April 16, 2025 • 28 mins
Why doesn’t your makeup last all day?
Dr. Jen Haley and pro makeup artist Ashley reveal the secret most people miss: it starts with your skincare—especially exfoliation.
Ashley shares her go-to techniques for seamless, natural looks, from picking the right primer to avoiding clashing product bases. They also get real about the unrealistic beauty standards set by social media and why you should ditch the magnifying mirror.
Looking ahead to 2025, Ashley says it’s all about the “clean girl” aesthetic and discovering what truly works for you.
If you want makeup that enhances, not hides, your skin, this episode is your new go-to! Listen now!
• ABOUT THE GUEST •
Connect with Ashley Shammam, a San Diego-based makeup artist specializing in bridal and special occasion glam. With over five years of experience, Ashley is passionate about helping clients feel radiant and confident on life’s most memorable days.
From weddings to milestone moments, she brings beauty to life with expert tips, creative inspiration, and a personalized touch for every look.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the
podcast where science meetsnature to celebrate the story of
your skin.
Your skin is a living canvas,ever evolving, deeply personal
and uniquely yours.
Each week, we'll dive into thescience of healthy skin, share
empowering stories and uncovertransformative self-care rituals
.
We're here to help you embraceevery phase of your journey with
(00:22):
confidence and care.
Hi everyone, Welcome to thisweek's episode of Listen to your
Skin by Moon and Skin.
I'm your host, Dr Jen Haley,and on this week's episode I
have Ashley.
Hello, she glammed me up today.
All of you who know me knowthat I am a tomboy.
I run out the door with alittle bit of tinted sunscreen,
so I'm looking quite glammedtoday, thanks to Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
She looks beautiful.
If you guys are watching theclip, just know she looks
amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank you, Ashley.
So in your job, you often makepeople look and feel better than
they might feel on their own.
We want to dive into that andwhat that means to most people,
but before we get started, Iwant to understand from your
perspective as a makeup artist,something that I know nothing
about and I get a lot ofquestions on.
What can people do regardingtheir skincare in order to make
(01:10):
their makeup preparation work alittle bit better?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I would say the most important thing is exfoliation
because, as we know, throughoutthe day our face tends to just
build up oil and all thesethings.
So when a client comes to me,the first thing I ask them is
have you exfoliated today?
When was the last time youwashed your face?
That's always the firstquestion.
And if they've been runningaround, you know running errands
(01:36):
, or they've been out of thehouse for a while and I could
tell that you know there's justthe day is sitting on their face
.
Basically the day is sitting ontheir face.
Basically, um, the first thing Iwill do is take an exfoliating
pad and wipe all of that off,because your makeup's not going
to look as good or last as longwith all of these pre-existing
oils and on your face.
So I think that's the mostimportant thing, um, moisturize,
(01:57):
and I wouldn't say I wouldactually ask my clients to not
come to me with their skincarebecause some products don't work
well with certain skincareproducts.
So I'd rather you comeexfoliated, tell me what your
skin type is like and I'll dothe rest for you.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Okay, this is so good to know.
And now I understand why youasked me if you could take my
stuff off before we started andI was like no, don't take my
tinted sunscreen off.
Okay, so this morning Icleansed, I applied my vitamin C
product, then I applied anenzyme exfoliant and then my
tinted sunscreen.
So do you think my makeup wouldhave sat better if I did not,
(02:37):
if I allowed you to take it alloff beforehand?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, um, it looks great while I'm looking at you.
It does look great, Everyonedoes Um if, during the process,
I noticed certain things weren'tsitting right or starting to
get splotchy, I would have beenlike, hey, jen, I think we
should take that off, and Iwould have probably asked you
again if we could put a makeupwipe to your face.
It kind of just depends,because maybe what you put on
(03:03):
under your skin did work wellwith my products, which it looks
like it did.
So I mean, I kind of just keptgoing with it, but had I noticed
it didn't, we would have had tohave that conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, oh, I love this so much.
This is great because, I mean,I've been a board certified
dermatologist for over 20 yearsand I get asked so many
questions about makeup and Ijust don't even know how to
answer them.
And what you're saying aboutexfoliating makes complete sense
from a physiologicalperspective, because we have
these dead keratinocytes, likewe have the dead skin cells on
our skin, and the makeup is notgoing to apply evenly if those
(03:32):
aren't exfoliated.
So I mean, I always wonderwhere we draw the line between
too much exfoliation and notenough exfoliation.
And it's really when somebodystarts to get irritated.
Is that what you see?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think so too yeah, and I don't, I don't over
exfoliate, I don't do anythingcrazy, I just they're like tiny
little exfoliating pads and Ihand them to my client and I'm
like just, you know, wipe yourface.
It's, it's very, it's verysurface level.
It's not anything too deep orpenetrating, um, but it does.
It works wonders for me.
I have seen my clients come inand I forget to use it on them
(04:05):
and then I'll do their makeupagain and I will use the
exfoliating pad and I'm likenight and day between the two of
how their makeup looked inphotos or throughout the day.
And they'll tell me too.
I love that exfoliating pad yougave me.
It made such a big difference.
So exfoliation, it's like thenumber one thing.
I always tell my clients pleaseexfoliate before you come see
me, if you can.
If not, I'll take care of you asyou have, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
As you have.
So, okay, this this is a commonquestion regarding exfoliation,
because people often don'texfoliate enough to your point,
and then some people overdo itas well.
So if you're at home and you'relistening and you're wondering,
like, how much is enoughexfoliation, it's going to
change depending on the season,your menstrual cycle, where you
live.
Like our body changes.
(04:49):
It's a moving target and itchanges all the time.
So if your skin is burning orpeeling or red, you're
exfoliating too much, and if itlooks dry and dull and your
makeup is not staying, thenyou're not exfoliating it enough
, and what works one week mightnot work the next week.
So listen to your skin by Moonand Skin.
(05:10):
Okay, so what are the key stepsthat everybody should take
before applying makeup?
Like, are there certainingredients you want people to
use on their skin before makeup,certain ingredients you want
people to avoid before makeup,besides just making sure they're
exfoliated?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
You know, whatever works for you.
I always say like don't fixsomething if it's not broken.
So if someone comes and asks mefor advice, I will recommend
them products based off of whatI know from what they're telling
me about their skin.
But I don't really try toadvise someone to do something
when I don't really know.
You know what they're using athome or what their skin is like,
(05:48):
unless they're sitting in mychair, which I only see them for
an hour or so.
But I'm able to give goodadvice.
I just try to tailor it to theperson and what they're asking
me.
But if no one's really askingme, I try to just stay out of
that conversation.
Um, because I'm not trying tobe the reason.
Someone like breaks out orhates a product or whatever it
is.
So right, that's kind of my takeon that.
(06:10):
Um, but yeah, do you um?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
do you have recommendations for specific
makeup lines that you think arecleaner or that are less likely
to cause breakouts and cloggingof pores?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
100 there%, there are so many and especially if
someone were to come to me andtell me I have sensitive skin.
I have three lines that I willgravitate towards the most and
one especially.
I don't know that I want tolike, say names or but one
especially.
I've had four different clientstell me that they're actually
allergic to not the clean uh,clear skin like brands, but a
(06:46):
very well-known in Sephora brand.
There's a specific product inthere that four of my clients
are allergic to and I took thatcompletely out of my kit, like
everything in that in that line.
Um, just because some peopledon't know, these, four of my
clients do know the otherhundred hundred of them might
not know.
Um, but yeah, definitely, ifsomeone comes to me the.
(07:07):
My second question after haveyou exfoliated, do you have
sensitive skin?
And if the answer is yes, Iknow exactly what products I'm
reaching for.
You can name them.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I can name them.
Yeah, we want to give peoplesome usable information.
I love Rare Beauty Rare.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Beauty is such a clean brand.
What about Ilia?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I've been using Ilia.
Say Beauty I think brand, umwhat other?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
brands.
What about ilia?
I've been using ilia.
Say beauty.
I think they don't really saysay yeah, s-a-i-e.
I don't know if they marketthemselves to be like a clean
makeup brand, but I absolutelylove their products.
None of my clients have had anyish like.
If anything, they'll come backand be like what was that that
you used on my face?
And it's always.
It's always say or rare beauty.
Is that what you used on metoday?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I did use a say Yep, I like it, yeah, okay, okay.
So that's I mean the one.
The one thing I want to mentionabout sensitive skin or
somebody who develops anallergic contact dermatitis to a
product.
I often will see a problem withthis before it can't be my
makeup, and what happens withcontact dermatitis is the first
time.
Even if we come into contactwith poison ivy, which is like
(08:10):
the gold standard of what acontact dermatitis looks like is
, you won't have a reaction toit, and then, the more we come
into contact with an ingredient,there are certain types of
ingredients like acrylates,which can be found in nails or
glue, or probably like the fakeeyelash glue.
Yeah, the adhesive yeah, theadhesive, thank you.
The acrylates are a commonissue.
(08:33):
We even see them in AppleWatches and all sorts of
different things.
But with preservatives inmakeup which we want
preservatives so that they don'tgo bad and have mold on them
and all sorts of other problemswe can develop allergies to them
over years.
So you can use something for 10years and not have any problems
and then year number 11, youcan develop an allergy to it.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So that's why it's important to realize that your
skin isn't static.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It's a dynamic living organism that basically can
develop allergies to things.
So it's good to be aware ofwhat's out there.
So you mentioned sensitive skin, but what about if someone has
oily or dry skin?
What would they do differentlywith their makeup application?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I try to take care of that with the type of primers
that I use.
So if someone tells me thatthey're oily, I love the milk
hydro grip primer, I'll normallyreach for that.
And powders I know people tryto stay away from them because
they can settle into fine lines.
But if you're greasy Irecommend maybe just putting on
a little more powder during thatstep of the application.
(09:35):
Those are like my two mainthings, and most of the times
clients will come back to me whogrease after an hour and say
like hey, my makeup was on for16 hours and I didn't even have
to blot and it was because ofthose two things.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Okay, so I'm going to keep coming back to me because
I'm I don't wear this muchmakeup normally and I'm
fascinated by what you do.
So because I'm more oily in theT zone and drier on the
periphery is, did you put themilk primer on the periphery and
more powder centrally?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So because you've already had preexisting the
tinted sunscreen.
I didn't know how that wasgoing to react with the primer,
so I use the more powder optionand I did.
I used a little more on theT-zone, but also I tried to not
use too much underneath the eyesbecause we don't want that
settling into fine lines.
So I was very careful with mypowder placement when it came to
(10:23):
you to try to make sure thisarea doesn't grease.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Are you saying I have a lot of fine lines in that
area?
No, no, no, we all do.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I do, oh my gosh Even and you know, a question that
people ask me often is when I dostart to get these lines.
After you know an hour or so ofmy makeup sitting on my face,
what do I do?
Because it's just normal thatthese lines are going, the
makeup's gonna settle in and weall have lines.
My biggest tip is to never,ever, take a brush, put more
(10:51):
product in it on it and put thaton your face, because that's
only going to penetrate deeperinto those lines and make them
look more visible.
I would take a brush withabsolutely nothing on it and
kind of just wiggle it back andforth and what that's going to
do is move the powder that'salready there, that's settling
into those lines and kind ofmake everything look a little
(11:11):
more cohesive in that area.
So I do that every hour or soyeah, I like that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I mean it makes sense because you know we're making
faces and micro expressions andas we do that, the powder's
falling into the creases, whichis natural and normal, and we
want that right yeah and okay.
So as opposed to applying morepowder and having more
opportunity for those to fallinto the creases, we're just
blending together what's thereas a touch-up through the day
exactly okay, and then I noticedyou applied setting spray.
(11:41):
What is setting spray and whatdoes that do?
And does do people use thatevery day or a special occasion
kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
um, I would every day or a special occasion kind of
thing.
I would say more of a specialoccasion type of thing.
You can use it every day if younotice that your makeup does
tend to not last as long.
But I love setting spray andI'm going to shout out one size
until dawn setting spray, that'swhat I used on you.
It's basically a hairspray foryour face and you know, you had
that little reaction whereyou're like oh my gosh, I wasn't
(12:08):
expecting that.
Um, I think it's so importantbecause it just takes it to the
next level.
When I finish doing someone'smakeup, I want to make sure that
they're happy with it the sameway they are sitting in my chair
in that exact moment throughoutthe rest of the day, and that
the setting sprays is reallywhat you know goes a long way.
I have had clients leave andI'll text them and I'll be like
(12:30):
I forgot to spray you and ifthey're still in the area,
they'll come right back.
I'll spray them really quicklyand then they'll go about their
date or they're like thank youso much for telling me like I'll
spray at home.
I think it's so important.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So love a setting spray so it just sorts of holds
it.
It holds it in place.
What if I went and I if I goand sweat?
It's not going to quite work,or it will endure a little bit,
but not a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So this specific setting spray went viral on
tiktok because there was a girlwho I forget if she jumped in a
pool or like was in labor orwhatever it was and her face did
not move.
And that is what made thatspecific setting spray take off.
Because I think actually it wasboth things it was one girl
(13:14):
jumping into a pool and anothergirl was like let's see how this
works, I'm about to have a babyand their faces looked
incredible.
So I guess it just depends.
I've never tried it out.
I have it on my face right now.
I could go home and I don'tknow, maybe I'll get back to you
on that one.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I may jump in a pool, but I'm not gonna go through
labor with this.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah right, I've already been there, that's
enough that's great.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, that's great.
Yeah, I really love that.
Um okay.
So let's jump into some of thebiggest mistakes that you see
people make.
I'm sure I've done all of thembiggest mistakes, as in prior to
makeup application or just ingeneral, anything like that you
notice that people do tonegatively affect their makeup,
(13:58):
maybe applying the wrongproducts, applying it
incorrectly yeah to, like, maybeoffset their, their greatest
asset?
um, using things in combinationthat shouldn't be used in
combination with.
I mean, I'm just making thingsup, so I was actually going to
touch on that is.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Some people will say certain products don't work well
together, and that's becausethose products probably don't
work well together because ofwhat they're made of.
So you have to look at whateach product.
Is it like a water-basedproduct?
Is it an oil-based product?
Is it a silicone-based product?
Let's say you have awater-based foundation with a
silicone based primer.
(14:34):
Those two might not or sorry,they might work better as if
opposed if it were an oil-basedprimer and then a water-based
foundation.
So not many people.
I'm a makeup artist so I haveto do this because I need to
know what works best in my kiton a day-to-day.
Do I want my clients going andresearching you know what
(14:58):
exactly is in their products?
You don't have to.
But if you notice it's notworking, then I would say try to
figure out why.
And is it because of whatingredients are in your
foundation versus your primer,versus your powder?
Are they just not working welltogether?
And that's kind of how youfigure that out.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Okay, so I don't know what a primer versus a
foundation versus a powder is.
As you know, when I walked inhere today, I wear a tinted
sunscreen and then maybe someblush.
So what are these differentsteps that people could be doing
at home?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
so I always say we can start prior to applying any
makeup on your face.
I always say, if you're at homeabout to do your makeup, let's
wash your face, exfoliate,moisturize.
If you're oily, or let's sayyou're not even oily and you
would just rather look a littlebit more dewy a primer is where
(15:49):
you can kind of fix, you know,make yourself look the way you
want to look.
If you want to look more mattetowards the end, we'll use a
mattifying primer.
If you want to look more dewytowards the end, we'll use a
dewy primer.
And this is all before we putany foundation or makeup on our
face.
So that's primer is right beforefoundation, and then I would go
(16:10):
in with a layer of foundation.
So you kind of have to makesure those two things will work
well together, because they'rethe first products you're
putting on your face and thenafter that, uh, concealer.
I mean I don't really see adifference of which kind of
concealer you use.
I think the main three thingspeople should focus on if they
don't like the way their skinlooks are primer, foundation and
(16:32):
powder.
Do the three that you're usingwork well together and if you
feel like they're not, theyprobably aren't and to take care
of that first okay, that makesgood sense, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So, besides that, what are other mistakes that you
see?
People like just say we'resitting at the mall or we're
walking in a shopping center.
I mean, I, I notice thingsabout people because of what I
do for a living, like I'llnotice birthmarks or funny moles
or things that look like a skincancer, um all sorts of things,
because there's over 3 000diagnoses in dermatology.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So I'm I know you're asking me what do I?
Yeah, what do you notice?
What do?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
you notice, like mistakes that people do wrong,
you know, or maybe trends thathave gone bad.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Trends that have gone bad definitely, I would say,
maybe over contouring.
So what is contouring?
Contouring is when you take abronzer, a darker shade, and you
kind of place it in the areasthat you want to enhance your
cheekbones, your forehead, tomake it a little shorter yep,
right here on your neck, likeyour chin.
But it can be taken a littleoverboard.
(17:33):
I hate when I see like thesharpest line and it's orange,
and then you know the rest ofsomeone's face is like a your
skin's, not orange, it's either,you know, like fair, medium tan
, whatever it is.
I don't like seeing that harshline, that discrepancy between
the the bronzer or the contouror even the blush.
(17:54):
I think it's very important tokind of you can put these things
on your face in the areas thatyou want them and then after
that, let's, let's marry themthey're dating and then let's,
let's marry the products.
Together is my type of thing.
So I guess that's what Inoticed is when products on
someone's face aren't married.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I would say I like that.
That's a good term.
Yeah, we definitely want to getthings married.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
OK, yeah, that's interesting.
And as you're talking, I'mthinking when we see ourselves
in the mirror, we see ourselvestwo-dimensionally.
So we might be like, and itlooks good two-dimensionally,
but in real live action thosesort of very contrasting colors
and shades don't look, could betoo harsh.
Yeah, like in a, an actionableway.
(18:39):
It just doesn't look realistic.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So that's that's great, okay.
Another thing I would say too,as far as like mistakes go when
someone's wanting to do theirown makeup for an event or to go
out and they'll come to me likewell, I need you to do my
makeup because it doesn't lookhow it looks when you do it,
what do you do?
How do you get it to look thatway?
Because when I put it on makeup, it doesn't look like it's glam
(19:04):
or it doesn't really show up inphotos.
And my biggest advice is you'reprobably not using enough
product, especially like it'sglam or it doesn't really show
up in photos.
And my biggest advice is you'reprobably not using enough
product, especially if it's forthat special occasion.
Uh, pictures tend to washthings out.
So if you're, I see people, youknow I'm like well, how much
foundation do you use?
Not just.
And they'll pump once.
And I'm like, okay, so let's gothrough what I'm doing for you
(19:24):
and I'll start pumping.
And I'm like one, two, three,five, and I just see my client's
eyes like expanding and I'mlike that's how much it takes
for you to look how you lookwhen you leave my chair.
So, just so they kind of get anidea If you're not liking the
way it looks in photos andspecial occasions.
You probably just need a littlemore.
I would play around with it.
I wouldn't just do it an hourbefore your event and leave the
(19:44):
house, maybe like experiment.
But definitely experiment withmore product, I would say.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, that's a really good point, because I feel like
I could put what I consider alot of makeup on, and then I get
photos and it doesn't look likeI have any makeup on, because
it's it does look washed out.
And even today I'm like, okay,I think we're done and you're
like, no, we're not done.
I'm like okay, you're the experthere, you're the expert, okay.
So, um, you know there'ssomething else.
So my sister is a makeup artistin Milan.
(20:11):
She works on the runways andit's very extravagant and, you
know, it's very artistic.
It's not so much real life likewhat you're dealing with, and
she'll often send me photos ofwhat people look like without
makeup.
So there's this false illusionthat I think we live in in the
actual world, where we seerunway models or people on the
(20:32):
covers of magazines or you knowall social media and then
reality TV for sure, wherepeople look so perfect and we
think that people don't have anypores or any wrinkles or
anything like that.
And, as a dermatologist, I seeeveryone with no clothes on,
with no makeup on.
I see the vulnerable parts ofpeople and all of the
(20:52):
discolorations and all of thethings right, all of the things
everyone has.
But I think you often see thetransformation of the opposite.
So you have the power to makepeople feel really good about
themselves and also tounderstand that that's not
reality.
Yeah, right, so can you shareyour take on that and how it can
(21:15):
be a false illusion of like,when we see people we want to
have no pores.
We want to have no wrinkleslike the people that we see, but
in actuality, those people havewrinkles and pores.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, um, I would say that everybody has lines,
everybody has pores.
Are there ways that we canminimize these things absolutely
?
Can I do that with makeup?
Absolutely?
Is that what you're going tolook like without all this
makeup on or without allprocedures or whatever
everyone's doing?
(21:47):
You know, it's just life andwith time and age comes all
these things.
So I guess my biggest advice islike don't be so hard on
yourself.
Especially when I'm done doinga client, I hand them the mirror
and I'm like, hey, how do youlike your makeup?
And when they put the mirrorthis close to their face, like
well, hold on, no one's going tocome up to you and be like oh,
(22:08):
I like your makeup and you know,look at you that close and
personal, like just hold it at agood distance.
Look at yourself and nine out often times they like it so much
better, as opposed to lookingthis close, because you're
looking at all the lines andeverything on your face.
No one sees that, and I thinkthat's why we can look at
someone's a celebrity'sInstagram post or on a runway
(22:28):
and whatever we're not also notlooking at them this close up
either.
So try to not be so hard onyourself and look at yourself.
Take a step back.
Look at yourself and see howpeople would see you, and not so
close up and be so hard onyourself.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, I would say I love that and realizing that
everyone is struggling withsomething, it's so easy for me
to see that.
What I love about what you doand being a makeup artist is
that often I'll have someonewith really bad acne or
dyschromia, like discolorationto their skin or red broken
(23:05):
blood vessels or some sort of anirregular pigmentation to their
skin or red broken bloodvessels or some sort of an
irregular pigmentation to theirskin.
So while they are in theprocess of evening out their
skin tone through medicalprocedures, a good makeup artist
who can teach you how toproperly apply makeup can be
supportive during thattransformation or that
transition role yeah, for sureyeah um, my biggest advice also
(23:26):
to someone like that I I know amakeup artist and I'm wearing a
lot of makeup and I just didyour makeup.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
But if I don't have to wear makeup, I'm not wearing
makeup.
If I need to cover something,it's just to cover something.
So, for example, if I'mbreaking out, I'm not going to
slap a bunch of foundation on myface to cover up my one
breakout.
I'm going to minimally try tohide that as best as I can,
(23:52):
without irritating the rest ofmy face too much, because then
that causes a bigger problem.
So that's my biggest advice isif you're trying to heal your
skin, your skin will treat youlike as good as you treat it.
I think just how your body willtreat you just as good as you
treat it.
I think Just how your body willtreat you just as good as you
treat it.
So if you're going through acneand breakouts, maybe try to be
(24:13):
a little easier on your skin sothat it can heal and then
everything will look great.
So that's my biggest advice istry not to do too much, because
it might harm you in the end.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Absolutely.
Yeah, our skin is one of ourbiggest detox organs, so we need
to give it a break so the porescan actually detox some things
and and open up.
And I know, at the end of theday, like, even though I do what
I do and you do what you do,it's all about empowering
someone to feel like their bestself, like that's what we
ultimately want people to do.
And before we close out out, Ijust want you to cover, since
(24:47):
it's you know, we're into 2025.
Now, like, what do you thinkare maybe the top two or three
hottest trends of 2025?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I would say the clean girl makeup aesthetic is really
in right now.
Um, I do have a lot of clientsthat will come to me for, like,
special occasion makeup andstuff like that.
That's, that's different, um,but I think what I'm seeing,
more so on social media, asidefrom the bridal industry, is
just soft, glam, clean girl andloving the faux freckle um hype
(25:23):
that's going on right now.
What's that?
It's?
I believe I've never used itbecause I have freckles so I
don't need to, but it's.
I think the brand is calledFreck and it's kind of like a
little almost eyeliner penciland you dot it where you want
freckles.
You take your finger and youblend it out and it's adorable.
So I actually think in 2025,the clean girl aesthetic is is
(25:48):
taking over.
In my opinion, there are, um,there's like a tiktok uh filter
where it's like are you lowcontrast or high contrast?
So basically, what you do isyou stand there, you put your
face in this little tiktok likeapp and it'll tell you whether
or not you look better with moremakeup or less makeup.
(26:08):
And that was a trend that kindof took off and a lot of people
started realizing like, hey, Ithink I look better with low
contrast, because they would goout and they would do that after
.
The app would tell them you'rea low contrast person.
They would try it out and lovetheir makeup.
So I say, uh, maybe experiment.
So I think 2025 is also theyear of experimenting.
See what works best for you.
(26:28):
If you're a high contrastperson, go out and, you know, do
that black eyeliner or whateverit is, and if you're low
contrast, keep it with the cleangirl.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Right, yeah.
Yeah, it's about experimentingwhat works best for you, yes,
and not reaching externally forwhat you should be.
It's like what works.
What you should be, it's likewhat works for you.
Let's get attuned to what worksfor us.
That's what we're deciding.
Is the new trend.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, what works best for you.
I think that that's the besttrend that anyone could follow,
because what might look good onsomeone else might not look so
great on me, and that's okay.
But I mean, yeah, just figuringit out, what do you like and
how do you like the way you look, and that's what's most
important.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It really is yeah, so we could show up authentically,
exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Okay.
So I know a lot of people aregoing to want to reach out to
you and have more questions andfollow what you do.
So how do, how does everyonefind you?
Um?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I am on Instagram.
It is at ashleysmua, and ifyou'd like to book an
appointment with me, I have awebsite.
It's linked on my Instagram.
My number is also there Ifyou'd like to book via.
I take bookings via email text,call Instagram, whatever online
(27:42):
you name it.
So yeah, please reach out to methrough Instagram.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Great, and we'll have all of that contact information
in the show notes.
Great, thank you.
She'll take bookings but shewill not take dates, that's true
.
Bye everyone, bye, thanks,ashley.
Thank you for joining us onListen to your Skin by Moon and
Skin.
It's an honor to be part ofyour skincare journey and if you
love this episode, make sure tosubscribe.
Leave us a glowing review andshare it with someone who's
(28:07):
passionate about their skincarejourney, and please connect with
us on social to ask yourquestions, which will drive
future educational episodes.
Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the
podcast where science meetsnature to celebrate the story of
your skin.
Your skin is a living canvas,ever evolving, deeply personal
and uniquely yours.
Each week, we'll dive into thescience of healthy skin, share
empowering stories and uncovertransformative self-care rituals
.
We're here to help you embraceevery phase of your journey with
(00:22):
confidence and care.
Hi everyone, Welcome to thisweek's episode of Listen to your
Skin by Moon and Skin.
I'm your host, Dr Jen Haley,and on this week's episode I
have Ashley.
Hello, she glammed me up today.
All of you who know me knowthat I am a tomboy.
I run out the door with alittle bit of tinted sunscreen,
so I'm looking quite glammedtoday, thanks to Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
She looks beautiful.
If you guys are watching theclip, just know she looks
amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank you, Ashley.
So in your job, you often makepeople look and feel better than
they might feel on their own.
We want to dive into that andwhat that means to most people,
but before we get started, Iwant to understand from your
perspective as a makeup artist,something that I know nothing
about and I get a lot ofquestions on.
What can people do regardingtheir skincare in order to make
(01:10):
their makeup preparation work alittle bit better?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I would say the most important thing is exfoliation
because, as we know, throughoutthe day our face tends to just
build up oil and all thesethings.
So when a client comes to me,the first thing I ask them is
have you exfoliated today?
When was the last time youwashed your face?
That's always the firstquestion.
And if they've been runningaround, you know running errands
(01:36):
, or they've been out of thehouse for a while and I could
tell that you know there's justthe day is sitting on their face
.
Basically the day is sitting ontheir face.
Basically, um, the first thing Iwill do is take an exfoliating
pad and wipe all of that off,because your makeup's not going
to look as good or last as longwith all of these pre-existing
oils and on your face.
So I think that's the mostimportant thing, um, moisturize,
(01:57):
and I wouldn't say I wouldactually ask my clients to not
come to me with their skincarebecause some products don't work
well with certain skincareproducts.
So I'd rather you comeexfoliated, tell me what your
skin type is like and I'll dothe rest for you.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Okay, this is so good to know.
And now I understand why youasked me if you could take my
stuff off before we started andI was like no, don't take my
tinted sunscreen off.
Okay, so this morning Icleansed, I applied my vitamin C
product, then I applied anenzyme exfoliant and then my
tinted sunscreen.
So do you think my makeup wouldhave sat better if I did not,
(02:37):
if I allowed you to take it alloff beforehand?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, um, it looks great while I'm looking at you.
It does look great, Everyonedoes Um if, during the process,
I noticed certain things weren'tsitting right or starting to
get splotchy, I would have beenlike, hey, jen, I think we
should take that off, and Iwould have probably asked you
again if we could put a makeupwipe to your face.
It kind of just depends,because maybe what you put on
(03:03):
under your skin did work wellwith my products, which it looks
like it did.
So I mean, I kind of just keptgoing with it, but had I noticed
it didn't, we would have had tohave that conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, oh, I love this so much.
This is great because, I mean,I've been a board certified
dermatologist for over 20 yearsand I get asked so many
questions about makeup and Ijust don't even know how to
answer them.
And what you're saying aboutexfoliating makes complete sense
from a physiologicalperspective, because we have
these dead keratinocytes, likewe have the dead skin cells on
our skin, and the makeup is notgoing to apply evenly if those
(03:32):
aren't exfoliated.
So I mean, I always wonderwhere we draw the line between
too much exfoliation and notenough exfoliation.
And it's really when somebodystarts to get irritated.
Is that what you see?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think so too yeah, and I don't, I don't over
exfoliate, I don't do anythingcrazy, I just they're like tiny
little exfoliating pads and Ihand them to my client and I'm
like just, you know, wipe yourface.
It's, it's very, it's verysurface level.
It's not anything too deep orpenetrating, um, but it does.
It works wonders for me.
I have seen my clients come inand I forget to use it on them
(04:05):
and then I'll do their makeupagain and I will use the
exfoliating pad and I'm likenight and day between the two of
how their makeup looked inphotos or throughout the day.
And they'll tell me too.
I love that exfoliating pad yougave me.
It made such a big difference.
So exfoliation, it's like thenumber one thing.
I always tell my clients pleaseexfoliate before you come see
me, if you can.
If not, I'll take care of you asyou have, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
As you have.
So, okay, this this is a commonquestion regarding exfoliation,
because people often don'texfoliate enough to your point,
and then some people overdo itas well.
So if you're at home and you'relistening and you're wondering,
like, how much is enoughexfoliation, it's going to
change depending on the season,your menstrual cycle, where you
live.
Like our body changes.
(04:49):
It's a moving target and itchanges all the time.
So if your skin is burning orpeeling or red, you're
exfoliating too much, and if itlooks dry and dull and your
makeup is not staying, thenyou're not exfoliating it enough
, and what works one week mightnot work the next week.
So listen to your skin by Moonand Skin.
(05:10):
Okay, so what are the key stepsthat everybody should take
before applying makeup?
Like, are there certainingredients you want people to
use on their skin before makeup,certain ingredients you want
people to avoid before makeup,besides just making sure they're
exfoliated?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
You know, whatever works for you.
I always say like don't fixsomething if it's not broken.
So if someone comes and asks mefor advice, I will recommend
them products based off of whatI know from what they're telling
me about their skin.
But I don't really try toadvise someone to do something
when I don't really know.
You know what they're using athome or what their skin is like,
(05:48):
unless they're sitting in mychair, which I only see them for
an hour or so.
But I'm able to give goodadvice.
I just try to tailor it to theperson and what they're asking
me.
But if no one's really askingme, I try to just stay out of
that conversation.
Um, because I'm not trying tobe the reason.
Someone like breaks out orhates a product or whatever it
is.
So right, that's kind of my takeon that.
(06:10):
Um, but yeah, do you um?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
do you have recommendations for specific
makeup lines that you think arecleaner or that are less likely
to cause breakouts and cloggingof pores?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
100 there%, there are so many and especially if
someone were to come to me andtell me I have sensitive skin.
I have three lines that I willgravitate towards the most and
one especially.
I don't know that I want tolike, say names or but one
especially.
I've had four different clientstell me that they're actually
allergic to not the clean uh,clear skin like brands, but a
(06:46):
very well-known in Sephora brand.
There's a specific product inthere that four of my clients
are allergic to and I took thatcompletely out of my kit, like
everything in that in that line.
Um, just because some peopledon't know, these, four of my
clients do know the otherhundred hundred of them might
not know.
Um, but yeah, definitely, ifsomeone comes to me the.
(07:07):
My second question after haveyou exfoliated, do you have
sensitive skin?
And if the answer is yes, Iknow exactly what products I'm
reaching for.
You can name them.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I can name them.
Yeah, we want to give peoplesome usable information.
I love Rare Beauty Rare.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Beauty is such a clean brand.
What about Ilia?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I've been using Ilia.
Say Beauty I think brand, umwhat other?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
brands.
What about ilia?
I've been using ilia.
Say beauty.
I think they don't really saysay yeah, s-a-i-e.
I don't know if they marketthemselves to be like a clean
makeup brand, but I absolutelylove their products.
None of my clients have had anyish like.
If anything, they'll come backand be like what was that that
you used on my face?
And it's always.
It's always say or rare beauty.
Is that what you used on metoday?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I did use a say Yep, I like it, yeah, okay, okay.
So that's I mean the one.
The one thing I want to mentionabout sensitive skin or
somebody who develops anallergic contact dermatitis to a
product.
I often will see a problem withthis before it can't be my
makeup, and what happens withcontact dermatitis is the first
time.
Even if we come into contactwith poison ivy, which is like
(08:10):
the gold standard of what acontact dermatitis looks like is
, you won't have a reaction toit, and then, the more we come
into contact with an ingredient,there are certain types of
ingredients like acrylates,which can be found in nails or
glue, or probably like the fakeeyelash glue.
Yeah, the adhesive yeah, theadhesive, thank you.
The acrylates are a commonissue.
(08:33):
We even see them in AppleWatches and all sorts of
different things.
But with preservatives inmakeup which we want
preservatives so that they don'tgo bad and have mold on them
and all sorts of other problemswe can develop allergies to them
over years.
So you can use something for 10years and not have any problems
and then year number 11, youcan develop an allergy to it.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So that's why it's important to realize that your
skin isn't static.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It's a dynamic living organism that basically can
develop allergies to things.
So it's good to be aware ofwhat's out there.
So you mentioned sensitive skin, but what about if someone has
oily or dry skin?
What would they do differentlywith their makeup application?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I try to take care of that with the type of primers
that I use.
So if someone tells me thatthey're oily, I love the milk
hydro grip primer, I'll normallyreach for that.
And powders I know people tryto stay away from them because
they can settle into fine lines.
But if you're greasy Irecommend maybe just putting on
a little more powder during thatstep of the application.
(09:35):
Those are like my two mainthings, and most of the times
clients will come back to me whogrease after an hour and say
like hey, my makeup was on for16 hours and I didn't even have
to blot and it was because ofthose two things.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Okay, so I'm going to keep coming back to me because
I'm I don't wear this muchmakeup normally and I'm
fascinated by what you do.
So because I'm more oily in theT zone and drier on the
periphery is, did you put themilk primer on the periphery and
more powder centrally?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So because you've already had preexisting the
tinted sunscreen.
I didn't know how that wasgoing to react with the primer,
so I use the more powder optionand I did.
I used a little more on theT-zone, but also I tried to not
use too much underneath the eyesbecause we don't want that
settling into fine lines.
So I was very careful with mypowder placement when it came to
(10:23):
you to try to make sure thisarea doesn't grease.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Are you saying I have a lot of fine lines in that
area?
No, no, no, we all do.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I do, oh my gosh Even and you know, a question that
people ask me often is when I dostart to get these lines.
After you know an hour or so ofmy makeup sitting on my face,
what do I do?
Because it's just normal thatthese lines are going, the
makeup's gonna settle in and weall have lines.
My biggest tip is to never,ever, take a brush, put more
(10:51):
product in it on it and put thaton your face, because that's
only going to penetrate deeperinto those lines and make them
look more visible.
I would take a brush withabsolutely nothing on it and
kind of just wiggle it back andforth and what that's going to
do is move the powder that'salready there, that's settling
into those lines and kind ofmake everything look a little
(11:11):
more cohesive in that area.
So I do that every hour or soyeah, I like that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I mean it makes sense because you know we're making
faces and micro expressions andas we do that, the powder's
falling into the creases, whichis natural and normal, and we
want that right yeah and okay.
So as opposed to applying morepowder and having more
opportunity for those to fallinto the creases, we're just
blending together what's thereas a touch-up through the day
exactly okay, and then I noticedyou applied setting spray.
(11:41):
What is setting spray and whatdoes that do?
And does do people use thatevery day or a special occasion
kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
um, I would every day or a special occasion kind of
thing.
I would say more of a specialoccasion type of thing.
You can use it every day if younotice that your makeup does
tend to not last as long.
But I love setting spray andI'm going to shout out one size
until dawn setting spray, that'swhat I used on you.
It's basically a hairspray foryour face and you know, you had
that little reaction whereyou're like oh my gosh, I wasn't
(12:08):
expecting that.
Um, I think it's so importantbecause it just takes it to the
next level.
When I finish doing someone'smakeup, I want to make sure that
they're happy with it the sameway they are sitting in my chair
in that exact moment throughoutthe rest of the day, and that
the setting sprays is reallywhat you know goes a long way.
I have had clients leave andI'll text them and I'll be like
(12:30):
I forgot to spray you and ifthey're still in the area,
they'll come right back.
I'll spray them really quicklyand then they'll go about their
date or they're like thank youso much for telling me like I'll
spray at home.
I think it's so important.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So love a setting spray so it just sorts of holds
it.
It holds it in place.
What if I went and I if I goand sweat?
It's not going to quite work,or it will endure a little bit,
but not a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So this specific setting spray went viral on
tiktok because there was a girlwho I forget if she jumped in a
pool or like was in labor orwhatever it was and her face did
not move.
And that is what made thatspecific setting spray take off.
Because I think actually it wasboth things it was one girl
(13:14):
jumping into a pool and anothergirl was like let's see how this
works, I'm about to have a babyand their faces looked
incredible.
So I guess it just depends.
I've never tried it out.
I have it on my face right now.
I could go home and I don'tknow, maybe I'll get back to you
on that one.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I may jump in a pool, but I'm not gonna go through
labor with this.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah right, I've already been there, that's
enough that's great.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, that's great.
Yeah, I really love that.
Um okay.
So let's jump into some of thebiggest mistakes that you see
people make.
I'm sure I've done all of thembiggest mistakes, as in prior to
makeup application or just ingeneral, anything like that you
notice that people do tonegatively affect their makeup,
(13:58):
maybe applying the wrongproducts, applying it
incorrectly yeah to, like, maybeoffset their, their greatest
asset?
um, using things in combinationthat shouldn't be used in
combination with.
I mean, I'm just making thingsup, so I was actually going to
touch on that is.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Some people will say certain products don't work well
together, and that's becausethose products probably don't
work well together because ofwhat they're made of.
So you have to look at whateach product.
Is it like a water-basedproduct?
Is it an oil-based product?
Is it a silicone-based product?
Let's say you have awater-based foundation with a
silicone based primer.
(14:34):
Those two might not or sorry,they might work better as if
opposed if it were an oil-basedprimer and then a water-based
foundation.
So not many people.
I'm a makeup artist so I haveto do this because I need to
know what works best in my kiton a day-to-day.
Do I want my clients going andresearching you know what
(14:58):
exactly is in their products?
You don't have to.
But if you notice it's notworking, then I would say try to
figure out why.
And is it because of whatingredients are in your
foundation versus your primer,versus your powder?
Are they just not working welltogether?
And that's kind of how youfigure that out.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Okay, so I don't know what a primer versus a
foundation versus a powder is.
As you know, when I walked inhere today, I wear a tinted
sunscreen and then maybe someblush.
So what are these differentsteps that people could be doing
at home?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
so I always say we can start prior to applying any
makeup on your face.
I always say, if you're at homeabout to do your makeup, let's
wash your face, exfoliate,moisturize.
If you're oily, or let's sayyou're not even oily and you
would just rather look a littlebit more dewy a primer is where
(15:49):
you can kind of fix, you know,make yourself look the way you
want to look.
If you want to look more mattetowards the end, we'll use a
mattifying primer.
If you want to look more dewytowards the end, we'll use a
dewy primer.
And this is all before we putany foundation or makeup on our
face.
So that's primer is right beforefoundation, and then I would go
(16:10):
in with a layer of foundation.
So you kind of have to makesure those two things will work
well together, because they'rethe first products you're
putting on your face and thenafter that, uh, concealer.
I mean I don't really see adifference of which kind of
concealer you use.
I think the main three thingspeople should focus on if they
don't like the way their skinlooks are primer, foundation and
(16:32):
powder.
Do the three that you're usingwork well together and if you
feel like they're not, theyprobably aren't and to take care
of that first okay, that makesgood sense, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So, besides that, what are other mistakes that you
see?
People like just say we'resitting at the mall or we're
walking in a shopping center.
I mean, I, I notice thingsabout people because of what I
do for a living, like I'llnotice birthmarks or funny moles
or things that look like a skincancer, um all sorts of things,
because there's over 3 000diagnoses in dermatology.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So I'm I know you're asking me what do I?
Yeah, what do you notice?
What do?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
you notice, like mistakes that people do wrong,
you know, or maybe trends thathave gone bad.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Trends that have gone bad definitely, I would say,
maybe over contouring.
So what is contouring?
Contouring is when you take abronzer, a darker shade, and you
kind of place it in the areasthat you want to enhance your
cheekbones, your forehead, tomake it a little shorter yep,
right here on your neck, likeyour chin.
But it can be taken a littleoverboard.
(17:33):
I hate when I see like thesharpest line and it's orange,
and then you know the rest ofsomeone's face is like a your
skin's, not orange, it's either,you know, like fair, medium tan
, whatever it is.
I don't like seeing that harshline, that discrepancy between
the the bronzer or the contouror even the blush.
(17:54):
I think it's very important tokind of you can put these things
on your face in the areas thatyou want them and then after
that, let's, let's marry themthey're dating and then let's,
let's marry the products.
Together is my type of thing.
So I guess that's what Inoticed is when products on
someone's face aren't married.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I would say I like that.
That's a good term.
Yeah, we definitely want to getthings married.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
OK, yeah, that's interesting.
And as you're talking, I'mthinking when we see ourselves
in the mirror, we see ourselvestwo-dimensionally.
So we might be like, and itlooks good two-dimensionally,
but in real live action thosesort of very contrasting colors
and shades don't look, could betoo harsh.
Yeah, like in a, an actionableway.
(18:39):
It just doesn't look realistic.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So that's that's great, okay.
Another thing I would say too,as far as like mistakes go when
someone's wanting to do theirown makeup for an event or to go
out and they'll come to me likewell, I need you to do my
makeup because it doesn't lookhow it looks when you do it,
what do you do?
How do you get it to look thatway?
Because when I put it on makeup, it doesn't look like it's glam
(19:04):
or it doesn't really show up inphotos.
And my biggest advice is you'reprobably not using enough
product, especially like it'sglam or it doesn't really show
up in photos.
And my biggest advice is you'reprobably not using enough
product, especially if it's forthat special occasion.
Uh, pictures tend to washthings out.
So if you're, I see people, youknow I'm like well, how much
foundation do you use?
Not just.
And they'll pump once.
And I'm like, okay, so let's gothrough what I'm doing for you
(19:24):
and I'll start pumping.
And I'm like one, two, three,five, and I just see my client's
eyes like expanding and I'mlike that's how much it takes
for you to look how you lookwhen you leave my chair.
So, just so they kind of get anidea If you're not liking the
way it looks in photos andspecial occasions.
You probably just need a littlemore.
I would play around with it.
I wouldn't just do it an hourbefore your event and leave the
(19:44):
house, maybe like experiment.
But definitely experiment withmore product, I would say.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, that's a really good point, because I feel like
I could put what I consider alot of makeup on, and then I get
photos and it doesn't look likeI have any makeup on, because
it's it does look washed out.
And even today I'm like, okay,I think we're done and you're
like, no, we're not done.
I'm like okay, you're the experthere, you're the expert, okay.
So, um, you know there'ssomething else.
So my sister is a makeup artistin Milan.
(20:11):
She works on the runways andit's very extravagant and, you
know, it's very artistic.
It's not so much real life likewhat you're dealing with, and
she'll often send me photos ofwhat people look like without
makeup.
So there's this false illusionthat I think we live in in the
actual world, where we seerunway models or people on the
(20:32):
covers of magazines or you knowall social media and then
reality TV for sure, wherepeople look so perfect and we
think that people don't have anypores or any wrinkles or
anything like that.
And, as a dermatologist, I seeeveryone with no clothes on,
with no makeup on.
I see the vulnerable parts ofpeople and all of the
(20:52):
discolorations and all of thethings right, all of the things
everyone has.
But I think you often see thetransformation of the opposite.
So you have the power to makepeople feel really good about
themselves and also tounderstand that that's not
reality.
Yeah, right, so can you shareyour take on that and how it can
(21:15):
be a false illusion of like,when we see people we want to
have no pores.
We want to have no wrinkleslike the people that we see, but
in actuality, those people havewrinkles and pores.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, um, I would say that everybody has lines,
everybody has pores.
Are there ways that we canminimize these things absolutely
?
Can I do that with makeup?
Absolutely?
Is that what you're going tolook like without all this
makeup on or without allprocedures or whatever
everyone's doing?
(21:47):
You know, it's just life andwith time and age comes all
these things.
So I guess my biggest advice islike don't be so hard on
yourself.
Especially when I'm done doinga client, I hand them the mirror
and I'm like, hey, how do youlike your makeup?
And when they put the mirrorthis close to their face, like
well, hold on, no one's going tocome up to you and be like oh,
(22:08):
I like your makeup and you know,look at you that close and
personal, like just hold it at agood distance.
Look at yourself and nine out often times they like it so much
better, as opposed to lookingthis close, because you're
looking at all the lines andeverything on your face.
No one sees that, and I thinkthat's why we can look at
someone's a celebrity'sInstagram post or on a runway
(22:28):
and whatever we're not also notlooking at them this close up
either.
So try to not be so hard onyourself and look at yourself.
Take a step back.
Look at yourself and see howpeople would see you, and not so
close up and be so hard onyourself.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, I would say I love that and realizing that
everyone is struggling withsomething, it's so easy for me
to see that.
What I love about what you doand being a makeup artist is
that often I'll have someonewith really bad acne or
dyschromia, like discolorationto their skin or red broken
(23:05):
blood vessels or some sort of anirregular pigmentation to their
skin or red broken bloodvessels or some sort of an
irregular pigmentation to theirskin.
So while they are in theprocess of evening out their
skin tone through medicalprocedures, a good makeup artist
who can teach you how toproperly apply makeup can be
supportive during thattransformation or that
transition role yeah, for sureyeah um, my biggest advice also
(23:26):
to someone like that I I know amakeup artist and I'm wearing a
lot of makeup and I just didyour makeup.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
But if I don't have to wear makeup, I'm not wearing
makeup.
If I need to cover something,it's just to cover something.
So, for example, if I'mbreaking out, I'm not going to
slap a bunch of foundation on myface to cover up my one
breakout.
I'm going to minimally try tohide that as best as I can,
(23:52):
without irritating the rest ofmy face too much, because then
that causes a bigger problem.
So that's my biggest advice isif you're trying to heal your
skin, your skin will treat youlike as good as you treat it.
I think just how your body willtreat you just as good as you
treat it.
I think Just how your body willtreat you just as good as you
treat it.
So if you're going through acneand breakouts, maybe try to be
(24:13):
a little easier on your skin sothat it can heal and then
everything will look great.
So that's my biggest advice istry not to do too much, because
it might harm you in the end.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Absolutely.
Yeah, our skin is one of ourbiggest detox organs, so we need
to give it a break so the porescan actually detox some things
and and open up.
And I know, at the end of theday, like, even though I do what
I do and you do what you do,it's all about empowering
someone to feel like their bestself, like that's what we
ultimately want people to do.
And before we close out out, Ijust want you to cover, since
(24:47):
it's you know, we're into 2025.
Now, like, what do you thinkare maybe the top two or three
hottest trends of 2025?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I would say the clean girl makeup aesthetic is really
in right now.
Um, I do have a lot of clientsthat will come to me for, like,
special occasion makeup andstuff like that.
That's, that's different, um,but I think what I'm seeing,
more so on social media, asidefrom the bridal industry, is
just soft, glam, clean girl andloving the faux freckle um hype
(25:23):
that's going on right now.
What's that?
It's?
I believe I've never used itbecause I have freckles so I
don't need to, but it's.
I think the brand is calledFreck and it's kind of like a
little almost eyeliner penciland you dot it where you want
freckles.
You take your finger and youblend it out and it's adorable.
So I actually think in 2025,the clean girl aesthetic is is
(25:48):
taking over.
In my opinion, there are, um,there's like a tiktok uh filter
where it's like are you lowcontrast or high contrast?
So basically, what you do isyou stand there, you put your
face in this little tiktok likeapp and it'll tell you whether
or not you look better with moremakeup or less makeup.
(26:08):
And that was a trend that kindof took off and a lot of people
started realizing like, hey, Ithink I look better with low
contrast, because they would goout and they would do that after
.
The app would tell them you'rea low contrast person.
They would try it out and lovetheir makeup.
So I say, uh, maybe experiment.
So I think 2025 is also theyear of experimenting.
See what works best for you.
(26:28):
If you're a high contrastperson, go out and, you know, do
that black eyeliner or whateverit is, and if you're low
contrast, keep it with the cleangirl.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Right, yeah.
Yeah, it's about experimentingwhat works best for you, yes,
and not reaching externally forwhat you should be.
It's like what works.
What you should be, it's likewhat works for you.
Let's get attuned to what worksfor us.
That's what we're deciding.
Is the new trend.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, what works best for you.
I think that that's the besttrend that anyone could follow,
because what might look good onsomeone else might not look so
great on me, and that's okay.
But I mean, yeah, just figuringit out, what do you like and
how do you like the way you look, and that's what's most
important.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It really is yeah, so we could show up authentically,
exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Okay.
So I know a lot of people aregoing to want to reach out to
you and have more questions andfollow what you do.
So how do, how does everyonefind you?
Um?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I am on Instagram.
It is at ashleysmua, and ifyou'd like to book an
appointment with me, I have awebsite.
It's linked on my Instagram.
My number is also there Ifyou'd like to book via.
I take bookings via email text,call Instagram, whatever online
(27:42):
you name it.
So yeah, please reach out to methrough Instagram.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Great, and we'll have all of that contact information
in the show notes.
Great, thank you.
She'll take bookings but shewill not take dates, that's true
.
Bye everyone, bye, thanks,ashley.
Thank you for joining us onListen to your Skin by Moon and
Skin.
It's an honor to be part ofyour skincare journey and if you
love this episode, make sure tosubscribe.
Leave us a glowing review andshare it with someone who's
(28:07):
passionate about their skincarejourney, and please connect with
us on social to ask yourquestions, which will drive
future educational episodes.
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