September 7, 2023 • 36 mins
Could your prayer life use an update? Even the most mature believers struggle with distraction, discouragement and sometimes even a spiritual drought when it comes to prayer.
Dr. Bill Thrasher, a respected scholar of Bible and theology, and author of the insightful book "How to Resurrect a Dead Prayer Life" talks with host Helen Todd about practical steps to develop a consistent, deep and powerful prayer life.
In this interview they explore how to pray our hearts out, lean into our need for God, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us, especially when we're unsure of what to pray for.
Don't miss out on their enlightening discussion on how temptations can aid your prayer and how t the Lord's Prayer can guide your conversations with God.
Bill and Helen navigate the complex issue of unanswered prayers and reconcile the scripture's promise to ask anything in God's name.
Check out Dr. Thrashers website victoriouspraying.com to purchase his book and find more resources.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if you had a guide who could tell you how to
bridge a gap between who you aretoday and who you are destined
to be?
What if, each week, you couldhear a story of someone who has
tried and succeeded, or perhapstried and failed but learned
something in the process?
Limitless Spirit is a weeklypodcast where host Helen Todd
interviews guests about topicsand personal stories on defining
(00:23):
life's purpose, pursuingpersonal growth and developing a
deeper faith in Christ.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome, dear listeners, to another episode
where we explore the depths andnuances of the Christian life.
Today, we focus on the vitaland yet often challenging aspect
of prayer.
We are all too familiar withthe hurdles we face in
cultivating a fulfilling prayerlife.
There are distractions,discouragement and even times of
(00:51):
spiritual drought.
As believers, how can we movebeyond these barriers to truly
connect with Christ in ourprayers and develop a rich,
consistent and powerful prayerlife?
My guest today is Dr BillThrasher, a graduate professor
of Bible and theology at MoodyTheological Seminary.
He is also the author of therecent book how to Resurrect a
(01:16):
Dead Prayer Life.
Bill will guide us on a journeyto rediscover the essence of
prayer through clear andpractical steps that promise to
deepen our connection with God.
Here are some of the mostpressing questions that we are
going to address in thisinterview how do you identify a
dead prayer life?
How can a worried and franticperson begin to enjoy God's
(01:40):
presence and peace?
How can you reach heaven whenyou don't know how to pray or
what to pray for?
And how can your greateststruggles spur effective prayers
that defeat the evil one?
Join me for this importantconversation with Dr Thrasher
and unlock the secrets to a morefulfilling and profound prayer
(02:02):
life.
Hello Bill, welcome to theLimitless Spirit Podcast.
How are you today?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I'm doing just fine.
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I'm very excited that I stumbled upon your recent
book how to Resurrect a DeadPrayer Life, and the reason why
is I have been sort of on apersonal quest to deepen my
prayer life or improve thequality of my prayer life.
In fact, I picked up awonderful book by Charles
(02:34):
Spurgeon on prayer and spiritualwarfare and have been enjoying
this, and you can never go wrongwith any of his books.
But I don't think it's acoincidence that I came across
your book, and so I think it's avery important subject, because
I believe that as Christians weare only as good as our prayer
(02:55):
life.
That's really the essence ofour being as a Christian,
essence of our relationship withGod.
So I want to ask you a questionyou are a professor at the
Moody Bible Seminary.
Is this book more of anacademic research or it's
personal as well?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
It is both, and certainly my background is a
seminary study, new TestamentGreek in a message of theology
and systematic theology, butit's in the study taught by one
theology, but that's what droveme into the area of spiritual
formation and discipleship.
The goal of our instruction islove from a pure heart, clear
conscience, sincere faith.
(03:34):
Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy1.5.
So, and certainly even thetitle of the book how to
Resurrect a Dead Prayer Life isnot in any way talking down at
anybody.
He's really talking about myown experience, someone who
believed in prayer and very muchwas involved in it.
But after being around thechurch so many years and people
like pray for this, pray forthis, I tried to pray for it all
(03:55):
and I found myself one morninga crisis point that I really
sense that I was very involvedin the activity of prayer.
But I was saying, god, I thinkthe greatest gift you give me is
just take this burden off myback, because what I had sensed.
I've lost a real sense ofexpectancy, and so I needed to
learn something else aboutprayer.
(04:16):
You know, there's here, loudand clear, two things that are
taught.
One is prayer is very, very,very important, and I bought
into that.
Secondly, you need todiscipline yourself to do it,
and I had done that, but yet myprayer life died.
I lost to expectancy, I lost to, and so DL Moody, arguably the
greatest preacher of his day,said I'd rather teach one person
(04:36):
to pray than 10 people topreach.
There are five commands inrelationship to the Holy Spirit
Talk by the spirit, be filledwith the spirit, don't breathe
the spirit, don't quench thespirit, and pray in the spirit.
And that's what I said.
God, I want to put myself as alearner.
How is it that you've given theHoly Spirit to motivate and
guide and empower my prayer life?
I need to learn some freshlessons, and so it comes out of
(05:00):
my heart, it comes out of a deepstudy of scripture, and I pray
that God would graciously,lovingly encourage others that
prayer is not just a humanexperience.
It's something that we're notto live our Christian life by
ourselves.
We're to walk by the spirit,we're to pray in the spirit, and
(05:22):
so I try to in very practicalways share how we can do that.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So, before we touch on hows, let's talk about why it
seems like having a vibrantprayer life is one of the
biggest challenges of Christianlife.
In fact, I've you know,speaking from my personal
experience, and I've talked tomany famous pastors who confess
(05:47):
that they really feel like theirprayer life is not where they
want it to be.
And so why is it so difficultfor us to develop a good quality
prayer life?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well, I think, unquestionably it is a great
spiritual battle.
Here's when God wants to dosomething.
God puts a prayer burden, aprayer concern on somebody's
heart, is that personresponsible for that prayer
burden?
That's how the work of God isset in motion.
So if you as the prince of thepower there, if you as the devil
(06:21):
, if you as the adversary, theadversary of God, you obviously
would get God's people so revvedup and so busy and so that they
can't hear God, they can'tcooperate with him, because my
activity is not really a threatto his kingdom, but he trembles
when we pray.
It is a spiritual battle, butyou know God wants to come in
(06:42):
there and help us.
We don't.
He is greater, greater is hethan us and he is in the world.
And so we can call upon anomnipotent God.
And you know, when the disciplescame to Jesus, had Lord, teach
us to pray Luke 11, he spoke, heresponded and he'll.
Anyone's listening to us today?
He will respond and he knowswho you are, where your
(07:03):
situation is, what yourpersonality is, what your
schedule is, what the demands onyour life, and he is willing to
be a patient, loving teacher.
And so I just thank God for himhonoring that request to teach
you to pray.
He will even.
I thank God for the things I'veunlearned about prayer.
That and I thank God for everybaby step of progress so you
(07:26):
know God can revive your prayerlife and I praise God that I
need everything I'm tellingothers and I praise God for the
privilege of learning from theLord.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Your answer made me think of what I would consider
an inspiration or a model of avibrant prayer life.
Have you seen this movie, theWar Room?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yes, I have.
Yes, very good.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I think that this is a great example that our prayer
life is really spiritual warfare, our participation in spiritual
warfare and drawing from theexample of the disciples.
When Jesus asks them to pray inthe Garden of Gethsemane in his
most challenging hour, whathappens to them?
(08:13):
They fall asleep, and so theenemy clearly recognized that
their prayer would be verydetrimental to his plan.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And I think you know that before the Lord had
announced to Peter one placethat's in Mark 14, he says look,
I'm going to die and you're allgoing to fall away.
And in Peter's response and allothers chimed in too you see
that in Mark 14, verse 37, thefollowing says even if I have to
die with you.
I will never deny you.
I think he really meant that.
(08:44):
And so when the Lord chose histhree closest friends to go with
him to the Garden of Gethsemaneand ask him to keep watch with
him and pray three times, theyfell asleep, exactly like you
said.
But if you're convinced that,what you could never deny, why
not just get a little rest?
So we see, it's that spirit ofself-sufficiency.
God has to do something in alife, a breaking point.
(09:05):
He can do it many, many ways.
To show us that what we needprayer Now what the Lord, we see
he was fulfilled three times.
Peter denied the Lord, but wepraise God.
The story doesn't end there.
We see later in Matthew, john21, the Lord restores Peter.
Peter, do you love me?
Feed my sheep.
Three times he questioned him,gave him an opportunity to
(09:26):
affirm his love for the Lord.
You see a different man in thebook of Peter, in the book of
Acts.
He's not asleep but he'swaiting in the upper room for
that coming Holy Spirit.
He's in that prayer meeting.
You see, in Acts 242, they weredevoted to prayer.
Acts 31, he went up at the hourof prayer.
Acts 4, in the crisis momentthey call the spirit of prayer.
So you see him a different man,and so it's.
(09:47):
It's that is the key is, whatis God does something I like.
Romans 1311.
As they were sleeping, he saysit's time he's talking to the
Christians of Rome.
It's time for you to awakenfrom sleep.
The church is asleep and I putmyself in it without any kind of
condemnation upon anybody else,but God wants to wake us up.
Wake us up.
(10:07):
We're in a battle and we needto cry out to him to intervene.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I couldn't agree more with you.
So it seems like one answer orconclusion that we came to, that
the obstacle in the vibrancyand quality of our prayer life
is the spirit ofself-sufficiency.
And I was trying to do this onour own.
So that would be the first stepof recognizing that, I think,
(10:35):
would move us in the rightdirection.
So what's next?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Well, I think we've come to God in prayer and
confess this.
This is very unflattering, soI'll say it about me.
If you come to God and say,lord in and of myself, I don't
care about anybody but me.
What's in it for me just colorseverything that is our flesh.
I can't produce Christ likeferocity.
I can't produce Christ likecompassion, but the good news.
(11:00):
So you come to him in need.
God honors need in his infinitemercy.
He sets the needy securely onhigh, away from affliction.
The prayer of Psalm 72, 4, and5 saved the children of the
needy.
I always felt like my childrenqualified.
It says it does not lie withinman to direct his path.
I'm a sheep.
(11:20):
He delivered me from my strongenemy, for they were too mighty
for me.
God's opposed the proudestgrace to the humble.
So if you come to God in need,that is the first place.
You know I spent a year, numberof years ago.
Each year I come before theLord just trusting him for
certain things, and one year wasGod.
Would you show me how to beused to use a raise of prayer
among your people?
(11:40):
I laid that before the Lord fora year and I'm very attentive
throughout the year.
But you know there was onething God showed me that looked
very, very sparse.
At the end of that year I said,boy, couldn't somebody trust
God for an afternoon and get alot more than that.
But you know that one principleI've had the privilege to share
with thousands of people youjust tell God's people how to
make use of their needy moments.
(12:01):
Prayer is helplessness plusfaith.
Whatever there is.
It makes you sense your needfor God, thinking far and don't
even stumble over the faith.
It's just simply coming toJesus with that helplessness.
God honors that.
So that is the first place.
It's that posture.
And you know, if you want toknow the God's strategy in
keeping the person useful, hekeeps a person weak.
(12:22):
You know, that's that.
You know also Paul.
He gave him that thorn in theflesh.
He was concerned about him whenhe lifted up that prayer of the
Lord.
But he says you know, I'm goingto give you something better.
I'm going to give you thatweakness that allow you to
experience my grace and my power.
So don't despise your weakness.
It's the power of your prayerlife.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So I think the other reason, or an obstacle, I guess,
and maybe it's even from mypersonal experience sometimes we
just don't know how to pray,what to pray for, even for
ourselves, you know, and wedon't want to waste the Lord's
time with babbling.
So we want to be clear andconcise in our prayers.
(13:01):
So how do we overcome thisweakness of ours that?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Well, I just said two things regarding that.
Certainly, the idea of maybethree things, but certainly you
always pray your heart.
See, as Lewis says, the prayerthat precedes all prayer is this
let it be the real I who speak.
Let it be the real thou I speakto.
Pray your heart.
If you're fearful and you'repraying, you're not talking
about God, about that fear.
You're not praying.
If you're angry and you're notallowing God to enter into you
(13:32):
and put his healing hand uponthat hurt, beneath that anger,
you're not praying.
So there's many, many things toget a person to spy on, and
that's one of them.
It almost just become anactivity that you feel like you
need to do to soothe yourconscience and not really a
heart relationship with Lord.
Now you need the Spirit of Godto aid you in getting in touch
with your heart and praying yourheart.
Now, sometimes, even as you'reseeking to pray, your heart is.
(13:53):
Scripture says the Holy Spirithelps us in our weakness, for we
don't know how to pray as weought.
Sometimes we're weak and wedon't know how to pray as we
ought.
The worst thing you can dothere is pretend you do know how
to pray as you ought becauseyou know you're around the
church long enough.
Somebody asks you aboutsomething, pray about it, and
we've got to pray for alloccasions that we can dump on
you.
But sometimes we don't know howto pray as we ought and the
(14:14):
Holy Spirit intercedes withthose growing you too deep for
words.
Sometimes, just like Imentioned that thorn in the
flesh, when Paul prayed, lord,deliver me from this thorn in
the flesh, he really meant thatthat was a desire.
But there was a deeper desireunderneath Paul's heart that he
wasn't in touch with at thatmoment.
The deeper desire is God.
I want to know your grace andyour power in the fullest
possible extent and I'm going tobe the most useful believer I
(14:35):
can be.
So God did not give him hisdesire in order to give him a
deeper desire, and though hewasn't in touch with that.
But the Holy Spirit wasinterceding with those growing
you too deep for words.
So pray your heart, trust God'sspirit to help you pray when
you don't know how to pray.
And certainly I would say whatthe use of scripture.
We are weak.
That was a thing thatministered to me.
I'm so weak that God many timeshas to give me the very words
(14:57):
to articulate my heart to God,you know, go.
I remember going to the Psalmsone time and that's a great book
of prayer and finding passagesthere that helped me articulate
my heart to God.
You could say, god, protect me.
Or Psalm 17, 8, keep me as theapple of your eye, hide me in
the shadow of your wings.
You could say, god, encourageme.
Or you could say, god, makeglad the soul of your servant,
(15:18):
for to you I lift up my soul,for now I'm good, ready to
forgive abundant, loving, loving, kind of souls, to call upon
you.
Psalm 86, 4 and 5.
So see, god's given us His word.
He's given us many scripturalprayers.
In an earlier book I wrote aprayer, put it in the appendix
All the key references to prayer, all part of the Old Testament
and every reference to prayer inregard to the New Testament.
(15:39):
I pray through those orwhatever, and that's a
tremendous help.
So I think those are some waysthat God knows we're weak and we
need help in prayer.
He's given us the Holy Spiritto help us get in touch with the
heart, to pray our heart, topray our heart when we don't
know how to.
And he's given the Spirit,wrote His word.
So never divorce thedisciplines of prayer and
scripture.
(15:59):
If you're abiding me and myword's abiding, you ask whatever
you will and I shall be donefor you.
John 15, 7.
So when God's joined together,let no man separate.
He's put together thedisciplines of scripture and the
disciplines of prayer.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So can our temptations actually aid us in
our prayer life.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And it's one of the greatest aids.
And I tell you this somethinghelps me every day, and that's
no exaggeration, no hyperbole.
Every day of my life, atemptation is an appeal to meet
a legitimate need in anunrighteous way, and so your
temptations get you in touchwith the desires of your heart.
Now that it doesn't tell you,the temptation and okay it's it
(16:39):
offers you a fix for some paininside of you, but it's going to
lead you to guilt and bondageand intensified pain.
And so there you got to go backfor another fix, and that's the
cycle of addiction.
You know one very practicalthing that it's not a sin to be
tempted.
Jesus was tempted in all ways,yet without sin.
Pat down your most persistedtemptation and then ask God, god
(16:59):
, every time I'm tempted thisway, would you give me a prayer
request, a prayer burden thatI'm going to use this as a
prompting to pray and rememberthe dear man that shared that
with me about 40 years ago.
He says let it be a prayerrequest that will damage Satan's
kingdom, as God answers it.
So here the genius of thatyou're using the temptation to
(17:21):
do their own thing to become themotivation to do a godly thing,
and that helps me every day ofmy life, you know, if he starts
out just being a prayerpartnership with somebody.
When I'm tempted, I'm going topray for you and you're tempted,
you pray for me.
But think about every time amother or father was tempted to
have an imperial thought, theyprayed for the purity of their
children.
Every time a Christian was feltto be discouraged and in fiery
(17:42):
dark, to discouragement, athrone at all of us you prayed
for the encouragement of yourChristian leaders.
So the genius of that issometimes you'll get tired of
resisting something if you'renot saying yes to something else
.
So that is a tremendous helpand I beg God that everybody
would hear that and put thatinto practice.
Don't go to bed tonight withoutfiguring out what your
(18:02):
temptation is and how you'regoing to respond to that.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think this is a very, very practical advice.
I never thought of it this way.
I can't wait to try that.
So we talked a little bit abouthow we pray for ourselves.
Let's talk about how we prayfor others, how we transition
from the self-centeredness toactually and even in that
(18:28):
temptation prayer, I'm havingthat praying for others.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
When you're tempted, what can I pray?
And that is for others.
That does take attention offherself, but that may not be the
question you're asking now, sogo ahead, but that is praying
for others.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
So, yeah, this is a great way, because I think that
the enemy's goal is to keep usfocused and centered on
ourselves.
That's the most miserable lifewhen your greatest needs are
your own and your greatest focusis yourself.
There can't be anything moremiserable than that.
So what is some other advicethat you have for expanding your
(19:04):
prayer life towards the needsof others, and maybe even being
the vice president of a missionsorganization?
Our focus is to engage thechurch into praying for the
nations, praying for the peoplein the other parts of the world
where they may have never evenset foot before or have heard of
that.
That takes a great level ofspiritual maturity to care
(19:26):
enough.
And so what would you say topeople to encourage their prayer
life to expand even beyond theneeds of the people they know
and love, to the people thatthey may never encounter?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You know it's God can expand your heart.
I think many times praying withothers can expand your heart.
I do pray for the world, I prayfor the various contents of the
world and I go throughOperation World in regard to
praying for, but you know ithelps me when I'm praying for
others.
I remember we at our school wewent one particular time we had
(20:03):
this particular time.
We had a Friday morning prayermeeting where we prayed for the
revival of our own lives andalso intercessions of the world.
We usually bring aninternational student to talk to
us about her country or hiscountry.
And you know, as I said, I prayfor the world and I've been to
some parts of the world.
But I remember when thisChinese student, when they
prayed for China, they wept.
(20:24):
You know that sometimes is hepraying with others and exposure
to others it does expand yourheart and it becomes not quite
as theoretical.
I know individuals that Iformer students that I had many
years ago when I began to taketrips to see them took eight
(20:45):
trips down there to Mexico wherethey weren't a very dangerous
part.
You know that, even though Iknew them and I knew about the
situation, it was so differentjust being there.
So I know everybody can't gothere in it but our prayers can
go where we can't go.
But what I'm saying, exposureto need is a tremendous help.
Praying with others who maybehave a first-hand exposure to
(21:07):
that is a tremendous help.
So certainly I love the prayersof scripture too.
That can tell us how I mean Ilove those.
One of my favorite prayers isEphesians 1, 15 to 23.
To pray hope into people'slives, hope, that precious word.
You know till that devil isdespair, those fiery darts he
throws at every one of us.
(21:27):
You know that.
Hope that he says I pray thatyou know the riches of the glory
of his inheritance, not justthat you haven't inherited us,
but that we are God'sinheritance.
It's a way that people willknow that they are God's
treasured ones.
Never underestimate how cruelthe devil is.
He tries to put those.
I remember a dear lady.
She said the breakthrough inher life was when a man of God
(21:49):
came up to her and looked herstraight in the eyes and said
look, I want to tell you onething you're not just a piece of
dirt.
She said all her life she'dseen herself more valuable than
a piece of dirt.
Now God didn't put that thoughtin you.
But the evil one is very, verycruel.
And so I'm just that thatEphesians 1.15 to 23,.
That's a great way to aid andguide your prayer.
You said I pray.
(22:09):
You know the power that raisedJesus from the dead, the kind of
power that give you power overover over sin and death.
And also the resurrection poweris the power that gives victory
out of a parent defeat.
When Jesus was in the grave itlooked like the enemies of
righteousness had won, but Godwas winning his greatest victory
.
Now that's a way of God in ourlife.
Many times before God would dosomething special.
(22:30):
He will bring you low.
He'll bring you low and you candespair in that moment or you
can cry out to God andexperience that resurrection
power.
So those are some of the waysyou use scriptural prayers and
expose yourself to need and evenfor people who can feel those
burdens even a greater way thanyou feel, it's been a help.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Well, and sometimes all it takes is the intention.
When you were speaking aboutthe Chinese students.
I have a very good real lifeexample from our ministry where,
you know, back in the verybeginning of our ministry, a
friend of my husband's invitedhim to go to China with him, and
my husband had absolutely zerodesire to go to China.
(23:14):
And so the friend said Well, Iwill send you a map of China.
Would you pray for China?
And my husband agreed with that.
There was no emotion, there wasno desire, but there was an
intention.
So he promised and therefore heprayed for China.
Looking at this map, do youknow that six months later he
was on the airplane with hisfriend flying to China?
(23:35):
Because sometimes it startswith intention and then the
emotion comes.
You know, and that's the powerof prayer you start and then the
Holy Spirit does his work anddoes the rest, and so sometimes
you don't feel like doing that,but if you make an intention,
(23:55):
then God does the rest.
So one of the things that I,again, I think it can be an
obstacle in our prayer life isthe worry.
Yes, when you are in a crisis,when you are facing an
exceedingly difficult situationwhere it's just beyond your
control, beyond your naturalability to confront, sometimes
(24:17):
this worry brings our prayerlife to a halt because it just
takes over.
So what are some practical waysto combat this?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
That's an excellent.
Certainly we all.
Like I said, it's not just tobe tempted, and we're all
tempted with those fire darts ofanxiety, but the, you know, god
tells us to be anxious fornothing.
He tells us to cast all ourcares upon him and we pray, even
for the ones that will belistening to us.
Now, anything between any of usin full obedience to that
command, that God would evenhelp us make that transition.
(24:51):
But you know, if God only toldus to be anxious for nothing,
that really wouldn't help us,because now not only we know we
anxious, now we know we'resinning, so that doesn't help.
But he says don't be anxiousfor nothing.
But he says, every time you'retempted to be anxious, god is
drawing you into a conversationwith himself.
He says talk to me.
Sometimes you have to talk tohim and say Lord, what is it
that I'm really anxious about,as you talk to him.
And then he says, as you talkto him, tell me what you want me
(25:14):
to do about it.
Let your requests be made knownto God.
Prayer was supplication,specific request.
And then, as you talk to him,sometimes we have to go to
scripture saying God, would youshow me and guide me how to
petition you in regard to thisconcern.
Sometimes you need other peoplepraying with you in regard to
that.
And the third thing he says isThanksgiving.
You can talk to God about yourworry problem and you can
(25:37):
petition him, and you can getmore wrapped up in the problem
than in God, but Thanksgiving iswhat lifts your heart to God.
Thank you, lord, that you don'twant me burdened.
Thank you that your load islight, thank you that you care
more about this than I do.
And so if those are thepractical ways that God has
shown us to carry that burden,that's a big way you get to know
God.
That's a big way you get toknow his word.
When his word has shown you howto petition him, how to trust
(26:00):
him with a particular anxiety.
You understand Peter's wordswhen he talks about the promise
of God being these precious andmagnificent promises.
They are precious andmagnificent when they've enabled
you to what To live in peace.
That peace that Jesus said hewanted to leave his disciples
with.
My peace, I give it to you, notas the world gives, the peace
(26:21):
that sustained him, even thoughhe woke up every day and there
was a plot to kill him.
We marveled that a man couldexist in those circumstances.
But in his humanity he couldlive with peace, and he wants to
train you and me to live withpeace.
So we praise God for that, thathe is a God of peace and wants
to give us that peace and toguard our hearts and minds in
(26:41):
Christ Jesus.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So our conversation about prayer, I don't think
would be complete if we didn'ttalk about the Lord's prayer.
So when Jesus gives us thisexample of how to pray, what is
he teaching us through this?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Well, I think you certainly see a pattern.
You know, many times the way weuse it is almost in tethysis of
what he's just talked about.
He says don't just use me asrepetition.
Sometimes we quoted as if itjust means repetition.
But he's given a pattern.
And you know it's interestingwhen a person says teach me to
pray or teach me to study theBible, somebody's sort of
(27:18):
they're sort of wanting, in noway, it's not as simple as that.
They're sort of wanting a one,two, three, four beginning step.
And I think that's what hegives them.
He doesn't mean you freeze itand make it it uh wrote and lose
all meaning to it.
But you start with God, ourFather, born in heaven.
You, uh, how will be your name,lord?
This is, this is about you.
And to how will be your name?
You come in submission bykingdom.
(27:40):
Come, that will be done.
Earth is in heaven.
So you come in submission, youcome in recognizing God and then
, as he goes through the variouspetitions, forgive us our
trespasses.
We forgive those who trespassagainst us.
If there's anger in your heart,do that, ask Him.
You don't earn forgiveness byforgiving others, but if you
(28:00):
help bitterness in your heart,you're not in a position to
receive the cleansing that Godwants to give you.
Give me this day my dailyprayer In His praying, not just
for you, give us, it's praying,in a sense, for others as well.
So you do see a beautifulpattern there in the Lord's
Prayer that can be very, veryhelpful.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I think it's not a coincidence that he puts that
the kingdom come.
That will be done in the verybeginning, because I think it is
focused to our prayers.
This is where it takes thefocus from us being the center
of the universe and recognizingthat we exist for the purpose of
(28:37):
God's will and His kingdom, andI think this is helpful in our
prayers as we come with whateverneed that we're facing, that in
the end, the most importantthing is that it is God's will
that matters.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And he's the Master.
We're the servant, and so wecome to Him.
Lord, the posture of our heartis God.
What do you want me to trustyou for?
What do you want me to trustyou for?
We know that His will isultimately our best.
He makes His will lookattractive because it is, it's,
good, acceptable, perfect willof God.
So we want His will, and sowhen we're struggling, we let
(29:13):
our desires be known to God,like our precious Lord did, as
he was anticipating the cross.
But he said yet not my will,but that will be done.
So I think that is.
I would totally agree with that.
That that's very important.
That's the beginning of Histeaching on prayer, there in the
Lord's prayer.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And this kind of leads me to the next question,
or maybe it helps us answer thenext question how do we deal
with unanswered prayers and thefact that the scripture promises
us?
To ask whatever you wish in myname and it will be given to you
(29:45):
, but yet not all of our prayersare answered.
So what helps us reconcile thisconflict?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yes, well, certainly, you know, sometimes they're not
answered in the way that we'reasking and certainly we have the
potential of asking a miss.
We want part of it.
We want to look at, first ofall, the idea of when I'm asking
.
You know he tells the peoplethere in James 4, you don't have
because you don't ask, and Iknow he's going to anticipate
(30:15):
them saying don't say we're notasking, we're asking, asking,
asking, not receiving.
Yes, you're asking and notreceiving, because what you ask,
that you may spend it on yourown pleasures, now that doesn't
mean that what you can't ask forsomething if you really want it
, that doesn't mean that at all.
But the solution there is whenyou bring them down there, to
verse 7 of that James 4, submit,therefore, to God.
When I want something more thanI want God, something's wrong.
(30:37):
Let God be your servant.
Now, lord, let me tell you what.
No, I'm His servant, and so heloves us so much.
He wants to give us.
His will will be our very best,and so that's part of it.
There may be some reasons that,if I regard iniquity in my heart
, the Lord will not hear he whodoes not listen to God's word.
(30:58):
In obedience, he says what hewill not.
Our prayers can be atabomination, so there can be
blame where they cause.
There are other times that well, like we've mentioned, the idea
of didn't answer us to removethe thorn in the flesh because
God wanted to give themsomething better.
God had a deeper desire in ourheart.
Sometimes it may be a timingthing.
(31:18):
I remember these two individuals.
They said they prayed for yearsthat God was in revival in this
particular and after aboutthree years they sort of just
felt released from that prayerburden and didn't seem like much
happened.
But about 20 or 30 years laterthey were at a pastor's
conference.
They were older men now andthey mentioned how many got
(31:39):
saved during those three yearsat petitioning God.
Well, a few hands raised.
How many of you were bornduring that time?
Countless people stood up.
So you know, sometimes theanswer may look different.
It may look different as wepray, I would say also even as
we're waiting on God, for thosesituations that are causing us
always be open to let God workin your life Are always our
(32:03):
postures.
We pray, lord, is there anyadjustment you want me to make
in my life?
Is there any way you want meinvolved in the answer to this
prayer.
So obviously, the work he wantsto do in our life is always a
great priority Now,unfortunately, god works through
prayer but also the priority ofhim letting him work in our
life as well.
And God give great grace andgreat encouragement for anybody
(32:25):
who's listening to us, that iscrying to God for a situation,
and may God give them the wisdomas they wrestle with that very
good question.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
We are going to post link to where people can
purchase your book if they wantto.
But what would you say to ourlisteners if they were to read
your book?
What are some of the maintakeaways?
What should they hope to learnor resolve in their lives?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Well, I want them to know how they can find
motivation, encouragement andhelp and the power of the Spirit
to help them pray.
I want them to know how to praywhen they are tempted and how
those temptations can result insome of the most victorious
intercessions they'll everexperience.
I want them to know how torestore themselves to God for
(33:13):
the glory of His name.
There are many, many prayers.
I take them through anadventure there At the end to
believe God and as they'repraying for them, they're
praying for others that aretrusting God for them to
resurrect their prayer life.
The subtitle of the book isTransforming your Prayers Into a
Spirit-Enpowered, life-givingAdventure, and I believe it can
be that.
(33:34):
I pray that God would truly dosomething very, very special in
reviving their prayer life, andI think any believer that
doesn't see a need to makecontinued progress.
There's such a thing as theministry of prayer.
Now, I wouldn't say I have theministry of prayer.
I have a tremendous burden forprayer, but like that's the Anna
(33:56):
there in Luke 2.
She never left the temple,praying, serving the Lord night
and day, with fasting and prayer.
That's the ministry of prayer.
That's all she did.
I've met a couple of people inmy life that had that ministry.
I'm open to that ministry.
I don't have that because I domany, many other things right
now in addition to that, but Ipray that God would wonderfully,
wonderfully work and that theycould know that they could come
(34:18):
to God, teach me to pray, and Ipray that the book in some way
will help hear the God's voice,the Lord's voice in teaching
them to pray.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Thank you very much, bill, for this conversation and
for the book that you wrote.
I do believe that it's muchneeded and I know that it's
going to be a blessing to manyof our listeners.
Thank you, and wish you all thebest.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Thank you so much, Helen.
God bless you.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And there we have it, dear listeners A wealth of
practical advice and insightfrom Dr Bill Thrasher, who
challenged us to evaluate andperhaps take our prayer life to
the next level.
I hope today's conversation hasshed some light on pathways to
nurture and grow your connectionwith God through prayer.
(35:05):
As we wrap this enlighteningsession, I encourage you to
reflect on Dr Thrasher's wordsand explore the steps he
outlined in his guide how toResurrect a Dead Prayer Life.
Check out his website,victoriasprayingcom, for this
book and some more helpfulresources, and remember the
(35:26):
journey to a rich prayer lifetakes time and continuous growth
.
Thank you for joining me today.
If you enjoy these podcasts, Iencourage you to consider
supporting the production ofthese episodes, which reach
people in over 100 nationsacross the globe.
By sponsoring the next episodewith a donation of 10, 20, 50,
(35:50):
or maybe even $100, you helpspread the good news across the
world.
Thank you in advance.
Until next time.
I'm Helen Todd.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Limitless Spirit Podcast is produced by World
Missions Alliance.
We believe that changed liveschange lives.
If you want to see your lifetransformed by Christ's love, or
if you want to help those whoare hurting and hopeless and
discover your greater purpose inserving Christ through
short-term missionary work,check out our website, rfwmaorg,
(36:21):
and find out how to getinvolved.
What if you had a guide who could tell you how to
bridge a gap between who you aretoday and who you are destined
to be?
What if, each week, you couldhear a story of someone who has
tried and succeeded, or perhapstried and failed but learned
something in the process?
Limitless Spirit is a weeklypodcast where host Helen Todd
interviews guests about topicsand personal stories on defining
(00:23):
life's purpose, pursuingpersonal growth and developing a
deeper faith in Christ.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome, dear listeners, to another episode
where we explore the depths andnuances of the Christian life.
Today, we focus on the vitaland yet often challenging aspect
of prayer.
We are all too familiar withthe hurdles we face in
cultivating a fulfilling prayerlife.
There are distractions,discouragement and even times of
(00:51):
spiritual drought.
As believers, how can we movebeyond these barriers to truly
connect with Christ in ourprayers and develop a rich,
consistent and powerful prayerlife?
My guest today is Dr BillThrasher, a graduate professor
of Bible and theology at MoodyTheological Seminary.
He is also the author of therecent book how to Resurrect a
(01:16):
Dead Prayer Life.
Bill will guide us on a journeyto rediscover the essence of
prayer through clear andpractical steps that promise to
deepen our connection with God.
Here are some of the mostpressing questions that we are
going to address in thisinterview how do you identify a
dead prayer life?
How can a worried and franticperson begin to enjoy God's
(01:40):
presence and peace?
How can you reach heaven whenyou don't know how to pray or
what to pray for?
And how can your greateststruggles spur effective prayers
that defeat the evil one?
Join me for this importantconversation with Dr Thrasher
and unlock the secrets to a morefulfilling and profound prayer
(02:02):
life.
Hello Bill, welcome to theLimitless Spirit Podcast.
How are you today?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I'm doing just fine.
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I'm very excited that I stumbled upon your recent
book how to Resurrect a DeadPrayer Life, and the reason why
is I have been sort of on apersonal quest to deepen my
prayer life or improve thequality of my prayer life.
In fact, I picked up awonderful book by Charles
(02:34):
Spurgeon on prayer and spiritualwarfare and have been enjoying
this, and you can never go wrongwith any of his books.
But I don't think it's acoincidence that I came across
your book, and so I think it's avery important subject, because
I believe that as Christians weare only as good as our prayer
(02:55):
life.
That's really the essence ofour being as a Christian,
essence of our relationship withGod.
So I want to ask you a questionyou are a professor at the
Moody Bible Seminary.
Is this book more of anacademic research or it's
personal as well?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
It is both, and certainly my background is a
seminary study, new TestamentGreek in a message of theology
and systematic theology, butit's in the study taught by one
theology, but that's what droveme into the area of spiritual
formation and discipleship.
The goal of our instruction islove from a pure heart, clear
conscience, sincere faith.
(03:34):
Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy1.5.
So, and certainly even thetitle of the book how to
Resurrect a Dead Prayer Life isnot in any way talking down at
anybody.
He's really talking about myown experience, someone who
believed in prayer and very muchwas involved in it.
But after being around thechurch so many years and people
like pray for this, pray forthis, I tried to pray for it all
(03:55):
and I found myself one morninga crisis point that I really
sense that I was very involvedin the activity of prayer.
But I was saying, god, I thinkthe greatest gift you give me is
just take this burden off myback, because what I had sensed.
I've lost a real sense ofexpectancy, and so I needed to
learn something else aboutprayer.
(04:16):
You know, there's here, loudand clear, two things that are
taught.
One is prayer is very, very,very important, and I bought
into that.
Secondly, you need todiscipline yourself to do it,
and I had done that, but yet myprayer life died.
I lost to expectancy, I lost to, and so DL Moody, arguably the
greatest preacher of his day,said I'd rather teach one person
(04:36):
to pray than 10 people topreach.
There are five commands inrelationship to the Holy Spirit
Talk by the spirit, be filledwith the spirit, don't breathe
the spirit, don't quench thespirit, and pray in the spirit.
And that's what I said.
God, I want to put myself as alearner.
How is it that you've given theHoly Spirit to motivate and
guide and empower my prayer life?
I need to learn some freshlessons, and so it comes out of
(05:00):
my heart, it comes out of a deepstudy of scripture, and I pray
that God would graciously,lovingly encourage others that
prayer is not just a humanexperience.
It's something that we're notto live our Christian life by
ourselves.
We're to walk by the spirit,we're to pray in the spirit, and
(05:22):
so I try to in very practicalways share how we can do that.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So, before we touch on hows, let's talk about why it
seems like having a vibrantprayer life is one of the
biggest challenges of Christianlife.
In fact, I've you know,speaking from my personal
experience, and I've talked tomany famous pastors who confess
(05:47):
that they really feel like theirprayer life is not where they
want it to be.
And so why is it so difficultfor us to develop a good quality
prayer life?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well, I think, unquestionably it is a great
spiritual battle.
Here's when God wants to dosomething.
God puts a prayer burden, aprayer concern on somebody's
heart, is that personresponsible for that prayer
burden?
That's how the work of God isset in motion.
So if you as the prince of thepower there, if you as the devil
(06:21):
, if you as the adversary, theadversary of God, you obviously
would get God's people so revvedup and so busy and so that they
can't hear God, they can'tcooperate with him, because my
activity is not really a threatto his kingdom, but he trembles
when we pray.
It is a spiritual battle, butyou know God wants to come in
(06:42):
there and help us.
We don't.
He is greater, greater is hethan us and he is in the world.
And so we can call upon anomnipotent God.
And you know, when the disciplescame to Jesus, had Lord, teach
us to pray Luke 11, he spoke, heresponded and he'll.
Anyone's listening to us today?
He will respond and he knowswho you are, where your
(07:03):
situation is, what yourpersonality is, what your
schedule is, what the demands onyour life, and he is willing to
be a patient, loving teacher.
And so I just thank God for himhonoring that request to teach
you to pray.
He will even.
I thank God for the things I'veunlearned about prayer.
That and I thank God for everybaby step of progress so you
(07:26):
know God can revive your prayerlife and I praise God that I
need everything I'm tellingothers and I praise God for the
privilege of learning from theLord.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Your answer made me think of what I would consider
an inspiration or a model of avibrant prayer life.
Have you seen this movie, theWar Room?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yes, I have.
Yes, very good.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I think that this is a great example that our prayer
life is really spiritual warfare, our participation in spiritual
warfare and drawing from theexample of the disciples.
When Jesus asks them to pray inthe Garden of Gethsemane in his
most challenging hour, whathappens to them?
(08:13):
They fall asleep, and so theenemy clearly recognized that
their prayer would be verydetrimental to his plan.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And I think you know that before the Lord had
announced to Peter one placethat's in Mark 14, he says look,
I'm going to die and you're allgoing to fall away.
And in Peter's response and allothers chimed in too you see
that in Mark 14, verse 37, thefollowing says even if I have to
die with you.
I will never deny you.
I think he really meant that.
(08:44):
And so when the Lord chose histhree closest friends to go with
him to the Garden of Gethsemaneand ask him to keep watch with
him and pray three times, theyfell asleep, exactly like you
said.
But if you're convinced that,what you could never deny, why
not just get a little rest?
So we see, it's that spirit ofself-sufficiency.
God has to do something in alife, a breaking point.
(09:05):
He can do it many, many ways.
To show us that what we needprayer Now what the Lord, we see
he was fulfilled three times.
Peter denied the Lord, but wepraise God.
The story doesn't end there.
We see later in Matthew, john21, the Lord restores Peter.
Peter, do you love me?
Feed my sheep.
Three times he questioned him,gave him an opportunity to
(09:26):
affirm his love for the Lord.
You see a different man in thebook of Peter, in the book of
Acts.
He's not asleep but he'swaiting in the upper room for
that coming Holy Spirit.
He's in that prayer meeting.
You see, in Acts 242, they weredevoted to prayer.
Acts 31, he went up at the hourof prayer.
Acts 4, in the crisis momentthey call the spirit of prayer.
So you see him a different man,and so it's.
(09:47):
It's that is the key is, whatis God does something I like.
Romans 1311.
As they were sleeping, he saysit's time he's talking to the
Christians of Rome.
It's time for you to awakenfrom sleep.
The church is asleep and I putmyself in it without any kind of
condemnation upon anybody else,but God wants to wake us up.
Wake us up.
(10:07):
We're in a battle and we needto cry out to him to intervene.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I couldn't agree more with you.
So it seems like one answer orconclusion that we came to, that
the obstacle in the vibrancyand quality of our prayer life
is the spirit ofself-sufficiency.
And I was trying to do this onour own.
So that would be the first stepof recognizing that, I think,
(10:35):
would move us in the rightdirection.
So what's next?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Well, I think we've come to God in prayer and
confess this.
This is very unflattering, soI'll say it about me.
If you come to God and say,lord in and of myself, I don't
care about anybody but me.
What's in it for me just colorseverything that is our flesh.
I can't produce Christ likeferocity.
I can't produce Christ likecompassion, but the good news.
(11:00):
So you come to him in need.
God honors need in his infinitemercy.
He sets the needy securely onhigh, away from affliction.
The prayer of Psalm 72, 4, and5 saved the children of the
needy.
I always felt like my childrenqualified.
It says it does not lie withinman to direct his path.
I'm a sheep.
(11:20):
He delivered me from my strongenemy, for they were too mighty
for me.
God's opposed the proudestgrace to the humble.
So if you come to God in need,that is the first place.
You know I spent a year, numberof years ago.
Each year I come before theLord just trusting him for
certain things, and one year wasGod.
Would you show me how to beused to use a raise of prayer
among your people?
(11:40):
I laid that before the Lord fora year and I'm very attentive
throughout the year.
But you know there was onething God showed me that looked
very, very sparse.
At the end of that year I said,boy, couldn't somebody trust
God for an afternoon and get alot more than that.
But you know that one principleI've had the privilege to share
with thousands of people youjust tell God's people how to
make use of their needy moments.
(12:01):
Prayer is helplessness plusfaith.
Whatever there is.
It makes you sense your needfor God, thinking far and don't
even stumble over the faith.
It's just simply coming toJesus with that helplessness.
God honors that.
So that is the first place.
It's that posture.
And you know, if you want toknow the God's strategy in
keeping the person useful, hekeeps a person weak.
(12:22):
You know, that's that.
You know also Paul.
He gave him that thorn in theflesh.
He was concerned about him whenhe lifted up that prayer of the
Lord.
But he says you know, I'm goingto give you something better.
I'm going to give you thatweakness that allow you to
experience my grace and my power.
So don't despise your weakness.
It's the power of your prayerlife.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So I think the other reason, or an obstacle, I guess,
and maybe it's even from mypersonal experience sometimes we
just don't know how to pray,what to pray for, even for
ourselves, you know, and wedon't want to waste the Lord's
time with babbling.
So we want to be clear andconcise in our prayers.
(13:01):
So how do we overcome thisweakness of ours that?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Well, I just said two things regarding that.
Certainly, the idea of maybethree things, but certainly you
always pray your heart.
See, as Lewis says, the prayerthat precedes all prayer is this
let it be the real I who speak.
Let it be the real thou I speakto.
Pray your heart.
If you're fearful and you'repraying, you're not talking
about God, about that fear.
You're not praying.
If you're angry and you're notallowing God to enter into you
(13:32):
and put his healing hand uponthat hurt, beneath that anger,
you're not praying.
So there's many, many things toget a person to spy on, and
that's one of them.
It almost just become anactivity that you feel like you
need to do to soothe yourconscience and not really a
heart relationship with Lord.
Now you need the Spirit of Godto aid you in getting in touch
with your heart and praying yourheart.
Now, sometimes, even as you'reseeking to pray, your heart is.
(13:53):
Scripture says the Holy Spirithelps us in our weakness, for we
don't know how to pray as weought.
Sometimes we're weak and wedon't know how to pray as we
ought.
The worst thing you can dothere is pretend you do know how
to pray as you ought becauseyou know you're around the
church long enough.
Somebody asks you aboutsomething, pray about it, and
we've got to pray for alloccasions that we can dump on
you.
But sometimes we don't know howto pray as we ought and the
(14:14):
Holy Spirit intercedes withthose growing you too deep for
words.
Sometimes, just like Imentioned that thorn in the
flesh, when Paul prayed, lord,deliver me from this thorn in
the flesh, he really meant thatthat was a desire.
But there was a deeper desireunderneath Paul's heart that he
wasn't in touch with at thatmoment.
The deeper desire is God.
I want to know your grace andyour power in the fullest
possible extent and I'm going tobe the most useful believer I
(14:35):
can be.
So God did not give him hisdesire in order to give him a
deeper desire, and though hewasn't in touch with that.
But the Holy Spirit wasinterceding with those growing
you too deep for words.
So pray your heart, trust God'sspirit to help you pray when
you don't know how to pray.
And certainly I would say whatthe use of scripture.
We are weak.
That was a thing thatministered to me.
I'm so weak that God many timeshas to give me the very words
(14:57):
to articulate my heart to God,you know, go.
I remember going to the Psalmsone time and that's a great book
of prayer and finding passagesthere that helped me articulate
my heart to God.
You could say, god, protect me.
Or Psalm 17, 8, keep me as theapple of your eye, hide me in
the shadow of your wings.
You could say, god, encourageme.
Or you could say, god, makeglad the soul of your servant,
(15:18):
for to you I lift up my soul,for now I'm good, ready to
forgive abundant, loving, loving, kind of souls, to call upon
you.
Psalm 86, 4 and 5.
So see, god's given us His word.
He's given us many scripturalprayers.
In an earlier book I wrote aprayer, put it in the appendix
All the key references to prayer, all part of the Old Testament
and every reference to prayer inregard to the New Testament.
(15:39):
I pray through those orwhatever, and that's a
tremendous help.
So I think those are some waysthat God knows we're weak and we
need help in prayer.
He's given us the Holy Spiritto help us get in touch with the
heart, to pray our heart, topray our heart when we don't
know how to.
And he's given the Spirit,wrote His word.
So never divorce thedisciplines of prayer and
scripture.
(15:59):
If you're abiding me and myword's abiding, you ask whatever
you will and I shall be donefor you.
John 15, 7.
So when God's joined together,let no man separate.
He's put together thedisciplines of scripture and the
disciplines of prayer.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So can our temptations actually aid us in
our prayer life.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And it's one of the greatest aids.
And I tell you this somethinghelps me every day, and that's
no exaggeration, no hyperbole.
Every day of my life, atemptation is an appeal to meet
a legitimate need in anunrighteous way, and so your
temptations get you in touchwith the desires of your heart.
Now that it doesn't tell you,the temptation and okay it's it
(16:39):
offers you a fix for some paininside of you, but it's going to
lead you to guilt and bondageand intensified pain.
And so there you got to go backfor another fix, and that's the
cycle of addiction.
You know one very practicalthing that it's not a sin to be
tempted.
Jesus was tempted in all ways,yet without sin.
Pat down your most persistedtemptation and then ask God, god
(16:59):
, every time I'm tempted thisway, would you give me a prayer
request, a prayer burden thatI'm going to use this as a
prompting to pray and rememberthe dear man that shared that
with me about 40 years ago.
He says let it be a prayerrequest that will damage Satan's
kingdom, as God answers it.
So here the genius of thatyou're using the temptation to
(17:21):
do their own thing to become themotivation to do a godly thing,
and that helps me every day ofmy life, you know, if he starts
out just being a prayerpartnership with somebody.
When I'm tempted, I'm going topray for you and you're tempted,
you pray for me.
But think about every time amother or father was tempted to
have an imperial thought, theyprayed for the purity of their
children.
Every time a Christian was feltto be discouraged and in fiery
(17:42):
dark, to discouragement, athrone at all of us you prayed
for the encouragement of yourChristian leaders.
So the genius of that issometimes you'll get tired of
resisting something if you'renot saying yes to something else
.
So that is a tremendous helpand I beg God that everybody
would hear that and put thatinto practice.
Don't go to bed tonight withoutfiguring out what your
(18:02):
temptation is and how you'regoing to respond to that.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think this is a very, very practical advice.
I never thought of it this way.
I can't wait to try that.
So we talked a little bit abouthow we pray for ourselves.
Let's talk about how we prayfor others, how we transition
from the self-centeredness toactually and even in that
(18:28):
temptation prayer, I'm havingthat praying for others.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
When you're tempted, what can I pray?
And that is for others.
That does take attention offherself, but that may not be the
question you're asking now, sogo ahead, but that is praying
for others.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
So, yeah, this is a great way, because I think that
the enemy's goal is to keep usfocused and centered on
ourselves.
That's the most miserable lifewhen your greatest needs are
your own and your greatest focusis yourself.
There can't be anything moremiserable than that.
So what is some other advicethat you have for expanding your
(19:04):
prayer life towards the needsof others, and maybe even being
the vice president of a missionsorganization?
Our focus is to engage thechurch into praying for the
nations, praying for the peoplein the other parts of the world
where they may have never evenset foot before or have heard of
that.
That takes a great level ofspiritual maturity to care
(19:26):
enough.
And so what would you say topeople to encourage their prayer
life to expand even beyond theneeds of the people they know
and love, to the people thatthey may never encounter?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You know it's God can expand your heart.
I think many times praying withothers can expand your heart.
I do pray for the world, I prayfor the various contents of the
world and I go throughOperation World in regard to
praying for, but you know ithelps me when I'm praying for
others.
I remember we at our school wewent one particular time we had
(20:03):
this particular time.
We had a Friday morning prayermeeting where we prayed for the
revival of our own lives andalso intercessions of the world.
We usually bring aninternational student to talk to
us about her country or hiscountry.
And you know, as I said, I prayfor the world and I've been to
some parts of the world.
But I remember when thisChinese student, when they
prayed for China, they wept.
(20:24):
You know that sometimes is hepraying with others and exposure
to others it does expand yourheart and it becomes not quite
as theoretical.
I know individuals that Iformer students that I had many
years ago when I began to taketrips to see them took eight
(20:45):
trips down there to Mexico wherethey weren't a very dangerous
part.
You know that, even though Iknew them and I knew about the
situation, it was so differentjust being there.
So I know everybody can't gothere in it but our prayers can
go where we can't go.
But what I'm saying, exposureto need is a tremendous help.
Praying with others who maybehave a first-hand exposure to
(21:07):
that is a tremendous help.
So certainly I love the prayersof scripture too.
That can tell us how I mean Ilove those.
One of my favorite prayers isEphesians 1, 15 to 23.
To pray hope into people'slives, hope, that precious word.
You know till that devil isdespair, those fiery darts he
throws at every one of us.
(21:27):
You know that.
Hope that he says I pray thatyou know the riches of the glory
of his inheritance, not justthat you haven't inherited us,
but that we are God'sinheritance.
It's a way that people willknow that they are God's
treasured ones.
Never underestimate how cruelthe devil is.
He tries to put those.
I remember a dear lady.
She said the breakthrough inher life was when a man of God
(21:49):
came up to her and looked herstraight in the eyes and said
look, I want to tell you onething you're not just a piece of
dirt.
She said all her life she'dseen herself more valuable than
a piece of dirt.
Now God didn't put that thoughtin you.
But the evil one is very, verycruel.
And so I'm just that thatEphesians 1.15 to 23,.
That's a great way to aid andguide your prayer.
You said I pray.
(22:09):
You know the power that raisedJesus from the dead, the kind of
power that give you power overover over sin and death.
And also the resurrection poweris the power that gives victory
out of a parent defeat.
When Jesus was in the grave itlooked like the enemies of
righteousness had won, but Godwas winning his greatest victory
.
Now that's a way of God in ourlife.
Many times before God would dosomething special.
(22:30):
He will bring you low.
He'll bring you low and you candespair in that moment or you
can cry out to God andexperience that resurrection
power.
So those are some of the waysyou use scriptural prayers and
expose yourself to need and evenfor people who can feel those
burdens even a greater way thanyou feel, it's been a help.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Well, and sometimes all it takes is the intention.
When you were speaking aboutthe Chinese students.
I have a very good real lifeexample from our ministry where,
you know, back in the verybeginning of our ministry, a
friend of my husband's invitedhim to go to China with him, and
my husband had absolutely zerodesire to go to China.
(23:14):
And so the friend said Well, Iwill send you a map of China.
Would you pray for China?
And my husband agreed with that.
There was no emotion, there wasno desire, but there was an
intention.
So he promised and therefore heprayed for China.
Looking at this map, do youknow that six months later he
was on the airplane with hisfriend flying to China?
(23:35):
Because sometimes it startswith intention and then the
emotion comes.
You know, and that's the powerof prayer you start and then the
Holy Spirit does his work anddoes the rest, and so sometimes
you don't feel like doing that,but if you make an intention,
(23:55):
then God does the rest.
So one of the things that I,again, I think it can be an
obstacle in our prayer life isthe worry.
Yes, when you are in a crisis,when you are facing an
exceedingly difficult situationwhere it's just beyond your
control, beyond your naturalability to confront, sometimes
(24:17):
this worry brings our prayerlife to a halt because it just
takes over.
So what are some practical waysto combat this?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
That's an excellent.
Certainly we all.
Like I said, it's not just tobe tempted, and we're all
tempted with those fire darts ofanxiety, but the, you know, god
tells us to be anxious fornothing.
He tells us to cast all ourcares upon him and we pray, even
for the ones that will belistening to us.
Now, anything between any of usin full obedience to that
command, that God would evenhelp us make that transition.
(24:51):
But you know, if God only toldus to be anxious for nothing,
that really wouldn't help us,because now not only we know we
anxious, now we know we'resinning, so that doesn't help.
But he says don't be anxiousfor nothing.
But he says, every time you'retempted to be anxious, god is
drawing you into a conversationwith himself.
He says talk to me.
Sometimes you have to talk tohim and say Lord, what is it
that I'm really anxious about,as you talk to him.
And then he says, as you talkto him, tell me what you want me
(25:14):
to do about it.
Let your requests be made knownto God.
Prayer was supplication,specific request.
And then, as you talk to him,sometimes we have to go to
scripture saying God, would youshow me and guide me how to
petition you in regard to thisconcern.
Sometimes you need other peoplepraying with you in regard to
that.
And the third thing he says isThanksgiving.
You can talk to God about yourworry problem and you can
(25:37):
petition him, and you can getmore wrapped up in the problem
than in God, but Thanksgiving iswhat lifts your heart to God.
Thank you, lord, that you don'twant me burdened.
Thank you that your load islight, thank you that you care
more about this than I do.
And so if those are thepractical ways that God has
shown us to carry that burden,that's a big way you get to know
God.
That's a big way you get toknow his word.
When his word has shown you howto petition him, how to trust
(26:00):
him with a particular anxiety.
You understand Peter's wordswhen he talks about the promise
of God being these precious andmagnificent promises.
They are precious andmagnificent when they've enabled
you to what To live in peace.
That peace that Jesus said hewanted to leave his disciples
with.
My peace, I give it to you, notas the world gives, the peace
(26:21):
that sustained him, even thoughhe woke up every day and there
was a plot to kill him.
We marveled that a man couldexist in those circumstances.
But in his humanity he couldlive with peace, and he wants to
train you and me to live withpeace.
So we praise God for that, thathe is a God of peace and wants
to give us that peace and toguard our hearts and minds in
(26:41):
Christ Jesus.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So our conversation about prayer, I don't think
would be complete if we didn'ttalk about the Lord's prayer.
So when Jesus gives us thisexample of how to pray, what is
he teaching us through this?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Well, I think you certainly see a pattern.
You know, many times the way weuse it is almost in tethysis of
what he's just talked about.
He says don't just use me asrepetition.
Sometimes we quoted as if itjust means repetition.
But he's given a pattern.
And you know it's interestingwhen a person says teach me to
pray or teach me to study theBible, somebody's sort of
(27:18):
they're sort of wanting, in noway, it's not as simple as that.
They're sort of wanting a one,two, three, four beginning step.
And I think that's what hegives them.
He doesn't mean you freeze itand make it it uh wrote and lose
all meaning to it.
But you start with God, ourFather, born in heaven.
You, uh, how will be your name,lord?
This is, this is about you.
And to how will be your name?
You come in submission bykingdom.
(27:40):
Come, that will be done.
Earth is in heaven.
So you come in submission, youcome in recognizing God and then
, as he goes through the variouspetitions, forgive us our
trespasses.
We forgive those who trespassagainst us.
If there's anger in your heart,do that, ask Him.
You don't earn forgiveness byforgiving others, but if you
(28:00):
help bitterness in your heart,you're not in a position to
receive the cleansing that Godwants to give you.
Give me this day my dailyprayer In His praying, not just
for you, give us, it's praying,in a sense, for others as well.
So you do see a beautifulpattern there in the Lord's
Prayer that can be very, veryhelpful.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I think it's not a coincidence that he puts that
the kingdom come.
That will be done in the verybeginning, because I think it is
focused to our prayers.
This is where it takes thefocus from us being the center
of the universe and recognizingthat we exist for the purpose of
(28:37):
God's will and His kingdom, andI think this is helpful in our
prayers as we come with whateverneed that we're facing, that in
the end, the most importantthing is that it is God's will
that matters.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And he's the Master.
We're the servant, and so wecome to Him.
Lord, the posture of our heartis God.
What do you want me to trustyou for?
What do you want me to trustyou for?
We know that His will isultimately our best.
He makes His will lookattractive because it is, it's,
good, acceptable, perfect willof God.
So we want His will, and sowhen we're struggling, we let
(29:13):
our desires be known to God,like our precious Lord did, as
he was anticipating the cross.
But he said yet not my will,but that will be done.
So I think that is.
I would totally agree with that.
That that's very important.
That's the beginning of Histeaching on prayer, there in the
Lord's prayer.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And this kind of leads me to the next question,
or maybe it helps us answer thenext question how do we deal
with unanswered prayers and thefact that the scripture promises
us?
To ask whatever you wish in myname and it will be given to you
(29:45):
, but yet not all of our prayersare answered.
So what helps us reconcile thisconflict?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yes, well, certainly, you know, sometimes they're not
answered in the way that we'reasking and certainly we have the
potential of asking a miss.
We want part of it.
We want to look at, first ofall, the idea of when I'm asking
.
You know he tells the peoplethere in James 4, you don't have
because you don't ask, and Iknow he's going to anticipate
(30:15):
them saying don't say we're notasking, we're asking, asking,
asking, not receiving.
Yes, you're asking and notreceiving, because what you ask,
that you may spend it on yourown pleasures, now that doesn't
mean that what you can't ask forsomething if you really want it
, that doesn't mean that at all.
But the solution there is whenyou bring them down there, to
verse 7 of that James 4, submit,therefore, to God.
When I want something more thanI want God, something's wrong.
(30:37):
Let God be your servant.
Now, lord, let me tell you what.
No, I'm His servant, and so heloves us so much.
He wants to give us.
His will will be our very best,and so that's part of it.
There may be some reasons that,if I regard iniquity in my heart
, the Lord will not hear he whodoes not listen to God's word.
(30:58):
In obedience, he says what hewill not.
Our prayers can be atabomination, so there can be
blame where they cause.
There are other times that well, like we've mentioned, the idea
of didn't answer us to removethe thorn in the flesh because
God wanted to give themsomething better.
God had a deeper desire in ourheart.
Sometimes it may be a timingthing.
(31:18):
I remember these two individuals.
They said they prayed for yearsthat God was in revival in this
particular and after aboutthree years they sort of just
felt released from that prayerburden and didn't seem like much
happened.
But about 20 or 30 years laterthey were at a pastor's
conference.
They were older men now andthey mentioned how many got
(31:39):
saved during those three yearsat petitioning God.
Well, a few hands raised.
How many of you were bornduring that time?
Countless people stood up.
So you know, sometimes theanswer may look different.
It may look different as wepray, I would say also even as
we're waiting on God, for thosesituations that are causing us
always be open to let God workin your life Are always our
(32:03):
postures.
We pray, lord, is there anyadjustment you want me to make
in my life?
Is there any way you want meinvolved in the answer to this
prayer.
So obviously, the work he wantsto do in our life is always a
great priority Now,unfortunately, god works through
prayer but also the priority ofhim letting him work in our
life as well.
And God give great grace andgreat encouragement for anybody
(32:25):
who's listening to us, that iscrying to God for a situation,
and may God give them the wisdomas they wrestle with that very
good question.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
We are going to post link to where people can
purchase your book if they wantto.
But what would you say to ourlisteners if they were to read
your book?
What are some of the maintakeaways?
What should they hope to learnor resolve in their lives?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Well, I want them to know how they can find
motivation, encouragement andhelp and the power of the Spirit
to help them pray.
I want them to know how to praywhen they are tempted and how
those temptations can result insome of the most victorious
intercessions they'll everexperience.
I want them to know how torestore themselves to God for
(33:13):
the glory of His name.
There are many, many prayers.
I take them through anadventure there At the end to
believe God and as they'repraying for them, they're
praying for others that aretrusting God for them to
resurrect their prayer life.
The subtitle of the book isTransforming your Prayers Into a
Spirit-Enpowered, life-givingAdventure, and I believe it can
be that.
(33:34):
I pray that God would truly dosomething very, very special in
reviving their prayer life, andI think any believer that
doesn't see a need to makecontinued progress.
There's such a thing as theministry of prayer.
Now, I wouldn't say I have theministry of prayer.
I have a tremendous burden forprayer, but like that's the Anna
(33:56):
there in Luke 2.
She never left the temple,praying, serving the Lord night
and day, with fasting and prayer.
That's the ministry of prayer.
That's all she did.
I've met a couple of people inmy life that had that ministry.
I'm open to that ministry.
I don't have that because I domany, many other things right
now in addition to that, but Ipray that God would wonderfully,
wonderfully work and that theycould know that they could come
(34:18):
to God, teach me to pray, and Ipray that the book in some way
will help hear the God's voice,the Lord's voice in teaching
them to pray.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Thank you very much, bill, for this conversation and
for the book that you wrote.
I do believe that it's muchneeded and I know that it's
going to be a blessing to manyof our listeners.
Thank you, and wish you all thebest.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Thank you so much, Helen.
God bless you.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And there we have it, dear listeners A wealth of
practical advice and insightfrom Dr Bill Thrasher, who
challenged us to evaluate andperhaps take our prayer life to
the next level.
I hope today's conversation hasshed some light on pathways to
nurture and grow your connectionwith God through prayer.
(35:05):
As we wrap this enlighteningsession, I encourage you to
reflect on Dr Thrasher's wordsand explore the steps he
outlined in his guide how toResurrect a Dead Prayer Life.
Check out his website,victoriasprayingcom, for this
book and some more helpfulresources, and remember the
(35:26):
journey to a rich prayer lifetakes time and continuous growth
.
Thank you for joining me today.
If you enjoy these podcasts, Iencourage you to consider
supporting the production ofthese episodes, which reach
people in over 100 nationsacross the globe.
By sponsoring the next episodewith a donation of 10, 20, 50,
(35:50):
or maybe even $100, you helpspread the good news across the
world.
Thank you in advance.
Until next time.
I'm Helen Todd.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Limitless Spirit Podcast is produced by World
Missions Alliance.
We believe that changed liveschange lives.
If you want to see your lifetransformed by Christ's love, or
if you want to help those whoare hurting and hopeless and
discover your greater purpose inserving Christ through
short-term missionary work,check out our website, rfwmaorg,
(36:21):
and find out how to getinvolved.
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