October 18, 2023 • 53 mins
Parentification, a term touching the very core of some of our shared experiences and a complex subject that brings up a whirlwind of emotions for us. What happens when children are thrust into adult roles prematurely, carrying a burden that should've been left for their later years? Join us, as we pull back the curtain on our own lives, exploring the dynamics of our mother-daughter relationship marred by the confounding roles we've had to play.
From Jaylah juggling roles as a sister, daughter, and an unexpected mother figure to her younger siblings, to the emotional impact of caregiver absences, this episode dissects the raw intricacies of our family dynamics. We delve into how Jaylah's grandmothers' declining health forced her into a premature caregiving role, and how Caprie's resentment of her own imposed adolescence has shaped her relationship with Jaylah. We also explore the various effects of parentification and how it can echo into adulthood, leaving long-lasting impressions.
As we journey deeper into this challenging subject, we underscore the importance of family bonds, the painstaking process of rebuilding them, and the striking impact adult conflicts can have on children. We shed light on the significance of knowing one's family, while emphasizing the necessity of maintaining boundaries during tough conversations. By candidly discussing mental health in the black community, unhealed trauma, anxiety, depression, and the need for open conversations, we aim to help others grappling with similar situations. Listen in as we navigate this deeply personal journey and explore resources related to parentification and its effects.
Resources:
What is Parentification? https://www.newportacademy.com/resources/mental-health/parentification/#:~:text=Parentification%20occurs%20when%20a%20child,child%27s%20physical%20and%20mental%20health.
Parentification: Types, Causes, and Effects: https://www.verywellmind.com/parentification-types-causes-and-effects-7090611
UCLA: Parentification Assessment: http://chipts.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/01/Parentification_0.pdf
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome back to let's Talk Later.
I'm your host, Capri, and I'mJaila, and today we don't have
any prompts, we are just gonnahave an open discussion.
So we're gonna do things just alittle bit different.
Our topic today we are going totalk about that.
(00:23):
The term is coinedparentification.
It's basically taking on adultresponsibilities before you're
ready to do so.
So we're here, we're recordingin the morning hours of the day
and we've got some good energy.
Jaila, as usual, I'm checking in.
(00:44):
How are you feeling?
Good, Good, Good.
You know people we have toeventually record in person
because visually, so you can see, Jaila's face is there.
I can't get over it.
But any who so jumping right in, we are gonna just share some
(01:09):
experiences, Like I said, haveopen discussion and give you a
little bit of background andjust in this first season of
let's Talk Later, it's gettingto know us and our story and is
who we are as individuals and asmother-daughter.
So, yeah, jump right into it.
(01:32):
Parentification so basicallyit's when caregivers look to
their children for emotional orpractical support rather than
providing it themselves.
Said child becomes parentifiedand assumes those adult
(01:52):
responsibilities leading to thepossibility of a number of
factors into their adolescenceand adulthood, such as
codependency, stress, anxiety,feelings of self-doubt.
The list goes on and on and on.
So I think let's just start offby talking about our
(02:17):
experiences.
Jaila, I think I'd love to hearfrom you just regarding what
your experiences were being andfeeling parentified.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I mean, I guess, growing up I didn't have
siblings growing up until I waswhat, 10?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Somewhere around there.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
That's when I found out that not only was I not the
only child, but I had threeyounger siblings and we kind of
just started to get to know eachother and things like that.
And my dad I don't remember.
I think I met them before mydad got out of prison and then
we kind of already built like alittle connection, me and my
(03:08):
siblings, and then he got out ofprison, but at the time I would
only see my siblings at mygrandma's house, but she was
really sick so it was hard forher to take care of three kids
at a time, so I kind of had tostep in and be the babysitter
quote unquote while we were allat grandma's house and I don't
(03:33):
know if, like, my siblings, feelthat way, but I felt like
everything relied on me, likecooking, cleaning.
My sister needed to wash herhair.
I had to teach her how to washher hair, Not saying that their
mothers weren't involved, butwhen they were at grandma's
(03:53):
house it was oh well, Jaila isgoing to do it, figure it out,
get it done.
And I think that caused a lot ofresentment towards, like a lot
of people, especially my dad,because it's like God, I'm
taking care of your kids thatyou didn't even have like the
(04:16):
audacity to tell me about.
Like I was raised thinking likeit was just me, I don't know.
I just feel like I lost a goodchunk of my childhood because I
spent a lot of time at mygrandma's house, because I
really like loved her and Iwanted to be around her and I
knew that it came with mewatching my siblings.
So I kind of just roughed itout.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay.
So just you know, for clarity,I think you mentioned like as
far as the expectation, right?
Do you feel like you justassumed that role?
Or like, how did that look foryou?
As far as like, because Icorrect me if I'm wrong, though
(05:04):
I don't believe someone saidJaila, this is your
responsibility, right?
And so how do you, why do youthink you assumed that role?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Because if I didn't do it no one would have did it.
It would, just it wouldn't havebeen done, like not saying.
Like grandma did as much as shecould but she couldn't be as
consistent because she didn'tfeel good, she had she was going
through heart failure andsometimes getting out of bed was
extremely hard for her and itwas like, well, what are we
(05:35):
gonna do Not eat?
Like somebody's gotta do it,like somebody gotta make sure we
eatin' something?
Yeah, and I mean it was justkind of like they were younger
than me, so it was either me ornobody.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
That's interesting, um, just in comparison.
Like I mean, I had a kid rightearly.
We already we've been over that, talked about that, but even
still, I don't think I ever likeI was told to do things.
(06:17):
Not really, I don't think Iever assumed it.
So it was just interesting themindset of coming from because,
like you, were an only child forme for the longest time and
like, how did that feel?
Like can you remember, like howyou felt before you met your
siblings and then after, just asa child and your
(06:39):
responsibilities and what, justwhat I don't know, just your
emotional journey was, you know,during that transition?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I mean, I was really like before meeting my
siblings.
I was kind of the youngersibling with Lee, and so I felt
like a little kid, like oh, Icould throw a tantrum, I'm gonna
get what I want because I'm thegirl and you know, you just
have like oh, like just do youfree, like you have nothing to
(07:11):
worry about.
Like I don't you just havenothing to like stress about
anything.
And the second, that like notthe second.
But after meeting my siblings Ijust felt like I had to grow up
.
Like it's no, I think that's Idon't know, but I think that's
when I realized like I starttaking life serious, kind of
(07:34):
being like hello, you ain't gotnobody else to ask, so like for
help right now.
Like, bro, you better figurethis out.
Like I remember making chickenby myself, like putting it in
the oven and being so worriedLike I don't know how to make
chicken, like I'm like 11 yearsold and I'm like stressed out
(07:54):
about making chicken, whereasbefore this I was stressed out
about Lee not wanting to playwith me, like but yeah, it was
like a life, like my life justcompletely changed.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You know what's even more interesting?
You sound like me when I hadyou, like I released a child
from my body and it was like,hey, life is serious, I got to
figure this out.
And something in your brain,like, did the same switch for
(08:28):
children that weren't yours,that's.
And if you hear any elevationin my voice, it's not that it's
frustrating for me, it wasbefore, but it's just.
I think it's hard for me tounderstand and also Maybe it is
(08:54):
a bit frustrating, and justbecause I remember these
situations right, because I wasthere too.
I mean, not there with them, butI would take her over there and
I would always say, jayla, youdon't have to take care of them,
you don't have to do this, youdon't have to do that.
(09:15):
And I would talk to hergrandmother and say, you know,
jayla feels like she got to doit and I don't appreciate her
feeling like she has to takecare of these kids.
But I don't know, I didn't knowkind of what else to do because
, like she said, she wanted tobe there.
You wanted to be there, thatwas your grandmother, you loved
(09:37):
her and you wanted to have arelationship with your siblings
and I wanted you to as well.
So it was, I guess, just verycomplicated, just in general.
But do you ever like?
So two questions.
The first question do you everregret the way it all played out
(10:03):
?
Do you wish maybe I shouldn'thave gone over there so much, or
maybe I should have.
I wish my mom wouldn't have letme go over there.
I wish you know somethingdifferent, you know?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yes and no, not to make it seem like everything
over there was negative, becauseI still had like really good
moments as a child, but it's oneof those situations where it's
like, did it do me more goodthan bad or did it do me more
bad than good?
Like I can't say, because it'slike, yeah, I was I wasn't quote
(10:43):
unquote forced to grow up, butkind of like, hey, you gotta do
what you gotta do.
And once again, I loved mygrandma.
So it's like, no, I wanted tospend as much time as time with
her as I could.
I think more, I regret more isnot speaking up, like and
telling, like, saying somethingto my auntie, to my dad, like yo
(11:07):
, I'm raising these kids, help,do something.
You know, maybe if they wouldhave heard me say that, they
would have been like dang, likewe aren't really doing anything
to help.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, yeah, that was my second question.
Did you ever say anything toyour dad?
Nope, like nothing at all.
I mean, I feel like that's anunfair question.
It's a question of curiosity,not like you should have said
something.
Because you were a child.
You shouldn't have had to tellan adult that they weren't doing
(11:40):
what they needed to do, but I'mjust genuinely curious if you
ever mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I don't remember, I don't, I don't feel like I did.
Yeah, I don't know, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, I mean, maybe you didn't, I feel, I feel like
I remember something, but it'scloudy and maybe that could have
been an opportunity, a missedopportunity for me, because,
although I talked to I talked toyour grandmother about it, I
(12:18):
didn't, I didn't.
Yeah, it was, it was.
It was a lot of friction, verytense, you know, between her
father and I, for obviousreasons, and so it was.
Yeah, there's a lack ofcommunication there, but, yeah,
you know, it's no, no point for,for regret, I guess, and that's
(12:41):
why we're talking about it andfeeling through right now.
So, do you think, just in allof kind of all of the
responsibilities you took on,like, how do you think they've
affected you now?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh, I always assume the mother role and all my
friendships.
Like everyone can always say ohwell, if we need somewhere to
go, we're going to Jaila's house.
If we need something to eat, noJaila going to cook.
If we need somebody to take apicture, she going to take the
picture.
Like it's always been like this, like no one's making me do
(13:24):
this stuff, but it's like I justhave this now like motherly,
like oh, it's fine, like I'llfigure it out, like I'll help
you, like don't worry about it,I got it.
Like we're going to get throughthis.
It's a good it was.
It was a hard thing to havebecause at one point I would
take on everybody's likeemotions and everybody's
(13:46):
problems and be like, oh my God,like I'm so drained because I'm
taking everybody else's stuffin on top of my own stuff.
And now that I've gotten olderand I and I recognize this I'm
not as mad as I used to be aboutit.
I think it's a very good traitto have.
I think it's very rewarding tohear people say like you're the
(14:10):
person I go to, like I know Ican always trust you and depend
on you.
I think that just shows howgood of a person I am, so I
don't like to think of it aslike a negative anymore, and I
do create my boundaries now.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's important.
You definitely, even with me,you you like, in a number of
ways, like you kind of take onthat role, almost like I am the
mom, right, and so I, you know,have my role.
But Jaila will still like, kindof like mom me, you know it's,
(14:52):
I'm like I, you know, and Ithink that's partially because I
mean, yes, we in essence grewup together and so it's kind of
like, while it's very mother,daughter it's, it's also a like
a sister element a little bit,and good, bad, I don't know,
(15:15):
depends on the day, I guess, butit's like mom, you know you
shouldn't be doing that, mom.
Why are you letting them saythat to you?
And mom, why are you notspeaking and why are you not
like?
She's come in, like, like whileI was working or doing
something and you need torespond to that email and you
need to say this and like, like,like, for real, I'm like, and
(15:36):
it's crazy, because it's likethe one part of me is like, get
out of here, I'm your mama, andthen the other part is like, is
she right though, because Ireally should do these things.
So, and then with her littlebrother, she's like I'm his mom
when you're not here.
This is, this is my second child.
I'm like, but, jaila, I don'tput that on you, you put it on,
(15:57):
you take it on.
Like I don't like even likebabysitting.
I like will think it over a lot.
Like, should I ask her is thisreally important?
When the last time I asked herhow's her day been, I like think
through like what she's told meand like it like like homework
is like what she's doing withschool, and be like, nah, I
ain't going to ask her now, wedon't need to go nowhere because
(16:17):
I, just as far as, like I don'tknow, being parentified, I
didn't assume the role of motherfor my siblings.
I also, jaila and I it'scoincidentally, cosmically,
universally, whatever.
Our stories are very similar inthat I didn't know I had
(16:37):
siblings until I was nine, 10.
No idea.
And then I found, when I foundout, there were already three
others, you know.
So it was like okay, and so Ithink that I can empathize with
you in that space, because notonly are you, were you finding
(16:59):
out that you have otherrelatives that you knew nothing
about.
You're an older sister to thesekids, but your grandma's also.
Her health is declining, yourdad is still absent and spotty
and whatever you want to callthat, so that I think that's a
(17:20):
lot at one time, and maybe itwas almost like your defense,
like, okay, this, I never hadthis, so let me be this, and not
that you never had a mother,but you never like the nurturing
, supportive piece in that area,like, oh no, these siblings,
(17:42):
because even today I feel, likeyou say that a lot like they
can't feel what I felt, like youknow, I didn't have my dad, I
didn't have a dad like for avery long time, and so I have to
make sure that I'm there forthem because he's not here, you
know, and he's not been here andall these things.
(18:02):
And so it seems and feels likeit was a number of things,
because I know for me it was, Idon't know it was for me it was
actually kind of excitingbecause the same thing, just
like you had Lee, I had Toya, soit was like, oh well, I didn't
(18:26):
feel like a little like the onlychild because I had this like
aunt who was like four yearsolder than me, so it was like
she was pretty much like mysister and so, but still, like I
said, I never assumed like, oh,I gotta take care of them.
Because that was I didn't livein the same household as them.
We didn't meet at agrandmother's house or anything
(18:46):
until like much later, where Imoved in with two of them and my
dad and his wife, and it wasonly you know, she cooked.
I mean, we cleaned, like I hadchores and stuff, but it was
never like you gonna take careof these kids.
The only thing it was like howbad.
(19:07):
You know, no hard feelings ifyou listen it was like you gonna
watch these kids.
Like when they went somewhere ordid something, it was like it's
not a can you, it was a you'regoing to.
It was like and my dad wouldliterally say I'm not a
babysitter and I'm like, butyou're their dad, okay.
(19:27):
And so that built someresentment because it was like I
mean, I was already a mom,right, and so I had that
responsibility.
But at that time your dad wasvery active, your grandma was
very active, and so when I hadlike a free weekend because they
wanted you and they wanted totake you somewhere, I was being
(19:48):
made to watch other kids.
So I'm like I don't even havemine.
Why am I being made to sit,still sit and still not be able
to go and just do what I want todo.
You know, maybe this weekend,huh, and so that built up some
(20:08):
resentment, that built up someneeds for outlet.
And so I feel, like you know, mylike teens, my like late teens,
early 20s, I was carelessbecause of that, because I was
like I need to just not like, Ineed an outlet, and so I
(20:33):
sometimes I got too drunk orsometimes I party too much or
things of the sort, but I meanthat's.
I think you know that happenswhen your journey through your
youth is interrupted, right, andnot saying like and I'm saying
(20:55):
that to you like it wasinterrupted very much for a lot
of reasons, and so it's like youfind ways to feel that I think,
like you know, you're, like Isaid, partying and things, and
(21:17):
for me it was a lot of partying,a lot of drinking, this
careless stuff, relationships.
So it's just really interestinghow those stories are so
similar.
But, speaking of Lee, one daywe really hope to have him on
here so you all can hear fromhim, cause I think his story is
(21:39):
also very interesting, cause heand Jaila were very close.
People always thought they weresister and brother.
You know, he looked nothinglike they just both light skin,
but they for the longest time,like they went to all the same
schools, did everything together.
(22:00):
You know, I just remember somany stories.
Every time Lee got in trouble itwas because somebody was
messing with Jaila.
He was chasing people around,he was trying to fight people
because they were messing withJaila.
And I think I think you well, Imean I'm not making that
assumption but Jaila, I thinkyou said that like like at a
certain point everybody knew youreleased cousin and like people
(22:24):
really didn't say too much toyou because he had built up that
you know, if you talk to, ifyou say anything to her, you
know this is what's going tohappen.
And he wasn't big and scarylooking but he was quiet and I
think you know people were likeno, no, you're a little too
quiet.
You might be one of those quiet, crazy people.
(22:44):
But yeah, he, I don't know ifwe can ever get him on the show,
but it would be interesting tohave him and ask him some
questions.
So I was reading through it'slike a questionnaire from UCLA
(23:06):
that they give to kind of assesshow parentified you are, and
they have some very interestingquestions, and I say interesting
because Jaila and I we reacheda point in our relationship
where, well, I think this cameup on a previous episode in the
(23:29):
podcast as well where you wantedto be more open with you
because you could tell anywaywhen I was like stressed about
something right, or if somethingwas going on and I
intentionally didn't sharethings.
And so it's interesting on thisassessment they have that
(23:51):
there's.
I'll read a couple of questions.
So if you answer often or veryoften to either of these
questions, that's the moreparentified you were, and so a
couple of them are.
Your parents asked you foradvice when making decisions.
Your parents shared intimatesecrets concerning relationships
(24:13):
and or sexual issues with you.
Your parents discussed theirfinancial issues and problems
with you.
Your mother shared personalproblems or concerns with you as
if you were another adult.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know that.
I feel like that's probably forthe generic family you give me,
saying like we're not the,we're the modern day family, I
would say.
But a lot of these studies aredone with white, traditional
families A mother who was 40years old and a daughter who was
(24:49):
15.
They're, traditionally speaking, much more you know,
traditional I guess, but likethat I don't think those studies
are done with parents who havechildren at 14 years old and we
grow up together and it's justgonna be a completely different
relationship, and those weren'tthings that in the beginning,
(25:15):
you did not share these thingswith me at all.
It was me who was like mom bruh,just tell me, bruh, like just
tell me, because I just need toknow.
But yeah, so I don't know, Idon't.
When I see those studies, Ican't apply them to us because
we are not the traditionalfamily that these studies were
(25:37):
done, because I could also saythe exact opposite too, though
that your concerns are minebecause we are so like.
Like just remember, we werejust talking about how I was
like I can always feel yourenergy, like if you're stressed
out, like I feel like I'm onedge, like it just makes me
(26:00):
anxious.
I just need to know what'sgoing on so that I can just
realize that this is not mefeeling this stuff.
This is just you going throughyour thing, though.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I mean, and you're likely very right, it is
a very different dynamic.
I mean, I didn't look for thedata so I didn't see, like the
population that they surveyed,but you're probably right, it's
a more traditional family, or Imean traditional air quotes for
(26:34):
whatever that means.
That are probably answeringthese questions, but it just
struck me as huh, you know, likethey're saying that if this
happened then you were likelyparentified.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
By the person, because I don't feel like you
made me feel, like, like youknow, like I had to be trying to
think.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Like you, like you had to take assume adult
responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I tried not to.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
That's why I'm like yeah, that's why this would be
kind of like mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, there's others.
I mean, well, this is I guessthere are a lot of questions on
here for, like you know, twoparent households, so that's a
difference, Well, but therethere are also.
The other half of theassessment is kind of a lot
about what you said.
As far as your siblings words,you baby sat your younger
(27:42):
siblings when your parent orparents were away for more than
24 hours.
You were the main personassuming responsibility.
You were responsible forbathing your siblings, so just a
lot of like yeah, there's,there's a good mix of questions.
I guess it's like 32 questionson this assessment.
(28:04):
They do it so, but I did want topoint that out because I know
that was kind of like our thingbecause you were the only child
and I was, am still a very youknow, I got it type of person,
to my detriment, unfortunately,but I'm working on it and so I
did and and be again because ofyou know, with the babysitting
(28:27):
thing, because of my ownexperience, I've like tried to
be very intentional about notputting adult responsibilities
on you ever, but I do know thatthere were effects just maybe
not the parentified effects, butthere were effects, I'm sure,
(28:48):
from my decisions as a young momon you and that just I mean
that just goes without saying.
So, speaking back to siblingsand kind of late discovery, I
don't know if maybe you sharedthe number total of y'all is on
(29:12):
this on the podcast.
If you don't remember, ifyou're just tuning in, there are
eight of them.
Yeah, eight of the eightsiblings and there are seven
siblings and there are seven.
For me, I think I think thereare seven.
So what do you think?
Like I know for me, I am such ajay look on me a simp.
(29:38):
I don't know if that's just forrelationships or if that's just
just in general.
Okay, so I'm not a simp.
She says just for relationships.
I mean I am whatever.
Anyway, I love love, just ingeneral.
I will watch movies aboutfamilies, like this Christmas
and what's the other one, now,why did I get married?
(30:03):
Than people or family.
But just anyway, just moviesabout like soul, food and stuff
like that, families comingtogether and doing things
together, and you know there'llbe a group of sisters and
brothers and they'll all getcabins and hollanda holidays and
get together.
They'll pop out of house.
You know I crave and desirethat so much and it's in.
(30:26):
I've never really I've neverhad that.
So it's interesting how I craveit so much.
But but I do so is I mean,how's that for you?
Like?
Do you desire to have thiskumbaya moment with all of y'all
during the holidays, oranything like that?
Nope, Okay.
(30:53):
So why do you think?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
that is because I, I just feel, like you know that,
saying where it's like, oh, it'stoo late to make things right.
I know that, okay, okay, bevery transparent here.
I'm only close with my twosisters from my dad and my
(31:19):
little brother from you.
My other little brother, Idon't know, I think it's going
to.
It's not that it's too late forme.
With him it's more like I don'tknow like it's.
(31:39):
It's just it's a lot to have to.
You know, he was young, they hedid not, probably did not
realize the things I was goingthrough with that family.
You know, whereas Maya and Iwere old enough to kind of like
remember what was going on, theyprobably didn't understand it.
But with him I just be feelinglike you're too young, you were
(32:03):
too young, and I'm not going tobeat down your dad, I don't want
to hear about him, I don't wantto.
You know, things like that,like I don't have no problem
with that, but I just feel likehe's not going to understand
where I'm coming from and I justrather not even do that to
(32:25):
either one of us.
And then the youngest, for samesituation I've never met them a
day in my life.
They don't even probably know Iexist and it's not.
It's not the fact that Iwouldn't, because if they did
come to me, in all honesty Iwould talk to them, but I'm not.
(32:47):
Look on the lowest of keys.
I'm so tired of putting myenergy into things that I didn't
break.
I did not make this wrong.
I just feel like I don't knowif that's even a good thing to
say or not, because there are,they are kids.
But I'm just like man.
I've done so much of my ownhealing and trying to make
things work that right now,where I'm at, I don't have any
(33:10):
extra energy to try and bringthis family together.
I need someone else to do itand I will not put that on
myself, because I put enough onmyself and finally let that
stuff go.
If they want to reach out to meand fix it, totally fine, but I
will not.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Okay, I get it, and at this no, no, I won't even say
at the same time I don't.
I do get it because again,cosmically similar relationship,
similar situation.
(33:51):
I have younger siblings and Ithink I think, especially when
they're younger it's hardbecause your brother is your
second brother.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
He's maybe teen.
Yeah, 13 maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Okay, so I also have a teenage brother who I did not
grow up with, closely with orany of that, and I think that
when they're in that ageespecially, it's difficult as an
adult to reach them becauseit's like number one.
(34:30):
What are you all going to talkabout?
I mean like, and I mean whatare you all going to talk about?
Like, like casual conversationstarters to even like, initiate
some kind of like bond, right,because you're so much older,
even though you're not so mucholder, but you kind of are as
like what?
(34:50):
Eight years, nine, nine yearsdifference, and then two like I
feel like, especially teen years, like I stick to the
subscription that like teen toearly twenties, you don't really
care about that kind of stuff.
You like it's like out of sight, out of mind, like if you're
(35:13):
not around me every day, I don'tcare.
You're like, oh yeah, I gotolder sister, yeah, whatever,
like big deal.
You know it's all about likefriends, like that, like those
ages, the friends are the mostimportant thing, not family.
I'm not saying that's wrong,right, I think that's just how
we develop in our adolescence is, the friendships are more
(35:35):
important, especially when we'rein our teen years, and so, like
with one of my sisters.
We like the trauma between inthe family kind of happened when
she like was younger and so itbecame the same kind of distance
, because I was trying to removemyself from a situation and in
(35:58):
doing so, right, remove myselffrom anyone in that household
involved in the situation.
So I made several attempts tolike reconnect and it was always
so awkward because she was inthat teen fate where it was like
, look, what do you want?
(36:18):
Like that's kind of that'sreally how I felt I would get.
The response I would get forher was like, what do you want?
And because I have my own, myown stuff, it was like, oh no,
my feelings are hurt, she hatesme, I'm a terrible person.
I ran away and only after shewas like mature and an adult was
it finally like okay, we cantalk, like we can really talk
(36:41):
because you now have aperspective to help you
understand where I came from andI have a perspective and can
understand where you came from.
So not saying that healing andconnection can't happen in those
ages.
I think it's just much, muchharder, and especially for you
with the latest four.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
They're all under 10, right Under five, I think no,
under six, I don't know Under 10will just be safe there.
They are.
Somebody might be six.
No, okay Six.
I think that's a good answer.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
As you say, yeah, okay, my God, they're all small
people and so with that, right,you I mean it's not like you
could just call it in oranything Like you'd have to go
through their parents and youdon't speak to their parents.
So it's like, how can youconnect?
Yeah, it's not on you, youdon't own that.
(37:37):
You can't own that because youonly have you.
And so I think that is a nicesegue into like a big part of
this.
You know, parent-ified childrenand like the after and
long-term effects are, andcontributing factor is adults,
(38:04):
caregivers and their problemsand how it affects children and
also leads to parent-ified kids.
So I think that, for with me, Ihad the kind of the same issue
is that when I cut everyone offand in my dad's household,
(38:28):
getting away from traumas, youknow, it became kind of a I was
then an adult, so it was adultshad the problem.
So I didn't speak to the wife,she didn't speak to me and
therefore I didn't connect withthe kids, because those are her
kids, I'd have to talk to her toget to them, and so I think
(38:51):
that that's also complicated,right.
So I mean, do you feel likethat's pretty much what you like
?
I know you say you don't careright now because you don't own
that and all of these things.
But like what do you think justabout adults and their drama
and affecting kids?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I mean I've dealt with it like from you and your
conflict with people, but I knowit's going to be a cycle,
because I don't like my dad norhis wife, and I know that if I
do ever have kids, they willnever meet either one of them
(39:34):
and they will never get thechance to, you know, kind of
meet their grandpa.
Like you know, I'm gonna justcall myself, I'm like this is my
dad.
That's all you need to know, andit's just going to be an
endless cycle.
And I bet that the youngestones are going to have the same
(39:56):
problem.
They're probably not going tolike me because they're like,
wow, where have you been?
And then I'm going to have totell them about how crappy their
dad was and they probably won'tbelieve me because that's not
who they've experienced and it'snot something that I want to
keep passing down, because beingthe being around, that is like
man.
But I think it's harder though,because you know, with your
(40:21):
situation I was very, very, veryclose with you, know the person
, and once you guys kind of gotinto it, it not only took away
that person but two of my othervery close family members as
well.
So it was more, it was a biggerimpact than if it was somebody
(40:41):
I never met before.
I don't care, but because ofthat relationship it made it
more hurtful.
I guess.
Like dang, I wish I would havejust fixed this, bro.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, yeah, it does suck because it changes.
I mean, you know, just when youhave, you know, as an adult or
whatever, when you have conflictwith with you know another
adult, especially in the family,and y'all have children that
(41:18):
spend time together and you know, enjoy one another, that it
affects them, because if y'alldon't like each other, you
aren't speaking and it's awkwardand tense, then how are the
kids going to connect, you know,and then it creates it.
Just, it can't help but createawkwardness and tension amongst
the kids as well.
(41:38):
And, honestly, the situation Istill, like to date, can't fully
remember what that, where thatcame from, like how that even
happened.
I really can't, like I I likehow it started, like I can think
about some things, but I thinkbecause the both of us grew up
(42:03):
in a very dysfunctionalenvironment.
We, where we never learned howto connect and how to initiate
healthy conversation, we, justwe both developed an avoidance
and so I think when things, whenlife start really happening and
(42:25):
things got complicated, it waslike no, just avoid that person.
Because now we have all ofthese.
What is, what is this?
This term I just learned,anxious attachment, where you
automatically either it's eitheranxious attachment or avoidant
attachment, where youautomatically assume the person
(42:46):
thinks the worst of you and youstart making up in your head all
of these reasons.
Why, like, if someone doesn'tanswer your call or they don't
answer your texts right away, orlike these are things that
really happened to me, or if youtake too long to respond, it's
(43:08):
like you, you wanted to say no,you you didn't want to speak to
me.
Or you, what did I do wrong toyou?
You, like you, you start goingthrough these things and you
know, making up these storiesand then that makes the
communication hard becausepeople don't want to deal with
that.
You know, people havecompletely separate intentions.
(43:30):
I was in the shower, I was, Iwas busy, I was working, I was
stressed, I was trying to dowhatever, I mean, whatever, like
, it's just not always in attackon you and I've experienced
these things.
I've, I saw, in two ways.
I've done these things andthese things have happened to me
, and so that's, those arefactors in which caused the
(43:54):
tension in this, in thatrelationship, and I think that
it's very unfortunate.
Even today, I still make a lotof attempts to try and correct
and and you know, acknowledgeand address those things, but
(44:17):
everything takes two.
It takes.
It takes both people in thesituation to come together and
say, okay, let's just talk aboutwhat happened.
And you have to be ready forthat, you have to be open to it,
you have to be, you have tohave your boundaries, your
talking boundaries.
You have to have all of thesetools coming into a conversation
(44:38):
like that, because it's noteasy, especially if you have
trauma, you have PTSD, you arethe child of an alcohol or you
know drug over user, whatever,and so it's it's.
It's very complicated, but thatdoesn't mean it's impossible.
You just have to want to do ithonestly, just be willing to
(45:00):
have the tough conversations.
So, yeah, I think with withyour, I don't know with your,
with your siblings and mysiblings, I don't know.
I think it's just hard to sayhonestly, I, I have.
(45:20):
I have, course, hope for bothsituations.
I really hope that.
I mean, I don't, I don't knowhis wife, but I just hope that
one day she recognizes theimportance of her children,
knowing all of their family andnot just a select number,
(45:43):
because that is important.
And I hope for my siblings thatwe all recognize and appreciate
connection with each other andhow that could benefit.
It's just, it's just a benefit.
I feel like there's norelationship like the bond
between siblings.
I really don't like.
(46:04):
I feel like it's an amazing,necessary, impactful bond and
it's just, it's something that Iwant, I want it.
So if there's any question, andyou're listening, I want it.
I am in favor of that.
So what do you think, jayla,just about like kids, who like
(46:34):
or not kids?
I guess, when kids becomeadults, so say, you're like 35
and you got like three kids andthey like old enough, who are
like you know so and I'm askingthis question because I just met
a cousin of mine why didn't he?
I haven't even met him inperson yet still, but I've never
known anything about him and heactually shared with me that
(46:57):
his kids were dating each otherbecause they didn't know about
each other.
Thankfully, it didn't go anyfarther than the second date
because they started talkingabout family and like who's your
father and who's what's yourlast name?
And they both came to him andwas like dad.
He was like, oh man, and so thatwas his turning point.
(47:20):
He made sure all I don't evenfive of his kids.
I think he's like y'all have toknow each other, like right now
, like it's sad that it tookthat long, but it could happen.
It could happen.
So, with that in mind, right,like, what do you think would be
(47:40):
like, or do you think there'dbe a benefit in coming together
somehow to figure out of theserelationships?
Speaker 2 (47:53):
If I were a kid that mean you mess with my little
sister, Like was that what youwere talking?
Speaker 1 (48:02):
about.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
What Like if one of my kids start talking to one of
my little sisters.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Or they kids Bro.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I better pray, bro.
I don't know what you want meto do.
That's why I'm leaving thisstate.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Okay, but they're in another state and they might
leave the state man.
There are eight of y'all.
There's a possibility thatsomebody could end up in the
same area.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, I better get a DNA test on the first date,
which I want me to do, so youwant me to.
I'm gonna go find I'm not evengoing.
I'm gonna look and be like Ithink you, my sister, you better
ask who they cousins is.
Every black person know that.
Though that ain't gonna do me,I'm not gonna have no family
reunion and you finna, no Talkto these people first, get to
(48:47):
know them, first Meet theirparents.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, before you go, little down Meet their parents.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
You gonna see that it's that.
It's you gonna be like, hmm,what's your last name in Before
you got married?
Always ask that question what'syour maiden name?
Yup.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I mean, you could at least expose them to them, right
Like here, like you know.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I don't have no pictures of them, kids.
How would I do?
Speaker 1 (49:14):
that you could get.
You've shown me pictures.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, through sky.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
You could get pictures, Okay maybe at Sky's
wedding.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
I hope she get married.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Oh, she just like me At Sky wedding.
They all gonna meet.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
They all gonna meet at Sky wedding.
Sky might actually be the one,can we all?
Be, friends To connecteverything.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
No.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
I'm just getting.
She might be.
Honestly, she might be the onebecause she's.
It sounds like she's the onlyone from from y'all group that
knows everything about what theydoing and knows y'all.
And I say y'all group becauseit's like it's these four, right
, it's you and then yours, thensister, sister, brother, and
(50:00):
then on with the new family orwhatever you call it.
It's sister, sister, sister,brother, same thing.
And Sky is kind of, yeah, itseems like the only one that's
on both sides.
So, sky, it's on you, man.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
It's not on you.
Call your daddy.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
It's yeah, it's true, it's not, it's definitely not.
Well, I think we've come to astopping point Before we go.
I do want to share that and asusual resources will be in the
show notes that if you areparentified or you feel you have
(50:46):
been parentified, or if youhave, you know, parentified your
child or other children, justthat I think the best approach
is acknowledgement and therapy.
I know that so many of us inyou know, so many of us black
(51:08):
folk are still struggling withtherapy and talking through
problems and even acknowledgingthat we have problems and
situations and issues to talkthrough.
But if you're recognizingthings in yourself or in your
children that are similar to youknow what we've kind of
(51:32):
discussed here today then it'sworth a shot to at least
acknowledge you know what couldbe going on, because there are
long term effects and we all I'msure I've heard of these, you
know kind of hot button wordslike anxiety and trauma and
depression, and there's just somany of us way too many of us, I
(51:55):
can't say it enough walkingaround here unhealed and you
know a lot of these situationscould be, you know, at least
chipped away at with just simplediscussions.
So there'll be some links tothat assessment that I was
talking about with thosequestions, so you can ask those
(52:18):
questions to yourself or to afamily member, and also a couple
of articles aroundparentification, what it is, its
effects and so forth.
So we're going to take this out,take this one out, and you know
we're dropping another episodeagain every Wednesday.
So keep an eye and an ear outand you know we hope to, in the
(52:43):
next season, have guests for youto talk to.
We're going to start liningthose up.
So you know, just keep yourawareness and let us know what
other comments and topics andthings you'd like to hear from
us.
We're doing some reviews andsome other perspectives on some
(53:04):
things you know outside of theemotional realm, but that is the
playground on which we live.
So until next time we're out,take care.
Hello and welcome back to let's Talk Later.
I'm your host, Capri, and I'mJaila, and today we don't have
any prompts, we are just gonnahave an open discussion.
So we're gonna do things just alittle bit different.
Our topic today we are going totalk about that.
(00:23):
The term is coinedparentification.
It's basically taking on adultresponsibilities before you're
ready to do so.
So we're here, we're recordingin the morning hours of the day
and we've got some good energy.
Jaila, as usual, I'm checking in.
(00:44):
How are you feeling?
Good, Good, Good.
You know people we have toeventually record in person
because visually, so you can see, Jaila's face is there.
I can't get over it.
But any who so jumping right in, we are gonna just share some
(01:09):
experiences, Like I said, haveopen discussion and give you a
little bit of background andjust in this first season of
let's Talk Later, it's gettingto know us and our story and is
who we are as individuals and asmother-daughter.
So, yeah, jump right into it.
(01:32):
Parentification so basicallyit's when caregivers look to
their children for emotional orpractical support rather than
providing it themselves.
Said child becomes parentifiedand assumes those adult
(01:52):
responsibilities leading to thepossibility of a number of
factors into their adolescenceand adulthood, such as
codependency, stress, anxiety,feelings of self-doubt.
The list goes on and on and on.
So I think let's just start offby talking about our
(02:17):
experiences.
Jaila, I think I'd love to hearfrom you just regarding what
your experiences were being andfeeling parentified.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I mean, I guess, growing up I didn't have
siblings growing up until I waswhat, 10?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Somewhere around there.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
That's when I found out that not only was I not the
only child, but I had threeyounger siblings and we kind of
just started to get to know eachother and things like that.
And my dad I don't remember.
I think I met them before mydad got out of prison and then
we kind of already built like alittle connection, me and my
(03:08):
siblings, and then he got out ofprison, but at the time I would
only see my siblings at mygrandma's house, but she was
really sick so it was hard forher to take care of three kids
at a time, so I kind of had tostep in and be the babysitter
quote unquote while we were allat grandma's house and I don't
(03:33):
know if, like, my siblings, feelthat way, but I felt like
everything relied on me, likecooking, cleaning.
My sister needed to wash herhair.
I had to teach her how to washher hair, Not saying that their
mothers weren't involved, butwhen they were at grandma's
(03:53):
house it was oh well, Jaila isgoing to do it, figure it out,
get it done.
And I think that caused a lot ofresentment towards, like a lot
of people, especially my dad,because it's like God, I'm
taking care of your kids thatyou didn't even have like the
(04:16):
audacity to tell me about.
Like I was raised thinking likeit was just me, I don't know.
I just feel like I lost a goodchunk of my childhood because I
spent a lot of time at mygrandma's house, because I
really like loved her and Iwanted to be around her and I
knew that it came with mewatching my siblings.
So I kind of just roughed itout.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay.
So just you know, for clarity,I think you mentioned like as
far as the expectation, right?
Do you feel like you justassumed that role?
Or like, how did that look foryou?
As far as like, because Icorrect me if I'm wrong, though
(05:04):
I don't believe someone saidJaila, this is your
responsibility, right?
And so how do you, why do youthink you assumed that role?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Because if I didn't do it no one would have did it.
It would, just it wouldn't havebeen done, like not saying.
Like grandma did as much as shecould but she couldn't be as
consistent because she didn'tfeel good, she had she was going
through heart failure andsometimes getting out of bed was
extremely hard for her and itwas like, well, what are we
(05:35):
gonna do Not eat?
Like somebody's gotta do it,like somebody gotta make sure we
eatin' something?
Yeah, and I mean it was justkind of like they were younger
than me, so it was either me ornobody.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
That's interesting, um, just in comparison.
Like I mean, I had a kid rightearly.
We already we've been over that, talked about that, but even
still, I don't think I ever likeI was told to do things.
(06:17):
Not really, I don't think Iever assumed it.
So it was just interesting themindset of coming from because,
like you, were an only child forme for the longest time and
like, how did that feel?
Like can you remember, like howyou felt before you met your
siblings and then after, just asa child and your
(06:39):
responsibilities and what, justwhat I don't know, just your
emotional journey was, you know,during that transition?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I mean, I was really like before meeting my
siblings.
I was kind of the youngersibling with Lee, and so I felt
like a little kid, like oh, Icould throw a tantrum, I'm gonna
get what I want because I'm thegirl and you know, you just
have like oh, like just do youfree, like you have nothing to
(07:11):
worry about.
Like I don't you just havenothing to like stress about
anything.
And the second, that like notthe second.
But after meeting my siblings Ijust felt like I had to grow up
.
Like it's no, I think that's Idon't know, but I think that's
when I realized like I starttaking life serious, kind of
(07:34):
being like hello, you ain't gotnobody else to ask, so like for
help right now.
Like, bro, you better figurethis out.
Like I remember making chickenby myself, like putting it in
the oven and being so worriedLike I don't know how to make
chicken, like I'm like 11 yearsold and I'm like stressed out
(07:54):
about making chicken, whereasbefore this I was stressed out
about Lee not wanting to playwith me, like but yeah, it was
like a life, like my life justcompletely changed.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You know what's even more interesting?
You sound like me when I hadyou, like I released a child
from my body and it was like,hey, life is serious, I got to
figure this out.
And something in your brain,like, did the same switch for
(08:28):
children that weren't yours,that's.
And if you hear any elevationin my voice, it's not that it's
frustrating for me, it wasbefore, but it's just.
I think it's hard for me tounderstand and also Maybe it is
(08:54):
a bit frustrating, and justbecause I remember these
situations right, because I wasthere too.
I mean, not there with them, butI would take her over there and
I would always say, jayla, youdon't have to take care of them,
you don't have to do this, youdon't have to do that.
(09:15):
And I would talk to hergrandmother and say, you know,
jayla feels like she got to doit and I don't appreciate her
feeling like she has to takecare of these kids.
But I don't know, I didn't knowkind of what else to do because
, like she said, she wanted tobe there.
You wanted to be there, thatwas your grandmother, you loved
(09:37):
her and you wanted to have arelationship with your siblings
and I wanted you to as well.
So it was, I guess, just verycomplicated, just in general.
But do you ever like?
So two questions.
The first question do you everregret the way it all played out
(10:03):
?
Do you wish maybe I shouldn'thave gone over there so much, or
maybe I should have.
I wish my mom wouldn't have letme go over there.
I wish you know somethingdifferent, you know?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yes and no, not to make it seem like everything
over there was negative, becauseI still had like really good
moments as a child, but it's oneof those situations where it's
like, did it do me more goodthan bad or did it do me more
bad than good?
Like I can't say, because it'slike, yeah, I was I wasn't quote
(10:43):
unquote forced to grow up, butkind of like, hey, you gotta do
what you gotta do.
And once again, I loved mygrandma.
So it's like, no, I wanted tospend as much time as time with
her as I could.
I think more, I regret more isnot speaking up, like and
telling, like, saying somethingto my auntie, to my dad, like yo
(11:07):
, I'm raising these kids, help,do something.
You know, maybe if they wouldhave heard me say that, they
would have been like dang, likewe aren't really doing anything
to help.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, yeah, that was my second question.
Did you ever say anything toyour dad?
Nope, like nothing at all.
I mean, I feel like that's anunfair question.
It's a question of curiosity,not like you should have said
something.
Because you were a child.
You shouldn't have had to tellan adult that they weren't doing
(11:40):
what they needed to do, but I'mjust genuinely curious if you
ever mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I don't remember, I don't, I don't feel like I did.
Yeah, I don't know, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, I mean, maybe you didn't, I feel, I feel like
I remember something, but it'scloudy and maybe that could have
been an opportunity, a missedopportunity for me, because,
although I talked to I talked toyour grandmother about it, I
(12:18):
didn't, I didn't.
Yeah, it was, it was.
It was a lot of friction, verytense, you know, between her
father and I, for obviousreasons, and so it was.
Yeah, there's a lack ofcommunication there, but, yeah,
you know, it's no, no point for,for regret, I guess, and that's
(12:41):
why we're talking about it andfeeling through right now.
So, do you think, just in allof kind of all of the
responsibilities you took on,like, how do you think they've
affected you now?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh, I always assume the mother role and all my
friendships.
Like everyone can always say ohwell, if we need somewhere to
go, we're going to Jaila's house.
If we need something to eat, noJaila going to cook.
If we need somebody to take apicture, she going to take the
picture.
Like it's always been like this, like no one's making me do
(13:24):
this stuff, but it's like I justhave this now like motherly,
like oh, it's fine, like I'llfigure it out, like I'll help
you, like don't worry about it,I got it.
Like we're going to get throughthis.
It's a good it was.
It was a hard thing to havebecause at one point I would
take on everybody's likeemotions and everybody's
(13:46):
problems and be like, oh my God,like I'm so drained because I'm
taking everybody else's stuffin on top of my own stuff.
And now that I've gotten olderand I and I recognize this I'm
not as mad as I used to be aboutit.
I think it's a very good traitto have.
I think it's very rewarding tohear people say like you're the
(14:10):
person I go to, like I know Ican always trust you and depend
on you.
I think that just shows howgood of a person I am, so I
don't like to think of it aslike a negative anymore, and I
do create my boundaries now.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's important.
You definitely, even with me,you you like, in a number of
ways, like you kind of take onthat role, almost like I am the
mom, right, and so I, you know,have my role.
But Jaila will still like, kindof like mom me, you know it's,
(14:52):
I'm like I, you know, and Ithink that's partially because I
mean, yes, we in essence grewup together and so it's kind of
like, while it's very mother,daughter it's, it's also a like
a sister element a little bit,and good, bad, I don't know,
(15:15):
depends on the day, I guess, butit's like mom, you know you
shouldn't be doing that, mom.
Why are you letting them saythat to you?
And mom, why are you notspeaking and why are you not
like?
She's come in, like, like whileI was working or doing
something and you need torespond to that email and you
need to say this and like, like,like, for real, I'm like, and
(15:36):
it's crazy, because it's likethe one part of me is like, get
out of here, I'm your mama, andthen the other part is like, is
she right though, because Ireally should do these things.
So, and then with her littlebrother, she's like I'm his mom
when you're not here.
This is, this is my second child.
I'm like, but, jaila, I don'tput that on you, you put it on,
(15:57):
you take it on.
Like I don't like even likebabysitting.
I like will think it over a lot.
Like, should I ask her is thisreally important?
When the last time I asked herhow's her day been, I like think
through like what she's told meand like it like like homework
is like what she's doing withschool, and be like, nah, I
ain't going to ask her now, wedon't need to go nowhere because
(16:17):
I, just as far as, like I don'tknow, being parentified, I
didn't assume the role of motherfor my siblings.
I also, jaila and I it'scoincidentally, cosmically,
universally, whatever.
Our stories are very similar inthat I didn't know I had
(16:37):
siblings until I was nine, 10.
No idea.
And then I found, when I foundout, there were already three
others, you know.
So it was like okay, and so Ithink that I can empathize with
you in that space, because notonly are you, were you finding
(16:59):
out that you have otherrelatives that you knew nothing
about.
You're an older sister to thesekids, but your grandma's also.
Her health is declining, yourdad is still absent and spotty
and whatever you want to callthat, so that I think that's a
(17:20):
lot at one time, and maybe itwas almost like your defense,
like, okay, this, I never hadthis, so let me be this, and not
that you never had a mother,but you never like the nurturing
, supportive piece in that area,like, oh no, these siblings,
(17:42):
because even today I feel, likeyou say that a lot like they
can't feel what I felt, like youknow, I didn't have my dad, I
didn't have a dad like for avery long time, and so I have to
make sure that I'm there forthem because he's not here, you
know, and he's not been here andall these things.
(18:02):
And so it seems and feels likeit was a number of things,
because I know for me it was, Idon't know it was for me it was
actually kind of excitingbecause the same thing, just
like you had Lee, I had Toya, soit was like, oh well, I didn't
(18:26):
feel like a little like the onlychild because I had this like
aunt who was like four yearsolder than me, so it was like
she was pretty much like mysister and so, but still, like I
said, I never assumed like, oh,I gotta take care of them.
Because that was I didn't livein the same household as them.
We didn't meet at agrandmother's house or anything
(18:46):
until like much later, where Imoved in with two of them and my
dad and his wife, and it wasonly you know, she cooked.
I mean, we cleaned, like I hadchores and stuff, but it was
never like you gonna take careof these kids.
The only thing it was like howbad.
(19:07):
You know, no hard feelings ifyou listen it was like you gonna
watch these kids.
Like when they went somewhere ordid something, it was like it's
not a can you, it was a you'regoing to.
It was like and my dad wouldliterally say I'm not a
babysitter and I'm like, butyou're their dad, okay.
(19:27):
And so that built someresentment because it was like I
mean, I was already a mom,right, and so I had that
responsibility.
But at that time your dad wasvery active, your grandma was
very active, and so when I hadlike a free weekend because they
wanted you and they wanted totake you somewhere, I was being
(19:48):
made to watch other kids.
So I'm like I don't even havemine.
Why am I being made to sit,still sit and still not be able
to go and just do what I want todo.
You know, maybe this weekend,huh, and so that built up some
(20:08):
resentment, that built up someneeds for outlet.
And so I feel, like you know, mylike teens, my like late teens,
early 20s, I was carelessbecause of that, because I was
like I need to just not like, Ineed an outlet, and so I
(20:33):
sometimes I got too drunk orsometimes I party too much or
things of the sort, but I meanthat's.
I think you know that happenswhen your journey through your
youth is interrupted, right, andnot saying like and I'm saying
(20:55):
that to you like it wasinterrupted very much for a lot
of reasons, and so it's like youfind ways to feel that I think,
like you know, you're, like Isaid, partying and things, and
(21:17):
for me it was a lot of partying,a lot of drinking, this
careless stuff, relationships.
So it's just really interestinghow those stories are so
similar.
But, speaking of Lee, one daywe really hope to have him on
here so you all can hear fromhim, cause I think his story is
(21:39):
also very interesting, cause heand Jaila were very close.
People always thought they weresister and brother.
You know, he looked nothinglike they just both light skin,
but they for the longest time,like they went to all the same
schools, did everything together.
(22:00):
You know, I just remember somany stories.
Every time Lee got in trouble itwas because somebody was
messing with Jaila.
He was chasing people around,he was trying to fight people
because they were messing withJaila.
And I think I think you well, Imean I'm not making that
assumption but Jaila, I thinkyou said that like like at a
certain point everybody knew youreleased cousin and like people
(22:24):
really didn't say too much toyou because he had built up that
you know, if you talk to, ifyou say anything to her, you
know this is what's going tohappen.
And he wasn't big and scarylooking but he was quiet and I
think you know people were likeno, no, you're a little too
quiet.
You might be one of those quiet, crazy people.
(22:44):
But yeah, he, I don't know ifwe can ever get him on the show,
but it would be interesting tohave him and ask him some
questions.
So I was reading through it'slike a questionnaire from UCLA
(23:06):
that they give to kind of assesshow parentified you are, and
they have some very interestingquestions, and I say interesting
because Jaila and I we reacheda point in our relationship
where, well, I think this cameup on a previous episode in the
(23:29):
podcast as well where you wantedto be more open with you
because you could tell anywaywhen I was like stressed about
something right, or if somethingwas going on and I
intentionally didn't sharethings.
And so it's interesting on thisassessment they have that
(23:51):
there's.
I'll read a couple of questions.
So if you answer often or veryoften to either of these
questions, that's the moreparentified you were, and so a
couple of them are.
Your parents asked you foradvice when making decisions.
Your parents shared intimatesecrets concerning relationships
(24:13):
and or sexual issues with you.
Your parents discussed theirfinancial issues and problems
with you.
Your mother shared personalproblems or concerns with you as
if you were another adult.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know that.
I feel like that's probably forthe generic family you give me,
saying like we're not the,we're the modern day family, I
would say.
But a lot of these studies aredone with white, traditional
families A mother who was 40years old and a daughter who was
(24:49):
15.
They're, traditionally speaking, much more you know,
traditional I guess, but likethat I don't think those studies
are done with parents who havechildren at 14 years old and we
grow up together and it's justgonna be a completely different
relationship, and those weren'tthings that in the beginning,
(25:15):
you did not share these thingswith me at all.
It was me who was like mom bruh,just tell me, bruh, like just
tell me, because I just need toknow.
But yeah, so I don't know, Idon't.
When I see those studies, Ican't apply them to us because
we are not the traditionalfamily that these studies were
(25:37):
done, because I could also saythe exact opposite too, though
that your concerns are minebecause we are so like.
Like just remember, we werejust talking about how I was
like I can always feel yourenergy, like if you're stressed
out, like I feel like I'm onedge, like it just makes me
(26:00):
anxious.
I just need to know what'sgoing on so that I can just
realize that this is not mefeeling this stuff.
This is just you going throughyour thing, though.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I mean, and you're likely very right, it is
a very different dynamic.
I mean, I didn't look for thedata so I didn't see, like the
population that they surveyed,but you're probably right, it's
a more traditional family, or Imean traditional air quotes for
(26:34):
whatever that means.
That are probably answeringthese questions, but it just
struck me as huh, you know, likethey're saying that if this
happened then you were likelyparentified.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
By the person, because I don't feel like you
made me feel, like, like youknow, like I had to be trying to
think.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Like you, like you had to take assume adult
responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I tried not to.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
That's why I'm like yeah, that's why this would be
kind of like mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, there's others.
I mean, well, this is I guessthere are a lot of questions on
here for, like you know, twoparent households, so that's a
difference, Well, but therethere are also.
The other half of theassessment is kind of a lot
about what you said.
As far as your siblings words,you baby sat your younger
(27:42):
siblings when your parent orparents were away for more than
24 hours.
You were the main personassuming responsibility.
You were responsible forbathing your siblings, so just a
lot of like yeah, there's,there's a good mix of questions.
I guess it's like 32 questionson this assessment.
(28:04):
They do it so, but I did want topoint that out because I know
that was kind of like our thingbecause you were the only child
and I was, am still a very youknow, I got it type of person,
to my detriment, unfortunately,but I'm working on it and so I
did and and be again because ofyou know, with the babysitting
(28:27):
thing, because of my ownexperience, I've like tried to
be very intentional about notputting adult responsibilities
on you ever, but I do know thatthere were effects just maybe
not the parentified effects, butthere were effects, I'm sure,
(28:48):
from my decisions as a young momon you and that just I mean
that just goes without saying.
So, speaking back to siblingsand kind of late discovery, I
don't know if maybe you sharedthe number total of y'all is on
(29:12):
this on the podcast.
If you don't remember, ifyou're just tuning in, there are
eight of them.
Yeah, eight of the eightsiblings and there are seven
siblings and there are seven.
For me, I think I think thereare seven.
So what do you think?
Like I know for me, I am such ajay look on me a simp.
(29:38):
I don't know if that's just forrelationships or if that's just
just in general.
Okay, so I'm not a simp.
She says just for relationships.
I mean I am whatever.
Anyway, I love love, just ingeneral.
I will watch movies aboutfamilies, like this Christmas
and what's the other one, now,why did I get married?
(30:03):
Than people or family.
But just anyway, just moviesabout like soul, food and stuff
like that, families comingtogether and doing things
together, and you know there'llbe a group of sisters and
brothers and they'll all getcabins and hollanda holidays and
get together.
They'll pop out of house.
You know I crave and desirethat so much and it's in.
(30:26):
I've never really I've neverhad that.
So it's interesting how I craveit so much.
But but I do so is I mean,how's that for you?
Like?
Do you desire to have thiskumbaya moment with all of y'all
during the holidays, oranything like that?
Nope, Okay.
(30:53):
So why do you think?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
that is because I, I just feel, like you know that,
saying where it's like, oh, it'stoo late to make things right.
I know that, okay, okay, bevery transparent here.
I'm only close with my twosisters from my dad and my
(31:19):
little brother from you.
My other little brother, Idon't know, I think it's going
to.
It's not that it's too late forme.
With him it's more like I don'tknow like it's.
(31:39):
It's just it's a lot to have to.
You know, he was young, they hedid not, probably did not
realize the things I was goingthrough with that family.
You know, whereas Maya and Iwere old enough to kind of like
remember what was going on, theyprobably didn't understand it.
But with him I just be feelinglike you're too young, you were
(32:03):
too young, and I'm not going tobeat down your dad, I don't want
to hear about him, I don't wantto.
You know, things like that,like I don't have no problem
with that, but I just feel likehe's not going to understand
where I'm coming from and I justrather not even do that to
(32:25):
either one of us.
And then the youngest, for samesituation I've never met them a
day in my life.
They don't even probably know Iexist and it's not.
It's not the fact that Iwouldn't, because if they did
come to me, in all honesty Iwould talk to them, but I'm not.
(32:47):
Look on the lowest of keys.
I'm so tired of putting myenergy into things that I didn't
break.
I did not make this wrong.
I just feel like I don't knowif that's even a good thing to
say or not, because there are,they are kids.
But I'm just like man.
I've done so much of my ownhealing and trying to make
things work that right now,where I'm at, I don't have any
(33:10):
extra energy to try and bringthis family together.
I need someone else to do itand I will not put that on
myself, because I put enough onmyself and finally let that
stuff go.
If they want to reach out to meand fix it, totally fine, but I
will not.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Okay, I get it, and at this no, no, I won't even say
at the same time I don't.
I do get it because again,cosmically similar relationship,
similar situation.
(33:51):
I have younger siblings and Ithink I think, especially when
they're younger it's hardbecause your brother is your
second brother.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
He's maybe teen.
Yeah, 13 maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Okay, so I also have a teenage brother who I did not
grow up with, closely with orany of that, and I think that
when they're in that ageespecially, it's difficult as an
adult to reach them becauseit's like number one.
(34:30):
What are you all going to talkabout?
I mean like, and I mean whatare you all going to talk about?
Like, like casual conversationstarters to even like, initiate
some kind of like bond, right,because you're so much older,
even though you're not so mucholder, but you kind of are as
like what?
(34:50):
Eight years, nine, nine yearsdifference, and then two like I
feel like, especially teen years, like I stick to the
subscription that like teen toearly twenties, you don't really
care about that kind of stuff.
You like it's like out of sight, out of mind, like if you're
(35:13):
not around me every day, I don'tcare.
You're like, oh yeah, I gotolder sister, yeah, whatever,
like big deal.
You know it's all about likefriends, like that, like those
ages, the friends are the mostimportant thing, not family.
I'm not saying that's wrong,right, I think that's just how
we develop in our adolescence is, the friendships are more
(35:35):
important, especially when we'rein our teen years, and so, like
with one of my sisters.
We like the trauma between inthe family kind of happened when
she like was younger and so itbecame the same kind of distance
, because I was trying to removemyself from a situation and in
(35:58):
doing so, right, remove myselffrom anyone in that household
involved in the situation.
So I made several attempts tolike reconnect and it was always
so awkward because she was inthat teen fate where it was like
, look, what do you want?
(36:18):
Like that's kind of that'sreally how I felt I would get.
The response I would get forher was like, what do you want?
And because I have my own, myown stuff, it was like, oh no,
my feelings are hurt, she hatesme, I'm a terrible person.
I ran away and only after shewas like mature and an adult was
it finally like okay, we cantalk, like we can really talk
(36:41):
because you now have aperspective to help you
understand where I came from andI have a perspective and can
understand where you came from.
So not saying that healing andconnection can't happen in those
ages.
I think it's just much, muchharder, and especially for you
with the latest four.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
They're all under 10, right Under five, I think no,
under six, I don't know Under 10will just be safe there.
They are.
Somebody might be six.
No, okay Six.
I think that's a good answer.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
As you say, yeah, okay, my God, they're all small
people and so with that, right,you I mean it's not like you
could just call it in oranything Like you'd have to go
through their parents and youdon't speak to their parents.
So it's like, how can youconnect?
Yeah, it's not on you, youdon't own that.
(37:37):
You can't own that because youonly have you.
And so I think that is a nicesegue into like a big part of
this.
You know, parent-ified childrenand like the after and
long-term effects are, andcontributing factor is adults,
(38:04):
caregivers and their problemsand how it affects children and
also leads to parent-ified kids.
So I think that, for with me, Ihad the kind of the same issue
is that when I cut everyone offand in my dad's household,
(38:28):
getting away from traumas, youknow, it became kind of a I was
then an adult, so it was adultshad the problem.
So I didn't speak to the wife,she didn't speak to me and
therefore I didn't connect withthe kids, because those are her
kids, I'd have to talk to her toget to them, and so I think
(38:51):
that that's also complicated,right.
So I mean, do you feel likethat's pretty much what you like
?
I know you say you don't careright now because you don't own
that and all of these things.
But like what do you think justabout adults and their drama
and affecting kids?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I mean I've dealt with it like from you and your
conflict with people, but I knowit's going to be a cycle,
because I don't like my dad norhis wife, and I know that if I
do ever have kids, they willnever meet either one of them
(39:34):
and they will never get thechance to, you know, kind of
meet their grandpa.
Like you know, I'm gonna justcall myself, I'm like this is my
dad.
That's all you need to know, andit's just going to be an
endless cycle.
And I bet that the youngestones are going to have the same
(39:56):
problem.
They're probably not going tolike me because they're like,
wow, where have you been?
And then I'm going to have totell them about how crappy their
dad was and they probably won'tbelieve me because that's not
who they've experienced and it'snot something that I want to
keep passing down, because beingthe being around, that is like
man.
But I think it's harder though,because you know, with your
(40:21):
situation I was very, very, veryclose with you, know the person
, and once you guys kind of gotinto it, it not only took away
that person but two of my othervery close family members as
well.
So it was more, it was a biggerimpact than if it was somebody
(40:41):
I never met before.
I don't care, but because ofthat relationship it made it
more hurtful.
I guess.
Like dang, I wish I would havejust fixed this, bro.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, yeah, it does suck because it changes.
I mean, you know, just when youhave, you know, as an adult or
whatever, when you have conflictwith with you know another
adult, especially in the family,and y'all have children that
(41:18):
spend time together and you know, enjoy one another, that it
affects them, because if y'alldon't like each other, you
aren't speaking and it's awkwardand tense, then how are the
kids going to connect, you know,and then it creates it.
Just, it can't help but createawkwardness and tension amongst
the kids as well.
(41:38):
And, honestly, the situation Istill, like to date, can't fully
remember what that, where thatcame from, like how that even
happened.
I really can't, like I I likehow it started, like I can think
about some things, but I thinkbecause the both of us grew up
(42:03):
in a very dysfunctionalenvironment.
We, where we never learned howto connect and how to initiate
healthy conversation, we, justwe both developed an avoidance
and so I think when things, whenlife start really happening and
(42:25):
things got complicated, it waslike no, just avoid that person.
Because now we have all ofthese.
What is, what is this?
This term I just learned,anxious attachment, where you
automatically either it's eitheranxious attachment or avoidant
attachment, where youautomatically assume the person
(42:46):
thinks the worst of you and youstart making up in your head all
of these reasons.
Why, like, if someone doesn'tanswer your call or they don't
answer your texts right away, orlike these are things that
really happened to me, or if youtake too long to respond, it's
(43:08):
like you, you wanted to say no,you you didn't want to speak to
me.
Or you, what did I do wrong toyou?
You, like you, you start goingthrough these things and you
know, making up these storiesand then that makes the
communication hard becausepeople don't want to deal with
that.
You know, people havecompletely separate intentions.
(43:30):
I was in the shower, I was, Iwas busy, I was working, I was
stressed, I was trying to dowhatever, I mean, whatever, like
, it's just not always in attackon you and I've experienced
these things.
I've, I saw, in two ways.
I've done these things andthese things have happened to me
, and so that's, those arefactors in which caused the
(43:54):
tension in this, in thatrelationship, and I think that
it's very unfortunate.
Even today, I still make a lotof attempts to try and correct
and and you know, acknowledgeand address those things, but
(44:17):
everything takes two.
It takes.
It takes both people in thesituation to come together and
say, okay, let's just talk aboutwhat happened.
And you have to be ready forthat, you have to be open to it,
you have to be, you have tohave your boundaries, your
talking boundaries.
You have to have all of thesetools coming into a conversation
(44:38):
like that, because it's noteasy, especially if you have
trauma, you have PTSD, you arethe child of an alcohol or you
know drug over user, whatever,and so it's it's.
It's very complicated, but thatdoesn't mean it's impossible.
You just have to want to do ithonestly, just be willing to
(45:00):
have the tough conversations.
So, yeah, I think with withyour, I don't know with your,
with your siblings and mysiblings, I don't know.
I think it's just hard to sayhonestly, I, I have.
(45:20):
I have, course, hope for bothsituations.
I really hope that.
I mean, I don't, I don't knowhis wife, but I just hope that
one day she recognizes theimportance of her children,
knowing all of their family andnot just a select number,
(45:43):
because that is important.
And I hope for my siblings thatwe all recognize and appreciate
connection with each other andhow that could benefit.
It's just, it's just a benefit.
I feel like there's norelationship like the bond
between siblings.
I really don't like.
(46:04):
I feel like it's an amazing,necessary, impactful bond and
it's just, it's something that Iwant, I want it.
So if there's any question, andyou're listening, I want it.
I am in favor of that.
So what do you think, jayla,just about like kids, who like
(46:34):
or not kids?
I guess, when kids becomeadults, so say, you're like 35
and you got like three kids andthey like old enough, who are
like you know so and I'm askingthis question because I just met
a cousin of mine why didn't he?
I haven't even met him inperson yet still, but I've never
known anything about him and heactually shared with me that
(46:57):
his kids were dating each otherbecause they didn't know about
each other.
Thankfully, it didn't go anyfarther than the second date
because they started talkingabout family and like who's your
father and who's what's yourlast name?
And they both came to him andwas like dad.
He was like, oh man, and so thatwas his turning point.
(47:20):
He made sure all I don't evenfive of his kids.
I think he's like y'all have toknow each other, like right now
, like it's sad that it tookthat long, but it could happen.
It could happen.
So, with that in mind, right,like, what do you think would be
(47:40):
like, or do you think there'dbe a benefit in coming together
somehow to figure out of theserelationships?
Speaker 2 (47:53):
If I were a kid that mean you mess with my little
sister, Like was that what youwere talking?
Speaker 1 (48:02):
about.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
What Like if one of my kids start talking to one of
my little sisters.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Or they kids Bro.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I better pray, bro.
I don't know what you want meto do.
That's why I'm leaving thisstate.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Okay, but they're in another state and they might
leave the state man.
There are eight of y'all.
There's a possibility thatsomebody could end up in the
same area.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, I better get a DNA test on the first date,
which I want me to do, so youwant me to.
I'm gonna go find I'm not evengoing.
I'm gonna look and be like Ithink you, my sister, you better
ask who they cousins is.
Every black person know that.
Though that ain't gonna do me,I'm not gonna have no family
reunion and you finna, no Talkto these people first, get to
(48:47):
know them, first Meet theirparents.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, before you go, little down Meet their parents.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
You gonna see that it's that.
It's you gonna be like, hmm,what's your last name in Before
you got married?
Always ask that question what'syour maiden name?
Yup.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I mean, you could at least expose them to them, right
Like here, like you know.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I don't have no pictures of them, kids.
How would I do?
Speaker 1 (49:14):
that you could get.
You've shown me pictures.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, through sky.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
You could get pictures, Okay maybe at Sky's
wedding.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
I hope she get married.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Oh, she just like me At Sky wedding.
They all gonna meet.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
They all gonna meet at Sky wedding.
Sky might actually be the one,can we all?
Be, friends To connecteverything.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
No.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
I'm just getting.
She might be.
Honestly, she might be the onebecause she's.
It sounds like she's the onlyone from from y'all group that
knows everything about what theydoing and knows y'all.
And I say y'all group becauseit's like it's these four, right
, it's you and then yours, thensister, sister, brother, and
(50:00):
then on with the new family orwhatever you call it.
It's sister, sister, sister,brother, same thing.
And Sky is kind of, yeah, itseems like the only one that's
on both sides.
So, sky, it's on you, man.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
It's not on you.
Call your daddy.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
It's yeah, it's true, it's not, it's definitely not.
Well, I think we've come to astopping point Before we go.
I do want to share that and asusual resources will be in the
show notes that if you areparentified or you feel you have
(50:46):
been parentified, or if youhave, you know, parentified your
child or other children, justthat I think the best approach
is acknowledgement and therapy.
I know that so many of us inyou know, so many of us black
(51:08):
folk are still struggling withtherapy and talking through
problems and even acknowledgingthat we have problems and
situations and issues to talkthrough.
But if you're recognizingthings in yourself or in your
children that are similar to youknow what we've kind of
(51:32):
discussed here today then it'sworth a shot to at least
acknowledge you know what couldbe going on, because there are
long term effects and we all I'msure I've heard of these, you
know kind of hot button wordslike anxiety and trauma and
depression, and there's just somany of us way too many of us, I
(51:55):
can't say it enough walkingaround here unhealed and you
know a lot of these situationscould be, you know, at least
chipped away at with just simplediscussions.
So there'll be some links tothat assessment that I was
talking about with thosequestions, so you can ask those
(52:18):
questions to yourself or to afamily member, and also a couple
of articles aroundparentification, what it is, its
effects and so forth.
So we're going to take this out,take this one out, and you know
we're dropping another episodeagain every Wednesday.
So keep an eye and an ear outand you know we hope to, in the
(52:43):
next season, have guests for youto talk to.
We're going to start liningthose up.
So you know, just keep yourawareness and let us know what
other comments and topics andthings you'd like to hear from
us.
We're doing some reviews andsome other perspectives on some
(53:04):
things you know outside of theemotional realm, but that is the
playground on which we live.
So until next time we're out,take care.
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