March 19, 2025 • 38 mins
What if the key to glowing skin isn’t the latest product but understanding your skin’s unique needs?
In this episode of Listen to Your Skin, licensed esthetician Gabby shares how her own struggles with acne sparked her passion for helping others achieve healthy, confident skin.
Gabby breaks down the science of skincare, from why patience matters (think 3–4 months for real results) to the truth about purging and why proper double cleansing (“sweep, then mop”) is a game-changer. She also shares insights on chemical peels, microneedling, and striking the right balance with exfoliation.
Her 80-20 rule says it all: 80% of your skin’s success comes from consistent home care—professional treatments are just the cherry on top.
• ABOUT THE GUEST •
Gabriella Chiarizia is a Licensed Esthetician located in Scottsdale, Arizona, and has been practicing for five years. Her passion in esthetics is to build custom skincare routines for her clients and provide facials that they won’t ever forget. She started Skin Deep Beauty to offer the highest standard of treatments designed to help clients look and feel their best. Having struggled with her own skin for years, she values the opportunity to educate others on how to care for theirs.
Her favorite part of the experience is when clients walk in and immediately feel a sense of relaxation, and when they leave, both their inner and outer selves feel better than when they arrived.
If you’re ready to feel confident in your skin, tune in and follow Gabby on https://www.instagram.com/skindeepbeauty_az
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the
podcast where science meetsnature to celebrate the story of
your skin.
Your skin is a living canvas,ever evolving, deeply personal
and uniquely yours.
Each week, we'll dive into thescience of healthy skin, share
empowering stories and uncovertransformative self-care rituals
.
We're here to help you embraceevery phase of your journey with
(00:22):
confidence and care.
Hi everyone, Welcome back toListen to your Skin podcast by
Moon and Skin.
Confidence and care.
Hi everyone, welcome back toListen to your Skin podcast by
Moon and Skin, and I'm your hostboard certified dermatologist,
Dr Jen Haley, and today I'mexcited to welcome Gabby to the
show.
She's a licensed estheticianbased in Scottsdale, Arizona,
and my esthetician.
After struggling with her ownskin for years, she made it her
(00:44):
mission to educate and empowerher clients with the knowledge
and treatments they need to lookand feel their best.
Her specialty is creatingcustomized skincare routines and
delivering unforgettablefacials that leave both your
inner and outer self glowing.
Today, she's here to share herexpert insights on building an
effective skincare routine, thepower of professional in-office
(01:08):
treatments and the self-carerituals that can make a
difference.
Welcome to the show, Gabby.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hi, nice to have you yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I love having you, so I'm so glad I've been looking
forward to this conversation allweek.
Yes, and I want to first startwith your journey.
So we all have a journey of whywe become or why we do what we
do in life to give back toothers.
What is your personal skincarejourney?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
My journey is a little different than others.
I initially wanted to go intonursing, trying that field and
having that realm of beinginterested in nursing.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
When you started nursing were you in college, and
then you had an aha moment ofthinking that you wanted to do
something for someone's skin.
Obviously you have a nurturingnature.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
No, for sure.
I originally started doingcompetitive gymnastics as a
coach, so I always wanted tohelp people and be in that realm
working with others, and sowhen I thought about doing
skincare I just knew I struggledwith my skin myself.
So after dabbling into thatrealm of nursing, I was like,
(02:17):
well, maybe I want to do theapproach of skincare and work on
how I worked on myself and beable to learn how to provide
that to others.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, it's interesting because I wanted to
be a pediatrician and then Irealized, oh, I just think I
like kids, but I like theproblem-solving of dermatology
and how the skin represents yourinternal health.
But when I look back, I thinkoften we go into areas where we
need the most help and I was areally itchy kid.
I was always itching.
So what did you struggle with?
(02:47):
Like what was your?
What were your dermatology oryour skin conditions that made
you feel compassionate towardsother people that were also
dealing with it?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, so when it came to acne, especially when I was
a teen and struggling with that,there wasn't really too many
options.
It was either, you know, go tothe drugstore and find a random
ingredient or a random productto try on your skin.
So there wasn't really thatmuch advice or knowledge that
(03:17):
you could reach at such a youngage.
So when I got older and I wasstill experiencing acne at that
age from teens to adulthood Iwanted to dabble in that and see
what I could do to fix my skinand different ingredients to
make it helpful for my skin.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
You clearly hacked it .
So, I mean looking at your skinnow.
Nobody would ever know that youhave acne, and I think it's so
important for people to know whoare struggling with it that
just because you have it todaydoesn't mean you have to have it
forever.
So what are some of the typesof acne that you see in your
practice, or maybe that you havepersonally experienced, and
(03:58):
what direction can people go,both at home and in the office?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah.
So I definitely see a widerange of different types of acne
, from teenagers all the way upto women going through menopause
and dealing with hormonal acnein that realm.
So I definitely see differentranges of it.
There's many different ways totreat acne in home and in office
(04:24):
.
My favorite ones are chemicalpeels.
I feel like that's a reallygreat exfoliation, for the skin
Gets really down deep in thepores.
Because there's many differenttypes of acne.
It could be the inflamed,non-inflamed, cystic.
You can see a wide range ofthem.
So for home care-wise, I alwaysrecommend my client keeping up
(04:47):
on the exfoliating property.
Icing at home and especiallylike LED light has become very
popular nowadays to help treatand heal it.
So we're all about healing itand keeping it hydrated, because
a common myth would be you know, we want to strip the barrier,
use as much salicylic ormandelic to just get rid of it,
(05:09):
but that's not getting down tothe root cause.
We want to hydrate and focus onthe skin's health and
microbiome health of it as well.
Right, it's?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
so multifactorial, because I mean acne has multiple
different causes.
They're not just one cause ofacne.
So there's, you know, thechemical peels which help
address the plugging of thepores, and then there's oil
production, which tends tohappen during certain times of
our monthly cycle or during theteenage years, and that kind of
collects the dead skin cells andplugs them even worse and then,
(05:38):
once it bursts under the skin,then you have all that
inflammation and bacteria.
So, depending on the cause ishow you kind of direct your
treatment.
Definitely so, like, how do you?
Um, before we dive into thedifferent types of chemical
peels, like if someone comes inand they're struggling with acne
, I always feel like the firstthing I have to tell them is
like you need to be patient andstick with something right,
(05:58):
because people want to try ahundred things a quick fix.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
yeah, I always recommend, you know, three,
three to four months is like thegood buffer time to be like
you're going to see some goodresults.
But you've got to go throughthe purging phase.
Your skin can get worse beforeit gets better and I think
that's a really hard concept forsome of my clients to gasp is
because they think it's going tobe that quick fix, is because
they think it's going to be thatquick fix.
(06:22):
One peel is going to be thefix-all.
But it's home care and I liketo tell my clients it's an 80-20
rule.
You know you want to have 80%home care and then your 20%
treatment and care, because whatyou do at home is going to be
your biggest change, right?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
It's sort of like if someone comes to you and you're
the dental hygienist cleaningtheir teeth, they still have to
brush their teeth at home.
So if someone is strugglingwith acne, or even if they want
prejuvenation, just say they'rein their 20s or 30s, you know.
Or even if they want anti-agingand a little reversal, like
what's a good at-home skincareroutine that you often recommend
yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So you know the.
You know your bread and butteris going to be a good double
cleanse.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
What's a double cleanse?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, so double cleanse is honestly one of my
favorites.
It's the best way to start yourroutine.
You always start with like anoil-based cleanser to get rid of
all that dead skin, the oil,the buildup of makeup.
That's kind of like yoursweeping, and then you'll go on
with your second cleanse.
That could be any cleanserthat's good for your skin type,
(07:27):
so a glycolic or just acream-based one, and that's
going to be your mopping.
So you want to brush.
You know you want to sweepfirst and then you want to mop
the skin.
So it's a little analogy.
I always like to tell my clientsbecause you got to do both to
get a good slate to your skin.
So you'd always start with thecleanse, go on with your toner
next.
That could be whatever goalyou're trying to reach, and it's
(07:50):
very customizable with that.
And then, of course, serums andthat's what the fun part is
serums.
You can do so many differentmixology, so many different
combinations.
Moisturizer, of course, keepingup with the skin's moisture,
hydration, and then our numberone, sunscreen at the end for
your day-to-day operationsthat's really nice.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, so do you do a double cleanse in the morning or
just at night to get the makeupoff in the environmental?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
yeah, you know I I typically just do a double
cleanse at night time.
You can do it in the morning ifsometimes, if people sweat a
little bit more when they'resleeping or they just feel that
layer on, I personally just liketo do a good first cleanse in
the morning time with either agel or a lactic acid type of
(08:39):
cleanser.
I really get deep in the poresto prep my skin for.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, I think that, like your point about the
cleansing, is so essential,because I think you know we
don't talk about cleanser a lot.
Everybody wants to go to likethe targeted, directed serums.
But, like, having a goodcleanser is so important in
order to prep the skin to absorbthe actives in the products and
if we're not using the rightcleanser, to your point, we can
(09:04):
strip the skin barrier.
So what I don't like people tofeel is that tight feeling on
their skin.
So, like I like a creamycleanser that actually is active
and the way I can tell so, moonand Skin has created this kale
protein cleanser that actuallycleanses the skin.
But when I take tonerafterwards and I sweep the skin,
(09:25):
I don't see much dirt left.
So that's how I know mycleanser is doing a good job
without feeling tight and raw orburning, because we want to
listen to our skin and know it'snot burning afterwards.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
right, yes, yeah, we want to, you know, treat it and
keep it hydrated and protectthat microbiome health.
Because, yeah, exactly, if westrip it, your products and your
serums aren't going to reallydo much for it after?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Right, there's such a fine line where we're walking,
where we're exfoliating andremoving the dead skin cells so
things can penetrate, but yetnot stripping the skin barrier,
so it's raw and irritated andwe're getting a dermatitis.
That's what I'm hearing fromyou, yes, so how do we know that
we're in that spot?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think, just like what you said, if we're feeling
that burning or that dryness andalmost feeling like you're, if
you like open your mouth and youfeel it like tug, that's when I
tell clients I'm like you knowthat might be the best cleanser
for you.
You know you want to keep thathydration.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
You want to feel your skin kind of have that bounce
back to it, and if it's feelingtoo tight or almost flaky, then
that might not be the one foryou.
And how about with exfoliation?
So with exfoliation I, I mean,I've been doing this so long,
right, so for myself, I know myskin.
We we actually have to get tothe point where we look for
advice externally, but then welisten to our own body and how
our own body responds, andlisten to ourselves and
intuitively know what we need.
(10:52):
How do you direct your clientsto determine that they need a
little more exfoliation or alittle exfoliation?
Because with the seasons, withthe seasons of our life, with
our hormonal cycles, like all ofthose needs are going to change
at different geographicenvironments.
Like when I go to California, Ineed more exfoliation than in
Arizona, where it's dry and myskin doesn't tolerate it.
(11:13):
So how do you guide people asfar as when to exfoliate, like
what's a good rule?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I always like to go in and feel the skin because I
think that's how you're going toknow what's best for your
clients is feeling the skin,what it feels like and what it
looks like.
Sometimes if they have thatbuildup of texture on, then I
would like to recommend aphysical exfoliant.
I could have some differentbeads or different properties in
(11:40):
there to give a good scrub,different properties in there to
give a good scrub.
But that also goes back to ouracne clients, because if you
have that inflamed acne youdon't want to do a scrub on the
skin Because that's just goingto irritate it, spread more
bacteria.
So then you would go in with adifferent type of exfoliant,
(12:01):
like a chemical.
I'd mainly go with chemical,for sure for the inflamed acne.
But yeah, I guess just feelingthe skin and seeing the texture
and what would be a best one forthem.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So you're, you're describing feeling the skin and
knowing the texture, and what Ihear from people a lot is
they're like I'm so dry, I'm sodry, my skin's so dry, and I
think it's often misunderstoodthat when your skin is dry, the
moisturizer is not going topenetrate until you exfoliate
off those dead skin cells,because the dead skin cells are
like almost insulating yourhealthy skin below from
(12:31):
absorbing any moisturizer.
So what you're saying is likeexfoliate first, but not to the
point of irritation.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Exactly, a good key would be to say like two to
three times a week kind of gotto feel your skin to see what it
feels like, because if you'redoing too much exfoliation, like
we said, you can over strip itand you're going to feel that
like irritation and sometimesyou can get more acne from that
if you're over stripping andyou're over exfoliating.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Okay, I want to go back to the purging.
Like, how do you define purging?
The purging, like, how do youdefine purging?
Because it's a word that we useto kind of explain to people
that you know, when I squeeze myskin in the deeper layers,
there's pimples already thereand we need to give it a good
two to three months to kind ofsurface to the top.
But I think dermatologistsoverall I'm not one of them, but
they don't like to hear theword purge because it's it's not
(13:19):
actually a purge but it's sortof a resurfacing.
So how do you explain to yourclients, like, what, what to
expect with the purging?
Because it's not like the acneis getting worse from your
treatment, it's just coming tothe surface quicker than it
would have anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Exactly and I actually like that.
You say that's resurfacing,because that's really what it's
coming coming to the surfaceBecause we're doing those
chemical exfoliation, you'respeeding up the cellular
turnover of the skin.
So what's trapped underneaththe skin and was kind of hidden
will come back to the surfacebecause we're exfoliating and
we're speeding up that cellularturnover in the skin.
(13:54):
So it's coming up and that'sthe frustrating part, because
it's almost like oh, my skin'slooking worse, but it's coming
to the surface faster so we canheal it and treat it yeah, so
the next cycle will be clear andthat's the biggest mistake I
see.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Tell me, if you see this, where people will.
They'll get into the routineand be really committed for a
couple weeks and then they'repurging.
You know the purging ishappening, or the surfacing, as
you mentioned, is coming andtheir acne might get a little
bit worse because you're turningover skin cells quicker so
you're making those pimples thatwould have come up anyway.
All come up kind of quickly andthen they want to switch skin
(14:32):
care, and confused angry skin isa result of too many products.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yes, so a lot of clients will try those new
products and feel that they're,you know, like, oh, it's not
working, it's getting worse.
But it's a good rule of thumbthat you've got to at least do a
month, try out your products,let it absorb into your skin and
do its job first before youcompletely give up on it,
(14:58):
because sometimes if you'reusing too high of an ingredient
or something that doesn't agreewith your skin, it'll break out
everywhere in a way.
So you kind of get that likealmost allergy and reactive um
Resolve if you're using too muchtoo fast.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And then you get to the point where everything's
irritating you right?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, if you're trying too many things all at
once and your skin's just goingto freak out.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Okay, so morning cleanse, night double cleanse.
Morning, vitamin C, then atargeted serum, then a
moisturizer sunscreen, yes.
Night what are we doing afterour double cleanse at night?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, so at nighttime we want to heal the skin.
It's always morning time, likewe said with the vitamin C and
sunscreen, we want to protect it.
Nighttime is personally myfavorite time is when we're
getting to heal it and protectit.
So nighttime I always like togo in with a little bit more
thicker ingredients.
So a little bit thickermoisturizer, a oil-based, to
(16:06):
really lock in that hydration.
You can pretty much do the sameserums and toner that you would
do in the morning time, but Iwould add more hydration into it
, kind of really lock it all inin there yeah, well, it's
interesting because the sciencesupports this too.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So it we have our circadian clock and in the
morning we want to supportprotection and then at night,
help with the cellular renewaland regeneration and we actually
have more trans epidermal waterloss, where we're losing more
hydration at night.
So that's exactly when you wantto like, lock it in.
It's like the women in the1950s with all the cold cream
(16:37):
all over their face, like that'swhat we're that what we?
They had it right back then,except we have better products
now that are more elegantlyformulated.
Okay, so that's at home andeveryone, no matter how often
they come to see you, you wantthem to be doing something at
home to support their treatmentwith you.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yes, 100%, because, like I said, the 80-20 rule,
that's an always good rule ofthumb.
I would rather my clients be ona great home care regimen than
come and see me in office.
If that's in their budget, Iwould love for them to have the
home care set up because, likewe said, if you're going to go
to the dentist, get your teethcleaned and then not brush it at
(17:13):
home, what's going to happenSounds crazy.
Yeah, exactly Right.
So home care is going to besuper huge.
If you want to take extra stepsand do like a face mask or more
exfoliation, or add in that LEDlight, different modalities,
you can definitely do that andthat's just going to enhance
(17:35):
your results and further enhanceyour progress into your skin.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Okay, so it probably will expedite it.
So when somebody's doing atargeted treatment, you'll have
them come in a little bit moreoften, and then maintenance is a
little bit different.
Expand on that.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, so it's depending on how quick clients
want to get their skincare fixedand what their goals are.
You know, I have a lot ofclients that come in that are
either getting married or have abig event coming in, so they
want to target their skincarefaster.
So we would go in like everytwo weeks rather than once a
month to really get that fastpaced results, and then after
(18:10):
we'll go into the maintenancerealm and maybe that's once a
month or, you know, every othermonth, doing a facial and then
microneedling or something likethat to enhance it for their
goals.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Let's talk about the chemical peels a little bit more
and then we'll dive into thefacial and the microneedling,
like what procedures people cando before an event, versus to
kind of stimulate collagen ortreat acne.
So when you're doing chemicalpeels which I think chemical
peels don't get the attentionthey deserve, because they are
really really effective athelping people with brown spots,
(18:47):
with fine lines and wrinkles,with acne.
But you know we have lasers outnowadays that are like a more
sexy kind of like therapy, yeah,but yet chemical peels are more
and I find them almost to be aseffective, except for broken
blood vessels.
I find them as effective whenthey're done correctly by
someone who knows what they'redoing.
(19:08):
So if someone comes in and theywant a chemical peel or a
series of chemical peels, how doyou decide which chemical?
I hate the word chemical.
I always think we need to havea better word for these acids
than chemical.
But like what?
How do you decide which acid touse, whether it's mandelic or
salicylic or glycolic?
How do you decide which acid touse for their chemical peel,
(19:29):
based on their targetedtreatment?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
yeah, so there's a variety of different peels that
we can use, which is greatbecause we have options, because
, um, it can be for pigmentation.
If they want to target thatmore, I guess, going down to
what they want to target moreand particularly, you would go
in with.
I like to my approach.
(19:53):
I like to go a little bit onthe lighter side to get started
and then go into the heavierpeels, because you don't know
how the skin is going to reactto their first time chemical
peel.
So you want to go a little biton the lighter side.
That could be a lower percentof mandelic or lactic acid and
then you can bump it up and, youknow, use some with TCA or any
other higher ingredient acidthat you can have onto the skin.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You keep mentioning mandelic acid.
It seems to be a favorite.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh it is, I skin.
You keep mentioning mandelicacid.
It seems to be a favorite.
Oh it is, I know.
I always mention mandelicbecause that's just a very
popular one.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's from almonds.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yes, it's an almond-derived ingredient which
is great for giving oxygen tothe pores.
It really goes down deep intothere, so that's a good one.
Salicylic, I would say that'sgoing to be your acne fighter,
for the non-inflamed acne, sothose little bumps that you can
get now and then.
So if I have a client coming inand you know they struggle a
(20:48):
little bit with acne, but nottoo much, they just get kind of
that texture.
I like to do some salicylicbecause that's going to be a
little bit on the lighter sidebut also give you that good
results as well.
But when it comes to likepigmentation, adding in some
like tca, um chemical, that'susually one of my favorites for
pigment and rejuvenating foranti-aging I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay, I love that so much and I like that you
mentioned starting out low, likestart low, go, because we live
in a blended world where, likeI'm part Spanish, I'm part Irish
, so I have red, sensitive skinand hyperpigmentation.
And for anyone listening, what Ioften see and I don't know if
you see this too is that peoplewill come in and they wait maybe
(21:33):
a little bit too long, and thenthey want quick results and
they go go really hard.
But if sort of you want to lookat how you heal with a scratch,
so when we get a scratch or aburn or a pimple, does it heal
with a pink scar or does it healwith a brown scar?
And if you go too aggressivewith chemical peels or laser or
(21:54):
microneedling or really anythingin the office, you might get
post-inflammatory erythema orpost-inflammatory
hyperpigmentation, which isbasically that type of scarring
that you end up getting afterinflammation.
So by starting slow and low,you're going to give the skin a
chance to like accommodate,basically, and then you can go a
(22:15):
little bit deeper once ithardens, as opposed to going too
much and then gettinghyperpigmentation that's going
to last six to eight months.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Definitely, and that also goes back to home care.
I wouldn't ever do anaggressive peel on someone if
they're not doing the home care,because that's going to be your
most important part.
So if you're doing thisaggressive peel and you're
coming home and just slabbinganything on your face, you're
not going to get those resultsand the peel is probably not
going to do as good of a job asit could have been if you're
(22:43):
using the right ingredients andgiving that skin a prep and, um,
you know heal it afterwards.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So how do you like to prep people before a chem peel?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, so definitely for like their first time
appointment.
I like to go in with a glycolictoner.
That kind of preps the skin andyou can see if they get
reactive.
So oftentimes if the skin isready for a peel and you put
that toner on top, it'll be fine.
You won't get any itchiness ortingliness, maybe like a one out
(23:16):
of five, but if you're feelinglike that three, that can mean
the skin's compromised, thebarrier is a little irritated.
So then I'd be more weary aboutdoing a deeper chemical peel if
their skin isn't technicallyready for it that's a really
good test.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I've never heard that before.
I like that a lot.
Yeah, how about?
How do you feel about retinolbefore peels?
Because I I hear you knowpeople like to be dogmatic on
either way.
You know like, no, don't do itbecause it will make the peel go
deeper, and I was alwaystrained to do retinoids before
because it removes the dead skincells and it makes the chemical
peel more even in penetration,and I could see both sides of
(23:55):
the argument, you know.
So like what are your thoughtson that?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You know I'm not opposed to it as well.
I think it could be a reallygood prep, as you say, for the
skin.
I only just like to talk lines,maybe one to two days to give
your skin a little bit of abreak so it doesn't get as
irritated and the chemicals kindof don't mix together from like
the leftover retinol on theskin.
So, like I said, I'm notopposed to it as well.
(24:19):
I would say, just two daysbefore, off a retinol and then
you're good to go that's okay,and then after.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So I have a feeling that after this podcast episode,
people are going to be like Iwant a chemical peel right.
so just to give them an idea ofwhat to expect, with sort of a
lunchtime peel or you know, apeel that's a freshening peel,
what I always okay, I tellpeople.
Tell me if I'm wrong here,because this is how my skin
reacts and how I've seenpatients over the years Like it
(24:46):
almost feels like hey, gabby,there's food on your face, like
there's that light flaking, butyou're not exfoliating in sheets
with, like a light chemicalpeel.
So, what do you usually tellpeople like as far as the pre,
the pre, and then what to expectthat night, what not to do, and
then when can they return totheir normal skincare routine
afterwards?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah.
So I would say the prep.
I would give them advice onkeeping the skin hydrated and
healthy before you come in, soyou don't want to come in with
your skin super dry or irritatedfrom different products,
especially not sunburned orirritated in that realm.
Afterwards I always just prepthem.
You can get some drynessbecause we are stimulating the
(25:28):
cell turnover of the skin, soyou can experience some of that
dryness and flakiness.
But it's all about how youapply your products on
afterwards.
So keeping up the moisturizerand sunscreen because that's
going to be number one, becauseour skin can get sensitized
after a peel, so you want toprotect it with the sunscreen
barrier so it's not gettingirritated and you're losing all
(25:53):
that progress you made with thepeel Right.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
So we're basically trying to exfoliate off the top
layer of the skin at a morerapid rate than it would
exfoliate itself, and that sendssignals down to the stem cells
at the base of the epidermis tokind of like hey, let's rev up
and make fresh skin cells andthat's how we get like more cell
renewal.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, definitely, and that's definitely what people
are looking for when they'recoming to peels is they want
that glow.
You know they want to feeltheir skin to be glowy and soft
and supple.
So that's peels are in thatrealm, are going to be very good
for that.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Do you find that using a red light therapy or LED
at home helps enhance healing?
Have you played with that?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, so I personally love to do it in my routine.
I think consistency is key whenit comes to those products.
It's not going to be a one-timefix-all, which some people like
to think that you know whenthey're putting it on Like
you're going to get thoseamazing benefits, but the
consistency in the long term isreally going to give you that
results-driven with the LEDdevices.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I like them too .
I have a red light panel and Ido it in the morning.
But there's a sweet spot where,if you do just enough, you can
stimulate the mitochondria inthe fibroblasts to stimulate
more collagen, and if you do toomuch you actually cause too
many reactive oxygen specieswhere it kind of can damage your
skin.
I could definitely say thatRight and same with, I think,
(27:19):
muscles and stuff too.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
But your husband would know that.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
He knows all about that.
Okay, so besides chemical peelslike what other?
What other procedures arereally common in your practice
that you think give good results?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah.
So another one that I love andI swear by is microneedling.
I think that is amazing forstimulating the collagen
reproduction of the skin.
Especially my clients postpeels when it comes to acne
because they'll get thatscarring.
So once they're clear and theydon't have any more active acne,
(27:52):
they're sometimes left overwith pigmentation of the redness
and sometimes it was likedeeper scars of the redness and
sometimes it was like deeperscars and sometimes they would
look at their skin and be like,oh, acne's gone, but it still
doesn't look how I want it tolook.
It still has that redness to it.
So that's when we would go onwith a microneedling and I swear
(28:14):
, like my clients swear by it.
It just looks so much betterafter they're done with their
acne peels is to go on with themicroneedling.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So you like the chemical peels more for treating
active acne and then themicroneedling to help with any
of the scarring?
Yes, I agree.
Yes, yeah, I agree.
Okay, can you explain whatmicroneedling is and what people
can expect?
And do you numb beforehand?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah.
So I love that you brought upnumbing, because I actually have
a few clients that actually gowithout numbing.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I don't know if I could.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, and you know I was very surprised with that at
first and you know, some of themwere just like let's try it.
And I have clients that fallasleep during microneedling,
that's you.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That's because of you .
Speaker 2 (28:52):
They love it.
It's just like the vibration ofit and the relaxation of it.
They don't mind it at all.
But, um, yeah, no.
So with microneedling I alwayslike to say we're creating those
controlled wounds into the skin.
We're going down with theneedles in different depths, um
to go into the cells and tostimulate that collagen
(29:14):
reproduction and especially ifwe have pigment or sc, it's
going to break down those cellslike clusters almost, and to
give that glow and thathydration back to the skin.
Yeah, and so when we like to doit, I always like to do a
dermaplane before, and thatvaries from different
(29:34):
estheticians, but I always liketo prep the skin with a
dermaplane.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
What's that Explain the dermaplane?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah.
So dermaplane, honestly, oh, Ialways say microneal is my
favorite, but dermaplane isprobably my favorite as well.
So you're taking thatmedical-grade scalpel to remove
any dead skin, that peach, fuzz,that vellus hair, to really
give a good slate to the skin.
So that's like your prep.
So we'll go in with that, do aquick dermaplane, get all that
dead skin, buildup of hair, allof that off first.
(30:03):
Then we'll put on the numbingso it can really absorb a lot
better.
So a lot of my clients say thatwhen we dermaplane first and
then numb, they feel a lot morenumb, so we don't have that
layer on as well.
And then, yeah, we'll go inwith the needling and it will
last about an hour.
And then I always like tofinish it with some led light,
(30:26):
either red light or blue light,to help speed up that healing
process that's great.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, I feel like red light is better for healing and
blue light's great for acne.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yes, yeah, especially if I'm going with my acne peels
, then I will end it with bluelight because that's going to
help kill the bacteria a littlebit more.
And then, for my clientsworking on anti-aging or pigment
, I like to throw in with thered.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's amazing.
I have not heard anyone dodermaplaning before
microneedling and I love thattip.
I had a guest on who was amakeup artist and she talked
about how doing dermaplaningmakes the makeup stay on better,
so that makes really good sense.
I'm going to have to schedulewith you to do some dermaplaning
.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I love dermaplaning.
I was even before coming intoday.
I was like, oh, I should havedermaplaning to prep my skin for
my makeup because, like yousaid, that's such a great prep
for the skin is to do adermaplaning Right, just going
to get a smooth surface.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Okay, so do you?
Hmm, okay, so with chemicalpeels, how often do you
recommend?
Just say I'm 40 years old andI'm noticing some fine lines and
wrinkles around my eyes and I'mnot really happy with my
texture.
I have a little bit of.
I live in Arizona, so I have alittle bit of pigment on my skin
, but nothing really severe.
Yet I don't have acne.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
How would you come up with a plan?
Yeah, oh, that's so fun becauseI love to create plans, because
there's so many different waysthat you can incorporate
different treatments into it.
I would say with your goals howfast you want to get there.
That's going to be number oneBecause if you're okay with it
taking its time, taking aprogress, I like to do once a
month.
But for those clients out, youknow they're like I'm ready to
(32:06):
really get a kickstart to myroutine.
I do every two weeks Coming.
In that way we get to see theskin faster, to see how the
peels incorporate to their skinand how they react to it yeah,
okay, but we also have to workwith the skin physiology.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So I agree, like coming in more than once every
two weeks, you're workingagainst the skin physiology
because you're not giving it achance to actually heal and
produce collagen.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yes, yeah, you want to see how it reacts.
Because that's why I do starton the lighter side, because
every skin is different, everyreaction is different.
You know, I could do the samepeel on 20 different people and
they're all going to get adifferent result and look
different.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
You know it's going to be the same ingredients but
everybody's skin is going to bedifferent and take to it at a
different pace I think thatthat's such a key point, because
we see all these things onlineand we think like, oh, they did
this and they got that result.
That has to be me or mysister's a hair hairstylist and
she has people come in and say Iwant this and she's like, but
(33:08):
your hair won't do that right,like our skin isn't going to
respond to the same treatment inthe same way either.
And, gosh, it seems likethere's so many great options
out there and it really soundslike you need to go to someone
who knows skin, is going to workwith you and be patient and
walk that journey over time.
And what other?
So what other treatments beforewe close out do you like in the
(33:30):
office?
Do you do microdermabrasion,anything like that?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
so I don't do microdermabrasion um that one.
You know, eventually I'm goingto bring in some hydrafacial to
do that.
But um microderm, uh, it wasnever very popular into my
practice, but we like to dodifferent peels and then I also
like to do um lashes, uh tintingand brow tinting.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
As you know, I like to do lash tinting um so, for
those of you listening, I'msuper lazy and I have eyeliner
tattoo and I have Gabby do myeyelash tinting and I was
telling another friend of minethat you can get your eyelashes
tinted and your eyebrows tinted.
She's like what?
I had no idea.
So thank you for reminding me.
(34:16):
So let's talk about that andhow it can be, how long it lasts
, what the process is and how itjust it's like accentuating
your asset.
It's not changing who you are.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah.
So lash and brow tinting is areally great add-on service.
It just gives you that littlepop.
When it comes to the lashes andbrows, it can be like three to
four weeks to get a good color.
I actually used to domicroblading a long time ago,
kind of dabbled in everything,and when I did that I just
noticed people like the morenatural side of brows.
(34:51):
So adding in that tinting givesit that softer look to fade
over time.
Especially with lashes as well,you can give that really nice
pop of black color to look likeyou're wearing mascara.
So very low maintenance effectonto that.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Right, you can swim and everything and your
eyelashes look like they havemascara and I love the color you
picked because it does.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
it does pop, yes yeah , you really want to look at the
um, the color of either thehair on on your head or the brow
color as well.
You know you want to complementthe features that people
already have and then enhancethat right, and that's the whole
thing.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
It's like we don't want to become anyone else.
We just want to enhance who weare naturally.
Um, I love having you on.
Thank you for coming today.
Thank you so much, I had a goodtime.
If you have like threetakeaways, what are three
takeaways that you can give thelisteners and, uh, just everyone
who wants to be their best selfand show up authentically, like
(35:51):
from your experience and yourworld that people could start
incorporating easily every day.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, I mean always be you, always be confident in
who you are, Do what's right foryourself, because there's only
one of you.
You know there's going to bemillions of other people, but
enjoy what you do in your life.
And I would say, enjoy thelittle things in life.
So you know, even if you dohave acne or if you have that
(36:19):
insecurity of anything, just bewho you are and enjoy what you
have in life.
And you know there's somebodyfor everybody.
So if you want to target skincare, do that.
If you want to do otherenhancements, do whatever makes
you feel better.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Right, you know, I feel like I feel so lucky, and
you probably see this too,because I've seen very famous
people naked, right, when yousee people without their clothes
on, like we're really strippedof a lot, and I see the
vulnerable side of people,whether working at the US
Capitol or working in SouthernCalifornia, right, and at the
end of the day, everybody hassomething that they're insecure
(36:57):
about and no one is perfect.
And it was cool because I wasin the car with my kids telling
them this maybe 10 years ago,when they were 8, 7, and 9 or
something, and I said you guys,you just have to realize no one
is perfect.
Everyone has something thatthey're insecure about.
And my son, my wise little soulin the backseat, he goes what
if everyone's perfect?
(37:17):
It's like I like that better.
Everyone is perfect just howthey are.
So, just how you said, show upas you are.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Show up as you are, and that's you know.
Your authentic self is going tobe your best self, Exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
But in the meantime you have an esthetician who's
here to help you Exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I'm like well, if you have a little insecurity, we
can target that and you knowit'll make it work.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Thank you, Gabby.
How do people find you?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, so a few different ways.
My Instagram handle is alwaysthe most popular, so it would be
skindeepbeauty underscore AZ,or skindeepbeauty underscore AZ,
or on my website as well, samename.
And yeah, I'm always open toconsultations and just chatting.
This is my passion, this iswhat I love to do, so any
questions I'm always up for.
Some people are like oh, Idon't want to bother you, I
(38:06):
don't want to ask too manyquestions, but I'm like lay it
all out.
You know, give me a whole listof questions.
I can just talk to you aboutskincare and I'll be happy to do
it.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Thank you bye, gabby, thank you.
Thank you for joining us onlisten to your skin by moon and
skin.
It's an honor to be part ofyour skincare journey and if you
love this episode, make sure tosubscribe.
Leave us a glowing review andshare it with someone who's
passionate about their skincarejourney, and please connect with
us on social to ask yourquestions, which will drive
(38:34):
future educational episodes.
Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the
podcast where science meetsnature to celebrate the story of
your skin.
Your skin is a living canvas,ever evolving, deeply personal
and uniquely yours.
Each week, we'll dive into thescience of healthy skin, share
empowering stories and uncovertransformative self-care rituals
.
We're here to help you embraceevery phase of your journey with
(00:22):
confidence and care.
Hi everyone, Welcome back toListen to your Skin podcast by
Moon and Skin.
Confidence and care.
Hi everyone, welcome back toListen to your Skin podcast by
Moon and Skin, and I'm your hostboard certified dermatologist,
Dr Jen Haley, and today I'mexcited to welcome Gabby to the
show.
She's a licensed estheticianbased in Scottsdale, Arizona,
and my esthetician.
After struggling with her ownskin for years, she made it her
(00:44):
mission to educate and empowerher clients with the knowledge
and treatments they need to lookand feel their best.
Her specialty is creatingcustomized skincare routines and
delivering unforgettablefacials that leave both your
inner and outer self glowing.
Today, she's here to share herexpert insights on building an
effective skincare routine, thepower of professional in-office
(01:08):
treatments and the self-carerituals that can make a
difference.
Welcome to the show, Gabby.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hi, nice to have you yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I love having you, so I'm so glad I've been looking
forward to this conversation allweek.
Yes, and I want to first startwith your journey.
So we all have a journey of whywe become or why we do what we
do in life to give back toothers.
What is your personal skincarejourney?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
My journey is a little different than others.
I initially wanted to go intonursing, trying that field and
having that realm of beinginterested in nursing.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
When you started nursing were you in college, and
then you had an aha moment ofthinking that you wanted to do
something for someone's skin.
Obviously you have a nurturingnature.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
No, for sure.
I originally started doingcompetitive gymnastics as a
coach, so I always wanted tohelp people and be in that realm
working with others, and sowhen I thought about doing
skincare I just knew I struggledwith my skin myself.
So after dabbling into thatrealm of nursing, I was like,
(02:17):
well, maybe I want to do theapproach of skincare and work on
how I worked on myself and beable to learn how to provide
that to others.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, it's interesting because I wanted to
be a pediatrician and then Irealized, oh, I just think I
like kids, but I like theproblem-solving of dermatology
and how the skin represents yourinternal health.
But when I look back, I thinkoften we go into areas where we
need the most help and I was areally itchy kid.
I was always itching.
So what did you struggle with?
(02:47):
Like what was your?
What were your dermatology oryour skin conditions that made
you feel compassionate towardsother people that were also
dealing with it?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, so when it came to acne, especially when I was
a teen and struggling with that,there wasn't really too many
options.
It was either, you know, go tothe drugstore and find a random
ingredient or a random productto try on your skin.
So there wasn't really thatmuch advice or knowledge that
(03:17):
you could reach at such a youngage.
So when I got older and I wasstill experiencing acne at that
age from teens to adulthood Iwanted to dabble in that and see
what I could do to fix my skinand different ingredients to
make it helpful for my skin.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
You clearly hacked it .
So, I mean looking at your skinnow.
Nobody would ever know that youhave acne, and I think it's so
important for people to know whoare struggling with it that
just because you have it todaydoesn't mean you have to have it
forever.
So what are some of the typesof acne that you see in your
practice, or maybe that you havepersonally experienced, and
(03:58):
what direction can people go,both at home and in the office?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah.
So I definitely see a widerange of different types of acne
, from teenagers all the way upto women going through menopause
and dealing with hormonal acnein that realm.
So I definitely see differentranges of it.
There's many different ways totreat acne in home and in office
(04:24):
.
My favorite ones are chemicalpeels.
I feel like that's a reallygreat exfoliation, for the skin
Gets really down deep in thepores.
Because there's many differenttypes of acne.
It could be the inflamed,non-inflamed, cystic.
You can see a wide range ofthem.
So for home care-wise, I alwaysrecommend my client keeping up
(04:47):
on the exfoliating property.
Icing at home and especiallylike LED light has become very
popular nowadays to help treatand heal it.
So we're all about healing itand keeping it hydrated, because
a common myth would be you know, we want to strip the barrier,
use as much salicylic ormandelic to just get rid of it,
(05:09):
but that's not getting down tothe root cause.
We want to hydrate and focus onthe skin's health and
microbiome health of it as well.
Right, it's?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
so multifactorial, because I mean acne has multiple
different causes.
They're not just one cause ofacne.
So there's, you know, thechemical peels which help
address the plugging of thepores, and then there's oil
production, which tends tohappen during certain times of
our monthly cycle or during theteenage years, and that kind of
collects the dead skin cells andplugs them even worse and then,
(05:38):
once it bursts under the skin,then you have all that
inflammation and bacteria.
So, depending on the cause ishow you kind of direct your
treatment.
Definitely so, like, how do you?
Um, before we dive into thedifferent types of chemical
peels, like if someone comes inand they're struggling with acne
, I always feel like the firstthing I have to tell them is
like you need to be patient andstick with something right,
(05:58):
because people want to try ahundred things a quick fix.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
yeah, I always recommend, you know, three,
three to four months is like thegood buffer time to be like
you're going to see some goodresults.
But you've got to go throughthe purging phase.
Your skin can get worse beforeit gets better and I think
that's a really hard concept forsome of my clients to gasp is
because they think it's going tobe that quick fix, is because
they think it's going to be thatquick fix.
(06:22):
One peel is going to be thefix-all.
But it's home care and I liketo tell my clients it's an 80-20
rule.
You know you want to have 80%home care and then your 20%
treatment and care, because whatyou do at home is going to be
your biggest change, right?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
It's sort of like if someone comes to you and you're
the dental hygienist cleaningtheir teeth, they still have to
brush their teeth at home.
So if someone is strugglingwith acne, or even if they want
prejuvenation, just say they'rein their 20s or 30s, you know.
Or even if they want anti-agingand a little reversal, like
what's a good at-home skincareroutine that you often recommend
yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So you know the.
You know your bread and butteris going to be a good double
cleanse.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
What's a double cleanse?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, so double cleanse is honestly one of my
favorites.
It's the best way to start yourroutine.
You always start with like anoil-based cleanser to get rid of
all that dead skin, the oil,the buildup of makeup.
That's kind of like yoursweeping, and then you'll go on
with your second cleanse.
That could be any cleanserthat's good for your skin type,
(07:27):
so a glycolic or just acream-based one, and that's
going to be your mopping.
So you want to brush.
You know you want to sweepfirst and then you want to mop
the skin.
So it's a little analogy.
I always like to tell my clientsbecause you got to do both to
get a good slate to your skin.
So you'd always start with thecleanse, go on with your toner
next.
That could be whatever goalyou're trying to reach, and it's
(07:50):
very customizable with that.
And then, of course, serums andthat's what the fun part is
serums.
You can do so many differentmixology, so many different
combinations.
Moisturizer, of course, keepingup with the skin's moisture,
hydration, and then our numberone, sunscreen at the end for
your day-to-day operationsthat's really nice.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, so do you do a double cleanse in the morning or
just at night to get the makeupoff in the environmental?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
yeah, you know I I typically just do a double
cleanse at night time.
You can do it in the morning ifsometimes, if people sweat a
little bit more when they'resleeping or they just feel that
layer on, I personally just liketo do a good first cleanse in
the morning time with either agel or a lactic acid type of
(08:39):
cleanser.
I really get deep in the poresto prep my skin for.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, I think that, like your point about the
cleansing, is so essential,because I think you know we
don't talk about cleanser a lot.
Everybody wants to go to likethe targeted, directed serums.
But, like, having a goodcleanser is so important in
order to prep the skin to absorbthe actives in the products and
if we're not using the rightcleanser, to your point, we can
(09:04):
strip the skin barrier.
So what I don't like people tofeel is that tight feeling on
their skin.
So, like I like a creamycleanser that actually is active
and the way I can tell so, moonand Skin has created this kale
protein cleanser that actuallycleanses the skin.
But when I take tonerafterwards and I sweep the skin,
(09:25):
I don't see much dirt left.
So that's how I know mycleanser is doing a good job
without feeling tight and raw orburning, because we want to
listen to our skin and know it'snot burning afterwards.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
right, yes, yeah, we want to, you know, treat it and
keep it hydrated and protectthat microbiome health.
Because, yeah, exactly, if westrip it, your products and your
serums aren't going to reallydo much for it after?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Right, there's such a fine line where we're walking,
where we're exfoliating andremoving the dead skin cells so
things can penetrate, but yetnot stripping the skin barrier,
so it's raw and irritated andwe're getting a dermatitis.
That's what I'm hearing fromyou, yes, so how do we know that
we're in that spot?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think, just like what you said, if we're feeling
that burning or that dryness andalmost feeling like you're, if
you like open your mouth and youfeel it like tug, that's when I
tell clients I'm like you knowthat might be the best cleanser
for you.
You know you want to keep thathydration.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
You want to feel your skin kind of have that bounce
back to it, and if it's feelingtoo tight or almost flaky, then
that might not be the one foryou.
And how about with exfoliation?
So with exfoliation I, I mean,I've been doing this so long,
right, so for myself, I know myskin.
We we actually have to get tothe point where we look for
advice externally, but then welisten to our own body and how
our own body responds, andlisten to ourselves and
intuitively know what we need.
(10:52):
How do you direct your clientsto determine that they need a
little more exfoliation or alittle exfoliation?
Because with the seasons, withthe seasons of our life, with
our hormonal cycles, like all ofthose needs are going to change
at different geographicenvironments.
Like when I go to California, Ineed more exfoliation than in
Arizona, where it's dry and myskin doesn't tolerate it.
(11:13):
So how do you guide people asfar as when to exfoliate, like
what's a good rule?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I always like to go in and feel the skin because I
think that's how you're going toknow what's best for your
clients is feeling the skin,what it feels like and what it
looks like.
Sometimes if they have thatbuildup of texture on, then I
would like to recommend aphysical exfoliant.
I could have some differentbeads or different properties in
(11:40):
there to give a good scrub,different properties in there to
give a good scrub.
But that also goes back to ouracne clients, because if you
have that inflamed acne youdon't want to do a scrub on the
skin Because that's just goingto irritate it, spread more
bacteria.
So then you would go in with adifferent type of exfoliant,
(12:01):
like a chemical.
I'd mainly go with chemical,for sure for the inflamed acne.
But yeah, I guess just feelingthe skin and seeing the texture
and what would be a best one forthem.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So you're, you're describing feeling the skin and
knowing the texture, and what Ihear from people a lot is
they're like I'm so dry, I'm sodry, my skin's so dry, and I
think it's often misunderstoodthat when your skin is dry, the
moisturizer is not going topenetrate until you exfoliate
off those dead skin cells,because the dead skin cells are
like almost insulating yourhealthy skin below from
(12:31):
absorbing any moisturizer.
So what you're saying is likeexfoliate first, but not to the
point of irritation.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Exactly, a good key would be to say like two to
three times a week kind of gotto feel your skin to see what it
feels like, because if you'redoing too much exfoliation, like
we said, you can over strip itand you're going to feel that
like irritation and sometimesyou can get more acne from that
if you're over stripping andyou're over exfoliating.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Okay, I want to go back to the purging.
Like, how do you define purging?
The purging, like, how do youdefine purging?
Because it's a word that we useto kind of explain to people
that you know, when I squeeze myskin in the deeper layers,
there's pimples already thereand we need to give it a good
two to three months to kind ofsurface to the top.
But I think dermatologistsoverall I'm not one of them, but
they don't like to hear theword purge because it's it's not
(13:19):
actually a purge but it's sortof a resurfacing.
So how do you explain to yourclients, like, what, what to
expect with the purging?
Because it's not like the acneis getting worse from your
treatment, it's just coming tothe surface quicker than it
would have anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Exactly and I actually like that.
You say that's resurfacing,because that's really what it's
coming coming to the surfaceBecause we're doing those
chemical exfoliation, you'respeeding up the cellular
turnover of the skin.
So what's trapped underneaththe skin and was kind of hidden
will come back to the surfacebecause we're exfoliating and
we're speeding up that cellularturnover in the skin.
(13:54):
So it's coming up and that'sthe frustrating part, because
it's almost like oh, my skin'slooking worse, but it's coming
to the surface faster so we canheal it and treat it yeah, so
the next cycle will be clear andthat's the biggest mistake I
see.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Tell me, if you see this, where people will.
They'll get into the routineand be really committed for a
couple weeks and then they'repurging.
You know the purging ishappening, or the surfacing, as
you mentioned, is coming andtheir acne might get a little
bit worse because you're turningover skin cells quicker so
you're making those pimples thatwould have come up anyway.
All come up kind of quickly andthen they want to switch skin
(14:32):
care, and confused angry skin isa result of too many products.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yes, so a lot of clients will try those new
products and feel that they're,you know, like, oh, it's not
working, it's getting worse.
But it's a good rule of thumbthat you've got to at least do a
month, try out your products,let it absorb into your skin and
do its job first before youcompletely give up on it,
(14:58):
because sometimes if you'reusing too high of an ingredient
or something that doesn't agreewith your skin, it'll break out
everywhere in a way.
So you kind of get that likealmost allergy and reactive um
Resolve if you're using too muchtoo fast.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And then you get to the point where everything's
irritating you right?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, if you're trying too many things all at
once and your skin's just goingto freak out.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Okay, so morning cleanse, night double cleanse.
Morning, vitamin C, then atargeted serum, then a
moisturizer sunscreen, yes.
Night what are we doing afterour double cleanse at night?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, so at nighttime we want to heal the skin.
It's always morning time, likewe said with the vitamin C and
sunscreen, we want to protect it.
Nighttime is personally myfavorite time is when we're
getting to heal it and protectit.
So nighttime I always like togo in with a little bit more
thicker ingredients.
So a little bit thickermoisturizer, a oil-based, to
(16:06):
really lock in that hydration.
You can pretty much do the sameserums and toner that you would
do in the morning time, but Iwould add more hydration into it
, kind of really lock it all inin there yeah, well, it's
interesting because the sciencesupports this too.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So it we have our circadian clock and in the
morning we want to supportprotection and then at night,
help with the cellular renewaland regeneration and we actually
have more trans epidermal waterloss, where we're losing more
hydration at night.
So that's exactly when you wantto like, lock it in.
It's like the women in the1950s with all the cold cream
(16:37):
all over their face, like that'swhat we're that what we?
They had it right back then,except we have better products
now that are more elegantlyformulated.
Okay, so that's at home andeveryone, no matter how often
they come to see you, you wantthem to be doing something at
home to support their treatmentwith you.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yes, 100%, because, like I said, the 80-20 rule,
that's an always good rule ofthumb.
I would rather my clients be ona great home care regimen than
come and see me in office.
If that's in their budget, Iwould love for them to have the
home care set up because, likewe said, if you're going to go
to the dentist, get your teethcleaned and then not brush it at
(17:13):
home, what's going to happenSounds crazy.
Yeah, exactly Right.
So home care is going to besuper huge.
If you want to take extra stepsand do like a face mask or more
exfoliation, or add in that LEDlight, different modalities,
you can definitely do that andthat's just going to enhance
(17:35):
your results and further enhanceyour progress into your skin.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Okay, so it probably will expedite it.
So when somebody's doing atargeted treatment, you'll have
them come in a little bit moreoften, and then maintenance is a
little bit different.
Expand on that.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, so it's depending on how quick clients
want to get their skincare fixedand what their goals are.
You know, I have a lot ofclients that come in that are
either getting married or have abig event coming in, so they
want to target their skincarefaster.
So we would go in like everytwo weeks rather than once a
month to really get that fastpaced results, and then after
(18:10):
we'll go into the maintenancerealm and maybe that's once a
month or, you know, every othermonth, doing a facial and then
microneedling or something likethat to enhance it for their
goals.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Let's talk about the chemical peels a little bit more
and then we'll dive into thefacial and the microneedling,
like what procedures people cando before an event, versus to
kind of stimulate collagen ortreat acne.
So when you're doing chemicalpeels which I think chemical
peels don't get the attentionthey deserve, because they are
really really effective athelping people with brown spots,
(18:47):
with fine lines and wrinkles,with acne.
But you know we have lasers outnowadays that are like a more
sexy kind of like therapy, yeah,but yet chemical peels are more
and I find them almost to be aseffective, except for broken
blood vessels.
I find them as effective whenthey're done correctly by
someone who knows what they'redoing.
(19:08):
So if someone comes in and theywant a chemical peel or a
series of chemical peels, how doyou decide which chemical?
I hate the word chemical.
I always think we need to havea better word for these acids
than chemical.
But like what?
How do you decide which acid touse, whether it's mandelic or
salicylic or glycolic?
How do you decide which acid touse for their chemical peel,
(19:29):
based on their targetedtreatment?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
yeah, so there's a variety of different peels that
we can use, which is greatbecause we have options, because
, um, it can be for pigmentation.
If they want to target thatmore, I guess, going down to
what they want to target moreand particularly, you would go
in with.
I like to my approach.
(19:53):
I like to go a little bit onthe lighter side to get started
and then go into the heavierpeels, because you don't know
how the skin is going to reactto their first time chemical
peel.
So you want to go a little biton the lighter side.
That could be a lower percentof mandelic or lactic acid and
then you can bump it up and, youknow, use some with TCA or any
other higher ingredient acidthat you can have onto the skin.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You keep mentioning mandelic acid.
It seems to be a favorite.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh it is, I skin.
You keep mentioning mandelicacid.
It seems to be a favorite.
Oh it is, I know.
I always mention mandelicbecause that's just a very
popular one.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's from almonds.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yes, it's an almond-derived ingredient which
is great for giving oxygen tothe pores.
It really goes down deep intothere, so that's a good one.
Salicylic, I would say that'sgoing to be your acne fighter,
for the non-inflamed acne, sothose little bumps that you can
get now and then.
So if I have a client coming inand you know they struggle a
(20:48):
little bit with acne, but nottoo much, they just get kind of
that texture.
I like to do some salicylicbecause that's going to be a
little bit on the lighter sidebut also give you that good
results as well.
But when it comes to likepigmentation, adding in some
like tca, um chemical, that'susually one of my favorites for
pigment and rejuvenating foranti-aging I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay, I love that so much and I like that you
mentioned starting out low, likestart low, go, because we live
in a blended world where, likeI'm part Spanish, I'm part Irish
, so I have red, sensitive skinand hyperpigmentation.
And for anyone listening, what Ioften see and I don't know if
you see this too is that peoplewill come in and they wait maybe
(21:33):
a little bit too long, and thenthey want quick results and
they go go really hard.
But if sort of you want to lookat how you heal with a scratch,
so when we get a scratch or aburn or a pimple, does it heal
with a pink scar or does it healwith a brown scar?
And if you go too aggressivewith chemical peels or laser or
(21:54):
microneedling or really anythingin the office, you might get
post-inflammatory erythema orpost-inflammatory
hyperpigmentation, which isbasically that type of scarring
that you end up getting afterinflammation.
So by starting slow and low,you're going to give the skin a
chance to like accommodate,basically, and then you can go a
(22:15):
little bit deeper once ithardens, as opposed to going too
much and then gettinghyperpigmentation that's going
to last six to eight months.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Definitely, and that also goes back to home care.
I wouldn't ever do anaggressive peel on someone if
they're not doing the home care,because that's going to be your
most important part.
So if you're doing thisaggressive peel and you're
coming home and just slabbinganything on your face, you're
not going to get those resultsand the peel is probably not
going to do as good of a job asit could have been if you're
(22:43):
using the right ingredients andgiving that skin a prep and, um,
you know heal it afterwards.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So how do you like to prep people before a chem peel?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, so definitely for like their first time
appointment.
I like to go in with a glycolictoner.
That kind of preps the skin andyou can see if they get
reactive.
So oftentimes if the skin isready for a peel and you put
that toner on top, it'll be fine.
You won't get any itchiness ortingliness, maybe like a one out
(23:16):
of five, but if you're feelinglike that three, that can mean
the skin's compromised, thebarrier is a little irritated.
So then I'd be more weary aboutdoing a deeper chemical peel if
their skin isn't technicallyready for it that's a really
good test.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I've never heard that before.
I like that a lot.
Yeah, how about?
How do you feel about retinolbefore peels?
Because I I hear you knowpeople like to be dogmatic on
either way.
You know like, no, don't do itbecause it will make the peel go
deeper, and I was alwaystrained to do retinoids before
because it removes the dead skincells and it makes the chemical
peel more even in penetration,and I could see both sides of
(23:55):
the argument, you know.
So like what are your thoughtson that?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You know I'm not opposed to it as well.
I think it could be a reallygood prep, as you say, for the
skin.
I only just like to talk lines,maybe one to two days to give
your skin a little bit of abreak so it doesn't get as
irritated and the chemicals kindof don't mix together from like
the leftover retinol on theskin.
So, like I said, I'm notopposed to it as well.
(24:19):
I would say, just two daysbefore, off a retinol and then
you're good to go that's okay,and then after.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So I have a feeling that after this podcast episode,
people are going to be like Iwant a chemical peel right.
so just to give them an idea ofwhat to expect, with sort of a
lunchtime peel or you know, apeel that's a freshening peel,
what I always okay, I tellpeople.
Tell me if I'm wrong here,because this is how my skin
reacts and how I've seenpatients over the years Like it
(24:46):
almost feels like hey, gabby,there's food on your face, like
there's that light flaking, butyou're not exfoliating in sheets
with, like a light chemicalpeel.
So, what do you usually tellpeople like as far as the pre,
the pre, and then what to expectthat night, what not to do, and
then when can they return totheir normal skincare routine
afterwards?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah.
So I would say the prep.
I would give them advice onkeeping the skin hydrated and
healthy before you come in, soyou don't want to come in with
your skin super dry or irritatedfrom different products,
especially not sunburned orirritated in that realm.
Afterwards I always just prepthem.
You can get some drynessbecause we are stimulating the
(25:28):
cell turnover of the skin, soyou can experience some of that
dryness and flakiness.
But it's all about how youapply your products on
afterwards.
So keeping up the moisturizerand sunscreen because that's
going to be number one, becauseour skin can get sensitized
after a peel, so you want toprotect it with the sunscreen
barrier so it's not gettingirritated and you're losing all
(25:53):
that progress you made with thepeel Right.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
So we're basically trying to exfoliate off the top
layer of the skin at a morerapid rate than it would
exfoliate itself, and that sendssignals down to the stem cells
at the base of the epidermis tokind of like hey, let's rev up
and make fresh skin cells andthat's how we get like more cell
renewal.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, definitely, and that's definitely what people
are looking for when they'recoming to peels is they want
that glow.
You know they want to feeltheir skin to be glowy and soft
and supple.
So that's peels are in thatrealm, are going to be very good
for that.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Do you find that using a red light therapy or LED
at home helps enhance healing?
Have you played with that?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, so I personally love to do it in my routine.
I think consistency is key whenit comes to those products.
It's not going to be a one-timefix-all, which some people like
to think that you know whenthey're putting it on Like
you're going to get thoseamazing benefits, but the
consistency in the long term isreally going to give you that
results-driven with the LEDdevices.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I like them too .
I have a red light panel and Ido it in the morning.
But there's a sweet spot where,if you do just enough, you can
stimulate the mitochondria inthe fibroblasts to stimulate
more collagen, and if you do toomuch you actually cause too
many reactive oxygen specieswhere it kind of can damage your
skin.
I could definitely say thatRight and same with, I think,
(27:19):
muscles and stuff too.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
But your husband would know that.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
He knows all about that.
Okay, so besides chemical peelslike what other?
What other procedures arereally common in your practice
that you think give good results?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah.
So another one that I love andI swear by is microneedling.
I think that is amazing forstimulating the collagen
reproduction of the skin.
Especially my clients postpeels when it comes to acne
because they'll get thatscarring.
So once they're clear and theydon't have any more active acne,
(27:52):
they're sometimes left overwith pigmentation of the redness
and sometimes it was likedeeper scars of the redness and
sometimes it was like deeperscars and sometimes they would
look at their skin and be like,oh, acne's gone, but it still
doesn't look how I want it tolook.
It still has that redness to it.
So that's when we would go onwith a microneedling and I swear
(28:14):
, like my clients swear by it.
It just looks so much betterafter they're done with their
acne peels is to go on with themicroneedling.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So you like the chemical peels more for treating
active acne and then themicroneedling to help with any
of the scarring?
Yes, I agree.
Yes, yeah, I agree.
Okay, can you explain whatmicroneedling is and what people
can expect?
And do you numb beforehand?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah.
So I love that you brought upnumbing, because I actually have
a few clients that actually gowithout numbing.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I don't know if I could.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, and you know I was very surprised with that at
first and you know, some of themwere just like let's try it.
And I have clients that fallasleep during microneedling,
that's you.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That's because of you .
Speaker 2 (28:52):
They love it.
It's just like the vibration ofit and the relaxation of it.
They don't mind it at all.
But, um, yeah, no.
So with microneedling I alwayslike to say we're creating those
controlled wounds into the skin.
We're going down with theneedles in different depths, um
to go into the cells and tostimulate that collagen
(29:14):
reproduction and especially ifwe have pigment or sc, it's
going to break down those cellslike clusters almost, and to
give that glow and thathydration back to the skin.
Yeah, and so when we like to doit, I always like to do a
dermaplane before, and thatvaries from different
(29:34):
estheticians, but I always liketo prep the skin with a
dermaplane.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
What's that Explain the dermaplane?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah.
So dermaplane, honestly, oh, Ialways say microneal is my
favorite, but dermaplane isprobably my favorite as well.
So you're taking thatmedical-grade scalpel to remove
any dead skin, that peach, fuzz,that vellus hair, to really
give a good slate to the skin.
So that's like your prep.
So we'll go in with that, do aquick dermaplane, get all that
dead skin, buildup of hair, allof that off first.
(30:03):
Then we'll put on the numbingso it can really absorb a lot
better.
So a lot of my clients say thatwhen we dermaplane first and
then numb, they feel a lot morenumb, so we don't have that
layer on as well.
And then, yeah, we'll go inwith the needling and it will
last about an hour.
And then I always like tofinish it with some led light,
(30:26):
either red light or blue light,to help speed up that healing
process that's great.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, I feel like red light is better for healing and
blue light's great for acne.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yes, yeah, especially if I'm going with my acne peels
, then I will end it with bluelight because that's going to
help kill the bacteria a littlebit more.
And then, for my clientsworking on anti-aging or pigment
, I like to throw in with thered.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's amazing.
I have not heard anyone dodermaplaning before
microneedling and I love thattip.
I had a guest on who was amakeup artist and she talked
about how doing dermaplaningmakes the makeup stay on better,
so that makes really good sense.
I'm going to have to schedulewith you to do some dermaplaning
.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I love dermaplaning.
I was even before coming intoday.
I was like, oh, I should havedermaplaning to prep my skin for
my makeup because, like yousaid, that's such a great prep
for the skin is to do adermaplaning Right, just going
to get a smooth surface.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Okay, so do you?
Hmm, okay, so with chemicalpeels, how often do you
recommend?
Just say I'm 40 years old andI'm noticing some fine lines and
wrinkles around my eyes and I'mnot really happy with my
texture.
I have a little bit of.
I live in Arizona, so I have alittle bit of pigment on my skin
, but nothing really severe.
Yet I don't have acne.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
How would you come up with a plan?
Yeah, oh, that's so fun becauseI love to create plans, because
there's so many different waysthat you can incorporate
different treatments into it.
I would say with your goals howfast you want to get there.
That's going to be number oneBecause if you're okay with it
taking its time, taking aprogress, I like to do once a
month.
But for those clients out, youknow they're like I'm ready to
(32:06):
really get a kickstart to myroutine.
I do every two weeks Coming.
In that way we get to see theskin faster, to see how the
peels incorporate to their skinand how they react to it yeah,
okay, but we also have to workwith the skin physiology.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So I agree, like coming in more than once every
two weeks, you're workingagainst the skin physiology
because you're not giving it achance to actually heal and
produce collagen.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yes, yeah, you want to see how it reacts.
Because that's why I do starton the lighter side, because
every skin is different, everyreaction is different.
You know, I could do the samepeel on 20 different people and
they're all going to get adifferent result and look
different.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
You know it's going to be the same ingredients but
everybody's skin is going to bedifferent and take to it at a
different pace I think thatthat's such a key point, because
we see all these things onlineand we think like, oh, they did
this and they got that result.
That has to be me or mysister's a hair hairstylist and
she has people come in and say Iwant this and she's like, but
(33:08):
your hair won't do that right,like our skin isn't going to
respond to the same treatment inthe same way either.
And, gosh, it seems likethere's so many great options
out there and it really soundslike you need to go to someone
who knows skin, is going to workwith you and be patient and
walk that journey over time.
And what other?
So what other treatments beforewe close out do you like in the
(33:30):
office?
Do you do microdermabrasion,anything like that?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
so I don't do microdermabrasion um that one.
You know, eventually I'm goingto bring in some hydrafacial to
do that.
But um microderm, uh, it wasnever very popular into my
practice, but we like to dodifferent peels and then I also
like to do um lashes, uh tintingand brow tinting.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
As you know, I like to do lash tinting um so, for
those of you listening, I'msuper lazy and I have eyeliner
tattoo and I have Gabby do myeyelash tinting and I was
telling another friend of minethat you can get your eyelashes
tinted and your eyebrows tinted.
She's like what?
I had no idea.
So thank you for reminding me.
(34:16):
So let's talk about that andhow it can be, how long it lasts
, what the process is and how itjust it's like accentuating
your asset.
It's not changing who you are.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah.
So lash and brow tinting is areally great add-on service.
It just gives you that littlepop.
When it comes to the lashes andbrows, it can be like three to
four weeks to get a good color.
I actually used to domicroblading a long time ago,
kind of dabbled in everything,and when I did that I just
noticed people like the morenatural side of brows.
(34:51):
So adding in that tinting givesit that softer look to fade
over time.
Especially with lashes as well,you can give that really nice
pop of black color to look likeyou're wearing mascara.
So very low maintenance effectonto that.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Right, you can swim and everything and your
eyelashes look like they havemascara and I love the color you
picked because it does.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
it does pop, yes yeah , you really want to look at the
um, the color of either thehair on on your head or the brow
color as well.
You know you want to complementthe features that people
already have and then enhancethat right, and that's the whole
thing.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
It's like we don't want to become anyone else.
We just want to enhance who weare naturally.
Um, I love having you on.
Thank you for coming today.
Thank you so much, I had a goodtime.
If you have like threetakeaways, what are three
takeaways that you can give thelisteners and, uh, just everyone
who wants to be their best selfand show up authentically, like
(35:51):
from your experience and yourworld that people could start
incorporating easily every day.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, I mean always be you, always be confident in
who you are, Do what's right foryourself, because there's only
one of you.
You know there's going to bemillions of other people, but
enjoy what you do in your life.
And I would say, enjoy thelittle things in life.
So you know, even if you dohave acne or if you have that
(36:19):
insecurity of anything, just bewho you are and enjoy what you
have in life.
And you know there's somebodyfor everybody.
So if you want to target skincare, do that.
If you want to do otherenhancements, do whatever makes
you feel better.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Right, you know, I feel like I feel so lucky, and
you probably see this too,because I've seen very famous
people naked, right, when yousee people without their clothes
on, like we're really strippedof a lot, and I see the
vulnerable side of people,whether working at the US
Capitol or working in SouthernCalifornia, right, and at the
end of the day, everybody hassomething that they're insecure
(36:57):
about and no one is perfect.
And it was cool because I wasin the car with my kids telling
them this maybe 10 years ago,when they were 8, 7, and 9 or
something, and I said you guys,you just have to realize no one
is perfect.
Everyone has something thatthey're insecure about.
And my son, my wise little soulin the backseat, he goes what
if everyone's perfect?
(37:17):
It's like I like that better.
Everyone is perfect just howthey are.
So, just how you said, show upas you are.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Show up as you are, and that's you know.
Your authentic self is going tobe your best self, Exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
But in the meantime you have an esthetician who's
here to help you Exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I'm like well, if you have a little insecurity, we
can target that and you knowit'll make it work.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Thank you, Gabby.
How do people find you?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, so a few different ways.
My Instagram handle is alwaysthe most popular, so it would be
skindeepbeauty underscore AZ,or skindeepbeauty underscore AZ,
or on my website as well, samename.
And yeah, I'm always open toconsultations and just chatting.
This is my passion, this iswhat I love to do, so any
questions I'm always up for.
Some people are like oh, Idon't want to bother you, I
(38:06):
don't want to ask too manyquestions, but I'm like lay it
all out.
You know, give me a whole listof questions.
I can just talk to you aboutskincare and I'll be happy to do
it.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Thank you bye, gabby, thank you.
Thank you for joining us onlisten to your skin by moon and
skin.
It's an honor to be part ofyour skincare journey and if you
love this episode, make sure tosubscribe.
Leave us a glowing review andshare it with someone who's
passionate about their skincarejourney, and please connect with
us on social to ask yourquestions, which will drive
(38:34):
future educational episodes.
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