March 6, 2025 • 26 mins
After the success of Jackie, it felt like Joanne’ s career suddenly hit pause. Choosing to stay true to herself, she stepped away for a few years. Joanne opens up about the struggles of having an ethnic surname, the industry’s shifting standards, and the soul-crushing moment a music executive told her she didn’t "look Australian enough", only to praise her “exotic” beauty years later. Through it all, she’s learned that trends come and go, but self-worth is something you have to build from within.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Every day brings a new story. Life isn't perfect, but
it's perfectly ours. With raw conversations, inspiring stories and laugh
until you cry moments we hit them. I unpack it
all and figure it out together, one episode at a time.
This is Life as we know it, Unfiltered with Tony
Tanalia and Lisa Cameron.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
We really hope you have been listening to the past
couple of episodes. With nineties pop sensation Joe Anne had
to hit with the song Jackie, she has been sharing
some amazing stuff with us. Here's another episode for you
to enjoy it. Nick, can I ask, so, obviously, after
Jackie exploded, your career took off and then things I
(00:51):
want to say came to a stop. Yes, only because
that's what I saw. Yeah, right, essentially, Yeah, and there
until now, what's been going on? What have you been doing? Yes?
So obviously still you know, you've got to earn a
living somehow.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah. So basically by the time so the album came
out in two thousand and one, I did all these
amazing tours, did all this really cool stuff that was
back in this studio. I was recording what was going
to be album number two, And this is when you
know major record label are involved, and you know, obviously
I'd have this success, and I was being very creative
(01:28):
and very excited about the new direction, which was actually
at the time very different from where I started. It
was a bit edgier, it was a bit darker, and
it was a real fusion of everything that I loved.
And what actually happened at the time was, unfortunately, it
would seem that there was an idea of what kind
(01:49):
of artist everyone wanted me to be and how they
saw me and how I saw myself and where I
wanted to be. It wasn't aligned anymore. My whole thing
was I knew that the plan was to go into
national in a bigger way, and I was scared and
nervous that, Okay, if I do what I'm being advised
(02:13):
that I should be doing, and I put myself out
there in front of a bigger audience, am I going
to crumble? Am I going to not be proud of
what I'm doing? Because maybe I'm not one hundred percent
sure that I should be doing this thing. So I
(02:35):
took what was meant to be a year or two off.
The plan was meant to be just a pause. I
moved to Sydney. I just worked a normal job. I
just wanted to experience life away from music, because all
I'd known since I finished school was music, and I
could feel that there were big ideas about who Joanne
(02:57):
should be and what Joanne should be doing, and I
think because it wasn't quite aligning with where I felt
I needed to be, rightly or wrongly, it made me nervous.
And I think this was at a time when we
were starting to see young artists blow up massively around
the world and then at the same time seeing them
crumble like a year later because they can't take it.
(03:20):
That's what concerned me was that if I'm not authentically
being me, what does that mean for me mentally and
emotionally and that kind of thing. So the break ended
up being a lot longer, and I moved away. I
came back then and there was a couple of years
there where I didn't sing at all, didn't write, didn't sing,
(03:42):
just had completely removed myself from music, and then I
just missed it so much. I think I did one
gig with the guys. We sort of decided the boys
from Island, We're like, well, let's do something fun. And
so we created this killer cover band and for years
that was what we did to keep our voices going
(04:02):
in to get fall in love with music again. And
we did that for good twelve or thirteen years, and
a man called we went back to the name pastor
Present finally enough, but it was what the boys had
started with and it kind of made sense with the
music because we were doing old songs, and so we
went with that name. And then in twenty and sixteen,
(04:24):
Now bearing in mind, I had not performed on my
own since around two thousand and two, two thousand and
three at this point, and in twenty sixteen, I get
a phone call and I get asked if I want
to go on tour with the Benger Boys. And it
was the Benger Boys, Sonique, Crystal Waters, Tina Cousins and
(04:45):
Whigfield in the lineup, and they're like, we want you
to represent Australia and perform Jackie and a couple of
your other songs as Joey and the solo artist. And
I think I'd forgotten about her. I think I'd forgotten.
I'd gotten so used to having other people around me,
(05:06):
sharing the stage, with other people, having you know sometimes
that we had nine up there, and even though I
was the only female, and I'd have my moment because
you are the only girls, so you're obviously going to
be able to still sing female songs and stuff like that.
I hadn't walked out on a stage on my own
in so many years, and so I remember getting this
(05:27):
call and I was a bit nervous at the start
because I was like, I think there was that little
voice of I don't know if she does that anymore,
you know, So there was a little voice sitting in
my head, you know, trying to say you don't do
this anymore, don't do it. And then there was the
other part of me of this is a challenge, Just
jump do it. So I decided to do it. And
(05:49):
as soon as I walked out there on my own,
I was like, what have I been doing? I went
out there and I sang I think I opened with
so damn Fine. And I think the first show i'd
done it was actually in New Zealand, and that was
another thing too. I was in New Zealand, went out there,
sang so damn Fine, and the crowd was singing along
with me, and I just remember thinking, oh my goodness,
(06:13):
I'd forgotten what it was like to be my own
and I'd forgotten that people remembered my songs. Yes, so
I did, so don't fine. And then I when I
went to Jackie and Nuts, they went bonkers and I
walked off stage. And I remember I'd had a conversation
(06:35):
with Sonic about half an hour before I went on stage,
talking about, yeah, this is my first time out there
on my own in a minute, you know, and I
went out there. I remember I came off and she
went girl. She said, it's all over, and she said,
that's where you're meant to be. And it was that
it was a defining moment because I knew at that
(06:56):
moment I wanted to go back into being an artist
and doing my own shows. That I missed that empowerment
feeling and I really had lost touch with what my
music meant to people. I didn't click. I didn't realize
that it had left such a lasting impression and it
(07:17):
wasn't an ego thing, was that it meant something to people.
And it was that feeling of seeing what the music
did for people when I was performing up there and
it just had so much meaning that I was like, no,
you know what, I need to shift gears here and
start doing some shows on my own, and then I
(07:38):
never looked back. And so since then I've been performing
on my own. I've been doing my own shows. I
obviously released again, and now I'm writing and recording again,
getting to collaborate with all sorts of amazing people. And
it's such a different industry now. The way that I'm
working today and the way that we work today is
a completely different creative world to the world that I
(08:00):
left back then. How different You can work with as
many people as you like. There's no rules in the
sense of back then it was very much you know,
you went into a studio and you had a hub
with a crew of people that you worked with, and
often it would be the same people for a long
period of time. And that works beautifully, mind you, it's
a great experience. Now it's very fluid. You meet all
(08:22):
these different people, sometimes different genres, different producers that you
don't have to be in the room together. It's a
very virtual world that we live in. And even just
the whole collab situation. We're in a day and age
now where it's collabs, collabs collapse, you know, and the
DJ world has changed so much in the sense of
(08:45):
now DJ's are artists, and so that's a whole nother
layer to it as well, is that you know, back
then there would be the producer and some people wouldn't
even know their name or the DJ, and people would
see them in the background and not then and the now,
the DJ is an artist. So so the collabse, you're
sharing that experience with someone and their brand, their fan base,
(09:08):
their names. So I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I've gotten to
meet some really great people. Yeah, it's been really really enjoyable,
and I love the trust that has been put in
me to do what I do as well. That's what's
been really cool is being on control. Yeah, and I
love writing, and I love I'm obsessed with vocally arranging. Oh,
(09:28):
just like I am that annoying person that just records
and just I'm obsessed with being behind the mic. And
I feel sorry for the engineers that work with me
because I love doing insane vocal arrangements with a thousand
harmonies and doing ridiculous things and they just have to
sit there and just record me and just you know,
(09:49):
and then I'm like, you look on their phone. Yeah,
and then I'm like, you know, I'm going to do
another harmony. They're like, and then I'm like, you know what,
I feel like it needs a bottom bottom and they're
like okay, and then I'm like, actually, what about it.
You know what, I'm going to do really high one
and then I promise we're done, and then then I
layer another thing, and then I'm like, maybe there needs
to be an ambient airy vocal in the background too.
I'm just gonna do that now. And that is the
story of my life. And they will tell you that
(10:11):
is exactly how it is, and they just God bless them,
they just let me do it. And because it always
you know, they're like in the end, they're like, oh, yeah,
that's got your stamp on it. I understand now, But
you know, I love the people just trust me to
do what I do. And I think that's what I
guess that's the reminder of how Jackie came to be.
It was me having that inkling of I think I
know what needs to be done, yeh, can you just
(10:31):
let me just do what needs to be done and
being trusted and yeah, I was guided, but it was
the trust. And so I feel like when I'm kind
of left to just do what I do and have
fun with it. That's when the magic happens. So I'm
loving that. I'm in that fun stage right now where
everyone's like, just do it, you do it. I'm like, okay,
so we can expect new music. Oh I've been like
(10:54):
a broken record for the last few years. I'm like,
this is this is the and then finally it's we
how things happen. So sometimes you start to work on
a project or you start on something and things don't
quite align. And that's the thing with this industry. There
are variables for days. So sometimes you know the timing
of the track won't align, or maybe you're ready to release,
(11:16):
but maybe the person you're doing the song with they've
got a delay, so you have to delay. There's all
these things, and so I had all these little delays
between twenty twenty three and now, and now I'm excited
because it's worked out for the best because it's either
allowed other projects to come along or it's allowed for
better versions of what we started working on. And also
(11:39):
my favorite thing, a sense of self. You know, I
think the twenty fifth release of Jackie shifting into a
disco house world and having my shows reflect the same.
I think performing in that way has really lent itself
to the creative now. So it's like the timing has
worked out really well. I think twenty twenty five is
(12:02):
finally going.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
To have Yeah, would you say it's a nine year
nine year years whether all the magic happens, is it
in there?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And then what about what's ten years.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Time or what are your future?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I reckon I'm still going to be doing this. I
think I'm pretty sure I'll still be I'm still going
to be doing this, I think, I mean, I'm going
to be doing this for as long as humanly possible.
And I think the thing that's exciting is that, you know,
the getting better thing and the being better thing, and
the I think I'm vocally, you know, in a place
(12:38):
now where I'm like, I think this is the best
I've been, and I'm excited to just get better and
better and better. I'm not saying I'm the best out there.
I still am not a technical singer. I'm an emotional singer. Guys,
I'm an emotional singer. But I'm excited to see where
things take me. And I'm really excited to rep for
these people that aren't dreaming big and rapping for you know,
(13:03):
people who think your time is up, Like, no, just
go out there and do it. And you know, when
you're performing out there and you see eighteen nineteen year
olds in front of you, going, this is so cool,
it's like like, who've said age is a thing?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Exactly? What is wrong with you? All?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Get the memory of energy? That's yeah. So I think
the plan would be to continue singing and performing and
making amazing memories with people. You know, if I can
do this for another ten years and we're still having
these conversations about my music or you know what my
music meant to people, I mean, that's an incredible thing. Yeah,
(13:46):
you know, Yeah, that's where I see myself.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I love it. I want to ask you something you
mentioned before that when you were first starting out, obviously
there was talk about the look not being that you
were ethnic.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
All that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
When I first started in radio, I was working at
a country station, country music station, and my first on
air shift, I was told, don't use your surname, just
call yourself Tony.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
The silent G was an issue.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yes, So then I got to the point where I
just started using my name anyway. I thought the bug
of this. You tell me I can't use my name.
And then I went to another radio station and the
first thing that came up was your surname, and I said,
I'm not changing it. So a flat couldn't even finish
the sentence and I said, I'm not changing it, and
the program director said to me, he said, I don't
(14:38):
have an issue with it. Because he was also from
another country. He said, the general manager has brought it up,
said I don't care. I am not changing my name. Right,
So this is going back late eighties when I was
getting into radio.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Was that an issue for you?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So they said, don't use your surname.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
It was a bit of an issue. So part of
it was obviously one name sounds cool, like, let's be honest,
in the music industry, people love a one name. But
also there was the whole thing of how is my
son I'm going to be pronounced, because there are several
ways to pronounce it, you know, it could be akhom,
it could be akhom, it could be accum, depending on
where you are in the world. And so then it
was just like, oh, too hard, too hard, let's just
(15:18):
drop it, which I was actually fine with. I was
fine to drop the surname. That was okay. I think
what was the hardest, the weirdest part, and I won't
mention names, but there was a very renowned person who
before Jackie was released, this person loved my voice, thought
I had a great voice, but had made a comment
(15:39):
about how I wasn't Australian looking enough and that I
would never work in this country. And I had heard
it from a distance. I don't think he realized I
heard it, but the people around me were talking about it,
and it played in my head, you know, in the
back of my head because I was like, you know,
I'd grown up in the Southeastern suburbs where it's a
(16:01):
melting pot of cultures, and I'm like, you know, I
wasn't used to sort of and you were born in
this country. No, I'm actually born in London, so I
spent the first ten years of my life in the UK.
And look, I'm not you know, I'm very much aware
of you know, ignorance and racism and race relations and
all those sorts of things. Of course I'm aware of it,
(16:21):
especially you know, having South African parents. But I was
so like, what do you mean I'm not going to
work in this country, like I'm in this country, like
what does this mean? And then I became very much
aware of oh wow, I might not look right for
this industry. And I'd heard it from a few other
people too, and especially females. It was a real thing.
(16:44):
But the funny thing is the same guy about a
year and a half later or two years later, I
was I was at one of the arias at the
award show and the same man said you look great. Gosh,
You're just so exotic and beautiful, the same.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Percise as a compliment or did you want to turn
around and go fuck you, buddy?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I've actually giggled and walked off, like I said thank you,
and then giggled and walked off. And the reason why
I laughed was because I was like, wow, I can't
believe that the same person who made me feel like
I was so wrong and I looked so wrong, and
you know, my features weren't right, my skin wasn't right,
nothing about me was right, and I didn't represent whatever
(17:29):
Australia wanted. The same person now felt that I was
so exotic, and so I giggled at it, and that
taught me a real lesson in wow, we really are
in a world of trends, and you really can't take
anything personally, and you can't hold onto stuff because what's
(17:50):
cool is cool, and sadly, you know, it is sad
to think that someone would say that about someone. And
some people don't recover from that stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
The young kids of today, they don't have that life
experience that you're just talking about now. Yeah, and so
they're you know, they're they're thinking this is just a trend.
I'm not cool now, but I will be. Yeah. You know,
so many lives right now being affected by what people
are saying to them.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, people don't recover from no that and and all
the little things they store in the back of your mind.
And I'm not saying I haven't done. I've had to
do work on myself to let some things go and
not carry things and to know that words or words,
it doesn't make it true. Yes, you know, you may
think I'm this cool, I'm not your cup of tea.
That's fine, But someone else might be like, I don't
mind her, she's kind of cool, you know. But it's
(18:38):
taken me a long time to get to that point.
But at the time it was, you know, quite soul
crushing because everything that my parents have had brought me
up to not let bother me because of their experience,
they had gone through so much of that that they
were like, do not let these things bother you. Do
(18:59):
not let it define you. Shine bright, and you show
people what you're made of. And so it really ticked
me off that I was finally there to shine right
and show people what I was made of. And it
was like, I like this part of it, but I
really like that, And like, now I think back, I'm like,
you know, I think it's always going to be that way.
(19:21):
People are always gonna like this, not like that. Two
years later, the trend's going to change. Oh we like
this now and not like that. And so I think
if anything, you know, for young artists, it's it's, yeah,
you just have to know who you are and accept
that as products, and we can't change that as products.
(19:44):
Some people are going to like us and some people aren't.
And that's okay, exactly right, you know, but I can't.
I can't believe you. I'm actually so impressed that you
kept your surname change for anybody in those days too,
(20:04):
like it would have been such a big deal.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, here's the funny thing. So when I first started
at three year Z and was told, you know, and
that wasn't told not to use my surname, but it
came up and then I was like, well, okay, well
what do you suggest then? And because it was a
country music station, they suggest I use the surname Twitty
Tony twitty as in Conway Twitty.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Oh my god, Oh yeah, that's not going to happen.
Sound like a tweet. Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
But there was a thing that was like that. I mean,
like many years ago three x y the jocks had
different names. That was the trend back in those days,
you know, And I was like this, this is not
changing this for anybody.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
It was such a weird time and everyone else was
weird that it's all coming back to me now that
I'm witch hadding, Like I'm not a model. I don't
know what people think like I think about it out
It's ridiculous. It's like, I didn't come here to be
Victoria's secret. I didn't come here to be a Vogue model.
Clearly that's not what I am people. I'm here to
get the party started.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Blood for that shit.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
And so you'd be on set or you'd be in
a photo shoot and they just want this. And it
was weird to me because I'd be doing videos and
sometimes it'd be like, you know, and it's all very pretty,
but how I perform, I'm a bit of a maniac,
and so it was always like this weird disconnect because
(21:24):
it's kind of like look pretty, look pretty, look cute,
look pretty, but then at the same time, you just
want to be the maniac that I am. So it
was always really strange, and I would not be surprised
if my fans picked up on that, because they'd be
the live performer that would be one energy, and then
(21:44):
in the videos, I'm the kid, you know, and I
would follow the direction because you know, you're trusting people
of you know, we want it to be about her face.
And I'd be like, okay. But it was strange too,
because it's like, but I thought it didn't look right.
I thought everyone's going to problem with this face. But
now you want to focus on the face, and so
(22:06):
what now you like the face? Okay, it's like very
confusing now, but I laugh about it all now. And
that's the thing. You have to get to a point
where you laugh about You have to get to a
point where even the hurtful things, you can kind of
look at it and go, you know what, some people
just don't have a clue, and also teach yourself how
(22:27):
to handle things better, Like I certainly was not the
person that I am now then and I spent way
too much energy focusing on stuff I just should not
have been worrying about.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But again it comes down the life experience. You don't
know at that stage how to deal with stuff. You
don't even know at that stage that what you're dealing
with isn't right.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Absolutely like a catastrophe then was I don't know, like
I forgot my body glitter? What am I going to do?
I can't go on stage up. I'm like I used to.
I used to put everywhere like it was like that
was that was a thing, Like oh no what now? Yeah, embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
This has just been so inside its few weeks has
just gone WHOA so much coming in to tell you
before you know, when you're talking about when you got
that aria and you're sitting there and the camera's carming.
So I was nominated for a Mole Award, the Entertainment Award,
Oh yes, yes, yeah, they had a radio category. We
sat there all night and there was a whole bunch
(23:32):
of US radio people on the same table. I reckon
on our table is about five of us nominated in
the same category. So I'm looking at the list of
names in this category going wow, I'm pretty I'm doing well,
like I'm sitting in amongst royalty here. And so there
was one guy in particular, guy named Monchael Tun who
used to actually work on Triple J and then was
working in Adelaide with me at SAFM and we were
(23:54):
convinced Tunny was going to win this. So all night
we were priming him up and we were going, Tunny,
you got your speech ready, get ready, it's coming up soon.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
All night we did this.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So the category comes and we're like, you're ready, and
this pool bugger is like shitting himself because we primmed
him up that much. I think he believed he was
gonna win. So anyway, were sitting there called out the name.
It was me, and I've just gone fuck what, Seriously,
(24:23):
I honestly I went, hang on, is this real? And
there's a camera in my face right and all want
to thinking is fucking what. So I've had to then
get up and go and accept this award. Now, having
said that, I had actually left the radio station because
I had left Adelaide and moved to Melbourne. I think
I just had Josh at this stage, my second child,
and so we made the move back to Melbourne. So
(24:45):
I wasn't even working in radio at this point. I
had this bit of a break and I've gone up
on stage and I said, my speech is this is shocking.
That was the first thing came out of way up
and I had to say, no, hang on when I
say that, I don't mean shocking bad as in I'm
in shock. Let's kind of with this. I didn't know
what to say. I didn't think I was gonna win Wow.
(25:05):
Related that story, I was like, yeah, God can relate
to that. I can say I'm in a good company
because the year I won my MO Award, Kylie Minogue
won the Entertainment of the Year.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, Kylie and.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I won a MO Award in the same year. Hey,
can I just say this has just been an absolute
bloody pleasure.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I've absolutely loved this conversation as well.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Thank you, thanks, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And now we're going to Tony's.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
With the Cats. With the Cats.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, you've been listening to Life as We Know It
Unfiltered with Tony Tanalia and Lisa Cameron. If you liked
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(26:00):
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Every day brings a new story. Life isn't perfect, but
it's perfectly ours. With raw conversations, inspiring stories and laugh
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This is Life as we know it, Unfiltered with Tony
Tanalia and Lisa Cameron.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
We really hope you have been listening to the past
couple of episodes. With nineties pop sensation Joe Anne had
to hit with the song Jackie, she has been sharing
some amazing stuff with us. Here's another episode for you
to enjoy it. Nick, can I ask, so, obviously, after
Jackie exploded, your career took off and then things I
(00:51):
want to say came to a stop. Yes, only because
that's what I saw. Yeah, right, essentially, Yeah, and there
until now, what's been going on? What have you been doing? Yes?
So obviously still you know, you've got to earn a
living somehow.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah. So basically by the time so the album came
out in two thousand and one, I did all these
amazing tours, did all this really cool stuff that was
back in this studio. I was recording what was going
to be album number two, And this is when you
know major record label are involved, and you know, obviously
I'd have this success, and I was being very creative
(01:28):
and very excited about the new direction, which was actually
at the time very different from where I started. It
was a bit edgier, it was a bit darker, and
it was a real fusion of everything that I loved.
And what actually happened at the time was, unfortunately, it
would seem that there was an idea of what kind
(01:49):
of artist everyone wanted me to be and how they
saw me and how I saw myself and where I
wanted to be. It wasn't aligned anymore. My whole thing
was I knew that the plan was to go into
national in a bigger way, and I was scared and
nervous that, Okay, if I do what I'm being advised
(02:13):
that I should be doing, and I put myself out
there in front of a bigger audience, am I going
to crumble? Am I going to not be proud of
what I'm doing? Because maybe I'm not one hundred percent
sure that I should be doing this thing. So I
(02:35):
took what was meant to be a year or two off.
The plan was meant to be just a pause. I
moved to Sydney. I just worked a normal job. I
just wanted to experience life away from music, because all
I'd known since I finished school was music, and I
could feel that there were big ideas about who Joanne
(02:57):
should be and what Joanne should be doing, and I
think because it wasn't quite aligning with where I felt
I needed to be, rightly or wrongly, it made me nervous.
And I think this was at a time when we
were starting to see young artists blow up massively around
the world and then at the same time seeing them
crumble like a year later because they can't take it.
(03:20):
That's what concerned me was that if I'm not authentically
being me, what does that mean for me mentally and
emotionally and that kind of thing. So the break ended
up being a lot longer, and I moved away. I
came back then and there was a couple of years
there where I didn't sing at all, didn't write, didn't sing,
(03:42):
just had completely removed myself from music, and then I
just missed it so much. I think I did one
gig with the guys. We sort of decided the boys
from Island, We're like, well, let's do something fun. And
so we created this killer cover band and for years
that was what we did to keep our voices going
(04:02):
in to get fall in love with music again. And
we did that for good twelve or thirteen years, and
a man called we went back to the name pastor
Present finally enough, but it was what the boys had
started with and it kind of made sense with the
music because we were doing old songs, and so we
went with that name. And then in twenty and sixteen,
(04:24):
Now bearing in mind, I had not performed on my
own since around two thousand and two, two thousand and
three at this point, and in twenty sixteen, I get
a phone call and I get asked if I want
to go on tour with the Benger Boys. And it
was the Benger Boys, Sonique, Crystal Waters, Tina Cousins and
(04:45):
Whigfield in the lineup, and they're like, we want you
to represent Australia and perform Jackie and a couple of
your other songs as Joey and the solo artist. And
I think I'd forgotten about her. I think I'd forgotten.
I'd gotten so used to having other people around me,
(05:06):
sharing the stage, with other people, having you know sometimes
that we had nine up there, and even though I
was the only female, and I'd have my moment because
you are the only girls, so you're obviously going to
be able to still sing female songs and stuff like that.
I hadn't walked out on a stage on my own
in so many years, and so I remember getting this
(05:27):
call and I was a bit nervous at the start
because I was like, I think there was that little
voice of I don't know if she does that anymore,
you know, So there was a little voice sitting in
my head, you know, trying to say you don't do
this anymore, don't do it. And then there was the
other part of me of this is a challenge, Just
jump do it. So I decided to do it. And
(05:49):
as soon as I walked out there on my own,
I was like, what have I been doing? I went
out there and I sang I think I opened with
so damn Fine. And I think the first show i'd
done it was actually in New Zealand, and that was
another thing too. I was in New Zealand, went out there,
sang so damn Fine, and the crowd was singing along
with me, and I just remember thinking, oh my goodness,
(06:13):
I'd forgotten what it was like to be my own
and I'd forgotten that people remembered my songs. Yes, so
I did, so don't fine. And then I when I
went to Jackie and Nuts, they went bonkers and I
walked off stage. And I remember I'd had a conversation
(06:35):
with Sonic about half an hour before I went on stage,
talking about, yeah, this is my first time out there
on my own in a minute, you know, and I
went out there. I remember I came off and she
went girl. She said, it's all over, and she said,
that's where you're meant to be. And it was that
it was a defining moment because I knew at that
(06:56):
moment I wanted to go back into being an artist
and doing my own shows. That I missed that empowerment
feeling and I really had lost touch with what my
music meant to people. I didn't click. I didn't realize
that it had left such a lasting impression and it
(07:17):
wasn't an ego thing, was that it meant something to people.
And it was that feeling of seeing what the music
did for people when I was performing up there and
it just had so much meaning that I was like, no,
you know what, I need to shift gears here and
start doing some shows on my own, and then I
(07:38):
never looked back. And so since then I've been performing
on my own. I've been doing my own shows. I
obviously released again, and now I'm writing and recording again,
getting to collaborate with all sorts of amazing people. And
it's such a different industry now. The way that I'm
working today and the way that we work today is
a completely different creative world to the world that I
(08:00):
left back then. How different You can work with as
many people as you like. There's no rules in the
sense of back then it was very much you know,
you went into a studio and you had a hub
with a crew of people that you worked with, and
often it would be the same people for a long
period of time. And that works beautifully, mind you, it's
a great experience. Now it's very fluid. You meet all
(08:22):
these different people, sometimes different genres, different producers that you
don't have to be in the room together. It's a
very virtual world that we live in. And even just
the whole collab situation. We're in a day and age
now where it's collabs, collabs collapse, you know, and the
DJ world has changed so much in the sense of
(08:45):
now DJ's are artists, and so that's a whole nother
layer to it as well, is that you know, back
then there would be the producer and some people wouldn't
even know their name or the DJ, and people would
see them in the background and not then and the now,
the DJ is an artist. So so the collabse, you're
sharing that experience with someone and their brand, their fan base,
(09:08):
their names. So I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I've gotten to
meet some really great people. Yeah, it's been really really enjoyable,
and I love the trust that has been put in
me to do what I do as well. That's what's
been really cool is being on control. Yeah, and I
love writing, and I love I'm obsessed with vocally arranging. Oh,
(09:28):
just like I am that annoying person that just records
and just I'm obsessed with being behind the mic. And
I feel sorry for the engineers that work with me
because I love doing insane vocal arrangements with a thousand
harmonies and doing ridiculous things and they just have to
sit there and just record me and just you know,
(09:49):
and then I'm like, you look on their phone. Yeah,
and then I'm like, you know, I'm going to do
another harmony. They're like, and then I'm like, you know what,
I feel like it needs a bottom bottom and they're
like okay, and then I'm like, actually, what about it.
You know what, I'm going to do really high one
and then I promise we're done, and then then I
layer another thing, and then I'm like, maybe there needs
to be an ambient airy vocal in the background too.
I'm just gonna do that now. And that is the
story of my life. And they will tell you that
(10:11):
is exactly how it is, and they just God bless them,
they just let me do it. And because it always
you know, they're like in the end, they're like, oh, yeah,
that's got your stamp on it. I understand now, But
you know, I love the people just trust me to
do what I do. And I think that's what I
guess that's the reminder of how Jackie came to be.
It was me having that inkling of I think I
know what needs to be done, yeh, can you just
(10:31):
let me just do what needs to be done and
being trusted and yeah, I was guided, but it was
the trust. And so I feel like when I'm kind
of left to just do what I do and have
fun with it. That's when the magic happens. So I'm
loving that. I'm in that fun stage right now where
everyone's like, just do it, you do it. I'm like, okay,
so we can expect new music. Oh I've been like
(10:54):
a broken record for the last few years. I'm like,
this is this is the and then finally it's we
how things happen. So sometimes you start to work on
a project or you start on something and things don't
quite align. And that's the thing with this industry. There
are variables for days. So sometimes you know the timing
of the track won't align, or maybe you're ready to release,
(11:16):
but maybe the person you're doing the song with they've
got a delay, so you have to delay. There's all
these things, and so I had all these little delays
between twenty twenty three and now, and now I'm excited
because it's worked out for the best because it's either
allowed other projects to come along or it's allowed for
better versions of what we started working on. And also
(11:39):
my favorite thing, a sense of self. You know, I
think the twenty fifth release of Jackie shifting into a
disco house world and having my shows reflect the same.
I think performing in that way has really lent itself
to the creative now. So it's like the timing has
worked out really well. I think twenty twenty five is
(12:02):
finally going.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
To have Yeah, would you say it's a nine year
nine year years whether all the magic happens, is it
in there?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And then what about what's ten years.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Time or what are your future?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I reckon I'm still going to be doing this. I
think I'm pretty sure I'll still be I'm still going
to be doing this, I think, I mean, I'm going
to be doing this for as long as humanly possible.
And I think the thing that's exciting is that, you know,
the getting better thing and the being better thing, and
the I think I'm vocally, you know, in a place
(12:38):
now where I'm like, I think this is the best
I've been, and I'm excited to just get better and
better and better. I'm not saying I'm the best out there.
I still am not a technical singer. I'm an emotional singer. Guys,
I'm an emotional singer. But I'm excited to see where
things take me. And I'm really excited to rep for
these people that aren't dreaming big and rapping for you know,
(13:03):
people who think your time is up, Like, no, just
go out there and do it. And you know, when
you're performing out there and you see eighteen nineteen year
olds in front of you, going, this is so cool,
it's like like, who've said age is a thing?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Exactly? What is wrong with you? All?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Get the memory of energy? That's yeah. So I think
the plan would be to continue singing and performing and
making amazing memories with people. You know, if I can
do this for another ten years and we're still having
these conversations about my music or you know what my
music meant to people, I mean, that's an incredible thing. Yeah,
(13:46):
you know, Yeah, that's where I see myself.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I love it. I want to ask you something you
mentioned before that when you were first starting out, obviously
there was talk about the look not being that you
were ethnic.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
All that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
When I first started in radio, I was working at
a country station, country music station, and my first on
air shift, I was told, don't use your surname, just
call yourself Tony.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
The silent G was an issue.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yes, So then I got to the point where I
just started using my name anyway. I thought the bug
of this. You tell me I can't use my name.
And then I went to another radio station and the
first thing that came up was your surname, and I said,
I'm not changing it. So a flat couldn't even finish
the sentence and I said, I'm not changing it, and
the program director said to me, he said, I don't
(14:38):
have an issue with it. Because he was also from
another country. He said, the general manager has brought it up,
said I don't care. I am not changing my name. Right,
So this is going back late eighties when I was
getting into radio.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Was that an issue for you?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So they said, don't use your surname.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
It was a bit of an issue. So part of
it was obviously one name sounds cool, like, let's be honest,
in the music industry, people love a one name. But
also there was the whole thing of how is my
son I'm going to be pronounced, because there are several
ways to pronounce it, you know, it could be akhom,
it could be akhom, it could be accum, depending on
where you are in the world. And so then it
was just like, oh, too hard, too hard, let's just
(15:18):
drop it, which I was actually fine with. I was
fine to drop the surname. That was okay. I think
what was the hardest, the weirdest part, and I won't
mention names, but there was a very renowned person who
before Jackie was released, this person loved my voice, thought
I had a great voice, but had made a comment
(15:39):
about how I wasn't Australian looking enough and that I
would never work in this country. And I had heard
it from a distance. I don't think he realized I
heard it, but the people around me were talking about it,
and it played in my head, you know, in the
back of my head because I was like, you know,
I'd grown up in the Southeastern suburbs where it's a
(16:01):
melting pot of cultures, and I'm like, you know, I
wasn't used to sort of and you were born in
this country. No, I'm actually born in London, so I
spent the first ten years of my life in the UK.
And look, I'm not you know, I'm very much aware
of you know, ignorance and racism and race relations and
all those sorts of things. Of course I'm aware of it,
(16:21):
especially you know, having South African parents. But I was
so like, what do you mean I'm not going to
work in this country, like I'm in this country, like
what does this mean? And then I became very much
aware of oh wow, I might not look right for
this industry. And I'd heard it from a few other
people too, and especially females. It was a real thing.
(16:44):
But the funny thing is the same guy about a
year and a half later or two years later, I
was I was at one of the arias at the
award show and the same man said you look great. Gosh,
You're just so exotic and beautiful, the same.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Percise as a compliment or did you want to turn
around and go fuck you, buddy?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I've actually giggled and walked off, like I said thank you,
and then giggled and walked off. And the reason why
I laughed was because I was like, wow, I can't
believe that the same person who made me feel like
I was so wrong and I looked so wrong, and
you know, my features weren't right, my skin wasn't right,
nothing about me was right, and I didn't represent whatever
(17:29):
Australia wanted. The same person now felt that I was
so exotic, and so I giggled at it, and that
taught me a real lesson in wow, we really are
in a world of trends, and you really can't take
anything personally, and you can't hold onto stuff because what's
(17:50):
cool is cool, and sadly, you know, it is sad
to think that someone would say that about someone. And
some people don't recover from that stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
The young kids of today, they don't have that life
experience that you're just talking about now. Yeah, and so
they're you know, they're they're thinking this is just a trend.
I'm not cool now, but I will be. Yeah. You know,
so many lives right now being affected by what people
are saying to them.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, people don't recover from no that and and all
the little things they store in the back of your mind.
And I'm not saying I haven't done. I've had to
do work on myself to let some things go and
not carry things and to know that words or words,
it doesn't make it true. Yes, you know, you may
think I'm this cool, I'm not your cup of tea.
That's fine, But someone else might be like, I don't
mind her, she's kind of cool, you know. But it's
(18:38):
taken me a long time to get to that point.
But at the time it was, you know, quite soul
crushing because everything that my parents have had brought me
up to not let bother me because of their experience,
they had gone through so much of that that they
were like, do not let these things bother you. Do
(18:59):
not let it define you. Shine bright, and you show
people what you're made of. And so it really ticked
me off that I was finally there to shine right
and show people what I was made of. And it
was like, I like this part of it, but I
really like that, And like, now I think back, I'm like,
you know, I think it's always going to be that way.
(19:21):
People are always gonna like this, not like that. Two
years later, the trend's going to change. Oh we like
this now and not like that. And so I think
if anything, you know, for young artists, it's it's, yeah,
you just have to know who you are and accept
that as products, and we can't change that as products.
(19:44):
Some people are going to like us and some people aren't.
And that's okay, exactly right, you know, but I can't.
I can't believe you. I'm actually so impressed that you
kept your surname change for anybody in those days too,
(20:04):
like it would have been such a big deal.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, here's the funny thing. So when I first started
at three year Z and was told, you know, and
that wasn't told not to use my surname, but it
came up and then I was like, well, okay, well
what do you suggest then? And because it was a
country music station, they suggest I use the surname Twitty
Tony twitty as in Conway Twitty.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Oh my god, Oh yeah, that's not going to happen.
Sound like a tweet. Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
But there was a thing that was like that. I mean,
like many years ago three x y the jocks had
different names. That was the trend back in those days,
you know, And I was like this, this is not
changing this for anybody.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
It was such a weird time and everyone else was
weird that it's all coming back to me now that
I'm witch hadding, Like I'm not a model. I don't
know what people think like I think about it out
It's ridiculous. It's like, I didn't come here to be
Victoria's secret. I didn't come here to be a Vogue model.
Clearly that's not what I am people. I'm here to
get the party started.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Blood for that shit.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
And so you'd be on set or you'd be in
a photo shoot and they just want this. And it
was weird to me because I'd be doing videos and
sometimes it'd be like, you know, and it's all very pretty,
but how I perform, I'm a bit of a maniac,
and so it was always like this weird disconnect because
(21:24):
it's kind of like look pretty, look pretty, look cute,
look pretty, but then at the same time, you just
want to be the maniac that I am. So it
was always really strange, and I would not be surprised
if my fans picked up on that, because they'd be
the live performer that would be one energy, and then
(21:44):
in the videos, I'm the kid, you know, and I
would follow the direction because you know, you're trusting people
of you know, we want it to be about her face.
And I'd be like, okay. But it was strange too,
because it's like, but I thought it didn't look right.
I thought everyone's going to problem with this face. But
now you want to focus on the face, and so
(22:06):
what now you like the face? Okay, it's like very
confusing now, but I laugh about it all now. And
that's the thing. You have to get to a point
where you laugh about You have to get to a
point where even the hurtful things, you can kind of
look at it and go, you know what, some people
just don't have a clue, and also teach yourself how
(22:27):
to handle things better, Like I certainly was not the
person that I am now then and I spent way
too much energy focusing on stuff I just should not
have been worrying about.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But again it comes down the life experience. You don't
know at that stage how to deal with stuff. You
don't even know at that stage that what you're dealing
with isn't right.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Absolutely like a catastrophe then was I don't know, like
I forgot my body glitter? What am I going to do?
I can't go on stage up. I'm like I used to.
I used to put everywhere like it was like that
was that was a thing, Like oh no what now? Yeah, embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
This has just been so inside its few weeks has
just gone WHOA so much coming in to tell you
before you know, when you're talking about when you got
that aria and you're sitting there and the camera's carming.
So I was nominated for a Mole Award, the Entertainment Award,
Oh yes, yes, yeah, they had a radio category. We
sat there all night and there was a whole bunch
(23:32):
of US radio people on the same table. I reckon
on our table is about five of us nominated in
the same category. So I'm looking at the list of
names in this category going wow, I'm pretty I'm doing well,
like I'm sitting in amongst royalty here. And so there
was one guy in particular, guy named Monchael Tun who
used to actually work on Triple J and then was
working in Adelaide with me at SAFM and we were
(23:54):
convinced Tunny was going to win this. So all night
we were priming him up and we were going, Tunny,
you got your speech ready, get ready, it's coming up soon.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
All night we did this.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So the category comes and we're like, you're ready, and
this pool bugger is like shitting himself because we primmed
him up that much. I think he believed he was
gonna win. So anyway, were sitting there called out the name.
It was me, and I've just gone fuck what, Seriously,
(24:23):
I honestly I went, hang on, is this real? And
there's a camera in my face right and all want
to thinking is fucking what. So I've had to then
get up and go and accept this award. Now, having
said that, I had actually left the radio station because
I had left Adelaide and moved to Melbourne. I think
I just had Josh at this stage, my second child,
and so we made the move back to Melbourne. So
(24:45):
I wasn't even working in radio at this point. I
had this bit of a break and I've gone up
on stage and I said, my speech is this is shocking.
That was the first thing came out of way up
and I had to say, no, hang on when I
say that, I don't mean shocking bad as in I'm
in shock. Let's kind of with this. I didn't know
what to say. I didn't think I was gonna win Wow.
(25:05):
Related that story, I was like, yeah, God can relate
to that. I can say I'm in a good company
because the year I won my MO Award, Kylie Minogue
won the Entertainment of the Year.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, Kylie and.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I won a MO Award in the same year. Hey,
can I just say this has just been an absolute
bloody pleasure.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I've absolutely loved this conversation as well.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Thank you, thanks, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And now we're going to Tony's.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
With the Cats. With the Cats.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, you've been listening to Life as We Know It
Unfiltered with Tony Tanalia and Lisa Cameron. If you liked
this episode, please leave us a review or drop a
comment on our socials. We love hearing from you. You
can also come hang out with us on Instagram at
Life as we Know It Dot podcast and on Facebook
at Life as we Know It. Oh please see that
(26:00):
follow button on your favorite podcast app. If you're not
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