Could you spot the warning signs of non physical violence? Reunited at last! And the bare minimum of dating.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands
were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders
past and present.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on Drug Wallamuta Land. Hi guys, and welcome back
to another episode of Life on Cut.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
I'm Laura, I'm Brittany, and producer Kisha is back Babby.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
She's back from her as. I'm back in body, but
I am not back in mind. I feel like such
a space kit.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
It does that mean we pay you half price then today?
I mean it is. You know how you're paying more
on public holiday? Can we pay the jet lag rates?
It's fair.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
I feel like I'm only half here, like my eye.
You know that jet lag when you get back from Europe,
And it's not so much because of the flight, it's
because of the time difference. So I work up this
morning at two and then I work.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Up at four. You're talking to a woman with two
small children.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
This is such an ass thing, and I feel like
a lot of mums will relate to this. I find
it's so hard to have sympathy when people are like
I didn't sleep well last night. I'm like, oh, but
I know that that is like the biggest dick response
at the same time, and so it takes every fiber
of my body to try and find empathy.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
But I have eathy for me and also pay me
half fris.

Speaker 5 (01:19):
It's also because it's relative, right, Like people that are
like I've got jet lag or I feel tired or whatever,
I'm upset and I haven't slept, well, that's okay because
they don't have kids to compare.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
And every single I.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Say that because I'm like, I'm fucking tired to Laura
and I want to say.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
It, but I can't because you have kids. I don't
know you can say it. You can't say it.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Everyone's feelings a valid I want everyone to know this
is a valid and appreciated space where we all understand
that everybody's going through something. And right now Keisha's having
afroholespits withdrawals and we should all feel sympathy for her
because she's been in Europe for three weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
The last thing on the mom thing for move on
to Europe is I know I will be this person
because everyone in my life has done it.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
I know that I will have kids and I will.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Come to you and say I'm so sorry for everything
I ever did or said or didn't do. I know
because I see it happening everyone around me, my family members, cousins, friends,
and I know that I'm going to do it.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Question.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I have a question. It's been on my mind. I've
been trying to play it cool. I know everyone's probably
thinking about it. Did you drop the album on the
Romantic European holiday?

Speaker 3 (02:31):
You're payan holiday.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Did you drop the album on the Romantic rep European
Did you drop the album on the Romantic European holiday
with a new boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Before you answer that, I would like to just add
one thing. It's wild to me that you went on
a European holiday with a man who you haven't said
I love you too yet. That's cool, Like, I'm all
for it. I wish I had that sort of confidence
something I do. Nah, I love that, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
It was funny. We I met some of his really
close friends while we were over there. We stayed with
in London for a couple of days. We went to
the pub and she was she kind of got to me.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
She was like, I don't mean for this to.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Sound offensive, but I actually didn't know that you were
coming until yesterday. Like, I didn't know until I was
setting up the bed in the spare room that there
were going to be two people coming to visit, because
I hadn't heard of you. And I was like, oh, no,
that's understandable.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
That is not I haven't been around for that long
to know.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Hang on, it is not Normally you're going to someone's
house with your partner, you say, heads up, my partner's coming.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Well that is when she found out, was the day
before and he was like, hey, by.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
The way, she's coming along, do you think maybe old
Toblerown was like he was hatching his bets. He was
unsure if you were a sure thing until you're physically
in the country and in the taxi on the way.
So we gave her a call and he's like, actually,
just wanted to let you know that is two of us.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
It's because it was mid trip. He was like, she
might not make it mid trip. We might cut off
somewhere in near Mouthy. That's true.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
And we did have an argument in the airport on
the way there. So I was like, maybe I've actually
booked things.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
A little too in advance.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
We don't want to hear about the highlights of the trip, because,
to be honest, nobody cares about going to Europe and
someone else having a great time when they're at home
listening to this, or they're at work listening to this,
That's the last thing people.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Want to hear about. I want to hear about the fight.
What happened? Hey, can we talk? I asked a question
twenty minutes ago. Was there enough?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
We took a couple of segways? Was there an elbowm?
Yes or no?

Speaker 3 (04:27):
There was not? There was not not yet, narrator. You
hear the audible gasps, not yet, No, not yet. Ain't
you really that shocked by that? I am.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
It's only beaten three to a half months.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
If that three months, I averaged five weeks.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, you were in a really romantic setting. Sometimes that
gets the better of me. I just say it, and
I don't mean it, only.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Because it makes a good memory, right, Like you're in
the Mouthy Coast, You've got a wine, Like that's the
time you want it forever to have been. So I
would have said it taken the opportunity, and.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I'd have been like, I love you, but really I
meant I love being here in I'm mouth.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
And coast with that is a very fair point. There
were moments where I was like, I am having lots
of feelings right now, but are they just feelings of
like I haven't worked for twenty four hours.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Which is fucking nice.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
I'm really enjoying this cocktail and the sunsets gorgeous. I
think I've prematurely said it in the past, where I
probably haven't actually meant it. I've been a little bit
caught up in the moment and things have progressed very
quickly for us. Thus far, things are wonderful, things are
really really good. The trip was great, But I haven't

(05:33):
yet gotten to the point where I'm ready to say that.
And is it basically because I have fear that maybe
it wouldn't come back?

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yes, yes it is. Okay, Well that's your reason. What's
his reason? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I would just hope that when it does finally happen
and you do drop the album, you share it with
us and the rest of Australia at the same time.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
If you could live tweet it, I.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
Can live thread it now. That was something that happened
while I was on holidays.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Threats became a thing we're not talking about that and
sold NEWSCA. I was like ten days ago, but I
had it while I was away.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
Anyway, speaking of like, you know how you said no
one wants to hear about your lovey dovey apparol spritzsa,
which I only had a couple and I refrained from
posting them mostly for your sake.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
That's a lie.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
You sent them to me every time you had one.
I have so many photos of cash with apparol sprits
in hand.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Not even mad, not mad.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
I know.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I said I would be mad if people kept sending
them to me, but you all did it, and I
actually really enjoyed that everyone had such.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
A good time. Your DM's just full of apparol sprits.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's currently full of aperol spirits and people photoshopping things
into Danil's arm, which if you are on my social
media you will understand why that is fucking hilarious. Daniel
being my dance partner on Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
Actually I want to talk about dancing, but one thing
before the Yeah, okay, so we had two arguments on
our entire trip. One was on the flight over there,
so we stopped in at Doha on the way.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
We started strong, started strong.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Genuinely, I was sitting across the room where I was like, Wow,
this is gonna be a long two weeks potentially. But
we got over it, which kind of you kind of
have to when you've got a two week trip plant.
And then the other one was on the very last
night of our holiday.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
So we're in Majorca and it was this beautiful.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
It was actually the night that I sent you the
picture of me with an apparol spirits could only go
downhill from me. Well, I was kind of like half
tipsy on this fish bowl of apparol.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's when it happens. That's when you get half tipsy,
and then you're like, I feel like a fight coming.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
It's been too good.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
We were having this like lovely sunset and I'm not
gonna go into like the nitty gritty of the actual
argument because I still firmly believe that I am in the.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Right yea of cool.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
But he says I misinterpreted something he said, and what
ended up happening from wa to go is that I
kind of looked at him in my conflict style that
I learned from this podcast is the one where you
like get the fuck out of there, and don't say
a word because you know that if you do say something,
you're gonna regret it. So like I'm fully avoided in conflict.
And so I looked at him and I was like, Okay,

(07:53):
we have dinner plans at nine point thirty, which is
a reason to start an argument anyway, far too fucking.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Late to eat dinner, which is hungry.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
But we have dinner plans at nine point thirty, and
I will see you at dinner. I'm going to go
for a walk, and he took the key back to
the room and I was like, I will see you
at dinner. What then happened is that I was like
walking up the road and I got quite far because
we had like an hour in between our argument, and
when I was meant to meet him at dinner, I

(08:21):
was absolutely steaming. I was infuriated by this argument. And
I'm looking out at the most beautiful, majestic thing I've
ever seen, and I was like, this is just so sunny.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
How are there?

Speaker 4 (08:36):
How am I in this situation? It's my last night
in may Orca, and this is what I should be enjoying.
And I went to take a really lovely photo of
the sunset, which of course, is what you do when
you're absolutely esteeming from a fight.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
With you no, no, no, What you usually do is you
set up a tripod somewhere and film yourself crying and
then post on social media and ask people if they've
ever experienced the same thing that's.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Gett into my bikini and take those We all dealing
trauma differently.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
So I've taken out my phone to take this beautiful photo,
and as I've gone to take this photo, my hand
has kind of brushed past this car.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
And I didn't realize.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
But a wasp's nest was in the mirror door of
the car, and so all of these wasps came out
and this was flew into my hair, which was out,
so it got stuck in my hair in this beautiful
mayorcan breeze, and one of these fuckers stung me on
the wrist, on like the really bony part of your wrist,

(09:33):
you know, where it's really sensitive.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
I don't know what.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
They had, like, I don't know what steroids they've been
giving or like what cross program the wasps in Europe
have been on, but they have been doing heavy lifting
because those things are larger and stronger than anything I've.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Ever felt in my life. There's still one stuck in your.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
Hair, not stuck in my hair. But what did happen
was that my wrist got stung. And it was one
of those pains that, like, you know how usually you
get stung by something and it kind of like it
dissipates overtime, it.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Just gets worse and worse, and I washed things are
the worst, They're horrible.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Somehow I just kept doing getting worse, and it got
to the point where I was nearly in tears, and
I was really worked up, mostly because I'd had this
horrible argument, but I was also like, I don't have
the key to the room.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
He has the key in the argument. He got the
key in the argument.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
And so I had to put my tail between my legs.
And it had only been like seven minutes since I
I'm crying.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
It's worse.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
I didn't just storm home because I didn't know whether
he was back at the hotel or not, and so
I had to ring him and he was like hello,
like you know that tone I say, I've been stuck
by a loss, and he was like, Okay, what exactly
do you want me to do about that? And I
was like, I don't know, but I want you to
do something about it.

Speaker 6 (10:53):
Because it's he.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
And so I started my descent back down the hill
back to the hotel, which was like another twenty minute walk,
so it was quite a long walk, and by the
time I got back to the hotel, like magic, it's
like someone had you know how when a kid hurts
themselves and you say like I'm gonna kiss it better,
and it's meant to make it just completely go away.

(11:16):
It was as though someone had done that and my
wasp sting completely disappeared.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Oh, he thinks you faked an injury to come back.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
I was like, I'm being gaslit by a European wasp
right now, and now you faked your injury. Still, to
this moment, it's like you didn't get stung by wash.
You completely made this story up so that you could
come back and be like the victim and I had
to feel sorry for you and get your europin and
panicle n.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Today to hell.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
If he actually thinks that and you actually did that,
he just thinks you're a psycho, because.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's a fucking weird thing for someone to do.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Because the time between the fight and when I got stung.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
It was so short.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Could it just be that you're a bit dramatic, no,
highly emotional? What would give you that impression?

Speaker 4 (12:03):
What would give you the impression that any of us
on these podcasts are overly traumatic.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Sure, if that's the worst fight you guys had, I
think you're done pretty well well.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
We then continued part two of the fight back at
the hotel because I hadn't had my cool down time
I got stung by wasp. If anything, my anger elevated,
like there was more steam coming out of me because
I was so angry by this fucking wasp. But yeah,
heads up for anyone going to Europe, watch out for
the wasps.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
They watch out as fuckers everywhere.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
They're huge.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
They're so I don't know, I don't know what the
goalie is over there, but they're massive.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Okay, but wait, how did it resolve?

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Did you go at dinner and then have like a
testy little like you know, when there's negative energy in
the air and you have to sit across from each
other at dinner.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
It was the most.

Speaker 4 (12:41):
Awkward paela I've ever had in my life. Like we
sat across from each other and I had been crying
quite a lot half the wasp past because of the argument.
And you know when the waiter can kind of tell
that something's a little odd and there's already a language barrier,
like there was already.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
A Spanish bad energy, and then there's a heated pala
between you.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
It's too much. Yeah, yeah, you don't pronounce the l's.

Speaker 6 (13:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Moving on, and did you have great makeup sex? Is
that the only reason you have a fight, isn't it?
You have the fight for the set?

Speaker 3 (13:08):
I remember the po were so good that.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
I actually don't think we did because I mean, firstly,
I was mad because it was so late that we
were eating. I was angry, I was in pain, and
I was upset, and it just it was a terrible.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Ending to the holiday.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
But we did end up getting over it.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Well, we're glad you're back because it's been chaos for us.
We've had trouble. Every week, something has happened since you've
been gone. It hasn't been smoothsailing.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Are a new appreciation for me? Yes, we appreciate you
so much. We don't need a new appreciation for you.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
But what it's made us realize is that you know when,
for example, you're driving a car, You're the one driving,
and somebody else is doing maps.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
And how if someone's doing maps.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Even if you kind of know the way there, your
brain just totally switches off. You're like, I don't need
to use my brain for navigation because someone else is
giving me the direction. So then you stop being a
proactive participant in the navigating of the driving. That's how
my brain works. Anyway, that's what we've been doing with podcasting.
We literally walked in here and had to record ourselves
last week and we were like, how did we turn

(14:07):
the machine?

Speaker 7 (14:08):
Um?

Speaker 1 (14:08):
And I were like, how did we do this? For
two years on our own? Like you never have known
we did this. We were like, I think this cord
goes in here and.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
This one goes in here. Yeah, so we are fucking
thrilled that you were back. Well, thank you.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
I'm very glad that you found a new appreciation for
the maps.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Direction person.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
I'm actually terrible at directions, and Tobla Rowe would be
the first person very good.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
At podcasting though.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
All right, well, look I wanted to give you guys
a little bit of an update because.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Dancing, we're the stars, and that's not a thing that's
not the song.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
But dum du dun dump dump dun duh. Okay, So tonight,
which I mean, we're recording this on Monday. Tonight is
the semi final night. My semi final night. Last night
was Groupe. Tonight is Group B and your girl is
doing the charterer in very minimal plobing.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Like you went to dinner and then was like, I
don't have an outfit. I'll take this serviette and I'll
put that on.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
I look like more.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
I mean, I feel like I look more like what
I would wear if I was trying to seduce a
man after the dinner. Like that is less clothes than
I think my normal underwear is. It looks hot for briefs.
You look smoke show.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
I think you look like the emoji, you know, the
little dancing emoji in the little red.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Dress, the little yeah yeah, the Stusser emoji.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
Is that what it is?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
It's not a chutch. No, I'm doing a chutch. I
mean I know this because I'm a dancer. Now, Oh
my god, are you want dancing with the stars. You
guys might not have heard this, but I'm on Dancing
with the Stars. Look, this is the last thing going
to talk about it because, as you would know if
you watched last night episode, I got eliminated.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
No mirrorbll for me. Boo hiss.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
You did an amazing job, and of course you you
know we're going to say you were robbed.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
There was Shannon nol and then there's you in being
robbed for the trophy.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
To be fair, if you watched last night's chart, you
would disagree because it was particularly bad some touching go moments.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Do you know what happened?

Speaker 2 (15:57):
So I was standing in front of like the illumination
box and the very start of the routine was me
on my own and the music started, but I couldn't
hear the beat start, so I didn't hear when the
song actually started, so I was already off time from
the very very beginning. I was a very first dance
of the night and everyone, like all the audience was
it was very cute, it was very nice.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
I was like, yeah, scream louder, and then I was
just fans were so loud. I couldn't dance. The fans
stuck me from dancing. It's not my fault, it's your fault. Basically,
she's blaming you guys that she got.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Out, what a deflector Hey, No, there was two things
that was going on that night, Like, once I'd missed
the beat, I couldn't regain where I was at and
I was really in my head about it. But the
other thing that happened, And I feel a little bit
lame saying this now because it's one of those moments
where you look at yourself in hindsight and you're like, oh,
it really wasn't that bad. So the costume that I
was wearing was very very short. Every time I spun,

(16:48):
like my oss cheets for hanging out on the night,
I was so self conscious before going out and doing
the dance, I was in tears because I didn't want
to wear something that was that revealing, because that's it's
very not me. I haven't wonn a shorts girt since god,
before I had kids, you know, So for me, it
was like I just felt very exposed, and then doing
something that already felt completely out of my comfort zone

(17:08):
on national TV with not much clothes on.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
I got really in my head about it.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
And then after I finished the dance and I cocked
up the charter, I was into like a big loser.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Fair enough though, I mean, I think anyone you know,
I know that we've had all these like diet culture
messages put into our heads since the dawn of our existence.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
But I was.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Actually chocked that you didn't have those dancing leggings on,
because that's whenever you see anyone performing a concert or
I've seen other people on Dancing with the Stars. So
even though you might look like you're not covered, you
are still covered. But you were like free.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
I was free and out there do My legs were
raw dog and the reason for that was because they
didn't have any stockings where the crotch was high enough,
because they only had small and neat.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Because she's a praygnantis.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
They only had small and medium, and I needed a
pair of large ones because when I put them on,
the crutch was literally between my knees.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
I was trying to like it up, which is ridiculous
because it's a dance show.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, they didn't have they didn't have the right size
to me at the time, But do you know, for me,
it was a really good reminder.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
And I think we all do this at different phases
in life.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Like you might at the time feel really self conscious
and be really down about something that you don't like
about yourself. For me, so I get very self conscious
by the backs of my legs. So for me being
in a tiny skirt on national TV with nothing to
cover it, like, my anxieties around my own self image
was through the roof. But then I think a lot
of us have these moments where we look back on
photos of ourselves, or it might be that you judge

(18:32):
yourself when you're at a certain phase of life, and
then ten years later you look back on those photos
and you're like, God, I looked so good then. And
I kind of had that experience, but almost more immediately,
you know, I got the press photo stuff back and
I was like, gosh, I wish I was not so
in my head about it and was able to just
enjoy it and to really lean in and have fun
because I felt so self conscious. But it's never as
bad as you think it is, you know, And that

(18:54):
I think is a good lesson that we can all
hate at different times in our lives.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
It's such a normal thing.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Like I don't know one person that doesn't do that,
that doesn't hate themselves in one moment or wish they
look different, And then you look back and you're like
I was so hot, then like I look so great?
What was I worried about? But it's always the beauty
of hindsight at the time.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Also hate that I'm saying this now in terms of
that this was an insecurity of mine, because I know
that there'll be people who will look at those photos
and look at the video from last night and think
you looked great, Like what the fuck are you talking about?
And I wish I had had that sense of self.
I wish I had had that confidence to feel the
same about my body. And then it's so nice to
think about these things in retrospect and like really check

(19:34):
yourself and check like why do you have these insecurities?
And I know for me that that was probably one
of the biggest lessons I took out of the final dance. Yes,
I may have cocked out my charta. The world didn't
end because I had a bit of fucking cellulite on TV.
And the world didn't end because I felt a bit
self conscious. If anything, I feel like I've reached like
a new benchmark of being accepting with how I look.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
I want to add put me on National TV in
a piece of cloth that doesn't even cover my labia
like you were in. There isn't a in the world
that would go out there in that knowing that the
world's going to see them and not feel a bit like,
oh about how they look.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, I actually think.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
It's nice to hear you kind of be like, Look,
in hindsight, I wish I had have just been in
the moment more and enjoyed it more, because I think
that everyone in that situation. I also do think that
we only hear the opposite now, we only hear like
the no go and love yourself like. And the truth
is is that we still fight these battles internally about
our own self image, and so like hearing you kind

(20:26):
of be like, hey, look, this is actually something that
took away from the experience, and I've learned from it,
and I hope that if I was in that situation again,
I wouldn't have that insecurity and kind of that fear takeover.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
And be so self critical, which I think we can
all be at different times, you know, And I think
that there's so many times in life where if we
weren't so self critical, we would enjoy the moments that
were in so much more, whether it be being at
the beach, whether it be you know, fucking being on
national TV, which I know is a random one, but
there's so many things that we do in life where
that experience is clouded by how self critical we can be.

(21:00):
Me that was the final of the semi final. I
did not make the final.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
That was the semi final of Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
But I guess one thing though that was like a
real joy from it is I got to do my
soulsa if you watch it, I got to do my
elimination dance.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
I just I think because I so.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Royally screwed up the charger, I didn't care anymore. I
was like, do you know what, I'm just gonna go
out there and have fun and do exactly what I
said I wanted to do from the start. And it
was honestly like one of the best experiences I think
I've ever had in terms of my media such.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
It so just not the podcast or the We're very
proud of you and you did very well, and you
should be very proud of yourself, and all the life
is are very proud of you too.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Thanks Ky, if you want it, it would have been better,
but you did well.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, I didn't win I'm sorry I didn't bring home
the mirrorball, but.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Look at least I fucking did it.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
But you are looking in the mirror with a better lens,
so that's a real trophy.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
We have quite a serious episode for you today, but
before we get into that, there is something very unseerious
that I must talk to you about.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Bridge. I love that.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Please go forward. It's the heart and lows here. It's
all about covering the full spectrum.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Go forth with whatever debauchery you're about to bring.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Okay, I want your opinion on this. So there was Okay.
The project It posted this on their Instagram. It was
a story that they covered hard hitting news. There is
a couple that met on Hinge or on a dating app,
can't be sure which one. They exchanged a few text messages.
They were organizing to have their very first date, and
this is the exchange that went down. I hope you're
having a good date and I'm excited for tomorrow. I

(22:27):
can pick you up. If you're not comfortable with that, however,
we can just meet there. I don't know, but I'm
kind of feeling like getting some ice cream in this
hot weather. So this is from a guy who is.
I mean, he's trying to organize a date. You know,
it's more like it by the sounds of things, it's
more like a meat you know, they haven't really met
each other yet, they're looking forward to it.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
This is the effort of the date. Yep, this is
the reply.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Sorry if this comes across as rude, but I don't
do ice cream dates. I'm a twenty six year old
woman and a date like that seems like the absolute
bare minimum for me. Meeting up would be a waste
of both of our time since we probably don't have
this same vibe.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Best wishes, best wishes to you carry it's gonna be
a long and lonely life, ice cream free life.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, I know who doesn't like ice cream? That is
so funny to me. Did he write back? Is there
more to the exchange?

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Well, I don't have the rest of the exchange, but
what I did want to say is that overwhelmingly, in
the comment section this came off the back of a
Reddit thread, right overwhelmingly, people were saying, yes, don't expect
the bare minimum. We've been conditioned to expect the bare
minimum and relationships. These were some of the some of
the comments I don't think anyone should go on a
low effort date. If a man takes me on a
low effort, cheap date, he doesn't like me. The next

(23:35):
one was an ice cream date as a first date
in your thirties is fucking crazy. But I forgot people
who are okay with the bare minimum effort. I have
very different feelings about this, and I think that maybe
the way we feel is going to be that all never.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Underestimate a good vanilla waffle ice cream.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Okay, don't think it's about the ice cream. I think
you're missing the point bridge Sorry, sorry, who got sidetraction?

Speaker 1 (24:00):
This is actually so funny to me when you read
this out and I've just reread it or pulled it up.
I think this is a lovely, gentlemanly text message. I
actually would if somebody had written to me like that
and asked me out for an ice cream date, offer
to pick me up if I'm comfortable, but also if not,
that's okay.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
I would be like that sounds.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Absolutely great to the person that commented saying he obviously
doesn't like you, or like, if somebody likes me, they
can give me more than that spoiler, the guy doesn't
know you yet this is the initial meat. Like you
guys have obviously exchanged a few text messages online. I
think an ice cream date is absolutely perfect. I've always
been a big believer that the whole dinner date is
a no go for a first date because they're expensive.

(24:40):
You get stuck there, it could be disastrous. You might
want to escape. You can't expectations, I think on.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
That are too high.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
This could be a really cute date, and if you
go for ice cream, it's probably just the beginner. Like
you know, when you set a coffee date, right, you
always have an excuse or you know, let's get a
coffee and I probably have to go meet a friend later.
But if the date's going well, you're like, oh my
friend canceled, let's have lunch.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Oh the friends that get our jive free card, you're
just using them as backup.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yes, in case you need to have a fast and
speedy exit.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
But the same thing if you got if you met
this guy for an ice cream and you didn't like him,
at least you can leave quickly.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
If you do like you, you can go and do
doggie style. No one's going fuck. No opstibilities are endless,
from vanilla to missionary.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, Vanilla to vanilla, you can go and have lunch,
or if it's nighttime, you can have a drink. Like
I actually think, to be honest, that these sort of
responses are a bit of the problem. I think you're
leaning to you into the problem to why men are
probably putting their hands up sometimes. I don't think that
that this is that the low level. I think he
was quite polite.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
I would like to just put it out there that
I think dinner dates as a first date. And I
know you said it, Britt, but I'm so in this camp.
Are the worst fucking idea ever. There is nothing worse
than getting stuck and agreeing to do dinner with someone
who you thought you were gonna have great chemistry with,
who you thought were going to be a great date,
and then you get there and it's not even entree
and you're like, holy shit, but this is not what

(25:57):
I signed up for. This person do their best work
on Instagram or Tinder or wherever you're talking to that
I've done it multiple times, and then.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
You are stuck.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
An ice cream date is perfect because it's a little
bit less commitment than going for a drink, Because it
could be like an early afternoon but also a bit sensual.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
I don't want to say this woman is the problem,
because she's obviously not the problem. But I think we
all need to relax a little bit. And what would
have happened? Would it really have been that bad for
you to meet this guy for an ice cream date?
I don't understand. I actually don't understand where the problem
lies in this.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
Think if someone spends a whole lot of money on
your first date, you feel that obligation to like go
on a second one, even if you don't want to,
because you kind of like, I got to even the
score a little, like I've got to pay for something somehow,
you know, I don't. I don't think your presence is
a currency to play devil's advocate.

Speaker 7 (26:40):
Though.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
For ice cream girl spit it out?

Speaker 4 (26:44):
Is it setting the bar kind of low?

Speaker 7 (26:46):
You know?

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Ice cream is what seven dollars? And I think, like
financially that's okay because it's nice and cheap. But maybe
she kind of expected a little bit more of a
we could go for ice cream and we could go
for a walk. Maybe it's the effort that she thinks
that he's kind of cheapened out.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
On people get an ice cream, and they wander, they chat.
The ice cream is just the excuse to get to
know each other.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Okay, to play the Devil's advocate, and I will again
because I'm actually putting this on my most recent first date,
which ended up being my new boyfriend. We've been talking
on the phone for like an hour a night in
the week leading up to our first date. If he
had to turn around and being like, you want to
get ice cream? I would have been like, yeah, okay,
Like I wouldn't have gone on this big rant that
she did and sent this message being like, obviously we

(27:27):
don't have the same values. But it would have been
a bit disappointed because I would have been like I
kind of thought that there would be a little bit
more here, Like I thought they'd be a little bit
more to be excited about. Because how good can an
ice cream date be? I say the same thing about
coffee dates.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
How good?

Speaker 4 (27:43):
What is a ten out of ten? Obviously if you
get along with the person and you're chatting back and forth,
but like, you're not gonna have the.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Best time of your life. I disagree.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
The only thing I want to add to this and
playing Devil's advocate is that for me.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
It's Devil's advocate.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yes, it's very easy to read her response and be like,
oh my god, people would just take things so literally,
like that was such an extreme response to quite a
nice message and quite a nice gesture. Poor guys, they
can't do anything right, No one has a chance, blah
blah blah. To me, it screams that she has dated
people who are put in minimal effort. And I think
that that does exist. We've all dated people who have
put him literally no effort into the relationship, into the

(28:19):
dating scene, into anything, And so for me, it kind
of screams as though potentially she has decided and she's
set this standard for herself where she's only going to
date people who she feels are putting in an X
amount of level of effort. And that's because she's been
burnt in the past, and so she's venting her frustrations
through this and somehow it's made on the project, has
made on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well, the only person this is the problem, right, The
only person that loses out in this situation is her.
He could have been a really great guy and she
won't know. He could have been a data as well. Again,
she's not gonna know. We do not know the exchange
that happened before that. We've seen him ask her out
and we've seen her response. Do I think her response
was warranted?

Speaker 3 (28:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
My advice in that situation would have been, like, what's
the worst that could happen? Go meet the guy. He
could be the funniest, he could be so great. You
could have the best date of your life because you
don't know what's going to happen after that. If you
guys gel over the ice cream, it's literally the stepping
stone to something else.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
It'd be different if he goes OI, what's up in
twenty minutes? Want to hang get an ice cream?

Speaker 7 (29:19):
Maybe?

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Or like you want to get some streets delivered on
Newberts to the home?

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Different? That's different. Okay, So what is the bar? Where
does it sit?

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Let's like rule this and definitively what is the bar
for the lowest expectation that one would have on a
very first date. For me, I think it would have
been getting a coffee, walking dates a fine Definitely did it.
Definitely did a few park dates, but they will only
the very first meat to suss out whether I liked
a person. If I liked a person and then they
were like, let's go on another walking date.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I'd be like, friend zoned. You are friend zoning me fast.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
I have benchmarks based off of how much contact we've
had beforehand. So if it's a really quick exchange here
and there, I'd be like, let's go for a drink.
But if we've been talking, like you know, if your
schedules don't line up, and maybe been talking for a week,
maybe you've had some phone calls, maybe you've kind of
laid that groundwork, I would kind of expect.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
A little bit more dinner.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
No, not necessarily dinner, but like maybe like a maybe
let's go for a drink and you know, grab some
nibbles or something like do you know what I mean?
It doesn't have to be like a whole dinner, but
I think it depends on how much contact you've had.
And by the sounds of it, this guy didn't have
that much contact with her beforehand, so I want.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
To make it we're assuming we have no idea how
much they could have been texting for three years.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
And that's why she says, it's not my fucking effort.
It's a long relationship for seventeen years. We don't know,
we don't know, we're going off to text, right, don't
have a kid?

Speaker 6 (30:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (30:39):
For me, it depends on like how much communication you've had.
I don't think there's a hard and fast rule of
where the bar is. I think it depends on how
much effort I've put into the lead up to the date.
And I think one and rule that I did make
for myself up until very recently was that I wasn't
going to go on a date with someone unless I'd
had a conversation on the phone with them, because I
was like, it takes time, and I am I'm poor

(31:00):
right now, and so I don't want to get to
the first meeting and be like, Wow, you can't do
anything other than text.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
But here you go.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
You just said you're time poor, but you want a
twenty five course dinner on your first date. I think
the ice cream date is the perfect first date. What
you said, Laura is where I feel like I would
be for like when you're like, what is the bottom
lowest amount of effort you put in for me? I
think the first date, I want to say is almost
anything goes in terms of it's about you guys meeting
up to see if there is any form of connection,

(31:29):
because I have been in that position many times where
I've been like, this is my soulmate on text, They're
so funny, so witty, so great, so communicative, so everything,
and then you meet up in real life and they
can't string a sentence together. There's no chemistry, there's no connection.
Like I have done that far too many times. I mean,
I would love to know what is what are the
disaster dates you've been on? What has been the lowest
form of effort that someone has put in to attender date?

(31:50):
And I guess, like, I'm going back to this thing.
I keep thinking the reason why this woman has put
these boundaries and set these standards for herself is because
I'm sure she has experienced some horrifically low effort dates.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
If you have been the bearer of a.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Horrifically low effort date, I want to know what's your
disaster stories? Like slid into the DM's laugh on cut podcast,
as I would absolutely love to know.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Okay, well on that we're gonna move on to something
a little bit funnier. It is accidentally unfiltered, and I
had one that had me absolutely cackling. Now it only
had me cackling after I did some googling. Ladies, this
literally just happened to me. I live behind my parents' house,
which is a brand new house that they have just built,
and I'm renting it from them. Sometimes my mom and

(32:29):
dad bring people over to see the place to, you know,
sort of show off then you build. My dad just
brought his best friend over to look, and I was
unpacking the dishwasher. I realized I fucking froze. They walked
into my bedroom and my anal douche was sitting smack
BEng on the floor of my bathroom. They walked in,
turned around quick smart and said, oh, I forgot something

(32:52):
in the house, gotta go. Now.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Do you know what an anal douche looks like?

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Laura, I don't know what it looks like, but I
know what it is obviously.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
But I don't think I would.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
I don't think I would recognize what it is if
I saw it sitting in a bathroom. Is it?

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Oh yeah, I would. I would think that goes in
an ass. I didn't know what looks like.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Obviously, I do not use it. She said, she's just
got into butt play. She had a big anal douche,
and she left it smacking in the middle, and her
and her dad's best friend walked straight in to look
at that way.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
If I saw that sitting on the floor, though, I
don't think I would assume that was an anal douche.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I don't think I would know what it was, like
a little water in can Oh it sort of looks
like a water.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
But you know what, if your dad's friends into butt player,
he knows exactly what that is.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
I reckon, O, Papa knows exactly what. I'm sorry. Even
if you okay, okay, all right, right right, back it
up a bit.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Just because you've built a house, if you have your
grown up children living with you, it doesn't mean that
the entire house is fair game. You can't just parade
them around like the on sweet bathroom and your daughter's
bedroom and show them all the things like some privacy
is demanded.

Speaker 7 (33:52):
Well, no, I reckon.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
She knew. I reckon. He's like, is it all right
if I pop back? And it's not. She's realized when
they've walked in. That's what I reckon. I reckon. She's like, yeah,
pop back, and she's like, I doosed last night. That's
what I reckon?

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, I hope you had fun and a good bit
of Ani play. Wow and time to move out a home?
Don't live home anymore?

Speaker 6 (34:11):
All right?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Well, look we do have quite a serious episode for
you today. This is an episode that Britt and I
both feel really proud about, and it is a topic
that we both personally feel very attached to and something
that has been a reoccurring conversation throughout the whole of
life Uncut, and that's about intimate partner violence, domestic violence
and also violence against women. Now the reason and I

(34:34):
think that they couldn't be a more relevant time to
have these conversations. And every week, everyday people experience of
intimate partner violence. But just recently there was an Adelaide
woman who was shot dead and her daughter was critically injured,
Alexandra and Daniella by Alexandra's husband. This happens, not this
exact case, but this type of violence happens all the

(34:56):
time across Australia.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Horrific. It is horrific.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
And the reason why we wanted to have this conversation
on today's episode is because I think so often people
can assume that domestic violence is always physical or that
there are physical scigns throughout a relationship before something quite
horrendous happens, and often it is not physical throughout the
duration of the relationship. There are many types of domestic

(35:21):
violence that are not actually physical, non physical forms, and
we wanted to talk about what those look like. We
also wanted to talk today about what are the signs
you know you may not be in a relationship, you
may never experience physical violence or even not in physical
violence from a partner, but what are the signs for
the people in your life that your friends, your family members,

(35:42):
that maybe they are in a relationship that's dangerous or
they are the ones that are needing protection. What do
you do if you suspect that your friend or somebody
in your life is in a toxic relationship?

Speaker 3 (35:52):
How do you support them?

Speaker 2 (35:53):
How do you make them aware that the behaviors of
their partner is not okay? And do it in a
way that doesn't isolate them further and separate you from
being able to be there to support them.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
So joining us on the podcast today is Emily Maguire. Now.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Emily is the CEO of Respect Victoria. She is an
expert in all things family violence, violence against women, gender equality.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
She's truly amazing.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
She co hosts a podcast called There's No Place Like Home,
which she co hosts with Throng Chuvler, whose sister Niki
was actually murdered by her partner back in twenty fifteen.
When Laura was mentioning before that we're going to be
touching on a lot of things like non physical domestic violence,
which often leads to physical domestic violence. We're talking about
things like financial abuse, tech, surveillance, blame shifting. There are

(36:40):
a whole bunch of things that a lot of people
Laura and myself included when we were having this discussion.
You don't register as a form of domestic violence because
you always go in your brain straight to physicality. Of course,
in my head there's forms of course of control and manipulation.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
I'm aware of those, but there.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Was a whole other level where I thought, do you
know what, I've had these things happen to me, and
I've never registered it as domestic violence.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
So I think it's a really important discussion.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, And I think the other part of this is
that for people who are experiencing non physical forms of
domestic violence, it is so hard for them to prove it.
It is so hard for them to actually have the
people in their lives or have authorities believe what they
are experiencing because it can be such an insidious form
of manipulation, It can be such an insidious form of
harming someone, of controlling them. And just to give you

(37:27):
a little bit of an understanding, one in every four
women and one in thirteen men have experienced partner violence.
On average, one woman every nine days and one man
every month is killed by a current or former partner
within Australia. So like, the statistics are unbelievable, and we
know that this is even greater than this because domestic
violence goes so hugely underreported because it is still such

(37:49):
a shameful thing that happens within families and is often
seen as a very private and I say private quote
unquote because people don't want to share it.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
People feel shameful.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
It's also loaded with the fact that often there's still
a lot of love for the partner who is doing
this to the person and the victim. But it's such
an important conversation and we really hope that everybody listens
to this because it'll give you the tools to help
support those around you.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Emily, Welcome to Lack un Cut.

Speaker 7 (38:14):
Thanks for having me. Emily.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Can you tell us a little bit about Respect Victoria
and what sets it apart and why it's different.

Speaker 6 (38:20):
So we're really lucky in Victoria in that we've had
a really long history of bleeding work around both preventing
and responding to violence against women and family violence. And
we had a role commissioned a couple of years ago
that really gave government a lot of recommendations for how
to really get the system to be working a bit better,
and one of the recommendations was that we needed to
focus much more strongly on prevention. Responding to violence after

(38:43):
it's happened is absolutely critical, but you're never going to
kind of turn off the tack, as we call it,
unless you've been violanced from happening in the first place.
And so four years ago Respect Victoria were set up
and we're the only entity in the state who's got
to focus solely on preventing both family violence and violence
agains women. It's a real game chain and we actually
don't have organizations like this in most other jurisdictions, let

(39:03):
alone globally, so we're sort of hoping over the course
of our long history, which will become long history in
the future, that we're actually going to be able to
really start to see cultural change and drive down those
traits of violence as a result of the work and
a lot of other people's as well, there is.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I mean, we just read out some pretty alarming statistics,
But something that I know is very widely spoken about
is how underreported domestic violence is and how underreported things
like courercive control are. Is there any way of knowing
just how prevalent it is in society.

Speaker 7 (39:33):
We use the.

Speaker 6 (39:34):
Personal Safety Survey as the kind of measure of prevalence.
So what we often talk about is report rates and violence,
which is what basically goes to the police. But the
Personal Safety Survey is a survey that's conducted every four years,
and it asks questions around safety generally, but ask them
in a way. It doesn't say, have you experienced violence

(39:54):
or has your partner but hit you. It doesn't ask
only those questions. It ask questions in a broad enough
way that people can answer yes, and then that's grouped
into experiences of violence. So the Personal Safety Survey is
the kind of best sort of data that we've got
What we also do know, however, and I think one
of the things we're going to talk about today is that
violence is really hard to recognize at times. Physical violence, no,

(40:14):
but coercion and control and gas lighting and financial abuse,
those sort of much more subtle forms of views, which
are actually much more common the physical violence, are the
ones that are really hard to recognize. We know that
around about sixty percent of experiences of violence a family
violence aren't reported to police, so we know that what
the kind of those official stats show is really just

(40:35):
the tipicy iceberg.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
And what does that in terms of this survey, What
does that prevalence show you when you say sixty percent
of people who have experienced it as a number for
people to kind of get a grasp of that, what
does that look like.

Speaker 6 (40:46):
I'm not enough of a statistician to be able to
answer that question that what I can tell you is
it's one in for women have experienced violence from an
intimate partner since the age of fifteen. So someone's smart
at me, we'll be able to do the maths in
terms of calculating how many literally millions and millions of
people have at least experienced violence once and what we
know is that you very rarely experienced.

Speaker 7 (41:06):
Violence only once.

Speaker 6 (41:07):
It's often a number of occasions, often from another of
different partners, over a lifetime.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
We have spoken quite a few times over the years
on domestic violence on the podcast, discussions with experts like yourself,
people that have been in the situation, and the spectrum
of the discussion we've had is very broad, from coercive
control up to speaking to a woman whose sister was
murdered by a partner. But what are some of the
non violent forms of domestic violence that we should be

(41:33):
looking out for.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
We should probably know a little bit more about.

Speaker 6 (41:35):
The one thing I would say to people is that
we've got this really skewed view in this country around
what violence looks like. More people than ever are recognizing
that violence goes beyond physical and we're having conversations about
coercion and control, but we've still got a long way
to go to even see those things as part of
what is legally defined as family violence in this country.

Speaker 7 (41:55):
Physical violence is.

Speaker 6 (41:56):
Not the only kind of abuse, so most violence against
women actually begins with non physical forms of violence. And
one of the things that has struck me in my
work is that I remember someone who worked in the
response space saying to me that are victims of art
resent to them, Oh, I just wish he'd hit me
because then I have a bruise and.

Speaker 7 (42:12):
Then I could go and show someone.

Speaker 6 (42:14):
So it's such an insidious form of violence that's often
and we don't believe victims of virus, so we often
really need to see tangible.

Speaker 7 (42:21):
Proof that they've experienced violence.

Speaker 6 (42:23):
So some of the sort of non physical forms of violence,
you know, kind of repeated constant put downs, fat shaming,
telling you what to wear, trying to isolate you from
your friends and family, not letting you practice your cultural
or religious or spiritual beliefs, and manipulating you to make
you do things that they want to do, forcing you
to have sex, sending naked images, taking images without your consent.

Speaker 7 (42:47):
There's such a spectrum.

Speaker 6 (42:48):
And obviously financial abuse is a really particular form of
violence and financial control in particular that many many women
experience in this country.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
When you say things like fat shaming and putting you down,
and I guess forms are bullying, how do you differentiate
from someone just being a fuck with and like a wanker.

Speaker 6 (43:06):
So the question for me, I think is, you know,
if your partner's just a bit of a shit guy,
or he's being abusive towards you.

Speaker 7 (43:12):
Neither of those things are okay.

Speaker 6 (43:13):
So if someone's experiencing either of those two things, I
would be saying leave the relationship, because he ain't going
to get any better.

Speaker 7 (43:19):
The difference for me, in terms of how you tell
if someone's just having a bad day and being a.

Speaker 6 (43:23):
Bit of a dick as a one off as opposed
to is really trying to control you, is about how
they respond when you call them out or you know,
everyone says such things when they're frustrated or when they
don't have the sort of emotional capability or ability to
be able to kind of communicate what's going on for them.
But they often recognize that and they come back and
they say sorry, or they apologize, or they recognize that
it's had an impact on you, and they don't do

(43:45):
it again. The feature of coercive control and non physical
forms of violence is that it's repeated. It's very unlikely
just to be all he does is fat shame you.
He'll fat chame you, but he'll also do a whole
bunch of other things that are really designed to make
you feel rubbish, So I think early on in relationships
that sort of if you want to put them in

(44:06):
just a little bit shitty category as opposed to inin
the violent category, the thing you could do is say
I don't like what you talked to me like that,
and see what he does. If he gets like to you,
if he has a crack, if he gets aggressive, if
he gets hiribly defensive, if he does anything bar or sorry,
I didn't mean to or I was having a bad day,
I won't to do it again, then that is enough
of a warning side for you to need to watch
his behavior to see if it is going to escalate.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
What is the motivator for this type of behavior when
it's non physical violence and it's dictated by words, it's
dictated by control. Is it the control of not wanting
that person to leave the relationship? Is it the wanting
to have control over their physical being?

Speaker 7 (44:42):
Like?

Speaker 2 (44:42):
What is typically the motivator of somebody who is the
perpetrator in these instances?

Speaker 7 (44:47):
Broadly control is the motivator.

Speaker 6 (44:49):
It's I want to have power over you in whatever
way is going to make you feel as small and
as inconsequential as you can. So if isolating you from
your friends is going have the biggest impact that that's
the thing that I'm going to focus on.

Speaker 7 (45:02):
If giving you.

Speaker 6 (45:03):
An allowance and saying you're only allowed has been one
hundred dollars a supermarket and tracking what you do and
tracking your bank account is going to make you feel
the most afraid, then that's what I'm going to do.
It's often trying to exert control in any sphere of
the relationship, because what happens often is that, particularly with
longer term violent relationships where there's been a real feature
of colorsion and control, is that often you can get to.

Speaker 7 (45:25):
The point where she doesn't even try.

Speaker 6 (45:28):
She knows what the rules are, and she operates within
those boundaries because she's so terrified to step out of them,
not because necessarily she's going to be physically hurt, but
because she knows things are going to get worse for her,
or for her kids, or for her friends and family,
or the pepetrainer is going to start calling her workplace
and people will find out. So often the purpose of
the control is to manage everything about the person so

(45:48):
much so that you ultimately almost don't even need to
manage them because they sort of kind of are so
far under your fund for one of a better term.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
One thing we've seen the last week, we were just
discussing it. I don't know if you saw all the
things around Jonah Hill and the text messages that have
come out. How worrying are these warning signs?

Speaker 6 (46:05):
They are really worrying, And I think it's really hard
for us to take them seriously. Sometimes as women who
experience those things, is hard to take it seriously because
you think you're over reacting. But that woman in particular
is a really good example of those messages from Jonah
Hill made my skin crawl, the ones that he was
allegedly sending in the particular bit for me, that was
really concerning about the messages that he allegedly sent. It

(46:27):
wasn't I'm telling you to do this, because that would
be seen as much more problematic, right, It's that these
are my boundaries. You kind of co opting therapeutic terms
and saying these are my boundaries. If you choose not
to do all the things I'm telling you to do,
therefore you're violating my battery.

Speaker 7 (46:43):
So all of a sudden, he's flipping. It's an incredibly
smart tactic and it's one.

Speaker 6 (46:47):
That perpetrators do use. And this is prime example both
of control and of gas lighting. And that's what I
think a lot of men in the comments are receiving
and hearing he's talking about, if you act in this way,
you are violating my trust. Well, that seems like a
reasonable thing to say, right, It's not, because what he's
trying to do is say you will act in accordance
with these boundaries that I'm putting on your behavior.

Speaker 7 (47:08):
Boundaries are about your own.

Speaker 6 (47:10):
Personal things that you are willing to accept or not.
His boundary would be he leaves a relationship, but it
is not to say who she can be friends with,
or what she can post or what she can wear.
There are so many genders areo types that are playing
into this, like why would you want to we're a
bikini in post to fat a bikini? You know what's
wrong with your self esteem? All of that sort of stuff,
instead of actually just being a woman who's wearing bathers

(47:31):
and having a surf, which is I think what she was.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Doing, Like, your point is so good, He has done
it so well, so intelligently. How are you supposed to
differentiate Because he used all the buzzwords right, he said
the boundaries, and he said respect and this is.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
What I need.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
And how do you differentiate from well, he has just
said his boundaries. He said that he did it so
politely and actual manipulation, and it almost been an ultimatum.

Speaker 7 (47:54):
Someone else's boundaries is never going to be telling you
what to do.

Speaker 6 (47:57):
So whenever anyone is saying I don't want you to
do this because it has this impact on me, or
I don't.

Speaker 7 (48:04):
Want you to do this, particularly if the things that
they're telling you.

Speaker 6 (48:06):
Not to do with things that are positioning you as
kind of problematic or as what is basically doing is
saying that she's a little bit of a slush as well,
and she's a little bit wild, and she's a little
bit chaotic. I think it's really hard to take some
of those things seriously because they're so ubiquitous, they're so
part of our everyday life.

Speaker 7 (48:24):
But the cardinal rule.

Speaker 6 (48:25):
For me is that if someone is telling you what
to do or trying to tell you what to wear,
how to speak, who to spend your time with, then
that in and of itself is a red flag, does
not matter how supportively they frame it.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Can you talk to me a little bit about what
financial abuse can look like in a relationship and how
that can start as a way of manipulating a partner.

Speaker 7 (48:46):
So financial abuse is a really tricky one because you know,
we're kind of all living in this soup of gender
equality where there're stereotypes everywhere, and so many people think
that men should be heads of the household on and
should be bred when as therefore the money and they
should have control over it, and they should be able
to spend their money how they want to, and their
partners should engage with the kind of how the Dolls

(49:07):
has been in a really different way. Financial abuse is
hard to recognize as well, because it's often really subtle.
So if any of your listeners think about their own life,
if they're in a heterosexual relationship, how many times have
their partners made a joke abou how much money they
spend our clothes, for example. It's a really common thing,
and it reinforces that stereotype that you know, women are

(49:27):
a bit ditsy and all you do is spend money
on frivolous things. So kind of common jokes around what
you spend your money on, tracking what you spend your
money on, but kind of some of the warning sciences.
You know, partners wanting to set up joint bank accounts
and joint access to shared money, even if it's their
money as well. Really early encouraging you to work less
and saying, oh, I can support you, I'll look after you.

Speaker 6 (49:49):
I want you to be happy and healthy, and or
I want you to stay at home and look after
the kids, and it's my job to earn the money.
If they suggest that you curb you're spending or spend
less money on hobbies, right through to being forced to
account for what money you have spent on children's clothes,
on tool fees at the supermarket, on going to the
headrestler or the doctor.

Speaker 7 (50:08):
Or the pharmacy. There's a really really broad spectrum.

Speaker 6 (50:12):
One of the really cool things I think we're seeing
at the moment, though, is that banks are really coming
out strongly against this. Some of the big corporate banks
have been looking for the last probably five or six
years at trying to get better at identifying coercion and
control through finances, and one of the things that they're
doing at the moment is now saying I think it
was just nab in commonwealth banks saying that if someone

(50:34):
who uses their banks is identified as committing financial abuse,
then their account may be terminated or access maybe suspended.
So they're taking a really really hard line to try
and manage the financial abuse that absolutely does happen.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Emily, you mentioned something before, you said that sometimes a
warning sign could be your partner wanting to open up
a joint bank account earlier than what maybe seems like
a normal step.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Or progression in the relationship.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
I would think that a lot of people might see
that as their partner being like really in like, oh,
they've really invested in me and our relationship because they
want us to do this thing together, which is a
huge step kind of in a committed relationship to open
up that bank account. How does one figure out whether
it comes from a place of good intention or from
a place of manipulation.

Speaker 6 (51:17):
I think asking questions and having a conversation. So the
question for me is, you know, just having a conversation
of why you want to have a joint bank account.

Speaker 7 (51:25):
You like what that is?

Speaker 6 (51:26):
Having an open discussion about how you both spend your money,
how you both save your money, what you're saving towards.

Speaker 7 (51:31):
Are you saving for separate things or you're saving for
shared things?

Speaker 6 (51:33):
What you like to be able to do and then
kind of setting up I suppose mechanisms for how you're
going to.

Speaker 7 (51:38):
Navigate the joint bank account.

Speaker 6 (51:40):
When I say early, I mean you know, in the
first year or two of a relationship, that's pretty early
to be combining all of your finances into the one
and it can get women into incredibly tricky places, really
really fast. The other thing that I would do as
a bit of a test is often if your partner
is saying to you, would you you know kind of
one who I'm really invested in this. I want us

(52:00):
to share everything. Let's share our finances. If you say
to them, yeah, okay, but I want to keep my
own bank account, and see how he responds to that.
So you can do some of those things that are
just sort of just a little bit of pushback, and
you can see if his responses, well, that sounds evidently
said to me, want me to do the same thing,
you know you could be much probably more comfortable in
setting up a joint bank account than if he gets

(52:22):
defensive or frustrated or says, why do you want to
do that?

Speaker 2 (52:24):
What does it look like for people to say you
have a relationship where one person earns infinitely more money,
well not infinitely, I'm sure there's a ceiling to it,
but earns a lot more money than the other person.
And I asked this because when I was in my twenties,
I was in a relationship and I definitely don't think
it was financially abusive, but we were living to his means,
which meant that he was very comfortable because he saw

(52:44):
shared financial responsibility as splitting things fifty to fifty to
the dollar. But that meant that he was left with
expendable cash that he had and I couldn't afford rent
every week. And that was how we showed up in
the relationship, and that ultimately is the reason why the
relationship ended was because of the.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Frustration around money.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
How does one navigate that situation without it becoming controlling.

Speaker 6 (53:06):
It's such a good question, and it's so true because
there's two different dynamics of player, right depending on if
the person who's earning money is earning more money and
the relationship is a male or a female. Often, often
when women in relationships in Henter six relationships earn more money,
it's actually a risk factor for them experiencing violence because
that earning of money is challenging that male breadwinner stereotype,

(53:28):
and there's research that suggests that can increase violence, usually
already in relationships that are already be violent. I think
in the example that you're talking about, for me, I mean,
all of this really comes down to communication, which is
a really annoying answer I suspect for your listeners, because
in order to figure out if something is problematic or not,
I always say to people, you've kind of got to
trust your gut. If there's something just a little even

(53:50):
if it's just a little twins or a little tweak,
or there's something just a little bit off, that is
the thing that you need to feed and understand and
figure out why you're feeling a little bit off about it.
For me, in your kind of context, if other people
who are listening are experiencing something similar, the question would be,
So if you had that conversation with your partner and said, oh, hey,
I can't afford that, or I don't want to do that,

(54:10):
or hey, I feel like we're always living within your means,
can we try and do something that's a little bit
different or you know, seeing how that conversation goes and
how he reacts to it is probably the thing that
is going to tell.

Speaker 7 (54:21):
You whether or not. I know.

Speaker 6 (54:22):
It's a really frustrating answer for some people because it's
really it's a hard thing to do to trust your
gut as women, I think, and particularly when we're all
bombarded with all these things about how we should and
shouldn't be and men get bombarded with exactly the same
things as well. It's really hard to know where you're
reacting to it, you know, a stereotype because you think
you have to engage in a particular way, and where
you're actually just having a relationship that's okay with you.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Let's move on to tech surveillance. Can you describe what
tech surveillance is?

Speaker 7 (54:50):
Sure, so tech surveillance is terrifyingly common in Australia. Might not.

Speaker 6 (54:54):
Study from last year found that one in two Australians
had experienced some sort of tech abuse. So it can
be anything really involving technology. So it might be kind
of location tracking right through to kind of sharing of
images without consent. It can be you know, the stuff
that you see a lot of written about at the moment,
in terms of deep fakes or kind of photoshop stuff

(55:15):
being shared around Tech facilitated violence is also things like
bombing you literally with text messages and sending those sorts
of things, because the unique feature of tech facilitated violence
is that it's indoscapable, because we all carry our technology
with us on a daily basis. It used to be
that if you were in a violent relationship with you
left that violent relationship, you could be not always but

(55:35):
much more confident that.

Speaker 7 (55:37):
The violence and the control was done.

Speaker 6 (55:39):
Now everyone's on socials, everyone's got a phone, everyone's got laptops,
it feels, I think for a lot of people who
are living with violence almost inescapable.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I mean, I think the scary thing with that as
well is that there's so many ways in which someone
can keep track of what you're doing without you being
even aware of it.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Someone very close to me.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
They were in a relationship and their partner had put
a key logger onto their comput which meant that they
then had access to all of the passwords. Basically, they
had uploaded and installed a keylogger, so they had access
to all their emails and were able to track all
the conversations that they were having with people. And that
was a way for them to have control and He
framed it at the time as though he didn't trust
what she was doing and he wanted visibility because he

(56:19):
didn't believe the things that she was saying to him.
And it was such a frightening conversation because he could
not accept that what he was doing was so intrusive,
and he felt like he had some almost right over visibility.
And obviously that relationship broke down and they're no longer
together anymore. But it was really frightening and very very
isolating how much access he had without her being aware

(56:39):
of it at all.

Speaker 7 (56:39):
It's absolutely terrifying.

Speaker 6 (56:41):
And I think that point that you're making about he
feels so entitled to know what's going on that he
can't even see anything wrong with his behavior is where
that communication just is completely ineffective. He feels like he's
entitled to have control and access to every aspect of,
you know, his ex partner's life, and therefore there's no
changing his mind.

Speaker 7 (56:58):
I mean, there are things that you could do to.

Speaker 6 (56:59):
Sort of check your phone and your computer to make
sure that that sort of stuff doesn't happen, and I
think the E Safety Commissioner is working really really hard
to get information out there it's not the most successible
place to get information, I think for it, particularly for
a lot of young people, you don't want to go
to a kind of a government entity. But actually they've
got the most up to date advice and guidance around
how to cover yourself with your devices. For me, the

(57:20):
thing that's really interesting about the story that you're telling
is that he didn't think.

Speaker 7 (57:25):
That there was anything wrong with it.

Speaker 6 (57:26):
And I think it's a really common argument of I
don't trust you. You've given me reason not to trust you,
whether or not they have, so therefore I don't trust you.
And if you had something to hide, you wouldn't care
that I was checking your phone, you wouldn't care that
I was checking your computer. So you clearly have something
to hide, and so you get in your I think
you get in your head and you think, well, maybe
I do have something about why I shouldn't hide anything

(57:47):
from him.

Speaker 7 (57:47):
And it's not about hiding. It's about you're entitled a
right to.

Speaker 6 (57:50):
Privacy, including from your partner, whether that's you don't want
to share money, whether that's you don't want to sign
a joint lease, or you don't want to share images
with them, or you don't want to have things recorded,
or you don't want to show them your emails or
your phone or your search history. All of those things
are fine. It doesn't mean that you're doing something dodgy.
It means that you're comfortably kind of standing up for yourself.
And having that kind of right to privacy is really

(58:11):
paramounting in your relationship because one of the factors of
a good relationship for me, I think, is that, yeah,
you can be together, and you can be a unit
when you're together, but you can also be separate units
as well, and you're still maintaining that level of independence.
It's one of the things that we know drives violence
scapes women is when women's independence is kind of marginalized
or sort of put to a side, and so really

(58:32):
encouraging people to be in and of themselves just as
an individual person is really really important.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
That's funny because I guess my situation was different. It
was two years, but he knew he was doing the
wrong thing. It wasn't a conversation where it's like I'm
entitled to this. You know.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
I would go into my emails and this is how
I ended up discovering it.

Speaker 7 (58:49):
There would be people that were.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Blocked in my emails, people blocked in my social media,
people that I didn't even know of from obviously in
his life, that he would go in and block just
in case they decided to reach out to me. The
messages would never come, and I never until probably the
last probably until a year ago, maybe two years ago,
when we started actually talking on the podcast a lot
about domestic violence. I never would have said I was

(59:12):
in a relationship.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
With domestic violence.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I one hundred percent was like the control, making me
delete my social media, telling me what I could post,
the surveillance on my computer. He logged all my like
all my passwords. I kept trying to change them. Somehow
he'd find a way, and I didn't really understand it
then because no one was speaking about it. I was like,
I don't understand how I keep changing my passwords and
he keeps figuring it out. And it took like military security,

(59:35):
somebody that I knew through, somebody that helped me on
my computer, and be like, oh, he's been in everything
for a long time.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
But I think that this is the thing that Emily
was saying, and it goes back to this idea that
it's because of our understanding of what violence is.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
It's out.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
It's sort of like traditional mindset around what frames domestic
violence and what frames control in a relationship and if
it isn't physical. For a very long time, it hasn't
been deemed as being as important or as significant. But
I do think that those views are definitely changing.

Speaker 7 (01:00:04):
Yeah, I think so. I mean, look, first of all,
I'm sorry you had that experience.

Speaker 6 (01:00:07):
It's just awful, and it's so representative of so many
women's experiences out there that it's really hard to tell.

Speaker 7 (01:00:14):
U's hard to tell for two reasons.

Speaker 6 (01:00:16):
One because we don't talk about it, which I think
is why it's really good that we talk about red flags.
And you know, I often don't spend my time talking
about family violence or domestic violence. Particularly in forums like this.
You talk about red flags. You talk about shitty behavior,
and shitty behavior is enough for it to be a
red flag that could potentially either already be family violence
or or escalated to something like that.

Speaker 7 (01:00:37):
But I think it's also those things happen because you know,
I don't know about your experience, but who you talk to.

Speaker 6 (01:00:42):
But often we talk to our peers, we talk to
our friends, and we talk to our family, and so
often they downplay it or they say, well, that's a
bit off, but it's probably just jealous or what if
you got.

Speaker 7 (01:00:52):
Tied or did you push him or any of those
sorts of things.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Take it as a compliment. They love you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
He loves you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Actually, he just wants to know where you are all
the time, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:01:01):
Yeah, yeah, And that kind of jealousy and control and
even stalking actually as a sign of love is so
deeply wired into our brains because of anything you watch.

Speaker 7 (01:01:11):
It doesn't matter what genre of TV or threem or
movies you watch.

Speaker 6 (01:01:15):
We get pummeled with those messages on a regular basis.
And it's really really hard to reframe our thinking and
see jalousy as jealousy is one of the factors that
is most present in lethal violence. It's a red flag
for a lethality indicator. That's how serious jealousy needs to
be taken. And I think so few people understand that
when you're doing a risk assessment of a victims survivor

(01:01:37):
as family violence, jealous and controlling behaviors are.

Speaker 7 (01:01:41):
Right up there. They are so much more of a
red flag than physical violence.

Speaker 6 (01:01:45):
And I think people just don't understand these things, because
unless you work in every day, how else are you
supposed to get that information?

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Emily, can you talk us through some of the other
main red flags that people should look at for So.

Speaker 7 (01:01:57):
I mean, I think we've talked about quite a lot
of them.

Speaker 6 (01:01:59):
So anyone who's kind of telling you what to do,
what to think, how to think, where to go, how
you should dress, things that are much more subtle in
inverted commas, repeated constant name calling, telling you that you're stupid,
or making jokes about the fact that you're stupid. Particularly
I think when you're talking about heterosexual relationships between men

(01:02:20):
and women, you know, in queer relationships, one of the
red flags is kind of threats of outing is a
really common form of violence, whether it's outing at work
or adding to family, which is a really significant kind
of safety risk of anyone in a queer relationship. It's
the pattern of behavior that is basically just trying to
make you just chip away your self esteem just bit
by bit so.

Speaker 7 (01:02:40):
That you almost manage your own behavior so that he
doesn't have to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
You mentioned before that sometimes people in our lives can
downplay the things that are happening to us. But on
the flip side of that, often it could be the
people in our lives who notice that something's wrong or
who think that there is something untoward going on in
a relationship, but the person who's in the relationship either
doesn't want to act knowledge it, or doesn't want to
face it, or just isn't ready to talk about it
because maybe they're frightened, or maybe they can't see the

(01:03:06):
road in which that relationship is heading down. If you're
somebody who has someone in your life who you're worried about,
or you want to be that supportive friend, what is
the best course of action for someone to take?

Speaker 6 (01:03:16):
So it is always about one first and foremost, letting
them know that you're there, and letting them know that
it doesn't matter what they do, that you will be there.
So I think oftentimes people go into trying to support
a friend or a family member who's experiencing violence, and
you know, support for a little while and then get
frustrated because they won't leave or the behavior doesn't change,

(01:03:37):
and they give them an ultimatum and say, well, if
you don't leave.

Speaker 7 (01:03:40):
I'm not supporting you anymore.

Speaker 6 (01:03:41):
It is an understandable frustration that people have because you
just want to protect that person that you love. But
it's possibly one of the least helpful things that you
can do. So I think having a conversation it doesn't
have to be you know. I think if someone had
said to you in terms of your experience it, you know,
are you experiencing violence, You're probably likely to say no.
For most people, it's not the most empowering term.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
I would have said no for sure.

Speaker 7 (01:04:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:04:03):
Yeah, And I think a lot of people do even
if you are you experiencing abuse. But things like asking
if your partner, you know, saying, oh, he got really angry,
you know, I saw him get really angry the other day,
or I didn't really like the way he spoke to you,
or he talked about him being really jealous, like how
does that make you feel? Asking them for their opinions,
sort of pointing out the behavior and saying I don't
want to see you treated like that. How does that

(01:04:23):
make you feel? And talking to.

Speaker 7 (01:04:24):
Them about the impact on them is a really good opener.

Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
One of the things we often say to people not
to do is don't chip can partner so particularly not
I mean most of the time, and people are still
in relationships with someone who's abusive to them because they
he loved them and they's someone who sometimes they've been with.

Speaker 7 (01:04:39):
For a really long time.

Speaker 6 (01:04:40):
So all you're going to do by talking negatively about
their partner is isolate them and make them feel like
they can't talk to you. And the other thing I
would say is really just make sure that whatever the
conversation is, even if you say something and they say
I don't know what you're talking about, if they get
angry at you, follow up with a text and just
say just letting you know I'm always here if you
want to talk, doesn't matter what their response is. Is
making sure that they know that they could be whoever

(01:05:02):
they need to be to you, and that you're going
to be there and keep asking the question.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
It's so convoluted and not just hard to address with someone,
but it's so hard for some people to come to
the realization because, as you mentioned, it's not black and white.
It's not like you have these people who are horrible
to you all the time. I'm sure that exists in
some relationships, but it's usually the highs of being wonderfully
in love and feeling like they're everything that you wanted.
In a partner and then they're incredible those that come
with this sort of like oscillating roller coaster. And that's

(01:05:28):
why it can be so hard for some people to leave,
because they're continuously trying to get it back to being
good again. Not just because they can't leave for all
the reasons of feeling controlled and everything else.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
But there is love.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
There, there is feelings, and there is the fondness and
the memories of what the relationship may be used to be,
and that's something that also keeps people in the relationship.

Speaker 7 (01:05:47):
You're absolutely right.

Speaker 6 (01:05:48):
I think there's two different spectrums of violent relationships in
some respects from a victim survivor's perspective, I think one
is I feel unsafe and I don't want this to
behave you to occur anymore.

Speaker 7 (01:05:58):
Or I want to leave and.

Speaker 6 (01:05:59):
I need to figure out how to make the behavior
stop or how to leave. That's one thing, and I'm
going to do whatever it is that I need to do.

Speaker 7 (01:06:05):
In order to achieve that. The other is, yes, I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
Like how it treats me sometimes, but sometimes he's just
the best person in the world and I really love him.
And so I think when you're talking about those sorts
of people, it's.

Speaker 7 (01:06:16):
Really important to go gently.

Speaker 6 (01:06:18):
But the thing that I think if you try to
support a friend who's in that kind of ladder category,
give her a timeline.

Speaker 7 (01:06:24):
Not you give her a timeline, but that's going to
give herself a timeline.

Speaker 6 (01:06:26):
How long is she going to she has him to
go to counseling or a couple's therapy or two.

Speaker 7 (01:06:30):
Has them to change his behavior.

Speaker 6 (01:06:32):
Don't give it as an ultimatum, but say how long
are you willing to give him to change? He's not
given you any indicator over six months a year that
he's going to change.

Speaker 7 (01:06:42):
It's pretty unlikely that his behavior is going to shift.

Speaker 6 (01:06:45):
And I think one of the things that we can
offer do, particularly when you still love someone, is grab a.

Speaker 7 (01:06:49):
Hold of anything that looks like behavior change. And you,
as a friend or the.

Speaker 6 (01:06:53):
Family member who's trying to support someoney, has often got
to be that really tricky voice of reason, which is
really really hard, and it's hard to navigate.

Speaker 7 (01:06:59):
In a way that's not going to harm your friendship
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
There are so many blurred lines with all these forms
of abuse, financial abuse. It can be I love you,
let's put out money and find my Friends on your phone,
like so many relationships put find my Friends on their
partner's phones just in case anything goes wrong. I know
where you are, but I think it's really hard for
a lot of people to recognize that it's actually happening
in their relationship.

Speaker 6 (01:07:21):
It is, and I think Fun my Friends is a
really really great example because it's particularly for women, is
often used is a thing that we put on ourselves
make ourselves feel safer, you know, recognizing it's often just
a perception of safety rather than actual safety, but sometimes
that's what we need. For me, I think that the
issue is if you don't have a choice, red flag
number one. If you can't change your mind, red flag

(01:07:42):
number two. And if you don't know what's happening, so
therefore you haven't consented it, that's a red flag for me.
Those are the things that should make you start to
question whether what you are in is currently or is
ever going to be a healthy relationship. And if it's not,
it's often better to be out of it and to
be single and to be kind of happy and healthy
and safe by yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
So for anybody that does want to, they think they
might be in a situation where they do need to leave.
What are some resources or what's the first step you
would say to a person that might be listening that's
just realized that, you know what, my relationship's probably not
right and I need to get out.

Speaker 6 (01:08:16):
If they're feeling unsafe and they feel like they do
want to leave, they can call one eight hundred respect,
which is a natural domestic, fairly violence and sexual assault
counseling line, and they can put you in touch with
someone in your local.

Speaker 7 (01:08:28):
Regional area who can support you.

Speaker 6 (01:08:31):
If you feel like you're not really ready to take
that step talking to someone you can pick up the
phone directly to a specialist support service, but talking to
someone who you think might have had a similar experience
to you. Now that might be online, it might be
you know, I'm sure that you two get people reaching
out to you all the time asking you for advice.
I think one of the things that I noticed about
women who've experienced cos WHO controlling behaviors and violence is

(01:08:53):
that they are so exceptionally generous with.

Speaker 7 (01:08:55):
Their time and their expertise and their lived experience.

Speaker 6 (01:08:58):
So reaching out to someone who you think, whether you
know them or not, who might have had similar experience
as a good thing or talking to a friend, And
I think that's the one that can be really challenging
someone as we talk to our friends and they minimize it.

Speaker 7 (01:09:08):
But I would say trust your guy.

Speaker 6 (01:09:10):
If you're feeling like you want to talk to someone,
there's enough there that you need to trust that there's
something happening. If you feel like you need to talk
about your relationship and seek support, it's definitely something that's
worth doing. It will often take a couple of goals
as well, so it's not good that you're going to
make up your mind overnight. These are long standing relationships
to so many people and we need to take our time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
No, And it's great to know that there are so
many support networks because we do know that leaving a
situation is the most dangerous time for a person in
a domestic violent situation. But thank you so much for
coming on, Emily. It's so important for us. We feel
very passionate about it and about speaking about this and
hopefully giving people a support network themselves. So we really

(01:09:48):
appreciate your time today.

Speaker 7 (01:09:50):
Oh Worries, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 6 (01:09:51):
It's such a great podcast and such a great conversation
that you're consistently having so thank you both.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
All Right, you guys know that we never finished our
episode without us sucking us in our highlight and our
low light of each and every week.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
My suck is that I'm a four.

Speaker 6 (01:10:06):
What do you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
You're a four?

Speaker 6 (01:10:07):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
You know what I mean? I mean Tom Kenny gave
me a four. I'm a six at best.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
I would not let him. You know what, that should
not be your suck, because that's not real. My suck
is that I tried so hard. I tried.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
I fucking trained my ass off and I still can't dance,
but I tried.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
You are a ten. Thank you? Not almost everything seven dancing? No,
not technically. No, that's not really my suck. I actually,
do you know what?

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
I don't really have like an overall suck from this
week because the experience of doing the show was honestly,
it was so so fun.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
It was phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
But I got really down on myself because I wanted
to do better. And that's because I am a driven
perfectionist and I hate not being good at stuff, and
it turns out I'm not good at dancing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
You don't like that you're hard on yourself, but you
should be very proud.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
It was the semi finals. Yeah, a whole few people
went home before me. Yeah, literally everyone to the semifinals
and Dancing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
With the still literally makes it sound so much better
than it is in a way, hey, because like the
semifinals basically had everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:11:08):
That's funny. But I still made it. You know what.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
No one cares about the semantics or the like the
finery details. I made it to the finals of Dancing
with the Stars and that's all the matters.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
So that's your sweet. Still can't dance and that is
my suck.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
And my sweet for the week was that it was
my girlfriend's hen's party on Saturday night. We did karaoke
and we got a stripper and there was a stripper
in the karaoke room and it was a very small
room and it was so weird and hilarious, and you
know what, that wasn't definitely not the highlight.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Although he was from Brazil, he was a lovely boy
and he was very good looking. Still ow lot of segways.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Still not the highlight. The highlight was that we had her.
It was the fling after the ring because she'd already
had her wedding. It was the one where I burnt
my fingers.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Set yourself on fire.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
But I just had an awesome night with my closest
girlfriends and we stay in a hotel for the night
and it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
Was just really freaking great. That's really cute. That's a good,
sweet three hours of karaoke. We went hard Hemian Rhapsody
see some on the gram. I saw you having a
great time.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Nothing makes you feel as uncoordinated, like you have no rhythm,
no beat, no nothing in your body as screaming karaoke
in a tiny little room.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
I also don't know why karaoke never ends up as singing.
It just is screaming. Everyone just ends up screaming and belting.
And the microphone quality is bad and it sounds way worse.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Than it is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
I think it has nothing to do with microphone quality.
I think it's truly just the way we sound. But
I also think people end up screaming because let's just
put it this way, most people, me included, can't sing,
and so that is what that's the noise that comes
out when we try to sing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
It's a scream.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
See anyway, that was my hat at It was Steph's
Hans and it was freaking great.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Well, mya suck this week would be that Delilah has
just had a month long diet of seafood and now
she's fashing like squids are coming out of her butt.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
She squids. Yeah, I've got a weaner off the seafood.
Do you need to go and get her?

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
Anal Glance expressed, that's a really cute ending to the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
No, she did a fart in the car and in
the car she well, no, I don't think I think
she fared in the car twenty four hours before.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Yeah, that's marinated overnight and we thought.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
We hopped in the car on the way to work
and it was like we had entered the seafood market.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
It was like we were at the second market. Do
you know what that is? And this is why.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
So I have a very big dog and I have
to take him to the vet every so often to
get his anal glands express that's what this is. It's
a fishy smelling smell. It's not about their diet, so
it's their sense.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
My dad has given her fish every day because he
thinks it's good for their coat, which it is a
Mega three. It's great gray for everyone for your Coat's
not an anal gland thing. Don't you put me in
your anal gland circle.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
But the problem is is that a fart in the
car won't linger.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
That is juices. That is anal juice in your boot. Anyway,
my sweet is. When I went up to my parents'
house to pick Delilah up, I got to catch up,
obviously with all my family.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
But I have a new nephew.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
I say you, he's five months now, I'm bear and
it's always right, yeah, raight, we cannot say his name
with that kind. I just love seeing him. He is
the sweetest. He's a sort of child. You know how
some children a contraception and others make you want to
have them. Yeah, he's the child that makes you want
to have a child, because he's literal perfection.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
What are my children?

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Britt Marley was an ovary burner. Lola Derby was contraception
Loland because because Lola just screamed a lot. What about now, though,
Oh no, they both make you want to have kids
now because they're both very sweet. But that's took a
few years. Yeah, oh no, Lola made me run for
the hills. Me too, twenty four hour consistent screaming for
months on end. I don't know how you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
I didn't actually explain a lot yet I'm insane. I
lost the plot about a year ago. And you're rocky.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
I know now you're rocking. I literally started rocking in
my seat. I realized it's the tre It was the.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
PTSD from when I mentioned that you started rocking. Oh
my god, make it stop. So that was it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
I got to see little bear and he's the cutest
little thing and I'm obsessed with him and I want
to cuddle him.

Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
Do you know what I like to say?

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
I like to say, you don't want anyone to peak
too young. If kids are unicorns when they're very first born,
it probably means they're going to.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
End up being serial killers. Dad has no science or
just like a drop pick, no fact, that's a drop kick.
You know. That's what it's in five months old, so
let's not count it out now. That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:15:10):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
If you love the episode, please give us a sneaky
little review. Keep your accenting on Filtered's coming in, You're
ask on cuts coming in all your funny stories confessionals,
and do you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
What like I mean of course like at Life and
Cut podcast TikTok, Instagram, all the good stuff, jump on
the Facebook, britty unscore holckly l Yeah yeah, yeah, mean
can cause she's sitting in the corner like, hey, guys,
what would I be? You should particp me No, go
on to Apple Podcast if that's where you're listening, and
go and hit subscribe, Because as much as we say
leave a review and everything else, I think the most
important thing for you to be able to have the

(01:15:39):
episodes as soon as they drop is if you go
and hit that little plus button. It means that they
will be there the second that we upload an episode.
And often we accidentally upload it early, which will mean
you'll get it early.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
Yeah. Sometimes Laura gets trufing happy she presses go a
week early. You could be on that lucky list.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
You might get it on a Monday and not on Tuesday,
and that has happened quite a few times recently.

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
So yes, I would say sorry, but I'm sure no
one's mad about it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
And don't forget tell your mum, to your dad, tell
your dog, tell your friends, and share the love because
we love them.

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