From Criminal Justice to the Pulpit: Dylan Morrill's Journey of Faith and Leadership

Episode Transcript
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Tammy Hershberger (00:01):
Welcome to the Light Up your Business
podcast, the show where we divedeep into the world of small
businesses.
I'm your host, TammyHershberger, and each episode
will bring you inspiring stories, expert insights and practical
tips to help your small businessthrive.
Whether you're an entrepreneurjust starting out or a seasoned
business owner, this podcast isyour go-to source for success in

(00:21):
the small business world.
Let's get started to source forsuccess in the small business
world.
Let's get started.
Hi everyone, I want to welcomeyou back to another episode of
Light Up your Business podcast.
Today I have a friend of mine,an ex-co-worker.
He was an excellent worker forme when I had him.
His name is Dylan Morrill.
How are you doing, Dylan?

Dylan Morrill (00:39):
Doing great.
Tammy, thanks for having me.

You are welcome, so I want to bring you
on.
I believe.
Well, I feel leadership issuper important in business.
You're going to school to be aminister is that how you would
say it?
Or pastor.

Yeah, pastor, minister.
However, you want to say itwithin that realm.

Okay, well, let's open this right up and do
you want to tell my audience whoyou are, what you do?
Wow, you're amazing.

Yeah, I am a pastor at Enjoy Church here in
Grand Junction.
I work with our youth and kidsprimarily.
I also serve on our board ofelders, so I have some good
experience with churchleadership specifically.
But my roles at the church areentirely volunteer and so I also

(01:24):
work a job.
I had worked at Starbucks fornearly three years, worked
window cleaning for Tammy for agood chunk and just incredible
experiences.
So just trying to be the lightof Christ in each and every
business, each and every placethe Lord takes me.
Right now I'm working as aspecial ed para and so do that
from 7 am to 3.30 pm and thenafter that I have the rest of

(01:50):
the day for ministry, for school, for family and whatever else I
get into.

Well, that sounds way awesome.
I'm really curious Do you care,if we just kind of jump in?

Yeah, absolutely.

What drew you to the ministry?
When did you know you wanted todo that?

Yeah, that is.
It's probably going to take aminute to answer the question.

Sure, take as much time as you need.

So, probably sophomore year of high school, I
had known that I wanted to be apolice officer and that was my
passion.
I bought thin blue linemerchandise, had a thin blue
line flag up in my room fromwhen I was 15 years old and I
was pursuing policing full headof steam, and that's actually

(02:32):
what brought me to GrandJunction is Colorado Mesa has an
excellent criminal justiceprogram, so I was going to
school for criminal justice, andit was after my freshman year
of college that I actuallybecame a follower of Jesus.
I wasn't really raised, grownto church, and so I had like

(02:52):
some mixed perceptions of church.
I started going to youth groupa little bit in high school, but
I did not know Jesus as my Lordand Savior.
And so it was after my freshmanyear of college, during COVID
actually, I was alone in mybedroom and I had an experience
with Jesus after reading thebook of James, and it was just
like, verse by verse, line byline, I met and encountered.

(03:15):
It's so inexplicable, yet soreal to me, and it was just like
Jesus ripping me to shreds andwas just like a shell of myself,
and in that moment I realizedthat there was nothing I wanted
more in life than to follow him.
And so I turned to Jesus and Itold him.
I said I don't know what'sgoing to happen with anything in

(03:36):
my life, but I'm going to livefor you.
And so from there, it was anexperience of like how in the
world does this play out in myday-to-day life?
I already made a commitment tobe a resident assistant at CMU
for the next semester.
So I went back to school andjust slowly by slowly, I just

(03:58):
felt the Lord drawing me awayfrom criminal justice and from
policing, and that had been likewhere I put all my eggs for so
long.
Um, I absolutely loved thedegree program.
I was ahead of schedule.
Um would have been wellgraduated by now and maybe
working for GJPD.
But the Lord had some otherthings in store.
So one night I had to make adecision of if I was going to

(04:21):
continue with criminal justiceor not, and I had no idea what
to do.
Uh, so I went up to themonument and I told Jesus I was
going to continue with criminaljustice or not.
And I had no idea what to do.
So I went up to the monumentand I told Jesus I was like I am
not coming down from thismonument until I have an answer.
So I went up there, started toworship, started to read my
Bible and I just felt nothing.
And I was just so unsure so Ijust laid back and thought I'd

(04:43):
watch the stars.
Long story short, I was drawnto this constellation.
The stars up there, for y'allwho don't know, are just
incredible.
And so I looked up the name ofit and the name was Aquila.
I was like, okay, I know, I'veheard that somewhere in the
Bible.
So I went, found Aquila in theBible and I just started reading
and it was talking about theApostle, can I ask where it was?

Where in the Bible it was, do you remember?

Acts, chapter 18.
I cannot remember the exactverse that like struck me.
But I read this verse and ittalked about how all of the
Apostle, Paul's colleagues andfriends, had wanted him to stay,
but he knew that the Lord wastaking him to his next ministry
location.
And so, um, I kind of it.
It's.
It sounds like a stretch, but,in faith, stepped out, trusting

(05:31):
that, like this was what theLord was speaking to me.
Uh, was that?
All the people, all my friends,my classmates, my professors,
wanted me to stick around, andyet I had felt the Lord drawing
me to my next thing.
So, in faith, I dropped out ofcollege college dropout, but
from there I still did not knowif ministry was for me.

(05:53):
I just knew that criminaljustice was not for me.
So I was just step by step,walking in faith, seeing where
the Lord would take me.
So I get to a point where I amnow a college dropout and I'm
trying to work Uber Eats inGrand Junction, which is not
really working.
I'm from Denver originally andit is absolutely booming over
there Was not getting by.

(06:13):
So I hop on this Facebook groupand I find this incredible job
posting from Eric Lammers and,um I commented on it.
I ended up getting an interview, ended up getting the job
cleaning windows, so working forTammy.
Her and Eric were businesspartners and through that job it

(06:34):
they allowed me to also internat my church and so I was just
exploring ministry options andministry career, trying to see
like what that would be like inmy life and so just still slowly
growing through it.
And as I'm interning I've justabsolutely fallen in love with
what ministry life is like andgetting more and more
experiences.

(06:54):
Started leading the youthministry at my church and just
took that over with my wife andthere's just nothing I'd rather
do, wife, and there's justnothing I'd rather do.
And so, continuing into that, Iwas prayerful about whether or
not I needed to go to collegeand pursue a degree, because
there's plenty of incrediblepastors out there who there's

(07:18):
like a wealth of resources forleadership and theology and you
can study the Bible very indepth and there's just a world
of resources out there fromyoutube and um many ministries
that are there to equip thechurch and to equip pastors
outside of college.
So I was like all right,there's many opportunities, many
different paths I can take.

(07:38):
So I again turned to prayer andwas wondering, like lord, am I
supposed to go to college?

and tammy knows this I want you to tell
this story because to me it's atestament pretty incredible.

So within the last couple weeks I had been
praying if I should go back tocollege and pursue a degree to
become a pastor, and so a coupleweeks has gone by is actually
like one of my least favoritedays of work ever.
To start out with, because Iwas cleaning the dumpster pad at
chili's um was my leastfavorite job I think it was

(08:13):
everybody's got really gross.
um, I'll never get chili's again, sorry chili's.
But after that there's thisnext job and and I had never
worked for this woman cleaningher windows, but I had heard
about her.
I heard she was very generousand her name is Linda Kemp.
And so I just start cleaningthe windows and Linda she

(08:36):
usually just does her work inher office, sticks to herself.
But her and I started talkingback and forth.
I shared my testimony with her,shared my heart for ministry,
kind of where I was at in life,and she asked me a question.
She said, ok, well, do you needto go to college for ministry?
Like, if that's what you'rekind of thinking about doing?

(08:57):
I was like you know, like notnecessarily.
That's something I was actuallypraying about recently.
She's like OK, well, can youafford it right now?
And I was just brutally honestwith her.
I told her, no, I could not.
And so the next statementabsolutely stunned me and she
said well, okay, I'm going topay your way through Bible
college.
Um, so currently I am just overhalfway through a bachelor's of

(09:19):
divinity and that sounds veryfancy but, divinity is like a
broader range term for apastoral degree.
So I do theology, leadership andjust like other ministry
training.
So it's a very fancy word.
I don't know what exactlydivinity itself means.
So I'm halfway through that, ormore than halfway through that

(09:42):
degree now, and it is all paidfor by this woman I met while
window cleaning, after prayingif I should go back to college,
and then from there I've beengetting my degree and just after
that, internship at the church,just leaning in more and more
saying yes, in the directionsthat God has led me and brought
me.
And so now I have some prettyprominent roles of leadership at

(10:05):
the church.

Yeah, we're going to dig into that some more
.
So you, that was a lot, but Iwant to dig into some of that
because it's an amazing story.
So well, let's just go back toLinda Kemp for a second.
That is like my I talk about.
Sometimes I hear of like andpeople don't.
I'm so glad you came on, causenow they got the full story,
Cause I just kind of keep it tothe basic part of it because I
didn't even know the whole thing.
But it blesses me to know that,even though I'm not in the
window business anymore and thatis where it is still God used

(10:28):
that business to help someonelike you, and I mean he helped
everybody that worked for me insome different way and it was a
huge blessing for me when I hadit.
But I think it's so cool thatenough for today.
And he said that the provisioncomes on the battlefield and I

(10:51):
love that because in my coachingI you know I bring god into my
coaching that I deal with lifecoaching.
Small business owners and Ithink about some people are so
scared to get going.
They're like, well, when I havethe money or when I feel the
exact go, I will, will go, orwhatever, and they always
waiting for something to go.
And I always tell them you haveto get started.
The Bible is clear you getstarted, you start taking action
and he will meet you there.
And look what he did for you.

Yeah, there's a verse that comes to mind.
It says the righteous shalllive by faith.
And and that's really what Idid, cause there's so much
uncertainty and so muchquestions and so many times
where, like while I was workingUber Eats, I was like pretty
much as broke as could be andturned to the Lord in faith, and

(11:33):
then he provided a job inadvanced window cleaning and
then again the Lord's provisionhas just absolutely blown me
away and it's come at timeswhere I've been uncertain and
unsure, but placing my trust andplacing my hope in him has
absolutely prevailed nonstop andconstantly, even when it
doesn't look like it's coming.
I know from what's happened,what the scriptures testify of,

(11:59):
that the Lord is absolutelyfaithful.

Absolutely, and you have to stay in faith
the whole time, because I thinksometimes we give up too fast or
maybe it takes a little longerthan we thought and we want to
give up and it's like don't,because you have no idea how
close you are to that andsometimes it takes you building
your faith, sometimes it takeschallenges to get you there, and
so to me you're like my littletest.
I just love that story becauseI'm like it's real stuff.
It's not someone's happened Likeyou worked for me, people that

(12:25):
you know we all know you andit's a real deal because you
read stuff and it's like, oh,that sounds great, but I've
never heard of that happeninghere.
I mean, it happens so as far asthat goes.
So then, where are you wantingto go with your ministry?
What is like?
What's your vision for it?
What are you thinking to putthat to use of what God's done
for you?

See, I've kind of gone back and forth over the
years.
I think initially what I wantedto do was just like full-time,
long-term youth ministry, justpour into the next generation.
Oftentimes people view youthministry as kind of like a
stepping stone rather than justlike true and genuine ministry,
and ministering to young peopleis just as valuable as
ministering to adults.

(13:06):
So I absolutely love that.
But, based on the giftings Ihave and kind of where I feel
the Lord is leading, I thinkthat my wife and I will be the
senior pastors of a churchsomeday.
So I've gone.
Where it's gone back and forthis I don't know if we're going
to end up starting that churchor if it's going to be more of

(13:27):
like a acquisition type thing,where there's tons of churches
that are on the decline and needsome rejuvenation Um, and so I
think that is a beautifulopportunity to um bring life and
hope back to congregations thatused to have it and maybe even

(13:48):
have a space to gather forworship.
And there's some beautifulolder buildings um all across
the country that are just forthe lack of and I don't know.
I guess Christianity as a wholeum has sort of seen a decline
um in the United States.
Maybe not in every othercountry, but in the United

(14:08):
States in particular, we've seena decline, many people becoming
unchurched, and partially thathappened during the COVID
pandemic.
Many other factors go into that, but there's plenty of churches
that need hope and need likefresh vision and a fresh leader
to come in, and so we'veabsolutely considered that,
versus just starting from theground up.

Yeah, and I think it's great that you're
open to it because, I mean, I'vehad many plans that I thought
this is going to be it and thensomething changed.
You know God leads you adifferent direction but I think
if you're faithful and honestand you're listening to him, he
will guide you in the rightsteps.
Sometimes it may seem like, wow, that was kind of a wide path
to where I'm going, but I hadsomething to learn there or

(14:50):
something I had about myselfthat I had to fix.
That got me ready for what hehas for me the walk.
So that's very cool, I think.
Can I ask you and you can gowherever you want with that.
But you were talking about, Ido believe, churches are.
A lot of them are slowly dying.
Can I have your opinion Onlybecause you are in ministry?
You are a different generationthan me.
I'd be very curious what youranswer is, if you're willing to

(15:11):
share it.

Yeah, so part of the issue is not just within the
realm of churches but it'sholistically.
We've seen kind of anindividualist society arise in
America.
So there was a study that wasactually done on bowling leagues
and the decline of bowlingleagues over time.
As time has gone on, we've kindof seen this decline

(15:35):
holistically in America of biggroup events and big group
gatherings and so that has alsostruck the church.
I think that also our cultureis slowly becoming more
secularized.
I mean I struggle to call theUnited States like a Christian

(16:00):
nation in its roots and itsorigins.
I think they're heavilyinfluenced by Christian values
and over time people have eitherbeen hurt by the church and a
lot of that is the church'sfault in misrepresenting Jesus.
There's been a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of hurt and some of the

(16:22):
reasons that people walked awayfrom church I think are
absolutely valid.
But then again some of it isthat just group gatherings as a
whole have gone down, that clubshave gone down.
And then I cannot neglect thereality that there's a spiritual
battle as well and that theApostle Paul in Ephesians writes

(16:42):
that our battle is not againstflesh and blood, but it's
against spiritual powers,principalities and rulers in
these high places.
And so we have the spiritualbattle to keep in mind.
But oftentimes, when we seephysically on the outside, where
it feels like the church islosing foot and it feels like
we're losing grounding in thespiritual realm, we're just on

(17:06):
the doorstep of awakening and anoutpouring of of the Lord's
spirit.
And so, um, like we look toother countries who have kind of
faced similar things as we'refacing now, um, and we and we
could take it to extremes evenlike in China, where
Christianity is totally illegal,um, and in public, in worship
that is separated from the state, they have to go into

(17:27):
underground churches and keeptheir worship extremely secret.
We've seen the church absolutelyexplode there and millions upon
millions of Christians arecoming to the faith.
And the gospel is advancing,despite outwardly it looking
hopeless.
Despite outwardly it lookinghopeless maybe our physical

(17:50):
world realities are not alwayswhat is happening in the
spiritual realm and so we seethe gospel will prevail.
Jesus promises that the churchwill always prevail, that the
gates of hell will not standagainst the church, and so the
Lord is still building hischurch, the Lord is still
faithful, but I think for somevalid reasons, and then also

(18:11):
just maybe walking away fromfrom what people would consider
an old way of thinking, which Idon't know.
It still has very, very realrelevance today.

Yeah, so I'm going to throw in my opinion of
course, and I am not.
I'm not in seminary, so, but Ifeel like and this has been my
own personal experience, that'swhy I'm going to speak on it I
feel like in the generationsbefore us it was more tradition
and like you know, I think inthe fifties, where it was just
very the way it was, and I feellike today we are searching for
something different, I searchingfor something different.

(18:48):
I think, you know, the cultureis different, but for me, I find
that and this is not judgmentaland I'm not going to name
religions, I don't care.
I'm just saying in general, Ifeel like a lot of pastors and I
put it on them because thereare, you know, we're supposed to
follow them they're preachingkind of a weak doctrine, a weak
word, that like they don't tellyou the power you have, and I've
like it's hard, but just wait,jesus will help you.
You know it's talk just likethat, and I'm like I need
something that's gonna help me,because sometimes I've been so

(19:08):
depressed, sometimes, dylan, inmy past that like I don't know
if you listen to my podcast, itwas horrible, I thought I was
gonna kill myself and I was insuch mental oppression and it
was like at the end of the day,I didn't know that if I really
dig into the word and I madeexcuses for it and I you know
the world and myself to blamefor like I'm too busy to get in
the word, I don't have timetoday, and like I didn't open
myself up to like really whatGod has for me.

(19:30):
I was a believer and you know, Imean I'm not like some weak
little thing, but at the end ofthe day I didn't open myself up
to it.
And I want, when I findpreachers that are preaching it
and they're powerful and you cantell they believe it and
they're not, just, you know, 30minute service and you're out, I
think.
Do you agree with that or youthink I'm way crazy?

no, I I think that absolutely has validity um
I.
I think that is important toput the ball in the leader's
hands.
Um john maxwell is quote likeeverything rises and falls on
leadership, um I think isabsolutely true in and outside
of the church.
And so putting as much on theleaders, and to me that's not

(20:11):
discouraging, but rather it'sencouraging and makes me want to
do better than maybe previousgenerations have done.
But in the face of that, notall the leaders have been bad
and there's been some tremendousleaders come throughout it.
One thing I would add is that Ithink maybe kind of touch base

(20:31):
with what you said about liketradition is that it's more
culturally acceptable to like goto church and to be a Christian
and to like practice a faith,but maybe within the churches
there was like a higher presenceof people who actually like
just did not believe and werejust going through the motions,
and so now maybe the decline hasbeen people are tired of being

(20:55):
fake and just don't want to putup with that kind of behavior
anymore, and so maybe we've seena decline of people in churches
, but I don't know if we've seena decline of true and genuine
born again followers of jesus Ithink and this is my opinion
again, but from what I watch andwhat I listen to, I think a
revival is happening.

I see it a lot, I mean in all, all of us.
But like younger peopleespecially, are I'm proud of
them right now because they'rethey're not just going with like
this, cancel culture andeverything's bad, and you got to
accept everything.
And and I think that's theproblem with some of the
churches is they're putting likewe're okay to accept this.
Now you have to love thosepeople.
The Bible is very clear aboutthat.
But you don't have to accept it.
You don't accept sin becausethey're harming themselves in it

(21:34):
, they're hurting theirspiritual life and people don't
even realize what sin does toyou.
I mean, really we think, oh,just let me live, I live, I'm
happy.
I have uncles who tell me, oh,I'm gonna be so happy in hell
and I'm like you're not buddy,like you are so disillusioned by
that, and so can you speak tothat at all?
As far as with the youth firingthem up, and what do you
think's changing that?

yeah, especially since you're a youth guy yeah
yeah, so I'm also part of gen zis my generation, yeah, gen z
and then the up and coming, whoare like being born and maybe
like early elementary age, areGen Alpha.
So there's there's not much outon them yet.
But Gen Z and, speaking as aGen Zer, we do not like fakeness

(22:15):
and we don't put up with the BSvery often.
We crave true and genuinerelationships.
We want we want to be hitstraight with it true and
genuine relationships, we wantto be hit straight with it.
And so I think that kind ofwhat you're alluding to is that,
like you want to hear the wordpreached true and clear and with

(22:36):
strength, authoritatively.
And so I think what people arerecognizing, like our souls are
longing for this, and peoplearen't finding satisfaction in
any other avenue, and I'veexperienced this myself too,
like whether it was sports,whether it was relationships or

(22:57):
family, even I'm not finding thesatisfaction that my soul
craves and my soul desires.
And so when, um, you're facedwith the truth and the reality
of Jesus as a Gen Zer andthey're hitting you straight,
they're hitting you bluntly withit Uh, it's really attractive
in, uh, I think it's it'sdrawing people in, um, and then,

(23:18):
ultimately, I think that it'smounted on the prayers of the
generations before us as well.
And there's, just like so manyprayer movements out there,
there's this ministry I've beenleaning into.
It's called the 24-7 PrayerMovement, and they just hit 25
years of nonstop prayer, wow,day and night.

(23:39):
They have schedule, and it'sexploded into this worldwide
movement where there is justpeople praying for prayer, for
mission and for justice to comeinto the world, true and genuine
Jesus centered justice, jesuscentered mission.
And so them, and they're justone of many ministries and one

(24:02):
of many members of the churchwho are praying for things like
this to happen.
And so I think the Lord isfaithful, he responds to prayer.
He wants to answer prayer.
He wants to bless the worldthrough bringing new Christians.

Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with you on
that.
I think, like you were saying,always searching for something.
I think you're right on that,because that's where I was.
I mean, you get in this societyof like, more and more and more
, and for me it was morebusinesses, bigger businesses,
grow and double and all thesethings.
And I think because you workfor me, I mean I was always
passionate about the people Ilove, the people that work for
me and their family to me.

(24:40):
And I, you know, I want to startrealizing, like, when I got
through so much burnout, I waslike this is so, I'm not happy,
I don't care how big thisbusiness is, it's not fun to me
anymore.
And to me I I think when I kindof just laid it on the table
with the Lord and was like Idon't know how to fix this
anymore Cause we as humans tryto fix it ourselves, and it's
like it's, it's like a nightmare, I mean it just never stops
because everything we trydoesn't work.

(25:01):
And so when you turn to theLord and you get in his word and
you just let it go to him everyday, he got me through it and
it got easier and easier and Igot stronger and now I'm so
excited for my quiet time.
I get very serious about that,like when I first get up I'm
going to spend time with theLord.
Because I'm quiet, I haven'tthought about all the things I
have to do.

(25:24):
And at 41, I'm like, oh my gosh,I saw something in the Bible
today that I put, you know, Iput on Facebook for some of my
friends to see, and I'm likethis I never noticed that before
and it's because I wasn'treading it for myself.
And so, even though we talkedabout the pastors, it's
important they teach the rightthing.
We as people also have to bewilling to receive it, because I
could sit there all day and notget a single thing you said
because I'm not paying attention.
I don't want to hear it.
I'm doing my duty, you know.

Yeah, yeah, he who has ears to hear, let him
hear.
Jesus experienced it himself.
Yeah, that people who areclosed off to the message, like
it's just not going to hit, it'snot going to penetrate.
This is coming from the King ofKings and the Lord of Lords,
and so I think we can do our job.
To be faithful.
We can do our job, but faithful.

We can do our job, um, but it only goes so
far and then we have to put itinto the Lord's hands.
Yeah, I have some people in mylife that I love dearly and I'm
just like I.
They don't getting it and I'mlike I don't understand.
We heard the same message.
How did you not hear that?
Like, how are you not so stokedabout that and how do you feel
like you?
I mean, do you just literallyhave to?
Well, see, I hate that.
I just almost said just pray.
Just pray is so powerful Likewe almost get disillusioned that
like just pray for them.

(26:27):
But that is really where ourpower is, cause there's not much
else we can do Right as apastor or anything, does it?
Do you see it any different ofhow to reach them or what to do?

So I think there is an extent of what we can do.
So just one example one of mybest friends maybe my best
friend from high school, the guywho first invited me to go to
youth group he experienced somereally tough mental health
issues for his freshman year ofcollege.
He actually had to go away tothis mental health camp I don't

(26:58):
know what to call it exactly fora few months.
In that camp he really got agrip on his mental health, but
his faith kind of faded away.
And so when he came back, likewhile he was gone was when I had
my experience and my encounterwith Jesus and I was looking
forward to sharing that with himlike so, so excited, and just

(27:19):
seeing where he was at in hisfaith was absolutely crushing.
And so he is a reallyinteresting case because he
believes that historically,jesus rose from the dead, and to
me I'm like, ok, if you believethat happened historically,
then it's just like from therethe dominoes fall and all that

(27:42):
Jesus claimed about himself andhis kingdom is true and
therefore you should put yourtrust and your hope in him.
Um, and so he did that, but hewants to live for himself and
his, his own desires, in his ownway, and so I, him and I, have
had like countless conversations.
Um, actually, my so my bachelorparty before I got married, my

(28:05):
main focus was to get all myfriends who were there, who were
non-Christians, to becomeChristians.
Um, so I spent like the wholetime just like talking about
Jesus and um just just going forit in that realm and him and I
like talked for so many hours onthat trip and yet he just came

(28:27):
away with with nothing.
And so I have been very firmwith him, very persistent with
him, uh, very faithful in mywitness to him, and it's just
gone nowhere.
And so I think it gets to apoint where I'm not going to put
my time and energy and having aconversation with you who are
unreceptive, and so I'm going totry and find somebody who will

(28:49):
listen and who has ears to hearthe message.
And so he's always at the topof my prayer list and I always
persist in prayer and I've seenthe Lord move powerfully through
prayers we've already talkedabout, but just another quick
example.
So I read this book last year.
It's called Praying Like Monks,living Like Fools.

(29:10):
I absolutely recommend.
It Transformed my mind onprayer, but the author of it his
name is Tyler Staton and heshares the story of him in
seventh grade and his youthpastor challenged him to go and
find out the power prayer forhimself.
And so what he did?
He took his little directoryand he prayed for each of his

(29:31):
classmates every day over thesummer and he saw like a mini
revival break out in his middleschool.
And so I'm no longer in schoolin person, but I'm a youth
minister.
And so I went to Central HighSchool alongside my wife and
some of our other youth leadersand we prayer walked Central
High School countless times.

(29:52):
And so September of last year,one of our youth kids who had
absolutely strayed very far fromthe Lord had got mixed up into
some crazy things.
He experienced some deliverancewith my senior pastor and from

(30:12):
there he was just emboldened togo into his school and preach
the gospel.
He was ditching class to preachto his friends Most of the time
.
I'm not pro-ditching class, butif that's the case, then go for
it.
And so our church is like amid-sized church it's not very
big that next Sunday we had over, I think, 60 high schoolers at

(30:32):
our service and we had baptismsfor over a month, every single
week and so just one kid startedit.
One kid started it and that kidin particular seemed hopeless.
But I also seemed hopeless at apoint in my life and my friends
and mentors had prayed for me,and so that's like the back

(30:58):
layer behind my story and myexperience with Jesus is there's
people praying for me literallyat the time where I encountered
the Lord, where it seemed to beas far away as possible from
him.
Christian friends had reachedout to me and tried to call me
out of that, and the day beforethat I told Summer, who's now my

(31:19):
wife.
She said that God has so muchmore in store for me than the
way I was living.
I told her I'm not changinganytime soon.
And the Lord?
I just imagine him chuckling upin heaven, knowing what was
ahead the next day and knowingwhat was to come after that.
But I think in these times ofhopelessness, seemingly to us,

(31:40):
we just trust in the Lord'sfaithfulness.
We turn to him and we turn tohim in faith.

Ultimately, yeah, I think that's really good
.
I mean, it gives me hopelistening to you, cause it makes
me sad for them, cause I'm likeI just want them to get it, you
know, and I used to like dragpeople by the neck like come on
and they just they don't want todo it.
But I also think about on theother side of that, like when
they do have that revelation.
Is it Zoll or Paul in the bible?
He got paul, yeah, yeah, he got.
He was killing christians,right and god met him?

(32:07):
did he blind him?
I can't remember the wholething.

And I mean he became amazing apostle right
yeah, he wrote 13 of the 27books in the new testament so
this is a bad dude and like godjust met him right in the middle
and it wasn't like he wassearching for it, he was hungry
for it, I mean.

So I think about that and you know my
friends aren't that bad, but I'mlike I.
Any minute they can, god can,and that's what I pray is for
god to reach in and touch theirheart that they cannot deny him,
and like they get so and evenif it's something tough on them
that they have to get to thatbottom so they can find him.
Because I think then what isthat testimony going to be for
some of these people that I knowthat are struggling, and when
they find the lord and get thatfreedom?

(32:43):
What how emboldened, like yousaid, they're going to give for
the lord and one person canreach 60.
I mean like yeah we all have ourown realm of influence and who
we touch maybe you can't touchbecause you don't know these
people.
And it's exciting for me toknow that and so it does give me
hope and courage, like pray forthem.
You know, if they ever reachout to me, the ones that aren't
speaking to me right now, likeI'll love on you because I the

(33:04):
bible is very clear about thatand your point is good but I
wasn't always who I was.
I used to be pretty negative.
I was I'll cut you off, noproblem, you know, and the lord
has changed me so much and Ithink we forget about that.
Yeah, like we were a mess atone time, you know, and
thankfully the grace of god isthe only thing that kept me away
from addiction yeah I have someof that, my family, and it's
scary to me, but I wouldn't behere without him.

So yeah, me, me too me neither, and so just
extending the same grace thatwe've been given and the same
grace that has saved us willsustain us yeah, that's really
good, dylan, I can see whyyou're called to this.

um.
Do you mind if I flip gears fora second and ask you just if
there's anyone out there that'slistening in?
Like this dylan guy is cool, Iwant to do what he's doing so in
the ministry school.
Can you tell me what's it like?
Maybe a quick lesson on whatyou learn?
What you, because I think, doyou just learn the Bible?
What do you learn?

No, so I think that would be the main
perception that people wouldhave is, like, ok, like our only
textbook is the Bible yeah, theBible, um, but I also have to
do like regular classes, um, soI, I, I, for my degree, it's
required to do all this prettymuch all the same regular
classes that other people wouldhave to do, like math, um,

(34:16):
science, um, history, so allthose like classic core classes
um, I'm still required for mydegree, and so then once I get
into my degree track so it'skind of similar to typical
college, it's like you'rerequired to do those things.
And then, once you begin yourdegree track, then you get to
actually do the classes that,like, you're excited about and

(34:36):
you want to do, yeah, um, and somine are broken down into like
degree specific, and thenthere's theology classes, and
then there are leadershipclasses, and so I can take a
certain amount of electives, andthen there's like some required
classes for each of those.
And so the Bible I think we canmaybe oversimplify it at times,

(35:00):
but it's like a very complexpiece of literature.
It's written by over 40 authors, it's a collection of 66 books
written on three differentcontinents over the span of 1500
years, and so there is like aton of culture and a ton of
history and a ton of just studysurrounding into the different
cultures and religions at thetime, the different influences

(35:24):
that there might be on theauthors and some of the things
they're referencing and quotingand the places that they're
going, and so there is like justa whole other world of studying
that goes into like pullingapart the layers.
I think in general the Bible isunderstandable, but then there's

(35:45):
like a different layer that youcan get to um, a different
level of understanding that likejust unlocks in your mind when
you understand that this bookthat I'm reading had a different
original audience, and so liketrying to put your mind in the
mind of the original audienceand so what did this mean to
them?
And then from there it's likewhat is the Lord trying to speak

(36:10):
through this scripture?
Is there like a universal truthI can pull from it, like what
is this the principle and howcan I translate this ancient
truth into the modern day?
And so there's been, like I'vehad Old Testament survey class.
I've gone through every singlebook of the Old Testament, new
Testament, survey, hermeneutics,which is the art of studying

(36:33):
the Bible.
I'll take a homiletics classwhich is like preaching, because
that's an essential part ofministry.
Cultural anthropology is arequired course, so
understanding how differentcultures function and work and
how to best reach people who aredifferent from you is a
required course.
So understanding how differentcultures function and work, um,
and, and how to best reachpeople who are different from
you, um, so there's like a veryvast range, and then like

(36:56):
systematic theology, biblicaltheology and just getting into
the nitty gritty and, um, I nerdout on it and absolutely love
it, but for some people it'slike what are these crazy words
that this dude is saying?

I think it sounds fascinating.
I mean to really understand.
Like you said, it was writtenat a different time but it can
still apply to all the thingshappening and the different
cultures, and what they weregoing through is maybe different
than us, but it still applies.
I have to ask because I'm abusiness person.
Do they teach you any kind ofbusiness stuff, Because and I
don't mean this at all bad, butlike business, churches are a
business they have to pay theirbills, so do they teach you that

(37:30):
side too as well.

Yeah, so I actually go to the same school
that my pastor went to, and hewent many years ago and
something that he told them theywish they had was more of like
the practical leadership inministry and like more of the
administrative type classes, andso now that this school is more
established, they do have someof those classes and so, um, I

(37:53):
actually had you do a videointerview and it was for an
organizational leadership class.
So it wasn't like churchleadership specifically, uh, but
we went through and learnedabout, like, several types of
leadership and, uh, the book weuse.
I have a friend who she wasdoing her master's over at cmu
and it was the same exact bookthat we used for ours, uh, a

(38:17):
bible college, as they're usingum at a secular university, um.
So I think those principleswere very important.
And then I also took a churchadministration class, um, that
kind of walk through some ofthose specifics, and I've also
had a lot of hands-on experiencewith that, like being on our
board, um and just dealing withthe reality that there are bills
that we need to pay Um, andlike operating as a nonprofit in

(38:43):
the United States, or likeregulations that we have to meet
and keep um records that wehave to keep Um, and there's a
ton that goes into it.

Yeah, well, I'm glad that they teach you all
that.
It does sound interesting.
Um, how long is it?
Two year program, or how long?

It's a four year bachelor's.
Oh, bachelor's.
You said yeah.

Okay, and your school's here locally or
you online?
No, I'm online, so yeah, myschool is in North Carolina.

It's called Manna University, okay, yep, and as
far as Bible colleges go, theyhave like incredible online
program and it's one of the moreaffordable universities.

So how are you led to that?
Did the I mean obviously theLord showed it to you, or did
you know about this at somepoint?

So when considering initially like even
before I knew Linda Kemp wasaround, um, I had looked into
their programs and my pastor hadsome influence in where I went
and so like, but I think whatultimately sealed the deal was
just like how solid their onlineprogram was and I knew I wasn't

(39:40):
going to move anywhere.
Uh, definitely feel called toGrand Junction.

So what has been the most challenging aspect
of your study so far.

I think it is definitely the management of
time, because I have a full-timejob, basically in full-time
ministry, have a couple ofdifferent roles at the church am

(40:09):
a absolutely full-time husband,have incredible community,
still have family that I'm incontact with and full-time
student.
So how do you manage all that?
Um, barely, uh.
It's the honest answer, butsomething I learned from Craig
Rochelle, who is a pastor andhas an incredible leadership
podcast is to schedule based onyour values and your priorities.
And so I went through andbasically built a schedule for

(40:31):
myself, and the first thing Iput on there is time with my
wife.
Absolutely value that.
I think I actually put timewith God on there first, then
time with my wife, so we have adate night every single week.
So we're prioritizing that.
We do a lot of our ministrytogether, which is awesome, but
just like time that's separatefrom that, that's not work

(40:54):
focused.
And so I went through and builta schedule based on my
priorities and so I basicallylike forced myself to do things
at different times and sometimeslife gets crazy and gets in the
way and things slip away and,um, luckily, a lot of my
professors are are very graciouswhen those things happen, and

(41:16):
so I've been able to get throughit.
But, looking back, maybe I needto take a little bit less
classes every now and then, butit's it's good and I get through
it and absolutely live afulfilling life.

I think that's absolutely important to
you especially.
I should get older and theneventually you have kids.
I mean, we talked about that aton here.
Every I would say pretty muchevery business owner I've talked
to other than one young kid whostill he's like walkers, mobile
detailing yes, good friend he'sgreat, but I'm like he's still
young, it hasn't.
You know.
He doesn't have a husband or awife, or hey he just got engaged
.

Oh, did he?

yeah, I didn't know that he details my
car.
Wait till I see him.
That's fantastic anyway.
So for me it's like you have towatch the burnout.
You have to watch doing toomuch, because it just businesses
especially that's who myaudience was.
It just it's a beast man.
It takes over your life.
And for me, because I work withmy husband, same thing.
I see him all day at work, butit's we don't.
We've been bad about the datenights and with him 23 years and

(42:13):
I'm like, well, I know youyou'll be there, but that's not
fair, cause I'm like he's toldme that in the past like I'm
sick of work.
It sounds like you've got itright and I'm sure the Lord will
kind of help direct you Becauseif you listen to him he will
show you these are areas you'regoing to watch out for, but I
was going to ask you do theyhave any like internship or

(42:34):
hands on?
Do you go out and like?
Because I have a Jonas thatworks for me.
His brother, Dennis, is goingto Revival Today's Bible school
and so they have to do so manyoutreach programs, and does your
program require that at all?

So there is an internship that is offered that
you can do like on site, but asan online student how they kind
of keep us accountable is youeither have to do like one per
semester, you have to do likeone missions project or you need
to be regularly serving at yourchurch which is what you and so
mine gets taken care of likevery easily yeah um, just by how

(43:15):
I'm living my life and doingthings.

So is it, um, is there pressure going into
what you're doing?
I've talked to a lot ofministers kids and they're like,
oh, it was hard.
You know it was a lot ofpressure, we had to be perfect.
And do you feel that at all?
Becoming what you're going tobe as a minister or a traveling
minister, whatever it is you endup doing do you feel pressure
at all?

For parenting a little bit I'm like so excited
to be a father.

Nothing yet right.

No news, yet no news yet, but, yeah, I cannot
wait to be a father.
I'm so excited for it.
I think that my pastor has donelike an absolutely phenomenal
job in raising kids Hands downthe best parent I know.
Another mentor of mine has alsodone an incredible job of
raising just like true andgenuine godly kids who love the

(44:02):
Lord.
And so I have some great menand women who have gone before
me and have done a great jobparenting to learn from and to
get tips on.
My parents did a phenomenal jobraising me, but I have in my

(44:25):
life Like I don't know.
It gives me a little bit ofconfidence in like, in
hopefulness that, like Summerand I, summer's, my wife, will
raise some absolutely incrediblekids.

Yeah, I think what I've seen and this is just
my opinion, but it seems likethe ones that struggled a lot
their parents.
They were traveling ministersand they were just gone a lot
and I understand they're doingthe Lord's work, but I don't.
I believe that you can stillspend time with your family and,
like when you are home, be veryinvolved with them you know,
because quality time is moreimportant than just time.

Yeah, and that's something that our pastor has
demonstrated phenomenally wellis that, in addition to having a
full date day, they have awhole family day, um, and so
family is always prioritized, um, and he's modeled really well
that our family is our firstministry, and so, whether that's
just my wife and I prioritizethat relationship, and then

(45:16):
whether it's him and his kids orother pastors on our staff,
family always comes first.

Yeah, I used to talk to Eric about that
because at the time he had threeof his own and Charmaine, I
think, had three, and thatsounds right, and two I, I don't
know, but it's a lot.
And so I would always tell him,like I know you're working
Monday through Friday, but youhave the nights, you have
weekends and the kids are inschool and then you know some
days he would take off to spendwith them.
But I'm like it's so importantwhen you're there, be present.
You know, don't be on yourphone, don't be texting, don't

(45:43):
be on facebook, because you'represent but you're not there and
to me, that is more importantthan just having someone around
that's ignoring you all day.
So, yeah, what about you, as aman does?
Do you feel pressure, as, likeI, have to be an excellent
pastor.

I'm a perfectionist, so I struggle
with that, but yeah, I I thinkthere are standards that I must
uphold and I I don't necessarilyknow if I feel pressure, but I
guess a deep responsibility todo these things and to live a
specific way.
But ultimately, jesus says thathis yoke is easy and his burden

(46:18):
is light, and so I found a lotof joy in following him and
living as he desires us to live.
His commandments are notburdensome, but they actually
produce life and bring life tous.
So, as a pastor, I think that Icould, like a lot of people can
, feel that this necessity to befake and conceal things.

(46:41):
But the standard for us is notperfection, but it's living to
the best of our abilities and asclose to these qualifications
that we can as possible.
And so in doing so, there'salways going to be times where
we fall short in some certainarea of life, as we are not yet
perfected, as we're not Jesus,and so in doing that, I think it

(47:07):
has um opened my mind tovulnerability, and so I actually
meet with a group of guys everysingle week and we confess sins
to one another and we pray foreach other, um, and we're just
super open, honest andvulnerable.
Uh, because a lot of these likebig failures that happen in
pastors don't start off as bigfailures, but they're these

(47:28):
smaller things that have goneunchecked for years and years
and years and then they explodeinto this huge thing, and so I'm
trying to cut off these littlethings at the source, get them
out in the open while they needto be, and so very vulnerable,
very open Again.
I have some incrediblespiritual leaders who have gone
before me and modeled this, andwhen there has been things I've

(47:51):
needed to talk to them about,they've been open, honest with
me and shown me grace.
So I do think it could possiblyget to a point where it's too
problematic and pastors have tostep down.
That's just a reality.
It's a very unfortunate reality, but I'm doing the best I can
to prevent that from ever beinga reality for us.

Yeah, no, I do get that.
I mean it's unfortunate somethings that come out, but I'm
like I try to remember they'rehuman beings.
I mean they're still imperfectmen.
I mean I know the Lord cangrant you a lot of grace and
help you and guide you, butwe're people and we make
mistakes and to just be sounforgiving is hard for me.
I forgive quick if you apologizeand you mean it Talking about
what you were saying?

(48:32):
As far as the standards youseem like, from what I've known
of you you always seem like anupright kind of guy and I think
that comes from probably howyour parents raised you the Lord
and then, like you said, beingauthentic and genuine.
People in your congregation aregoing to feel that from you
when you're pastoring them,because you can tell if
someone's kind of full of it orif they're just saying it here.
But you see them later and theyact different, you know.

Yeah, you can do it for you can.
You can be fake for so longbefore it just spills out.

Yeah, and the longer you get to know someone,
the more real it becomes.
What about, um, I think thesupport you were saying is
excellent.
Uh, as a guy, I think I agreewith you and that's probably
true for even you, just as dylan, the man right like, have a
support group, have buddies thatyou can talk to.
I like having real people in mylife that are like they're
honest, they don't have to bemean, but they could be like
you're messing up kind of rightnow, or what you said was really

(49:16):
not right, or whatever, so thatway you don't just have yes,
men around you because, yeah, Idon't think that's good no, not
at all yeah okay, um, do youhave anything else to add on
that part before we move to thenext one?

um, yeah, I think it's interesting.
So just back to like theconfessing aspect, um, james,
chapter 5, verse 16, saysconfess your sins to one another
so that you may be healed, forthe prayer of a righteous person
is powerful and effective.
And so it's really interestinghow god says for our healing,
for our forgiveness, confess to.
God says for our healing, forour forgiveness, confess to him,
but for our healing, confess toone another.

(49:50):
And so it's again justemphasizing the essential nature
of living in godly community.
And so church for me, and Ithink biblically, extends far
beyond Sundays, but it's livingin community throughout the week
, prioritizing those kingdomrelationships in and out, no
matter what.

Yeah, I was reading Ephesians 4 today and it
was talking about how weshouldn't fight with each other
and we need to stay united.
And it talked about how we areall a part of the body of.
Christ and we all have a specialjob to do.
It's so important because Ithink the devil likes us to
fight and division.
Today, everywhere, everybodyhas so much division and it's
like we just need to love eachother and watch out for each

(50:30):
other, and we may not all agree,but sometimes, I think that's
where amazing things happens andwe don't agree, we get some
innovation that comes out ofthat, you know.
So I think that's important.
So, if you're listening, I'mgoing to talk about this at the
end.
But what is enjoy church?

You said right and you're in grand junction.
Yep, enjoy church in grandjunction.
We're off seventh and grand.
We share a building with firstbaptist church beautiful old
building.
It's the oldest church buildingin grand junction actually.
Um, yeah, I serve as our kidspastor and youth pastor and our
board of elders credible churchof just people trying to follow
jesus as best as we can yeah, doyou guys have a like?

do you do YouTube or on Facebook?
Do you go live or anything?

Our live stream is very poor.

It's just in a Facebook group.

We're working on it.
It's in progress.

That'd be great for anyone not listening
Come in person, if you can.
Yeah.

If you're in Grand Junction, we'd love to
have you.

Love show?
Okay, because I do have.
I mean, I have a lot oflisteners that are from
minnesota and they travel inwith their trailers and all this
stuff and so I'm like they'realways traveling and driving and
so I'm like, oh, we shouldanytime I can get someone to
listen online or something great.

But yes, I agree, come if my husband and actually
jonas were there yesterday oh,no, yeah they stopped by, and
when they come to check it out,I was serving with the kids, so
okay they saw your wife.

They know she was there.
Uh, she got promoted to thefinancials or whatever it's
called yeah, so very cool.
Can I ask you a couple morequestions before we move on?

Yeah.

So I do want to get into leadership, but this
kind of pertains to that Forcriticism or conflict within
your team or your congregation.
How would you and maybe youdon't even fully have the answer
because you're still inschool, but how?
Would you handle that?
You don't even fully have theanswer because you're still in
school, but how would you handlethat?
Because that applies tobusiness?
How do we handle that stuff,especially in a godly way?

yeah, so I.
I think who is giving thecriticism a lot of times matters
, um, and so people who arereally close to me.
I welcome their criticism andwill check my life and check
myself very easily and withoutmuch fighting back, and that has
taken a lot of work.
I tend to be a very like notnot too emotional of a person

(52:34):
and so, like, very logicallyminded, if you're going to point
out something and it makessense to me that that's the way
it is, I'm not going to put uptoo much fight.
Yet I also love being right,and so there might be some fight
back there.
But with those people who areclosest to me, those leaders who
are above me, I am going to bevery receptive of their feedback

(52:55):
, and what works best for me inthose situations is like very
direct, blunt feedback, even ifit like could come across mean
or harmful to other people likeI.
I love it, I thrive off it.
I always have, uh, the coachesgrowing up who coached me um, in
sports, the the stricter ones Ialways loved and everyone else

(53:17):
hated them, um, but so thosepeople absolutely gonna welcome
it.
Um, I guess you just like backit up a layer, like if it's
people who I like are somewhatacquaintances and they're saying
stuff and they're bold enoughto bring it to me.
I'm absolutely going toconsider it, um.
And then there are just somepeople in the world who are

(53:38):
haters, um, and they're going tocome at you for some things
that might be valid or or theymight not be, and so, um, if I
don't even really know them, I'mgoing to bring it to my
community, live with greatcommunity, so great
relationships.
Bring to my leaders, if it'sspecifically in the church
context, and ask them if there'slike any validity with it.

(53:59):
And if there's not, then I'mnot going to take it to heart.
Really, I'm going to try andmove on from it, try and brush
it off.
But when it comes to conflict,I think that conflict is best
dealt with with us, like beingdirect and bringing it to people
.
But that's not like an excusefor being rude or doing it in a

(54:23):
harmful way.
Excuse for being rude or doingit in a harmful way.
In Matthew, chapter 18, jesuskind of gives us some guidelines
behind, like when a brothersins against you.
So he says to first go to thatperson, one-on-one talk to them
and then if what you confrontthem with.
They don't listen, then bringanother person with you the next

(54:44):
time who has also experiencedwhatever area they've fallen
short in.
And if they don't listen, thenbring the elders with you.
And if they still don't listen,then the guideline it sounds
kind of harsh, but it's to dealwith them as they're an
unbeliever, and so I think, tosome extent, jesus' heart is
always reconciliation.

(55:05):
It's always to bring thatperson back.
But if they're going to fightwhat you're trying to bring to
them, if they're going to fightthe correction, the
accountability that you're goingto hold them to, then that's
where you really fall short.
And then I guess, speaking moreon this topic, some people will
say like well, aren't Christianslike not supposed to judge at

(55:28):
all?
And Jesus says he does not sayto not judge at all, but he says
to judge rightly and not tojudge hypocritically.
And so I think that's an areaof the church has fallen short
is like we have been veryhypocritical, um, and that's
driven so many people away, andso we're allowed to hold one

(55:49):
another accountable, um, infirst Corinthians, chapter five,
the apostle Paul is talkingabout holding believers
accountable.
But then, when we're looking tothe world, he says like what,
what would you expect?
They don't know Jesus?
Uh, they don't love Jesus, likethat's what we are to expect is
that they would not befollowing him.
And so judgment to the outsideris should not necessarily I mean

(56:14):
, there's certain circumstanceslike absolutely step in if
someone's life is in danger orif it's really harmful, but
ultimately, like we should liveto build up the body of Christ
and call each other out and holdeach other accountable, cause,
as you, as you mentioned earliera lot of times we just don't
recognize how harmful the sin isin our life.
Um, and God's not just callingthings sin because he doesn't

(56:36):
like him, but he wants what'sbest for us and living his way
and is what brings us thefullness of joy and is what
brings us the life that is trulylife well, when you look at a
lot of that sin and it's likethe, you know it may bring you
temporary pleasure, but I'm likeyou're gonna sit in guilt or
yeah all these things thathappen and you don't even know
it and I mean, I know a lot ofpeople with addiction problems

(56:59):
and I'm like, come on, man, likeyou, it feels good at the
moment, but then you're hungover, you don.

You don't feel good the next day, you've
destroyed your relationshipswith your family, your friends,
whatever.
And it's like the Lord wantsyou to rise above that, not
because he's like, don't haveany fun.
There's so much grossness andsadness and depression in that
and yeah, I think it's.
It's to me, when I have peoplein that in my life that are open
to saying like this thatno-transcript for me, and I know

(57:33):
who you are and I know yourcharacter, it's hard to take
advice from someone that'sliving not a very clean life
yeah, so I'm like what are youtalking about?
I mean um?
What's that saying about?
Don't stick a log in your yeahor something.

So don't take the speck out of your brother's eye
.
Um, until you take the log outof your own eye yeah it's
essentially what jesus is sayingin matthew chapter 7 yeah,
which I do believe.

The lord cleans your life up as you go
and I think a lot of peoplethink that they have to be clean
to get into church, but it'slike come dirty, you know, and
if I have a better way to saythat.

But come in, man, and he'll clean you up yep, so
jesus, he I think it's markchapter two, it's somewhere else
, in a different gospel as well,uh.
But he says it is not thehealthy who need the doctor, but
the sick.
For I did not come to call therighteous but to call sinners,
and I think the what he's sayingthere is that we all need to

(58:26):
recognize that we are sick andin need of a Savior before we
can enter into his kingdom.
If we think that we'rerighteous and we got it on our
own, or even if we think we'retoo messy to be healed by the
healer of healers, the king ofkings.
He came for those peoplespecifically.
The King of Kings, he came forthose people specifically.

(58:49):
He centered his life aroundreaching people who were
unlikely to be reached by theculture and the religion at the
time because they thought theywere too good.
So I think when we recognizethat we're broken and we cannot
do it on our own, it's honestlya better position to be in to
receive Christ than thinking yougot it yourself.

Yeah, I mean he touched the lepers he ate
with sinners.
I mean that's his people,because that's who needed him.
If you think about it and Ithink that's also part of I'm
probably going to catch theflack for this but the older
churches that are oldergeneration, there's not a lot of
life in it.
If I would say that it'sbecause they they've got him and
they don't need him and theydon't really do much outreach
and I'm like, but you guys gothim, someone else still needs
him.
You know that's your job now.

(59:28):
You found him.
Now go help get others savedand free, you know?

yeah, yeah a lot of um.
There's this pastor who leadsan organization called
practicing the way.
Absolutely recommend digginginto the resources, uh.
But he has summed updiscipleship to Jesus in these
three broader categories.
And so it's to be with Jesus,to become like Jesus and to do
as he did.

(59:52):
And so we all enter into thisrelationship with Jesus at
ground zero.
In God's eyes, we are righteous, we've been made right.
We are cleansed by the blood ofJesus.
In God's eyes, we are righteous, we've been made right, we are
cleansed by the blood of Jesus.
But there's this battle betweenour new nature and our old
nature.
We're still in the flesh, butwe're filled with the Holy

(01:00:17):
Spirit.
So Galatians 5 expounds on this, talking about like the fruits
of the Spirit and not walking inthe flesh and gratifying the
desires of our flesh, but ratherseeking to walk and live in the
Spirit.
And so there's this constanttension and this constant battle
, and all of this while we'rebeing transformed in the image
of Christ, becoming more andmore like Him.
And so that's part of livinghere on earth now is this

(01:00:40):
spiritual formation into thelikeness of Jesus, becoming like
him, doing the things that hedid, being with him, just
prioritizing that, and that,first and foremost, we see that
Jesus constantly went to be withthe Father and prioritize that
time with him.
And you're like, bro, jesus didthat, like how much more do I
have to do that?
And so be with Jesus, becomelike Jesus.

(01:01:03):
And then it's not necessarilylike a solid flow, but kind of
so be with him, become like himand then go and do as he did.
And we see that he isconstantly others focused.
He's never once focused onhimself, but he's.
How can I help the next person?
How can I love my neighbor andlike?
Love your neighbor as yourselfis to like I think we're

(01:01:27):
naturally selfish a lot of thetime and so we're self-seeking
and to love your neighbor asyourself is quit loving yourself
and spend that love on yourneighbor and in those around you
yeah, it's that agape kind oflove yes, yeah um, I forgot I
was gonna say about that.

Tammy Hershberger (01:01:44):
Uh, I just think back to myself.
I'm like I I got, I don't evenknow.
I was in my 20s then I gotsaved and I wasn't living this
crazy, horrible life, but I justwas like whatever.
And I was actually getting kindof demonized by these horrible
nightmares and these depression.
Anxiety was starting to hit andso it just kind of I took you
know jesus, my lord and savior,at my kitchen table with my
friend telling me, and then Iwent on and I started to realize

(01:02:05):
like I don't even I couldn'tsay one specific moment changed
my life, but like over time Ibecame less pessimistic.
I'm now an optimist.
I believe there's so much goodin life.
And I remember one time ACDCwas coming into Salt Lake and I
lived in Wyoming and I was likeI have to go to that and my
friend Dan Miller was like Iwouldn't go to that and he
wasn't being judgmental.
But he was like I'm just notinto that anymore and I was like

(01:02:26):
I thought to myself, what if hewasn't being judgmental?
But in my mind I was like whata judgmental prick I was.
Like I think I literally said Iwill never not go to that today
.
I have no interest in that.
I mean, I like the music.
The words are terrible, youknow, highway to hell, mistress
for Christmas, not good.
And I think to myself like thatjust naturally changed for me
Now.
I love worship music and Iremember one time I was such a

(01:02:48):
mental.
I had a friend who was lovingGod in the senior year of high
school and I was like she'sweird.
And I remember we were outcanoeing and drinking and she
comes down with her Christianchurch or whatever and they're
singing God songs.
I remember thinking like, oh mygosh, she's coming, don't hide,
she see us.
And now I'm like I was.
I'm proud of her for that atthat age.
But I think it just changes youso much over time.
It's not one moment and I don'tremember it being beaten in my

(01:03:11):
head.
It was just showing up for godevery day.

Dylan Morrill (01:03:13):
Yep yep, and that that's how it happens is
consistency over a long time.
Uh, eugene peterson, whoauthored the message version of
the bible, okay, he has a quotethat discipleship is long
obedience in the same direction,and so that's exactly what
you've experienced, tammy, isthat putting in the work, day by

(01:03:33):
day, piece by piece, coming tothe Lord with open hands.
His spirit is absolutely goingto work in us, it's absolutely
going to transform us and again,he's faithful.

Yeah, he's very faithful.
And you think you said beingobedient.
You're being obedient tosomething.
Either you know meditating inthe devil and the bad things, or
you're obedient to drinking allthe time, or you're obedient to
doing whatever you want, or youcan put it to something that
actually can change your life.
That's why I bring you on,because I want people to hear
this stuff.
Like it's not just one guysaying it, it's all of us who

(01:04:04):
were not perfect people.
We still are not and we'restill trying.
And we're still trying toredeem ourselves, but we realize
that we are redeemed throughChrist.
Like we don't have to earn it,we just have to show up every
day.
That's how I see it.
I mean, maybe that's wrong, butokay.

Love it.

Uh, we're getting to the end here.
Um, I want to ask you on thisas far as leaders, how do you
feel it's best to empower yourpeople from your perspective?

Yeah, I think so.
My leadership is specificallywithin the church.
It can kind of be appliedelsewhere, though, I think.

I guarantee it can.

So, for my leaders, something that I've
tried to do is empower them intheir different giftings, and so
one of my best friends is oneof my youth leaders and I've let
him try teaching before.
I have a pretty strong teachinggifting.
My wife has like one of themost insane teaching giftings

(01:04:58):
ever.
She's incredible.
But let him teach before andwithout, like, just being blunt.
Blunt, he did not do very well.
But you stick him in a toughsituation with anyone.
He is going to help walk themthrough that.
He is going to help love themthrough that.
He is maybe the bestrelationship builder I've ever

(01:05:20):
met.
You throw him into a room andhe'll come out with like 50
friends Um, absolutelyincredible.
Has been empowered by God tojust love people through
relationships and help themthrough tough situations.
And so, um, I don't utilize himfor teaching but, like I have a
tough situation, I havesomebody that who's an outlier

(01:05:42):
in our youth ministry, like astudent who really needs
somebody.
I'm going to like I think I dodecent in those situations, but
this dude does incredibly welland so I'm going to have him
step up and lead in that area.
If there are other leaders whohave different strengths and
different weaknesses.
We're going to work throughthose and we're going to have a

(01:06:04):
place and a space for them tolead and step up in.
And our youth ministry is alittle bit different than your
typical youth ministry, whereour main focus is actually on,
like, smaller groups, and sothis kind of takes the focus off
, like the one leader, and itgives our other leaders
opportunities to speak into thelives of our students and to um

(01:06:26):
it really empowers them to beinfluential in their lives.
So we we have pretty highstandards for our leaders.
Um I basically only inviteleaders in to join our ministry.
Um, like, we don't have like anopen application or anything.
But if I see something insomebody and I invite them in to
be our leader, then um, it'shopefully honorable to them,

(01:06:47):
because we do not choose umsparingly.
So we or I guess we do choosesparingly.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, just like releasing them in their
giftings, and so that's notalways easy, um, you have to sit
with them, you have toexperiment, um, and sometimes
you're going to see them fall ontheir face, and that's okay,
cause we're all going to learnfrom it.
We're all going to learn ourdifferent strengths and
weaknesses.
Um, and then also big CraigRochelle guy, like something

(01:07:19):
that he said and I think hestole it from somebody else, but
it's like when somebody can dosomething like 70% as well, as
you like, give it to them to do.
And just the art of delegation,which is also very biblical,
like we see in Exodus, chapter18, moses's father-in-law is.
He tells him, he says whatyou're doing is not good, and

(01:07:41):
then he gives them like verydetailed instructions of how to
delegate his leadershipthroughout the people of Israel
and empower other leaders.
Um, and so I think, the morethat I can give away and gift
people to do, as long as it's intheir gifting, um, as long as
you're doing decently well at it, then they have the room to

(01:08:02):
grow and transform into anexceptional leader.
And it really, I don't know.
The math of the kingdom of Godis multiplication, absolutely.
It's not just addition, it'smultiplying.
I think you mentioned earlier,like you save one person and
then that one person can reach60 more.

They become your army.
I mean truly Well, and I likethat because, see, I'm telling
you this all applies.
I mean I takeathan schell'sworth stuff all the time and I'm
like this is absolutely he'shaving ministry stuff.
And I'm like this is businesstoo, because we have to be good
leaders and know what our people.
Maybe you hired someone andthey're not good at that
position, yeah, but you find abetter position and so they.
There's a saying find the rightpeople, get them on the bus and
get them in the right seats.

(01:08:39):
And being I feel like that'sgood because the Lord can give
you the wisdom of like, thisguy's not quite great at this,
but he's so much better at thisso I can move him to that spot.
You know, sometimes it's harderin business.
You might have to keep themthere for a minute until you can
figure it out.
But and then also, like yousaid, your guy he's he's an
attractor.
Basically, he's going toattract people.
He put him out there and lethim talk to people and people

(01:09:00):
get excited and come hang outand come to your church, and so
I think that's a great, that wasreally great.
Thank you, dylan, you're sosmart.
You make me like dumb on this.
I'm like dude.
You don't even need me to justkeep talking.

I love it.

Thank you, um , I want to ask a couple of
questions on leadership and Ihave one more thing for you.
So I think you already talkedabout Christlike leadership, but
do you, do you understand, forthe business side, why I want
this podcast?
Because I want people to seelike you don't have to be afraid
.
Corporate makes it so scary tobring God into your business.
You almost can't.
So in our small businesses wecan do that.
Now.
I'm not going to discriminateagainst you.
I've had non-believers andwhatever, but they don't tend to
stay because they don't lovewhat we believe in.

(01:09:36):
You know the way we are, but Ithink we can use that to promote
people, help promote the gospel, I mean.
That's why I always told youguys in our meetings like, don't
push your religion on people,but if people want to talk to
you about it, absolutely talk tothem.
I am so cool with that and, lookat, god blessed you with that,
and so we need businesses likemine, like people to go out that
are listening, that arebelievers, to get out there and
be strong and hire thosebelievers and help.

(01:09:57):
I mean, I'm happy to only haveyou for whatever time I did,
because you had something elseGod had for you, and I never get
sad when people leave mebecause they're going to go
start their business or they'regoing to do something else or
they're going into ministry,because that means I'm helping
them get to where they'resupposed to be.
Find your purpose.

Yeah, I think you're touching on a very
important concept, and so Ithink a lot of times we can see
ministry as just for a specialgroup of specific people, the
people on the stage on Sunday.
Like that's who ministry is for.
You referenced Ephesians,chapter 4 earlier, which is
actually pertinent to this, andverses 11 and 12 say Christ gave

(01:10:38):
the apostles, prophets,evangelists, pastors and
teachers.
And then the Apostle Paul goeson to say for what purpose?
And it is to equip the saintsfor the work of ministry.
And so it doesn't say thatthose people go and do the
ministry.
It's not all the pastors doingthe ministry, but rather our
role and our job is to equipfollowers of Jesus to go out

(01:11:01):
into the world and to doministry in their various
workplaces Jesus to go out intothe world and to do ministry in
their various workplaces.
And sometimes, like I've been inministry for a few years now, I
have seen people who've, likethought they were called to
ministry just because they, likeread their Bible every day and

(01:11:22):
like are somewhat interested intheology.
But they also are, like, verygifted in other areas and like
the Lord has blessed their mindto be able to be an engineer or
something.
And so I would say that, likeit's just as valuable for you to
be an engineer and be a goodgodly influence in your
workplace than it would be tobecome a pastor, and so the
pastoral role is, like, veryspecific and like we do ministry

(01:11:45):
.
Yet our role is to equip peopleto do ministry.
So while I was working atStarbucks for almost three years
, that place attracts people whoare not too fond of
Christianity.

Yeah, I can believe it.

And so what I tried to do there was different
than what I had tried in a lotof other places, I don't know.
I guess before that I had beenvery outright and bold.
I was like you know, I'm goingto preach the gospel.
Don't really care what youthink, here's the gospel Respond

(01:12:21):
and receive it.
And so I intentionally wentinto Starbucks before I even met
any of my coworkers and I waslike I'm going to try something
different and I'm just going tolove these people.
Well, I'm going to buildrelationships, I'm going to pray
for them and I'm going to lookfor opportunities every single
day, um to show them the lightof Christ or to like, share my
faith.

(01:12:41):
And so, um, I encounteredhundreds of customers daily.
I prayed for several customers,built incredible relationships.
A coworker of mine inparticular, like he had gone to
church growing up and was awayfrom church, was able to
reintroduce him to church.
Another friend of mine she alsowas far away from church

(01:13:04):
brought her back to the church.
There's people who theirperceptions of Christians and
Christianity were all negativeand so, after working with me
for years on end, now have likepositive views of the church.
Some of them maybe have morepositive view of me than the
church.
But I point all glory to Jesusin that, and so I was able to do

(01:13:28):
so much ministry throughStarbucks, so much ministry
through window cleaning, um,just looking for those
opportunities, not being tooforceful.
But it's all rooted ingenuinely loving and caring for
these people.
And when I know the life changethat I've experienced through
Jesus, um, life change that I'veexperienced through Jesus, the
hope I've experienced throughJesus, just all goodness through

(01:13:50):
Jesus, like I want those I loveto also experience this, and so
it kind of takes away theburden of like trying to force
this message on someone just sothey'll believe a certain set of
things.
But I want them to encounterthe living God who has the
ability to transform any life inanybody.

Yeah, it's a relationship, it's not a
religion.
People say, oh, you'rereligious.
I'm like, no, not really.
I have a relationship with myfather.
I mean, that is very differentin my opinion.
I do love that, so I'll keepthis short, but I've talked
about it on a podcast before,but for me, I was watching this
Jim Baker and it's not the scaryJim Baker that got in trouble,
so it's a different guy.
Anyway, he was talking about inbusiness and he's
business-minded, but he's abeliever, he's a pastor, and so

(01:14:27):
he was teaching that like yourbusiness can be your ministry.
And I kept thinking like, for along time, I'm just, you know,
I'm a capitalist, but I'm notgreedy person.
you know, and at the other day Iwas like I'm not out pastoring
and I'm not out doing missiontrips, maybe I'm not following
the word of god.
And then I listened to this guyand I'm like that's not true,
because my business is myministry, because I'm going to
bring God through my employeesas much as I can hire.

(01:14:49):
I mean, like I said, they comein but some don't stay and that
they can treat my customersAmazing.
We're going to and if you lookat reviews you can tell we treat
people different because wecare about them, all of my guys.
If you go into that, my otherlittle lunchroom over here,
there's bibles on the tableevery lunchtime.
They have sermons going becausethey all are believers and I
love coming and listening tothem talk about the lord and I
hear them out back with theirmusic blaring and it's, you know

(01:15:11):
, christian music and it remindsme that, like I'm making a
difference with my employees, Itouch them, I touch their
families.
Then they go home and they, youknow, love their wives, they're
good to their families.
My customers are treated well,they're not being taken
advantage of by non-believers orsome say they are and they're
not.
And so I think when you startto get the revelation of.
Like you said, we all have apart to play.
Just stand in that and then askthe Lord what do you want from

(01:15:34):
me today?
Who do you want me to witnessto?
Because I love that.
Because Starbucks is a hardenvironment and you went in with
a good smile and you showedpeople who are real, good,
honest, authentic Christian is.
I love that.

Yeah, and just one other aspect to touch on is,
like your dudes, building thesheds can build that shed to the
glory of God and the building,the shed in and of itself, can
be glorifying to the Lord if wedo it with the right heart and
the right intentions and we doit well.
We see throughout history thatoftentimes the best artists, the

(01:16:06):
best architects, they werefollowers of Jesus who were just
trying to glorify him throughtheir craft.
That's really good and so Ithink that in the modern day we
can forget that doing these goodthings and bringing good
culture and good creations tothe world is honoring to our
Father.

Yeah, and then these guys who are honest,
hardworking, they look out forus, we look out for them.
I mean, they're honoring God bydoing a good job for me.
I mean truly, and God will takecare of them.
I had a story come to mind.
I don't know if you can talkabout it or not, but I remember
being at your church and youwere talking about you had the
pop rocks and you had to go backto the dollar store and you
thought you were supposed topray for her.
The cashier was it.

(01:16:42):
I'm butchering the story, but Ijust remember thinking like I
love that your heart was so open, even though you got there and
it didn't pan out you still werewilling to go back instead of
being like nope, I'm gonna belate.
You listen to the lord, so canyou just give a real short thing
on, like for anyone listeningthat maybe doesn't understand
that, like how do you listen tothe lord, but how do you hear
from him?
Because I had someone tell me alot that like I never hear from

(01:17:03):
him and I'm like are youspending time with him?
Are you getting his word?
So do you have anything you cantell them?

Yeah, I think the main Avenue in which we hear
the Lord is absolutely throughwhat he's already spoken Um.
But I think the main issue thatwe have in not hearing from God
is that we don't give him spaceto speak in our lives.
Um, I don't know about you, butI always have a sermon on or a
podcast on On my drive to work.
I always have music playing.

(01:17:28):
I'm always doing something, andso I think our culture and our
world is just so noisy, so loud.
That's so normal for so manypeople is just to always
constantly have blaring noise,blaring noise, and we don't give
the Lord the time and space tospeak into our lives.

(01:17:49):
We're never in silence.
We never give him theopportunity to just open his
mouth and for us to hear fromhim.
And oftentimes we can see prayeras like our communication to
God.
We can neglect the fact thatthe Lord also communicates to us
, and so oftentimes, like what Ifeel the Lord speaking to me is

(01:18:11):
like, so pertinent to thescriptures, like he just puts a
scripture on my heart, on mymind.
Maybe I'm supposed to share itwith somebody else, maybe it's
for myself, but that doesn'thappen when I'm just hearing
blaring noises from elsewhere,but then also the Lord can speak
to us through others and Ithink maybe the Lord is speaking

(01:18:32):
more than we're willing torecognize because it's not
coming through the avenues inwhich we anticipated.
And so maybe you're sharing anencouragement that is godly and
biblical to your friend andthat's what the Lord's trying to
speak to them, but because it'scoming from you, then they're
not recognizing that, wow, thisis the Lord trying to reach and

(01:18:53):
speak to me.

That's really really good, Dylan, yeah, Even
John.
This is when he was very earlyin his faith, but he was
practicing hearing from the Lord.
And he told me this years laterbut he was like he'd go in the
closet and he had like whitesocks and black socks and he was
like Lord, which socks should Iwear?
And like he would listen, andhe said it took a lot of
practice but cause some days hewas like I don't wear that pair,

(01:19:17):
but anyway, uh, that was he'dstart with that and then it was
like which way should I go to?
so important for us to listen tothe Lord because it'll keep us
out of so much trouble and somuch misery and pain if we just
listen to him.
I'm going to spring this on you.
You can say no for this, it'sokay.
But if there's someonelistening and they don't know
the Lord and they want to, canyou lead them to that real quick
?

Yeah, would you be willing to do that?
Yeah, absolutely, and then whenwe finish that, do you want to
just tell them again about yourchurch, how we find you, and
then we'll wrap this up, dylan,sure, okay, it's your platform.
Yeah, so to become a followerof Jesus is simply to trust in
his death and resurrection forthe forgiveness of your sins.

(01:19:58):
It is to come to therealization that we have all
sinned and fallen short of theglory of God, that we all have
gone astray from the Lord, thathe is our loving heavenly father
and he deeply wants to know andlove each and every one of us,
that his way is the best way.
There's a word in the Biblethat to us, is a weird word, but

(01:20:22):
it's repentance, and repentancesimply means to change our mind
.
It is a change of mind thatresults in a change of life.
To change my mind that I am myLord, that I am my King, and to
put the focus on Jesus, to fixour eyes on Jesus, to trust in

(01:20:44):
the message that he brought,that where he says that the
kingdom of God is at hand, thatthis new way of living, that
this new way of speaking andthinking is the way of God, is
the way of Jesus and Jesus liveda perfect and sinless life.

(01:21:09):
Jesus and Jesus lived a perfectand sinless life.
He stepped onto, not stepped.
He was nailed to the cross forus, the scriptures say that he
bore all of our sins on his bodyon the cross.
He who knew no sin, became sinso that we might become the
righteousness of God.
For we are saved by grace bythe grace of God.
It's not by our good works,it's not by the things we do,
but it's simply receiving whatGod has given us, what God has

(01:21:32):
done for us, and through faith,through trusting in Jesus' death
and resurrection for theforgiveness of our sins,
proclaiming that he is the Lordof the universe, that he's the
Lord of all creation.
And so if you're in a placewhere you're interested in
trusting in Jesus, turn to himnow.
He's always listening, he'salways accessible and you can

(01:21:57):
just speak to him.
Turn your heart over him, turnyour life over to him.
If you want to reach out to me,absolutely do so.
You can find me at Dylan DMorrill on Instagram or Dylan
Morrill on Facebook.
However you want to reach me,I'd love to talk to you more
about Jesus and what followinghim looks like.

Okay, and then the church Enjoy Church,
and then the church Enjoy Church.
Yes it's Enjoy Church it is 720Grand Avenue.

It is right off of Grand and 7th Street in Grand
Junction, Colorado.
You can find us on Instagram atenjoychurchgrandjunction.

Okay.

And then your service out.
Do you have just Sundayservices?
We just have Sunday at 9 am, 9am.
Okay.

Well, dylan, it's been an absolute pleasure
having you.
I adore you.
If you ever want to come back,my door is always open for you.
Thank you, and we just thankyou all for listening.
I ask you to like, subscribeand share and we will catch you
guys next time.
Thank you very much, dylan.
Yeah, thank you.
And remember, in the world ofbusiness, every success story

(01:23:07):
begins with a passionate dreamand ends with a strategic
billion dollar handshake.
Stay ambitious, stay innovativeand keep making those deals
that reshape tomorrow.
Thank you all for tuning in anduntil next time, remember
proverbs 3 3 says let love andfaithfulness never leave you.
Bind them around your neck,write them on the tablet of your
heart.
That way you will win favor anda good name in the sight of God
and man.

(01:23:27):
And remember if you like whatyou heard today, click the
follow button so you never missan episode.

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