November 15, 2023 • 70 mins
Ever been a victim of bullying or suffered the ramifications of addiction? Then this episode is for you. On this special episode, my husband Marcel and I explore the landscapes of abuse and addiction, and their rippling effects on families. We paint a vivid picture with anecdotes from our past, paired with relevant statistics, to help you understand the different forms of abuse - physical, mental, and the often-disregarded manifestations in areas like academic performance.
As we dig deeper, we take a turn toward the societal impacts of abuse, focusing on the pervasive issue of bullying. Sharing our personal encounters with workplace bullying, we highlight the systemic changes needed to tackle it. We also delve into the power of words and the concept of trauma-informed care, both crucial to mental health and workplace dynamics. Marcel offers a heart-rending perspective on how his family's battle with addiction has shaped him, reminding us of the widespread impact of addiction.
Tracing the roots of addiction and abuse to childhood exposures and genetic influences, we share our personal struggles and the arduous but essential task of forgiving our past tormentors. We shed light on our healing journeys, and how they have sculpted our lives. We end this episode by inviting you to consider your own upbringing, the impacts of your parents' backgrounds, and the importance of forgiveness. So, buckle up for a profound exploration of abuse, addiction, and the complicated journey towards healing and forgiveness. Come along, and let's brave these tough waters together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to let's Talk Later
.
I am your host, Capri, andtoday we have a special guest
that will be talking with usaround abuse and addiction and
its effects on families.
We're sharing perspectives anddoing a little bit of Q&A and
having some open dialogue.
Special guests, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, what's up y'all?
This is Marcel.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And Marcel, how do you know me?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh wow.
I think I met you like 11 yearsago and decided to propose to
you and make you my wife at somepoint.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, you're so crazy .
So, yes, this is my husband,marcel, and yeah, so Jaila, our
other host that is usually withme on this mic, is not with us
on this episode, as in.
So It'll Be Just Me and Marceltoday talking, because,
(01:05):
thankfully, she does not havevery much experience in this
area.
For that I am very proud.
So let's get into it.
As I mentioned, today we'll betalking about abuse and
addiction, and so how we'llstart is kind of you know.
(01:27):
I'm just going to share somestatistics around.
You know substance abuse andaddiction.
And so, according todrugabusestatisticsorg and, as
usual, share these links in theshow notes 13.5% of Americans 12
and over have used drugs in thepast month At the time they
(01:49):
took this survey, which was in2020.
You're the pandemic right.
And then 21.4%, or 59.277million people 12 and over were
users of illegal drugs ormisused prescription drugs
(02:09):
within the past year.
And so when we're talking aboutabuse, specifically in the black
communities, 16% of the childpopulation nationally are
African American children andthey make up 30% of the child
abuse and neglect fatalities,and that comes from the black
(02:31):
child legacy campaign.
I think when I first saw that,it was kind of alarming actually
, because 30%, even though it'sa small percentage of the 100%.
We're just talking aboutAfrican American children.
That does not account for AsianAmerican, alaskan, native
American, you know, caucasian,etc.
(02:52):
So that's a pretty big chunk ofthe percentage, unfortunately.
So, yeah, let that sit andsettle for you a little bit.
So with that, we're also goingto cover, you know, a few of our
own personal experiences andperspectives during this
(03:15):
conversation today, so we'lljust jump right into it.
So, marcel, what do you think,or not, what do you think, but
you know, how would you defineabuse?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I don't know.
I mean, you know there'sthere's levels to it, right,
there's physical, mental, but Iwould say it's, for the most
part, I guess, too much ofsomething.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Okay, so too much of something, definitely.
I mean, I agree when, when Ithink about abuse, like the
first thing that comes to mindis physical abuse.
But I mean, you're absolutelyright, it can be mental, it can
be physical, it has differentforms, right?
And I think that when, when wesay abuse I think that's kind of
(04:23):
the popular definition or kindof what comes to anyone's mind
is like, oh, were you abused.
That means, oh, were you hit,you know, were you, like you
know, in a domestic violencetype of situation?
And I think not often enough dowe think or acknowledge the
other types of abuse.
(04:45):
Right, you know, you don't haveto be physically assaulted by
someone to have experiencedabuse, right?
And so when we're talking aboutmental versus physical, like
you know, what are your thoughts?
Like, what do you feel?
Just personal perspective, doyou feel that one is more
(05:05):
traumatic or impactful thananother?
Would you say, in your personalexperience in life, which one
did you come across more?
Which one did you experiencemore?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, as far as I can remember, going back as far as
I can remember as a child, therewas definitely both going on.
I was physically abused.
I feel like just about a goodamount of the African American
(05:43):
community has experienced sometype of you know, whether they
call them whoop ins or spankingsor whatnot.
That was my experience on thephysical side of it.
It was really like seemed likeI forget my sweater at school, I
(06:03):
get a weapon, or I wasn't atschool when it was time for me
to get picked up.
It actually had a lot to dowith school.
It revolved around school asfar as behavior and just my
academic performance.
So that's the first thing thatcomes to mind when I think of
(06:28):
abuse, and it started physical,started off physical and then I
think it became a mental battlealong with that abuse.
I wouldn't say I was abusedmentally as far as being torn
down by words from my parents,because this was my father in
(06:50):
particular that was doing this.
But you know, as a child beingin like second, third and fourth
grade or whatnot, the more thathappens I think you're led to
believe that you're clearly notdoing something right and then
you tend to act out in result ofthat, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, that all makes sense
.
It's interesting.
Why do you think I mean, do youhave an opinion on that?
Like you said, it was largelyaround school.
Why do you think that?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, when it was happening, I can't really
remember what I of course, as achild, you just you don't want
it to keep happening, right?
But then as I got older and meand my father started to speak
more about just his childhoodand mine, he actually let me
(07:57):
know that he had the exact sameupbringing, and in fact it was.
It was.
It wasn't the exact same, itwas a little more intense.
The weapons or the spankingsthat he got was more intense,
more physical.
It left him scarred.
(08:19):
To this day, versus for me.
I'm able to address it with himand with you, as we do in
therapy, but no, at the time youdon't really know what to think
.
It's just evident that you'renot doing something right.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, I'll say it so for me, I feel like I so.
I experienced both mental andphysical abuse in my adolescence
and, before I even go into that, like my mind, I'm like feeling
(09:04):
like I should address something.
So I feel like this is alwayspersonal perspective because, no
, there is no popular opinion,there is no one or two
statistics or beliefs that cancover the entire world, right,
and so I feel like a lot ofpeople will hear this and then
they'll say everybody gotwhooped.
(09:25):
What you mean abuse, like whyare you calling it abuse?
We all got whooped, my mamawhooped me, my daddy whooped me,
etc.
Etc.
Etc.
That is one of the stigmas thatI feel, and many therapists
that I've talked to andcolleagues and friends will
agree that that's one of thestigmas we need to let go of.
(09:46):
That whooping is abuse.
It is Any time that youphysically hurt, harm someone as
a result of something they didthat you didn't like.
I mean, just listen to that.
It is, it's, it's and we were.
(10:07):
A lot of us, unfortunately,were conditioned.
Some will theorize that in thedays of slavery, when we were
whipped, you know, or ourancestors fortunately you know
for us that we weren't in thoseplaces, but our ancestors were
beaten and whipped that thatkind of like was ingrained in
(10:30):
our psyche and that became ourresponse to anger, was to what
was to hit, because that's whatour for generations and
generations and generationsthat's what we've learned was
the correct and appropriateresponse.
And so, anytime you don't youfail to have a conversation and
(10:51):
acknowledge and respect theunderstanding of where a child
is emotionally, developmentally,and instead you choose to lay a
blow.
That is abuse.
Let's just call it what it is,just be real, it is and it's a
cycle that needs to be broken.
So interject with that.
(11:14):
And then, for me, like I said, Iexperienced both mental and
physical abuse.
I would say the physical.
No, you know, I don't.
I don't know, honestly, whichone was more impactful.
I think the mental part of it,but the mental part of it in
response to the physical part ofit, was most impactful.
(11:35):
How I felt after it happened iswhat I feel like was most
impactful for me, because I feellike, honestly, I experienced
them both evenly and so withthat.
So, marcel, like what would yousay like the abuse you did
(11:56):
experience?
Like how do you feel like thataffects you now?
Like how did that affect youLike growing up as a teenager
and, as you know, into yourmanhood, and then the person you
are now?
Like what do you think that didfor you in a positive or
negative light?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, first off, I would say the physical didn't
really, it didn't really haveeffect on me, I would say until
around sixth grade, and then itactually had an effect, so much
to the point it was starting toshow my teacher and yeah, my
(12:37):
teachers were like bringing thisup as far as, like you know, I
mean they're acting out, I'mjust different, or they just
noticed something was different,and I actually took it upon
myself to tell them what wasgoing on.
And again, and that's that's alittle bit where the mental it's
(13:04):
.
It's not quite abuse, but ittakes its toll because, to
backtrack a little bit, speakingon the mental part of it, I was
always picked on by kids.
Whether it was I don't know, Iwas an easy target.
You know, I was always laughingand that was a reason.
(13:25):
Or the clothes I had on didn't,I don't know, look as nice or
didn't have the same name brandas the other kids In this
particular school when I wasthat, I was in sixth grade, my
father had five outfits for thewhole year and that was
(13:46):
something I got picked on.
I think kids realized that, youknow, it's like those same
pants or whatever.
So that became a thing.
So, with the mental part now,always on edge, wondering like
what's the next thing they'regoing to be talking about?
What are they going to pick onme about today?
(14:08):
And that makes me want toemulate someone that doesn't get
picked on, whether they causetrouble or they're just, like
you know, a class clown or whathave you.
So the mental abuse made mewant to be someone else,
(14:29):
thinking that they wouldn't seethat same kid that they used to
pick on.
Maybe now I'll, you know, bethat funny guy instead of that
poor looking guy or a cool guy.
So it didn't really it didn't dotoo much.
(14:49):
I mean, I told the school whatwas going on and they actually
ended up calling a CPS and itturned into a whole other can of
worms.
And the physical abuse led meto be afraid of my father and
instill fear 100 percent.
Just, you know the tone of hisvoice.
(15:13):
Knowing what would set him offor take him off was something I
tried very hard to avoid, andwhen I knew he was getting to
that point I got really nervous.
So I don't know if I'm ramblingon or if I answered the
question, but yeah, that's kindof where it all started was
(15:38):
around sixth grade and what itdid for me.
It just changed me.
It made me want to wear a maskor just not really be myself, or
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That makes total sense.
This is like a quick follow upquestion, so it's.
It sounded to me that you kindof made a turn right.
So when you're talking aboutthe mental abuse and the
physical abuse, but then backingup to the mental, when you were
made fun of, I experienced thatas well when you were made fun
(16:17):
of and picked on, so bullying,do you?
Would you categorize that inthe same area as abuse?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
100%.
Yeah, one thing that I heard itway before I heard Charlemagne
say it, but the phrase hurtpeople, hurt people.
That was really what it alwayswas, because again, as you get
(16:45):
older, you realize that itwasn't you.
It was what they were goingthrough.
So bullying not so much, but Idefinitely got picked on a lot.
I did get bullied a little bit.
There was.
There was some physical abusealone with it, but yeah, it's
(17:10):
either way, it's abuse.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I would agree.
For me, you know, being pickedon anything like mental abuse,
physical abuse they're both mindaltering, right.
They change how you look at theworld, they change how you look
at other people, they changehow you look at yourself.
And so, in addition to beingtorn down from the abuses that I
(17:38):
was experiencing in the home,the bullying and the you know
the ways that I was made fun ofin middle school, more so high
school.
Honestly, I feel like you knowthat transition was a bit
probably my biggest experiencewith the being picked on, but it
(18:03):
did change the way I felt aboutmyself.
I got a lot of remarks andcomments about my body and, you
know, having a child young Don't, don't even get me started that
was huge, for that was like ahot ticket item for kids my age,
(18:25):
because it's like oh, you had akid, oh, you're this, you're
that you should be ashamed.
I can't believe it.
Like I was a subject of thewhispers, and so that changed
how I felt about myself.
It really killed myself, ascene which was already
faltering because of the abusesthat I was experiencing in the
home, and then it was just likethe cherry on top.
(18:45):
So, just, you know, justbullying, as a subset, if you
will, of abuse.
It's really really not lookedat closely enough.
You hear these stories in thenews about these kids in these
schools and parents trying toget the schools and to to
respond and you get the boyswill be boys, girls will be
(19:06):
girls, or they don't payattention and then these kids
commit suicide.
It's scary, it's problematicand I mean it goes way deeper
than you know.
Just kind of a detention.
There needs to be a constantpartnership.
I don't feel like y'allprobably think you know we
always preach him, but it's it'sso true that there needs to be
(19:28):
a constant, this systemic changewith the, the households,
between the households and theadministration in schools,
because that behavior is comingfrom somewhere.
That's for a child to to thinkthat or feel that it's okay to
tear somebody else down based onmaking themselves feel better,
(19:51):
what they're seeing in the home,how they're talked to at home.
You know all of that like it's.
It just creates this very nastyvicious cycle and it's it's
problematic because if it, whatif it were your kid?
What if that picture in thenewspaper or, you know, on the
screen or this?
These days, everybody get theirnews from Twitter or Instagram
(20:12):
or TikTok, you know that picturecould be someone you know, and
so it's very hard to to swallowthat and just kind of go on with
with life, especially as aparent, you know.
And so things that I wentthrough, the things that
(20:32):
Marcel's gone through, like Idon't wish that I would, I would
, I mean I would hurt somebodyabout my, about my kids, you
know, and so it's just there'sjust so much healing to be done.
I can't say that enough.
So onto the next question.
(20:53):
So After, so the effects of,you know, abuse and bullying.
So on that same topic, like Onethat's big for me is, is
workplace bullying.
Have you experienced bullyingin the workplace?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I Think so a little bit.
The crazy part about it is, Ithink it was from a woman and I
Was a kind of new to the job andMe being, you know, just a
joyful, talkative person I am,and that's what I've always
(21:44):
noticed, whether it was at workor again with childhood but some
reason it seemed like my joyand Me being happy and laughing
and stuff just really used totick people off.
And in this particular case, IActually started this job with a
guy I grew up with in my areaor in my neighborhood, and First
(22:09):
thing she said, I think, on ourfirst day, was like you guys
aren't done yet, and it was.
It was it came off as a joke, Iguess, or she meant for it to
come off as a joke, but you knowher presence and everything.
It just it just didn't, itdidn't Come off the right way,
rubbed us the wrong way and Fromthere it was a lot of random
(22:33):
things, like I, we were in awarehouse like Like packing up
boxes.
I'm probably I don't know 21, 22years old or something like
that and Went and got a chair Tosit down while I was working in
.
Soon, as I got up, she comesbehind me and takes the chair
and was like we don't pay you tosit down and work and she's not
(22:56):
a supervisor or anything, she'sthe worker, just like me, and
it was.
It was always her, it wasalways something.
So that, I think, was the onlytime I really experienced
pulling bullying in theworkplace.
Other than that, I think allthe abuse and just the past
(23:20):
experiences had me on defensemode, to where I felt like
anybody was Trying to, I guess,trick me or or trying to Guess
what you call like trying toplay me or something.
(23:40):
I was.
I just always was on defenseand I was always ready to either
get revenge or address somebodyabout it because I Let it
happen for so long before.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
It's very interesting that you bring this up, because
I know exactly what you'retalking about and I remember
those stories that you wouldshare, but what I think also?
So not, but I think also itwould be very interesting and
worthwhile for you to share yourperspective about your manager
(24:17):
and Kind of how, like if youeven realized that was bullying
Before you know, while it washappening, because, as you were
telling, sharing the storieswith me, I definitely felt like
she was a bully.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Tom, I did the same job.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yes, so the manager was more so.
That was more on the mentalside of it.
This was like my manipulation101, to where she was able to
Convince us or make us believethat she was doing us such a
(24:55):
favor that, for example, if shewanted to have, like, a team
meeting after work, that wewould be Disrespectful to ask
for overtime, or evendisrespectful to say that we
have to leave.
Like, if we have to leave andand she wants to talk two or
(25:18):
three hours after the shift isover, then we don't care about
her, or the job isn't thatimportant, or what not.
To where?
Yeah it it.
It's like a, it's like reversepsychology, right, you're?
You know, you're thinking like,wow, am I really that rude or
am I really that inconsideratewhen, yeah, I'm saying this to
(25:41):
my wife Capri Well, she wasn'tmy wife at the time, but I'm
telling her this and she'stelling me like this, this isn't
right, and I'm Still believinglike, no, she's doing me a favor
, she's already done so much,and, yeah, thinking about it now
was like, yeah, wow, I didn'teven realize it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, definitely a narcissist, and I hope that she
has changed her ways in herlater years in life, because I
just, I can only imagine thenumber of people falling victim
to employers like that, managers, supervisors, what have you.
That's just, that's just crazy,you know.
(26:22):
And even in relationships, ifyou think about, like romantic
relationships, where you havesomeone and they're like they
buy you a car and they buy yousome shoes and they give you
some money, and like youthinking, man, this person is
awesome and you know, few monthsdown the line or a year down
the line, it's like remember allof those things I did for you.
(26:45):
You can't do this for me.
I need you to stay here and Ineed you to let so and so live
with you and I need you to payfor this.
And then, all of a sudden, allof this change behavior comes
and they're constantly throwingit back in your face of what
they did for you and Another.
You know just my manipulationand so just being aware of how
(27:06):
people treat you and respond toyou, and you know being okay
with Responding back and sayingyou know, hey, that's not cool,
or I won't accept that, or Idon't have to accept that.
Many people Unfortunately feellike they do, because they got
to pay the bills.
You know, I got to keep thisjob.
I can't lose this job.
(27:26):
You know, and I would love toactually have you back on here
to talk more about your outsideof job endeavors, because we're
so proud of him.
He just passed his exam, hisreal estate exam, and so big
things are coming and it's kindof I'm just so proud.
I'm not gonna say too muchbecause I want to like maybe a
(27:50):
little mini interview about howthings are going and maybe talk
to the Listeners about otheroptions.
Then I got to keep this job,and not saying that having a job
is terrible, but you know, it'sjust.
There's a mentality to itBecause I always say I don't
desire to be an entrepreneur.
(28:11):
It just has to be the rightorganization, a supportive,
healthy, resourcefulOrganization, which I'm still
looking for.
But anyway, off that subjectand Moving forward.
I think for so and for me.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Well, just real quick to go back to that manager and
in the Mental abuse that Iwasn't aware of it, it it took
effect so much or carried overso much to where you thought
that the manager like eitherwanted to sleep with me or I was
(28:56):
sleeping with her, or somethinglike that.
And Just because it was like itdidn't make any sense to you,
but it was almost like I wasdefending her, it like it kind
of came off like like it wassome kind of unknown or unspoken
relationship.
And Once I really realized whatwas going on and Decided to
(29:23):
quit, because actually what ledup to that was, I Think I was
actually borrowing your car Ididn't have a car at the time
and and you had the worst luckwith it, things just kept
happening.
So then I'm like sitting in thecar just eating lunch on a
regular day, happen to be undera tree and, what do you know,
(29:45):
some acorn or something comesfrom the tree and cracks the
windshield.
So I'm freaking out like manthere's already been things
going on with their car Like Idon't want to tell her, but I
have to tell her.
But like how, at least let meget it fixed first.
So, going back to the manager.
She knew someone To come by andactually got it fixed before I
(30:08):
even got off of the ship.
The day I wanted to quit Iactually went and got the money
to pay her back because she saidI didn't need to pay her back
but it just never.
I was never okay with that.
Oh, I never wanted people tohang that over my head.
So I made sure I got the moneyback.
But when I went to tell herthat I quit, she brought that up
(30:30):
and I'm like stop right there,here's your money, right here.
And, um, I Don't remember whatled up to her saying it, but
when I said I wanted to leave,um, she was like, of course, I
don't want you to leave, you,fucking idiot.
And it was like, and she wascrying and and I think that's
(30:51):
when it dawned on me like you,this, this is this.
Like something else is going on, something.
There was something more wasgoing on that I just had no clue
about, and everything Capri wastelling me about before Was
starting to just make sense.
I'm saying all that to sayBefore I did feel like I needed
(31:12):
to keep the job because it wasprobably one of the first ones
I've had, or it was like thefirst time I got permanent and
was able to keep a job for awhile, so I felt like I should
hold on to this.
I was getting a certain amountwhen I was a temp and then I got
a little more money when I gotpermanent.
But yeah, it was literallyabused just about the entire
(31:36):
time and I didn't feel bad atall when I left and just
everything before started tomake sense after that.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So I'm going to defend myself just a little bit.
Yes, I did make some commentsabout her possibly wanting or
being obsessed with him orsomething, because you would say
things and it was just weirdlike how she would respond to
you, like she owned you and Iremember, I think, what did I
(32:09):
have?
A wisdom tooth extraction.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And you asked her to leave earlier the time off to
come pick me up or take care ofme or something, and she was
like upset.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah.
So I told her that I needed totake the day off because you had
to take some kind of medicine,where they literally said, like
you can't drive or anything.
So I'm telling her I have to gopick her up and take her back
home, and her response was,quote do you need to hold her
hand too?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And listen to that.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That was where, like yeah, that was I think that was
probably the beginning of Caprithinking like yeah, like she
likes you something's up,something's up and yeah, yeah,
it even had me thinking about ita little longer.
Like now, that is kind of likethat's weird, like it shouldn't
even be, it's either.
No, you can't do it because Ineed you to work or go ahead
(33:03):
family first or whatnot.
But like yeah, needing to knowif I have to hold her hand, like
it's a very snide remark andit's very inappropriate.
Actually, it's justinappropriate.
It's not, it's yeah.
So again, that's just moreevidence to not knowing what was
going on until after the fact.
When we think about it now,it's like, yeah, that was.
(33:24):
That was pretty crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, so if you have a boss that reminds you of this
at all, if this resonates withyou, run by a new job
immediately yeah because no oneneeds to be in a position with
someone like that.
And yeah, it's just, that's justcrazy.
I'm ever the optimistic, I liketo see the best in people and
(33:50):
it's to this day.
I still am surprised bypeople's behaviors.
Like people really do stufflike that, Like well, I mean,
one of the reasons that you knowJaila's not here is she had an
interview and, to you know, wewanted this to be a dedicated
podcast for this.
You know these topics which shedoes not have experience again,
(34:13):
Clap, clap.
But she was on an interviewtoday and there was a woman who
was just just rude and just verysnarky, snide comments, like in
interview process, and it justlike always throws me because
(34:33):
it's like really Like, what isyour deal?
Like I know people go throughthings hard time.
She probably going through adivorce and might have lost her
house, I don't know.
But that's never to me, that'snever a justification for being
nasty to other people,especially someone you don't
know and has.
No, has nothing to do with thesituation.
(34:56):
So so I will share, unless youhad something else, I was just
going to share my experiencewith workplace bullying.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, I was just going to close with um.
Just stand on the topic ofabuse, right, and just the
experience I had at that job,just for everybody listening, I
guess, as far as signs or riffflags.
Going back to what I said aboutthat manager, you know she used
the manipulation as far as likefavor.
She was doing the things shedid.
(35:26):
I would say always payattention to stuff like that.
In my case, again, I was in abad relationship before I met my
wife and things got so bad towhere kind of like carried over
at work and she kept me hiredthere even though all of this
(35:46):
stuff was going on.
So that's why I felt like shewas always doing me this favor,
because I'm thinking she couldhave fired me and she didn't,
and so I'm kind of just lettingthings happen or whatever she
needed.
I feel like I'm in debt to her.
So just always pay attention toum, I guess, the income and the
(36:08):
outcome, especially when itcomes to a supervisor or a boss
or whatnot, because you knowslavery is still alive and well.
Whether you're getting whippedor not, it's still slavery.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
So yeah, word up.
So for me, I have experienced,so I've worked at the same
organization for a lot of yearsand before that I worked at
(36:48):
startups and retail and thingslike that.
I think, just in general, Ihave a bunch of like little
instances where you know I'vebeen with bosses who were, who
definitely brought theiremotions to work and you could
tell that everything you cantell when somebody's an
(37:10):
overshare, that they're probablybringing all of that emotion to
work when they come andcomplain about their
relationship, or oh, that's, youknow, I'm waiting for him to
propose and he hasn't proposedyet.
Or oh, my kids, this there's.
There's a fine line betweengetting to know someone and
building relationship and trustand oversharing, for you know
(37:35):
different reasons, you knowattachment styles or trauma or
PTSD or whatever.
But unfortunately, I had theopportunity to work with several
women who had, you know,difficulties in life and chose
to bring those to work and so asa result, you know I was yelled
(37:56):
at, you know the whole fingerwagging when you're telling your
like your dog, no, don't be onthe carpet.
That was done to me in my face,and how dare I?
And I've had missedopportunities with other
positions because, you know mysupervisor chose to tell them I
was not ready to move forward,solely because they wanted to
(38:17):
keep me on board and didn't wantto deal with recruitment and
retraining.
I've I've heard, you knowfaculty professors, people that
are supposed to be experts, andyou know the leaders of their
areas of research, say you know,as far as, like you know, black
(38:41):
people I mean African Americansor whatever they want to call
themselves like make commentslike that.
That wasn't directly to me, Iwas just passing.
I've seen situations where youknow employers want to get rid
of an employee.
This one time we had thisemployee who she was struggling
(39:03):
to start.
She was very early in theposition and just needed some
extra support and all they kepttalking about.
They talked so freely.
It's kind of crazy because youknow you would think people
wouldn't be so free speaking allthe time, but they talked so
freely about everything and theywere saying how they, how do we
(39:31):
get rid of her?
Like, what's the best way tojust get rid of her?
You know we get her to quit,and so they were basically
talking about piling more workonto this woman so she would
just quit, and it it killed meto hear it and I didn't say
anything because I was afraid oflosing my job, and so it was
(39:51):
right before the holidays thislady had two or three kids and
you know it, it worked.
They piled so much on her andshe got super stressed out and
she was like I'm sorry, I can'tdo it, and she felt guilty.
She's crying that she couldn'tdo it All the while.
They intentionally did this toher and it was just mind blowing
(40:13):
.
Um, I wonder if I can tellsomebody now.
Anyway, um, so I've definitelyseen some things, um, especially
working in HR.
Obviously, for compliancereasons, I can't delve into all
of that stuff, but there's,there's a huge disparity in
organizational practices andwhen it comes to mental health
(40:36):
and just the good treatment ofpeople, it's, it's sickening,
honestly.
Um so, but as far as, yeah,from my experience, it's just,
you know how I was talked to andyou know there was also this
one time for me where I was, youknow, telling an employer.
You know, hey, I'm prettyoverwhelmed in this area.
(40:58):
Is there a way that we can takethis part of my job and spread
it out, the way these otherparts are spread?
Very similar situation, verysimilar project.
And I was told well, how about.
We just talk about ways to makeyou more efficient, and I felt
(41:18):
like that was like the the, thestick that broke the camel's
back for me.
Um, it, just, it, just.
I just didn't understand, likeI felt unseen, I felt unheard, I
felt unsupported, um, and Idon't know if that that is
intentional or not, but, um,people need to be very mindful
(41:39):
and aware of the power of theirwords and, um, you know the
impact it can have on anotherperson's mental health and
wellbeing.
Um, there's this thing I've beenkind of reading about called
trauma informed care, and thereare, slowly but surely, a lot of
organizations that are trainingtheir employees on how to be
(42:01):
more trauma informed, and it'sbasically saying that, um, it's,
the definition is to recognizethe prevalence of ACEs.
Aces are, um what we've talkedabout on a previous episode,
basically adverse childhoodexperiences.
Um, so, be aware of thatprevalence and the behaviors
(42:25):
that can be a result of thetrauma, and in building respect
and kindness, um are the keys tohelping with recovery.
So, basically, moving throughlife with the understanding that
people are very likely, youknow, traumatized from something
(42:46):
that could have happened intheir earlier years and building
policies around that and, youknow, providing resources, um,
and, and you know, wellnessinitiatives for employees to
have access and resourceresources too, because nine,
(43:07):
eight, seven depends on whichgeneration you're looking at
seven times out of 10.
The employee is not going totell you that.
You know, the way you're talkingto me is a is is triggering,
the way that you know you're notseeing me, you're not hearing
me, I'm, I'm stressed, I'mhaving high anxiety levels,
because to them that means, orthey feel that that means you
(43:32):
can't do the job, and mostpeople, in America especially,
are one paycheck away from beinghomeless, and so they feel like
they have to stay at this joband they have to succumb to
whatever treatment that is beingkind of brought down on them.
It's really sad and and I don'tmean to I digress because this
(43:52):
is I think I'm starting to thinkthat this may be something I'm
a little passionate about.
But we won't even jump on thattrain yet.
But I definitely wanted tomention the trauma informed care
piece.
So we're going to take a littlebit of a turn in our the last
part of our hour here.
So, marcel, can you talk about?
(44:17):
So we're going to jump over toaddiction a little bit, and so,
regarding addiction?
Was anyone close to you or inyour family, or not, you know,
passed from addiction?
Speaker 2 (44:34):
You said passed Like passed away from it.
Um… Not that I don't think Iknow of anyone that passed away
from addiction, but I definitelyknow I Found out later on in
life of all of my family membersthat were addicted to any type
(44:55):
of substance abuse.
I'm included my father.
I think alcoholism and sometype of drug abuse was common,
whether it was on my mother sideor my father side.
It was both sides, um, and I'msure there probably have been a
few deaths due to it, but, um, IDon't know of anyone that that
(45:22):
died from some of this abuse.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay, well, I mean, yep, that's, that's totally fine
and it's probably good, becausethat answer is definitely
different for me.
But you, I mean, let's justtalk you know about the impacts
of, you know even what youdiscovered or were Exposed to,
you know on your family and onyour yourself, and you know how
you experience it today.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
So my first Time I was exposed to I mean, well, I
don't really, I don't reallycount marijuana as a drug, but I
do count it as something youcan definitely abuse and that
was something I was exposed to,I think, before Anything else.
(46:13):
My father would Definitelysmoke every day, my sister smoke
, um, my mother smokedcigarettes.
So, um, for me it was like IDidn't like the smell of
cigarettes and I noticed that onmy father's smoke it was.
(46:33):
It was a different smell andthat was like kind of curious.
And then you know, I'm an 80sbaby, born to 88.
So you know, then Friday comesout and you know, as we get
older, a lot of other people wegrew up with they probably start
smoking.
And then you get curious.
So, um, I Was always kind ofcurious.
(46:57):
I pretty much knew At somepoint I was probably gonna try
to smoke some weed and then whenit happened, it didn't really
stop.
Honestly, until a month ago,maybe even two.
It just became a habit.
Um, but I Was exposed to somuch though I mean I found Crack
(47:25):
Somewhere in my father's houseI don't even remember how old I
was and I thought it was likesomebody's tooth or something.
I remember asking them if theywere teeth, just by because of
the way they looked and Later onin life.
And he actually told me that heremembered that and just was
one one of the things he wasn'tproud of um, I Was, I was
(47:49):
selling it myself in high school.
Kids in high school was poppingpills, eat ecstasy pills, so
there was a lot of exposure.
But, um, I Wasn't really ascurious as Most of the kids I
(48:11):
grew up around that they.
They kind of just jumped intoit.
I was a little Cautious aboutit.
But, um, it was always a lot ofexposure very early on and as
far as learning about it, it wasjust a matter of like, kind of
Like.
Life did that for me justseeing people I knew or People
(48:35):
that I remember, like my parents, being around and seeing where
they were later on in life.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
No, um, I think for me it's, it's, it's really, it's
really different in that.
So, like I said, I know so.
My aunt, my great aunt, passedfrom an overdose when I was in
middle school.
Early middle school mygrandmother passed, not from an
(49:09):
overdose but prolonged use ofdrugs.
You know, your important organsstart failing and Can't really
hold on anymore.
My great aunt passed basicallyfrom the same thing.
Her body was just warring downand tore down from alcohol and
drugs.
(49:31):
I, unfortunately, in mychildhood I grew up around a ton
of drug addicts and alcoholicsa ton.
And I only learned this yearthat there are, you know,
support groups for children ofalcohol and drug abusers.
I thought it was just groupsfor those doing it.
(49:52):
So it's called ACA, if you'reinterested adult children of
alcoholic and other you knowdisorders, parents, basically.
But it's ACA.
But anyway, there was this onetime that my aunt who passed
(50:14):
from an overdose, she brought meback some McDonald's and she's
like here, here's your food.
And I grabbed the bag and I goto reach my little hand in there
.
I'm like nine, ten maybe, or onthere, and I stop and I pull my
hand back and I look in the bagFirst because I'm like, oh wait
(50:35):
, you know, I don't know, some,I don't know what it was divine
intervention, my spirit guys,whatever it was, I appreciate it
now looking there and there wasan exposed needle in there and
you know they were I don't knowthe difference doing crack,
heroine, but whichever one youshoot up, that's that was there.
The people around me, I guessthat was their drug of choice
(50:57):
and I Don't know if it was used,prepared to be used, I don't
know.
But whatever, whatever it couldhave poked me, like it was,
there was no cap on it, it wasjust there and she was probably
high and not being careful andwho knows, who knows.
But I think I just screamed andthrew away the bag and my
(51:19):
grandma was like what's going on?
And I told her and, and sheyelled at her put her out and
something.
You know, I don't knowsomething crazy like that.
But I Didn't truly understandwhat it was until Teen years and
by that time I just tried toblock it out because it was like
Like what the heck, you know?
(51:40):
Like just all of that is justlike a mess, like I never want
to do this to myself, I neverwant to use drugs.
They made absolute, absolutepools of themselves, like it was
from from nodding out just toto running around the house
booty naked to you know, almostburning the house down because
they were in a nod and forgotthat the stove was on.
(52:03):
You know, I'm saying like, andas a child I used to yeah,
marcel's, you know, making makeit a face over here, because I
think you probably have some,some stories similar to that,
right?
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Yeah, I think so I don't know if alcoholism was in
fact the reason why, but mygrandmother house burned down
from one of my aunts leaving thestove on and she was an
alcoholic, and that, like thehouse, literally burned to a
(52:35):
crisp.
So yeah, that is an experienceof mine that at the time had no
idea, but Every you know, mymother, my sister, those that
knew her, that's what, that'swhat they say, that they say
that's the reason was was thealcohol.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yeah, that's, that's so sad, because, you know,
imagine somebody got trappedinside.
Oh, I mean, just don't imagine,but it's just, it's just very
unfortunate that you know, it'sanother kind of I feel like us,
as black people, we joke thingsaway to make it more palatable.
You know, it's like everybodygot a cracker uncle, or
(53:18):
everybody got a drunk auntie andit's like, yeah, that's sad,
it's that's, that's, that'sterrible.
You know, like we come fromthat era, the, I guess the
cracker or whatever, where, yeah, like all of our parents,
grandparents, or maybe maybegrandparents more in my age, for
our generation, were were users.
(53:39):
You know, I'm saying cuz thatwas the the 80s, right, wasn't
that the cracker?
Speaker 2 (53:44):
and yeah, yeah that's what everybody says.
But the crazy part about thatwas I was oblivious the whole
time, not knowing that my fatherWas, was on heroin and
everything.
At that time, when I was young,my mother and my sister would
always tell me that he was ondrugs and I, you know, besides,
(54:05):
the one time I just was, I justexplained when I found something
I thought we was all he everdid, and they were always
telling me like, boy, are wetelling you if your father used
to fool around with withdifferent drugs?
so, while Capri is saying thatpeople were like, everybody got
(54:25):
one of those, I'm thinking likewell, that while it may be true,
like I couldn't imagine if oneof my parents was Doing
something like that and it wasin fact going on the entire time
.
So, yeah, I mean it's a trickhow it's one thing to hear about
us, it's another thing when ithits home and when it's like
(54:48):
that close to you and you justnever had any clue and almost
Wonder why certain things Ithink they call it like an
addictive Personality or anaddictive manner or whatnot to
where it's that one thing that'sjust too much of a good thing.
I think that's what had me kindof like Really hooked on
(55:12):
smoking at one.
One part of it was habit, butanother thing was like it was
just so much of a good thing itjust became a part of my life,
like Whatever I was doing, itneeded to be around.
If I'm enjoying myself, Ineeded to smoke.
If I was upset, I shouldprobably smoke and it it seemed
(55:33):
like something that wasn't thatbig of a deal.
But talking about abuse andaddiction, again, just stand on
that topic.
Um, addiction isn't you know?
It's not spelled out for you,and I think when you're, when
you are at the point where youare addicted, you're under the
belief that you're not, andyou're also under the belief
(55:56):
that you have more control overit.
Then you think when in fact, ithas way more control over you
than you do of it.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah, that's true.
That's the perfect segue intomy next question.
I mentioned addictive behaviorsor no addictive personality or
whatever.
So there is this researchcenter called learn genetics in
Utah and they claim that 40 to60% Of addiction risk is based
(56:29):
on genetics.
Do you agree or disagree?
Speaker 2 (56:34):
I, there's no way I couldn't agree with that again.
Um, not knowing, not knowingthat my father was addicted to
anything.
But when I found out it seemedlike everything else just made
sense.
As far as why it was so easy.
It seemed like to becomeaddicted to smoking weed because
(56:55):
, I mean, you know, a lot ofpeople in the past used to
Equate weed with dope in the 80s.
My mom to this day still willcall weed dope.
But our era, compared toeverything else people dealing
with with these opiates andeverything else, it's like weed
(57:16):
is nothing.
But If you don't really knowwhat is in it and you can't just
stop, you got to really askyourself why not?
And Then if you are able tohonestly say that you can't stop
, that means you're addicted.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, I agree, I definitely feel, especially now,
you know, in my older years Iguess that there isn't a genetic
component my aunt and I wouldalways say, like man, we're so
happy that you know, we turnedout different, you know we
(58:00):
didn't have any issues or anydesires to do drugs and we're
not alcoholics and ABCDFG.
But then when I for me, when Ikind of looked at my life, I'm
like, yeah, I feel like Isupplemented it with other
things, Like I used to shop alot, like a lot.
(58:20):
You know, I needed to haveevery like.
When the, when the metros cameout, I needed every.
Every new metro that came out,I had it, every single one.
I had it, I needed it, I neededto.
I was what do you call it?
Trading in my cars and it waslike I want that another, I want
I need something different, Ineed something different.
It was always the need forsomething.
(58:42):
I needed to do it.
It was just.
It was just habit, habit, habit.
And so I feel like it shows upaddictive behavior just because
I wasn't a drug addict or justbecause I or I'm not a drug
addict and wasn't an alcoholicand not an alcoholic.
The addictive behaviors show upelsewhere.
So I definitely agree thatthere there's definitely that
(59:08):
component.
We're almost to the end here,so our next question Do you
think and I think you shed somelight on this already with the
discovery of your father and thethings you shared about
yourself and your father'srelationship, and you know your
experiences with abuse Do youthink it's possible to forgive
someone who suffered fromaddiction or abuse you in your
(59:34):
past?
Speaker 2 (59:36):
I mean, it's always possible to forgive somebody,
but as far as it happening, Ican't.
I can't speak for anybody butmyself.
It took me a while to forgivemy father for the abuse that I
(59:57):
remember and it it wasn't easy,but for me, I think I just
realized that for one, I'mtelling me about his upbringing
and his exposure and hisexperiences and the lack of love
(01:00:23):
that he got from his parents isthe reason why I only got so
much love and or the abuse fromhim.
Saying all that, to say that,while you might not want to
forgive the person, you stillhave to remind yourself of what
(01:00:52):
they didn't know versus what youdo know now.
So if your parents didn't havethe best example of good parents
from their mother and father,then there's, you can expect
(01:01:12):
them to just have a game plan ora tool, a toolbox of things, or
examples of leadership or loveor whatever you would expect
from quote unquote good parents.
And I think that's what helpedme come to the realization that
(01:01:38):
it's not really his fault,because he only knew so much.
And again he told me that hisfather did the same thing to him
that he was doing to me.
So if he never even got even ahug from his father.
It's probably not the firstthing that comes to his mind
(01:02:02):
when when he is thinking abouthis son.
So, on the yeah, just goingback to the forgiving part, for
me it wasn't easy, but I thinkit's always possible.
It's just a matter of whatyou're willing to accept,
(01:02:22):
meaning as far as accept justunderstanding, and then moving
forward instead of staying stuckon what happened in the past.
Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Yeah, I would agree.
I definitely agree, especiallyif the person that you need to
forgive is willing to help youthrough the processing and the
healing of forgiving them.
And you know it's helpful tohave an understanding right of
(01:03:04):
you mentioned it a little bittoo of like where they came from
.
Because if they come from theirown trauma, like most of I mean
, if you like, if you're in mygeneration, in the 80s, or a
generation above me and ageneration below me, it's likely
that your parents came from ahistory of trauma, and so having
(01:03:24):
an understanding of that,sharing stories, sharing
experiences, kind of helps easesome of that hurt, I think, in
my personal opinion.
And so, and if that personisn't ready to go with you on
that journey, because they can'tacknowledge what they did to
(01:03:44):
you, then you have to find ways,through therapy and through you
know, self analysis and selfcare practices, to forgive them.
Without that, my dad has passedon and I can't get a sorry, I
(01:04:05):
can't get an explanation, Ican't get a conversation about
the abuse that I went through,and so I've had to work
endlessly, and I'm still working, to get through that and to
forgive without him, hispresence, and that's hard, it's
(01:04:26):
a very, very hard journey, butit's one that must be taken,
because it's not going to do meany good to carry the anger, to
carry the rage, to carry the theregret.
You know all the stuff thatcomes with it.
So it's definitely possible,with or without the person's
presence.
And so our final question forthis episode is if you look back
(01:04:54):
at your life and you remove theabuse, you remove the neglect,
you remove the addiction, theaddiction that you did
experience or you know withinyourself or with others around
you, you remove the bullying,say you had a healthy,
supportive, normal, quote,unquote life.
(01:05:17):
How different, if you canfathom that, how different do
you think your life would be?
Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
I don't even think I know.
I think for one it would beeasier to quote unquote be
myself, because I felt like thatwas one part that I just never
really knew the answer to orknew who I was.
So that's one thing, and Ithink it would.
(01:05:50):
I would be more I don't knowaccepting or like I wouldn't be
sold, I wouldn't have been sodefensive and ready to kind of
clap back or just you know,ready for somebody to trigger me
so I could respond with thatsame energy.
(01:06:11):
So, yeah, those are the firsttwo things that come to mind.
But on the flip side of that islike I feel that those
experiences made me more awareof, like, who I am now and why
(01:06:32):
I'm able to identify otherpeople's energy or where that
energy comes from, how Imentioned, like, hurt people,
hurt people.
Or when it comes to my fatherand his parenting, due to the
parenting he received, like youonly know what you know.
You know you don't know whatyou never knew.
(01:06:54):
So if he never knew how to be agood parent, or however you
want to word that, you canexpect that and I think from all
the experiences I have fromchildhood up until now, I'm just
able to identify a lot morethan I probably would have been
(01:07:15):
able to if I didn't experienceit.
Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, man, definitely .
I think for me I would be, andhave been, a lot less angry.
I'd be a lot more open to newexperiences and new
(01:07:40):
relationships.
I wouldn't have the trustissues that I have and had.
It would just be different.
But all of your experienceslead you, to lead you to
somewhere, and I agree with you.
I wouldn't be the person that Iam, and I think that I was given
(01:08:03):
my story for a reason, and,although it's been a very long
journey, I'm very proud of whereI've come, how far I've come
from where I started, and so Ithink that I can't live with
(01:08:24):
regrets.
The things that happened to mehappened.
I cannot take that away.
It's just a journey of healingforward and a journey of
forgiveness and a journey ofjust new life and creating new
habits.
And, yeah, just go forward.
(01:08:45):
So that wraps up our episodefor today.
Marcel, my honey, my love,thank you for being here with us
.
I appreciate your vulnerabilityas a black man, coming on and
being authentic and being honest, and you will be back because
(01:09:09):
we have more lined up to pullyou in here.
And so, before we close out, doyou have any last thoughts you
want to share?
Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
No, I will say just again everybody just pay
attention to, like I mentionedearlier, those that are doing
favors and kind of use itagainst you.
Just keep your eyes open.
(01:09:41):
You're definitely not alone inwhatever you went through in the
past, especially with theupbringing.
Like I said, if you were bornin the 80s, I was born in 88.
We probably have a lot ofsimilar stories.
So when you hear this, ifanything, comment and let us
(01:10:04):
know that you experienced thesame thing and maybe let us know
what else you want to talkabout, Because I know I'm not
alone in this.
Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
That's my line.
You just stole it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Okay, let's talk later about that, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Thank you for listening in and joining us and
staying tuned on this journey.
We appreciate you.
As Marcel said, leave a comment, subscribe.
Keep a lookout for followingepisodes dropping every
Wednesday.
Be kind to one another, takecare, be loved Peace.
Hello everyone and welcome back to let's Talk Later
.
I am your host, Capri, andtoday we have a special guest
that will be talking with usaround abuse and addiction and
its effects on families.
We're sharing perspectives anddoing a little bit of Q&A and
having some open dialogue.
Special guests, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, what's up y'all?
This is Marcel.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And Marcel, how do you know me?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh wow.
I think I met you like 11 yearsago and decided to propose to
you and make you my wife at somepoint.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, you're so crazy .
So, yes, this is my husband,marcel, and yeah, so Jaila, our
other host that is usually withme on this mic, is not with us
on this episode, as in.
So It'll Be Just Me and Marceltoday talking, because,
(01:05):
thankfully, she does not havevery much experience in this
area.
For that I am very proud.
So let's get into it.
As I mentioned, today we'll betalking about abuse and
addiction, and so how we'llstart is kind of you know.
(01:27):
I'm just going to share somestatistics around.
You know substance abuse andaddiction.
And so, according todrugabusestatisticsorg and, as
usual, share these links in theshow notes 13.5% of Americans 12
and over have used drugs in thepast month At the time they
(01:49):
took this survey, which was in2020.
You're the pandemic right.
And then 21.4%, or 59.277million people 12 and over were
users of illegal drugs ormisused prescription drugs
(02:09):
within the past year.
And so when we're talking aboutabuse, specifically in the black
communities, 16% of the childpopulation nationally are
African American children andthey make up 30% of the child
abuse and neglect fatalities,and that comes from the black
(02:31):
child legacy campaign.
I think when I first saw that,it was kind of alarming actually
, because 30%, even though it'sa small percentage of the 100%.
We're just talking aboutAfrican American children.
That does not account for AsianAmerican, alaskan, native
American, you know, caucasian,etc.
(02:52):
So that's a pretty big chunk ofthe percentage, unfortunately.
So, yeah, let that sit andsettle for you a little bit.
So with that, we're also goingto cover, you know, a few of our
own personal experiences andperspectives during this
(03:15):
conversation today, so we'lljust jump right into it.
So, marcel, what do you think,or not, what do you think, but
you know, how would you defineabuse?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I don't know.
I mean, you know there'sthere's levels to it, right,
there's physical, mental, but Iwould say it's, for the most
part, I guess, too much ofsomething.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Okay, so too much of something, definitely.
I mean, I agree when, when Ithink about abuse, like the
first thing that comes to mindis physical abuse.
But I mean, you're absolutelyright, it can be mental, it can
be physical, it has differentforms, right?
And I think that when, when wesay abuse I think that's kind of
(04:23):
the popular definition or kindof what comes to anyone's mind
is like, oh, were you abused.
That means, oh, were you hit,you know, were you, like you
know, in a domestic violencetype of situation?
And I think not often enough dowe think or acknowledge the
other types of abuse.
(04:45):
Right, you know, you don't haveto be physically assaulted by
someone to have experiencedabuse, right?
And so when we're talking aboutmental versus physical, like
you know, what are your thoughts?
Like, what do you feel?
Just personal perspective, doyou feel that one is more
(05:05):
traumatic or impactful thananother?
Would you say, in your personalexperience in life, which one
did you come across more?
Which one did you experiencemore?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, as far as I can remember, going back as far as
I can remember as a child, therewas definitely both going on.
I was physically abused.
I feel like just about a goodamount of the African American
(05:43):
community has experienced sometype of you know, whether they
call them whoop ins or spankingsor whatnot.
That was my experience on thephysical side of it.
It was really like seemed likeI forget my sweater at school, I
(06:03):
get a weapon, or I wasn't atschool when it was time for me
to get picked up.
It actually had a lot to dowith school.
It revolved around school asfar as behavior and just my
academic performance.
So that's the first thing thatcomes to mind when I think of
(06:28):
abuse, and it started physical,started off physical and then I
think it became a mental battlealong with that abuse.
I wouldn't say I was abusedmentally as far as being torn
down by words from my parents,because this was my father in
(06:50):
particular that was doing this.
But you know, as a child beingin like second, third and fourth
grade or whatnot, the more thathappens I think you're led to
believe that you're clearly notdoing something right and then
you tend to act out in result ofthat, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, that all makes sense
.
It's interesting.
Why do you think I mean, do youhave an opinion on that?
Like you said, it was largelyaround school.
Why do you think that?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, when it was happening, I can't really
remember what I of course, as achild, you just you don't want
it to keep happening, right?
But then as I got older and meand my father started to speak
more about just his childhoodand mine, he actually let me
(07:57):
know that he had the exact sameupbringing, and in fact it was.
It was.
It wasn't the exact same, itwas a little more intense.
The weapons or the spankingsthat he got was more intense,
more physical.
It left him scarred.
(08:19):
To this day, versus for me.
I'm able to address it with himand with you, as we do in
therapy, but no, at the time youdon't really know what to think
.
It's just evident that you'renot doing something right.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, I'll say it so for me, I feel like I so.
I experienced both mental andphysical abuse in my adolescence
and, before I even go into that, like my mind, I'm like feeling
(09:04):
like I should address something.
So I feel like this is alwayspersonal perspective because, no
, there is no popular opinion,there is no one or two
statistics or beliefs that cancover the entire world, right,
and so I feel like a lot ofpeople will hear this and then
they'll say everybody gotwhooped.
(09:25):
What you mean abuse, like whyare you calling it abuse?
We all got whooped, my mamawhooped me, my daddy whooped me,
etc.
Etc.
Etc.
That is one of the stigmas thatI feel, and many therapists
that I've talked to andcolleagues and friends will
agree that that's one of thestigmas we need to let go of.
(09:46):
That whooping is abuse.
It is Any time that youphysically hurt, harm someone as
a result of something they didthat you didn't like.
I mean, just listen to that.
It is, it's, it's and we were.
(10:07):
A lot of us, unfortunately,were conditioned.
Some will theorize that in thedays of slavery, when we were
whipped, you know, or ourancestors fortunately you know
for us that we weren't in thoseplaces, but our ancestors were
beaten and whipped that thatkind of like was ingrained in
(10:30):
our psyche and that became ourresponse to anger, was to what
was to hit, because that's whatour for generations and
generations and generationsthat's what we've learned was
the correct and appropriateresponse.
And so, anytime you don't youfail to have a conversation and
(10:51):
acknowledge and respect theunderstanding of where a child
is emotionally, developmentally,and instead you choose to lay a
blow.
That is abuse.
Let's just call it what it is,just be real, it is and it's a
cycle that needs to be broken.
So interject with that.
(11:14):
And then, for me, like I said, Iexperienced both mental and
physical abuse.
I would say the physical.
No, you know, I don't.
I don't know, honestly, whichone was more impactful.
I think the mental part of it,but the mental part of it in
response to the physical part ofit, was most impactful.
(11:35):
How I felt after it happened iswhat I feel like was most
impactful for me, because I feellike, honestly, I experienced
them both evenly and so withthat.
So, marcel, like what would yousay like the abuse you did
(11:56):
experience?
Like how do you feel like thataffects you now?
Like how did that affect youLike growing up as a teenager
and, as you know, into yourmanhood, and then the person you
are now?
Like what do you think that didfor you in a positive or
negative light?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, first off, I would say the physical didn't
really, it didn't really haveeffect on me, I would say until
around sixth grade, and then itactually had an effect, so much
to the point it was starting toshow my teacher and yeah, my
(12:37):
teachers were like bringing thisup as far as, like you know, I
mean they're acting out, I'mjust different, or they just
noticed something was different,and I actually took it upon
myself to tell them what wasgoing on.
And again, and that's that's alittle bit where the mental it's
(13:04):
.
It's not quite abuse, but ittakes its toll because, to
backtrack a little bit, speakingon the mental part of it, I was
always picked on by kids.
Whether it was I don't know, Iwas an easy target.
You know, I was always laughingand that was a reason.
(13:25):
Or the clothes I had on didn't,I don't know, look as nice or
didn't have the same name brandas the other kids In this
particular school when I wasthat, I was in sixth grade, my
father had five outfits for thewhole year and that was
(13:46):
something I got picked on.
I think kids realized that, youknow, it's like those same
pants or whatever.
So that became a thing.
So, with the mental part now,always on edge, wondering like
what's the next thing they'regoing to be talking about?
What are they going to pick onme about today?
(14:08):
And that makes me want toemulate someone that doesn't get
picked on, whether they causetrouble or they're just, like
you know, a class clown or whathave you.
So the mental abuse made mewant to be someone else,
(14:29):
thinking that they wouldn't seethat same kid that they used to
pick on.
Maybe now I'll, you know, bethat funny guy instead of that
poor looking guy or a cool guy.
So it didn't really it didn't dotoo much.
(14:49):
I mean, I told the school whatwas going on and they actually
ended up calling a CPS and itturned into a whole other can of
worms.
And the physical abuse led meto be afraid of my father and
instill fear 100 percent.
Just, you know the tone of hisvoice.
(15:13):
Knowing what would set him offor take him off was something I
tried very hard to avoid, andwhen I knew he was getting to
that point I got really nervous.
So I don't know if I'm ramblingon or if I answered the
question, but yeah, that's kindof where it all started was
(15:38):
around sixth grade and what itdid for me.
It just changed me.
It made me want to wear a maskor just not really be myself, or
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That makes total sense.
This is like a quick follow upquestion, so it's.
It sounded to me that you kindof made a turn right.
So when you're talking aboutthe mental abuse and the
physical abuse, but then backingup to the mental, when you were
made fun of, I experienced thatas well when you were made fun
(16:17):
of and picked on, so bullying,do you?
Would you categorize that inthe same area as abuse?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
100%.
Yeah, one thing that I heard itway before I heard Charlemagne
say it, but the phrase hurtpeople, hurt people.
That was really what it alwayswas, because again, as you get
(16:45):
older, you realize that itwasn't you.
It was what they were goingthrough.
So bullying not so much, but Idefinitely got picked on a lot.
I did get bullied a little bit.
There was.
There was some physical abusealone with it, but yeah, it's
(17:10):
either way, it's abuse.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I would agree.
For me, you know, being pickedon anything like mental abuse,
physical abuse they're both mindaltering, right.
They change how you look at theworld, they change how you look
at other people, they changehow you look at yourself.
And so, in addition to beingtorn down from the abuses that I
(17:38):
was experiencing in the home,the bullying and the you know
the ways that I was made fun ofin middle school, more so high
school.
Honestly, I feel like you knowthat transition was a bit
probably my biggest experiencewith the being picked on, but it
(18:03):
did change the way I felt aboutmyself.
I got a lot of remarks andcomments about my body and, you
know, having a child young Don't, don't even get me started that
was huge, for that was like ahot ticket item for kids my age,
(18:25):
because it's like oh, you had akid, oh, you're this, you're
that you should be ashamed.
I can't believe it.
Like I was a subject of thewhispers, and so that changed
how I felt about myself.
It really killed myself, ascene which was already
faltering because of the abusesthat I was experiencing in the
home, and then it was just likethe cherry on top.
(18:45):
So, just, you know, justbullying, as a subset, if you
will, of abuse.
It's really really not lookedat closely enough.
You hear these stories in thenews about these kids in these
schools and parents trying toget the schools and to to
respond and you get the boyswill be boys, girls will be
(19:06):
girls, or they don't payattention and then these kids
commit suicide.
It's scary, it's problematicand I mean it goes way deeper
than you know.
Just kind of a detention.
There needs to be a constantpartnership.
I don't feel like y'allprobably think you know we
always preach him, but it's it'sso true that there needs to be
(19:28):
a constant, this systemic changewith the, the households,
between the households and theadministration in schools,
because that behavior is comingfrom somewhere.
That's for a child to to thinkthat or feel that it's okay to
tear somebody else down based onmaking themselves feel better,
(19:51):
what they're seeing in the home,how they're talked to at home.
You know all of that like it's.
It just creates this very nastyvicious cycle and it's it's
problematic because if it, whatif it were your kid?
What if that picture in thenewspaper or, you know, on the
screen or this?
These days, everybody get theirnews from Twitter or Instagram
(20:12):
or TikTok, you know that picturecould be someone you know, and
so it's very hard to to swallowthat and just kind of go on with
with life, especially as aparent, you know.
And so things that I wentthrough, the things that
(20:32):
Marcel's gone through, like Idon't wish that I would, I would
, I mean I would hurt somebodyabout my, about my kids, you
know, and so it's just there'sjust so much healing to be done.
I can't say that enough.
So onto the next question.
(20:53):
So After, so the effects of,you know, abuse and bullying.
So on that same topic, like Onethat's big for me is, is
workplace bullying.
Have you experienced bullyingin the workplace?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I Think so a little bit.
The crazy part about it is, Ithink it was from a woman and I
Was a kind of new to the job andMe being, you know, just a
joyful, talkative person I am,and that's what I've always
(21:44):
noticed, whether it was at workor again with childhood but some
reason it seemed like my joyand Me being happy and laughing
and stuff just really used totick people off.
And in this particular case, IActually started this job with a
guy I grew up with in my areaor in my neighborhood, and First
(22:09):
thing she said, I think, on ourfirst day, was like you guys
aren't done yet, and it was.
It was it came off as a joke, Iguess, or she meant for it to
come off as a joke, but you knowher presence and everything.
It just it just didn't, itdidn't Come off the right way,
rubbed us the wrong way and Fromthere it was a lot of random
(22:33):
things, like I, we were in awarehouse like Like packing up
boxes.
I'm probably I don't know 21, 22years old or something like
that and Went and got a chair Tosit down while I was working in
.
Soon, as I got up, she comesbehind me and takes the chair
and was like we don't pay you tosit down and work and she's not
(22:56):
a supervisor or anything, she'sthe worker, just like me, and
it was.
It was always her, it wasalways something.
So that, I think, was the onlytime I really experienced
pulling bullying in theworkplace.
Other than that, I think allthe abuse and just the past
(23:20):
experiences had me on defensemode, to where I felt like
anybody was Trying to, I guess,trick me or or trying to Guess
what you call like trying toplay me or something.
(23:40):
I was.
I just always was on defenseand I was always ready to either
get revenge or address somebodyabout it because I Let it
happen for so long before.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
It's very interesting that you bring this up, because
I know exactly what you'retalking about and I remember
those stories that you wouldshare, but what I think also?
So not, but I think also itwould be very interesting and
worthwhile for you to share yourperspective about your manager
(24:17):
and Kind of how, like if youeven realized that was bullying
Before you know, while it washappening, because, as you were
telling, sharing the storieswith me, I definitely felt like
she was a bully.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Tom, I did the same job.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yes, so the manager was more so.
That was more on the mentalside of it.
This was like my manipulation101, to where she was able to
Convince us or make us believethat she was doing us such a
(24:55):
favor that, for example, if shewanted to have, like, a team
meeting after work, that wewould be Disrespectful to ask
for overtime, or evendisrespectful to say that we
have to leave.
Like, if we have to leave andand she wants to talk two or
(25:18):
three hours after the shift isover, then we don't care about
her, or the job isn't thatimportant, or what not.
To where?
Yeah it it.
It's like a, it's like reversepsychology, right, you're?
You know, you're thinking like,wow, am I really that rude or
am I really that inconsideratewhen, yeah, I'm saying this to
(25:41):
my wife Capri Well, she wasn'tmy wife at the time, but I'm
telling her this and she'stelling me like this, this isn't
right, and I'm Still believinglike, no, she's doing me a favor
, she's already done so much,and, yeah, thinking about it now
was like, yeah, wow, I didn'teven realize it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, definitely a narcissist, and I hope that she
has changed her ways in herlater years in life, because I
just, I can only imagine thenumber of people falling victim
to employers like that, managers, supervisors, what have you.
That's just, that's just crazy,you know.
(26:22):
And even in relationships, ifyou think about, like romantic
relationships, where you havesomeone and they're like they
buy you a car and they buy yousome shoes and they give you
some money, and like youthinking, man, this person is
awesome and you know, few monthsdown the line or a year down
the line, it's like remember allof those things I did for you.
(26:45):
You can't do this for me.
I need you to stay here and Ineed you to let so and so live
with you and I need you to payfor this.
And then, all of a sudden, allof this change behavior comes
and they're constantly throwingit back in your face of what
they did for you and Another.
You know just my manipulationand so just being aware of how
(27:06):
people treat you and respond toyou, and you know being okay
with Responding back and sayingyou know, hey, that's not cool,
or I won't accept that, or Idon't have to accept that.
Many people Unfortunately feellike they do, because they got
to pay the bills.
You know, I got to keep thisjob.
I can't lose this job.
(27:26):
You know, and I would love toactually have you back on here
to talk more about your outsideof job endeavors, because we're
so proud of him.
He just passed his exam, hisreal estate exam, and so big
things are coming and it's kindof I'm just so proud.
I'm not gonna say too muchbecause I want to like maybe a
(27:50):
little mini interview about howthings are going and maybe talk
to the Listeners about otheroptions.
Then I got to keep this job,and not saying that having a job
is terrible, but you know, it'sjust.
There's a mentality to itBecause I always say I don't
desire to be an entrepreneur.
(28:11):
It just has to be the rightorganization, a supportive,
healthy, resourcefulOrganization, which I'm still
looking for.
But anyway, off that subjectand Moving forward.
I think for so and for me.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Well, just real quick to go back to that manager and
in the Mental abuse that Iwasn't aware of it, it it took
effect so much or carried overso much to where you thought
that the manager like eitherwanted to sleep with me or I was
(28:56):
sleeping with her, or somethinglike that.
And Just because it was like itdidn't make any sense to you,
but it was almost like I wasdefending her, it like it kind
of came off like like it wassome kind of unknown or unspoken
relationship.
And Once I really realized whatwas going on and Decided to
(29:23):
quit, because actually what ledup to that was, I Think I was
actually borrowing your car Ididn't have a car at the time
and and you had the worst luckwith it, things just kept
happening.
So then I'm like sitting in thecar just eating lunch on a
regular day, happen to be undera tree and, what do you know,
(29:45):
some acorn or something comesfrom the tree and cracks the
windshield.
So I'm freaking out like manthere's already been things
going on with their car Like Idon't want to tell her, but I
have to tell her.
But like how, at least let meget it fixed first.
So, going back to the manager.
She knew someone To come by andactually got it fixed before I
(30:08):
even got off of the ship.
The day I wanted to quit Iactually went and got the money
to pay her back because she saidI didn't need to pay her back
but it just never.
I was never okay with that.
Oh, I never wanted people tohang that over my head.
So I made sure I got the moneyback.
But when I went to tell herthat I quit, she brought that up
(30:30):
and I'm like stop right there,here's your money, right here.
And, um, I Don't remember whatled up to her saying it, but
when I said I wanted to leave,um, she was like, of course, I
don't want you to leave, you,fucking idiot.
And it was like, and she wascrying and and I think that's
(30:51):
when it dawned on me like you,this, this is this.
Like something else is going on, something.
There was something more wasgoing on that I just had no clue
about, and everything Capri wastelling me about before Was
starting to just make sense.
I'm saying all that to sayBefore I did feel like I needed
(31:12):
to keep the job because it wasprobably one of the first ones
I've had, or it was like thefirst time I got permanent and
was able to keep a job for awhile, so I felt like I should
hold on to this.
I was getting a certain amountwhen I was a temp and then I got
a little more money when I gotpermanent.
But yeah, it was literallyabused just about the entire
(31:36):
time and I didn't feel bad atall when I left and just
everything before started tomake sense after that.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So I'm going to defend myself just a little bit.
Yes, I did make some commentsabout her possibly wanting or
being obsessed with him orsomething, because you would say
things and it was just weirdlike how she would respond to
you, like she owned you and Iremember, I think, what did I
(32:09):
have?
A wisdom tooth extraction.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And you asked her to leave earlier the time off to
come pick me up or take care ofme or something, and she was
like upset.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah.
So I told her that I needed totake the day off because you had
to take some kind of medicine,where they literally said, like
you can't drive or anything.
So I'm telling her I have to gopick her up and take her back
home, and her response was,quote do you need to hold her
hand too?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And listen to that.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That was where, like yeah, that was I think that was
probably the beginning of Caprithinking like yeah, like she
likes you something's up,something's up and yeah, yeah,
it even had me thinking about ita little longer.
Like now, that is kind of likethat's weird, like it shouldn't
even be, it's either.
No, you can't do it because Ineed you to work or go ahead
(33:03):
family first or whatnot.
But like yeah, needing to knowif I have to hold her hand, like
it's a very snide remark andit's very inappropriate.
Actually, it's justinappropriate.
It's not, it's yeah.
So again, that's just moreevidence to not knowing what was
going on until after the fact.
When we think about it now,it's like, yeah, that was.
(33:24):
That was pretty crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, so if you have a boss that reminds you of this
at all, if this resonates withyou, run by a new job
immediately yeah because no oneneeds to be in a position with
someone like that.
And yeah, it's just, that's justcrazy.
I'm ever the optimistic, I liketo see the best in people and
(33:50):
it's to this day.
I still am surprised bypeople's behaviors.
Like people really do stufflike that, Like well, I mean,
one of the reasons that you knowJaila's not here is she had an
interview and, to you know, wewanted this to be a dedicated
podcast for this.
You know these topics which shedoes not have experience again,
(34:13):
Clap, clap.
But she was on an interviewtoday and there was a woman who
was just just rude and just verysnarky, snide comments, like in
interview process, and it justlike always throws me because
(34:33):
it's like really Like, what isyour deal?
Like I know people go throughthings hard time.
She probably going through adivorce and might have lost her
house, I don't know.
But that's never to me, that'snever a justification for being
nasty to other people,especially someone you don't
know and has.
No, has nothing to do with thesituation.
(34:56):
So so I will share, unless youhad something else, I was just
going to share my experiencewith workplace bullying.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, I was just going to close with um.
Just stand on the topic ofabuse, right, and just the
experience I had at that job,just for everybody listening, I
guess, as far as signs or riffflags.
Going back to what I said aboutthat manager, you know she used
the manipulation as far as likefavor.
She was doing the things shedid.
(35:26):
I would say always payattention to stuff like that.
In my case, again, I was in abad relationship before I met my
wife and things got so bad towhere kind of like carried over
at work and she kept me hiredthere even though all of this
(35:46):
stuff was going on.
So that's why I felt like shewas always doing me this favor,
because I'm thinking she couldhave fired me and she didn't,
and so I'm kind of just lettingthings happen or whatever she
needed.
I feel like I'm in debt to her.
So just always pay attention toum, I guess, the income and the
(36:08):
outcome, especially when itcomes to a supervisor or a boss
or whatnot, because you knowslavery is still alive and well.
Whether you're getting whippedor not, it's still slavery.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
So yeah, word up.
So for me, I have experienced,so I've worked at the same
organization for a lot of yearsand before that I worked at
(36:48):
startups and retail and thingslike that.
I think, just in general, Ihave a bunch of like little
instances where you know I'vebeen with bosses who were, who
definitely brought theiremotions to work and you could
tell that everything you cantell when somebody's an
(37:10):
overshare, that they're probablybringing all of that emotion to
work when they come andcomplain about their
relationship, or oh, that's, youknow, I'm waiting for him to
propose and he hasn't proposedyet.
Or oh, my kids, this there's.
There's a fine line betweengetting to know someone and
building relationship and trustand oversharing, for you know
(37:35):
different reasons, you knowattachment styles or trauma or
PTSD or whatever.
But unfortunately, I had theopportunity to work with several
women who had, you know,difficulties in life and chose
to bring those to work and so asa result, you know I was yelled
(37:56):
at, you know the whole fingerwagging when you're telling your
like your dog, no, don't be onthe carpet.
That was done to me in my face,and how dare I?
And I've had missedopportunities with other
positions because, you know mysupervisor chose to tell them I
was not ready to move forward,solely because they wanted to
(38:17):
keep me on board and didn't wantto deal with recruitment and
retraining.
I've I've heard, you knowfaculty professors, people that
are supposed to be experts, andyou know the leaders of their
areas of research, say you know,as far as, like you know, black
(38:41):
people I mean African Americansor whatever they want to call
themselves like make commentslike that.
That wasn't directly to me, Iwas just passing.
I've seen situations where youknow employers want to get rid
of an employee.
This one time we had thisemployee who she was struggling
(39:03):
to start.
She was very early in theposition and just needed some
extra support and all they kepttalking about.
They talked so freely.
It's kind of crazy because youknow you would think people
wouldn't be so free speaking allthe time, but they talked so
freely about everything and theywere saying how they, how do we
(39:31):
get rid of her?
Like, what's the best way tojust get rid of her?
You know we get her to quit,and so they were basically
talking about piling more workonto this woman so she would
just quit, and it it killed meto hear it and I didn't say
anything because I was afraid oflosing my job, and so it was
(39:51):
right before the holidays thislady had two or three kids and
you know it, it worked.
They piled so much on her andshe got super stressed out and
she was like I'm sorry, I can'tdo it, and she felt guilty.
She's crying that she couldn'tdo it All the while.
They intentionally did this toher and it was just mind blowing
(40:13):
.
Um, I wonder if I can tellsomebody now.
Anyway, um, so I've definitelyseen some things, um, especially
working in HR.
Obviously, for compliancereasons, I can't delve into all
of that stuff, but there's,there's a huge disparity in
organizational practices andwhen it comes to mental health
(40:36):
and just the good treatment ofpeople, it's, it's sickening,
honestly.
Um so, but as far as, yeah,from my experience, it's just,
you know how I was talked to andyou know there was also this
one time for me where I was, youknow, telling an employer.
You know, hey, I'm prettyoverwhelmed in this area.
(40:58):
Is there a way that we can takethis part of my job and spread
it out, the way these otherparts are spread?
Very similar situation, verysimilar project.
And I was told well, how about.
We just talk about ways to makeyou more efficient, and I felt
(41:18):
like that was like the the, thestick that broke the camel's
back for me.
Um, it, just, it, just.
I just didn't understand, likeI felt unseen, I felt unheard, I
felt unsupported, um, and Idon't know if that that is
intentional or not, but, um,people need to be very mindful
(41:39):
and aware of the power of theirwords and, um, you know the
impact it can have on anotherperson's mental health and
wellbeing.
Um, there's this thing I've beenkind of reading about called
trauma informed care, and thereare, slowly but surely, a lot of
organizations that are trainingtheir employees on how to be
(42:01):
more trauma informed, and it'sbasically saying that, um, it's,
the definition is to recognizethe prevalence of ACEs.
Aces are, um what we've talkedabout on a previous episode,
basically adverse childhoodexperiences.
Um, so, be aware of thatprevalence and the behaviors
(42:25):
that can be a result of thetrauma, and in building respect
and kindness, um are the keys tohelping with recovery.
So, basically, moving throughlife with the understanding that
people are very likely, youknow, traumatized from something
(42:46):
that could have happened intheir earlier years and building
policies around that and, youknow, providing resources, um,
and, and you know, wellnessinitiatives for employees to
have access and resourceresources too, because nine,
(43:07):
eight, seven depends on whichgeneration you're looking at
seven times out of 10.
The employee is not going totell you that.
You know, the way you're talkingto me is a is is triggering,
the way that you know you're notseeing me, you're not hearing
me, I'm, I'm stressed, I'mhaving high anxiety levels,
because to them that means, orthey feel that that means you
(43:32):
can't do the job, and mostpeople, in America especially,
are one paycheck away from beinghomeless, and so they feel like
they have to stay at this joband they have to succumb to
whatever treatment that is beingkind of brought down on them.
It's really sad and and I don'tmean to I digress because this
(43:52):
is I think I'm starting to thinkthat this may be something I'm
a little passionate about.
But we won't even jump on thattrain yet.
But I definitely wanted tomention the trauma informed care
piece.
So we're going to take a littlebit of a turn in our the last
part of our hour here.
So, marcel, can you talk about?
(44:17):
So we're going to jump over toaddiction a little bit, and so,
regarding addiction?
Was anyone close to you or inyour family, or not, you know,
passed from addiction?
Speaker 2 (44:34):
You said passed Like passed away from it.
Um… Not that I don't think Iknow of anyone that passed away
from addiction, but I definitelyknow I Found out later on in
life of all of my family membersthat were addicted to any type
(44:55):
of substance abuse.
I'm included my father.
I think alcoholism and sometype of drug abuse was common,
whether it was on my mother sideor my father side.
It was both sides, um, and I'msure there probably have been a
few deaths due to it, but, um, IDon't know of anyone that that
(45:22):
died from some of this abuse.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay, well, I mean, yep, that's, that's totally fine
and it's probably good, becausethat answer is definitely
different for me.
But you, I mean, let's justtalk you know about the impacts
of, you know even what youdiscovered or were Exposed to,
you know on your family and onyour yourself, and you know how
you experience it today.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
So my first Time I was exposed to I mean, well, I
don't really, I don't reallycount marijuana as a drug, but I
do count it as something youcan definitely abuse and that
was something I was exposed to,I think, before Anything else.
(46:13):
My father would Definitelysmoke every day, my sister smoke
, um, my mother smokedcigarettes.
So, um, for me it was like IDidn't like the smell of
cigarettes and I noticed that onmy father's smoke it was.
(46:33):
It was a different smell andthat was like kind of curious.
And then you know, I'm an 80sbaby, born to 88.
So you know, then Friday comesout and you know, as we get
older, a lot of other people wegrew up with they probably start
smoking.
And then you get curious.
So, um, I Was always kind ofcurious.
(46:57):
I pretty much knew At somepoint I was probably gonna try
to smoke some weed and then whenit happened, it didn't really
stop.
Honestly, until a month ago,maybe even two.
It just became a habit.
Um, but I Was exposed to somuch though I mean I found Crack
(47:25):
Somewhere in my father's houseI don't even remember how old I
was and I thought it was likesomebody's tooth or something.
I remember asking them if theywere teeth, just by because of
the way they looked and Later onin life.
And he actually told me that heremembered that and just was
one one of the things he wasn'tproud of um, I Was, I was
(47:49):
selling it myself in high school.
Kids in high school was poppingpills, eat ecstasy pills, so
there was a lot of exposure.
But, um, I Wasn't really ascurious as Most of the kids I
(48:11):
grew up around that they.
They kind of just jumped intoit.
I was a little Cautious aboutit.
But, um, it was always a lot ofexposure very early on and as
far as learning about it, it wasjust a matter of like, kind of
Like.
Life did that for me justseeing people I knew or People
(48:35):
that I remember, like my parents, being around and seeing where
they were later on in life.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
No, um, I think for me it's, it's, it's really, it's
really different in that.
So, like I said, I know so.
My aunt, my great aunt, passedfrom an overdose when I was in
middle school.
Early middle school mygrandmother passed, not from an
(49:09):
overdose but prolonged use ofdrugs.
You know, your important organsstart failing and Can't really
hold on anymore.
My great aunt passed basicallyfrom the same thing.
Her body was just warring downand tore down from alcohol and
drugs.
(49:31):
I, unfortunately, in mychildhood I grew up around a ton
of drug addicts and alcoholicsa ton.
And I only learned this yearthat there are, you know,
support groups for children ofalcohol and drug abusers.
I thought it was just groupsfor those doing it.
(49:52):
So it's called ACA, if you'reinterested adult children of
alcoholic and other you knowdisorders, parents, basically.
But it's ACA.
But anyway, there was this onetime that my aunt who passed
(50:14):
from an overdose, she brought meback some McDonald's and she's
like here, here's your food.
And I grabbed the bag and I goto reach my little hand in there
.
I'm like nine, ten maybe, or onthere, and I stop and I pull my
hand back and I look in the bagFirst because I'm like, oh wait
(50:35):
, you know, I don't know, some,I don't know what it was divine
intervention, my spirit guys,whatever it was, I appreciate it
now looking there and there wasan exposed needle in there and
you know they were I don't knowthe difference doing crack,
heroine, but whichever one youshoot up, that's that was there.
The people around me, I guessthat was their drug of choice
(50:57):
and I Don't know if it was used,prepared to be used, I don't
know.
But whatever, whatever it couldhave poked me, like it was,
there was no cap on it, it wasjust there and she was probably
high and not being careful andwho knows, who knows.
But I think I just screamed andthrew away the bag and my
(51:19):
grandma was like what's going on?
And I told her and, and sheyelled at her put her out and
something.
You know, I don't knowsomething crazy like that.
But I Didn't truly understandwhat it was until Teen years and
by that time I just tried toblock it out because it was like
Like what the heck, you know?
(51:40):
Like just all of that is justlike a mess, like I never want
to do this to myself, I neverwant to use drugs.
They made absolute, absolutepools of themselves, like it was
from from nodding out just toto running around the house
booty naked to you know, almostburning the house down because
they were in a nod and forgotthat the stove was on.
(52:03):
You know, I'm saying like, andas a child I used to yeah,
marcel's, you know, making makeit a face over here, because I
think you probably have some,some stories similar to that,
right?
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Yeah, I think so I don't know if alcoholism was in
fact the reason why, but mygrandmother house burned down
from one of my aunts leaving thestove on and she was an
alcoholic, and that, like thehouse, literally burned to a
(52:35):
crisp.
So yeah, that is an experienceof mine that at the time had no
idea, but Every you know, mymother, my sister, those that
knew her, that's what, that'swhat they say, that they say
that's the reason was was thealcohol.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yeah, that's, that's so sad, because, you know,
imagine somebody got trappedinside.
Oh, I mean, just don't imagine,but it's just, it's just very
unfortunate that you know, it'sanother kind of I feel like us,
as black people, we joke thingsaway to make it more palatable.
You know, it's like everybodygot a cracker uncle, or
(53:18):
everybody got a drunk auntie andit's like, yeah, that's sad,
it's that's, that's, that'sterrible.
You know, like we come fromthat era, the, I guess the
cracker or whatever, where, yeah, like all of our parents,
grandparents, or maybe maybegrandparents more in my age, for
our generation, were were users.
(53:39):
You know, I'm saying cuz thatwas the the 80s, right, wasn't
that the cracker?
Speaker 2 (53:44):
and yeah, yeah that's what everybody says.
But the crazy part about thatwas I was oblivious the whole
time, not knowing that my fatherWas, was on heroin and
everything.
At that time, when I was young,my mother and my sister would
always tell me that he was ondrugs and I, you know, besides,
(54:05):
the one time I just was, I justexplained when I found something
I thought we was all he everdid, and they were always
telling me like, boy, are wetelling you if your father used
to fool around with withdifferent drugs?
so, while Capri is saying thatpeople were like, everybody got
(54:25):
one of those, I'm thinking likewell, that while it may be true,
like I couldn't imagine if oneof my parents was Doing
something like that and it wasin fact going on the entire time
.
So, yeah, I mean it's a trickhow it's one thing to hear about
us, it's another thing when ithits home and when it's like
(54:48):
that close to you and you justnever had any clue and almost
Wonder why certain things Ithink they call it like an
addictive Personality or anaddictive manner or whatnot to
where it's that one thing that'sjust too much of a good thing.
I think that's what had me kindof like Really hooked on
(55:12):
smoking at one.
One part of it was habit, butanother thing was like it was
just so much of a good thing itjust became a part of my life,
like Whatever I was doing, itneeded to be around.
If I'm enjoying myself, Ineeded to smoke.
If I was upset, I shouldprobably smoke and it it seemed
(55:33):
like something that wasn't thatbig of a deal.
But talking about abuse andaddiction, again, just stand on
that topic.
Um, addiction isn't you know?
It's not spelled out for you,and I think when you're, when
you are at the point where youare addicted, you're under the
belief that you're not, andyou're also under the belief
(55:56):
that you have more control overit.
Then you think when in fact, ithas way more control over you
than you do of it.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah, that's true.
That's the perfect segue intomy next question.
I mentioned addictive behaviorsor no addictive personality or
whatever.
So there is this researchcenter called learn genetics in
Utah and they claim that 40 to60% Of addiction risk is based
(56:29):
on genetics.
Do you agree or disagree?
Speaker 2 (56:34):
I, there's no way I couldn't agree with that again.
Um, not knowing, not knowingthat my father was addicted to
anything.
But when I found out it seemedlike everything else just made
sense.
As far as why it was so easy.
It seemed like to becomeaddicted to smoking weed because
(56:55):
, I mean, you know, a lot ofpeople in the past used to
Equate weed with dope in the 80s.
My mom to this day still willcall weed dope.
But our era, compared toeverything else people dealing
with with these opiates andeverything else, it's like weed
(57:16):
is nothing.
But If you don't really knowwhat is in it and you can't just
stop, you got to really askyourself why not?
And Then if you are able tohonestly say that you can't stop
, that means you're addicted.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, I agree, I definitely feel, especially now,
you know, in my older years Iguess that there isn't a genetic
component my aunt and I wouldalways say, like man, we're so
happy that you know, we turnedout different, you know we
(58:00):
didn't have any issues or anydesires to do drugs and we're
not alcoholics and ABCDFG.
But then when I for me, when Ikind of looked at my life, I'm
like, yeah, I feel like Isupplemented it with other
things, Like I used to shop alot, like a lot.
(58:20):
You know, I needed to haveevery like.
When the, when the metros cameout, I needed every.
Every new metro that came out,I had it, every single one.
I had it, I needed it, I neededto.
I was what do you call it?
Trading in my cars and it waslike I want that another, I want
I need something different, Ineed something different.
It was always the need forsomething.
(58:42):
I needed to do it.
It was just.
It was just habit, habit, habit.
And so I feel like it shows upaddictive behavior just because
I wasn't a drug addict or justbecause I or I'm not a drug
addict and wasn't an alcoholicand not an alcoholic.
The addictive behaviors show upelsewhere.
So I definitely agree thatthere there's definitely that
(59:08):
component.
We're almost to the end here,so our next question Do you
think and I think you shed somelight on this already with the
discovery of your father and thethings you shared about
yourself and your father'srelationship, and you know your
experiences with abuse Do youthink it's possible to forgive
someone who suffered fromaddiction or abuse you in your
(59:34):
past?
Speaker 2 (59:36):
I mean, it's always possible to forgive somebody,
but as far as it happening, Ican't.
I can't speak for anybody butmyself.
It took me a while to forgivemy father for the abuse that I
(59:57):
remember and it it wasn't easy,but for me, I think I just
realized that for one, I'mtelling me about his upbringing
and his exposure and hisexperiences and the lack of love
(01:00:23):
that he got from his parents isthe reason why I only got so
much love and or the abuse fromhim.
Saying all that, to say that,while you might not want to
forgive the person, you stillhave to remind yourself of what
(01:00:52):
they didn't know versus what youdo know now.
So if your parents didn't havethe best example of good parents
from their mother and father,then there's, you can expect
(01:01:12):
them to just have a game plan ora tool, a toolbox of things, or
examples of leadership or loveor whatever you would expect
from quote unquote good parents.
And I think that's what helpedme come to the realization that
(01:01:38):
it's not really his fault,because he only knew so much.
And again he told me that hisfather did the same thing to him
that he was doing to me.
So if he never even got even ahug from his father.
It's probably not the firstthing that comes to his mind
(01:02:02):
when when he is thinking abouthis son.
So, on the yeah, just goingback to the forgiving part, for
me it wasn't easy, but I thinkit's always possible.
It's just a matter of whatyou're willing to accept,
(01:02:22):
meaning as far as accept justunderstanding, and then moving
forward instead of staying stuckon what happened in the past.
Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Yeah, I would agree.
I definitely agree, especiallyif the person that you need to
forgive is willing to help youthrough the processing and the
healing of forgiving them.
And you know it's helpful tohave an understanding right of
(01:03:04):
you mentioned it a little bittoo of like where they came from
.
Because if they come from theirown trauma, like most of I mean
, if you like, if you're in mygeneration, in the 80s, or a
generation above me and ageneration below me, it's likely
that your parents came from ahistory of trauma, and so having
(01:03:24):
an understanding of that,sharing stories, sharing
experiences, kind of helps easesome of that hurt, I think, in
my personal opinion.
And so, and if that personisn't ready to go with you on
that journey, because they can'tacknowledge what they did to
(01:03:44):
you, then you have to find ways,through therapy and through you
know, self analysis and selfcare practices, to forgive them.
Without that, my dad has passedon and I can't get a sorry, I
(01:04:05):
can't get an explanation, Ican't get a conversation about
the abuse that I went through,and so I've had to work
endlessly, and I'm still working, to get through that and to
forgive without him, hispresence, and that's hard, it's
(01:04:26):
a very, very hard journey, butit's one that must be taken,
because it's not going to do meany good to carry the anger, to
carry the rage, to carry the theregret.
You know all the stuff thatcomes with it.
So it's definitely possible,with or without the person's
presence.
And so our final question forthis episode is if you look back
(01:04:54):
at your life and you remove theabuse, you remove the neglect,
you remove the addiction, theaddiction that you did
experience or you know withinyourself or with others around
you, you remove the bullying,say you had a healthy,
supportive, normal, quote,unquote life.
(01:05:17):
How different, if you canfathom that, how different do
you think your life would be?
Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
I don't even think I know.
I think for one it would beeasier to quote unquote be
myself, because I felt like thatwas one part that I just never
really knew the answer to orknew who I was.
So that's one thing, and Ithink it would.
(01:05:50):
I would be more I don't knowaccepting or like I wouldn't be
sold, I wouldn't have been sodefensive and ready to kind of
clap back or just you know,ready for somebody to trigger me
so I could respond with thatsame energy.
(01:06:11):
So, yeah, those are the firsttwo things that come to mind.
But on the flip side of that islike I feel that those
experiences made me more awareof, like, who I am now and why
(01:06:32):
I'm able to identify otherpeople's energy or where that
energy comes from, how Imentioned, like, hurt people,
hurt people.
Or when it comes to my fatherand his parenting, due to the
parenting he received, like youonly know what you know.
You know you don't know whatyou never knew.
(01:06:54):
So if he never knew how to be agood parent, or however you
want to word that, you canexpect that and I think from all
the experiences I have fromchildhood up until now, I'm just
able to identify a lot morethan I probably would have been
(01:07:15):
able to if I didn't experienceit.
Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, man, definitely .
I think for me I would be, andhave been, a lot less angry.
I'd be a lot more open to newexperiences and new
(01:07:40):
relationships.
I wouldn't have the trustissues that I have and had.
It would just be different.
But all of your experienceslead you, to lead you to
somewhere, and I agree with you.
I wouldn't be the person that Iam, and I think that I was given
(01:08:03):
my story for a reason, and,although it's been a very long
journey, I'm very proud of whereI've come, how far I've come
from where I started, and so Ithink that I can't live with
(01:08:24):
regrets.
The things that happened to mehappened.
I cannot take that away.
It's just a journey of healingforward and a journey of
forgiveness and a journey ofjust new life and creating new
habits.
And, yeah, just go forward.
(01:08:45):
So that wraps up our episodefor today.
Marcel, my honey, my love,thank you for being here with us
.
I appreciate your vulnerabilityas a black man, coming on and
being authentic and being honest, and you will be back because
(01:09:09):
we have more lined up to pullyou in here.
And so, before we close out, doyou have any last thoughts you
want to share?
Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
No, I will say just again everybody just pay
attention to, like I mentionedearlier, those that are doing
favors and kind of use itagainst you.
Just keep your eyes open.
(01:09:41):
You're definitely not alone inwhatever you went through in the
past, especially with theupbringing.
Like I said, if you were bornin the 80s, I was born in 88.
We probably have a lot ofsimilar stories.
So when you hear this, ifanything, comment and let us
(01:10:04):
know that you experienced thesame thing and maybe let us know
what else you want to talkabout, Because I know I'm not
alone in this.
Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
That's my line.
You just stole it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Okay, let's talk later about that, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Thank you for listening in and joining us and
staying tuned on this journey.
We appreciate you.
As Marcel said, leave a comment, subscribe.
Keep a lookout for followingepisodes dropping every
Wednesday.
Be kind to one another, takecare, be loved Peace.
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