September 12, 2023 • 37 mins
Join us for a conversation with Greg Steer, founder of Dare to Share Ministry, as host Helen Todd and Greg navigate the intricate topics of sexuality and gender identity among teenagers. They shine a spotlight on the struggles many teens face and the critical role compassion and truth play in their lives. Greg, with his wealth of expertise, makes a compelling case for fostering a new generation of compassionate ambassadors for Christ.
This conversation explores unchanging biblical truths in the context of ever-evolving societal norms. Greg out lines four key principles that equip you to be an effective soul winner who presents the Gospel in truth and in love.
You will hear about the remarkable Dare to Share Live event, a platform aimed at equipping teens with the tools and training to share the gospel effectively.
Find helpful resources and more information at:
https://www.dare2share.org/ and https://gregstier.org/
Thanks for listening! Visit our website rfwma.org and follow us on Facebook :https://www.facebook.com/limitlessspiritpodcast/
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Help us make more inspiring episodes: https://rfwma.org/give-support-the-podcast/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if you had a guide who could tell you how to
bridge a gap between who you aretoday and who you are destined
to be?
What if, each week, you couldhear a story of someone who has
tried and succeeded, or perhapstried and failed but learned
something in the process?
Limitless Spirit is a weeklypodcast where host Helen Todd
interviews guests about topicsand personal stories on defining
(00:23):
life's purpose, pursuingpersonal growth and developing a
deeper faith in Christ.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
According to recent numbers released from the CDC,
about one in four of today'shigh school students identify as
LGBTQ.
This presents a tremendousurgency for parents, pastors and
educators and mentors to knowhow to love and support teens
(00:50):
who wrestle with these issues,and also to equip Christian
teens to engage with theirstruggling peers in love and in
truth.
I'm your host, helen Todd.
A couple of episodes ago, I hada very interesting interview
with Kathy Grace Duncan, wholived as a man for 11 years
before Jesus touched the deepwounds in her heart and she
(01:14):
embraced her original gender andidentity.
If you have not listened to it,I highly recommend it.
You can find it in the previousepisodes.
It is titled Faith, gender,identity and Transformation.
This episode is a follow-up, asI pondered Kathy Grace's story
and thought how her life couldhave been different if someone
(01:35):
reached out to her while she wasstill a struggling teen.
My guest today is Greg Steer,founder of Dare to Share
Ministry.
That's Dare number two, share.
His main goal is to train teensto be passionate evangelists of
their faith.
He shares four key principlesthat equip teens with the loving
(01:57):
and compassionate framework tobe ambassadors for Christ to
their confused peers.
And as I listened to him.
I found these four keyprinciples very useful, not just
for teens, but really foranyone who has a heart for the
hurting and broken people,regardless of what their
struggle is.
Hello, greg, welcome to theLimitless Spirit podcast.
(02:22):
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great, you joining usfrom Denver.
What is the weather like todayin Denver?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It's hot, it's 90, I think it's going to be in the
90s today.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Oh, wow, Well, that's about to change right.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's not humid though , so that's Denver is very dry.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
There's the big difference between you and
Missouri.
Today, exactly, we are humid.
Definitely.
I'm very excited about ourconversation because it's sort
of a follow up to my previousinterview and I feel like this
is the subject is so importantthat it deserves, at the very
(03:02):
least, two episodes.
So I read statistics somewherethat today, one in four high
school students identify asLGBTQ.
Have you heard the same numbers?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, I mean that's according to the CDC and again,
I think the key is identify, asI don't necessarily think one in
four teenagers are actuallythat, but a lot of kids are
identifying.
It's kind of the thing now thatis just sweeping the nation in
(03:37):
many ways.
All of a sudden it's veryaccepted to identify as LGBTQ
and yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I have two sons and they are nine years apart, so
that's almost a generation and Iam observing.
So my youngest one is a seniorin high school and so the
difference that I'm observing inthe culture and the atmosphere
is huge, you know, with thesenine years apart.
(04:09):
And so what struck me?
I was at a school play and Irealized that a good number of
kids in that play I could notdetermine what gender they were.
So it's almost like it's kindof like an androgynous style,
(04:30):
and I don't know if that comesunder that umbrella, but it's
almost like it's not cool tolook any gender anymore.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, I think you know, with some students, you
know that's definitely the caseyou know, I just think you know
you get down to it.
It comes down to amisunderstanding of Genesis one
and two.
I mean, I think a lot of theproblems this generation is
facing is they do not understandGod's design and you know most
(05:02):
of them don't accept it.
By what?
Their standard of authority?
And so what's being said as astandard of authority is kind of
cultural norms and feelings,and when that becomes your
standard of authority,everything gets mushy.
It's like building your houseon oatmeal instead of cement,
and I think that's exactlywhat's happening.
And so, you know, I wrote a blogcalled Love and Truth that
(05:26):
really kind of helped identifyand clarify, you know what
should our stance as believersbe, specifically, youth leaders
and parents dealing with theirteenagers over these questions
of sexuality and gender, and soI try to do it in a loving way,
in a caring way, but also basedon truth.
(05:49):
I believe, helen, that we couldbe 100% truthful and 100% loving
, that we can speak the truth inlove, and that we need to.
And I actually I feel sorry forthis generation.
I feel sorry for a lot of thosethat are involved in LGBTQ,
that are just confused andthey're not hearing a clear
(06:09):
voice from Scripture and if theyare, they may be hearing a
non-loving voice from believers,and so I think we need to speak
the truth in absolute love.
We need to equip our teens notto back down but not to be jerks
, and to be loving and kind andlay the gospel out and talk
about, you know, god's designfor sexuality, but doing it in a
(06:33):
way that's compelling, that'swinsome, but that doesn't shrink
back in fear.
So that's why I called thearticle Love and Truth.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
And this is precisely what I want us to talk about,
and in my previous interview,where I interviewed Kathy Grace
Duncan, who shared her story ofcoming out of the transgender
lifestyle, my main point was how, as a church, do we lay the
(07:02):
gospel, reach out to people whoare confused about their gender
or sexuality, with love and withtruth?
That's a very fine line and afine balance, I feel like,
especially in today's culturethat is very inflamed, and so,
when it comes to teenagers, thatbecomes even more sensitive,
(07:25):
and so that's what I would likefor us to accomplish.
I feel like the generation, theyouth, the teenagers of today
they're kind overall.
I think that even those whounderstand the biblical truths
about gender and sexuality,they're very accepting of their
(07:48):
peers who don't have the samefoundation, and so it almost is
to the point of well, you liveyour life, I live my life, and
that's how it goes.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
What everybody says.
You do you and I'm like, yeah,that's the worst, that's what
basically the serpent told Eveand it's not good advice.
You do you because that willlead to a spiral.
And so it's interesting becauseloving and kind, sometimes love
(08:25):
actually love speaks the truth.
And that's sometimes lovespeaks the truth.
If you see a little kid runningtoward traffic, you're going to
yell at them.
You're going to speak the truth, not because you hate that kid,
but because you love that kid.
You don't want to see that kidget hurt and so Jesus was
ultimately loving, matter offact.
That's the first point, I think.
(08:46):
With your permission, just diveright in.
How do we help our teens wrestlethrough and think through these
issues of gender and sexualitywhen we're really helping our
Christian teens to thinkbiblically about this and act
Christ-like in these areas?
There's four powerfulscriptural truths.
Number one is choose love, nothate, as your posture.
(09:09):
Whenever I see Christians withpicket signs that depict hate
toward those of you know who arestruggling with these issues,
it breaks my heart.
First, john 4-8 says whoeverdoes not love does not know God.
Because God is love.
I mean the most famous verse inthe Bible, john 3-16, for God so
(09:32):
loved the world.
He didn't qualify it orquantify it.
He loves the world and everyonein it Gay, straight,
transgender, everyone.
God is love.
That's who he is and that youknow.
We need to really make surethat's our posture toward
everyone.
They are not our enemy, theyare victims of the enemy.
(09:55):
They're held captive by Satanand we, as believers in Christ,
must have our hearts broken forthose who are stuck in these
lifestyles and do what we can torescue them out of love.
And I think that's the firstand most important point to
begin with is you know, love,not hate, must be our posture.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So how do we express love?
What are some practical ways ofexpressing love?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I think for one is proximity.
I think we need to, you know.
I mean, I'll be honest with you.
Yesterday there was a guy Iwalked into to get my haircut
and he told me he's like I wasraised.
You have his witness.
I am gay.
I didn't get baptized because Iwouldn't be accepted and I
would be kicked out, and I justlistened to him.
(10:47):
You know I didn't ask for it.
Can you give me the?
Can I give?
Can you give me the straightbarber here?
No, I sat there and I got toknow Joey and we talked and I
was able to, you know, walkthrough the gospel with them.
I wrote a book called UnlikelyFighter that tells my whole
story of radical transformation.
I said if I give you one, willyou read it?
And he goes yeah, so after thispodcast, I'm going over there
(11:10):
and I'm going to write a note inthere and give it to him, and
give him my business card andsay, hey, after you read this,
talk, give me a call, tell mewhat you think or text me.
So just being in proximity andbeing loving and having
conversations and giving eyecontact and, you know, treating
everybody as individuals, imagebearers, in spite of their sin,
(11:33):
because we have sin too.
It's just maybe a different,you know, type of sin, but sin
is sin.
So I think, being in proximity,if you have gay neighbors, gay
coworkers, transgender students,that your kids go to school
with talking to them, engagingwith them, not avoiding them,
you know, not taking out yourcootie spray and spraying it,
(11:54):
but loving them and treatingthem like an individual.
How did Jesus treat the womanat the well?
I mean, he talked to her, whichwas a.
I mean, that was a radicalthing.
He was talking to a woman whichyou Jewish men didn't talk to.
Jewish women little you know,let alone Samaritan women, or
half half Jew and half Gentile.
(12:14):
They were considered less thandogs by many Jews and Jesus
engaged in our conversation.
You know he was intentionalabout it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
You know he knew perfectly well who she is and he
also knew perfectly well howculturally unacceptable it was
for him, as a man and as a Jew,to speak to her.
But he was intentional about itand I think in our culture it's
really easy to keep theseseparate paths, you know, for
students in school.
I hang out with my friends, youhang out with yours.
(12:45):
Our paths don't really cross,even if we sit in the same
classes.
But I think being intentionalwould be the first step in
showing love, knowing that thereason this person is in that
confusion is because of painthat they're living out or
carrying, and being intentionalabout showing that you care,
(13:06):
showing that you're interestedin their life.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Exactly, and I mean just just common courtesy and
kindness.
And so I think that's the firstthing.
That's the first dance.
The second one is choose theBible, not culture, as your
authority.
Second, timothy 3.16 says allscripture is God-breathed and is
useful for teaching, rebuking,correcting and training and
righteousness.
(13:28):
So all scripture isGod-breathed.
The way I explain this toteenagers is God's Word is
inspired, is breathed out by God.
Therefore it's an errant.
Proverbs, chapter 30, verse 5,every word of God is pure.
It's an errant, it's withoutheirs and it's original
manuscripts.
We can trust it in areas oflife and faith and sexuality and
(13:50):
gender.
So it's inspired.
It's an errant.
Therefore it's in charge.
You know it's what I call houserules.
It's what I told my kidsgrowing up.
You know he owns a house, makesthe rules.
Your mom and I own this house.
We make the rules in this house.
Well, god owns the house calledthe universe and everything in
it.
Right, the earth is the Lord,the universe is the Lord and
everything in it.
(14:10):
So he makes the rules.
So we need to understand.
God is very clear.
You know people get into thesedebates about what does God
really condemn homosexuality,and you know he also in the same
passage in Leviticus where hecondemned homosexuality, he
condemns eating shellfish, andyou know I mean these ridiculous
arguments.
It's obviously there's morallaws and there's civil laws and
(14:33):
there's different laws.
And that's a moral law becausewe see it equivalent of that in
Romans one when it talks abouthomosexuality being a sin.
You know it's, the acts areshameful.
It makes it very clear not, youknow, not doesn't even back off
on that.
It's very clear in scripturewhere that is at.
So I think we need to reallylook to scripture as our
(14:53):
authority.
We see homosexuality as clearlyidentified as a sin in
scripture and we don't need toback down on that.
And I know there's, there's, youknow what people call same-sex
attraction and different likethat.
And I think there's adifference between struggling
with that attraction andclassifying yourself as a
(15:16):
homosexual.
You know, I know there'sbelievers who have struggled
with same-sex attraction andhave to live, you know, seek to
live that holy life that pleasesGod and rivet their minds to
him.
But it all comes fromscriptural authority.
The Bible's very clear on thisand we need to help our students
understand how clear the Bibleis.
(15:37):
And it's also clear on identityGenesis one, 26 and 27,.
God said let us make man in ourown image, in our own likeness,
so they may rule over the fishand the sea and the birds in the
sky.
And it says so.
God created mankind in his ownimage.
He created them male and female.
He created them.
So he created a male and afemale, and that's very clear
(16:01):
from the first chapter of theBible, all the way through.
So I just think we need toreally help our students
understand that the Bible isclear on these issues and that
God, before the foundation ofthe earth, determined our gender
and what we would be.
He formed us Psalm 139, knit ustogether in our mother's womb,
(16:25):
jeremiah one five.
He tells Jeremiah before Iformed you in the womb, I knew
you.
So you are designed by God as amale or female and you are
designed by God to live in aeither be single or live in a
heterosexual relationship in thecontext of marriage.
That's what the Bible says Well, and here.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I think for many teenagers this is in direct
conflict with what they're beingtaught sometimes in school,
within the public schoolcurriculum.
And so I think the greatresponsibility is on parents,
the youth pastors, to really,you know, establish that very
(17:09):
firm foundation in their mind,even probably earlier than they
become teenagers, because theyhave to.
At that age they're starting tofigure out who they are, they're
kind of pursuing the moreindependent way of thinking.
So that foundation reallyshould start even before, so
(17:30):
that they have something to leanon.
And so I think that yourministry that's precisely the
focus of your ministry there toshare is to give the youth, the
teenagers, that solid foundationto be able to not only
establish for themselves whatthe truth is but be able to
share that truth with others.
(17:50):
So I want to come back to thatand talk a little bit more what
you do within there to shareorganization.
But let's go jump into thethird principle and I think this
is a very important one wherewe need to choose the gospel and
not sin management forsolutions, because it's very
(18:12):
easy, when you have the biblicalfoundation, to fall into this
trap of well, let me just tellyou how it is.
So how do you outline thatsolution?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Well, the gospel, I mean it is the solution.
You know, people talk aboutreparative therapy and all this
other stuff.
I'm like you know what?
I don't need reparative therapy, I need transformation.
You know, spiritually deadbrought back to life.
Romans 1.16 says I'm not ashamedof the gospel of Christ, for it
is the power of God for thesalvation of everyone who
believes.
So it's not a matter of well.
(18:47):
Let me try to tell you how youcan manage this sin.
It's going back to the cross.
It's going back and believingthat.
You know, I dare to share.
We use a simple gospel acrossthe God created us to be with
him.
Our sins separate us from God.
Sins cannot be removed by gooddeeds.
Paying the price for sin, jesusdied and rose again.
Everyone who trusts in himalone is eternal life, and life
(19:10):
with Jesus starts now and lastsforever.
And that gospel messagetransforms us.
If anyone's in Christ, they'rea new creation.
Old things have passed away,everything is becoming new.
And so what does Paul do in 1Corinthians 6, when he's talking
to the Corinthians who arestuck in all sorts of crazy sins
?
There is divisions among them.
People are getting drunk at thecommunion table, there is
(19:33):
sexual immorality, all sorts.
I mean, just talk about crazy.
The Corinthians is like man.
It's like going to Vegas everySunday.
They were just, they just had alot of sins.
What does Paul say?
He said listen, remember thatthose who sin, those who are
adulterers, liars, cheaters,homosexual offenders, well, not
inherent to King of God.
(19:53):
He makes this whole list andsome of the Corinthians live,
we're living out that list.
But then he says in the nextverse but that's what some of
you were, but now you've beenwashed, you've been justified,
you've been sanctified.
So, even though they were stillstruggling with some of that
stuff, what does he do?
He takes them back to the gospel.
He said that's not who you areanymore.
You've been made a new creation.
(20:13):
Walk in that, keep your eyes onwho, your new identity in
Christ.
So it all goes back to thegospel, not just when it comes
to seeing an unsaved gay orstraight or transgender person
coming to Christ, but to see allof us gay, straight growing in
Christ and freeing ourselvesfrom those sins, because now we
(20:35):
have a new identity.
It's not gay or straight ortransgender, it's child of God.
And so the gospel transformsthat identity and I think it's
so, so important to get back tothe gospel.
Continue to go to the gospel,relentlessly go to the gospel
and let the gospel of Christthat saves you by faith alone
and what he did for us on thecross, transform you by that
(20:57):
ongoing faith from first to last.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
In the end.
You know, we all struggle fromsome form of sin, from some
desires of our flesh that arenot pleasing to God, and it's a
matter of.
There's no way that we canconquer it unless we choose God
more, that we love God more thanwe love our flesh, and that
principle applies to any sin orweakness that we may have in our
(21:26):
lives, and that's the only.
I've seen so many examples ofthis.
You know, a real successfulrehabilitation program like a
drug or alcohol addiction, basedon nothing but just the
scripture and transformingpeople's lives through the
gospel message, and phenomenalsuccess rates compared to
(21:48):
government programs that havemedical treatments, you know and
, and really don't get anywhere.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Let me just affirm that.
So I have partners in Africawho are mobilizing for the
gospel and now some of them aregovernment funded because the
problems of AIDS and strugglesand poverty.
They are taking a gospelapproach to these solutions and
now many of these governmentsare actually funding some of
(22:15):
their ministries because thepowers in the gospel that change
lives, you know, we alwaysthink well, you know, well, you
know they.
Just we just need to give themthis, this and this, and
everything's gonna be fixed.
But what when you'retransformed from the heart?
You know, I was a raiser in apoor family and by a single mom
(22:37):
in an inner-city, violentsetting, and when I heard the
gospel I felt like the richestkid on the block.
We struggled to get our nextmeal.
I felt wealthy because thegospel changes everything and I
think we need to really rememberthat when it comes to
mobilizing our young people toreach the LGBTQ peers with the
(23:02):
hope of Christ and then to seethem transform and believe that
that same gospel, that same HolySpirit that now dwells inside
of them.
And I think you know there'sthis thought well, you got to
stop being gay before you cometo Christ.
I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
That's like saying you got toget cleaned up to take a bath,
right, you get, you get.
Say, like people say, we got toturn from your sin first and
(23:22):
then come to Christ.
I'm like, well, I thought thewhole point of coming to Christ
is that he turns us from our sin.
We don't turn ourselves fromour sin.
We could save ourselves if wecould turn ourselves from our
sin.
We cannot turn ourselves fromour sin.
We come as sinners, unable toturn from our sin, put our faith
in Christ and then hetransforms us and begins that
(23:42):
process of turning us from oursin, sanctifying us, conforming
us to the image of Christ.
So my solution is this, thegospel, the gospel.
The gospel changes everythingyou know.
Thoreau once said that you'regonna love this quote.
For every thousand hacking atthe leaves of evil, one strikes
at the root.
Only the gospel strikes at theroot of evil.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I couldn't agree with you more.
Before we jump into the fourthprinciple, I want to ask you
what would you say?
Because I know peoplepersonally who struggle, you
know, with homosexuality andthey do know the truth and I
believe that they do love theLord, but the breakthrough has
(24:26):
not happened, at least not yet.
And my heart goes out and, andyou know, at some point you just
feel helpless to help theperson because at this point
they they know the truth, theyknow the message, they have
seemingly received the messageand believe it, but the
(24:46):
breakthrough is not there.
So what would you say to peoplewho are in that situation?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I would say the breakthrough is not optional.
So in other words, when you getsaved, you're the child of God.
He says in Philippians 1, 6,the good work he began in you,
he will complete into the day ofChrist Jesus.
Some of the Corinthiansresisted the process of
sanctification.
1 Corinthians 11, I think 30,it says for this cause, many of
you are weak and sick and manyof you fall asleep.
(25:13):
Now that's talking about thedirt, now it's talking about
death.
So God will push that easybutton of sanctification if he
has to.
The easy button is welcome home, right?
Okay, yeah, we have to continueto fight the good fight, and if
we don't, I think as a churchand it doesn't matter what the
sin is it could be gossip, itcould be slander, it could be
(25:35):
alcoholism, it could behomosexuality If the only sin
that people get kicked out ofthe church for is a refusal to
repent, that's it.
And when you refuse to stoptrying to fight the good fight
is when church discipline shouldtake place in 1 Corinthians 5.
And so I really think that weneed to do everything we can to
(25:59):
help people walk in that victoryand we need to take this area
and all sin Seriously.
You know people get all nervous, you know to.
You know somebody who's a dragqueen reading, you know at a
library to children.
Okay, yes, very inappropriate,but we don't mind if a gossip
teaches Sunday school to oureight-year-old children and our
(26:20):
Sunday school teacher, thegossip's all the time.
I'm like, okay, we need to dealwith that sin too.
I mean that's, that's wrong.
And so I think we need we needto really help people take sin
seriously and real help themrealize this is not your new
identity.
And if, whatever that sincategory is, if they refuse to
stop trying to walk in victorynow, we need to go to the church
(26:42):
now, the elders, and try tofigure that out on a church-wide
level, not out of hate but outof love, is a last-ditch effort
for sanctification in the lifeof that.
That person that's strugglingwith what that's, that's refused
to struggle with that sinanymore.
In other words, they're not.
They're not fighting a goodfight to walk in victory over
that.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So let's let's jump into the fourth principle, and
that is choose engagement, notdetachment.
So we touched a little bit onthis in the beginning, talking
about that.
Love is intentional.
We choose to reach out, butwhat can you add to this as we
(27:23):
speak about this fourthprinciple?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Well, we need to mobilize our students to to
reach out to their friends thatare struggling with these issues
, with the hope of Christ, andto share the gospel with them.
You know, I think of my son.
He had a friend that heactually went to Christian
school with.
She came out of the closet and,you know, got kicked out of
(27:47):
school, got really bitter towardGod, became an atheist.
Well, jeremy just kept buildinga relationship with her and
just kept talking to keephanging out with her, you know,
and normally wouldn't let Jeremy, you know, go hang out at a
girl's house.
But she was, honestly, she waslesbian.
So I was like, you know, go forit, he's trying to reach her,
reach her back for Christ.
(28:08):
And so he, he and I I was doingan event where I had a speak on
this issue, so I said do youthink your friend would be open
to let me interview her aboutmaking sure I'm saying
everything right?
And so we, Jeremy and hisfriend and I, met at a Starbucks
.
I went over my sermon with herand she was like, yeah, maybe
(28:28):
say it this way.
She was very helpful actually.
And when Jeremy used therestroom, I said to her I said
is there anything that wouldturn you back to God.
And she said you know, just soyou know, your son, jeremy, is
doing a good job.
He's moved me from being anatheist to being an agnostic.
Now I'm kind of reconsideringbecause I'm realizing, realizing
(28:49):
, and he, I know where he standson this issue, but he loves me
and he cares about me and he'spointing me to Christ, and so I
thought, man, that's what weneed to do.
We don't detach, we engage.
What did Jesus do?
He got to, you know, he washanging out with the tax
collectors and sinners.
What's the modern dayequivalent of that?
I think it'd be the LGBTcommunity, at least as part of
(29:09):
that, that Jesus was hanging outwith and bringing hope to, not
not affirming their sin, but butloving them as individuals and
sharing the way out of thislifestyle and the way out of sin
in general, and that is throughthe gospel.
So, I think we need to mobilizeour teenagers on our campuses as
federally funded missionariesthat share the gospel, live the
(29:34):
gospel and love everybody, anddo not back down on these issues
.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, and I believe this is the mission of your
ministry there to share is tomobilize the teenagers, the
young people, to be theambassadors for Christ.
So what are some of the waysthat you accomplish this?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, so every year we do an event called Dare to
Share Live and it is a day ofevangelism, inspiration and
equipping.
It's November 11th and weprovide the video training, we
provide the app it's, and theneverybody gets trained, equipped
, inspired and they go out totheir own communities and share
(30:15):
the gospel.
They engage their friends withtheir smartphones, our app life.
In six words, they're able tosee kind of an Instagram feed of
gospel conversations that arehappening from around the world
and all these youth groups fromaround the world.
It'll start in New Zealand andAustralia on November 11th and,
as the sun goes around the world, literally, we have a map that
lights up when there's gospelconversations taking place on
(30:38):
the app.
So I believe that, as the sungoes around the world, that the
map on the app will light up intens of thousands of gospel
conversations on November 11th.
And it's high quality, it's welldone.
There's drama, there'sinteraction and it's absolutely
free, so made possible by thegenerosity of our donors.
(31:00):
It's not free to us.
This thing costs a lot to pulloff.
Well, but it's high, highquality.
So people can find out moreabout it at DareToShareLiveorg
that's the number two,DareToShareLive, L-I-V-E-O-R-G,
DareToShareLiveorg and just signup and you can do it as a youth
leader, you can do it with youryouth group.
If you're a parent, you canhave, you know, teenagers.
(31:22):
You can have them and theirfriends come to your house and
just show it there and you gotto go out and share a Christ as
part of it.
That's what makesDareToShareLive work, and last
year we had almost 2,000churches across the world
registered for it.
This year we believe there'sgoing to be, you know, thousands
more.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
This sounds super exciting, greg, and I'm going to
post the link to this in theshow notes so that our listeners
could join or share with theirteens, their youth, how to join.
I know that you offer a numberof resources on your website as
well.
One of them particularly iscalled Hard Questions examining
(31:59):
gender, sexuality and identitythrough the Gospel.
So and they're all free as wellwhat are some of the hard
questions that you're addressingin these resources?
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Basically, take that Love and Truth article that I
wrote and we each of them isbasically an individual youth
group session.
So we talk about Love and Truth, we talk about the Bible as
authority, we talk about whatscripture has to say about those
issues, we talk about identityand how our identity is found in
Christ, and we talk aboutengagement.
How do you reach your friendswith Christ?
So it's a free four-week,four-part curriculum series
(32:35):
designed for youth leaders orparents to use with their
teenagers.
So yeah, that's onDareToShareorg Again, the number
two DareToShareorg undercurriculum and resources and
tons of free stuff available tohelp youth leaders and parents
navigate this crazy world thatwe live in with the power of the
.
Gospel, helen.
(32:57):
I think it's time to playoffense, not defense.
I think we're always trying toslap the sins and smartphones
and bad music at a teenager'shands.
I think it's time to let'smobilize this generation for the
Gospel, and the Holy Spiritwill help sanctify our students
in the process.
So let's go for it.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
You saw right, Greg, because as parents, sometimes we
again walk this fine line ofwanting to protect our children,
our teens, from the influencesof the world.
But you know, if we have takentime and effort to pour the
foundation of the Gospel intothem, why not release them?
(33:35):
We can only shelter them for solong from those bad influences.
Why not release them into theworld as the messengers of
Christ?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Yeah, think about this Babylon, right.
Horrible place.
Four teenagers, daniel,shadrach, meshach and Ben Nigo,
took a what a 900 mile, fourmonth walk from Jerusalem to
Babylon.
When they were, you know,deported and you know they're
along the way, they were likewe're going to go in and we're
(34:06):
going to turn this place upsidedown for God.
And they resolved not to defilethemselves.
They stood when others bowed,they bowed when others stood.
They see what others didn't andthey did what others wouldn't.
And you know they were publicschool kids.
Basically.
They, you know, and God usedthem to turn.
(34:26):
I mean literally, nebuchadnezzarended up putting his faith in
God as a result of theirtestimony and the words.
And so why would we not do that?
Jesus chose mostly teenagersMatthew 17, 24 through 27,.
Peter and Jesus and thedisciples go on a capernaum, but
only Peter and Jesus pay thetemple tax.
The temple tax was only forthose 20 years old and older.
(34:48):
So all the disciples are there,but only Peter and Jesus pay.
That means Jesus was a youthleader with one adult volunteer
and one rotten kid named Judasand no budget, and with that
youth group he changed the world.
So why would we not mobilizejust like Jesus mobilized
teenagers to change the world?
Why aren't we mobilizing ouryouth groups?
Why are we waiting untilthey're adults?
I think we're losing thembecause we're not mobilizing
(35:10):
them.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
We're teaching them.
I love it yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
So that's what we do at Dare to Share we mobilize,
energize, mobilize, gospelize.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Thank you, greg, for this conversation and what you
do for our teenagers, thegeneration that is coming up to
take on the world, and we'redefinitely going to spread the
word about the Dare to Sharelive event and hopefully you
will increase the numbers ofteens attending.
Thank you again and manyblessings to you.
(35:39):
To sum up the four fireproofprinciples that Greg outlined
for us Number one choose lovenot hate.
Number two choose the Bible,not the culture, as the
authority.
Number three choose the gospelinstead of sin management.
And number four chooseengagement not detachment.
(36:01):
If you think about theseprinciples, they are a solid
foundation for reaching a lostperson for Christ.
Not everyone will respond toyour desire to help, but at the
very least, you will plant aseed of what God's love looks
like, and this is the highestaccomplishment we can achieve in
(36:21):
our Christian walk.
I encourage you to check outGreg's website for some
wonderful resources.
Many of them are free, by theway.
Simply go to gregsteerorg.
I will post a link in the shownotes also so that you can
easily reach it.
If you feel called to fulfillthe Great Commission and travel
(36:43):
the world with the good news ofJesus, I encourage you to visit
the website for World MissionsAlliance, which is rfwmaorg.
There, you will findopportunities to travel the
world and help the hurting andthe broken by sharing with them
how Jesus changed your lifeAgain.
Our website is rfwmaorg.
(37:07):
Until next time, I'm Helen Todd.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Limitless Spirit Podcast is produced by World
Missions Alliance.
We believe that changed liveschange lives.
If you want to see your lifetransformed by Christ's love, or
if you want to help those whoare hurting and hopeless and
discover your greater purpose inserving Christ through
short-term missionary work,check out our website, rfwmaorg,
(37:31):
and find out how to getinvolved.
What if you had a guide who could tell you how to
bridge a gap between who you aretoday and who you are destined
to be?
What if, each week, you couldhear a story of someone who has
tried and succeeded, or perhapstried and failed but learned
something in the process?
Limitless Spirit is a weeklypodcast where host Helen Todd
interviews guests about topicsand personal stories on defining
(00:23):
life's purpose, pursuingpersonal growth and developing a
deeper faith in Christ.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
According to recent numbers released from the CDC,
about one in four of today'shigh school students identify as
LGBTQ.
This presents a tremendousurgency for parents, pastors and
educators and mentors to knowhow to love and support teens
(00:50):
who wrestle with these issues,and also to equip Christian
teens to engage with theirstruggling peers in love and in
truth.
I'm your host, helen Todd.
A couple of episodes ago, I hada very interesting interview
with Kathy Grace Duncan, wholived as a man for 11 years
before Jesus touched the deepwounds in her heart and she
(01:14):
embraced her original gender andidentity.
If you have not listened to it,I highly recommend it.
You can find it in the previousepisodes.
It is titled Faith, gender,identity and Transformation.
This episode is a follow-up, asI pondered Kathy Grace's story
and thought how her life couldhave been different if someone
(01:35):
reached out to her while she wasstill a struggling teen.
My guest today is Greg Steer,founder of Dare to Share
Ministry.
That's Dare number two, share.
His main goal is to train teensto be passionate evangelists of
their faith.
He shares four key principlesthat equip teens with the loving
(01:57):
and compassionate framework tobe ambassadors for Christ to
their confused peers.
And as I listened to him.
I found these four keyprinciples very useful, not just
for teens, but really foranyone who has a heart for the
hurting and broken people,regardless of what their
struggle is.
Hello, greg, welcome to theLimitless Spirit podcast.
(02:22):
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great, you joining usfrom Denver.
What is the weather like todayin Denver?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It's hot, it's 90, I think it's going to be in the
90s today.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Oh, wow, Well, that's about to change right.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's not humid though , so that's Denver is very dry.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
There's the big difference between you and
Missouri.
Today, exactly, we are humid.
Definitely.
I'm very excited about ourconversation because it's sort
of a follow up to my previousinterview and I feel like this
is the subject is so importantthat it deserves, at the very
(03:02):
least, two episodes.
So I read statistics somewherethat today, one in four high
school students identify asLGBTQ.
Have you heard the same numbers?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, I mean that's according to the CDC and again,
I think the key is identify, asI don't necessarily think one in
four teenagers are actuallythat, but a lot of kids are
identifying.
It's kind of the thing now thatis just sweeping the nation in
(03:37):
many ways.
All of a sudden it's veryaccepted to identify as LGBTQ
and yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I have two sons and they are nine years apart, so
that's almost a generation and Iam observing.
So my youngest one is a seniorin high school and so the
difference that I'm observing inthe culture and the atmosphere
is huge, you know, with thesenine years apart.
(04:09):
And so what struck me?
I was at a school play and Irealized that a good number of
kids in that play I could notdetermine what gender they were.
So it's almost like it's kindof like an androgynous style,
(04:30):
and I don't know if that comesunder that umbrella, but it's
almost like it's not cool tolook any gender anymore.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, I think you know, with some students, you
know that's definitely the caseyou know, I just think you know
you get down to it.
It comes down to amisunderstanding of Genesis one
and two.
I mean, I think a lot of theproblems this generation is
facing is they do not understandGod's design and you know most
(05:02):
of them don't accept it.
By what?
Their standard of authority?
And so what's being said as astandard of authority is kind of
cultural norms and feelings,and when that becomes your
standard of authority,everything gets mushy.
It's like building your houseon oatmeal instead of cement,
and I think that's exactlywhat's happening.
And so, you know, I wrote a blogcalled Love and Truth that
(05:26):
really kind of helped identifyand clarify, you know what
should our stance as believersbe, specifically, youth leaders
and parents dealing with theirteenagers over these questions
of sexuality and gender, and soI try to do it in a loving way,
in a caring way, but also basedon truth.
(05:49):
I believe, helen, that we couldbe 100% truthful and 100% loving
, that we can speak the truth inlove, and that we need to.
And I actually I feel sorry forthis generation.
I feel sorry for a lot of thosethat are involved in LGBTQ,
that are just confused andthey're not hearing a clear
(06:09):
voice from Scripture and if theyare, they may be hearing a
non-loving voice from believers,and so I think we need to speak
the truth in absolute love.
We need to equip our teens notto back down but not to be jerks
, and to be loving and kind andlay the gospel out and talk
about, you know, god's designfor sexuality, but doing it in a
(06:33):
way that's compelling, that'swinsome, but that doesn't shrink
back in fear.
So that's why I called thearticle Love and Truth.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
And this is precisely what I want us to talk about,
and in my previous interview,where I interviewed Kathy Grace
Duncan, who shared her story ofcoming out of the transgender
lifestyle, my main point was how, as a church, do we lay the
(07:02):
gospel, reach out to people whoare confused about their gender
or sexuality, with love and withtruth?
That's a very fine line and afine balance, I feel like,
especially in today's culturethat is very inflamed, and so,
when it comes to teenagers, thatbecomes even more sensitive,
(07:25):
and so that's what I would likefor us to accomplish.
I feel like the generation, theyouth, the teenagers of today
they're kind overall.
I think that even those whounderstand the biblical truths
about gender and sexuality,they're very accepting of their
(07:48):
peers who don't have the samefoundation, and so it almost is
to the point of well, you liveyour life, I live my life, and
that's how it goes.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
What everybody says.
You do you and I'm like, yeah,that's the worst, that's what
basically the serpent told Eveand it's not good advice.
You do you because that willlead to a spiral.
And so it's interesting becauseloving and kind, sometimes love
(08:25):
actually love speaks the truth.
And that's sometimes lovespeaks the truth.
If you see a little kid runningtoward traffic, you're going to
yell at them.
You're going to speak the truth, not because you hate that kid,
but because you love that kid.
You don't want to see that kidget hurt and so Jesus was
ultimately loving, matter offact.
That's the first point, I think.
(08:46):
With your permission, just diveright in.
How do we help our teens wrestlethrough and think through these
issues of gender and sexualitywhen we're really helping our
Christian teens to thinkbiblically about this and act
Christ-like in these areas?
There's four powerfulscriptural truths.
Number one is choose love, nothate, as your posture.
(09:09):
Whenever I see Christians withpicket signs that depict hate
toward those of you know who arestruggling with these issues,
it breaks my heart.
First, john 4-8 says whoeverdoes not love does not know God.
Because God is love.
I mean the most famous verse inthe Bible, john 3-16, for God so
(09:32):
loved the world.
He didn't qualify it orquantify it.
He loves the world and everyonein it Gay, straight,
transgender, everyone.
God is love.
That's who he is and that youknow.
We need to really make surethat's our posture toward
everyone.
They are not our enemy, theyare victims of the enemy.
(09:55):
They're held captive by Satanand we, as believers in Christ,
must have our hearts broken forthose who are stuck in these
lifestyles and do what we can torescue them out of love.
And I think that's the firstand most important point to
begin with is you know, love,not hate, must be our posture.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So how do we express love?
What are some practical ways ofexpressing love?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I think for one is proximity.
I think we need to, you know.
I mean, I'll be honest with you.
Yesterday there was a guy Iwalked into to get my haircut
and he told me he's like I wasraised.
You have his witness.
I am gay.
I didn't get baptized because Iwouldn't be accepted and I
would be kicked out, and I justlistened to him.
(10:47):
You know I didn't ask for it.
Can you give me the?
Can I give?
Can you give me the straightbarber here?
No, I sat there and I got toknow Joey and we talked and I
was able to, you know, walkthrough the gospel with them.
I wrote a book called UnlikelyFighter that tells my whole
story of radical transformation.
I said if I give you one, willyou read it?
And he goes yeah, so after thispodcast, I'm going over there
(11:10):
and I'm going to write a note inthere and give it to him, and
give him my business card andsay, hey, after you read this,
talk, give me a call, tell mewhat you think or text me.
So just being in proximity andbeing loving and having
conversations and giving eyecontact and, you know, treating
everybody as individuals, imagebearers, in spite of their sin,
(11:33):
because we have sin too.
It's just maybe a different,you know, type of sin, but sin
is sin.
So I think, being in proximity,if you have gay neighbors, gay
coworkers, transgender students,that your kids go to school
with talking to them, engagingwith them, not avoiding them,
you know, not taking out yourcootie spray and spraying it,
(11:54):
but loving them and treatingthem like an individual.
How did Jesus treat the womanat the well?
I mean, he talked to her, whichwas a.
I mean, that was a radicalthing.
He was talking to a woman whichyou Jewish men didn't talk to.
Jewish women little you know,let alone Samaritan women, or
half half Jew and half Gentile.
(12:14):
They were considered less thandogs by many Jews and Jesus
engaged in our conversation.
You know he was intentionalabout it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
You know he knew perfectly well who she is and he
also knew perfectly well howculturally unacceptable it was
for him, as a man and as a Jew,to speak to her.
But he was intentional about itand I think in our culture it's
really easy to keep theseseparate paths, you know, for
students in school.
I hang out with my friends, youhang out with yours.
(12:45):
Our paths don't really cross,even if we sit in the same
classes.
But I think being intentionalwould be the first step in
showing love, knowing that thereason this person is in that
confusion is because of painthat they're living out or
carrying, and being intentionalabout showing that you care,
(13:06):
showing that you're interestedin their life.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Exactly, and I mean just just common courtesy and
kindness.
And so I think that's the firstthing.
That's the first dance.
The second one is choose theBible, not culture, as your
authority.
Second, timothy 3.16 says allscripture is God-breathed and is
useful for teaching, rebuking,correcting and training and
righteousness.
(13:28):
So all scripture isGod-breathed.
The way I explain this toteenagers is God's Word is
inspired, is breathed out by God.
Therefore it's an errant.
Proverbs, chapter 30, verse 5,every word of God is pure.
It's an errant, it's withoutheirs and it's original
manuscripts.
We can trust it in areas oflife and faith and sexuality and
(13:50):
gender.
So it's inspired.
It's an errant.
Therefore it's in charge.
You know it's what I call houserules.
It's what I told my kidsgrowing up.
You know he owns a house, makesthe rules.
Your mom and I own this house.
We make the rules in this house.
Well, god owns the house calledthe universe and everything in
it.
Right, the earth is the Lord,the universe is the Lord and
everything in it.
(14:10):
So he makes the rules.
So we need to understand.
God is very clear.
You know people get into thesedebates about what does God
really condemn homosexuality,and you know he also in the same
passage in Leviticus where hecondemned homosexuality, he
condemns eating shellfish, andyou know I mean these ridiculous
arguments.
It's obviously there's morallaws and there's civil laws and
(14:33):
there's different laws.
And that's a moral law becausewe see it equivalent of that in
Romans one when it talks abouthomosexuality being a sin.
You know it's, the acts areshameful.
It makes it very clear not, youknow, not doesn't even back off
on that.
It's very clear in scripturewhere that is at.
So I think we need to reallylook to scripture as our
(14:53):
authority.
We see homosexuality as clearlyidentified as a sin in
scripture and we don't need toback down on that.
And I know there's, there's, youknow what people call same-sex
attraction and different likethat.
And I think there's adifference between struggling
with that attraction andclassifying yourself as a
(15:16):
homosexual.
You know, I know there'sbelievers who have struggled
with same-sex attraction andhave to live, you know, seek to
live that holy life that pleasesGod and rivet their minds to
him.
But it all comes fromscriptural authority.
The Bible's very clear on thisand we need to help our students
understand how clear the Bibleis.
(15:37):
And it's also clear on identityGenesis one, 26 and 27,.
God said let us make man in ourown image, in our own likeness,
so they may rule over the fishand the sea and the birds in the
sky.
And it says so.
God created mankind in his ownimage.
He created them male and female.
He created them.
So he created a male and afemale, and that's very clear
(16:01):
from the first chapter of theBible, all the way through.
So I just think we need toreally help our students
understand that the Bible isclear on these issues and that
God, before the foundation ofthe earth, determined our gender
and what we would be.
He formed us Psalm 139, knit ustogether in our mother's womb,
(16:25):
jeremiah one five.
He tells Jeremiah before Iformed you in the womb, I knew
you.
So you are designed by God as amale or female and you are
designed by God to live in aeither be single or live in a
heterosexual relationship in thecontext of marriage.
That's what the Bible says Well, and here.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I think for many teenagers this is in direct
conflict with what they're beingtaught sometimes in school,
within the public schoolcurriculum.
And so I think the greatresponsibility is on parents,
the youth pastors, to really,you know, establish that very
(17:09):
firm foundation in their mind,even probably earlier than they
become teenagers, because theyhave to.
At that age they're starting tofigure out who they are, they're
kind of pursuing the moreindependent way of thinking.
So that foundation reallyshould start even before, so
(17:30):
that they have something to leanon.
And so I think that yourministry that's precisely the
focus of your ministry there toshare is to give the youth, the
teenagers, that solid foundationto be able to not only
establish for themselves whatthe truth is but be able to
share that truth with others.
(17:50):
So I want to come back to thatand talk a little bit more what
you do within there to shareorganization.
But let's go jump into thethird principle and I think this
is a very important one wherewe need to choose the gospel and
not sin management forsolutions, because it's very
(18:12):
easy, when you have the biblicalfoundation, to fall into this
trap of well, let me just tellyou how it is.
So how do you outline thatsolution?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Well, the gospel, I mean it is the solution.
You know, people talk aboutreparative therapy and all this
other stuff.
I'm like you know what?
I don't need reparative therapy, I need transformation.
You know, spiritually deadbrought back to life.
Romans 1.16 says I'm not ashamedof the gospel of Christ, for it
is the power of God for thesalvation of everyone who
believes.
So it's not a matter of well.
(18:47):
Let me try to tell you how youcan manage this sin.
It's going back to the cross.
It's going back and believingthat.
You know, I dare to share.
We use a simple gospel acrossthe God created us to be with
him.
Our sins separate us from God.
Sins cannot be removed by gooddeeds.
Paying the price for sin, jesusdied and rose again.
Everyone who trusts in himalone is eternal life, and life
(19:10):
with Jesus starts now and lastsforever.
And that gospel messagetransforms us.
If anyone's in Christ, they'rea new creation.
Old things have passed away,everything is becoming new.
And so what does Paul do in 1Corinthians 6, when he's talking
to the Corinthians who arestuck in all sorts of crazy sins
?
There is divisions among them.
People are getting drunk at thecommunion table, there is
(19:33):
sexual immorality, all sorts.
I mean, just talk about crazy.
The Corinthians is like man.
It's like going to Vegas everySunday.
They were just, they just had alot of sins.
What does Paul say?
He said listen, remember thatthose who sin, those who are
adulterers, liars, cheaters,homosexual offenders, well, not
inherent to King of God.
(19:53):
He makes this whole list andsome of the Corinthians live,
we're living out that list.
But then he says in the nextverse but that's what some of
you were, but now you've beenwashed, you've been justified,
you've been sanctified.
So, even though they were stillstruggling with some of that
stuff, what does he do?
He takes them back to the gospel.
He said that's not who you areanymore.
You've been made a new creation.
(20:13):
Walk in that, keep your eyes onwho, your new identity in
Christ.
So it all goes back to thegospel, not just when it comes
to seeing an unsaved gay orstraight or transgender person
coming to Christ, but to see allof us gay, straight growing in
Christ and freeing ourselvesfrom those sins, because now we
(20:35):
have a new identity.
It's not gay or straight ortransgender, it's child of God.
And so the gospel transformsthat identity and I think it's
so, so important to get back tothe gospel.
Continue to go to the gospel,relentlessly go to the gospel
and let the gospel of Christthat saves you by faith alone
and what he did for us on thecross, transform you by that
(20:57):
ongoing faith from first to last.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
In the end.
You know, we all struggle fromsome form of sin, from some
desires of our flesh that arenot pleasing to God, and it's a
matter of.
There's no way that we canconquer it unless we choose God
more, that we love God more thanwe love our flesh, and that
principle applies to any sin orweakness that we may have in our
(21:26):
lives, and that's the only.
I've seen so many examples ofthis.
You know, a real successfulrehabilitation program like a
drug or alcohol addiction, basedon nothing but just the
scripture and transformingpeople's lives through the
gospel message, and phenomenalsuccess rates compared to
(21:48):
government programs that havemedical treatments, you know and
, and really don't get anywhere.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Let me just affirm that.
So I have partners in Africawho are mobilizing for the
gospel and now some of them aregovernment funded because the
problems of AIDS and strugglesand poverty.
They are taking a gospelapproach to these solutions and
now many of these governmentsare actually funding some of
(22:15):
their ministries because thepowers in the gospel that change
lives, you know, we alwaysthink well, you know, well, you
know they.
Just we just need to give themthis, this and this, and
everything's gonna be fixed.
But what when you'retransformed from the heart?
You know, I was a raiser in apoor family and by a single mom
(22:37):
in an inner-city, violentsetting, and when I heard the
gospel I felt like the richestkid on the block.
We struggled to get our nextmeal.
I felt wealthy because thegospel changes everything and I
think we need to really rememberthat when it comes to
mobilizing our young people toreach the LGBTQ peers with the
(23:02):
hope of Christ and then to seethem transform and believe that
that same gospel, that same HolySpirit that now dwells inside
of them.
And I think you know there'sthis thought well, you got to
stop being gay before you cometo Christ.
I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
That's like saying you got toget cleaned up to take a bath,
right, you get, you get.
Say, like people say, we got toturn from your sin first and
(23:22):
then come to Christ.
I'm like, well, I thought thewhole point of coming to Christ
is that he turns us from our sin.
We don't turn ourselves fromour sin.
We could save ourselves if wecould turn ourselves from our
sin.
We cannot turn ourselves fromour sin.
We come as sinners, unable toturn from our sin, put our faith
in Christ and then hetransforms us and begins that
(23:42):
process of turning us from oursin, sanctifying us, conforming
us to the image of Christ.
So my solution is this, thegospel, the gospel.
The gospel changes everythingyou know.
Thoreau once said that you'regonna love this quote.
For every thousand hacking atthe leaves of evil, one strikes
at the root.
Only the gospel strikes at theroot of evil.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I couldn't agree with you more.
Before we jump into the fourthprinciple, I want to ask you
what would you say?
Because I know peoplepersonally who struggle, you
know, with homosexuality andthey do know the truth and I
believe that they do love theLord, but the breakthrough has
(24:26):
not happened, at least not yet.
And my heart goes out and, andyou know, at some point you just
feel helpless to help theperson because at this point
they they know the truth, theyknow the message, they have
seemingly received the messageand believe it, but the
(24:46):
breakthrough is not there.
So what would you say to peoplewho are in that situation?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I would say the breakthrough is not optional.
So in other words, when you getsaved, you're the child of God.
He says in Philippians 1, 6,the good work he began in you,
he will complete into the day ofChrist Jesus.
Some of the Corinthiansresisted the process of
sanctification.
1 Corinthians 11, I think 30,it says for this cause, many of
you are weak and sick and manyof you fall asleep.
(25:13):
Now that's talking about thedirt, now it's talking about
death.
So God will push that easybutton of sanctification if he
has to.
The easy button is welcome home, right?
Okay, yeah, we have to continueto fight the good fight, and if
we don't, I think as a churchand it doesn't matter what the
sin is it could be gossip, itcould be slander, it could be
(25:35):
alcoholism, it could behomosexuality If the only sin
that people get kicked out ofthe church for is a refusal to
repent, that's it.
And when you refuse to stoptrying to fight the good fight
is when church discipline shouldtake place in 1 Corinthians 5.
And so I really think that weneed to do everything we can to
(25:59):
help people walk in that victoryand we need to take this area
and all sin Seriously.
You know people get all nervous, you know to.
You know somebody who's a dragqueen reading, you know at a
library to children.
Okay, yes, very inappropriate,but we don't mind if a gossip
teaches Sunday school to oureight-year-old children and our
(26:20):
Sunday school teacher, thegossip's all the time.
I'm like, okay, we need to dealwith that sin too.
I mean that's, that's wrong.
And so I think we need we needto really help people take sin
seriously and real help themrealize this is not your new
identity.
And if, whatever that sincategory is, if they refuse to
stop trying to walk in victorynow, we need to go to the church
(26:42):
now, the elders, and try tofigure that out on a church-wide
level, not out of hate but outof love, is a last-ditch effort
for sanctification in the lifeof that.
That person that's strugglingwith what that's, that's refused
to struggle with that sinanymore.
In other words, they're not.
They're not fighting a goodfight to walk in victory over
that.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So let's let's jump into the fourth principle, and
that is choose engagement, notdetachment.
So we touched a little bit onthis in the beginning, talking
about that.
Love is intentional.
We choose to reach out, butwhat can you add to this as we
(27:23):
speak about this fourthprinciple?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Well, we need to mobilize our students to to
reach out to their friends thatare struggling with these issues
, with the hope of Christ, andto share the gospel with them.
You know, I think of my son.
He had a friend that heactually went to Christian
school with.
She came out of the closet and,you know, got kicked out of
(27:47):
school, got really bitter towardGod, became an atheist.
Well, jeremy just kept buildinga relationship with her and
just kept talking to keephanging out with her, you know,
and normally wouldn't let Jeremy, you know, go hang out at a
girl's house.
But she was, honestly, she waslesbian.
So I was like, you know, go forit, he's trying to reach her,
reach her back for Christ.
(28:08):
And so he, he and I I was doingan event where I had a speak on
this issue, so I said do youthink your friend would be open
to let me interview her aboutmaking sure I'm saying
everything right?
And so we, Jeremy and hisfriend and I, met at a Starbucks
.
I went over my sermon with herand she was like, yeah, maybe
(28:28):
say it this way.
She was very helpful actually.
And when Jeremy used therestroom, I said to her I said
is there anything that wouldturn you back to God.
And she said you know, just soyou know, your son, jeremy, is
doing a good job.
He's moved me from being anatheist to being an agnostic.
Now I'm kind of reconsideringbecause I'm realizing, realizing
(28:49):
, and he, I know where he standson this issue, but he loves me
and he cares about me and he'spointing me to Christ, and so I
thought, man, that's what weneed to do.
We don't detach, we engage.
What did Jesus do?
He got to, you know, he washanging out with the tax
collectors and sinners.
What's the modern dayequivalent of that?
I think it'd be the LGBTcommunity, at least as part of
(29:09):
that, that Jesus was hanging outwith and bringing hope to, not
not affirming their sin, but butloving them as individuals and
sharing the way out of thislifestyle and the way out of sin
in general, and that is throughthe gospel.
So, I think we need to mobilizeour teenagers on our campuses as
federally funded missionariesthat share the gospel, live the
(29:34):
gospel and love everybody, anddo not back down on these issues
.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, and I believe this is the mission of your
ministry there to share is tomobilize the teenagers, the
young people, to be theambassadors for Christ.
So what are some of the waysthat you accomplish this?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, so every year we do an event called Dare to
Share Live and it is a day ofevangelism, inspiration and
equipping.
It's November 11th and weprovide the video training, we
provide the app it's, and theneverybody gets trained, equipped
, inspired and they go out totheir own communities and share
(30:15):
the gospel.
They engage their friends withtheir smartphones, our app life.
In six words, they're able tosee kind of an Instagram feed of
gospel conversations that arehappening from around the world
and all these youth groups fromaround the world.
It'll start in New Zealand andAustralia on November 11th and,
as the sun goes around the world, literally, we have a map that
lights up when there's gospelconversations taking place on
(30:38):
the app.
So I believe that, as the sungoes around the world, that the
map on the app will light up intens of thousands of gospel
conversations on November 11th.
And it's high quality, it's welldone.
There's drama, there'sinteraction and it's absolutely
free, so made possible by thegenerosity of our donors.
(31:00):
It's not free to us.
This thing costs a lot to pulloff.
Well, but it's high, highquality.
So people can find out moreabout it at DareToShareLiveorg
that's the number two,DareToShareLive, L-I-V-E-O-R-G,
DareToShareLiveorg and just signup and you can do it as a youth
leader, you can do it with youryouth group.
If you're a parent, you canhave, you know, teenagers.
(31:22):
You can have them and theirfriends come to your house and
just show it there and you gotto go out and share a Christ as
part of it.
That's what makesDareToShareLive work, and last
year we had almost 2,000churches across the world
registered for it.
This year we believe there'sgoing to be, you know, thousands
more.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
This sounds super exciting, greg, and I'm going to
post the link to this in theshow notes so that our listeners
could join or share with theirteens, their youth, how to join.
I know that you offer a numberof resources on your website as
well.
One of them particularly iscalled Hard Questions examining
(31:59):
gender, sexuality and identitythrough the Gospel.
So and they're all free as wellwhat are some of the hard
questions that you're addressingin these resources?
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Basically, take that Love and Truth article that I
wrote and we each of them isbasically an individual youth
group session.
So we talk about Love and Truth, we talk about the Bible as
authority, we talk about whatscripture has to say about those
issues, we talk about identityand how our identity is found in
Christ, and we talk aboutengagement.
How do you reach your friendswith Christ?
So it's a free four-week,four-part curriculum series
(32:35):
designed for youth leaders orparents to use with their
teenagers.
So yeah, that's onDareToShareorg Again, the number
two DareToShareorg undercurriculum and resources and
tons of free stuff available tohelp youth leaders and parents
navigate this crazy world thatwe live in with the power of the
.
Gospel, helen.
(32:57):
I think it's time to playoffense, not defense.
I think we're always trying toslap the sins and smartphones
and bad music at a teenager'shands.
I think it's time to let'smobilize this generation for the
Gospel, and the Holy Spiritwill help sanctify our students
in the process.
So let's go for it.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
You saw right, Greg, because as parents, sometimes we
again walk this fine line ofwanting to protect our children,
our teens, from the influencesof the world.
But you know, if we have takentime and effort to pour the
foundation of the Gospel intothem, why not release them?
(33:35):
We can only shelter them for solong from those bad influences.
Why not release them into theworld as the messengers of
Christ?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Yeah, think about this Babylon, right.
Horrible place.
Four teenagers, daniel,shadrach, meshach and Ben Nigo,
took a what a 900 mile, fourmonth walk from Jerusalem to
Babylon.
When they were, you know,deported and you know they're
along the way, they were likewe're going to go in and we're
(34:06):
going to turn this place upsidedown for God.
And they resolved not to defilethemselves.
They stood when others bowed,they bowed when others stood.
They see what others didn't andthey did what others wouldn't.
And you know they were publicschool kids.
Basically.
They, you know, and God usedthem to turn.
(34:26):
I mean literally, nebuchadnezzarended up putting his faith in
God as a result of theirtestimony and the words.
And so why would we not do that?
Jesus chose mostly teenagersMatthew 17, 24 through 27,.
Peter and Jesus and thedisciples go on a capernaum, but
only Peter and Jesus pay thetemple tax.
The temple tax was only forthose 20 years old and older.
(34:48):
So all the disciples are there,but only Peter and Jesus pay.
That means Jesus was a youthleader with one adult volunteer
and one rotten kid named Judasand no budget, and with that
youth group he changed the world.
So why would we not mobilizejust like Jesus mobilized
teenagers to change the world?
Why aren't we mobilizing ouryouth groups?
Why are we waiting untilthey're adults?
I think we're losing thembecause we're not mobilizing
(35:10):
them.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
We're teaching them.
I love it yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
So that's what we do at Dare to Share we mobilize,
energize, mobilize, gospelize.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Thank you, greg, for this conversation and what you
do for our teenagers, thegeneration that is coming up to
take on the world, and we'redefinitely going to spread the
word about the Dare to Sharelive event and hopefully you
will increase the numbers ofteens attending.
Thank you again and manyblessings to you.
(35:39):
To sum up the four fireproofprinciples that Greg outlined
for us Number one choose lovenot hate.
Number two choose the Bible,not the culture, as the
authority.
Number three choose the gospelinstead of sin management.
And number four chooseengagement not detachment.
(36:01):
If you think about theseprinciples, they are a solid
foundation for reaching a lostperson for Christ.
Not everyone will respond toyour desire to help, but at the
very least, you will plant aseed of what God's love looks
like, and this is the highestaccomplishment we can achieve in
(36:21):
our Christian walk.
I encourage you to check outGreg's website for some
wonderful resources.
Many of them are free, by theway.
Simply go to gregsteerorg.
I will post a link in the shownotes also so that you can
easily reach it.
If you feel called to fulfillthe Great Commission and travel
(36:43):
the world with the good news ofJesus, I encourage you to visit
the website for World MissionsAlliance, which is rfwmaorg.
There, you will findopportunities to travel the
world and help the hurting andthe broken by sharing with them
how Jesus changed your lifeAgain.
Our website is rfwmaorg.
(37:07):
Until next time, I'm Helen Todd.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Limitless Spirit Podcast is produced by World
Missions Alliance.
We believe that changed liveschange lives.
If you want to see your lifetransformed by Christ's love, or
if you want to help those whoare hurting and hopeless and
discover your greater purpose inserving Christ through
short-term missionary work,check out our website, rfwmaorg,
(37:31):
and find out how to getinvolved.
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