November 13, 2019 • 34 mins
Brightly lit classrooms, crowded cafeterias, constant bells ringing... these are just a few of the particular challenges kids living with Autism face when they enter the school system. Not to mention learning comprehension, organizational and social skills. Fitting in at school can be daunting. Just ask Dana Lee, whose son, Taylor, is on the spectrum, and is about to start Kindergarten. So what are some of the ways to help your neuro-diverse child navigate school? We spoke with Marc Taillefer, a learning support teacher from the North Vancouver School District, about how schools support kids on the spectrum. And we reached out to Behaviour Consultant Kathryn Theroux for great advice for parents on how to advocate for your child in school.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Having autism is tough at school because the teacher always
talks too fast or her speech is boring and it's
too much information.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, first I have to like think about what to
say to them like, " Hey, guess what happened to me today?"
Like that kind of thing. Sometimes though I'd be like, "
Are you scared about the test today?" or something like that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I try to listen as much as possible, but I
think this speech is very boring and so that's where I go on my computer.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
They don't really like start conversations with me that much.
I think I should also be in like the more
public spaces at the school. I don't really go there though
because I like to watch YouTube videos while I'm having
lunch, and I always go to like quiet places to
do that where there's like not that many people.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Personally, I don't like having get talked to about what
to do, what to say, and they're like, " Okay, so
you have to say this and do this." I don't really
like it when people do that.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Like tell me when I can talk. Like you wanted to
say something, you can say something.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Like something that happened in class, like maybe you got a
substitute teacher and you can talk to the student about like how
funny he was or something.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Because in my opinion I just like figuring that sort of
thing out for myself and I don't like people having
to tell me what to do. In fact, I hate being told
what to do. My whole life I've seemed to be
bossed around and I'm getting sick of that.
Katie Bennison (01:29):
Those are high school students from our teen round table
talking about what it's like to go to school when
you're living with autism. Hi, I'm Katie Bennison and this
is Life on the Spectrum. Bright lit classrooms, crowded hallways,
loud cafeterias, constant bells ringing, learning comprehension, awkward social situations.
(01:53):
These are just a few of the challenges kids with
autism face when they go to school. On this week's
podcast, we're heading back to class. We'll talk to someone
who spends a lot of time visiting schools, behavior consultant,
Kathryn Theroux, and she'll share how parents can best navigate
the education system. We'll speak with learning support teacher, Marc
(02:13):
Taillefer about what strategies he uses to help kids on
the spectrum succeed in school. But first we caught up
with Dana Lee. Now the first day of kindergarten is a
big step in any child's development. It means more socializing,
more structure, more independence from family. It can also be
a nerve wracking experience, not only for the kids but
(02:36):
also for their parents. How will your child adjust? Will
the teacher understand their needs? Will they be okay? When
you have a child with autism, those questions can weigh
even more heavily. As a mom of twin boys, Dana
can definitely relate. Taylor and Jason are five years old.
Jason does not have autism, but Taylor does. When we
(02:59):
spoke with Dana, the kids were just about to go
into kindergarten and I started by asking her how she
felt about Taylor starting school.
Dana Lee (03:08):
To be perfectly honest, I'm nervous, a little bit scared
for him, but also kind of excited to see what
the start of school is going to do for him.
We felt nervous before he started preschool in terms of
finding the right environment for him. And that turned out
to be such a great experience for him that I
want to have that same optimism going forward.
Katie Bennison (03:29):
So what are your main concerns?
Dana Lee (03:32):
So the number one concern is safety. So Taylor tends
to have very little sense of danger. He doesn't understand
just basic safety rules. So you're supposed to stay with
an adult when you're five. He doesn't feel like that
applies to him and he doesn't socialize in typical ways.
(03:55):
So it's not like he knows who to approach and
who not to when he's doesn't feel safe or when
he's uncomfortable or when something's going on for him that
he doesn't understand. I want to make sure that he's
feeling challenged and feeling stimulated. He's actually very academically strong.
So when he was three we discovered that he had
(04:15):
learned how to read on his own, and he probably
knows how to read over 500 words now. And we
hope that people also want to know more about Taylor,
not just from a curiosity perspective, like, " Why is that
boy behaving so strangely?" but tell us more about autism
and how it affects individuals and how can we better
support people who have it.
Katie Bennison (04:37):
So when you went to the kindergarten orientation, was it
just for parents, or you took the boys?
Dana Lee (04:43):
It was for the students who were entering kindergarten as
well as the parents.
Katie Bennison (04:47):
So how did it go for Taylor when you met
with the teachers?
Dana Lee (04:52):
So it was a bit overwhelming, admittedly. I mean Taylor
found it hard to sit still in the room, so
it was just kind of stressful actually because-
Katie Bennison (05:01):
Why, what happened?
Dana Lee (05:02):
Well, it was a new environment for Taylor, so he
was just wanting to explore everywhere, and all the other
kids were sitting nicely, but not ours. And he's really
interested in sounds that he can make. So right now
he's really into flicking glass windows with his two fingers
(05:24):
and it creates this very satisfying sound and sensation for
him. And so he was immediately drawn to all the
windows in every room we went to, and he would
just break through everyone to get to the windows at
the far side of the room so that he could
get his flicking on them. And people were like looking
at us and kind of, " What's going on there?" I
(05:46):
don't think there was any ill will, but people are
curious like what's affecting that child?
Katie Bennison (05:51):
How does Taylor feel about starting school?
Dana Lee (05:55):
I don't think he knows what's in store for him.
I think Jason was definitely more aware and he was
quite upset when preschool ended. They both really enjoyed their
preschool experience and we're hoping that kindergarten will provide them
with that kind of academic and just learning environment where
there's just so much to see and to do and
(06:16):
to explore. And it's introduced in a way that it's
much more structured and I think he can benefit from
that. I think learning organically is wonderful, but I think
with Taylor, he does need more structure and things kind
of like put in front of him. And I would
love for him to feel really mentally stimulated and challenged,
(06:38):
and to maybe like learn to develop his speech skills
so that now he can actually start expressing more than
just his needs but actually social comments like, " That's so
cool." Or, " I really like this." I mean it would
be wonderful to hear those things from him.
Katie Bennison (06:55):
That was parent Dana Lee. Of course every parent wants
what's best for their child and they want them to
succeed in school. But for parents of kids with autism
spectrum disorder, what's best isn't always clear, and there are
so many questions along the way. Should I put my
child in the public system or a private school? What
can I do to prepare them? What about the teachers
and support staff? What do I say to them? Well,
(07:18):
that's where Kathryn Theroux comes in. Kathryn is a behavior
consultant for school aged kids on the spectrum. She helps
families make clear plans for kids with learning and behavioral
issues. She's also the director of Soar and inclusive preschool
in Richmond, British Columbia, and she helps train teachers and
other professionals. I started by asking her if she could
(07:40):
explain what a behavior consultant is.
Kathryn Theroux (07:43):
Absolutely. Behavior consultants are the clinical directors of behavioral intervention
programs. So the goals that are collaborated on with parents,
the intervention strategies that are used to achieve those goals,
the staff training, the program evaluation, that's all the ultimate
responsibility of the behavior consultant.
Katie Bennison (08:02):
So you play an integral role supporting students at home
and school. And can you describe the types of things
you do when you go into a school?
Kathryn Theroux (08:11):
Part of it is just to assess the need for
me to be there. Sometimes I'm there because schools have
asked me to come in. Sometimes I'm there because parents
have asked me to come in. So I'm going to
take the temperature of the team that I'm working with
and see how much they recognize that there may or
may not be a problem present. Then once I've established
that I can go in and assess the child in
(08:32):
the classroom setting, in the recess and lunch room settings,
and work with the team on what might be possible
in terms of intervening on some of the obstacles to
learning and making friends that might be happening for the
child there.
Katie Bennison (08:45):
And what are the biggest challenges for kids with autism
when they're first entering the public school system?
Kathryn Theroux (08:52):
A lot of the challenges for young children, so if
we're talking about first entering, maybe we're thinking kindergarten, are
social. Children with autism struggle to learn in a group,
to pick up on the hidden rules that govern peer
relationships. So you might see that they're struggling with classroom
routines, jacket on and off. What do I do about
(09:15):
snack? What do I do during centers when I want
to share this game with a peer? Am I even
noticing the peers are talking to me and responding appropriately?
So a lot of it is social and then we
may or may not also struggle with some of those pre-
academic goals. But for a lot of kids on the
spectrum, those are actually less stressful because they tend to
be quite structured, predictable. They fall into patterns, which are
(09:39):
traditional areas of strength for kids on the spectrum. So
I'd say mostly social versus academic problems.
Katie Bennison (09:46):
So what would you say are the biggest challenges for
kids with autism as they move through elementary school?
Kathryn Theroux (09:52):
Once you hit intermediate, there's a huge jump. Play moves
from games and chase to conversation- based relationships. And this
is a real issue that some kids on the spectrum
struggle with. The other piece is there's a line that
says we switch from learning to read to reading to
learn. So if your child is struggling with reading comprehension,
(10:13):
now they need to use those reading skills to pick
up on new information. And that can be a big
area of difficulty. Reading and writing, writing gets a lot
longer. You have to rely more on your own personal
organization skills. So all of those skills come online in
four, five, six and seven.
Katie Bennison (10:31):
Grades four, five, six, seven?
Kathryn Theroux (10:33):
Thank you. Yeah, exactly. So those tend to be the
areas where children who maybe even didn't need that much
support in the primary grades, grades one, two, three, suddenly
start to need issues and the parents might not know
who to go to for support in those situations because
they haven't really needed it for a while.
Katie Bennison (10:50):
What about high school? What would the biggest challenges for
kids with autism be as they move through a high
school or even actually transitioning from elementary school to high school?
Kathryn Theroux (11:01):
If we haven't really addressed the issues we're having an
intermediate grades around longer reading and writing and executive functioning,
personal organization stuff and following longer directions, those things continue
to be an issue. Peer relationships get even more complex,
especially if any kind of romantic feelings or interests are
developing. And then self- advocacy plays a huge role in
(11:23):
high school, because your team goes from being maybe one
or two teachers and one support person to quite a
few teachers who have a big caseload, maybe 300 kids.
So being able to identify the strategies you need to
succeed and tell your teacher about that in an appropriate
way becomes a huge skill for kids.
Katie Bennison (11:43):
So how can parents prepare kids prior to going into kindergarten?
Kathryn Theroux (11:49):
Depending on your learner, the preparation that's required before kindergarten
might look like really trying to recreate a number of
those kindergarten type environments, either in preschool or at home
or a clinic setting for therapy. So learning to sit
still while someone else reads a story, turn- taking games,
(12:10):
gaining someone's attention appropriately. There's a lot of pre- kindergarten
skills that can be worked with outside of school. There's
other stuff that they need to work on, like their
emotion regulation or self management skills. All of those daily
living skills that happen in school around hand washing and
toileting. So a lot of it is similar to what
other preschoolers are working on, but probably more intensively and
(12:32):
in a more structured way so that we're helping those
children carry over the learning from the therapy environment into
a more school like setting.
Katie Bennison (12:43):
So how can parents help kids as they move through
the school years?
Kathryn Theroux (12:49):
I would say looking a couple years forward at what
skills you want your child to have and then making
a plan as how we're going to acquire those skills
is really important. And I know this is a burden
for families. It's hard to deal just with the day
to day issues of being a parent, let alone a
parent of a child with a neuro diverse condition like
(13:10):
autism. But when you can, being able to take a
breath and look at the big picture of what do
we need in a few years, is hugely helpful because
then you set your goals and you reorganize your priorities
and your resources towards those areas, instead of kind of
flailing about trying to deal with every issue as it
comes up, but not maybe getting to the place you
(13:32):
want to.
Katie Bennison (13:33):
Now of course parents also need to navigate the school
system and teachers and support teams. So what advice would
you offer, because that can be really stressful for parents?
Kathryn Theroux (13:43):
That can be so stressful for parents. Again, let alone
when your child has some kind of learning difference or
socializing issue. One, I think is to always try to
go into it with a positive attitude and find something
in common with the people. Like we're all here hoping
for a plan to help so- and- so succeed. We
all want to see him make friends this year. We
(14:05):
all want to see her learn those times tables. Because
often our goals are similar, but the way we think
those goals need to be achieved might be different. And
that's where compromise and really listening and taking into account
others' perspectives, while at the same time trying to be
really clear and firm about what are, let's say, like
the deal- breaker issues for your kid. My kid must
(14:27):
sit in the front, or my kid must have some
reteaching of these concepts, or I need to know what
the unit of inquiry, which is like a big lesson
plan, I need to know what that is coming up
so we can get books out of the library and
I can start prepping her on those concepts.
Katie Bennison (14:42):
And for people who aren't familiar, can you explain what
is an individualized education program or IEP? How does it work?
Kathryn Theroux (14:51):
Absolutely. So IEPs are mandated as a plan for your
child that talks about what goals, above and beyond the
goals of that grade for other kids in the class, your
child is going to be working on. Because realistically schools
receive money for having a kid with a diagnosed disability
registered in their classroom or in their district. So it's
(15:14):
an accountability thing where the school then says, " Okay, this
is how we're using those resources. Were working on this
goal for this student. We're going to do a small
group of peers at lunch to practice turn- taking. We're
going to provide extra support around filling in his agenda
and understanding what the teacher's asking." So that's a way
of looking at the big areas where your child is
(15:36):
struggling and where we want to help them stretch to,
over the course of the year.
Katie Bennison (15:40):
So at an IEP, parents have a very short time
to discuss the entire plan for their child. So what
do you say is the best thing they can do
to maximize their time?
Kathryn Theroux (15:53):
I would say it's two pieces. One is inside the
meeting, the other is what can we do in advance?
So inside the meeting I really recommend that if you're
at all, especially if you're new to the process or
you have some complex issues, bring one of your specialist
team members with you, maybe even two, your psychologist, your
(16:13):
behavior consultant, your SLP, your OT. The people who are
really working on those priority areas for your child, give
them face time with the school team so they can
collaborate on goals and strategies. That also has to do
with being prepared before you get into the meeting so
that you don't waste your time on issues that maybe
aren't so pertinent to you. You don't really care maybe
(16:34):
about the field trips, but you do really care on
what that next big lesson is that the kids should
be finding out about. You want to make sure you
get that ahead of time, or you want to make
sure that there's a goal in there around learning to
use their planner independently. Whatever those things are, have them on
a list and make sure you get to them relatively
early, maybe in the first half of the meeting so
that you have a chance of getting that stuff talked
(16:56):
about with a real meaningful plan of who's going to
do what to move this forward. Ahead of the meeting,
I suggest that parents really maximize the other avenues of
contact that you have with your school team. So that
might be the little five to 10 minute parent teacher
meet and greet that they do early in the year.
Or I often recommend that parents write an email or
(17:17):
a little one page letter on brightly colored paper that
talks about some key features of your child's profile. She
really likes this. These are some triggers for her. She
might get anxious, if she does, I recommend this, those
sorts of things, and using language that's really open to collaboration. "
What we've found works at home is this," or " I've
(17:41):
been told by other professionals to do X," that kind
of stuff. So that you're not coming in looking like
a demanding parent necessarily, but you do look like an
assertive parent who knows their child well.
Katie Bennison (17:52):
So one decision parents have to make is whether to
send their kids to public school or to schools geared
specifically to kids with autism. How do you approach that?
Kathryn Theroux (18:02):
So a family really has to think about what are
my top goals or hopes and dreams for my kid,
and what's the best setting to work on those things.
Because that can change depending on year to year development,
other issues that come up. Plenty of children's start in
a more specialized program and slowly move into a more
(18:23):
integrated setting where they're with mainstream peers. Some children do
the opposite and they do elementary school within a public
school classroom and then for high school they really want
to focus on some specialty areas. So they move into
a distributed learning program maybe, which is another word for
homeschooling, and they work on those specific things with one- to-
(18:44):
one tutors outside of school. It really depends on that
child's profile.
Katie Bennison (18:48):
We hear a lot about modified and adapted programs. What
is the difference?
Kathryn Theroux (18:55):
That's a great question because it's a real area of
confusion for parents. The difference between modified and adapted has
everything to do with the curriculum goals for that grade.
So if you're working on an adapted program, that means
you're still pursuing the goals of let's say grade 10,
but with extra support strategies to help you meet those
(19:15):
goals. If you're working on a modified program, that means
that in one subject area, like math, or across all
subject areas, depending, you're going to be working on goals
that are important for you, the learner, but not necessarily
that similar to what other grade 10's are working on.
Katie Bennison (19:33):
So if parents decide to go for a modified program,
will their child still get a high school diploma?
Kathryn Theroux (19:42):
Parents really worry about that and the answer is in
most provinces or in the states, there's some kind of
diploma available for finishing out your time in high school.
If you work on an adapted curriculum and so you
meet those goals that everyone else is meeting just with
a little bit of different support, then you'll get some
kind of final diploma. In B. C. We call it
(20:03):
a Dogwood Diploma. That's the diploma that universities are going
to be looking for. It means you've finished a certain
type of credit, a certain type of program. Other children
will get a different kind of diploma that more means
they finished up their individualized program. In B. C. We
call it the school leaving certificate or the Evergreen Diploma,
and they will still participate in all the grade 12
(20:24):
activities that they want to, go through all of those
rites of passage, walk with their classmates, all of that.
But if they're then thinking of post- secondary, there may
be credits here and there that they need to catch
up on before they meet those entrance requirements.
Katie Bennison (20:39):
So what is the best way for parents to make
that decision, adapted or modified?
Kathryn Theroux (20:46):
I think you want to get as much advice from
people who really know your situation and your child as
possible. And then I always say to wait as long
as possible before you make that call. In B. C.,
you don't have to decide really until grade 10, and
then you make that decision when you have as much
information at your disposal as you can.
Katie Bennison (21:06):
So do you have any final words of advice for parents?
Kathryn Theroux (21:10):
I think I would focus on the fact that this
is often an overwhelming process, figuring out the support that
your child needs and it can feel sometimes like fighting
an uphill battle, trying to put a square peg in
a round hole and all of that. And that's because
school systems still are built around this idea of a
mythological normal student. That there is a majority learner and
(21:33):
then children with special needs are kind of around the
outskirts and we're trying to fit them in where they
can be fit in. But the truth is there is
no normal learner. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, areas
of challenge and the more all parents can advocate and
not be discouraged and keep pushing as much as you
(21:54):
can, the better the system will learn to anticipate these
needs and respond so that later on we won't have
to fight as hard because we'll be looking at individualized
learning for everyone.
Katie Bennison (22:08):
That was Kathryn Theroux, a behavior consultant and the director
of an inclusive preschool near Vancouver. She spends a lot
of time, as you can hear, in the schools making
visits in the classroom and attending IEPs. This is Life
on the Spectrum. I'm Katie Benison, and if you like
what you're hearing, please like, subscribe and share us on
(22:30):
Apple podcasts or wherever you happen to listen. And for
more content, check out our website lifeonthespectrumpodcast. com.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Because we had a diagnosis, he had support all the
way through from the day he started kindergarten until the
day he walked out of grade seven. In high school
it starts to become a little bit different. They don't
really have the same kind of support in high school.
Speaker 9 (23:00):
If I think back to the things that worked well, I think it's
that daily communication, that way to sort of... Like any
advance subjects, class projects, outside school events, so I would
say some type of daily communication system or check- in
or routine and to really advocate for that.
Speaker 10 (23:22):
Being in constant communication with the school, with the learning support
teacher, with the EAs, with the whole team is a
key. Each should be there and sometimes we have to
little bit push for that. But I do that. Like
at the first day of school I send an email
(23:42):
and I'm like, " Don't think I'm one of those crazy moms, but I
might be, so bear with me," and that helps.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
I am that pain in the butt, and definitely I do it.
I never wanted to. At the beginning I was like, " Oh
no, I don't want to be that person," but you
know what? Be that person. Your kid, they deserve it
and you do it nicely, lots of hearts and smiles
and whenever and thank you's. But the teachers are very
responsive to that, and it helps so much just to
have that communication and say, " This is coming up. How
(24:12):
can we help? How can we work on this together
to get the best outcome?" Because they want the best
outcome too.
Katie Bennison (24:20):
Those were some voices from our parent round table. They
have teens with autism and they were sharing some of
their thoughts on navigating the school system. Now over the
last several decades, most classroom sizes have grown, budgets have
been cut, and teachers don't have the same resources they
(24:43):
used to. At the same time, the need for more
individualized learning has grown. Having professional support in school can
make an enormous difference for kids with autism. It's something
that Marc Taillefer thinks about a lot. Marc is a
learning resource teacher at Sutherland Secondary School in North Vancouver,
(25:03):
and he's been supporting students with various needs for over
16 years. He's worked in both the private and public
school systems, at elementary and high schools. So I started
by asking him about the difficulties kids with autism are
likely to face in school.
Marc Taillefer (25:20):
So often it's things that come across as being not
socially fitting in, not being able to transition very well, maybe
from class to class or activity to activity. Sometimes it
looks like maybe not being able to react in an
expected way. So maybe sometimes that might look like an
emotional outburst or maybe even the lack of an emotional reaction.
Katie Bennison (25:43):
So what are some of the ways that an education
assistant will support kids with autism in elementary school?
Marc Taillefer (25:51):
It'll often be with life skills. Something as simple as
hygiene. It could be social things like playing out on
the playground or interacting in groups when students are doing
work or collaborating in groups in class. It could be
supporting them with their academic work, especially language based academic
work. So helping them comprehend texts. It could be just
(26:12):
sitting in helping them break down assignments so that they
understand what to do. We're going to start to match
the students need to become more independent, so when we
get to high school, they need to circulate through different
classes, they're going to have a multitude of teachers. So
what we often start doing is we make sure that
we're not over supporting and we're providing... I'm very careful
(26:33):
to use the word that support is lessened, reduced or
taken away. I think what we do is we adapt
and we change support to the students' needs. We want
a student to become more independent, so we're going to
fade back a little bit into the background. We're going
to start making observations, making the student more responsible to
coming to us and reviewing how things went so they
(26:55):
can start to think more analytically and critically about themselves.
At a high school level, some of the things that
we might start to work on though that might look
a little bit different, would be that transitioning out of
high school. And also, depending on the ability of the
student, it could be understanding what a more complex social
world looks like, what a more complex academic world looks
(27:16):
like with higher demands. Increased independence is often expected in
all different types of skill sets. And then of course
as you get to the end, it's what does that
going to look like for a person when they leave
high school? Are they going to be employed? Are they
going to be volunteering? Are they going to continue education?
Are they going to be living more independently? So that's
(27:36):
how things can change as you get to high school.
Katie Bennison (27:39):
Often parents can have questions or concerns, and they might
be a bit shy about raising them. What's the best
way for parents to raise concerns outside of an IEP?
Marc Taillefer (27:51):
Email is good. Coming in and making appointments to sit down
and chat is good. I've had parents where I've realized
that they're just very uncomfortable and there needs to be
relationship building. So what I do is I sit down
and I set a monthly meeting where we just check
in. Maybe I can get the EAs there so that
they can bring their observations, and we can tweak what
they're doing and monitor what they're doing so that it
(28:13):
all goes in the way that we're all expecting it
to go. Sometimes we have daily logs, and that can
be done through paper- and- pencil kind of format where
we have a logbook we're sending home. I've had methods
where we've used Google docs and we set up templates, then
the parents' able to check, just live, or at the
end of the day before they receive their child. Because
(28:34):
sometimes it makes sense for them to know what has
happened in the day so that they know how they're
going to receive their child, especially as they get older
and into high school. It's really endless, but I think
that's something that you would just need to bring up
with a learning sport teacher administrator and ask them, " How
do you want me to communicate with you?"
Katie Bennison (28:52):
What are some things that parents can do to optimize
their kids' school experience in elementary school? Is there anything
they can do at home, say to prepare them for
kindergarten and start of school?
Marc Taillefer (29:07):
Starting with the things that I think are good for
every child is just to climatize them to the environment. Do
things like walk- bys at the school, play in the
playground, have some play dates, if you can organize them
in the playground. My child's school has a Facebook page
or a parent communication page and I saw for kindergarten
this year they were inviting parents to come at the
(29:28):
end of August to meet and greet the parents and
play with the students. Depending on your comfort level while
you're chatting with parents, you may want to explain to
them what's going on because one of the things that
I've seen, especially at the kindergarten, grade one level, is
all the parents are anxious. And when you get unexpected
behavior that people can't understand, sometimes explaining, if you feel
(29:48):
comfortable, if you can, can go a long way.
Katie Bennison (29:52):
And then what can parents do to help prepare their child
for transitioning from elementary school into high school?
Marc Taillefer (30:00):
So here we're working with grade sevens who are moving
into grade eight, and there's a variety of things that
parents have already reached out to do. And often I
will actually request that parents do these things by sending
out an email months, often, even a year prior to
the transition. And those are things like coming into the
(30:21):
school. I like to meet the parents. I like to
find out what their perspective are on their child. Any
fears or anxieties I like to dispel or try and
answer questions. I like to go to the student's environment,
so I'm in their territory and they feel comfortable and
they can show me around and be kind of a
leader. And then I like to invite them to my
environment, which will eventually be theirs, to show them what
(30:42):
they can expect so that they're not anxious about it.
Sometimes that also looks like them coming on some outings
with us. Sometimes it looks like spending some time observing
a classroom. Sometimes it looks like sitting down and bringing
some work into my space and them doing some work so
they can get the feeling for how it feels to
do what they already know how to do in a
(31:03):
different environment.
Katie Bennison (31:05):
What do you find most satisfying about your work, Marc?
Marc Taillefer (31:09):
To tell you the truth, I really think of my
job as just community service. Specifically with the students that
I work with, I've always felt that a place where
I can help is those who are often overlooked or
misunderstood, those who require some advocacy and support. I felt
that I'm able to come in and explain to people
(31:30):
that actually this is why this student is doing this,
this is what you can do, and then really show
them very quickly that when they changed their perspective and
what they do, the behavior changes, the mood changes, the
experience for everyone changes. And for me, I'm really satisfied
that I've been able to enact some of those things
(31:53):
and support in that way, and that's what I really
get a lot of encouragement from to continue doing this.
Katie Bennison (31:59):
Marc Taillefer is a learning resource teacher at Sutherland Secondary
School in North Vancouver, British Columbia.
Speaker 9 (32:16):
I looked at Dylan as my teacher and I'm a
student and just really shifting how I show up and
really kind of change to building a life and find
out what you're passionate about and what you love. If
he can just get back in a seat in school, regardless
of it's an adapted program or any program it's in,
(32:37):
and he can just make it through. I think kids
will thrive if they find that thing that they're passionate
about. And for me the last year it's about finding
that way to build a life through his passions. That's
really important.
Speaker 8 (32:50):
Academically, he does pretty good and I just keep saying
to him, " You don't have to be at the top
of your class. You don't have to be valedictorian, you
don't have to get straight A's. This is high school
and the rest of your life doesn't hinge on whether
or not you ace high school. We are going to
(33:10):
get you through high school and when you get out the
other side, you get to pick something that you really want
to do with your life." And I think he's going
to be great.
Katie Bennison (33:21):
Those were some parents from our round table recording with
some words of encouragement for their teenagers about school. Well,
that's the end of our school day here at Life
on the Spectrum. I hope you've learned a few tips,
perhaps feel a little more confident next time you have
to go into a school meeting or advocate for your
(33:43):
child in a certain situation. We hope you're enjoying our
podcast and that it's helpful. Make sure to subscribe wherever
you get your podcasts, and then you'll know all about
our upcoming episodes. Give us a review if you like,
and please share with your friends so you can help
us reach more people. Our website is lifeonthespectrumpodcast. com. You
(34:04):
can also find us on Facebook. In our next episode,
we'll be talking all about funding and financing and balancing
those autism related expenses. In later episodes, we'll be taking
a look at the teenage years and we have a
feature interview coming up with autism trailblazer, Temple Grandin, you
(34:24):
won't want to miss that. Well, that's it for now.
I'm Katie Bennison. Thanks so much for listening.
Having autism is tough at school because the teacher always
talks too fast or her speech is boring and it's
too much information.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, first I have to like think about what to
say to them like, " Hey, guess what happened to me today?"
Like that kind of thing. Sometimes though I'd be like, "
Are you scared about the test today?" or something like that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I try to listen as much as possible, but I
think this speech is very boring and so that's where I go on my computer.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
They don't really like start conversations with me that much.
I think I should also be in like the more
public spaces at the school. I don't really go there though
because I like to watch YouTube videos while I'm having
lunch, and I always go to like quiet places to
do that where there's like not that many people.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Personally, I don't like having get talked to about what
to do, what to say, and they're like, " Okay, so
you have to say this and do this." I don't really
like it when people do that.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Like tell me when I can talk. Like you wanted to
say something, you can say something.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Like something that happened in class, like maybe you got a
substitute teacher and you can talk to the student about like how
funny he was or something.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Because in my opinion I just like figuring that sort of
thing out for myself and I don't like people having
to tell me what to do. In fact, I hate being told
what to do. My whole life I've seemed to be
bossed around and I'm getting sick of that.
Katie Bennison (01:29):
Those are high school students from our teen round table
talking about what it's like to go to school when
you're living with autism. Hi, I'm Katie Bennison and this
is Life on the Spectrum. Bright lit classrooms, crowded hallways,
loud cafeterias, constant bells ringing, learning comprehension, awkward social situations.
(01:53):
These are just a few of the challenges kids with
autism face when they go to school. On this week's
podcast, we're heading back to class. We'll talk to someone
who spends a lot of time visiting schools, behavior consultant,
Kathryn Theroux, and she'll share how parents can best navigate
the education system. We'll speak with learning support teacher, Marc
(02:13):
Taillefer about what strategies he uses to help kids on
the spectrum succeed in school. But first we caught up
with Dana Lee. Now the first day of kindergarten is a
big step in any child's development. It means more socializing,
more structure, more independence from family. It can also be
a nerve wracking experience, not only for the kids but
(02:36):
also for their parents. How will your child adjust? Will
the teacher understand their needs? Will they be okay? When
you have a child with autism, those questions can weigh
even more heavily. As a mom of twin boys, Dana
can definitely relate. Taylor and Jason are five years old.
Jason does not have autism, but Taylor does. When we
(02:59):
spoke with Dana, the kids were just about to go
into kindergarten and I started by asking her how she
felt about Taylor starting school.
Dana Lee (03:08):
To be perfectly honest, I'm nervous, a little bit scared
for him, but also kind of excited to see what
the start of school is going to do for him.
We felt nervous before he started preschool in terms of
finding the right environment for him. And that turned out
to be such a great experience for him that I
want to have that same optimism going forward.
Katie Bennison (03:29):
So what are your main concerns?
Dana Lee (03:32):
So the number one concern is safety. So Taylor tends
to have very little sense of danger. He doesn't understand
just basic safety rules. So you're supposed to stay with
an adult when you're five. He doesn't feel like that
applies to him and he doesn't socialize in typical ways.
(03:55):
So it's not like he knows who to approach and
who not to when he's doesn't feel safe or when
he's uncomfortable or when something's going on for him that
he doesn't understand. I want to make sure that he's
feeling challenged and feeling stimulated. He's actually very academically strong.
So when he was three we discovered that he had
(04:15):
learned how to read on his own, and he probably
knows how to read over 500 words now. And we
hope that people also want to know more about Taylor,
not just from a curiosity perspective, like, " Why is that
boy behaving so strangely?" but tell us more about autism
and how it affects individuals and how can we better
support people who have it.
Katie Bennison (04:37):
So when you went to the kindergarten orientation, was it
just for parents, or you took the boys?
Dana Lee (04:43):
It was for the students who were entering kindergarten as
well as the parents.
Katie Bennison (04:47):
So how did it go for Taylor when you met
with the teachers?
Dana Lee (04:52):
So it was a bit overwhelming, admittedly. I mean Taylor
found it hard to sit still in the room, so
it was just kind of stressful actually because-
Katie Bennison (05:01):
Why, what happened?
Dana Lee (05:02):
Well, it was a new environment for Taylor, so he
was just wanting to explore everywhere, and all the other
kids were sitting nicely, but not ours. And he's really
interested in sounds that he can make. So right now
he's really into flicking glass windows with his two fingers
(05:24):
and it creates this very satisfying sound and sensation for
him. And so he was immediately drawn to all the
windows in every room we went to, and he would
just break through everyone to get to the windows at
the far side of the room so that he could
get his flicking on them. And people were like looking
at us and kind of, " What's going on there?" I
(05:46):
don't think there was any ill will, but people are
curious like what's affecting that child?
Katie Bennison (05:51):
How does Taylor feel about starting school?
Dana Lee (05:55):
I don't think he knows what's in store for him.
I think Jason was definitely more aware and he was
quite upset when preschool ended. They both really enjoyed their
preschool experience and we're hoping that kindergarten will provide them
with that kind of academic and just learning environment where
there's just so much to see and to do and
(06:16):
to explore. And it's introduced in a way that it's
much more structured and I think he can benefit from
that. I think learning organically is wonderful, but I think
with Taylor, he does need more structure and things kind
of like put in front of him. And I would
love for him to feel really mentally stimulated and challenged,
(06:38):
and to maybe like learn to develop his speech skills
so that now he can actually start expressing more than
just his needs but actually social comments like, " That's so
cool." Or, " I really like this." I mean it would
be wonderful to hear those things from him.
Katie Bennison (06:55):
That was parent Dana Lee. Of course every parent wants
what's best for their child and they want them to
succeed in school. But for parents of kids with autism
spectrum disorder, what's best isn't always clear, and there are
so many questions along the way. Should I put my
child in the public system or a private school? What
can I do to prepare them? What about the teachers
and support staff? What do I say to them? Well,
(07:18):
that's where Kathryn Theroux comes in. Kathryn is a behavior
consultant for school aged kids on the spectrum. She helps
families make clear plans for kids with learning and behavioral
issues. She's also the director of Soar and inclusive preschool
in Richmond, British Columbia, and she helps train teachers and
other professionals. I started by asking her if she could
(07:40):
explain what a behavior consultant is.
Kathryn Theroux (07:43):
Absolutely. Behavior consultants are the clinical directors of behavioral intervention
programs. So the goals that are collaborated on with parents,
the intervention strategies that are used to achieve those goals,
the staff training, the program evaluation, that's all the ultimate
responsibility of the behavior consultant.
Katie Bennison (08:02):
So you play an integral role supporting students at home
and school. And can you describe the types of things
you do when you go into a school?
Kathryn Theroux (08:11):
Part of it is just to assess the need for
me to be there. Sometimes I'm there because schools have
asked me to come in. Sometimes I'm there because parents
have asked me to come in. So I'm going to
take the temperature of the team that I'm working with
and see how much they recognize that there may or
may not be a problem present. Then once I've established
that I can go in and assess the child in
(08:32):
the classroom setting, in the recess and lunch room settings,
and work with the team on what might be possible
in terms of intervening on some of the obstacles to
learning and making friends that might be happening for the
child there.
Katie Bennison (08:45):
And what are the biggest challenges for kids with autism
when they're first entering the public school system?
Kathryn Theroux (08:52):
A lot of the challenges for young children, so if
we're talking about first entering, maybe we're thinking kindergarten, are
social. Children with autism struggle to learn in a group,
to pick up on the hidden rules that govern peer
relationships. So you might see that they're struggling with classroom
routines, jacket on and off. What do I do about
(09:15):
snack? What do I do during centers when I want
to share this game with a peer? Am I even
noticing the peers are talking to me and responding appropriately?
So a lot of it is social and then we
may or may not also struggle with some of those pre-
academic goals. But for a lot of kids on the
spectrum, those are actually less stressful because they tend to
be quite structured, predictable. They fall into patterns, which are
(09:39):
traditional areas of strength for kids on the spectrum. So
I'd say mostly social versus academic problems.
Katie Bennison (09:46):
So what would you say are the biggest challenges for
kids with autism as they move through elementary school?
Kathryn Theroux (09:52):
Once you hit intermediate, there's a huge jump. Play moves
from games and chase to conversation- based relationships. And this
is a real issue that some kids on the spectrum
struggle with. The other piece is there's a line that
says we switch from learning to read to reading to
learn. So if your child is struggling with reading comprehension,
(10:13):
now they need to use those reading skills to pick
up on new information. And that can be a big
area of difficulty. Reading and writing, writing gets a lot
longer. You have to rely more on your own personal
organization skills. So all of those skills come online in
four, five, six and seven.
Katie Bennison (10:31):
Grades four, five, six, seven?
Kathryn Theroux (10:33):
Thank you. Yeah, exactly. So those tend to be the
areas where children who maybe even didn't need that much
support in the primary grades, grades one, two, three, suddenly
start to need issues and the parents might not know
who to go to for support in those situations because
they haven't really needed it for a while.
Katie Bennison (10:50):
What about high school? What would the biggest challenges for
kids with autism be as they move through a high
school or even actually transitioning from elementary school to high school?
Kathryn Theroux (11:01):
If we haven't really addressed the issues we're having an
intermediate grades around longer reading and writing and executive functioning,
personal organization stuff and following longer directions, those things continue
to be an issue. Peer relationships get even more complex,
especially if any kind of romantic feelings or interests are
developing. And then self- advocacy plays a huge role in
(11:23):
high school, because your team goes from being maybe one
or two teachers and one support person to quite a
few teachers who have a big caseload, maybe 300 kids.
So being able to identify the strategies you need to
succeed and tell your teacher about that in an appropriate
way becomes a huge skill for kids.
Katie Bennison (11:43):
So how can parents prepare kids prior to going into kindergarten?
Kathryn Theroux (11:49):
Depending on your learner, the preparation that's required before kindergarten
might look like really trying to recreate a number of
those kindergarten type environments, either in preschool or at home
or a clinic setting for therapy. So learning to sit
still while someone else reads a story, turn- taking games,
(12:10):
gaining someone's attention appropriately. There's a lot of pre- kindergarten
skills that can be worked with outside of school. There's
other stuff that they need to work on, like their
emotion regulation or self management skills. All of those daily
living skills that happen in school around hand washing and
toileting. So a lot of it is similar to what
other preschoolers are working on, but probably more intensively and
(12:32):
in a more structured way so that we're helping those
children carry over the learning from the therapy environment into
a more school like setting.
Katie Bennison (12:43):
So how can parents help kids as they move through
the school years?
Kathryn Theroux (12:49):
I would say looking a couple years forward at what
skills you want your child to have and then making
a plan as how we're going to acquire those skills
is really important. And I know this is a burden
for families. It's hard to deal just with the day
to day issues of being a parent, let alone a
parent of a child with a neuro diverse condition like
(13:10):
autism. But when you can, being able to take a
breath and look at the big picture of what do
we need in a few years, is hugely helpful because
then you set your goals and you reorganize your priorities
and your resources towards those areas, instead of kind of
flailing about trying to deal with every issue as it
comes up, but not maybe getting to the place you
(13:32):
want to.
Katie Bennison (13:33):
Now of course parents also need to navigate the school
system and teachers and support teams. So what advice would
you offer, because that can be really stressful for parents?
Kathryn Theroux (13:43):
That can be so stressful for parents. Again, let alone
when your child has some kind of learning difference or
socializing issue. One, I think is to always try to
go into it with a positive attitude and find something
in common with the people. Like we're all here hoping
for a plan to help so- and- so succeed. We
all want to see him make friends this year. We
(14:05):
all want to see her learn those times tables. Because
often our goals are similar, but the way we think
those goals need to be achieved might be different. And
that's where compromise and really listening and taking into account
others' perspectives, while at the same time trying to be
really clear and firm about what are, let's say, like
the deal- breaker issues for your kid. My kid must
(14:27):
sit in the front, or my kid must have some
reteaching of these concepts, or I need to know what
the unit of inquiry, which is like a big lesson
plan, I need to know what that is coming up
so we can get books out of the library and
I can start prepping her on those concepts.
Katie Bennison (14:42):
And for people who aren't familiar, can you explain what
is an individualized education program or IEP? How does it work?
Kathryn Theroux (14:51):
Absolutely. So IEPs are mandated as a plan for your
child that talks about what goals, above and beyond the
goals of that grade for other kids in the class, your
child is going to be working on. Because realistically schools
receive money for having a kid with a diagnosed disability
registered in their classroom or in their district. So it's
(15:14):
an accountability thing where the school then says, " Okay, this
is how we're using those resources. Were working on this
goal for this student. We're going to do a small
group of peers at lunch to practice turn- taking. We're
going to provide extra support around filling in his agenda
and understanding what the teacher's asking." So that's a way
of looking at the big areas where your child is
(15:36):
struggling and where we want to help them stretch to,
over the course of the year.
Katie Bennison (15:40):
So at an IEP, parents have a very short time
to discuss the entire plan for their child. So what
do you say is the best thing they can do
to maximize their time?
Kathryn Theroux (15:53):
I would say it's two pieces. One is inside the
meeting, the other is what can we do in advance?
So inside the meeting I really recommend that if you're
at all, especially if you're new to the process or
you have some complex issues, bring one of your specialist
team members with you, maybe even two, your psychologist, your
(16:13):
behavior consultant, your SLP, your OT. The people who are
really working on those priority areas for your child, give
them face time with the school team so they can
collaborate on goals and strategies. That also has to do
with being prepared before you get into the meeting so
that you don't waste your time on issues that maybe
aren't so pertinent to you. You don't really care maybe
(16:34):
about the field trips, but you do really care on
what that next big lesson is that the kids should
be finding out about. You want to make sure you
get that ahead of time, or you want to make
sure that there's a goal in there around learning to
use their planner independently. Whatever those things are, have them on
a list and make sure you get to them relatively
early, maybe in the first half of the meeting so
that you have a chance of getting that stuff talked
(16:56):
about with a real meaningful plan of who's going to
do what to move this forward. Ahead of the meeting,
I suggest that parents really maximize the other avenues of
contact that you have with your school team. So that
might be the little five to 10 minute parent teacher
meet and greet that they do early in the year.
Or I often recommend that parents write an email or
(17:17):
a little one page letter on brightly colored paper that
talks about some key features of your child's profile. She
really likes this. These are some triggers for her. She
might get anxious, if she does, I recommend this, those
sorts of things, and using language that's really open to collaboration. "
What we've found works at home is this," or " I've
(17:41):
been told by other professionals to do X," that kind
of stuff. So that you're not coming in looking like
a demanding parent necessarily, but you do look like an
assertive parent who knows their child well.
Katie Bennison (17:52):
So one decision parents have to make is whether to
send their kids to public school or to schools geared
specifically to kids with autism. How do you approach that?
Kathryn Theroux (18:02):
So a family really has to think about what are
my top goals or hopes and dreams for my kid,
and what's the best setting to work on those things.
Because that can change depending on year to year development,
other issues that come up. Plenty of children's start in
a more specialized program and slowly move into a more
(18:23):
integrated setting where they're with mainstream peers. Some children do
the opposite and they do elementary school within a public
school classroom and then for high school they really want
to focus on some specialty areas. So they move into
a distributed learning program maybe, which is another word for
homeschooling, and they work on those specific things with one- to-
(18:44):
one tutors outside of school. It really depends on that
child's profile.
Katie Bennison (18:48):
We hear a lot about modified and adapted programs. What
is the difference?
Kathryn Theroux (18:55):
That's a great question because it's a real area of
confusion for parents. The difference between modified and adapted has
everything to do with the curriculum goals for that grade.
So if you're working on an adapted program, that means
you're still pursuing the goals of let's say grade 10,
but with extra support strategies to help you meet those
(19:15):
goals. If you're working on a modified program, that means
that in one subject area, like math, or across all
subject areas, depending, you're going to be working on goals
that are important for you, the learner, but not necessarily
that similar to what other grade 10's are working on.
Katie Bennison (19:33):
So if parents decide to go for a modified program,
will their child still get a high school diploma?
Kathryn Theroux (19:42):
Parents really worry about that and the answer is in
most provinces or in the states, there's some kind of
diploma available for finishing out your time in high school.
If you work on an adapted curriculum and so you
meet those goals that everyone else is meeting just with
a little bit of different support, then you'll get some
kind of final diploma. In B. C. We call it
(20:03):
a Dogwood Diploma. That's the diploma that universities are going
to be looking for. It means you've finished a certain
type of credit, a certain type of program. Other children
will get a different kind of diploma that more means
they finished up their individualized program. In B. C. We
call it the school leaving certificate or the Evergreen Diploma,
and they will still participate in all the grade 12
(20:24):
activities that they want to, go through all of those
rites of passage, walk with their classmates, all of that.
But if they're then thinking of post- secondary, there may
be credits here and there that they need to catch
up on before they meet those entrance requirements.
Katie Bennison (20:39):
So what is the best way for parents to make
that decision, adapted or modified?
Kathryn Theroux (20:46):
I think you want to get as much advice from
people who really know your situation and your child as
possible. And then I always say to wait as long
as possible before you make that call. In B. C.,
you don't have to decide really until grade 10, and
then you make that decision when you have as much
information at your disposal as you can.
Katie Bennison (21:06):
So do you have any final words of advice for parents?
Kathryn Theroux (21:10):
I think I would focus on the fact that this
is often an overwhelming process, figuring out the support that
your child needs and it can feel sometimes like fighting
an uphill battle, trying to put a square peg in
a round hole and all of that. And that's because
school systems still are built around this idea of a
mythological normal student. That there is a majority learner and
(21:33):
then children with special needs are kind of around the
outskirts and we're trying to fit them in where they
can be fit in. But the truth is there is
no normal learner. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, areas
of challenge and the more all parents can advocate and
not be discouraged and keep pushing as much as you
(21:54):
can, the better the system will learn to anticipate these
needs and respond so that later on we won't have
to fight as hard because we'll be looking at individualized
learning for everyone.
Katie Bennison (22:08):
That was Kathryn Theroux, a behavior consultant and the director
of an inclusive preschool near Vancouver. She spends a lot
of time, as you can hear, in the schools making
visits in the classroom and attending IEPs. This is Life
on the Spectrum. I'm Katie Benison, and if you like
what you're hearing, please like, subscribe and share us on
(22:30):
Apple podcasts or wherever you happen to listen. And for
more content, check out our website lifeonthespectrumpodcast. com.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Because we had a diagnosis, he had support all the
way through from the day he started kindergarten until the
day he walked out of grade seven. In high school
it starts to become a little bit different. They don't
really have the same kind of support in high school.
Speaker 9 (23:00):
If I think back to the things that worked well, I think it's
that daily communication, that way to sort of... Like any
advance subjects, class projects, outside school events, so I would
say some type of daily communication system or check- in
or routine and to really advocate for that.
Speaker 10 (23:22):
Being in constant communication with the school, with the learning support
teacher, with the EAs, with the whole team is a
key. Each should be there and sometimes we have to
little bit push for that. But I do that. Like
at the first day of school I send an email
(23:42):
and I'm like, " Don't think I'm one of those crazy moms, but I
might be, so bear with me," and that helps.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
I am that pain in the butt, and definitely I do it.
I never wanted to. At the beginning I was like, " Oh
no, I don't want to be that person," but you
know what? Be that person. Your kid, they deserve it
and you do it nicely, lots of hearts and smiles
and whenever and thank you's. But the teachers are very
responsive to that, and it helps so much just to
have that communication and say, " This is coming up. How
(24:12):
can we help? How can we work on this together
to get the best outcome?" Because they want the best
outcome too.
Katie Bennison (24:20):
Those were some voices from our parent round table. They
have teens with autism and they were sharing some of
their thoughts on navigating the school system. Now over the
last several decades, most classroom sizes have grown, budgets have
been cut, and teachers don't have the same resources they
(24:43):
used to. At the same time, the need for more
individualized learning has grown. Having professional support in school can
make an enormous difference for kids with autism. It's something
that Marc Taillefer thinks about a lot. Marc is a
learning resource teacher at Sutherland Secondary School in North Vancouver,
(25:03):
and he's been supporting students with various needs for over
16 years. He's worked in both the private and public
school systems, at elementary and high schools. So I started
by asking him about the difficulties kids with autism are
likely to face in school.
Marc Taillefer (25:20):
So often it's things that come across as being not
socially fitting in, not being able to transition very well, maybe
from class to class or activity to activity. Sometimes it
looks like maybe not being able to react in an
expected way. So maybe sometimes that might look like an
emotional outburst or maybe even the lack of an emotional reaction.
Katie Bennison (25:43):
So what are some of the ways that an education
assistant will support kids with autism in elementary school?
Marc Taillefer (25:51):
It'll often be with life skills. Something as simple as
hygiene. It could be social things like playing out on
the playground or interacting in groups when students are doing
work or collaborating in groups in class. It could be
supporting them with their academic work, especially language based academic
work. So helping them comprehend texts. It could be just
(26:12):
sitting in helping them break down assignments so that they
understand what to do. We're going to start to match
the students need to become more independent, so when we
get to high school, they need to circulate through different
classes, they're going to have a multitude of teachers. So
what we often start doing is we make sure that
we're not over supporting and we're providing... I'm very careful
(26:33):
to use the word that support is lessened, reduced or
taken away. I think what we do is we adapt
and we change support to the students' needs. We want
a student to become more independent, so we're going to
fade back a little bit into the background. We're going
to start making observations, making the student more responsible to
coming to us and reviewing how things went so they
(26:55):
can start to think more analytically and critically about themselves.
At a high school level, some of the things that
we might start to work on though that might look
a little bit different, would be that transitioning out of
high school. And also, depending on the ability of the
student, it could be understanding what a more complex social
world looks like, what a more complex academic world looks
(27:16):
like with higher demands. Increased independence is often expected in
all different types of skill sets. And then of course
as you get to the end, it's what does that
going to look like for a person when they leave
high school? Are they going to be employed? Are they
going to be volunteering? Are they going to continue education?
Are they going to be living more independently? So that's
(27:36):
how things can change as you get to high school.
Katie Bennison (27:39):
Often parents can have questions or concerns, and they might
be a bit shy about raising them. What's the best
way for parents to raise concerns outside of an IEP?
Marc Taillefer (27:51):
Email is good. Coming in and making appointments to sit down
and chat is good. I've had parents where I've realized
that they're just very uncomfortable and there needs to be
relationship building. So what I do is I sit down
and I set a monthly meeting where we just check
in. Maybe I can get the EAs there so that
they can bring their observations, and we can tweak what
they're doing and monitor what they're doing so that it
(28:13):
all goes in the way that we're all expecting it
to go. Sometimes we have daily logs, and that can
be done through paper- and- pencil kind of format where
we have a logbook we're sending home. I've had methods
where we've used Google docs and we set up templates, then
the parents' able to check, just live, or at the
end of the day before they receive their child. Because
(28:34):
sometimes it makes sense for them to know what has
happened in the day so that they know how they're
going to receive their child, especially as they get older
and into high school. It's really endless, but I think
that's something that you would just need to bring up
with a learning sport teacher administrator and ask them, " How
do you want me to communicate with you?"
Katie Bennison (28:52):
What are some things that parents can do to optimize
their kids' school experience in elementary school? Is there anything
they can do at home, say to prepare them for
kindergarten and start of school?
Marc Taillefer (29:07):
Starting with the things that I think are good for
every child is just to climatize them to the environment. Do
things like walk- bys at the school, play in the
playground, have some play dates, if you can organize them
in the playground. My child's school has a Facebook page
or a parent communication page and I saw for kindergarten
this year they were inviting parents to come at the
(29:28):
end of August to meet and greet the parents and
play with the students. Depending on your comfort level while
you're chatting with parents, you may want to explain to
them what's going on because one of the things that
I've seen, especially at the kindergarten, grade one level, is
all the parents are anxious. And when you get unexpected
behavior that people can't understand, sometimes explaining, if you feel
(29:48):
comfortable, if you can, can go a long way.
Katie Bennison (29:52):
And then what can parents do to help prepare their child
for transitioning from elementary school into high school?
Marc Taillefer (30:00):
So here we're working with grade sevens who are moving
into grade eight, and there's a variety of things that
parents have already reached out to do. And often I
will actually request that parents do these things by sending
out an email months, often, even a year prior to
the transition. And those are things like coming into the
(30:21):
school. I like to meet the parents. I like to
find out what their perspective are on their child. Any
fears or anxieties I like to dispel or try and
answer questions. I like to go to the student's environment,
so I'm in their territory and they feel comfortable and
they can show me around and be kind of a
leader. And then I like to invite them to my
environment, which will eventually be theirs, to show them what
(30:42):
they can expect so that they're not anxious about it.
Sometimes that also looks like them coming on some outings
with us. Sometimes it looks like spending some time observing
a classroom. Sometimes it looks like sitting down and bringing
some work into my space and them doing some work so
they can get the feeling for how it feels to
do what they already know how to do in a
(31:03):
different environment.
Katie Bennison (31:05):
What do you find most satisfying about your work, Marc?
Marc Taillefer (31:09):
To tell you the truth, I really think of my
job as just community service. Specifically with the students that
I work with, I've always felt that a place where
I can help is those who are often overlooked or
misunderstood, those who require some advocacy and support. I felt
that I'm able to come in and explain to people
(31:30):
that actually this is why this student is doing this,
this is what you can do, and then really show
them very quickly that when they changed their perspective and
what they do, the behavior changes, the mood changes, the
experience for everyone changes. And for me, I'm really satisfied
that I've been able to enact some of those things
(31:53):
and support in that way, and that's what I really
get a lot of encouragement from to continue doing this.
Katie Bennison (31:59):
Marc Taillefer is a learning resource teacher at Sutherland Secondary
School in North Vancouver, British Columbia.
Speaker 9 (32:16):
I looked at Dylan as my teacher and I'm a
student and just really shifting how I show up and
really kind of change to building a life and find
out what you're passionate about and what you love. If
he can just get back in a seat in school, regardless
of it's an adapted program or any program it's in,
(32:37):
and he can just make it through. I think kids
will thrive if they find that thing that they're passionate
about. And for me the last year it's about finding
that way to build a life through his passions. That's
really important.
Speaker 8 (32:50):
Academically, he does pretty good and I just keep saying
to him, " You don't have to be at the top
of your class. You don't have to be valedictorian, you
don't have to get straight A's. This is high school
and the rest of your life doesn't hinge on whether
or not you ace high school. We are going to
(33:10):
get you through high school and when you get out the
other side, you get to pick something that you really want
to do with your life." And I think he's going
to be great.
Katie Bennison (33:21):
Those were some parents from our round table recording with
some words of encouragement for their teenagers about school. Well,
that's the end of our school day here at Life
on the Spectrum. I hope you've learned a few tips,
perhaps feel a little more confident next time you have
to go into a school meeting or advocate for your
(33:43):
child in a certain situation. We hope you're enjoying our
podcast and that it's helpful. Make sure to subscribe wherever
you get your podcasts, and then you'll know all about
our upcoming episodes. Give us a review if you like,
and please share with your friends so you can help
us reach more people. Our website is lifeonthespectrumpodcast. com. You
(34:04):
can also find us on Facebook. In our next episode,
we'll be talking all about funding and financing and balancing
those autism related expenses. In later episodes, we'll be taking
a look at the teenage years and we have a
feature interview coming up with autism trailblazer, Temple Grandin, you
(34:24):
won't want to miss that. Well, that's it for now.
I'm Katie Bennison. Thanks so much for listening.
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