September 17, 2025 • 16 mins
Part 2 focuses on the practical steps and real-life challenges of carrying out layoffs, like coordinating with HR and IT, preparing benefit info, and setting up conversations with those affected. Emily shares personal experiences, including handling difficult reactions and making sure Chiefs of Staff help with both the announcements and the follow-up communication to support everyone involved. The episode also covers how to manage the work left behind and how to help teams refocus after a layoff round.
Links Mentioned:
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- Strategic Planning Checklist
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- A Day in the Life of a Chief of Staff
- Chief of Staff Toolkit
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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
00:52 Preparing for Layoffs
02:38 Coordinating with HR and IT
03:54 Conducting Layoff Conversations
06:20 Handling Reactions and Follow-ups
07:25 Logistics and Safety Considerations
09:54 Post-Layoff Communication
14:42 Final Thoughts and Support
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
emily-sander_2_07-25-2025 (00:25):
Okay.
Now in our example, let's saythat we've gone through the
subsequent communications andgosh, we've done everything we
possibly can, and now we'regonna have to a layoff round.
There's no other option to keepthe company afloat, to have it
survive.
We're gonna have to do a roundof layoffs.
Okay, so we've got this thingteed up.
(00:46):
We're going with contingencyplan B.
Everyone's got their listsready.
Okay?
So this is gonna happen.
There's a whole bunch of prepand orchestration that goes on
beforehand to get this thingready.
So it's basically like awell-oiled machine once this
process starts.
It's a well-oiled machine andyou want it to run smoothly, and
you want people to know theirroles and the handoffs and the
(01:07):
timing and what needs to happen,what can be said, what shouldn't
be said, all these things.
So this will look different forevery single company and every
single team, especially likelarger corporations, if you've
got a global situationhappening, if you have thousands
of people being affected, ifyou're a small company and you
have, you know, a handful ofpeople being affected, if it's
(01:28):
remote, if it's in person.
So all these differentcontingencies that you need to
think about, but let's just say,um.
In our example, it's, it's amedium sized company, and let's
say there's, I don't know, 15people that are being laid off.
Okay?
you've got the benefit piecesthat need to be organized.
You've got maybe the COBRA forinsurance that you have to get
(01:49):
on point with HR on.
You need to verify where you'resending that information.
Do we have addresses and emailaddresses and phone numbers to
contact people and make sure wehave connection with them after
their work?
Information gets shut off.
We have to coordinate with itfor access because some people,
uh, respond differently to, tobeing in a layoff round.
(02:10):
And some people go a littlecrazy and so you wanna shut off
the communication.
Um, I've seen that happen wheresomeone, I don't mean to laugh,
but this was actually atermination and went crazy with
an all company email and it waslike, okay, so lesson learned,
we should shut that down sooner.
And the vp, that was theirfirst, uh, termination ever.
And so she forgot and then thishappened and she was mortified
and it was like, that stuffhappens.
(02:32):
I'm so sorry it was on your veryfirst one.
'cause now you're like a littlebit traumatized looking and
you're gonna go out for a stiffdrink afterward.
But anyway, coordinate with it.
Make sure that they are on pointfor, okay, this is the timing
that these things are happeningin and you need to shut these
things off as soon as thatperson, gets done with that
meeting or goes into thatmeeting or what have you.
(02:53):
So here's where you bring, startbringing some other people into
the tent, so to speak.
But the big ones tend to be HRand IT in my experience.
So having those people unlock,okay, here's exactly what needs
to happen.
Here's when this is happening.
I'll slack you, I'll text you.
Here's the confirmation that,that, that it went through.
Here's the email template we'regonna send out.
So they have all their benefitinformation.
(03:15):
All this stuff needs to be boom,boom, boom.
It's orchestrated in some of thelayoff rounds I did, it was back
to back to back individualconversations with people, which
was awful.
I mean, it's awful for them, butit was just like this, this is a
shitty day.
Uh, but that's what it was.
And we had this to a T wherelike everyone knew when this was
happening, boom, boom, boom,boom.
(03:38):
And I would communicate witheveryone on what was happening.
They were on standby.
And once we started thatconversation, they knew the
steps to take on their end.
So everything worked like awell-oiled machine.
Okay, so that goes through.
and I would say in thoseconversations, the way that I've
seen it done is you have eitherthe manager, or in some cases,
(04:04):
if the CEO wants to be involvedfor some of these, depending on
who it is, the relationship, thesituation, et cetera, uh, I've
seen the CEO involved and then,like an HR person, uh, or the
chief of staff or someone elsein there as the second person to
be in there.
And let's say this example, theCEO makes the announcement, we
made the decision, da dah, dah,dah, dah, dah.
(04:24):
People kind of know what's up.
'cause they've heard the contextfor like, yep, okay, this was a
possibility.
And yes, from those subsequentcommunications, it seemed like
this was becoming a moredistinct possibility.
And now they're like, yep, yep.
Okay.
I'm part of the layoff round.
Got it.
Maybe the second person there isready to go with the benefit
information to walk themthrough, here's what's going to
be sent to you, here's the, youknow, Cobra option you have.
(04:47):
Here's, if there's like a.
Like a non-disclosure, somethingthey have to sign or whatever it
is, any paperwork they have togo through.
And we're gonna send you anemail.
And I've been in situationswhere I'm the one confirming the
physical mailing address and theemail address we have on file is
the most, is the most, uh, up todate.
So things like that, you cankind of tag team things.
(05:07):
And that way sometimes it's oneperson doing the talking and
someone else is there just forthe record type of thing.
Whatever it needs to be in yoursituation.
in these, I tend to be short andto the point, respectful, but
not overly, like, we're gonnahave a long hour, long
conversation about this.
Most people don't wanna haveone.
(05:28):
They like, they're, they'retend, might be embarrassed about
things and they just want theconversation to be over.
So it's boom, boom, boom.
And it's warm but not overlyeffusive.
It's factual, but not overlyjudicial.
You kind of wanna hit that sweetspot of just the tone.
Talk to them like a person.
if they're receiving that,sometimes their, their eyes lays
over and they're just like, justmove through this, like, as
(05:50):
quickly as possible, like arobot and like, get me out of
here.
So it just depends.
But these don't tend to be longconversations in, um, in my
experience.
Some people again will want likereasons and how was I picked and
blah, blah, blah.
And you don't go into that.
It's just this decision has beenmade type of thing.
Some people know what's up andthey're like, this is, this is
how it goes.
This is business.
(06:11):
This is unfortunate.
You're like, yeah, I'm, youknow, I'm so sorry and we wish
this was much different.
And you have that kind ofconversation with them a little
bit at the end.
Know where people's level ofexperience is at with this.
And that will also help informyou, okay, who's in
conversations, who can be partof the actual conversation with
the person being laid off.
(06:31):
If we're doing a tag teamsituation, who are the most
appropriate two people to go inand have that conversation to
inform individuals or to informgroups that they're being laid
off.
Um, so kind of get a read on whodo we have in on the leadership
team or whoever's gonna beinvolved in making these
announcements to people.
Um, who do we have there?
'cause it might be, oh, okay, wecannot have this person involved
(06:55):
in this part of it.
They're gonna, that that's notgonna be a good situation.
It might be.
This is the first time thisperson has done this.
We're gonna have someone elsetake point.
But this is a good learningopportunity.
We need this person to be inthese discussions and be
watching and listening to learnhow to do it, and to get a rep
under their belt.
And so that might be somethingyou think about.
(07:16):
So there's all these differentkind of layers and facets that
go into a process like this.
Other general notes I would say.
If you are in the room whereyou're letting someone know
they're being laid off, justknow that humans have different
reactions to this.
On the whole, I've seen peoplebe generally fine, but then
(07:37):
there's the, the exception caseson kind of either end of the,
of, of the spectrum.
I have had people, I have hadthe full gamut.
Um, usually it's a little bitdifferent feeling and tone when
it's a layoff versus atermination, but you never know.
Like people got differentsituations, people have
different lenses.
They look at things through, soyou never know.
(07:58):
Some like logistical things, ifyou think someone is going to
respond very badly andaggressively and they're big and
strong, you might keep that inmind when you think about who's
gonna be in the room.
We have had cases, this ismostly for terminations, but
just to throw it out here incase you need it for a layoff
situation where we've had policeoutside the door where, hey,
(08:18):
this guy is, Big and strong, andhe's been aggressive before and
we just wanna have someone onstandby just in case.
Um, I am five four if I stand upstraight and I'm pretty
athletic, but there's beenpeople who I have had to lay off
and some I've had to terminatewhere I'm like, I want someone
else in the room, um, who canhandle, handle something coming
(08:40):
across the table at me if theymake a move for it.
So just, if you have to go tothe extreme levels, I would much
rather be safe than sorry formyself or for any one of my team
having to be in any situation.
Obviously, if it's remote,that's a different setting
altogether, but, if it's inperson, I would take care to
situate the room and situate thelocation and the exits and all
(09:00):
those things.
Timing is another thing to thinkabout.
If it's, say it's.
More dignified to do at the endof the day, or do it at the
beginning of the day, dependingon shifts or locations or where
people sit or whatever.
Kind of keep those things inmind as well.
What else?
Um, I have had people hug meafter, after I've told them,
(09:21):
which is a very, a very oddsituation as well.
I was like, oh, oh, we, uh,you're hugging.
Okay.
I'm gonna, we're hugging.
Okay.
Okay.
And you're taking your paperworkin your folder and you're
walking out.
Okay.
I guess you can have a hug atthe end of that.
Cool.
So very different reactionspeople could have and just be
prepared to hold the space,convey the information that
(09:42):
needs to be conveyed, do it inthe best possible way, and then
You're not done at this point,so you're like, oh my gosh, like
this has been so manyconversations and so many like
spreadsheets and numbers andblah, blah, blah.
So as much as you would like tobe done, you're not done.
So as much of the front runningcommunication that you had, you
also wanna have some follow upcommunication.
You would certainly want to letthe people's managers know, so
(10:03):
the direct managers, if they'renot the ones in these
conversations, at least let themknow this is happening.
at the soonest point you can.
I would say for any work that'sgoing to be rerouted, certainly
let people know if like, Hey,now you're on point for this.
You're gonna have to pick upthis project.
It might be the case where.
The, the work went away.
So you didn't have work and thatwas part of the problem.
(10:25):
You didn't have the work comingin.
And so when these folks go away,the work isn't needed anyway.
So there's no effect on the restof the team.
If it's like, no, we're justhaving to cut people and the
work is still there.
So now this person gets two orthree times the work, it would
be running through thosecontingency plans with, okay,
what are we gonna do with thework?
How are we gonna reroute thework?
(10:47):
We can't just give three timesmore to this person, so how are
we going to augment theirworkload?
And it might be, okay, this hashappened.
You're taking on this project.
We know you can't do three timesas much as you are doing.
So this stuff you are doing nowcomes off your plate.
I don't have to do that anymore.
No, this stuff comes off yourplate.
We're not expecting that.
(11:07):
We need you to take care of thisover here though.
Okay.
Got it.
It might be, Here's the newhandoff process.
Here is the new, uh, workaroundor whatever it is that something
has been adjusted for the peopleleft over.
You wanna make sure thatcommunication is clear.
It might be, Hey, if you areworking with anyone in this
group, um, go find this person.
If you can have a single pointof contact, maybe it's a
(11:29):
manager, like these five people.
If you are working with them onsomething, go to this person,
which is their manager, and themanager can help disseminate and
distribute the work type ofthing.
I would make sure thosecommunications happen.
It's really kind of weird andeerie and kind of, it can be
creepy when layoff roundshappen.
And then no announcements.
(11:49):
No one says anything, and it'slike, whoa, it's a ghost town
over here.
I see tumbleweeds going overdirt, uh, but no one's saying
anything.
So I guess they're just notthere.
Like people are texting theirfriends and people are like
coming up with stories.
So get the official announcementout there, address it, but don't
overly indulge in it.
We're not gonna talk about thisfor weeks and weeks and weeks
(12:10):
and months and months andmonths, and have a drama fest
over it.
This happened, it wasunfortunate.
We gotta turn things around.
We need people to be on point.
Let's go.
And hopefully we can be in aposition to bring folks back in
the future, but we need to be onpoint and we need to be focusing
on the right thing.
So hold space for it right afterit happens.
And then slowly but steadilydirect people back to, here's
(12:32):
the task at hand.
This is.
This is bread and butter, chiefof staff wheelhouse stuff.
And certainly as a CEO youshould be doing this.
And as other C-suite executives,you should be doing this in your
own ways with your own teams.
But as chief of staff, I wouldthink be thinking through, okay,
after this announcement goesdown, where do I have to have
conversations?
(12:53):
What did different people need?
Where are we gonna have tocatch?
Where are we gonna have toredirect?
Who are people who are moreresilient in these situations
and can help lead the refocuseffort?
All these different types ofthings you can think through.
Sometimes you're gonna getsurprised where it's like, oh, I
thought that person was gonnafreak out.
And they are rising to theoccasion beautifully.
Okay.
(13:13):
Like, you keep going in thatdirection.
Thank you for your help.
And like this steady Eddie islike, gonna be fine.
He's gonna be a stable.
Oh my gosh.
He's a pool of whatever on mydesk.
He's crying.
Okay, hold on, I gotta rethinkwhat I'm gonna do over here.
So, uh, just, just be open tothat.
And it also like, as a, as asocial experiment, as chief of
(13:33):
staff, you learn a lot.
About people.
You learn a lot about peoplewhen the rubber meets the road.
You learn a lot about people'strue colors.
And it can be surprising and ata very kind of neutral objective
level, it's a good data point ifyou're, you can collect some
really significant data pointson how people respond and how
people act when the chips aredown.
so all of that to say there's,There's a whole follow up
(13:56):
communication cadence and followup conversations that you, that
you could have as well.
I said that at the beginning.
And just again, So treat peoplewith respect and dignity.
They're a human being at thebaseline at the end of the day,
so they deserve that.
And they are your colleague andpotentially your friend, or you
were friendly with them So dothat in the right way.
Treat them like you would liketo be treated.
Treat them like they would wannabe treated in this situation
(14:19):
and, and do it well, do it well.
And at the same time, right atthe same time, this is business.
This happens.
And people have to take thatinformation and move forward on
both sides.
People have to receive thatinformation and move forward
with their next step in theircareer.
And you have to convey thatinformation and move forward
(14:41):
with your job.
All right, so as we wind downhere, I hope that you will never
have to use anything you learnedin these episodes.
I hope you'll never have to do alayoff round and never be part
of that.
But if you are, hopefully youhave found something that's
useful and helpful.
To help you and the team do thatWell for people, and I know that
(15:01):
this is not a pleasant thing,but it does happen.
Certain parts of the marketright now are coming under
stress, and I've been seeingmore layoff rounds happen in
certain areas.
Chiefs of staff are ofteninvolved in that.
so I wanted to.
Just share my experience, getsome information out there and
hopefully it'll help you if youhave to have to do a layoff
round.
If you have any specificquestions,'cause I know this is
(15:21):
a delicate topic and there canbe lots of different situations
and scenarios and nuances, thenplease feel free to drop
something in the comments if youthink it's fine for a, a larger
audience in public consumption.
But feel free to email me andjust say, Hey Emily, here's the
situation.
You can email me atemily@nextlevel.coach and if you
wanna drop me a note onLinkedIn, if that's easier for
(15:43):
you, you can do that as well.
All of this information will bein the show notes to reach out,
but if you have a situationwhere you're like, I'm not quite
sure what to do here, I'm notfeeling great about this, or my
CEO needs some help here and youwant someone to soundboard with,
then please just reach out.
otherwise I will catch you nextweek on leveraging leadership.
Okay.
Now in our example, let's saythat we've gone through the
subsequent communications andgosh, we've done everything we
possibly can, and now we'regonna have to a layoff round.
There's no other option to keepthe company afloat, to have it
survive.
We're gonna have to do a roundof layoffs.
Okay, so we've got this thingteed up.
(00:46):
We're going with contingencyplan B.
Everyone's got their listsready.
Okay?
So this is gonna happen.
There's a whole bunch of prepand orchestration that goes on
beforehand to get this thingready.
So it's basically like awell-oiled machine once this
process starts.
It's a well-oiled machine andyou want it to run smoothly, and
you want people to know theirroles and the handoffs and the
(01:07):
timing and what needs to happen,what can be said, what shouldn't
be said, all these things.
So this will look different forevery single company and every
single team, especially likelarger corporations, if you've
got a global situationhappening, if you have thousands
of people being affected, ifyou're a small company and you
have, you know, a handful ofpeople being affected, if it's
(01:28):
remote, if it's in person.
So all these differentcontingencies that you need to
think about, but let's just say,um.
In our example, it's, it's amedium sized company, and let's
say there's, I don't know, 15people that are being laid off.
Okay?
you've got the benefit piecesthat need to be organized.
You've got maybe the COBRA forinsurance that you have to get
(01:49):
on point with HR on.
You need to verify where you'resending that information.
Do we have addresses and emailaddresses and phone numbers to
contact people and make sure wehave connection with them after
their work?
Information gets shut off.
We have to coordinate with itfor access because some people,
uh, respond differently to, tobeing in a layoff round.
(02:10):
And some people go a littlecrazy and so you wanna shut off
the communication.
Um, I've seen that happen wheresomeone, I don't mean to laugh,
but this was actually atermination and went crazy with
an all company email and it waslike, okay, so lesson learned,
we should shut that down sooner.
And the vp, that was theirfirst, uh, termination ever.
And so she forgot and then thishappened and she was mortified
and it was like, that stuffhappens.
(02:32):
I'm so sorry it was on your veryfirst one.
'cause now you're like a littlebit traumatized looking and
you're gonna go out for a stiffdrink afterward.
But anyway, coordinate with it.
Make sure that they are on pointfor, okay, this is the timing
that these things are happeningin and you need to shut these
things off as soon as thatperson, gets done with that
meeting or goes into thatmeeting or what have you.
(02:53):
So here's where you bring, startbringing some other people into
the tent, so to speak.
But the big ones tend to be HRand IT in my experience.
So having those people unlock,okay, here's exactly what needs
to happen.
Here's when this is happening.
I'll slack you, I'll text you.
Here's the confirmation that,that, that it went through.
Here's the email template we'regonna send out.
So they have all their benefitinformation.
(03:15):
All this stuff needs to be boom,boom, boom.
It's orchestrated in some of thelayoff rounds I did, it was back
to back to back individualconversations with people, which
was awful.
I mean, it's awful for them, butit was just like this, this is a
shitty day.
Uh, but that's what it was.
And we had this to a T wherelike everyone knew when this was
happening, boom, boom, boom,boom.
(03:38):
And I would communicate witheveryone on what was happening.
They were on standby.
And once we started thatconversation, they knew the
steps to take on their end.
So everything worked like awell-oiled machine.
Okay, so that goes through.
and I would say in thoseconversations, the way that I've
seen it done is you have eitherthe manager, or in some cases,
(04:04):
if the CEO wants to be involvedfor some of these, depending on
who it is, the relationship, thesituation, et cetera, uh, I've
seen the CEO involved and then,like an HR person, uh, or the
chief of staff or someone elsein there as the second person to
be in there.
And let's say this example, theCEO makes the announcement, we
made the decision, da dah, dah,dah, dah, dah.
(04:24):
People kind of know what's up.
'cause they've heard the contextfor like, yep, okay, this was a
possibility.
And yes, from those subsequentcommunications, it seemed like
this was becoming a moredistinct possibility.
And now they're like, yep, yep.
Okay.
I'm part of the layoff round.
Got it.
Maybe the second person there isready to go with the benefit
information to walk themthrough, here's what's going to
be sent to you, here's the, youknow, Cobra option you have.
(04:47):
Here's, if there's like a.
Like a non-disclosure, somethingthey have to sign or whatever it
is, any paperwork they have togo through.
And we're gonna send you anemail.
And I've been in situationswhere I'm the one confirming the
physical mailing address and theemail address we have on file is
the most, is the most, uh, up todate.
So things like that, you cankind of tag team things.
(05:07):
And that way sometimes it's oneperson doing the talking and
someone else is there just forthe record type of thing.
Whatever it needs to be in yoursituation.
in these, I tend to be short andto the point, respectful, but
not overly, like, we're gonnahave a long hour, long
conversation about this.
Most people don't wanna haveone.
(05:28):
They like, they're, they'retend, might be embarrassed about
things and they just want theconversation to be over.
So it's boom, boom, boom.
And it's warm but not overlyeffusive.
It's factual, but not overlyjudicial.
You kind of wanna hit that sweetspot of just the tone.
Talk to them like a person.
if they're receiving that,sometimes their, their eyes lays
over and they're just like, justmove through this, like, as
(05:50):
quickly as possible, like arobot and like, get me out of
here.
So it just depends.
But these don't tend to be longconversations in, um, in my
experience.
Some people again will want likereasons and how was I picked and
blah, blah, blah.
And you don't go into that.
It's just this decision has beenmade type of thing.
Some people know what's up andthey're like, this is, this is
how it goes.
This is business.
(06:11):
This is unfortunate.
You're like, yeah, I'm, youknow, I'm so sorry and we wish
this was much different.
And you have that kind ofconversation with them a little
bit at the end.
Know where people's level ofexperience is at with this.
And that will also help informyou, okay, who's in
conversations, who can be partof the actual conversation with
the person being laid off.
(06:31):
If we're doing a tag teamsituation, who are the most
appropriate two people to go inand have that conversation to
inform individuals or to informgroups that they're being laid
off.
Um, so kind of get a read on whodo we have in on the leadership
team or whoever's gonna beinvolved in making these
announcements to people.
Um, who do we have there?
'cause it might be, oh, okay, wecannot have this person involved
(06:55):
in this part of it.
They're gonna, that that's notgonna be a good situation.
It might be.
This is the first time thisperson has done this.
We're gonna have someone elsetake point.
But this is a good learningopportunity.
We need this person to be inthese discussions and be
watching and listening to learnhow to do it, and to get a rep
under their belt.
And so that might be somethingyou think about.
(07:16):
So there's all these differentkind of layers and facets that
go into a process like this.
Other general notes I would say.
If you are in the room whereyou're letting someone know
they're being laid off, justknow that humans have different
reactions to this.
On the whole, I've seen peoplebe generally fine, but then
(07:37):
there's the, the exception caseson kind of either end of the,
of, of the spectrum.
I have had people, I have hadthe full gamut.
Um, usually it's a little bitdifferent feeling and tone when
it's a layoff versus atermination, but you never know.
Like people got differentsituations, people have
different lenses.
They look at things through, soyou never know.
(07:58):
Some like logistical things, ifyou think someone is going to
respond very badly andaggressively and they're big and
strong, you might keep that inmind when you think about who's
gonna be in the room.
We have had cases, this ismostly for terminations, but
just to throw it out here incase you need it for a layoff
situation where we've had policeoutside the door where, hey,
(08:18):
this guy is, Big and strong, andhe's been aggressive before and
we just wanna have someone onstandby just in case.
Um, I am five four if I stand upstraight and I'm pretty
athletic, but there's beenpeople who I have had to lay off
and some I've had to terminatewhere I'm like, I want someone
else in the room, um, who canhandle, handle something coming
(08:40):
across the table at me if theymake a move for it.
So just, if you have to go tothe extreme levels, I would much
rather be safe than sorry formyself or for any one of my team
having to be in any situation.
Obviously, if it's remote,that's a different setting
altogether, but, if it's inperson, I would take care to
situate the room and situate thelocation and the exits and all
(09:00):
those things.
Timing is another thing to thinkabout.
If it's, say it's.
More dignified to do at the endof the day, or do it at the
beginning of the day, dependingon shifts or locations or where
people sit or whatever.
Kind of keep those things inmind as well.
What else?
Um, I have had people hug meafter, after I've told them,
(09:21):
which is a very, a very oddsituation as well.
I was like, oh, oh, we, uh,you're hugging.
Okay.
I'm gonna, we're hugging.
Okay.
Okay.
And you're taking your paperworkin your folder and you're
walking out.
Okay.
I guess you can have a hug atthe end of that.
Cool.
So very different reactionspeople could have and just be
prepared to hold the space,convey the information that
(09:42):
needs to be conveyed, do it inthe best possible way, and then
You're not done at this point,so you're like, oh my gosh, like
this has been so manyconversations and so many like
spreadsheets and numbers andblah, blah, blah.
So as much as you would like tobe done, you're not done.
So as much of the front runningcommunication that you had, you
also wanna have some follow upcommunication.
You would certainly want to letthe people's managers know, so
(10:03):
the direct managers, if they'renot the ones in these
conversations, at least let themknow this is happening.
at the soonest point you can.
I would say for any work that'sgoing to be rerouted, certainly
let people know if like, Hey,now you're on point for this.
You're gonna have to pick upthis project.
It might be the case where.
The, the work went away.
So you didn't have work and thatwas part of the problem.
(10:25):
You didn't have the work comingin.
And so when these folks go away,the work isn't needed anyway.
So there's no effect on the restof the team.
If it's like, no, we're justhaving to cut people and the
work is still there.
So now this person gets two orthree times the work, it would
be running through thosecontingency plans with, okay,
what are we gonna do with thework?
How are we gonna reroute thework?
(10:47):
We can't just give three timesmore to this person, so how are
we going to augment theirworkload?
And it might be, okay, this hashappened.
You're taking on this project.
We know you can't do three timesas much as you are doing.
So this stuff you are doing nowcomes off your plate.
I don't have to do that anymore.
No, this stuff comes off yourplate.
We're not expecting that.
(11:07):
We need you to take care of thisover here though.
Okay.
Got it.
It might be, Here's the newhandoff process.
Here is the new, uh, workaroundor whatever it is that something
has been adjusted for the peopleleft over.
You wanna make sure thatcommunication is clear.
It might be, Hey, if you areworking with anyone in this
group, um, go find this person.
If you can have a single pointof contact, maybe it's a
(11:29):
manager, like these five people.
If you are working with them onsomething, go to this person,
which is their manager, and themanager can help disseminate and
distribute the work type ofthing.
I would make sure thosecommunications happen.
It's really kind of weird andeerie and kind of, it can be
creepy when layoff roundshappen.
And then no announcements.
(11:49):
No one says anything, and it'slike, whoa, it's a ghost town
over here.
I see tumbleweeds going overdirt, uh, but no one's saying
anything.
So I guess they're just notthere.
Like people are texting theirfriends and people are like
coming up with stories.
So get the official announcementout there, address it, but don't
overly indulge in it.
We're not gonna talk about thisfor weeks and weeks and weeks
(12:10):
and months and months andmonths, and have a drama fest
over it.
This happened, it wasunfortunate.
We gotta turn things around.
We need people to be on point.
Let's go.
And hopefully we can be in aposition to bring folks back in
the future, but we need to be onpoint and we need to be focusing
on the right thing.
So hold space for it right afterit happens.
And then slowly but steadilydirect people back to, here's
(12:32):
the task at hand.
This is.
This is bread and butter, chiefof staff wheelhouse stuff.
And certainly as a CEO youshould be doing this.
And as other C-suite executives,you should be doing this in your
own ways with your own teams.
But as chief of staff, I wouldthink be thinking through, okay,
after this announcement goesdown, where do I have to have
conversations?
(12:53):
What did different people need?
Where are we gonna have tocatch?
Where are we gonna have toredirect?
Who are people who are moreresilient in these situations
and can help lead the refocuseffort?
All these different types ofthings you can think through.
Sometimes you're gonna getsurprised where it's like, oh, I
thought that person was gonnafreak out.
And they are rising to theoccasion beautifully.
Okay.
(13:13):
Like, you keep going in thatdirection.
Thank you for your help.
And like this steady Eddie islike, gonna be fine.
He's gonna be a stable.
Oh my gosh.
He's a pool of whatever on mydesk.
He's crying.
Okay, hold on, I gotta rethinkwhat I'm gonna do over here.
So, uh, just, just be open tothat.
And it also like, as a, as asocial experiment, as chief of
(13:33):
staff, you learn a lot.
About people.
You learn a lot about peoplewhen the rubber meets the road.
You learn a lot about people'strue colors.
And it can be surprising and ata very kind of neutral objective
level, it's a good data point ifyou're, you can collect some
really significant data pointson how people respond and how
people act when the chips aredown.
so all of that to say there's,There's a whole follow up
(13:56):
communication cadence and followup conversations that you, that
you could have as well.
I said that at the beginning.
And just again, So treat peoplewith respect and dignity.
They're a human being at thebaseline at the end of the day,
so they deserve that.
And they are your colleague andpotentially your friend, or you
were friendly with them So dothat in the right way.
Treat them like you would liketo be treated.
Treat them like they would wannabe treated in this situation
(14:19):
and, and do it well, do it well.
And at the same time, right atthe same time, this is business.
This happens.
And people have to take thatinformation and move forward on
both sides.
People have to receive thatinformation and move forward
with their next step in theircareer.
And you have to convey thatinformation and move forward
(14:41):
with your job.
All right, so as we wind downhere, I hope that you will never
have to use anything you learnedin these episodes.
I hope you'll never have to do alayoff round and never be part
of that.
But if you are, hopefully youhave found something that's
useful and helpful.
To help you and the team do thatWell for people, and I know that
(15:01):
this is not a pleasant thing,but it does happen.
Certain parts of the marketright now are coming under
stress, and I've been seeingmore layoff rounds happen in
certain areas.
Chiefs of staff are ofteninvolved in that.
so I wanted to.
Just share my experience, getsome information out there and
hopefully it'll help you if youhave to have to do a layoff
round.
If you have any specificquestions,'cause I know this is
(15:21):
a delicate topic and there canbe lots of different situations
and scenarios and nuances, thenplease feel free to drop
something in the comments if youthink it's fine for a, a larger
audience in public consumption.
But feel free to email me andjust say, Hey Emily, here's the
situation.
You can email me atemily@nextlevel.coach and if you
wanna drop me a note onLinkedIn, if that's easier for
(15:43):
you, you can do that as well.
All of this information will bein the show notes to reach out,
but if you have a situationwhere you're like, I'm not quite
sure what to do here, I'm notfeeling great about this, or my
CEO needs some help here and youwant someone to soundboard with,
then please just reach out.
otherwise I will catch you nextweek on leveraging leadership.
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