August 11, 2025 • 40 mins
What happens when rock and roll rebellion meets spiritual awakening?
Drummer Clementine Moss reveals her remarkable journey of merging two seemingly opposite worlds — pounding Led Zeppelin drum solos by night and guiding others as a Buddhist spiritual counselor by day.
As the powerhouse drummer for Zepperella, Clementine channels John Bonham’s thunderous energy on stage. Offstage, she helps others navigate their inner landscapes and heal. In this soul-opening conversation, she shares how drumming became not just performance — but a practice of presence, worthiness, and self-acceptance.
Clementine reflects on a pivotal moment during a solo when applause no longer fed her ego, but revealed a deeper truth about collective celebration. She candidly discusses the layers of shame she shed through meditation and the liberating realization that worthiness was never something to earn — it already lived within her.
From confronting fear to releasing ambition, Clementine invites us to consider:
✨ What if I am exactly perfect right now?
✨ What if I don’t need to be healed?
This episode is for anyone navigating self-worth, healing, and the intersection of art and spirituality. Clementine’s story reminds us: true freedom comes when we integrate all parts of ourselves and return home to our wholeness.
🎧 Listen now and reconnect to your inner rhythm.
Find Clementine here: www.clemthegreat.com
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Music:
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Misdirection ...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
NatNat (00:00):
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break
mental health stigmas throughconversations.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and wedive into topics about trauma
and how it impacts the nervoussystem.
Yet we don't just leave youthere.
We share insights and tools ofself-care, meditation and growth
(00:21):
that help you be curious aboutyour own biology.
Your presence matters.
Please like and subscribe toour podcast.
Help our community grow.
Let's get into this.
Oh, and please remember to bekind to yourself.
Clementine Moss (00:36):
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast.
I'm your host, Nat Nat, andtoday we are going to go into
rock and roll and spiritualityand some of you might be like
how do those two go hand in hand?
Yet we're going to hear fromClementine Moss and she's going
to explain how she thought theywere something of separation,
(00:58):
yet she learned the integrationof blending it all together.
So, Clementine, can youintroduce yourself to myself and
the listeners and let us know alittle bit about yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, I will.
Thank you so much again forhaving me here.
So I'm Clementine.
I'm a rock and roll drummer.
The project that I make myliving with is playing John
Bonham's drum parts, ledZeppelin's drum parts in a band
(01:28):
named Zepperella.
I also am a spiritual counselorand I work in several different
modalities, mostly Buddhistbased, and I'm also a writer I
wrote a book about a year and ahalf two years ago.
It came out and also asongwriter, singer, create my
(01:52):
own music as well.
So I have a lot of ovens in thefire.
I'm in San Francisco and Ithink that's pretty much me,
yeah.
Clementine Moss (02:02):
So, before we dive in, would you be willing to
do a mindful moment with me sowe can ground?
oh yeah yeah, I love it and forthe listeners as you always hear
, safety first.
Please don't close your eyes.
If you're driving or needingyour visual yet you're able to
follow the other prompts.
So, clementine, I'll ask you toget comfortable in your seating
(02:24):
and, if it's safe to do so,gently close your eyes and
you're going to begin breathingin and out through your nose and
you're going to bring yourawareness to watching your
breath.
You're not going to try andcontrol your breath, you're just
going to be aware of itsnatural state, allowing it to
(02:44):
guide you into your body.
There may be some sensations orfeelings coming up, and that's
okay.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go,surrender the need to control,
(03:05):
release the need to resist andjust be, be with your breath,
drop deeper into your body.
Now.
There may be some thoughts orto-do lists that have popped up.
That's okay.
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
(03:36):
space between the awareness andthe thoughts and dropping deeper
into the body, being in thespace of presence, in the space
of presence, in the space ofbeing.
Again, more thoughts may havepopped up.
(03:57):
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
even more space between theawareness and the thoughts and
completely surrendering in thebody being, in the presence, in
the being now coming back intothe senses, into this present
(04:37):
moment, fully in the body, atyour own time and at your own
pace.
You're going to gently open youreyes while staying with your
breath.
How is your heart doing?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
My heart is always good.
It always, you know.
There's always a longing toopen it further.
You know, I feel like that's alot of my practice these days is
learning how to be open-heartedin all situations, not defense.
Clementine Moss (05:13):
I call that warrior work.
That nervous system is in fightor flight and wanting to
protect it's allowing thatdisarmament and softening the
body and opening up the heart.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
it's easier said than done, though it's really it's
learning to sit inuncomfortability, and you know
we've been trained in so manyways to run away from anything
that's uncomfortable and, um,yeah, nothing like meditation to
teach you how to just sit inthe uncomfortable.
Yeah, I think that's thepurpose, right?
(05:50):
Yeah?
Clementine Moss (05:51):
yeah.
What has drumming um taught youabout presence, both in music
and in life, and how has thatpresence become your spiritual
practice?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Well, you know, meditation and drumming kind of
came into my life around thesame time, at least, you know,
for meditation it was my focusreally started to kind of zero
in on it, on regular practice,around the time that I took up
drumming, which was in my late20s, and I didn't understand.
(06:24):
You know, from the time that Itook up drumming, which was in
my late 20s, and I didn'tunderstand, you know, from the
time that I took my first drumlesson, I was just called to
drumming.
I really, you know every otherinstrument I'd ever played, it
was always a chore to practice.
But when I came home the drumswere there.
It was like what I wanted to do.
When I was in a room wheresomebody was playing drums, it's
(06:47):
like the world kind of fellaway and I was like osmosis.
You know, I felt like I was inthe state of constant learning
and a lot of my life made sensewhen I started playing drums,
like, oh yeah, that is how mymind works.
You know, that is how I seespace and time.
That is.
(07:07):
It just made so much sense tome.
So drumming was really cominginto myself and as someone who,
you know, in my young life hadstruggled so much and continued
to and still continues tosometimes struggle with a sense
of unworthiness.
You know, drumming is aboutpower especially.
(07:30):
You know any drumming, but inrock and roll drumming, you know
the, the drum voice, is crucialto how people perceive the
whole group.
So so there's a sense ofauthority that I started to come
into, that was in me already,that I didn't have to learn, but
that I started to understandhow to be in.
(07:53):
So, you know, coming toourselves, coming to the truth
of who we are and ourselves, Ithink is a big purpose of what
we call spirituality to findthat constant flame within us,
that unwavering flame within us.
(08:14):
And when I'm behind a drum set,I feel like I couldn't be in a
place where I felt morecomfortable and more myself.
It really feels like I'm, Istep right into myself and and
so in that sense, drumming hasbeen profound in my spiritual
(08:37):
life.
And now that I'm a spiritualcounselor and a shamanic
counselor and I use the drum forhealing, you know, when that
came into my life, I just lightbulbs went on like crazy for me,
like oh, this is actuallysomething that I'm connected to,
(08:58):
and even an even deeper waythan holding a beat, you know,
in a rock show, so yeah, drumsare.
I could go on and on about alove song to drumming.
And beat, you know, in a rockshow, so yeah, drums are.
I could go on and on about alove song to drumming and
actually my book, I feel like ina large part, is a love song to
drums.
Yeah.
Clementine Moss (09:13):
Yeah.
So a lot of people may notrealize this yet.
You know, performing for people, there's a lot of attention,
yet there's this energy flow,there's this interaction between
the audience and the musicians,the artists, and there's I
don't know if you would say thatthere's like a oneness in that
(09:37):
energy field and just being inthat collective collective.
Yet what a lot of people don'trealize is when you come off the
stage, that was like a reallybig high coming off into the
everyday mundane.
That can feel a little bitsplintered for some people.
I don't know if you've everexperienced that of being on the
(09:58):
highs and being on the lows,and if you had, how did you, you
know, collect all thosesplintered parts to make sure
that you were whole in all ofthe different dynamics of walks
of life?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I have watched that happen tomany people and have, you know,
(10:37):
experienced that in people I'veplayed with, and I think that a
lot of that is due to our theperform a mask that they come on
in stage, and it is a lot ofthat protection.
You know, when you'reperforming you really are, like
I said, just as close as you canto your truth, and that can be
extremely frightening to do infront of a lot of people.
(11:01):
And so I think people have away, performers have a way of
putting a mask on, and that maskis a mask of invincibility and
then when they get off stagethey are, they're invincible,
they're not invincible anymore.
And you know, then, in order tokeep like, they grab towards
(11:23):
that feeling that they had onstage of invincibility through
substances or through situationsin their life that maybe aren't
as good for them.
And I've never really felt thattoo much.
I think part of it is becauseI'm a drummer and so I'm kind of
naturally protected by a bunchof metal and wood in front of me
(11:45):
and the audience.
There's something funny that'shappened to me recently, which
is, you know, I had anexperience where, you know, in
the middle of my set I have totake a drum solo, right, which
is highly humiliating for mebecause it just spotlights for
me all of the ways that I'm nota good drummer.
But I have to do it and I haveto just give myself, throw
(12:08):
myself into it every night and,you know, I have to stand up and
take a bow, even if I feel likewhat I did was humiliating,
right, I have to pretend like itwas okay.
And I had an experiencerecently where I you know, the
(12:30):
solo and the crowd was soeffusive and as they were
clapping, I realized that Ididn't feel it.
I couldn't feel that energy ofappreciation coming at me and I
had this little question tomyself is it because I don't
feel worthy of it?
Because I think that's how Iused to feel, like I'm not
worthy of it and so like they'reclapping but they don't know,
(12:52):
like if they really knew thereal me, then they wouldn't be
clapping, right, if they reallyknew how bad I was, they
wouldn't be clapping.
But when I really examined itthis time, I realized it wasn't
that.
It was that the me that wouldabsorb appreciation.
She just wasn't there.
And what was there instead wasa feeling that it was one
(13:17):
appreciation that we were in,one appreciation that I had been
a tool used for, to create amoment of appreciation, and so
it wasn't about Clem, it wasabout the appreciation that we
were together in that roomcelebrating something happening
(13:38):
right, and that was really aprofound shift in my thinking
and also a realization.
Wow, I really have let go of alot of that, that egoness, you
know, and it'll never be gone.
Of course we always carry ourego with us and I can, you know,
I thought I was doing a littlethought experiment afterwards
(14:01):
and I said what, if nobodyclapped afterwards, would I have
felt that, you know?
And?
And I kind of went down thatroad and realized, yeah, of
course I have, you know, ego,but but it was something
different this time.
It was, and I think it was just, you know, that oneness that
you're talking about that backand forth, the drum sound goes
like I hit the drum and it goesout.
(14:22):
That sound goes into theaudience, it goes through
everybody's molecules and itcombines everybody and their
appreciation comes back into thenext hit and it's like this,
this circular thing.
So I'm a big fan of rock shows,of music shows, of of people
being in one room, forgettingall of the pettiness, and just
(14:42):
being in that one momenttogether, yeah, I want to ask um
in your younger years, wheredid you befriend anger?
Clementine Moss (14:53):
Did anger, did drumming, allow you to feel that
emotion more openly, or youdidn't.
There wasn't any relationshipwith anger.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, in my younger years, especially in the band
that I toured with reallyextensively.
It was the band was reallyheavy rock and um, I think that
we, um, that band was two otherwomen and we toured one year.
We did like over 300 shows thatyear.
(15:24):
So it was like every night in adifferent city, just the three
of us living in a car right,we're living in a van and I
think that, um, in that band itwas helpful to be fueled by
anger, fueled by frustration, bythe frustration of the day, by
the frustration of being in this, like you know, very masculine
(15:45):
world, you know, and maybefeeling like it was just this
constant, proving that wedeserve to be there.
That anger could come into itand um, and it suited the music,
um, and so I feel like, youknow, that was helpful for that
period.
And then at a certain point itshifted for me and I realized I
(16:07):
just had more stamina if Iplayed from joy, and I had more
stamina when I connected to thatum, that kind of infinite
battery of of, um, ofpeacefulness within me.
Um, then I felt like I couldplay forever and um, you know,
anger is a depletion, um, andjoy is uh, uh, it keeps going so
(16:32):
um.
So that was a big lesson at acertain point early in my career
.
Clementine Moss (16:38):
Yeah, because a lot of people may not realize
how much energy it takes fordrumming and how much drumming
holds the foundation of themusical group and the instrument
and keeping people in a certaintempo and, like you know, the
bass and other instruments doand the vocalist also, yet that
(17:00):
drumming is like the heartbeatand just really keeping the
tempo and the pace of theaudience.
So you know, physically it's anendurance, but also listening
to the collective, you know, ina spiritual way of what is the
beat that needs to be carriedhere, so that we can kind of be
in a trance of just being oneright now, not in our worries
(17:22):
and our to-do lists.
That it's a real meditativestate.
Does that resonate with you?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, it's funny because there's a saying in
music which is that you know youcan have a mediocre band and if
you have a great drummer itelevates the band.
If you have a great band but amediocre drummer, the band will
always be mediocre.
Right, because we have a subtleunderstanding of rhythm.
(17:53):
Every single person does,because we basically are a drum.
Right, our heart is a drum.
So we have a real intuitivesense of when something feels
right, and you know, for adrummer it's all about the space
between the hits.
Right, that we can feel likepeople.
(18:13):
We can feel like people aren'tsettled.
You know, we can feel likepeople are drifting, a drummer's
drifting in their awareness.
We can tell all these subtlethings about rhythm and so we
definitely know when it's right.
And and that takes a kind offocus and not focus, you know,
(18:33):
just like in meditation, wherewe're focusing very small in a
certain way, and yet we're alsoin that wider awareness and you
know, we can focus on the breathvery closely and then we can
focus on the bigger breathingthat's happening.
So it's kind of the same thing,yeah, yeah.
Clementine Moss (18:54):
So I want to ask you now you said that you
know you're a spiritual leaderand you counsel people With the
divine and human love.
How do you distinguish the twoand how do they collide with
each other?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Well, my outlook is that all things are made of love
.
That's my outlook.
The divine, whatever we want tocall it, consciousness, god, I
see it as a flow of love, thatat the base of all things is a
(19:34):
vibration of love.
And that's not love, theemotion, that's love in perfect
benevolence, perfectpeacefulness, perfect ease,
perfect I want to say adoration,I don't know.
That kind of brings in emotions.
(20:00):
It's kind of hard to talk aboutlove as an energy, right, that's
what I see it as an energy ofthat, the way that we see human
love, I think, is an emotion,and an emotion is tied to an
ego's preferences.
So, you know, I think true loveis and I'm not discounting that
(20:28):
I think we learn a lot oflessons in our emotions and our
relationships, our emotionalrelationships.
I think you know that's one ofthe best things about being
human is that we have thosethings and that we go through
all of those lessons.
But there are a lot of lessonsin them and you know, I like to
think of loving in that.
(20:49):
You know we were talking aboutbeing open, hearted in a
completely undefended way,hearted in a completely
undefended way, and undefendedmeans without fear.
And so jealousy is fear, angeris fear.
You know, control is fear.
And so if we have no fear, thenwe're allowed to love
(21:11):
unconditionally, freely andboundaried too.
Clementine Moss (21:14):
Because, too, because, you know, loving
another means we love ourselvesin that way as well, and we we
treat ourselves with the respectof, of boundary, without any
trauma around it yeah and I justwant to highlight for some of
the listeners, because you know,when they hear fear, then some
(21:35):
people want to do a little bitof spiritual bypassing and, you
know, evilizing the humanexperience, that nervous system
that gets ignited with fear.
And the reason why we will feelfear is because we don't feel
the safety.
And until we start programmingthe unknown, the uncertainty,
and having trust within, thereis a lot of igniting of those
(21:57):
protective emotions of, like yousaid, frustration and
insecurity.
It's again, you know, these arethe bodyguards of the fear that
doesn't feel safe.
To show the vulnerability thatI feel unsafe, that I feel that
I'm not able to be open in myrawness, in my openness, in my
(22:17):
naked truth, that it won't beharmed or hurt.
And sometimes, yeah, it's onthe outside.
Yet a lot of times it's our ownlittle inner critic that
chastises us.
You gave us a beautiful exampleof when drumming and the
applauding, and at one pointit'd be like, oh, self-loathing,
it's not good enough, it's notat the perfect way where
(22:38):
releasing that.
It's like, oh, I'm safe to beright here in this moment, not
with the doing or theperfectionist.
So there's that safety thatallows the fear to be diminished
.
I think sometimes just how I'mtrying to create language around
this.
It's always like love or fear,where it's like how do we
(22:59):
integrate the two and how do webetter understand what fear
really is so that we can meet itwith compassion and we can meet
it with the love?
Not I got to destroy it and getrid of it and berate it.
It's like well, it's still partof that humanness.
If we didn't have fear, ournervous system wouldn't be able
to function properly.
It would know don't you know,go into the fire, or it wouldn't
(23:22):
give us the cues that we needto have.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yet I think sometimes yeah, oh, no, no, I super
appreciate what you'recompletely right, that um, and
that I think that the fear, likefinding fear within ourselves,
um, it's is really related tothat journey within ourselves to
(23:45):
realize we are love, we aresafe, we are, um, that to have
the compassion and the self-loveto realize that there is
nothing here that can harm me.
There's nothing that can harmthat infinite flame, that
infinite light within us.
(24:06):
So really, it's not even somuch about battling fear, it's
about saying, oh, fear is here.
It's about saying, oh, fear ishere.
(24:40):
Let me fall deeper into thatknowing of myself as that
infinite flame, as that infinitelight, and realize that in that
light fear burns up, leaninginto the truth of us.
You know, I love to just stopand think what if I am exactly
perfect right now?
What if I don't need to bebetter?
What if I don't need to behealed?
What if everything that I'mlooking for is right here, right
now?
And it's almost as if a trapdoor falls out from underneath
me and I feel like I'm lookingfor is right here right now, and
it's almost as if a trap doorfalls out from underneath me and
I feel like I'm floating in air, like it feels so
(25:01):
discombobulating to think like,oh my gosh, what if I don't need
to do anything except to behere?
In this light, and for a while Iwas really kind of freaked out
by it.
I asked a spiritual counselor.
I said, you know, I feel likeI've lost all my ambition, right
(25:25):
, and you know, for us,especially as for me, as an
American and I'm sure there's alevel of this in Canada too it's
like the idea that likeambition is what we, you know,
it's like what our forwardmovement, right, and it's always
about ambition, about beingbetter, about like getting
somewhere else.
And um, and one day I realizedI just didn't have that anymore
(25:48):
and I realized how much I hadbeen propelled through my life
towards these random things thatyou know often were nebulous,
this feeling that I keep havingto go forward.
And when that was gone, I feltlike very, it was a very strange
feeling.
And this counselor said to meit's not that you've removed
(26:10):
ambition, it's that you'veremoved the goalposts and that
you're now what you're doing isyou're following your enthusiasm
, you're following where yourheart wants to go, where your
enthusiasm is telling you to go,and you no longer have this
random set of criteria thatyou're moving towards.
(26:33):
You're moving in every momentwith the intention of your heart
, and I think that's a great wayto look at it.
And to you know, let go of thefear of not being good enough,
not being enough.
Well, of course I'm enough.
My heart is telling me.
This is what excites me, this iswhat lights me up, this is what
(26:55):
makes me want to move into theworld, even if it's doing my
taxes.
You know, even if it'ssomething mundane, I can go with
enthusiasm because, oh, my God,it's going to feel so good to
get that done and I have theability to pay my taxes, and how
grateful I am, and you know allthose things that go along with
it.
So I'm not saying we have todrop, you know, our jobs and all
(27:18):
of the things that we'rerequired to do to, you know,
keep existing in this world.
I'm just saying that there's away to move without battle, with
enthusiasm rather than ambition, I guess.
And that's all dependent on usletting go of the fear of not
(27:39):
being worthy.
Realize, I'm worthy, I'm here,I have these, my heart has these
longings for a way to live, andit's okay to do that.
Clementine Moss (27:49):
So to go into that tenderness, how was it
holding the parts of you thatwere hard to hold at one point?
How did you create andcultivate that space for
yourself?
And I have a twofold question.
Did you find that it was easierto hold space for others with
that before you came to yourselfand held space for yourself
(28:11):
with those hard places?
Or you recognize, I have tohold it for myself first before
I can give it to others.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yeah, well, I'll say that.
Um, you know, a big shift in mecame when I started.
I was doing a practice, aTibetan meditation, where you
know, I'm guided to sit underthe tree with was carrying
something heavy that I no longerwanted to carry, and then I
(28:51):
would lay it at their feet andthen I would feel this
unconditional love coming backfrom the Buddha.
And I started to do themeditation and then I woke up
and the meditation was over andI was like, oh, it's been a
while since I fell asleep duringmeditation.
Okay, I kind of blacked out andwoke up when it was done, right
(29:11):
, and so I said, okay, next dayI'm just going to sit down and
do this meditation again.
Same thing, like same thing,just like my brain just would
not go there.
And I thought can I not feelunconditional love coming
towards me?
And so I sat and did anexploration, like, can I feel
(29:34):
myself unconditionally loved?
And no, I could not.
There was always this piece ofme that felt there was something
I needed to be different inorder to be loved.
And I even brought in my mother, who's an amazing mom and I
know loves me unconditionallyand even when I brought her into
(29:54):
the picture I could feel, Ifelt like I needed to be
somebody else in order for herto love me that way.
And when I realized that Icouldn't feel that I was worthy
of divine love, unconditionallove, that shifted everything.
Then I started to really moveinto those places that felt why
(30:16):
do I feel like I'm bad?
Why do I feel like I'm notworthy?
And when that stuff happened,when I started to do those
explorations, that stuffhappened when I started to do
those explorations and it wasvery painful.
I mean, I remember sitting, youknow, in shame.
I remember shame was this bigthing I kept dealing with.
It was layers and bedrocks ofshame within me.
(30:38):
I couldn't figure out where itcame from, but it just was this
energy within me.
And I remember sitting for anhour in meditation and my body
was convulsing with the agony ofsitting in this heavy feeling.
But after I went through all ofthat and I became so much
(31:00):
lighter and I let go of that andI started to feel myself worthy
, then what opened up for me wasa deep compassion for myself,
like, oh my gosh, for all theseyears I've been carrying these
things around with me andfunctioning Okay, but good grief
, like.
And then I remember driving downthe road and seeing people on
(31:23):
the sidewalk and thinking, oh myGod, if I've been dealing with
this stuff, imagine how much allof these people are dealing
with as they're on the street.
And, like I just started to, Iwent through this period where I
was just so emotional about thecompassion I was feeling for
the struggles that other peoplehave.
(31:43):
Um, and so it was after thatthat I started to study, you
know, work to help other people.
But and that came very, veryeasily and I wasn't like I was
looking for, it just came intomy life and it was kind of like,
once those things opened up,then I felt like my, my life
(32:07):
changed track a little bit andbeing able to help other people.
Clementine Moss (32:11):
If your past self could talk to you right now
, what would she say?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Oh my gosh, she would be so relieved that I've had
negative stuff for the most part.
I mean, of course it stillrises up, you know we have
patterns, right.
But yeah, boy, was she reallysuffered.
Sometimes I look at my 20 yearold self and I just, you know,
people say, oh, I'd owe to be 20again, or whatever.
(32:38):
I'm like, oh my god, all I seethen is just that gripping like,
just struggle, you know, withit myself, just not
understanding why I hated myselfso much, you know, really, in
so many ways, how, how, howdifficult that was.
(32:59):
And I have to look at her andI'm like, god, you did a lot for
having all of that package.
You know, having all of thatpackage, you know, and and I
also think, gosh, I, I had suchloving, I like a loving family
and you know, even with that Ihad all of these things.
So I sometimes I think we'rekind of born into this life to
to let go of some of thesethings.
Clementine Moss (33:20):
Yeah, and now?
What would your future selftell you about fear?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Well, I'm going to use the words of a spiritual
teacher that I really like a lot, who says that, you know, fear
is just denial of the divineright.
It's denial of that vibrationof love on which everything is
based.
You know, it's a belief thatwe're not divine Like.
If God is everything, then weare God, all things are God.
(33:47):
Everything is of that thing,everything is of that vibration.
There's nothing outside of it.
You can't put anything outsideof it.
And fear comes up in thosemoments where you know, for some
reason I think Clem is the oneperson who's outside of this
(34:09):
yeah, yeah.
Clementine Moss (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, that othering that can happen,
putting yourself outside and notseeing that you're part of the
collective, that can be a lot ofwork, having that journey,
coming back into yourself, intodivine, into the love.
And you know, because it's likeyou said, we're patterns and
(34:33):
humans just create patterns.
It's so easy to bounce back upout of it.
Yet, you know, the reason whywe create practices is always
the reminder of this.
Isn't that you come back home.
You're welcome to come backhome.
It's always there for you.
It's not like you got kickedout, it's that you left home and
just come back home.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, yeah, and over time, yeah, over time.
I think what happens is, youknow, we start to things at the
beginning of our spiritual lives.
I think we're constantly tryingto get in there, right, Trying
to get there, and then, as timegoes on, something flips and
we're there a lot of the timeand then when we bounce out,
(35:18):
it's like this interest, youknow, like whoa, like I was
really like look at all thatanger that came out in traffic.
NatNat (35:25):
You know like where the heck you?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
know, wow, I thought that was over.
Nope, that's still there.
Like, look at all that angerthat came out in traffic.
You know, like, where the heck.
You know, wow, I thought thatwas over.
Nope, that's still there.
Like, let's take a look at that, you know.
So I remember the first time Iwent to a 10-day meditation
retreat.
The teacher, sn Goenka, saidyou know, one day you're going
to appreciate your pain.
And I thought, all right, I'mgetting out right now.
This is so stupid.
And I thought, all right, I'mgetting out right now.
(35:47):
This is so stupid.
Like how could you everappreciate?
But now I'm kind of there, likenow, when something happens
within me, you know, even ifit's painful, I'm like whoa well
, okay, more work to be done.
You know there's always morework to be done, yeah.
Clementine Moss (35:59):
So I'm mindful of time.
Can you let the listeners knowwhere they can find you, your
book and also whatever offeringsyou have?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah, sure, let's see .
I'm at clamthegreatcom that ismy website and my book is there
and on Amazon.
It's From Bottom to Buddha andBack is the name of it.
I read it as well, so it's anaudible book as well, and I have
new music that's been comingout.
I have a new record that'sgoing to be out on May 30th that
I'm really excited about, and Ijust put out some new music as
(36:42):
well.
Zapparella is always travelingall over the place, but
everything is at clemthegreedcom, thank you.
Clementine Moss (36:51):
So I'd like you to tap into your heart and
listen to what your heart'ssaying, and to send out an
intention to the listener thatis listening right now.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Well, I'd love if, even for a minute today, every
person just stopped andrecognized that part of
themselves that is okay, that isgood, that is worthy, that
never seems to change, has noneed for to be different in any
(37:29):
way, that everything is okay now.
It's almost like a little oneof those little lamplighters who
used to walk through a townsaying all is well, all is well.
Like.
Where is the little lamplighterwithin you that says all is?
Clementine Moss (37:50):
well.
Thank you so much, clem.
This has been uh, I felt likebalm on the heart very soothing
conversation, very open, and Iappreciate your vulnerability of
you know, sometimes people hearum spirituality or hear about
rock and roll or hear aboutthese different identities and
(38:11):
they think that there'sperfection where you allowed us
all to see what the journeylooks like.
The messiness, the polishedparts, really understand what
surrender and acceptance is andwhat the journey looks like that
it's just a continuation allthe time.
So thank you so much for thelight that you're bringing in
the world and the vibration inmusic that you're uplifting
(38:34):
people.
So thank you so much for allthat you bring forth.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Thank you so much, and thank you for the really
wonderful conversation and yourreally insightful questions.
I so appreciate it.
Clementine Moss (38:47):
Please remember to be kind to yourself.
NatNat (38:51):
Hey, you made it all the way here.
Clementine Moss (38:54):
I appreciate you and your time.
If you found value in thisconversation, please share it
out.
If there was somebody thatpopped into your mind, take
action and share it out withthem.
NatNat (39:06):
It possibly may not be them that will benefit.
It's that they know somebodythat will benefit from listening
to this conversation, so pleasetake action and share out the
podcast.
Clementine Moss (39:18):
You can find us on social media, on Facebook,
instagram and TikTok under LiftOne Self.
And if you want to inquireabout the work that I do and the
services that I provide topeople, come over on my website,
come into a discovery callliftoneselfcom.
NatNat (39:38):
Until next time, please remember to be kind and gentle
with yourself.
You matter.
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break
mental health stigmas throughconversations.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and wedive into topics about trauma
and how it impacts the nervoussystem.
Yet we don't just leave youthere.
We share insights and tools ofself-care, meditation and growth
(00:21):
that help you be curious aboutyour own biology.
Your presence matters.
Please like and subscribe toour podcast.
Help our community grow.
Let's get into this.
Oh, and please remember to bekind to yourself.
Clementine Moss (00:36):
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast.
I'm your host, Nat Nat, andtoday we are going to go into
rock and roll and spiritualityand some of you might be like
how do those two go hand in hand?
Yet we're going to hear fromClementine Moss and she's going
to explain how she thought theywere something of separation,
(00:58):
yet she learned the integrationof blending it all together.
So, Clementine, can youintroduce yourself to myself and
the listeners and let us know alittle bit about yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, I will.
Thank you so much again forhaving me here.
So I'm Clementine.
I'm a rock and roll drummer.
The project that I make myliving with is playing John
Bonham's drum parts, ledZeppelin's drum parts in a band
(01:28):
named Zepperella.
I also am a spiritual counselorand I work in several different
modalities, mostly Buddhistbased, and I'm also a writer I
wrote a book about a year and ahalf two years ago.
It came out and also asongwriter, singer, create my
(01:52):
own music as well.
So I have a lot of ovens in thefire.
I'm in San Francisco and Ithink that's pretty much me,
yeah.
Clementine Moss (02:02):
So, before we dive in, would you be willing to
do a mindful moment with me sowe can ground?
oh yeah yeah, I love it and forthe listeners as you always hear
, safety first.
Please don't close your eyes.
If you're driving or needingyour visual yet you're able to
follow the other prompts.
So, clementine, I'll ask you toget comfortable in your seating
(02:24):
and, if it's safe to do so,gently close your eyes and
you're going to begin breathingin and out through your nose and
you're going to bring yourawareness to watching your
breath.
You're not going to try andcontrol your breath, you're just
going to be aware of itsnatural state, allowing it to
(02:44):
guide you into your body.
There may be some sensations orfeelings coming up, and that's
okay.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go,surrender the need to control,
(03:05):
release the need to resist andjust be, be with your breath,
drop deeper into your body.
Now.
There may be some thoughts orto-do lists that have popped up.
That's okay.
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
(03:36):
space between the awareness andthe thoughts and dropping deeper
into the body, being in thespace of presence, in the space
of presence, in the space ofbeing.
Again, more thoughts may havepopped up.
(03:57):
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
even more space between theawareness and the thoughts and
completely surrendering in thebody being, in the presence, in
the being now coming back intothe senses, into this present
(04:37):
moment, fully in the body, atyour own time and at your own
pace.
You're going to gently open youreyes while staying with your
breath.
How is your heart doing?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
My heart is always good.
It always, you know.
There's always a longing toopen it further.
You know, I feel like that's alot of my practice these days is
learning how to be open-heartedin all situations, not defense.
Clementine Moss (05:13):
I call that warrior work.
That nervous system is in fightor flight and wanting to
protect it's allowing thatdisarmament and softening the
body and opening up the heart.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
it's easier said than done, though it's really it's
learning to sit inuncomfortability, and you know
we've been trained in so manyways to run away from anything
that's uncomfortable and, um,yeah, nothing like meditation to
teach you how to just sit inthe uncomfortable.
Yeah, I think that's thepurpose, right?
(05:50):
Yeah?
Clementine Moss (05:51):
yeah.
What has drumming um taught youabout presence, both in music
and in life, and how has thatpresence become your spiritual
practice?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Well, you know, meditation and drumming kind of
came into my life around thesame time, at least, you know,
for meditation it was my focusreally started to kind of zero
in on it, on regular practice,around the time that I took up
drumming, which was in my late20s, and I didn't understand.
(06:24):
You know, from the time that Itook up drumming, which was in
my late 20s, and I didn'tunderstand, you know, from the
time that I took my first drumlesson, I was just called to
drumming.
I really, you know every otherinstrument I'd ever played, it
was always a chore to practice.
But when I came home the drumswere there.
It was like what I wanted to do.
When I was in a room wheresomebody was playing drums, it's
(06:47):
like the world kind of fellaway and I was like osmosis.
You know, I felt like I was inthe state of constant learning
and a lot of my life made sensewhen I started playing drums,
like, oh yeah, that is how mymind works.
You know, that is how I seespace and time.
That is.
(07:07):
It just made so much sense tome.
So drumming was really cominginto myself and as someone who,
you know, in my young life hadstruggled so much and continued
to and still continues tosometimes struggle with a sense
of unworthiness.
You know, drumming is aboutpower especially.
(07:30):
You know any drumming, but inrock and roll drumming, you know
the, the drum voice, is crucialto how people perceive the
whole group.
So so there's a sense ofauthority that I started to come
into, that was in me already,that I didn't have to learn, but
that I started to understandhow to be in.
(07:53):
So, you know, coming toourselves, coming to the truth
of who we are and ourselves, Ithink is a big purpose of what
we call spirituality to findthat constant flame within us,
that unwavering flame within us.
(08:14):
And when I'm behind a drum set,I feel like I couldn't be in a
place where I felt morecomfortable and more myself.
It really feels like I'm, Istep right into myself and and
so in that sense, drumming hasbeen profound in my spiritual
(08:37):
life.
And now that I'm a spiritualcounselor and a shamanic
counselor and I use the drum forhealing, you know, when that
came into my life, I just lightbulbs went on like crazy for me,
like oh, this is actuallysomething that I'm connected to,
(08:58):
and even an even deeper waythan holding a beat, you know,
in a rock show, so yeah, drumsare.
I could go on and on about alove song to drumming.
And beat, you know, in a rockshow, so yeah, drums are.
I could go on and on about alove song to drumming and
actually my book, I feel like ina large part, is a love song to
drums.
Yeah.
Clementine Moss (09:13):
Yeah.
So a lot of people may notrealize this yet.
You know, performing for people, there's a lot of attention,
yet there's this energy flow,there's this interaction between
the audience and the musicians,the artists, and there's I
don't know if you would say thatthere's like a oneness in that
(09:37):
energy field and just being inthat collective collective.
Yet what a lot of people don'trealize is when you come off the
stage, that was like a reallybig high coming off into the
everyday mundane.
That can feel a little bitsplintered for some people.
I don't know if you've everexperienced that of being on the
(09:58):
highs and being on the lows,and if you had, how did you, you
know, collect all thosesplintered parts to make sure
that you were whole in all ofthe different dynamics of walks
of life?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I have watched that happen tomany people and have, you know,
(10:37):
experienced that in people I'veplayed with, and I think that a
lot of that is due to our theperform a mask that they come on
in stage, and it is a lot ofthat protection.
You know, when you'reperforming you really are, like
I said, just as close as you canto your truth, and that can be
extremely frightening to do infront of a lot of people.
(11:01):
And so I think people have away, performers have a way of
putting a mask on, and that maskis a mask of invincibility and
then when they get off stagethey are, they're invincible,
they're not invincible anymore.
And you know, then, in order tokeep like, they grab towards
(11:23):
that feeling that they had onstage of invincibility through
substances or through situationsin their life that maybe aren't
as good for them.
And I've never really felt thattoo much.
I think part of it is becauseI'm a drummer and so I'm kind of
naturally protected by a bunchof metal and wood in front of me
(11:45):
and the audience.
There's something funny that'shappened to me recently, which
is, you know, I had anexperience where, you know, in
the middle of my set I have totake a drum solo, right, which
is highly humiliating for mebecause it just spotlights for
me all of the ways that I'm nota good drummer.
But I have to do it and I haveto just give myself, throw
(12:08):
myself into it every night and,you know, I have to stand up and
take a bow, even if I feel likewhat I did was humiliating,
right, I have to pretend like itwas okay.
And I had an experiencerecently where I you know, the
(12:30):
solo and the crowd was soeffusive and as they were
clapping, I realized that Ididn't feel it.
I couldn't feel that energy ofappreciation coming at me and I
had this little question tomyself is it because I don't
feel worthy of it?
Because I think that's how Iused to feel, like I'm not
worthy of it and so like they'reclapping but they don't know,
(12:52):
like if they really knew thereal me, then they wouldn't be
clapping, right, if they reallyknew how bad I was, they
wouldn't be clapping.
But when I really examined itthis time, I realized it wasn't
that.
It was that the me that wouldabsorb appreciation.
She just wasn't there.
And what was there instead wasa feeling that it was one
(13:17):
appreciation that we were in,one appreciation that I had been
a tool used for, to create amoment of appreciation, and so
it wasn't about Clem, it wasabout the appreciation that we
were together in that roomcelebrating something happening
(13:38):
right, and that was really aprofound shift in my thinking
and also a realization.
Wow, I really have let go of alot of that, that egoness, you
know, and it'll never be gone.
Of course we always carry ourego with us and I can, you know,
I thought I was doing a littlethought experiment afterwards
(14:01):
and I said what, if nobodyclapped afterwards, would I have
felt that, you know?
And?
And I kind of went down thatroad and realized, yeah, of
course I have, you know, ego,but but it was something
different this time.
It was, and I think it was just, you know, that oneness that
you're talking about that backand forth, the drum sound goes
like I hit the drum and it goesout.
(14:22):
That sound goes into theaudience, it goes through
everybody's molecules and itcombines everybody and their
appreciation comes back into thenext hit and it's like this,
this circular thing.
So I'm a big fan of rock shows,of music shows, of of people
being in one room, forgettingall of the pettiness, and just
(14:42):
being in that one momenttogether, yeah, I want to ask um
in your younger years, wheredid you befriend anger?
Clementine Moss (14:53):
Did anger, did drumming, allow you to feel that
emotion more openly, or youdidn't.
There wasn't any relationshipwith anger.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, in my younger years, especially in the band
that I toured with reallyextensively.
It was the band was reallyheavy rock and um, I think that
we, um, that band was two otherwomen and we toured one year.
We did like over 300 shows thatyear.
(15:24):
So it was like every night in adifferent city, just the three
of us living in a car right,we're living in a van and I
think that, um, in that band itwas helpful to be fueled by
anger, fueled by frustration, bythe frustration of the day, by
the frustration of being in this, like you know, very masculine
(15:45):
world, you know, and maybefeeling like it was just this
constant, proving that wedeserve to be there.
That anger could come into itand um, and it suited the music,
um, and so I feel like, youknow, that was helpful for that
period.
And then at a certain point itshifted for me and I realized I
(16:07):
just had more stamina if Iplayed from joy, and I had more
stamina when I connected to thatum, that kind of infinite
battery of of, um, ofpeacefulness within me.
Um, then I felt like I couldplay forever and um, you know,
anger is a depletion, um, andjoy is uh, uh, it keeps going so
(16:32):
um.
So that was a big lesson at acertain point early in my career
.
Clementine Moss (16:38):
Yeah, because a lot of people may not realize
how much energy it takes fordrumming and how much drumming
holds the foundation of themusical group and the instrument
and keeping people in a certaintempo and, like you know, the
bass and other instruments doand the vocalist also, yet that
(17:00):
drumming is like the heartbeatand just really keeping the
tempo and the pace of theaudience.
So you know, physically it's anendurance, but also listening
to the collective, you know, ina spiritual way of what is the
beat that needs to be carriedhere, so that we can kind of be
in a trance of just being oneright now, not in our worries
(17:22):
and our to-do lists.
That it's a real meditativestate.
Does that resonate with you?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, it's funny because there's a saying in
music which is that you know youcan have a mediocre band and if
you have a great drummer itelevates the band.
If you have a great band but amediocre drummer, the band will
always be mediocre.
Right, because we have a subtleunderstanding of rhythm.
(17:53):
Every single person does,because we basically are a drum.
Right, our heart is a drum.
So we have a real intuitivesense of when something feels
right, and you know, for adrummer it's all about the space
between the hits.
Right, that we can feel likepeople.
(18:13):
We can feel like people aren'tsettled.
You know, we can feel likepeople are drifting, a drummer's
drifting in their awareness.
We can tell all these subtlethings about rhythm and so we
definitely know when it's right.
And and that takes a kind offocus and not focus, you know,
(18:33):
just like in meditation, wherewe're focusing very small in a
certain way, and yet we're alsoin that wider awareness and you
know, we can focus on the breathvery closely and then we can
focus on the bigger breathingthat's happening.
So it's kind of the same thing,yeah, yeah.
Clementine Moss (18:54):
So I want to ask you now you said that you
know you're a spiritual leaderand you counsel people With the
divine and human love.
How do you distinguish the twoand how do they collide with
each other?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Well, my outlook is that all things are made of love
.
That's my outlook.
The divine, whatever we want tocall it, consciousness, god, I
see it as a flow of love, thatat the base of all things is a
(19:34):
vibration of love.
And that's not love, theemotion, that's love in perfect
benevolence, perfectpeacefulness, perfect ease,
perfect I want to say adoration,I don't know.
That kind of brings in emotions.
(20:00):
It's kind of hard to talk aboutlove as an energy, right, that's
what I see it as an energy ofthat, the way that we see human
love, I think, is an emotion,and an emotion is tied to an
ego's preferences.
So, you know, I think true loveis and I'm not discounting that
(20:28):
I think we learn a lot oflessons in our emotions and our
relationships, our emotionalrelationships.
I think you know that's one ofthe best things about being
human is that we have thosethings and that we go through
all of those lessons.
But there are a lot of lessonsin them and you know, I like to
think of loving in that.
(20:49):
You know we were talking aboutbeing open, hearted in a
completely undefended way,hearted in a completely
undefended way, and undefendedmeans without fear.
And so jealousy is fear, angeris fear.
You know, control is fear.
And so if we have no fear, thenwe're allowed to love
(21:11):
unconditionally, freely andboundaried too.
Clementine Moss (21:14):
Because, too, because, you know, loving
another means we love ourselvesin that way as well, and we we
treat ourselves with the respectof, of boundary, without any
trauma around it yeah and I justwant to highlight for some of
the listeners, because you know,when they hear fear, then some
(21:35):
people want to do a little bitof spiritual bypassing and, you
know, evilizing the humanexperience, that nervous system
that gets ignited with fear.
And the reason why we will feelfear is because we don't feel
the safety.
And until we start programmingthe unknown, the uncertainty,
and having trust within, thereis a lot of igniting of those
(21:57):
protective emotions of, like yousaid, frustration and
insecurity.
It's again, you know, these arethe bodyguards of the fear that
doesn't feel safe.
To show the vulnerability thatI feel unsafe, that I feel that
I'm not able to be open in myrawness, in my openness, in my
(22:17):
naked truth, that it won't beharmed or hurt.
And sometimes, yeah, it's onthe outside.
Yet a lot of times it's our ownlittle inner critic that
chastises us.
You gave us a beautiful exampleof when drumming and the
applauding, and at one pointit'd be like, oh, self-loathing,
it's not good enough, it's notat the perfect way where
(22:38):
releasing that.
It's like, oh, I'm safe to beright here in this moment, not
with the doing or theperfectionist.
So there's that safety thatallows the fear to be diminished
.
I think sometimes just how I'mtrying to create language around
this.
It's always like love or fear,where it's like how do we
(22:59):
integrate the two and how do webetter understand what fear
really is so that we can meet itwith compassion and we can meet
it with the love?
Not I got to destroy it and getrid of it and berate it.
It's like well, it's still partof that humanness.
If we didn't have fear, ournervous system wouldn't be able
to function properly.
It would know don't you know,go into the fire, or it wouldn't
(23:22):
give us the cues that we needto have.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yet I think sometimes yeah, oh, no, no, I super
appreciate what you'recompletely right, that um, and
that I think that the fear, likefinding fear within ourselves,
um, it's is really related tothat journey within ourselves to
(23:45):
realize we are love, we aresafe, we are, um, that to have
the compassion and the self-loveto realize that there is
nothing here that can harm me.
There's nothing that can harmthat infinite flame, that
infinite light within us.
(24:06):
So really, it's not even somuch about battling fear, it's
about saying, oh, fear is here.
It's about saying, oh, fear ishere.
(24:40):
Let me fall deeper into thatknowing of myself as that
infinite flame, as that infinitelight, and realize that in that
light fear burns up, leaninginto the truth of us.
You know, I love to just stopand think what if I am exactly
perfect right now?
What if I don't need to bebetter?
What if I don't need to behealed?
What if everything that I'mlooking for is right here, right
now?
And it's almost as if a trapdoor falls out from underneath
me and I feel like I'm lookingfor is right here right now, and
it's almost as if a trap doorfalls out from underneath me and
I feel like I'm floating in air, like it feels so
(25:01):
discombobulating to think like,oh my gosh, what if I don't need
to do anything except to behere?
In this light, and for a while Iwas really kind of freaked out
by it.
I asked a spiritual counselor.
I said, you know, I feel likeI've lost all my ambition, right
(25:25):
, and you know, for us,especially as for me, as an
American and I'm sure there's alevel of this in Canada too it's
like the idea that likeambition is what we, you know,
it's like what our forwardmovement, right, and it's always
about ambition, about beingbetter, about like getting
somewhere else.
And um, and one day I realizedI just didn't have that anymore
(25:48):
and I realized how much I hadbeen propelled through my life
towards these random things thatyou know often were nebulous,
this feeling that I keep havingto go forward.
And when that was gone, I feltlike very, it was a very strange
feeling.
And this counselor said to meit's not that you've removed
(26:10):
ambition, it's that you'veremoved the goalposts and that
you're now what you're doing isyou're following your enthusiasm
, you're following where yourheart wants to go, where your
enthusiasm is telling you to go,and you no longer have this
random set of criteria thatyou're moving towards.
(26:33):
You're moving in every momentwith the intention of your heart
, and I think that's a great wayto look at it.
And to you know, let go of thefear of not being good enough,
not being enough.
Well, of course I'm enough.
My heart is telling me.
This is what excites me, this iswhat lights me up, this is what
(26:55):
makes me want to move into theworld, even if it's doing my
taxes.
You know, even if it'ssomething mundane, I can go with
enthusiasm because, oh, my God,it's going to feel so good to
get that done and I have theability to pay my taxes, and how
grateful I am, and you know allthose things that go along with
it.
So I'm not saying we have todrop, you know, our jobs and all
(27:18):
of the things that we'rerequired to do to, you know,
keep existing in this world.
I'm just saying that there's away to move without battle, with
enthusiasm rather than ambition, I guess.
And that's all dependent on usletting go of the fear of not
(27:39):
being worthy.
Realize, I'm worthy, I'm here,I have these, my heart has these
longings for a way to live, andit's okay to do that.
Clementine Moss (27:49):
So to go into that tenderness, how was it
holding the parts of you thatwere hard to hold at one point?
How did you create andcultivate that space for
yourself?
And I have a twofold question.
Did you find that it was easierto hold space for others with
that before you came to yourselfand held space for yourself
(28:11):
with those hard places?
Or you recognize, I have tohold it for myself first before
I can give it to others.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yeah, well, I'll say that.
Um, you know, a big shift in mecame when I started.
I was doing a practice, aTibetan meditation, where you
know, I'm guided to sit underthe tree with was carrying
something heavy that I no longerwanted to carry, and then I
(28:51):
would lay it at their feet andthen I would feel this
unconditional love coming backfrom the Buddha.
And I started to do themeditation and then I woke up
and the meditation was over andI was like, oh, it's been a
while since I fell asleep duringmeditation.
Okay, I kind of blacked out andwoke up when it was done, right
(29:11):
, and so I said, okay, next dayI'm just going to sit down and
do this meditation again.
Same thing, like same thing,just like my brain just would
not go there.
And I thought can I not feelunconditional love coming
towards me?
And so I sat and did anexploration, like, can I feel
(29:34):
myself unconditionally loved?
And no, I could not.
There was always this piece ofme that felt there was something
I needed to be different inorder to be loved.
And I even brought in my mother, who's an amazing mom and I
know loves me unconditionallyand even when I brought her into
(29:54):
the picture I could feel, Ifelt like I needed to be
somebody else in order for herto love me that way.
And when I realized that Icouldn't feel that I was worthy
of divine love, unconditionallove, that shifted everything.
Then I started to really moveinto those places that felt why
(30:16):
do I feel like I'm bad?
Why do I feel like I'm notworthy?
And when that stuff happened,when I started to do those
explorations, that stuffhappened when I started to do
those explorations and it wasvery painful.
I mean, I remember sitting, youknow, in shame.
I remember shame was this bigthing I kept dealing with.
It was layers and bedrocks ofshame within me.
(30:38):
I couldn't figure out where itcame from, but it just was this
energy within me.
And I remember sitting for anhour in meditation and my body
was convulsing with the agony ofsitting in this heavy feeling.
But after I went through all ofthat and I became so much
(31:00):
lighter and I let go of that andI started to feel myself worthy
, then what opened up for me wasa deep compassion for myself,
like, oh my gosh, for all theseyears I've been carrying these
things around with me andfunctioning Okay, but good grief
, like.
And then I remember driving downthe road and seeing people on
(31:23):
the sidewalk and thinking, oh myGod, if I've been dealing with
this stuff, imagine how much allof these people are dealing
with as they're on the street.
And, like I just started to, Iwent through this period where I
was just so emotional about thecompassion I was feeling for
the struggles that other peoplehave.
(31:43):
Um, and so it was after thatthat I started to study, you
know, work to help other people.
But and that came very, veryeasily and I wasn't like I was
looking for, it just came intomy life and it was kind of like,
once those things opened up,then I felt like my, my life
(32:07):
changed track a little bit andbeing able to help other people.
Clementine Moss (32:11):
If your past self could talk to you right now
, what would she say?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Oh my gosh, she would be so relieved that I've had
negative stuff for the most part.
I mean, of course it stillrises up, you know we have
patterns, right.
But yeah, boy, was she reallysuffered.
Sometimes I look at my 20 yearold self and I just, you know,
people say, oh, I'd owe to be 20again, or whatever.
(32:38):
I'm like, oh my god, all I seethen is just that gripping like,
just struggle, you know, withit myself, just not
understanding why I hated myselfso much, you know, really, in
so many ways, how, how, howdifficult that was.
(32:59):
And I have to look at her andI'm like, god, you did a lot for
having all of that package.
You know, having all of thatpackage, you know, and and I
also think, gosh, I, I had suchloving, I like a loving family
and you know, even with that Ihad all of these things.
So I sometimes I think we'rekind of born into this life to
to let go of some of thesethings.
Clementine Moss (33:20):
Yeah, and now?
What would your future selftell you about fear?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Well, I'm going to use the words of a spiritual
teacher that I really like a lot, who says that, you know, fear
is just denial of the divineright.
It's denial of that vibrationof love on which everything is
based.
You know, it's a belief thatwe're not divine Like.
If God is everything, then weare God, all things are God.
(33:47):
Everything is of that thing,everything is of that vibration.
There's nothing outside of it.
You can't put anything outsideof it.
And fear comes up in thosemoments where you know, for some
reason I think Clem is the oneperson who's outside of this
(34:09):
yeah, yeah.
Clementine Moss (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, that othering that can happen,
putting yourself outside and notseeing that you're part of the
collective, that can be a lot ofwork, having that journey,
coming back into yourself, intodivine, into the love.
And you know, because it's likeyou said, we're patterns and
(34:33):
humans just create patterns.
It's so easy to bounce back upout of it.
Yet, you know, the reason whywe create practices is always
the reminder of this.
Isn't that you come back home.
You're welcome to come backhome.
It's always there for you.
It's not like you got kickedout, it's that you left home and
just come back home.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, yeah, and over time, yeah, over time.
I think what happens is, youknow, we start to things at the
beginning of our spiritual lives.
I think we're constantly tryingto get in there, right, Trying
to get there, and then, as timegoes on, something flips and
we're there a lot of the timeand then when we bounce out,
(35:18):
it's like this interest, youknow, like whoa, like I was
really like look at all thatanger that came out in traffic.
NatNat (35:25):
You know like where the heck you?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
know, wow, I thought that was over.
Nope, that's still there.
Like, look at all that angerthat came out in traffic.
You know, like, where the heck.
You know, wow, I thought thatwas over.
Nope, that's still there.
Like, let's take a look at that, you know.
So I remember the first time Iwent to a 10-day meditation
retreat.
The teacher, sn Goenka, saidyou know, one day you're going
to appreciate your pain.
And I thought, all right, I'mgetting out right now.
This is so stupid.
And I thought, all right, I'mgetting out right now.
(35:47):
This is so stupid.
Like how could you everappreciate?
But now I'm kind of there, likenow, when something happens
within me, you know, even ifit's painful, I'm like whoa well
, okay, more work to be done.
You know there's always morework to be done, yeah.
Clementine Moss (35:59):
So I'm mindful of time.
Can you let the listeners knowwhere they can find you, your
book and also whatever offeringsyou have?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah, sure, let's see .
I'm at clamthegreatcom that ismy website and my book is there
and on Amazon.
It's From Bottom to Buddha andBack is the name of it.
I read it as well, so it's anaudible book as well, and I have
new music that's been comingout.
I have a new record that'sgoing to be out on May 30th that
I'm really excited about, and Ijust put out some new music as
(36:42):
well.
Zapparella is always travelingall over the place, but
everything is at clemthegreedcom, thank you.
Clementine Moss (36:51):
So I'd like you to tap into your heart and
listen to what your heart'ssaying, and to send out an
intention to the listener thatis listening right now.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Well, I'd love if, even for a minute today, every
person just stopped andrecognized that part of
themselves that is okay, that isgood, that is worthy, that
never seems to change, has noneed for to be different in any
(37:29):
way, that everything is okay now.
It's almost like a little oneof those little lamplighters who
used to walk through a townsaying all is well, all is well.
Like.
Where is the little lamplighterwithin you that says all is?
Clementine Moss (37:50):
well.
Thank you so much, clem.
This has been uh, I felt likebalm on the heart very soothing
conversation, very open, and Iappreciate your vulnerability of
you know, sometimes people hearum spirituality or hear about
rock and roll or hear aboutthese different identities and
(38:11):
they think that there'sperfection where you allowed us
all to see what the journeylooks like.
The messiness, the polishedparts, really understand what
surrender and acceptance is andwhat the journey looks like that
it's just a continuation allthe time.
So thank you so much for thelight that you're bringing in
the world and the vibration inmusic that you're uplifting
(38:34):
people.
So thank you so much for allthat you bring forth.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Thank you so much, and thank you for the really
wonderful conversation and yourreally insightful questions.
I so appreciate it.
Clementine Moss (38:47):
Please remember to be kind to yourself.
NatNat (38:51):
Hey, you made it all the way here.
Clementine Moss (38:54):
I appreciate you and your time.
If you found value in thisconversation, please share it
out.
If there was somebody thatpopped into your mind, take
action and share it out withthem.
NatNat (39:06):
It possibly may not be them that will benefit.
It's that they know somebodythat will benefit from listening
to this conversation, so pleasetake action and share out the
podcast.
Clementine Moss (39:18):
You can find us on social media, on Facebook,
instagram and TikTok under LiftOne Self.
And if you want to inquireabout the work that I do and the
services that I provide topeople, come over on my website,
come into a discovery callliftoneselfcom.
NatNat (39:38):
Until next time, please remember to be kind and gentle
with yourself.
You matter.
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