EP 11 | Plants Over Preservatives? Here’s What the Science Says

Still using whatever looks good at Marshalls? You’re not alone, and it’s never too late to reset your skincare routine.

In this episode, we break down what really happens to your skin during menopause and what you can do about it. From fast collagen loss to dry, tired-looking skin, we explain why it’s happening and how to turn things around.

You’ll learn about gentle, effective ingredients (like retinol that doesn’t irritate and a brightener made from mushrooms), plus why when you apply products matters just as much as what you use.

Skincare doesn’t have to be complicated. Tune in and take the first step toward healthier, glowier skin.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the
podcast where science meetsnature to celebrate the story of
your skin.
Your skin is a living canvas,ever evolving, deeply personal
and uniquely yours.
Each week, we'll dive into thescience of healthy skin, share
empowering stories and uncovertransformative self-care rituals
.
We're here to help you embraceevery phase of your journey with

(00:22):
confidence and care.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Okay, jen, we are here today because I need to
come clean with my following.
Everyone keeps asking me noteveryone, but a significant
number of people have asked meabout my skincare routine, and I
have to.
I am chuckling because I've hadliterally no skincare routine,
I mean, unless you count tallow,which, luckily, I met you and

(00:46):
you were able to educate me onwhy I didn't want to use that on
my skin and, you know, startedthinking I should probably you
know, I'm over 50 now I shouldprobably have a routine.
The only thing I've doneconsistently is glycolic acid,
you know, surface level.
That's the only thing I'veconsistently done since I was 30

(01:08):
.
Cause I did see a dermatologistthis was before my son was born,
you know and he helped medevelop a routine and I was kind
of using that, but then I justthat was the only thing that
stuck.
And so luckily we met and I wasusing the tallow and it was
causing quite a bit of likelittle bumps.
You know, milia, here I noticedwhen I stopped using it those

(01:28):
kind of went down a little bit.
So that was, you know, grateful.
But I really was hoping to comeup with something and luckily
you started working with Moonand Skin and formulating this
great product.
So I've been like anxiouslyawaiting so that I can, like,
have a grown up you knowskincare routine.
I feel so like mature now andlike ladylike to have that.

(01:50):
So, yeah, I was hoping we couldtalk a lot, a lot about it
actually, cause I don't know allthese things.
I just am like, oh, whatever,put whatever on my skin.
It's all more about, like, whatI eat.
I think that's more importantand I think you've helped
educate me in showing me, like,well, what you eat.
Yes, but if you add some stuffto the outside, you can really

(02:11):
you know, turbocharge, I suppose, or I don't know amp it up.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Definitely Okay.
You brought up so many goodpoints so well when we first met
.
It's because obviously I valuedall the work that you did from
an inside-out approach and I'veseen so many people over the
years that have just looked attopical skin care only and they
haven't addressed what they weredoing in their lifestyle and
you have to really look at theskin as an inside-out organ.

(02:37):
So I think you got away with somuch for so long and not doing
skin care because you live sucha beautiful life where you have
really good food in your dietand you do the essential things
that are necessary.
But I also think it's such alow hanging fruit not to do
skincare.
So I just like I happened tomeet you by listening to you on
one of our friends podcast.

(02:59):
Angela Foster and I reached outto you because I'm like, oh, the
world is too valuable to notconnect with people who you're
supposed to connect with.
I think.
Also serendipitously, I met theother founders at Moon and Skin
and we aligned in, like the waywe look at nature and looking at
the science and the remediesthat nature provide us, and how

(03:21):
can we best work in sync and inharmony with that in our own
skin, in our own lives, whetherit's educating people on how to
take care of themselves from theinside out or using the power
of nature and the ingredientsthat I was lucky enough to work
with some brilliant formulatorsand coming up with these
products.
You know I'd say I want thisingredient and this ingredient

(03:43):
because I know the sciencebehind it, and they'd say, oh
well, you know, these plantscontain these ingredients that
would really balance the harmfuleffects of retinol.
You know, let's add someantioxidants or some
anti-inflammatory ingredientsthat come from nature, whether
it's centella asiatica or greentea or jojoba, all sorts of

(04:04):
things that are in theformulation.
And they also saw.
They saw things similar to meas far as the fact that, as a
woman, our skin changes everyday throughout our cycle.
What we use in the morning isgoing to be different from what
we use in the evening.
And then the seasons of life, sowhen you're 30, yeah, you can

(04:26):
get away with just doingglycolic acid, and even if you
have a polyphenol rich diet, youcan get away with not even
using sunscreen, because yoursun is your skin is protected
from the inside out, but after35 are epigenetics.
The choices we make make abigger difference.
So by incorporating skincare,you're just going to nourish
your skin from the outside in inaddition to the inside out.

(04:48):
I don't want people to forgetabout both of those Like both of
those are essential componentsand I've seen so many people
over the years reach forprocedures and reach for answers
from the dermatologist withoutdoing the stuff at home.
It's like going to the dentistand getting your teeth cleaned
and then not brushing your teethfor a whole year.
It just doesn't make sense, andthat's how I look at skincare.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, and I love what you said Cause, like that's
like I'm about.
I'm going to take somesupplements, but I like to use,
you know, vegetables and cause.
I think, well, they're going tohave all the I don't know, like
everything's going to worksynergistically together somehow
when you're getting a, what doyou say, like a vitamin from a
plant, versus just getting itfrom a supplement.

(05:30):
There's something about that.
So I love that.
That's what's in here.
I think that's really, reallykey.
Okay, so I have so manyquestions.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Can I just?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
talk about the beef tallow really.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,so you brought up the beef
tallow, and it's not that I hatebeef tallow.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
There are some products that have beef tallow
and I think they do a fairlygood job using the concepts of
beef tallow.
But the issue with beef tallowalone in itself is that it's
occlusive, so it blocks, let'sjust say, the pores, it holds in
your moisture.
It doesn't allow moisture oranything to really penetrate.
And then, like the vitamin Aand the other, like nutrients

(06:06):
that are in beef tallow, they'renot formulated in a way that's
going to pass through the skin.
So our skin is meant to protectus from the outside world, so
it's not actually very good atallowing things to get absorbed.
So you have to have someone whoknows how to formulate and
while I'm a dermatologist and Iknow the ingredients and the
science behind ingredients, Idon't know how to formulate.
I can say I want X ingredientand Y ingredient, but you need a

(06:29):
good cosmetic chemist thatunderstands how to put those
together in a way that's goingto deliver it to where it needs
to be in the skin and usecertain technology, like
liposomal technology, like wehave in the retinol, so that the
retinol can actually get towhere it needs to be in the skin
to do the job to renew and turnover the skin cells without
irritating the skin.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Okay, that makes sense to me.
I mean, it's just sointeresting.
It's like you know, I've beenjust going from the inside out
and now finally kind of justadding that outside in.
Maybe if I had done thisearlier wouldn't you know.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
anyway, but it's never too late, I know right,
it's like never too late tostart.
I've had people.
I mean, we know your biologicalage is what?
36?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
I mean, and your skin age, I mean the first thing
people are going to say is shedoesn't look 36.
And you're right, I don't.
So you know, but I don't thinkI look 56, you know, but I think
it's energy.

(07:30):
Like we all have energy that wewalk around.
The wisdom energy makes us lookolder, no matter what we look,
two-dimensionally, you know, andI've seen your two-dimensional
photos and they're pretty hot,so so, okay, well, so let's talk
about, like skin care forsomebody in menopause, like what
needs to change, like why Imean why?
I mean we've kind of talkedabout why, or maybe we've only
touched on why it needs tochange, but what does it need to
change to?
Like why?
Like I mean, I've clearly I'venoticed my skin has gotten drier
for sure, like that's, you know, a problem for me, but because

(07:51):
it's definitely always beenpretty oily my whole life and it
used to be pretty bumpy, butthe glycolic acid is what keeps
it from kind of being so bumpy,which is why I've used it.
But yeah, that's the only like.
What else do I need to bethinking about?
Sure.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, so during menopause, we'll talk about
these products in a second.
I'll address the menopause,because these products are a
core program.
So we want to build everythingoff of a strong foundation and
then we can move things in andout depending on where we are in
our cycle or the time of yearor what stage of life we're in.

(08:29):
Right, but I formulated theseproducts so that they're a core
foundation.
They're like the core for thecore, for products that anyone
can use, and then we can add ina little extra glycolic acid if
you like it.
My skin doesn't like glycolicacid because, I have very
rosacea prone skin.
But one thing to your point thatholds true for women in

(08:49):
menopause is like as theestrogen declines, so in our
twenties we start losing about1% of our collagen per year and
we don't really notice it untilwe're like perimenopause, we
might notice like a little moresagging, usually around the jaw
and the neck and the eyes.
And then during menopause, whenour collagen really drops, our

(09:10):
estrogen really drops, ourcollagen also drops by like 30%
within the first five yearsafter menopause.
So, losing that estrogen, wedrop our collagen and our
elastic tissue.
And then something called GAGs,which are glycosaminoglycans,
which are kind of the glue thatholds the whole part of our
dermis together and makes itsupple, and that's why we get

(09:31):
really really dry and we getkind of sallow looking and
dehydrated skin.
So obviously estrogen isimportant to maintain.
If we can do that eithertopically or systemically is the
best.
But what we want to reallyfocus on as well is enhancing
cell turnover during that time,because the stem cells at the
bottom of the epidermis they getlazy and they don't turn over

(09:55):
as quickly and the top layer ofskin, it basically sticks on
longer and doesn't exfoliate anddoesn't get stimulated to make
fresh stem cells.
Likewise, as you know, in yourlongevity world we get more
senescent cells build up, we getall of those senescent zombie
cells built up and thefibroblasts and the dermis don't

(10:16):
make as much collagen over time.
So these are addressedinternally through fasting and
all of the other things that youteach your audience, and also
topically.
We have ways to induce thiswith the use of retinols to
boost collagen, with vitamin C,which is a cofactor in collagen
production, with stem cells thatcan enhance our own stem cells

(10:40):
to produce more skin cells, andalso just hydration.
And actually the moisturizercreated by me and the cosmetic
chemists with Moon and Skin.
The moisturizer has low levelsof glycolic acid in it, not
enough to cause irritation, justenough to loosen up the dead
skin cells so that themoisturizer can actually

(11:02):
penetrate.
Because what I see to yourpoint a lot of women, when
they're in menopause orperimenopause, or even in the
winter months when it's dry,what will happen is they're just
slathering on like more andmore moisturizer all the time,
even oil, and it's not gettingto the skin to the point where
it can hydrate the skin becausethe dead skin cells are

(11:22):
insulating the stratum corneumis so thick.
Yeah, it's insulating the skinso much that the moisturizer
can't even penetrate, so we wantto loosen that off without
causing irritation, so we canget the hydration in there.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Okay, that makes sense.
They're like they need to leavethe party and they're not.
So like senescent cells.
It's like it's time to go, guys.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
It's time to go, okay , I love that.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, one other question for you just to follow
up with that.
So if somebody is lucky enoughand smart enough to start
bioidentical hormones, does thathelp maintain, you know, skin
health a little longer?
I mean, I'd imagine, even onbioidentical hormones you're
still going to start seeing somechanges.
Maybe it slows it down, or likehow you know, how do we have

(12:07):
studies on that yet, or there'sso much we don't know because of
the whole women's healthinitiative and like what
actually are people using ashormones?

Speaker 1 (12:16):
like are we using?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
mayor urine or are we using?

Speaker 1 (12:20):
bioidentical estradiol, you know, and there's
not.
I haven't really seen a ton ofstudies on systemic that's not
my area of expertise buttopically.
Topically we do with topicalestriol, which is sort of like a
weak estradiol, but we have umestrogen beta receptors that are
more prominent in the skin thatwe do see if someone starts it

(12:43):
perimenopausal.
So we could be in perimenopausefrom 35 to 50.
I mean for 15 years and gettingchanges at the cellular level
that we're not reallyrecognizing at the clinical
level or even within ourselvesuntil we look at an old photo or
something right.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, I know, trust me, I was looking at photos
before Reagan was born.
I'm like oh my gosh, wow, Iwant that back.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
But topical estrogen can definitely be used before
anybody's in menopause and ithelps with fine lines and
wrinkles.
It actually helps withpigmentation, which we sometimes
thought that it wouldn't,because melasma is associated
with pigmentation, and it helpswith the suppleness.
We haven't seen as muchimprovement with elasticity with
a topical estrogen, but I thinkthere's so much more to be seen

(13:24):
and the risks are really lowlike it's not seen in the blood
yeah, so it's worth adding um.
Yet a good skincare regimen isgoing to support all the
processes that the skin wants todo to repair itself and to
protect itself.
So all the time we're doing twothings.
Number one we're preventing thebreakdown of collagen every day

(13:46):
by protecting our skin from UVradiation and pollution like
basically particulate matter orPMs and environmental toxins
from causing free radical damagein the skin.
And then we're also trying toboost the natural production of
our own collagen, whether it'sthrough collagen peptides,
hyaluronic acid, good hydration,protein.

(14:07):
Like I love vegetables,although I find that when people
don't have sufficient protein,their skin does not look good
because your collagen is made ofprotein.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Lots of pieces.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
And does just eating collagen protein support that
you have to have like all theyou know, all the essential
amino acids, right, Because youcan't just have the collagen
protein is what I'm getting at.
You probably need to be havingsome mix of, you know, whey
protein or like somehow gettingthe balance of those full amino
acids, right you?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
know the answer because we have this
conversation all the time I know.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, I just want to make sure people know, because
you know, I mean, I know thatthere was at one point I was
like, oh, I'm just going to havecollagen protein because I
found I was kind of sensitive towhey protein.
And then you know, the doctor'slike well, you know, that's not
a full, like you're not gettingthe full coverage, so you need
to figure out some other things.
So I'm like, ok, I'll add eggsand meat you know a few other
things to it, but I can't do thewhey protein so yeah, I mean, I

(15:03):
, I am.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
I am protein forward, and I know you are too.
We both experienced, uh, andhave been vegan for a decade or
more and um, we've had our ownexperiences and you know most.
The cool thing about theseproducts is most of the
ingredients are plant derived.
Even the hyaluronic is plant.
The hyaluronic acid is plantderived.
The stem cells are plantderived, so they're um leap

(15:24):
derived, so they're um leapingbunny standards.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
They're cruelty free and leaping bunny standards Okay
, Well, let's talk about this.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
So, like I don't, you know we don't have a cleanser,
it's coming right, yeah, um,it's a kale protein cleanser, so
it's not a soap Is it going tobe green.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
No, it's not, and you can't drink it.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Okay.
So the cool thing about thecleanser and I know we talked
about this because you werenoticing your skin was a little
bit dry.
So the biggest mistake I seewhen people say they have dry
skin, whether it's their body orit's their face, before I throw
a bunch of things at them I askthem like what are you using to
cleanse with?
Because usually our soap is toodrying.

(16:04):
So soaps have a surfactantwhich basically binds with the
oils in our skin and if it's tooharsh it's stripping the oils
from our skin and it's breakingdown our skin barrier.
So this cleanser, this kaleprotein cleanser, it's coconut
derived surfactants, so there'snot coconut oil which can break
out the skin.
It's a coconut derivedsurfactant.

(16:25):
So it's a very mild which canbreak out the skin.
It's a coconut derivedsurfactant.
So it's a very mild, gentlecleanser and I've tested it out
before I approved it, where itcleanses my makeup off and I use
like micellar water afterwardsand an exfoliating cotton round
and I don't have any dirt on it.
So I know it's getting the dirtoff.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, that's really great, because I think you had
said, like cleanse your face andthen, you know, don't put
anything on it, and see, youknow, and my skin just, you know
, tightened, you know.
So it was just so tight, it'slike I have to rush to get the
moisturizer on.
So that's like a good sign,right that your cleanser is a
little too drying, 100%, and I'musing a creamy cleanser, so

(17:02):
that can still happen withcreamy cleansers.
I'm mad, obviously, right.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
It just depends.
I mean, I always say, let mesee the ingredient list.
It's like nutrition, you know,when it has certain claims on it
, I still want to turn it aroundand I see, you know, corn syrup
, or I see artificial color orflavor like natural flavors.
I always want to see theingredient list.
So even if it's a creamycleanser, it doesn't mean that

(17:29):
it doesn't have harsh thingsadded to it or just something
that's not good for your skintype.
But you should not feel tight.
There should be no burning.
There shouldn't be a tautfeeling to the skin after you
cleanse.
It should just feel lighter.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Okay good.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
And the other thing I , just because we're on cleanser
, I know that you've talkedabout cleansing twice at night,
like so to get everything off.
You know, get the makeup offand then you know, rinse and
then cleanse again.
Do you still recommend that too, with even the moon and skin,
or yeah, it just depends.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
So I think you and I are kind of minimalist, like we
don't wear a lot of makeup.
Yeah, so most of the days Ijust wear tinted sunscreen and
eye makeup and then I just usethe cleanser and I use, I
cleanse for two minutes.
I like people to apply thecleanser like brushing your
teeth yeah, exactly likebrushing your teeth.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Flip the timer over.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, so apply the cleanser I can't wait for you to
try it.
Apply the cleanser, rub it inwith maybe a little bit of water
, not so it's dripping.
Um, you know, use whateverdevice you have, or just your
hands, for a full two minutes sothat the ingredients can
penetrate into your skin, butmassage those, massage your
lymphatics and get the productto actually penetrate.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Otherwise, like you're gonna love this.
So I actually and I've beendoing this for years I went, I
think it was like costco orsomewhere, and I got um, like 21
washcloths and I use a newwashcloth every single night
because I was so terrified oflike any bacteria breaking, you
know, and they're just gentle, Idon't.
You know, I'm not likescrubbing or anything like that,

(18:56):
but it was just a nice way tokind of get my makeup off and I
don't know, it was just a nicelittle treat, like I'm like,
yeah, that's what I do.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
so when I, I wash them, you know, every week, and
then you use them, yeah, I lovethat because, well, okay, that's
a great point, because I thinka lot of times people are afraid
to touch their face, likethey're afraid to rub things
around their eyes, but it's sortof a hormetic effect, it's
hormesis.
It's like we're stimulating theface and it's basically
responding by regeneratingcollagen.

(19:23):
If we just leave it alone andlet it hang all day, it's like
sitting on your couch all dayyour muscles will just
disintegrate.
So our skin is meant to have alittle bit of stimulation,
whether it's stimulation of thelymphatics to move things
through more, or stimulation ofthe collagen, without tearing
the elastic fibers to do stuff.
But going back to cleansing, soif you don't really wear a lot
of makeup, one cleanser isenough.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
If you wear a lot of makeup, like I have makeup Like
today I'll have, yeah, I'll washtwice, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
But otherwise, then do an oil-based to get the
makeup off and then use anactive cleanser with active
ingredients.
That's going to benefit yourskin and nourish your skin,
because a good cleanser put onthe skin for two minutes is
going to nourish the skin.
Okay, so the proteins in theredo add some nourishment to the
skin which is what we want.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
I mean, what I'm kind of realizing now is like I mean
, I just never saw it that waybefore, but the skin is an organ
to be taken care of, just likemy heart and my brain, and I'm
doing, you know, now, I'm likeproperly supporting this organ
and these are.
This is one over half of theway to do it.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I suppose it's right just like our hair like we
shampoo our hair, we don'texpect it to just grow from the
inside out and it's dead.
I know exactly.
And our skin's a lot of money,I spent on conditioner.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Okay, okay.
So then let's talk about afterI do that which and I have been
playing around with this.
I love this stem cell C serumbecause the other thing I've
learned from you is that when westart applying products, we go
from thinnest to thickest.
I love that.
I was like duh, like duh.

(20:56):
That makes so much sense.
I've just never thought aboutit like that.
So, but I love this vitamin Cserum.
I'm already cause I've onlybeen using it like a week and a
half maybe, and I've alreadynoticed just like a brightening
to my skin, and I've just I'venever used vitamin c serum, so
I'm very yeah, let's take it outokay so I know I love.

(21:18):
I love the way this opens andcloses because, like, I go to
the gym and so I have to carryit back and forth to the gym,
and so I have to carry it backand forth to the gym, and so it
stays nice.
Wait, you put it on at the gymAfter the shower in the gym.
Okay, yeah, okay.
And that's when you start yourday.
Yeah, cause I'll do the saunaand a shower, and so I do
everything there, not everysingle day, but like four to

(21:39):
five days a week I'm at the gym.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Okay, okay.
So let's talk about this.
So this is a stem cell vitaminC serum.
Okay, there's so many thingsabout this, because I think that
2025 is really important forpeople to embrace the minimalism
and we talk about this all thetime, right?
So minimalism is what's goingto be trending, because we've
gotten way overboard in theother direction.
So more ingredients doing morethings in one product, and we

(22:03):
have the knowledge and thetechnology to do that.
So more ingredients doing morethings in one product, and we
have the knowledge and thetechnology to do that.
So, first of all, it comes inan airless pump.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
That's what that means Okay, well, I just like it
because I can travel with it,look people, and then you can
just really light.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
It's very lightweight , so hold on, let's get a pump.
So it's very lightweight, whichI like because we don't want
anything pilling on the skin.
Yeah, I love the smell of it.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, it's like a grapefruit tangerine.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's weird, it's so, it's very lightweight, so you
apply it.
So basically, I do two to threepumps to my face, my neck and
my chest right after cleansingin the morning, let it soak in
and absorb.
We always want a layer to fullyabsorb before we apply anything
else, and the reason we want todo vitamin C in the morning is
we're working with our circadianclock, so the minute our

(22:49):
photoreceptors in our eyes andwe have photoreceptors in our
skin, which is actually prettycool because if you have the
lights on in your room.
if you have lights on in yourroom and you have skin peeking
out of the covers, you're notgoing to be able to sleep, Even
if you have an eye mask on,because you've got
photoreceptors in your skin.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Oh no, Okay, there goes my whole.
Okay, sorry, that's another.
Arizona air conditioningwindows.
Open story.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Okay, okay, so as soon as our photoreceptors in
our eyes and our skin see thelight, our body switches, all
like the metabolic clocks in ourbody.
We have these circadian clocksand all the enzyme processes are
in like protect me mode.
So, like protect me, protect me,protect me, protect me from UV
radiation, protect me from allthe environmental insults that

(23:37):
we come into contact with,whether it's man-made pollution
or you know the dust that'scoming around with particles in
it.
And vitamin C is a reallypotent antioxidant for the skin,
so this product also hasvitamin E and ferulic acid in it
.
Okay, so ferulic acid isderived from curcumin, which
your audience would like, soit's natural and it boosts the

(23:58):
activity that's turmeric, peopleTurmeric.
Yeah, turmeric, curcumin,ferulic acid, and it helps boost
the activity of vitamin C.
Okay, and it also has its ownantioxidant properties Now with
vitamin C traditionally.
This is why they're not allcreated equal.
You can't just go to whatevergrocery store you want to.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, I was going to say so.
My plan, my previous skincareplan, was I would just go to
Marshall's and like, oh yeah,that looks good, you know, and
I'd grab like that's what I wasdoing, like yeah, that's been my
skincare for, I don't know, adecade.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
That's what most people do though Like that's
typically what most people doand I see people come in with
bags and bags of grocery or likebags and bags of bottles that
have done them no good.
So they might've been $10products, but there's like 50 of
them that have not done themany good.
And that's because vitamin C isvery, very unstable and as soon
as it hits oxygen or light orheat, it turns from like a clear

(24:54):
color you could see the pumpwas clear to sort of like an
orange and then a brown colorbecause it's become oxidized, so
that orange one that I've seenat the grocery store is like
oxidized yeah, not probably toogood for you Probably doesn't
work.
So, yeah, so that's where theformulation matters.
So when you're looking atformulation, you want to get
something that's stable and thatactually can get to where it
needs to be in the skin.
Okay, and you know, as adermatologist, we're not taught

(25:16):
this.
I have to learn this stuff overtime by working with
formulators.
So while I know goodingredients, I don't always know
how to get them to the skin.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
So that's where scientists and formulators we
have to collaborate togetheryeah, and you're not talking
about just rubbing it on theskin.
You're talking about getting itinto those first few layers, or
you know Exactly so that it canprotect your skin.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
If you imagine it's like a force field that's
protecting the skin from all thethings that are even getting
through your sunscreen, becauseeven if you're wearing sunscreen
and a hat, we're still kidding.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
We're going to talk about that in a second.
Yeah, we'll talk about that.
So I mean people.
My skincare routine has beenabominable.
It's embarrassing, so this iswhy I'm coming clean, but it's
okay because our skin turns over.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Every depends on your age, obviously, but, like when
you're really young, your skinturns over every 30 days and as
you get older it could be likemore six to 12 weeks.
So in three months you shouldhave really, really noticed a
lot of changes in your skin.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Well, we'll do updates, okay, so after that,
what am I putting on?
Oh, but I'm not done talkingabout the vitamin C.
Oh, no, we're still on vitaminC.
I'm very excited about thisproduct.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
So it's so exciting.
So there's also stem cells.
There's plant derived, citrusderived stem cells, and you
could smell that.
So they're citrus derived stemcells and you could smell that.
So they're citrus derived stemcells.
And whether or not they'replants, plant stem cells
actually do benefit.
They've been around for a longtime.
They benefit our human skin bysending signals to our own stem
cells to boost the production offresh skin.

(26:39):
So we constantly want toregenerate and renew our skin
and all we're doing with theseproducts is just supporting.
We're like them.
It's almost like miracle growfor our skin.
We're feeding our skin to makefresh skin cells.
So, and then there's alsohyaluronic acid plant-derived
hyaluronic acid in here and aloevera and some other botanicals

(27:00):
that are calming and soothing.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Oh, that's great, and I know that I mean.
A lot of people, I think, knowabout hyaluronic acid.
I can't say that, but now youknow that it what brings in
moisture from the outside tolike sit on the skin or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Is that?
Yeah, so it's complicated.
Hyaluronic acid is complicatedand it is not the hero
ingredient in here, but it is inhere to balance out some of the
acidity of the vitamin C.
But basically, hyaluronic acidif you just put it on your skin
and your skin is dry, it drawsout the moisture from the deep
layers which isn't really goodand that's why, like you want to
look at the weight of thehyaluronic acid and have small

(27:36):
particle and large particle,like large molecular weight and
small molecular weighthyaluronic acid, because you
want to put moisture on yourface first and then kind of seal
it in with a hyaluronic acidbecause it will hold on to water
.
It won't draw it in from theoutside unless the humidity is
over 85%.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Okay, so is that the difference between, like, the
cheap stuff I see at Marshall'sversus, like you know, the very
expensive things I see online?

Speaker 1 (28:02):
I wouldn't go by price Okay, Because with
skincare companies, a lot of theprice that you're paying for is
all the money they're spendingon marketing Okay.
So, like these products arereally high-end, I've worked
with a lot of skincare companiesand I've helped multiple
skincare companies over the last20 years formulate products and
sometimes the price is notcorrelated with the efficacy.

(28:28):
You know, you kind of have toget to a certain point.
If you're spending $10, you'renot going to get something
that's really effective.
Yeah, but like, just becauseit's more expensive doesn't mean
that it's better.
But I want to talk about thevitamin C itself.
So when you look at a bottle,you'll see ascorbic acid.
So vitamin C, ascorbic acid,you know this right.
But the ascorbic acid, whileit's the active form in the skin

(28:51):
, it's also the volatile form,like the unstable form, and
that's why you can have a bottleand it's clear at the beginning
of the month and it's brown atthe end of the month.
And then we tried to do it inairless pumps like these, but we
were still finding there wasn'ta longevity to it.
So now, with the technology,there's two forms of vitamin C
that are active and effectiveand penetrate the skin and turn

(29:13):
into ascorbic acid in the skinto do what we want.
There's sodium ascorbylphosphate, which we have in this
formulation, and there's THDascorbate.
And the reason I chose sodiumascorbyl phosphate is because so
many people experience acnebreakouts.
Even if they're 40 or 30, theystill might get an acne breakout
.
So I have a lot of people overthe years who they either have

(29:34):
sensitive skin, like myself, orthey get random acne at the most
inconvenient times from growthfactors, and vitamin C will make
it worse.
So I want everyone to usevitamin C every day, but I don't
want them to worry aboutgetting an acne breakout, and
that's where the sodium ascorbylphosphate form is really the

(29:54):
best form for anyone who's acneprone.
But people who are acne pronelike me like it's still good for
them.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Okay, okay, very, very cool.
Well, I'm definitely feelingthe brightness that it says on
there, so, but I mean I'll checkin with everybody.
Like I said, I've been using itfor like a week and I'll
probably do a you know check inevery so often.
I'll have to figure out howoften we'll have to discuss that
at another time.
You know if that should beevery two weeks or every four
weeks, or you know um, I likepeople to use a product for six

(30:24):
weeks before changing it up.
Oh, I won't change anything, butI just, you know, I mean, I
know it's going to be good.
I'm just saying like, just whenI start seeing changes, I guess
I might just film them sopeople can kind of see yeah,
okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
But just for anyone who's wondering, like how often
they should change up a skincareregimen, I look like every
season at reevaluating yourskincare.
Okay, so you want to givesomething six to 12 weeks?
Because one of the biggestmistakes I see is that people
change it up too quickly andthen they just get angry,
irritated skin.
They don't get efficacy ofanything, they're just they're
confusing their skin right, yeah, yeah.

(31:00):
It's like if you go and you eatpopcorn, and then you eat pizza,
and then you eat ice cream,like your stomach doesn't feel
good, right?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly.
Well, these better be nicer.
So after the vitamin C, we'regoing to go so liposomal retinol
serum.
So right, I'm assuming that'sno wait.
Am I only doing this at night?
The retinol serum at night, yes, so during the day I'm just

(31:29):
doing the vitamin C and then I'mgoing to do the moisturizer.
Yes, and I love this littlemoisturizer container.
I love this.
I don't know if people can seethis, but it like pumps out like
this, so then you're notsticking your fingers in there
all the time, so it keeps, I'massuming, the thing from getting
contaminated.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah so it's an airless pump as well, to prevent
it from getting contaminated.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, so it's an airless pump as well to prevent
it from getting contaminated,and I know.
But if you're like me and youwant to use every drop, last
drop, you can open it up onceit's done and grab the last
drops in there.
I love that.
I love this container.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
I'm like you I like to get every last drop like I'll
cut the tubes open oh yeah, allof it like why do?
We want that to go to waste.
So yeah, so I mean, and whenyou're at the end, just the way
the airless pump works, youshould have maybe one day left
in there, two days at the mostand okay.
So this is a hyaluronic acidbrightening moisturizer is the
name smells so good, I know,isn't the smell yeah, yeah, yeah

(32:22):
, it's really so.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
You have hyaluronic acid in here as well, so does it
have a little bit more thanmaybe the vitamin?

Speaker 1 (32:28):
C.
Oh yeah, yeah, the vitamin C isjust to kind of balance it out,
but this is rich in hyaluronicacid.
But there's another really coolingredient in here.
It's kojic acid and it comesfrom reishi mushrooms.
So, it's a reishi mushroomextract that basically produces
kojic acid, and the kojic acidis lightening and brightening to
the skin.

(32:48):
So that's where we're seeing alot of brightening and
lightening of the skin.
So it it lightens the skinwithout killing the melanocytes
or the pigment cells, likesomething like hydroquinone
would do so most people havesome sort of a like an uneven
pigmentation after the age of 30um, just from a little
like, yeah, little things, yeah,so it's not enough to bleach
anyone's skin, it's just enoughto lighten it.

(33:09):
And then there's also scienceon kojic acid showing that it
helps protect the skin, like ithas some chelation effects from
particulate matter in the air.
So for people who maybe live inNew York City or China or high
pollution areas Anywhere thesedays, I know I know Like right
outside here, yeah, like highpollution areas, it's just
protecting us with the chelationeffects to help prevent

(33:32):
breakdown and it's hydrating,yeah and there's tons of
botanicals.
There's shea butter, jojoba oil,there's green tea and then
there's the aha bha and it'sonly 0.5.
So, like, how much glycolic doyou normally put on your skin?
I think it's a 10%, okay, 10%,yeah, and the strength varies

(33:54):
depending on the pH level of thetopical.
So they're not all related,they're not all equal.
Like you can't just say 10% isstronger than 5%.
Sometimes 5% will be strongerthan 10% depending on how it's
formulated.
But this has like a 0.5%.
So it's not enough for someoneto feel like their skin is red
or irritated, but it's enough toloosen up the dead skin cells,

(34:16):
the dead cornea sites at the toplayer, so that actually the
hydration can penetrate.
So the jojoba and hyaluronicacid and everything can
penetrate.
So for someone who I feel likethis is a very light moisturizer
for everyone to use twice a day.
Typically, if someone's oily, Ionly have them use a
moisturizer once a day at night,but I actually this is the

(34:37):
first moisturizer I've been ableto use twice a day and because
of the kojic acid and itsprotection from the particulate
matter, I want to use it twice aday.
So I've been using this twice aday.
I might do three to four pumpsat night and one to two pumps in
the morning.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, that's exactly.
I've been doing that at night alittle bit more, just kind of
do one extra little layer.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
So okay, and that works with our circadian clock.
So at night we have moretrans-epidermal water loss, or
TOOL is T-E-W-L, and we want toreally soak it in, like those
women in the fifties with thecold cream on their face Like
they had it right.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
This is what I was going to say.
When you're talking about allthese, you know, like reishi,
mushrooms and plant extracts.
So back when I was in highschool I had this book by.
It was published by Vogue andit was all these like different
face masks, you know, likepineapple, and you know all like
these homemade things and Iwould just I like deep dove into

(35:30):
that.
I thought it was so cool.
You know it was like somethingwith like avocado.
So I mean, clearly we know fromsome person, like some I don't
know intuitive level, that likeplants are, do you know, can
help us with our skin.
I mean I'm thinking of like thebody shop, kind of like really
popularized that.
Do you remember Anita Roddick?
From the body skin, I mean I'mthinking of like the body shop
kind of like really popularizedthat Do you remember?

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Anita.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Roddick from the body shop.
I just I love like how shewould go out to different parts
of the world and see how peoplewere taking care of the skin and
what they were doing, and Idon't know if that all made it
into her products, but it wasfascinating to me and I.
So when you talk about thesedifferent plant compounds and
know different things in here,I'm like, yeah, that is just.
It just makes sense to me.

(36:08):
It makes a lot of sense, rightyou?

Speaker 1 (36:10):
know it's so hard because we want to work in the
rhythm of nature and have thebenefits of nature and not
deplete it.
So I think sometimes, when wehave, when we find secrets from
nature, we end up like as humans, wanting all of it and
depleting it.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
You know, yeah, and I .

Speaker 1 (36:27):
There's like there's some science-backed stuff like
green tea and chamomile that areall really calming and
antioxidant there's, and thenthere's centella asiatica, which
can help with something calleddermatoporosis or the thinning
of the skin that we get, andthat's in these products as well
.
So they take little amounts oflike a whole bunch of different

(36:48):
botanicals and they extract itand put it in here just so you
have enough, without you knowlosing the homeostasis that
we're always trying to maintainWell and, like you said, this is
going to be like the core.
Yeah, we'll talk about how tointegrate.
Integrate different things, youknow, as you guys develop more
products as people needdifferent things, they need to

(37:13):
go out and get other thingstotally the other thing as far
as minimalism goes.
So a lot of times in the pastI've seen you know, eye cream,
oh yeah, neck cream, hand creamno, not with this oh this is
tested around the eyes.
So I use like three to fourpumps at night.
I put it everywhere, all around, all around my eyes, my neck,
my chest, and then take theleftover, sweep the back of my
hands.
Okay, every single night.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
So it will penetrate that eye.
That's what I'd always heard,like oh, you have to have eye
cream because it won't.
You know, your regularmoisturizer won't penetrate that
skin.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
But how is it different from the?

Speaker 2 (37:42):
I mean it is different.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
It has less oil glands than the rest of the face
, so sometimes we need morehydration, but we really need to
make sure something's testedaround the eyes just to make
sure it's safe.
We're not putting it in oureyes, but we're making sure it's
safe around the eyes.
So this product is safe aroundthe eyes.
So it's just like how many lesssteps are we saving?
We're saving a step of doinggrowth factors or stem cells in

(38:03):
the morning.
We're saving another step ofnot using an eye cream and not
using a neck cream by having,like, multiple ingredients in
one product.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Well, let's talk about the environment.
That's just that much lesspackaging that you know we're
throwing away or recycling orwhatever you know.
So, okay, so, so that was likethickest to thinnest in the
morning but thickest to thinnestat night.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Are we using?
No, we're not using the vitaminc at night.
I'm using the retinol and thenthe moisturizer.
Okay, I don't want to talkabout the night until we talk
about sunscreen julie.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Oh god, all right, I'm coming clean.
I don't use sunscreen, I neverreally have, it makes me break
out and I just but I will.
I have.
I went to hawaii and I will useit like if I'm in the sun, like
if I'm gonna go hiking like Iwill send me was ridiculous,
though that was way too muchsunscreen.
Well, I know, because I hadalready gotten sunburned because
I didn't use it the day before.
But like, if I'm going toHawaii or if I'm, you know, like

(38:57):
I know I'm going to be out inthe sun all day, then I put
sunscreen on.
But like I'm mostly workingfrom home and I know I have a
window next to me, I know, Iknow, I know I can still get
like issues from the window, butI do have the for sure.
In the summer I have the drapesdrawn because it's just too.
It's just too hot, it's too hot.

(39:17):
So I'm kind of inside a lot.
And I just noticed, if I useeven the zinc moisturizer, the
titanium based moisturizer,sunscreens excuse me After so
many days, my skin will get dulland if I'm not exfoliating in
some manner with glycolic acidor a retinol or something, I
will start breaking out as well,I think we just have to find

(39:41):
the right one for you.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
So we're so different because I'm outside like three
to four hours a day, I know.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I'm always outside whether I'm hiking or biking,
and this may change once Reaganhas gone, once my son has gone,
then my schedule will be alittle bit more different.
I just leave my kids at home.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
No, I'm just kidding, no, no.
So I mean like there's so muchscience showing that visible
light and the blue light fromthe computer screens are
damaging our skin cells.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So I definitely like people to wear.
I don't wear sunscreen anywhereon my body except for my face
my neck, my chest and the backof my hands, and then the rest
of my skin.
I cover with either clothing orI also take certain supplements
to help protect my skin.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Polypodium or something or other.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, polypodium Leucotobus which is a foreign
extract, but also I mean all thestuff that you've taught me to
eat, all the food that Julie hastaught me to cook, because I'm
always getting takeout.
So I feel like the natural SPFof my skin has increased by
having that kind of a diet.
Um, but I also feel just likewe need skincare.

(40:50):
We do need to protect the areasthat we are going to be
exposing every day, because weare exposing our face and our
neck and the back of our handsevery day, like all day for a
hundred plus years, so I don'twant those areas to look
weathered, so I have people.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
You have to play around and try to find the right
sunscreen as I have tried, likeyou know, expensive ones, they
just yeah, yeah, no fragrance.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I can give you a couple brands Like I like Elta
MD, I like Elastin, but you'rewasting your money on skincare
if you're not protecting yourskin from the sun.
You can use Brush On Block,which is like a powdered brush
on sunscreen.
There's a lot of differentsunscreens, but zinc oxide, SPF
30 or higher, and then I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Okay, and you can do it once a day, like there's this
whole idea of having to reapplylike is okay.
Yeah, Because that was my otherthing I'm like I am not going
to reapply this thing.
You know, like I'm going to doit once in the morning and
that's it.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
I think that medical legally we have to say that
because the way that the testsare done to grade the SPF are
for a certain period of time.
Okay, so we have to give thoserecommendations from a practical
prac app standpoint.
Yeah, I mean, who's going to bedoing that?
You know we already have makeupapplied or whatever we're.
We're living life, we don'twant to keep applying it, but I
do like the brush on powderedsunscreens for that reason, just
sort of fill in the blank kindof thing.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I mean if I were out in the sun all day, I mean I
would reapply.
I mean you know that all wear ahat yeah.
Oh, I'm both.
I mean both happen.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
But it's so easy.
So morning you wash your face,you put your vitamin C on right
away.
After you wash your face, yougo put a layer of clothes on.
You come back, you put yourmoisturizer on, you brush your
teeth and let that dry, and thenyou put your sunscreen on and
you're out the door.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
It takes no time, okay, it's like I'm gonna do it,
I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it.
I made you do the beet, kvassand the beets and all the stuff.
I didn't make you, but you knowlike I'm addicted, yeah, yeah,
so okay I'm addicted to the beetkvass.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
I know it's so good, so good.
Does everyone want to see myveins and how pumped they are
from the beet kvass?
My nitric oxide is just off thecharts.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
I love it okay, so we got my morning okay I'll think.
I mean I'll figure out thesunscreen and then um nighttime
I'm washing again.
Well, I'm gonna take.
If I wore makeup like today, Iwould take it off with some kind
of what do you call it mycellular water.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
You can do two.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Okay, so I use micellar waterfor eye makeup.
You can do that, or you can doan oil-based cleanser.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Some sort of an oil to pick up the makeup, okay, and
then cleanse with the cleanser.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
And then cleanse with the cleanser for two minutes
and then I'm going to be usingthe retinol first.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yes, so now we're working with our circadian clock
at night.
So our circadian clock at night, we're preparing it at night,
and I don't do this step untilI'm ready to turn the lights off
and the one thing I do do.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I do wash my skin every night, Like I do wash my
face every night.
I will say that I might usecrap products, but I do wash my
face every night.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
You might have in the past, but you're not.
You won't be using, Not anymore.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Now I'm going to have like I'm going to have grown up
, I'm going to be a grown up andhave grown up skincare.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Welcome to the club.
So, same as the vitamin C, it'san airless pump and I you know
if somebody is a virgin toretinol.
You can see this isn't as thickas the vitamin.
C, I don't know if you couldall see that, but I would do one
pump to the whole face andavoid the creases around the
eyes, around the nose and aroundthe mouth and around this area

(44:15):
of the neck, but otherwise I putit in all of these areas.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
It's because it settles in there right, and then
that causes more irritation.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, it can.
I put way too much on me, okay.
So with the retinol, basicallyat night is when our body is in
renewal, regeneration, so wewant to support that with
vitamin a.
So retinol converts in the skinto retinoic acid which sends
signals into the cells toregenerate and renew.
And the issue in the past withretinol is that it kind of like

(44:45):
peels away the top layer of yourskin.
Have you used it?
I have.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yes, so, uh, my sister and my mom my sister is
eight years older than me andobviously my mom is, you know
whatever 23 years they than me,and obviously my mom is you know
whatever 23 years they wereusing it a lot and so they gave
me like the real ret day, likethe prescription strength, and
so I did use it for a while.
But the things I didn't likeabout it, like you said, I felt
like my skin was just gettingpeeled off and it made me way
more sensitive to the sun, and Iwas living in California and

(45:11):
again, at that time, I don'tremember it was like you either
had to use full zinc, like theydidn't have, you know, or you
had to use those other ones, andthose other ones like gave me
painful bumps.
So I just kind of stopped usingit.
Um, but I used it probably forlike a year or two and I noticed
like like I can always tellwhen older women have been using
it for like 40 years becausetheir skin is like white and

(45:34):
it's really thin.
It seems like.
I don't know, I just maybe I'm.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
I think they had CO2 laser resurfacing Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
But it just looks wrong.
Something looks too thin.
Not from retinol, okay, noretinol, I mean Retin-A, I guess
is like the prescription one.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
So prescription.
Retin-a is the name brand fortretinoin or retinoic acid.
Thank you, so retinol convertsinto retinoic acid in the skin
okay, it goes through one otherstage before that into
retinaldehyde, but retinaldehydeisn't absorbed very well
topically, so that's why mostpeople use retinol.
Um, so retinol is weaker thanprescription strength.
It's weaker than prescriptionstrength tretinoin or Retin-A or

(46:13):
whatever name brand.
There's hundreds of name brandsout there, yet it's more
tolerable.
So the closer you get to theend point, the more irritating
it can be for the skin, like forme I just peel, I look like I'm
peeling all the time, yeah, Iwould just get red.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
And you know, I mean, and I made the mistake of
putting it in here, which is howI knew not to do that- so yeah,
Okay, but it's also the mostscientifically studied
ingredient since the 1970s andwith I'll just call the
retinoids.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
So with retinol and other retinoids, basically they
turn over skin cells, they helpstimulate collagen formation,
they reverse sun damage.
So just say someone's in theirthirties, forties or fifties
they're like, oh, I've neverdone anything and now I want to
do something.
Retinol is the thing to dobecause it's while it's not
trending on TikTok and it's notas sexy as other things, it's

(47:02):
it's because it's boring, Causeit works Like no one's talking
about chicken.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
You know well, maybe some things, but like you, know
cause.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
It's like like we know it's a good protein and
it's just we know it works.
It's not a trend that's goingto go anywhere, it's just
getting it to be tolerated bypeople without having the
irritation, and that's where theformulation matters.
So I found a cosmetic chemistthat can make a liposomal
technology.
So liposomes are really coolbecause it's basically an

(47:31):
encapsulation.
So the retinol is encapsulated,it's surrounded by a capsule,
okay, and on the outside of thatcapsule are phospholipids,
which basically are, you know,phospholipids.
They go through the cellmembrane.
So they go through theepidermis without irritating the
integrity of the epidermis andthey get delivered to where they
need to be in the skin.
Sneaky.
And the capsule, theencapsulation, allows it to be

(47:53):
delayed release over time.
So you don't get that punch,you get more of a delayed
release and benefits of thesignals to stimulate collagen,
reverse sun damage, lift offpigmentation, help reduce fine
lines and wrinkles.
Okay, the whole night whileyou're sleeping.
And then obviously throughoutthat time.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
That's really cool.
Okay, good Cause, I'm lookingforward to using that.
I was thinking like, oh gosh, Idon't know, I don't know if I
want all the irritation and haveyou used it every night?
I haven't used it.
I haven't used retin.
I haven't used, like Trentonknowing, in years, and then I
haven't used like a retinol.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
So if someone hasn't used a retinol, even though it's
liposomal, I would still havethem start three times a week.
Okay, so just do one, maybe twopumps to the face, neck, chest,
and then always take the reston your palms of whatever
high-end skincare product you'reusing and sweep the back of
your hands, because we know thisarea ages too you know, I know
Trust me.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
So I would do that three times a week.
All of YouTube, let me know too, anyway, okay.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Your hands don't look 36.
Wait, so your.
Your hands don't look 36.
Wait, so I would do.
Are you doing your glycolicacid?
Oh no, I don't.
I only do that in the morning Inever do that at night, you do
that in the morning.
Yeah, why would you never dothat at night?

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I don't know.
I just I think, because I usedto use retinol at night or retin
trenton or whatever you knowthe prescription stuff, and then
I just have always associatedthat with the morning.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I don't know I would probably do your glycolic every
other night, alternating withretinol for okay, for like two
to three weeks and see how yourskin does.
Okay, and then, if your skin isdoing well and tolerating it
well, I would boost it.
I would boost the retinol onenight per week, or one night

(49:32):
every two weeks until you'reable to do it every night.
Okay.
Alternatively, what you can doif you don't want to give up
your glycolic because ifsomeone's on something, I don't
like them to just changeabruptly I like to kind of ease
in and out of things I would puton your glycolic after the
vitamin C in the morning.
Okay, because vitamin Cactually will do better in an

(49:53):
acidic environment.
Okay, so it won't hurt it.
There are certain things thatdon't do well with acids, like
growth factors.
You don't want to apply acidsat the same time as growth
factors, but with the vitamin Cyou're not going to have an
issue, even though there's stemcells in there.
I think there should be.
They should be fine with alittle bit more of an acidic
environment.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
okay, yeah, and then just let it dry and all grown up
, and then I'll do themoisturizer after the retinol,
yep.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Then you want to take your moisturizer again and then
just load it on.
So it's so easy.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
It's three steps morning, three steps night I
love the no neck cream and theno eye cream I mean again
especially as somebody who'sgoing to travel.
First of all, these are greatfor travel, but I'm only
traveling with this much insteadof, like you know, when you see
those women with the traincarriers or whatever you know,
with all this stuff.
I'm just not that kind ofperson.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Right and the cleanser hasn't come out yet.
I think it's going to come outin about a week, okay, and out
in about a week, okay, and Ibelieve it's under four ounces
as well, because that's reallyimportant.
I we both travel a lot and Iwant to bring my stuff when I
travel.
I don't want to go to a newenvironment with unknown
conditions and unknown skincare.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
I want to keep it consistent.
Yeah, I think it's three ounceswith tsa right, is it three
ounces?
I don't know.
I thought it was four, maybe, Idon't know so many milliliters
anyway, this is going to be fine.
This is only 1 and 1.7, 1.8.
So it'll be fine.
So that's great.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Let me think if there's anything that I forgot.
Okay, so the retinol isliposomal technology.
Other cool things about theretinol that they were able to
formulate in is it also has lowlevels of hyaluronic acid.
So it kind of you know itdoesn't feel burning on your
skin or drying on your skin.
It has that sort of um likethat.

(51:38):
I don't want to call it theglycerin like feel, but you know
what I'm talking about.
It has just sort of a soft feel.
And then there's also the greentea.
There's propolis in it, andthen there's that antioxidant
complex with the chamomile, thecucumberella asiatica in there,
and then there's also a littlebit of jojoba oil.
It's not enough to make anyonegreasy, but just enough to keep

(51:59):
it balanced and lightweight,which I like super elegant so
what I'm gonna do is I don'tknow I'm gonna I have to figure
out some way.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
I want to almost like , do like weekly face updates
and pictures and stuff forpeople.
I have had my, just so you know, so keeping you guys on your
toes.
I did have my face age tested,which came out at 54, which
isn't so great.
I'm 56.
So, um, and it had a lot to dowith my eye area.
So we'll see if I can lower myface age according to this and

(52:30):
I'll make sure everyone knowswhatever it was in the
dermatologist's office, right,um, so I'll figure out what that
I think what that test wasmachines.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
It was the.
Yeah, it was, it was a machineit was some kind of machine.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
I put my chin on it and it gave like and it and
there is some serious sun damagegoing on underneath.
You know, photo, photo, stuff.
Yeah, if you saw that you'd belike yep, I have it too
sunscreen.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
I haven't had my age tested, though, but I I had that
looked at years ago and I waslike, yeah, it's all pushed
below though because I've beenusing so much skin.
But I mean, we all, we bothgrew up in an age where it was.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
I was a swimmer.
I was a swimmer, I mean, I wasin the pool every day.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I was 29 when sunscreen came out, I'm like why
would anyone want to use that?
I purposely want to get a tanlike the only reason I go in the
sun and the foil.
Yeah, you know, but it's nevertoo late.
Like it's never too late, we'reall like well, anyway.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
So we do have some some, you know, scientific way
of of figuring this out.
But I'm also just going to kindof go by like some pictures and
just come up with some weeklyway of testing this and I mean,
I'm sure it's going to be greatbecause it's definitely better
than tallow and stuff I'mgetting at Marshall's.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
So anyway, you're like the perfect person to start
with.
Right, but the thing is is likeI don't want anyone to think
that we want them to hampertheir lives, like we live really
full lives.
We go outside every day.
We clearly you know I tell youthis all the time how I grew up
in like a poor family and Ididn't have anything besides
iceberg, lettuce and canned peasuntil I was like 25.

(54:07):
And in college I lived off ofalcohol and fiber, one cereal
and apples.
And like here we are today,like we're doing the best we can
and that's like all we won'ttalk about my past, Trust me but
you can.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
you can definitely turn things around, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
We can turn things around, yeah, and like it's
definitely more fun when youhave a friend to do it with.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, for sure, awesome.
Thank you so much.
Thank you Love you Love you.
Love you too.
This is going to be fun.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Bye everyone Bye, bye .

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Thank you for joining us on Listen to your Skin by
Moon and Skin.
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