EP 3 | Learn the Art of Makeup on Healthy Skin

Flawless makeup starts with healthy skin!

In this episode of Listen to Your Skin, we’re joined by expert esthetician and makeup artist  Jaselle Jamoua to break down the connection between skincare and makeup.

Giselle shares her top skincare do’s and don’ts, from building a solid at-home routine to prepping your skin for makeup that looks and feels amazing. We’re talking exfoliation, sun protection, skincare myths, and how to blend skincare with makeup for a natural, glowing finish.

Your skin is always changing—learn how to give it exactly what it needs.

Tune in, take notes, and level up your beauty routine. And don’t forget to subscribe for more expert tips and beauty inspo!

                                               • ABOUT THE GUEST  •

Connect with Jaselle Jamoua, a licensed esthetician and professional makeup artist with over a decade in the beauty industry. Since 2013, she has specialized in enhancing natural beauty and boosting client confidence. Now offering customized skincare treatments, she combines expertise with the latest techniques to create relaxing, results-driven experiences.

Whether you're looking for expert skincare or flawless makeup, Jaselle is ready to help you look and feel your best.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the
podcast where science meetsnature to celebrate the story of
your skin.
Your skin is a living canvas,ever evolving, deeply personal
and uniquely yours.
Each week, we'll dive into thescience of healthy skin, share
empowering stories and uncovertransformative self-care rituals
.
We're here to help you embraceevery phase of your journey with

(00:22):
confidence and care.
Hi everyone, Welcome to thisweek's episode of Listen to your
Skin by Moon and Skinconfidence and care.
Hi everyone, welcome to thisweek's episode of Listen to your
Skin by Moon and Skin, and I'myour host, Dr Jen Haley.
This week, I have the pleasureof welcoming Giselle Jamoa to
the show.
Hi Giselle.
Hi, Giselle's a licensedesthetician and a professional
makeup artist with over a decadeof experience in the beauty
industry.
Beginning in her career as amakeup artist in 2013, she

(00:46):
developed a passion forenhancing natural beauty and
helping clients feel confidentin their skin, and, more
recently, Giselle expanded herexpertise by becoming a licensed
esthetician specializing incustomized skincare treatments.
With a commitment to continuouslearning, Giselle stays up to
date on the latest techniquesand innovations to provide her

(01:08):
clients with the best possiblecare.
Her goal is to create arelaxing, results-driven
experience that empowers eachindividual to look and feel
their best and it shows Thanksfor being here, Giselle.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, so that's a neatcombination.
I've talked before to makeupartists and I've talked to many
estheticians, and I love thatyou've meshed the two of them
together, in particular becausewith your work as an esthetician
, you're we know this is aprocess of transforming
somebody's skin.

(01:42):
It takes time for someone toimprove their skin texture,
their tone, help with some brownspots, some other blemish
issues, and in the meantime, youcan help them with makeup
application.
And, like on that note, can youdive a little bit deeper on the
importance of skincare and howit relates to makeup
applications, something I knowvery little about?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yes, of course.
So I am a big believer in yourmakeup only looks as good as how
you take care of your skin.
A lot of times I will have aclient in my chair and I'm so
excited to do their glam and thegreat thing about that is that
I could help them figure outways so that their next
appointment, when they come infor that, they are either
exfoliated a little bit betteror they can like dermaplane

(02:36):
beforehand, or we can schedulethem a consultation so we can do
a skin analysis to see whatthey really need, so that in the
future when they are coming infor their makeup appointments,
they're not worried about eitherfine lines or wrinkles or
blemishes, maybe a little bit ofhyperpigmentation or their
rosacea.
So all of these reallyintertwine really tremendously

(02:57):
when you're doing your makeup.
So I think it's reallyimportant that you know clients
understand that makeup is onlygoing to sit on top of the skin,
but what's happening underneathis actually more important.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay, that's great.
So there's so many proceduresyou just mentioned which I want
to dive a little bit deeper into.
As far as skin care itself,what are the do's and don'ts of
what people should or shouldn'tapply to make their makeup more
effective?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Great question.
I love when people ask me thisbecause it's so important to
prep your skin before you comein and get your makeup done.
So I always like to say that ifyou are going to get a facial
before you have a big event,that you should be getting your
facial at least a week beforeanywhere from seven to 10 days

(03:48):
before your event, just so yourskin is a little bit more fresh.
And if you do purge which Idon't know if I'm going to tell
the audience here purging iswhen you break out a little bit
after a facial.
It's really normal.
It's just because your skin ismore exposed and a little bit
more sensitive.
So you want time for your skinto heal before you come in for

(04:10):
your makeup appointment.
But the biggest thing that Ialways tell my clients is really
just to make sure that yourskin is exfoliated and
moisturized and protected beforeyou come into your appointment.
So exfoliator, whether it'sphysical or chemical and then
moisturizing your skin as wellas protecting it with a good SPF

(04:31):
.
That's not going to make yourmakeup pill.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Okay, that's great, that's really great and that's
consistent with the advice I'veheard before from previous
makeup artists, and I loveconsistency because you know
there's truth in it when youhave people that are experienced
, with decades of experience,like yourself, saying the same
thing again and again.
I want to go back to purging,because there's a lot of people
that will use that word and Idon't know if they quite
understand what's going on.
So, the way that I look at itas a dermatologist, I always

(04:57):
want to understand, like what'sthe mechanism of action?
What's going on beneath thesurface?
What's going on beneath thesurface?
And when you look at likesomeone's skin who's in their
20s or 30s, it takes about sixweeks to get from the bottom
layer to the top layer of theskin, whereas someone like me in
their 50s, it might take more,like eight to 12 weeks.
Our stem cells get a littlelazy and things don't turn over

(05:18):
as quickly, and most people thathave blemishes, they normally
will take about six to eightweeks to go from the bottom
layer to the top layer.
So what I feel is going on withthis purging is that when you
see an esthetician anesthetician that is medical,
that's results-driven they'redoing maybe more aggressive
treatments that are helpingthose deep pimples that were six

(05:41):
to eight weeks old kind ofsurface and come to a head a
little bit quicker, those deeppimples that were six to eight
weeks old kind of surface andcome to a head a little bit
quicker.
And that's what we call purge,with the hopes that the next
cycle of skin is clear.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Is that how you see it?
That's exactly how I see it, Ido believe.
When people eat a little pieceof chocolate and then they wake
up the next morning and they'relike, oh my God, I broke out
because I ate chocolate.
No, you had that brewing andcooking underneath your skin for
some time.
But maybe what happened whenyou had a little bit more sugar

(06:12):
is that it helped pro notprolong, I guess, but it helped
activate that blemish to come upfrom underneath the skin.
So I totally agree with thatstatement.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Right, yeah, so what you're doing in the office is
you're helping all of that tosurface more quickly, and it's
important that people do theright things at home to make the
next layer of skin clear.
So, to your point, it's notreally a chocolate, everyone, if
you're listening, it's thesugar.

(06:55):
So a dark chocolate or a cacao,not so much, but we now know
that sugar and dairy, exactlyyes, should look for depending
on what their needs are of theirskin, because I think that word
facial is thrown around a lotand it can mean very different
things yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
I think that it's skincare is not a
one-size-fits-all by any meansand everybody's and everybody's
experience is going to differfrom client to client.
I think it really starts withcoming in and doing a skin
analysis to see what procedureor what facial, I guess, is

(07:30):
going to fit your needs best.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
What is a skin analysis?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
A skin analysis is pretty much when you come in and
you take a closer look at theclient's skin under either like
a mag lamp, which is like amagnifying glass that has a
little lamp so you can see theskin a little bit more clearly
or just, you know, I love usingmy hands.
Obviously, sanitation is soimportant, so my hands are clean

(07:57):
or I am wearing gloves before Itouch anybody's skin.
But I do like to feel the skinto see if there's anything
underneath, because, for example, my skin I you won't really be
able to see a lot on the surface, but when I touch my own skin,
I could feel like congestionunderneath the surface, and so

(08:17):
that's going to help me identify.
Okay, is this, you know?
Is this a pimple or is it ablackhead?
Is it congestion?
Is it dry skin?
Is it cystic acne?
What's happening underneath thesurface?
So what I like to do in my skinanalysis is really take my time
, feel what's on the skin, aswell as using a magnifying lamp,

(08:38):
to see if I can see anythingthat maybe my naked eye couldn't
catch so you're able to see ifsomeone has congestion is prone
to acne, if they're sensitiveand more inflamed, and that will
direct your therapy or yourtreatment protocol.
Absolutely, and I'm also reallybig into intake forms.
I cannot stress this enough.
Having a client fill out anintake form is so important

(09:01):
because it really helps meidentify or see little things
that could, you know, trigger abreakout.
Sleep is really important whenit comes to your skin.
Water hydration, externalenvironmental causes these
things are so important and withan intake form it essentially

(09:21):
helps me figure out exactly whatthe client is doing without
having to have a 30 minuteconsultation.
They fill it out I over, I lookit over and then I can kind of
see okay, maybe you're notdrinking enough water, you're a
little bit more dehydrated, andyou know that can help me
identify is their skindehydrated or is it dry?
You know, is it lacking wateror is it lacking oil?

(09:42):
So these things really do helpand that is a part of the skin
analysis as well.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right, it's like you can be in the office and do the
perfect procedure on them, andif they're not doing things at
home that are supporting yourprocedure, it's almost wasted.
So can we pivot a little bitinto at-home skin care?
Yeah, tell me what yourthoughts are on at-home skincare
.
Oh, it's so important.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
It's so important.
I compare skincare at-homeskincare and seeing your
esthetician to the diet andexercise 80-20 rule.
It is so important 20% of theresults that you're going to see
in your diet and exercise, thatcomes from your exercise and

(10:30):
80% of it is from your dieting.
I compare it the same way 20%of the time your results are
going to be driven by youresthetician and what you're
doing in the treatment room.
80% of it is how you maintainit and take care of it at home.
I cannot stress this enough.
You don't have to have a 13step skincare routine, but you

(10:54):
need to have something thatworks for you, because if you're
not taking care of your skin athome, that 20% is not going to
make much of a difference and Iwould hate my clients to waste
their time and their money onsomething that they could easily
be doing at home.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I love that.
I love that analogy.
I've always thought of it aslike brushing your teeth, so you
can go to your esthetician, ielike get your teeth clean every
three months or so Although withthe rate of how how your skin
turns over, it may need to bemore frequently or less
frequently than that but you'restill going to brush your teeth
at home.
So if you don't brush yourteeth at home, then you're just

(11:33):
putting the burden on the dentalhygienist to clean your teeth
and then it.
You know, it looked good for aweek or so.
Just sort of like if somebodydoes a treatment with you or
goes to their dermatologist,they'll look good for a
short-lived period of time, butif they're not doing the basics
at home, then they're not goingto establish a long-term result.
So what are some of the basicskin care that you recommend

(11:54):
universally for people or forthose with?
Let's just say, what's one ofthe biggest issues that you see
with people actually?
Is it acne, is it oil or is ithyperpigmentation?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I would say a lot of it is like aging, a lot of it is
aging and in what way?
aging fine lines, wrinkles,dehydrated skin, dry skin.
I mean, I know that a lot ofpeople are really into tretinoin

(12:32):
right now and they're likeheavily like everybody's on this
, like tretinoin kick, and Ilove that and I think it's great
, but do I think it needs to be,you know, maybe that strong?
No, I think for people who arejust starting off on their
skincare journey that do want totarget some anti-aging I don't

(12:53):
want to say issues, but likeconcerns that they may have I
definitely recommend, likehaving a really good nighttime
routine and, like I said, itdoesn't.
It's not a one size fits alland it's definitely doesn't have
to be like a 15 nighttimeroutine.
And, like I said, it doesn'tit's not a one size fits all and
it's definitely doesn't have tobe like a 15 step routine.
But if you have really goodbasics, a good retinol and a

(13:14):
good moisturizer for nighttime,you don't want to be like
dripping in your skincare thiswhole glazed donut trend that
I'm seeing for people's skin.
I don't know that it really isgoing to give you the results
you need, because I don't see itreally going into the skin.
You know the molecules are notsmall enough to penetrate past

(13:40):
the first layer of the skin.
So does it really?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know that's just how I see it.
I agree, I agree.
I think these are greatquestions because we know our
skin is basically separating usfrom the outside world, so it's
meant not to allow things topenetrate.
And then the other thing wedon't know about skincare is we.
We might know that a retinolworks well.
We might know that a vitamin Ccan work as an antioxidant to
lighten.
We don't necessarily know howthings work together.

(14:07):
So there's science behindindividual molecules.
There's not a ton of scienceshowing that 12 layers don't
actually counter each other andmake things ineffective.
So I always think of okay.
There's this concept calledhormesis.
It's like a little bit ofinjury causes the body to become
stronger.
So if you work out at the gym,you get stronger muscles.
If you do microneedling, youget more collagen.

(14:30):
If you are harsh with anything,you get a scar, you break your
back, you know.
So a little bit of injury canmake it stronger.
Too much can cause that.
And I always wonder, likewhether it's in the longevity
world or the skincare world are.
Some people do almost too manythings and counter the benefits
of just doing a little bit.
And then I also think thatskincare should be accessible

(14:54):
for everyone, despite yourbackground or your socioeconomic
status.
So I think it's reallyimportant for everyone to
realize they're going to getsome benefit, even if they just
use a vitamin C or a retinol.
And for those of you likelistening about retinol, it's
not sexy, it's not in TikTok allthe time, because it's been
around since the 1970s and it'sthe most scientifically proven

(15:17):
molecule to help reverse sundamage, to help stimulate
collagen, even out skin tone.
It just is not like the biggestnewest thing, but it's the most
scientifically backed.
So how do you have peopleinitiate a retinol like?
Break down the details of howyou can get someone to tolerate
it without experiencing a lot ofdryness or redness that we

(15:38):
sometimes will see for sure Ilove that question because it is
so important to not just startslapping on retinol every night.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Like you said, perfect example microneedling
right.
We're damaging the skin just alittle bit enough to help the
skin get stronger and tostimulate collagen, which then
in turn helps improve theelasticity in the skin, helps
you look more youthful and fresh, and it's great.
In the skin helps you look moreyouthful and fresh, and it's

(16:07):
great.
But with retinol, what'simportant to know about it is
too much, too soon is not good.
So I always like to tell myclients if they are interested
in starting a retinol to startwith, like a really gentle
retinol.
I have a couple that Irecommend, but nothing that I'm
really like 100% in love withjust yet.

(16:28):
Myself, I'm still on the huntmyself as safe as possible with
their skin.
So once a week and then theweek after, I recommend twice a

(16:51):
week and then I bump it up toevery other day and then
eventually, at some point theycan, if they want, to start
wearing it every night, andthat's just kind of preference
if your skin can handle it.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, I love that.
I'm very similar in myrecommendations.
So I recommend everything tothe face, neck and chest as one
unit.
I think a lot of times peopleforget the neck and the chest.
But with retinol, if it'scaught in the creases like
around the nose or around themouth or in the fold of the neck
when you sleep at night, it canget really irritating and cause

(17:23):
loosening of the top, thecorneocytes and the top layer a
little too quickly and becomeirritating.
We used to think that usingretinol with a moisturizer made
it less effective and now wefind that that is not true and
it makes it more well tolerated.
And I can have people eitheruse a sandwich technique where
they use a moisturizer first andthen the retinol and then

(17:44):
moisturizer again if they'rereally prone to irritation, or
just use the moisturizerafterwards.
And to your point, it's aboutgoing slow and starting low.
So start low, go slow.
We're stimulating collagenwhich takes three to six months
to form and we're in this forthe long game, like we are in
this for the long.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
oh yeah, and consistency is Absolutely.
When it comes to retinol, youhave to be consistent with it to
see the results of it.
I have been doing Botox since Iwas 23 or 24.
But and Botox is great, youknow we love Botox but you can't

(18:22):
just do it on, you can't justdo Botox by itself.
You know you have to, you haveto have a little cocktail of
things.
You know, that's what I like tocall it a cocktail.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
I call it building a house right Like my hammer alone
cannot build the whole house.
So like, while Botox works ondynamic muscle movement, we're
not going to use it on areas ofthe face where we need to move
the muscles right.
Maybe the frown lines, like whoreally wants a frown face?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
right.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
We're okay without that, but we do want micro
expressions.
So you know, I'm actually happyto see you and I could raise my
brows but like forhyperpigmentation or for, you
know, uneven skin tone ortexture or reversing sun damage,
retinol works so well.
It's really undeniable.
There's so many other thingsout there that try to compete
and they've never taken theretinol spot.

(19:08):
So we'll see.
There's some science withliposomal technology.
That's kind of exciting,because the liposomal technology
can get through the bilipidmembrane without causing so much
irritation to the epidermis.
We also need to see that theresults are there as well.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
So there's a lot of science that's starting to work
in our favor, which is great,and it's really exciting too,
right?
Technology keeps advancing andwe're so excited to see the
future of skincare because itjust I don't know, I think it
keeps getting better and better,in my opinion, I think sky's
the limit, absolutely,absolutely.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
There's a conference I'm going to have you at.
I'm going to tell you about itoffline that I think you should
attend.
You'll love it.
About the science of skincareyeah and um, okay, so let's go
back to uh, facials andesthetician.
So people are using skincare athome.
How often should be they beseeing their esthetician?

Speaker 2 (20:01):
listen, I know that some people may agree and
disagree with me, but because Ido believe it's not a
one-size-fits-all, generally Iwould love to see my clients
every four to six weeks.
However, if you are keeping upwith your skincare at home and
you're doing great and therearen't many skin concerns that

(20:24):
you have, for you to bemotivated to come into the salon
, I recommend every eight to 12weeks, depending on the client,
but generally four to six weeks.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Okay.
So maybe if they have a concernthat they're trying to be
aggressively treating andimproving, it would be more of a
four to six week thing.
Is there any benefit to comingsooner than every four weeks?
Or you really need to letthings sort of settle in and
simmer and take effect, becausewe live in a very impatient
society.
So is there too much?

Speaker 2 (20:57):
There is too much.
I don't recommend coming insooner than four weeks.
You can technically come inevery two weeks, but you know,
at that point it's like are youagain?
You know it's like you'rerelying on your hygienist
essentially to clean your teethfor you, like why?
You know why?
Why would you want to?
You're?
I am for the people, right,like it's a business and I

(21:19):
understand that completely andthis is my living.
But I also don't want to betaking advantage of my clients.
I feel like I really strive tobe honest with my clients and I
wouldn't want my client comingin every two weeks just for them
to have the same results as ifthey were to come in every four
weeks.
I would send you home withproducts and I would tell you

(21:39):
hey, keep up with this at home.
You're doing amazing.
As much as I love you and I'dlove to see you, I don't think
it's necessary.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Okay, so that's great .
So if you're listening andthere's something that you want
to aim to improve, whether it'sacne pigmentation, some
blemishes, some uneven skin tone, you just want to boost every
four to six weeks If you feellike you're on cruise control
more towards the every two tothree months.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Got it Absolutely.
Now you're on a desert island,you don't have an esthetician.
You get to bring one product.
What would that product be?

Speaker 2 (22:17):
So standard and generic.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
I know what you're going to say.
Well, maybe I don't.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
SPF, spf.
I know what you're going to say.
Well, maybe I don't SPF SPF Ifyou have a good SPF, like you're
, solid.
Sun damage is so horrible.
I've seen what it does topeople's skin it ages you, it
dehydrates you, it takes a lotof.
You know, sun damage can evenaffect your like oil, the oils

(22:43):
in your skin.
It's yeah, spf, all the spf,all the way all the way right.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
It's so interesting because people will often get
sun because they think it helpswith acne, but it actually
breaks down the elastic tissueand it makes the the pores
actually look bigger over timeso maybe some short-term gain,
but really long-term, likehorrible pain.
so oh yeah, I know it's such anot sexy answer, but it's really
the truth, because you see itin San Diego, I see it in

(23:08):
Arizona and I've lived in Hawaii.
I've even lived in, like, theRocky mountains, and the sun
damage causes more problems withyour skin than anything else.
So before you spend money on ahigh tech, you know, dna repair
enzyme or even a retinol, youhave to avoid the sun because it
breaks down collagen and causesall the things we don't want.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Absolutely.
I am like the biggest believerin SPF.
Is like not a miracle product.
I don't think any one productis a miracle product, but I do
think SPF is is close, is close.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
I know, at least for the high real estate areas.
So I'm a big fan of gettingbroad surface areas of the body
exposed a few times a week,depending on where you live and
your skin type, although I donot believe in having my face,
my neck and my chest especiallyat the age of 53, exposed to the
sun.
Yeah, because I do not want thewrinkles and the cancer and all
the other things that I getAbsolutely Even your hands.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Oh, spf on my hands every morning, like whatever is
left on my face.
I rub it into my hands and youknow you can even get sun
exposure.
Excuse me, you can even get sunexposure from your windshield
when you're driving.
You know your hand is on thesteering wheel and you're
driving.
You get sun exposure from thattoo.

(24:27):
And the I've heard, which Ifind myself I've noticed as well
.
Maybe I'm a little bit morehyper aware, but now I'm
noticing that that how you cantell somebody's age is like
really in the folds of theirnecks and in their hands.
Because, like we were talkingabout with Botox, you know it
only relaxes the muscles, butlike it.
What about the folds?
What about the hands?
What you know.

(24:48):
So, protecting the hands, theneck, the chest super important.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I mean to your point about the sun damage.
So people will say I don't getsun there.
You know, when I see them foran examination I don't get sun
there.
It's just because of my age.
I have them look at the upperinner part of their arm and
that's the natural age of ourskin.
Doesn't it look like afive-year-old?
You know, everything else isfrom the sun, so not just

(25:16):
sunscreen, but like all theskincare products I use on my
face, I take the rest on my palmand put it on the back of my
hands because I am consciousabout how quickly my hands age.
Okay, so lots of products.
We talked about some of the keyproducts.
As far as cleansing, why dopeople need to cleanse and
what's up with double cleansing?
Do people need to doublecleanse?
What is double cleansing?
What are the ways to do it?

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Okay, great question.
I love that because I'm a doublecleanser girly.
I double cleanse morning andnight.
People think it's a little toomuch.
It can be if you're usingreally stripping products or if
you're using like a cleanserwith salicylic acid.
You know I recommend to use twodifferent kinds of cleansers.
Again, it's not for everybody,but this is what works for me.

(25:57):
Double cleansing here's likethe thing that people really get
confused by, because they think, you know, I'm washing my face
once, like, of course, all ofthe dirt and the oil.
If I'm doing a good scrub it'sgoing to come out Right, but it
only breaks down the dirt andthe oil.

(26:17):
Your first cleanse.
But when you're doing yoursecond cleanse, that's when the
product is really, you know,getting in there and helping you
with whatever skin concern youhave.
So for people who are acneprone, for example, obviously if
you're like a level two orthree acne prone type of person,
I recommend to do an oilcleanser first.

(26:38):
That's like really gentle, soyou're not causing a lot of
friction on the skin and whenyou emulsify it into your hands,
you'll really see the oil andthe dirt break down as you're
emulsifying and when you go inwith your second cleanser which
I'll always recommend somethingthat has salicylic acid in it
like top tier for acne proneclients.

(26:59):
That is really going to helptarget your skin concern, which
is acne.
So for people who use mandelicacid or lactic acid, those are
targeted for different skinconcerns.
But I always recommend to go inwith an oil cleanser first
because it's gentle and it canbreak down if you're somebody
who wears makeup every day,first because it's gentle and it
can break down if you'resomebody who wears makeup every

(27:21):
day.
Personally I don't, but I stilllike to do it because I just
feel like when I go walkingevery day, I walk for anywhere
from like six to eight miles aday, so I'm getting a lot of
environmental, all of thepollution and the dirt just from
walking in the streets.
You know it's important that Ibreak that down first and then I

(27:41):
go in with my cleanser that isgoing to target my skin concern,
which for me personally, I loveto use a cleanser that's like
really hydrating.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Okay, that's great.
Okay.
So the first step is really toremove the environmental
particles and the toxins makeup,spf and then the second one is
to be skin directed.
So I like salicylic acid a lottoo for oily skin because it's
drawn to oil, it'santi-inflammatory, it comes from
the willow tree, that's same asaspirin and it's it's tolerated

(28:15):
by a lot of skin types, whereaslactic acid can burn if you're
rosacea prone.
So I mean anyone listening, ifsomething, if we, if we ever
recommend something and itdoesn't feel good on your skin,
it's not meant for you, right?
And that's why we want peopleto ultimately listen to their
own skin, because your skin willgive you the answers and,
intuitively, you know.
You know what you need andhaving the guidance of a

(28:36):
dermatologist or an estheticianand somebody who understands
skin can help direct you.
Yet you always know your ownskin needs.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
So listen to it 100%.
I am like I.
That's why I stress this somuch Skin is not a one size fits
all.
What works for you is not goingto work for me.
What works for Jack over thereis not going to work for Sally
over here.
It's, it's not.
It's not the same.
So absolutely.
But I clients, do you know,come in sometimes and they do

(29:08):
ask me questions that are reallymeant to be asked like to a
dermatologist, and so I alwayshave to really take a step back
and tell the client like, yes,this is great, these are great
questions.
As much as I want to answerthat for you, I think it's best
that you do see a dermatologist,because some skin concerns are

(29:31):
a little bit more what's theword I'm looking for?
Some skin concerns are a littlebit more, that need a little
bit more medical attention.
Really, you need to go and seea dermatologist.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
They may be a clue something else is going on.
Yeah, and I look going back tomy dentist analogy, right, you
see the dentist once a year,your dermatologist, then you see
your dental hygienist for yourteeth cleaning, like I go four
times a year.
So you see your esthetician,your dental hygienist, for your
teeth cleaning.
Like I go four times a year, soyou see your esthetician and
then you still do your skincareat home, so that you become
attuned to what your skin needs.
The more you give it attention,the more you will understand
and have that relationship withyour skin.

(30:07):
I want to go back to the doublecleanse, like where does
micellar water fall into this?
What are your thoughts onmicellar water.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
I can't speak too much about micellar water
because I don't use it.
I don't necessarily like it, Idon't know.
I don't see that it really doesmuch for clients.
It's a good makeup remover, butI don't believe it should be a
product that's used to cleansethe skin at all.

(30:38):
If anything, I think micellarwater can almost, if it's used
alone can be damaging to theskin.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
How.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
I think when I think of micellar water, I think of it
having that I don't't know thatlike residue-y feeling like
after you use it.
So there's, I don't know muchabout it, but there's just
something in the micellar waterthat I feel like if you use it
alone, it's like I don't know.

(31:13):
I feel like I just spread dirtaround my face.
I don't really feel like Icleaned it.
You know.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
I love that you're so intuitive that way.
So my understanding of thehistory of micellar water is it
was created in Paris when thewater supply was really dirty.
So they took soap particles andthey surrounded it by like a
water molecule, and it was whenpeople had no access to running
water.
Right so to your point offeeling that something's still

(31:40):
on your skin.
It is, it's a soap particlethat's mixed in the water.
I do use it for my makeup but,like as we talked before we
started here, I'm a simple,simple person, like I normally
don't look this glammed up.
So I have like tinted sunscreenand then I just use the
Mylocellar water for my makeupand then I use a cleanser and I
use something called AO2 Clearafterwards, which is

(32:00):
hyperoxygenated water, and I cansee whether my cleanser has
done an effective job or not,because I'll see residue on the
pad from that.
So there's just so.
What we're saying here is thatwe're both experts in the field.
We have like almost 40 yearscombined experience together and
we do things differently.
So there's many things outthere that are there for

(32:21):
everyone.
I've played with oil-basedcleansers and I don't dislike
them.
I'm just a little lazy Like I'ma little lazier than you.
I'm going to be honest as faras doing so many steps.
I really am.
I mean, I'll cleanse my faceonce, then I'll do the oxygen,
then I go get changed, then I'llput my retinol on, then I'll

(32:43):
brush my teeth and then I'll putmy moisturizer on.
And I want the same moisturizerfrom my face, my eyes and my
neck.
Yeah, I don't want like fivedifferent things.
So I'm a little, a littlelazier than you, um, but I'm
just thinking like I forgot whatI was thinking.
I was just wondering, like, asfar as that, the oil-based
cleansers, like, is there anyonewhose skin wouldn't tolerate

(33:04):
that?
Because I think a lot of peoplethat are acne prone are afraid
of using oil and then they endup over drying their skin out.
So I I find that people whohave acne are okay with an
oil-based cleanser, as long asit's not coconut oil right, it
has to be gentle for sure, whichthey're usually not made of
coconut oil.
So like are there particularthings that someone with acne,

(33:26):
prone skin or anyone whoshouldn't use an oil-based
cleanser?

Speaker 2 (33:30):
In my experience I haven't met anybody, or I
haven't seen or heard of anybodythat you know can't necessarily
use an oil-based cleanser.
I think it's just about findingthe right product for you and
the right oil cleanser for you.
So a lot of people really likethose balms because they're, you
know, thick at first and thenyou get to emulsify and it's fun

(33:51):
to use you know, and then thereare people that just like to go
in with the straight pump oilcleanser, and that's a little
bit easier to use as well.
Not as messy as a balm, I wouldsay, but in terms of if there's
a skin type that it doesn'treally work well with, I don't
think so.
I think it's pretty gentleenough for everybody to use.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
And it's not penetrating, it's just being
used to remove.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Exactly, yeah used to remove.
Exactly, yeah, and I think ifyou're obviously taking like a
rough towel and wiping it off,obviously it's going to do a
little bit of damage becauseyou're being so rough with the
product as well as the tool thatyou're using to remove it.
But I don't, I don't think it'sharsh enough to really cause
too much damage.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Okay, let's talk about meshing the worlds between
an esthetician and a makeupartist, because I don't often
meet people that do both, sothat's very powerful, I believe.
So what's your take with havingthe expertise in both those
areas?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Well, like I said, your makeup is only going to
look as good as you know how youtake care of it underneath.
But skincare was something thatI had loved and found so
fascinating since I graduatedhigh school.
I actually wanted to go toesthetician school right after I
graduated high school.
Um, you know, but life happensand you kind of get off the path

(35:18):
a little bit.
But I always knew that I wantedto be a makeup artist as well.
Teachers would ask you know, inschool, as the icebreaker, what
do you want to be when you growup?
And everybody knew that I wasthe girl that wanted to be a
makeup artist, because I justlove glam so much.
But I do think it's so importantto take care of your skin so
that you're to take care of yourskin so that your glam looks

(35:41):
good.
So, really, over the yearssince I started doing makeup in
2013, I really was so fascinatedalso by what products have what
ingredients in them for makeupapplication, and I think that

(36:02):
just made my passion forskincare even more intense,
because I would look at whatfoundations can go with what
primers and moisturizers.
Is it an oil-based moisturizer?
Then I would have to use likean oil-based foundation.
So that's really how they meshas well, and I think it's

(36:23):
important for people whenthey're looking at their makeup
and they're like you know, theseproducts look so amazing on
this person, why don't they lookgood on me?
Well, you know, you have toalso consider the ingredients
that are in your skincareproducts, as well as your makeup
products, and see if they workwell together.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
And also what works well for you, because, like, for
instance, your hair isdifferent from mine, so I
couldn't wear the same hairstyleas you because it wouldn't work
on me.
Just like the shape of yourface is different from mine, so
what looks good on you wouldn'tlook good on me.
And I think this is a reallybig thing.
That I want people to hear islike let's accent your best
asset rather than trying to bewhat someone else's best asset

(37:04):
is, because I'll never be agreat Giselle.
Let's just be honest You'llnever be a great Jen.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Like.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
I'm good at being me, you're good at being you, and
let's just expand who we are inthat category Absolutely yeah.
There's a lot of trends out nownow, and I think that one of the
things that bothers me the most, after being in this industry
so long, is the fact thatthere's a lot of externalizing
and reaching outward for answersrather than coming into

(37:30):
yourself and learning what theanswers are, and it takes
practice to do that with thehelp and guidance of an expert.
Eventually, my goal is foreveryone to be attuned and in
tune and have the intuition ofwhat works well for them, but
there's always the skincaretrends out there, and you know
we do have, we do get caught upwith them.
So, like, what are you seeingnow as far as skincare trends?
What's the good, the bad andthe ugly in your opinion?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Okay, I'm going to start with the bad, and I don't
want anybody coming for me.
As long as we end with the good,yeah, we're going to end with
the good, but I'm lookingdirectly at the camera and
saying this Nobody better comefor me for saying this A trend.
I'm sorry, I don't think anytool is as powerful as your

(38:15):
hands.
So for me, I don't think GuaSha oh, I'm so sorry People are
going to come for me for sayingthis but like, gua Sha is a
great tool, but like, why can'tyou use your hands?
Your hands are the mostpowerful tool that you have when
it comes to your skincare.
The, the sensation even of handon face contact, just feels so

(38:38):
much better than any tool youcan ever use.
So that's my.
I don't want to say bad, butlike it's just not something
that I would ever really be into.
And I know people are obsessedwith Gua Sha right now, like
they have been for years.
But for I don't know, maybeit's just coming up on my for
you page so much these days, butlike I'm seeing it everywhere

(39:00):
and I'm like I'm Dude.
Use your hands.
Like, give yourself a lymphaticmassage.
It's the best thing you can dofor your face.
You want to structure jawline?
You want to get out all theinflammation?
Lymphatic massage.
Use your hands.
It's the same thing as a GuaSha, and you don't need to pay
for a tool to be able to do ityourself.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
I agree, I feel like there's a lot of
overcomplication.
We don't need to overcomplicatethings.
I mean, I do think Gua Sha hasa purpose.
If you want to go there.
My time is better utilizedsomewhere else and I agree the
feedback from your fingers andyour hands not picking.
Right, right, but like massagingand that's part of the routine

(39:42):
of the morning and the night.
It's not even as much theskincare products we're applying
.
It's about taking that time andthat ritual to care for
yourself, especially as women.
We don't do that enough.
We need to take time that isuninterrupted to take care of
ourself, massage our face Aroundthe eyes.
I see people are afraid to likeeven put cream on because
they're afraid to stimulate andtouch around their eyes that

(40:02):
they're going to tear elastictissue.
That's absurd.
It is yeah, we need to removethe lymphatic, you know, move
the lymphatics and stimulate thecollagen a little bit, and by
doing it with your hands insteadof a tool you're not going to
be too aggressive.
So I completely agree with that.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, and I think that if you're gentle, you're
not like you're not causing thatmuch friction in your skin that
you're going to be pulling itso much that you're ruining
whatever elasticity you have inyour skin.
If you're, if you're worriedabout like aging and your skin
sagging or becoming loose it'snot like that at all.
Obviously you're using oils andmoisturizers to help massage

(40:40):
your skin.
You're not going to go in withdry hands and a dry face Like
that's not even enjoyable.
It it hurts actually if youthink about it.
But that's my yeah, that's mything.
And um, another thing that Ithink really has kind of gone a
little crazy in terms of like Idon't know.

(41:02):
I think it's really wild inthis day and age that we're
paying upwards of $60,000 forequipment and devices as
estheticians when some of thebest results you can get are
from like a standard customfacial Do you do chemical peels?

(41:23):
I do chemical peels, you knowit's interesting because I
trained.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Actually I trained in san diego, where you are.
I trained with a lot of chemicalpeels at the beginning of the
laser time and we can get verysimilar results with a good deep
chemical peel, I agree, and wecan with a very expensive laser
and it's about 1 20th of theprice.
So I mean there's also risks ofscarring and things like that,
but like you can do a series ofchemical peels and get some

(41:49):
really good results withoutpaying the price tag of a laser.
I do like lasers for certainthings, like blood vessels,
because of the targeted approach, but for overall, like
prejuvenation and treating finelines and wrinkles and getting
the top layer of skin off tostimulate the stem cells below,
like chemical peels and facialslike you can get a lot of

(42:11):
results from that.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
I love chemical peels .
I think they are so effectiveand I think if they're done
right, you can get amazingresults out of them.
Obviously, you're not going togo in and do a chemical peel on
somebody who's never had one.
You know you're going to startthem off with something a little
bit more gentle, like an enzymeand then, you know, work your
way up to a chemical peel.
But I just I see this crazewithin the past seven to eight

(42:38):
years, I would say, whereeverybody's going cuckoo bananas
over these really expensivedevices and I don't know if it's
just because people like toflex.
I would say that they'regetting these like $1,000
facials or $500 facials, thatyou could get the same result

(43:00):
with maybe a series oftreatments two, three chemical
peels instead of like $1,000.
I don't know, that's just myhow I see it yeah, I always
wonder.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
I have these moments of perception where, like number
one, what if we didn't knowwhen we were born?
How would we show up?
And two is, what if we couldn'ttell anyone what we did, we
just had to show up the way weare you know, like we can't say
oh, I got my hair done, oh, Igot the laser, I got the
whatever.
Just show up as you are right,yeah so I think there's
something to that with the egoand um, just if you're listening

(43:32):
, just know that you can getreally good results on any
budget.
Yeah you just may have to go alittle slower over time.
But that's how I like to dothings aesthetically is I want
you to slowly look better, verylittle over time.
So someone might say oh, didyou get a haircut, did you want,
on vacation?
They can't figure out what youhad done, but then in three to
five years you look remarkablybetter oh yeah you know, it's

(43:53):
just not overnight and it's amindset switch of like let's.
Let's do it slowly anddeliberately and wisely yeah,
it's like going to the gym yeah,exactly.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Or like getting your hair done.
You're not to have like box dyehair that's like jet black, and
then sit in a hairstylist chairfor eight hours and expect to
have platinum, elsa looking hair.
That's not how it works.
You know, there's no amount ofI don't know.
It's just I don't think thatthat's necessarily the best way

(44:26):
to do things.
If you're somebody who wantslike a one and done type of
situation, like there's no suchthing as a one and done anymore,
everything is a series oftreatments now.
So you know, I think for, yeah,for everybody's who, for
everybody who's listening, likejust know you don't have to have
the craziest, most expensivedevice driven facial to have

(44:47):
results.
Like there are things that youcould do through a regular
custom facial or a europeanfacial and things that you can
do at home to really helpimprove your skin.
And it is important to go andsee a dermatologist too, because
they have knowledge thatestheticians don't.
It's that's that's why you're adoctor and I'm an esthetician.
We both have knowledge, we'reboth passionate about the same

(45:09):
things, but there are certainthings that your dermatologist
can educate you on that maybe anesthetician wouldn't know.
So it's it's about weighingyour options as well yeah,
you're right, I mean there's.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
So there's some pigmentary conditions that are
not sunspots.
They're a hint that somethingelse is going on deeper in the
skin.
So, from a medical perspective,definitely, although I would
argue that dermatologists don'thave an hour to spend with
someone that you do during afacial, where you have hands on
and you can really teach themhow to take care of their skin.
And going back to your pointabout like the compound effect

(45:41):
is, we are working.
It's sort of like if you knowyou walk you said you walk six
to eight miles a day what if youdecided not to walk for a few
months and then you did an ultramarathon?
Like we're not going to do thatwith your skin either.
So it's a compound effect.
It's a little bit of stuffevery day, working with the
physiology of our skin to helpexfoliate it without causing a
burn.

(46:01):
We want to do mild exfoliation,mild stimulation of the
collagen, and give it six toeight weeks to stimulate
collagen and then go back and doanother cycle and it's a slow
process where we work, we walkon the journey together.
So I couldn't agree more withwhat you're saying.
And it's it's a group approach.
It's not one person is good andone person is bad.
We need all of the above.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, my answer is all of the above.
Yeah, same.
I am a firm believer in like it.
Takes a village you know, andas much help as you can get,
take it, why not?
You have the resources and thetools available.
Use them.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
And then tune in with what works for you.
Okay, let's go to the goodtrends, let's do the good trends
.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Okay, what are some of the good things that we love?
I love dermaplaning, I do.
I think it's a great form ofexfoliation.
I love that it helps removelike the little baby hairs as
well, you know.
So you get a cleaner and betterlooking complexion.
When I have a client that sitsin my chair and their face is

(46:59):
freshly dermaplaned chef's kissI could literally kiss you and
hug you like you are my bestfriend, because your makeup
literally looks like it's afilter.
It's so smooth and beautiful,so top.
I love dermaplaning.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Can you explain what dermaplaning is?

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yes, so dermaplaning is an exfoliation process where
pretty much you take a saferazor done by a professional.
We're not using these littleshaving tools that we get from
Forever 21.
I've literally seen them thereand you essentially take a blade

(47:43):
to the skin to help remove thedead skin cells off of the skin.
So a lot of people, like you'llsee in those videos like
TikToks and reels where peopleare dermaplaning and they're
using a really cheap razor,they're not really exfoliating.
They might be exfoliating butthey're not exfoliating as well

(48:04):
as they could if they werehaving a professional do it with
like a surgical blade that youknow really helps get everything
off in one pass, because whatyou want to do is you want to
get it really close to the skinand I feel like with those like
cheaper razors you'reessentially just moving the hair

(48:25):
, you're not really getting muchof the dead skin cells.
So it's a pretty, it's prettymuch a form of drag.
Yeah, there's pretty.
It's pretty much a form of I'msorry, there's pretty much.
It's pretty much a form ofshaving your face, but I don't
even want to say that because itthat's not even the right way
to explain it.
It's literally a form ofexfoliation that helps get rid

(48:49):
of all of the excess dead skincells, as well as whatever
vellus baby hairs you have.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, yeah, I mean to your point about the cheap ones
or the man at home kind of kit,it's just dragging the skin
which is causing irritation andinflammation.
Of kit, it's just dragging theskin which is causing irritation
and inflammation.
So all the more reason justbecause someone offers the
procedure doesn't mean thatthey're good at the procedure,
and this is something that is abig, yeah misunderstanding out

(49:17):
there, because all dermaplanning is not created equal.
All chemical peels are notcreated created equal.
All botox is not created yes sovet out people, just like you
would vet someone to you know,build your house, like, make
sure that they know what they'redoing yeah, it's so important
like I love offering it as aservice to my clients and I

(49:40):
think it is like I said it.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
When you do your makeup afterwards it is so
flawless and smooth andbeautiful.
Literally your skin looks likea filter.
It's amazing.
But you really really have tobe careful.
You know you can nick the skinso easily.
The blades are really reallysharp, especially if you get
good quality blades.
And you want to get goodquality blades because you don't

(50:04):
want to give somebody a.
You know a half effortprocedure.
You want to do good qualityblades because you don't want to
give somebody.
You know a half effortprocedure.
You want to do everything theright way and to the best of
your ability.
So these blades are sharp.
You can nick somebody.
If you go for more than onepass, you're over exfoliating
the skin.
It can cause like sensitivityand redness and sometimes you
know products don't sit well ontop of it after you do too much

(50:27):
exfoliating, so got to do it theright way.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Right, you have to know what you're doing.
Yeah, and we never.
The blades are never reused,everyone.
Yes, they're never reused, ever.
They're tossed, they're in themedical container.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Yeah, If you, if you have a really good blade, you
could use one blade for thewhole face.
But when I first started out Iwas like, oh, a blade is a blade
right?
No, it is not.
I would have to use like threeto four blades on my face when I
would dermaplane myself, whichI don't recommend to anybody

(51:01):
who's listening.
Do not dermaplane at home.
Have a professional do it foryou.
That is important.
But when I would do it formyself and I'm holding my skin
really taut, you know, to makesure I don't nick myself and I'm
doing it the right way I wouldbe like, why is this blade so
dull?
And I would have to change likethree to four blades.
And so, if you can get a reallygood quality one blade for the

(51:22):
whole face, that's important too.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Right, yeah, it's quality.
One blade for the whole face.
That's important too, right?
Yeah, that's so interestingthat you talked about how derma
blading will make makeup appearbetter.
I never thought about that.
I always think it's great for,like, if you're going to do a
chemical peel, it'll be moreeffective, or for skin care.
So when we remove thatinsulative top layer of skin,
then you're without irritation,then the skin care that you
apply will be more effective,because it it's.

(51:48):
You know, you remove theinsulative layer so the skincare
will penetrate better.
But I love your take on thefact that, like, your makeup
will sit better on the skin.
That's really beautiful.
So someone has a big event.
Micro, uh, dermaplaning is issomething that they should do
before the event, absolutely, ifthey go to someone who's not

(52:09):
going to cause irritation yeah,I mean go by a professional, of
course, go by somebody that youtrust, that you know is gonna do
well.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
um, but it's just like I said, it's it's.
Your skin is so smooth, youknow there's no hair to cause
friction between the foundationand the skin.
It lays more flat it it just,like you said, when you do your
skincare at home, like after youdermaplane, like the products
penetrate better into the skinand the makeup will as well.

(52:41):
Your primer sits a lot better,your moisturizer sits a lot
better, so you don't have thatrisk of pilling.
And pilling is you know, whenyou get those little balls from
like the friction of rubbing inyour skincare and that happens
in makeup too.
You know if the products arenot really penetrating into the
skin well enough.
And you're applying foundationand it happens really often

(53:02):
people are like oh, why is it sopatchy?
Why is it flaky?
A lot of it can be because youhave excess dead skin cells that
need to be exfoliated in orderfor the makeup to sit and
actually feel like it's in yourskin and not just sitting on top
of it.
Have you ever gotten yourmakeup done?
Or have you ever done yourmakeup and you feel like gee,
like, why is my makeup sittingon top of my skin but it's not

(53:26):
one with my skin?
A lot of the times it could bebecause you need a good
exfoliant.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
That's a great point.
Okay, I want to jump on yourpoint about pilling.
So what I have found causespilling, and I'm not an
esthetician.
So what I notice is when peopleapply too many products or they
don't wait for the products todry between steps, so I want
them to completely let one layerget soaked in and absorbed in

(53:55):
the skin before they put thenext product on.
That's when I don't see pilling, and also sometimes it's the
products themselves you know,like oil-based versus, you know
that kind of thing.
So what do you?
What do you find?
Causes pilling.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
So I agree with that completely because, um, in the
morning, sometimes when I rush,that happens to me too.
But for cause, I do haveclients that you know.
They'll be sitting in my chairand we'll just be having normal
conversations while I'm doingtheir makeup about this topic
and they'll tell me I'm doingall of the right things, I'm
using all the right products andI am waiting in between each

(54:31):
step and letting it dry downcompletely, and I'm even doing
the patting and rolling motioninstead of rubbing, and I'm like
you know, have you thoughtmaybe it could be because you
know you're not exfoliating?
Maybe try using like a physicalexfoliant, something that has
like jojoba beads or almondshavings in it to help really
get some of those dead skincells off, or dermaplaning,

(54:55):
because that really will takeoff all of those dead skin cells
and then there's really nothingto ball up to you have me
thinking a lot.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
It makes such sense because I often will I see
different complaints than you,right?
Because of just our uniqueroles, and I'll often have
people complain about their skinbeing dry, especially in
Arizona, right?
So I tell them it's dry becauseit needs to be exfoliated,
because nothing's penetratingthat insulative border yeah, the

(55:30):
insulated border.
So I'm thinking the same thingwith the pilling is like none of
the skin care is gettingabsorbed because there's so many
dead, packed skin cell layersover it.
So a lot of times when we thinkwe don't need to exfoliate,
that's exactly what we do.
But we don't need to do it ifwe're getting red and irritated,
right, okay, that's great.
Okay, any other trends that?

(55:50):
you're excited about.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Oh, not that I can think of off the top of my head,
but I will say I stopped.
Sorry, don't come for me, guys,I still they will.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yeah, they will, no matter what.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Yeah, they will.
They'll all come for you, nomatter what.
Yeah, everybody's going to comefor me, no matter what.
You know, I kind of stoppedusing eye cream, not because I
don't believe in it, butanything with a really high
glycerin content works just aswell In my opinion.
I don't know, I stopped usingeye cream I would say about six

(56:30):
months ago, and I just use amoisturizer with a high glycerin
content and I like I swear itworks the same so you're saying
that you use product around youreyes, you just don't use a
dedicated eye cream yeah, I'mthe same I use a face cream that
works for my eyes and my neckbecause I just don't use a
dedicated eye cream.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
I'm the same I use a face cream that works for my
eyes and my neck because I justdon't really feel that we need
to treat those areas differently.
I don't want them agingdifferently, so I treat them
very similarly.
Now, we're not putting it inour eyes, of course.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
And you're very careful with how close you get,
because you know the skin is alot more.
It's thinner, it's thinner,it's thinner, that's, that's the
word I'm looking for.
It's a lot thinner, you know.
So we have to be gentle, like Isaid, even when you're
massaging your eyes.
We're not just going in dryskin, dry hands, but, um, I do.
I do really think, like I see alot of amazing brands, brands

(57:23):
that I personally love, thatcome out with eye creams, and I
do recommend them sometimes tomy clients if I like that or if
I've used it in the past.
But for me personally, I don'tthink I need a dedicated,
specific product just for myeyes.
I can use products that'llsubstitute it as well.

(57:45):
So then again, I'm not havingto do like a 12 step routine and
I can use products that'llsubstitute it as well.
So then again, I'm not havingto do like a 12 step routine and
I can, like, cut it down alittle.
You know, cause it it it'sexpensive in this day and age.
Like skincare products arecrazy expensive now and I don't
feel like it's as accessible topeople as it was back in the day
.
I mean, there was always, youknow, your tiers of skincare,

(58:07):
you're more affordable, and thenyou have a little bit more of
that middle ground and then youhave, like, your really luxury
brands.
And for me personally, yeah,really luxury brands right, but
they do kind of the same thing.
So I don't know, I just I don'tthink I need one dedicated
product for that area.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, I think minimalism andsimplicity and having like one
thing work in many areas isgoing to be key for 2025.
The only thing around the eyesis you want to make sure
something's tested around theeyes, so you don't want to just
take any moisturizer, you wantto make sure it's safe around
the eyes, which a lot ofmoisturizers actually are, you
know.
So I think brands have had tohave neck creams, eye creams

(58:49):
hand creams, you know, but Ithink many good creams can be
used in all of those areas.
Yeah, I agree.
Thank you, giselle.
So okay, before we close outhere, is there anything I didn't
cover that you feel is superpressing?
Pressing, I definitely want tohave you on again, but like oh,
my god, thank you.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Um no, I think we, like, we covered a lot of stuff.
I think we did a great job.
I I can't.
I really wanted to talk aboutthe thing and we did so great,
good, good, yeah, I think.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Um, the other thing that I like about lymphatics,
because I'm super into theinterstitium and the lymphatics
and just going back to grossanatomy in medical school, like
the tissues were stuck on eachother, and then going back to
gross anatomy in medical school,like the tissues were stuck on
each other, and then when I didreal surgery in real life, like
our bodies glide so well.
So if we have an area that'syou know, like just talk about

(59:36):
bags under the eyes, forinstance if there's an area
that's kind of puffy, like doingthe lymphatic massage which I'd
love for you to demonstrate ina video for the audience one day
, because even I don't think Iknow how to do it right, but,
like, what I'll do is just makesure I have tons of water,
because dilution is a solutionto pollution, and I'll do
jumping jacks or a rebounder orsomething where there's like

(59:59):
impact a little bit to kind ofget the lymphatics flowing in
the body.
So there's things we could dooverall, or walking, and
pounding the pavement Right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Oh my gosh, I this is something that I cannot stress
enough Like walking hasliterally changed my life and I
see like the inflammation in mybody has gone down so much just
from walking and people are like, oh, it's not high impact,
you're not really burning thatmany.
Yes, you are, you're burningcalories.
You're getting outside, you'regetting vitamin D, you're

(01:00:28):
getting sun exposure.
You're too much, then exposureisn't good, but you get the
right amount.
It's great for you.
It helps so much with yourmental health as well, and even
I'm not joking when I do my ownlymphatic massages at home after
I started walking, I noticed ahuge difference in how much my
face can de-puff just because Iwent on a walk that day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Right, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
It's the best thing that somebody can do for
themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Especially if you're with a friend or you're doing it
at sunset or your pet.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Listening to a podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Your time flies flies Right, right, okay.
So how can people find you?
Because I know they're allgoing to want to find you.
I hope they do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
I'm on Instagram and TikTok.
My is my first and last name,giselle Jumua.
I don't have like separateaccounts for like personal and
business.
I kind of just have them all inone so you get to see a little
bit into my personal life aswell.
I know people like that.
People ask me oftentimes how Ido my own skincare routine or
how I apply my own makeup, sothat's where you can get it all

(01:01:31):
in one Amazing Thank you, andwe'll have all your links in the
show notes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
So, yeah, thank you so much for being on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Oh, my gosh, thank you for having me.
I had so much fun.
This was great.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Thank you for joining us on Listen to your Skin by
Moon and Skin.
It's an honor to be part ofyour skincare journey and if you
love this episode, make sure tosubscribe.
Leave us a glowing review andshare it with someone who's
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