looks at seescops, I say, buddy, wave, say hi
, he's a police officer.
I say, hey guys, wave at thepolice officers.
(40:54):
He knows how I feel.
He knows I get all nervous, he,and even though I didn't do
nothing, even though he knowshow that.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
But but to me it's just the point of just educating
our children and teaching themhealthy boundaries, healthy
respect, healthy approaches,like not bleeding all over them.
I think is important to likegiving them a good rounded
balance, so like we'll tellJordan when he gets older we'll
explain more things to him.
But finding in and we don'tknow the perfect balance, we
(41:23):
don't know how to do itperfectly.
That's parenthood, and if youare not concerned every day that
you're not screwing upparenthood, then you're probably
not doing it right, Because itis a constant battle of which
way do we go this way, that wayis this too much, not enough,
all of the above, but I thinkit's so important to share those
things with them withoutbleeding all over them, and and
(41:47):
sharing with them when the timeis right.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
And I think that's where a lot of people and the
generations before got it wrong.
They bled over the nextgeneration, right.
So I have African-Americanfriends that have chips on their
shoulders because of their dadsor their parents or their
relatives or their uncles, andthey're walking around feeling a
certain type of way.
And I'm like man, you are likefifth, sixth generation.
(42:09):
How do you know that?
Because that bitterness carriedthrough all the generations and
vice versa.
Right, Racism is taught, so true.
So if little kids start walkingaround feeling a certain type
of way, it's just like wait,what you know?
I saw this one time, a video ofa little black kid like talking
about cops, and I'm thinkinglike, buddy, you're six I saw it
(42:32):
was a YouTube video six, he wassix.
I'm like, oh, that was taught.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, like the third grader in Jordan's class that
told him he didn't belong in theschool because he wasn't
Mexican, but because he wasblack he didn't belong there.
It was taught.
Yeah, that's what conversationwas happening at home.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Or how they're having conversations.
Now Someone called him a monkeyMm-hmm, and we had a
conversation deep about it,about wait, how do we teach him
about this?
And first of all, I was likewell, first of all, what I don't
want to do is take away hisinnocence.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Right, because sometimes fourth graders are
literally just talking aboutmonkeys.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yep, they're literally just talking about
monkeys.
And so what I don't want to dois force him to understand all
the things that are going on inthe world that are implied of a
monkey.
There you go.
Yeah, we know that, but I'm notgonna bleed on him.
I'm not gonna go knocking downhis school door saying who
called my son a monkey and wefound out it was another fourth
(43:30):
grader and they were all pickinganimals for each other.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Something right well, literally the teacher said they
all call each other a versionof a monkey.
There's like something elsethat goes with it, like silly
monkey or whatever, and likethey all call each other it like
all of them I literally calledthe kids monkeys.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
The other day I got in the car I said, all right,
let's go monkeys.
So someone said he's callinghis kids monkeys.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I'm like, wait what like they're literally thinking
of the animal because they'reinnocent.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah that's, and that's what I'm saying is, how
did we make it through?
We've made a decision to washour minds clear and clean of all
the imperfections, theimpurities of this world and how
we've perverted everything.
The kids just like calling eachother monkeys.
So what we did was we taughthim we.
(44:19):
We say hey, buddy, just so thatyou know, in this world, in
this country, sometimes the wordmonkey can be insulting and
implying on something.
And let me teach you what thosekinds of people mean.
Right, I wanted him to know thedifference, right, cause I
don't want to take away hisinnocence.
So I was like so there are somepeople.
(44:39):
So if someone calls you that,if it's one of your fourth
grader friends, ask them hey,what are you trying to say?
Get clarity.
But if he's fourth, the kid'sin third grade and just playing
around Like a second grader.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
They don't even know that they don't even know.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
So stop walking around with a chip on your
shoulder.
So that's honestly, that's,that's what we've done to
overcome.
We're still having conversation.
We've had so many conversationsin 2020, the whole Amy Cooper
thing and the whole birdwatchersituation.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
That was a big deal.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
That one was hard because we're not going to even
tap into that.
If you guys don't know, don'teven YouTube it, don't even
Google it through ourdifferences when it comes to
race, when it comes to culture,when it comes to nationalities,
(45:26):
and understanding that some ofthem we can't change, but some
of them we can change.
But ultimately, at the end ofthe day, it's a choice that
we've made to say we're going toadopt each other's backgrounds.
We're going to come together Iwant to gain a better
understanding of how you did itgrowing up and then we want to
raise our kids to understand,like, listen, the world that we
live in.
You guys are just going to lookthe way you look.
(45:47):
You're not going to walk into aroom and everybody's just going
to know that you have a certainbackground.
So don't get offended forsomeone else's ignorance.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I think too, even as you're talking about us adopting
each other's cultures, I thinka big part of it also was
leaving behind the culture wewere raised in, of knowing that,
like you're not just coming tostart a house that looked like
the house you grew up in andvice versa, my house will not
look like I'm not bringingeverything that my parents
brought to me.
I'm grateful for my parents andI'm grateful for the parents
that you have and had and whatthey did for you.
(46:24):
Like we're both.
We have wonderful parents, butthat doesn't mean that our house
takes on one of thosecharacteristics, and that's it.
Like this I remember like I usedto always want to do the pajama
thing on Christmas Eve.
So my mom always let us openone present on Christmas Eve and
it was always the one shepicked out for us and it was
(46:48):
always with pajamas.
And so I was trying to do itwith my kids because it was
special to me and Pierre waslike it doesn't have to be that.
So, knowing that there eventhough I have a special memory
with that and I love it with allmy heart, and now I actually
still buy the kids pajamas, butnow I buy the kids pajamas
before Christmas Eve so theywear them longer Like just
(47:09):
knowing that, like we startfresh.
I think that's a big thing formarriages, of like I don't come
in here trying to make my homejust how my mom made it and you
don't come in here trying tomake your home just how my mom
made it and you don't come inhere trying to make your home
just how your mom made it.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
But here's the thing we did at the beginning and
that's what.
That's what messed us up.
Yeah, you know, we had theseconversations of like, what are
you gonna do, like, like withyour kids?
We're like oh no.
And then we have kids where werealize like.
Then we realized like, oh man,like we don't, we got to figure
this out Right the whole.
Yeah, the tradition that youguys had of just Christmas
jammies on Christmas Eve.
The first time you told meabout it I was like well, every
(47:46):
Christmas they got to getjammies and open it.
They get to open one presentthe night before Christmas, but
the present is already pre like.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yes, preselected.
And you're always like, butthen they only get a short time
to wear Christmas pajamas.
That was the one that was likeokay, I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I'll buy them Christmas pajamas, but for so
many years we did try to forceour cultures into our house.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
And it wasn't working .
Speaker 2 (48:09):
And it wasn't working Sure.
So I'd get upset with you thatyou didn't learn Creole, versus
me asking you at the beginning,or when we finally got to that
breaking point where I was likehow come you don't want to learn
, and you was like you've neveractually asked me, we've never
talked about it.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
We had never talked about it.
And every time people did talkabout it, I heard your response.
Your response was it doesn'tmatter.
So to me it doesn't matter.
To him he's fine.
So I never felt like and I willsay, part of it, too also was
tools like there was no Duolingoback then, 15 years ago, Like
it wasn't as easy.
That has been a huge tool forme and I was so excited when I
(48:47):
learned that there was somethingin my phone that could teach me
Creole.
So, but because you had alwayssaid it doesn't matter, I
genuinely thought that's how youfelt.
But then, once 2020 rolledaround and we talked about it,
we realized how you actuallyfelt and you actually shared
with me that it did bother youand you wish it was different.
Now I love.
I love when we have thosemoments out in public where we
(49:12):
can talk Creole to each other,and I know it means a lot to you
too.
And do you remember?
We were in Salvation Army theother day.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
And this guy was being crazy and I just went
straight Creole and I was like,oh, oh, he's a good day, good
day, good day.
Like I and you were liketalking back in Creole to me and
I know that that's somethingreally special that we just
shared.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah yeah, that's wild man.
That's crazy.
We've gone through a lot, man,we've faced a lot and we're
still going through stuff.
I mean, even till this day.
We're not even talking to shareabout the stories that happened
currently, like when we're atthe gym or when we're in
restaurants or when we walk intoplaces, or when people need to
describe me right, like atchurch or at the gym or those
(49:54):
types of things, man.
But at the end of the day, likeit's a choice that we've made
on how do we want to see it?
Is color important?
I think it's important becauseGod made us all a different
color.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
If he chose it, then it is important.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
It has to be important.
So I have a problem when peoplesay we don't see color.
To me I'm like that's youdenying God's work.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
He chose us all to be different shapes, so we can
embrace it.
We can embrace it and for me, Ilove it.
I love understanding.
Hey, where you from, man, okay,how long you been out here?
Okay, so where's your?
Oh, so you were born here, okay.
Do you speak the language?
Okay, cool, like what do youguys?
All right, okay, so you guys dorights too.
I love talking about thedifferences of like versus like,
(50:33):
trying to act like we're allthe same, we're not the same and
that's okay.
That's actually great, that'sokay, and so for us, that was
the biggest thing in 2020, whenwe finally had that conversation
of just like yo, we're verydifferent man, and I felt like
we both trying to force ourbackgrounds into this household,
and now that kids got into themix, it was super hard.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah with us for all these last episodes of us
talking about everything thathappened in 2020, we've actually
talked more about our marriagetherapy and us coming to this
point at 2020, where we actuallywere ready to separate and that
was marriage issues, but wenever even really talked about
(51:14):
like this was a whole otherfactor in that moment.
So we were dealing with thesetype of conversations and
identity issues and I waspostpartum and we had COVID, so
there were just a lot of factorsgoing on at once that just
really really hit us hard andthis was one of the biggest ones
(51:35):
, one of the two or three, likewhen you said that year, just
like maybe you just married thewrong person, and I was like man
, you've said this for so long,let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Yeah, what if I did?
Maybe I did, because ourdifferences like really caught
up and really bothered us and wejust realized, like man, we
just saw the world differently.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yeah, we saw the world differently, like, and so
and now that we've had theseconversations, I can say with
more certainty than ever I am abetter person because I can hear
you and California there was atime where they were doing like
(52:23):
raids for illegal aliens andhaving friends at work stressed
about their family members Like,I'm a better person from Kokomo
, indiana, because my world isso much bigger than just Indiana
, because my world is affectedby people who are in Haiti and
(52:43):
the violence that's going onright now.
My world is affected by peoplewho came from a different
country and are just trying tohave a better life.
Like and this has nothing to dowith politics, y'all like this
is literally just seeing theworld through different people's
experiences and eyes.
That made me a better person,that opened up my world and like
(53:04):
I'm genuinely better because ofthese experiences and because
I'm able to just hear you.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, this conversation hasnothing to do with politics.
Yeah, it has nothing to do withthe school system.
It has nothing to do with hiphop and pop culture.
It has nothing to do.
It all has to do with buildingbetter relationships with people
.
We say it all the time it'sabout building relationship with
God.
Why?
(53:31):
Because when you get to knowGod, you get to love him and his
creation.
Yeah, the two greatestcommandments in the Bible is to
love God and to love yourneighbor as yourself.
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
That's the two greatest commandments in the
Bible is to love God and to loveyour neighbor as yourself.
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
That's the two greatest commandments To love
God and to love you.
It's Bible.
And so our neighbors don't looklike us literally Yep.
And so to gain an understanding, to know that I feel like I'm
harmless, I'm going to look atmy neighbors and just think that
they're harmless as well.
Now, I'm not going to beignorant, right, because we do.
Got some neighbors out in thecity area that I'm just like yo,
(54:06):
this dude right here, god, he'ssketchy, he's sketchy.
Keep him away, jesus, I'm goingto love him, but from over here
to over there.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
And with a weapon in my hand.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah, but that's what this conversation really is
about.
This is the truth aboutinterracial marriages that it's
not easy.
It's not all photo shoots andmagazines and oh my gosh, look
at their mixed babies and theirkids't know how much work it is
for us to be an interracialcouple.
A healthy interracial coupleyeah.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
It's still hard work.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's hard , man, and so, ultimately,
that's what this is aboutGetting to know God, building a
relationship with him.
When you love him, you'll lovehis people, you'll love his
creation, the people that hemade.
You'll be able to understandyourself, you'll be able to give
yourself grace and people grace.
I was just reading today inRevelations, chapter five.
This is not a Bible study, butif you got your Bibles, turn
(55:13):
your Bibles to the book ofRevelations, chapter five.
Right, revelation, ohRevelation.
You know I put an S oneverything.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
No, I was actually quoting.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Craig Franklin.
It's fine, oh, the book ofRevelation.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Oh, chapter All right , Chapter five, and it was
saying how Christ died for everysingle one of us, and he died
for every tribe, every language,all people and every nation.
Go read it for yourself.
Revelation, chapter five, versenine God died.
God brought his son.
Christ died for every singleone of us, every single one of
(55:45):
us, for every tribe, everylanguage, every people, every
nation.
And so that's what this isabout Ultimately it's getting a
chance to learn someone else.
Learn them.
Put your guards down, ask a lotof questions, listen, love God
and love his people, man, andwe'll have much better lives.
Yeah, that's all I got.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
That's it.
So we love y'all.
Thank you for joining us, youknow, and just listening to us
and hearing our hearts.
We really just wanted to shareour experience and what we've
had to fight through and whatwe've had to learn, and I said
it before we hit record.
I know that there's still somuch more for us to learn and
that we'll continue to learn andour world would continue to
(56:26):
change, and so this will alwaysbe a conversation that needs to
be happening and continuing tohappen.
And so, um, we love y'all,subscribe like, hit us in the
comments.
We want to hear from y'all and,uh, let's dig.
Hey y'all, we're so glad that you joined us today.
We're going to dig.
If you haven't subscribed, hitthat subscribe button, join our
community.
We want you around here tobuild stronger relationships and
also it doesn't cost youanything.
Just give us a little like.
Just helps more people seethese videos.
So before we get started, wedid want to make a disclaimer
(00:23):
and give y'all a heads up thatthe thumbnail is not clickbait,
it is for real.
We are going to talk aboutwe're going to talk about it.
We're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I couldn't say that, no, you can.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We can talk about it.
We're going to talk about it iswhat he's saying.
We're going to talk about race,and so some of these
conversations may be heavy.
Some of these conversations maybe heavy, some of them may be a
little bit triggering, and sowe did just want to kind of let
y'all know that this may be areally hard episode to watch.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's going to be a good episode.
It's going to be good.
It's going to be a good episodeto watch.
Some of y'all you just go aheadand need to go ahead and loosen
up your tushy, relax, right,we're not, we're not therapists,
I'm right, we're not.
We're not therapists.
I'm gonna say that right now.
(01:12):
We're not therapists.
We're not your shrink, we'renot.
Um, we don't have all theanswers, we don't have the
audience.
Again, we are letting you intoour personal conversations, our
own chats on things that we'veencountered in our walk and in
our life, things that we'vechallenges that we have faced
and how we've overcome them, andso, um, our racial difference,
our culture differences a lot ofthat has caught up to us in the
last few years.
We weren't aware of it at thebeginning.
So we want to give you guysjust a disclaimer, letting you
(01:33):
know that, listen, if you got abad attitude, if you're just
here just to judge, go somewhereelse.
I'm going to say that right now.
Right, see you later, haters.
Somebody said the other dayright, if you got bad comments,
take a walk, like you, literallywas the one telling me that.
You was telling me that.
Someone told me the other daylike if you want to jump in the
comments and just talk trash.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Take a break take a breather, take a walk.
They said take a walk outside,the weather's nice.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh now, oh now, you remember I do Now everything
just came back to you.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Right now I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You're treating me like I'm crazy.
It was literally you that toldme the story.
Listen, listen.
It's all love here y'all.
So we love you guys.
Thank you for joining in.
And so again, we said it, justwarning, just there might be
some triggering topics, thingslike that.
This is to give value.
(02:25):
We talked about it every singletime, and so let's, let's dig,
let's dig.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Okay, 2008 to summer, and you were on your way.
You were flying from Florida toIndiana to come pick me up
because you were going to driveme down to Florida.
I was moving to Florida to liveclose to you, to start dating
you like seriously, and I thinkmy dad was even on the way to
(02:49):
pick you up from the airport.
I could be wrong in rememberingthis, but I think my dad was
picking you up from the airportand I was at home and my mom,
she pulled me into like themaster bathroom I remember so
vividly like standing in thatbathroom and she started to just
have this conversation with meand it has stuck with me for all
(03:12):
these years.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I actually 16 years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I actually took the time last month when I saw her
to actually thank her for thisvery conversation because it
impacted me so largely.
But it was a basically aconversation about marriage and
what she told me was you know,marriage is hard, no matter what
she said.
I know that now her and my dadwere not in a good place in that
(03:39):
season and so she was tellingme that marriage is hard no
matter what and no matter whoyou marry, she was like.
But if you choose to marrysomeone outside your culture,
it's a little bit morechallenging.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And that it comes with another level of difficulty
.
And she was like but we havealways raised you kids to know
that Jesus died for everyone andthat everyone is equal.
Jesus died for everyone andthat everyone is equal, and so
she said so if you believe thatPierre is the one for you and
that you want to marry him, shesaid we will a hundred percent
(04:13):
support you.
And she was like but I justwant you to know what you're
getting into.
And she went on to you know,share some factors of you.
Know that there will be placesin America that you cannot just
go, move and live comfortablyand safely.
She shared with me some thingsabout like some women in the
culture they may have a problemwith me being married to a black
(04:37):
man that there are certainthings that would come with our
kids and trying to blend thosecultures of mixed kids that
would come with our kids andtrying to blend those cultures
of mixed kids.
But she was just very bluntabout those obstacles and those
are just some of them.
Right, there's deeper ones.
There's, you know, more surfaceones, like there's a range of
(04:58):
difficulty things that come withmarrying outside your culture.
But her point was you need toknow that this could be harder,
but you need to know that if youchoose it, we support you.
And that was huge for me,because it's one thing to know
you're walking into somethingand you think it's just going to
be all roses.
It's another thing to know like, no, this could make it harder,
(05:21):
but I choose the choice.
I have the choice, yeah, and Ichoose to make this decision.
And so I was always so gratefulthat anytime we did come up
with things against our culturesor race or whatever
difficulties we've experienced,I knew what I was getting into.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, yeah.
And I mean what?
And your grandma too?
What she was like, 80 at thetime, 80 something at the time,
and I remember that being aconversation too Actually.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I think she was in her seventies, but she was
Midwest, you know, born andraised in Illinois.
My grandma and my mom said shewas like your nanny may give us
a hard time.
She was like, but she'll befine once you marry him.
And then my nanny ended uploving you so much Like she
treated you just like one of thegrandkids.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You just got really country too, right now.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I know I can't.
It's my nanny.
I'll miss her so much.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, so what's interesting is?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I do try to cover up my accent a lot guys, and so
when it comes out I just can'thelp it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Have I ever told you guys the time where Danny Lee,
sometimes she gets confused whatculture she wants to be part of
, Because here's what also wewant to mention this too Like
when it comes to race, when itcomes to culture, when it comes
to nationalities, like there's abig difference In all of those
and I think a lot of times wejust they all get entangled and
(06:38):
we all think they're all thesame thing.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Kind of like interchange those words yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We just think like race culture and we were young
and naive at the time andthought it was all the same.
But it's all of it, it's notthe same.
Some of them you can't chooseand some of them you actually
can choose.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right Like I've chosen to adapt some of the
Haitian culture.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Bingo.
You've taken on some of theHaitian culture Right, and what
brought us together was churchculture.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
True, I think that that is a very common ground for
me and you.
That allows us to connect in methat, even though you were
raised in South Florida and Iwas raised in the middle of
Indiana, our church cultureswere so similar that some of the
old songs we know, some of theold artists we know, like we
connect on that because you'relike, oh, this one's such a good
(07:25):
one.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I sat at the piano a couple of weeks ago and I
started playing all these oldschool hymns and Danny Lee's
singing them across the house.
And we're just sitting herethinking like, yo, this is crazy
that this young black Haitiankid from South Florida, right,
and this young white girl fromKokomo, indiana, all know the
same songs.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's super crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And it had nothing to do with our race.
Because, matter of fact, we'regoing to read to you guys the
differences because, before weeven tap into this, I think some
people are already thinkingwhat, already thinking in their
head what they think it is.
But let's, let's really breakdown the differences between us
before we talk about where allof our challenges, like, hit us
hard in the face.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, okay, so race.
Race refers to a person'sphysical characteristics, such
as skin color, hair texture andfacial features.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Black don't crack.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, it's true, Sorry, go ahead.
Often categorized into groupsbased on these traits, so which
is.
Race.
Is that right there is?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
big yes, that right.
There is big yes, that's bigright.
You said it's oftentimes.
People are categorized based offof the skin color, hair texture
facial features, which is toughfor us, because when we got
married at a very young age,right, people used to ask me all
the time it's like yo.
Is she going to know how to doyour kid's hair?
I'm like man.
Is she going to know how to doyour kid's hair?
(08:44):
I'm like man, we're not worriedabout that.
We really weren't Right.
Is she going to how she?
What's going to happen when shecomes down to the Haitian
culture?
Like, I even have a siblingthat had a hard time with me
marrying or, at the time, datinga white girl?
Yep, because we knew that.
What people would have thoughtthat time in the Haitian culture
, right, in the Haitian culture?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because in the Haitian culture you really do
marry another Haitian.
Yeah, it's very common.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It is crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
But as we talk about that, you know, I think about
that statement you just said.
Okay, when it comes to race,right, it's based off of just
what you look like, right, justwhat you look like.
And oftentimes we categorizepeople based off of what they
look like.
That was a challenge for me asa kid growing up, because, as a
(09:30):
kid growing up, people just lookat me and think I'm
African-American or they thinkI'm black American.
But that was tough because, yes, I was born first generation
born here in the States, inAmerica, but my parents are full
blood.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Haitian, which the community and culture of Haiti
is very close knit.
So your experience of theHaitian community and culture
was really strong, even thoughyou've only lived in America
your whole life.
Your culture, which I'll readthe definition of that in a
second.
Like your culture, was Haitian.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, so we got categorized.
There's times we gotcategorized as just black and
once people got a chance torealize, once they heard us talk
, once they saw how we act, theycan tell like, okay, these
people are different.
Because they'd realized ournationality and our culture was
different from our race and whatwe just looked like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Wouldn't you say that that actually affects you more
now living in California than itdid when you were a kid in
South Florida, where there's alot of Haitians?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
but now living out in California.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I think that happens to you even more often.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, everyone just thinks I'm just black American,
or they think I'm just AfricanAmerican, which is tough,
because I'm like, I'm not.
Actually, I came out of myparents.
My nationality is Haitian,which, technically speaking,
somebody say well, if you'reborn in America, your
nationality is America.
Okay, relax, all right, relax,you don't need to be a scientist
about it.
Yeah, so, technically speaking,I'm born here in America, so
(11:00):
I'm American, right, becausenationality just has to do with
the land of which you were bornin, Right, born in.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I was about to say born in.
Okay, so I'm going to read theculture definition.
So culture, on the other hand,encompasses a broader range of
characteristics, includingbeliefs, customs, language,
traditions and social behaviorsshared by a group of people.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A group of people, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
While race is based on biological factors, culture
is learned and can vary greatly,even within racial groups.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So here we are at that time, 18, 19, 20, and
different race.
We just loved each other.
Church culture brought ustogether, right, you just talked
about culture has to do withbeliefs, right?
Right, so our certain churchcultures, the church culture I
came out of and the churchculture you came out of, we met
at another church.
That brought all that together,yeah, so people say, man, how'd
(11:54):
you guys meet?
Well, it was church.
But it wasn't just church, itwas a specific style of church,
a specific culture, group,denomination of church.
that brought you and I together.
Yeah Right, so then that wasthe.
That was kind of like theanchor Right that brought us
together.
But here we are, as we did adeep dive in our relationship.
We're like yo, culturallyspeaking.
(12:16):
We're very, still different.
Like you and I look at rice andbeans very different.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I just don't really look at rice and beans very
different.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I just don't really look at rice and beans.
Okay, we look at food verydifferent, like when my family
eats, we got to have two, two orthree different meat.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's crazy.
I we eat one meat, one starch,one vegetable and a carb to me.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I'm like what's the carb?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
A bread a roll.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
No, but what about the rice?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
There's no rice unless it's chicken and rice
night but there's no rice.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, you got chicken , but what about the beef?
Chicken and beef.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It's a casserole, a catterole.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
What is a casserole?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
It's all of those things dumped in one dish and
baked in the oven.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That sounds like a garbage, can it's?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
delicious.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Everything thrown in.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's delicious.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
When I first started hanging out with Dan and Lee.
I remember the first time Iwent to have Thanksgiving with
your family.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You had Thanksgiving with us?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, this was after we got married no, Never
Thanksgiving with my familyReally.
Oh, it was one of themChristmas.
Okay, it was one of them.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
All right, I couldn't tell the difference.
We never missed Thanksgivingwith your mom.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Okay, I couldn't tell the difference.
We never miss Thanksgiving withyour mom.
Okay, I couldn't tell thedifference.
All right, it was one of themeals and I remember I sat at
the table.
I could smell the food.
It smells good.
You know, your mom was cookingI think you were helping her out
, things like that and I'm likeyo, I can't wait to eat.
I'm starving right now.
Son, I cannot wait to eat.
So we all sit at the table.
You know we're just getting theplates, all that stuff, and we
(13:45):
prayed.
I think on the table was justalready the rolls.
I told you it's bread rolls,right Bread rolls which I
couldn't wait to tap into thembread rolls and things were good
.
So, all right, the salt's there, the pepper's there.
They're together, of course.
You know, in my house the saltwas over here, the pepper was
over there.
You know what I mean Growing up.
We just don't know where it was.
It's like what kind of salt youwant, you know?
(14:06):
what I mean, what kind of saltyou want you know and so and Dan
Lee's like I'll make you aplate.
So I'm like, okay, cool, I wanther to make me a plate.
She comes out with the plate.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I think the other thing could have been like corn
or something like that Yep Corn.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Mashed potatoes corn ham.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Guys, I'm sitting here.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
There might have been some mac and cheese.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It could have been mac and cheese instead of corn.
So I'm sitting here, I'mlooking at this plate.
None of the food is touchingeach other, because that's the
problem already.
If the food's not touching eachother, there's not enough food
on there.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Oh my God, my food touches each other, but once I
learned Haitian culture, youjust dump it all in one pile.
If the food is not touchingeach other, then someone needs
to go back in there and cooksome more food.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
My mom's going to kill you for this.
So I'm sitting here, I'mlooking at this plate and I'm
just like I'm back.
I'm looking like I'm lookingFirst of all those that are you
watching or listening on Appleor Spotify.
You can't see my gesture rightnow, so go watch on YouTube.
I'm laying on this plate andI'm just over here looking back
at the kitchen.
I'm looking back at the kitchen.
I'm like, okay, maybe they'recoming out with the other food
(15:25):
the pork, the fish, the rice,the beef.
We all sit down and we're aboutto pray for the food.
Your lead us in a prayer.
And I'm looking at this food.
I'm like, okay, all right, theham, I know the mac, I know.
All right, all this looks goodand it was great.
I mean, I had good I mean I hadthree.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I had to have like three plates, yeah, but in my
head.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I'm thinking like where's the?
I'm thinking like where's thebeef?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's literally like guess who's coming to dinner
Like it was verbatim.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And you know, in my culture, in Haitian culture, if
there's no rice, it's not a meal.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
It's not a meal, it's all appetizers.
So I had three plates ofappetizers that day, but that
was.
That was light, right.
We're just kind of chillingright now.
We're kind of just talkingabout little things.
Listen, we still haven't eventalked about raising kids.
We still haven't talked aboutwhen a white girl comes down
into a Haitian culture down inSouth Florida come you, came to
(16:20):
our church.
I mean people was like straight, like mean doggy, not everybody
, but people were straight,sizing you too, for sure Cause
they're trying to figure out.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Not everybody, but people were straight sizing you
too, For sure, because they'retrying to figure out.
Yo, who is this?
Who do you think she is?
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Somebody just jumped on our YouTube chat the other
day talking trash.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
They did Right.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Someone said I'm too weak to get a black woman.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
They did and I was like hi, haters.
But I remember, even when wegot engaged like our home church
, the women there there was lotsof Caribbean women there and so
they were Jamaican, haitian,panamanian and like they
intentionally pulled you asideafter we got engaged and asked
(17:01):
why are you marrying a whitewoman or a white girl?
At that time I was a white girl.
That's wild, it's crazy.
But you would tell them like Ididn't seek her out because she
was white, I fell in love withher and she just happened to be
white.
Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I think the biggest challenge honestly for me has
been um overcoming the year of2020.
That one was the big one for us, it really was that was where
all of our differences likereally caught up, yeah, and like
slapped us hard in the facethat's true, because at an early
age, when people said, okay,are you, is she gonna learn
(17:38):
creole?
I'm just like man, it don'tmatter I didn't, really didn't
care didn't care anything.
is she gonna learn how to cookasian food?
But here we are where we hitafter 10 years of marriage.
At the time was the first timeI asked Danny Lee of like yo,
how come you never really tookon my Haitian culture, Learning
the language, trying to cook therice, the pork, the fish, the
(18:03):
beef, the chicken Right?
Why is why I'm always in allthese casseroles?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I only knew how to cook dude.
I know, I know I'm always inall these casseroles.
I only knew how to cook dude.
I know, I know I'm still, I'mnot good, I'm still not good at
Asian food, the only reasonwe're joking right now, y'all,
is because we've overcome and wewant to share with you guys the
things that we've done andreally talk about the truth
about it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Like people look at us, people see our family.
They look at us.
They see pictures like man, youguys are just a picture perfect
family.
You guys are like.
You guys belong in the magazine.
It's not easy being aninterracial couple.
It's not easy raising biracialchildren, especially when they
start talking and askingquestions.
The year 2020, jordan used toask me the hardest questions
(18:44):
that year.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, it's even still hard in this season with him.
He has so many questions likesaying you know he'll say things
like I'm black, I'm black, um,you know, like, and it's true.
But just crafting that balanceand grounding him in their roots
that's that's how us, like me,learning Creole started was
(19:07):
because in 2020, you asked methose questions like why did you
never want to learn Creole?
And in my defense at that, likethe last 10 years, you had
always said it doesn't reallymatter to you.
I didn't think it mattered toyou.
And then, in 2020, it came andwe had just had Brooklyn and it
just flashed before my eyes ofan 18 year old girl standing
(19:29):
there saying like why did younever teach me who I am?
I remember there was a reallybig impact on me when I moved
from Indiana to Florida.
Y'all Floridians, everybodyasks you what's your background?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, where are you from?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I didn't have that answer.
I'm American, I'm all American,is what I would say, and people
would laugh at me becausethey're like no one's from
America Like I.
I didn't have those answers andI'd ask my parents like where
are we from?
And even my parents didn't havea ton of knowledge of our
background or history, becausein the middle of America it's
actually not that emphasizedeither.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
It's not it's not a melting pot there, so no one
really cares to ask us questions.
Later on I found that, you know, I did have some family in
England, I do have some Germanlike, so, like some of those
things I found out.
But so I had a littleexperience of that of like I
don't know to tell these peopleI'm as American as we go back,
as we know, Um and so, when Ihad that vision of an 18 year
(20:30):
old Brooklyn standing therelooking at me and saying, mom,
why don't you teach me thesethings?
Like it really changed it?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Do they even know the names of our kids?
I don't think we ever told him.
Oh, ok, well, brooklyn is for Iguess we should.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Brooklyn Eve is, for I guess we should do like meet
the heiresses type of thing.
Yeah, meet the heiresses.
We have to do that one.
Yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I guess we should do like meet the Aristotle's type
of thing.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, meet the Aristotle's we're going to have
to do that one, yeah, no, butit's real.
And Jordan is 10.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Jordan's 10.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So Jordan's definitely in this phase of like
he wants to be cool and swaggyand, you know, wear a chain
necklace and he wants to be afootball player.
Yeah, it's honestly His culture, like it's really.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I didn Realize how challenging it would be to marry
outside of my race and outsideof, like my family's nationality
, until we started raising ourkids.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, it's true, you know, when you told me this
story that's so true being justus two.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
It was fine, we loved each other because, like, we
understood, yeah, we knew it,even for your mom to have that
conversation with you at theearly stage of just like, hey,
like, we're all equal, we're allgood, like, but just know that
we live in a world, especiallyin a country, that has a hard
time accepting it and in thiscountry that we live in, when
people don't understand it, thenthey turn from it, they judge
(21:41):
it.
They judge it and, like for me,like when I have, I have
friends that I have, like one ofmy buddies, like he's Korean
and so like when someone sayslike hey, man, you know, hey,
you're Chinese, right, I'm like,no, he's not Chinese, he's
Korean.
Like to me, I'm like, did Iever know that he was Korean?
No, I, just one day I asked him.
I said, hey, man, like, where'syour family from?
Like, where are you?
(22:02):
Like, excuse my ignorance, and Ithink in this uncomfortable
with information they knownothing about, so they just say
ignorant statements, like I'mgoing to say it like all lives
matter, because really it's astatement to say that I don't
know anything about brown, Idon't know anything about yellow
, I don't know anything aboutwhite, I don't know anything
about brown, I don't knowanything about red or all the
(22:25):
other colors.
So then we're just going to sayno colors matter, and to me, I
think I'm, I don't.
I don't want to get all allspiritual, but I'm going to say
this Like I think it's an insultto God when we don't want to
acknowledge his creation.
I love the fact that we'redifferent.
Let's talk about it.
I want to gain a betterunderstanding of your race and
(22:45):
your background, and then yourculture, and then because
culture can be changed, there'scertain things about your
culture.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I adopted oh my gosh, it was so crazy.
I honestly, as an American, Idon't think of culture very
strong in our world.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, but when you said Because we live in your
country.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Because you live in your country.
But when you said, like DannyLee, coke is your culture and
not cocaine, guys like Coca-Cola, like my hometown is huge, I
was like, oh my God, you'reright, that is my culture, it's
fine.
Like soda fountain drinks are aculture, like it's a thing.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Sports is our culture and for us, we drink our soda
as Jupina.
You ever heard of that oneright there I have heard of that
one.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You know why?
Because I've adopted a Haitianculture.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
You remember when I used to buy the maltas.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
And put them in our fridge.
Them things were like 600calories, boy, so much sugar.
And they don't taste good, ohno, you better watch your mouth.
You better wash, wash, washyour mouth.
But what I'm saying is likebeing us is not as easy as
people think.
It's not as easy as it looks asit looks.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And we've worked hard .
So, yes, in 2020, in thatexperience, I did start learning
Creole.
Thank you, shout out toDuolingo If you want to.
You know, support us, that'd begreat.
So Duolingo teaches me Creoleand teaches my son Creole.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And I did accept to start eating more casseroles.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That'd be great, yeah , so Duolingo teaches me Creole
and teaches my son Creole, and Idid accept to start eating more
casseroles.
That's true, and I love that.
I never really so.
That was one thing.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I really struggled with Haitian food.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I just my palate just never adjusted to it.
I never.
I couldn't.
I tried.
I tried everything your mamamade for me and I always talk
about.
Your mom made me oxtail for thefirst time and she spoiled me
so hard because she actuallytook the oxtail meat off the
bone, which is like no one doesthat in the in the Island
community, like they don'tusually take it off the bone,
you leave it on the oxtail bone.
(24:44):
Your mom made it for me like abeef stew and it was the most
amazing meat I've ever hadspeaking of my mom.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
For those of you don't know, my mom did pass
about a year and a half ago.
In 2020, in 2020, um, 2022,september 1st, she passed um,
but her and I'll have a wholenother.
There's a whole nother episodewe'll do, just talking about the
passing of my mom and what thatwas like, what my relationship
was like, where, as you guysknow, this channel is all about
relationships and I actually hada solid relationship with my
(25:11):
mom.
I haven't shed a tear sinceshe's passed and people say, oh
man, you're probably bearing,you're probably not talking
about it.
No, we talk about it.
I actually have a picture ofher right now in our living room
.
I'm looking at a picture of mymom right now.
I keep one in my desk.
We talk about her all the time.
She's still part of our lifeand we know that one day we're
going to see her again.
But we're going to talk aboutanother day.
(25:32):
But can we talk about theHaitian food that they had at
her funeral?
Though that thing was, it wasbomb.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Okay, so there is a few you're right, there are a
few things, and that food wasfire.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It was so good, it was literally fire but it was
delicious.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Okay, so there are a few, but it was delicious.
Okay, so there are a few.
I can be picky, but there are afew haitian food that I'll get
done with, and I do love a goodgrill when we go home, let's go.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But it was honestly hard work for us to really
accept the fact that we werevery different yeah and that
just recently happened, a coupleyears ago of just like um 2020,
when the whole george flooredthing happened.
Yeah, the other kid, elijah,who passed um our mod, our berry
(26:17):
was the big one that oneliterally felt like it shook our
actual family in house.
Like that one shook us to ourcore and for those of you that
are listening to this and saying, like why are they making such
a big deal about this?
That tells me, first of all,how small minded some people may
be or how small their circlemay be.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Like the trauma that's happening at the border,
things that are happening inMexico, things that are
happening in Haiti.
Like that hits home to us.
Right, we have people and knowpeople that are affected by that
Right, and so I'm not sayingI'm saying I vote left or right.
That's not what this is about.
We're not talking politics.
What I'm saying is to gainunderstanding about someone else
(26:57):
that's different from you.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And their experiences .
I think that is where it reallyreally changes is not to just
know someone but to know theirexperience.
And there's so much that Icould go into politically that I
don't want to.
But knowing my friends and mycoworkers experiences, knowing
your experience, knowing yourfamily's experience, it's all
(27:20):
different because like when mydad came from Haiti to America
like he was not.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Haitians were not respected at that time.
They were treated like thelowest level of black people.
At the time, like when I wasgrowing up in elementary, I
cried when people found out thatI was Haitian.
I cried because I knew we'd getpicked on.
And guess who?
We got picked on by by thosethat had the same color as us
because they knew we weren'ttheir race.
(27:47):
And then the whole world put usin their same category as us
because they knew we weren'ttheir race.
And then the whole world put usin their same category but for
us, we gravitated towards ournationality and our culture,
saying no, we're not like them.
So my whole childhood, growingup, like I know, like my older
brother, like he got jumped andbeat up for being Haitian and
(28:12):
beat up for being Haitian.
I remember the turn for whenbeing Haitian like wasn't cool
to like being cool, when peoplegot a chance to understand us
and all it had to do with wasignorance.
People just didn't know, theydidn't understand.
So they either made fun of it,they turned it, or they just
prejudged, made up in their mindwho they thought those type of
people were my whole Jordan'sage.
I cried.
That was one of the reasons whyfor those who don't know, like
my childhood, like I, went bythe name Peter all the time, one
(28:36):
of the reasons why I loved thename Peter because once they
heard Peter, they was like, okay, okay, cool, they just knew he
was American.
But in Florida, when you heardthe word, the name Pierre, you
already knew you were Haitian.
You was Haitian.
That's crazy.
And my childhood growing up likeyou, got picked on.
You were made fun of.
I remember when in high schoollike I remember the turn I was
(28:59):
middle school, high school Onetime in high school one guy came
to me.
He's like, hey, man, what's up?
Man, I was like, hey.
I was like, hey, he's like youHaitian.
And I was like, yeah.
And he's like, okay, sa passe,man, I love Haitians.
Man, y'all cool.
I literally did not know how torespond to it.
That was the first time someonesaid apparently, again, we live
(29:21):
in a world where someone, oncethey gain understanding and they
realize these people aren't aharm, they're not a threat,
right?
So imagine that's my upbringing.
Growing up, we were taught.
We were taught to stay out ofthe way of white people.
It's crazy because this wasn'tmy parents, my this, this is not
our country.
We weren't like.
Haitian people have differenthistory from African-Americans,
(29:42):
from African-Americans who came.
We have this different history.
The Haitian people came herebecause they wanted to come here
, but they knew this wasn'ttheir land.
So imagine that being your wholeupbringing, growing up as a
child, towards white people,towards brown people, towards
yellow people, towards redpeople, and people are sitting
like man yo.
They're saying all these colors, listen, there's nothing wrong
(30:03):
with us being different.
I have friends that are all thedifferent colors and say man yo
, these guys are racist.
I'm not, first of all, racist.
To me, there's only one race.
We talked about this before wesaw a hit record.
There's only one race and it'sthe human race.
It's a human race.
God loves every single one ofus.
He died for all of us and weall bleed red.
These bodies are just vehiclesand I love the fact that we were
(30:29):
just going up.
You know we got married.
We did our thing.
In my culture, they thoughtonce I married a white person.
This is going to be hard forsome people to hear that it was
like tailwind for me.
That's crazy conversationsaying that, hey, it's going to
be hard marrying a black man.
In some cities, some states,some areas.
(30:51):
You'll have a hard time becausepeople will just automatically
see the man that you're marriedto.
And I was taught like, hey,that's what's up, man, you got
the move up.
You just stepped up it'stailwind.
That's what they thought it'scrazy.
That things would be a littlebit easier for me.
Here's the crazy thing.
I'll be honest with you, babe.
I thought that the first coupleof years of our marriage I just
(31:14):
thought things would be alittle bit different for me.
I would look a little disarmingif I had a white wife next to
my side.
Obviously, that's not why Imarried you.
I married you because I lovedyou.
We made it through some hardtimes and we fell in love with
each other.
Right, we were best friends.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
But in my mind, somewhere deep down, I thought I
mean, but it you saw that playout in 2020 it caught up the
ugly part of it it got ugly ofwalking in gosh.
This is so hard, um likewalking in pasadena and being
(31:49):
treated so differently.
If I was with you or if Iwasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
The Ahmaud Arbery story hurt me so bad I cried.
I remember when I heard thatthis guy got hunted down for
running through a neighborhood.
Now people are going to listento this saying well, they said
that there was suspicion that hewas walking through houses.
It doesn't matter, the guy wasunarmed and he got hunted down.
(32:13):
There's a whole plot against itand the guy's already convicted
.
But this is not about thatstory.
Right, it's about how itimpacted us, so those of you
that are listening don't bejumping in chats and talking
about that situation.
We're talking about how itimpacted us.
About that situation.
We're talking about how itimpacted us.
When I sat there in the news,read the story and cried because
(32:38):
I literally thought I runthrough neighbors.
I don't live in every singleday when I go for walks.
I was going for six mile walksthat day or that season during
2020.
I was riding my bike.
I lived in Pasadena, so we weregoing all.
I was riding my bike, I livedin Pasadena, so we were going
all.
I was going through all kindsof neighborhood and when I heard
the story of this guy that justgot hunted down just because he
doesn't live here what you'redoing here I'm like I cried.
That hurt and it was toughcoming home to even talk about
(33:00):
it.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
There was so much stuff I just couldn't talk about
because it's easy to bedismissed right, I think I did
learn a lot in that season and,like hearing your experience and
hearing like how it feels to beyou, I think I learned a lot of
like how much I was raised tojust give the benefit of the
(33:27):
doubt to the police officers.
Like the benefit of the doubtto the police officers, like the
benefit of the doubt, and likeI had to really realize that
like you can't actually alwaysdo that and it's it's not true
and you know, in every storythat we mentioned, in every
story that happened in 2020,there's factors on both sides of
like different like we can'tlike.
It's not about the factors ofthe story, it's the fact of it's
(33:51):
what we said earlier of beingable to listen to someone and
understand what it feels like tobe like in their experience.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, and that was hard to talk about, because that
was the first year I actuallyverbalized, actually, what I
feel like when I'm walkingthrough our neighborhood and
it's just me, by myself, in thisblack hoodie, with a hoodie
over my head and having to weara mask.
Wearing a mask in 2020, Iliterally hated it because
people could not see my face,they could not see that I was
(34:22):
disarming and walking throughand some people are watching
this stuff.
Man, we love you.
Man, you're great.
Yeah, because you know me.
Now People don't see me andnaturally think that, oh, he's a
dad, right, he's a husband,he's a pastor, he's a mentor,
he's a leader that he believesin as a family.
The type of attention that wegot as a family, honestly, like
it was like and I said this toyou back in 2020.
(34:46):
And you probably haven't heardme say it since, because I've
been able to release that butyou were my shield, like I was
able to hide behind you and thekids sometimes, yeah, walking
(35:09):
through the airport is justdifferent with you and the kids
by my side.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
And that year was the year that it all caught up.
That was the year that I firstasked you like how come you
never learned Creole, right?
Or Jordan's asking like what amI?
And you were always saying,like you're just my baby, he's
my baby, he's my baby, right.
Like you're just my baby, he'smy baby, he's my baby, right.
Like you remember that season?
Yeah, which is the truth.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, but he's acting like right, but like what am I?
Yeah, yeah, and just reallylearning to embrace, like and
being intentional.
I think that is what I learnedof like we can't just raise our
kids to let them know thatthey're loved and they are my
babies, but like, okay, this iswho you are, this is your
(35:57):
background, this is your culture, this is your race, this is
your nationality, you know, buteven with Jordan, like I have to
work really hard to be like, no, jordan, like you are black,
but you better not forget.
You got all your mom'spersonality, like reminding him
that he is both you and me.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, yeah, man, it's it.
Man.
It's hard because I think somepeople that might be listening
to this you guys are listeningto this thinking like why are
they talking about this so much?
This is the conversation thatwe have in our house sometimes
because, as we raise theselittle kids, when you see our
four-year-old baby girl,brooklyn, naturally everyone's
going to think she's theprettiest girl in the room.
(36:39):
Everyone wants to know what isshe?
The older she gets, right,she's gonna walk into the room
with how she looks, and so forus it was very important for us
to have conversation like babygirl, it doesn't matter how you
look, right, you are smart, youare god's daughter.
Yeah, we love you, mommy lovesyou, daddy loves you, daddy
loves you.
But just know that we live in aworld that sees you first.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, and she'll be told she's the prettiest girl in
the room her whole life.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah.
And so what we don't want is 18year old Brooklyn, 30 year old
Brooklyn, walking around thisworld like she has certain
rights or privileges or whatever, understanding that she walks
into a room and it's like no,you just have to know, when you
walk into a room, people see youfirst before they hear you.
Once you start talking, they'llrealize, like, okay, like, even
(37:31):
for me that's what happenedwhen I walk into a room.
People realize that, okay, thisguy's not, he's not just
African-American.
Once I start talking, they'relike okay, what's his, what's
wrong with his accent, why doeshe sound like that?
Why does he say it like that?
And then they're like okay, hisname is Pierre, all right,
something's off with this guy.
All right, okay, but that's.
Those are the conversationsthat we've had in our household
(37:51):
of understanding, and you knowwe've we've come to an agreement
that it's a choice on what wedecide to pass down to our
children and teach them.
Because I wasn't, because thisland ain't my land, this from
California, I'm sorry, just hadto, even though I was born in
America.
So, technically speaking, mynationality is American, but I
(38:14):
came out of a Haitian culture,so I learned the language, I
learned everything about thefood.
I learned all the songs.
I went to.
About the food.
I learned all the songs.
You know, I went to Haitianchurches my whole childhood
coming up, right?
So when we look at policeofficers, we don't think they're
on our side, we don't give themthe benefit of doubt, right?
We just think, hey, man, thisain't even our country.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And we were literally taught if something happens,
run straight to an officer.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
When you first told me that, I was like when
something's go wrong, run to anofficer.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yep Find a cop.
If you get lost, if you getseparated, you run to a police
officer.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And so we've made a decision to say you know what?
We're going to educate our kidson all of the above, to give
them a full understanding oflike.
First of all, the officers arehere to protect us.
They're here to serve us.
There are some crooked ones,there are some messed up ones,
jacked up ones, but I'm going toteach them the truth about
their role and what they do, andalso get them to understand now
(39:11):
, just know the world that welive in.
Because of someone's race weread it earlier people can get
categorized into certain groupsand because of the way that
mommy looks or daddy looks,right.
So I always taught you that,like I always taught you how we
saw officers.
So, coming up as a Haitian, wejust stayed out of the way,
(39:32):
right.
And so for you in this land,when you hear the national
anthem, you get all teary eyed,you start crying to me.
I'm like what are you cryingfor?
We're like oh, take your hatoff, dude.
I'm like wait, what you thinkmy Haitian parents do?
Speaker 1 (39:46):
anything about a national anthem?
That was your culture.
Yeah, my grandpa, that was thenation.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
There you go.
That was, that was, that's yournationality, it was the pride
of that and that's totally fine.
So I've adopted that.
So I'm like all right, cool,we'll take off the hat, we put
it over the what side?
The right side?
I'll try to, you know, I'll tryto fabricate some tears.
You know what I mean.
Or, I knew that that was yourculture.
But what I love is that youknew that that wasn't my culture
(40:11):
.
Right, we didn't.
We didn't have American flagsin our house.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Right, right, you guys did.
Yeah, we had the Haitian flagin our house.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
It's true, yeah, like you know what I mean.
Like, on July 4th we celebratedjust because it was off.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And you go to the beach and we went to the beach.
I know, but January 1st you gotto have some soup.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Because January 1st was a big day for us, because
that was our independenceindependence day.
So here we are in Americacelebrating Haitian cultures.
So we made a decision to saylike we're going to teach our
kids just the truth.
So jordan, even for him.
Every time he looks at seescops, I say, buddy, wave, say hi
, he's a police officer.
I say, hey guys, wave at thepolice officers.
(40:54):
He knows how I feel.
He knows I get all nervous, he,and even though I didn't do
nothing, even though he knowshow that.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
But but to me it's just the point of just educating
our children and teaching themhealthy boundaries, healthy
respect, healthy approaches,like not bleeding all over them.
I think is important to likegiving them a good rounded
balance, so like we'll tellJordan when he gets older we'll
explain more things to him.
But finding in and we don'tknow the perfect balance, we
(41:23):
don't know how to do itperfectly.
That's parenthood, and if youare not concerned every day that
you're not screwing upparenthood, then you're probably
not doing it right, Because itis a constant battle of which
way do we go this way, that wayis this too much, not enough,
all of the above, but I thinkit's so important to share those
things with them withoutbleeding all over them, and and
(41:47):
sharing with them when the timeis right.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
And I think that's where a lot of people and the
generations before got it wrong.
They bled over the nextgeneration, right.
So I have African-Americanfriends that have chips on their
shoulders because of their dadsor their parents or their
relatives or their uncles, andthey're walking around feeling a
certain type of way.
And I'm like man, you are likefifth, sixth generation.
(42:09):
How do you know that?
Because that bitterness carriedthrough all the generations and
vice versa.
Right, Racism is taught, so true.
So if little kids start walkingaround feeling a certain type
of way, it's just like wait,what you know?
I saw this one time, a video ofa little black kid like talking
about cops, and I'm thinkinglike, buddy, you're six I saw it
(42:32):
was a YouTube video six, he wassix.
I'm like, oh, that was taught.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, like the third grader in Jordan's class that
told him he didn't belong in theschool because he wasn't
Mexican, but because he wasblack he didn't belong there.
It was taught.
Yeah, that's what conversationwas happening at home.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Or how they're having conversations.
Now Someone called him a monkeyMm-hmm, and we had a
conversation deep about it,about wait, how do we teach him
about this?
And first of all, I was likewell, first of all, what I don't
want to do is take away hisinnocence.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Right, because sometimes fourth graders are
literally just talking aboutmonkeys.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yep, they're literally just talking about
monkeys.
And so what I don't want to dois force him to understand all
the things that are going on inthe world that are implied of a
monkey.
There you go.
Yeah, we know that, but I'm notgonna bleed on him.
I'm not gonna go knocking downhis school door saying who
called my son a monkey and wefound out it was another fourth
(43:30):
grader and they were all pickinganimals for each other.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Something right well, literally the teacher said they
all call each other a versionof a monkey.
There's like something elsethat goes with it, like silly
monkey or whatever, and likethey all call each other it like
all of them I literally calledthe kids monkeys.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
The other day I got in the car I said, all right,
let's go monkeys.
So someone said he's callinghis kids monkeys.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I'm like, wait what like they're literally thinking
of the animal because they'reinnocent.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah that's, and that's what I'm saying is, how
did we make it through?
We've made a decision to washour minds clear and clean of all
the imperfections, theimpurities of this world and how
we've perverted everything.
The kids just like calling eachother monkeys.
So what we did was we taughthim we.
(44:19):
We say hey, buddy, just so thatyou know, in this world, in
this country, sometimes the wordmonkey can be insulting and
implying on something.
And let me teach you what thosekinds of people mean.
Right, I wanted him to know thedifference, right, cause I
don't want to take away hisinnocence.
So I was like so there are somepeople.
(44:39):
So if someone calls you that,if it's one of your fourth
grader friends, ask them hey,what are you trying to say?
Get clarity.
But if he's fourth, the kid'sin third grade and just playing
around Like a second grader.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
They don't even know that they don't even know.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
So stop walking around with a chip on your
shoulder.
So that's honestly, that's,that's what we've done to
overcome.
We're still having conversation.
We've had so many conversationsin 2020, the whole Amy Cooper
thing and the whole birdwatchersituation.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
That was a big deal.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
That one was hard because we're not going to even
tap into that.
If you guys don't know, don'teven YouTube it, don't even
Google it through ourdifferences when it comes to
race, when it comes to culture,when it comes to nationalities,
(45:26):
and understanding that some ofthem we can't change, but some
of them we can change.
But ultimately, at the end ofthe day, it's a choice that
we've made to say we're going toadopt each other's backgrounds.
We're going to come together Iwant to gain a better
understanding of how you did itgrowing up and then we want to
raise our kids to understand,like, listen, the world that we
live in.
You guys are just going to lookthe way you look.
(45:47):
You're not going to walk into aroom and everybody's just going
to know that you have a certainbackground.
So don't get offended forsomeone else's ignorance.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I think too, even as you're talking about us adopting
each other's cultures, I thinka big part of it also was
leaving behind the culture wewere raised in, of knowing that,
like you're not just coming tostart a house that looked like
the house you grew up in andvice versa, my house will not
look like I'm not bringingeverything that my parents
brought to me.
I'm grateful for my parents andI'm grateful for the parents
that you have and had and whatthey did for you.
(46:24):
Like we're both.
We have wonderful parents, butthat doesn't mean that our house
takes on one of thosecharacteristics, and that's it.
Like this I remember like I usedto always want to do the pajama
thing on Christmas Eve.
So my mom always let us openone present on Christmas Eve and
it was always the one shepicked out for us and it was
(46:48):
always with pajamas.
And so I was trying to do itwith my kids because it was
special to me and Pierre waslike it doesn't have to be that.
So, knowing that there eventhough I have a special memory
with that and I love it with allmy heart, and now I actually
still buy the kids pajamas, butnow I buy the kids pajamas
before Christmas Eve so theywear them longer Like just
(47:09):
knowing that, like we startfresh.
I think that's a big thing formarriages, of like I don't come
in here trying to make my homejust how my mom made it and you
don't come in here trying tomake your home just how my mom
made it and you don't come inhere trying to make your home
just how your mom made it.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
But here's the thing we did at the beginning and
that's what.
That's what messed us up.
Yeah, you know, we had theseconversations of like, what are
you gonna do, like, like withyour kids?
We're like oh no.
And then we have kids where werealize like.
Then we realized like, oh man,like we don't, we got to figure
this out Right the whole.
Yeah, the tradition that youguys had of just Christmas
jammies on Christmas Eve.
The first time you told meabout it I was like well, every
(47:46):
Christmas they got to getjammies and open it.
They get to open one presentthe night before Christmas, but
the present is already pre like.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yes, preselected.
And you're always like, butthen they only get a short time
to wear Christmas pajamas.
That was the one that was likeokay, I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I'll buy them Christmas pajamas, but for so
many years we did try to forceour cultures into our house.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
And it wasn't working .
Speaker 2 (48:09):
And it wasn't working Sure.
So I'd get upset with you thatyou didn't learn Creole, versus
me asking you at the beginning,or when we finally got to that
breaking point where I was likehow come you don't want to learn
, and you was like you've neveractually asked me, we've never
talked about it.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
We had never talked about it.
And every time people did talkabout it, I heard your response.
Your response was it doesn'tmatter.
So to me it doesn't matter.
To him he's fine.
So I never felt like and I willsay, part of it, too also was
tools like there was no Duolingoback then, 15 years ago, Like
it wasn't as easy.
That has been a huge tool forme and I was so excited when I
(48:47):
learned that there was somethingin my phone that could teach me
Creole.
So, but because you had alwayssaid it doesn't matter, I
genuinely thought that's how youfelt.
But then, once 2020 rolledaround and we talked about it,
we realized how you actuallyfelt and you actually shared
with me that it did bother youand you wish it was different.
Now I love.
I love when we have thosemoments out in public where we
(49:12):
can talk Creole to each other,and I know it means a lot to you
too.
And do you remember?
We were in Salvation Army theother day.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
And this guy was being crazy and I just went
straight Creole and I was like,oh, oh, he's a good day, good
day, good day.
Like I and you were liketalking back in Creole to me and
I know that that's somethingreally special that we just
shared.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah yeah, that's wild man.
That's crazy.
We've gone through a lot, man,we've faced a lot and we're
still going through stuff.
I mean, even till this day.
We're not even talking to shareabout the stories that happened
currently, like when we're atthe gym or when we're in
restaurants or when we walk intoplaces, or when people need to
describe me right, like atchurch or at the gym or those
(49:54):
types of things, man.
But at the end of the day, likeit's a choice that we've made
on how do we want to see it?
Is color important?
I think it's important becauseGod made us all a different
color.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
If he chose it, then it is important.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
It has to be important.
So I have a problem when peoplesay we don't see color.
To me I'm like that's youdenying God's work.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
He chose us all to be different shapes, so we can
embrace it.
We can embrace it and for me, Ilove it.
I love understanding.
Hey, where you from, man, okay,how long you been out here?
Okay, so where's your?
Oh, so you were born here, okay.
Do you speak the language?
Okay, cool, like what do youguys?
All right, okay, so you guys dorights too.
I love talking about thedifferences of like versus like,
(50:33):
trying to act like we're allthe same, we're not the same and
that's okay.
That's actually great, that'sokay, and so for us, that was
the biggest thing in 2020, whenwe finally had that conversation
of just like yo, we're verydifferent man, and I felt like
we both trying to force ourbackgrounds into this household,
and now that kids got into themix, it was super hard.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah with us for all these last episodes of us
talking about everything thathappened in 2020, we've actually
talked more about our marriagetherapy and us coming to this
point at 2020, where we actuallywere ready to separate and that
was marriage issues, but wenever even really talked about
(51:14):
like this was a whole otherfactor in that moment.
So we were dealing with thesetype of conversations and
identity issues and I waspostpartum and we had COVID, so
there were just a lot of factorsgoing on at once that just
really really hit us hard andthis was one of the biggest ones
(51:35):
, one of the two or three, likewhen you said that year, just
like maybe you just married thewrong person, and I was like man
, you've said this for so long,let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Yeah, what if I did?
Maybe I did, because ourdifferences like really caught
up and really bothered us and wejust realized, like man, we
just saw the world differently.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yeah, we saw the world differently, like, and so
and now that we've had theseconversations, I can say with
more certainty than ever I am abetter person because I can hear
you and California there was atime where they were doing like
(52:23):
raids for illegal aliens andhaving friends at work stressed
about their family members Like,I'm a better person from Kokomo
, indiana, because my world isso much bigger than just Indiana
, because my world is affectedby people who are in Haiti and
(52:43):
the violence that's going onright now.
My world is affected by peoplewho came from a different
country and are just trying tohave a better life.
Like and this has nothing to dowith politics, y'all like this
is literally just seeing theworld through different people's
experiences and eyes.
That made me a better person,that opened up my world and like
(53:04):
I'm genuinely better because ofthese experiences and because
I'm able to just hear you.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, this conversation hasnothing to do with politics.
Yeah, it has nothing to do withthe school system.
It has nothing to do with hiphop and pop culture.
It has nothing to do.
It all has to do with buildingbetter relationships with people
.
We say it all the time it'sabout building relationship with
God.
Why?
(53:31):
Because when you get to knowGod, you get to love him and his
creation.
Yeah, the two greatestcommandments in the Bible is to
love God and to love yourneighbor as yourself.
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
That's the two greatest commandments in the
Bible is to love God and to loveyour neighbor as yourself.
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
That's the two greatest commandments To love
God and to love you.
It's Bible.
And so our neighbors don't looklike us literally Yep.
And so to gain an understanding, to know that I feel like I'm
harmless, I'm going to look atmy neighbors and just think that
they're harmless as well.
Now, I'm not going to beignorant, right, because we do.
Got some neighbors out in thecity area that I'm just like yo,
(54:06):
this dude right here, god, he'ssketchy, he's sketchy.
Keep him away, jesus, I'm goingto love him, but from over here
to over there.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
And with a weapon in my hand.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah, but that's what this conversation really is
about.
This is the truth aboutinterracial marriages that it's
not easy.
It's not all photo shoots andmagazines and oh my gosh, look
at their mixed babies and theirkids't know how much work it is
for us to be an interracialcouple.
A healthy interracial coupleyeah.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
It's still hard work.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's hard , man, and so, ultimately,
that's what this is aboutGetting to know God, building a
relationship with him.
When you love him, you'll lovehis people, you'll love his
creation, the people that hemade.
You'll be able to understandyourself, you'll be able to give
yourself grace and people grace.
I was just reading today inRevelations, chapter five.
This is not a Bible study, butif you got your Bibles, turn
(55:13):
your Bibles to the book ofRevelations, chapter five.
Right, revelation, ohRevelation.
You know I put an S oneverything.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
No, I was actually quoting.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Craig Franklin.
It's fine, oh, the book ofRevelation.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Oh, chapter All right , Chapter five, and it was
saying how Christ died for everysingle one of us, and he died
for every tribe, every language,all people and every nation.
Go read it for yourself.
Revelation, chapter five, versenine God died.
God brought his son.
Christ died for every singleone of us, every single one of
(55:45):
us, for every tribe, everylanguage, every people, every
nation.
And so that's what this isabout Ultimately it's getting a
chance to learn someone else.
Learn them.
Put your guards down, ask a lotof questions, listen, love God
and love his people, man, andwe'll have much better lives.
Yeah, that's all I got.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
That's it.
So we love y'all.
Thank you for joining us, youknow, and just listening to us
and hearing our hearts.
We really just wanted to shareour experience and what we've
had to fight through and whatwe've had to learn, and I said
it before we hit record.
I know that there's still somuch more for us to learn and
that we'll continue to learn andour world would continue to
(56:26):
change, and so this will alwaysbe a conversation that needs to
be happening and continuing tohappen.
And so, um, we love y'all,subscribe like, hit us in the
comments.
We want to hear from y'all and,uh, let's dig.
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