The fine line when it comes to injectables, and the intimacy paradox.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life on Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country. We
pay our respects to their elders past and present.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on Drug Wallamata Land. Hi guys, and welcome back
to another episode.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
The podcast. It's Monday.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
It's probably Tuesday, but if you're listening to this, but
it's today's got.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Some Monday vibe to it.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
What did you say just two seconds ago? I was like,
we really got to bring the energy today. You said,
I mean a silly mood.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I said, I.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Feel a bit silly. Do you know why?

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Firstly, Hi, I'm Keisha, You're Laura, Thank you, Hello everybody.
I'm feeling in for brit Do you know why I
think I feel so weird is because you and I
both got taken down by the spicy cough two weeks ago.
We both had COVID and no, I haven't felt the
same since. I'm a changed woman. Not for the better, No,
one hundred percent, not.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
For the better. I feel like a bit of a
space get it.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
I feel like I'm a little bit you know the
lag you get or either when you're a little bit
jet lagged, or if you've had a sleeping pill the
night before and you feel a little bit like like
you're moving slowly in space.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
That's how I feel right now, and I feel a
bit giddy.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
This is gonna be a good episode for everybody. Hi,
and welcome back to Life on Cut podcast. Casha, I
absolutely know exactly how you're feeling.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
And I say this.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Because I have been pretending to be okay, like I'm
not okay nothing, and that that applies to many parallels
of my life. But no, in terms of COVID testing
negative have been for quite a while now. But the spaceiness,
the body tiredness, like the saw back, the saw head,
and I wake up in the morning and I can

(01:51):
only relate it to being in my early twenties when
I used to do a bit more partying. And when
I say a bit more, I mean I used to
party and now I do not party at all. But
you wake the next day after giving it a good
nudge on a night out and you're not sick, but
you are so spacey that you can't actually concentrate. And
that's where I feel like my head space is at
and has been every day since kind of getting COVID.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I'm really glad we're going through this together though, because
I mean, firstly, you're my boss, but secondly I can
just be like, hey, you still feel it closer in
it together, We're okay. I played touch footy last Tuesday
afternoon and I'd been testing negative for like six days,
so I was like, she'll be sweet, but I'm also
the most unfit. Like we were on the tour. I
haven't exercised for quite genuinely two months.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
I haven't exercise since Dancing with the Stars. So I
feel you like touch food, it's pretty.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's very like.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Stop start, sprint stop, sprint stop.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
There were moments where I truly couldn't breathe, and I
was like, Okay, I'm gonna blame this on COVID, but
I don't know whether it's that I'm unfit or that
it's a COVID of maybe it's a bit of both.
But I also put my back out. I was like, fuck,
I've crossed the hill.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Turn thirty. Yeah, that's thirty thirty.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
So that's where I'm at right now. The reason I'm
feeling in today is because Britt is undergoing another round
of egg freezing, and so she had an appointment this morning.
It's a very time sensitive. They've got to be like
carefully planned, and it just coincided with today.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I didn't realize this, but like I kind of did,
but I guess I didn't realize the level of time
sensitiveness of it. If you're going through egg freezing or
through IVF and you're having to self inject, there's very
specific times as to when you have to go in
for your appointments and get your levels in everything else,
your blood's checked, and so that has to be x
amount of days or or x amount of hours in

(03:37):
terms of like when you started ovulating or when you've
gotten your period. And so for Britt it landed very
much this morning when we were supposed to be doing
our record, and so that is why we have produced
a Kisha and myself here bat them down the hatches
while she's off getting poked and prodded.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Speaking of being poked and prodded, Laura, the last time
I feeled in on the podcast, we recorded from your
home and we spoke about you getting a perhaps mire
and then I sell your Instagram story last week, and
it seems as though you've forgotten about that joyous experience.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
It was like seven weeks ago. It really wasn't that
long ago. So I got this reminder in my phone
seven weeks ago. I put I have like a note
section where I put down all the things that I
need to get done in a day, and one of
them was that I needed to go and have my
routine perhaps mere like my health check.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
But yeah, last time we called it perhaps me, we
did get multiple messages saying it's called a cervical scream.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
And like, yes, it's true.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
That also, well, okay, people were like really angry in
the DMS. There were so many like healthcare professionals and
there were so many other females who got really annoyed
that we called it a peraps me. And I find
this interesting because I think anyone talking about perapsmes should
just be the reminder for everyone to go and get
them right, Like whether you're using the right terminology or not,

(04:52):
I don't think it negates how important it is to
go and have it done. And I think any sort
of awareness and conversation around it is the reminder for
most women Okay, I need to go and book that
appointment and if nothing else, and also you know what
we mean, like come on, We've been calling it past
me since I was like fourteen years old.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
But I got in.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Troubled for not calling it a speculam. I called it
a duck beak.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Again, you do what I meant?

Speaker 3 (05:15):
I can't the image?

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Do you come to life one cut for accuracy? I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
And if that's the case, we apologize, all right. Well, anyway,
the story goes. Seven weeks ago, I went and I
had my cervical screening, my perapsmere done now. I even
told a story around how I was a little bit
mortified because it was my first one after having babies
where they put in the speculum thing and the little
clicker clicks. There weren't as many clicker clicks anymore, and

(05:40):
things have changed downstairs. That all happened seven weeks ago.
I completely forgot. And when I say I completely forgot,
not only did I I didn't just forget that I
told the story. I forgot that I had a perhaps mere.
So I saw it in my notes when I was
laying in bed with COVID, and I was like, oh,
I need to book in for my screening. So I

(06:02):
booked in. I made the appointment. The lovely lady who
works at the front desk, like booked me in. I
then once I tested negative, I got in my car.
These are the many steps. The reason why I'm setting
this up is because there's many steps of forgetting here.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
You've even forgotten to add one. You put it in
our joint work calendar. So when I saw it in
the work calendar, I just naturally went, oh, maybe something
wasn't quite right.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
She's got to go get it checked up again. You
didn't think to ask. You weren't, like, no, I hope
everything's okay. If she wants to talk to me about
she will.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
So I book the appointment. I drive to the clinic.
I sit down in the waiting room, like I check
myself in. I sit down in the waiting room. Then
it comes my doctor, who's my regular GP. She's lovely.
I see her, you know, relatively frequently, whenever there's something
going on. And she goes like, oh, Laura, come on in.
And I walk into the appointment. I sit in her
little tiny room. We close the door. She sits down
and she says, why are you here? And I said,

(06:55):
I'm here for perhaps mere And she goes, what do
you mean?

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And I said, I mean you know when you stick
the thing up and you that's such a good time.
At the last scrapey scrape around, I was like, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (07:07):
You know what they are?

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I was like, oh God, she forgotten the name of it?

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Is it now?

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I'm even my savior screening God?

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Anyway, So then she looks at me and she goes,
I gave you one seven weeks ago, and I shit
you not. It was only as she was saying I
gave you one seven weeks ago. It took me a
couple of seconds, and then I looked at the bed
that I laid on seven weeks ago when she was
rummaging around my undercarriage, and then it all came back
to me.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
It was the weirdest experience of my life.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
I had forgotten so deeply that I had had a bapsmia,
that this woman had been inside me, and it required
her to explain it to me. And I was like, God,
maybe that happened to me in my twenties where I
was like having a conversation with a guy and.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
I was like, how do I know you?

Speaker 3 (07:49):
I was about to say, is this the first time
you've forgotten someone that's been inside of you?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
We've all been there, right, or just me, okay, no,
But honestly, it got to the point where I was
explaining to my like, you know, she was obviously a
bit concerned, and I was a bit concerned. And then
she said, at the end of the appointment, because I
kind of made up this excuse, I have this rash
on my arm.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
And I was like, oh, I'm also here about the rash,
you're not.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
And then at the end of the appointment, she was like,
I think we might want to do some memory testing
on you to make sure that everything's okay. She's like,
because this is a pretty big thing to have completely forgotten,
and so as much as we laugh about it, I
when worried.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Well, I feel like I need to trade carefully here
because your memory has been a topic of conversation in
our little team before, and the last time I brought
it up, I got in trouble for bullying. I got
in trouble for saying, hey, Laura, I really do think
that maybe it's a bit of a sign of ADHD

(08:47):
and hands up. I'm currently in the process of being
medicated for it. So I've been formally diagnosed and I've
gone through all the tests and all that, and I said, look, hey,
you are particularly forgetful and not putting the finger hold
a mirror because I'm exactly the same. But the last
time I said it to you, you got a little
bit offended.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well I only got offended, And Okay, I don't know
if anybody else who is forgetful or struggles with these
sorts of things. It's often the very first thing that
people say. And I think because this conversation around ADHD
has become it's come so into the public sphere, right like,
people talk about it a lot. There's been a lot
of public figures who have been diagnosed recently, and even yourself, Kishi,

(09:28):
like you've gone and had this diagnosis. And I know
that this is the first time we've ever spoken about
it on the podcast in terms of your experience, but
I do kind of feel like it's now thrown around
so really nearly in terms of it being almost like
a funny accusation. But I'm not sitting here saying I
think I have ADHD. I'm sitting here saying I know
I'm very, very forgetful and it's something I'm self conscious about.

(09:49):
But it makes me feel stupid when people highlight it,
and I think it's the joking around it that makes
me feel like I'm not doing a very good job,
or like I'm not someone who's trustworthy, or I'm not
someone who who has my shit together, And that's what
the implication is when it's like, hahaha, maybe you should
go get tested now. I don't know if that's what
my doctor was implying when she said I needed to
have memory tests done. My big fear, and I know

(10:11):
I've spoken about it before, is that it pertains more
to memory loss. Like my worry is always around hereditary
dementia or alzheimis more so not dementia, because that's something
that has been quite a problem in my family, and
there are people in my family who have had alzheimis
very very young. My great Annie she passed away when
she was in her fifties from alzheimus. So like, that's

(10:34):
the fear I live with, and I guess that that's
why when it's come up as a bit of a
joke of like, oh maybe I have ADHD haha ha,
I feel instantly defensive about it because I want it
to not be a problem in my life.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
But sometimes it.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Is that makes a lot more sense. And also I
feel like a bit of an nonshole now for making
jokes about it, But I very much relate to the whole,
Like when people kind of and I know that they're
doing in a jovial way. I know that no one
ever means to offend you when they say things like, oh,
maybe not so you're your neurodivergence, Like, but I haven't
said to me a lot of the time as well.
Every now and then it'll just get you on the
wrong day and you'll just be like, today, it's not

(11:07):
the day to joke about it, because it's something that
I actually am firstly concerned about. Secondly, I struggle with
or there are certain days where it's harder I can
understand with it, like the weight of your family experience,
of your memory. It would be a particularly triggering thing.
So I do I actually want to say, oh my cope,
but Poulah, oh my god, you don't like I apologize
if you know something that you're actually this is a

(11:28):
true fear of mine, Like I live in fear that
that could be something that you do actually have to
deal with.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, and I guess, I mean, I don't think that
this just this conversation just relates to people who are forgetful,
Like I think it's when we feel when you have
an insecurity in yourself, whatever that might look like. Whether
for me it's my forgetfulness and my scattiness for other people,
I don't know. It could be that you're super attention
to detail orientated, right, and sometimes that can be paralyzing,

(11:55):
Like if you're someone who needs to you know, you're
a bit of a perfectionist. That can also be sometimes
a negative trait because you focus so much on getting
things perfect. But when it's used as a criticism, when
someone says it as a joke, oh, you're such a perfectionist,
but you know that that highlights an insecurity that you
already have in yourself. It's hard to be like, hah ha,

(12:16):
that's so funny, when actually the humor is just that
you're the butt of the joke and that you're meant
to make fun of you the things that are looked
at and deemed as flaws in yourself, If that makes sense.
It took a really serious turn, which is not intentional.
But I do think that sometimes we can make fun
of our friends in a very very lighthearted way. Not
meaning for it, but what actually is being interpreted is

(12:37):
a criticism.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Really interesting you said that about the like being quite
anal about things and like a perfectionist, because I think
a lot of the time people throw around, oh my god,
you're so UCD. Yes, I constantly hear that, and I
know that people do not mean any ill intent by
saying it. It actually does show me a real lack
of understanding of what the condition actually is and how
debilitating it can.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Be for people.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
In a similar way that I guess like forgetfulnessst a like, well,
you might have audio to dream, but it's not the
only reason that I think you. Potentially you may fall
onto the symptom list of other ADHD things.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Well, I guess the other thing I wanted to say
about the whole ADHD conversation and like, I would love
to have a proper chat with you, Keisha around what
it has been like for you in terms of understanding
the symptoms, in terms of like why you wanted to
go and go down the very long and complicated path
of diagnosis and the very expensive path of speaking to

(13:30):
a psych therapist and getting not just diagnosed but also
getting medication for it. I would love to kind of
unpack where that all came from. I'm not sure if
today's the episode for it, but like, we can, we
can get there, we can end up there. But I
also think on one hand, it has had such a
public moment ADHD. If you spend any time on TikTok,
if you spend any time on social media, you would

(13:50):
have seen people like.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Me a Freedman. There are huge media.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Personalities who have been speaking very publicly about their experiences
with ADHD. And I think on one side of things,
it's had this incredible exposure where a lot of people
have identified symptoms in themselves and thought, Okay, I want
to go and get this checked out. But I also
think on the other side, it's maybe made some people
be like, oh, I don't want to because I think

(14:15):
for me, I'm like I don't want to go and
get that checked out because I don't want to just
be like another person within the public world who's gone
and gotten those symptoms assessed. If anything, it's made me
resistant to the conversation rather than accepting of the conversation,
which is weird. It's almost had like the opposite effect
because and I know that there's something that you mentioned
you would hate for someone to interpret it as.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
You're just doing it because it's trendy. It's trendy.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
It's literally the first thing I said is my a psychiatrist.
I was like, Hey, just want to be totally transparent.
I know that this is all the rage on TikTok
right now. I know that particularly for women, because I
think that that publicization of this symptoms and how it
affects women, it can be very different for boys and
girls when you're growing up, and basically there was this
huge lack of understanding of how ADHD presented in little girls,

(15:04):
and for that reason, a lot of us didn't get diagnosed.
It was just that we were chatty, we were distractable,
light blah blah blah. But as soon as.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
I walked into my psychiatrist, I sat down and.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
I was like, Hey, just want to get this out
of the way. I know that there are so many
people right now rolling their eyes, going fucking everyone thinks
they've got ADHD.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
But it's also because so many of the symptoms are
created from the world in which we live in, like this,
like lack of attention, like this, overstimulation, this overworking, like
a lot of those things mimic the same symptoms of
which people who struggle with it have.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Absolutely and I think it's kind of the perfect storm
in a tea cup at the moment, because we have
this world that is so driven by attention and it's
literally a commodity, like organizations make money off of keeping
your attention, and if it's something that.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
You've struggle with your whole life, it's a rock.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
And a hard place, you know. And I kind of
walked in and I was like, I just want to
get this.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Out of the way.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
I've been meaning to do this for more than ten years. Firstly,
it wasn't for financially accessible for me initially. Secondly, it's
just been something that the wait lists are literally eight
months long in sitting. And I know we'll go into
this in proper detail in a further episode, but like
there's this real part of me who's like, I don't
know if I want to talk about it, because I
just don't want to deal with people being like, oh,

(16:17):
another one, Like here's another one. I think she's got it,
and I'm like, you know, like this is really something
that I've lived with for a long time. I've been
aware of it for a really long time, but I've
finally gotten the motivation to do something about it. And
I just I don't know, I understand where all the
eye rolling comes from, Like because everyone, when you talk
to them in conversation, they'll be like, oh, yeah, I

(16:37):
got adioch too, And I'm like, I know again that
you think I align with some of these symptoms, but
there is a difference, Like there's a difference between being
distractable or you know, having a little bit of time
blindness or whatever it can be, and having it to
the point where you're like, oh, my life is actually
becoming a bit challenging get through the day. Yeah, it'd

(16:57):
be hard to manage. And it's something that I've kind
of become accustomed to. And I spoke to one of
my best friends a couple of weeks ago who was diagnosed,
and we have very similar personality traits, so we were
kind of a bit like like this checks.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
You're one of my people.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
I get why we click. And she had become medicated
and she called me. It must have been about two
weeks into her being medicated, and she cried and she
was like, I had no idea how much I was
struggling until now I've got this clarity. It's like putting
on prescription glasses and being like, wait, people see like this,
people function like this. Like it was just this real

(17:33):
clarity that she had never experienced before. And so I'm
really at the point where I'm really hopeful that that's
what's going to be around the corner for me. But yeah,
we won't talk about too much of idiot and we'll
do it another time.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, I think we'll do a proper deep dive into
it for you and then specifically in terms of like
how it has helped or in what ways it has
impacted you having this diagnosis, because I know that you're
at that very early stages where you receive the diagnosis
but you have haven't received the medication for it, and
then what that looks like. And we have over the
past couple of years received in terms of ask on cuts.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
So many questions.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
We have never felt equipped or like we have the
ability to talk to it. And knowing that you have
been through this process now, it's definitely something that is
far more personal for you rather than just giving advice.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, it's also like a symptom of idiot cheese at
your chronic oversharer, and so I'm like, can let.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Me tell you that everything.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Is everything that's.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Going on in their line?

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay, Well, speaking of oversharing, there's something that we were
talking about in the car ride and I so deeply
wanted to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Now.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
This was just a conversation between friends around cosmetic procedures,
and I always find cosmetic procedures I find it's such
a voyeuristic conversation because very rarely are people honest and
open about talking about the things that they have had done.
And it's because we live in a world that, as
much as it is celebrated and it is normalized, still

(19:00):
a little bit of shame that goes along with it.
And it's not shame around getting procedures done, but it's
shame around not being a natural beauty. So it's like
this expectation that almost everyone gets tweaks or things done now,
but we're also expected that we just should be naturally beautiful.
Those things should have just happened to us without the
added assistance and help. Naki, something that you have spoken about,

(19:23):
and I don't know if you mentioned on the podcast,
but it's something that you don't have any issue talking
about is that you've had lip filler over the years,
and that it's been something that has quite dramatically in
ways changed your physical appearance of your face.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
I would say, yeah, So the reason we're talking about
this now is because yesterday I was supposed to have
my lip filler dissolved, and we've kind of I was
just chatting about it with you yesterday when we were
texting normally, and then I was like, Oh.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Don't talk about this, Like is this an overshare moment?

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, And so the kind of process my lip filler
story again have absolutely no problem. And I all, I'm
so find it foreign that people are weird talking about
it because I'm just so not I just don't care.
I do not care if you are the type of
person who judges me for doing that to my face. Truly,
this is not me being defensive, being like, oh, I'm

(20:14):
gonna act all tough and like it doesn't affect me.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
It literally doesn't affect me, Like.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
I don't care. My family have made jokes about it
for years, and I just it's water off, it ducts
back to me.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
It doesn't even touch the sides.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I mean, it's kind of shit that people make jokes
about it. But I mean the flip side to that
is that it is refreshing to hear people speak about
cosmetic procedures in a way that is candid, and I
don't mean in a way that endorses them. I mean
in a way that when you look at them on
social media, you go, yes, they are beautiful. But I
also have the understanding that they've had help to look

(20:44):
that way, because it makes me feel less bad about myself.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
It is so refreshing when people are actually honest about
the things that they've had done and we're not sitting
there going, oh, do you think they've had villa or
botox or like some tweak or tuck, because why do
they look the way that they look?

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Genetics is unfair?

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, so much have a problem when people keep it
private because that's up to them. I have a problem
when people lie about it. I have a problem when
people are like, no, I've never had anything done, blah
blah blah, and I'm like, you fucking have yeah, But
then what's the difference on that, Because the problem is
just say you're someone who lives and works in the
public sphere, you then are not entitled to privacy because

(21:21):
people are always going to ask, So then what's your option.
You're going to have to either be open about it,
in which case means that there is no entitlement to
privacy about the things that you have done, or you lie.
They're the only two options you have. And so there
are so many public figures who lie about it because
the alternate, which is being honest, means that they feel
like it's shameful, or it's something that they should feel

(21:43):
like they'll be embarrassed about, or they won't be seen
as being natural or taken seriously.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
The many reasons are that people lie about their cosmetic surgeries.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
I guess you can refuse to answer, but that heavily
implies the end totally, like that kind of tells it
without telling it.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
So, what was your reason for wanting to get your
lip filler dissolved?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
And what does that look like you?

Speaker 3 (22:00):
So my reason for wanting to get filler at to
begin with, I reckon it would have been it must
have been four or five years ago, and for me,
I always felt like they were really not even My
bottom lip was quite literally six to seven times the
size of my toplip, and I felt like whenever I smiled.
I didn't have a top clip and I didn't like
that and I wanted more lip, and so I got filler,

(22:22):
and I probably would have had it must be five
or six times different amounts. You usually get either half
a meal or a meal. And it's a natural protein.
So they inject a protein that holds a bit. I
think it's about fifty times it's weight in water. So
that's how filler works, Like they inject this protein that
naturally occurs in your body. It has this water retention
effect and that's what makes them look more full, but

(22:43):
it does naturally degrade, and that's why you're supposed to
get them done over and over again. I haven't had
feeler in my lips for it must be more than
two years now. They've kind of retained the size that
I like.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Well, that's the thing is I think that there is
this lie with filler that most people think it completely
breaks down and then you have to start from scratch.
Filla does not completely break down in your body. If
you get filler, it may reduce in size, but it
does not break down and completely dissipate from your body.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
I think it depends on the person, like it depends
on how you metabolize anything, and so for me it
hasn't completely gone away. But I was getting botoc last week,
which also I'm very open about. So I have got
a really good cosmetic conjector now and she's great. And
I just said to her, I was like, you know,
I haven't had FeelA for about two maybe two and
a half years, I can't really remember. But I'm just

(23:33):
not liking the look of them at the moment. And
I don't know what it is that I don't like.
Do you think I need to get a bit more
put back in the top as it's afflated, it looks
to me like it's being way down anyway. She's like,
can you flip your lip.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Under for me?

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Like, turn the top of it towards your nose and
flip it under. She held a mirror up and she
was like, can you see these bubbles? This is villa
that has pulled in the bottom of your lip and
it's weighing it down. It's on the underside. Apparently it's
because one of the people who's injected them has not
done it properly. And I've got these they're pretty big bumps.
They feel like little cysts on the inside. Have you

(24:08):
ever got like a little cyst inside your mouth? It
feels like seven of those in a row on the
underside of my lip.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Firstly, how did I not notice this?

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Because it's been there for so long that I didn't,
And now that she's made me aware of it, I
cannot feel anything else in my mouth. It's literally the
only thing that I'm running my tongue over being like,
I don't know, I'm not notice this. And so she said, look,
the only thing that you can do is get them dissolved,
which initially I was like, but but I don't.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Want It's paid so much money for these I don't
want to get rid of them.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
I don't want to get on the podcast and be like, guys,
I'm getting me the filler dissolved because I've had this
moral decision where I'm like virtuous now and I'm turning
my back of cosmetic procedures. No no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
No, girls, not that I love that shit.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
I just had. The procedure wasn't done properly, and so
now I've got to get it dissolved. So they put
this thing called hyler race. I think I'm saying that correct. Yeah,
So it's a natural occurring in that breaks down the protein,
and the process is that they will basically dissolve all
of the filler in my lip, and then two weeks later,
if I want, I can get it refilled. And I'm

(25:11):
probably gonna do that, I think. I'm I'm obviously just
gonna wait and see what it looks like and see
if I like it or not. But yeah, it's It
was booked in for yesterday, but she was sick, so
I've got to get it done on I think Thursday
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
So I for this year.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
This is the first year since doing The Bachelor, which
was seven years ago. Now, oh my god, that is
so long where I haven't had botox. And I mean
I myself don't get filler, but I haven't had botox.
I mean I usually do get botox every year, and
this year I stopped. And now when you say that,
you're getting your lips dissolved, and it's not a virtuous decision.
This also wasn't. This is not me being like, oh

(25:44):
my god, I'm never going to do it again. I
don't want to ride that horse because then one day
when I do do it again, I know that people
will be like, hey, but you said, I just got
to a point I think this year where one financially,
I was like, I don't want the continuous burden of
the upkeeper and to time poor management, all those things
like trying to keep appointments, which I seem to forget.

(26:06):
It just means that I have gone the majority of
the year without having anything done. And also I then
kind of got to a point where I was like
and this kind of came off the back of the
live shows, and I'll tell you about I was like,
I like that my face moves now, I like that
I have expression. And you know, there's definitely days where
I struggle with feeling my full thirty seven years of age,
and especially when I compare myself to other people who

(26:28):
have completely smooth foreheads, there are moments where I'm like,
oh my god, I should probably book myself in for
an appointment. But I do also like the idea of
seeing what my natural face looks like, as it just
does what it does in terms of aging. My only
thing though, is like I do kind of feel like
we've been conditioned now that if there's something that you
don't like about yourself, that there's almost an expectation that

(26:51):
you would go and fix it straight away, that we
would go and get it treated. I think the issue
with it now is that we almost live in a
society where at one point there was the conversations around
normalizing it, like why should it be shameful to get
any sort of cosmic procedures or tweaking done? But now
it's almost the pendulums has swung so far in the
opposite direction that it is at the point of promotion.

(27:12):
It's almost like, now it's weird if you don't get
something done.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
It's weird if you buck the trend.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
And I mean I remember when Mia Friedman, for examples,
Mia Freeman she mentioned it twice now in this episode,
which is weird. But she's Muma Mia out Loud's posts,
also the director of mom and Mia the Agency. She
spoke quite candidly on her podcast around not getting botox,
and people really held her up as being an example

(27:37):
of aging gracefully. And then there was this massive uproar
within her community when one day she did go and
get it, and there were so many people in the
out Loud comments section who were enraged by the fact
that they felt betrayed that she had gone and gotten botox.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Yeah, I saw that post in their Facebook group. And
this is going back a little while ago. This is
not that reason. Someone had said, I'm really disappointed in
me because she really held up this standard of we
need to buck the trend, we need to say that
you don't need these things done. But what I commented
in that Facebook group, I feel like this is so

(28:15):
unfair because you're pointing the finger at an individual woman,
arguably one who suffers from the pressure of beauty standards
in the public space the most, and you're telling her
that she's responsible for bucking a trend, like she feels
the pressure probably more than the average person. But you're
also saying like you're responsible for standing up against a

(28:37):
whole culture of beauty standards that we've been accustomed to
living within.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
I guess the question, though there is, is is that
created so like, did she place herself as that person
by talking about it and saying that she had never
had it, or did the listeners of that podcast put
her as that person and go, Okay, well you represent
something that I don't want to do, and so now
I have someone who I can identify with, which is you,
Because you've not done it or was it very much

(29:04):
a conversation where she had originally bucked the trend, do
you know what I mean? And didn't have an interest
in it, and so it felt like a betrayal because
it was like a flip. I guess the ultimate thing
is is like people are allowed to change their minds.
It's not a fucking big deal. If you do, go
and get it done, or if you don't, go and
get it done. But I think that in terms of
where I'm at personally with my own cosmetic injections whatnot,

(29:26):
Like I, for the very first time feel like I'm okay,
and I feel confident enough that I don't want to
But does that mean that I'm ever going to change
my mind? No, I'm sure in the future I will again.
And I would never want to be an example either way.
And what I have also, and I was saying to
you in the car cage, like when I have received

(29:46):
the most criticism for the way I look, it has
been when I've had the least amount of things done.
And I say this because so I myself have these
lines under my eyes when I smile. I have a
very expressive face when I smile, and there's been photos
of me before that I've been up on Daily Mail
and it's me just smiling and I have like the

(30:07):
lines the folds under my eyes, and the comment section
has been like, oh my god, what has she done
under her eyes?

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Like what filla has she had?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
As though the lines under my eyes must be like
migrated filler, And it's like, no, that is literally what
I look like when I'm aging. That is just my face.
But the inn people got to know you seven years
ago totally, and.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
Their mind like, you're stuck seven years ago, that's what
your face looked like. And so now that you're a
different age and you literally ate you're literally seven years older,
they expect you to look exactly the same as what
you did seven years ago.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
But also seven years ago is when I was having
botox done. I was having botox when I was on
the Bachelor. My face didn't move, and now it does,
and then there's this almost like oh my god, what
has she done? And I don't say that this is
not widespread. I'm not receiving like copious amounts of backlash
across my Instagram or anything, But I'm just saying there
are comments that I see and it makes me feel
annoyed sometimes when I see comments on women who are

(31:00):
older who are aging, and people say, what have they
done to their face? And it's because we are not
accustomed to seeing what natural aging looks like at all,
and it is weird to us. And when we do
see someone who doesn't have makeup on, who has quote
unquote embraced their aging. I think of Pamela Anderson recently.
We're like, oh my god, it's so amazing to see

(31:21):
someone embrace aging and be this beautiful aging woman. But
I'm like, Pamela Anderson is the exception to this rule.
She looks so young for her age.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
She's also had a lot of work to done.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
She's had a lot of work, and she looks flawless
as an aging woman, and we like celebrate the idea
that she would be accepting of her aging. We would
never celebrate someone who looks the age that they are
and is a normal aging woman.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
That's kind of the fine line that I walk, and
I understand that they could be a little bit of
conflicting values here. On one hand, I'm like, get whatever
the hell you want done to yourself, Like, if it
makes you feel better, all power to you, that's fine.
I also acknowledge that the beauty standards that we are
expected to live up to are because youth in women
is valued, and so there is a part of me

(32:08):
that understands there's a little bit of hypocrisy there where
it's like, why you actually getting it done? Like for me,
I initially got botox because I had a line down
the middle of my forehead that I used to call
my what the fuck line because I would go what
the fuck too much and people would come up to
me and be.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Like, stop wowing, angry, stop.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Browning, and I was like, I'm not browning. Like I
felt so much better after getting that sorted, you know
when I use the words very deliberately, like I got
it fixed, and I liked it a lot more because
people stopped making comments about me looking like I was angry.
I don't know, like it's this weird juxtaposition. I guess
where I understand that the reason I want to look

(32:45):
a certain way is very heavily influenced because of beauty
standards across magazines when we were growing up. Now it's
on social media, but also like I'm allowed to do
what I want to my face and if I dm
myself to be more beautiful by getting something done, then like,
what's the problem with that? But it's a bit of
a conflict in my own brain.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, I totally agree with you, and I do think
that we're at a point now.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Where it is not a big deal.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
It is the exception to not get things done once
you reach a certain age. I would say not necessarily everywhere,
but depending on where you live, depending on your friendship circles,
it is the exception. But I do think that there
still requires a higher level of transparency in those conversations.
But it flirts with this really dangerous space between promotion
and transparency. And I don't want to be in a

(33:32):
world And I say this because like having two little
girls where the norm is to promote that everyone should
be getting botox and filler and stuff. So I do
think it is important to have people who we look
up to. And maybe that's why mea Friedman got so
much backlash, because I do think it is important to
have people who do buck the trends, who are proud
and able to do that. But I think it puts

(33:53):
a lot of pressure on those people to maintain that standard.
Then that's why I say, you know, for me, it's
interesting that I feel like I've gotten to this where
I don't want to at the moment, but I would
never want to be put into the position where I'm
expected to be held to that beauty standard for forever,
because I don't know how I'm gonna feel about my
face when I'm in my forties or when I'm in
my fifties.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
And then the other examples.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
I think of a people like Trinny Woodle, who we
had on the podcast recently, who's in her sixties. She
looks incredible, like unbelievably incredible. She is so hot in
age defying, and we hold her up as this incredible
success of what is achievable when you hit a certain
age as a woman, And I'm like, yes, And her
beauty is unparalleled because she doesn't look like a sixty.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Year old woman.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
So we celebrate her for the way she looks at sixty,
But what we're actually celebrating is her incredible, unattainable youth
that she's managed to maintain at sixty. And that's what
I think adds to her allure for a lot of people.
Do you know what I love about her?

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Though? And I saw these videos on social media years ago.
She is the first to go, yes, I have a
skincare line, and yes I have a makeup line.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I've had botox, like she doesn't. I have a real problem.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
At the moment with Jennifer Oper's because she's in the
fifties and she has a skincare line, and there's been
multiple reports of her being like, I haven't heard anything done.
It's from using these products that I look.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
The way that I do.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
And I look at her and I'm like, either you
are the most genetically blessed person or you're lying. And
I don't have so much of a problem with people
keeping it private, but when it comes to financially profiting
off of it, that's where I get really really mad.
That's where I'm like, you're deceiving people because you want
someone to look at you and go, oh, well, maybe

(35:36):
if I buy all of this skincare range, if I
spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this skincare range,
I'm going to look like that. Because she's saying that
that's all she's done. I think that that's really deceptive.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, And I also think like in terms of like
you sharing where you're at with getting your lip filler dissolved,
and then whether you do decide to get it refilled
or not. I also think it's really important to have
those conversations because you have gotten to a point where
esthetically you no longer like the thing that.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
You had done to yourself.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Like you looked at yourself in the mirror and you
were like, this was fine, fine, fine, until I got
to a point where I no longer like the cosmetic
enhancements that I've made to my face. If you followed
mass you might remember this guy. His name is Liam Cooper.
I mean, he was brilliant on the show, and he
was the first bisexual contestant matched with her female and
that's kind of how their season played out. He was

(36:29):
very and has been very open on his social media
over the past couple of years around getting filler and
then going through this procedure of getting fat injections, which
I have seen this online, like this idea that fat
injections they kind of graph fat from areas of your
body and then they injected into your face and it
works like filler, except it's meant to be more natural,
more long lasting because.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
It is your actual body being used to.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Fill out areas rather than it being a foreign material,
if that makes sense. Now, Originally, in like August of
twenty twenty two, when he first was getting this done
and was really transparent about the procedures, he was talking
about how it was such an effective and natural long
term treatment option, and I would don't want to go
so far as saying promoting it, but it was very

(37:13):
much an open discussion around the things that he was
getting done. And now just recently, and I think this
article came out in October, there was an article that
was published on Daily Mail and he was talking about
how much he had regretted having that procedure done. He
regretted the effects that it had had on his face,
how it had made him self conscious.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
He didn't like the aftermath and the changes that it
had had.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
And I guess the issue is is that there's this
year period there where people see the conversation around getting
these procedures, but we don't always have the after care
or the after conversation around the things that people do
or don't like. We often hear the success stories, we
don't often hear the stories around when people get cosmetic
procedures and they go on to regret them. And I

(37:57):
think that that is really important because I I would
say that the regret happens far more than what we
talk about. And I don't just mean regret in terms
of it not looking the way in which we thought,
but in the way that you experienced Keisha, like there
was a mistake in terms of how the filler had
been placed, and your interpretation of this is like, oh, well,
I don't dislike lip filler, but this practitioner didn't do

(38:20):
a great job and there was an error that was made.
I had a similar thing that happened to me seven
years ago the very first time I ever had filler,
and that was I had botox in my jaw, filler
in my upper cheeks, and it completely changed my face.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
I hated the way I looked when I had it done.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Hated it, But it took me years to talk about
how I'd had that done, and then I hated it.
And so I guess we often hear about the positive
impacts of what cosmetic procedures have and how it can
make you look more beautiful, but we do not hear
about the side effects enough, and we do not hear
about people who have gone on to regret bits and
pieces of the things that they have had tweaked.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, and also we don't talk about how expensive it
is to rectify. Like, I'm annoyed.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
This is six hundred dollars for me to get this
shit zolved.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
And I'm like, I sorry, I paid to get it
put in there, and now I've got to pay to
get it back out. And then if I choose to
get it put back because now I'm a lips is
probably gonna look saggy. I'm a bit annoyed about the.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Cost of it.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
The way I see the whole cosmetic injectibles and you know,
procedures that are less permanent than surgery like a rhinoplasty
or a face lift or whatever. To me, I see
it in a really similar way to how I see
I've had invisil line, or like a version of invisil line,
or my teeth because I didn't like that my teeth
went straight and so I got entaightened. I have not

(39:36):
my natural hair color like I have bleached hair. I
personally feel like cosmetic procedures are just another thing that's
been added to the menu. I understand what you mean
by like, there's this fine line between promotion and transparency
about it. And I would never want someone to listen
to this and be like, oh, well, you know, Keisha
said that she got lip fillers and she felt heaps better,
So I have to go out and get this appointment.

(39:58):
If it's been something that you've been thinking about doing,
the only thing that I would now say is make
sure you go to a really good person, because I've
had to pay to fix it, and I don't know
what that's going to look like.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, And I think when we do kind of talk
about this fine line between promotion and transparency, I don't
so much care about how adults interact with the way
they look. I don't care if you are someone who's
in their twenties or their thirties and you want to
go and get filler and botox and everything else.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
I don't think that that's an issue.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Like, you have agency, you should be old enough and
silly enough to make up your own decisions about everything
to do with your body. But I do care about
the accessibility of it on Instagram and social media and
how unfiltered it is, and how it is becoming the
norm to have these before and after transformations. And I
say that because of the amount of young girls who

(40:46):
now interact with social media and there is no filter.
So for the next generation of people who are coming up,
for our kids, it is normal for them. They are
going to grow up in a world where their expectation
is if they don't like something about themselves, they can
change it. But the only reason why they're going to
grow up not liking those things about themselves is because
society tells them that they're not attractive and that they

(41:08):
should change them And I think we don't even yet
realize what it is as parents to really young kids
we're going to be fighting against when they're in their teens,
Like when when Marley and Lola are fourteen, fifteen, sixteen,
they are dealing with a world of cosmetic visibility that
we never ever experienced, and it has happened and evolved

(41:30):
so quickly that I don't know how you instill in
young people that they're beautiful and they don't need to
have things done when everyone seems to be doing it online.
On Saturday, it was Matt and my one year wedding anniversary,
which I wrote this on Instagram. But I don't understand
how something can feel so recent and so far away

(41:51):
all at the same time, like it feels as though
we just got married, but then it also feels like
it's been fifteen years in between.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
I feel like it was so much more a year ago.
And I'm not the one in the relationship.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
You were the one who got very drunk at the party, though,
so you should know, Okay, I will not have you
pointing the finger at me.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
I was dancing on that dance floor like it was
my last day on Earth. Brilliant.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Well, the reason why we wanted to talk about this
is not because they wanted to take a walk down
memory lane, but it was because I was at dinner
with Matt. We had this really really lovely date night,
which have been very few and far between recently because
of all of the workload, especially around live shows. Like
I think that we have had such minimal quality time
as a couple, and we had one of those moments

(42:36):
where you sit at dinner across from your partner after
having quite a lot of time feeling separated, and I
was like, oh, this is why we love each other.
And that sounds so bad, but I feel like there's
going to be so many people in long term relationships
who had these moments like we had this really beautiful
dinner and I was like, Fox, see, this is why
we love each other so much, because we're great together.

(43:00):
But sometimes when you're in a long term relationship and
you have spent every day prioritizing other things, that intensity
is not there. And it's definitely not something that can
be there all the time, but you almost have to
have and carve out those moments so that you can go, oh, yes, priorities, Oh.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
No, no, no, no, you we had such a beautiful dinner.
We had such a beautiful moment.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
But like in the last couple of weeks, and this
might be an overshare and I haven't checked with Matt
if he's okay with me sharing this. Yeah, you could
check this. Check with this before I get myself into
more trouble. It's so interesting to me how we could
have gone from our wedding day, which felt like we
were the most connected that we've ever been, and in
the months after that to one year down the track

(43:44):
and feeling because of all the other pressures of life,
because of parenting and work taking huge amounts of priority
in the last couple of months, that we were quite disconnected.
And I know I've spoken about it before on the
podcast that I was having moments with Matt where they're
still so good. So I don't want anyone to take
this in the wrong way, but you can feel that

(44:05):
love has different intensities. You can feel so in love
with your partner and then you can feel quite disconnected
from your partner. And I think we have gone through
a few weeks, if not a couple of months, where
we have felt a lot more disconnected, and it is
recognizing that you have to really carve out those moments
like our date night on our anniversary, where you're like,

(44:27):
this is the reason why we love each other.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
I think it's only natural to assume that in any
relationship there's going to be ebbs and flows. There's going
to be waves where things are fucking brilliant, and there's
going to be ways where they're just a little bit
more work than what they are at other times. Of
a second, I think there would not be a person
listening to this who has been in a long term
relationship who would not be like, oh, yeah, I know
exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Especially when you have kids in the dynamic.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
And I don't say that it doesn't exist for all relationships,
but I definitely think when you have the added layer
of two small humans who require so much of you,
it's so easy to deprioritize the relationship with your partner,
to prioritize all those other things that demand immediate attention,
because you know that you can always come back to
your relationship. You know that that's like, well, you think

(45:11):
it's always going to be there, you know.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
I was actually reading something that was completely about this
yesterday on Psychology Today, and it was about this thing
called the intimacy paradox. And I know that Esther Perell.
She spoke about it briefly on the podcast on the
episode that she did with You and Briant, but she
also wrote about it in her book Mating in Captivity
a lot, And it's basically this idea, and I'm paraphrasing

(45:33):
a lot, so don't quote me here. Where is this
comparison between the hot, spicy, mysterious fun that you can
have with someone that you don't know very well, and
then on this scale, on the opposite end of the scale,
there is the closeness, the stability, the reliability of a

(45:54):
long term partner of someone who knows you really, really,
really well, and.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
It's like those things are not cong It's like you
can't have or you can, but it's so challenging to
have both at the same time, to have especially in
long term relationships where you know someone intimately, and with
knowing someone intimately comes the security, it comes, the stability,
it comes the comfort. It's so hard to keep this

(46:18):
intense desire because on one hand, like love is having
and desire is wanting, and so they are two different
things totally.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
She speaks about it where she says increased closeness in
a relationship coexists with a lack of intimacy. The part
of this intimacy paradox that Esther kind of writes about
and she gives advice on it, and essentially her advice
I receive it in a nutshell as like, the way
to keep the spiciness in your relationship is to keep
a little bit of psychological distance, to not completely fuse

(46:51):
yourself with your partner. And I interpret that in multiple ways,
and I go, Okay, does that mean that you have
your own things that you like doing in your life
that are separate to your partner, which I think I
personally feel is very important, But does it also mean
that you have to keep a certain amount of allure
and like you keep them on their toes because that's
what's going to create this everlasting desire for each other,

(47:15):
this kind of hot connection.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
To me, that implies that.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
You're not completely giving yourself to your partner, and like,
are you able to have that mystery but also tell
your partner the things that really are the darker parts
of your personality that maybe you don't like, and you
share your vulnerabilities, Like.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Is it possible to have both?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Because esther kind of encourages that that's what you need
to do to maintain that intimacy. But I see it
a little bit more personally as black or white.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Well, I guess the thing though, is is like I mean,
I like this idea of having to keep some sort
of autonomy in a relationship because once you become I
don't think everybody has probably experienced this in a relationship before, Like,
once you become completely entangled in each other, you're spending
every waking day together, You're spending every moment you're like
entangled in each other's lives. It's like almost sometimes you

(48:06):
get to a point where you're like, well, what are
we going to talk about because we know everything about
each other, Like when you sit down at dinner, like,
what is they're left to discuss if you've already discussed
everything all day every day. But then on the flip
side of that, there does come a point where when
there's so much autonomy that you feel disconnected. And I
guess for Matt and I, that's where I have been struggling.

(48:26):
And that's been my fault because all of the other
aspects of our life have required so much of us
that there has been too much autonomy, that there has
been too much work taking priority, kids taking priority, friendship
groups taking priority, and then you're not connected enough because
you're over compensating in other areas of your life. And
it's like finding that balance between where does autonomy sit

(48:50):
so that you can be yourself in a relationship, but
so that you're still able and willing to be completely
connected so that when good things happen in your life,
the person you want to tell is your partner. That's
the first person that you're thinking of telling these things to,
rather than it being like, oh, I've got to you know,
that's right, I've got to tick these boxes today.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Yeah, I think I like, I look at it in
my own life, and I think certain boundaries that I
like to have, Like I don't like the whole toilet
behavior in front of each other.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Like to me, I'm like, babe, keep the romance alife.
I don't need to see you sitting there on the
toilet shitting. It's just not hot to me. Like you
might get there in seven years time. You never know,
you never do, but like never say never. If he
was unwell, the walls come down with because I want
to be that reliable, stable support to you. And so
I guess I don't know like the whole idea of this,

(49:40):
I understand where it comes from. And I think I've
gone through periods in my life where if it was
a binary thing, and if it was like do you
want the hot, steamy I don't know you, you don't
know me.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
We don't have to exchange baggage.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
This is fun that, this is desirable, it's intimate, it's
full spice, right, do you want that? And I've gone
through periods of time where I have wanted that more
than what I have wanted a companion who is constant,
who is reliable, who is safe, who makes me feel
like I can disclose everything too. I don't know if
this is just me personally, but to me, it is

(50:15):
a bit more binary. I don't know how much you
can have a bit of both in a long term relationship.
And I've gone through periods of my life where I've
preferenced one over the other, and right now the period
that I'm in, I would preference the stability, the reliability
over the spicy sex. I think you can have both, yes,

(50:37):
but I don't think you can have both all the time.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
That's the difference.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
I don't think that you necessarily have to forfeit having
desire and spicy sex because you're in a long term
relationship that's stable and committed. But I think it is,
And I guess that this is why I don't have
these conversations with guilt or with fear around my relationship.
Like I'm not saying this about where Matt and I
are at because I'm like worried we're going to break
up like that. I would hate for anybody to think

(51:00):
that that is the what I'm implying by these conversations.
What I'm saying is that desire in terms of like
I want to rip your clothes off. You are a
fucking sexy god, and I do think that my husband
is a sexy god. It is not a sustainable, one
hundred percent of the time thing to feel like that.
And I think you have to be okay in a
long term relationship to go through periods where there is

(51:21):
a little bit of spiciness, boredom almost, you know what
I mean, where you still have the consistency, the compatibility,
the love, the affection, all the things that make you
feel comfortable and stable in a relationship, but the desire
and the like spikes of wanting to you know, fuck
their brains out have ebbs and flows, and for me
that is definitely the case. Like, and I know there's

(51:42):
been many jokes over the years around us having missionary
sex for very short amounts of time, but like, we
have that desire way more than that, but it's just
not stable. It comes and we might have like a
really good week or a really good fortnite, and then
we have a really shitty fortnite because all these other
press she's in our life require stuff from us. And

(52:02):
I think it's being okay with that and understanding that
all of these things have ebbs and flows in long
term relationships. I also really and I know that we've
kind of leaned on Esther Perell's teachings a little bit
for this, but it's something that I always think about.
We went to her talk that she did when she
came to Australia. She did these talks all around the
country and it was very broad and I think for

(52:22):
anybody who follows her work going and seeing her talk
it was quite interesting because you could tell she had
to kind of cater a little bit to everyone there,
and that's really hard when you were talking about relationships.
And we find it a struggle sometimes on this podcast
because there's people listening to this who are in long
term relationships who have experienced the ebbs and flows of
desire intensity. But then there are people who are just

(52:44):
newly in a relationship and they can't even comprehend ever
not feeling that sort of like oh for their partner.
And I say this in terms of Brit, Like where
BRIT's at with Ben at the moment, she has this
constant desire because she's doing long distance, she has this
is constant adrenaline rush and excitement around her relationship. I
don't relate to that because I'm seven years deep with

(53:06):
two kids, I don't have the adrenaline rush that I
get from a relationship. I get the consistency and the comfort.
It's like catering to different people. But one thing that
Esther Perel said at this talk that we went to
that really resonated with me, and I think coming from
a broken household in terms of my parents not being
together and them that autonomy void becoming so big that

(53:27):
they couldn't repair the relationship. She said, everyone always says
that they love their children, and everyone always says that
their children are the most important thing to them. But
often what we do is we neglect healthy relationships because
we're so busy, you know. And when I say healthy relationships,
I really want to preface. I understand that there are
people who have walked away from toxic relationships, have left

(53:49):
relationships that no longer serve them. That is powerful and important.
So please don't think that I'm like conflating the two.
What I'm talking about are relationships that are good, healthy
relationships that break down over time because of relationship boredom,
because of dissatisfaction, because of growing apart and not growing together,
and what Esther Perel said is if you love your children,

(54:11):
the best thing that you can do for them is
take care of your relationship and prioritize the love that
you have for your partner. And the reason for that
is is because you are the most important role models
for what healthy love looks like, and so making sure
that that is always their priority over work and over
all the other things that can take precedence is so

(54:31):
important for imprinting on your.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Kids what love looks like.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
And I always think about that when I have these
moments where Matt and I feel like we're drifting apart.
I always think, like, no, we need to put us
back at the top of the pile. And sometimes putting
us at the top of the pile means above the kids,
prioritizing the relationship above our relationship with our children, because
if we don't do that, in ten years time, we
might not have a relationship. And that's kind of something

(54:57):
I always come back to in these moments of like,
oh my god, we just.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Had a beautiful dinner. We love each other, blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
It's like making sure that you really carve those time
and those moments out for each.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Other that sounds like a lot of pressure. Yeah, I
think it's a Michelle Obama who was quoted saying like,
you can have it all, but you can't have it
all at the one time. I guess I look at
this in a bit of a different way. I don't
look at the intimacy paradox as dependent on the relationship
I'm in. I looked at it and I read it
as in depending on the stage of life that I've
felt personally that I'm in, Like there's been different times

(55:28):
where I've craved one side of the scale more than
the other. But hearing you say that again, I feel
like this I've just really flopped around this entire episode
where I'm like my opinions, it's so contrasting. But to me,
it sounds like having to put desire in your relationship
as a priority. That can also be a pressure that

(55:50):
like at times if you're in a period of your life,
well you are absolutely hustling so hard with work. Your
kids could be, you know, not sleeping, they could be
going through learning difficulties. Like there's just an arrangement of yes, variables.
Here is this craving of hot, spicy intimacy? Is it
just another thing that we are putting on the plate
as like a pressure that we also have to think

(56:12):
about totally.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
But I do sometimes think about when it comes to
and I'm talking purely about sex. I almost think sometimes
the less you have it, the less you want it, right,
and so the longer you go without doing it, the
more comfortable you are with like never wanting to have sex.
And I know for myself, like, if I've hit that
two week mark of not having sex, I fucking could
I could probably have not had sex the rest of

(56:34):
my life.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
I'm not even joking. I'm not even joking.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
It's so true.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
But I obviously know it's something that's really important to
our relationship, and it's really important to Matt, and he
does not feel that way right, Like I am certain,
but I sometimes think that actions precede our feelings. And
I say this, and I would never want someone to
be like, oh, well, Laurus, that I have to have
sex even when I don't want to. But what I
mean is is, like think about exercise, for example, how

(57:00):
many times can you not be fucking bothered to get
up off the couch and go for that run because
it's just easier to not do it.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Right.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Every day, every time I need to exercise, I would
rather not exercise until I'm halfway through the exercise and
I feel really good about it, right. And I hate
that sometimes I have that impression around sex that I'm like,
I can't be bothered, but I know that I'm gonna
love it. And I read something recently and it was
I might have been an article that was written which
was like, you should never be in a relationship if

(57:29):
you have to like will yourself to have sex with
the other person. And I might know yes, and I
might have hormones and they constitute.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
My desire a lot.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
I'm not saying have sex with someone who you have
a deep ick for that you don't want to have
sex with. I'm saying that if you recognize in yourself
that your sex drive is not high, but actually you
know that you enjoy it, that you love your partner,
and that it's something that you will enjoy in the
same way that you do If you go and do
a yoga session that you couldn't be fucking bothered to
do at the start of it, then that's an indication

(58:00):
that it's not that you don't have any sex drive,
it's that you just have to work a bit harder
to maintain desire in your relationship. And relationships are not
going to make themselves work. We have to put in
that effort and that is what is going to stabilize
a long term relationship. And I think it's so easy.
It is so easy to neglect the thing that feels

(58:23):
like it will always be there. But the reality is
is that if you neglect something for long enough, it
will not be there in the future because too much damage,
too much of this autonomy happens, and you become a
couple that grows apart. And I guess for me, it's
something that I am being really conscious about because that
would be such a failure in my eyes, is to

(58:43):
have grown apart from someone who I deeply love because
I didn't prioritize our relationship.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Oh. In this article in the show notes that started
this whole conversation about this intimacy paradox, and it was
titled three Ways to fix marriage boredom, and they posed
three questions and one was you playing too safe. Various
studies have said that not meeting the partner's psychological needs
for novelty and variety can be a real thing that

(59:09):
leads to boredom, which makes sense. If you're doing the
same thing over and over and over again, you're probably
gonna get bored.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Totally missionary seven minutes, bam, thank you, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Also, sometimes you can get into a routine with your
partner where you're like, I know exactly what I need
to do to get you off in the quickest amount
of time, and you don't have a lot of spontaneity
and fun in that sort of play.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
I also think that there's a pressure from men who
want to please their partners that if there is a
certain way that you get off.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
I don't speaking personally.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
I know that he's like, I want to make sure
that we do that so that you get off first,
and so they can become like a bit of like
a routine.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Yeah, I think everyone.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
I think everyone who's in a long term relationship when
it comes to sex has like a routine. Whether it's
like we start at missionary, then he goes down on
me for a little bit, or you know, there is
literally everybody has like a step by step playbook for
how they have sex, and sometimes it's hard to step
outside of that.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Yeah, especially if something works totally don't fix it if
orgasm is the goal. The second question I asked was
are you avoiding the problem? And that kind of pertained
to when you have a problem in your relationship that
you just consistently sweep under the rug. They say that
that can make things feel very boring if you're not
addressing the problem. And then the third question they asked

(01:00:18):
was are you taking a partner for granted, which is
kind of what you were just talking about where you
said when you know that someone is going to be
there for you, when you know, you know, especially for
you guys you're married, like you know that he's got
your back, And that is what I crave deeply in
a relationship, and I feel like I have it now.
I feel like I have that person that has got
my back that I can turn to and I can
be vulnerable and I can be honest. And I have

(01:00:39):
felt a shift away from what I felt when I
was single, where I did have this real intense desire
because now I have something that right now in my
life I value more like I value that got your
backness more. Yeah, And I think that's the thing that
I will over time potentially fall into trouble with because
I do have a bit of a pattern of eventually

(01:01:02):
taking people for granted and not really recognizing how good
they can be to me over time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
I think that that's something that so many people struggle
with because we always take the people who are closest
to us. And I shouldn't say we always take them
for granted, but we always assume that they will always
be there. And sometimes for the people who are the
closest to us in our life, we can be on
the worst behavior with because we know that they'll accept us.
But at the same time, what damage does that do
to your long term relationship? And how do you expect

(01:01:30):
to have desire and how do you expect to have
this spontaneity and this like sexy drive if you are
not necessarily on your and I don't want to say
best behavior, but like think about the version of yourself
that you give when you're dating versus the version of
yourself that you give when.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
You're in a long term relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
And it comes down to those small things like turning
to your phone the very first second you wake up.
You would never do that in early stages of dating,
but a lot of us do it in long term relationships.
It's sitting on the couch and neglecting your pa next
conversation to you know, answer more emails. It's all about deprioritizing,
I think, and that's what happens when you do take
your partner for granted. You deprioritize the relationship for everything

(01:02:11):
else that's screaming at you in terms of demands. And
I think it's something that I know I can be
more conscious of. And I'm sure that there's so many
other people who are in long term relationships who do
have these date night moments. And I guess if you
ever have experienced this where you're like, oh my god,
this is why we love each other so much, that's
a reflection of maybe in other moments, taking the relationship

(01:02:34):
a little bit for granted. All Right, you guys know
that we never finished an episode without our suck and
our sweet, our highlight and our low light. Keisha, little Petitt,
what is your suck? Little my suck?

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
For the week that honestly, I know that we've banged
on about it at start. It's long COVID. That's not
long COVID. It's just longer than I expected it to be.
And I'm just feeling physically a bit shit. Like you
did very good for someone who's feeling under the weather.
But I just feel like I don't feel I don't
feel as sick as what I do, that's for sure,
But I'm just feeling like the effects of this are

(01:03:11):
lasting long. The brain fog is away longer than what
I predicted. I thought it would be like as soon
as my throat came back, as soon as the body
aches went away, I'd be back to tiptop shakes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Oh no, I'm living on painkillers and nasal spray. That's
where I'm at. That's that's my daily rotation.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Shares and I be broken now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Oh yeah, So that's probably my stuff for the week.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
My sweep for the week is that come Friday, I
text Britt and I was like, Yo, you've been a
bit selfish lately and you've really withheld Delilah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Give me some d time. I miss her.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
I feel like we haven't had any quality time together
for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
So I stole her for two nights. That's so nice.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Britt had an event on and she was like, yeah,
you can hang with her tonight, no problem, And so
I took her on Friday and we hung out together
and then we went for multiple swims on Saturday together.
She came along to all of my little catch ups
with my friends. I saw you guys going to the markets,
running to the girls, and I then kept her for
the whole of the next night as well. And yesterday

(01:04:14):
Tabalaen and I took her to the beach and it
was just.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Like little family time. It was the best. I just
missed her so much.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
I'm really a dog person, if that wasn't obvious, and
sometimes I just forget how much joy dogs can bring you,
and I just I had the greatest I really refilled
my cuss.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
That's so nice.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Okay, Well, my suck for the week was And I
mean I'm parroting what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
I honestly feel the same. Keys.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
I feel like it's just this after lag of being sick,
and I think anyone who has kind of gotten this
new wave of fucking COVID might know what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
But it is messed up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
And then for me more so, it's been the catch
up of trying to because I had a week off
work from being not well. It's been that that work
doesn't just get done by anyone else. It's just trying
to get it done. No, but you know what, Matt
and I have this We've got on Thursday, We're going
to buyron for a couple of days with the kids,
which is kind of our anniversary treat.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
So I've got that to look forward to.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
So I really, I genuinely feel like I don't have
much of a suck this week, so I don't want
to harbor on their annoyance of being a bit unwell,
my sweet for the week is, and I guess it
kind of flows on for everything that we've just talked about.
I am so grateful for the awesome time that I've
had with Matt over the weekend. We had truly just
the most beautiful couple of days. We had such an
amazing night together on Friday night when we went out

(01:05:30):
for dinner for our anniversary. I spent some beautiful time
with the girls. We got to see some girlfriends who
have just recently had a baby, and one of my
closest friends. We had breakfast with them on Saturday morning.
Sunday morning, I can remember the day but now, but
like I felt like this weekend was just such a
cup filling weekend of family time and of focusing on
like the most important priorities in my life, and that

(01:05:53):
was just the best reward after a crazy month of
live shows and everything else. So I feel amazing coming
in today.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Do you know why I think we're both doubly feeling
the exact same thing is because we expected that after
the live shows, because we were working flack Dogs that month.
I expected that once the live show finished, I would
have that social time again.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
But because we were so rob Oh, guys, So that
is it from us today, and if you have loved
the episode, please share it with a friend or jump
on leave a review for us.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
We would so greatly love that. Also, really nice.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Kisha because she's here and giving us.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Her very valuable time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
And we'll put links in the show notes today from
the article that we were discussing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
And that's it from us, guys. You know the drill, tell.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
Your mom, tell you Dad, tell you Dot, tell your friends,
and shared love because we love love

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
W

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The fine line when it comes to injectables, and the intimacy paradox.

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